Writer/Producer John Glenn

Act One Podcast - Episode 49 - Special Episode featuring a case study from the 2025 Producing and Entertainment Executive Program on the new Lionsgate/MGM+ show, ROBIN HOOD, now streaming.

During the Act One Producing and Entertainment Executive Program, we occasionally offer case studies of projects for the students to watch and discuss with the filmmakers. Recorded on Saturday, November 8th, 2025, this interview with Showrunner John Glenn offers a fascinating look "behind the curtain” of the making of the new Lionsgate/MGM+ series, ROBIN HOOD.

John Glenn is an American screenwriter, producer, director, and showrunner with over 25 years of experience creating film and television at the highest level. He launched his career in 1999 when he sold his speculative screenplay Red World to Jerry Bruckheimer and Walt Disney Pictures. Since then, Glenn has written, sold, and produced original films and series for every major studio and network in Hollywood - including Warner Bros., Paramount, Universal, Fox, Sony, DreamWorks, and Disney, as well as ABC, NBC, CBS, and FOX on the television side. His work also extends to MGM+, Lionsgate, and many more. His series Robin Hood for Lionsgate and MGM+, starring Sean Bean and Connie Nielson, premiered Nov. 2 and is currently streaming.

Throughout his career, Glenn has developed and sold dozens of high-concept projects, working closely with A-list directors, producers, and actors across both film and television. Known for his ability to craft character-driven stories within commercial genres, Glenn continues to serve as a trusted creative force in the industry, bridging the worlds of studio filmmaking and premium television. 

The Act One Podcast provides insight and inspiration on the business and craft of Hollywood from a Christian perspective.

Chapters

• 0:00 Theme, Protagonists, And Rewriting
• 0:54 Host Intro And Guest Background
• 2:16 From Actor Dreams To Writing Specs
• 5:14 Breaking Into Blockbusters And TV
• 10:56 Development Realities: OWAs vs Originals
• 15:40 High Concept, Spielberg, And Eagle Eye
• 18:16 Why Original Material Still Wins
• 20:59 The Two North Stars For Rewrites
• 24:13 Period Pieces: Cost, Passion, And Payoff
• 26:10 Choosing Robin Hood And Free IP Strategy
• 28:09 Serbia Production Model And Scale
• 31:35 Producing In The Writers’ Room
• 36:20 Saving Costs Without Losing Scope
• 40:02 Building Antagonists With Depth
• 44:32 Casting Sean Bean And Moral Complexity
• 48:35 Finding A Masculine Lead And True Chemistry
• 53:03 Faith Threads, Pagans, And A Slow Conversion
• 57:10 Pitching With Budgets, Anchors, And Profit
• 1:03:20 Origin Stories And The Magna Carta Endgame
• 1:07:36 Schedule, Second Units, And DGA Workarounds
• 1:12:08 Preproduction Discipline And On-Set Confidence
• 1:16:34 Delivery Crunch, Team Loyalty, And Timeline
• 1:21:39 Renewal Math: Price Points And Season Two
• 1:27:02 Industry Shift To Lower-Cost Prestige
• 1:34:24 Closing Gratitude And Act One Mission

Transcript

John Glenn: 0:02

To your second question, when you rewrite something, the guiding light, the DNA of it, it has to be has to have two things. An incredibly strong theme that you understand. Like you know, and even put another way, it's like, why are you writing it? Like, why does it matter? I mean, if you could because if it doesn't matter to you, like if you don't think it can somehow change the world or expose a percentage of the audience to ideas that you think are important or beliefs that you think are important, you're never gonna be able to rewrite it without ruining it. And then it has to have a primary character that you completely understand and that you're in love with. Because that's the person you protect. You don't protect yourself or even necessarily the project, you protect the protagonist.

James Duke: 0:54

You are listening to the Act One podcast. I'm your host, James Duke. Thanks for tuning in. If you like what you hear, please subscribe to our podcast and leave us a good review. My guest today is writer, producer, director John Glenn. John is a screenwriter, producer, director, and showrunner with over 25 years of experience creating film and television at the highest level. He launched his career in 1999 when he sold his spec screenplay Red World to Jerry Bruckheimer and Walt Disney Pictures. Since then, Glenn has written, sold, and produced original films and series for every major studio and network in Hollywood. And when I say everyone, I literally mean every single one of them. His current series, Robin Hood, uh for Lionsgate and MGM Plus, starring Sean Bean and Connie Nielsen, premiered November 2nd of 2025 and is currently streaming. So be sure to check it out. Now, this is actually a special episode of the podcast because this is sort of a sneak peek at our Act One producing and entertainment executive program. This particular conversation with John is actually from uh our class in November when he spoke to our students on his new show, Robinhood, that we used as a case study. So please enjoy this bonus episode of the podcast. Why don't we start with the beginning of your career? When did you decide you wanted to become a writer and come out here in Hollywood and start making stuff?

John Glenn: 2:29

Oh man, I think I always knew I would be in the arts somehow from the time I was young. And I was always drawing and and writing my own comic books and you know that sort of thing. And I was always into music and you know, films, television, you know, probably very similar to, you know, most of you know, you all, everyone on the call on the Zoom. I'm from I'm from Alabama, so I was, you know, pretty far away from any, you know, connections or any really even an understanding of of Hollywood or you know what it was about. And I came out here when I was 18 to be an actor because I thought, well, that, you know, it just made the most sense to me. And you know, because I liked actors and it looked like it would be a fun way to make a living. You know, so so I I started acting and you know, and I did that, you know, and would do sort of the I guess every all the sort of stuff younger actors would do, you know, write, you know, and you know, we'd throw these plays at coffee houses and that sort of thing. And you know, I even when I came out here though, I'm I I'm not really sure that I understood entirely that you, you know, you can make a pretty good living writing. I just you know, it just didn't cross my mind. And I just wasn't I wasn't super versed on the film industry or how it how it worked, you know. And at a certain point I I I I just realized I wasn't a very good actor, you know, like pretty quickly. I was like, yeah, I don't know if I'm actually good at this, but that's really you know, but I would start to rewrite my friends' plays and I would, you know, start to write different plays, and and then I I just sort of I just liked writing. I mean, I really liked that process and I liked the I liked the solo nature of it, even though I like to write with people. I I I still write with other people, friends and and Kenny and Jacob, you know, who were you know very well. And then, you know, and then I don't know, I just I was playing music too and in a band, and but that lifestyle wasn't quite, I could just sort of see even in success where that would probably lead, you know, probably not to a lifestyle conducive for family, and that's you know, the other things that I wanted in life. And uh I don't I decided I just decided to write a script one day, and then I just sat down and wrote a script.

James Duke: 4:51

And uh did you literally uh not the only scripts you had seen had been as an actor going out for auditions, basically?

John Glenn: 4:59

Yeah, the only scripts I'd ever seen were pieces of scripts for auditions or that sort of thing. But then I started to read, I read a bunch of plays. I was very into playwriting and that sort of thing. And so I, you know, I you know, I had I sort of had a language, you know, for it, I guess. It comes down to it. And but then this was like, you know, this was in the like, I don't know, 1995-ish or something, 94 when I came out here, 93 actually, when I came out here, but it was like the mid-90s, you know, and there was a huge, you know, kind of feature spec market, you know, and you read these stories, it's like, oh, this guy sells a script for a million dollars, and this gal sells a script for a million dollars. And and but I wasn't really into Hollywood movies, you know, I was into like the Hollywood type of films that I were, I was into, you know, kind of the indie stuff, like John Sayles. I loved John Sayles, I still love John Sayles. He's you know, probably the greatest influence on me in terms of you know Hollywood. And so I thought, oh, you know, I could do that, I could direct, I can write my own movies and go, you know, get a million dollars. And and so I did that, and I had, you know, a degree of success. I mean, people, my writing started to get out there, and people were responding to it, and I had really kind of interesting people attaching to these small movies, but you know, I was making like $20,000 for a script, which was awesome, you know. I'm like, oh wow, I just got paid $20,000 for something I just did, you know, between my you know, waiting job, you know. And but I I just wasn't making a, you know, I just I just knew it'd be tough to make a living doing that. So I was not into like Hollywood summer movies and all that sort of thing. It was kind of the the height of Bruckheimer and you know all that sort of thing. And but I decided to sit down and write a like a my version of a huge Hollywood blockbuster movie, and so I went to see every single movie that year. I think this was like '97 or '96, somewhere in there. And I just wrote my version of like a giant Hollywood action film. And it's so and it sold. Like it would be it sold in like a total bidding war, which is just completely crazy because it was really in my mind, I was designing my sellout. Like, I'm gonna sell out because I need you know, I was engaged at the time, and you know it was a cash grab. It was a cash grab. Literally, I mean it literally designed, you know, but then so suddenly I was just like, oh, he's this big movie high concept person, and then I just did that for like 10 years, and I had no interest in television at all. I had zero interest in television, I had no, you know, no desire to really be in it, and I didn't really know much about it. But uh a film executive that I'd written a couple of movies for ended up going to run a television a network and and uh talked me into writing a pilot. And I kind of did it as a favor. I mean, I really did. I was like, he really wanted to crack this particular world, and and I this was like, I don't know, this is like a in September, late September of I don't remember what year. And uh and so I went and I wrote this thing, I was done with it in two months, and then two weeks later, they're like, oh, we're gonna make it. And then two weeks later, I was in New York prepping it, and you know, it was so fast, it was so different than my film experience. And I thought, wow, this is pretty cool. And then I got there and I realized that everyone wanted to actually hear what I had to say. You know what I mean? That I realized I was the boss when it came right down to it. You know, and I'm not a control freak, but there is a there's a big difference between writing being a writer in a movie and right and creating a show, you know.

James Duke: 8:38

Yeah, yeah, because you would you you would they didn't even they didn't probably didn't even want you on set as the writer of your of your films, yeah.

John Glenn: 8:44

No, they would always go to someone else, you know. And I've done that too, where you get brought into a movie and you do production you writes on set, but it you're you're it's often you're that often that that that job or piece of it often doesn't go to the original writer because you know you're probably and it's probably smart because you're just burnt by that point, you know. You know, at a certain point, you're not I for me anyway, I'm not sure how to make anything better at a certain point. You know, because everything becomes a lateral move or a negative move, and you sort of feel, okay, this is the time to give it to another writer and move move on. So it was a strange, I didn't, you know, it just I don't know. I've always been, I think, good at just letting things come to me. Just kind of I just do the work and then whatever happens happens. And and uh I think for I think for me that was very helpful because I wasn't attached to any particular result. I just wanted to write. What show was that again? Did it end up going from pilot or was you just shoot the play? It was a show called Drift, and and uh you know, we cast Ches Palmeteri and Marsha Gay Harden and like Vanessa Farlito and Jason Omara and like all these really really interesting, really good actors. And again, it's like I was sort of the center of that, you know, and and and dealing with the actors in a way that a that a that a film director, you know, deals with with with that, you know, and then then then hiring the director, you know, which was nice because then the director is there to serve, you know, your vision, not necessarily his or her vision. So yeah, I mean it was just it that's kind of I think I was trying a bunch of different things because I was always creative, and then just having at least enough self-reflection to understand what I'm good at and what I'm not good at, and to lean into what I'm good at.

James Duke: 10:30

So you uh so about a 10-year period, you said you were you became like the high concept guy, so you were going in, and then can you just explain a little bit that how that world was? I don't think a lot of people understand that just because something doesn't ever go into production, like there's there's tons of things that are getting bought and sold, and people are getting paid. Can you explain just the development process as a writer? Because I don't think people fully understand how it works.

John Glenn: 10:59

Well, I think there's there's yeah, I think this this still exists. There's sort of two, there's two branches, right? There's writers that write original material, pretty exclusively. I'm one of those. And then there's OWAs, which are open writing assignments for projects that are IP based or titles that a studio owns. I was always, I found the OWA kind of path challenging, you know, because it it becomes almost like a bake-off where I don't know, one or others will have Clash of the Titans and they want a Clash of the Titans movie. And uh, you know, it's like you go in, you pitch, you pitch your take, but they're hearing takes from like 30 or 40 other writers. So it's a very, it's that's a that's a that's a difficult path. You know, it's just it's just it's a lot of labor. By the time you come up with a pitch and do all of that, I could have just written, written it. I mean, I actually did write the first draft of Clash of the Titans for Warner Brothers, you know, and they wanted to remake that. And uh, but I was just passionate about that that material. That was like a movie from my childhood that I was just super into and Perseus and all of this, and there is also a huge spiritual component to that story telling that I'm drawn to. So you could I could do really interesting things thematically, you know, with it and bury kind of some of the stuff that I'm drawn to as a writer, you know.

James Duke: 12:21

Wait, John, wait John. I don't mean to interrupt you, but I just want to are so are you telling me you're the one who released the kraken?

John Glenn: 12:29

I didn't have the kraken in my first draft though, and they were very upset by that. I hated they're like, you have to put the kraken in, and I'm just like, okay. So I put the kraken. I put the kraken in, you know. Here's your kraken, you know, but you know, I've added your kraken.

James Duke: 12:46

I've released the kraken for you, all right?

John Glenn: 12:48

Release the kraken. But uh, but that but you know, but that was a that was a really fun, that was a really, really fun project, and very supportive executives and a lot of fun people, a lot of really cool people involved that I'm still friends with, you know, to this day. But uh, I've always been drawn to I think the better path is frankly, it's it's sometimes tougher, but I think in the end it's more rewarding. And and I think you I think you have a greater chance of success is original material. Like I still almost exclusively do original material and infill and I still I still do movies, you know, but it's always original stuff. I mean, and you know, I've written three feature specs in between showrunning and stuff in the past five years, and I've sold all those, you know, so it's just and people say it's hard it's more difficult if it's original material, and and there's there's truth to that. But if it's if it's good and it has and it's and if it's saleable, you know, if they can see an audience for it, I think it accelerates your career, you know.

James Duke: 13:50

Your buddies, Jake and Kenny, told me once a great concept that's poorly written is way more attractive in Hollywood than a so-so concept that's well executed. Would you would you agree with that?

John Glenn: 14:07

Yeah, with I mean without a doubt, because I think that there's a difference between a script and a movie. They're I know I know some very, very, very, very good writers, but they struggle with concept, like they struggle with with understanding what a movie actually is, you know, and so it trips them up often. And it's kind of how I started working with a lot of other writers was that I have a I I'm always I generate a lot of ideas, self-generate, and I don't have time to write them all. So I started kind of forming them out to other writers that I knew were good writers, and I could help them with the concept, the movie piece of it all. And uh you know, but it is, yeah. I mean, it's like a really I've read a ton of really good, you know, many, many, many very, very, very well written scripts that aren't movies, and you know, declined to become involved with them because I just know where that goes, which is it just doesn't go anywhere. It's just a great piece of writing, and that'll open doors for you for sure, but it's just a project that's not, and I've written, by the way, I've written those too. Not that well written has gotten made, you know.

James Duke: 15:06

Well, you're yeah, and like you said, you spent all those years as kind of the high concept guy. Um, in fact, I you know, I mean, you wrote the screenplay for Eagle Eye, which was a pretty big high concept, you know, big budget film. And was that like at the end of that run there? You you or is that a is that a script you'd you had tinkered with for a while?

John Glenn: 15:27

No, it was this it that movie got made at the same time the first pilot I wrote got made. So that year, Eagle Eye got greenled, and then this pilot I wrote was green led at ABC. And uh and they're but and they were both kind of high concept. I mean, they're both very high concept ideas, and that Eagle Eye was really Spielberg's kind of notion. He always wanted to do a north by northwest type of a film where but where the heroes were being framed by technology, and it wasn't really, and there were some other drafts. I wasn't the first writer on that. I just I was writing a movie for DreamWorks at the time, and they just asked me if I would, you know, sit out and they asked me if I'd sit down with Spielberg, and I'm like, yeah, well, duh. For sure. c

James Duke: 16:12

Let me check my calendar. Yes.

John Glenn: 16:14

And uh yeah, I cleared anything I had going that day pretty quickly. And I'm you know, he was just talking and uh about it, but the he could never find the drafts that the he and I think there are three or four other drafts that existed from three or four other writers. One was Dan McDermott, who ended up sharing credit on it because he was the first writer, and he's the president of AMC now. Well television side. And Dan's a really nice, a very, very nice guy. And uh, but the the the problem with those other drafts, I never read them until after the movie got made. Then I went back and read them for fun, but they didn't have a high concept core, you know, they didn't have a real, it was just sort of kind of every what was happening in the movie and why it was happening was arbitrary. It wasn't connected to the DNA of the, you know, there was no DNA there within the concept that justified, you know, the movement of the story. I had the I had the benefit of this, was this was post-9-11 when DHS was uh formed, you know, it's like, oh, let's have this other, there's another gigantic federal bureaucracy and you know, crime. So there is that was my way into it is using this sort of the Patriated Act and this sort of federal apparatus of of really unchecked power, you know. And so there's a kind of a high concept core based in the real world that made it feel grounded and believable.

James Duke: 17:36

That's good. I want to get into Robin Hood, but before I do, we have a couple of questions here from our students. So Shannon, let's start with you.

Shannon: 17:46

Hi, John. Thank you so much for being here on a Saturday. So grateful to have you and congratulations on your on your recent launch. I have two questions, if that's okay. One is I write original content, and we had had a guest, I think a couple of weeks ago, who said that is the hardest thing to be doing. So I wanted to get your take on that. And two, when you are in the revision process, specifically when you had a draft that was really resonating, doing really well, and you rewrote to a second draft, and you get to that second draft, and you're like, oh, I lost something a little bit, and you want to hybridize those two really strong drafts. I was wondering if you have a process for that or what your thoughts are within that process to not get lost in terms of the heart of why you wrote that story.

John Glenn: 18:31

Yeah, I mean, I think that so I think that I think that there's truth to what, you know, this previous guest, you know, said that it may be it may be harder. And I think that it is harder, but it's harder to a degree, right? I mean, it's it's harder to sell original material, but the process of of of getting to a completed script and and I think writing something that's different and stands out and then and that sort of marks you as a writer, like a voice that people want to track, I think it's much easier in that regard because IP is they own it, right? I mean, they own all the IP. And so there's all these sort of parameters about if they, I don't know, they want to remake Rambo. I don't even, I'm just picking Rambo, right? There's all these sorts of kind of preconceived notions that that the studio is bringing into that process that you're already going to become beholden to to a degree, versus I want to write my own Rambo. I you know, I have this action film that's literally like kind of like an urban Rambo at Lionsgate and went outside Amazon, but it but it's sort of an urban Rambo, you know. It's like and it's completely original material. But you know, when I went out with that like two and a half years ago, there were multiple bidders that that wanted it because it was fresh, it was different, it was you know, it was something that sort of stood on its stood on its own, and you could see a way to make that movie and market that movie. And you know, and it and so particularly because it was written at a certain budget, it was written in such a way that it would it it could only cost it could cost $100 million, but it could also cost $25 million. So I think that that's like as a franchise starter and it's action, that's helpful. So I don't know. I mean, I think that for I think for you know younger writers or whatever you want to call it, I think original material is a much better way to go. I just think you have to write with them the reality of the business that we're in, you know, which is Hollywood. I mean, you know, so it's you could you can go write these tiny kind of tiny small films and they may get made. They probably won't get made, but even if they do, you they're probably no one's gonna probably see them. You know, and then those films are 100% reliant upon a director. I mean, most films are, right? I mean, you have to have a great director, but it's just I don't know. I I'm an ad I'm a huge advocate of original material, and there is now a growing need for it and thirst for it because they're they're running out of IP. You know, I think with like I think when you re you know to your second question, when you rewrite something, the guiding light, it's why what you write has to within the DNA of it, it has to be, in my opinion, has to have two things, an incredibly strong theme that you understand, like you know, and even put another way, it's like, why are you writing it? Like, why does it matter? I mean, if you could because if it doesn't matter to you, like if you don't think it can somehow change the world or you know, expose a percentage of the audience to ideas that you think are important or beliefs that you think are important, you know, then then you're never gonna be able to rewrite it without ruining it. And then it has to have a primary character that you completely understand and that you're in love with, because that's the person you protect. You don't protect yourself or even necessarily the project, you protect the protagonist because his or her journey is is the thing coupled with theme that that makes it important to you, you know, A, but B that makes it important to anyone else who comes across it, whether it's just whether it's just a script or or it's a film or whatever. It has to have it has to mean something. And you have to understand what it means. And then you have to protect that. I mean, that's the only way actually to go through a rewrite process and not, you know, ultimately screw it up.

Shannon: 22:29

Wow, thank you. Wow.

James Duke: 22:33

Deanne, you got a quick question?

Deanne: 22:36

Hello, I really enjoyed watching Robin Hood. Thank you for being here with us. I've learned so much already from you. And I keep thinking in my mind, two years ago I found something original. I it's not original, it's a book, but it is original because not often is the author's deaf. Not often we see a producer who's deaf. I mean, I I don't want to make this awkward, but I do believe that deaf people and hearing people work together. It's not like I'm thinking all deaf, this, deaf, that. But it's I have a vision of working with a crew, CAF, deaf and hearing with this book. And it's original and it's a period of piece. And with my producer's friends, my talent manager, they keep saying the phrase, it's a period piece, it's difficult. Earlier, you said, you know, people say original materials are difficult. I don't want to take no for an answer. This story is close to my heart, and I want to make it happen. And now I'm seeing all these period pieces playing on TV, like Robin Hood or last night, a movie, Sarah's Oil, was just out in theater yesterday. I saw that. That's a period piece. I'm just curious about your take about doing period piece. Why people keep telling me that it's too difficult to do, it's not realistic.

John Glenn: 24:13

Well, I think that it is difficult. It's and it is more difficult, right? I mean, there's so many challenges to a period piece that that you're immediately faced with that you're not like if you wanted to write a story set, you know, in uh, I don't know, Los Angeles, right? I mean, it's like, and it's 2025. Then when you point the camera down the street, it can just be the street. You know, it can just be what exists. You know, when you when you step into period, you have to completely create the world, you know, from the jewelry to the costumes to the furniture to the hair, the hair, you know, the make, everything becomes completely different and it doesn't exist. So you have to create it. And then when you create it, you have to pay for it. Right, right. You know, so it becomes a whole other layer. But I I think I think everything's difficult in life. Do you know what I mean? So I I I'm with I'm the same type of person that you are, and that I mean, you can't go into Hollywood and take no for an answer. I mean, that's just like crazy. So you can't take no for an answer just no matter what, but everything's difficult in life. I mean, life can be very difficult. It's it's we all know that there are so many challenges that we all face, you know, in in our personal lives, you know, whatever, raising children and relationships, with friendships, with you know, every life is not designed to be easy. The world we live in is not, you know, it's it's not set up that way. So I don't, I because something is difficult, it doesn't matter. It's the passion that matters. Like if you're passionate about it and you think it's great and you know what's great, like someone else will, like other people will. And then that was a challenge we faced on you know, Robinhood is every everyone is always that's the first reaction. It's just like people don't want to get into it because they just know there's a whole other layer you have to figure out, but I don't know, you just go figure it out.

James Duke: 26:10

So that's a good segue into let's talk about Robin Hood. So the, you know, I I I've seen Robin Hood, I know Robin Hood, and we've all we you know, it it'd be you'd be hard pressed to find someone in the Western hemisphere who didn't already know the story of Robinhood. So let's start with development. How why Robinhood, what what made you decide to and by the way, we've all watched the pilot, and I actually really enjoyed it. I I'm just curious where where did the where was the impetus of let's go make a because you literally just sat here and told us about, you know, you make all these original ideas, and then now one of the most kind of famous IPs of all time is now a brand new show that you co-created. So I'm just curious, what was the development process like for the show?

John Glenn: 26:59

Well, I mean, one of the one of the reasons for Robin Hood was that it is that what you just said is every single everyone in the world knows what I mean. You can go to China and ask a 17-year-old kid in China and an 80-year-old, you know, retiree, you know, what you know, in the same city, they all know what they all know Robinhood. Like around the globe, it's a completely recognizable story that for centuries has been told and retold over and over again. That was the that was a big reason why we decided to engage Robin Hood, was because it is free IP. You know what I mean? It's like you're already starting with a leg up. Everyone knows what it is. The other, the I mean, the the the other reason is for me, I've never felt that it's actually been done right. It always feels somewhat cheesy or kind of silly, you know. It's kind of like swashbuckling, you know, damsels in distress type of type of a vibe. And I don't think that it has ever been done in a way that feels really grounded and you know, not necessarily historically accurate, even though I think this is a the most historically accurate version that I've ever seen anyway, but it feels historically believable, you know, you know what I mean? So it's that was a that was a huge piece of it. The other piece is I have a company in in Belgrade, Serbia, where we shot it. So I have a company there, and I know and I just know I know Serbia and I know the landscape. I've worked in Serbia a couple of times, and I know, and I knew we could do Robin Hood there. I mean, I knew we could make it look exactly like you know, whatever 12th century England. And and and the other reason was I I knew we could do it there for a price that is, you know, you just it's impossible to do anywhere else in the world. So, and I love the story. Like I've always loved this idea of of this kind of you know, this this figure, you know, righting wrongs and fighting for the every everyday man and woman. But it was Robin Hood was also strategic as well. It was part creative. I knew there could be like kind of a really more grounded, cool Batman begins type version of that story with much more interesting, you know, sort of brushstrokes on Marion and and uh and bringing Eleanor of Aquitaine into it. I thought was really could be really cool and and then ultimately seeing Robin Hood in places where you don't normally see him, like in London and in Westminster Palace, and as the series goes on, like in you know, in the Crusades and in Malta and all the in Rome, all these sorts of different places. But the other piece of it is that there is a business, you know, component to it that it fit my business model in Serbia. You know, I mean, right, I mean, it just sort of I'm right now out with another with a horror project with Eli Roth, who who I met years ago at the premiere of Cabin Fever in Toronto, where he premiered that that was his first film. And we're doing Cabin Fever in Belgrade, Serbia, except the cabin is now this kind of grand European hotel. And, you know, they get trapped in there and craziness ensues. But, you know, that's a smaller title, but that's a title. You know, Eli and I are old friends working together, it's fun to do. But I can also do it as a part of my business there. And I can deliver that show for 80%, 75% less than it would cost to produce here. And that's a huge part of you know, the business is you know, cost efficiency is finally coming into vogue.

James Duke: 30:29

Yeah, I mean, the production value that was one first thing I wanted to say off the bat is the production value is great. I I it it it looks great. The world I'm I was fully convinced that I was in Sherwood Forest, and I was really impressed. I it didn't seem like you had a lot of visual effects, it seemed like a lot of it was practically built. I'm sure you had some visual effects, but I I I love hearing the fact that you shot it, you know, in Serbia. The the when you were and the the the pilot's fantastic. I love the end to this story, like you said, the the whole Batman agains. I don't know if you're allowed to say how much you know you've you've budgeted all these episodes for, but I I I'm curious the balance between you, because usually we're talking to producers or creative executives, and I've got now in front of me, I've got the writer, director, producer. I mean, you didn't direct the pilot, but I mean you've directed it. So you've got I've got I've got someone who who who's wearing multiple hats on one project. What is that balance between I really want to see this on screen, but I only have X amount of dollars? What was that process like for you? Do you end up bringing in your other creative partners to kind of help help you make those decisions? And and if so, maybe what was a couple of the decisions you had to make with the pilot?

John Glenn: 31:51

Well, I mean, I you you you do, I do, but I I mean I make all of those decisions, you know. I mean, it's sort of I'm the sort of bottom line, and there has to be a bottom line, and it can't be by committee. You know, at the end of the day, I mean, that's what a showrunner is is a showrunner is someone that the studios ultimately that the studios and streamers or networks trust with their money. I mean, that's that's the that's the that is the ultimate, that's you know, probably the defining characteristic of that job is we trust you with millions and millions of dollars. And but the way to get there, I think if you're starting that process on set, you're you're you're in trouble. You know, so producing, actual producing starts in the writer's room. For a television show, it starts in the writer's room. It's why I'm very particular about writers in the room and only will work with certain writers, you know, and bring them that closely into my process. Kenyan Jacob being probably the the two that I trust more than anyone, because they understand me, they understand the process, and they're actually good producers and they understand that you're producing in the room. And when I'm putting a story, uh episode onto a board, I can look at it and say that's too expensive. Like I know for a fact that I can't achieve that. And so if I want to achieve that, if I think that there's some, I don't know, in Robinhood, for example, if there's some, there's some big battle or something that is important to the story, then I have to, I have to either look back or look forward and say, okay, well, what can I, you know, minimize in this episode or in this episode to actually pay for it? And so it it's it's a it's a living process, you know, that's always that's always happening because when you get to the set, it's like you know, when you're there, you really can't be producing on set. It's already produced or it's not. And you're gonna find you know you'll find out how good of a producer you are very quickly, you know. But there are there are things where you have to, you just have to switch, you know, you have to you have to call audibles and make make big adjustments, and you, you know, and that is that a lot of that just comes from experience or seeing the tidal wave coming and being able to look down the road and say, oh man, I think we're literally $300,000 short on this thing that we want to do. So you do have to adjust. I mean, one of the huge adjustments is we were out a lot, and the and you'll see if you if you all watch the the show, the scope and the scale, like we're out in the middle of nowhere shooting some of these major scenes, and and the production value is incredible, right? It's absolutely fantastic. But the problem is, is you're out, right? So it's like you got to get the trucks and you got to get people to drive the trucks, and then you have to places to park the trucks, and then you have to, you know, load up all the wardrobe, and you have to basically unpack the studio and take it with you or a good chunk of it, right? And all that is really expensive. So the minute you're the minute you leave a studio, you're just burning money. I mean, you're just you, it just is like you're lighting it on fire and you feel it, you definitely feel that. And probably the biggest adjustment and maybe the biggest conflict I have with my partner, who is a partner in my company over there, Jonathan English, who directed the pilot, and he and I uh create created the show together. He's a he's an amazing director. But you know, like most directors, it's like they want everything that they want. And even if you're a director, but you're an EP on the show, the director hat for pure directors is always driving, right? It's always winning the arguments in the brain. And so, you know, one of the big issues that I saw coming was we can't afford to be out in the middle of nowhere this much when there's this like five miles from the studio, there's this kind of there's I don't know, 20 acres of farmland that is not the same type of luxury, luxurious, beautiful, amazing, scopy forest. But the minute you're into a campfire scene with characters, right, or just two people sitting on a rock talking about something, you don't see any of that. Like you don't, you know what I mean? It's like you're in here, and it doesn't matter what's back there because no one's tracking that at all. So, I mean, I literally cut 20 days of being out and put them all in this guy's farm. You know, and we pay and this guy was this, you know, farmer, a really cool guy, and and we paid him like I think you know, 5,000 bucks for the whole all those 20 days, which is you know cheap. And he's like, Oh yeah, and he just had a blast. He loved it. He loved coming out there and you know, bringing his grandkids and whatever, and we meet the actors, and wow, yeah, we probably say, I don't know, $400,000 by doing that, which doesn't sound like a lot of money, but we're dealing with in Serbia, I'm dealing with increments of five and ten thousand dollars. Here I'm dealing with increment increments of 75, 150, $300,000. So the moves you make over there, you have to make the moves, but the impact is smaller, but it's still equally impact, it still equally impacts your production and your budget. So producing starts in it starts in the room, and it's like that's how I figure out very quickly if for writers, if that's the if they that's the kind of writer I want to work with, in particular on television, if they if they can't understand that because it just doesn't it doesn't work.

James Duke: 37:22

It's really smart, obviously based on a lot of experience. You I'm curious now about you're you're you're developing a show, and television is about characters and relationships, right? It's it's character driven, not plot driven, no necessarily. And and so, you know, the Robin Hood world. We're familiar with obviously Robin Hood, Marion, Sheriff of Nottingham. You know, you we've got some iconic kind of characters that fill out the world. What was it like for you when you were sitting down? What characters did you want? What characters did you you mentioned Eleanor, you wanted to either create some new characters or bring some characters in? What's the what's kind of your philosophy when you're developing an idea that needs to arc over multiple episodes and multiple seasons? What's your approach to creating characters for the show?

John Glenn: 38:16

For me, it's like it is all about character at the end of the day. So, but so so is so are films like great films, right? I mean, it's like all of the great movies we've seen. The reason why we really love the movie is the care is the lead, you know. It's like now it may be a cool world like The Matrix or whatever, but it's like no one's talking about the world really. They're talking about Neo, you know, so it's it's sort of the same thing. I think to understand, if you want to, the challenge of television is that it's long form storytelling. You know, features are like, okay, I have I have 120 pages and I'm done, you know, it's just sort of, and that's it. And you just hit the end and fade out, whatever. You know, it's never really quite done in television. I mean, I know where the series ends, and I know where Rob is at the end of the series, but I think to write any uh strong television characters that are iconic, whether it's like Tony Soprano or it's like Thomas Shelby, you know, you have to understand the trauma the trauma there the the Fisher King wound in them, you know, the thing that is the wound, right? Like what is the thing that hurt the most or open their eyes to something that they can't unsee? Because if you understand that, that's what you have to find first, is the like what's the trauma there? Like what is what is how did Robert of Loxley become Robin Hood? I mean, it's not it just wasn't by accident, you know, just not he just fell into you know robbing people and you know, attacking the power structure of his day. If he had to be driven there, I think like all great heroes, it had to they have to be sort of driven there by pain. And by something that they're trying to reconcile within themselves. You know, with Rob, it was it it became the murder of his father, the loss of his ancestral home in Loxley Manor, and that home then ironically being occupied by Huntington and his daughter, you know, Marion, which is, you know, kind of an interesting dynamic to play with as well. I mean, here's an example for the sheriff. It's like one of my issues with Robin Hood is the sheriff is always just this kind of mindless obsession focused. He just wants to hunt Robin Hood. He never catches Robin Hood. He's riding in circles, but he always kind of just starts and ends at the same place as a very one-dimensional, uninteresting character. And I know for a fact you're not going to get like a Sean Bean or anyone, like in any like A plus high, high caliber actor with a character like that. So it was super, super important with the sheriff. He was probably the trickiest character to actually crack because I knew he had to be different. He had to be human. We had to understand in him that he was not psychopathic, you know, that he didn't take pleasure in hurting people or killing. And the sort of two the tr the wound for him, the Fisher King wound, was the Crusades. So he's he's a man who comes from war. He understands what war does, he understands the cost of war, he understands the the horror, the bloodshed, like the the women killed, the children killed mindlessly for no reason. And that's what he he brings all of that in the moment that we meet him, he brings all of that. You know, Sean brought all of that immediately because he understood, we sat down and talked like for hours about the sheriff's backstory. And then the other sort of, I think, real piece of that was to give him something that he needed to protect and that he loved more than anything in the world, which was his daughter, you know, and she's a bit of a promiscuous type, you know, kind of running around doing all the, you know, doing things that she shouldn't be doing. But it's like he loves her more than he loves life itself. You know what I mean? Everything that he is ultimately doing in the world of our story is to protect his daughter. And you'll see as the season goes on, that his real motive is not to like go kill Robin Hood. I mean, does he want does he want to catch him? Does he think Robin Hood needs to pay for his crime? Sure. But what he's really trying to prevent is war coming to Nottingham because he's seen what war does and he knows what it brings. It brings horror. And once it, and once it arrives on your shore, in your home, in your in your life, in your, you know, in your world, you it's uncontrollable. It's like a demon. You know what I mean? It's like you just you just let a demon out of the out of the out of the out of the cage. So I think you see as as the series goes on, you see this really, I think, really, to in my opinion, and I say this very honestly with humility, but I think it's the most interesting version of the Sheriff of Nottingham that you've that you've that you've seen because he's he's just very unique. And that's and that's how we got Sean. I mean, Sean read the first five scripts, and you know, he was in from that the word go, you know, and and we had basically we had a choice, we had choices, and I think it was because that version no one's ever seen.

James Duke: 43:15

And it's a great to hear you describe this, right? It's it's this great setup of these two strong characters that have you know clear goals, clear objectives, and then the series is the crossing of them, right? So like that's where the and then all the other kind of characters pepper in, right? But but if you don't have the sheriff of equal kind of weight of Robin Hood, right, then it it loses, right? So it's that's kind of the joy, right, of of writing these episodes is when you can take these two characters that are so driven separately and and have them clash, right? Because they're both wanting different things and they're they're obstacles for each other.

John Glenn: 43:59

Well, you and you know the clash is coming. Do you know what I mean? It's like you understand that it's coming, and there's kind of an it's kind of a cliche, but it's true. That's why you know, most cliches, you know, strangely have truth, but you know, your your protagonist is only going to be as interesting as your antagonist, you know, and he's only going to be as formidable as your antagonist, and he's only going to be as layered as your antagonist. So I think that's always been an issue with Robin Hood, is Sheriff has always been one-dimensional, and then that sort of the afterglow of that, you know, it it's it's thrown onto Robin Hood, and he then he kind of becomes not that interesting, you know. He sort of becomes too clean, too pure, and whatever. And I think with with with this the this version, you know, he goes to a very dark place. You know, he goes to play, he does things that are not that are not that are sinful, you know, that are wrong. I mean, he does he he makes mistakes he makes real mistakes, but his larger series arc too is it's a conversion story, which you know we didn't pitch this to the studio because it's kind of stuff that makes him you know get weird, but he starts as a pagan, you know, he's just you know, but he's going to convert. It's a conversion story. That's his meta story, is his is his conversion to Christianity and and this sort of his eyes being open to a better way of achieving of achieving goals, you know. Sometimes like you know, murder and war, it's like not always the right way to go. And he does end up murdering a man in season one. And he and it's and he and he murders him. I mean, it's not it's not a self-defense thing, and it's a and it's a it's a tremendous transgression, you know, that weighs on his soul, but that's also the start of his of his of his salvation.

James Duke: 45:43

It's the casting, you know, moving in kind of to pre-production now. The casting is great. You talked a lot about Sean Bean. I it's really smart casting. And and I'm you might have looked at other people, but I'm just telling you, I it's really because we all everyone loves Sean Bean, but everyone knows who the sheriff of Donegan is. And so that pilot episode, it's such a great, I'm just telling you, this is a really good performance by Sean because you I you see him make the decisions that you kind of agree with some of his decisions. I do. Like his rationalization, I should say, or not, he's not twisting his, you know, he's not twisting the mustache. You see his thought process and the rationalization, he's not over the top. It's like this is what a man in that position would probably do. And he's not going to dig into any more of the secrets. He's gonna look at what's right in front of him, and he's going to execute his job. And you we kind of we can't really fault him yet because we love Sean Bean.

John Glenn: 46:59

You kind of can't, you can't. I mean, I think one of the important narrative character ideas or constructs in the pilot, you see, you see him, you see his view of Huntington, or you you understand his view of Huntington pretty quickly, which is that he doesn't like this guy. You know what I mean? That this guy is just a taker, that he that all that much of what he has isn't deserved. And then you also see him in a first scene with Hugh Loxley, Rob's father, you see empathy in him. You see that he sees in a man a man who's been wronged, and he tries to do the best that he can do for a man that's wrong, not a Saxon, you know, not a not a Norman, you know, it's a man, it's another human being in front of him. And he says, I'm gonna give you this position as a royal forest forester, you know, you're gonna have like a kind of a cool, a cool, a good life, you know, you're gonna have coin and and and you know, and this is and it's something that the sheriff of Nottingham, a person in his position at that time, would not have to do at all. He could just be like, get the hell out of here. We could just throw him in jail, but he doesn't do that. He shows him respect and deference. And I remember we were shooting that end scene when they drag Hugh into after he's been accused of murdering the guy in the cell, Spark Lurch. Sean was kind of struggling with that moment. And uh and he came over to me and we were talking, he said, I don't, I don't, I don't know. I'm sort of I'm not sure what I'm what I'm supposed to be doing. I'm like, You're so you're hurting. I mean, you're supposed to be hurting. I go, This is this is very hurtful and it's painful, and you don't want to do what you know that you're going to have to do. And so then he and he goes, Oh, God, okay, cheese, good. And then and then you see that performance, which I think is absolutely tremendous. You see the disappointment in him and the sadness in him when Hugh screams, you know, not my king, it's your king. You just see this, like it's painful because now he knows what he has to do. You know, he he has to, you know, he has to sort of hang this guy, which he doesn't want to do, you know, do it, you know, and so you see an actor like Sean, a character, a character with that kind of power, an actor with that kind of power, and you put them in a in a situation where they have to do something they don't want to do, then you can find you often find magic in performance.

James Duke: 49:21

By the way, I couldn't find his name on IMDb, but the actor who plays Rob's father, it was a shame. You know, it's I'm out no spoiler, no spoilers if anyone who hears this later doesn't know what happened, but hopefully he can come back in some way. He was brilliant. I the Jack, Jack as Jack Patton as Robin Hood, he's he's great. I I I have to say, and um, I want to be careful with how I say this, but with lots of shows like this that are going to that's going to have action, I'm just gonna say it. Sometimes the the the care the the individuals that are cast to play these roles don't come across as how do I uh as as masculine. Masculine, yeah, yeah. Like an actual man. Yeah, yeah. Because you admit the modern man that gets cast in something sometimes doesn't quite hold the weight. Jack seems great. This is great casting. Like he seems like, you know, guys, a guy that guys want to be, and uh and a guy that girls want to be with, right? Like that kind of tell us a little bit about looking for him, finding your finding your lead though.

John Glenn: 50:27

Well, that was the it's something that I've always leaned into is I mean, I love women, right? I mean, I love the power of women, the mystique of women, the, you know, the the capabilities of women. I love men, you know. I love I love real men, I love masculine men, I love strong men that you know, that for that, you know, it's it's not it's not so you know, everything's so cut and dry, binary ones and zeros, but there's a difference between men and women, and that's okay. You know, I mean that's like I don't know when that became not okay, but I I I cannot stand like the sort of beta qualities in a lot of you know men. And so that was the number one thing. I'm very vocal about this in Hollywood, and you know, and but it's changing. Finally, it's changing back to normal stuff where it's like, oh, it's okay if we like women that are like women and men that are like men, like there's that's okay. But the number one quality was like I felt like you had to have a you had to have a lead that was masculine, like a guy that you felt like has been punched in the face before, you know, that has and Jack is that guy. Jack is one of the sweetest, kindest, you know, human beings I've ever met. I'm not even saying that. He genuinely is, but he's an alpha male. I mean, he was a he was gonna go pro as an athlete. I mean, he's a he's a tough dude, you know. He's been around, you know. He he was raised without a father. His grandfather basically raised him. He had a very tough childhood, very loving mother, you know, but it sort of he had a tough go of it, and sports was his was his escape. And uh but before he was gonna go pro, he injured his knee, blew his knee out, and it and it kind of ruined his career. And he fell into acting. He had no desire to be an actor, just fell yeah, fell into it as a way to fill his time, you know, he didn't know what to do with himself, you know. And uh, but he had that masculine quality from the word go, you know, like you could you could sort of see yourself and you know following a guy like this, you know, or sort of listening to a guy like this. And I think with Lauren, who played Marion, she to me embodied so much just kind of amazing femininity, you know, and the power of that, the equal power, you know, it's like those things are very different, but they are equal. I mean, you know, obviously we were, in my opinion, it's like we were designed, you know what I mean? It's like you know, men and women designed to come together to create something better than than uh than we are as individuals. So that those those elements were very, very important, I mean, critically important. Because if not, I mean, you're just like, I don't know, are people really gonna follow this guy? It's like well, and she's wonderful.

James Duke: 53:04

And and what was really great to see in the pilot is you see the chemistry between both of them right away, and she's she's definitely her character, she definitely is his intellectual and emotional equal. But the world that they're in, they're both so far down the road. You're you you see the potential for conflict and all this, you know, good drama coming forward. But I I thought that the the the the few scenes and they're just together and they're towards the end there. I thought, I thought there was great chemistry, and that's gotta be fun to find that in the first episode, right?

John Glenn: 53:40

Yeah, incredible chemistry. It's like we actually we flew, she's from Liverpool, so she's she's only a few hours. I don't know, whatever. She's like a you know, 45-minute plane right away from London, and we flew Jack and her and a couple other people. We always knew it. I always knew it was gonna be Jack and Warren. Like for the moment I saw him, that was it. It was not a conversation, but you know, to sort of to cast two unknowns is very difficult, incredibly difficult. It takes a lot of frankly, like skill and polish, you know, to you know, you got to keep the powder dry, you have to be very smart, be very now. I will say Lionsgate and MGM were super supportive when it came right down to it, but you know, that was that was not easy. But the thing, you know, in a chemistry read, we threw flew them to London for a chemistry read. And Jack read with three other Marions and there were a couple other Robs and blah blah and so you know, and but the thing that Lauren had, and I always knew it was gonna be Lauren because I could see this in her. She had this quality where she can ground you, you know what I mean? She she could ground you because Jack is like live wire, you know what I mean? He's just like he he's like this Australian, he's like part crocodile dundee and part Steve Irwin or some shit. You know what I mean? Like he's just like a crazy dude. I mean, you know, but and so he's just so like you feel like he's going to explode. I mean, half the time, which is where I think that magnetism, I think the audience is and in testing and that sort of stuff, too. People are just so drawn to him. So, you know, men and women are just so drawn to him. But she like it just ground him, and you see it the minute they're next to each other, you know, we're in a room like the size of my office, and it's like they're just right there, and you're filming them doing the scene, and she just touch him, and he just you know, she would just saddle him in and catch his eyes, and she would force him to hold her eyes, you know, and that's and that speaks to her power, like the the nature of the power within this young woman. She's incredible, and she's she's so she's so lovely too, such a wonderful person. And uh, you know, so then I then when they when the studio network saw the chem read, was when it was like, okay, yeah, we're gonna we're we're gonna take the chance because before it was like, you know, as actors, you guys would all know, and there's a lot of people that wanted it because Robinhood is, you know, in particular the with the British actors, you know, they it's just like everyone's you know, everyone wants to be Maid Marian and everyone wants to be Robin Hood. I mean, they grew up with it. So yeah, so it was like they that those two together, it's like magic, and I think their love story as it goes, and they're separated and in this, I mean, I'm no spoilers, but they're separated in three the the episode tomorrow. They're separated and she goes to Westminster, sent there by her father. It's almost punishment, and you know, they're not back together for I think three three episodes, three or four episodes, they don't see one another. And that that by the way, that was a huge fight for the studio too. They're like, oh no, the rob they have to be together. I'm like, no, they actually don't have to be together. It's like that's kind of the whole thing, it's gonna make the audience want them to be together, you know, and then they can pine for one another, and you know, so yeah, but it's just that finding that that that energy, that energetic quality with skill, not it's not easy.

James Duke: 56:55

It's and it's gotta be fun to find really good actors and be excited about, you know, I get to you know you get to write dialogue and you get to visualize scenes that with these guys and and how well how good they are. Let me let's take a question from Patrick. I he's live from Sherwood Forest, John. I don't know if you can see him right off.

Patrick: 57:13

Derby in Sherwood Forest from the image I could gallery I could find. John, thanks for being here today. I I love the pilot. You mentioned a little bit about the the Anglo-Saxon religion and kind of Robin's conversion to Christianity, which is interesting because in the pilot in episode two, I'm not sure if I want that yet. And I'm coming at this from a Christian filmmaker perspective. But that element of it, the the forced conversion aspect of Anglo-Saxons having to adopt this new Norman religion was just so interesting. And and it really drew drew me through those episodes. I was, I was, I was very excited about it. I was curious about how much research goes into that, going back to you know, Anglo-Saxon religion, the Norman conquest. And when you when you knew that that was going to be such a driving force and and the touch point of so many of the characters in the story.

John Glenn: 58:08

Well, I mean, a lot of research because I, you know, I knew I knew Robin Hood, right? You know what I mean? But I sort of my my knowledge of Robin Hood was like, you know, the Kevin Coster movie. You know, it's like, you know, I mean, I didn't know I didn't know a ton about I mean, I'm I'm you know, I'm well read and I, you know, we're writers, so we all read and we love history. And so I knew a little, you know, I guess an okay, uh a certain level, right? But I had to read tons of books, and we went all the way back to the original ballads. I mean, you know, most of our understanding of Robin Hood comes from the 20th century. You know, it's sort of the movies of, you know, it's Aerolflyn or whatever, and a Disney movie, whatnot. So we went all the way back and really started to read kind of the first mentions of him and historical texts and these ballads and that sort of thing. And uh, and then I started reading about you know, King Richard and and uh, you know, John, Prince John, and you know, he becomes a king as well, and Eleanor of Aquitaine, and so a lot of that stuff was happening around the same time, and you know, so it it felt like a really interesting opportunity to to sort of bring those worlds together in a real way. And that's what starts to happen over the course of the season. And in this conversion story, it's uh it's slow, you know what I mean? It's a very slow burn. Like he he doesn't just convert to Christianity, you know. I mean, he's going to he's going to fight that. I mean, he's very committed to his sort of pagan, you know, kind of God, you know, forest worship stuff. But it but in my mind, like even Gotda, Godd is an angel. Do you know what I mean? She's not, she, you know, she's not, she's not some mystical forest spirit, because I don't believe in mystical forest spirits, but but I do believe in angels, and I, you know, I believe there are times when they intercede and maybe, you know, make themselves, you know, make us aware of their presence or or and they're bringing something to us. And so that, you know, somewhere along. Along the line, it's his interaction with Tuck. Tuck comes in in episode 104, played by another phenomenal British actor. And it's a slow burn. You know, it's a very, very slow, slow burn. But I think it's a, I think it's a really interesting story to be able to tell. I think the challenge too is just not making the church sort of just the typical, you know, here comes the Christian church and they're such they're such bad guys, because, you know, everyone was a good guy and a bad guy back then. You know, things weren't entirely, I don't think everything was just so clear in that type of a world. I mean, that's a world talk about real, you know, based upon real power, you know, and and and sort of, you know, it's, you know, it's, you know, an infraction back in that day can get you killed. You don't get a parking ticket, you know. So I think it it has to be a slow burn, has to be earned, and it has to, it has to not alienate the non-Christian viewer, which I think is always a challenge. And I and I think it's always a great mistake that a lot of Christian, not to be critical, you know, but I think a lot of Christian writers make a huge mistake in that regard. You know what I mean? It's like they tend to sort of overtly kind of throw just too much messaging, but it's the same thing Hollywood does with their woke insanity, you know, or you, you know, you sit down to watch a show and suddenly they're talking about these ridiculous, you know, political constructs that you just, you know what I mean? It's like you just don't want to hear it. So I think you, I think there's a much smarter way into it. There's a much smarter way to tell that story, telling it through flawed characters who have made mistakes that you've seen, you know, and maybe don't even like them for it at certain times. And to to tell that story of redemption, I think it can be, I don't know. I mean, I think it can make a difference to a like, you know, certainly to like a Christian viewer. But, you know, the goal, of course, is always that do you spark an interest in like a non-believer out there? And does that lead that person onto some type of self-discovery that might lead them, you know, towards a more Christian perspective? And that's kind of, and I do that in everything I write. It's I haven't I can't remember anything I've written that doesn't have some thematic, some code of theme, you know, built into it, you know, that you know, that is an exploration of that.

James Duke: 1:02:25

Looks good. Thank you. Justin, you had a question. Go ahead.

Justin: 1:02:28

Yeah, so I was wondering a bit about the process of developing this, like when you first had the idea and pitching it and taking it out. Did you have just several episodes written, or was it just a pilot at first? And then also how much research did you do with? I know you're familiar with the Robin Hood story, but did you go back and watch some of those other ones, even if you had critiques of them or reread things or anything like that?

John Glenn: 1:03:01

Well, the pro the process was so this project in particular was as much about the story, the characters, you know, Robin Hood, as it was about this business that I have in Serbia, right? So we wrote four episodes, and but we didn't share four. We just shared the the pilot in episode 102, but I did the budget, you know, I did the the the pilot budget and a full series budget, and you know, had this production plan and I and I and I've worked in Serbia in Belgrade, so I understand it there, which gives them comfort. It's not like it's just, oh, let's just go to Serbia. You know, this is an incredibly risk-averse business. So you have to kind of find ways, even in the pitch, right? Even in when you're going in in the initial stages of development to assuage their fears and to, you know, signal that you understand the risks, you know, that that are, and that you've already sort of accounted for for for said risks. So the development piece of it was, you know, starting this business with Jonathan English over there, identifying, okay, what's the first project we're going to go to the town with? And we had Cabin Fever with Eli kind of on deck, but I just didn't think Cabin Fever was the best first choice, you know, when it came right down to it. And timing was a piece of it. And, you know, so we went out with it's as much a piece of business as it is a TV show. It's like this is a show that's going to look like it costs $10 million an episode and it's going to cost 75% less than that, you know? And that's very appealing to any studio or any streamer because they understand that for you know, one for the cost of one episode of Stranger Things, they can get 10 episodes, essentially, you know, so they can have an entire series. And they also understand the studio in particular understands that they're going to be in profit before we even start shooting. Because we were, we were basically, you know, we had a domestic anchor. It's called, so you kind of always need no matter what, is a domestic anchor, you know, like you know, Amazon US or Netflix, whatever. Because the first thing overseas, if you go to BBC or ZDF or whoever, you know, ITV, they're the first question they're gonna ask is who's the domestic anchor? Because they want to make sure that you have an American counterpoint because still the American influence globally with entertainment is just so powerful. So without that domestic anchor, it's it's tricky. So we went, we went with uh excuse me, with MGM Plus, and they licensed it, you know, per episode from us. And so their licensing fee per episode didn't cover the entire budget, but it was close. So we only had to pick up a few hundred thousand dollars more, and then we sold to I forget who we had an we well, we actually well it ended up being at MGM Plus International because they outbid BPC. So just with those two pieces, we were already even, and then we owned the rest of the world. So we controlled, like you know, so then we went to Mipcom a month ago or six weeks ago, I can't remember when it was, and sold the rest of the world. You know, so the show was in profit. All of the risk was mitigated before we even started shooting. Like we had we'd cobbled together from two sources the basically the budget of the show. And so everything else was essentially profit that you don't spend on on you know advertising, marketing, that sort of thing. I didn't, you know, it's weird. Like I did, I didn't, I deliberately didn't go back and watch any of the Robin Hood stuff. You know, I just have I have fond memories of the Kevin Coster, you know, version of of course seeing the Aero Flynn version, but I just didn't think it'd be helpful because you know, my approach to it was completely different. It was just a completely different origin, it was an origin story approach, you know, and that and and I don't that to me, I don't it's I don't know a version, I can't remember a version where there's ever been an origin story. You kind of sort of anecdotally, you know, in an anecdotal sense, understand I don't know, why he's Robin Hood, but you don't really understand it. Like you don't really feel it, you don't experience it, you're not, you're not there with him. And uh and so all most of the inspiration was really about trying to understand how can we bring real history into it. Because the where the show ends, which I think you always have to know is it ends with Robin Hood standing beside King John, Prince John in season one, when he signs the Magna Carta. You know what I mean? So it's like which was really the first document that sought to to to protect individual rights, you know. That's cool, that's really cool. This whole story ultimately is like it's and I think you have to have all of these kind of multiple dimensional concepts going on that so it's an origin story, sure, rot about Robin Hood, but it's also an origin story about the Magna Carta, you know, and it's an origin story of the obsession. Where does this obsession that the sheriff has for Robin Hood? Where does that come from? So we're telling that he doesn't have full I'm going to hunt and kill Robin Hood until the end of season two. And I just broke season two. And by the end of season two, you fully understand why he becomes this this this legendary iconic figure obsessed with kill, and that's his story in season three. It's just old-fashioned, sheriff. I'm going to find you and I'm going to kill you. You know, and of course he doesn't because it's Robin Hood, because he can't Robin Hood can't die, you know.

James Duke: 1:08:37

I mean, there's so how many episodes do you plan per season? Ten. So 10. Oh, that's good. That's good. Eliza, you had a question?

Eliza: 1:08:48

Yeah, it was more of a comment about just like the Anglo-Saxon mysticism with Christianity. I don't know if you've read that hideous strength, but like how they how C.S. Lewis handles it, I I thought is interesting and similar to what you were saying.

John Glenn: 1:09:04

Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of I mean, I've read all of you know Lewis's stuff and and I'll and I'm obviously influenced by a lot of you know Christian apologists, Christian thinkers, and and from the time I was a kid, you know. It just is something that motivates me. But yeah, I mean, I think that, you know, you take you definitely I definitely take borrow stuff that goes through, you know what I mean, that comes through me in terms of ideas, right? I mean, it's sort of like I mean, if there's there's always some sense of of something that was written before me that that finds its way onto every page I write, you know, but it's almost always thematic. It's not words characters are saying, or you know, or it's it's thematic. It's like it goes back to that thing that we talked about earlier, which is like, why are you why are you writing? I mean, like, why are you writing this thing? Because if you don't know why, you shouldn't write it. And it doesn't mean that you did that, doesn't mean that you're not a writer. It just means I don't know why I'm writing this. I mean, I've started scripts and gotten 60 pages into them, and I don't even know. And I'm like, I don't even know why I'm writing this. It's like I'm bored. I suddenly I get bored. And uh and I learned, I think the the hard way is I just throw those away. I just stop writing them. I just stop. I'm like, you know, I've been I've written multiple props features. So I get 30 pages in, and I'm like, like this is dumb. I mean, it just doesn't mean it doesn't mean anything to me, you know. And if it doesn't mean anything to me, it's definitely not gonna mean anything to you or to anyone else. It's just not gonna matter, you know. So I think that it's finding that, you know. I mean, it's like when I wrote Clash of the Titans, it's uh Perseus, you know, he's he's kind of a mess, you know, very flawed figure, and he goes on this whole crazy quest, you know, and faces down Medusa and whatever, and and he and there's this kind of father figure type character at his side, older man, and uh kind of his mentor, and and he ends up being killed. But at the but there's this great scene at the end when he's completely Perseus is just like, I mean, beat to hell. I mean, he's he's basically left for dead, covered in in wounds, and he's been basically tortured. You know, the woman that he fell in love with has been kidnapped, taken back by this horrible, terrible antagonist, this guy Calabus, and it's just this guy's a horrible person. And then he has this vision of his of his mentor who's dead. It's not even a vision, it's like a material he he comes to see him, and you realize that that guy with him was God. I mean, that it's like you mean I don't say it's God, but it's like very, very clear that it's God, and that this entire time he's had God walking by him. And I'll say it's Jesus or it's a Christian God, or it's because it doesn't, right? It doesn't matter. And I remember like the studio execs just absolutely flipped out over that when they read, they just loved it. They're like, oh my God, it's just like, you know, and and it's kind of the same with Gotha in Robin Hood. It's like she she's presented as oh, she's this pagan, whatever, and she's walking, you know. But to me, she's she's an angel. I mean, you know, she's been sent to help these people and and to and to and to in some way bring them, you know, closer to what I think is the truth. And so I that's like that's why I wrote Colossus the Titans was that moment. I wrote that whole script for that moment, and then everything became about serving that moment and getting that character to that place where he got back up off the ground, you know what I mean? And it's like, and he he, you know, he got he got back onto the horse and he literally goes back to face an entire army alone. But I mean, literally alone. And so it's a really, it's a really, really powerful moment. And like, and I could still say like that's why I wrote that, that's why I wrote that script. There's no other reason. It was that was the only reason, you know. I didn't care if I get paid. I you know what I mean. They could have paid me any. I didn't, they could have paid me anything. I remember when I found out how much I was gonna get paid for it. I was like, I remember, yeah, I got they have to pay me that much, you know. I mean, I don't get also so it's that's that stuff. I mean, yeah, and that all comes from, I think, just you know, we probably all have a lot in common in terms of our backgrounds and and what animates us, you know, or is important to us. And so I think finding that is really important too, because I think you get into the dog days of a script, like, you know, even me, I've been doing it for 27 years, and I've I've sold almost 80 projects film intelligent intelligence projects, and but I still get I still have two things that happen to me. I look at a blank screen, I think I'm a fraud. I'm just like, I'm just like, how am I actually gonna fill these pages? And it's kind of intimidating and scary. And then I get halfway through it and I just am like, I I, you know, it just it's still intimidating halfway through because I don't know if what I've done is right is right, and I don't know if what I'm gonna do is right. And that's where for me personally, it's like I always lean on I find God in those moments, you know. It's just sort of like I just kind of close my eyes and just say a prayer and move through it.

James Duke: 1:14:16

That's really good advice. That's actually great advice. Let's talk a little bit. You've already talked, you know, obviously about some production, but I'm just curious about just some of the the specifics. So 10 episodes, about excuse me, how many days are you shooting per episode? The I know the old school TV way, the old broadcast 22 episode was it was like every eight days, and there was like always there was either an episode being written being shot or in post, and it was kind of like you had to keep that machine going. For you guys, are you doing anything like that? Or is everything all written? Is the cake baked before you even start shooting the is episode eight written and all good before you even start shooting the pilot? Or and then how many days did it take to shoot each episode? Just curious about your thoughts on that.

John Glenn: 1:15:07

Well, we had we had a particularly challenging schedule because there were three or four people that wanted it, you know, and the reason we went with MGM Plus is uh they would give us 10 episodes, and so if you're gonna I mean, it requires the same amount of work to build and prep and shoot eight as it does really 15 when it comes right down to it, because the only difference is the writing, right? That's the only difference there. So MGM Plus would do 10, and I'm like, I'm just going where there's 10, you know, we could have gone to Amazon. It's still Amazon in a way, but Amazon and Netflix are pretty committed to eight. And that you know, and so I just it's just it's just financially better for me to do 10. And it's but it's it's there's just the workload is not that different. This this was a little bit different in that we so the head of MGM Plus was like, I'll green light. He called me and said, I'll green light, I want to green light this. I'll green light it if you tell me you can deliver it. This we sold it in July of 24, and he said, if you can deliver it in the third quarter of 25. And I said, Yeah, what oh damn, don't worry about it. Yeah, 100, which honestly was, I don't want to say it was a lie, but it definitely wasn't the truth. Definitely not the truth. So it's a little bit like you don't want to lie, but but the reality is if I'd said no, I'd say oh it's tough because the reality was it's more like first quarter of 26 would have made a lot more sense. But the minute you the minute you do that, your show can go away, right? I mean, it's like they had a they had a window, they want something for then. So we started prepping soft prep in August of last of 24. And you know, we didn't start building till the end of October, and we were shooting February 17th. So we only had four scripts written when we started, and so it was it was it was it was tough because I I had you know I had to go out to Belgrade and hire and all that kind of stuff, and to come back here and and go, you know, be in the room with Kenny and Jacob, and it was just Kenny and Jacob and I, you know, it wasn't a larger room, and uh, you know, the season wasn't really broken, it sort of had a kind of an idea what was gonna happen, and so we had to break the entire season, then I had to rewrite the first four to kind to sort of work fluidly with where everything was else was going. And then we had six scripts, and I think we had five written when we started production, and so I'm there, I'm there at that point. I left I was there January 9th or 10th, and you know, so I was writing, I was literally writing till two weeks before we started shooting the last episode. Now, the way that we from a production perspective, like you know, most network shows are like eight days, and you know, it's kind of that's that's tricky, but you know, there it's it's less there's there's there's I don't want to say there's less to, you know, but CSI or whatever, it's like that's a different show than Robinhood. It's just that is more kind of about what happens next, right? It's like it's a mystery, it's this, it's whatever. There's some character work, of course, but the audiences are really tuning in for more for the plot when it comes down to it. But this is, you know, it's more prestige television. So you have to really, really tell those character stories. So we had 11 days an episode, but I also built in into the budget 35 uh second unit days. And then I put in the budget the money for those second unit days, much it's much cheaper than what would it cost here. It was more expensive than what it would cost there because I knew for a fact that what I was selling as second unit days would ultimately become main unit days. We'd be running two full main units. Smart. Yeah, and what and what we ended up doing is running two full main units for 28 of those second unit days. Wow. I could be I could talk to a director and just say, What you know, we could I could look at a schedule right away and say, we're definitely not making this day, it's just not happening, so let's just be smart. And they would kick it to the second unit day. And because I because we're working in Belgrade, we're not subject to DGA rules, so I could go direct all the second unit stuff. I could just go, cool, I'm gonna go direct whatever, three scenes today from three different episodes that are owed. And you can't do that here because the DGA restricts you from that, right? Here, and I'm DGA, so here no one can direct an episode or a scene in a film that I'm directing. No other director can come in and do that. It's a much more collaborative thing in Eastern Europe in particular. Directors are used to doing that, like they all kind of work together, they all kind of know each other, and and it's not, it's just kind of not a big deal. But it enabled us that's that's why, and you'll see as even when you get to Westminster, the scope just expands, it expands. It's a huge world, but we were able to do it because of that. type of planning, you know, but that has to be really, really thought out. And you have to plan it. And we can make assumptions. I could make assumptions as a show runner, as a producer on those first four scripts and almost tell you the re the sort of needs, the production needs of you know five through 10. And then so I could make assumptions and I knew that we would have to have I knew we were going to have to find ways. I didn't want to go to them to the studio and say we need 14 days per because what you're doing then is you're adding you know 14 days would more like so that's 30 more days. That's essentially seven more weeks of studio rentals, studio space, trucks, gat blah, blah, blah. That's a different conversation versus oh, we just have these second unit days for action. You know, they're like, oh cool, yeah, action. Yeah, it takes time. But the majority of that second unit stuff was devoted to character scenes, which is kind of kind of wild. So it's all you just learn that presentation matters. Yeah. Yeah.

James Duke: 1:21:04

And the flow of the flow of knowing because I think the key one of the key things you said right there is just looking at the day and going, you're not going to get all this. Right. That that that just that's just experience that just says to you, hey, we got to find a way to get this to work. And I love that you pre-planned it. And I think that's the key for a lot of people you got to pay attention to this everybody who's listening pay attention to your pre-planned that's what pre-production is for. You've got to think through scenarios.

John Glenn: 1:21:38

It's everything. I mean if like I said if you get there and you don't if you're on set and you don't other than someone getting sick or some kind of act of God someone you know breaks their foot or whatever, you can't predict any of that. But if you get to the set and you start shooting and you don't know what's going to happen, I can tell you what's going to happen total chaos. It's like you're going to be in big trouble real quick. And then the minute you're in trouble, if you lose the in particular with the actors if you lose their confidence like you're in trouble like in a real way. And it's not just about how you interact with them with character. It's like how you're running a show. It's like does it feel calm? Does it feel like you know what you're doing? Is everyone having a good time? I mean does the work does it does you know do the sets look great? You know, are the costumes they look great. That's all confidence and that's a huge part of it. It's a total it's a complete confidence game. And again with actors it doesn't really matter who they are acting is a very it's not that actors are insecure. It's just that acting is a very vulnerable thing to do. I mean you're standing in front of a bunch of people you know exposing yourself and you're being emotional at times and you're trying to find these things within yourself that maybe are you know maybe are somewhat private or uncomfortable and you do it in front of like an entire crew. So if you if they don't feel safe with you you're in a lot of trouble but equally if the crew doesn't feel safe with you if the crew doesn't understand that you know what you're doing that we're going to finish on time we're going to finish early you know you're just going to be in trouble.

James Duke: 1:23:12

No I think we have another question from Deanne. Deanne did you have another question?

Deanne: 1:23:18

It's not really a question but to share as an audience a viewer of the first episode of Robin Hood it inspired me because in different places I have my notes here so I don't forget the human behavior well first let me say this congratulations and in not making it cheesy.

John Glenn: 1:23:37

Yeah exactly right

Deanne: 1:23:38

I really you know Robin Hood everybody knows Robin Hood. I have the basics but I've learned so much from your TV series Robin Hood the depth of it and I learned I I didn't care about Robin Hood as much but now with your TV show I got mad finding out that I have to wait a whole week for the second episode but I didn't see it yet but I'm going to but I wanted to binge watch all of your episodes is it all made I know you said that there's 10 episodes is it all in post production right now

John Glenn: 1:24:16

yeah everything we're we're just we just locked the 109 the ninth episode and we're doing final visual effects for 110 final music for 110 and you know just the five all of that then doing the film film grade stuff on it so it's it'll be done what is the date 110 will be delivered on the 27th of this the 26th of this month you know so we're past a lot of the chaos I mean it was and it was chaotic it was delivering for that third quarter was crazy. It was just it was crazy making but it again it had to be done you know I mean and it's not just for about you because I look at it you know if you get a show going you get a movie going it's like hundreds of people are employed for months you know doing what they love to do. And you have and and it really does kind of become like a family and so you kind of all develop these really deep bonds because you're literally you spend 17 18 hours a day with people for weeks months and it's like I mean you spend so much time with people and so you tend to bond very very quickly and and I immediately start the minute I start to hire people you start to feel this pressure which I think is good. It's not bad pressure it's good pressure but you start to feel that you also have to deliver for them you know which you do like it is part of the job right I mean you have to deliver a great show for them you have to deliver a great environment for them you know it's like you have to make it special for them.

Deanne: 1:25:49

So you bought uh you sold the show July 2024 I want to know so you're done this month post-production so that's about a year and a half of pre-production production and post production is that right

John Glenn: 1:26:06

about but we didn't start official prep so we sold it and then they had to do of course MGM and Lionsgate had to do all of their contracts which took two months to do but we started to bump up against like a real deadline where I was like look you have to give me like $3000. And I remember Kenny you know I remember he sent me October 21st or no September 21st he sent me this email that I put them on because I put them on a lot of my emails with the heads of the studios and stuff so they can see kind of the behind the scenes of it all. And I get permission from you know my executives because I think it's a part of like kind of you know building them up and so they understand really kind of just so they get a they look behind the curtain. And he forwarded me this email on September 21st a year ago 24 when I I wasn't like yelling or whatever but I was being very like I need 4000 wired to this UK account. This is the thing too it's like we had UK accounts and survey and they were just like they'd never done anything like this. So they're just like where's this money going like who's and I'm like don't worry about it. But I was like I need four thousand dollars today for lumber and that was what it was about I go I need lumber it has to be the trucks have to leave tomorrow and they have to be in Belgrade by the following day to start building or we're not shooting and I'm like that is that simple you know so and that was a honestly like an almost a full day conversation when I should have been writing to get $4000 wired you know because they hadn't quite finished their negotiations with MGM plus and but they're arguing over you know words and stuff and it's like we're making the show you know so we really started prep soft prep this this top of September with wardrobe and uh and and and set designs and you know whatever production design all of that and then those people were working for free for three or four weeks because we didn't have the money. But we're just like you know but we had to start and they were they were cool enough to just jump in you know but you know and then we moved into the studio and we were in pain for the studio. We were like moved to the studio in Belgrade and just told the head of the studio the where we shot PFI studios like you know we have to get in there now to start working and and they're like all right cool. So they let us go in there for a month for free. So but yeah so really really real prep started the moment that would the literally the moment the lumber trucks left for for wherever they get the lumber somewhere in Serbia. Wow you so I know we're gonna we're gonna wrap up here soon but I'm just curious you you know the the streaming the concept of streaming is a little bit nebulous in terms of people knowing the numbers I don't you know Netflix is famous for not giving numbers and and so I'm just curious you you we're we're we're we're interviewing you now and the first two episodes are out I believe and like what's your uh do you get numbers what's your what's your sense on the audience and the response from the audience as well as from the studio and you know I think you mentioned you broke season two is there will there be a season two yeah I mean I think it's it's tricky with because it's an aggregate right so they aggregate and this one in particular is a little trickier because Amazon loves it so much that they they wanted to show it give the first episode the pilot for free or I think on Prime right so they're super supportive they're marketing it all around the world very aggressively and and so it's and it's also available I think a pay-per-view in some places maybe even on prime I don't I don't quite remember or recall well at the same time it's on mgm plus domestic mgm plus you know in like a few territories internationally then then on like zdf in germany and what so you have to aggregate all of that information they love it i mean they absolutely love it like this the network in the studio absolutely love it amazon loves it you know they think that it's they just you know that it's just if you see the whole season I think you guys will like it it is very well done it's very thoughtful put it that way you know I mean it's like there's a lot of energy a lot of effort and a lot of time that went into it and but my sense is that there will be that they did they did pay me and Kenny and Jacob to go into a mini room in September. So we were in a room for four weeks I started writing season two right when I got back from Serbia the like August 4th I started kind of working on it then the first week of September the three of us were in a room right a writer's room and we kind of we broke we took all that and then further broke it and and then I wrote it and took turned into a 23 page season two document and gave that to them last week. So my sense is there will be a season two and I think part of it is of course it's like they love the show but I think the other part of it is it's the price point too you know it's like they have to have shows right and so I mean I don't know a show that's less than four or five million an episode these days and that's cheap these days. That's very very cheap.

James Duke: 1:31:24

Yeah I just read that HBO Max was looking for they called them prestigals or something which is their pit no no they're it's a prestige it's a combination of prestige procedural yeah and because of the pit and they but they're but they're they're they're capping it at four million an episode they're like they gotta be you got to bring which I you know you and I remember when that was unheard of I remember hearing about I think it was Star Trek the next generation or something was the first million dollar an episode TV show or something kind of crazy. And now like you said that's on the low end now. Four million is on the low end and so if you can bring a show in under four that's a huge huge breakthrough per episode.

John Glenn: 1:32:06

Yeah it's huge because it puts them it puts them in profit mitigates the risk and so there's no and part of the business model that for my company there is if there's no risk financially and and maybe it's not even the biggest hit in the world right maybe it's not like you know whatever peaky blinders or what or whatever but as long as there's an audience and they're making money there's no reason for them not to order another season. And we're well I mean I can just tell you that we're well under three million dollars an episode well under that number and you know but it looks I would I mean it's I've made stuff that costs 14 million you know what I mean for one episode of television and and it looks better than than all than a lot of that. So if you can deliver those two things and they have a good experience and they like it that's the like that's the that's the best path the best path toward a renewal is is it's the finances are are a huge or a huge piece. It's very tough to do anything for four million dollars an episode here unless it's one location interior. You know what I mean it's like it's you know and even then it's tricky you're gonna have to be in Atlanta or Vancouver or something like that, which is fine but but four million is even and I know that too because I I sat down with a with the head of Fox not long ago and he's the same. He's like they're gonna they want four million episode period and they have a $5000 pool for actors and they don't that's it. So say if one big actor maybe that actor gets I don't know $350,000 an episode which is not a lot for a named TV actor which sounds crazy but it's it's not a lot for a named TV actor. I mean the last the last network pilot I did the actor was getting $450 an episode you know and yeah so it's like he's making seven eight nine million a year. He's the he's the cost of the lumber yeah literally he literally but the cost of the lumber that was all the lumber for all the sets too like it was that's all it costs which is kind of crazy if you think about it. So yeah I think I think that's becoming the new norm. So I think even in your conception you have to when you're conceiving of a show you may want to do like you need to you it's like you need to a lot of younger writers kind of go into it and they're like I'm gonna change this you're not gonna change the system like it's just you're not I mean it's like except the pit kind of changed the system in a way right but that was John Wells like that's John Wells. Like he's already he is the system he gets yeah and and he's changing it and making it cheaper like he's not going oh here's this thing I'm gonna do it's gonna cost 20 million an episode it's like here's this thing I'm gonna do and it's gonna be five million or whatever which is a total bargain for HBO.

James Duke: 1:34:44

Right a total bargain you know yep John this has been fantastic it's it's been just a masterclass of so many different things that we talk about at act one and just congratulations on the show. It's uh it it I've only seen the pilot and I'm looking I'm looking forward to seeing the other episodes because it really was a fun show. So congratulations and we one of the things that we like to do at Act One is we like to pray for our guests at the end of the class. Would you allow me to pray for you? Yeah I would appreciate that Heavenly Father we just pause and just thank you for the chance to once again be together and to learn and grow as artists and as filmmakers and as storytellers. God we thank you for the chance to meet with John. We pray a blessing upon him and his life and his family and we pray this in Jesus' name and your promises we stand. Amen. Thank you for listening to the Act One podcast celebrating over 20 years as the premier training program for Christians in Hollywood Act One is a Christian community of entertainment industry professionals who train and equip storytellers to create works of truth, goodness and beauty. The Act One program is a division of Master Media International to financially support the mission of Act One or to learn more about our programs visit us online at Act One Program dot com and to learn more about the work of Master Media go to mastermedia