{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":11.771,"endTime":15.161,"body":"This is a voice, a podcast with Dr."},{"startTime":15.166,"endTime":17.286,"body":"Gillyanne Kayes and Jeremy Fisher."},{"startTime":17.916,"endTime":19.846,"body":"This is a voice."},{"startTime":21.836,"endTime":26.521,"body":"Hello, and welcome to this is a voice"},{"startTime":21.836,"endTime":26.521,"body":"season six episode two, the podcast"},{"startTime":26.521,"endTime":28.651,"body":"where we get Vocal about voice."},{"startTime":28.741,"endTime":31.471,"body":"And this is the PEVoC experience part two."},{"startTime":31.471,"endTime":33.901,"body":"So we are back at the pan"},{"startTime":31.471,"endTime":33.901,"body":"European voice conference."},{"startTime":33.901,"endTime":36.031,"body":"And this time we're gonna be"},{"startTime":33.901,"endTime":36.031,"body":"talking about what we did."},{"startTime":36.444,"endTime":39.894,"body":"Jeremy, how was it for you"},{"startTime":36.444,"endTime":39.894,"body":"doing your very first workshop"},{"startTime":40.194,"endTime":42.174,"body":"at a voice science conference?"},{"startTime":42.324,"endTime":45.654,"body":"Um, probably one of the scariest"},{"startTime":42.324,"endTime":45.654,"body":"things I've done, uh, a lot"},{"startTime":45.654,"endTime":48.324,"body":"scarier than doing most of the"},{"startTime":45.654,"endTime":48.324,"body":"concerts I've ever done in my life."},{"startTime":48.834,"endTime":52.434,"body":"Uh, it was really fascinating because"},{"startTime":48.834,"endTime":52.434,"body":"there's so much about it that, I mean, you"},{"startTime":52.434,"endTime":55.584,"body":"have your presentation, but you have no"},{"startTime":52.434,"endTime":55.584,"body":"idea how many people are gonna be there."},{"startTime":55.764,"endTime":56.164,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":56.649,"endTime":58.479,"body":"Or if you're even gonna"},{"startTime":56.649,"endTime":58.479,"body":"have an audience at all."},{"startTime":59.289,"endTime":63.669,"body":"So, um, yeah, there were a lot of pluses,"},{"startTime":59.289,"endTime":63.669,"body":"I mean, fantastic space to work in."},{"startTime":63.669,"endTime":66.139,"body":"It was the concert hall and I"},{"startTime":63.669,"endTime":66.139,"body":"think it's a 600 seater theatre."},{"startTime":66.189,"endTime":67.659,"body":"Mm-hmm,  really lovely."},{"startTime":67.659,"endTime":74.069,"body":"And a full concert D Steinway"},{"startTime":67.659,"endTime":74.069,"body":"grand, which was beautiful."},{"startTime":74.619,"endTime":77.799,"body":"I wasn't originally going to play"},{"startTime":74.619,"endTime":77.799,"body":"the piano, but being presented"},{"startTime":77.799,"endTime":79.809,"body":"with that, I just went well,"},{"startTime":77.799,"endTime":79.809,"body":"I'll play the piano anyway."},{"startTime":79.809,"endTime":80.789,"body":"You just couldn't resist."},{"startTime":80.789,"endTime":81.309,"body":"Could you?"},{"startTime":81.309,"endTime":81.509,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":81.849,"endTime":87.309,"body":"So my, uh, my workshop was"},{"startTime":81.849,"endTime":87.309,"body":"called, \"Get On, Sing, Get Off\"."},{"startTime":87.579,"endTime":90.399,"body":"And it was all about tone"},{"startTime":87.579,"endTime":90.399,"body":"onset and offsets, which is how"},{"startTime":90.399,"endTime":91.429,"body":"you start and finish a note."},{"startTime":92.949,"endTime":96.039,"body":"And it was sort of, I had an hour"},{"startTime":92.949,"endTime":96.039,"body":"to play with, which is quite a"},{"startTime":96.039,"endTime":97.509,"body":"long time for something like this."},{"startTime":97.809,"endTime":103.689,"body":"So I started with some industry"},{"startTime":97.809,"endTime":103.689,"body":"examples, uh, some videos of people"},{"startTime":103.779,"endTime":105.429,"body":"demonstrating, onset and offsets."},{"startTime":105.429,"endTime":108.399,"body":"And in fact, what makes it quite"},{"startTime":105.429,"endTime":108.399,"body":"difficult to find the industry"},{"startTime":108.399,"endTime":113.019,"body":"examples is I really wanted people"},{"startTime":108.399,"endTime":113.019,"body":"who would demonstrate an onset or an"},{"startTime":113.019,"endTime":115.389,"body":"offset several times in a sentence."},{"startTime":115.479,"endTime":118.059,"body":"And that's quite hard to find mm-hmm"},{"startTime":115.479,"endTime":118.059,"body":"because singers are incredibly"},{"startTime":118.059,"endTime":121.499,"body":"creative and they will use whatever"},{"startTime":118.059,"endTime":121.499,"body":"onset and offset works for them."},{"startTime":122.109,"endTime":126.519,"body":"But I did find a whole load of glottal"},{"startTime":122.109,"endTime":126.519,"body":"onsets and offsets from Beyonce."},{"startTime":126.579,"endTime":126.999,"body":"Bless her."},{"startTime":127.599,"endTime":129.909,"body":"So, um, that's a very well known number."},{"startTime":129.909,"endTime":130.239,"body":"Isn't it?"},{"startTime":130.239,"endTime":132.489,"body":"It was, yeah, we put it"},{"startTime":130.239,"endTime":132.489,"body":"in the show notes maybe."},{"startTime":132.489,"endTime":133.059,"body":"Yes, we will."},{"startTime":133.059,"endTime":133.719,"body":"People can listen."},{"startTime":133.779,"endTime":134.139,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":134.139,"endTime":138.869,"body":"I'm I'm gonna show you exactly the point"},{"startTime":134.139,"endTime":138.869,"body":"in the, in the video that she does that."},{"startTime":138.869,"endTime":139.949,"body":"So we'll put that in the show notes."},{"startTime":140.369,"endTime":144.989,"body":"And then I found I'm so pleased"},{"startTime":140.369,"endTime":144.989,"body":"to find this, uh, Lizzo love"},{"startTime":144.989,"endTime":146.429,"body":"what Lizzo does love the singing."},{"startTime":146.519,"endTime":147.389,"body":"Drama."},{"startTime":147.509,"endTime":148.199,"body":"Oh yeah."},{"startTime":148.199,"endTime":152.669,"body":"And, uh, so I was looking for Yodel"},{"startTime":148.199,"endTime":152.669,"body":"flip onsets and offsets, and she"},{"startTime":152.669,"endTime":154.739,"body":"does, I think, five of them in a row."},{"startTime":155.809,"endTime":159.229,"body":"um, which was in a song"},{"startTime":155.809,"endTime":159.229,"body":"called, Cuz I Love You."},{"startTime":159.739,"endTime":162.229,"body":"And it's got such an"},{"startTime":159.739,"endTime":162.229,"body":"emotional impact, hasn't it?"},{"startTime":162.469,"endTime":162.769,"body":"Oh, absolutely."},{"startTime":162.769,"endTime":167.859,"body":"This was one of the premises of the"},{"startTime":162.769,"endTime":167.859,"body":"workshop, not just learning how to do"},{"startTime":167.859,"endTime":173.639,"body":"the different onsets for fun and control,"},{"startTime":167.859,"endTime":173.639,"body":"but also raising people's awareness"},{"startTime":173.639,"endTime":176.399,"body":"that you can use them as emotional cues."},{"startTime":176.459,"endTime":176.909,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":177.249,"endTime":181.924,"body":"The premise in a way was that I was"},{"startTime":177.249,"endTime":181.924,"body":"going to sing a line of a song, keep the"},{"startTime":181.924,"endTime":185.944,"body":"line of the song exactly the same as far"},{"startTime":181.924,"endTime":185.944,"body":"as I could, but then change the way I"},{"startTime":185.944,"endTime":187.534,"body":"started the line and finished the line."},{"startTime":187.534,"endTime":189.364,"body":"So the tone onset and offset at the end."},{"startTime":189.364,"endTime":195.004,"body":"Mm-hmm  and I did, um, I just, I just"},{"startTime":189.364,"endTime":195.004,"body":"want to say I had a third excerpt, which"},{"startTime":195.004,"endTime":199.007,"body":"was wonderful which is a group that"},{"startTime":195.004,"endTime":199.007,"body":"I'd never heard of called SouLounge."},{"startTime":199.337,"endTime":202.547,"body":"And the lead singer at that"},{"startTime":199.337,"endTime":202.547,"body":"particular recording was Roger Cicero."},{"startTime":202.877,"endTime":204.047,"body":"Who's a German jazz singer."},{"startTime":204.077,"endTime":204.977,"body":"Was a German jazz singer."},{"startTime":204.977,"endTime":205.607,"body":"He's now died."},{"startTime":206.267,"endTime":208.757,"body":"Um, and a song called How Come"},{"startTime":206.267,"endTime":208.757,"body":"You Don't Call Me Anymore."},{"startTime":208.757,"endTime":210.317,"body":"And that was really unusual."},{"startTime":210.377,"endTime":211.697,"body":"I was so pleased to find this."},{"startTime":211.697,"endTime":216.637,"body":"It was, um, it was given to me by"},{"startTime":211.697,"endTime":216.637,"body":"one of our Accreditation people."},{"startTime":216.697,"endTime":218.877,"body":"Jan, thank you, Jan, Jan Jinkerson."},{"startTime":218.977,"endTime":219.397,"body":"Thank you."},{"startTime":219.397,"endTime":221.077,"body":"Such a great example."},{"startTime":221.077,"endTime":226.192,"body":"And it's a man doing a Yodel flip"},{"startTime":221.077,"endTime":226.192,"body":"onset, but what normally happens in a"},{"startTime":226.192,"endTime":228.592,"body":"yodel flip is you flip from up to down."},{"startTime":228.592,"endTime":234.062,"body":"So it's her, her it's basically"},{"startTime":228.592,"endTime":234.062,"body":"falsetto to chest, or M2 to M1,"},{"startTime":234.087,"endTime":235.652,"body":"whichever way you want to describe it."},{"startTime":236.672,"endTime":239.942,"body":"What was unusual about this"},{"startTime":236.672,"endTime":239.942,"body":"particular song is that he"},{"startTime":239.942,"endTime":241.052,"body":"does it the other way around."},{"startTime":241.052,"endTime":244.322,"body":"So he goes from an M1 to an"},{"startTime":241.052,"endTime":244.322,"body":"M2, or a chest to a falsetto."},{"startTime":245.282,"endTime":252.032,"body":"So it was, um, ah, keep and it was so"},{"startTime":245.282,"endTime":252.032,"body":"unusual to find it that way around."},{"startTime":252.092,"endTime":256.022,"body":"So, and then after that, he just"},{"startTime":252.092,"endTime":256.022,"body":"used virtually every onset known man."},{"startTime":256.052,"endTime":259.312,"body":"Oh, it's a beautiful excerpt, uh, and"},{"startTime":256.052,"endTime":259.312,"body":"again, we'll put that in the show notes."},{"startTime":259.342,"endTime":263.022,"body":"If go and listen to this track"},{"startTime":259.342,"endTime":263.022,"body":"because it is absolutely wonderful."},{"startTime":263.062,"endTime":266.322,"body":"And, um, give it, do yourself"},{"startTime":263.062,"endTime":266.322,"body":"a favor, work out how many"},{"startTime":266.322,"endTime":268.152,"body":"different onsets you can spot."},{"startTime":268.152,"endTime":268.692,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":268.992,"endTime":270.282,"body":"And what you would call them."},{"startTime":270.432,"endTime":270.732,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":270.972,"endTime":274.602,"body":"So, um, this, the workshop"},{"startTime":270.972,"endTime":274.602,"body":"was basically in three parts."},{"startTime":274.602,"endTime":278.232,"body":"The first part was demonstrating,"},{"startTime":274.602,"endTime":278.232,"body":"uh, industry examples."},{"startTime":278.262,"endTime":279.737,"body":"Mm-hmm . Uh, with recordings."},{"startTime":279.737,"endTime":285.437,"body":"The second part was me doing nine"},{"startTime":279.737,"endTime":285.437,"body":"different tone onsets and offsets"},{"startTime":285.437,"endTime":289.307,"body":"in a row mm-hmm . And I'd given"},{"startTime":285.437,"endTime":289.307,"body":"people a handout to say, what is the"},{"startTime":289.307,"endTime":292.727,"body":"emotion that, that this does for you?"},{"startTime":293.027,"endTime":295.877,"body":"It's very difficult to actually word"},{"startTime":293.027,"endTime":295.877,"body":"that question, but it was basically"},{"startTime":296.057,"endTime":299.892,"body":"what emotional reaction do you have"},{"startTime":296.057,"endTime":299.892,"body":"to the sentence with that onset"},{"startTime":299.972,"endTime":301.302,"body":"mm-hmm  mm-hmm or that offset."},{"startTime":301.422,"endTime":303.462,"body":"Was it the same as the previous sentence?"},{"startTime":303.522,"endTime":308.832,"body":"And in which case put same, if you ever"},{"startTime":303.522,"endTime":308.832,"body":"want to hear someone really break down"},{"startTime":308.832,"endTime":313.607,"body":"with a fine tooth comb,  a different"},{"startTime":308.832,"endTime":313.607,"body":"onset and note approach by using the same"},{"startTime":313.612,"endTime":315.377,"body":"phrase, but doing it in different ways."},{"startTime":316.192,"endTime":316.402,"body":"Hmm."},{"startTime":316.642,"endTime":318.802,"body":"Um, Jeremy is masterful at it."},{"startTime":318.952,"endTime":320.542,"body":"I was, it was huge fun."},{"startTime":320.547,"endTime":321.652,"body":"So I did nine in a row."},{"startTime":321.682,"endTime":325.882,"body":"And that was, I think that was the thing"},{"startTime":321.682,"endTime":325.882,"body":"I was the most nervous about because"},{"startTime":325.882,"endTime":329.872,"body":"when you get nervous, you know, you"},{"startTime":325.882,"endTime":329.872,"body":"are not quite sure what your voice is"},{"startTime":329.872,"endTime":331.402,"body":"gonna do and what's gonna come out."},{"startTime":331.462,"endTime":336.022,"body":"And because I was doing stuff that"},{"startTime":331.462,"endTime":336.022,"body":"was so precise, I really needed to"},{"startTime":336.022,"endTime":338.262,"body":"be fully on top of what I was doing."},{"startTime":338.922,"endTime":342.162,"body":"Um, so that was part two where I"},{"startTime":338.922,"endTime":342.162,"body":"demonstrated and people made notes."},{"startTime":342.192,"endTime":346.362,"body":"And then part three, which was the main"},{"startTime":342.192,"endTime":346.362,"body":"part of the workshop was I'm gonna take"},{"startTime":346.362,"endTime":351.802,"body":"everybody through how you do, hopefully"},{"startTime":346.362,"endTime":351.802,"body":"all nine of the onsets and offsets."},{"startTime":351.822,"endTime":354.312,"body":"And in fact, I finished 10 minutes early."},{"startTime":354.367,"endTime":356.767,"body":"And so we ended up doing"},{"startTime":354.367,"endTime":356.767,"body":"combinations as well."},{"startTime":356.767,"endTime":358.627,"body":"So I think I did 11 or 12 altogether."},{"startTime":358.687,"endTime":362.167,"body":"It was quite fun actually,"},{"startTime":358.687,"endTime":362.167,"body":"because what happens with, um,"},{"startTime":362.197,"endTime":363.547,"body":"these kind of events often?"},{"startTime":363.552,"endTime":366.307,"body":"There's, I mean, there were"},{"startTime":363.552,"endTime":366.307,"body":"eight concurrent events."},{"startTime":366.427,"endTime":366.787,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":366.817,"endTime":369.337,"body":"So people can sometimes,"},{"startTime":366.817,"endTime":369.337,"body":"you know, move in and out."},{"startTime":369.342,"endTime":371.227,"body":"They'll stay for half the"},{"startTime":369.342,"endTime":371.227,"body":"workshop and move out."},{"startTime":371.407,"endTime":371.467,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":371.677,"endTime":376.027,"body":"There are group people who came in, I"},{"startTime":371.677,"endTime":376.027,"body":"think about halfway through and they"},{"startTime":376.027,"endTime":378.252,"body":"very politely went up into the balcony."},{"startTime":378.642,"endTime":382.182,"body":"By the end of this workshop,"},{"startTime":378.642,"endTime":382.182,"body":"they were having a party."},{"startTime":382.182,"endTime":382.862,"body":"They were having a party."},{"startTime":382.862,"endTime":386.382,"body":"They were playing around with each other,"},{"startTime":382.862,"endTime":386.382,"body":"you know, they were basically rocking out."},{"startTime":386.682,"endTime":388.022,"body":"They were bouncing up up there."},{"startTime":388.022,"endTime":389.502,"body":"It was, uh, it was just such fun."},{"startTime":389.724,"endTime":393.904,"body":"And by the way, that was an extra strain"},{"startTime":389.724,"endTime":393.904,"body":"in a way on, on my nerves, because what"},{"startTime":393.909,"endTime":398.254,"body":"we discovered, because I was in the"},{"startTime":393.909,"endTime":398.254,"body":"main concert hall, which, uh, opened"},{"startTime":398.284,"endTime":402.034,"body":"out onto the reception area where"},{"startTime":398.284,"endTime":402.034,"body":"we had all the food, we had coffee,"},{"startTime":402.034,"endTime":403.254,"body":"we meetings, all sorts of things."},{"startTime":403.254,"endTime":403.314,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":403.734,"endTime":407.334,"body":"What I didn't realize until I got there"},{"startTime":403.734,"endTime":407.334,"body":"was that whatever was being put on in"},{"startTime":407.334,"endTime":411.684,"body":"the concert hall was piped out into"},{"startTime":407.334,"endTime":411.684,"body":"the, into the, the main reception area."},{"startTime":412.044,"endTime":414.674,"body":"So everyone could hear what I was"},{"startTime":412.044,"endTime":414.674,"body":"doing, cuz we were all on microphone."},{"startTime":414.724,"endTime":416.434,"body":"Well, hopefully that's why they came in."},{"startTime":416.434,"endTime":417.754,"body":"That's why they came in."},{"startTime":417.759,"endTime":419.464,"body":"So they heard what I was doing."},{"startTime":419.734,"endTime":420.964,"body":"So that was huge fun."},{"startTime":421.024,"endTime":424.864,"body":"And, um, we, we actually got"},{"startTime":421.024,"endTime":424.864,"body":"through all of them and then I made"},{"startTime":424.864,"endTime":428.284,"body":"everybody go through all of them"},{"startTime":424.864,"endTime":428.284,"body":"in a row and make comments on them."},{"startTime":428.614,"endTime":430.384,"body":"So that was great fun."},{"startTime":430.384,"endTime":433.324,"body":"And I'm, I'm so pleased that"},{"startTime":430.384,"endTime":433.324,"body":"we've done this workshop."},{"startTime":433.324,"endTime":435.724,"body":"That's my first outing of that workshop."},{"startTime":435.754,"endTime":439.564,"body":"Mm-hmm  but I have done"},{"startTime":435.754,"endTime":439.564,"body":"quite a lot of what we did."},{"startTime":439.654,"endTime":443.884,"body":"Um, most of the tone onsets and"},{"startTime":439.654,"endTime":443.884,"body":"offsets are already on the learning."},{"startTime":444.819,"endTime":446.909,"body":"In Best Practice Update."},{"startTime":446.939,"endTime":447.359,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":447.509,"endTime":449.279,"body":"And you, you can put a link to that."},{"startTime":449.279,"endTime":452.549,"body":"Can't you can put a link to"},{"startTime":449.279,"endTime":452.549,"body":"that specific, yep, video."},{"startTime":452.609,"endTime":454.949,"body":"Unfortunately, we didn't"},{"startTime":452.609,"endTime":454.949,"body":"record this workshop."},{"startTime":454.954,"endTime":455.009,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":455.039,"endTime":457.649,"body":"But we did record the Best"},{"startTime":455.039,"endTime":457.649,"body":"Practice Update presentation,"},{"startTime":457.649,"endTime":459.629,"body":"which was a five hour presentation."},{"startTime":459.634,"endTime":460.049,"body":"I think we did."},{"startTime":460.429,"endTime":463.479,"body":"With all sorts of things in it, it"},{"startTime":460.429,"endTime":463.479,"body":"was with a large group of people."},{"startTime":463.479,"endTime":466.539,"body":"And when you hear these"},{"startTime":463.479,"endTime":466.539,"body":"done chorally, yeah."},{"startTime":466.539,"endTime":471.009,"body":"It's also fascinating because if you"},{"startTime":466.539,"endTime":471.009,"body":"do work with ensembles and, and choir"},{"startTime":471.009,"endTime":476.019,"body":"groups, you know, quite often people"},{"startTime":471.009,"endTime":476.019,"body":"will, will have an onset that they favour."},{"startTime":476.349,"endTime":481.389,"body":"And if you really want a very kind of"},{"startTime":476.349,"endTime":481.389,"body":"coherent and coordinated performance,"},{"startTime":481.749,"endTime":483.999,"body":"getting people to do the same onset."},{"startTime":485.094,"endTime":488.634,"body":"And in time together,"},{"startTime":485.094,"endTime":488.634,"body":"that's a powerful thing."},{"startTime":488.694,"endTime":491.784,"body":"And I have to say, I think onset"},{"startTime":488.694,"endTime":491.784,"body":"and offsets are really, really"},{"startTime":491.784,"endTime":493.614,"body":"useful to help people change style."},{"startTime":493.644,"endTime":493.994,"body":"Mm."},{"startTime":494.304,"endTime":499.674,"body":"Change style change genre, because so"},{"startTime":494.304,"endTime":499.674,"body":"many genres, um, have a particular group"},{"startTime":499.674,"endTime":501.384,"body":"of onset or offsets that they love."},{"startTime":501.924,"endTime":506.424,"body":"And, uh, just as a sort of little"},{"startTime":501.924,"endTime":506.424,"body":"end view, end note, um, there was"},{"startTime":506.424,"endTime":507.984,"body":"somebody sitting on the back row."},{"startTime":508.374,"endTime":510.864,"body":"Uh, and I asked for questions at"},{"startTime":508.374,"endTime":510.864,"body":"the end, questions or comments,"},{"startTime":510.864,"endTime":512.364,"body":"and he loved what we were doing."},{"startTime":512.364,"endTime":516.234,"body":"Mm-hmm  and then he said, but isn't"},{"startTime":512.364,"endTime":516.234,"body":"it, doesn't it doesn't it come across"},{"startTime":516.234,"endTime":521.004,"body":"as fake when you are basically, you"},{"startTime":516.234,"endTime":521.004,"body":"know, telling people to do this mm-hmm."},{"startTime":521.184,"endTime":524.774,"body":"And I said, you know, basically thank you"},{"startTime":521.184,"endTime":524.774,"body":"for reminding me because there is one more"},{"startTime":524.774,"endTime":529.484,"body":"sentence that I forgot to say, which is I"},{"startTime":524.774,"endTime":529.484,"body":"teach people to do all of these onset and"},{"startTime":529.484,"endTime":531.554,"body":"it's really precise and really specific."},{"startTime":531.764,"endTime":534.302,"body":"And then once you've got"},{"startTime":531.764,"endTime":534.302,"body":"them, make them your own."},{"startTime":534.722,"endTime":534.752,"body":"Mm."},{"startTime":535.047,"endTime":539.397,"body":"And that means they stop becoming fake"},{"startTime":535.047,"endTime":539.397,"body":"and they just become part of the massive"},{"startTime":539.397,"endTime":543.057,"body":"toolbox that you have as a singer,"},{"startTime":539.397,"endTime":543.057,"body":"where you go, oh, I could do that one."},{"startTime":543.057,"endTime":546.237,"body":"Or you don't even do that"},{"startTime":543.057,"endTime":546.237,"body":"sometimes, you just make the sounds"},{"startTime":546.447,"endTime":547.827,"body":"because that's what singers do."},{"startTime":548.247,"endTime":549.957,"body":"It's also what we do when we speak."},{"startTime":549.957,"endTime":550.347,"body":"Isn't it?"},{"startTime":550.437,"endTime":550.797,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":551.747,"endTime":554.567,"body":"oh, and he was so keen because"},{"startTime":551.747,"endTime":554.567,"body":"he's been talking about"},{"startTime":554.567,"endTime":556.547,"body":"onsets and offsets in acting."},{"startTime":557.447,"endTime":560.627,"body":"Um, and he, I mean, he basically"},{"startTime":557.447,"endTime":560.627,"body":"said to me, I thought I was the only"},{"startTime":560.627,"endTime":561.857,"body":"one in the world who was doing this."},{"startTime":561.857,"endTime":563.867,"body":"And then I come to your workshop"},{"startTime":561.857,"endTime":563.867,"body":"and you do it all the time."},{"startTime":563.897,"endTime":567.317,"body":"He was very into phonetics and"},{"startTime":563.897,"endTime":567.317,"body":"he could see the links between"},{"startTime":567.317,"endTime":570.527,"body":"the phonetic literature and, um,"},{"startTime":567.317,"endTime":570.527,"body":"this work that we were doing."},{"startTime":570.617,"endTime":570.827,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":570.857,"endTime":572.537,"body":"Which absolutely gladdened our hearts."},{"startTime":572.537,"endTime":572.807,"body":"Didn't it?"},{"startTime":573.047,"endTime":573.447,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":574.577,"endTime":575.927,"body":"So that was my workshop."},{"startTime":576.047,"endTime":578.387,"body":"Um, very relieved to have done it."},{"startTime":578.417,"endTime":578.447,"body":"Mm."},{"startTime":578.987,"endTime":583.097,"body":"Uh, I have to say once we started"},{"startTime":578.987,"endTime":583.097,"body":"and I got into working with"},{"startTime":583.097,"endTime":584.447,"body":"the audience, that was great."},{"startTime":584.477,"endTime":587.987,"body":"Mm-hmm um, so very happy to do it and"},{"startTime":584.477,"endTime":587.987,"body":"very happy to do it again, actually."},{"startTime":587.987,"endTime":589.037,"body":"Yeah, very much so."},{"startTime":589.037,"endTime":592.847,"body":"It's a very powerful workshop,"},{"startTime":589.037,"endTime":592.847,"body":"even though it, it looks really"},{"startTime":592.847,"endTime":594.457,"body":"straightforward paper mm-hmm"},{"startTime":595.517,"endTime":598.817,"body":"So if you want to hear, uh, some of the"},{"startTime":595.517,"endTime":598.817,"body":"things that I was doing, I'm sorry, we"},{"startTime":598.817,"endTime":602.267,"body":"didn't record the actual workshop, but"},{"startTime":598.817,"endTime":602.267,"body":"they are all in the Learning Lounge."},{"startTime":602.642,"endTime":607.202,"body":"Uh, so join the Learning Lounge and"},{"startTime":602.642,"endTime":607.202,"body":"go and look at Best Practice Update."},{"startTime":607.202,"endTime":611.852,"body":"And I think it's video"},{"startTime":607.202,"endTime":611.852,"body":"6-9C, something like that."},{"startTime":612.062,"endTime":612.662,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":612.782,"endTime":615.602,"body":"So nifty little call to"},{"startTime":612.782,"endTime":615.602,"body":"action there people, do it."},{"startTime":615.662,"endTime":615.902,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":617.522,"endTime":618.592,"body":"Well, let, let's talk about me."},{"startTime":618.962,"endTime":620.612,"body":"Let's talk about your Round Table."},{"startTime":620.702,"endTime":621.002,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":621.637,"endTime":626.297,"body":"Um, I mean, we said in the previous"},{"startTime":621.637,"endTime":626.297,"body":"episode, what a Round Table is, and"},{"startTime":626.297,"endTime":630.287,"body":"basically Gillyanne was invited to"},{"startTime":626.297,"endTime":630.287,"body":"chair a Round Table, which means she"},{"startTime":630.292,"endTime":632.297,"body":"gets to invite whoever she wants."},{"startTime":632.807,"endTime":634.997,"body":"Ooh I could invite"},{"startTime":632.807,"endTime":634.997,"body":"people to come and play."},{"startTime":634.997,"endTime":636.557,"body":"It was really, really nice."},{"startTime":636.857,"endTime":643.397,"body":"So the way this Round Table came about"},{"startTime":636.857,"endTime":643.397,"body":"was that, um, A couple of years back,"},{"startTime":643.397,"endTime":645.737,"body":"cuz PEVoC was delayed by one year."},{"startTime":645.797,"endTime":647.717,"body":"It should have been in 2021."},{"startTime":648.317,"endTime":652.787,"body":"Um, Allan Vurma got in touch with me"},{"startTime":648.317,"endTime":652.787,"body":"because he, he wanted some contact"},{"startTime":652.787,"endTime":657.227,"body":"names in the UK and he said, if"},{"startTime":652.787,"endTime":657.227,"body":"you have any idea, you know, for"},{"startTime":657.232,"endTime":663.467,"body":"events or kind of keynotes for us"},{"startTime":657.232,"endTime":663.467,"body":"at PEVoC you know, do share them."},{"startTime":663.587,"endTime":669.872,"body":"And I said, I think we need some kind"},{"startTime":663.587,"endTime":669.872,"body":"of conversation about the links between"},{"startTime":669.872,"endTime":672.542,"body":"voice science and singing voice pedagogy."},{"startTime":672.602,"endTime":672.692,"body":"Yep."},{"startTime":674.012,"endTime":679.232,"body":"And, uh, I sort of naughtily wave the"},{"startTime":674.012,"endTime":679.232,"body":"title \"Voice Science, Do We Need It?\""},{"startTime":679.572,"endTime":684.097,"body":"in front of him and nothing much happened"},{"startTime":679.572,"endTime":684.097,"body":"for a while because PEVoC didn't happen."},{"startTime":684.097,"endTime":687.877,"body":"And then eventually I had an"},{"startTime":684.097,"endTime":687.877,"body":"email from him and it felt like"},{"startTime":687.882,"endTime":689.137,"body":"it was out the blue from him."},{"startTime":689.137,"endTime":695.767,"body":"And Kristel Kalling saying, uh, we'd"},{"startTime":689.137,"endTime":695.767,"body":"like you to do this Round Table."},{"startTime":695.767,"endTime":696.937,"body":"Would you consider doing it?"},{"startTime":696.937,"endTime":698.527,"body":"And I thought, would I ever!"},{"startTime":698.532,"endTime":703.597,"body":"Mm-hmm  so the official title is"},{"startTime":698.532,"endTime":703.597,"body":"\"Voice Science, Do We Need It?"},{"startTime":703.647,"endTime":708.247,"body":"Finding meeting points between"},{"startTime":703.647,"endTime":708.247,"body":"the science and the craft\"."},{"startTime":708.562,"endTime":712.742,"body":"So it's a little bit of a"},{"startTime":708.562,"endTime":712.742,"body":"softer, you know, subtitle."},{"startTime":712.762,"endTime":713.722,"body":"It's an interesting one, isn't it?"},{"startTime":713.722,"endTime":718.662,"body":"Because there is a lot of communication"},{"startTime":713.722,"endTime":718.662,"body":"now that didn't used to be mm-hmm  between"},{"startTime":718.662,"endTime":721.972,"body":"voice scientists and the practitioners,"},{"startTime":718.662,"endTime":721.972,"body":"the singing teachers, the Vocal peda..."},{"startTime":721.972,"endTime":725.983,"body":"pedagogue s mm-hmm . There is"},{"startTime":721.972,"endTime":725.983,"body":"more communication, but what's so"},{"startTime":725.983,"endTime":729.373,"body":"fascinating for me is that they do"},{"startTime":725.983,"endTime":729.373,"body":"speak entirely different languages."},{"startTime":729.378,"endTime":729.703,"body":"Mm-hmm , mm-hmm."},{"startTime":730.063,"endTime":733.873,"body":"And sometimes there's communication"},{"startTime":730.063,"endTime":733.873,"body":"and sometimes there's miscommunication"},{"startTime":734.083,"endTime":738.403,"body":"and sometimes people use phraseology"},{"startTime":734.083,"endTime":738.403,"body":"that is specific to them that the"},{"startTime":738.403,"endTime":739.873,"body":"other person may or may not understand."},{"startTime":740.448,"endTime":741.828,"body":"There's a lot of things going on."},{"startTime":741.948,"endTime":742.308,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":742.308,"endTime":745.998,"body":"I mean, in voice science, um,"},{"startTime":742.308,"endTime":745.998,"body":"particularly with the hard scientists,"},{"startTime":745.998,"endTime":751.008,"body":"it's about controlling variables and"},{"startTime":745.998,"endTime":751.008,"body":"of course the singer in the room is"},{"startTime":751.013,"endTime":752.838,"body":"a variable for a singing teacher."},{"startTime":752.868,"endTime":752.988,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":753.348,"endTime":757.608,"body":"Um, and also in voice science, you"},{"startTime":753.348,"endTime":757.608,"body":"know, we define parameters and we,"},{"startTime":758.028,"endTime":760.188,"body":"um, will define our terminology."},{"startTime":761.418,"endTime":765.018,"body":"And you will all know if you"},{"startTime":761.418,"endTime":765.018,"body":"are a singing teacher or even"},{"startTime":765.018,"endTime":768.348,"body":"a voice teacher that people use"},{"startTime":765.018,"endTime":768.348,"body":"different words for the same thing."},{"startTime":769.033,"endTime":772.363,"body":"We even use different words for"},{"startTime":769.033,"endTime":772.363,"body":"the same thing with individual"},{"startTime":772.363,"endTime":775.033,"body":"clients and sometimes the same"},{"startTime":772.363,"endTime":775.033,"body":"words means different things."},{"startTime":775.063,"endTime":775.453,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":775.513,"endTime":780.399,"body":"I think actually that singing teachers"},{"startTime":775.513,"endTime":780.399,"body":"need to be multi-lexical, because we're"},{"startTime":780.399,"endTime":782.109,"body":"always working with that individual."},{"startTime":782.114,"endTime":784.989,"body":"If you, if you're gonna be a singing"},{"startTime":782.114,"endTime":784.989,"body":"teacher who is client focused, then you"},{"startTime":784.989,"endTime":789.399,"body":"need to know what that client, what that"},{"startTime":784.989,"endTime":789.399,"body":"singer in front of you uses in the heads."},{"startTime":789.459,"endTime":792.549,"body":"You know, how they describe the"},{"startTime":789.459,"endTime":792.549,"body":"sound themselves to, to themselves."},{"startTime":793.269,"endTime":797.289,"body":"And if you listened to our previous"},{"startTime":793.269,"endTime":797.289,"body":"podcast episode one from series"},{"startTime":797.289,"endTime":802.019,"body":"six, you'll have heard us talking"},{"startTime":797.289,"endTime":802.019,"body":"about allan Vurma's keynote."},{"startTime":802.049,"endTime":802.199,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":802.509,"endTime":804.654,"body":"And also Johan Sundberg's keynote."},{"startTime":804.654,"endTime":808.704,"body":"And they, both of them touched on"},{"startTime":804.654,"endTime":808.704,"body":"this, that some of the words and the"},{"startTime":808.704,"endTime":813.054,"body":"terminology and the concepts we have"},{"startTime":808.704,"endTime":813.054,"body":"in singing voice pedagogy, actually"},{"startTime":813.059,"endTime":816.269,"body":"aren't demonstrable through science."},{"startTime":816.879,"endTime":816.999,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":817.179,"endTime":820.239,"body":"Or, um, what was found"},{"startTime":817.179,"endTime":820.239,"body":"was not what we expected."},{"startTime":820.299,"endTime":820.419,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":820.929,"endTime":822.819,"body":"And actually you and I"},{"startTime":820.929,"endTime":822.819,"body":"loved that didn't we?"},{"startTime":822.819,"endTime":823.509,"body":"Oh yeah, absolutely."},{"startTime":823.509,"endTime":823.789,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":823.959,"endTime":827.769,"body":"So you invited five people"},{"startTime":823.959,"endTime":827.769,"body":"to your Round Table."},{"startTime":827.769,"endTime":829.059,"body":"First of all, tell us who they were."},{"startTime":829.329,"endTime":829.779,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":829.839,"endTime":836.514,"body":"Um, my, um, very much loved colleague"},{"startTime":829.839,"endTime":836.514,"body":"in Australia, irene Bartlett Irene,"},{"startTime":836.724,"endTime":841.364,"body":"who is head of the voice pedagogy"},{"startTime":836.724,"endTime":841.364,"body":"programme at Griffith university."},{"startTime":841.434,"endTime":843.314,"body":"Amazing programme, a unique programme."},{"startTime":844.414,"endTime":846.694,"body":"And she beamed in from Australia."},{"startTime":846.754,"endTime":847.084,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":847.084,"endTime":850.344,"body":"Now three people that I put in"},{"startTime":847.084,"endTime":850.344,"body":"the hard science department."},{"startTime":850.374,"endTime":853.704,"body":"Um, Nathalie Henrich"},{"startTime":850.374,"endTime":853.704,"body":"Bernardoni from France."},{"startTime":853.704,"endTime":853.994,"body":"Nathalie."},{"startTime":854.904,"endTime":856.944,"body":"Allan Vurma from Estonia."},{"startTime":856.944,"endTime":857.454,"body":"Allan was there."},{"startTime":857.844,"endTime":858.294,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":858.294,"endTime":862.914,"body":"And Christian Herbst, who"},{"startTime":858.294,"endTime":862.914,"body":"I think is from Austria."},{"startTime":863.364,"endTime":863.844,"body":"Christian."},{"startTime":863.844,"endTime":866.124,"body":"Don't kill me if I got this wrong."},{"startTime":866.129,"endTime":866.814,"body":"Kill her."},{"startTime":868.344,"endTime":868.494,"body":"yeah."},{"startTime":868.499,"endTime":870.114,"body":"Austria or Germany."},{"startTime":870.119,"endTime":870.304,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":871.044,"endTime":876.534,"body":"And, uh, from Germany, we had what we"},{"startTime":871.044,"endTime":876.534,"body":"called our wild card, who was suggested"},{"startTime":876.534,"endTime":881.364,"body":"by Allan to kind of represent if you'd"},{"startTime":876.534,"endTime":881.364,"body":"like the other camp so that we weren't"},{"startTime":881.364,"endTime":886.079,"body":"just, I dunno, preaching from the"},{"startTime":881.364,"endTime":886.079,"body":"table that said we love voice science."},{"startTime":886.149,"endTime":888.189,"body":"In fact, that isn't how"},{"startTime":886.149,"endTime":888.189,"body":"it panned out anyway."},{"startTime":888.609,"endTime":895.029,"body":"But, um, Kirsten Schötteldreier  is"},{"startTime":888.609,"endTime":895.029,"body":"very much, um, she's a, a coach and a, a"},{"startTime":895.029,"endTime":897.339,"body":"singing teacher and a performance coach."},{"startTime":897.669,"endTime":903.339,"body":"She would describe herself as working,"},{"startTime":897.669,"endTime":903.339,"body":"um, transformationally with breath."},{"startTime":903.339,"endTime":906.849,"body":"So transformational breath,"},{"startTime":903.339,"endTime":906.849,"body":"work and energy, energy work."},{"startTime":906.854,"endTime":906.889,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":907.119,"endTime":909.909,"body":"And actually her work is"},{"startTime":907.119,"endTime":909.909,"body":"really super to watch."},{"startTime":909.909,"endTime":915.009,"body":"So I'm not sure if we're able to put a,"},{"startTime":909.909,"endTime":915.009,"body":"a link to her social media or something."},{"startTime":915.009,"endTime":915.739,"body":"We'll find something."},{"startTime":915.829,"endTime":919.679,"body":"Um, I was particularly thrilled"},{"startTime":915.829,"endTime":919.679,"body":"watching Kirsten's masterclass."},{"startTime":919.679,"endTime":923.099,"body":"And in fact, uh, during the Round"},{"startTime":919.679,"endTime":923.099,"body":"Table, she played another video of a"},{"startTime":923.099,"endTime":927.719,"body":"masterclass and it was so lovely for"},{"startTime":923.099,"endTime":927.719,"body":"me because I saw so much of the work"},{"startTime":927.719,"endTime":930.299,"body":"that I do in the work that she does."},{"startTime":930.299,"endTime":933.779,"body":"And that's it's when you see that you"},{"startTime":930.299,"endTime":933.779,"body":"get a validation of what you, what"},{"startTime":933.779,"endTime":937.659,"body":"you do and who you are mm-hmm . Um,"},{"startTime":933.779,"endTime":937.659,"body":"so that was very, I was actually got"},{"startTime":937.679,"endTime":941.609,"body":"quite emotional in the Round Table,"},{"startTime":937.679,"endTime":941.609,"body":"seeing somebody doing very much what"},{"startTime":941.614,"endTime":944.039,"body":"I do, uh, at the level she does it."},{"startTime":944.039,"endTime":944.589,"body":"It was great."},{"startTime":944.929,"endTime":951.069,"body":"So I'm just gonna give, you know, very"},{"startTime":944.929,"endTime":951.069,"body":"broad sweeps of headlines from this, um,"},{"startTime":951.129,"endTime":954.099,"body":"Irene and I share very similar views."},{"startTime":954.099,"endTime":957.919,"body":"I mean, all of us share very similar"},{"startTime":954.099,"endTime":957.919,"body":"views on singing voice pedagogy,"},{"startTime":958.519,"endTime":961.299,"body":"Irene comes from a CCM background."},{"startTime":961.299,"endTime":963.549,"body":"She was a jazz singer for decades."},{"startTime":963.799,"endTime":970.399,"body":"She still performs and she's very,"},{"startTime":963.799,"endTime":970.399,"body":"very keen, uh, like us actually on"},{"startTime":970.399,"endTime":975.229,"body":"voice science and using voice science"},{"startTime":970.399,"endTime":975.229,"body":"to underpin what we do intuitively."},{"startTime":975.769,"endTime":980.983,"body":"Um, so that we, we do it better  it"},{"startTime":975.769,"endTime":980.983,"body":"takes away some of the, the mysterious"},{"startTime":980.983,"endTime":983.653,"body":"aspect that we don't need if you like."},{"startTime":984.103,"endTime":989.248,"body":"And she spoke about a personal thing of"},{"startTime":984.103,"endTime":989.248,"body":"hers, how learning certain aspects of"},{"startTime":989.248,"endTime":993.928,"body":"voice science and clinical understanding"},{"startTime":989.248,"endTime":993.928,"body":"of voice, which like us she's very keen"},{"startTime":993.928,"endTime":999.598,"body":"on mm-hmm had actually allowed her to find"},{"startTime":993.928,"endTime":999.598,"body":"an extra octave in her own singing voice."},{"startTime":999.603,"endTime":999.778,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1001.323,"endTime":1002.843,"body":"That's when it works really well."},{"startTime":1002.943,"endTime":1003.063,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1003.163,"endTime":1003.283,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1003.288,"endTime":1008.583,"body":"And she also, you know, she talked"},{"startTime":1003.288,"endTime":1008.583,"body":"about, um, two paths, one destination."},{"startTime":1008.583,"endTime":1013.773,"body":"We're all going after the same"},{"startTime":1008.583,"endTime":1013.773,"body":"thing, and that was very special."},{"startTime":1013.778,"endTime":1017.613,"body":"And I think the audience really"},{"startTime":1013.778,"endTime":1017.613,"body":"appreciated input from someone who"},{"startTime":1017.613,"endTime":1019.983,"body":"comes from that CCM background."},{"startTime":1020.313,"endTime":1025.773,"body":"And Irene's own doctoral research is"},{"startTime":1020.313,"endTime":1025.773,"body":"entitled one size doesn't fit all."},{"startTime":1025.773,"endTime":1030.858,"body":"And she was looking at gigging,"},{"startTime":1025.773,"endTime":1030.858,"body":"CCM commercial, contemporary"},{"startTime":1030.858,"endTime":1034.818,"body":"commercial music singers, or popular"},{"startTime":1030.858,"endTime":1034.818,"body":"musics singers, if you prefer."},{"startTime":1035.118,"endTime":1039.888,"body":"She was looking at their lives and,"},{"startTime":1035.118,"endTime":1039.888,"body":"and their, their Vocal function."},{"startTime":1040.128,"endTime":1042.438,"body":"I think one of the things that she came"},{"startTime":1040.128,"endTime":1042.438,"body":"up with, which I thought was particularly"},{"startTime":1042.438,"endTime":1046.758,"body":"striking is that she said it's not"},{"startTime":1042.438,"endTime":1046.758,"body":"really possible to reproduce in the voice"},{"startTime":1046.758,"endTime":1052.908,"body":"science lab, the sort of environment"},{"startTime":1046.758,"endTime":1052.908,"body":"that CCM singers are in all the time."},{"startTime":1052.913,"endTime":1056.898,"body":"Mm-hmm . So from that point of view,"},{"startTime":1052.913,"endTime":1056.898,"body":"when you're making measurements, there"},{"startTime":1056.898,"endTime":1059.208,"body":"is an element that you can't introduce."},{"startTime":1059.238,"endTime":1059.418,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1059.688,"endTime":1060.588,"body":"And I think that's fair."},{"startTime":1060.698,"endTime":1061.988,"body":"I thought that was a very good point."},{"startTime":1061.988,"endTime":1065.478,"body":"Mm-hmm  and I think, you know, that's"},{"startTime":1061.988,"endTime":1065.478,"body":"paving the way forward for, uh,"},{"startTime":1065.508,"endTime":1070.758,"body":"different ways of, of doing research,"},{"startTime":1065.508,"endTime":1070.758,"body":"which is one of the reasons why I, um,"},{"startTime":1070.788,"endTime":1072.888,"body":"wanted to hold the Round Table at all."},{"startTime":1073.098,"endTime":1076.428,"body":"That was brilliant that she could just"},{"startTime":1073.098,"endTime":1076.428,"body":"be there while still being in Australia."},{"startTime":1076.488,"endTime":1076.998,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1077.003,"endTime":1077.658,"body":"Fantastic."},{"startTime":1077.658,"endTime":1078.378,"body":"Thank you for that."},{"startTime":1078.378,"endTime":1078.618,"body":"I."},{"startTime":1079.723,"endTime":1085.273,"body":"um, and Nathalie Henrich Bernardoni"},{"startTime":1079.723,"endTime":1085.273,"body":"um, basically gave a testimony."},{"startTime":1085.278,"endTime":1086.413,"body":"That's what she described it."},{"startTime":1086.413,"endTime":1092.033,"body":"It was a lovely first slide saying this"},{"startTime":1086.413,"endTime":1092.033,"body":"is a testimony where she did some work."},{"startTime":1092.033,"endTime":1096.688,"body":"And this is ongoing research"},{"startTime":1092.033,"endTime":1096.688,"body":"with an Italian singing teacher"},{"startTime":1096.693,"endTime":1098.488,"body":"called Antonio di Corcia."},{"startTime":1099.013,"endTime":1103.483,"body":"And, uh, she, this was a report"},{"startTime":1099.013,"endTime":1103.483,"body":"really of work so far that"},{"startTime":1103.483,"endTime":1104.953,"body":"she'd been doing with him."},{"startTime":1104.983,"endTime":1105.043,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1105.433,"endTime":1108.223,"body":"On what he called extreme mixing."},{"startTime":1108.343,"endTime":1109.423,"body":"Standard and extreme."},{"startTime":1109.423,"endTime":1110.623,"body":"Standard and extreme."},{"startTime":1110.653,"endTime":1111.193,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1111.823,"endTime":1115.453,"body":"And, you know, it was a beautiful"},{"startTime":1111.823,"endTime":1115.453,"body":"presentation because what people"},{"startTime":1115.453,"endTime":1121.003,"body":"could see, first of all, in his own"},{"startTime":1115.453,"endTime":1121.003,"body":"demonstrations, he was just on video, um,"},{"startTime":1121.243,"endTime":1127.459,"body":"that he was using sounds that we would"},{"startTime":1121.243,"endTime":1127.459,"body":"all recognize as being mainstream in CCM"},{"startTime":1127.459,"endTime":1134.014,"body":"singing mm-hmm  and then kudos to Nathalie"},{"startTime":1127.459,"endTime":1134.014,"body":"Henrich, she videoed herself, having"},{"startTime":1134.019,"endTime":1140.464,"body":"a lesson with him by zoom, learning,"},{"startTime":1134.019,"endTime":1140.464,"body":"how to make these sounds herself and,"},{"startTime":1140.464,"endTime":1142.904,"body":"and knocking out Midnight from Cats."},{"startTime":1142.904,"endTime":1143.344,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1143.884,"endTime":1147.874,"body":"There was, I mean, there was a"},{"startTime":1143.884,"endTime":1147.874,"body":"palpable atmosphere I felt in the room."},{"startTime":1147.874,"endTime":1151.834,"body":"I dunno what you felt, Jeremy,"},{"startTime":1147.874,"endTime":1151.834,"body":"at that point, when he gave her a"},{"startTime":1151.839,"endTime":1156.184,"body":"particular instruction to change"},{"startTime":1151.839,"endTime":1156.184,"body":"her sound and I could see people"},{"startTime":1156.184,"endTime":1158.134,"body":"going, yeah, that's what we do."},{"startTime":1158.254,"endTime":1161.524,"body":"Thank God at last,"},{"startTime":1158.254,"endTime":1161.524,"body":"somebody is looking at it."},{"startTime":1161.529,"endTime":1161.844,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1161.844,"endTime":1162.164,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1162.184,"endTime":1165.754,"body":"And it was so interesting because,"},{"startTime":1162.184,"endTime":1165.754,"body":"um, the way that we mapped it,"},{"startTime":1165.754,"endTime":1172.059,"body":"listening to it, she was doing, um,"},{"startTime":1165.754,"endTime":1172.059,"body":"uh, touch me on an M1 mm-hmm and he"},{"startTime":1172.059,"endTime":1176.619,"body":"was doing it at the same octave on"},{"startTime":1172.059,"endTime":1176.619,"body":"an M2, but the sound was so similar."},{"startTime":1176.619,"endTime":1176.769,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1176.769,"endTime":1177.849,"body":"It was very good modeling."},{"startTime":1177.849,"endTime":1180.199,"body":"It was a nicely adducted M2."},{"startTime":1180.224,"endTime":1180.519,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1180.579,"endTime":1182.319,"body":"But you know, more on that later."},{"startTime":1182.349,"endTime":1182.439,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1182.439,"endTime":1185.889,"body":"Because Nathalie is really,"},{"startTime":1182.439,"endTime":1185.889,"body":"really digging into this."},{"startTime":1186.309,"endTime":1190.929,"body":"And, um, I think there's going to"},{"startTime":1186.309,"endTime":1190.929,"body":"be some very fascinating information"},{"startTime":1191.469,"endTime":1197.559,"body":"about mechanisms 1 and 2 that come out"},{"startTime":1191.469,"endTime":1197.559,"body":"of that, that frankly is much needed."},{"startTime":1197.559,"endTime":1198.279,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1198.279,"endTime":1198.28,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1198.724,"endTime":1202.804,"body":"And, um, and kudos to Nathalie for,"},{"startTime":1198.724,"endTime":1202.804,"body":"for not just putting herself through"},{"startTime":1203.404,"endTime":1205.754,"body":"a singing lesson so that she can"},{"startTime":1203.404,"endTime":1205.754,"body":"find out how to make the sounds"},{"startTime":1205.774,"endTime":1209.104,"body":"herself, yeah, but for videoing it"},{"startTime":1205.774,"endTime":1209.104,"body":"and including it in the presentation."},{"startTime":1209.284,"endTime":1209.674,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1209.674,"endTime":1212.794,"body":"And something that I thought"},{"startTime":1209.674,"endTime":1212.794,"body":"was particularly beautiful"},{"startTime":1212.794,"endTime":1213.854,"body":"was that she talked about."},{"startTime":1214.999,"endTime":1220.939,"body":"In order to understand each other, we need"},{"startTime":1214.999,"endTime":1220.939,"body":"to meet each other in each other's worlds."},{"startTime":1220.939,"endTime":1221.029,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1221.059,"endTime":1224.629,"body":"I don't think I've worded it quite"},{"startTime":1221.059,"endTime":1224.629,"body":"right, but, but no it's accurate."},{"startTime":1224.749,"endTime":1224.899,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1224.899,"endTime":1228.529,"body":"And I think what's so interesting"},{"startTime":1224.899,"endTime":1228.529,"body":"is that you can step into"},{"startTime":1228.529,"endTime":1229.639,"body":"the other person's world."},{"startTime":1229.639,"endTime":1233.599,"body":"You can't necessarily learn it in"},{"startTime":1229.639,"endTime":1233.599,"body":"the depth that they have it, but you"},{"startTime":1233.599,"endTime":1237.049,"body":"can step into that world and start to"},{"startTime":1233.599,"endTime":1237.049,"body":"understand where they're coming from."},{"startTime":1237.869,"endTime":1241.769,"body":"I mean, I would say for researchers, if"},{"startTime":1237.869,"endTime":1241.769,"body":"you're going to look at something like"},{"startTime":1241.769,"endTime":1246.179,"body":"that, that feels very much beyond your"},{"startTime":1241.769,"endTime":1246.179,"body":"normal experience and, and maybe beyond"},{"startTime":1246.179,"endTime":1253.289,"body":"the, the existing corpus of research"},{"startTime":1246.179,"endTime":1253.289,"body":"info, you've gotta step into that world."},{"startTime":1253.589,"endTime":1258.629,"body":"And you singing teachers, you've got to"},{"startTime":1253.589,"endTime":1258.629,"body":"step into the voice science world as well."},{"startTime":1258.929,"endTime":1263.059,"body":"And to, to do it without fear"},{"startTime":1258.929,"endTime":1263.059,"body":"and have the conversation."},{"startTime":1264.334,"endTime":1267.304,"body":"Which is actually what this"},{"startTime":1264.334,"endTime":1267.304,"body":"whole Round Table was about."},{"startTime":1267.304,"endTime":1267.644,"body":"It really was."},{"startTime":1267.644,"endTime":1271.054,"body":"Let's have the conversation, you know,"},{"startTime":1267.644,"endTime":1271.054,"body":"me, I like to start conversations."},{"startTime":1271.204,"endTime":1271.324,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1271.594,"endTime":1275.174,"body":"So, and then we had Christian Herbst."},{"startTime":1275.194,"endTime":1275.674,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1276.214,"endTime":1276.754,"body":"Oh gosh."},{"startTime":1276.754,"endTime":1283.894,"body":"What can I say about, I mean, I, I"},{"startTime":1276.754,"endTime":1283.894,"body":"loved the slide that Christian quoted,"},{"startTime":1283.984,"endTime":1288.174,"body":"which was, we're seeking the truth."},{"startTime":1288.864,"endTime":1288.984,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1289.164,"endTime":1290.604,"body":"When you found the truth."},{"startTime":1291.879,"endTime":1295.119,"body":"You need to turn away, you"},{"startTime":1291.879,"endTime":1295.119,"body":"need to turn and run away."},{"startTime":1295.119,"endTime":1298.659,"body":"There's a, it's a famous"},{"startTime":1295.119,"endTime":1298.659,"body":"quote, actually, Jean Piaget I"},{"startTime":1298.659,"endTime":1300.009,"body":"think, or something like that."},{"startTime":1300.129,"endTime":1300.219,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1300.224,"endTime":1300.419,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1300.609,"endTime":1302.469,"body":"And I do think that's important."},{"startTime":1302.559,"endTime":1306.399,"body":"And in a way, for me, this"},{"startTime":1302.559,"endTime":1306.399,"body":"is more about a message to.."},{"startTime":1307.344,"endTime":1310.104,"body":"To the singing pedagogues"},{"startTime":1307.344,"endTime":1310.104,"body":"than the voice scientists."},{"startTime":1310.104,"endTime":1314.994,"body":"Because voice scientists understand"},{"startTime":1310.104,"endTime":1314.994,"body":"that every research finding is in"},{"startTime":1314.994,"endTime":1318.774,"body":"within a particular framework and"},{"startTime":1314.994,"endTime":1318.774,"body":"there are boundaries to that framework."},{"startTime":1319.254,"endTime":1322.914,"body":"Whereas what happens with, sometimes"},{"startTime":1319.254,"endTime":1322.914,"body":"I think the singing pedagogues"},{"startTime":1322.919,"endTime":1324.484,"body":"is we get a little bit credulous."},{"startTime":1324.509,"endTime":1326.604,"body":"We see this wonderful bit of information."},{"startTime":1327.061,"endTime":1329.221,"body":"like we said in the first episode."},{"startTime":1329.221,"endTime":1333.121,"body":"Mm-hmm  oh, now have we all got"},{"startTime":1329.221,"endTime":1333.121,"body":"to open our nose in or in order to"},{"startTime":1333.151,"endTime":1335.701,"body":"avoid having, uh, gear change breaks?"},{"startTime":1335.731,"endTime":1335.881,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1336.241,"endTime":1337.441,"body":"No, not necessarily."},{"startTime":1337.446,"endTime":1337.741,"body":"No."},{"startTime":1338.371,"endTime":1342.811,"body":"A research finding doesn't"},{"startTime":1338.371,"endTime":1342.811,"body":"necessarily translate yet into a"},{"startTime":1342.811,"endTime":1347.011,"body":"deterministic outcome of something"},{"startTime":1342.811,"endTime":1347.011,"body":"you should be doing in your lesson."},{"startTime":1347.041,"endTime":1348.421,"body":"But let's take that one stage further."},{"startTime":1348.421,"endTime":1350.161,"body":"It's for information."},{"startTime":1350.281,"endTime":1352.441,"body":"Let's take that one stage further."},{"startTime":1352.501,"endTime":1357.516,"body":"If you go to watch a masterclass"},{"startTime":1352.501,"endTime":1357.516,"body":"of somebody coaching singers and"},{"startTime":1357.516,"endTime":1360.456,"body":"they're coaching singers in the same"},{"startTime":1357.516,"endTime":1360.456,"body":"type of repertoire that you sing."},{"startTime":1360.456,"endTime":1365.376,"body":"Mm-hmm,  just because they say to that"},{"startTime":1360.456,"endTime":1365.376,"body":"one person on the stage, I want you to"},{"startTime":1366.006,"endTime":1371.736,"body":"take a step forwards or whatever it is,"},{"startTime":1366.006,"endTime":1371.736,"body":"does not mean that that is now the rule."},{"startTime":1371.741,"endTime":1374.916,"body":"That every time you sing that song"},{"startTime":1371.741,"endTime":1374.916,"body":"and that particular phrase, you"},{"startTime":1374.916,"endTime":1376.326,"body":"need to take one step forwards."},{"startTime":1376.566,"endTime":1379.056,"body":"It doesn't, it doesn't work like that."},{"startTime":1379.356,"endTime":1382.896,"body":"This is, we are very, very keen on"},{"startTime":1379.356,"endTime":1382.896,"body":"working with the singer in the room."},{"startTime":1382.896,"endTime":1384.856,"body":"And that means working with"},{"startTime":1382.896,"endTime":1384.856,"body":"the person in front of you."},{"startTime":1385.656,"endTime":1389.491,"body":"And everybody, when they perform,"},{"startTime":1385.656,"endTime":1389.491,"body":"everybody, when they sing brings their"},{"startTime":1389.491,"endTime":1393.901,"body":"own history, their own skills, their own"},{"startTime":1389.491,"endTime":1393.901,"body":"levels, their own understanding, their"},{"startTime":1393.901,"endTime":1396.721,"body":"own soul that needs to be expressed."},{"startTime":1396.721,"endTime":1399.091,"body":"And you can't do that in the same way."},{"startTime":1399.391,"endTime":1404.221,"body":"So I wanna say to all the singing teachers"},{"startTime":1399.391,"endTime":1404.221,"body":"and the singers out there, uh, do not"},{"startTime":1404.221,"endTime":1408.541,"body":"assume that when you see something that"},{"startTime":1404.221,"endTime":1408.541,"body":"works really well, that it applies to you."},{"startTime":1409.201,"endTime":1410.191,"body":"Cause it may not."},{"startTime":1410.401,"endTime":1414.706,"body":"And this is where your own personal"},{"startTime":1410.401,"endTime":1414.706,"body":"understanding in your own personal"},{"startTime":1414.826,"endTime":1417.976,"body":"taste and your own awareness comes in."},{"startTime":1418.186,"endTime":1421.636,"body":"You have to try it on yourself and go,"},{"startTime":1418.186,"endTime":1421.636,"body":"does that actually work for me or not?"},{"startTime":1421.696,"endTime":1421.996,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1422.146,"endTime":1425.896,"body":"And I think what I'd like to say about"},{"startTime":1422.146,"endTime":1425.896,"body":"Christian is that, I mean, not only"},{"startTime":1425.901,"endTime":1430.876,"body":"has he taught, um, you know, 5,000"},{"startTime":1425.901,"endTime":1430.876,"body":"hours of teaching, he said he'd done"},{"startTime":1431.186,"endTime":1433.916,"body":"in an earlier life, and he also sings."},{"startTime":1434.043,"endTime":1439.203,"body":"And clearly you've heard that Nathalie"},{"startTime":1434.043,"endTime":1439.203,"body":"also sings, but that, um, he's kind"},{"startTime":1439.203,"endTime":1443.583,"body":"of able to understand this from the"},{"startTime":1439.203,"endTime":1443.583,"body":"inside out and to understand that"},{"startTime":1443.583,"endTime":1445.923,"body":"it's actually a very complex activity."},{"startTime":1446.343,"endTime":1450.123,"body":"And, um, I can't talk you"},{"startTime":1446.343,"endTime":1450.123,"body":"through, you know, a, a rather"},{"startTime":1450.123,"endTime":1451.593,"body":"wonderful slide that he shared."},{"startTime":1451.993,"endTime":1452.843,"body":"It's so dense."},{"startTime":1453.123,"endTime":1457.113,"body":"I can give you some headings, which"},{"startTime":1453.123,"endTime":1457.113,"body":"is we're dealing as performers"},{"startTime":1457.118,"endTime":1459.423,"body":"with emotion and artistic intent."},{"startTime":1460.798,"endTime":1465.148,"body":"And what we need is to kind of look"},{"startTime":1460.798,"endTime":1465.148,"body":"at what we, we call a high level, but"},{"startTime":1465.148,"endTime":1468.568,"body":"also holistic pedagogical intervention."},{"startTime":1468.568,"endTime":1471.418,"body":"We do interventions, that's"},{"startTime":1468.568,"endTime":1471.418,"body":"the word we sometimes use."},{"startTime":1472.018,"endTime":1476.908,"body":"Um, because what we're dealing with is"},{"startTime":1472.018,"endTime":1476.908,"body":"some kind of targeted sound production."},{"startTime":1476.908,"endTime":1481.948,"body":"You know, we, as teachers, we're dealing"},{"startTime":1476.908,"endTime":1481.948,"body":"with the outcome, we need the knowledge"},{"startTime":1481.948,"endTime":1484.348,"body":"to know what that intervention might be."},{"startTime":1484.353,"endTime":1484.688,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1484.758,"endTime":1486.448,"body":"What can we, and holistic is good."},{"startTime":1486.448,"endTime":1491.253,"body":"What can we say to the singer that"},{"startTime":1486.448,"endTime":1491.253,"body":"will enable them to get to the"},{"startTime":1491.253,"endTime":1495.933,"body":"sound, the, feel, the emotion,"},{"startTime":1491.253,"endTime":1495.933,"body":"the expression that they want?"},{"startTime":1497.013,"endTime":1499.563,"body":"And I think there was something"},{"startTime":1497.013,"endTime":1499.563,"body":"that struck me very much"},{"startTime":1499.563,"endTime":1500.493,"body":"about what Christian said."},{"startTime":1500.823,"endTime":1504.393,"body":"And he said, he talked about this,"},{"startTime":1500.823,"endTime":1504.393,"body":"um, first level, which is high level"},{"startTime":1504.398,"endTime":1507.693,"body":"holistic pedagogical intervention"},{"startTime":1504.398,"endTime":1507.693,"body":"mm-hmm , which is basically what"},{"startTime":1507.693,"endTime":1511.023,"body":"instructions can the singing teacher give"},{"startTime":1507.693,"endTime":1511.023,"body":"to the singer to get 'em to the place"},{"startTime":1511.023,"endTime":1514.653,"body":"the singer wants to be mm-hmm  and he"},{"startTime":1511.023,"endTime":1514.653,"body":"said, if that works, we can stop there."},{"startTime":1514.933,"endTime":1516.073,"body":"Yes, he did, I remember."},{"startTime":1516.193,"endTime":1516.603,"body":"That's it."},{"startTime":1516.623,"endTime":1517.358,"body":"That's all we need."},{"startTime":1517.658,"endTime":1521.258,"body":"It's when that doesn't work, um,"},{"startTime":1517.658,"endTime":1521.258,"body":"and you've tried different, more"},{"startTime":1521.378,"endTime":1523.988,"body":"forms of communication, but you"},{"startTime":1521.378,"endTime":1523.988,"body":"still can't get the singer there."},{"startTime":1524.468,"endTime":1527.828,"body":"That's when the voice science really"},{"startTime":1524.468,"endTime":1527.828,"body":"comes in and goes, okay, what's happening?"},{"startTime":1527.858,"endTime":1529.748,"body":"Mm-hmm  what is it that you need to do?"},{"startTime":1529.748,"endTime":1532.118,"body":"What is it that we think we have to do?"},{"startTime":1532.328,"endTime":1533.588,"body":"What's the target?"},{"startTime":1533.858,"endTime":1536.168,"body":"Can we now analyze what's going on?"},{"startTime":1536.258,"endTime":1539.558,"body":"And then come up with some different"},{"startTime":1536.258,"endTime":1539.558,"body":"things that are gonna work."},{"startTime":1539.718,"endTime":1543.783,"body":"And that underpins very much our"},{"startTime":1539.718,"endTime":1543.783,"body":"approach and Irene's approach."},{"startTime":1543.883,"endTime":1544.723,"body":"Very much."},{"startTime":1545.083,"endTime":1548.803,"body":"I mean, this is the thing for me"},{"startTime":1545.083,"endTime":1548.803,"body":"and it's possibly, because you know,"},{"startTime":1548.803,"endTime":1549.943,"body":"Gillyanne is a singing teacher."},{"startTime":1549.943,"endTime":1550.753,"body":"I'm a voice coach."},{"startTime":1550.753,"endTime":1554.263,"body":"So we all already, we come"},{"startTime":1550.753,"endTime":1554.263,"body":"from two slightly different"},{"startTime":1554.268,"endTime":1558.913,"body":"backgrounds and understandings of"},{"startTime":1554.268,"endTime":1558.913,"body":"how voice and performance works."},{"startTime":1559.153,"endTime":1564.773,"body":"So when you then bring a third person in"},{"startTime":1559.153,"endTime":1564.773,"body":"who is voice science based, all three of"},{"startTime":1564.773,"endTime":1570.563,"body":"us have skills and levels of understanding"},{"startTime":1564.773,"endTime":1570.563,"body":"that the other doesn't and you bring"},{"startTime":1570.563,"endTime":1574.153,"body":"those all three of those together and"},{"startTime":1570.563,"endTime":1574.153,"body":"you've got something very powerful."},{"startTime":1574.703,"endTime":1580.448,"body":"Mm-hmm . So,  I'm gonna talk a little"},{"startTime":1574.703,"endTime":1580.448,"body":"bit about our wild card Kirsten."},{"startTime":1580.448,"endTime":1582.368,"body":"Thank you for being our wild card."},{"startTime":1582.368,"endTime":1582.488,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1582.848,"endTime":1587.868,"body":"And also if you get to listen to this,"},{"startTime":1582.848,"endTime":1587.868,"body":"thank you for the many fascinating"},{"startTime":1587.868,"endTime":1590.598,"body":"conversations that we had about the voice."},{"startTime":1591.438,"endTime":1591.978,"body":"Kirsten."},{"startTime":1591.983,"endTime":1597.588,"body":"I think very sensibly, uh, just after"},{"startTime":1591.983,"endTime":1597.588,"body":"a couple of moments introduction played"},{"startTime":1597.588,"endTime":1602.988,"body":"for us a video that she'd got, which,"},{"startTime":1597.588,"endTime":1602.988,"body":"uh, showed how she works with singers,"},{"startTime":1603.558,"endTime":1608.508,"body":"how she works with the orchestra"},{"startTime":1603.558,"endTime":1608.508,"body":"and how she works with the audience."},{"startTime":1608.898,"endTime":1612.738,"body":"And it was very clear from the way"},{"startTime":1608.898,"endTime":1612.738,"body":"that she worked, that it was about"},{"startTime":1612.738,"endTime":1618.888,"body":"energy, about individual energy, about"},{"startTime":1612.738,"endTime":1618.888,"body":"the energy between the singer and"},{"startTime":1618.888,"endTime":1621.078,"body":"whoever is collaborating with them."},{"startTime":1621.468,"endTime":1627.253,"body":"And about the energy between the"},{"startTime":1621.468,"endTime":1627.253,"body":"performers on stage and the audience."},{"startTime":1627.313,"endTime":1628.573,"body":"And that was a really,"},{"startTime":1628.573,"endTime":1629.824,"body":"You said you nearly cried?"},{"startTime":1629.888,"endTime":1630.813,"body":"No, I didn't nearly cry."},{"startTime":1630.843,"endTime":1632.133,"body":"I actually did cry."},{"startTime":1632.403,"endTime":1632.613,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":1632.673,"endTime":1636.813,"body":"It is very unusual for me to"},{"startTime":1632.673,"endTime":1636.813,"body":"be that moved by something that"},{"startTime":1636.818,"endTime":1638.523,"body":"I see, um, just on a video."},{"startTime":1638.913,"endTime":1643.083,"body":"And it was because she works with"},{"startTime":1638.913,"endTime":1643.083,"body":"energy in the same way that I do."},{"startTime":1643.803,"endTime":1646.383,"body":"Um, and honestly it."},{"startTime":1647.103,"endTime":1651.123,"body":"Because we'd seen her already work"},{"startTime":1647.103,"endTime":1651.123,"body":"with, uh, 4 singers in a masterclass."},{"startTime":1651.123,"endTime":1655.803,"body":"And that was really fascinating"},{"startTime":1651.123,"endTime":1655.803,"body":"watching the goals that she was"},{"startTime":1655.808,"endTime":1658.143,"body":"getting to in the way that she"},{"startTime":1655.808,"endTime":1658.143,"body":"was getting people to do them."},{"startTime":1658.863,"endTime":1663.273,"body":"And one of the big things, if you like in,"},{"startTime":1658.863,"endTime":1663.273,"body":"when I was listening and I was analyzing"},{"startTime":1663.273,"endTime":1671.258,"body":"what was going on, she is very acute"},{"startTime":1663.273,"endTime":1671.258,"body":"on imbalance so that somebody would be"},{"startTime":1671.258,"endTime":1673.478,"body":"singing and it was all classical Arias."},{"startTime":1674.048,"endTime":1679.458,"body":"Somebody would be singing, um,"},{"startTime":1674.048,"endTime":1679.458,"body":"Ach ich Fuhl's from Mozart's"},{"startTime":1679.458,"endTime":1682.428,"body":"Die Zauberflöte, Pamina's aria."},{"startTime":1682.428,"endTime":1682.438,"body":"And."},{"startTime":1682.863,"endTime":1684.633,"body":"But working her voice too hard."},{"startTime":1685.443,"endTime":1690.543,"body":"And so, um, Kristen went a very"},{"startTime":1685.443,"endTime":1690.543,"body":"interesting and unusual way to get her"},{"startTime":1690.543,"endTime":1694.323,"body":"to rebalance what she was doing and"},{"startTime":1690.543,"endTime":1694.323,"body":"it worked and it was so much better."},{"startTime":1694.953,"endTime":1698.373,"body":"And it was, this was really interesting"},{"startTime":1694.953,"endTime":1698.373,"body":"cuz we'd seen her work with singers, but"},{"startTime":1698.373,"endTime":1703.058,"body":"in that video, in your Round Table, mm-hmm"},{"startTime":1698.373,"endTime":1703.058,"body":"we saw her work with the orchestra mm-hmm"},{"startTime":1703.058,"endTime":1705.793,"body":"to get them in balance with the singer."},{"startTime":1705.943,"endTime":1709.663,"body":"And then she worked with the"},{"startTime":1705.943,"endTime":1709.663,"body":"audience and I just went dream job."},{"startTime":1709.753,"endTime":1711.913,"body":"Mm-hmm  I would love to do that."},{"startTime":1712.723,"endTime":1716.563,"body":"There was a very strong response"},{"startTime":1712.723,"endTime":1716.563,"body":"from the audience to that, and"},{"startTime":1716.563,"endTime":1718.303,"body":"we do need that side of things."},{"startTime":1718.308,"endTime":1722.803,"body":"And, you know, lots of us are using"},{"startTime":1718.308,"endTime":1722.803,"body":"things where, you know, we, we move"},{"startTime":1722.953,"endTime":1725.483,"body":"our arms around, we do physical things."},{"startTime":1725.483,"endTime":1727.198,"body":"We have Front foot and back foot."},{"startTime":1727.198,"endTime":1729.268,"body":"Lots of people use circles."},{"startTime":1729.538,"endTime":1734.848,"body":"Um, Kirsten uses balls a lot to"},{"startTime":1729.538,"endTime":1734.848,"body":"find energy and do coordination and"},{"startTime":1734.848,"endTime":1736.918,"body":"everything to do with breathing."},{"startTime":1736.918,"endTime":1738.838,"body":"She and I had a conversation about this."},{"startTime":1739.108,"endTime":1741.508,"body":"Everything to do with"},{"startTime":1739.108,"endTime":1741.508,"body":"breathing and music is rhythm."},{"startTime":1741.698,"endTime":1742.248,"body":"Oh, yes."},{"startTime":1742.908,"endTime":1744.808,"body":"So, um, absolutely."},{"startTime":1744.808,"endTime":1745.048,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1745.048,"endTime":1748.158,"body":"And so it was wonderful to have that"},{"startTime":1745.048,"endTime":1748.158,"body":"and, you know, kudos to Kirsten for"},{"startTime":1748.158,"endTime":1752.938,"body":"sitting there, listening to these"},{"startTime":1748.158,"endTime":1752.938,"body":"more kind of pedagogical, you know,"},{"startTime":1752.938,"endTime":1759.388,"body":"discussions and then kind of more up from"},{"startTime":1752.938,"endTime":1759.388,"body":"the hard science side and going, yeah."},{"startTime":1759.388,"endTime":1761.803,"body":"But I have something to contribute here."},{"startTime":1761.833,"endTime":1765.343,"body":"I think actually she loved,"},{"startTime":1761.833,"endTime":1765.343,"body":"Christian's a very complicated slide."},{"startTime":1765.343,"endTime":1765.793,"body":"Didn't she?"},{"startTime":1765.798,"endTime":1766.153,"body":"She did."},{"startTime":1766.153,"endTime":1766.543,"body":"She did."},{"startTime":1766.543,"endTime":1767.473,"body":"She was taking pictures of it."},{"startTime":1767.803,"endTime":1772.933,"body":"I thought she had a very difficult job"},{"startTime":1767.803,"endTime":1772.933,"body":"because essentially she was in a room full"},{"startTime":1772.933,"endTime":1774.793,"body":"of people going we love voice science."},{"startTime":1775.243,"endTime":1777.193,"body":"And she doesn't really use it."},{"startTime":1777.283,"endTime":1780.343,"body":"Or if she does, she doesn't use it in"},{"startTime":1777.283,"endTime":1780.343,"body":"the same with everybody else in the room"},{"startTime":1780.343,"endTime":1785.143,"body":"did, and I was watching her, listening"},{"startTime":1780.343,"endTime":1785.143,"body":"to the other people talking and I'm"},{"startTime":1785.143,"endTime":1787.603,"body":"thinking she's, she's having a tough time."},{"startTime":1788.093,"endTime":1791.933,"body":"Um, listening to, to all of the, sort"},{"startTime":1788.093,"endTime":1791.933,"body":"of the, yeah, this is amazing thing."},{"startTime":1792.023,"endTime":1795.533,"body":"And when she stood up, I thought,"},{"startTime":1792.023,"endTime":1795.533,"body":"how is she going to tackle this?"},{"startTime":1795.773,"endTime":1799.89,"body":"She did such a good job of"},{"startTime":1795.773,"endTime":1799.89,"body":"including everything and stating"},{"startTime":1800.01,"endTime":1801.27,"body":"that there is something else there."},{"startTime":1801.68,"endTime":1802.49,"body":"Hmm, love that."},{"startTime":1802.58,"endTime":1805.46,"body":"And, you know, I think I, this"},{"startTime":1802.58,"endTime":1805.46,"body":"is a little bit of kudos to me."},{"startTime":1805.46,"endTime":1810.62,"body":"I think one of the reasons why this"},{"startTime":1805.46,"endTime":1810.62,"body":"worked is that, um, I spent a lot of"},{"startTime":1810.62,"endTime":1815.6,"body":"time generating questions, sending"},{"startTime":1810.62,"endTime":1815.6,"body":"out ideas, asking people if they"},{"startTime":1815.6,"endTime":1819.38,"body":"would send their presentations in"},{"startTime":1815.6,"endTime":1819.38,"body":"advance so we could all see them."},{"startTime":1819.65,"endTime":1824.45,"body":"And we also all met the day before"},{"startTime":1819.65,"endTime":1824.45,"body":"the conference and Irene beamed in"},{"startTime":1824.45,"endTime":1826.88,"body":"remotely, you know, from Brisbane and."},{"startTime":1827.32,"endTime":1830.8,"body":"I knew it needed to be an"},{"startTime":1827.32,"endTime":1830.8,"body":"energetic exchange as well."},{"startTime":1830.8,"endTime":1835.167,"body":"It needed to be a meeting of minds"},{"startTime":1830.8,"endTime":1835.167,"body":"and that it wasn't gonna be enough"},{"startTime":1835.172,"endTime":1838.107,"body":"that we were just all gonna go up"},{"startTime":1835.172,"endTime":1838.107,"body":"there and present our paper and do our"},{"startTime":1838.112,"endTime":1843.717,"body":"expertise because we wouldn't be able"},{"startTime":1838.112,"endTime":1843.717,"body":"to really get the conversation going."},{"startTime":1843.717,"endTime":1845.637,"body":"And I felt very strongly about this."},{"startTime":1846.567,"endTime":1849.207,"body":"And actually we've had, well"},{"startTime":1846.567,"endTime":1849.207,"body":"you cuz I wasn't involved."},{"startTime":1849.537,"endTime":1852.267,"body":"You've had some phenomenal"},{"startTime":1849.537,"endTime":1852.267,"body":"feedback and you've had some great"},{"startTime":1852.267,"endTime":1853.867,"body":"feedback from the other speakers."},{"startTime":1853.892,"endTime":1857.522,"body":"All of whom have said, this must be"},{"startTime":1853.892,"endTime":1857.522,"body":"written up mm-hmm  you must write"},{"startTime":1857.522,"endTime":1858.722,"body":"this up because this is important."},{"startTime":1858.852,"endTime":1859.202,"body":"Mm."},{"startTime":1859.382,"endTime":1863.792,"body":"And now we mustn't forget the final,"},{"startTime":1859.382,"endTime":1863.792,"body":"um, discussant in, in the panel,"},{"startTime":1863.792,"endTime":1865.952,"body":"which was Allan Vurma himself."},{"startTime":1865.957,"endTime":1866.042,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1866.042,"endTime":1866.362,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1866.762,"endTime":1871.772,"body":"Um, and I think inspired by some"},{"startTime":1866.762,"endTime":1871.772,"body":"of the stuff he'd heard us saying"},{"startTime":1871.777,"endTime":1873.452,"body":"about our personal journeys."},{"startTime":1873.932,"endTime":1879.225,"body":"Um, Allan shared a bit more about"},{"startTime":1873.932,"endTime":1879.225,"body":"his dual lives as, uh, an engineer"},{"startTime":1879.975,"endTime":1884.105,"body":"and, a singer and, and talked about,"},{"startTime":1879.975,"endTime":1884.105,"body":"this is quite interesting about the"},{"startTime":1884.11,"endTime":1890.465,"body":"difficulties of being raised when"},{"startTime":1884.11,"endTime":1890.465,"body":"Estonia was under Russian occupation, I"},{"startTime":1890.465,"endTime":1896.825,"body":"suppose, or part, part of the USSR and"},{"startTime":1890.465,"endTime":1896.825,"body":"being very difficult to get hold of any"},{"startTime":1897.095,"endTime":1899.795,"body":"pedagogical books that weren't Russian."},{"startTime":1900.575,"endTime":1903.97,"body":"And he had an opportunity"},{"startTime":1900.575,"endTime":1903.97,"body":"to come to London."},{"startTime":1903.97,"endTime":1908.14,"body":"I think perhaps when he was working"},{"startTime":1903.97,"endTime":1908.14,"body":"as a choir singer and he said, he'd"},{"startTime":1908.14,"endTime":1913.3,"body":"spent almost a month's wages on Johan"},{"startTime":1908.14,"endTime":1913.3,"body":"Sundberg's Science of the Singing"},{"startTime":1913.3,"endTime":1916.39,"body":"Voice, because it was so fascinating."},{"startTime":1916.39,"endTime":1919.87,"body":"And I think that was another one of the"},{"startTime":1916.39,"endTime":1919.87,"body":"things that kickstarted Allan's journey."},{"startTime":1919.96,"endTime":1919.99,"body":"Mm."},{"startTime":1921.565,"endTime":1924.985,"body":"He had a couple of things that I thought"},{"startTime":1921.565,"endTime":1924.985,"body":"were very important, which was to say,"},{"startTime":1925.105,"endTime":1929.945,"body":"you know, when we're looking at science,"},{"startTime":1925.105,"endTime":1929.945,"body":"we're only looking at models and, and"},{"startTime":1929.945,"endTime":1934.175,"body":"that humans, all humans make models"},{"startTime":1929.945,"endTime":1934.175,"body":"of our world so that we can survive."},{"startTime":1934.18,"endTime":1934.445,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1934.835,"endTime":1939.695,"body":"Because there's so much input, and that"},{"startTime":1934.835,"endTime":1939.695,"body":"we need to understand that in science,"},{"startTime":1939.695,"endTime":1944.495,"body":"we're working with models and that, that"},{"startTime":1939.695,"endTime":1944.495,"body":"it doesn't represent the whole experience."},{"startTime":1945.25,"endTime":1947.21,"body":"Mm,  this is an ongoing theme."},{"startTime":1947.63,"endTime":1950.903,"body":"And I think again, there was another"},{"startTime":1947.63,"endTime":1950.903,"body":"like, you know, bit of a sigh in the"},{"startTime":1950.903,"endTime":1953.143,"body":"audience saying, yes, this is true."},{"startTime":1953.173,"endTime":1953.263,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1953.773,"endTime":1958.663,"body":"Um, and I, I really liked that"},{"startTime":1953.773,"endTime":1958.663,"body":"he reiterated that and he also"},{"startTime":1958.663,"endTime":1963.403,"body":"talked about, should we be using"},{"startTime":1958.663,"endTime":1963.403,"body":"voice science in our teaching?"},{"startTime":1963.853,"endTime":1966.373,"body":"It's not so much should, but when."},{"startTime":1967.048,"endTime":1967.978,"body":"And how."},{"startTime":1968.008,"endTime":1969.328,"body":"Yep, totally with that."},{"startTime":1969.328,"endTime":1969.868,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1969.928,"endTime":1971.998,"body":"So great, great question."},{"startTime":1972.003,"endTime":1972.908,"body":"Totally with that."},{"startTime":1972.958,"endTime":1976.108,"body":"And there was something that"},{"startTime":1972.958,"endTime":1976.108,"body":"he said towards the end."},{"startTime":1976.648,"endTime":1979.288,"body":"First of all, he said, sometimes"},{"startTime":1976.648,"endTime":1979.288,"body":"even scientific models are wrong."},{"startTime":1980.078,"endTime":1981.838,"body":"Hurray, we know this."},{"startTime":1981.928,"endTime":1986.158,"body":"Mm-hmm  and the singer and or voice"},{"startTime":1981.928,"endTime":1986.158,"body":"teacher cannot trust science 100%."},{"startTime":1986.278,"endTime":1987.628,"body":"We also know this."},{"startTime":1987.658,"endTime":1987.808,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1988.168,"endTime":1990.628,"body":"Uh, there was something that I came"},{"startTime":1988.168,"endTime":1990.628,"body":"up with and I actually wrote it down"},{"startTime":1990.628,"endTime":1994.858,"body":"almost on the first day of the, the"},{"startTime":1990.628,"endTime":1994.858,"body":"divide between the singer and the voice."},{"startTime":1995.638,"endTime":1998.638,"body":"Uh, the sing, the singer voice"},{"startTime":1995.638,"endTime":1998.638,"body":"teacher and the voice scientist."},{"startTime":1998.878,"endTime":1998.908,"body":"Mm."},{"startTime":1999.178,"endTime":2002.538,"body":"Uh, and then we were talking"},{"startTime":1999.178,"endTime":2002.538,"body":"about what to believe if you like."},{"startTime":2003.048,"endTime":2007.668,"body":"And I wanted to say to the voice"},{"startTime":2003.048,"endTime":2007.668,"body":"scientists acknowledge the experience"},{"startTime":2007.668,"endTime":2011.418,"body":"of the singing teacher, but don't"},{"startTime":2007.668,"endTime":2011.418,"body":"listen to the language they use."},{"startTime":2012.678,"endTime":2013.938,"body":"Don't take it on trust."},{"startTime":2014.628,"endTime":2016.968,"body":"And then, because they, they can do it."},{"startTime":2016.968,"endTime":2020.792,"body":"They understand it, but they don't"},{"startTime":2016.968,"endTime":2020.792,"body":"necessarily describe it in concrete terms."},{"startTime":2021.542,"endTime":2025.397,"body":"And also I wanted to say to the"},{"startTime":2021.542,"endTime":2025.397,"body":"singing teachers, Understand"},{"startTime":2025.397,"endTime":2029.417,"body":"that the voice science has a very"},{"startTime":2025.397,"endTime":2029.417,"body":"specific usage and a very specific"},{"startTime":2029.417,"endTime":2031.457,"body":"focus that is within each paper."},{"startTime":2031.787,"endTime":2031.817,"body":"Mm."},{"startTime":2031.907,"endTime":2036.887,"body":"And that what you read in a conclusion of"},{"startTime":2031.907,"endTime":2036.887,"body":"a paper will not apply across the board."},{"startTime":2036.947,"endTime":2036.977,"body":"Mm."},{"startTime":2038.392,"endTime":2041.212,"body":"And I thought it was really interesting"},{"startTime":2038.392,"endTime":2041.212,"body":"because I think Gillyanne, and I sit on"},{"startTime":2041.212,"endTime":2046.432,"body":"right on that interface between, we are"},{"startTime":2041.212,"endTime":2046.432,"body":"both practicing voice teachers, Vocal"},{"startTime":2046.432,"endTime":2051.682,"body":"coaches, we do the work, but we also"},{"startTime":2046.432,"endTime":2051.682,"body":"sit in the voice science camp as well."},{"startTime":2051.982,"endTime":2055.045,"body":"Uh, and I thought that was, it's a"},{"startTime":2051.982,"endTime":2055.045,"body":"really interesting place to be because"},{"startTime":2055.165,"endTime":2056.665,"body":"that is a real crossover point."},{"startTime":2056.725,"endTime":2057.445,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":2057.445,"endTime":2063.425,"body":"And that just brings me to why"},{"startTime":2057.445,"endTime":2063.425,"body":"I chose the people that I chose."},{"startTime":2063.755,"endTime":2063.905,"body":"Nice."},{"startTime":2064.475,"endTime":2071.885,"body":"Which was both Irene Bartlett and I have a"},{"startTime":2064.475,"endTime":2071.885,"body":"foot in both camps were on the coal face."},{"startTime":2072.775,"endTime":2076.825,"body":"We're working with singers, we're"},{"startTime":2072.775,"endTime":2076.825,"body":"working with teachers and we have"},{"startTime":2076.825,"endTime":2079.135,"body":"both engaged in doctoral research."},{"startTime":2079.375,"endTime":2081.325,"body":"So we understand what research is."},{"startTime":2081.625,"endTime":2085.435,"body":"I wouldn't describe myself as a voice"},{"startTime":2081.625,"endTime":2085.435,"body":"scientist and I don't think Irene would"},{"startTime":2085.435,"endTime":2088.435,"body":"either, but we are both researchers."},{"startTime":2088.705,"endTime":2091.705,"body":"And that helps us to understand"},{"startTime":2088.705,"endTime":2091.705,"body":"the framework of research."},{"startTime":2091.765,"endTime":2092.155,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":2092.305,"endTime":2096.055,"body":"And we're both fans of using the"},{"startTime":2092.305,"endTime":2096.055,"body":"research to underpin what we do"},{"startTime":2096.055,"endTime":2098.875,"body":"and get more and be more informed."},{"startTime":2099.865,"endTime":2102.895,"body":"We also both recognize the"},{"startTime":2099.865,"endTime":2102.895,"body":"limitations of research."},{"startTime":2103.635,"endTime":2106.635,"body":"At its best it gives you a"},{"startTime":2103.635,"endTime":2106.635,"body":"deeper understanding mm mm."},{"startTime":2106.755,"endTime":2108.465,"body":"At its worst it just gets in the way."},{"startTime":2109.035,"endTime":2115.125,"body":"And I invited Nathalie and Christian"},{"startTime":2109.035,"endTime":2115.125,"body":"and Allen because I knew first of"},{"startTime":2115.125,"endTime":2119.255,"body":"all, that all of them sang or had"},{"startTime":2115.125,"endTime":2119.255,"body":"taught or were still teaching."},{"startTime":2119.255,"endTime":2120.585,"body":"Allan is still teaching."},{"startTime":2121.46,"endTime":2127.7,"body":"um, and I knew that they were all active"},{"startTime":2121.46,"endTime":2127.7,"body":"in disseminating voice science information"},{"startTime":2127.7,"endTime":2132.56,"body":"to the community so that they, they had a"},{"startTime":2127.7,"endTime":2132.56,"body":"real interest in having this conversation."},{"startTime":2134.19,"endTime":2138.61,"body":"And then once Allan had proposed Kirsten"},{"startTime":2134.19,"endTime":2138.61,"body":"to me and I was a little bit trepidatious"},{"startTime":2138.63,"endTime":2144.6,"body":"to begin with, but I went on online and"},{"startTime":2138.63,"endTime":2144.6,"body":"I had a look at one of her YouTube videos"},{"startTime":2144.6,"endTime":2148.32,"body":"and I thought, oh, Qigong, Tai Chi."},{"startTime":2148.92,"endTime":2149.69,"body":"Oh, right."},{"startTime":2149.69,"endTime":2150.13,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":2150.42,"endTime":2151.44,"body":"I recognize that."},{"startTime":2151.47,"endTime":2151.98,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":2152.01,"endTime":2156.555,"body":"And also if you watch any of"},{"startTime":2152.01,"endTime":2156.555,"body":"Kirsten's stuff,  it's a dynamic"},{"startTime":2156.555,"endTime":2161.355,"body":"personality and I thought this"},{"startTime":2156.555,"endTime":2161.355,"body":"lady is going to hold her own."},{"startTime":2161.685,"endTime":2165.315,"body":"She will be a brilliant"},{"startTime":2161.685,"endTime":2165.315,"body":"person in the conversation."},{"startTime":2165.825,"endTime":2169.585,"body":"And I think it's, it was that,"},{"startTime":2165.825,"endTime":2169.585,"body":"the joint energy that we brought"},{"startTime":2169.585,"endTime":2171.055,"body":"that made it such a success."},{"startTime":2171.055,"endTime":2177.265,"body":"And I'm so grateful to my co discussants"},{"startTime":2171.055,"endTime":2177.265,"body":"because, um, it actually was an amazing"},{"startTime":2177.895,"endTime":2180.585,"body":"first Round Table chair experience for me."},{"startTime":2180.675,"endTime":2184.565,"body":"And as Jeremy said, the feedback"},{"startTime":2180.675,"endTime":2184.565,"body":"we've had is phenomenal and not"},{"startTime":2184.565,"endTime":2188.495,"body":"just from the singing teachers"},{"startTime":2184.565,"endTime":2188.495,"body":"also from the voice scientists."},{"startTime":2188.885,"endTime":2192.305,"body":"So, so the question is,"},{"startTime":2188.885,"endTime":2192.305,"body":"would we do it again?"},{"startTime":2193.715,"endTime":2195.035,"body":"What, a voice conference?"},{"startTime":2196.13,"endTime":2198.34,"body":"For sure, absolutely."},{"startTime":2199.49,"endTime":2201.02,"body":"Such a great experience."},{"startTime":2201.26,"endTime":2203.15,"body":"And how can they do it again?"},{"startTime":2203.27,"endTime":2209.09,"body":"Oh, PEVoC PEVoC 15, which will be in"},{"startTime":2203.27,"endTime":2209.09,"body":"2024, uh, was announced on the last day."},{"startTime":2209.21,"endTime":2209.27,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2209.27,"endTime":2211.9,"body":"And PEVoC24.com."},{"startTime":2212.18,"endTime":2214.95,"body":"P E V O C 2 0 2 4 dot com."},{"startTime":2215.0,"endTime":2218.66,"body":"Mm-hmm  uh, is the website to"},{"startTime":2215.0,"endTime":2218.66,"body":"go to and we are going to be"},{"startTime":2218.72,"endTime":2221.17,"body":"in Santander in Northern Spain."},{"startTime":2222.14,"endTime":2223.92,"body":"September 2024."},{"startTime":2223.94,"endTime":2224.36,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2224.36,"endTime":2228.14,"body":"And the conference centre, I think is"},{"startTime":2224.36,"endTime":2228.14,"body":"about a hundred meters from the beach."},{"startTime":2228.14,"endTime":2228.86,"body":"It is."},{"startTime":2228.92,"endTime":2229.52,"body":"It is."},{"startTime":2229.55,"endTime":2230.0,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":2230.0,"endTime":2231.26,"body":"Sounds good to me."},{"startTime":2231.32,"endTime":2231.56,"body":"Yep."},{"startTime":2231.62,"endTime":2232.7,"body":"Sounds good to me."},{"startTime":2232.7,"endTime":2233.42,"body":"So we'll be there."},{"startTime":2233.93,"endTime":2234.26,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2234.26,"endTime":2238.88,"body":"And that'll be, that'll be, you won't"},{"startTime":2234.26,"endTime":2238.88,"body":"have broken your, your run since 2003."},{"startTime":2238.91,"endTime":2241.35,"body":"No, I have no intention"},{"startTime":2238.91,"endTime":2241.35,"body":"of breaking my run."},{"startTime":2241.85,"endTime":2246.51,"body":"So, um, what we are saying is if you"},{"startTime":2241.85,"endTime":2246.51,"body":"see a voice conference like this, go,"},{"startTime":2246.8,"endTime":2248.365,"body":"because it is an extraordinary experience."},{"startTime":2248.395,"endTime":2251.485,"body":"Mm-hmm,  take care of yourself while"},{"startTime":2248.395,"endTime":2251.485,"body":"you are there, because it is also"},{"startTime":2251.485,"endTime":2253.795,"body":"a smack in the face of information."},{"startTime":2253.885,"endTime":2258.895,"body":"Mm-hmm  um, but enjoy yourself, meet"},{"startTime":2253.885,"endTime":2258.895,"body":"people, talk to people, get connections."},{"startTime":2258.925,"endTime":2259.555,"body":"Yeah, you're gonna grow."},{"startTime":2259.555,"endTime":2261.235,"body":"Oh, and we didn't give the title."},{"startTime":2261.655,"endTime":2266.635,"body":"Oh, the title for, um, PEVoC15"},{"startTime":2261.655,"endTime":2266.635,"body":"is Voice Moves The World."},{"startTime":2266.635,"endTime":2267.325,"body":"Isn't that lovely?"},{"startTime":2267.475,"endTime":2268.075,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":2269.155,"endTime":2269.635,"body":"So that's it."},{"startTime":2269.845,"endTime":2270.445,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":2270.445,"endTime":2270.895,"body":"We're done."},{"startTime":2271.465,"endTime":2272.965,"body":"And we will see you next time."},{"startTime":2273.445,"endTime":2274.015,"body":"Bye."},{"startTime":2274.015,"endTime":2274.615,"body":"Byebye."},{"startTime":2286.827,"endTime":2290.217,"body":"This is a voice, a podcast with Dr."},{"startTime":2290.217,"endTime":2292.407,"body":"Gillyanne Kayes and Jeremy Fisher."},{"startTime":2293.427,"endTime":2294.937,"body":"This is a voice."}]}