How to Give Notes to Screenwriters Panel Discussion (Owen Shiflett, Clare Sera and Quinton Peeples)

Act One Podcast - Episode 50 - Special Episode featuring a panel discussion on the topic of "How to Give Notes to Screenwriters" with producer/creative executive Owen Shiflett, screenwriter Clare Sera, and screenwriter/producer Quinton Peeples.

Great storytelling thrives on great feedback. This class explores how to give notes that inspire, not deflate—how to challenge writers without crushing their voice. We’ll break down what makes notes useful, how to communicate them effectively, and how to turn criticism into creativity. This panel discussion was recorded on Tuesday, October 28th, 2025, as part of our Act One Producing and Entertainment Executive Program.

About our panelists:

OWEN SHIFLETT has been the SVP of Production and Development at both Blue Monday Productions and Content Superba. Prior to that, Owen held positions as VP of Development at Shudder and Sundance Now, where he oversaw the creation of original content for both platforms. Owen also served as the Head of Television at Parkes MacDonald and Director of Development at AMC Networks.

CLARE SERA has written in the family film genre for nearly every studio in Hollywood, including writing BLENDED, the Sandler/Barrymore family rom-com and SMALLFOOT, the animated family film. She has contributed to dozens of films, both animated and live action in this genre. She has written a screen adaptation of The Shadowmaker (by author Ron Hansen) for Goodman Pictures and is developing a feature take on the Nativity story for Southland Studios.

QUINTON PEEPLES has written multiple features for all the major networks and studios including Fox, NBC, ABC, Disney, Lionsgate and many others. He found his way to directing in 1995 when he shot his original screenplay “JOYRIDE” starring Tobey Maguire and Benicio DelToro. Quinton has worked on multiple shows as varied as “FLASHFORWARD,” “UNFORGETTABLE,” “THE LAST SHIP,” “11/22/63,” and Marvel’s “RUNAWAYS.” Most recently he ran the limited series “ECHOES” for Netflix. 

The Act One Podcast provides insight and inspiration on the business and craft of Hollywood from a Christian perspective.

Transcript

Truth, Love, And Tough Notes

Quinton Peeples 0:02

This is a Dallas Willard quote. The truth spoken without love is always going to be brutal. What he means by that really is the Christian conception of love, meaning actively working for and hoping for the good of the other. So if you speak the truth without that, it's going to be brutal. And I have suffered with that consistently around these kinds of phone calls and also indulging in it myself. So I have been the victim of and the perpetrator, sometimes on the same show.

Panel And Class Context

Producer–Writer Dynamics

Worst Notes: Context And Specificity

James Duke 0:45

This is the Act One podcast. I'm your host, James Duke. Thanks for listening. Please don't forget to subscribe to the podcast and leave us a good review. Today's podcast is a special one. It's another sneak peek. Instead of a typical interview with a filmmaker, this episode features a panel discussion we had for a class back in November for our producing students on how to give notes to screenwriters. Our panelists are Owen Schifflett, Claire Sterra, and Quentin Peoples. I hope you enjoy this little sneak peek of our Act One Producing and Entertainment Executive Program. It's good to see everyone. And I'm so glad that we can meet tonight. We're really excited about this class. This is our first panel conversation. We're going to have a couple of these. So this is a conversation that I think is a good conversation for us to have for aspiring producers and creative executives. And that is the relationship between producer and writer. The relationship between executive and writer. When it comes to working in the business, as we all know, what we we've often said, if you if you want to just go write and not have anyone saying, go write novels. But if you are okay with writing in a system where lots of people get their hands on your projects and give feedback, then that's what writing, that's what writing screenplays is for film and television. And so what we have here today is a panel full of people who have sat on both sides of that table, as writers who have have who have sat through lots and lots of note sessions, whether it be with producers or studios or showrunners, and as well as people who've had to give those notes, who have had to read scripts, who have had to help writers kind of shape or reshape a project. So that's that's the kind of the the reason why we're talking tonight. So I'm grateful for all of you guys for being a part. I want to start off with kind of a big question, just kind of right off the bat. Claire and Quentin, you guys are kind of representing my writers, although I know Quentin, you've done a lot of producing as well in television. And so I'll ask you guys this question first. What's like the best note you were ever given as a writer? And what was possibly the worst note you were ever given by a writer? And uh, Claire, ladies first, would you like to like to go first?

Clare Sera 3:17

I'm no lady. Yeah, yeah. Worst note. You know, my long answer for this is when someone reads the script without context of where the script is sitting or or or what the where the writer is in the process, if some, you know, so truly the worst note I think I ever got was on it was on a project for Sony, and it was a family film, which I was writing quite a few of those back in the day. And the executive said this would be a better rom com.

Owen Shiflett 4:01

So okay. Wait, I don't understand that. Why why was that bad?

James Duke 4:15

Owen's asking that seems like a legitimate note to Owen.

Clare Sera 4:32

And is not reading it within context. It's like you hired me to write, I pitched you a family film, you hired me to write a family film, we talked tone. I mean, this was this didn't come out of the blue, we talked tone, we talked outline, and I have delivered you the a family film, and they the the executive was not interested in family films, is really what the issue was. They wanted to to do rom coms. That's fine, but the project they were on was not was not a rom-com. That's not, I had not been hired to write that. And I love rom-coms, but and it so it meant that they were not seeing the project, and they were also not seeing all the work that I had done, like they just ignored everything that had been done. Now, if they had come and said, you know what, this relationship, this character is really interesting, and this, you know, secondary character over here in this B story is has kind of caught my attention. What do you think? If a relationship had is there, you know, if they had talked with me from where my script was, yeah, they could have moved me to that place and I could have been excited to explore the rom-com aspect. So it wasn't even that the note was horrible, it was that it was out of context. It put me uh on guard and defensive, and I didn't know how to respond to it, except with that blank stare that we writers get sometimes faced with an executive. And I'm sure you will all experience it sometime. Our eyes just go back. They roll back like a shark back into the back of our skull. It's like, I'm not here anymore. Because I just think it's so important to read the actual script, have your thoughts, let the writer know you read the script, you read the work that they did, you see what's there, and then you can talk, you know, about what's right or wrong, you know, about it. That's why it was a bad note to me. It I don't know if they if they properly even read it.

James Duke 6:47

Yeah, and I I I I that's a fear that I think you val you're validating the fear of a lot of people, right? Like, did you actually read this the script that I gave you, right? Quentin, do you have a do you have a horror script?

Are We Making The Same Show?

Broad Notes Versus Actionable Fixes

Quinton Peeples 7:02

You know, I I'm gonna dovetail on on what Claire said because when she used the word context, it's super important because the what she's addressed both globally and specifically is there is this constant question that lies around the notes process, which is are we making the same movie? Yes, are we making the same television show? Every single notes uh session you will go through will have that underneath. It's it's an assessment of are we on the same page on this? Do we see this the same way? In television, that actually expands out across all of season one, where you're having this very long conversation with the network or streamer about what show we're actually making. Are we making the same show? And every time that you get into a notes session at this point in my career, I'm listening to and judging whether we are or we are not. And so moving people, part of at least the showrunning side and the producing side with networks and streamers is well, how do I move them into making the show that I want to make, the one that's on the page, the one that I delivered? Because I'm hearing a lot of things. So I'll use this as an example. When I worked on Flash Forward, which was the very first television show I worked on, it was at ABC. And we would have three-hour-long note sessions with the network on scripts, which is backbreaking. Those note sessions were really nothing more than ABC saying, can these two characters kiss more? And can we get a little more soap going on over here? We're making a television show about quantum physics and time. And ABC was saying, ABC is about people kissing and soaps. I gotta watch more ABC, right? But instead of having that conversation, which is very, very direct, people were talking around the issue in little marginal ways. And that's how you get a three-hour notes meeting. Yeah, yeah, and that's how you very much figure out we are not on the same page about what is happening. Now, for me, the worst note is this one, which is can you make this funnier? Oh so the problem with that note is it assumes I have a better joke in my back pocket that I'm saving for a better day. Right. It's like, no, dude, the best joke I have is in the script. We can you can we can agree or disagree around whether it's funny or not. But the idea that there is like just a drawers that I can go, well, all right, you didn't buy the half funny one, so I guess I'm gonna have to get the funny one, right, is an insult to what's happening. So, and the generality of that note is also a killer. I can't go back to the writer's desk and actually write something that is just as general as it needs to be funnier, funnier according to who. Yeah, because that's a taste note. I need to hear from you what you think is funny. I need a specific there, a target that I can then hit. Very broad notes, like could this be funnier? It needs to be more exciting, is not something that a writer can go back to their desk and solve. It's too broad, right? It's too big. Well, what I think is exciting, what you think is exciting, are not the same. Otherwise, you wouldn't be giving the note. So you need to give me a specific as to how you think this could be funnier or this could be more exciting. So there's a general rule that I use inside the writer's room, and that I try and have this conversation with executives when we get into this file. And it goes like this I'd rather you not pull a thread that you don't have a needle handy to sew back together.

unknown 11:36

Okay.

Quinton Peeples 11:38

So anybody can pull threads and go, like, yeah, man, I don't get it. I don't like it. It's not funny, it's not exciting. Well, oh, okay, that leaves us nowhere because I sat down and did this and gave it to you. So clearly I think it is. If we want to collaborate and get to common ground, you're gonna have to be super specific about how we're gonna get there so that I can make that correction. If you don't give me that, I'm just going back to writer's room, throw more darts. I hope it's better next time, but there's no guarantee. That's development hell.

Executive Constraints And Hidden Agendas

James Duke 12:15

And so, what I what I'm hearing between the two of you is specificity versus broad or generalities, and and also kind of constructive versus you know platitudinal or whatever. So I Owen, come in, defend your defend your fellow people. Just kidding. But like, Owen, when you hear this, does this sound familiar? Do you like what are your thoughts on this?

Owen Shiflett 12:42

Yeah, and I think it does sound familiar. Hi, everybody. Good to see all the faces. It does sound super familiar, and I would say also extraordinarily writer-centric response to the two the two notes. And what I mean by that is I just think feedback, I think Jimmy, I heard the exact same thing. I heard two people whose worst moments in in receiving notes was not an acknowledgement for the hard work that was done on behalf of said executive. That this is that they've spent a long time, you know, if we're putting this in like workout terms, they sat there and done push-ups night after night and honed their body to beefcake status, and now they're ready to take off their shirts. And of course, the director does not give a shit if they have a really rock and bot or not. They're way more concerned about the color of pants they're wearing. So I think like the director said you could still lose a few more pounds. That's what the director is. Yeah, exactly. Like, what's up with that? But I think I think that that's like a little bit of the the challenge for an ex-I I think more notes happen between producers and writers than executives and writers. But I think executives and writers, the executive notes are heard more loudly and probably, you know, probably ripple over time a little longer just because of their importance. But really, I think for a producer 101 is to establish rapport with the person you're working with, understand who they are, what they like, what they don't like. You know, you need like to really get to know somebody, like you need to understand, you know, to for Quentin's example, like, yeah, what what is funny to you? Did you think that so you think you can leave is funny, or do you think Family Guy's funny? Maybe you think both of those things are funny, or so you think you can so I think you should leave. I don't know.

Speaker 7 14:44

I think you should leave, but so you think you should leave should be its own separate show.

Relationship-Building In The Industry

Diversifying Genres And Spec Strategy

Owen Shiflett 14:48

Okay, got it. That's the sequel. That's the sequel. But yeah, I mean, so I think that that is a kind of a real, I think the the producer process is one that yields where you have something else in mind, where if Quentin is turning in a script and your reaction is to give a note that's like it's not funny, I'm not laughing, and we sold a comedy, or we're trying to sell a comedy, then we need to get on the same page about what's funny and where are the jokes that aren't landing and why, and is it the wrong style, or whatever. And I think, and then if it's a drama, and I think the funny thing about it's been a while since I've I've really dipped into the family, you know, genre. So I think it's apologies, Claire. I definitely came to it from a isn't family and rom-com. H how dissimilar are those two genres? Right, right. That's probably my bad and my my ignorance. But I think the idea of looking anybody in the face after they've done a lot of work and saying, hey, you know, I think that this is not right, is is just a it's just a tough, tough way to be a coworker, let alone, you know, somebody who is trying to build a machine together. I do think an executive role, like producers and executives are essentially a very similar skill set, except one is working for a corporation and then one is working outside of is one is in sales, basically, and one is like in kind of internal sales, you know, like really more of like a you know, you have to sell upstairs rather than it's like actually if one's in sales, one's in persuasion, if you can understand the difference. And the executive, I think, has a broad set of goals that they're trying to service that are not all the way and all the time compatible with even a writer you bought a script with. Meaning you could be Quentin is writing a half-hour comedy and about you know, Goldilocks and Three Bears. And you know, two weeks ago in a meeting, somebody, the programming head said, you know, it would be really cool if we had some like dark fairy tales on, you know, for this Sunday night slot. There's no more slots like that, but you know, but there's if we could get a dark fairy tale going for this specific demo that really likes dark fairy tales. So then you're sitting there, whether you know it or not, as an executive, you're kind of shading Quentin's project towards a goal that you may not even be conscious of, but that's just the way that the the kind of strat corporate strategy aligns. Or by the way, maybe you bought it, you guys both bought it for something for a reason, and the paperwork took a year to complete, and now Quentin and I are like, I'm just really I like the heat is on. I gotta make this, I I gotta sweat this project out because it is not a if it if it comes in in its current form, it's gonna get passed on immediately because we don't need that anymore. So I think that there's like a level of um bobbing and weaving in the executive front that sometimes you can't say that. It's like Quentin, you're such a good negotiator, your lawyer is such a good negotiator, you got the most amount of money, but now we can't do the thing that we needed we originally wanted to do with this. It's falling into a different bucket, and now you're competing with a different show, and I can't tell you any of this stuff. So instead it comes out like, make it funnier. You know, so I think I think as an executive, it's a little bit you're tied, your hands are tied behind your back. Anyway, I can go on and on, but I'll I'll pause there.

James Duke 18:36

No, it's good. I so what I'm hearing you talk about is you're I hear you're talking a lot about just building relational capital, like just you know, essentially as a producer getting on the same page, which is what I heard Quentin and and Claire saying, which is like if you the context matters, right? Like, who am I actually working with? Like, am I you know, am I am I trying to make a comedy? Am I trying to make a romantic comedy? Am I trying to make a thriller? Am I trying to make a post-apocalyptic? You know, and and it so I guess before I I want to come back to the best note you were ever given, but I want to use this to segue into this. What I what I hear there, Claire, is this idea of of uh building relationship with producers and executives, and uh how does how do you go about doing that? And how does a producer go about connecting with you? In other words, what if they like you? Do they just read do they contact your manager and say, give me, give me everything Claire's ever written because I'm looking for X and I want to see if she's capable of X, or are they only coming to you for a very specific area? How are you building relationships with people? Because I know, for instance, you just came back from shooting. Something which is probably a little bit different than some other stuff you've done. So I'm just curious, like what how do you go about building a relationship with decision makers?

When Talent Trumps Temperament

Clare Sera 20:11

That's a great question because that that is everything. That's that's the entire world of show business. I I'm not entirely sure how to answer it, other than I think uh a little bit of what Owen was saying too, isn't it? I mean, you you just have coffee and lunch with everyone all the all the time when you are you know coming up and you just you know you just pay attention and are kind to people and you build relationships and some of them stick naturally, some of them stick because it's like, oh, we have a similar worldview about movies or worldview about work ethic, or you know, or we have different worldviews, you're the devil, but you run Sony, so I I'll still be nice to you, you know. That that's a tough question, but you know what? It really made me think about is while it is true and beautiful and good to be a kind and good person and make good relationships in the world of show business, and it's necessary. It is who you know, it's always who you know, but still, when it comes to giving notes to writers, I have gotten great notes from people I'm not in great relationship with, or I mean that I I'm not in deep relationship with, I've gotten, I have received good notes because they know story and they understand, you know, even as we're talking about comedy, which is a it's a really tough thing to give notes on a comedy script. But what helps is if you're given a script that, or if you uh as a producer and executive in this group, read a script and it's like, oh, it's just or it's just not funny. It's just not, I I didn't laugh once. Knowing what a comedy script needs, which is a really strong premise. It's like, okay, let's go back to the basics, let's look at the premise again and let's look at the relationships between the characters because you can't just have notes on top of a premise that's not working or relationships that are not in conflict in the script. So focus on that. Don't you know, like the the notes I have gotten that I will remember forever are just from people who knew story. And again, the word context, who knew story context, because like the the genre of this film is horror or family or rom-com. I I know what what the beats of that should be. And so I can help you find what's missing. You know, let's talk about what's missing in the script, why it's not why it's not hitting, not just layer some jokes or some jump scares.

James Duke 23:01

Like what where where do you see the gaps so that we can address those kind of specific gaps and and we're not just plugging a uh a sinking ship if they're if we need to address the premise. Quentin, do you get is it I'm I'm not trying to ask a stupid, I am a stupid person sometimes, but I'm not trying to ask a stupid question here, but it's like they know you through your writing, right? So part of it is you they get to know you through reading your scripts, right? So how do you write into how do you write yourself into other genres? If you're trying to build relationships with producers, and even any like I I know managers help with this, but like how do you not get pigeonholed? How do you how do you make yourself known in other categories so that producers think of you, you know, and come to you on more than just a specific type of genre? Or is that literally too much to ask?

Student Q&A: Chemistry And Casting

Quinton Peeples 24:04

No, not at all, because I've done it several times. I do it regularly. And so there's there's but there's some nuance there, which is and I want to roll back to the relationship question and all that, which is it's not just your work. Like one of the things that I was one of the pieces of wisdom that was passed on to me very early on is that 50% of the pitch meeting is about whether I can stand to be in the room with you. And when you're in television, it's 80%. So that's relational, and that's relational capital that gets built over time and travels with you in the community, and that gets passed along as the story that they tell about you. Both the people that you have worked with and the people who work for you, meaning your reps, will talk about your personality to prospective people who are gonna employ you. So that's relational capital. You need to understand that that is very, very, very real. So it's not always just what's on the page, it's what comes with that page. What was it like to work with him? Like we're talking about tonight. What was he like during the notes process? If you ask him to do a quick polish, was the next phone call that you got from his lawyer asking for more money? So all of those pieces matter. So the that that piece really needs to be understood. This is a human relational endeavor that you're involved in. Like you said before, if you want to go it alone, we have performance art and poetry, and please get in that lane. But the rest of us have to live in community, and there are people who will constantly be talking about who you are in community, right? That's just the truth, right? So you need to understand that, and the idea of switching genres or diversifying, another great piece of wisdom, and given to me by my very first agent, and I've always kept it close to my heart. The whole purpose of a spec script is to tell buyers who you are today. Who are you today? And this is why you need to write them regularly, because you're not the same person you were five years ago, right? Even if you're doing strictly family dramas, the way in which you articulate family dramas five years from now, based on the landscape of other competing projects and who you are as a person, won't be the same as the spec you currently have. So the great thing about being a writer is the ability when the time is right to reintroduce yourself to the community and say, you know, I think the greatest band in the world is today, it's the Rolling Stones. And here's why. I know I used to listen to Mozart, but now I love the Rolling Stones. And that you deliver, you are able to deliver on the page that passion that sits right at the center of your thinking today. It's all you want to talk about. And it doesn't matter. Now there's a little caveat, and I'll come back a second. It doesn't matter if it's if you're changing genres. What matters is what you can deliver on the page that they can read. And then when they talk to you, they feel that like, oh my God, we have to finish this call now. They are drowning me in passion around sci-fi or whatever it happens to be. Now, when you're really beginning, don't do that. So here I go with an asterisk at the bottom of the page. In the beginning, because you're just trying to get out in the community and be seen as legitimate, pick one lane and stay in it until you've had some success there. Don't switch lanes every year because people will get confused. They won't really believe you after a while that you have passion. It feels like you're fishing for whatever is hot this year. You're looking for a job. You're not actually interested in what you say you're interested in. You just want to be in the business. And that's from the producer and executive side, that's a losing proposition. Because producers need you to be so passionate about this subject that it's that you've got an extra gear available when the going gets rough. You just love it. You just love, you just want to dig in and dig in and dig in. And that means being in a lane that you love, understanding that you are saying to people, this is who I am right now, and I love it, and I'm crazy for this kind of storytelling, and this is what I'm all about. And then when you've had some success there, you can go, Oh, I'm a little different now. I'm thinking this is cool over here. And you start, you can write your way into that next piece instead of just uh I'm throwing things up against the wall and I'm gonna see what sticks.

When Is A Script Ready?

James Duke 29:58

That's good. Owen, do you do you have you ever passed on a project because the writer was a jerk? Or like how how much how much goes into what Quentin was saying there about, you know, the the just the just the the the relationship aspect of the business? Have you has that paid off for you, or have you seen maybe even other people get burned by making deals with people that the project was great on page, but then all of a sudden you got into working with them and realized it was a mistake. Just thoughts on that.

Owen Shiflett 30:35

Yes. Oh man. I do I have a really I actually have a great story on this that like it actually makes me look terrible, but but I'll tell it anyway. The the but but before I do that, Quentin, I really loved what you said about the the spec script and then also being really intentional about who you are, like set up some pillars and follow that. I think I think that by the way, writing, I think most pillars kind of transcend genre, like in form. You know, if you're like writing about, you know, like I I have seen relationships that are really important to me, be in comedy or drama or action or sci-fi, you know, like it shows up in a lot of different ways. So I think that it's kind of like if you're really writing from a place of truth, then that's gonna transcend whatever genre you're in.

Speaker 11 31:31

Yeah.

Deadlines, Diminishing Returns, Delivery

Owen Shiflett 31:32

And then and Claire, I totally also there was there was definitely a moment. Oh I'm I'm gonna skip that story for brevity, but I really liked what you had to say too, and I'll tell you a story later that is funny. But on to the assholes. So there was so I'm for the first, I don't know, I was there for eight years originally. I was I worked at AMC Network for eight years as an executive, and we had a show called The Killing, and The Killing was an adaptation of a of a Danish format, and it was very much like a like a serialized whodunit when those things weren't especially popular. You know, there weren't like 50 of them out in the marketplace, there's only a couple, and we had such a nice track record there that it really felt like a nice move for us to do, and but we were so self-conscious because we were the madmen and breaking bad channel, us doing a police who done it was like a little like, oh, are we, you know, are we watering ourselves down by doing this? So we made a point to make sure that writers' room was filled with people who had really distinct voices. And the showrunner Venus was on board with that, and and so we hired some amazing writers on that in that room, and one of which was a guy named Nick Pizzolato. And Nick and Nick Say no more. Yeah, say no more. Well, Nick got fired off that show or asked to leave, either way, either way, however you say, work from home, I guess. Before working from home was a was a pleasure, was uh it was a demotion, and he turned in a great script, but truthfully, nope, people had a hard time being in the same room with him. His energy was just way off. And so when he came back around years later, or a couple years later, to pitch true detective in the room. I was in that room, in walks, Matthew McConaughey, Woody Harrelson, Nick Pizzolato, Kerry Fukunaga, like amazing people that we should be so lucky to have worked with. And at the time we had so the killing was off the air, or maybe it was like going off, but we had like another cop show that was in development that we're or was out of pilot and we were already working with it, hadn't come out yet. So this true detective show work walks in and suddenly, and we were kind of like concerned about the other cop show that was in there because this thing true detective, such big auspices. We I mean, how amazing would we be? Like this pole vaults us into HBO territory, you know, if we weren't there already. And then suddenly, you know, he starts talking, and then everybody who worked walked on that show, worked on that show, Nick worked with Nick on the killing, he started pitching True Detective, and we all have like weird flashbacks. And I actually made eye contact with one of my colleagues during the pitch and was like, we cannot. And then afterwards, after that pitch, that show that we're working on became the greatest show ever, and we could not buy another cop show. Guys, we're just like, this other show is gonna be so good. Like, why are we why would we double develop? It doesn't make any sense. They're gonna want to think, and so we passed on through detective, which ended up obviously being a tentpole show and one that was, you know, truly probably worth all the headaches that whoever had to cover it went through. But you know, there is a life's too short element to all of these things, and and I do think that the 80% just hang out, like film producers who end up working in television, I don't think understand that you can't you shouldn't win every argument or even get into arguments because you're married now. You have to be a part of each other's lives on an ongoing basis, and so I think that like the getting along with somebody is like intrinsic to who you are. And honestly, there have been meetings where you know, I will have read somebody and thought it was fine writing, but they're in the room and I just like them, and we're we're vibing and the energy is right. And I'm like, whatever, let's see, let's see what we can do together. Let's just go for it because I enjoy this, you know, and that that happens more often than not.

James Duke 35:55

Yeah, that's good. Well, that's a great story. So in if you love true detective, then you must hate Owen. That's great. And by the way, Owen, uh, if I remember correctly, you the the you turned down true detective, I think it was for diagnosis murder. Is that the show that you I'm just gonna do?

Working For Free And WGA Boundaries

Clare Sera 36:15

No, okay, wait, no, Jimmy. I I have I'm gonna interrupt because I it's kind of interesting to me that we're talking about Vina Seud, who the creator of The Killing, and she comes, she's from Vancouver, which is where I'm from, and we were both part of a comedy improv theater in Vancouver back in the day. And she and I did not cross paths. We have a dear friend who is constantly like, we have to get you two together. But Vina performed with Vancouver Theater Sports, and I performed with Vancouver Theater Sports for years. Nice, and then she went off to do the killing, not exactly an improv comedy show. Like Jimmy, you're talking about different, you know, having it bringing your voice to different genres. And I just I recently wrote my first horror, like full-on horror script, which yeah, and you're absolutely right. I mean, the the pillars of a story, the basis of is the same in in all genres. And I really enjoyed bringing what I've learned from doing family, family comedy, family drama, and rom-com into the world of of horror. You know, it's like it's really rich and the script is doing well. So it's kind of I I love seeing that mesh that of different genres and different people. Like you you don't know what someone's background is because they've written a horror or a merger screen. Yeah, that's cool.

James Duke 37:44

I'd love to take uh a couple of questions from the students, but before I do, just real quick, if you guys could just real succinctly, it was there a really great note that you, I mean, I you've mentioned a few things, but was there a really great note, Claire and Quentin, you were given once that you're just like, man, that was one of the most that was just a there's just a great note. You can I don't know if you can be as specific as possible, but I'm just curious if there is something that you were working on that maybe it why it was so great for you, why it was such an important or good note for you, I should say.

Quinton Peeples 38:14

Yeah, I mean, I have one that's again, I could go on and on about what the situation was, but I I had a project with Billy Crystal called Have a Nice Day. And based on an idea that I cooked up, which was basically Death comes to collect the president of the United States, and it turns into a two-hander about how the president spends his last day on Earth.

James Duke 38:39

That's a cool idea.

Quinton Peeples 38:40

Yeah, and you can listen to it on Audible for free because we staged it ultimately. It was an amazing thing.

James Duke 38:54

That's awesome, yeah.

Delivering Bad News With Humanity

Quinton Peeples 38:55

So, but during the course of that, and as a side note, we did 22 drafts before we turned it into the studio. Wow, wow, so welcome to Billy Crystal. But the nature of what could have been super surfacey and maybe a little fizzy was turned on its head when Billy gave me a note on the script, which was this just to tell the truth, right? And it all boils down to that. Now, the truth is a fungible object or whatever, but in a situation where you're even dealing with genre elements, in this case, there's an angel walking through the White House, the angel of death, you still have to tell the truth. You still have to find the truth. Of the scene. And if you can do that, then everything else hangs on that cohesively. What is the truth about this? And you have to find that in yourself, inside the scene, inside the idea. What is true for me here? That has to be the gravitational center. Otherwise, you can't write it. You can write some funny jokes, right? And you can make it like surfacey, but you're going to need the truth of that scene. And then ultimately I saw it up on its feet. Now we're in a room with Kevin Klein and Annette Benning, Rachel Dratch, all of these people. And every single talented actor in that room was navigating towards that thing. What is true in this scene? I need to know what is true in this scene. They're not talking about their motivation. They're trying to search out the truth of the scene so that they can then serve that. So Billy's note absolutely transforms the whole situation for directors and everybody else who's going to come along after me. If I haven't found the truth, they'll decide what it is for themselves, and who knows where they're going to land there. That's good. That's good.

James Duke 41:24

Claire, how about you?

Clare Sera 41:26

No, that's really good, Cutton. That's deep, and that's gonna make me I'm gonna I'm gonna have to ruminate on that a bit. I just wanted to use the word ruminate and was thinking about it even before this panel. No, that's really that's that's not easy. That's a good note, but it's a hard one. Like get to the truth in everything. Well, my turn to name drop, I suppose. The best note, or the one that I returned to the most, you know, the the one that has stuck with me, like Quentin was saying too, came from actually the first feature I worked on was an animated movie, Curious George. And the fantastical William Goldman was on that project for a while, which was wow. I know, but it really was it was amazing. And we were specifically stuck with a third act problem, and he said, You don't have a third act problem, you have a first act problem. Your third act problem is always solved in your first act, yes. So, I mean, in it that just it's always true, it's a hundred percent true and and always true.

James Duke 42:38

That is so good. That is so good. If you have a question, go ahead and like put your little put the little question, put your little hand thing up so I know when to call on you. There you go. Okay, let's go with I feel like um this is like daytime talk radio. Shannon, you're live with the panel.

Shannon 42:55

Thank you so much, you guys, for being here with us. This is amazing info. Oh, and if you don't mind, can I ask you a question about the killing? That one's sort of in my sights right now for something else. How I know that you were obviously at AMC. Were you sort of intimate in the process of the development of the show too? Yeah, okay. Yeah, I'm grew up in Seattle, so it's near and dear to my heart for that. But I read the pilot script and absolutely loved it. I don't know what draft that was, but I wanted to ask you about the chemistry between the two leads. Specifically, I mean it crackles in the script, but on screen it's nuts. And I was wondering if that was purposeful or if it was discovered, like like in it for an example, like Rip and Beth and Yellowstone. I there there was like no storyline there. They crackled on screen, I guess. I had read somewhere and it spiraled into this giant and now they have a spin-off. It you know, was never intended to be what it became. So I was wondering because I loved the way the tension was built, the humanity, and then how we're chasing this ministry, but we're also I it was like so in deep with these two people in a way that I've never really been held in by a show, and I wanted to know if that was always the intention or if that was born from the crackle between the two leads. I don't my question makes sense.

Relational Capital And Long Memory

Owen Shiflett 44:17

Yeah, yeah. I mean I mean, there are always happy accidents when it comes to shows, and I I think Quentin and Claire, who are have also had shows made and you know, seen their scripts come to life. There's always things on screen where you're like, oh my god, like I had no idea. Like that piece of production design added story when there was none there, or this this choice about wardrobe is now you know informs a piece of backstory never thought about. One example that is I was actually on set while we're continuing to name drop. I was on set with the very first time that Giancarlo Esposito was introduced on Breaking Bad, his character was. And and there was a discussion of whether you should be wearing a wedding ring or not. And we went back and forth, and it was literally like just a conversation with the writer and him, and showrunner wasn't around, and so it was just like the executives got in on it, other actors did, and you know, so it's like a wonderful thing. The killing, though, however, is not that. The killing was based on a format from Denmark, and we had seen two great actors do these two roles before, and Moray was you know, a lead pretty early, I feel like. I think we zoomed in on her pretty early, and then Joel Kinman, we found just from reading, he had done Snobakosh, but not anything else, and then he but and he read, he could only do an English accent with that weird, like hip-hop kind of like baroque thing. He couldn't, he couldn't be not Swedish without that. So, so we so that is part of like so he just kind of like he was more real because he was like used as such a crutch. So yeah, they they just we did a chemistry read and they just it was it was immediately clear. Oh, there was a very funny thing in the chemistry read, he actually like legitimately tripped and like knocked over a bunch of stuff, and then he like responded in character, and she was like helping him but kind of insulting him. And then at that point, it was like, Oh, they're kind of flirting, like that's awesome.

Speaker 6 46:27

Okay, okay, thank you. Thank you so much. That was a good question, by the way. That was a very thank you enough to be thought.

James Duke 46:35

Oh, this is my chance to name Drop Gray and her significant other always shops the same target I did. And I I kid you not, we would, and for some reason, it's like I guess our schedules were similar. So it's like every week we would be at the target at the same time. And I told my wife, I said, I know they think I'm stalking them because they're the famous ones, but I'm pretty sure they're stalking me anyway. Um so Justin, you're up, buddy.

Justin 47:07

Hi, yeah. I had a question that I thought would be interesting to hear from all you guys' perspective. How do you know when you know a script is ready to be sent off to an executive or a producer?

Owen Shiflett 47:22

Tricky question. Tricky.

Clare Sera 47:25

No, it's pretty easy. Like, what's the due date on the contract?

Building And Repairing Trust

Quinton Peeples 47:30

I mean, yeah, I mean, it's it's that's a nuanced question in in that there is the it's a really, really personal journey for the team. And there are business aspects to it about when you need to deliver and what expectations are around it. That and television has gotten looser and looser as we've gone along, as streaming has come, it's more like features, which is nobody really has to make anything or ever say yes. So, how long can we string this along? Is where we are right now in television. But from a creative standpoint, and there is a point of diminishing returns where the notes that you're giving, where the process you're going through is actually taking you backwards, and everybody starts to feel it. And if you can recognize that, you know it's time. Right? You may not have solved every possible problem and every solved every question, but now the notes process is leading to diminishing returns. We're getting worse as we go, and everybody's feeling exhausted and worn out. That is a red flag to let you know it's time to go. Or fire me and find somebody else. So that you know, that that's how that goes. Uh, but you after a while, you get a sense of this team now has their best vision on the page, and it's time to turn it in. And hopefully that corresponds with the agreed upon contractual timeline. And the thing that I say all the time is we do the best we can with the time we're given. And if you give me two weeks, you'll get what you get from me in two weeks. And if you let the clock run it, I'll do the best that I can while you have me. But that may not be the best I'm capable of.

James Duke 49:39

I mean, I mean it's a little bit like when someone asks, How did you know you wanted to marry your spouse? Right. It's like, well, I either I knew, you know, I love I loved her and I didn't want to l spend, I didn't want to go the rest of my life without her. But also, you know, she's like, hey, you know, pooper, get off the pot, you know, a ring, right? So in a sense, it's like there's a timeline to the right, like so if the control to Claire's point, like you're contractually obligated to turn something in, it's it's all it's all there for a reason. It's all in the end, all creatives need deadlines, right, Claire, wouldn't you say?

Clare Sera 50:16

Oh yeah. I mean, a deadline is the best muse ever. But I I think that uh when you're talking about handing it in to an executive or a producer, then you're you're on the job. It's not like a spec. You can take 10 years to perfect your spec. But if you're if you've been hired to deliver a script, you have a deadline that's that everyone has agreed on, and you have a grace period that's sort, you know, that's depending on your relationship with the executive. I guess this goes back to relational. But I think I mean, you only get one chance at that read. So, you know, pushing the debt, it's better to hand it in a little bit late and good than on time and bad. But also to Quentin's point, like uh and and also Jimmy's, it's like at what point is it good enough to hand in? I that's almost an impossible question. I think within a week of it being due, pretty much, it's like that's it's a business, you know, as as much as an art form.

James Duke 51:21

Owen, from your perspective, like like I think what Claire said was great. On time, not so good, a little a few, a few days, you know, a little bit later and much, much better. Like, how are you gauging it at your level?

Lightning Round: Translating Bad Notes

Owen Shiflett 51:37

I mean, you you are you have to set a goal, you have to tell when you start developing with a writer, you have to set a where's the end zone? What are we aiming for? Who what what is the purpose of this? If the and you if you've gone three rounds and you're still with the writer, and you're still like, yeah, it's not funny enough, like, you know, probably you're not saying that, but you know, I I think that there's a level in which like there's a project right now that I I struggle with, even though it's like a video game that I've wined and dined everybody and embraced everybody, and we're all holding hands and seeing kumbaya, and the writer just you know doesn't have it, doesn't have it, and so I've never given them anything, and it's probably gonna die, but I can't, but I I have a choice between letting it go a little bit longer or changing gears and doing going with another person, but I sold it with him, so I have to I have to kind of let it play out.

Eliza 52:45

Okay, like yeah, I kind of have a specific question for Claire. I have to ask, I know you worked on Princess Diaries. If like, was there, I'm sure every project you do, you think of like, wow, this is this is it, but like for that one, was there a moment where you were like, wow, this is really because like you know, I have friends still dressing up as Princess Mia for Halloween. Um yeah.

Clare Sera 53:12

So what your question, like, was that a highlight, or what do you mean?

Eliza 53:16

Just like, was there a moment when you were like, I think that this is gonna be pretty big? Like, did you know that kind of from the start, or were you surprised about how big it is and still was or still is?

Clare Sera 53:29

No, I mean, I don't think you ever know. I it was one of the first projects I worked on where people kept using the term major motion picture, which I thought that was pretty funny. It's like, oh, this is real. I'm not a credited writer on that. I did a little consulting on the script. The it was a joy from start to finish, for sure. It it was like having a princess experience being a part of that movie. Gary Marshall was one of the most joyful directors of all time. I've never worked with anyone as joyful on set as Gary Marshall, which is how he got his brand of comedy out into the world. He was an absolute delight. Who also gave a note that I employ as a producer, and I certainly used it on the project that we just shot over the last couple of months, which was very tight budget in Ireland. So, yeah, I mean, crazy people. And Gary Marshall said, you know, if you have a position of authority, just take the blame if something goes wrong. Just take the blame, then everyone can move on, you know, because it's like if something goes wrong on set, and I guess this could include, well, it wouldn't include the script because you'd have to be the right, but if something goes wrong on set or in development, and everyone, especially on set, everyone is like, you know, the light bulb falls and crashes, and everyone freezes, you know, because a set is like being in an ER. Everything is so important, it's life or death, every single thing, every single minute is money. And everyone freezes. It's like, whose fault was that? Like looking around, like who to blame? And Gary would literally be like, oh, that was my fault, even though he's across the room in Video Village or doing whatever. That was me. And everyone just is like, oh, it doesn't matter who it was, it was a mistake, and you know, the bulb gets swept up and we all move on. And you love Gary and you want to do anything in the world to please him, you know, with the film. And so I learned a lot. I did a couple of projects with Gary. In fact, he was going to direct a script that I had written, and I would love to have seen how it turned out with him. But he his attitude towards the people that he worked with was always paying attention, always being kind. And that whole thing about take the blame, I thought was really great advice. And then my my last thing about Princess Diaries was I don't know how this happened because I had a very, very, very minor role in that movie as an actor. But I got to share my dressing room, it was right next to Julie Andrews, and we got our makeup done together every morning for three weeks. I still can't believe that happened to me. But like that's just like, what? How did that so one day one day I'll do a podcast of Julie Andrews stories? But thank you for asking about Princess Ares. It was an absolute delight. Both films were a delight to do. So, you know, be fun.

James Duke 56:39

And by the way, I think Claire's being a little bit modest. One of the reasons why she was cast on that is that she's very, very funny. And Gary Marshall knew that. And that's kind of a big deal when someone of his caliber says, like that, that girl's that girl's funny, you know?

Speaker 5 56:58

And she had more of an accent like that girl, she's funny. I should bring her into my movie.

James Duke 57:06

All right, well, we're just name dropping left and right. All right, Dean, do you have a question?

Deanne 57:14

Hello. Oh, and I'm I'm a friend of Mark Finley. He says hello.

Closing, Prayer, And Program Info

James Duke 57:18

Oh, awesome. That's great.

Deanne 57:21

I have a question for all of you. It's relating to you if you work with a team that you love, the producer, executive producers, everybody, and you love this story. Have you ever sometimes when you pitch studios or people that you pitch into, they want to see their pilot and then maybe two episodes. Have you written it without getting paid? Or is it always you must be paid, and then you have it, and then you pitch? How did that work?

Quinton Peeples 57:51

No, I I mean it's again in the era that we're currently in, there's no hard and fast rule, you you'll you'll have a lot of people who will invent or try and reinvent the wheel. But certainly at the point where I am as a producer and a writer, and one of the things that I have to say to people all the time is like, hey, if you had a buddy who was a plumber and your sink got stopped up, would you call them at nine o'clock on a Saturday night to come on over to your house and fix it for free? Because what we do is actually a job, it's a craft. When we sit down, we should be paid for that. Now, maybe it's not a hard and fast rule, but the dear friends that I have all understand that this is work, and that certainly at my stage, I have bills to pay like everybody else, and that my my time is worth something. And my skill, all the hours that I've invested to become an expert at this was business capital. That's capital that I invested in my business. And when you ask me to work for free, you are asking for a capital investment from me and you. And I love you, but this capital is really, really important to my business. And the this is where Hollywood gets a little blurry because we will be friendly with people. We will have friends who will ask for favors, and you have to decide how your business and your friendship overlaps, and that's a very personal decision.

James Duke 59:51

And if I could just interrupt, yeah. It isn't part of the dilemma, and then Owen Claire jump in here, but is it part of the kind of the sticky? Weirdness that sometimes we get with when it comes to this is the constant kind of almost perpetual of what could be. Everything everything is so speculative. So it's like, hey, if you do work, a lot of the conversations do work now for a big payoff later, right? And then, but then, but what happens is, like you said, the the payoff never comes, and I've got bills to pay now. And so but I do feel like sometimes that's that's where the weirdness comes. Just I'm talking like regular deals. I I have a friend, I think Owen knows well, who's a a blacklist writer who had one of the top scripts multiple times, and he told me he I think they did 67 drafts on that script, and they were only paid once. And that was a blacklist script, right? Like that that was a part of like, you know, and anyway, just it is is a lot is part of the issue that would you say, Quentin?

Deanne 1:01:01

Well, I was thinking about the Billy Crystal script. You did 22 drafts, and they paid you 22 drafts to do it, or I mean how that was it was hotly contested.

Quinton Peeples 1:01:10

They didn't pay for all 23, they certainly paid for more than they wanted to, right? So we get we got deep into that process where and again, I don't think he would well, I'll set that aside. Maybe he would. He his process in order to get a script ready was this, which was multiple, multiple rounds, right? And that was not explained to me ahead of time. So I got into that situation and had to throw a flag, and it was not appreciated. It was not appreciated, but that led to a very, very clarifying, and again, this goes to relationship, a very clarifying conversation between he and I about method, and that's where a lot of what I am talking about comes from. My it was heated, and I don't think he still shares my opinion. While he understands it, he doesn't share it. And the the working out of two different processes is what we have to do everywhere. And I had to say to him, if we're gonna just do endless drafts, there have to be mile markers, a little bit like Owen said beforehand. I need to know where the finish line is, and I need to know when I'm getting paid.

unknown 1:02:51

Yeah.

Quinton Peeples 1:02:51

So if we can decide on that, I'll do as many drafts as you want. So that had to be established, but we were already mid-relationship when that came up.

James Duke 1:03:04

And and Owen, there's there's obviously the WGA has restrictions now on what you can ask writers to do, correct? It does. It doesn't mean I think that people are following those. But look, the I think the WGA restrictions come in a lot more, they're a lot more effective when you're working with a studio because there's actually an a larger entity that you can hold account to with business affairs attorneys and stuff like that. I mean, I think if I if the only thing I would add to this is that I think it's a producer's job to sell a project and selling it to other parties to package them together, selling it to a studio, selling it to executives, selling it to blank, blank, blank. I think part of the job of a of a producer is to sell your writer on what it is that you need them to do to sell it. So I think the idea of a writer feeling like they need one thing or another is within their bounds, as it is your bounds to try and convince them of of whatever it is otherwise. And and I think that that is best when it's at the beginning of the relationship, but it doesn't always work out that way. And so I think it's uncomfortable, but it's just a part of our business. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 6 1:04:27

I think that one of the great things from this is I mean, it's it's hard to remember, but you have free will. You get to choose if you're gonna do another. You get to choose how many drafts you like Quentin had the conversation. It's like you get to choose. And I think when you're starting out, you're gonna do a wider berth of it, you know, and you come to a place where it's like you can start to gauge if I'm working with Billy Crystal, do a few more drafts than you know, if I'm working with a first-time producer on an independent film that you know, it's like, but to to gauge for yourself what you are willing to do based on the project, based on your passion for it. That's but always to remember, it's like, oh, I'm not a victim. Nobody is forcing me to do this. I can say no. It is up to it is up to me.

unknown 1:05:21

Yeah.

Speaker 6 1:05:22

And the WGN.

James Duke 1:05:23

And the WGN. Patrick, you had a question.

Speaker 7 1:05:27

Yeah, for Owen, I was curious if you had experiences or advice about telling a showrunner that their project isn't moving forward. And on the other side of that, Quentin Claire, if you've been on the receiving side of that, what advice you might have about, I don't know, not sending whatever the email is that you're thinking in your head after you're oh man.

James Duke 1:05:50

Patrick, Patrick, Patrick would like to fire some people, and he would like no, it's good. That's hard. That's the hardest thing. I mean, I've I've definitely had to let a lot of people go over the years. I mean, not more in my capacity as a producer than as an executive. Executive, you're really only working with writers, unless you're pretty high up and you run a department, and then you're you know, hiring or letting go coworkers. But you know, look, the the more experienced a writer is, the more they understand and they they aren't blindsided by something. That's the nice thing. And more that they are adults who understand these things happen, the the more junior somebody is, you really have to really talk a lot. I mean, the the big thing here, and what is I think even though that's the worst situation possible for most working relationships, you have to just say it immediately. I mean, it's like when you call, this is not a good news call. We are not making conversation. I'm so sorry, this is I got bad news, or I'm so sorry, this is this was a decision I was a part of, but don't fully own. But I'm the one who's calling you now, and we are not moving forward. Or, you know, this. I mean, look, the the hardest ones are, and I'm sure Quentin and Claire, you you've probably been in this situation. The hardest ones are when something you made, you got through so many processes when they used to make pilots and then not and then not green light the pilots of series, you like cast it, you did, you know, you had test screenings, you go through, you edit it, you put in that cool Pearl Jam song that you love, and suddenly, you know, and then you like sit there and you're just like, Man, how do you not love this? And those are the hardest because you've already been to war and back, and yet it just doesn't feel like it's right. I still remember those calls to myself getting them, and I still remember probably every single one I ever did, which is probably a testament to how kind of emotionally crippling they are.

Quinton Peeples 1:08:03

I mean, I have a thing we were talking before we came on about Dallas Willard, and this is a Dallas Willard quote: the truth spoken without love is always gonna be brutal. And what he means by that really is the Christian conception of love, meaning actively working for and hoping for the good of the other. So if you speak the truth without that, it's gonna be brutal, and I have suffered with that consistently around these kinds of phone calls and also indulging in it myself, right? So I have been the victim of and the perpetrator, sometimes on the same show, and so the calls from the Owens of the world or whoever who have always come into the conversation and said, Man, I'm the first words out of their mouth are man, I am brokenhearted. Means that everything that follows after that is better, right? It just acknowledges that we all loved this and we gave it our best, and we feel like it's a tragedy that it's not going forward, right? So that's that's a truth spoken in love. Your show is still not going forward, but it's given to you in such a way that you can bear, as opposed to, and I will tell tales out of school, spending two years on a Mitch album project for Amazon and never getting a phone call, never having a conversation with anyone to basically hear after much, much, much arm twisting from my reps at CAA that the project wasn't going forward. When I had a relationship with, I can't even tell you how many people at Amazon and NBC Universal, and not a single individual sent me an email or a phone call. So that is the truth spoken without love, and it is brutal, and it doesn't have to be it like we were saying before, to Claire's very thoughtful admonition. That's a choice. Somebody made that choice, it didn't have to be that way. You chose that, so that's the brutal part, and you never as best you can, you don't want to be that guy, you don't want to be that guy, you don't want to deliver that news and be brutal.

Speaker 6 1:10:58

It's a choice, you don't have to make that choice, and you're right too, Quentin, because you probably will a couple of times. I mean, you know, it's like over your career, there's gonna be in that time you just didn't have it in you to make the call or make the call well, you know, to have compassion on yourself as well. But I just want to add too, like it comes back to Bill Goldman's. It's like your your third act is gonna reflect your first act. If you had a good relationship with the writer and you treated them well all along the way, you're it's gonna end better than if you never invested in them and now you also have to call them and say your show's not going.

Quinton Peeples 1:11:38

So and I think it's one of the great values of this class, this panel today is this return to again and again to relational, relational part of this, which is this isn't the last job I'm gonna have. Right. And this isn't the last show you're gonna need to get on the air or you're gonna need a writer for. So, what relation are what relationship are we carrying with each other into the future is really gonna turn around how you fired me, right? Even though you may not have wanted to. Yeah. So the, and I tell this to young people all the time. I went in for a general early early on in my career at Hearst, when Hearst, the Hearst Corporation made TV. And I sat out in the office for a half hour before the meeting just chit-chatting with the assistant, blah, blah, blah, my usual rasmatas. Well, 10 years later, I get a phone call from my agents who say, This executive is calling from free form, and they're offering you a job without even meeting. Do you know this person? And I was like, Oh my god, that's that assistant who I only interacted with that person once, waiting to go into a meeting, and now she's got a job that she's just giving to me because of who I was in that waiting room 10 years ago.

Speaker 11 1:13:19

Yeah, yeah.

Quinton Peeples 1:13:20

So that's the relational capital that you build over time, and you should constantly be aware of you're doing that always in the waiting room and when you're getting fired.

Speaker 6 1:13:35

You never know when you're entertaining angels or possible new agents. Yes.

James Duke 1:13:42

Right, that's right. That's really good, you guys. I, you know, it makes me think about the act one core values of truth, goodness, and beauty. And oftentimes with the screenwriters, it's they're like focused on how do you imbue those qualities into you know the essence of what they're writing. But what I'm constantly reminding them of, and and and these producing and executive students is is no, that's for your life. If you imbue your life with those things, your work will be an overflow of living a life of truth, goodness, and beauty. And and the and you know, we're supposed to be different. We're supposed to not be like everyone else. And if we're all motivated by the typical things that other people are motivated by, there's no difference. But if we're motivated by truth, goodness, and beauty, then we will stand out. And I and I think that's beautifully stated there that you know, maybe it doesn't quote unquote pay off immediately, but maybe 10 years. And you by the way, you weren't the way you were because you knew it was gonna pay off 10 years from now. But my point being is if we're walking around living our lives, treating people the way we want to be treated, that that is something that can come back to us over time. I wanna, I wanna, I wanna hit you guys up with two quick things, and uh we're kind of running out of time, so I want to kind of get this, but I I'd like to hear from all three of you, kind of briefly, if you can, on the idea of establishing trust. So, how does a producer establish trust with a writer day one? And then also, how do you repair trust with a writer if a notes session goes sideways? Oh, when you want to start with you, oh that's a tough one.

Quinton Peeples 1:15:35

So I think I think that trust is connected to consistency, right? So again, we're just hovering around relational dynamics, which is in I trust the light switch because every time I go over there and flip it, the light comes on. Sure. So consistency is the key. I need to know that you are going to be consistent over time, then I can trust whatever that happens to be. Now, the problem is the second part of your question, which is there's no reliable human method to rebuild trust. There isn't. If there were, marriage counselors would be out of business. Right? The the way in which trust is rebuilt is a long-term commitment to relationship where everybody's being very honest about where they are, and that consistency needs to be re-established. I can count on you, I can come back again and again and again and know that you are trust worthy. You are worthy of this relationship, you are worthy of my time and efforts. But once trust is broken, now you are on the slow march, and you need to understand that that is going to take time. If you think, hey, it's two weeks and I'll rebuild trust with this writer, you're kidding yourself. It is long-term commitment to relationship that rebuilds trust. And the nuance of that is between those two personalities, how they show up for each other.

Speaker 6 1:17:24

I think that there's kind of a parallel here, you know, I thought you're talking about Jimmy, also about, you know, like we can walk differently, you know, having a specific relationship with God, channeling your walk on this planet. Something that I I'm not sure gets addressed enough in church, and certainly in our business, is like actual self-care, like true, true self-care. Because it you need to be, I want you to be comfortable with yourself and compassionate on yourself so that you can have that confidence with other people. Like if you trust yourself, you will project a outward trust, you know. And if you break trust and you own it, that's a huge part of it. The humility to know that you're gonna mess up, to admit when you've messed up. I just I sort of see in the gospels like that Jesus was very good at taking care of himself. Like he, you know, savior is sometimes a misnomer for him. He was very good at taking time out, making sure that he was in a good place mentally, spiritually, probably even physically. And I can't overstate that for walking through this planet, and especially with artists as producers dealing with artists, that to the greatest gift is to be able to have your own sense of confidence in yourself, confidence in your place, your path, you know, your purpose. I just think people will trust you rightly then, because you have some trust in yourself.

James Duke 1:19:06

That's good. That's good. Jeez. I mean, those are both great answers. I don't know. I don't have anything new to add. I think it's a really hard process. And I think the more that you know somebody, the better, the better it relationship it becomes, and it probably comes becomes more of a real a true friendship or true collaboration than it does, you know, a working relationship or professional relationship. I think that those are the most fruitful anyway. But and you know, like with a friend, sometimes sometimes it's as easy as going over with a six pack and saying, you know, I messed up, let's just talk about it. Or and sometimes it's as easy or not so easy, and you just give them a long, a lot of space and let them come back and They're ready. So I you know, look, I think the hardest thing to do in this business is to be humble, period. Like, and this is not a business that rewards people who are who will leave their egos at the door. Claire, I love what you said earlier about taking the blame. I my my wife has called me a blame eater. I'll just like I will take it and move on and as as often as possible because I don't really care, you know, who's wrong. I just want to get on the other side of it. And I honestly there's a I think that there is a level of I think to be humble and to be a celebrity are are probably at odds in a lot of ways. So I think finding people who are embracing, you know, your values and your morals is probably the best basis for any working relationship.

Speaker 6 1:20:57

And I I would say too that you can have confidence and humility. You don't, it doesn't have to be a meekness, it doesn't have to be putting yourself last. You can have confidence, but you know, exhibit a humility of who you are.

James Duke 1:21:12

That's really good, you guys. I I want to close up our time with this. I have I want to do a lightning round, okay? So I want to shift us a little bit. You guys are all so professorial and godly there. So now I want to get back to being silly. So all right, so I want to close up. We're gonna do a lightning round where I am going to give you some stereotypical bad notes, and I want you to interpret them, okay? You're gonna spin them, you're you're in a room, okay? And I and I want to hear what how how you're going to interpret this note to make it better to change it. Okay, so students, you're paying attention. This is how this is how professionals do it. Ready? Here we go. All right, how about this one? Here's the first one. Make it pop. Make it pop. You need to find something in the script that is that people will talk about the next day, something surprising. You need to you need to kill off your main character in a weird way. I like it. I like it. Surprises? Good, good, good, good.

Quinton Peeples 1:22:13

Claire, Quentin, anything else? What's on this page that makes me want to read the next page?

James Duke 1:22:18

Okay, there you go.

Quinton Peeples 1:22:19

Good, good.

Speaker 6 1:22:21

Add someone who speaks gibberish.

James Duke 1:22:26

You made that pop. All right. Um how about this? Needs more heart. That's a bad one because that means that they're not emotionally engaged. So I think that you have to figure out a way to be more true and share, have a character be sharing their internal thought process and internal arc more clearly in scenes. What they're really saying is they want to cry and they're not crying.

Speaker 6 1:22:54

That's really good. I think it's also going back to Quentin's Find the Truth in it. And a note that I sometimes give to beginning writers is there should be a scene or two in the script that you are embarrassed when people read because it reveals something about you.

Speaker 11 1:23:11

That's great.

Quinton Peeples 1:23:12

Yeah, I would ask in that situation, I would say, Well, let's stop right now. Can you tell me a story that really moves you? Something that happened to you, because I want to hear about something in you that is really moving. And then you take that moment and you trans you make a little jump to what you're working on because then you hear what moves them, and you just try and get them over the hump and into the fiction part.

James Duke 1:23:44

Very good. How about this one? Um, and by the way, one of mine was make it funnier, but we've already covered that. So, how about this one? Raise the stakes, raise the stakes. That's so vague. Help me out with that. I mean, the the truth is that you can do that in a lot of different ways, but you want to, if it's a high school comedy, then you want the PA to be on so the whole school can hear the embarrassing speech at the end. If it's an action thing, it's a bomb that'll not just destroy this city, but it'll destroy the entire world if detonated. You know, it's the infinity gauntlet versus I don't know, who done it with Thor's dad or something. I don't know. I just broke down that.

Quinton Peeples 1:24:34

Yeah, I mean, I would immediately go to what are the what is the thing that your character loves the most and doesn't want to lose? Do you know what that is? And what is the most embarrassing secret that they hope no one will ever discover? And as soon as you know what those two two things are, you understand what stakes are. Right? I have a goal and I have a thing I'm trying to keep hidden. And the closer I get to each one of those, the hotter the script becomes.

Speaker 6 1:25:06

That's that's great. Those are both, those are both perfect. And I was gonna say similar to Quentin, it's like double down on your character's wound, you know, what's their core wound? And you know, like the the funniest example is Indiana Jones with his snakes. It you know, it made the pit more personal, you know. It's like and yeah, you but double down on on the wound of the character and and decore them.

James Duke 1:25:33

All right. So this one I swear to you, I had this written before Quentin's story, but here we go. Add a car chase here and have them kiss on page 30. It's a great note.

Quinton Peeples 1:25:45

Yes, I'm like, yes, I can do that. Yeah, specific. Yeah, I'm on it. I'm on it. I love it. I'll have the pages on your desk by tomorrow morning.

James Duke 1:25:58

Is it is it bad to be fat to to do a little bit of backseat writing, or what is it, do you not?

Quinton Peeples 1:26:05

Is that just like here's the thing, and here again, it goes for me, it goes back to flash forward and that joke that we just made fun of, but it wasn't wrong. Which is very often those specific notes are coming from people that know it works where they work. Like if I work at ABC, I know that this is what our audience wants, right? Aren't we all trying to be successful here? So the pieces I can solve for you, I will. Right. So this was my experience there, and also at Netflix. The last show I did for Netflix, they were like, in the first two minutes, we need to feel like we've been shot out of a cannon. I don't care how you do it, but I better feel like that in two minutes. Because if that's not there, your show's not going on the air. So I'm gonna take that note.

James Duke 1:27:01

Yeah, that's great. All right, so then last two, the how about this one? Can the chemistry can the chemistry be better?

Quinton Peeples 1:27:11

Yes, not my job. Right? Sorry. Chemistry happens between two actors. That's the casting people and the director. That's not my job, right? I I don't do that. I I don't I don't have the power, even as a producer, I can lay in and say who I want or who I think is best for the job, but I don't actually get the thumbs up on that. That comes from a different committee. So I'll give my opinion, but I can't make that happen for you. That's in the hands of some other people. I I don't have that lever, that lever is not available to me.

unknown 1:27:55

No, no.

James Duke 1:27:58

Owen, Claire, you guys.

Speaker 6 1:27:59

Yeah, I think there there is, you know, uh writing comedy or rom-coms. You're trying to give a hint of chemistry between the the two leads. And I find it usually comes down to trying to find two people. You want them to basically have the same worldview, but come at it from opposite places. If they have different worldviews, they're never going to end up together. But if they have the same worldview, the same basic values, but they come at them from different ways. You can be saying the same thing in two different ways all through the script until they're saying the same thing and kissing on page 30 in the car chase. But trying to get trying to get some chemistry on the page has to come in my world from two people who have the same worldview but see it in from opposite gifting from opposite personalities. I don't know if that made any sense.

James Duke 1:28:59

No, it did, yeah, yeah. I the only thing I would add to that is that I think we talk about chemistry a lot from a from a same-sex perspective. Like, can this group feel like friends more? Or like, what are what are things, you know, like within the show I work on now, it's like in the police precinct. What are like, what are the things that make, you know, everybody like that shared history that can come out, like the copy machine that doesn't work, and everybody's like complaining about it, and everybody's got a joke about the copy machine, or everybody's making fun of the same person for the same thing. You know, like those are you know things that I I mean, I'm not a writer, but I just know that like when I'm reading two people making fun of somebody and that person shows up, then I'm like, well, I you know, I I know these two are connected, and they're also connected to this person, but there's a pecking order.

Speaker 5 1:29:53

Right, right.

James Duke 1:29:55

Good. And then here we go. Here's the last one I have for you. I hate this is this is an actual note. I hate voiceover. They were they listened to the Robert McKee, you know, thing where it's like, you know, or what was that movie with the Nicholas Cage? Adaptation. Thank you. Yeah, God help you if you use voiceover. That is a load of a crock of of dung. I don't think you know, yeah. I I think voiceover is a specific tool that can be used sparingly, you know, for a lot of reasons. And and some genres allow it to be used way more than others, but yeah, it's if they don't like voiceover, then why are you doing a PI show? Like it's just it's gonna be baked in, guys. I don't know what to say.

Quinton Peeples 1:30:47

Yeah, I mean that I and I highly recommend it for those who can go and watch it. The Martin Scorsese documentary that's on Apple right now. He talks specifically about Goodfellas and the use of voiceover there. So let's go watch Goodfellas with no voiceover.

James Duke 1:31:05

Right?

Quinton Peeples 1:31:05

So it's it is case specific, but are you using voiceover because you've left a lot of stuff out of the script and now you're trying to paste over it? Is is really what is underneath so much reluctance around it. So there is a way to do it. You would just have to decide is this the best time to do it?

Speaker 6 1:31:29

I think it's like every, you know, every aspect of filmmaking can be done tropishly or beautifully. I I think it's so dumb to say that any kind of aspect of getting your story told in the best way possible to connect with the audience, even if it is pasted on a little bit, if this if the movie is not working, and so you need, I mean, man, animated movies, holy cow, talk about creating an animated. I've been on three that have been like, okay, now we need to do a prologue because nobody's understanding this world. And so in comes the prologue. Once upon a time in this world, there were, you know, it's like, okay, well, make it interesting because there's no point in saying that's a trope, we're not going to do it, and make the audience just suffer through the film. Like, help help the audience out, set them up, set up the audience for success, you know. It's like and do it to the best of your ability, obviously. But I I just don't I think it's crazy to say that any trope can't work if it's done well, you know.

James Duke 1:32:34

That's great. 100%. Hey, you guys, this was fantastic. And I must admit, my notes for this panel is 20% could have been could have been better. But other than that, other than that. Yeah, I'm just kidding. No, this was fantastic. What a great conversation. All three of you, just wonderful insights. I I I'm really grateful that you that that each of you would spend spend the time out of your busy schedules to uh to sit with us and to just let us leech off of your wisdom and experience and insight. And just very very grateful to all three of you. This was this has been a wonderful time. So as you guys know, well actually maybe Owen, it's been a while for you, but we always pray for our guests before we wrap up. So, Dean, would you be willing to unmute yourself and say a prayer blessing for our three guests?

Deanne 1:33:29

In the name of Jesus Christ, Heavenly Father, we thank you for the voices and messages we heard today, and we are grateful for the speakers, Quentin, Claire and Owen, who share their wisdom, insight, and experiences with us. Bless them for their time and effort and for communicating with us effectively and bless us to reply what we learned today. In the name of Jesus Christ, amen.

James Duke 1:33:58

Amen. Thank you, Dr.

Speaker 5 1:33:59

Thank you.

James Duke 1:34:00

Thank you, guys. God bless you guys. Really, really appreciate it.

Speaker 5 1:34:04

Thank you, thank you. Get it out there and do good.

James Duke 1:34:06

That's right. Thank you for listening to the Act One podcast. Celebrating over 20 years as the premier training program for Christians in Hollywood. Act One is a Christian community of entertainment industry professionals who train and equip storytellers to create works of truth, goodness, and beauty. The Act One program is a division of Master Media International. To financially support the mission of Act One or to learn more about our programs, visit us online at Act OneProgram.com. And to learn more about the work of Master Media, go to MasterMedia.com.