Act One Podcast
Act One Podcast
Screenwriter Andrea Nasfell and Producer Brady Nasfell
Act One Podcast - Episode 43 - Interview with Screenwriter Andrea Nasfell and Producer Brady Nasfell of the new film, MR. MANHATTAN.
Brady Nasfell has produced feature films and television for Netflix, Sony, Lionsgate, Fox Sports, NBC, VH1, Discovery Networks and independent distributors. Recent films include MR. MANHATTAN (starring Alexa and Carlos PenaVega), FOURTH OF JULY (starring Joe List) and STRONG FATHERS, STRONG DAUGHTERS (starring Bart Johnson and Robyn Lively). Brady produced the Grammy Award-winning comedy special SINCERELY LOUIS C.K., as well as KEVIN JAMES: IRREGARDLESS (Spring 2024). Other specials include JOE ROGAN: STRANGE TIMES, TOM SEGURA: BALL HOG, and CHRIS D’ELIA: NO PAIN. His documentary work includes THE LAST DISPATCH, OVERCOMER WITH JUSTIN WREN, UFC ROAD TO THE OCTAGON, UFC ULTIMATE INSIDER, and the UFC EMBEDDED web series, which won the Best MMA Programming award in 2016.
Andrea Nasfell is a feature writer with over a dozen produced credits, including the television Christmas movies EVERY OTHER HOLIDAY (Lifetime) and HOLIDAY FOR HEROES (Hallmark Movies & Mysteries). She’s also the writer of theatrical comedies THE RESURRECTION OF GAVIN STONE (Blumhouse) and MOMS' NIGHT OUT (Sony Affirm), which won a Dove award for Inspirational Film of the Year. Andrea is a member of the WGA and teaches screenwriting at USC and Asbury University. She earned an MFA in Creative Writing from Spalding University.
The Act One Podcast provides insight and inspiration on the business and craft of Hollywood from a Christian perspective.
C.S. Lewis had a, I think it was a commencement speech. He talks about doing the right thing with the people that you authentically connect with, and you end up in the place that you're supposed to be when you do that. If you're trying to get inside somebody else's circle and fighting and clawing for that, you're always unhappy. But I think faithfully living our faith and um according to the values we have and being willing to put in the work leads you to a place where there's more peace, even if everything isn't like you expected. Because I think one of the things we've always said is whatever we're planning, it's probably not going to be the thing that happens. It almost always is something else.
James Duke:This is the Act One Podcast. I'm your host, James Duke. Thanks for listening. Please don't forget to subscribe to the podcast and leave us a good review. My guests today are producer Brady Nasfell and his wife, screenwriter Andrea Nasfel. Brady has produced feature films and television for Netflix, Tony, Lionsgate, Fox Sports, NBC, DH1, and Discovery Networks. Recent films include Mr. Manhattan, which is now streaming on Great American Pure Flix, Fourth of July, directed by comedian Louis DeKay, and Strong Father, Strong Daughters. Brady produced the Grammy Award-winning comedy special Sincerely Louis DeKay, as well as comedy specials with Kevin James, Joe Rogan, and Tom Segura. Andrea Nasville is a feature writer with over a dozen produced credits, including the television Christmas movies Every Other Holiday and Holiday for Heroes. She also is the writer of theatrical comedies such as The Resurrection of Gavin Stone and Mom's Night Out, which won a double award for Inspirational Film of the Year. Andrea is a member of the WGA and teaches screenwriting at both USC and Asbury University. She is also an alumni of the very first Act One class. Brady and Andrea are an amazing couple, and we had a wonderful conversation that I know you will enjoy. Andrea and Brady Nasfell, welcome to the Act One podcast. It's such a joy to have both of you on today.
SPEAKER_02:Thank you.
James Duke:Yeah, we're glad to be here with you. Uh longtime friends. Uh, I've known you guys for years. It's so exciting to have you guys both on here. I was just we were just talking about how I got really excited when I found out that you guys had made a film together. Brady, a film that Andrea wrote that Brady produced. And so, but uh before we get to that film, I there's a lot of things I want to spend some time talking to you guys about, and um uh just to let people be aware. So and Brady, I think I mentioned this to you a while back. I when you guys first came to town, we were we were going to the same church, and I think we did a we we created something together. It was like a spoof on Survivor. This is how old we go.
SPEAKER_03:I saw that not that long ago when we were looking back through a bunch of old videos.
James Duke:It was we shot it in Griffith Park. Yes, in Griffith Park. We shot a spoof that was back when Survivor was brand new, so that tells people a lot of things. Um and uh and I remember going to you guys' offices when you guys started your offices in Burbank, and uh we'd had meetings there about stuff. I can't remember who I was who or why I was because I wasn't always meeting with you guys.
SPEAKER_00:Shane was there, and I don't I can't remember, but but anyway, point we were all young and ambitious and uh you know collaborating anywhere we could. It was a lot of fun during those years.
James Duke:Yes, we we we we ran and uh we were young and and running around doing all kinds of fun stuff. So anyway, um I was just thinking about that. So actually it would be fun to start there. Tell people a little bit about um here. I've got a husband and wife team here who uh made a film together. I'd love to, and this is actually the second or third film you guys have actually collaborated together on.
SPEAKER_00:I believe it's our second, as far as uh when it comes to Andrea having written it and me producing it.
James Duke:Okay. So um when I first met you guys, you guys had made a film together, right? And um, and that's what kind of brought you out to LA. So why don't we start there? What how did both of you guys kind of get into the business and and then what brought you to Los Angeles?
SPEAKER_00:Well, we met in in Kentucky at Asbury University. Um, and from that point we're thinking about moving to LA, but we ended up staying in Kentucky for a little while. Andrea wrote a a script that I produced and directed there before we left. It was kind of like, you know, we we were trying to be professional as possible, but I think you look back and you're like, oh, that was a kind of a glorified thesis project. You know what I mean? You know, and it it taught us a lot of really great things. Um, and I I think one of the key things was the way you interact with people on set, the way you do business. Um, all those interactions really are the the biggest impact we're going to have on people. When I think prior to that, we thought we were going to tell a great story and it was going to impact the world. And that can be totally true. We hope it's true, but the way you conduct yourself day to day is so critical. And um, so that's where we started.
James Duke:And had you and had you made so this is interesting though, like so you made a feature film. Was it was that the had you made a lot of short films uh prior to that? Or uh because there's a lot of people listening to this going, wait, they just made a feature film?
SPEAKER_03:Like we had done student projects in college, but we you know, I I don't know, we were just like young and ambitious enough to think, well, we'll just do it, you know. What how hard could it be? Right. Um we shot on 16 millimeter, so we actually shot it on film. Oh wow we couldn't afford to develop the film on a regular basis. So aren't we instead of dailies, we joked that they were monthlies.
SPEAKER_00:What that what that really means is we didn't see anything we shot until after the movie was done. And we were literally waking up every morning thinking having nightmares really that we forgot some scene or something. Wow.
James Duke:So for people who don't know who are listening to this, because film is so rare these days, it is it's very one of the reasons why film has fallen out of favor is because it's so expensive to shoot and process, and so uh yeah, I can imagine if you're doing a low budget indie, uh it was in Kentucky, right? And so it's like, where are you even doing your telesinny? You're sending it off, right? Sending it to LA. Yeah, oh, you're sending it here and then had to be sent back. Oh, baby. Oh, yeah, that was expensive. So, um, so you guys had never done one before, and then you did you just kind of pull the money together with family and friends, or is that how you financed everything?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, we did the whole thing with a business plan, you know. We we did everything according to the book, you know. I I just studied a lot and you know, stumbled through it and learned a lot of lessons. So it was it was valuable in that sense, and then we realized you know, the the kind of resources and the experience, the expertise that you need to make a really good movie. You know, it's it's one thing to just get a movie made. A lot of people can uh technically do that. Yep. Um, but the skill sets, the experience, all that stuff that you need, the kind of really the kind of people you need to surround yourself with to do a really good movie, yeah, that's a different thing. And um, you you really can't usually do that without some resources more than we had, you know. Um so and then we then we moved to LA not too long after that, and you're in a context where everybody you meet is writing a screenplay or making something or have they have all this amazing experience. And I think that was uh good for us to be here and get you know into a place where iron was sharpening iron in a way that we had never experienced before. You know, if you if you live in another part of the country or the world where they're you're the only filmmaker or there are only a few of you, you're you're just not getting the benefit of an environment like this where it's like, wow, you're really gonna learn a lot from people.
SPEAKER_03:And you remember um when we first came out, and um, one of the other things we have in common with you is the Los Angeles Film Study Center.
James Duke:That's right.
SPEAKER_03:It's that creative accountability group.
James Duke:That's right, yes.
SPEAKER_03:I don't know, I don't see people doing that anymore. I don't know where that idea came from, but that concept was we were all young alumni of universities. We'd all moved to picked up and moved to LA. We all had dreams, and it was all different. Like we weren't all writers, some people were directors, some shoppers, whatever they wanted to do. And we would get together, I don't remember how often, but you just kind of had to report in like what you need to advance your skills and your dreams this week. And then that whole group came together and made a short film together. Um, but that was such a I wish, I mean, I I should start advising my college students to do that more often now when they get out because you know writers' groups are easy. I I'm always teaching writers, so I, you know, it's easy for me to say you should get in the writers' group, but it's not just for writers. I mean, that group was so uh foundational. We made a lot of friends out of that group. We made a silly film festival for the alumni program. We did a lot of creative things together as just uh being right out of um school. And it it I think it helped all of us, you know, the ironing sharpening iron things basically.
James Duke:I I completely I completely agree with you. The one of the most important skills any filmmaker can learn is how to collaborate, how to how to partner with other creatives and uh let the best idea win. Just learn how to work together. And and when you're a young person, it's just like take every opportunity, especially take every opportunity you can to work with other people. And so, you know, when you so when you guys were starting out, uh say so for you, Andrea, when you were starting out, um uh did you have to create opportunities uh to write? Like were you were you going up to people saying, hey, I like how how were you um developing your talent as a writer? Were you just coming up with ideas? I'm just gonna sit down, I'm gonna start writing uh what used to be popular back in the day was spec scripts. Um were you doing a lot of that? Were you writing a lot of your own ideas? Um and even now to this day, what do you encourage young writers to do when they're just starting out? No one's no one's hiring you. So what am I writing? You know?
SPEAKER_03:Right. So well, uh so what brought us out here in '99, I was in the very first class of act one. Um, and then we moved the very first.
James Duke:So when I when I first introduced Andrea to group, I said she's the original OG, her and that group. Yep.
SPEAKER_03:We were the guinea pig class is what we call ourselves. They were just testing it all out on us, but it was amazing. And I made so many good friends in that group. And um, a lot of, you know, a number of them were here and some of them came here. And so um a lot of that was just encouraging each other. What are you writing? And um, yes, I wrote a lot of spec scripts.
SPEAKER_00:Can I interject something there? Because there are people from that original class who all worked on, they're all wrote on a film we did a few years ago called uh Strong Fathers, Strong Daughters. Yes, and it it turned out that one of the people in that original class, Amy Snow, wrote an original script. And as happens in this town, people the other writers come in, and the the next writer that was contacted was Claire Sarah. And so Claire's like, I put along the way, you know, and and um so Amy's like, Great, yeah, I know you'll you'll do great things with it. So then Claire did some things, and then Andrea was contacted later. She ended up writing on it, and then trained one people, and I have this picture of them, all of them on the set. The three writers, three of the writers. There's or it wasn't one more, the director, but um, I have a shot with them on set, and it was a beautiful thing if you trace it all back to that original act one class.
James Duke:That's really cool.
SPEAKER_03:Typically, Amy was in 01, but we still we'll still click we'll still take her. She was still early enough to to be it.
James Duke:That's funny though. That's funny though, because that is how um the business works. Uh, fortunately and unfortunately, uh, when people get rewritten and they get uh so the fact that you guys would know each other and you could actually uh talk to each other is kind of cool.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah. So so we did like writing spec scripts. I still you asked what is my advice, and I say you still have to write spec scripts because spec scripts, even though they don't get bought as much as they used to, they are still your sample so that you can get hired. And so um you pretty much have to write them. Um and I and I think that it's obviously you're working out your own skills. I feel like you have to write a few scripts before you write a really good script. I would never show anybody the first screenplays that I wrote.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:But after you know, writing a few and taking classes and all of that, you start to refine your skills and then um it was actually my first job that I got. I guess we can transition into that. The first paid gig that I got was because Kitty Buholz, also from the class of '99.
James Duke:Yep.
SPEAKER_03:Um, you know what, Amy was up, I think.
James Duke:Anyway, I bought a used car from Kitty.
SPEAKER_03:Did it run?
James Duke:It ran right into the ground.
SPEAKER_03:No, I think we uh we let someone borrow one of our cars too, someone else from Act One. Melissa De Ravian drove our car for a while. Um, so we, I guess that was part of the Act One legacy. But um, Kitty knew these producers, I don't know how she had met them, but they were looking for someone to write a romantic comedy idea that they had. And and she knew I had written one during our Act One class. And she said, Oh, you should read Andrea's sample. And so there was my spec that I had written, and that and she, my fellow writer classmate, uh passed it off. I think that was one of the things that surprised me too. I was worried that it was gonna be very competitive to come out and take classes with all these writers, and everyone was buying for opportunities, but it was that kind of the opposite where everyone was like, I know someone who writes that. I know, I know who you need. And um, we all got each other a lot of work in those early days. It was great.
James Duke:Yeah, that's one of the biggest differences I've seen um working in this town is that people are people genuinely want to help each other if if uh there's not a there's not a um uh overly, overly competitive, you know, it's like sports necessarily. You know, there are a lot of people are lifting each other up, particularly in the act one community, I would say as well. Um, so that that script, since we're here already, let's talk about it. So so here you are, you came out here, um, you took the act one program, and then um you segued from that original act one program into a at the time we were offering like an act two type program. And and you were at that that particular project, you were developing this script, which is now called Mr. Manhattan, which is premiering on Pure Flix. And you know, I don't know when people are gonna listen to this, but it's now either now airing or soon to be airing on Pure Flix, right? Like that was the script you were developing in Act Two?
SPEAKER_03:So so the producers were actually David White, who went on to found Pure Flix. Oh yeah, but it didn't exist at the time. Right, right, right. And um, Jeff Peterson, and they had come up with an like a concept for an idea. Jeff had something that he wanted to make, and so they were looking for a writer to write their idea. And um, and so that was the first experience that I had was coming in and pitching a take, like this is what you want to do, here's how I would do it. And um, and they hired me for for very little. I mean, they were just two guys putting their money together and um, you know, trying to make it happen, trying to make an independent film kind of thing. And um, and I was going through the act two program where I needed to be working on a script. And so uh I was very excited to just have a project and then I had kind of another set of eyes on it because I was going through that program where they could give me feedback um before I turned my draft in.
James Duke:Speaking of let's but I don't want to skip past this for our audience. Um, you you had to pitch your take on a project in order to get hired. So can you explain that to our to our audience? So these producers, so what is a kind of a standard practice? It doesn't always happen, but it's it's a pretty normal thing, where a non-writing producer of some kind uh will have some sort of IP or they'll have an idea or something, and they will um how do they interact with, say, a writer like you? Like how does that become a writer for higher job?
SPEAKER_03:So, yeah, so they will have maybe they've optioned a book, maybe they own the rights to Legos or whatever it is that they want to make make a movie about. Or in this case, it was a concept that they liked. Uh a lot of times, um, I've written a lot of Christmas movies for television, and so they'll just say, pitch us some Christmas movie ideas. And so they they already have a mandate of what they're trying to do, but they need someone to write it. And so, for example, with a book or with a toy or something like that, they'll have multiple writers read the book or research the topic or whatever, and then they will come in and say, This is how I would tell the story, or this is how I would adapt the book into a movie. This is what you need, this is what you don't need. I focus on these characters. You kind of give that um a pitch of your version of the script. And I think the way that you get those projects usually, um, in my experience, is that you you you have a great idea, a great way into the material, but also you have personal connection that you pitch to them. I've experienced this, I'm passionate about this. My family has experienced this, you know, conflict or whatever it is that you're um that is the core of the story. You're pitching, um, yes, you have a good idea and you're good at storytelling, the, you know, the building blocks of the story, but also you have um a passion, your personal voice and experience is a match for this project, and it's going to be the right one to tell the story. You're kind of pitching both of those things. I have a great idea, and here's why I'm the best person to tell your story.
James Duke:And you're and are and are you ever pitching um an A, a B, or a C? Like, are you saying, oh, this way, this, you know, kind of like when you're bidding for a job, high bid, medium bid, low bid, or are you coming in just with the one really strong opinion for this is this is the story I would tell. This is the angle I would take on that story.
SPEAKER_03:Usually you want to come in with one really strong opinion. Um and and you might have a variation on a couple of beats in the story or something, but you want to come in really passionate about one idea and not coming a wishy-washy about well, it could be this or it could be that. They've probably already thought that themselves. So you, you know, you want to come in with you're really strong, it has to be this way, you know. You're the you're the expert, you're the you know, you're the writing expert. And so you want to, you know, use that expertise and come in with one strong idea.
James Duke:So was this called Mr. Manhattan back then?
SPEAKER_03:It was Mr. Manhattan from the beginning, which is unusual, actually. A lot of my movies have files along the way, but this one, this one was what they called it from the beginning.
James Duke:And did it, and did it um uh so when you pitched your take on their idea, how long did it take you to prepare? Uh did it take you? I mean, and I know you're having to think back here, but um and and typically how long does it take? Uh a couple of weeks, a month, uh a couple of days.
SPEAKER_03:Um It takes as long as they give you. Whenever the whenever they want to pitch, that's how long you have. And so so sometimes it's a couple days. Sometimes you might have a month. If it's not, if they're not rushing on it, it might be something you're just noodling in the back of your mind for a while. And then eventually you're like, oh, that's that's you know, that's a great idea for that. Um, this one I don't remember because it and I mean the funny thing is it was it was 20 years ago, it was 2003, and when we first started around it, I think 2004 when I was really fully writing it. And so, you know, here it is 20 years later when it finally gets made and released, which is pretty crazy. And I guess a testament to patience in the business. You never know what project's gonna come back. You we've we thought it was dead for years and years and years, and we tried to resurrect it at one point, didn't come back, and then uh, you know, Brady saw Jeff Peterson at an event and was like, Hey, what about Mr. Manhattan? And Jeff was like, Yeah, what about that? And we uh took another look at it, update. Of course, 20 years ago it was out of date, it needed some changing. Um, so we rewrote it.
SPEAKER_00:Andrea had to, you know, go back in and really update it. And you know, you you talk about a 20-year-old script and you think, well, man, that's old, old material, right? Right. And I mean it is, and I mean I I would say that I think the rewrite took about three months or so, you know, and she it was one of the most difficult rewrites she's ever had to do. I and it it the the story was somewhat intact from the original. There's there are a lot of concepts that are the same, but it it was being adapted to a different distribution channel, right? Because it was not a faith-based movie initially, right? Exactly. And um, you know, you you you don't want to take uh a concept like that and just slap in a few faith elements and call it a day. It was it was something I think Andrea has always been concerned about in any of her writing that she is she she's writing authentic characters, if it's in the faith-based space, then they have a real authentic faith journey. And that's what she had to really figure out to make Mr. Manhattan work in this space.
SPEAKER_03:So And usually when you're when you know you're writing faith-based film from the beginning, then you you engineer the theme that you're exploring into um the whole structure of the movie and the character arc and all that. And so you're starting from the beginning, but when to go back and kind of reverse engineer it can come off really false. And so I and I really didn't want that. And so we worked really hard to um make the journey, the character journey really genuine and and the faith elements feel feel built in, even though they they actually weren't in the beginning.
James Duke:Awesome. So let's talk about the film. Uh what um Brady, give our audience like what's the film about? And um what what what's the you know, what are they, you know, if they're they're looking for this type of film, why would they tune in? Um, you know, it's not a uh it's not a horror film. We're not talking about a we're not talking about an action adventure film. This is a uh a romantic comedy, right?
SPEAKER_00:Or or it's um it's more of a family drama.
James Duke:Family drama. Okay, there it is. Sorry, family drama.
SPEAKER_00:And and and there there's romance as a part of this. This is part of the question when you're making a movie, is like figuring that kind of thing out. And honestly, there have been people in the process at very high levels of the project that have said, Oh, this is a romantic comedy, right? And you're like, Well, no, not really, because we've thought so deeply about it.
SPEAKER_03:Oh yeah, talking about it that way too. That was when I that you repeated it because that's what I said that that you know, kitty said someone's looking for a romantic comedy. And they were, but then once we got into what the story was really about, the core, the core relationship in the story is between a father figure and kids.
SPEAKER_00:So one of the good the roles of a producer is deciding you know how the team should be structured. Andrea is the best one to pitch this right now. So she's here.
James Duke:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
James Duke:Okay. Um Andrea, pitch your pitch your pitch your film to us. So what is it? Honestly, if I were to say it, she would say, No, that's not right. Yeah, no, she'd correct, she'd correct you anyway. Yeah. So what it tell people about Mr. Manhattan.
SPEAKER_03:So, Mr. Manhattan, it's a story um about a guy who is a you know kind of an upwardly mobile lawyer in New York City. He's um on the rise when he gets a call that his brother and sister-in-law have died in an accident, and he is the um guardian, appointed guardian of their two children. And so he has to um bring the two children into his New York life. He lives in a you know, studio loft and he works all the time and he has to kind of adjust to life as a new um uncle/slash father. Uh, but the the romance part of it, the romantic comedy part of it that we started with was that he has um it took a few different forms and different drafts along the way. But the the movie that you'll see, uh he has a fiance that he left behind when he went to New York. They they broke off their engagement. And and she has been the kids in the kids' life all this time that he's been gone, their babysitter, their kind of adopted aunt. And so um, when he needs help, the help comes in the form of her, which brings their past and their relationship back into his life. So that's where we get family drama with some.
James Duke:I like it. I like it. And so so uh Brady, uh so she starts writing this. Yeah, I think you said 2004, Andrea. And um so 20 years later, how does this film what how why why are we watching this film premiere now? Um tell us because you said, you know, basically there was a time when uh once again, for people who are kind of new and they listen to projects come and go, they they they people write stuff that get shoved into into um you know their drawers all the time and never see the light of day. Someone gets excited about it and then they never get made. Um what happened with this film that seemingly you guys thought was was dead to now all of a sudden it's going to be premiering?
SPEAKER_00:Once the film, the script was written, actually, there was plenty of activity trying to pitch it. And I I was involved, you know, because I also knew a few people kind of thing. That's you know, you're trying to reach out to wherever you can get in the door. And you know, I collaborated with um with the other producers um for a bit, then probably 10 years later, it kind of resurfaced. Andrea did a kind of a quick rewrite on it then. Um, we went out to a few more people. At that point, I think I I had done some kind of a shopping agreement with it, and I was just taking it out again and that fizzled. Um, and then once I was making Strong Fathers, Strong Daughters for Pure Flix, this was I think it I think it released in 2022. And in the process of talking with everyone there, that's when I encountered Jeff uh Peterson again at the premiere of one of the other Pure Flex movies. And I just with the moment I saw him, I was like, why are we not talking about this? It's perfect for this, you know? And we just started talking again to Pure Flex development people, and and then of course, David White um is in the mix of that and making decisions. And and you know, he was thrilled to be revisiting an idea from the past, you know, it's like great, this is something we put our time and money into. Let's let's try to make a run at it. And uh once Andrea did the rewrite, it it was pretty instant. People were like, Yeah, let's do this. Um interestingly, though, and I think this is one of the things, it's called Mr. Manhattan. And there was a time where it could have been shot somewhere else. And um, it's one of the moments that I um felt very strongly about where it should be shot and all that, but you can't always make that happen economically. So that's why we ended up going to Kentucky, actually. We um took advantage of their newer, fairly new incentive program. And also Asbury University is there where you know, we not only graduated from there, but they we made our first film there, but they also have an amazing sound stage, a couple of sound stages, a lot of equipment. And I mean, most people are would be listening to this now saying, What? Kentucky? Uh, you know, but if you go visit this place, you'll be like, Wow, where did this come from? It's legit, it's legit. I yeah, I agree. So, you know, the resources there, people in Lexington and you know, generally in places that don't get a lot of film, people are more friendly and helpful. And um, you know, the city of Lexington visit Lux helped us out a lot with, you know, just making connections. And um, it also made it made it possible to shoot for three days in New York City. So we shot in Central Park, we shot exteriors um outside of Brownstones and you know, down by the bull and the financial district and all of those things. And I've had people in the post process say, so what was it like shooting in New York? That must have been great. I said, Yes, we were there for three days, all exteriors, you know. Um, but it was um it was a moment where it was important to try to make all the pieces fit to tell an authentic story. And you know, um, not everybody can tell if you're not shooting in New York. I mean, I guess, but a lot of people can. Yeah. And you know, and when you see certain things, like you're you know they're in Central Park, you can't, you know, that's you know it's there. So um it was a really great thing to be able to pull those pieces together. Um so um after 20 years, there it is.
James Duke:New York, New York skyline, little pieces like that. Yeah, those are those are million dollar shots. Um uh so when I so I really am interested about the the dynamic of a um husband and wife working together on a project. Uh Andrea, you've obviously written lots of other films that have been produced, and you've had, um, I'm sure, as you can share with our audience, both positive and negative experiences with uh with production and producers and you know that Brady, you've made uh multiple projects um at all different levels where you've worked with all different kinds of writers who are not who you're not married to. And you know, uh one of the things that producers often do are things like give notes. Uh um, so uh what from both of you guys' perspective, and by all means, both of you can can speak here. Um, what was it like working together on this project? Um, were there moments when you guys had to decide, okay, we need a third party to come in here? Because you, for instance, you you talked about the significance of the rewrite, right? So um how much of that were you pushing for versus was just coming organically from Andrew or for some from from some of the other producers? And then even, you know, just in the overall process, um, some people aren't fully aware of uh sometimes how little the uh uh writers are typically involved in production. Like sometimes writers don't even get invited to set and stuff like that. So just talk a little bit about uh the dynamic of working together.
SPEAKER_03:I think that it it went pretty smoothly.
James Duke:I mean, I we have Well, you're still married, so it works.
SPEAKER_03:We're still good. I didn't you didn't give me a ton of notes. I mean, you gave me feedback, but it wasn't a situation where um because that we had the network, the network is like the final say. So so Grady could give input, but if then if you know the streamer had other ideas, then they were the one, they were the notes that we had to listen to. And I mean, one of the challenges that was interesting in this project is that Pure Flix and Great American merged right before we right as we were about just to go into production. And so then you had a whole nother studio come in with a whole nother batch of notes after we already had pretty much a green lit script. And so we had to go back and take those things into consideration, which which was interesting. And we had to do it all by May 1st because of the strike, because of the strike. And so you talked about being invited to set. I was invited to set, but I didn't, I couldn't go.
SPEAKER_00:You know, and that probably brings up the biggest conflict we had with the whole project because I um as a producer and as a husband, I was really frustrated that I could not involve her in the way that I've always wanted her to be involved. You know, if there's some script question or something could be tweaked for her to have input on it, and we we couldn't do it. And you know, I I pressed her a little bit, like, oh come on, you know, this is you know, I'm your husband making this, but she was like, you know, in solidarity with my fellow guild members, I need to stand down, and she did. Andrea, Andrea stood strong. You stood strong, Andrew.
SPEAKER_03:I know, and and then our daughter is actually in it too. She made her audition, but she and so she has a little little part in it. And so they were both out there in Kentucky, you know, making the movie, and I was at home walking the picket line. Which, you know, it was it was tough. It was it was sad a little bit, but um so yeah, I think that was probably the biggest thing that we had conflict over is you know, where are the lines and what can I do and what can't I do? And you know, well, we just made sure that everything they needed done, production rewrites once they knew locations, all that we made sure we got it done because the strike was looming and and from there it was just on set. If they needed to figure something out, they had to figure it out.
James Duke:Uh Brady, you you you mentioned so you guys were shooting, you know, the midst of you know, so she wasn't able to participate, obviously. Um, but you're filming uh in Kentucky, most of it. Um and obviously because you're you know you're shooting for a streamer, you don't have you know a gazillion dollars to spend, you're you've got to be conscious of of uh budget for all different kinds of things. Um so help people understand the difference between say, I'm gonna go make an independent film, I'm gonna go shoot my own movie versus working for a studio or a streamer. Um what's the kind of the differences between producing independently versus producing for something that's gonna be in-house? Um, what are some of the uh uh things that you maybe maybe you weren't aware of that maybe you learned or some things that maybe you had seen or other people had warned you about? Not negatives, but just things to be aware of.
SPEAKER_00:Well, the process of shooting for any company like a streamer or any kind of distribution company, and the funding is already in place, it takes a lot of uncertainty out of the process, and you you can focus a hundred percent on making the movie. When you're doing something independently, you're sometimes fielding calls to raise money during the making of the movie. I mean, you don't want to do that, but sometimes that's the way it goes. Um, so I think it there's something more focused about it. The process itself is is very locked down. And and the process, you know, you know, the legal side of it, the uh the financial reporting, and you know, it there is a process you have to understand and follow um if you want to have a good relationship with with the studio or the streamer you're working for. So that was, you know, I I think I learned a lot of that by doing other kinds of projects, um, you know, comedy specials and um documentary series and different things like that. So um applying that to film is it's it's a similar thing, you know, and probably one of the bigger surprises for for first-time filmmakers is the the process of delivering a movie. And it sounds so easy, you know, just yeah, just hand it off. But you know, the the the legal requirements, legal documentation, all of the different elements to a movie, um, from sound deliverables all the way through different versions of the movie. Um, those are all things that are really locked down and very specific when you go into a situation where distribution is in place. And if you're an independent filmmaker and you know what you're doing, obviously you're planning for all that as well.
James Duke:But yeah, you've got a checklist though that you have to exactly uh yeah, I I I learned uh about deliverables, the hard lesson. I learned that hard lesson myself uh many years ago. Um, so okay, so you have this. Um essentially you have this uh not not not an investor, but essentially you have the uh the distribution plan in place. So you know, okay, my my film is gonna fit onto their platform. Um and so uh when the uh in in a in a typical, let me just say typical, in a typical process, right? The director would get, let's say, 10 weeks to sit and edit on their own before the producers come in. Um what what is what what was the process like for Mr. Manhattan? When when were when were you involved uh with post-production versus when when are the when is the network or I keep saying network, I don't what's the right term? Streamer studio? I don't know. It's both in this case. So that's yeah, but what what's the um it's great American Pure Flex, basically, right? Yeah, that's right. And so um, yeah, they they're they're all of those things. Um what uh break it down for us a little bit in terms of uh the post-production process, in terms of because I was actually just having the reason why I asked, I was just having a conversation where someone asked me, what does a creative producer do versus a non-creative producer? Yeah. So can you kind of walk people a little bit through in terms of what uh what the post process was in your involvement with this film?
SPEAKER_00:Well, I think there's something very important to be said about um the structure and setup of post and thinking it through well in advance. And experienced filmmakers do this, right? So, but but for for anyone newer coming in, you where you can easily be caught up in just you know, casting and you know, is it raising money? Is it you know getting all the team to shoot the movie? Um, but really thinking through the post process all the way through the end. So, you know, having a post supervisor, for example, that knows what they're doing is a is a key hire. So I think I I focus on that a bit, even even if I'm in a more creative role, which I was in this project, because I want to make sure everything is ready and in order and smooth for people when they come in and they're ready. And part of that for me is always wanting for the footage to get into the process immediately. And this is happening naturally more and more because we're all digital, obviously. But you can still have a hiccups if you don't plan it well. So, how fast is it's a question I have. How fast can I get this into the editor? Because they're going to be able to start their work, right? But then they also can give us feedback if anything's going off the rails in any kind of way. Technically, um, we can make little adjustments. Um, obviously, you know, you could you can look at dailies and all that stuff too. Um, but then you know, once we're done shooting, the editor gets their time to assemble a cut. And then the editor or the uh director can come in. And in I found with these kinds of projects, it's pretty variable. I've Had um on one more extreme side of it, I've had a director who was also editing with another editor, and they were completely immersed in posts through the entire process, all the way through not only listening to a sound mix, but like the nitty-gritty details, right? Some directors are very much like that. They want to see all the details and be a part of that. And then there's the other side where there's really they're really more looking at big picture story notes and and and not so immersed in the details. Um, and there's nothing good or bad about either of those, but you have to know who you're working with and um what their preferences are. And as a producer, I also think it's important for me to stand back and not try to be, I don't want I don't I shouldn't be anxious about seeing anything or being involved with that process because you need to be objective, I think. So um sometimes a director or editor will ask your opinions about things, that's fine. But I like to stand back and let them do their work and then come in. And you know, sometimes when it gets to the point where there's a producer's cut or I mean a director's cut, and I come in and I I have notes, um, it can be very, very quick because they have refined it to a certain degree. And in other cases, everybody knows there's a little more work to do. It's not because they didn't do a good job, it's just a typical story, or maybe we in this case with Mr. Manhattan, we had an abundance of material. So we were running pretty long. I mean, the first cut of them of the movie was well over two hours, you know, and you know that's too long in this case. And so we were working through, you know, how do we tighten this up and what's the most essential part of the story that we're telling? And um they you know, the collaboration on this was just was great, you know, even though it's all remote in this in some of these cases, it works very well.
James Duke:Andrea, um help people understand what is it like to have written and rewritten something for all those years, and then once it's shot, like it's you've handed it over, like you don't so now people are chopping things up and moving things around of uh just what is that like both good and bad, like or maybe it's all bad, I don't know. But what what what is that like realistic? Because you've you've you've you've experienced this a lot now, um, writing something and then and then watching something that you wrote. Uh what's it like? Is it is it is it very is it difficult for you uh to see changes that are made or things like that, or have you come to appreciate the way other filmmakers um bring something to the table that you create that you kind of initially created?
SPEAKER_03:Well, they they say that the edit is like the final rewrite because you're you know cutting and moving and you can change. We had one film with that where they re-edited the final scene and it changed the meaning of the entire movie. And that really had a huge I didn't write that one, but it just had a huge impact on me. Like, wow, that's how much they can change something just by the way they cut something together. Um, so you know it's it's interesting. Things are never um, it's always hard for me to watch the very first, watch the cut the very first time because, and many times I'm not there. Maybe I was there for part of it, you know, but I so I only saw certain scenes, but I didn't see a lot of them. And so you have to erase the movie in your mind's eye that you wrote, you know, because you directed it in your head. You you had locations in your brain that you were imagining. And so you have to kind of say, okay, that's not what they chose or not what they could get a lot of times. You know, it's not that they weren't trying to follow what you wrote, but it was just like we have to shoot it here because of time or what money, whatever. And so you have to erase the movie in your mind's eye and replace it with the movie that exists. And I usually have to watch it once, just at least once, to just do that. And then I can start like settling into, you know, looking at what they're doing. And of course, you know, with this particular project, because we're married, I was able to see so much more of the the cut happening. Most of the time, they just spring the whole movie at once. Um, and so I so I was able to see, you know, scenes and stuff happening um in my house, you know, um, from day to day. But I I try also not to give a lot of input or because people are experts at what they do, you know, like the director Brian Hertzlinger, he knows what he's doing. And so he's creating moments, he's shooting it a certain way because he because of his experience. And editors are cutting the scenes together, you know, in a certain way because of their experience or because of what they got or what they couldn't get. And so maybe it can't look to go exactly the way I imagined it because you know, you can only edit what you shoot is the famous saying. And so um, you know, you're working from what you did. I I was very happy with this movie. I've definitely had movies where I where I was disappointed by certain things, you know, in the end, um mostly because when things on very low budgets, when things don't work out, an actor isn't great, or some they and they have to start cutting away, cutting important things that shouldn't be cut because of that, then you lose a big chunk of the story and it looks bad on you. Like it's like, well, that doesn't make any sense. And I think well, there was a whole subplot with this actor that wasn't great. Um so that's when it gets disappointing. But in this case, like everyone was everyone was so we had really, really good actors on this show.
SPEAKER_00:And um and I would say also that you know Brian Herslinger is someone that Andrea had met because he directed another film she wrote, um Christmas Christmas Angel, and they had met on set, and she she was telling me about him and how he was on set, just the kind of way the way he ran um things on set and the way he collaborated. And um, we were considering different directors, and um I I called him because Andrea had had that experience with him, and it turned out to be just an amazing experience. He he's a really amazing collaborator. And when you have someone like that who's not uh a diva, do you know what I mean? Yeah, with the he has a he has a strong opinion and he's an ex he's he's a professional, he's good at what he does, but he doesn't hold his opinion above everybody else's. He's like, Well, let's make the best movie we can make. And that that extends then to Carlos and Alexa Penavega, who came um on board. Um, and you know, they they really added such an amazing dynamic. Um, I had not worked with either of them before, and I have to say, I'm just so happy with their performances. I mean, they were incredible to work with in person. And sometimes when you find someone you like someone in person, you're you you then you watch something later, you're like, Oh, I I like them as a person, but they're not so these guys are amazing. And you know, um Carlos plays um a guy that is not so emotional, he's a more so cerebral, and that comes across obviously in what the way he performs his role. Alexa is the one carrying the kind of the heart in some some ways of the movie, and I have to say, there are just moments I'm watching her and I'm like, wow, how did we how do we get so fortunate to have her in the movie? The both of them, but they're both doing the parts, and that's a part of the collaboration with Brian, him recognizing that, tweaking little things here and there. And then you have Tate Webb, who came in to edit the movie, and and Scott Popchez, who did the kind of final pass because of some scheduling conflicts, and you just get something that's really um beautiful, something you can be proud of. That's awesome.
James Duke:And I love that I love the the once again the collaborative nature of filmmaking where everyone's bringing their best to the game in their particular aspect. Um, Andrea, uh you so uh you've um you've you've you've made uh numerous films now, you've written numerous films. Um the uh I'm curious as a screenwriter, um what is maybe one of the best notes you've ever received, and maybe one of the worst? I'd be curious to know and and and if you would talk a little bit about how important notes are for the screenwriter. Um and uh and Brady, I I want to follow up with you about giving notes as a producer, but for you, Andrea, what's maybe the best note you've ever received on a script? And then maybe what's maybe one of the worst and why?
SPEAKER_03:That's a tricky question. So one of the worst ones is easy. Um be funnier. That's just okay. You know, I it you know, it's that's a very hard note and be funnier. That's funnier, could make this funnier. Um, and so you could we could talk about that for a long time, but that's just it's those notes that are not concrete, I guess, is is how you could file that away into like I don't know how to accomplish that note. Whereas you could say, you know, we would like some some more physical comedy in this area, or you know, like what do they mean specifically about the it needs to be funnier? So just those kind of more overarching generic notes are harder. Um I've I've had some, I've worked with some really great people, and especially in in recent years. And I'm working with a team now, and I I wish I had written down the quote of the way he said it, but I think one of the notes that's very common to get as a screenwriter is um you're always getting pushed to to get into act two sooner, make act one shorter, shorter, shorter, and you get the inciting incident earlier, you know, and you really need I I fully believe that you really need some time in act one to show the character's ordinary world so that you understand why the inciting incident of the film is an inciting incident, why is this a big deal to them? If you don't know them and know what their world is like, you don't know why this bomb just dropped on their life. Um, and then you need a minute for them to adjust to it and then get into act two. And, you know, as scripts get shorter, of course, act one will get shorter. But um, this producer that I was working with said, um, if act one is working, then 30 pages isn't too long. And if act one isn't working, then 15 pages it is, you know, isn't short. Like he he was basically saying, like the page isn't about it, it's it's how those things are working together. And you won't feel it. You got a 30-page act one, and if it's really working and and um you're setting up the character and you're engaging the audience and you're creating suspense and you're you know causing a big ruckus with your inciting incident, then the audience are gonna love it and they won't care that they don't cross the threshold into act two until a few pages later, right? So, so the bigger note when people say that they want to get into act two faster is usually, oh, there's something wrong with act one. It's not page count, it's um you know, it's the effectiveness of what you're doing with the pages you have. And I just thought that was so smart. And he said, I wish I had written down exactly the way he said it, because it was just like a snappy, like bumper sticker way of saying it. And I was like, I'm gonna remember that always.
James Duke:But that, but that, but that's still pretty good, you know?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it was it was a really good note.
James Duke:Yeah. Um, so so what should be a writer's um relationship with notes? Um, should they be adversarial towards them? How do you view note sessions? What what what what should the writer's relationship be in that situation with notes?
SPEAKER_03:So I mean, I fully believe that we're um I I don't believe that I'm like an artiste, an auteur. Like I'm a I'm a I'm working on a team and we're creating a product. We're we're artisans, you know, we're creating a a beautiful uh table and chairs set, say. And so if it's if the you know, if the customer needs it to be a little shorter so it will fit in their dining room, then you can't just be like, well, the 12-foot table is is what I believe in. It doesn't matter. They need the eight foot table to fit in their room. And so, you know, if especially when you have a studio streamer, whoever, and they have a mandate, they know their audience. If they're giving you notes, there's a reason. They know who they're delivering the script to and they know what their needs are. And I feel like honestly, that's one of the reasons why I've been able to work repeatedly for the same people, is that I'll listen to their mandate and understand it and deliver them what they're asking for. And that doesn't mean it's not creative and you're not artistic. It just means that there are parameters that you're working with and you understand how to deliver something artistic and wonderful within those parameters of what they need.
James Duke:So so it isn't, it isn't necessarily that a note is a quote unquote good note or bad note. It could be one that you might there, some are maybe more challenging than others to make work. Would that be a better way of saying it?
SPEAKER_03:I think so. And I and I think, you know, some some people, some executives are very smart with story and they understand what your challenge is as a writer. And some executives know more about marketing and what their people are gonna buy, and they don't know how to tell you how to incorporate that into the story, but they know like our audience is gonna be offended if there's, you know, a gun in the scene or whatever. And so then we have to write that out. And they can't tell you, they can't brainstorm ideas with you of how to rewrite the scene to rework it. Um, but some executives will be able to. And so it's just it just depends on sort of what they're better at. But I think one thing is, you know, it's always hard. Like you want it to be perfect and you want them to love it, but there's always going to be notes. And and if they're delivered well, I mean, some people are better at delivering notes than others, like the way they say them. No doubt. Um, you could really crush a writer by the way that you deliver notes. And it's honestly, I wish more executives knew that how counterproductive that is. Because you crush a writer and then say, Why, you know, why'd you do this so you know, such a bad job? Then they go home and they have to recover for two weeks before they can start writing. On the other hand, if you deliver the notes in such a way like, let's think about this, or we would like to go more in this direction. We really liked what you did with this scene. Could you give us more of that over here? Like if you deliver the notes that way, then the writer is like ready to go home and start working on it because they're inspired and they feel like they're a part of the process instead of being demeaned. So I think there's always gonna be notes, how they're delivered and how is, and you can't you just have to develop a tough skin, you know, in order to accept some of the hard ones sometimes because it's just it's gonna happen. But I do think that there's a little give and take where the way they're delivered could could help uh the writer continue on faster and better um in the process.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I was just gonna say one thing that I think it's psychologically helpful to take 15 minutes to hate it, to hate the notes. I this I'm stealing, I'm stealing this from my friend um Rick Pendleton, a D lobo. You know, you get some note and you're just like, oh, you know, you don't you just spend all the time put painting it something this way and or doing something in a different direction. And I think it's actually really helpful. Just take your minute or 10 minutes, five minutes, whatever it takes. A day hate it a day. And that's true.
SPEAKER_03:You can't take a day, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, exactly.
James Duke:That's really actually, I think that's really helpful advice. I because, like you said, you've put all that work into it, and I so many uh young, younger writers, newer writers, um are afraid of notes or they get adversarial, uh, you know, and they don't work and you'll learn very quickly, you won't work long if that happens. And um, but at the same time, you wrote it because you thought it was good and or you thought or you thought it worked, and and it, and and suddenly it no longer works because they want you to go a different direction. Not and it doesn't mean that it's bad, it means that it no longer works in the same way you thought it worked, but that's yeah, take time to digest that. Brady, for you, um, you know, you're hearing Andrea talk about it from a screenwriter's perspective, and you're sitting there biting your tongue to short, that's not that's no, just kidding. No, um as as a producer, what do you um um how do you see your role in note giving? What's your strategy for note giving? Um, and uh what's what's what's maybe some uh good and maybe even some negative experiences you've had in the process.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I can tell you that being married to a writer has made me much, much better at communicating.
James Duke:Yeah, that's a cheat code. You got a cheat code.
SPEAKER_00:Well, and I mean, I think honestly, if you imagine that the writer's your friend and somebody you want to have a long-term relationship with, then you probably talk to them differently, right? And I think I've learned the most about note giving from her writers' group, actually. Andrea's been in a writer's group for about 20, 25 years, 24 years. And one of the things they do when they give notes to each other is they start with the circle of love, right? Jack.
James Duke:What is Jack Gilbert? Jack Gilbert founded this writer's group. There you go.
SPEAKER_00:Well, and it's helpful in every part of your life if you're commenting on anything.
James Duke:Like, well, well, can you can you just I'm sorry, Bertie? I didn't mean to, but Andrew, can you just explain the circle of friends, friends real quick?
SPEAKER_03:So circle of love, and I so I'm now I'm teaching and I implement this in my workshops too. We all do circle of love. So you start out um and you go around the whole circle, everyone says what they like about it, what they think is working, what's really good. And what that does for you as a writer, it helped it's helpful to know what's working as well as what's not working, because if you don't know what people like, you might cut it. And then next time they're like, oh, I like that. And you said you didn't tell me. So I didn't, you know, in the rewrite, I got rid of that. But um, but it helps you to also kind of feel like, okay, this isn't a complete failure. There's things that are really working about it, and here is what they are, and you hear it from everyone. And sometimes you might have to say, you know, this 12-point courier is beautiful. Um when when you hear that, when you hear that in circle of love, then you know to brace yourself that it's gonna be a bad day. But usually there's a lot more, usually there's something else. And it also forces you, I think, you know, with my students, because every once in a while I'm like, what are they gonna say for circle of love? Like this was a rough, rough week for this everyone. And and but they'll find something. And I really appreciate that too, because I, you know, especially as a teacher, I'm like we're trying to help them get better, right? So I'm I'm sort of more focused on what's wrong with it. And I I hear the other students say, I really like this about it. I really in this moment I was really engaged, and I and I I love to hear that too. And so um, so that's what we do. We go around the circle, everyone says what they love, and then we go into notes. And then at the end, we wrap up by by encapsulating like this is the one final comment, like the one. Either you didn't get to say, or the best note you got today was this, and so you can so when you walk away from an hour's worth of people blah blah blah blah about your script, you have kind of an organized like these are what they thought were the priorities at the end.
SPEAKER_00:So that's awesome. So now yeah, so back to it has informed my philosophy, strategy, or whatever on notes. And first of all, is looking for things that really work. I mean, not that you have to always look, it's it's sometimes it's very obvious what's working. Um, but the other thing is when I don't know if I'm right about a note, right? I I just can give my impressions and my thoughts. And I think what I'm getting at really is tone, you know, that the way you say things. I I uh I use the the word consider a lot, you know, or let's think about what can we explore this option, you know, um, or you you can say a moment isn't hitting for you. You know, there are different things you can say without being, this sucks, you know, which is what a writer is going to hear very easily in your notes. What you're wanting to do is give them what they need to improve it. And and if you're stepping all over them and criticizing in it in a really negative way, it's hard to get in that, get that sense of feeling that I want to do this. So it's it's more about let's work together and and try to find the the improvements we can find. And um, I'm sure that no one's perfect at giving notes because there's no way you can you can't manage someone's emotions about this stuff. You know, you don't know it will get someone upset, but but I think you can really speak kindly and and constructively. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:One thing that I think is interesting is that producers also get notes. Yeah so when you're on the end of the process, this the distributor, whoever, is giving notes on the cut, which the producer's been fairly involved in. And so um, you know, at every stage of the process, someone is giving someone notes. Maybe the producer is giving the writer notes or the and the director, maybe too, but then at the end of it, the director and the producer are getting notes from the studio on how the cut comes out at the end. So everyone is on the receiving and giving at you know both ends of it at different times.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's true. And you know, it reminds me of another thing about notes. It it's helpful for writers to get condensed notes if you have a bigger team of people for for the conflicts in the notes to be worked out a little bit in advance. Yes, because there have been times Andrea has gotten notes and it's like they're all over the place, and then the then you're just lost. You literally the notes contradict each other. Yeah, and so that's one thing. The other thing is that I try to avoid um having notes get down the down the chain that don't need to. So if we're getting notes from a studio executive or a development person, I will sometimes inter interact with them on notes that I think I want to try to deal with before they get back to the writer. Because I'm like, I know what the writer's trying to do here, it's part of our discussions. Let's clarify this. And and you know, sometimes I can filter out a few things that the the exec says, Oh, I get what you're doing there. Okay, great. Or in some other cases, they're like, No, we really have to do this one. And then I can prepare the writer to say, look, this is something the network has to have. So let's let's try to figure out how to make it work, right?
James Duke:Yeah, that's really smart. Uh Brady, you've um you've worked a lot in um in different types of filmmaking. So you've you've done a lot of um uh sports stuff, you've done a lot of stand-up uh specials as well as narrative feature films. I'm curious, um, just kind of looking at all the stuff you've worked on, all the all the you've done a lot of of um stand-up specials. You've produced a lot of stand-up specials. Um what's the what's the similarities and differences between um narrative producing narrative film uh versus all these others?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I won't probably be comprehensive here, but I would say that the forming a team of people to to do the project um is very similar. You know, you're finding the best people for each of the roles, and that changes from project to project. I mean, with comedy specials, um, design and lighting and the DP, those those are the kind of the critical pieces. Um the stand-up, um, the comedian is going to be driving the show creatively and their act is what it is. So um a director, you know, in that case, they're they're helping composed, you know, making sure the shots are composed, they make they'll they'll have their input or whatever, but it's more centered on the on the comedian. So, you know, we're emphasizing different roles more in our in our process of hiring. Um, and then when you get into narrative, you are dealing so much. I mean, I have a huge amount of interaction over the story itself, and then you get into the casting part of it, which is obviously huge. I mean, with Mr. Manhattan as an example, um, we have two kids in the movie, and we went through many, many rounds of trying to find the right kids, and we would find one boy. We we found the the boy right away, and then we were trying to find the girl to match, and we found amazingly talented um girls that we would would have hired, but they didn't, they weren't there was something like they were as tall as the same kit as the the older brother, you know, and so you you go through these processes of really scrutinizing and trying to get the right feeling and the fit, um, because it doesn't it it does only really take one actor to not quite be right. They might be an amazing actor, but just not quite fit, and I think it can disrupt the balance. Um, and and just I think the scrutiny that you give to that process is obviously on a different level when you're you're not doing casting in in some of these other projects. Um I would say that the other dynamic is um uh I the director. And as a as a producer, um I love to work with collaborative people across the board. That's the way I operate. And um, and I think that when you have talented people, you sometimes get people that are a little a little stronger with the way they want to do something. And I I try I adapt to that. You that's what you have to do, and you know you have to know what you're getting into. Um, but I would say that's a difference between like feature films and then say something more in television where a writer is more obviously the EP to the show or something, um, or in documentary filmmaking when you're you know chasing a story that kind of bolts, you know, that type of thing.
SPEAKER_03:The editor becomes one of the best. Exactly.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, exactly.
James Duke:That's a great point. Uh you uh so you've actually worked, um, Brady with uh Louis CK a lot. And there's a there's a uh a gem of a little film that probably not enough people saw because of the unique way that you guys made it and distributed it. Um I wonder if you could talk a little bit about um your involvement in uh Louis's film, the uh Fourth of July. Well, first of all, tell people a little bit what it's like working with him, and then how did you get involved in Fourth of July and what was that like?
SPEAKER_00:Well, uh I produced two of Joe Rogan's specials, and um through that relationship, um I was connected with Louis. And I think most people that know his history know about the challenges he's had in the public space. And um when we were approached um to do his special first, it's what was right before the pandemic that we actually filmed that. Um I didn't know as much of the details about all that. And so I did a kind of a deeper dive into finding out, you know, about that. And talked with a really respected manager, a female manager that I I work with uh quite a bit. And I said, here's the situation. What do you think, you know, um about working with Louis? Uh, because I didn't know him at the time. And um, she said, you know, I think everybody deserves a second chance, you know, everybody uh is worthy of that. And I know this, there's there's a just a lot of feelings around this, and and it's a challenge. Um, but we opted to say, we don't um we're not doing this because we need another job. Honestly, it wasn't about like desperation uh financially or something. It was more about here's somebody that that is in the industry trying to do their thing, and they've we all make mistakes, right? And um we we really decided we would dive into it. And I'm telling you, from the time I started working with him and his um someone that works with him that's close, um I I was instantly um happy to have become a part of the the team. And uh it wasn't long after we did the first special uh that we uh were talking one time and Louis said, Hey, would you take a look at the script? Um, would you be interested in producing this film I want to do? And he and Joe List had written the screenplay in a literally a short period of time, and I read it and I was like, This is this is wonderful. You know, it's very gritty, it it will offend some people, but it it had um a redemptive kind of storyline in it that I really appreciated. And and after the movie was released, I had many people say, you know, I so related to this guy's experience, you know, dealing with kind of rejection of it from his family and being an artist and um dealing with alcoholism and uh dealing with family, like in different places that don't think the way you think, right? Um, they might not be not be so sophisticated and so in um at understanding culture so much. It's a deeply, it's a deeply personal film. Yeah, and you know, he he has a very distinct vision, very clear vision for what he's doing, but he was the most respectful, um kind, generous person. You know, here's an example, and I think I I think it's cool to say this. After we did the first special, we shot it days before the pandemic and the shutdown happened. And I flew home actually sick. I I thought I had COVID, I didn't. Um, but literally um everything shut down. And about three weeks later, he um contacted me and said, Hey, let's let's do something for the crew. And um we ended up paying the crew again um on that special. And it was it was a time when obviously people were were understanding how deep uh the devastation was going to be economically. And um I just really appreciated that, you know, he really looks out for people, and I just I know people aren't gonna, you know, some people are not gonna wanna wanna forgive him or whatever. But I I just have to say I've never spoken about this publicly, and I I just think that he really cares for people and everybody, no matter what the circumstances are, the worst person in the world is worth something, has value, has has sacred. I'm sorry, kind of getting emotional about it because I think people judge each other so harshly. And it's one of the ways that that people of faith can make a difference is being there through thick and thin, being loving and kind and accepting of people. Um you have to make judgments on things. Obviously, you can't just do anything, but you also can be um an encouragement, a support. Um be a good person, you know, and that can can be helpful to people.
SPEAKER_03:Can I tell a story about too about how that was rewarding in the end? Because so, you know, we we went through a lot of things over our time between, you know, our early days. And then we had kids. We um, you know, there was a couple strikes, you know, through all the process. There's been a lot of ups and downs financially. It's very expensive to live in here. We're obviously, you know, in these project-by-project um things. And and so Brady ended up for a while of his career kind of taking this diversion into basically sports documentary, doing a lot of UFC and you know, different kinds of sports stock. And and there was a point in time where he was like, this is not my heart. Like I want to be doing features, like this that's what I came out here to do. And, you know, he's earning money for our family and supporting us, but it just wasn't, he was always thinking, you know, why did I get off on this tangent? But through doing the UFC things, he met Joe Rogan because Joe's, you know, working in that arena as well as doing comedy specials. So he stepped over into the comedy specials because of Joe. But then because of Joe, he he did a lot of other comedy specials and met Louie. And because of meeting Louie, he did another feature. And for me, it was like I could see him being faithful and doing the things that got put in front of him, the next thing to do, and taking care of taking care of our family and you know, doing the best job he could with whatever it was that he was doing, which is why Joe Rogan says, Hey, do my special, which is why Joe says, Hey, you should have Brady, produce your, you know, your special. And so um, because he was doing the best he could in those moments, that thing that was the desire of his heart to get be back into features came back around in the weirdest kind of way. You wouldn't ever say, like, oh, you want to get into features, you should do some UFC sports documentary, and it'll take you right there. You know, there's no there's no easy track in this or clear track in this business anyway, but that was a very roundabout way to get back to features. And then from there, that's pretty much you know what you've done. You do a comedy special here and there, but like you did strong fathers, strong daughters, and then Mr. Manhattan, then it's like you're back in features again in this, you know, crazy roundabout fashion.
James Duke:It's it's it's really a um a beautiful thing to think about. We uh, you know, I I tell people all the time, whether it's an act one or just when I take people out to coffee or whatever and they want to pick my brain. I'm like, look, work begets work, begets work, begets work. Like if if if it's not gonna physically hurt you or other people, take the job. Because when you take the job, uh you meet other people, you build relationship with other people. It's an opportunity um to, you know, as producers to serve. And then in doing so, you build relationships with people that that it may or may not lead to other opportunities, but that is traditionally how a lot of the work in this town gets made is people work with somebody and they either refer you or they take you with them to the next project and they just keep and that's just typically how and what I love what you're saying, Brady, and uh Andrea is so sweet, she's such a she's such a sweet wife, right there. But you know, um but it's like hearing your heart, you you're doing the work, but what I hear, I'm just listening to you talk, and I'm just going, man, this guy loves people. He just wants to, he wants to, he wants to help people, and but you don't get the opportunity to help people at that level, giving them second chances and things like that, and helping uh until you've basically you're good enough to. Does that make sense? Like you like your skills, you developed your competencies, and that's what we all do. And and I think that's what I want people to hear coming away from it is if you want an opportunity, you've got to take the opportunities, right? Like if you want to eventually be the one that can allow to afford to give people second and third chances, you know, take the opportunities to develop your competencies and grow, and whether it's as a screenwriter or a producer or a director or whatever. Um, so anyway, I just um thank you for sharing that.
SPEAKER_00:I think that's right. I was gonna say one thing is that it just takes longer than you think it's gonna take. Yeah, which is a challenge. Yeah, I we we had some friends when we first moved LA. They said, Yeah, I'm gonna come out for a year or so, maybe two, and see how it goes. And and at the time we were like, okay, you know, but then then they were, you know, we were here five years. We had friends that were leaving after five years, you know. And you're like, okay, they've been here long enough to know if it's gonna work for them, if they want to do this. But you know, you need our five or 10 year outlook to think that you're gonna be in this business. That's right.
James Duke:Andrea knows we we have the 10-year rule we talk about at Act One, a minimum minimum, minimum. Um, so I want to get you guys out of here with this. This has been a great conversation, and and I really hope people get a chance to check out Mr. Manhattan. Um when you guys um and and but I'd like for both of you to answer this question. Um, what uh now that you guys, you know, you guys work in the business, you guys have uh accomplished a lot in the business, you're also husband and wife, you have children, you're you're you're seeing your children kind of grow up, all this. I'm I'm curious. Uh to the young person who's listening to this um this podcast there, um, they're maybe thinking about moving out to Hollywood, maybe they're not married yet, or maybe they're just married. Um what does success actually look like to you guys? Can you can you define success for the Nasphels? Like for Andrea, can you define it? And Brady, can you can you what what does it look like um for people who are going, oh man, is success winning an Academy Award? Is success being able to to own a house in uh in Malibu? Um, is success, you know, um getting an agent? I don't I don't know. Like I'm genuinely I'm I'm 20 something years old, I'm thinking about what what does success actually look like as followers of Jesus?
SPEAKER_00:What first comes to my mind is faithfulness. And it's maybe not that sexy to say that, you know, but but the truth is at the end of the day, if you're not following what you think is right and living authentically in that and and really putting in the work to live authentically in that faith, then you're not likely to end up in the the right places. Um C.S. Lewis had a I think it was a commencement speech speech. Um, and I'm gonna forget the name of it. It had to do with circle of friends, uh the inner circle. Yes. I don't know if you've heard of it, but he talks about doing the right thing with the people that you authentically connect with, and you end up in the place that you're supposed to be when you do that, living into your strengths, living into your relationships. And if you're trying to get inside somebody else's circle and fighting and clawing for that, you're always unhappy and uh I've experienced a little bit of that. I think there's an instinct inside of us to want to get ahead to do take shortcuts and all that stuff. But I think faithfully living our faith and um according to the values we have and being willing to put in the work um leads you to a place where there's more peace, even if everything isn't like you expected. Because I think one of the things we've always said is whatever we've been, whatever we're planning is probably not going to be the thing that happens. It almost always is something else. That's right. That's right. That's funny.
SPEAKER_03:I think that's absolutely true. We would really strive to make something happen, and then that would fall apart and we get a phone call the next day, some random person that's like, would you like to take this job? And we're like, oh, okay, I guess that's what we're what we're doing. That has definitely been a pattern. I mean, I, you know, I think looking at it, you know, after being out here 20 almost 25 years, it's your your definition changes. You know, you come out here to kind of change the world and win the Oscar and all those things. And then you just realize like what actually um being in those kind of positions, what that life looks like. And you have to decide like at what cost, you know. I mean, there's probably we there's probably a lot of things that we could have done. There's there's an early job that you could have taken that would have meant you were away from me and and our baby, Emma, at the time, um, you know, maybe months at a time. And you might be working at a big studio right now because that job was on a track where that could have happened. But that was a that was a you know a fork in the road um where where we said that's not that's not what we want, you know, at what cost do you want that job?
SPEAKER_00:I would like to know my daughter. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Exactly. Yeah. And so you have you have to, you you have to make those decisions. And I I feel like um it's very hard to define success because it's different for different people. But I I think for us, you know, I'm so happy with how our family has turned out.
SPEAKER_02:Yes.
SPEAKER_03:Even raising kids in LA, you know, and I'm so proud of them. Um, so proud of who they are. And and you know, I think that's one of the fears that people had when we moved out here, you know, early, raise your kids, you know. And it's like, you know what? They're strong. They're strong kids, and they, you know, they know what they believe and um they're talented, they're here in a competitive place where they have, you know, they have to step it up. Like it's been it's been great to to be together and to raise them here because that's what where one of the places where we're like, we we will be successful here in this area, even if it means we won't be as successful, you know, as far as fame or something like that. Um, we're doing the things that we love and what we're good at. And I feel like that's I feel like that's success.
James Duke:That's beautiful. Both those answers were beautiful. And I I I wish people would um um be open and honest and talk about this more because I think that um the more realistic and honest we are with ourselves and with others, I think it it it creates a more realistic picture and a more honest picture for those who are gonna come after us of what of the work that really has to be done, which is look, you know, let's tell let's make great movies, let's tell great stories, let's make great television, but let's be great people when we do it. Let's live great lives doing that. Like let's treat people with dignity and respect. Let's lift up Christ's name with how we act on set, how we act in our neighborhood when we pick our kids up from school. Like those things don't stop and start just because of, you know, it and and just hearing, just you guys are a, and I just want to say this, you know, here we are publicly. So all three people who are gonna listen to this podcast. Um uh you guys have such a wonderful reputation in in in town. Um everyone um who knows Brady and Andrea in Nasville um speaks of you guys with such um uh just a joy, and they speak of of you guys with uh just such a sense of knowing your integrity. Um both of you guys, like both of you guys. And so as a couple, you guys carry that, but also as individuals, people who have worked with you guys, um, just speak to uh just your integrity and your character, the way you guys have carried yourselves. And so I thank you um uh for um not only your friendship and your support of Act One and everything, but I I just thank you for being the type of uh individuals that we want to see replicated uh out here. Um, and and just thank you for all you guys have done and congratulations on um uh Mr. Manhattan coming out. What an exciting kind of fun thing to for a husband and wife to be able to do together. And um congratulations on all the other projects you guys have got going on. And um uh thank you for spending some time with me today. You know, a lot of what act one is to this day is because of a lot of what you've done, Andrea. So thank you so much.
SPEAKER_03:Well, thank you.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, thank you so much. That that means a lot to us. Appreciate it.
James Duke:I always like to close uh by praying for my guests. Would you guys let me do that?
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely.
James Duke:Heavenly Father, we just uh want to pause and stop and thank you for uh Brady and Andrea. Thank you for uh not only um their relationship with you, but their relationship with each other um and the way they have um carried themselves just by um uh not only uh the art that they have created, the work that they have created, but the way in which they have treated others, the way in which they have uh been a blessing to the every room that they've walked into, and how they leave people um feeling um better when they walk out of it than when they first walked in. God, thank you for uh using them to carry your name into all these different rooms. God, thank you for um uh just the chance that um uh we've had to talk today. And I pray, God, that this conversation would be an encouragement to so many who listen to it. And uh I pray God that you would bless everything they've got going on in their lives. I pray you'd bless their marriage, you'd bless their relationship with their children, you'd bless their um job opportunities, and uh we look forward to um to more amazing projects. Maybe even uh husband and wife do all kinds of films that they'll make together. I don't know, we'll see. Um God, we put all that uh um uh at your feet, and we just thank you for um this time. We pray this in Jesus' name and your promises we stand. Amen. Thank you for listening to the Act One podcast, celebrating over 20 years as the premier training program for Christians in Hollywood. Act One is a Christian community of entertainment industry professionals who train and equip storytellers to create works of truth, goodness, and beauty. The Act One program is a division of Master Media International. To financially support the mission of Act One or to learn more about our programs, visit us online at Act One Program.com. And to learn more about the work of Master Media, go to MasterMedia.com, it's a good thing.