Act One Podcast
Act One Podcast
Writer/Director Spencer Folmar
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Act One Podcast - Episode 47 - Interview with Director and Screenwriter, Spencer Folmar.
Spencer Folmar is the co-writer and co-director of the new film, SAINT NICK OF BETHLEHEM, starring Daniel Roebuck. Based on a true story about Allen Smith's life, this inspiring story follows a man who, after the heartbreaking loss of his son, transforms his grief into a beacon of hope for others by embodying the spirit of Santa Claus. The film is currently streaming on Amazon Prime Video and Angel Studios.
Spencer Folmar is a passionate filmmaker, producer, and storyteller known for creating bold, authentic films that inspire and challenge audiences. As the founder of Hard Faith Films, Spencer has committed his career to crafting stories that delve into real-world struggles while offering hope and redemption. His work stands out in the faith-based film space for its raw honesty, tackling themes often avoided in traditional Christian cinema.
Spencer’s filmography includes Generational Sins in 2017, a powerful drama exploring forgiveness and generational brokenness, and Shooting Heroin in 2020, a film about a small town taking justice into their own hands to stop the spread of drugs by whatever means possible.
Beyond directing and producing, Spencer champions independent filmmakers through the Hard Faith Film Festival, providing a platform for fresh, faith-centered voices.
Spencer’s motto, “Telling Stories That Liberate,” reflects his dedication to creating cinema that resonates deeply with viewers, sparking conversations that lead to spiritual and personal growth. His unique approach has garnered recognition as a filmmaker unafraid to explore the messiness of life while pointing to the hope found in redemption.
The Act One Podcast provides insight and inspiration on the business and craft of Hollywood from a Christian perspective.
So often, especially in the postmodern world in which I grew up in, nothing mattered. I was a nihilist at 21 because it just felt like it didn't matter what I did or didn't believe, what someone believed or didn't believe, it didn't matter. There's just no truth. And if there's no truth, then our decisions don't matter, our choices don't matter, there's no ramifications, there's no consequences. And I think forever, you know, for these hundred years and great plays and stories and parables before that, but today film show the extreme implications of everyday choices and the eternal significance of these choices and what significance a single person's life has.
James Duke:You are listening to the Act One podcast. I'm your host, James Duke. Thanks for tuning in. If you like what you hear, please subscribe to our podcast and leave us a good review. My guest today is writer-director, Spencer Fomar. Spencer has been making independent feature films for over 15 years. He's also the founder of American Talent Management, as well as the Hard Faith Film Festival. His 2017 theatrical debut, Generational Sins, made worldwide news with his new Hard Faith genre. Some of his other films include Shooting Heroine and Bright Sky. His latest film, Saint Nick of Bethlehem, is currently streaming on Amazon Prime Video and Angel Studios. Check it out. Spencer is a good friend, and we cover a lot in this conversation. I hope you enjoy it. Spencer Fulmer, welcome to the Act One podcast. It's good to see you.
Spencer Folmar:Good to see you, Jimmy Duke. Thank you so much for having me on the Act One Podcast. Love Act One.
James Duke:We've been thank you. I love you too. I love you more. We've been talking about, we've been catching up here. And it's you are you are basically you're not I can't call you bicostal because you're not on the other coast, but you're you are you are you're splitting your time between now California and Pennsylvania, is that right?
Spencer Folmar:Yes, the California of the East.
James Duke:The California of the East.
Spencer Folmar:My family goes back to before the Revolutionary War here. So yeah, we've been here a long time. Sun American Revolution. But since 2015, I've been a California native. And uh and and so we are splitting our time now between Pennsylvania and California. But yes, the California of the East.
James Duke:And you you have shot a lot of your stuff there in Pennsylvania. We're gonna talk about some of those things and kind of why you do what you do, but but just in order to get people who who maybe don't know you, Spencer, which is a downright shame because you're a great you're a great person to know. Fill people in a little bit on on just kind of your journey to faith. Like give us a little give us a little encapsulation of of what brought you both to God and to film, because I know there is some connection between the two.
Spencer Folmar:Yeah. Well, thank you, Jimmy Duke. I grew up in the sticks of Pennsylvania, and so I was brought to film first. Film was always an escape. I love film. I grew up going to our local drive-in and our single screen screen historic theater. And for as long as I can remember, I always saw movies, memorized every line of my favorite films as a kid, and I thought I want to direct movies, I want to make films. That's what I want to do for my whole life. I have known that as long as I can remember. I never had a spiritual foundation, I never had a faith foundation. I had gone to church for Christmas and Easter a handful of times before I was 21, didn't grow up in the church, and really had written off Christianity just because I had heard enough about it from just Western culture. And was, for whatever reason, after graduating from college, looking for a spiritual foundation before I moved across the country to Los Angeles to pursue film because I knew I knew no one, I knew no one across the country. I knew no one in Los Angeles, I knew no one in the Hollywood industry. And I wanted to have some kind of foundation of a spiritual understanding. And what had happened, interestingly, is in our in my senior year of high school, we had a foreign exchange student from Pakistan who was Muslim and he was very serious about his faith. And so I learned a lot about Islam and read the Quran with him that did not resonate with me. I read the Book of Mormon, did not resonate with me. And my sister had recently read the Bible for the first time, and she had started taking her faith seriously. And she said, Before you move to Los Angeles, you should read the Bible. You should consider Christianity for the first time. And so I did, and I was gonna just go to like a European cafe and read the Bible from front to back and decide once and for all, I believe in Christianity. And instead, I decided with some wise counsel that it would be better to do that under some tutelage of people who had studied the Bible their whole life. So I went to a Bible school overseas in New Zealand, and I read the Bible for the first time. It was called Adventure Bible School. You read it while you were living out in the bush of New Zealand.
James Duke:Wait a second, wait a second, wait a second. I know, I know. At a 21 year old, are you saying before you cracked open a Bible, you joined a Bible school?
Spencer Folmar:Yes, because I had read the Quran and I read the Book of Mormon, and I just they weren't all that interesting, and I really, really didn't want to read the Bible, and I was going to, but like it just felt like reading an algebra book. And so I was like, if I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do this someplace cool. And I love Lord of the Rings. So I was like, I'm gonna do this in New Zealand. And so I I went to New Zealand and it was adventure Bible school. So you lived out, you know, you you you went camping, you lived out in the middle of nowhere for six weeks, and you read the Bible. A lot of people's gap years, you know, a lot of Canadians and English. And and I hated it for the first four and a half weeks, and I hated all these annoying Christians and you know, all these weak people, and blame, you know, they would they would blame everything that they did on themselves, and they would all they, you know, they're just so insufferable. And then by the fifth week, I realized that the problem with this whole Bible school and this Bible and this religion wasn't all these other people, it was me, and that I was the selfish SOB. And that the point of my existence was not to glorify myself, but the point of my existence, if there was any point in living, was to be a thread in God's tapestry to glorify him. And so it just was a complete 180 in the wilderness experience, and it was that Galatians 2.20 that's no longer I who live, but Christ who lives through me. And I just thought, all right, I've I haven't lived that long, but it felt like an early life crisis at 21 years old. I thought, there's not, I don't see a lot of point in living for me, for my glory, and just if I if it's just me and my end, it seems like a pretty futile ending, dark ending. There's not a lot of purpose. But and I was kind of a nihilist at that point. I I had read these other religious books, and I just thought there's not a lot of purpose to anything. But I but I realized after reading reading Galatians and reading Acts before that, and and I started after the Gospels because I thought I'd heard enough about Christianity and I heard I heard enough about you know Jesus' life. I was like, what happens after Jesus' life? So I started with Acts and then I read forward, and once I got to Galatians, which isn't all that much further, that's when I converted. And then I read the Gospels, and then I read the Old Testament, and then I went to seminary because I realized that I want to make movies now about the greatest thing that has ever happened, the whole purpose of living that I never heard about for 21 years. I want to make movies about God. And I just read the Bible for the first time ever in this eight-month, what turned into like an eight-month Bible school. And so I went to seminary so that if I did make movies about God or I talked about God, hopefully it would be theologically sound and I would not lead people astray because I knew nothing about Christianity because I just read, I just dipped my toe in the ocean of theology for the first time.
James Duke:Yeah. Wow. Wow. So you so after your conversion, you felt a you said, I want to, you immediately was almost immediate. I want to take this new found faith, yeah, and I want to immediately apply it to this this passion and and and drive that I've had my whole life. Yeah, exactly.
Spencer Folmar:Yeah, because I and I because I still love film. And I had built in a film school, I had had opportunities to study under Oscar-winning filmmakers, and I love film. And I realized that God could use my skills for film and I could tell stories about God in a fantastic way, but I want to talk about him accurately. And I was and I was also interested about learning about Christian filmmaking because I'd never seen a Christian movie. And so I watched a lot of faith-based films and I didn't find them all that riveting, and they didn't really speak that much to me. And also, I want to go to seminary just so I could talk about things that I thought would help people get to the truth and beauty of Christ quicker in the 90, 120 minutes I have them in a in a cinema with a film. And I and I I love film and I believe in film. I leave believe in the power of film, and it's I think still the most impactful medium for conveying a message. And we just don't have people's attention span anywhere in society like we do, especially in a cinema, or you know, if they can watch their film at home without looking at their phone. But still, the power of film is amazing for conveying a message. And so if we can also use that incredible medium to accurately showcase this beauty of Christ that I didn't discover for 21 years for people who desperately need it, like I needed it then, what a what a youthful, beautiful way to spend the rest of your life. That's why I decided then.
James Duke:What do you what do you love about film so much? What what is it about film? Because obviously, like with anything else, our our love for something or appreciation for something matures over time and you fell in love with it at an early age. So what would you say maybe what you loved early on versus how has your love for film matured up to this point?
Spencer Folmar:You know, I'll butcher it, but I I saw recently that the Pope talked about his our new amazing American Pope talked about his new his top four favorite films, as well as the power of cinema and the power of film. And he said, like, the you know, what's so beautiful about film is that it shows the significance of life. It shows the significance of living. You see your story or some resemblance of your story on the big screen, and every choice that main character makes has incredible significance for those 90, 120 minutes that you travel with that person. They have profound impacts on how the rest of the story unravels. And so often, especially in the postmodern world in which I grew up in, nothing mattered. I was a nihilist at 21 because it just felt like nothing mattered. It didn't matter what I did or didn't believe, what someone believed or didn't believe, it didn't matter. You know, there's just no truth. And if there's no truth, then our decisions don't matter, our choices don't matter, there's no ramifications, there's no consequences. And I think forever, you know, for these hundred years and great plays and stories and parables before that, but today, film, they show the extreme implications of everyday choices and the eternal significance of these choices and what significance a single person's life has. I think one of the most beautiful things about Christianity that I think isn't talked about enough from the church, and is very uniquely Christian, I think more than most of the other religions, is the dignity of man, the dignity of humanity. So I think like I don't I don't, you know, I don't just I don't like making roles for any filmmakers as someone who calls himself hard faith, but I don't particularly like slasher films or horror films or films that are focused on cruelty because I don't want to denigrate or degrade the the eternal value of one soul. And so I think good Christianity and good theology explains human dignity well. And I think a great film shows how in in significant one person, even if it's a fictional person that never lived, that that someone just made up, it shows how much that well-lived or poorly lived life can impact you as an audience member. It can impact all the people in this fictional world, it can impact everyone that has seen the story, that you're talking about this movie that you saw 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 years ago. And for all of us that are living like what can feel like an ant amongst 7 billion people, where it where no matter what we do, there's no impact and no significance. Seeing and feeling that experience of significance in cinema, I think is something that has stayed with me throughout the years and something that I've appreciated more and more as I've gotten older and able to articulate why it matters to me so much. Because when I was young, I just saw it as what I would call escapism. But what it would really was was I saw a future in which was more exciting and more meaningful and had purpose that I couldn't find in my current existence as a young kid.
James Duke:That's good. That's really good. I for me, one of my struggles, and I think it's a struggle that you have too, with this kind of category that's often referred to as Christian film or Christian cinema or faith-based films or whatever, whatever people want to call it these days, is is they tend to be so heavenly minded that they forget that we're all living here on earth right now. And that they're they're they they're I don't I don't fault them for their attempts to try to you know get us to lift our eyes to heaven. I'm I'm being very gracious with my descriptions here. But the example that I give is like a filmmaker like Alexander Payne or some of these other guys, they're just dealing with like the basic human emotions and the and the transcendental nature of what it means to be human and connecting to all connecting everyone into that kind of mutual human experience. And I one of my big complaints about this genre of filmmaking of figure is that's almost completely absent. There's very little in in these films about the actual human experience, and I think that's why so many of them leave us hollow. You you obviously have a strong take on this because of hard faith. So what first of all, what what's your response to that? And then two, tell people a little bit about what hard faith is and kind of what what what brought you to uh to to kind of create this new category, if you will.
Spencer Folmar:Yeah, I I love how you put it that like some of these faith-based films are so heavily minded, it's like us here on Earth can't connect with them. It's so true. And I say this, you know, when I'm trying to explain hard faith or doing a workshop about it. It's like the world in which I saw hard, you know, the the traditional faith-based films, which are often synonymous with family-friendly only entertainment, are so censored and so rosy colored, and they're so idealistic that it's a world that no one has ever lived in. You know, maybe Am and Eve lived in it before Eve took that apple, but otherwise, no one has ever been so privileged and so blessed to live in this PBS special of a world that the faith-based entertainment depicts.
James Duke:I love that. It's almost like a new fantasy genre.
Spencer Folmar:It's a complete fantasy genre. You know, it's a little kids' comic book series, and and none of us have, you know, because so so when as soon as that type of movie begins, I'm like, all right, well, even for someone who has been in the church now for 15 years, a late convert that has been in the church for 15 years, I have to like do some mental gymnastics and put on, like, you know, put on my hat and realize that this is a different world in which they're depicting. But if I'm bringing my cousin or my brother or my friend that is not a Christian, that never went to church, that never saw any of our Christian ghetto, you know, fabrications, then it's completely inaccessible because it's just a made-up world that doesn't exist and and and really doesn't serve anyone. And it doesn't even serve, like, you know, the best, you know, because I know you're being charitable, so I also try and be charitable. It can be like Sunday school, right? Like it's almost like a Sunday school, like that's how we sometimes talk about it. And we never get out of Sunday school, we just keep feeding people milk, we never feed them food. But you know, it's also not serving the gospel message, because if we pretend that this fake world, this PBS special of a world, is the real world, that's what we keep depicting in our faith-based films and showing to the world, you know, in in cinemas and saying this this is the Christian world, well, then we never needed a savior. Things were never that bad. If the world is not R-rated, there was never need for a bloody crucifixion. So it is just it just goes against common sense and just what we see and what we hear and what we feel and what we know every day since we were born, since we realized that we existed. We live in an extremely broken, dark, terrifying world. And none of us have experienced anything else. So to depict that only in these faith-based films is dishonest, and it's also unproductive because we are pointing someone to a golden calf, we're not pointing someone to a savior.
James Duke:You you that's a great that's a great way to put it. The and the Sunday school analogy is is is dead on because for many people who would make the argument, and I've got family, uh the the There's many people who would make the argument that they that, you know, oh, they love these kinds of film. I would make the argument to them is the issue isn't that you like these kind of safe films. It's not you just don't like film in general for the most part. You know, like you just that's just but the the Sunday school analogy is really good, Spencer, because I think that I would tell I would ask those same people, I would say, okay, go go to Sunday school class, and I want you to go to Sunday school, and I want your only church experience to be that felt bored lesson. And I and I and I literally week after week, you're not allowed to go to the main sermon. You have to sit in there with eight-year-olds and hear the felt. At some point, you're gonna look at me and you're gonna go, I really can't do this anymore. This is this is lovely, this is good, but do you have anything else for me? And then it's gonna be like, Well, yeah, it's called the main service. It's called where the pastor's preaching the the sermon to the adults because we have an understanding that there are some things in the Bible we don't teach eight-year-olds, not because they're not true, but because of their maturity level, they're not prepared to grasp their brains, they are still developing. So what we do is we wait, we pace, we pace our understanding of scripture. We're not withholding things from them because we don't think that they're untrue or things like that. But it's that we understand that there are levels of maturity. And unfortunately, this conversation is completely absent when it comes to the arts. There is a level of maturity to the arts that we have to be aware of. The other one I give is the going bowling. And when I would go bowling with my kids when they were little, they would put up those bumpers. You know what I'm talking about?
Spencer Folmar:Oh, yeah. I love those things.
James Duke:Yeah. You know, my son didn't have those, and my daughter had them. And my son got really frustrated with all the gutter balls, right? And my daughter's just like knocking down pens left and right, you know. And and the truth is, is I feel like that's the way a lot of people are choosing their films. And it's like the truth of the matter is life is gutter balls. Oh, yeah. Life is is almost exclusively gutter balls in different stages of life. And our stories should reflect that. And if our stories if I'm okay with once again, I'm okay with the felt board Sunday school lessons for for a time period. I'm okay with the bumpers, the gutter bumpers for a time period. But at some point, if you're if you if you want your stories to reflect real life, you've got to have gutter balls. You've got to remove the bumpers of your stories and let people see life reflected back to them the way they experience it in their everyday lives.
Spencer Folmar:Absolutely. And like there are some people who just love Hallmark movies, right? Like, you know, grandma's and so many people just they just love Hallmark movies. They want a feel-good movie, they want Sunday school, they want Feltboard. Absolutely. That's fine, right? Right. And you know, superhero movies, everything else. There, but whenever we we make that the only representation of our faith, I think it's it's dangerous and disingenuous because it cuts out everyone that our faith is for, which is for the sick and the dying and the lost and the sinners who know that they need help. It's not just a feel-good story. It is a feel-good story, but it comes through a crucifixion, it comes through death, and it comes through atonement, and it comes through a fall, and and then there's redemption. But if you just live on the mountaintop experiences, you never look down into the valley of all your brothers and sisters who have only lived in darkness. And that's not okay.
James Duke:And by the way, I understand the criticism for people who say, or let me let me, I understand the theological criticism for people who say you focus too much on the crucifixion and not enough on the resurrection. I get that. But if you focus too much, there is no resurrection without the crucifixion.
Spencer Folmar:Yeah.
James Duke:Like from a just from a theological standpoint, there's no there's no resurrection without the crucifixion, right? There's not a crown without a cross. Like this is what we know according to scripture and what Paul talked to us about. So the so then when we look at our art, we can acknowledge that they're there that lighter films, feel good things, that that's all wonderful and good. There's nothing wrong with it. We have categories all throughout our art that allow us to have different types. It's called genre. You can operate in different genres, but to your point, to exclude the crucifixion is to ring, is to, is to make the resurrection, is to hollow the resurrection out. And so our films, if they're not about, if they're not about the crucifixion, then what are they about?
Spencer Folmar:Totally. Yep. And and and that's a that's why we started, that's why I started hard faith, is because it's like all I saw in the marketplace, besides a couple of Catholic examples, like The Passion of the Christ and Mel Gibson and Mel Gibson and Mel Gibson, the only examples I saw were these family-friendly only films. If you want to make a Christian movie, it had to practically be a Hallmark movie. It had to be PG or G, had to be okay for Sunday school, and it couldn't have anything offensive, and it had to be that you know that that Sunday school felt bored, and that's it. And you weren't allowed to make anything else if you want to call it Christian. And if you included anything of crucifixion or anything else, then you know that's it's not a Christian movie. And I just said, well, that's not who I'm trying to reach. I'm not trying to reach people who already already realize that you know Sunday's coming, that resurrection is coming. I'm trying to reach people who have only ever lived in darkness, who have never ever seen the light, who have never tasted water, never ever lived in the desert, or who continually fall down into the valley or live most of their life in the valley, even if they are believers. And so I want to give hope to those who are least hopeful, who need hope the most. And there doesn't seem to be anyone in the marketplace that wants to embrace that, especially if it's in a PG 13 or an R-rated setting that depicts the world in which it actually is, a world that needs a savior. It doesn't censor the world, it shows the world, it starts people on the very first minute, the world in which we all walked into the movie theater in. And so that's why we started hard faith. That is hard faith. It's called telling stories that liberate. We tell real stories, human stories, that have truth in them. You know, it can be explicit, it can be metaphorical, but it's always Christian, it's always leading people to Christ. And it's often dealing with topics that pastors don't deal with and Christian films don't deal with.
James Duke:I remember when we were releasing, we were just working on the distribution deal for Ragamuffin. Oh, yeah. And we were negotiating with Lifeway bookstores. At the time, Lifeway bookstores was the number one Christian, they were the number one distributor. Like you, you had to get you had you had to get your I'm I'm dating myself here, DVDs. You had to get your DVDs into Lifeway if you're going to make any money, because they they kind of they were like 90% of the marketplace. It was like huge. They I don't know what they are now. I mean, I don't think anybody could buys anything from those places anymore. But anyway, but if you do, great. I'm mad at you if you do. But anyway, my point being is you had to, we they were a gatekeeper. They were a massive gatekeeper. And here we made this little indie film on Rich Mullins, and they're selling his music still, you know, posthumously, years after he's dead, playing his music, all that kind of stuff. Well, Rich drove one of the things about Rich in real life is he drank and smoked. Smoked. And some and he had a problem with drinking, and that's kind of a part of part of his story. So obviously it's it's referenced in the film. You see him drinking and smoking. They refused to carry our film and sell our film for that alone. And the And it's a great movie. The decision maker, the decision maker, the guy who had to make the one who made the decision. We went back and forth with him multiple times. There was like three people who made the decision, the buyers, if you will, but there was one guy who was like, you had to get to him, you know, and the other two buyers were for it, but he was the one, and he was like, No, he kept saying no, no, no. And we went back and forth and back and forth, and he refused to, in the end, they they they said no. And the explicit reason given was because there was drinking and smoking in the film. And so discounting everything else, the fact that you're selling his music right there, but this person thought that that that does that uh cannot be included in a quote unquote faith-based Christian film that that like so you know what you you could agree or disagree with that person. I tend to disagree with them wholeheartedly, but that's what you're talking about. You're talking about some of this just feels arbitrary. And and and that's why I I think for what you're what you're talking about with hard faith is you're saying we're we're not we're not concerning ourselves with those kind of things. We're concerning our ourselves with these deeper thematic issues. That's where the the thoughtful Christian, the thoughtful Christiannness of a movie resides is is is in is in is in the themes. Would that would that be a good way of saying it?
Spencer Folmar:Absolutely. Yeah, you know, and and just like you know, Rich's story, and I love Ragamuffin and had the pleasure of working with a lot of the Ragamuffin crew on one of my films.
James Duke:You did, that's right. Generational sins, right?
Spencer Folmar:Generational sins, yeah, our first world hard faith theatrical film. But you know, it it's like the thing that I love about the Bible is that there's these amazing characters of faith. And when you hear about them in Sunday school, they didn't do anything wrong. They were like a second coming of Christ or a first coming of Christ. But then when you read the Bible and you hear about these stories, the Bible is so refreshingly honest, unlike any other religious book, where these incredible men and women of faith constantly, right after winning wars and doing great things in the name of the Lord, they sinned terrifically, horrifically. And the Bible is so honest about how people continue to mess up and sin, and we can never do it on our own, and we continually need a savior at the point of conversion, sanctification, all the way until Christ's second coming. And and so Rich is someone that God used mightily, like King David and Solomon and so many great people, and he yet continued to stumble and fall. And whenever we only show the Sunday school version of these people when we only play their music, but we don't talk about their struggle. Well, then it makes it seem like, well, God really can only use perfect people. But that's not true. And the Bible is so relentless about showing that every single person God used, every single one, even the apostles, even Peter, the rock in which the church was built on denied Christ three times when he needed him the most. And the Bible shows that that's the kind of people God uses time and time again. Yet the church says, no, we can only show people that never mess up. And if you mess up, we can't and we can't sell it and we can't distribute it. But that's not that's not the story, that's not that that then excludes everyone. That even excludes those of us that sit every Sunday in the pews, and it certainly excludes people that have never gone to church to ever be used by God.
James Duke:Amen. Amen. In fact, I would go as far as to say the work the worst characters in all of literature are found in the Bible. So true. I was just reading through Chronicles. Oh my god. You you can't you can't, you know, you you throw a you close your eyes and throw a dart, and you're gonna and you're gonna nail a some evil, wicked king who did something truly atrocious, and like for sacrificing their own children. And and and this is but but here's something else. I'm reading in Chronicles, and uh man, somebody's gonna hear me say this, and they're gonna call me out on it. I forget which king it was, but you know, it's like every king, you know, it's that bat, you know, and they and they and they were wicked in the Lord's eyes, and they did wick, and they did, and they did wicked things in the Lord's eye. And then boom, you'd you know, you'd have Hezekiah show up and he's good, or Josiah, and you know, but then boom, we're back to being you know, Manasseh, whatever wicked, wicked, wicked. And then um there was one king, I can't remember, who was and but to your point, who was wicked in the Lord's eyes, and then he repented. Yeah, and then he ruled in a way that was pleasing to God, yeah. And then at the very end of his life, he he stumbled again. But there's this like and guess what? Out of all those kings, I'm the most fascinated with him. Why? Because I I I I don't want to become him, right? I don't want to at the end of my life to fall away, totally right, because I too was an evil, wicked person before Christ. Now I've come to know the Lord and I'm seeking to serve and love him, but I don't want to fall away at the end of my life. So I am fighting anyway. To to your point, is that's that is exactly who the Bible is written about and written to and written for. And we are doing a complete disservice when we do our stories and we don't reflect that truth. Absolutely.
Spencer Folmar:Absolutely, and they're all cautionary tales, and it's all incredible in spite of us that God uses us. It is all just pure, sheer, unearned grace that God uses any of us at all. It's wild, it's incomprehensible. I would never have the patience. And yet He does. And so we sh that's that's our that's grace, that's our religion, that is Christianity. And so we should be honest about that, most especially in our art. And the thing too about like art and hard faith and why I say like I don't make rules for filmmakers, like whenever I give a workshop, like at another film festival, when I'm talking about it at our hard faith fest. People always like, all right, so you're hard faith, right? So you're like PG13 R-rated. Well, can you do this? Can you do this? Can you do this? Can you do this? And I'm like, you have a Bible and you have the Holy Spirit dwelling inside you. You have a conscience, you hopefully should have a pastor. You know, you you have to make your own decisions. I'm not adding more roles on top of a very comprehensive what is known for being sufficient for living a godly life, Bible. I'm not adding anything on top of scripture on saying what you can and cannot do. If you feel like you can depict something that most Christian filmmakers feel like they can't depict, and you feel like you can do it for a biblical reason, and I might not feel comfortable with that, but you feel comfortable with that, and your conscience feels comfortable with that, that's okay. The thing I don't want to do is create more rules because I think most Christian filmmakers have already so many roles. It's like roles on top of roles on top of roles on top of roles on top of roles. You know, they become like the Pharisees. It's like you can't do anything but make these family-friendly films. And I think that unlike being maybe even like a pastor speaking from a pulpit to a general audience or being a Sunday school teacher, an artist can be provocative and show the world in a new way and expand people's horizons using art and using film to make people see their situation in a new way and hopefully turn hearts and that can be used in some way. And I and I think there's there's space in art to do that. So I don't make roles, people always asking for, well, can I do this? And I'll, you know, in private conversation, I'll say, you know, there's some there's certainly things I I will not do. I'm not saying anything goes. There's a lot of things I won't do, but I'm not making any more roles because you poor Christian artists already have way too many roles. You know, seek the Bible and seek your conscience and pray about it.
James Duke:Yeah, and I think that's that's exactly right.
Spencer Folmar:And that's a lot harder.
James Duke:Yeah, and it is, and that but that's what Paul tells us to do, whether we're making movies or making chocolate chip cookies, right? Or like he says that our our conscience has been saved and redeemed by by Christ. Therefore, don't go against your conscience because our conscience has been transformed and changed. And if you go against your conscience, then you're sinning. So what is your conscience telling you? Like what that's the good, but that's the that's what freedom in Christ is. Freedom in Christ is you've been redeemed, therefore, what's supposed to have happened is God has taken your heart of stone and replaced it with a heart of flesh, which means we're supposed to have new desires, new wants, and those desires have been baptized. And so it's like, what do we, you know, there's always carnal struggles. But if we are, if we are truly f attempting to follow Christ, then we can listen to that conscience because that conscience is is the Holy has been baptized by the Holy Spirit, and it's and and and and it can guide us in making those kind of decisions.
Spencer Folmar:And we'll do it imperfectly and we'll sin while doing it. Absolutely, and that's already forgiven.
James Duke:Absolutely.
Spencer Folmar:100%. 100%. We all have different pagan meats, you know?
James Duke:Yep.
Spencer Folmar:And if your pagan meat is something and my pagan meat is something else, I don't need to push you on your pagan meat. And my pagan meat, I will not offer it to you because you're not ready for it.
James Duke:That's fine. And by the way, that is something the edgy filmmaker needs to hear as well, which is the higher ideal here is not for you to be a great author filmmaker. Yeah. The higher ideal, according to scripture, is for you to love and care for your fellow man. Yes. And so can you still tell the story, that edgy story you want to tell, while still being a good caretaker of your fellow man and not causing them to stumble or lead them astray or or whatever. So we we've we've we've, I think, successfully discussed this helping a lot. I I want to go back though and talk a little bit about your films because yes, part of the kind of the birth of your hard faith. Uh concept was when I first heard of you for the first time, was actually I had not met you yet, but I had read the articles because you got a lot of press for it. It wasn't your first film, but it was your first kind of hard faith film called Generational Sins. And it was it was famous because you were the first. It became famous because you or maybe it's infamous, because you it was being touted as the first faith-based film with an F-word, right? Or the first Christian film with an F word, right? That's right. And that F word is not fire truck. So yep. So so so I mean, given this entire conversation that we've had, right? Yeah, I'm gonna ask you probably what everyone used to ask you back then, which is so why did you have to put an F word in it? Like why did that have to, right? Like what was in the making of that film and the and the distribution of that film and the promotion of that film? Like what what was what were you going for? Well, first of all, tell people tell everybody what the movie's about and then and where they can find it. And then and then what was your what was your goal for that film and and what was your reaction to the way it was marketed that way?
Spencer Folmar:Oh man, generational sins, where it all began. Yeah, there was a Hollywood Reporter article that came out and it traveled all the press, you know, and it said new faith-based film filled with f bombs. It only had one f bomb, it was not filled, had one F bomb. And that came out in May. Our film didn't come out in theaters until October, but literally within 48 hours of that article coming out, I got more emails than I'd ever received in my entire life put together in 48 hours. And 90% of those emails were from Christians saying you're going to hell for having a cuss word in your movie while also talking about Jesus.
James Duke:Really?
Spencer Folmar:Yep. Wow. Yeah. Wow. Yep. So it was 98% hate from Christians from all around the world, about 4,000 emails or more saying, like, you are the devil. And I remember right before we did that interview, which I did not know that interview would come out that way. And while we were seeking for distribution and all the faith-based distributors turned us down, my main fellow producer on that film was a man by the name of Thurman Mason, who I went and had a seminary class with. So I had known him since 2012 when I went to seminary. And even Thurman asked me, you know, if we just take out this one F-word, we can go to Pure Flix, we can go to, you know, Lifeway, we can go to all these people, and we'll at least have a shot at distribution. But if we keep this word in, no one will touch us. I remember we went to AFM, and there were so many Christian distributors, big, big Christian distributors who have been in the game for decades. And they said, I love the movie, and I love like I legit, you know, it's a good movie. It's it's not a high-budget movie, but it's a good story, good movie. And I love this movie, and I want this movie to exist because my grandchildren will watch this movie, but I cannot distribute this movie because we're not allowed to distribute films that have language in it.
James Duke:Wow. Wow.
Spencer Folmar:And I got this from the very, very top-tier Christian distributors that you and I know. And they said those exact words to me in person and by email. And I and I and we tried to find a distributor for over a year for this film, and we went with a secular distributor because no faith-based distributor would touch it. And I knew it would be easier, so much easier, just to take that word out and make it frick or anything else, or fire truck, or just or just remove it. The movie is called Generational Sins. It's about two brothers who return home to reconcile with their alcoholic and abusive father. It it is inspired by true events and stories that I know of. And the context in which it the singular F-word is said is that the younger brother is calling out the older brother who abandoned the family and abandoned the younger brother and the mother while the abusive father was still abusing the mom and the younger brother. And he says to the older brother, like, to the extent of like, where the F were you? Right. It's okay.
James Duke:You can you can say it on this podcast. It's okay.
Spencer Folmar:Yeah, he's like, you know, you you fucking left us, right? Like, so that's what Will says to his older brother. And so I knew that the word would be what everyone focused on. But the hundred and three minutes is not focused on that word. In fact, that scene and the way he pronounces it and says it so quickly, if you if you blink, you'll miss it. It's not like it's pronounced, it's not like it's like a big, you know, he he's a secular actor. Saying swear words is not a big deal to him. It's said naturally and quickly. But the purpose of him saying that word, just like you know, if it like a why a police officer would use profanity in a situation, is to try and wake up the audience and wake up the older brother, and wake up all of us and the church for the fact that we care a lot more about a made-up word than we do about an abusive man abusing his wife and children. And so the church is going to obsess and care and talk about a made-up word that did not exist when scripture was written and does not mean anything in other cultures, even and and and and that's the etymology of language. It means things, and pagan meat means things in different cultures. But we're gonna care so much about pagan meat that we will not care about the widows and the orphans and the abused and the addicts and the suicidal, no matter what. And so if I keep saying fuck to make someone give a damn about anything else besides their whitewashed tomb, I will do that and I'll take scrutiny because I want people to have a conversation about what the film is about. And it's not that four-letter word, it's about everything we don't talk about, it's about all the messiness in our church, in the pulpit, in the pews, that we never talk about and never address because we just don't want to get dirty. We don't want to be PG 13, we don't want to be R-rated, we just want to be clean, and we just want to listen to Rich Mollins' music. We don't want to know the man.
James Duke:Yeah. Yeah, that's really you know, that's uh first of all, I had no and you had not told me that story. I did not know that you received so much hate. I mean, I assumed you received hate, but I didn't realize it was not overwhelmed.
Spencer Folmar:It was insane. I've never received so much hate in my entire life. That's crazy. I've received a lot of hate in my life, but that was the most.
James Duke:Uh this goes back to you know what we were saying. To me, it's a spiritual maturity conversation. And and the argument that I have had with people is that what the pushback I get on that is uh a spiritually mature person doesn't use those words. And my response to that is no, a spiritually mature person doesn't get offended by those words. Yeah, you you might choose to use them or not use them, but you're not going to be offended by them. Why? Because you understand exactly what you said right there. You understand the greater things at play. Yeah. A spiritually mature person sees the greater things at play, the the deeper things at play that that that is merely a simple earthly cultural, quick ref just like a flash in the pan reflection that that a character, by the way, who a truthful performance, right? That's that's you know, you were constantly preaching, tell the truth, tell the truth, and you have an actor who's who's in the moment, telling the truth in that moment to that other character, and all of a sudden that becomes like you said, what an entire 103-minute film is about, which it's not. So you you survived that, and uh have gone on and done a few other kind of things. So the one after that, though, which is interesting, I remember you uh telling me about the film after shooting heroin. And you I remember you telling me in the development phase when you first kind of talk a little bit about that film. You what this is kind of your Pennsylvania route, you went back to shoot this in Pennsylvania. What was the what was the impetus for shooting heroin?
Spencer Folmar:I was making another movie about sex trafficking in Las Vegas, and I flew back home living in Los Angeles, was location scouting in Las Vegas, and I flew back home for another high school friend's funeral for an opioid heroin overdose. And as I had I went back home and I was talking to the you know the friends and family of the deceased, I learned that since I had been living outside of Pennsylvania for about 10 years now, that this opioid epidemic had taken over a lot of rural communities and small towns, especially in the Northeast, but across America and rural America and kind of lower income area, Rust Bow area where I come from here in Pennsylvania. And I, while I was in town, I talked to, you know, I caught up with high school friends and pretty much like every single person I talked to from my server to you know from my high school friends to relatives, everyone had one degree of separation of someone that had died from an opioid or a heroin overdose. And it was just, it was almost like the Black Plague. Like it was like it had taken like a fifth of the population, especially of young people. And this person who had passed away was a straight A student, was a friend of mine, someone that you would never imagine who would ever touch, especially, especially lethal illicit drugs. And so I just looked into a lot more, and I realized that a very pressing topic that I felt called to do in most of these films that I do for hard faith are films that I feel like I have to do, not necessarily films I want to do. Sometimes they are, but films I feel like I'm called and have to do. But was a film on the opioid epidemic to address it because I felt like there were so many people who were suffering in silence and shame. They lost a loved one from a drug overdose, but they weren't even allowed to grieve about it publicly because, you know, even if they were trade-age student or anything else, even if it was any first time they ever touched heroin and they died, they were not allowed to grieve publicly about their son or daughter, father, mother, aunt, or uncle who died because they died from a drug overdose. And somehow that's like an unforgivable sin. Somehow you're not allowed to grieve publicly about that or have a funeral about that or talk about that person ever again. So I wanted to make a film that addressed the stigma around the opioid epidemic and raised awareness about the opioid epidemic because it it's it affects one, it's one degree separation affecting all Americans. And it especially at that time when we made it back in 2018 and it came out in 2020 after a theatrical tour in 2019. We were the first film that tackled the modern opioid epidemic head-on.
James Duke:Wow. Wow. What was the reception like for the film? Because I know I think you released it during COVID, which was hard, right?
Spencer Folmar:Uh so the theatrical tour was great. In 2019, we did a 15-city tour, and we did cities that were particularly hit by the opioid epidemic, like Philadelphia and places like that. And it was really powerful. We would have members of the community and rehab counselors and you know, people who had lost loved ones and and you know, addicts that were in rehab talk about the opioid epidemic before and after the film. So this tour was a very heavy, weighty tour that we did through 15 cities for six months before the film was supposed to come out leading up to the release in April of 2020. And then we had a 500-screen release with AMC Independent that was already paid for, that was supposed to happen April 3rd of 2020. And then the pandemic happened, and then we got buried, and then it came out, and it came out to really positive reviews. Like Variety O and Gleiberman gave us a positive review, and LA Times gave us a good review, but it just got completely buried during the pandemic. No one wanted to talk about the opioid epidemic whenever everyone was stuck at home, you know, in a mask mandate.
James Duke:I I remember you you've kind of been through some challenges. I think some of it started in the in the pandemic. You one of the things I love about you, Spencer, and I tell people all the time, I'm like, if you if you are someone who's afraid of uh afraid of taking a risk, or if you're someone who's who who's who's who's who's fearful, if fear I was like, go beat my friend Spencer. It's not that Spencer doesn't have fears, it's that he I I I tell people sometimes, my hatred, I I hate snakes. My my thing, my but my thing is is when I see snakes, I I don't I get angry. Like my fear, so I get and so I find myself like getting I get angry and I want to go at the snake and like kill it. It's terrible, it's a terrible thing. Yeah, I feel like that's the way you are with fear. I feel like your approach to your approach to fear is you you when you become fearful, it almost like it it bursts something in you. It's like I'm gonna go burst through that fear. You're you you're one of the most entrepreneurial people I know. I'm literally talking to you right now, where you told me before we started, you're sitting in a an old church that you and your wife just bought because you thought maybe we can do something with it, right? Like you just kind of do that kind of stuff. And I remember back then you were in the midst of creating, you had, I think you had all you owned two movie theaters at that point. You were buying a third, you were launching a a drive-in movie theater experience. You were in the midst of you had all these investors, you were doing stuff, and the pandemic came. And you I don't know if you want to talk about that, but it's like not it, it was it was a challenging season for you.
Spencer Folmar:It's a challenging season for me. It's interesting. My wife and I have talked about a lot this year, and f and I'll and I'll just say this quick, real fun plug. The theme of Hard Faith Fest of 2026 in Los Angeles, June 25th through June 28th, is do not fear. Because I think fear is what sets us back the most, and it's the number one most commandment command in all of scripture is do not fear. It's said that there's over 365 instances of do not fear in scripture, one for every day of the year. And so God's people are not supposed to be fearful people. Yet, so often we live in fear, and I think that the church is often ruled by fear. A lot of the things that we do and we say, and the way we divide, and the way we try to rule is through fear, and even the way the art we make is fear-based instead of overcoming fear and not being fearful of man and not being fearful of so many things. And so I'm constantly trying to figure out how to overcome fear. And I have had I have this playlist on my phone. I have many curated playlists, and one of them is called Spencer 12.0. And there have been 12, it's like a 12th version of myself, and it's all me, but at each of those points, there has been a major setback or like a destruction of my life, either by myself or by others, or by God. And it happened even before I was walking with the Lord. But but yes, during the pandemic, I experienced an incredible death of self and ego because I was building an independent theater chain called Veritas Arts. And we had three historic independent theaters, and we were building a five-screen drive-in theater in Orlando, Florida, and I had investors, and I had been working on this for about five years, and it all fell apart in that two weeks to flatten the curve. You know, no new materials with films, and I had personally invested every penny I had saved to keep the theaters open and I kept paying employees because I thought this crazy weird virus thing would go away, and then I would continue this dream, and it didn't go away, and I went completely broke, not bankrupt, but should have, and lost everything that I had been working on for including all my savings of 10 years. I lost it all in a few months in 2020. And ironically, I thought 2020 was going to be my year. I went to New York City and watched the ball drop because I thought this is gonna be the roaring 20s. The economy was great. Gonna make the largest independent theater chain besides Adam O'Draft House, you know, the maybe even bigger than them. And I just love the theater going business. I had just opened my first restaurant, steak and seafood restaurant that was themed after cinema. I had really overexerted myself and everything went to a screaming halt, and I lost everything. And I had nothing. I didn't even have money to like fill up my gas tank. I lost everything. And in losing everything, I got really reconnected with the Lord. I got really back to basics. I realized how much emphasis I was putting on building sandcastles. And I met my wife. And now I have a beautiful two-year-old daughter.
James Duke:Well, you and but to be clear, like I want because I want the audience to take it is you you met your wife because this season in your life was so hard. You had no choice but to retreat. You had to retreat and you had to go be with family.
Spencer Folmar:I lived with my sister in Florida.
James Duke:Yeah, and you and and it was because of that she was like, come to church with me, right? Yep.
Spencer Folmar:Yeah, and I saw my wife in the choir at my sister's church. When I had lost everything. I've had a few that was like a big joke moment in my life. That was probably my biggest joke moment of my life. And and thank God, out of that low point, out of that valley, I met like my greatest gift in life, which is my wife.
James Duke:And now you have a two and a half old two and two two and a yeah, two year old.
Spencer Folmar:Yeah, two year, two and a half year old, yeah.
James Duke:Yeah.
Spencer Folmar:Little Margaret.
James Duke:Which is crazy. That's awesome.
Spencer Folmar:He's a firecracker and full of life and vibe.
James Duke:And which then leads me. To then you know, obviously another challenge. So in combination, so your latest film, which is available now on Prime and on Angel, or if everyone can watch, it's called Saint Nick of Bethlehem. It's a very sweet Christmas film. And and there were you know, I'm sure there were some highs in making that film, but then afterwards there was another, you know, very even more challenging than 2020 for you. And you and your wife had gotten pregnant with your second child, and there were some some serious, serious complications. And your second daughter was born, and but she only uh was only with us for for how long?
Spencer Folmar:Yeah, on on January 7th of this year of 2025, Mary Claire, our second daughter, after spending six weeks in the hospital when my wife's water broke early. She lived for seven hours and then passed away in her arms.
James Duke:Yeah.
Spencer Folmar:And my wife almost died that day, too, as a complicated surgery, and it did not go well, and nothing went well that day. And thankfully, my wife did live. And Mary Claire lived for seven hours and passed away. And then the day after we got out of the hospital, four days later, we buried Mary Claire in our backyard here and had a little funeral with the family.
James Duke:You know, one of so much of our conversation today has been about real life and the kind of the the that life is gutter balls, right? And here you are, the highs and lows, the ups and downs of life. And here you are on on set with uh making a very joyful Christmas movie. Right. Like probably easily the most joyful movie you've made. You agree? And yeah, and and and then and then and then your wife starts having these complications, right? And to go from that high to that low, what I know I know it's still fresh, it hasn't even been a full year yet, but what if any had been just some lessons or takeaways for that season in your life that you would share with us?
Spencer Folmar:So like I said, I converted to Christianity when I was 21. I'm 36 now. So I've been walking, stumbling, crawling with the Lord for 15 years. I've had other even before the pandemic, I've had other seasons where I felt like I was stumbling in the dark, trying to free find the light. When McKenna's water broke like days after Thanksgiving, and we began our six weeks in the hospital, you know, at the beginning it was very all the all the doctors were pretty much already saying, like, I'm sorry, like you're gonna lose the baby. And I felt I I I really wanted to be obviously an anchor of strength for McKenna, my wife, and for our family, and and be a man of great faith and have great faith, and be as optimistic and realistic, but as uh full of faith as possible. And so I and I heard everything the doctor said, and I just kept believing that God could do anything and the miraculous could happen. And miraculously, you know, McKenna made it another week, like the first 48 hours after the water broke. That's whenever Mary Claire should have passed away. And then we made it a week, and then we made it two weeks, and then we made it four weeks, and then she was viable, and then we made it six weeks, and her heart was stronger a week beyond her gestation period. Her weight was more than her gestation period. And by like the third week, because it was such a long haul, and we missed the theatrical tour last year for St. Nick and so many things, we we decided to make it public, which we're typically not that public with our private life, but we decided to make it public that we were living in the hospital because my wife, you know, her water broke, and we were praying for the best result for our baby, but we weren't sure if that best result is what was most realistic. And we had this amazing, quite the opposite of the release of that news article, but we had this amazing outpouring of love from people I hadn't heard of since elementary school. You know, it was like it's a wonderful life. It was just, I I heard from thousands of people saying that we're praying for you, we're praying for your wife, we're praying for Mary Claire, you know, you're in our bulletin and our church. And I've I've lived a lot of places, like I've moved like 40 times in my life and and and lived overseas quite a bit. But so, like international friends, crazy. And I was just like, I've never ever been prayed for, no one's ever been prayed for. I've never seen anything prayed for, I've never been part of something so prayed for in my life. Even at the hometown premiere for St. Nick last year, you know, it was a sold-out screening that my wife and I were supposed to attend, and there was like 600 people there. And the entire theater before the movie showed prayed for us while we're in the theater. While we're in the hospital and we watched our live stream. Wow, wow.
James Duke:I mean, my men, my men's group was praying. My men's group was praying.
Spencer Folmar:It's amazing. And this whole year, you know, I I we're we're like shopping at Walmart or we're walking around or anything, and people come up and they're like, We were praying for you. So, like this tremendous outpouring of love. And so I just I like you you could have shot me and I would have said she's gonna make it, Mary Claire's gonna live, and this is all gonna be okay. And uh yeah. So when you know, when she didn't live, when she flatlined, when she was placed in her arms and stopped breathing, it just it it hit me like a ton of bricks, and uh it was just so hard for a long time, you know, like those months after losing Mary Claire, and my wife was in really, really rough shape. I mean, she was cut twice and uh unable to walk or move or stand, you know, for three or four months. Like I can maybe remember after the funeral two or three days. You know, it was just it was just a it it was just a tremendous valley of grief that I have never experienced before. And I've and I've I'm prone to depression. I've had a lot of depression in my life throughout my life, but this was just something I've never experienced before. And I had a lot of wrestling with God, a lot of hard faith, a lot of wrestling with God about what happened, how did this happen, and what do I do now? And like how how do we continue? How do we get on? And it's just it's it's it's like a lot of things, a lot of ways God has answered my deepest, most challenging theological questions and petitions in life. I just keep asking him the same question over and over again, sometimes for months and sometimes for years. And I never get an answer, but somehow, somehow, I get peace. And that's what inexplicably happened after about four or five months. And what was even crazier is that you know, we announced these hard faith film festivals a year in advance, open up submissions as soon as the last one ends. And so we knew that Hard Faith Fest was coming up in July, and we were still in the throes of recovery. And McKenna was you know, had given away all her, you know, like weddings because she still couldn't walk. And you know, we were just this was our first public event out was Hard Faith Fest talking about hard faith, but also like talking about God, and we were really struggling, wrestling with God still, still am. And and it was it was it was it was surprisingly shockingly, even though like uh we can we considered canceling it, but it was a really healing, beautiful event, Hard Faith Fest in Hollywood this past year. And at the end, one of my mentees from the Hollywood Prayer Network prayed for McKenna and I and prayed about healing after losing Mary Claire to close out the festival. And so it's just been really kind of putting one foot in front of the other. It's been hard faith in a way that I talk about or have talked about in the past, but hadn't walked through in such a way and didn't anticipate walking through. I just felt like I I've been through a lot in my life, you know, much, much, much worse than the 2020 incident. And I just assumed, and my people that know me well assume like, you know, he's been through enough. Like, Job didn't have like multiple Job episodes, and so I just did not think this was in the bingo cards, but it was unexpected and devastating and still is. And you know, now we're coming up on our one-year anniversary, so we talk about it all the time. But right before I got on this podcast, McKenna and I were talking about it. And we are, you know, we did another festival in New York City just because we're so crazy and we really like doing Hard Faith Fest because I think it's really helpful for us too. But it's it's like if you if you had asked me what this year would be like in January or like even in December, November, whenever McKinnon's water broke, I would just be like, well, 2025, nothing good could have ever happened. Like there's there's not one day that the sun would rise. And, you know, thankfully, there have been some really great days and some really beautiful things and moments, and you know, life continues on. And I know one day, you know, she'll she'll be there. The crazy, the craziest thing about Saint Nick is that I started writing that script 10 years ago. And the movie, even though it's this great holiday Christmas movie, the movie is about one of my good friends from high school. He lost his only son, who was 20 years old. He lost his only son, and through his grieving process became Santa Claus to kids in the community that didn't have a father figure. And so I did a podcast with him recently, and I was like, you know, something that was always crazy about your life, Alan, is that like, you know, in shooting heroin, when I made that movie, I met so many parents that after they lost their kids, they just kind of stopped living, right? Like they just became showlers or ghosts of themselves, you know, they just they'd lost the will to live. And he said, and I said, What's so amazing about you is that you lost your only son, and it's like you do this Santa thing and you do this Christmas thing more than ever. And he said, like, you know, every day I know my boy is in heaven, and I'm I'm still his dad, like I'm still trying to make him proud. And he said, like, you have one daughter here, and you have a daughter in heaven, and like you gotta make her proud every day. So it's been insane. I don't know how my wife and I are here, and I don't know how we're doing anything, but in spite of all of it, God has been really good despite how damn hard it's been.
James Duke:Thank you for sharing that. I I know it's you know, it's still very much raw, and you're still figuring stuff out, and you're still asking those questions over and over again, which by the way, that is that is literally what we're supposed to do. We're supposed to fill our days asking those kind of questions, and God wants us to ask those kind of questions. But certainly as your friend, watching you from afar walk this out, it's been it's been beautiful to see you and your wife cling to each other and cling to Margaret and continue to be such a blessing to so many people. I I will say, you know, watching Saint Nick, so transitioning the the conversation a little bit to as we wrap up here, just about about your latest film, which is available now, Saint Nick of Bethlehem. This Christmas very sweet Christmas film is like you said, is very much about grief. And it is a driving force to the plot. And and I I I do think that you know Dan Lynn said to me one time that for him, film is therapy. I I I I think for you, I don't think it's it's it's lost on anyone that you know this tragedy that has happened after you make a film about a character who's lost their son and and how that has inspired so much of their life to give back and make a difference in other people's lives. I I do feel like not only is film therapy in many ways it can also be prophecy. And I and I and I do see that in a in a weird way, Spencer, you you are also that guy. And that you don't dress up as Santa Claus, but you make films that will actually bring healing and hope and and and in so many ways to so many to so many people. And you know, I just wanted you to know that.
Spencer Folmar:So thank you, brother.
James Duke:Yeah, so same nick is you can find it on you can find it on Angel, you can find it on Prime. And so you made it 2024. You it you had some screenings of it at the end of 2024, right? Christmas, but this is kind of 2025 was the the main Christmas season for it, right? And how how's the reception been on it so far?
Spencer Folmar:It's been really, really good, shockingly, and I just don't know how it's possible, and neither does Angel. It's for the last week, it's been the number one movie on Angel, which is really great. Yeah, and they emailed me and they're they they told me this, they alerted me to this, and they're like, This is surprising to us. And I was like, it's surprising to me too, because this is a low budget independent film, and it's not an Angel Original, and we did not have a big budget or a big marketing budget, but I'm really glad the audiences are liking it because we there's a lot of sweat equity in that movie, and it's very per it's very personal. Yeah, they like it.
James Duke:And and just real quick on that, you you know, you you you're credited as co-writer and co-director with with the star of the film, Daniel Robuck, who our audience would know him as, you know, he's been in tons of stuff as art, you know, from Lost and all these other great things that he's been in. The the the one of my favorites is is the Harrison Ford film, The Fugitive. He's in the future. Oh, yeah. But so what was that like? What's the process of write of of co-writing and co-directing something with someone? Was that challenging? Does that is that something you would ever do again? Like, what's your thoughts on that?
Spencer Folmar:It's interesting, it's really interesting. I it I have co-written scripts before, like Generational Sins. I co-wrote that with my cousin Dax, who plays the brother Will, who says the infamous F-word. So I've co-written quite a few scripts of solo written scripts I've never co-directed before. Dan and I have been connected for about eight years. He made a Catholic Christian movie in his hometown in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, about eight years ago. It was his first film he ever made called Getting Grace, and it was about death, and it was about an undertaker, and it's a really beautiful film. And he submitted it to a film festival I was doing back when I had the theater chain called Veritas Film Festival, named after the theater chain. And one of the categories for the film festival was Hard Faith before it had just its own Hard Faith Film Festival. And Dan grew up in the Lehigh Valley in Pennsylvania, and he submitted this beautiful movie, and it really is a beautiful film, and we connected then, and he wasn't able to attend it the festival because he was filming some sitcom or something. But we connected then, and we had this Pennsylvania connection, we had this Christian connection, so we got dinner at the Smokehouse in Burbank, as you do, both living out in LA at that time, and we just stay connected ever since. He was supposed to be the sheriff in shooting heroin, but he got another job then and wasn't able to be in the film. But we're we always just kept saying we're gonna work on something together. Then whenever we went to buy, my wife and I went to buy our Christmas tree from the parking lot in Burbank at Lowe's. I saw Daniel and he had a red coat on and he was uncut and unshaven, and his hair wasn't dyed. And I said to my wife, wouldn't he make a great Santa Claus? Because my wife and I had on our first, our very first date was on Christmas Eve five years ago this Christmas Eve. And I told her I was writing a Christmas movie called St. Nick. And so she really kicked my ass to finally finish that script and make the film happen. So that year I announced in like the summertime, I'm making Saint Nick. I don't know how, I haven't raised any money, but I finished the script and I'm gonna make it. So, you know, whenever we're buying our tree a couple months months later, I saw Danny in the parking lot, and I and so I went up to him and I said, Have you ever considered playing Santa Claus? And he said, It's like a lifelong dream role of mine. I said, Well, I'm gonna send you a script. I want you to consider playing the role. So he read the script and he loved the script, but he said, you know, instead of setting this in Central PA, where I I'm from, he said, You should really set it in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, which is the very first Christmas city in America. You know, it predates the country as well. And that's where I'm from, and I've made movies there, so I have like a crew there. And he said, like, you know, I'll I'll let me take a pass at it and adapting it to Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. I'll I want I have some ideas for some additional characters and some more comedy because it's so depressing. I think we need some comedy and levity. And I'm really good at that. And I know you're really good at the depressing stuff. And he was a big fan of shooting heroin. And so he he did a pass on the script. And I had no idea, you know, because I I thought the script was perfect how it was. And I read his version. And Saint Nick, to be honest, it was a real struggle. And I did write it for like nine years because it's a Christmas movie, it's a genre on top of a genre, and people expect some Christmas elements. And I had written a very depressing movie about a guy losing his you know son and everything else. And the the first version I had was much, much sadder. And Dan's like, I need to add some levity to this, like a little bit of a spoonful of sugar helps medicine go down. And so his version he wrote added a lot of the humor and the comedy and the brother and some additional characters. And then my version was like the romance and the mom and stuff like that, and obviously losing the son and the church and the theology. And so those versions together became Saint Nick of Bethlehem, set it in his hometown. He came on as a producer, helped produce it with me, fundraise with me, and then came on as a co-director in his hometown, where he's made a couple films. And then we and then we danced together for two years.
James Duke:And and how does one co-direct? What would you what was that process like?
Spencer Folmar:It's interesting. I had no idea because I've seen it happen, you know, like everything everywhere all at once. Like that's a co-directing, they want an Oscar for it, but I didn't know how that worked out practically. I'd heard rumors of it. It's also really interesting because unlike everything everywhere all at once, none of those directors were the lead. Danny was the lead. So it's like, you know, an actor is an actor. And when when you're acting, you really want them to act. You don't want them thinking about everything else, the lighting and everything else. As co-directors, what I would try to do, and I don't think Danny and I have said this out loud, and you know, I I would hope that he would agree with this, but what I tried to do is we would walk through everything, you know, in rehearsal. We would walk through everything in the setup and the lighting with the DP with the lens, everything. Stand in for him. And then he would take off when he was in the scene, when he was the lead in the scene, the main character in the scene. I would really try to have him take off his directing hat. And trust me, because he has to now act, right? Like it's hard to direct, act, and produce at the same time. He still was directing, he was still co-directing. It's not like he gave up that rule or that credit. But I think even as we continued to work together, it was a it it became a four and a half week shoot altogether, broken up into two periods. But as the production went on, and you know, I'm I'm I'm you know, he has I don't know, you know, he's worked with Andy Griffith and and has worked on everything, and I and and I'm an independent filmmaker, half his age. As we continue to work together, we began to trust each other more, coming at this at different perspectives, different angles, different intuition. And I learned a lot from him, and I think he would say the same. And by the end, by like the last two weeks, we really just like had a shorthand dancing in tandem. Like it really worked incredibly be beautifully. And I don't think it could work that well with everyone, but it worked really well with Dan and I. And I learned a lot from Dan too, because like even though I feel extremely old just from putting so many miles on this vessel, I know Dan has this old school Hollywood experience that you know is hard to even get today, just because Hollywood has changed so much and has just been working in the industry since he was 19. You know, he's been working in the industry for 45 years. And so I I I honestly did learn a lot from him. Learned a lot about comedy and humor, which I've never touched. Learned a lot about you know, storytelling and story writing and and how to work with actors, and you know, it it was a really symbiotic relationship. And I think the very best possible version of Saint Nick for audiences and for telling that story well came out of that collaboration.
James Duke:That's really good. I well, I I think that it's fun to see you know, whenever I hear co-directing, I'm like, I don't how does that work exactly? But then the fact that he's the lead and he does a really good job in the film. I thought, okay, well, I can maybe see why if he's acting and you're behind the camera, you know. But but I love hearing that his influence on you too, because he has he's been in everything for for years and everything, yeah, tremendous.
Spencer Folmar:And even just like working with Andy Griffith, you know, for like you know, seven years on MATLOC. I mean, it's just like you know, that's that's that's pretty amazing. That's cool.
James Duke:Spencer, this has been such a joy, and you I I always I always love talking to you, and I just feel like you you're able to see things in a way that I think is very clarifying for other people and and and the ways in which you're able to communicate it as well. So congratulations on St. Nick of Bethlehem. Hope things work out for other stuff I'm sure you got going on. If you would you want to tell people about just real quick the Hard Faith Film Festival and what's going on with that, how they can be involved?
Spencer Folmar:Absolutely. So go to hardfaith.org, sign up for our newsletter. We're doing a lot of stuff. We're doing more and more stuff. I can hardly keep up with all the stuff that we're doing. But the biggest thing that we do every year is Hard Faith Fest in LA. It's going to be from June 25th through June 28th. It's a four-day event. It's taking place in the heart of Hollywood. We have outgrown all three of the venues that we've used previously. We've outgrown last year's venue. We're going to announce the new venue, which is very exciting here soon. But you can submit your screenplay, your short film, your feature film, your documentary, your student film, your experimental film at HardfaithFest.com or at filmfreeway.com backslash hardfaith.
James Duke:I'm always out of town. You can always do it in the summertime when I'm at the time. I know. Maybe this year I'll be in town. I don't know. We'll see. Um congratulations on everything, buddy. I'm super proud of you and and God bless you. And what we always do at the end of our podcast is I always pray for our guests. Would you allow me to pray for you?
Spencer Folmar:Yes, please. Thank you, brother.
James Duke:Heavenly Father, we just thank you so much for the chance to be here with today with my brother Spencer. I'm just so grateful for him, grateful for just his heart for you, the way you have transformed him and reshaped him and remolded him over these past 15 years. And so many seeds that you've planted in him are coming to bloom. And it's just a beautiful thing to see. And we're we're just thankful for that. God, I just pray a blessing upon his marriage, his family, his sweet daughter, and everything they've got going on, not only in Pennsylvania, but here in LA. And just pray a blessing upon his future projects and just pray you'd go before him and continue to keep him courageous for you and to fight through those fears. And I just thank you for this opportunity to speak today. And we pray this in Jesus' name and your promise as we stand. Amen. Thank you for listening to the Act One podcast. Celebrating over 20 years as the premier training program for Christians in Hollywood. Act One is a Christian community of entertainment industry professionals who train and equip storytellers to create works of truth, goodness, and beauty. The Act One program is a division of Master Media International. To financially support the mission of Act One or to learn more about our programs, visit us online at Act OneProgram.com. And to learn more about the work of Master Media, go to MasterMedia.com.