Screenwriter Scott Reynolds

Act One Podcast - Episode 03 - Interview with screenwriter, Scott Reynolds. 

Reynolds is a television writer who has worked on the Marvel and Netflix television series' Jessica Jones and Iron Fist and Marvel's Inhumans as a writer and executive producer. He was a consulting producer on the Fox series The Following, and was a supervising producer on Showtime's Dexter. Scott was nominated for a Writers Guild of America Award for best dramatic series for his work on the third and fourth seasons of Dexter. He has also created/written the comic book UTF (Undead Task Force) with Tone Rodriguez for APE comics. He also has hosted popular podcasts for both Dexter and The Following. His work on Dexter earned him both WGA and PGA award nominations. Scott is currently working on a new show for Showtime.

The Act One Podcast provides insight and inspiration on the business and craft of Hollywood from a Christian perspective.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:01

As a writer, you should be connecting yourself with people that are better than you because that's the only way you're going to become a better writer. I see so many people who just sort of like surround themselves with people at the same sort of level, or they're maybe the top of the heap. And if you're doing that, you'll never be great. If you're not being challenged by other people, the people that are in your life, maybe you need to start thinking about it.

James Duke 0:30

This is the Act One Podcast. Our guest today is screenwriter Scott Reynolds. I'm your host, James Dude. I spoke with Scott over Stone back in April during the early days of the COVID-19 outbreak. Spoiler warning. We do discuss some of the shows Scott has written on, including Dexter and Jessica Jones. So if you haven't seen those shows, be warned. We do talk about some key story problems. Scott Reynolds, thanks for joining us, man. It's good to see you. Yeah, it's good to see you to you, Jimmy Duke. You are uh you are alive so far, surviving the craziness that is COVID-19. I don't know when this is gonna air, but most of the interviews so far have been in our our lockdown. So how's your family doing? How's how's uh how's everybody doing?

SPEAKER_01 1:20

Everybody's uh you know, everybody's cool. They're uh my son is out front, he's in film school, so he's out front right now working on a script uh in the shade. Uh Audrey's making music in her room. She's got like a little keyboard uh beat maker thing. Uh Amy's doing great. She's always keeping busy. And then I'm I'm zooming in a room every day on a secret showtime show.

James Duke 1:50

So um, and and that is what what is that like? Uh because I've talked to a couple of writers who are, you know, have shifted to the virtual writer's room. Is that has that been a challenge for a lot of you guys? Or is it just more the same old, same old, or what?

SPEAKER_01 2:07

Uh we miss the boards. We miss being able to, everybody focused on, you know, a writer's room is filled with like, you know, five, six, seven, eight giant uh whiteboards, and we're able to write story on it and break it by character and go through and go back in a race and adjust. And uh now we're doing it with uh the right, it's like a program called I think it's called the writer's room or something like that. Um and it's pretty cool, you know, it's like it's like cards, but in order to zoom out into seeing like a whole episode, everything's so small and packed in, and you know, uh so that part that part's challenging, but we sort of but thank God for that program because uh I don't know how it would do it otherwise. We tried doing it on a Word doc at first, and that was crazy. Um and uh it definitely makes you more focused, you know. Like we fart around in the writer's room a lot. It's a lot of Jason's silly, stupid stuff and talking about. Yeah, did you see what Trump did? Right, right, right, right. Who's taking bleach today? Um but uh uh and so there's a little bit less of that because we know our time is, you know, we we zoom from like 10 to 1230 and then uh 130 to we try to end around four. Sometimes we go a little later because we make sure that we don't we we take our clocks down in the corner of our computer. You're not just staring, oh, it's been three, three, three minutes. Uh and so sometimes you know someone suddenly goes, Oh man, it's it's 420. It's time to not be zooming. Um, but uh uh but it's it's you know it's it's good. It makes you more it honestly makes you more tired.

James Duke 3:57

Uh oh, I can imagine, I'm sure. And the eye strain of just staring at a stupid screen that that long, you know.

SPEAKER_01 4:03

Yeah. But it's also interesting, like seeing other people's lives. Like I've also uh like had a couple general meetings and you know, people like Warner Brothers or whatever is like pitching IP or whatever. But you get to see executives in there, like there's this one executive uh over at like Vertigo or DC uh uh DC Vertigo's no more, I guess. Yeah, so DC Comics, whatever, DC TV, whatever. Um, and he was in his bathroom because he's got a four-year-old and a six-year-old and a and a seven-year-old.

SPEAKER_02 4:37

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 4:38

And so he has to, there's no privacy. The only place he has is private, is his bathroom. So he puts up, you know, a cool Martha's Vineyard background. But there's a strange echo because it's his bathroom. And uh and then I just think about like his just the weirdness of his time. Like, so his kids are home from school, and dad is always in the bathroom talking to himself for hours at a time.

James Duke 5:09

So dad's making weird noises for the bathroom that aren't usual noises. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:15

He's just always talking.

James Duke 5:16

Yeah, because your kids are your kids are high school college, and my kids are are younger. And the I don't know how I don't know how single parents are doing it right now. I I don't like I I I it's hard enough. And but I don't single single parents have a there's a special place in God's God's heart for them because I we're not trained teachers. And I teach. And we're not trained teachers. Yeah, yeah. And uh and and to do everything else, and I just it it is uh it's it's been amazing how how all this has gone and and the the And math. Like I I don't know math.

SPEAKER_01 5:53

Like Aud I was trying to help Audrey with math, and it's like it's a whole different way. I was showing her my way of like carrying it over and yeah, the real way doing the real way. That's right. What are you doing, Dad? I'm doing math. No, you're not. What is that?

James Duke 6:07

Yeah, yeah. So with the you know, with this writer room environment, do you think that do you think as soon as this is lifted, everyone's gonna go back to meeting again? Or do you think that this will kind of be have you heard any scuttle butt from your fellow cohorts that is things are things gonna be like this a little longer? In terms of like, will people actually want to want to work this way in the future, you think?

SPEAKER_01 6:35

Um, I know all I can speak for is my room, and we can't wait to get back into your your room actual space. And also just because of the because like you're saying with the kid thing, it's yeah, you know, I'm both my dog. Uh uh life is happening all around you. That was like almost on cue. I don't know if that's uh or your kid, you know, one of our writers, like the kid comes charging into the room, and you have to deal with that, and you have to go grab your kid and take care of them. And my daughter, my b my daughter brings sure they're not drinking that poison.

James Duke 7:08

My daughter, well, you know, light cures everything, right? Uh but uh um my my my daughter brings signs, so I'll be in the middle of something, and all of a sudden she'll appear above my computer holding a sign.

SPEAKER_01 7:20

Can I eat yet, Dad?

James Duke 7:22

Exactly. It's been three three hours. Can we have lunch now, please? I hope we get to go back. I hope, I hope. So I know you can't really talk about you know what you're working on now, but I'd

Writing for "Dexter"

James Duke 7:33

love I'd love to kind of hear from you a little bit about I want to spend some time talking about Dexter.

SPEAKER_02 7:39

Okay.

James Duke 7:41

It's yeah, but it's such a you know, it was such a for its time, it was such a groundbreaking show. And such a great show. And I had the pleasure of, you know, watching it with you. And um yeah, and we would always get together. People don't know, we would Scott and his wife and family would have people over and we would uh watch it together, and it was always a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_01 8:07

Purely selfish on my part, because now I get to watch it with an audience, you know, and I get to see what worked and what didn't. Right, right.

James Duke 8:15

Yeah, no, that's smart actually when you think about it. I I that first season was based on Mr. Lindsay's book. That was just bonkers. What was the what was it? I wonder if you could talk a little bit about uh the process of going from a book uh to kind of creating it and making it its own, because you got you guys deviated after the first season and began to develop more of your own original concepts and stuff for these characters and following their own paths and stories you guys were developing. I'm just curious, what was that what was that like? Was that a was did that happen organically? Or was it a was it a specific choice that came from the network or came from the showrunner and said, no, we're gonna we're gonna go do our own thing now? And and what was that like? Because the first season obviously was so successful both creatively and ratings-wise and everything.

SPEAKER_01 9:09

It was great having a template, like having a map that we could that we could go down, um, that we could have, you know, Dexter looking, Dexter with this grand mystery of who's this person contacting me that knows about my past, that knows more about my past than I do. You know. Um uh brother relationships are always fun to to write about. Uh those have been around for a long time. Um so it was it was great having that map. It was great also discovering uh it was great discovering new pathways for characters, you know. Uh finding out that, you know, like the brother being I can't remember if it was in the book or not, but I think it wasn't uh the brother being like a limb surgeon or you know, a um petaly surgeon of uh making fake limbs uh which fits completely into Dexter's mythology as you know his brother down this path of finding of uh of connection, you know. Um so uh yeah, so I'll uh so so as far as like then transitioning to into the next season. Part of it is uh in a TV show, you sort of have to, whether it's like breaking bad or dexter, you sort of have to have a journey of your uh of your characters of where they're heading. Like breaking bad, he's a school teacher who's got this kernel of uh possessive evil in his heart that we just watch go full bloom until he's a guy that left somebody, you know, left Christian Ritter die in her bed rather than saving her. And at that point, you're like, oh, that's that's this guy's journey. Um in the books, Dexter Morgan sort of stays the same. He's that's and and with books, it kind of works really well, but he stays the same. Like there's not really a sort of growth. And we wanted to really carry Dexter on a journey of uh going forward, you know, like the the first one being about his code and being about his past and deciding which way he's gonna go. Is he gonna just be a flat out killer like his brother and find that connection he's always been looking for? Or is he gonna or is there gonna be this kernel of goodness within him that he's gonna look at his brother and go, I I can't go that way? You know? Um I'm gonna choose my sister, ultimately. My uh my stepsister who's dead. Uh and then you know, and then from there, you know, like season four, it's like can Dexter can he ha can he be a dad and a serial killer? Can he have a family and have a serial killer? You know, season three, it's uh can Dexter have a friend? Um so so that's that's why we sort of veered away from the book. The books are great. Um but that's why we didn't follow them. I also it's just sort of like uh I think they optioned the first two books, and we just stuck with the first book and went around away from that point for a while.

James Duke 12:07

Yeah, and and the books the books are radically different in the show. At some point the books turn more mystical, right? And they turn more supernatural and things like that.

SPEAKER_01 12:15

Yeah, yeah. I think it's like book three, uh Moloch or something is actually the demon that's inside of Dexter. Uh he loses him and he just sits on his front porch and drinks beer the whole book. And misses Mrs. Moloch. Which is fine, you know, it's a it's a way to go. Yeah, that's it. That's another shift. That's another shift. We wanted to keep it more about him. The his own journey. And it's like the core of who he was, of what he wanted, was at the end of that first season. When he's when after this the case gets solved, and his brother looks like he committed suicide, and he's walking out, and all of a sudden you see the balloons overhead, and everyone's throwing confetti at Dexter, and it's like we love you. And it's like at that moment, we all connected with him because that is uh for the most part, that's what we want out of life, right? We want to be loved and we want to connect, and we want people to look at us with like uh joy and care. And even this like uh sick serial killer uh has that need within him, you know, which is why he followed this code.

James Duke 13:19

Um that's the thing that I think a lot of people you know, it's like one of the things that's difficult, you know, for I think a lot of young writers to understand is you're in the end, you're not writing a show about a serial killer, you're writing a show about a human being. Right? And it's like who is a serial killer? And so if you set out to if you set out to write a show about a serial killer, that's not that's not gonna be uh as great of a show. But if you set out to write a human being who who his greatest hang-up is that his desire to murder other people, right?

SPEAKER_01 13:56

And and I remember when I first are bad guys and chop Bubba to pieces, put them in garbage bags, and throw them in the ocean. Well, you know, we all got our quirks. That's right. But it's his own. But the secret to him, the secret, yeah, it's his code, but the secret to him is like the voiceover that he pulls us in, we hear his thoughts. Um, and uh that's interesting, you know. That's that's uh he says the things, sometimes he thinks the things we wish we could say. Right. Um we find ourselves agreeing with him, even though we may not go. I mean, hopefully we're not going on the same path as he is.

SPEAKER_02 14:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:30

Uh and and yeah, and so and that voiceover, you know, changed as it went along and um and he became more human, you know.

James Duke 14:41

And and voiceover is uh, you know, I uh there's more uh let's just hop on this just for a second, because you've been on two uh really great shows uh that use voiceover to it to their advantage. Dexter and Jessica Jones. Um and and the uh how how can you overuse voiceover? So give us your opinion of how you can use voiceover well in your scripts versus why in the world are you using why are you choosing to use voiceover? Give us give us your thoughts on that.

SPEAKER_01 15:18

Yeah, it's funny because it's it comes from that sort of noir tradition, you know, Humphrey Bogart, whatever. And a lot of times if you look at those, it feels dated because it's coming from the the literary tradition of I walked in the room and I saw the door, the door said Dr. Carl Hill. I opened the door and stepped inside, you know, uh as you're watching that happen. Which sure it's cool to hear Bogart saying that stuff. But uh after a while, I mean I think that's why people hit sort of hate voice over sometimes and why they say it's a cheat or whatever. Um we always try to use it uh not to ex not to uh explain story, but to give his point of view or or or Jessica's point of view. Uh and that's what helps again, that's what helps us ende uh endear ourselves. Because if we just watch a lot of times if you just watch Jessica Jones make a series of bad decisions while she's drinking bourbon all the time and that's all you had, I think you there's a chance you might just be like, Oh, she's just a jerk. Why am I watching her? But because we understand what's going on inside of her, because we're being allowed into her secret, her secret life, her inner life, uh, we lean in as viewers. Uh and so if you're not causing if you're not giving a point of view uh on a scene that a lot of times is counter to what you're looking at or that gives you a clue to what your character is thinking that uh you know, because we get this like just in the creative side of making these sort of shows, um we know we've we've not we've know we've uh we know we've failed uh our actor with the voiceover when they go, Can't I just portray this with my acting? Uh and then we have to then we then we you know they they help us, Christian Ritter and Michael C. Hall both helped us in those moments when sometimes we would slide into that. Uh and we'd be like, Yeah, of course, you're Michael C. Hall, you're Christian Ritter. You can you can easily portray that with a look, with a smile, with an eye, you know, with your reaction. Um and so that that keeps us on our toes and that keeps us sharp uh as far as the use of voiceover too, you know. Um and sometimes, you know, uh sometimes it sells something too. Uh sometimes you'll put some voiceover just to tell help explain it, to explain what's going on to the people that are reading it that are okaying the script and all that. Um and then when you shoot it, you realize, yeah, it's we're expressing it. You don't need it at all. But it helps sell a scene or sell a story or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 17:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:00

Not that we ever consciously do that, but it it it happens that way too.

James Duke 18:04

The the um with Dexter, I even though probably season two should be my favorite because it's the one where I made the guest appearance in. Um put a few friends in. Yeah, as one of the aliases. I am if anybody wants to go back, I don't know which episode it is, but you can see my name as an alias for someone.

SPEAKER_01 18:24

But anyway, um and that's and that episode was that season was like, Can I have love? You know.

James Duke 18:28

Yeah, that's what I was gonna say. Like my two favorite seasons of Dexter, you know, I love the whole show, but my two favorite seasons were the first season and the Trinity season, which was season three or four. Yeah, season four.

SPEAKER_01 18:40

Yeah, John Let Go, just the best, most terrifying bad guy, and the kindest, most wonderful human being you've ever met.

James Duke 18:48

It was brilliant casting. It really was.

SPEAKER_01 18:50

It was brilliant casting, and I I that well, at that point, everyone had forgotten that he was a psychopath, a big time psychopath in the 70s, right? Not in person, but he used to play that, like blowout and 80s, Raising Cain and Raising Cain. Yeah, but at that point, he was the guy on Third Rock from the Sun. He was the goofy hood dad, you know?

James Duke 19:11

Right.

SPEAKER_01 19:11

Remember, remember his going, why would you get John Lisbon? It's like, uh, why don't you go watch uh Brian De Palma's blowout?

James Duke 19:18

Yeah. Have you seen Cliffhanger? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Um, but both of those theme, both of those, uh so much of the entire show, but particularly those seasons dealt with Dexter's kind of pursuit and struggle with identity and family. And um our struggle. Which exactly that's which I'm getting to my point, is is that's why I I love the show because it's this really dark subject matter that's dealing with really and I think that's why I connected with so many people. It was this massive hit. I remember the first season, it was so big for Showtime that somebody has bought Showtime and somebody started airing. Edited versions of it during the summer on CBS. You remember that? I do.

SPEAKER_01 20:06

The behind the scenes on that was that there was a writer's strike.

SPEAKER_02 20:10

That's okay.

SPEAKER_01 20:11

They had no content. And so they put it on there and it went from being like a pretty nice little hit, like underground hit on Showtime, but then suddenly millions of people were watching it on CBS. And you could like change the, I mean, you know, it's not it's not any gorier. People think it's going to be super gory, but it's not like CSI is gorier than anything we did on, even though the themes are gorier. The themes of what we did to your head and all that were. And the swearing, which suddenly, you know, Dopes is like, shut up, motherlova. You know.

James Duke 20:45

Yes. There was a lot of there was a lot of F-bombs that had to be removed because of the uh sister and Dokes. Uh Sister.

SPEAKER_01 20:55

What's the flip, Dexter? Oh, but that's it. That that that that that season on uh CBS made it to that season two, the numbers were enormous.

James Duke 21:08

Yeah, it just blew up, right? By the way, you make me remember my favorite all-time television cut cussword, where they changed the uh the the cuss word was from Smoky and the Bandit when he looked at it and he said, you bum bum. That's yeah, that's not what it says.

SPEAKER_01 21:30

Anyway, um so yeah, Breakfast Club, my favorite is frog out, it says to the principal. Frog out, frog out.

James Duke 21:38

Okay. What's the what's the um so this the this idea of what I was what I was trying to get to is this idea of you can deal with this really dark subject matter. And I think what people are what people are really connected with is a character that actually deals with what it means to be human, what we all deal with, this idea of belonging, family, you know, a connection with someone. And he finds that with Deborah. And and his relationship with Deborah just continues to kind of pull him out of these dark worlds, especially when Trinity, when he sees with the Trinity killer that the John Litgow character, when he sees that I can have a normal life too. It is possible. He thinks he thinks, man, I can finally do this. And then of course, his entire world is shattered. And and uh and you see that the one person who's there to kind of pull him out of it, though, is Deborah. And um, and I was just always impressed with that that ability to be able to deal with such dark, heavy subject matter in such a light, uh hopeful way. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:48

Um yeah, man, I uh I we like the extremes, you know. Whether that's why we like crime stories and why they're they're so with the in spite of the fact they're crime stories, they're very moral. You know, horror stories, horror movies, in spite of how horrorful they are, they're a lot of times they're very moral.

SPEAKER_02 23:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:09

Um, not that I care about morals, but it's like um there's a lightness within them.

SPEAKER_02 23:13

Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_01 23:13

You know what I mean? It's like uh uh I mean even uh you know I I love Old Testament because the Old Testament are these extreme stories of people just screwing up again and again, and like not just like uh tiny screw-ups. I didn't I forgot to make dinner last night. Right. Uh, you know, massive murdering genocidal screw-ups. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And and within them we find we find hope and truth, you know. And and uh that was a fun thing. Like what was it um season six when most death was up against Dexter? Yeah, like Dexter at first looks at this man who supposedly has turned his life around. Yeah, and he um and he's looking at it from his point of view of life. Uh we're all steeped in sin, we're all evil. And uh and suddenly to his much surprise, here's this man who really did turn his life around and really did become uh something more, which is what Dexter was dealing with in that season. You know, can can can I change even this much? Right or are we like on this path that that is inevitable?

James Duke 24:20

No. I think I still have my coffee mug from that season. The uh the the uh so let's get to you know, like you so you know, you're part of this huge show and it's a very yeah, very lucky. And it um what so then what's it like to be a part of such a beloved show and then have people react so negatively to it now? Like, is that just like were you were you personally cracked by that? Like were you like, oh man, or do you get defiant about it? Like, I'm sorry guys, I don't know anything. Like, what's what's it like to be on the other side of a TV show when people are because I you know I wonder how the Game of Thrones guys are and all these other guys that when shows are lost or whatever when the shows end, beloved shows end the not in the way that uh most audiences expect. What was that like on your end?

SPEAKER_01 25:15

Yeah, um uh it was rough, you know. Uh what I learned from that is that after a few seasons, the show is not the writer's show anymore. It's not the actor's show anymore. It is it is just as much our show as it is the audience's show. Um and uh it is really hard to land the airplane at when you know at that point. And on top of that, there's there are so many things that are going on above us and below us, and you know uh directions that that you that you may have wanted to go, but you can't because maybe the network doesn't want it or the producers don't want it, or um, and so you know you sort of you've got all these captains at this ship, and you gotta sort of try to land it the best way that you can. And even when you do, sometimes sometimes things get removed and um and while I do uh I do stand by, like I do think our ending was flawed, but I think our ending, I I still kind of stand by the ending of like the conundrum of Dexter Morgan that he uh if he were a real monster, he just would have stayed in Miami and he never would have turned tried to turn away from it, you know. Uh but then but it's it was left so sort of ambiguous as he's a as he's a uh uh a lumberjack out in Oregon, which granted Monty Python might have screwed that up for us a little bit. Uh I'm a lumberjack.

James Duke 26:48

But it almost felt like you guys were trying to tell a Frankenstein story at the end. Like he is pieces of all these other people in his life, and in the end, like we're not gonna kill him because in the end, the I the idea of Dexter doesn't die, he lives on, and we don't know if he's gonna just live in peace or if he's gonna continue on his ways.

SPEAKER_01 27:07

It was like But yeah, the intent that is the intention. It sort of was a little too wide open, maybe, but like did he go to Oregon because that's in that in that like stretch of land, there are there were at that point, there were currently like 14 or 15 serial killers in that like Canada, Washington, Oregon, Northern California area. It's like this weird magnet of serial killers. So did he move there because of that in real life?

James Duke 27:35

So serial killers like it wet and cold, apparently.

SPEAKER_01 27:37

Yeah, apparently. Or or was he separating himself from humanity so that he wouldn't do this thing anymore? And was he punishing himself by surrounding himself with chainsaws, which is his origin story of how his mother was killed? Right, you know, like so it's it's it was landing all these things, but it was it was it was it was hard, it was crushing when uh uh critics really hated it. And then like on Twitter, I had like fans who former former Dexter fans who like you know threatened me.

James Duke 28:11

Come after you, yeah, threatened my life.

SPEAKER_01 28:13

We'll put you on a table, Reynolds. What did you do? Um yeah, I mean it's it definitely gave me a lot of grace to other shows.

James Duke 28:23

Did you experience any any of that toxic uh what they what what do they call now? Uh um uh toxic fandom or whatever that you experience any of that?

SPEAKER_01 28:32

I I feel yeah, I feel like we were uh the early vanguards. You're welcome, internet.

James Duke 28:39

Um was there a big was there a big um decision that came from up above on whether because you know a lot of us, I mean I assumed he was gonna die. Like, was there a big decision like no, we're not gonna kill him? Or did it happen organically in the room? Uh I'll give a spoiler. I'll give a I'll give a spoiler warning at the beginning of this.

SPEAKER_01 29:02

Yeah, I uh we told the story that uh I mean, like I said, there's a lot of uh a lot of people in the room on that. So we found a way that we all agreed upon to to end the season. Um so then you from of course everyone talked about all sorts of different ways. But you know, can you imagine at the top of season eight knowing we're ending?

James Duke 29:23

Like there was hundreds of ideas of how we exactly, yeah, and that's and everyone's has their own theories. I had my own theories that's right were wrong completely. Um the uh so you you uh not too long after that you worked on a few other great shows, but then you segued on you segued into the Marvel world. And um and so you've you you you've been you had been in the you've been in the Marvel world for a a little while working on a couple of different shows. Uh Jessica Jones, Iron Fist, and Inhumans. Yeah, so with with Jessica Jones, I would love to talk to you a little bit about that. You were brought in by Melissa, who you met on Dexter, is that right? That's right. Yep, yep, yep. She's she uh she's awesome. She's great. She did, yeah. A lot of,

Collaborating in the writers' room

James Duke 30:11

a lot of explain a little bit for people, because that in um in many ways, that's that's how most writers' rooms are built, right? People meet each other in in working environments, and they just you figure out who you like working with and whose voices you like and the style, right? And so then when you go on to do other stuff, it's like, hey, let's bring that person in too, right? That is that kind of how it works.

SPEAKER_01 30:32

Yeah, yeah, exactly. That that is it, it's it's the people that uh come with fresh ideas and are excited to be there, that pay attention in the room, that are focused in the room, that um don't uh uh crap on ideas, you know, uh unless you have a unless you have an alternate pitch. Um yeah, it's uh uh uh because you you I mean, not all rooms aren't like all people you've worked with before, but usually that core three or four that you're building from uh starts there. And then a lot of times she'll be like, Is there anybody you worked with in the past that you you'd want to pull over here too? So yeah, it it really is you know, I mean, I'm sure agents and managers have a have a bit of a sway, but it really does come, you know, even when it's like a new writer that we don't that we've never worked with before. Uh if we read if we read somebody, uh then we we call other showrunners that have worked with this person and say, hey, what were they like in the room? Were they because I read a sample and the sample's great. And sometimes they're you know, sometimes the show owners are like, oh, you know, if I had a show right now, I'd I would have I would have kept her. And then sometimes people say, Yeah, they're a good writer. And and you have to you read be you read between the lines then. Like that's where it ends, you know.

James Duke 31:56

Um because being in the room is you know, explain for people that don't understand, right? Explain a little bit. Like you are you are together for a really long time. So you you have to be able to figure out how to get along with these people. You can't be the, you know, you're not gonna last long if you're an a-hole, basically.

SPEAKER_01 32:16

That's right. You will you will not, and like you know, even as a showrunner, uh, after a while, people don't may not want to work with you if if you are a jerk to the people you work for, or if you don't value their ideas, or if you're the kind of person that all ideas have to come from you, you know, because the the the joy of writing for TV is this huge collaborative collaborative experience. And a lot of times, you know, it when you when you're staffing a room up, it's not like you want all these all the same kind of people either. There's some people that you're bringing in because they're hilarious, and they're gonna give you like that those five great jokes, you know, that week. You know, there's some people that are just like, you know, when I think of like Jim Krueger, who are good with these big giant grand ideas, you know, that that you can pin a season on. Um and then there's just people that are really great at story or people that are always gonna like come from left field, and you may only use like three ideas that are from left field that season, but those three ideas are so freaking great that it's worth it, you know? You have to feel the pressure that every day I got I gotta come up with like seven ideas. Like it when I when people come on staff, on any staff that I'm working on, um I'll sit with like the the younger writers and I'll I'll say, Listen, we don't need your job is to be present and your job is to pay attention. Uh you may be writing on the board some. Uh but if you come up with if you give us like one or two great ideas or great moments or great dialogue things a week, then you're solid as a staff writer or the story editor. You shouldn't feel the need because a lot of times you're so fresh and raw. Like I had a showrunner on you and on Dexter, he's like, Scott, your ideas are great. You don't have to do it all the time. You know? Like really pitch things that you think are gonna land. And so you don't you don't have to feel like you gotta carry anything.

SPEAKER_02 34:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:18

That's not why we hired you. Um that was some of the best I mean, I'm still pretty talkative, but um but that was some of the that was some of the best uh uh the the the best advice I I ever got. And so I passed that along to younger writers and a lot of times they they pay attention to it and um because it's a hard thing because a lot of times when you're coming into a room, if you haven't like if you haven't come up doing TV, like if you haven't been the writing assistant who's got who's getting lunches for the writer's room, and every once in a while you get to sit inside of it, and then you get transferred to be or the writer's PA, and then you get to be the writer's assistant. So you're in the room taking notes and assembling th assembling story at the end of every day. So now you're really into the rhythm of a room, you know, uh, and then move into it. If you're not, a lot of times you're a writer who's been sitting, who's been working in a bookstore like I was, uh, and then at night working on a screenplay. And uh and so when you're in a room, there's a certain muscle that you need that makes sure that you are present. And and I think when you're a writer who's like a who hasn't worked in a room, you hear ide you hear an idea that someone's talking about, and then you let that thing sit in your brain and you ruminate on it for a while, and you're thinking it through. Meanwhile, that room is moving 100 miles an hour, and we're in scene seven, and you get now you've got your great idea for that scene that we've already locked down. And then I see this all the time. And they go, Hey, about what if uh, you know, what if uh Jessica Jones uh doesn't take the picture, but she throws the camera across the room, and you're like, We're way past that now. And so you have to stay uh it's a muscle, you know, you have to be able to stay with a room and follow where it's going and and participate in in that part. So for younger writers, I would I would encourage you to like focus on staying with the room. Uh because we're not trained to think that way as writers. You know, we are trained to like sit by our computer and look out the window and dream of this thing and then write it down and then go back over tomorrow. You know what I mean? It's like it's it's not as rapid movement. Um and it's a it's uh it's not it doesn't come natural to I think a lot of people, but that's what TV writing is. That's what being in a room is.

James Duke 36:42

Um, you knew you you know, I was talking to Jeremy and he has a you know, he does half hour Chuck Laurie show where they and he described the process which it just sounds crazy to me. He he they write in the room, yeah, line by line, man, like line by line, they go through the script and they write it. Um uh so that you know that's that's one way. How do you how does um you know you you you've you've done, you know, you're one you're a one hour guy. So how does uh what is the process uh like for writing uh writing for your shows?

SPEAKER_01 37:22

I can only speak to how I like to do it, so that's what I will do. Uh but I learned it on Dexter. Uh and then of course, being, you know, even even on uh the following, I sort of pushed it this way a little bit. And then uh uh and then all the Marvel shows because I was like the number two in all of those then at that point under the showrunner. Um we break it by character. So Dexter Morgan does this, Jessica Jones does, you know, we we follow her at the beginning of the season, we break the whole season long, you know, uh where she starts and where she ends. We know what the theme of the show is gonna be, what the theme of that season is gonna be. Uh we know who our bad guys are gonna be and how they're gonna interact, and we just sort of break like a big loose version of the whole thing. And then once we start breaking episodes, um, the way I like to do it is we break by character. So we'll follow like a like a Dexter season would have been following Dexter, following Deb, uh following the big bad. And um, you know, depending on you you go down there from the other characters, but a lot of you know, uh Batista might have a story that that that uh season or whatever, or that uh uh episode. And so we break it, we break each thing by character uh on the board. So Dexter goes over like four boards and dab would go across like two and a half or three, and the other characters would be sort of lower lower extent, and we and we break it in different color markers. So Dexter would have been black and dab would have been blue, and big bad's always red. Uh and then uh once we break once we break the episode down that way, then we would weave it. We put numbers next to it. And and then so now you have like uh a beat sheet basically. Then the writer would go off, writer or writers, depending on who's working on it, would go off and take that beat sheet and pull it into a beautiful outline, which would be like uh 10 to 15 page outline. Uh and then pass it to the writers, and we all read it and give notes, like the upper levels would give notes on it. They go back and do those notes. If we're crushed for time, the showrunner or the number two might sit down with it and just take a pass at it, and then it gets sent off to them. And then if it all goes well, the writer then goes off for however many days we have before production. Sometimes you get two weeks, sometimes I've I've done some where we had two days. Uh I've done I did one which was less than a day. Uh uh, but but the good news is your outlines that we do on the on the shows I work on. Um Are pretty fleshed out. There's even some dialogue in it and all that. So you're just like expanding this thing and finding the magic within it, you know.

James Duke 40:08

So what is your what is your what is your outline look like? 10 to 15 pages. Is that are you doing like is it almost treatment style? Or you like you said, where you have occasional dialogue and you're kind of what is that what does it look like? What does that document look like when you do it?

SPEAKER_01 40:23

Um it'd be like uh interior Miami Metro Police Station, and then we just prose out the like several paragraphs of what happens in that scene, and then the next scene, like slug line, and then pros and slug line and pros, you know.

James Duke 40:39

Okay, so like scene by scene. So you you've basically come up with the scenes that so you have the structure, first scene, end scene, everything in between, but it's just kind of prose now. Interesting. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yes, yes. That's so fascinating to me. Yeah, and just hearing the different processes is just such a fascinating thing. The the uh

Working on "Jessica Jones"

James Duke 40:57

so with Jessica Jones, which is such a great show, and you I know you're giving her that great a great comic book.

SPEAKER_01 41:05

Yeah, right, and that and that's what I Brian Michael Bendis and Michael Gatos created uh from whole cloth a brand new superhero. You know, like she's she's not she's not old school like the rest of the Marvel shows. You know, Iron Fist is definitely like 70s because of the kung fu craze that was happening in the inner cities. Uh Luke Cage is because of Black Exploitation movies that were happening in the 70s. Daredevil's even before that. Um but Jessica Jones is just this beautiful noir dream of a character that came from Bendis and Gatos that was like a gift to us as writers that we had that template, you know, of like a 11-issue, 12-issue or 20, I forget how many issues, but this like this very compact thing of her up against the purple man, you know? Uh it was great. It was great.

James Duke 41:56

You you I know you're a huge comic book fan, so you've known, you know, not just that comic, but so many all these other characters you've worked for, In Humans and Iron Fist, and you know these characters, you know, you've known that world. Did you feel more than some of the other shows you worked on? Did you feel like kind of that added pressure as a fan of comics coming into this context? Like, did you feel a sense of like how I need to, I need to, I need to be a good caretaker of these characters?

SPEAKER_01 42:24

You know, remember I was talking about with Dexter, like by the time you get past episode season four, it's now the fans just as much as ours. Well, that's where we start. It's more the fans than it's ours. Uh, because there's there's a bunch of people like me who grew who grew up reading him when he was a little kid. Uh so they have a they have a relationship with these characters that uh sometimes they're stronger, way stronger than it than a lot of the writers may even have, you know. So it's it's you know, it's scary. Like with Iron Fist was was tough because so so many people love him, but then also so many people nowadays would you know got upset because why are you giving, you know, it's like the white savior sort of complex of this rich white kid who's gonna come and learn kung fu and is better than everybody else in the whole wide world, which is like right at the same time that like Trump was becoming president, you know, like it was like this whole, you know, like there's a huge backlash against against that. You know, why can't it be an Asian guy? Uh why can't it be an Asian? Why can't it be the you know an Asian woman or whatever?

James Duke 43:32

Yeah. Who wins in a fight? Shang-Chi or or Iron Fist? Has Marvel ever decided that?

SPEAKER_01 43:39

Uh I tried, I tried, I pushed so hard to find that out. It's one of those things, you know, because there's Marvel cinematic, uh, the movie section, and it was the TV section. Yeah. And back then it was like Jeff, Jeff Loeb was the TV, the TV section. And it was awesome and great, and I loved it. It was such a good time. And uh, but a lot of times we would suggest, you know, especially me being such a Marvel head, I'd be like, oh, let's have them fight, you know, whatever whatever big bad that I'm really excited about, them fighting this person. Uh like I really wanted Jessica Jones to be up against Craven the Hunter. I was like, wouldn't it be awesome if like suddenly Jessica Jones, you know, this rich white uh hunter guy decides he wants to play the most dangerous game in New York City with her. And they're like, great idea. We love it. He doesn't belong to us. Yeah, can't touch it. Yeah, can't touch it, can't touch it. He's sometimes they wouldn't even tell us that. They'd just be like, great idea. Not gonna happen.

James Duke 44:41

That's funny.

SPEAKER_01 44:41

Um wouldn't that have been great?

James Duke 44:43

Oh, that would have been amazing. Um, but you didn't have Craven, but man, oh man, you had David Tennant.

SPEAKER_01 44:50

David Tennant, another, another who's like another one of these people that is like terrifying on screen of the nicest human being you've ever met.

James Duke 44:59

And I mean, he he is so good as the purple man. And and you know, explain it for people a little bit. The purple man in the comics is an interesting character, but he's literally purple in the comics. And so you can't do that. Yeah, you couldn't do that in a grounded television series.

SPEAKER_01 45:16

So it's but we put him in a purple suit and you'd see like the cuff of his sleeve, and and whenever her Jessica Jones, I mean this was the um our cinematographer Manuel Billeter, uh whenever the PTSD would start to hit, the the lights would go a little more purple. So we were true to the feeling of the sh of that thing, of that, of that character, without you know, even the name Kilgrave is a ridiculous name. Kilgrave. Yeah, like why not kill, you know, why not murder tomb, right? Um uh so you know, we had to sort of play with that even a little bit. Like Jessica Jones made fun of him, you know, when she so that's the name you made up. To me, the the core of a good bad guy though is uh is understanding their pain and where they come from, so that if at a certain point in the in the season of tele I know movies is probably different, but within a TV show, if at a certain point uh you don't feel for them and understand them, then I think we as writers uh have failed the series, you know, have as as a big bag. Because even as terrifying as Trinity was, as terrifying as Kilgrave was uh you know, I I I think that that the episode where Jessica Jones is stuck in the house. I I mean I wrote the episode, so I'm a little biased, but uh she's stuck in the house with Kilgrave when he bought her the house and he's just trying to make everything sort of perfect for her, and you understand his backstory, uh like your heart my goal was to make your heartbreak for this big bad who has been just a nightmare creature up until that that time. And and uh uh and and that made you care for him and care for the season just a little bit more, you know. Uh if your bad guy is just like I'm gonna destroy the world, then that's it. Who cares? Who cares?

James Duke 47:08

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. The that was a fantastic episode. Uh um and he his performance in it was spectacular. Did he win? He didn't win the Emmy, did he? No. Yeah, he should. Uh Christian Ritter's so great too, as Jessica. And the the um for for me, what makes that show work is her. She's just so uh I the character of Jessica Jones. It's I it's like her superpower is her ability to not give an F until she can't help but give an F.

SPEAKER_01 47:49

Yeah, because deep down in her soul, you know she does. It's put up these walls because all these terrible things have happened to her and she lost her family. Yeah. And uh every you know, she feels like she touched she destroys everything she touches, but she really she that's you know, her and Patsy have this like on again, off again relationship that she that that is so important to her. And I'll tell you what, like Christian Ritter, uh like Michael C. Hall are the greatest collaborators uh working with us as writers. Uh just I I'm I'm jealous of everybody who gets to work with them in the future. Uh because they they never felt they never made us as writers feel like idiots. They never trashed it. They helped, they always helped make everything better. Um or they could be talked into understanding what we're trying to do and finding a better way of doing it, you know. Um they're just pure, wonderful, great artists. They're the best. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

James Duke 48:48

I love them.

unknown 48:49

Yeah.

James Duke 48:49

I wish I could work with them all the time. You you and I uh we've been friends for a really long time, and we

"Nerding" out over favorite westerns

James Duke 48:56

uh one of the things that we have bonded over is our mutual mutual uh affection for uh the Western genre. Amen. And uh we've we've been a part of a group of guys who for years used to meet and watch uh westerns all the time. And you are a wild bunch guy, I think if I remember correctly, that is uh that was kind of your that was a yeah, it's just that was a seminal film for you, right?

SPEAKER_01 49:26

Yeah, and uh I would say the two the two seminal films for me, as far as like what I wanted to be as a creator and a writer, would be The Wild Bunch and Ashfalt Jungle. Uh and I look back on them, and yeah, and they're because they're both about the most flawed human beings you can imagine, who in the midst of their flaws that you uh understand, even even if you don't like completely understand their backstory, but you are you I mean you understand their backstory in both of those movies and and why they are what they are, uh they find their moments of redemption, you know. Um, that end thing when they step up and decide they're gonna rescue Angel and the Wild Bunch. Uh and it's just as simple as let's go. Why the hell not? Yep. You know, that that moved me as a kid, and it moves me today. Yeah. Same with Ashefalt Jungle. I mean, granted, they're all you know, they're all going to do a heist, but they have their own code and they're all trying to they're all trying to work with each other and for each other uh and stand up for each other, uh, in spite of the fact that they've all been kicked in the teeth repeatedly, you know.

SPEAKER_02 50:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:38

Um yeah, yeah, like I uh yeah, I love I love I love that. Super flawed, just screwed up human beings. If we could, if we could introduce I got a lot of questions in that way.

James Duke 50:52

Yeah. Yep. If we could introduce, if we if we could have people, all 11 people who are gonna listen to this podcast, uh, if we could have if we could if we could introduce them. I'll make my family listen to it. That's that's like 10 more. If we if we could introduce this audience to a filmmaker, can you think of a better filmmaker to introduce someone to than Sam Peck and Paw?

SPEAKER_01 51:18

Uh no, I mean he he is the king of the flaw. Whether it's junior Stephen McQueen is Junior Bonner or uh Dustin Hoffman in a horrific movie Straw Dogs. But you know, like I I don't enjoy that movie, but his care his the truth that Peck'en Paw is trying to express to us is is moving. The Wild Bunch. Um Convoy, you probably do too, because it's from one of the greatest country songs of all time.

James Duke 51:46

Of course. So tell me, tell me, uh give us your go to kid. Give us your order of how people should experience Peck and Paw. Where do you where do you want them to start? Wild Bunch? No.

SPEAKER_01 52:00

No, I think that's a great question, Jimmy Duke. Uh I oh man. I feel like you should start with Ride the High Country. Oh, stop it. Oh, I love it so much. Because that's that's the key to everything. That's the key to Sav Pack and Paw. That's the key to a man who hopes to enter his house justified. Um the duality of man, uh his struggle with good and evil, and with living by a code and betraying that code and being betrayed. Like that to me, that's the Rosetta Stone for all things Sam Peck and Paul. So I'll go ride the high country, and then you're ready for the wild bunch. Uh and they're all the wild bunch, like they're all a bunch of depraved, horrible human beings. The way he introduces them, where you think they're the heroes, and suddenly they slaughter people in the street in a beautiful blood ballet that is both horrific and gorgeous to look at. I mean that's that's what he does. He presents the horror and the beauty of mankind uh in an unflinching way.

SPEAKER_02 53:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:12

Um and I would go Junior Bonner, because now you're ready for sort of a sweeter story.

SPEAKER_02 53:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:17

About uh um especially if you're getting older like I am and like you are, where it's like, how do you you may have been this like grand crazy man when you were younger. That's my dog. Um but how do you how do you uh go forward in your life gracefully when you you're falling apart?

SPEAKER_02 53:39

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:41

Uh I mean you if you watch those three, you sort of see the full range of who Peck and Pa is. But then you have to go Pat Garrett Blue the Kid.

James Duke 53:48

Uh yeah, I would almost put I would put maybe that one maybe a little sooner for me.

SPEAKER_01 53:53

But yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I would go, and then if you're continuing on for like the greatest day of your life of watching film, uh uh you'd have to then you'd have to sort of hit Steve McQueen again in the getaway, which is not necessarily his like that was a work for hire, but it's based on this great Jim Thompson novel. And uh it's so good that I got a tattoo of it uh in honor of my wife and I surviving 23 years of marriage.

James Duke 54:22

Wait, whenever as a getaway, I don't understand.

SPEAKER_01 54:27

Whenever they're being chased by the cops, and it's just it's just Steve McQueen, just docking his wife, and everybody's uh out to take him down. The bad guys are trying to take him down, the good guys are trying to take him down, they're driving. She's got the steering wheel, and he's got the shotgun in his hand, and he says, punch it, baby, and she smashes the gas pedal, and they get away, and they get through it.

James Duke 54:47

And I it's a great allegory for that is great, actually. You introduced me. I remember, you know, so we have like these guys, we started a meeting years ago, and we for the longest time we would watch like a double feature.

SPEAKER_01 54:59

Once a month, a double western and a new western, yeah.

James Duke 55:02

And that's what and I had not seen Ride the High Country before that group. So I attribute that group to, and it's now become one of my one of my favorite films. And for you, it's kind of like what you were saying. That's what I I watch that film and I think to myself, man, you know, if that's I if I'm gonna grow old, and we all are, then what when it comes to the end, I don't want to be in an old folks home. I I want you to drop me off somewhere in the middle of some warcorn country and just put a gun in my hand and let me just walk down the street. That's the uh that's the ideal that I that I live for because of that film. It's such a it's such a great send-off to those two. And then if you have and if you've watched those two actors play cowboys up to that point, it's just Randolph Scott and them. Joe McCray. Joe McCray, that's Joe McCray.

SPEAKER_01 55:58

Yeah, because um that it works on this meta level because they've been the heroes. I mean, even in even in uh Blazing Saddles, they're like Randolph Scott, Randolph Scott, he's a fake.

James Duke 56:10

That's right, that's right. He's kind he was the cowboy, he was the cowboy of cowboys. When you watch a film, because I know you love films, you're you're I know like a there's like a handful of people that I know that that have a almost encyclopedic knowledge of of cinema, and you watch a lot of stuff that I've never even heard of. So I grew up watching film, but I didn't grow up in the context of um of like you know adventure. You know, my my my my my film viewing wasn't adventurous, right? Like it just stuck with what was on TV, what my dad, what my dad was showing. So I grew up watching uh westerns and you know kung fu movies, and um, you know, you know, my Saturday mornings after cartoons was usually you know a Bruce Lee movie, um wonderful and a Western and you know, and then of course I'm a child of the 80s, so you know, all those great 80s films. But um, and you know, at that time, that's when you know 70s. That's what um, you know, and then 70s cinema. I didn't discover 70s cinema until you know college, right? Uh, which is probably, I guess that's probably most people. But um I guess my question to you is how, you know, um, how did you

Discussing love of film

James Duke 57:34

where did your love of film develop and and and how did you find yourself becoming more experimental with your film viewing? Like when did you start going, man, I'm gonna start watching stuff that I've never heard of before? How how did that how did that come about? Because I know a lot, you know, a lot of people didn't grow up that way. Did you grow up that way?

SPEAKER_01 57:52

Um, I grew up super duper evangelical, and so movies were kind of uh the bad guy, you know. Like my grandma, my grandma, you know, she she famously said to our family, anyway, um, that she'll never go to an R-rated movie because if Jesus comes back again, he won't look for her there. Oh man. I know I but like so R-rated movies were like verboten. So I had to sneak all those or catch them at friends' houses, or you know, like uh or or convince them convince them that uh the sword and the sorcerer was actually the sword and the stone. It's a Disney movie, it's gonna be fine. Um boy were they surprised. Yeah, Grizzlies, uh it's a Disney show, it's gonna be fine. It's not about a mutant fair killer prophecy, I mean, it's killing everybody.

James Duke 58:41

Um Phantasm is like fantasia.

SPEAKER_01 58:44

Yeah, and I grew up like reading Fangoria magazine, uh, which which is like great pictures in the uh famous monsters of Foamland, which was like pictures with like um sort of witty recaps of the movie. So I I and uh and and because my parents wouldn't let me watch all those movies, I had to read the novelizations of them. Uh so they were this grand taboo thing that I had to sneak and that were a uh a great adventure to try to try to be able to watch. Uh and I've always been drawn to the things that you know if people if someone tells me no, I have a hard time accepting that. So I guess that's how it sort of started.

James Duke 59:26

Uh when did you start getting into um you know cinema though? Like because you did you because you know, like you college. College, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 59:35

It really was because then I didn't have to sneak it out anymore. I was able to I was able to go to the video store on the weekend with me and my friend Terry Wright and uh uh when everybody else would go away. We went to the same college for a little bit, not the same time, because I'm old and you're not as old. But uh we'd go to the video store and I would rent the stacks. I'd like I had lists of movies that I always wanted to see. So I went to college and I just started catching up and I'd watch. ten movies a week. You know? Um so I yeah, w like you colleges where I opened up in the seventies and as I voraciously consumed all of those stories uh then I started I started fixating on things. So when I moved to LA suddenly I I had access to the entire uh eighties Hong Kong movies and that that whole movement of John Woo and Nico Lamb and so I I would my poor wife I mean my friend Dan Budnik who I worked with at the book at the bookstore would uh twice a week go to Eddie Brandt's Saturday matinee a video store and we would rent 10 movies and that's what we would do on Saturdays.

James Duke 1:00:41

Eddie Brandt's man Eddie Brandt's still there still there and so great one time I one time I went into Eddie Brandt's and asked for um what was it an episode of something and uh it was like some obscure episode and they said hey write it down and two weeks later I got a phone call yeah a VHS copy showed up of this random TV show episode that I wanted.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:04

Amazing so yeah so so that that's how that's how I did it. I would I I'd find a genre and I would fixate on it for like a year and I would go down that rabbit hole so deep and absorb it all until it was time for black exploitation movies until it was time for kung fu you know uh 70s kung fu movies shop brothers kung fu movies or uh Kijiku Kisaku movies or you know get uh Yakuza samurai movies whatever um and I've I've evened it out a lot more now though. I feel like I've I've dived down those all of those holes uh so now I'm just voracious for anything and everything I guess you know last night I watched Chopping Mall with the kids on the shutter for the Joe Bob Joe Bob Briggs uh last Friday shopping mall which is fun because now I get to I get to go down these paths with my my teenage children and show them things that they that they end up really loving. Like we watched Le Circle Rouge which is Jean Pierre Melville who's like another fantastic life changing filmmaker for me. You know? And they liked it you know uh even raising my kids as film lovers I didn't let the world tell me that they have to watch Barney and all that sort of stuff. I was like no I believe that I can show my kids duck soup when they're five years old and they're gonna laugh at the slapstick and then when we watch it again when they're eight years old they're gonna catch more of the jokes and then when I watch it again when they're 15 years old they can't hardly breathe because now they've grown up watching that thing you know whereas most times people go eh it's an old movie why would they want to watch that yeah story's a story.

James Duke 1:02:47

You know what people don't believe me when I tell them but it it's true. My kids at the age of eight and six they're now 10 and 8 but they they sat for the entire three hours and watched it's a mad mad mad mad world with me. Yeah and and and my son my more than my daughter my son requests it all the time to this day he he he wants to watch it again and watch it again and Abin and Costello meets Frankenstein so mad man those are we you know like they love those films those are become like repeat viewings uh in my in my in our family yeah yeah yeah Abin is tell Abin Costello meeting Frankenstein is like the greatest gateway horror movie ever made so great because you you show them that and then you could go hey you want to watch Wolfman in his own movie here's it. I could go Frankenstein and Wolfman fought and I grew up with those movies by the way I that's to me like Wolfman and oh man the lawn changes about the Wolfman on my arm now. So great. Well would you say that keeping a kind of a close keeping old films and older films and you know filmmakers you've admired from the past re-watching them keeping them kind of close work close to your your heart has that kind of in your in in a sense kind of kept you fresh and relevant today do you feel like it continues to inspire your creativity and your writing?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:08

Absolutely yeah it's uh if I if we don't know where we were how will we know where we're going you know um it's it's funny you know uh as I said my son Zayn uh he's in his freshman year of film school he's uh going to the studio school downtown at the Alexander Studios and he's with a bunch of kids who uh young adults I guess who have no like zero sense of history and it's like frustrating for for Zayn even sometimes but then it's also very exciting because he's able to go oh you uh have never seen uh the Wild Bunch you've never seen a Peter Greenaway film you've never seen you know Truffaut whatever he's able to show them and he's opening up their world in a way which is exciting um but it is it is funny to me to that you know because it's not like what's funny is it it's not like the filmmakers of your like uh Howard Hawke who had this whole other life who was a you know flying planes and doing all this sort of stuff before or filmmakers uh like Frank Kafra who like went to war and experienced you know life and Jean Pierre Melville did all sorts of things before he became a filmmaker. It's like nowadays we're sort of we grow up within our like sort of narrow bubble of watching watching experience. So I think it's and that's all you have. So I think it's important to like tie to to keep your uh uh non-movie active life just as alive as your cinema TV watching streaming now streaming life you know yeah yeah um to have like the the real life like you know Pack and Pa was worked on a ranch you know uh before he became a writer and then a TV director and then a filmmaker.

James Duke 1:05:59

Yeah you you can't replace you can't replace real world experience but I at the same time I don't I don't understand people because we you know we get people who apply to act one they're they want to be tv writers and they don't watch television. And I and I'm like I'm like I don't understand that like you're not you're not going to you're not going to succeed. You're not going to get a job uh and be successful writing for television if you don't watch tele if you don't love television and and you're not gonna you know how how can you say you want to write films if you don't you know that we get that a lot in in kind of Christian circles there's such a you mentioned Doug Your grandma where it's like there's such a an aversion to certain types of of film that that suddenly now you have now closed yourself off to so much that uh there's not much left. You know there's there's not much left and that's kind of I think um something I would I always recommend like look if you want to do this make sure that you actually understand the genre you you know you are you a fan of the genre are you fan of this you know and I and I'm sure like even for you writing for Marvel shows it helped.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:06

Not it did I mean you didn't have to be probably a fan of comic books but it helped didn't it yeah yeah no it it was a great mix of people that had never even heard of the inhumans and those of us who grew up wishing they were an inhuman you know um uh yeah I I definitely think you need both but that but those other people were like fans of theater and TV and movies and had a uh had a breadth of an of an education in in movies and and what's fun too is like if you're in in a good room uh they'll suggest movies to you that you've never uh even heard of like I um this guy Rick Cleveland is one of the greatest writers I've ever known um Rick Cleveland suggested a movie called it's Paul Newman I think he directed it too called Sometimes a Great Notion and I'd never even heard of it and it was like a game changer movie for me it's incredible it's so moving it has it's like a little flawed but it's you know it's got this scene this life or death scene about brotherhood and and and loving your neighbor and all these things that is so gut-wrenching that I couldn't believe I'd never even heard of it. Like me Scott Reynolds had never even heard of it. So it's important to be open and and now that scene I'll always be trying to find a way to tell the spirit of that of that story you know um yeah I mean even like my growing up reading the Bible like I have has informed me as a as a as a as a as a as a writer. Like a lot of times in the room I'll bring up well you know there's a story with uh where Debra stuck a tent peg through a guy's head what?

James Duke 1:08:48

I remember one time you called me I remember one time you called me and you said or you texted me and you said hey Jimmy real quick uh do you remember what's the what's the phrase that's always on those old tables uh at the front of a church or something I was like what and you're like yeah what's that what's that phrase that's sometimes carved into a table and I was like oh is that the do this in remember to me and you're like thanks got it and then like later we were talking and you were like yeah we were creating a scene and someone had asked you about you know church setups and you were like no no no because you were you were a Christian and they were like hey what would be what would be in an old church and you were like well that there would be this table where the uh where the uh Lord's supper stuff would be set up and and you wanted to make sure that the art department knew exactly you know you wanted to be authentic and uh you know you were the Christian on set that they could ask those uh questions to and um what was you know is it um

Navigating career as a Christian

James Duke 1:09:44

because I know most people you know we ask this question and I've I've talked to you about this a lot I know you've never experienced any type of um you know uh oh man he's a Christian let's not talk to him um if if anything you've had to you've had to approach it from a from the other angle which is how do I not be so embarrassed when when Christians do other things outside the room that I then have to be in the room and have to explain no that's not the way Jesus is worse now than ever I think yeah like I hate being lumped in with a bunch of knuckleheads.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:18

Right is that fundamentalism that drives me crazy.

James Duke 1:10:22

Yeah yeah is that something that you have a lot of conversations about is that something that a lot of people are like Scott what what is the deal with this is like is it provided opportunities for you to really kind of help people understand hey look uh this might not be how you believe but this is how this is my understanding of how scripture is uh I certainly don't defend the knuckleheads I I try to defend what I like the spirit of where people are coming from uh even though I may just do vastly disagree with them um and how we're all on a path we're on a journey of understanding and some of us I don't want to say further along but some of us are are it at this segment you know are are up over here and some people are still down over here and uh it's not coming from a malicious thing that um well most are most are coming there's some that are but there are some you're right there are there are some absolutely horrible examples of people who say they are followers of Christ.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:24

I mean every time I go to Comic Con and those those idiots are out there screaming at people uh I'm just like what what are you doing? Why why is this helpful? Yeah they're my favorite um yeah I I uh I actually get upset with with when I talk to friends who um complain about like oh I feel so persecuted and all of that because it's that's just to me that's just I don't I don't even know what that means. I don't I don't know where it comes from I have never experienced uh that and it but I mean a writer's room is caustic anyway. We're all making fun of each other to a certain extent you know right uh we're all hacking on each other that's just part of the process.

James Duke 1:12:09

It's very much a family environment broth siblings picking on each other.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:12

Yeah yeah yeah yeah uh yeah I that has not been my experience I don't like the thought of of uh like the victim the victimization sort of thing that just drives me crazy and maybe uh uh if you do feel like you're being victimized because of your faith or whatever or your biases or whatever um maybe you need to look at those things and and see if they really are part of a tradition or that that has no relevance anymore or if it's uh alive and real nowadays you know I I I uh may maybe maybe uh you need to look at what you believe and uh and and and really decide if this is is this is this just religion or is this something that Jesus was about? Uh nine times out of ten you're gonna uh err on I I believe we need to err on the side of grace and love which is the story that he was telling, you know? Uh making the kingdom of heaven now. Um and all the other sort of judgment and I don't know it's just I mean and and I grew up thinking those a lot of those things. Uh and uh I I don't anymore and uh my faith is probably more vibrant and alive. I don't say more because it's it's it it's a spectrum. It's just a different place. And it's better and closer and and feels more like the words of Jesus than uh a a series of judgments from a um some being that's up top in space looking down on us with uh disgust. Yeah which is how I grew up I grew up thinking that I grew up thinking I'm I I am steeped in sin and I'm a loser and I'm terrible and this is and all I do is fail. And I define myself by what I didn't do than rather what I do do. You know doo doo doo doo.

James Duke 1:14:14

Yeah you define yourself by doo doo and that that's the uh that's the that's the lead that I'm gonna um when I put this push this out to social media put you define yourself by doo doo. Scott I will say that uh you know you and your wife Amy have been such uh have been such beautiful examples to me and my wife and uh we just uh love you guys and the way you love up the way you guys choose to love on other people invite people into your lives and give your lives away for other people uh it's a beautiful thing and and um I just thank you for your friendship and I thank you for this time and I just appreciate appreciate you appreciate all all that you do and all your hard work well you guys have always been our secret project so I'm I'm happy that you've come along so far.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:05

That's right that's right we still always Amy Amy's unbelievable Amy is uh such a kind and gracious person that she makes me a much more kind and gracious person because that's not my natural predilection. Uh even the way that she's helping she's having us help you know uh refugee families and things like that. That's right. It's she's she's you should we should always be trying to connect ourselves with people that are going to make us better. Whether that means you know uh in some sort of spiritual whatever way or as as a writer you should be connecting yourself with people that are better than you because that's the only way you're gonna become a better writer. I see so many people who just sort of like surround themselves with people at the same sort of level or they're maybe the top of the heap and if you're doing that you'll never you'll never be great. You'll never you'll never you'll never be great. If you're not being challenged by other people the people that that you that are in your life uh maybe you need to start thinking about other folks.

James Duke 1:16:05

That's right. That's great. That's a love I love that all right we'll we'll end there. I just thank you thank you for who you are thank you for all that you do thank you for your friendship and um okay and uh and I appreciate you and if it's okay I I I like to end i I'm trying to end these podcasts with being able to say a prayer for uh for you so can I can I pray for you real quick? Sure. All right let's do this make you feel uncomfortable. Dear God thank you so much for Scott thank you so much for who he is I pray a blessing upon his family his relationship with his wonderful wife Amy and his awesome kids and pray you'd be with him in uh all of his endeavors and his career and just uh keep giving him opportunities to be able to love on other people and make an impact on other people's lives and pray this in Jesus standing in Trump's death. Thanks for listening to the Act One podcast to learn more about our programs visit us online at act oneprogram dot coming