Act One Podcast
Act One Podcast
Directors Phil Cunningham and Brent Dawes
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Act One Podcast - Episode 48 - Interview with Directors Phil Cunningham and Brent Dawes of the new film, DAVID.
From the songs of his mother’s heart to the whispers of a faithful God, David’s story begins in quiet devotion. When the giant Goliath rises to terrorize a nation, a young shepherd armed with only a sling, a few stones, and unshakable faith steps forward. Pursued by power and driven by purpose, his journey tests the limits of loyalty, love, and courage—culminating in a battle not just for a crown, but for the soul of a kingdom. Released by Angel Studios, DAVID is in theaters everywhere beginning December 19th, 2025.
Phil Cunningham’s passion for storytelling was ignited and fueled as a young boy growing up in the wild frontier of Zimbabwe, where day-to-day life was often interspersed with larger-than-life characters and fantastic stories. Phil was struck by the incredible power of stories to impact society and in particular the power of animation to cross race, culture, age and gender barriers better than any other medium. Over the last 25 years, Phil together with Jacqui, has built Sunrise Animation Studios in Cape Town, South Africa. The studio’s mission statement is “Inspire Through Story".
Brent Dawes has spent over two decades as the Creative Lead at Sunrise Animation Studios, where (among many other projects) he created the Jungle Beat series and directed Jungle Beat: The Movie, which Netflix acquired in 2021, where it ranked in the Top 10 movies across all genres in its first 3 weeks. Dawes is the writer and co director of the Young David Shorts and the David animated feature film.
Sunrise Animation Studios is a full-service animation studio based in Cape Town, South Africa. Founded by Phil and Jacqui Cunningham, Sunrise has a passion for quality storytelling, and a belief that film and TV are the most powerful mediums for story in the modern era. The company’s mission is to inspire, entertain and enchant audiences worldwide, providing the finest in family entertainment. Sunrise is the production partner for Jungle Beat, a series of high-quality animated short episodes that have become immensely popular worldwide, having been broadcast in over 180 countries and across a range of media platforms including TV, cinema and in-flight entertainment. The brand’s YouTube channel has over 11 Million subscribers and 5 Billion views. Sunrise were also the production provider for the hit animated feature Jungle Beat: The Movie, and the Jungle Beat 2 The Past sequel, released in 2024. Sunrise is also a world leader in sports mascot creation and branding, and partners here include The Welsh Rugby Union, Juventus Football Club, The English Rugby Football Union, and current world champions, South African Rugby. "Story" and "people" remain at the heart of everything the studio does.
The Act One Podcast provides insight and inspiration on the business and craft of Hollywood from a Christian perspective.
To me, one of the one of the real things that emerged out of the movie was David's style of lead leadership versus Saul's. You know, you got this fear-based leadership or or faith and love-based leadership. So that you know, and and I think why now is because the world needs examples of servant-hearted, shepherd-hearted leaders. So I think it's incredibly timely for the story to come about now.
James Duke:This is the Act One podcast. I'm your host, James Duke. Thanks for listening. Please don't forget to subscribe to the podcast and leave us a good review. My guests today are Phil Cunningham and Brent Duncan. They're the filmmakers behind the new animated film David. When the giant Goliath rises to terrorize a nation, a young shepherd armed with only a sling, a few stones, and unshakable faith steps forward. Pursued by power and driven by purpose, his journey tests the limits of loyalty, love, and courage, culminating in a battle not just for a crown, but for the soul of a king. Released by Angel Studios, dates in theaters everywhere beginning December 19th. Be sure to check it out. Over the last 25 years, Phil Cunningham, together with his wife Jackie, have built Sunrise Animation Studios in Cape Town, South Africa. Sunrise has a passion for quality storytelling and a belief that film and TV are the most powerful mediums for story in the modern era. Brent Dawes has spent over two decades as the creative lead at Sunrise Animation Studios, where, among many other projects, he created the hit Jungle Beat series and directed Jungle Beat the movie. I had a good chat with Phil and Brent over Zoom on their process for making the David film and the inspiration behind it. I hope you enjoy. Phil and Brent, welcome to the Act One podcast. It's good to see you guys.
Speaker 4:Thank you. Great to be here. Thank you. Great to be here.
James Duke:You guys are the filmmaker, the filmmaking team behind the new film, David. Really looking forward to seeing the film. It's coming out in theaters everywhere December 19th. And I have been tracking with you guys on this project for a long time. I was just mentioning right before we started recording, and we have a mutual friend who's a producer on the project who I knew years ago. I remember when she came to work with you guys. Now, Phil, how long ago did you actually begin working on the film, David?
Phil Cunningham:So that's amazing. So the I'll tell you when the vision started and when we started working, because there's there's a bit of a gap there. But I keep saying it's over 30 years ago, but someone reminded me that it's actually 37 years ago. So that's where the vision started. I'll quickly tell you about that, and then I'll tell you where we actually started on the film itself, where Brent started writing the script was 2015, which was 10 years ago. But just going back to that moment, it was an incredible moment just canoeing down a river in Africa called the Zambezi River. You could canoe four days, five nights, wouldn't see a human being. And it was just under the stars and watching the elephant and the buffalo and the lion. For me personally, I just fell in love with God. It was like this incredible, adventurous, expansive character. I was like incredible, not an austere, boring, you know, angry personality, but someone just so beautiful. And I was reading David's story, and it says in Acts, I found in David's son of Jesse a man after my own heart. And I wasn't in the film industry at that point, but it was like, wouldn't it be awesome if we could tell a movie that would just give people a glimpse of God's heart? So that's where the idea was birthed. At that stage, I still had live action in my mind, by the way. But anyway, to finally answer your question, 10 years ago, Brent started writing the first draft of the script.
James Duke:I'm just curious why there be why David? Why David, why now?
Phil Cunningham:Yeah, I think for me, James, the why David was linked back to that vision at that moment, which was David had this beautiful heart, which is a heart after God's own heart. So I think why David? Because it gives us a glimpse of God's heart. The other reason why David is just he was far from perfect, like all of us. You know, he's human and he was fallible, as we well know. But he had this beautiful thing that he lived, he held we have the saying, hold nothing back. David held nothing back. When he was fearful, he spoke out his fear. When he had questions for God, it was like, why God? You'll see in the movie this beautiful song, Why God, you know. And actually, yeah, so that's that's just so beautiful. When he was happy, he spoke out his happiness. So we felt he's gonna be an incredibly inspiring character to our generation because just come and just live wholeheartedly. You don't have to be perfect to live wholeheartedly. And yeah, yeah, and also I think so. Why, David, it gives you a glimpse of God's heart, like this heart of adventure as well.
Brent Dawes:Yeah, yeah, also I think for the why now, the to me, one of the one of the real things that emerged out of the movie was David's style of lead leadership versus Saul's. You know, you got this fear-based leadership or or faith and love-based leadership. So the you know, and and I think why now is because the world needs examples of servant-hearted, shepherd-hearted leaders. So I think it's incredibly timely for the story to come about now.
James Duke:Yeah. Wow, that's really good. So, how did you guys connect? Because if I remember correctly, uh is it Sunrise Studios? You guys you were creating, you've been creating stuff for years. And and Brent, have you been working with Phil for years at Sunrise?
Brent Dawes:Yeah, so Phil started the studio, it was 1998, eh, Phil? Like 1998, thereabouts, starting starting on a stop motion animated feature film. And the way that that came about was he was just let's make a movie and got a bunch of people who are keen. My brother-in-law was working on it. I was doing advertising at the time, copywriting, and my brother-in-law said, Brent, you want to come and animate on this movie with us? And I was like, That sounds like fun. So I I jumped on board the sunrise train, met Phil and said, I'd love to come. So joined as an animator. No one in that movie had any experience in animation, but we all had a similar excitement and desire and passion to do something together. It was kind of like a bunch of, well, even though we didn't know each other at the time, it was a bunch of friends getting together and making something, you know. That was 25 years ago, and that's when like I really felt like a kindred spirit with Thor. We sort of had a similar idea of I think we'd we'd observed so much media in the past and so much Christian media, and we're like, why does Christian media have to be so meh? Why can't it be why can't it be spectacular and world-beating, you know? And so so that was the start of that journey. So it's 25 years we're working together, and the culmination is is putting out David, uh, yeah, directing David together.
James Duke:Phil, the you guys have been creating content for families and for kids for years. Uh the the I the idea of making a feature film or the or the or the shift to make a feature film is significant, right? Like the the upscale is pretty big. What all did that include? I mean, like, did you have to bring in all kinds of different animators? Like what what what was that like to shift from what you had been creating to to working on a feature, feature-linked animated film?
Phil Cunningham:No, thanks, James. That's a great question. I think just in our mind, we always had David in our mind. And I'll quickly say what we saw David being was an arc de triumph. So we were walking through Paris, Jackie, my wife, and I, we're looking up at the Arctic Triumph, looking up at the scale of it, the attention to detail, and thinking as filmmakers, there's plenty of apartments and office blocks in Paris, so you could just churn money and make buildings, or you can try and make an arc de triumph that's a beacon of inspiration to our generation. So that's where we were going. But we also knew you had to crawl, walk, run. It's like in sport, you don't go from playing, I don't know how the US sports system works exactly, but in South Africa, club, provincial, international, you've got to work your way through. So we intentionally waited on David and we started on other projects. Just to say, Brent was the creator of a beautiful brand, which still exists to this day. It's actually got 12, 13 million subscribers now on YouTube called Jungle Beat. We did a whole lot of scenes. Yeah, but then we did do two feature films, um, which Brent directed, the first one, Jungle Beat the Movie, which is actually on Netflix, and then we did another one, which is just about to come out called Jungle Beat to the Past. So there were two, besides all the TV series we were doing and a lot of the sports work we were doing, there were two smaller feature films we did do before David. Having said that, it was still a massive ramp up, even though we co-walked run away into there. And I think the way we tackled that, just to quickly say it was Michael Dull's biography says, always work with people smarter than yourself. So we had this beautiful team here in South Africa in the studio I'm sitting in. But what we did in the end on David, we worked with over 400 people in 32 countries around the world. And we just really went to look for who's the best head of story in the world, who's the best that we could find, the best director of photography. So, like our head of story was 20 years at Pixar. He came to work here, still here to this day. Many examples like that. Mixing experience with the youth and talent of our studio that was growing and vibrant and colorful, but just bringing in. So I think the big thing on David was that talent is awesome and is a big part of David, but also mixing that with real talent. Um, I mean with real experience, yeah.
James Duke:Yeah. That's fantastic. How how many people would you say worked on the film, David?
Phil Cunningham:So saying it's just over between four and five hundred over 32 countries over the course of the project, yeah.
James Duke:Wow. Wow. Wow, wow, wow. So I haven't seen the film yet. We've got tickets, my kids were gonna be seeing it this weekend. The the animation looks spectacular. Like I I just just all the trailers and clips that I've seen. And like I said, I I've been watching it I I feel like you guys were releasing clips of this thing years ago. Like I feel like I've been watching how much has the the actual animation itself, the quality of it, how much of it has evolved from when you first started 10 years ago or so to now, would you say?
Phil Cunningham:I think Brent must answer that. And Brent, maybe you can just talk about the young David episodes.
Brent Dawes:Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, so we did a uh it was a significant leap for us to to start making David because up until that point we really had only done monkeys and elephants and animals and this and that quite, you know, and and David really is in a different zone. So we did a demo in 2017 of David, which was a five-minute short, sort of proof of concept, which which was like, look, if we say we can do this, let's show that we can do it. And it was a tool that Phil needed to try and get funding going. And it absolutely leveled up our studio significantly. But even between that demo and then what the feature film is, there's another like almost casmic leap, you know. And when we made the demo, we thought, oh, this is fantastic, let's carry on making the movie. Unfortunately, there was a sort of built-in break of COVID, which kind of put a stop to things a little bit, which uh just allowed us to again get a little bit more, a little bit more experience, build a pipeline a little bit more before we actually really kicked into it. But what was another wonderful sort of built-in on-ramp was during that sort of hiatus, Phil managed to get the go-ahead to make five young David shorts, which was wonderful for us because it was it it would it allowed us to play in the world of David, not as high stakes as the full feature film budget, as a full hundred-minute film. Five mini stories that allowed us to send characters through the pipeline, environments through the pipeline, stories through the pipeline, get a sense of the feel, the tone, and what have you. So we we had that lovely sort of ramp in. So by the time we got to the feature film, we had 25 minutes under our belt and we're and we're flying, you know. And I must give credit as well to Dan Barker, who is the animation director. When we briefed him, we're like, Dan, this is this is it now. Like, this is like we we aren't because he's worked with us before, and it's like, Dan, we are aiming for a triple A class world-class animation here. We need you to find the right people, pull out all the stops. We don't know what all the stops are, but pull them out. And so, and he really, and the the wonderful thing about him is he he grabbed hold of that, he believed, he believed us in what we were looking for, and he and he and he went for it. And and the team so responded to the call, they were like, this is fantastic. We seldom get the chance because we also gave them the responsibility and ownership of that. Obviously, we directed them in terms of performance and timing and all this or that. But once we were happy, we let them carry on tinkering and they said, we never get the opportunity to do this, you know, and we let them ultimately finally do all the additional polish. And they said, Brent and Phil, you've got no idea what this does for us, to be able to have the freedom to do this, not have to get a director to prove this polish. So I think it's got this level of like unbelievable level of polish because we we really gave ownership to them and allowed them to do what animators do.
James Duke:And I and I and I love hearing that because so much of the creative process is tinkering, right? Like uh all creatives have that sketchbook, right? We have that that or that little journal where we're always jotting things down, we're trying things out. But as you guys are fully aware, at this level, that becomes very expensive. And so the fact that you guys would be able to have a pipeline, if you will, that allows them to test, experiment, try things, refine things is quite remarkable. And I think it shows. I mean, once again, I just I'm just looking at the clips that have been released. It it it it really is I always enjoy when I see stuff and I think to myself, this doesn't just look competent, this looks fantastic. Like it looks like uh real artistic vision has been has been has been created here. So bravo to you guys on that. So can you tell can you tell our audience, either one of you, what's the story? Obviously, we you know, people who are familiar with the Bible, David David's a pretty big story. So your movie's called David. What what part of David's story? Uh, if we go see this in theaters, what tell us what this movie is about?
Phil Cunningham:I think Brent must answer. No, Brent, you must answer that. You're the script writer. So Okay.
Brent Dawes:Okay, I was gonna let Phil answer because Phil was the one who gave me the parameter of what he wanted in the in the movie. He sort of gave me the timeline. He's like, Brent, I want it from Shepherd to when David becomes king of Judah. And so it was an incredible challenge doing that because Shepard, Shepherd, David, and Goliath is all of two chapters, and then there's another 40 or 42 chapters of David after that. So really trying to figure out okay, so we we did a timeline of of all everything in David's life that's in scripture. And what I did is I I just took a marker and circled what I felt was was important and necessary to get him to king, and then drew around everything else. So there's a lot of omission. And also as we wrote, it revealed itself to us that okay, this is actually a story about it's about David and Saul. It's not David and Goliath, you know. I mean, it's about David and it's about his relationship with God. But the key antagonist actually is Saul, who's a very complex character, and that helped us to go, okay, we we we're not gonna deal with David's wives, you know. That's because it's not a we're not telling a love story, and that we found as we ever, whenever we tried to do that, it complicated and it it drew the attention away from David's relationship with God and the conflict with Saul. And it's like that's not what we're doing here. There's enough animated love stories out there. This is one about a man after God's heart and these two differing leaders. So yeah, so it's Shepherd to King and his relationship with Saul as a primary one, and also his relationship with his mother as a secondary as a secondary one. Yeah, just yeah, but I can capture that.
Phil Cunningham:I can dive in the one thing, James, about his mother. For just he was really inspired by my mother because when we were like 14, 16 years old, she was saying, Phil, by your age, David was fighting Goliath, Daniel was in the lion's den. What are you doing? You need to get out there and have an adventure, you know. And we really this movie, I feel, and in the Psalms, David says, I serve you as my mother did, and his great-grandmother was Ruth. So we know obviously his mother had a big part to play in his life. So, as a as an aspect, as one of the ingredients in the film, she plays a big role. We really hope that moms, as they watch this, feel very like a big shout out to moms and mothers around the world as they watch this movie. That what a massive role mothers play in inspiring the world and just making the world what it is. So that's a small thing. The other thing which I think Brent did brilliantly, and always has a team around him, but we did five trips to Israel. We really wanted the film to be entertaining, it has to be entertaining, but we also want it to be deeply authentic. So, like, for example, if you take comic book fans, you can't take Superman's cape and put it on Spider-Man, they're gonna get upset. And obviously, the faith-based audience is way more passionate than comic book fans. So we want the movie to play broader than the faith-based audience, but we also want to really, when the people from the faith-based audience watch it, they're like, wow, this is deeply authentic and connected to the source material. And I think for Brent, that was that's why it took a lot of years because to keep it highly entertaining and and like engaging, but also do that as well. It's easy to sacrifice one without the other. And a huge respect to Brent in the end for the script he pulled off. Yeah, it's much easier writing about monkeys and elephants.
James Duke:You don't, you don't, you don't have a lot of zoologists yelling at you about monkeys don't talk. What are you talking about? Yeah, yeah, but you know what, you do bring up an interesting point. I I know that you know, any any any time someone takes on any Bible story, it's going to be scrutinized probably more than anything else. One, because obviously the Bible is the best known, you know, best-selling best-known book and all, but it's also it's it's also more than a book to us, right? Like it's the living word of God. And so there I imagine, Brent, there was a bit of a sacredness to wanting to be careful. What was your kind of creative process of how do I capture the truth and essence of honoring the scripture while also doing things and having characters say things or react in certain ways that maybe isn't recorded in scripture? What was your creative process behind that?
Brent Dawes:That's a really, really insightful and good question. And I'll I'll answer in a few ways. The first is I think right from the beginning, just recognizing the the call. So Phil had the vision, and Phil has asked me to write this, and there is funding for it and there's time for it. So it's like surely then I will be equipped to to write this. Do you know what I mean? And and not and not to sort of be afraid within that, to sort of respectfully go, okay, I I I'm gonna trust that I'm being called for a reason, so I'm gonna I'm gonna go, you know. And then within that, also a real a real acknowledgement and confession that I don't know what's right. You know, scripture can be read in so many different ways. This is 3,000 years old, there's so many translations. The truth is, I'll I'll have an idea, but I can't I can't die on that. You know, so so whenever I was right, so I leaned quite heavily on Phil. I'd say Phil was the spiritual compass. And whenever he felt, I would always just check with him. But I I think we had a very similar sense. If ever I was unsure, I'd just check with Phil. But I would also, the the way I've felt that this movie, like Phil and I have felt more like custodians rather than creators. Again, like I'd say the monkey and elephant ones, I write, I own those, and I will, you know, I can explain. This one, this is not our story. You know, we are we are almost for a moment it's ours and until we put it out in the world. So whenever I was writing, I would honestly just try and get myself out of the way and ask, what is what does the story need? What is the story that you want to tell here? Because I think if if I could get out of the way, there's way more room for more depth and complexity to come into the story and to reach way more people. You know, Phil and I didn't come about this with an agenda or wanting to preach to people. We we we just want to present this incredible story and allow it to speak to people where they are, you know. So there were many to Phil saw me many walks up a mountain of confessions of I don't know what's meant to happen in this moment, but I trust I'm here for a reason and I trust it'll come. And it always did, you know, often uncomfortably late, but it came. But I the thing is that I always understood, I had a I had an inner sense of when something was right or not. And I and I would, and Phil was incredible in trusting me with that. Because I would say to Phil, because there was a number of times he was like, Phil, like Brent was like, No, Brent, this is this is good, like this is fine, like the opening of the movie. And I was like, Phil, it's not there yet. And he's like, No, but it's working. I was like, Trust me, Phil, there's something else. He's like, Okay, go, go. And then I would find that he'd be like, Okay, I see. Well done, you know. So there was a lot of trust. Yeah.
James Duke:That's awesome. That's wonderful. Phil, you sound like a pretty good guy, and he's talking pretty highly about this guy.
Phil Cunningham:So we learned from the journey, God's the good guy, yeah.
James Duke:Yes, he is the good guy, yes. Okay, so let me ask the kind of the obvious question, and you guys have probably answered. So I apologize if you've probably answered this with other people asking you. But David's this this is a kids' movie. This is clearly a family animated film. So we want the whole family to come see it. We want grandparents, we want kids, we want adults, we want teenagers to come see this film. However, as all of us on this call know, that's the story of David in the Bible is at times brutally violent, and and there's lots of kind of intensity, obviously, because he's at war in many parts of his story. How did you handle even the story of David versus Goliath is a bit, you know, when you read it in scripture, it's a little bit different than what we remember from our Sunday school. So how just to give parents a heads up, bringing their, you know, to come and watch this film. How did you guys approach those more challenging parts of David's story?
Phil Cunningham:I think I can dive in, Brent. So I think the one beautiful thing about David's story in this regard that made it easier is the music, because we know he wrote half the psalms in the Bible. So we know authentically he was a songwriter, a musician. In fact, he calls himself Israel Singer of Songs. And music just brings such a beautiful dimension to a film. But like for Brent and I, I think both of us, it we we loved it because it's so authentic to who he was, and it's a story about a musician. You're not just like shoving or songs into because you needed like teapots to sing at that point, you know, whatever. It's like it's like so. I think there's we're using music, you can bring across a lot of emotion and a lot of depth and dimension through because music really shows you the spirit and the soul of what's going on. So that's one element that's beautiful, and then the rest, we really try to walk the line of making it exciting and adventurous, but we want kids to watch it, you know. So don't want to give a spoiler on the Glyph scene, but it's it's an epic battle, but it's definitely watchable for kids, you know. And we had to really iterate, and I think that's where the storyboarding process comes in. We did, I can't remember how many animatics we did, Brent, maybe five or six of the whole movie, and we'd sit and watch it, and and you'd pick up if things are playing too violently or appropriately, or and and so storyboarding and animation is a massive part of just getting what you talked about in the right zone so that adults can watch. And we've done some test screenings, and it's been really wonderful watching it's like the adults are loving it as much as the kids, but the kids are not walking out scared either. But Brent, I don't know if you want to add to that.
Brent Dawes:Yeah. I think there was it was it was trying to understand what is important in this this part of the Bible. Is it is it important that we see people being killed with the sword, or is it important that we get the sense that there was a victory here? You know, and and so that's that's more the angle that we took. That that God gave a victory here. We're not we're you know, and we're not showing we're not showing uh swords and clashes and this and that. There's there's the impression of battle. Certainly the the Goliath moment is hopefully what you'd expect. And and I'll I will give a bit of a spoiler because a lot of people ask us, like, are you gonna show him cutting off Goliath's head? You know, we we cut before that might happen, you know, so we don't see that happen. We don't give the impression that it will happen, but as a nod to that, you will you'll see a tapestry image later in the movie where David is standing on the fallen body of Goliath and Goliath doesn't have a head. So it's like, look, we know, you know, and it and it's depicted there, but we're not gonna show that because that's that's a step too far for us. Yeah.
James Duke:I thought I I was wondering if they were gonna, Angel was gonna release alternate movie posters with him holding up the glass. Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
James Duke:No, no, it's good. Uh so when when you're when you guys are thinking about casting and you're thinking about okay, how are we gonna bring this film to life as you're working on the animation? How early on did you begin the process of thinking about casting and stuff like that? Because I I I think you said something really interesting there, Phil. What a what a great opportunity to make a musical, right? Because David is, you know, the warrior poet. He was the musician, and he's the so it makes complete sense that the author of most of our songs is going to be singing. So but with that comes casting, right? So when did you guys start the process of thinking about how you would cast it and how did you eventually land on this uh great cast?
Phil Cunningham:I'll I'll kick it off, and then Brent can pick it up and run with it. I think the thing about casting is particularly in animation, is you know, you you're recording the voices before you animate. So while you're world building and character building, simultaneously at the early stages, you are going about your casting. And also your casting is crucial because it's going to bring the spirit to the heart of the character. I mean, when you watch the movie, there's so many great performances, but just take Saul, for example, the guy who did his voice, an incredible performance. But he also influenced how we animated and how we went about things, filled the character, you know. So you start your casting very early because it you need it technically for the animation, but you also want to find the heart and the spirit of it, of your characters. Yeah, but Brent was it played obviously a huge role in in the final casting. So, Brent, yeah, you pick it up from there.
Brent Dawes:Yeah, it was it was early. Well, you don't want to go too early. Production needs to have started, you know, because you don't want people's voices to change or things like that. And casting and animation is a twofold thing. One is it's the look, so it's concept art to get the look of the character, and then two, it's the the voice actors, and they need to you know to work together. So having the concept art helps us actually to find the voice because you're able to give that concept art to our casting agents and then so that people can see what they look like. But the the real key thing that we wanted with David was to find the people that sounded like our characters rather than worrying about celebrity or trying to fit something in for a marketing point of view. It's like we absolutely wanted when people watch the movie that they believe that they are listening to David and Saul and Nitzavet, not hearing you know, Morgan Freeman playing a role or anything like that. And I and I really think that we've achieved that. So when you watch it, it's like these are the characters, and that was really important. And so we had three casting agents in three countries, and one Ned Lot in the States, we had Vic Vicky in in the UK, and then Efrat in Israel, really just trying to uncover all the the best people for us, and we were thrilled with our cast. And obviously, with Phil Wicking coming swooping and right at the end, because we couldn't find our adult David that could get had to hit the sweet spot of singing and acting, but he was fantastic to to come and write at the end and and uh bring the movie home.
James Duke:Which is uh that's a that's a pretty big get too. The one thing I noticed about the earlier clips, the young David, that that eventually became the young David stuff, is there was a real sense of and this is a compliment to you guys, is there was a real sense of whimsy and joy that was just kind of popping off the screen with the characters. The the way in which the way in which it was animated, but also just the way in which the characters were interacting, everything felt as though it was more than oftentimes what I mean by that is oftentimes with with you know Bible things, we can things get a little bit maybe more serious. And and you know, that's fine because obviously, like I said, we're we're trying to we're trying to be careful with God's word, but there was a there was a joyful kind of whimsy that was coming across. And so can you talk about tone a little bit? Because once again, you're dealing with some serious stuff, you're dealing with some war narratives, but you're also dealing with a shepherd boy and family dynamics and Saul and all so can you talk about as a filmmaker balancing the right tones? Where did you, you know, in terms of finding the moments for comedy and music and drama, what was that process like for you? And and and was that uh was that challenging for you as the writer and director?
Brent Dawes:Can I think can I take that one, Phil? Yeah, please go for it. So I think the the the thing for me, well, a couple of things for me is one is just having a sincerity as we're making it, and also being being brave to trust the audience that like there are a lot of characters in this world. We come across a lot of different people. And the uh Phil, if you like it was an interesting one when we were doing the worshipper episode, and young Zeruya was in there, and like Phil and I, we had, and this is again where I love our relationship, where there's a real trust. Because I'd written this script, and and Phil wasn't too comfortable with the way I was portraying young Zeruya because she he's like Brent, she's coming across a little bit bratty. I was like, no, but Phil, it's like when when we get the voice, when you get the animation, it's gonna feel like endearing and appealing. And and little kids always do question, you know, because so she's like, I'm trying to be grumpy, this and that, and Phil's like, no, no, no, like we we don't want to portray that. And I said, Phil, let me let me get it to voice and and animation and and then I'll show you, you know. And I so was so grateful for Phil trusting me in that because I knew the sincerity behind what I was doing was just to show an endearing brother-sister relationship. They're not perfect, they're not fully sanitized. You know what I mean? Let's not let's not try and sort of polish everything too nice. Let's just show some real people in a playful way. And then when I showed Phil, he was like, oh, okay, no, I love it. It's fantastic and super endearing. So it was just allowing ourselves to be a little bit playful, but also just having a also having a sense of not trying to force something. We didn't, you know, I think a lot of there's a tendency or a a feeling in a lot of animation, you you need to go far quickly. You need to, you need to force jokes all the time. You need to, so there was a lot of no, if if there's a moment for a joke, let it happen. Do you know what I mean? Let let let it all come from within these characters and from within the world. Let's not force anything. And they're such wonderful characters that it allowed itself, it all revealed itself, you know. So I hope that answers the question, Phil, if there's anything to add there.
James Duke:Uh no, that's great, eh? Yeah, so a lot of it were you founded in characterization, which I which I think is really smart. And the what what was the biggest challenge for you with this film? Do you feel like David was the in turn particular specifically with the character of David? What would you say was the because like you said, Phil, literally the man after God's own heart. And there's always this challenge of how human they are, right? Versus how aspirationally, you know godly they are. But what what were some maybe some challenges that you faced creating a human vulnerable character that all of us know so well?
Phil Cunningham:Yeah, it's such a great question. I think the challenge is you don't want him to come across like Superman or a superhero who's just you know never misses a beat and he's got all right. But at the same time, his superpower was his faith in God, and you want to show how powerful that was because God is the hero of the story, and when you do put your faith in God, it has a massive impact. So I think trying to the challenge is trying to not let turn David into the hero of the story, you're trying to show that God is the hero of the story, and David's a normal person like all of us. And I think that's quite a hard line to walk because it's easy to turn David into the superhero. And in fact, I think it's one of the things that was crafted well into the script was you know, the scene where he kills Goliath, you know, he's like, Oh my goodness, now everyone's gonna realize how awesome God is, he's saved us. But they're all like, David, you're amazing, you know. But then by the end of the movie, he's managed to get people to not look at him anymore, but to start looking at God. And so the movie takes people on that journey, hopefully. But that's that was if you're asking about the challenges, I'd say that's that was one of the challenges, yeah.
Brent Dawes:Yeah, it was a big challenge. But I think for the wonderful thing is Phil, I'd say Phil and David are kindred spirits, so Phil's got a really keen sense of who David is. So, so he was always just so in the same way that I just spoke about Zeruya now, and I was like, Phil, trust me, there are some scenes where Phil's like, no, Brent, like no, David would do this, not that, you know, and be like, okay, cool. And so so it was a real holding the line and crafting this man of incredible humility but strength. Yeah, which is which again I'm so thrilled about because it it gives young boys and men a real role model, which I think is really missing in a lot of modern day media, you know. So I'm I'm thrilled with that.
James Duke:What do you guys want uh the audience to walk away? Uh they they go into the theater, they buy their popcorn, they watch this movie, they walk out. What what do you what would you want them to have experienced or come away with having watched this film?
Phil Cunningham:I'll I'll quickly say so. We want them to have been entertained and have had a lot of fun. That's one thing. But at a deeper level, we want them to be inspired and to be blown away by the adventurous, huge heart of God, and that you don't have to be perfect to go on that journey. An ordinary human being can just go on that journey, and God is your best friend, he's your shepherd. So, yeah, and that you can take on the giants in your life. So we hope that people would go away inspired by by that. Yeah.
James Duke:I know you guys have got to get out of here. Uh, I I just want to say I've been to South Africa. I have South African friends. I I'm gonna see if I get I've actually been to a Springbok game, just so you guys know. Nice. I I I I actually got to go to Springbok versus All Blacks. Oh wow, yeah. It was like the guy was telling me, he was like, this is like our Super Bowl. It was it was crazy in Pretorium. But let me see if I get this right. The film is Lecca. Did I do it right? Yes, that's a good, good job. Yeah. Great. It's very leka. All right. Well, hey, God bless you guys. I'm so grateful that you would take some time. I know you guys are busy talking to a lot of different people, but we want to make sure people go out December 19th and theaters everywhere to see David. And such a blessing to spend time with you guys. We always like to close our podcasts by praying for our guests. Would you guys allow me to pray for you guys? Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, James. Tell me, Father, we just thank you so much for this conversation. And thank you so much for Phil and for Brent and their entire team, especially Rita. And just to pray a blessing upon them. God, we just we're so grateful for the opportunity, all the hard work that has gone into this film, all the all the strategizing, all the intention, intentionality that has gone into this project. We pray, God, that you would just clear the path for it. That those who you want to see to film and and as Phil was saying, to come away inspired and hopeful, God, that we would see that happen. That would be the fruit of all these labors. God, we we don't want these guys to be celebrated. We want you to be celebrated. But we thank you for all their hard work. We pray a blessing upon Phil and Brent and their families and all their other future endeavors. And we just thank you for this time. We pray this in Jesus' name and your promises we stand. Amen. Thank you for listening to the Act One podcast, celebrating over 20 years as the premier training program for Christians in Hollywood. Act One is a Christian community of entertainment industry professionals who train and equip storytellers to create works of truth, goodness, and beauty. The Act One program is a division of Master Media International. To financially support the mission of Act One or to learn more about our programs, visit us online at Act One Program dot com. And to learn more about the work of Master Media, go to mastermedia.com.