{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":0.05,"endTime":6.95,"body":"What can be triggering for a lot of"},{"startTime":0.05,"endTime":6.95,"body":"people who have survived traumas, one"},{"startTime":6.95,"endTime":16.46,"body":"sort, or the other is if they're being"},{"startTime":6.95,"endTime":16.46,"body":"told what to do, because the very essence"},{"startTime":16.55,"endTime":21.23,"body":"of a traumatic experience is that you"},{"startTime":16.55,"endTime":21.23,"body":"had no choice, that choice has been"},{"startTime":21.23,"endTime":26.69,"body":"taken away from you, that you were in"},{"startTime":21.23,"endTime":26.69,"body":"a situation where there was no way out,"},{"startTime":26.75,"endTime":28.819,"body":"whatever that was for you personally."},{"startTime":29.659,"endTime":34.94,"body":"And the smallest things that we"},{"startTime":29.659,"endTime":34.94,"body":"maybe don't even think about twice"},{"startTime":35.48,"endTime":40.429,"body":"can bring this sensation of immense"},{"startTime":35.48,"endTime":40.429,"body":"helplessness and shame, and maybe"},{"startTime":40.434,"endTime":43.639,"body":"even feelings of guilt back up again."},{"startTime":43.699,"endTime":49.429,"body":"So if someone feels like I'm being told"},{"startTime":43.699,"endTime":49.429,"body":"to do this, and I have no choice and I"},{"startTime":49.429,"endTime":56.0,"body":"maybe feel like I can't do it, but that's"},{"startTime":49.429,"endTime":56.0,"body":"the person in the know, and I'm sabotaging"},{"startTime":56.0,"endTime":57.44,"body":"my own session here or something."},{"startTime":57.44,"endTime":60.829,"body":"These are the thoughts that"},{"startTime":57.44,"endTime":60.829,"body":"come up for people like that."},{"startTime":72.756,"endTime":76.176,"body":"This is a voice, a podcast with Dr."},{"startTime":76.176,"endTime":78.335,"body":"Gillyanne Kayes and Jeremy Fisher."},{"startTime":82.848,"endTime":87.125,"body":"Hello, and welcome to this is a voice"},{"startTime":82.848,"endTime":87.125,"body":"season six episode three, the podcast"},{"startTime":87.125,"endTime":88.985,"body":"where we get Vocal about voice."},{"startTime":89.315,"endTime":94.655,"body":"And we have a very special guest with"},{"startTime":89.315,"endTime":94.655,"body":"us, Petra Borzynski, who is a voice"},{"startTime":94.66,"endTime":98.165,"body":"coach, cognitive behavioral therapist,"},{"startTime":94.66,"endTime":98.165,"body":"somatic coach, all sorts of things."},{"startTime":98.215,"endTime":100.705,"body":"I've been looking up your credentials."},{"startTime":100.705,"endTime":101.755,"body":"They're really interesting."},{"startTime":101.755,"endTime":105.475,"body":"And you have a dual career as well,"},{"startTime":101.755,"endTime":105.475,"body":"which in fact, technically you have"},{"startTime":105.475,"endTime":108.934,"body":"had a triple career mm-hmm,  you"},{"startTime":105.475,"endTime":108.934,"body":"were an environmental scientist and"},{"startTime":108.934,"endTime":110.524,"body":"I love that piece of information."},{"startTime":110.794,"endTime":111.244,"body":"I've forgotten."},{"startTime":111.244,"endTime":112.084,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":112.144,"endTime":112.804,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":112.809,"endTime":113.224,"body":"What did you do?"},{"startTime":113.884,"endTime":117.304,"body":"Um, I basically, I started"},{"startTime":113.884,"endTime":117.304,"body":"studying geography."},{"startTime":117.309,"endTime":121.604,"body":"I mean, it's like,  the long and"},{"startTime":117.309,"endTime":121.604,"body":"winding path, so to speak because I had"},{"startTime":121.609,"endTime":125.924,"body":"very low confidence as a singer, so I"},{"startTime":121.609,"endTime":125.924,"body":"never really believed in my abilities."},{"startTime":126.494,"endTime":129.734,"body":"And, um, yeah, I basically thought"},{"startTime":126.494,"endTime":129.734,"body":"I'll have something running in the"},{"startTime":129.734,"endTime":132.704,"body":"background just to be sure that"},{"startTime":129.734,"endTime":132.704,"body":"have something to fall back on."},{"startTime":133.134,"endTime":137.574,"body":"I actually, Before I went into singing"},{"startTime":133.134,"endTime":137.574,"body":"and teaching singing, I was working"},{"startTime":137.574,"endTime":143.574,"body":"in environmental health for while and,"},{"startTime":137.574,"endTime":143.574,"body":"um, specifically in noise reduction,"},{"startTime":143.604,"endTime":145.494,"body":"which I always think is sort of funny."},{"startTime":146.904,"endTime":150.864,"body":"Cause I certainly tortured"},{"startTime":146.904,"endTime":150.864,"body":"enough neighbors with my singing"},{"startTime":150.864,"endTime":152.424,"body":"practice and so on and so forth."},{"startTime":152.474,"endTime":155.404,"body":"It's so interesting to have a background,"},{"startTime":152.474,"endTime":155.404,"body":"first of all, a background in noise"},{"startTime":155.404,"endTime":159.494,"body":"reduction, which I love, but also to"},{"startTime":155.404,"endTime":159.494,"body":"have a background as a singer who isn't"},{"startTime":159.494,"endTime":164.414,"body":"confident given what you do now, I"},{"startTime":159.494,"endTime":164.414,"body":"think that's a fantastic route through."},{"startTime":164.744,"endTime":165.734,"body":"Um, just a little bit more."},{"startTime":165.734,"endTime":167.564,"body":"You've been a keynote"},{"startTime":165.734,"endTime":167.564,"body":"speaker at conferences."},{"startTime":167.564,"endTime":170.744,"body":"You've been an, you are an article"},{"startTime":167.564,"endTime":170.744,"body":"writer for national magazines."},{"startTime":171.104,"endTime":174.704,"body":"Um, your qualifications are really"},{"startTime":171.104,"endTime":174.704,"body":"interesting cuz you have qualifications"},{"startTime":174.704,"endTime":179.294,"body":"in psychology, cognitive behavioral"},{"startTime":174.704,"endTime":179.294,"body":"therapy, counseling crisis and"},{"startTime":179.299,"endTime":180.794,"body":"trauma and somatic therapy."},{"startTime":180.799,"endTime":185.104,"body":"Mm-hmm  mm-hmm  and this is, and you"},{"startTime":180.799,"endTime":185.104,"body":"are bringing that into the world of the"},{"startTime":185.104,"endTime":187.664,"body":"singer and I think that's so fascinating."},{"startTime":188.174,"endTime":188.204,"body":"Mm."},{"startTime":188.294,"endTime":192.584,"body":"And actually, before we kick off,"},{"startTime":188.294,"endTime":192.584,"body":"I just want to thank you for the"},{"startTime":192.589,"endTime":197.024,"body":"many really meaningful social"},{"startTime":192.589,"endTime":197.024,"body":"media posts you manage to do."},{"startTime":197.294,"endTime":201.554,"body":"I think it's quite an art, you"},{"startTime":197.294,"endTime":201.554,"body":"know, that you will post about"},{"startTime":201.554,"endTime":203.204,"body":"something and it's thoughtful."},{"startTime":203.209,"endTime":204.074,"body":"It's ins."},{"startTime":204.474,"endTime":205.164,"body":"Insightful."},{"startTime":205.164,"endTime":206.814,"body":"It's always inclusive."},{"startTime":207.144,"endTime":211.644,"body":"So listeners, if you haven't come"},{"startTime":207.144,"endTime":211.644,"body":"across Petra, just look for singing"},{"startTime":211.644,"endTime":216.804,"body":"sense as her Instagram handles and"},{"startTime":211.644,"endTime":216.804,"body":"presumably your Facebook as well."},{"startTime":216.834,"endTime":217.044,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":217.314,"endTime":221.034,"body":"And do you know, there's so much"},{"startTime":217.314,"endTime":221.034,"body":"value just in reading those posts"},{"startTime":221.039,"endTime":223.614,"body":"and, and we'll, we'll put the"},{"startTime":221.039,"endTime":223.614,"body":"links onto the show notes yeah at"},{"startTime":223.614,"endTime":224.914,"body":"the end so people can find you."},{"startTime":226.174,"endTime":226.964,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":226.964,"endTime":233.237,"body":"So, um, today, just so that people know"},{"startTime":226.964,"endTime":233.237,"body":"we're actually recording the day after,"},{"startTime":233.367,"endTime":239.277,"body":"um, we lost Queen Elizabeth here in"},{"startTime":233.367,"endTime":239.277,"body":"the UK, and I felt that maybe it was an"},{"startTime":239.277,"endTime":245.487,"body":"appropriate way to start off by talking"},{"startTime":239.277,"endTime":245.487,"body":"about how we handle things as teachers,"},{"startTime":245.487,"endTime":249.417,"body":"because obviously most of our audience"},{"startTime":245.487,"endTime":249.417,"body":"are singers and teachers, how do we"},{"startTime":249.417,"endTime":251.457,"body":"handle things when we've got a wobble?"},{"startTime":251.457,"endTime":251.517,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":251.967,"endTime":256.287,"body":"Because I can tell you right away that"},{"startTime":251.967,"endTime":256.287,"body":"this morning I was reading a forum"},{"startTime":256.287,"endTime":260.577,"body":"post, you know, cuz I belong to a"},{"startTime":256.287,"endTime":260.577,"body":"forum for people with heart arrhythmia"},{"startTime":260.967,"endTime":263.937,"body":"and somebody posted about the Queen."},{"startTime":264.417,"endTime":267.237,"body":"And I just burst into"},{"startTime":264.417,"endTime":267.237,"body":"tears, just like that."},{"startTime":267.237,"endTime":271.211,"body":"You know, someone I've never met"},{"startTime":267.237,"endTime":271.211,"body":"and there's this kind of social"},{"startTime":271.211,"endTime":276.166,"body":"grief thing going around and it"},{"startTime":271.211,"endTime":276.166,"body":"impacts on you and we've all been"},{"startTime":276.166,"endTime":277.576,"body":"in those situations, haven't we?"},{"startTime":277.576,"endTime":281.476,"body":"Where someone's come in,"},{"startTime":277.576,"endTime":281.476,"body":"talk to us about wobbles."},{"startTime":283.681,"endTime":288.571,"body":"Well, our own wobbles and the wobble of"},{"startTime":283.681,"endTime":288.571,"body":"the person we're talking to, obviously,"},{"startTime":288.571,"endTime":293.791,"body":"I mean, sometimes they go hand in hand,"},{"startTime":288.571,"endTime":293.791,"body":"like in a situation, um, like we're facing"},{"startTime":293.796,"endTime":296.701,"body":"today essentially, or, um, and everything."},{"startTime":296.701,"endTime":298.981,"body":"I think COVID was a bit like that as well."},{"startTime":298.981,"endTime":301.201,"body":"We were all in this together."},{"startTime":301.231,"endTime":305.881,"body":"Um, sounds a bit cliche, but it"},{"startTime":301.231,"endTime":305.881,"body":"really was true, I think, to a degree."},{"startTime":306.451,"endTime":311.341,"body":"And, um, so yeah, there's"},{"startTime":306.451,"endTime":311.341,"body":"obviously what do we do with our"},{"startTime":311.341,"endTime":315.871,"body":"own wobbles when we still have to"},{"startTime":311.341,"endTime":315.871,"body":"teach when we still have to work?"},{"startTime":316.531,"endTime":320.671,"body":"And then on top of that, when we"},{"startTime":316.531,"endTime":320.671,"body":"are maybe already feeling a bit"},{"startTime":320.671,"endTime":325.321,"body":"low or wobbly, um, yeah, how do we"},{"startTime":320.671,"endTime":325.321,"body":"deal with someone else's wobbles?"},{"startTime":325.321,"endTime":327.421,"body":"And that is obviously"},{"startTime":325.321,"endTime":327.421,"body":"very, very important."},{"startTime":327.426,"endTime":331.501,"body":"I think, um, the own"},{"startTime":327.426,"endTime":331.501,"body":"wobbles always comes first."},{"startTime":331.501,"endTime":335.671,"body":"It's a bit like the old adage about"},{"startTime":331.501,"endTime":335.671,"body":"putting your own mask on first."},{"startTime":335.671,"endTime":338.401,"body":"If you know what I mean, you"},{"startTime":335.671,"endTime":338.401,"body":"really can only be there for others"},{"startTime":338.761,"endTime":340.921,"body":"if you take care of yourself."},{"startTime":341.461,"endTime":344.206,"body":"And I would always say, yeah."},{"startTime":344.206,"endTime":348.826,"body":"If it affects you so much that"},{"startTime":344.206,"endTime":348.826,"body":"you really feel today is not the"},{"startTime":348.826,"endTime":353.116,"body":"day, then I think no one should"},{"startTime":348.826,"endTime":353.116,"body":"feel shame to say, you know what?"},{"startTime":353.146,"endTime":357.886,"body":"Um, I have to cancel today because"},{"startTime":353.146,"endTime":357.886,"body":"I feel like I wouldn't give my"},{"startTime":357.891,"endTime":360.076,"body":"best and I owe you that much."},{"startTime":360.346,"endTime":363.016,"body":"And I think most people"},{"startTime":360.346,"endTime":363.016,"body":"understand that as well."},{"startTime":363.016,"endTime":366.976,"body":"So I would say always put your own"},{"startTime":363.016,"endTime":366.976,"body":"mask on first that obviously goes"},{"startTime":366.976,"endTime":372.676,"body":"without saying so, um, it gets a"},{"startTime":366.976,"endTime":372.676,"body":"bit of knowing yourself as well."},{"startTime":372.676,"endTime":377.776,"body":"If you can handle it, if you can,"},{"startTime":372.676,"endTime":377.776,"body":"self-regulate enough to still go"},{"startTime":377.776,"endTime":382.786,"body":"into your sessions or whatever"},{"startTime":377.776,"endTime":382.786,"body":"you have on, um, to still give"},{"startTime":382.786,"endTime":384.406,"body":"your best in big quotation marks."},{"startTime":384.406,"endTime":387.346,"body":"That always sounds a bit trite,"},{"startTime":384.406,"endTime":387.346,"body":"but, um, at the end of the day, we"},{"startTime":387.346,"endTime":388.756,"body":"want to be there for our clients."},{"startTime":388.756,"endTime":391.576,"body":"And at the best ways is it it's"},{"startTime":388.756,"endTime":391.576,"body":"about knowing yourself, isn't it."},{"startTime":391.576,"endTime":393.946,"body":"It's knowing how you yourself react."},{"startTime":393.951,"endTime":394.446,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":394.446,"endTime":398.506,"body":"And the things that you can do that are"},{"startTime":394.446,"endTime":398.506,"body":"best for you in those circumstances."},{"startTime":398.566,"endTime":401.846,"body":"There's so, so many things I love"},{"startTime":398.566,"endTime":401.846,"body":"about what you've just said, because."},{"startTime":402.806,"endTime":404.036,"body":"We talk a lot."},{"startTime":404.096,"endTime":407.396,"body":"Um, when we're working with teachers"},{"startTime":404.096,"endTime":407.396,"body":"about the importance of holding"},{"startTime":407.396,"endTime":409.346,"body":"the space for someone's learning."},{"startTime":409.466,"endTime":409.556,"body":"Yep."},{"startTime":410.186,"endTime":414.116,"body":"And we work to hold the space when"},{"startTime":410.186,"endTime":414.116,"body":"we're working in our own trainings."},{"startTime":414.446,"endTime":417.776,"body":"But what you are saying is first"},{"startTime":414.446,"endTime":417.776,"body":"hold the space for yourself."},{"startTime":418.016,"endTime":418.196,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":418.876,"endTime":422.506,"body":"Absolutely because you"},{"startTime":418.876,"endTime":422.506,"body":"can't, you are the container."},{"startTime":422.506,"endTime":423.706,"body":"I'll always say that."},{"startTime":423.766,"endTime":427.756,"body":"Um, I mean, as therapist, we talk"},{"startTime":423.766,"endTime":427.756,"body":"about that quite often, um, safety on"},{"startTime":427.756,"endTime":429.136,"body":"containment and so on and so forth."},{"startTime":429.141,"endTime":433.846,"body":"And you as a therapist are"},{"startTime":429.141,"endTime":433.846,"body":"part of that safe container."},{"startTime":434.206,"endTime":440.056,"body":"And, um, if you are literally overflowing"},{"startTime":434.206,"endTime":440.056,"body":"with your own stuff, let's say it that"},{"startTime":440.056,"endTime":445.306,"body":"way, there is no space for any of the"},{"startTime":440.056,"endTime":445.306,"body":"stuff of your clients, essentially."},{"startTime":445.306,"endTime":450.136,"body":"So you need to make sure that you are"},{"startTime":445.306,"endTime":450.136,"body":"in a good grounded place yourself first."},{"startTime":450.136,"endTime":454.866,"body":"So you can't go into a session if"},{"startTime":450.136,"endTime":454.866,"body":"you're dealing with your own stuff."},{"startTime":454.996,"endTime":457.306,"body":"Um, it has to be said like that."},{"startTime":457.306,"endTime":461.986,"body":"And sometimes then it's actually better"},{"startTime":457.306,"endTime":461.986,"body":"to say, okay, I just need that time off."},{"startTime":461.986,"endTime":465.106,"body":"I owe that to myself and I"},{"startTime":461.986,"endTime":465.106,"body":"also owe that to my clients."},{"startTime":465.816,"endTime":466.746,"body":"That's very nice."},{"startTime":466.751,"endTime":469.856,"body":"And we know as well now don't"},{"startTime":466.751,"endTime":469.856,"body":"we, that if we just try and"},{"startTime":469.856,"endTime":471.386,"body":"suppress what we're feeling."},{"startTime":471.386,"endTime":471.446,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":472.106,"endTime":475.946,"body":"That's actually, I mean, it it's"},{"startTime":472.106,"endTime":475.946,"body":"toxic in the sense that it affects us."},{"startTime":475.946,"endTime":480.536,"body":"It maps itself in the brain because"},{"startTime":475.946,"endTime":480.536,"body":"we haven't dealt with what's going on."},{"startTime":480.686,"endTime":481.496,"body":"Mm-hmm  am I right?"},{"startTime":481.496,"endTime":483.026,"body":"Have I understood that correctly?"},{"startTime":483.031,"endTime":483.306,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":483.306,"endTime":483.666,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":485.131,"endTime":489.241,"body":"um, and then that's going to"},{"startTime":485.131,"endTime":489.241,"body":"affect us long term, let alone"},{"startTime":489.241,"endTime":491.341,"body":"how I think it's inevitable."},{"startTime":491.341,"endTime":492.541,"body":"It's going to spill out."},{"startTime":492.571,"endTime":496.801,"body":"I mean, like it's spilling out"},{"startTime":492.571,"endTime":496.801,"body":"today, but I decided to use it, um,"},{"startTime":496.831,"endTime":500.341,"body":"because in a way it's very relevant"},{"startTime":496.831,"endTime":500.341,"body":"to what we wanted to discuss anyway."},{"startTime":500.341,"endTime":502.621,"body":"Mm-hmm  but it spills out over the sides."},{"startTime":502.686,"endTime":503.041,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":503.101,"endTime":503.251,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":503.521,"endTime":504.961,"body":"And we don't want that happening."},{"startTime":505.591,"endTime":508.591,"body":"So you mentioned self-regulation."},{"startTime":508.591,"endTime":509.881,"body":"Should we go there next?"},{"startTime":509.881,"endTime":512.071,"body":"I mean, it's all over social media."},{"startTime":512.521,"endTime":516.571,"body":"What the hell is self-regulation,"},{"startTime":512.521,"endTime":516.571,"body":"you know, let's put it on the wall."},{"startTime":516.601,"endTime":516.901,"body":"What is it?"},{"startTime":517.711,"endTime":522.751,"body":"Well, self-regulation is essentially"},{"startTime":517.711,"endTime":522.751,"body":"the ability to manage your let's"},{"startTime":522.751,"endTime":524.821,"body":"call it energy states in a way."},{"startTime":524.821,"endTime":528.601,"body":"So that includes, um,"},{"startTime":524.821,"endTime":528.601,"body":"the physical and somatic."},{"startTime":528.971,"endTime":534.571,"body":"That includes your, um, yeah learning your"},{"startTime":528.971,"endTime":534.571,"body":"mental capacity and so on and so forth."},{"startTime":534.571,"endTime":538.501,"body":"That includes your emotions and"},{"startTime":534.571,"endTime":538.501,"body":"your thoughts . So when we are"},{"startTime":538.501,"endTime":542.371,"body":"talking about regulation in that"},{"startTime":538.501,"endTime":542.371,"body":"context, that doesn't necessarily"},{"startTime":542.371,"endTime":544.411,"body":"mean you already brushed on that."},{"startTime":544.531,"endTime":550.021,"body":"Um, I don't regulate to push it away, so"},{"startTime":544.531,"endTime":550.021,"body":"it's not that, it's not suppressing it."},{"startTime":550.021,"endTime":551.581,"body":"That's something entirely different."},{"startTime":552.151,"endTime":558.301,"body":"It's just, um, the ability to yeah,"},{"startTime":552.151,"endTime":558.301,"body":"work towards the best outcome."},{"startTime":558.361,"endTime":559.441,"body":"Let's say it that way."},{"startTime":560.281,"endTime":566.131,"body":"So, um, just to take that example, if"},{"startTime":560.281,"endTime":566.131,"body":"you are quite upset about something"},{"startTime":566.491,"endTime":568.711,"body":"there's different ways to self regulate."},{"startTime":569.221,"endTime":575.986,"body":"There is, yeah, crying for instance,"},{"startTime":569.221,"endTime":575.986,"body":"and knowing if I let loose in that way."},{"startTime":575.986,"endTime":580.426,"body":"And if I just let it wash over me,"},{"startTime":575.986,"endTime":580.426,"body":"and if I give myself the space to"},{"startTime":580.431,"endTime":585.286,"body":"allow that, that is self-regulation,"},{"startTime":580.431,"endTime":585.286,"body":"so it's the complete opposite"},{"startTime":585.286,"endTime":587.686,"body":"of pushing it away essentially."},{"startTime":587.691,"endTime":587.746,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":587.776,"endTime":591.166,"body":"Or doing something where,"},{"startTime":587.776,"endTime":591.166,"body":"you know, that feels good."},{"startTime":591.166,"endTime":592.426,"body":"That feels nurturing."},{"startTime":592.456,"endTime":597.856,"body":"That feels right for me in this very"},{"startTime":592.456,"endTime":597.856,"body":"moment, whether it is just sitting"},{"startTime":598.276,"endTime":602.446,"body":"in a corner with a book somewhere"},{"startTime":598.276,"endTime":602.446,"body":"and, and closing yourself off for a"},{"startTime":602.476,"endTime":606.256,"body":"wee while so that, you know, like,"},{"startTime":602.476,"endTime":606.256,"body":"okay, I, I need this time for myself."},{"startTime":606.586,"endTime":610.306,"body":"Or having a bath or going on"},{"startTime":606.586,"endTime":610.306,"body":"a walk or exercising to get"},{"startTime":610.306,"endTime":611.566,"body":"things out of your system."},{"startTime":611.896,"endTime":614.776,"body":"That is obviously very,"},{"startTime":611.896,"endTime":614.776,"body":"very, um, individual."},{"startTime":614.776,"endTime":617.026,"body":"So there's no hard and fast rules."},{"startTime":617.356,"endTime":621.916,"body":"This is what we do when we self-regulate"},{"startTime":617.356,"endTime":621.916,"body":"mm-hmm  um, so that's also about"},{"startTime":621.916,"endTime":627.526,"body":"the, getting to know yourself and"},{"startTime":621.916,"endTime":627.526,"body":"also getting to know what, let's use"},{"startTime":627.526,"endTime":629.686,"body":"that word, triggers you in a way."},{"startTime":630.586,"endTime":635.986,"body":"And learning the ability to, um, yeah,"},{"startTime":630.586,"endTime":635.986,"body":"step back from that essentially, and"},{"startTime":635.986,"endTime":643.246,"body":"to say sort of like, how can I sort"},{"startTime":635.986,"endTime":643.246,"body":"of not just be reactive, but still"},{"startTime":643.306,"endTime":648.706,"body":"allow to process if, if that makes"},{"startTime":643.306,"endTime":648.706,"body":"any sense, because reactivity, again,"},{"startTime":648.706,"endTime":652.576,"body":"can sometimes be a bit dangerous,"},{"startTime":648.706,"endTime":652.576,"body":"especially if we take it into the"},{"startTime":652.576,"endTime":655.336,"body":"space with other people, essentially."},{"startTime":655.336,"endTime":656.346,"body":"So it's a."},{"startTime":656.346,"endTime":657.026,"body":"It's a real skill."},{"startTime":657.096,"endTime":658.966,"body":"It's a real, yeah, it's a real skill."},{"startTime":658.996,"endTime":659.536,"body":"It's hard."},{"startTime":660.016,"endTime":663.436,"body":"Well, I mean, when you are in, when"},{"startTime":660.016,"endTime":663.436,"body":"you are in strong emotions, you are"},{"startTime":663.441,"endTime":666.706,"body":"in strong emotions and it's a real"},{"startTime":663.441,"endTime":666.706,"body":"skill to have a part of you that goes,"},{"startTime":666.711,"endTime":668.506,"body":"hang on, I'm in a strong emotion."},{"startTime":669.786,"endTime":673.951,"body":"um, and is that strong emotion, I'm not"},{"startTime":669.786,"endTime":673.951,"body":"even gonna say necessary cuz that's not"},{"startTime":673.956,"endTime":675.871,"body":"the right word, but is it appropriate?"},{"startTime":675.871,"endTime":676.501,"body":"Is it relevant?"},{"startTime":676.501,"endTime":681.001,"body":"Am I reacting so strongly to"},{"startTime":676.501,"endTime":681.001,"body":"something that maybe isn't doesn't"},{"startTime":681.001,"endTime":682.561,"body":"need that form of reaction?"},{"startTime":682.831,"endTime":684.061,"body":"That's a real skill to learn."},{"startTime":684.061,"endTime":686.911,"body":"I mean, I, I learn it,"},{"startTime":684.061,"endTime":686.911,"body":"you know, I, I use it."},{"startTime":687.211,"endTime":689.941,"body":"It's very interesting when"},{"startTime":687.211,"endTime":689.941,"body":"you go hang on a minute, I'm"},{"startTime":689.941,"endTime":691.951,"body":"reacting really strongly to this."},{"startTime":692.221,"endTime":693.091,"body":"What else is going on?"},{"startTime":693.091,"endTime":693.721,"body":"What's going on?"},{"startTime":693.721,"endTime":698.491,"body":"I mean, we have a key phrase actually in"},{"startTime":693.721,"endTime":698.491,"body":"our own personal relationship, which is,"},{"startTime":699.511,"endTime":701.131,"body":"\"are you in the grip of strong emotion?\""},{"startTime":701.841,"endTime":702.451,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":704.941,"endTime":705.391,"body":"I like that."},{"startTime":706.261,"endTime":709.081,"body":"If you're on the receiving end"},{"startTime":706.261,"endTime":709.081,"body":"of a grip of strong emotion and"},{"startTime":709.081,"endTime":713.461,"body":"obviously, you know, we, we both do"},{"startTime":709.081,"endTime":713.461,"body":"that, yeah, it can feel like a blast."},{"startTime":713.461,"endTime":716.051,"body":"And your natural response"},{"startTime":713.461,"endTime":716.051,"body":"of course is defend..."},{"startTime":716.071,"endTime":717.691,"body":"Is to defend yourself."},{"startTime":717.991,"endTime":721.471,"body":"Mm-hmm  instead of standing"},{"startTime":717.991,"endTime":721.471,"body":"back and going, oh right."},{"startTime":721.501,"endTime":723.151,"body":"This is a grip of a strong emotion."},{"startTime":725.491,"endTime":726.961,"body":"We understand what this is."},{"startTime":727.051,"endTime":729.091,"body":"That's what you're feeling right now."},{"startTime":729.091,"endTime":732.901,"body":"And I mean, obviously this is very"},{"startTime":729.091,"endTime":732.901,"body":"much your, your job as a therapist."},{"startTime":732.901,"endTime":734.281,"body":"This is your day to day thing."},{"startTime":734.611,"endTime":741.931,"body":"As singing teachers in the singing"},{"startTime":734.611,"endTime":741.931,"body":"studio, I suspect that's somewhere"},{"startTime":741.931,"endTime":743.701,"body":"where we need not be going."},{"startTime":743.701,"endTime":747.001,"body":"And when we talk about boundaries,"},{"startTime":743.701,"endTime":747.001,"body":"you can help us with that."},{"startTime":747.031,"endTime":751.741,"body":"But if we're going back to"},{"startTime":747.031,"endTime":751.741,"body":"self-regulation, this is a theme."},{"startTime":751.741,"endTime":755.671,"body":"That's come up twice, already"},{"startTime":751.741,"endTime":755.671,"body":"getting to know yourself."},{"startTime":756.721,"endTime":758.491,"body":"We need to know ourselves."},{"startTime":758.521,"endTime":762.631,"body":"If we're going to be able to work"},{"startTime":758.521,"endTime":762.631,"body":"with other people and singing"},{"startTime":762.631,"endTime":764.491,"body":"teachers are not therapists."},{"startTime":765.056,"endTime":769.886,"body":"But there's a real bond of trust"},{"startTime":765.056,"endTime":769.886,"body":"between a singing teacher and a client."},{"startTime":770.276,"endTime":773.306,"body":"And we need to know how to"},{"startTime":770.276,"endTime":773.306,"body":"handle that bond, I think."},{"startTime":773.966,"endTime":774.056,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":774.061,"endTime":777.206,"body":"And before we go further, there's"},{"startTime":774.061,"endTime":777.206,"body":"a word that keeps coming up and"},{"startTime":777.206,"endTime":781.376,"body":"I want to ask you what it means,"},{"startTime":777.206,"endTime":781.376,"body":"and that is the word somatic."},{"startTime":781.436,"endTime":783.656,"body":"Oh, mm-hmm,  tell me what somatic means."},{"startTime":784.616,"endTime":790.106,"body":"I mean, um, in the sort of therapy realm,"},{"startTime":784.616,"endTime":790.106,"body":"that's sort of slightly different maybe"},{"startTime":790.106,"endTime":793.886,"body":"from what most people would understand,"},{"startTime":790.106,"endTime":793.886,"body":"because for most people, when they talk"},{"startTime":793.886,"endTime":799.046,"body":"about somatic, um, they literally mean,"},{"startTime":793.886,"endTime":799.046,"body":"yeah, everything that concerns the body in"},{"startTime":799.046,"endTime":805.226,"body":"a certain way, essentially, as opposed to"},{"startTime":799.046,"endTime":805.226,"body":"cognitive or whatever else or behavioral,"},{"startTime":805.586,"endTime":807.176,"body":"whatever else we might be talking about."},{"startTime":807.476,"endTime":809.606,"body":"And that is true to an extent."},{"startTime":810.376,"endTime":814.876,"body":"Um, but especially when we are talking"},{"startTime":810.376,"endTime":814.876,"body":"about the coaching and the therapeutic"},{"startTime":814.876,"endTime":820.576,"body":"context, um, somatic essentially means,"},{"startTime":814.876,"endTime":820.576,"body":"um, that we are working on yeah, let's"},{"startTime":820.576,"endTime":822.476,"body":"call it a sort of dual awareness."},{"startTime":823.246,"endTime":829.941,"body":"So, um, we are helping the client to"},{"startTime":823.246,"endTime":829.941,"body":"feel safety in their bodies first,"},{"startTime":830.331,"endTime":833.181,"body":"to gain awareness of what's going on."},{"startTime":833.241,"endTime":836.451,"body":"Um, so that's a bit different from"},{"startTime":833.241,"endTime":836.451,"body":"the approach, for instance, we take in"},{"startTime":836.751,"endTime":840.381,"body":"more cognitive behavioral approaches"},{"startTime":836.751,"endTime":840.381,"body":"where there's a lot of reframing of"},{"startTime":840.386,"endTime":842.511,"body":"thinking patterns and so on and so forth."},{"startTime":842.901,"endTime":849.651,"body":"So this is first of all about, yeah,"},{"startTime":842.901,"endTime":849.651,"body":"allowing the physical experience, because"},{"startTime":849.651,"endTime":853.916,"body":"we probably all know that when we feel"},{"startTime":849.651,"endTime":853.916,"body":"anger, when we feel shame,  when we"},{"startTime":853.916,"endTime":857.286,"body":"feel nerves, it's not just in the head."},{"startTime":857.306,"endTime":861.986,"body":"In fact, I sometimes think"},{"startTime":857.306,"endTime":861.986,"body":"the, the thought process is"},{"startTime":861.986,"endTime":866.156,"body":"actually what's latching onto the"},{"startTime":861.986,"endTime":866.156,"body":"physical sensation, essentially."},{"startTime":866.156,"endTime":869.386,"body":"So when we notice, like, I, for"},{"startTime":866.156,"endTime":869.386,"body":"instance, know that for myself."},{"startTime":870.116,"endTime":874.541,"body":"Um, I always, um, because I have a"},{"startTime":870.116,"endTime":874.541,"body":"benign heart condition, everything"},{"startTime":874.601,"endTime":878.161,"body":"that brings up my heart rate makes"},{"startTime":874.601,"endTime":878.161,"body":"me go if you know what I mean."},{"startTime":878.161,"endTime":884.711,"body":"Totally with you . So you immediately,"},{"startTime":878.161,"endTime":884.711,"body":"although in theory, you could try to"},{"startTime":884.716,"endTime":888.101,"body":"talk yourself out of it, you know,"},{"startTime":884.716,"endTime":888.101,"body":"like, oh, it's it's, it's okay."},{"startTime":888.101,"endTime":890.681,"body":"I've experienced this a million times."},{"startTime":890.921,"endTime":892.181,"body":"It will all be fine."},{"startTime":892.421,"endTime":896.351,"body":"But we all know that's not how it"},{"startTime":892.421,"endTime":896.351,"body":"works on a physical plane, right?"},{"startTime":897.011,"endTime":900.881,"body":"The sweat starts pouring and we"},{"startTime":897.011,"endTime":900.881,"body":"get slightly panicky and it's not"},{"startTime":900.886,"endTime":904.991,"body":"that easy to just really go like,"},{"startTime":900.886,"endTime":904.991,"body":"yeah, just talk myself out of it."},{"startTime":905.351,"endTime":910.691,"body":"So the somatic approach in that case"},{"startTime":905.351,"endTime":910.691,"body":"would be more about, um, I would almost"},{"startTime":910.691,"endTime":917.951,"body":"say a certain curiosity of what's going"},{"startTime":910.691,"endTime":917.951,"body":"on in the body and learning that it's not"},{"startTime":917.951,"endTime":920.711,"body":"necessarily your enemy in that moment."},{"startTime":920.716,"endTime":924.911,"body":"That that's probably a good"},{"startTime":920.716,"endTime":924.911,"body":"reason for why you're feeling"},{"startTime":924.911,"endTime":926.411,"body":"physically what you're feeling."},{"startTime":927.431,"endTime":929.981,"body":"A stress response, whatever it might be."},{"startTime":930.431,"endTime":931.961,"body":"And that, that is normal."},{"startTime":933.011,"endTime":935.351,"body":"And that it's not life threatening."},{"startTime":935.351,"endTime":939.641,"body":"If we talk about sort of more dramatic"},{"startTime":935.351,"endTime":939.641,"body":"cases, obviously, but even if we just"},{"startTime":939.641,"endTime":944.941,"body":"talk about things like performance"},{"startTime":939.641,"endTime":944.941,"body":"nerves, that we learn that our body has"},{"startTime":944.946,"endTime":946.621,"body":"a good reason that does these things."},{"startTime":947.311,"endTime":952.411,"body":"And that they're probably not as bad"},{"startTime":947.311,"endTime":952.411,"body":"as we think, and that we can befriend"},{"startTime":952.891,"endTime":959.851,"body":"our physical response till they lose"},{"startTime":952.891,"endTime":959.851,"body":"this strong emotional grip over us."},{"startTime":960.391,"endTime":964.231,"body":"And then when we start to feel"},{"startTime":960.391,"endTime":964.231,"body":"that safety in our bodies again,"},{"startTime":964.531,"endTime":968.071,"body":"sometimes the cognitive approach"},{"startTime":964.531,"endTime":968.071,"body":"isn't even necessary anymore."},{"startTime":968.071,"endTime":972.701,"body":"Um, so you have people who are totally"},{"startTime":968.071,"endTime":972.701,"body":"fine, just working somatically and they"},{"startTime":972.706,"endTime":977.651,"body":"don't ever need to talk about whatever"},{"startTime":972.706,"endTime":977.651,"body":"trauma they've been through or something."},{"startTime":978.191,"endTime":980.441,"body":"It just they're ready to move on."},{"startTime":981.191,"endTime":985.151,"body":"And some people also, when they feel"},{"startTime":981.191,"endTime":985.151,"body":"safety in their body, then start to"},{"startTime":985.151,"endTime":989.501,"body":"feel, you know what, I'm ready now to"},{"startTime":985.151,"endTime":989.501,"body":"actually start talking about these things."},{"startTime":989.501,"endTime":993.731,"body":"And when I talk about them, they"},{"startTime":989.501,"endTime":993.731,"body":"don't feel triggering anymore"},{"startTime":993.731,"endTime":998.531,"body":"because that is something that"},{"startTime":993.731,"endTime":998.531,"body":"can be quite a slippery slope."},{"startTime":999.041,"endTime":999.191,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":999.191,"endTime":1004.651,"body":"In the studio, for instance, that"},{"startTime":999.191,"endTime":1004.651,"body":"even inadvertently by things we say."},{"startTime":1005.331,"endTime":1008.061,"body":"Even if we mean them"},{"startTime":1005.331,"endTime":1008.061,"body":"well, how does that feel?"},{"startTime":1008.061,"endTime":1015.321,"body":"And so on and so forth that we lead a"},{"startTime":1008.061,"endTime":1015.321,"body":"client into something that triggers them."},{"startTime":1015.326,"endTime":1019.401,"body":"Obviously not consciously, no one"},{"startTime":1015.326,"endTime":1019.401,"body":"does that on purpose, I would reckon."},{"startTime":1019.971,"endTime":1023.961,"body":"Um, so this is, um, where it"},{"startTime":1019.971,"endTime":1023.961,"body":"obviously gets interesting"},{"startTime":1023.961,"endTime":1025.521,"body":"in terms of work in studio."},{"startTime":1026.031,"endTime":1029.151,"body":"I want to go there in a minute, but I"},{"startTime":1026.031,"endTime":1029.151,"body":"want, I want to pick up the word safety."},{"startTime":1029.181,"endTime":1029.781,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":1029.781,"endTime":1030.021,"body":"Go on that."},{"startTime":1030.021,"endTime":1034.491,"body":"Because safety, I I'm so fascinated"},{"startTime":1030.021,"endTime":1034.491,"body":"by the word safety, because anybody"},{"startTime":1034.496,"endTime":1037.671,"body":"who performs, puts themselves"},{"startTime":1034.496,"endTime":1037.671,"body":"into what is potentially an unsafe"},{"startTime":1037.671,"endTime":1039.771,"body":"situation for, for whatever reason."},{"startTime":1039.771,"endTime":1040.131,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1040.371,"endTime":1040.521,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1040.731,"endTime":1045.891,"body":"Um, I love the, the idea of safety"},{"startTime":1040.731,"endTime":1045.891,"body":"of, of, um, helping yourself and"},{"startTime":1045.891,"endTime":1050.301,"body":"helping others to feel safe because"},{"startTime":1045.891,"endTime":1050.301,"body":"in my head, what happened in my"},{"startTime":1050.301,"endTime":1052.581,"body":"head, in my whatever, what happens."},{"startTime":1053.196,"endTime":1056.706,"body":"When you feel unsafe as your energy"},{"startTime":1053.196,"endTime":1056.706,"body":"comes inwards and it goes into protective"},{"startTime":1056.706,"endTime":1061.266,"body":"and you can't then give out, you"},{"startTime":1056.706,"endTime":1061.266,"body":"can't expand, you can't do anything"},{"startTime":1061.271,"endTime":1066.006,"body":"because you are feeling unsafe and"},{"startTime":1061.271,"endTime":1066.006,"body":"your feeling of safety is paramount."},{"startTime":1066.066,"endTime":1067.686,"body":"It's the most important thing."},{"startTime":1068.106,"endTime":1072.846,"body":"And then once you start to feel safer,"},{"startTime":1068.106,"endTime":1072.846,"body":"it's exactly like you said, you can"},{"startTime":1072.906,"endTime":1079.506,"body":"talk about what you are feeling or"},{"startTime":1072.906,"endTime":1079.506,"body":"what's going on without necessarily then"},{"startTime":1079.506,"endTime":1084.426,"body":"becoming re-involved in the energy of"},{"startTime":1079.506,"endTime":1084.426,"body":"that potentially dangerous situation."},{"startTime":1084.786,"endTime":1084.846,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1084.876,"endTime":1090.936,"body":"So for me, you talking about safety is so"},{"startTime":1084.876,"endTime":1090.936,"body":"important and it's a lovely concept that"},{"startTime":1090.936,"endTime":1095.586,"body":"when you have somebody in the studio that"},{"startTime":1090.936,"endTime":1095.586,"body":"is going through something that this is"},{"startTime":1095.586,"endTime":1100.926,"body":"an, it's almost like, um, an extension"},{"startTime":1095.586,"endTime":1100.926,"body":"of helping them to feel in a safe space."},{"startTime":1101.646,"endTime":1101.766,"body":"Yep."},{"startTime":1102.396,"endTime":1102.786,"body":"Love that."},{"startTime":1103.626,"endTime":1106.826,"body":"I want say a little bit"},{"startTime":1103.626,"endTime":1106.826,"body":"about, um, somatic, because"},{"startTime":1106.826,"endTime":1108.396,"body":"I think it's quite important."},{"startTime":1109.866,"endTime":1112.866,"body":"Um, first of all, it's it"},{"startTime":1109.866,"endTime":1112.866,"body":"sounds like what you're saying."},{"startTime":1112.866,"endTime":1117.896,"body":"And it's certainly been my"},{"startTime":1112.866,"endTime":1117.896,"body":"experience is that, um, if you"},{"startTime":1117.896,"endTime":1120.726,"body":"are, you know, a cognitive person,"},{"startTime":1117.896,"endTime":1120.726,"body":"you, you know, you really like"},{"startTime":1120.726,"endTime":1122.136,"body":"digging and getting information."},{"startTime":1122.136,"endTime":1125.736,"body":"And we both love information that"},{"startTime":1122.136,"endTime":1125.736,"body":"when something happens, that's"},{"startTime":1125.736,"endTime":1127.226,"body":"upsetting, you start hunting."},{"startTime":1127.566,"endTime":1131.196,"body":"You're looking for reasons, you know,"},{"startTime":1127.566,"endTime":1131.196,"body":"it would be lovely for you if you could"},{"startTime":1131.196,"endTime":1134.826,"body":"have this conversation with someone"},{"startTime":1131.196,"endTime":1134.826,"body":"and talk, talk, talk, talk, talk."},{"startTime":1135.666,"endTime":1140.616,"body":"But in fact, what I found in my situation,"},{"startTime":1135.666,"endTime":1140.616,"body":"um, with the heart condition was"},{"startTime":1140.726,"endTime":1143.166,"body":"that that didn't make the difference."},{"startTime":1143.616,"endTime":1148.056,"body":"What did make the difference"},{"startTime":1143.616,"endTime":1148.056,"body":"was tuning into my body."},{"startTime":1148.506,"endTime":1149.636,"body":"So you're not tuning out."},{"startTime":1150.592,"endTime":1151.792,"body":"You're not suppressing."},{"startTime":1151.792,"endTime":1156.832,"body":"You're also not necessarily talk, talk,"},{"startTime":1151.792,"endTime":1156.832,"body":"talking, you're tuning into your body,"},{"startTime":1156.837,"endTime":1159.562,"body":"which allows you to feel I I'm here."},{"startTime":1160.282,"endTime":1162.082,"body":"And I think that's what"},{"startTime":1160.282,"endTime":1162.082,"body":"you're talking about."},{"startTime":1162.087,"endTime":1164.602,"body":"And it's actually a super powerful tool."},{"startTime":1164.607,"endTime":1165.112,"body":"Isn't it?"},{"startTime":1165.262,"endTime":1166.612,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"startTime":1166.612,"endTime":1171.892,"body":"So it's really about, um, yeah,"},{"startTime":1166.612,"endTime":1171.892,"body":"just, I think these days we can be"},{"startTime":1171.897,"endTime":1179.512,"body":"so removed from yeah, embodiment"},{"startTime":1171.897,"endTime":1179.512,"body":"in any shape type of form."},{"startTime":1179.572,"endTime":1183.172,"body":"I think where we're all living"},{"startTime":1179.572,"endTime":1183.172,"body":"in our heads quite a lot."},{"startTime":1183.232,"endTime":1186.952,"body":"It's probably also a sign of the times,"},{"startTime":1183.232,"endTime":1186.952,"body":"some people more than others, I think."},{"startTime":1186.982,"endTime":1189.532,"body":"Um, it's, it's what you"},{"startTime":1186.982,"endTime":1189.532,"body":"were describing there."},{"startTime":1189.592,"endTime":1191.662,"body":"Um, I fall into that bracket as well."},{"startTime":1191.662,"endTime":1196.012,"body":"I'm a thinker, so it's just,"},{"startTime":1191.662,"endTime":1196.012,"body":"um, the body always comes last."},{"startTime":1196.012,"endTime":1200.002,"body":"If that makes some sense and much"},{"startTime":1196.012,"endTime":1200.002,"body":"to my own detriment for a while."},{"startTime":1200.007,"endTime":1202.462,"body":"So I had to learn all"},{"startTime":1200.007,"endTime":1202.462,"body":"these things as well."},{"startTime":1202.462,"endTime":1202.912,"body":"I think."},{"startTime":1202.942,"endTime":1208.042,"body":"Um, every therapist probably is where"},{"startTime":1202.942,"endTime":1208.042,"body":"they are because, um, they, they want"},{"startTime":1208.042,"endTime":1211.912,"body":"to become the change they want to see,"},{"startTime":1208.042,"endTime":1211.912,"body":"whether that starts with themselves"},{"startTime":1211.912,"endTime":1214.712,"body":"or with other people around them."},{"startTime":1214.712,"endTime":1217.222,"body":"They've experienced and they"},{"startTime":1214.712,"endTime":1217.222,"body":"want to help or whatever."},{"startTime":1217.522,"endTime":1222.862,"body":"Um, so we all have a path in there,"},{"startTime":1217.522,"endTime":1222.862,"body":"but I think, um, it's sort of this"},{"startTime":1222.862,"endTime":1231.517,"body":"idea of befriending our bodies again"},{"startTime":1222.862,"endTime":1231.517,"body":"and allowing to just get a sense"},{"startTime":1231.517,"endTime":1237.067,"body":"for the physical experience, without"},{"startTime":1231.517,"endTime":1237.067,"body":"judging it straight away without"},{"startTime":1237.067,"endTime":1239.167,"body":"going, oh, this is potentially good."},{"startTime":1239.227,"endTime":1240.487,"body":"This is potentially bad."},{"startTime":1240.517,"endTime":1241.897,"body":"This is how it should be feeling."},{"startTime":1241.897,"endTime":1243.427,"body":"This is how it shouldn't be feeling."},{"startTime":1243.907,"endTime":1245.227,"body":"It just is."},{"startTime":1245.797,"endTime":1250.537,"body":"And it is probably for a good reason"},{"startTime":1245.797,"endTime":1250.537,"body":"if you know what I mean, whether"},{"startTime":1250.537,"endTime":1254.257,"body":"we like the sensation or not,"},{"startTime":1250.537,"endTime":1254.257,"body":"that's the different, um, feeling."},{"startTime":1254.617,"endTime":1259.837,"body":"But I think despite the fact that"},{"startTime":1254.617,"endTime":1259.837,"body":"there's maybe always physical"},{"startTime":1259.837,"endTime":1264.787,"body":"sensations where even after years of"},{"startTime":1259.837,"endTime":1264.787,"body":"practice  where we feel like no, I"},{"startTime":1264.787,"endTime":1266.797,"body":"could do without them, so to speak."},{"startTime":1270.097,"endTime":1273.667,"body":"they still, they lose"},{"startTime":1270.097,"endTime":1273.667,"body":"this tight grip over us."},{"startTime":1273.697,"endTime":1277.357,"body":"They lose this sort of like they"},{"startTime":1273.697,"endTime":1277.357,"body":"immediately set me into a panic."},{"startTime":1277.357,"endTime":1283.147,"body":"They immediately make me want to run off"},{"startTime":1277.357,"endTime":1283.147,"body":"or whatever it might be individually."},{"startTime":1283.147,"endTime":1285.967,"body":"We can just acknowledge they're there."},{"startTime":1286.747,"endTime":1291.127,"body":"And, um, we, for instance, in"},{"startTime":1286.747,"endTime":1291.127,"body":"acceptance and commitment therapy,"},{"startTime":1291.127,"endTime":1294.187,"body":"do something like that we call"},{"startTime":1291.127,"endTime":1294.187,"body":"diffusion if you know what I mean."},{"startTime":1294.187,"endTime":1299.677,"body":"Where we sort of step back from"},{"startTime":1294.187,"endTime":1299.677,"body":"the whole thought process that is"},{"startTime":1299.677,"endTime":1303.667,"body":"attached to physical sensations,"},{"startTime":1299.677,"endTime":1303.667,"body":"but also to our emotions where we"},{"startTime":1303.672,"endTime":1308.317,"body":"just, um, it's almost like being"},{"startTime":1303.672,"endTime":1308.317,"body":"the, sort of like the onlooker a tiny"},{"startTime":1308.322,"endTime":1312.397,"body":"bit, and that needs practice because"},{"startTime":1308.322,"endTime":1312.397,"body":"it's what Jeremy mentioned earlier."},{"startTime":1312.397,"endTime":1316.787,"body":"It's not easy to just like, get"},{"startTime":1312.397,"endTime":1316.787,"body":"yourself out of the, if you're in"},{"startTime":1316.787,"endTime":1319.727,"body":"the thick of it, if you know what"},{"startTime":1316.787,"endTime":1319.727,"body":"I mean, sort of to say like, woo,"},{"startTime":1319.907,"endTime":1321.377,"body":"okay, let's step back for a moment."},{"startTime":1321.617,"endTime":1324.017,"body":"But it's a skill that can be"},{"startTime":1321.617,"endTime":1324.017,"body":"practiced and learned like any."},{"startTime":1325.177,"endTime":1329.287,"body":"Um, one example that that is"},{"startTime":1325.177,"endTime":1329.287,"body":"really sort of always comes up."},{"startTime":1329.767,"endTime":1333.757,"body":"Um, and especially the parents"},{"startTime":1329.767,"endTime":1333.757,"body":"will understand that, for instance,"},{"startTime":1333.757,"endTime":1337.867,"body":"if you have very small children"},{"startTime":1333.757,"endTime":1337.867,"body":"and, um, sometimes you just feel"},{"startTime":1337.867,"endTime":1340.087,"body":"like, oh, if you know what I mean."},{"startTime":1340.087,"endTime":1344.977,"body":"And you learn to actually walk"},{"startTime":1340.087,"endTime":1344.977,"body":"away, even if they're crying"},{"startTime":1344.977,"endTime":1346.327,"body":"and if they want your attention."},{"startTime":1346.327,"endTime":1352.328,"body":"But you learn that you are so activated"},{"startTime":1346.327,"endTime":1352.328,"body":"and potentially so reactive that it is"},{"startTime":1352.333,"endTime":1356.287,"body":"actually safer to just lock the bathroom"},{"startTime":1352.333,"endTime":1356.287,"body":"door for five minutes, even if they're"},{"startTime":1356.287,"endTime":1358.537,"body":"standing outside crying, mommy, come back."},{"startTime":1359.047,"endTime":1363.637,"body":"So you can just go and breathe"},{"startTime":1359.047,"endTime":1363.637,"body":"and reassemble yourself and"},{"startTime":1363.637,"endTime":1365.567,"body":"then walk out and be calm."},{"startTime":1365.977,"endTime":1368.527,"body":"And that is a process"},{"startTime":1365.977,"endTime":1368.527,"body":"like with anything else."},{"startTime":1368.797,"endTime":1368.917,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1369.907,"endTime":1372.547,"body":"I wanna bring somebody else"},{"startTime":1369.907,"endTime":1372.547,"body":"into the conversation right now."},{"startTime":1373.087,"endTime":1377.167,"body":"We've had some questions sent in some"},{"startTime":1373.087,"endTime":1377.167,"body":"on speakpipe.com/VocalProcess, which is"},{"startTime":1377.167,"endTime":1380.737,"body":"where you can record a question, and some"},{"startTime":1377.167,"endTime":1380.737,"body":"have sent them in which I'll read out."},{"startTime":1380.737,"endTime":1383.797,"body":"But the first one I want to"},{"startTime":1380.737,"endTime":1383.797,"body":"bring up is Franka and Franka"},{"startTime":1383.797,"endTime":1386.347,"body":"has sent a, uh, a recording in."},{"startTime":1386.352,"endTime":1387.227,"body":"Here we go."},{"startTime":1388.027,"endTime":1388.387,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1388.387,"endTime":1391.837,"body":"I have a ton of questions for"},{"startTime":1388.387,"endTime":1391.837,"body":"Petra, but I'll start with this one."},{"startTime":1392.527,"endTime":1394.207,"body":"In my singing studio."},{"startTime":1394.207,"endTime":1399.667,"body":"I have a lot of avocational adult singers"},{"startTime":1394.207,"endTime":1399.667,"body":"who often are, uh, intelligent people,"},{"startTime":1399.667,"endTime":1404.887,"body":"but are not used to working with their"},{"startTime":1399.667,"endTime":1404.887,"body":"body and they can get very uncomfortable"},{"startTime":1404.892,"endTime":1410.167,"body":"when we start working on felt sense"},{"startTime":1404.892,"endTime":1410.167,"body":"or just mapping of the, of the body."},{"startTime":1410.747,"endTime":1413.274,"body":"You know, things that go"},{"startTime":1410.747,"endTime":1413.274,"body":"around around with singing."},{"startTime":1414.114,"endTime":1417.954,"body":"Um, and sometimes to an extent"},{"startTime":1414.114,"endTime":1417.954,"body":"where I feel that there is a lot"},{"startTime":1417.954,"endTime":1424.134,"body":"of anxiety, um, irritation when"},{"startTime":1417.954,"endTime":1424.134,"body":"it comes to feeling actually."},{"startTime":1424.494,"endTime":1427.794,"body":"And when people start feeling,"},{"startTime":1424.494,"endTime":1427.794,"body":"sometimes things come up."},{"startTime":1427.794,"endTime":1432.594,"body":"For instance, I had this woman"},{"startTime":1427.794,"endTime":1432.594,"body":"in my studio who was in tears"},{"startTime":1432.954,"endTime":1436.824,"body":"because she felt like, how am I"},{"startTime":1432.954,"endTime":1436.824,"body":"ever going to find my own voice?"},{"startTime":1437.064,"endTime":1439.974,"body":"So obviously there was a"},{"startTime":1437.064,"endTime":1439.974,"body":"little bit more going on there."},{"startTime":1440.304,"endTime":1445.524,"body":"And my question would be when can you,"},{"startTime":1440.304,"endTime":1445.524,"body":"as a singing teacher work with these"},{"startTime":1445.529,"endTime":1449.844,"body":"things, and when are you supposed"},{"startTime":1445.529,"endTime":1449.844,"body":"to hand it over to a professional?"},{"startTime":1450.234,"endTime":1452.884,"body":"What are the signs that"},{"startTime":1450.234,"endTime":1452.884,"body":"you're supposed to look for?"},{"startTime":1453.884,"endTime":1455.099,"body":"What a great question."},{"startTime":1455.229,"endTime":1455.959,"body":"Great question."},{"startTime":1455.959,"endTime":1456.899,"body":"What a great question."},{"startTime":1456.899,"endTime":1459.869,"body":"Franka always asks such"},{"startTime":1456.899,"endTime":1459.869,"body":"insightful questions."},{"startTime":1459.989,"endTime":1460.349,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1461.069,"endTime":1461.459,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":1461.459,"endTime":1462.869,"body":"Petra off you go."},{"startTime":1463.409,"endTime":1466.979,"body":"So, um, there are many sort"},{"startTime":1463.409,"endTime":1466.979,"body":"of aspects to this, obviously."},{"startTime":1466.979,"endTime":1471.689,"body":"So one would be, um, where we'd"},{"startTime":1466.979,"endTime":1471.689,"body":"always start with yourself again."},{"startTime":1472.109,"endTime":1476.489,"body":"Um, how comfortable are you"},{"startTime":1472.109,"endTime":1476.489,"body":"around these questions yourself?"},{"startTime":1476.969,"endTime":1481.079,"body":"Cause that's again, the sort of like"},{"startTime":1476.969,"endTime":1481.079,"body":"safe space and so on and so forth."},{"startTime":1481.109,"endTime":1487.879,"body":"Um, Maybe rightly so maybe wrongly so,"},{"startTime":1481.109,"endTime":1487.879,"body":"the student gets this idea that these"},{"startTime":1487.879,"endTime":1492.259,"body":"things make you uncomfortable, that sort"},{"startTime":1487.879,"endTime":1492.259,"body":"of can also turn into a feedback loop."},{"startTime":1492.649,"endTime":1497.449,"body":"And I just, um, want to say that"},{"startTime":1492.649,"endTime":1497.449,"body":"quite clear, clearly that's not meant"},{"startTime":1497.449,"endTime":1501.379,"body":"in a judgemental way in any way,"},{"startTime":1497.449,"endTime":1501.379,"body":"because it's totally fine for the"},{"startTime":1501.379,"endTime":1503.869,"body":"singing teacher to say, you know what?"},{"startTime":1503.959,"endTime":1509.179,"body":"I want to teach singing and I don't"},{"startTime":1503.959,"endTime":1509.179,"body":"want to get involved in anything else."},{"startTime":1509.329,"endTime":1510.679,"body":"That is your boundary."},{"startTime":1510.739,"endTime":1512.749,"body":"And that is totally fine."},{"startTime":1512.749,"endTime":1514.489,"body":"So, um, that is okay."},{"startTime":1514.789,"endTime":1517.279,"body":"Some people want to keep"},{"startTime":1514.789,"endTime":1517.279,"body":"that quite clean like that."},{"startTime":1517.279,"endTime":1521.509,"body":"And other people that boundary is more"},{"startTime":1517.279,"endTime":1521.509,"body":"permeable or whatever you want to call"},{"startTime":1521.509,"endTime":1523.129,"body":"it, where they feel like it's fine."},{"startTime":1523.129,"endTime":1525.079,"body":"And, and, um, I can hold that space."},{"startTime":1525.439,"endTime":1529.549,"body":"But if you, as a singing teacher and I'm"},{"startTime":1525.439,"endTime":1529.549,"body":"just talking to every singing teacher now,"},{"startTime":1529.549,"endTime":1535.544,"body":"obviously, um, feel that's not a place"},{"startTime":1529.549,"endTime":1535.544,"body":"I want to go to, that's absolutely fine."},{"startTime":1535.844,"endTime":1537.524,"body":"Um, so that would be the first thing."},{"startTime":1537.944,"endTime":1542.744,"body":"Um, the next thing would be, if"},{"startTime":1537.944,"endTime":1542.744,"body":"you already asked the question,"},{"startTime":1543.404,"endTime":1545.534,"body":"should I get involved in this?"},{"startTime":1546.074,"endTime":1547.784,"body":"Is this going a bit deeper?"},{"startTime":1547.874,"endTime":1548.684,"body":"Whatever?"},{"startTime":1549.494,"endTime":1553.784,"body":"Chances are that as a singing teacher,"},{"startTime":1549.494,"endTime":1553.784,"body":"you don't want to get involved."},{"startTime":1553.844,"endTime":1557.384,"body":"I would say, um, trust"},{"startTime":1553.844,"endTime":1557.384,"body":"your instinct there."},{"startTime":1557.384,"endTime":1563.444,"body":"If you feel like there's something"},{"startTime":1557.384,"endTime":1563.444,"body":"going on where I feel, maybe it's a"},{"startTime":1563.444,"endTime":1566.624,"body":"slippery slope because obviously you"},{"startTime":1563.444,"endTime":1566.624,"body":"don't want to go like, you know what?"},{"startTime":1566.624,"endTime":1567.944,"body":"You should see a therapist."},{"startTime":1567.949,"endTime":1569.684,"body":"I think that's a sentence."},{"startTime":1569.684,"endTime":1573.224,"body":"We shouldn't say that way"},{"startTime":1569.684,"endTime":1573.224,"body":"because that can feel very shame"},{"startTime":1573.224,"endTime":1575.084,"body":"inducing if we do it that way."},{"startTime":1575.144,"endTime":1579.374,"body":"Um, but if you already have"},{"startTime":1575.144,"endTime":1579.374,"body":"this feeling, there's something"},{"startTime":1579.374,"endTime":1580.874,"body":"out of the ordinary there."},{"startTime":1581.759,"endTime":1586.979,"body":"Chances are there might be, and"},{"startTime":1581.759,"endTime":1586.979,"body":"then it's just a question for you."},{"startTime":1587.369,"endTime":1589.229,"body":"How do I want to handle this?"},{"startTime":1589.229,"endTime":1592.409,"body":"And, um, there's different"},{"startTime":1589.229,"endTime":1592.409,"body":"aspects to that, obviously."},{"startTime":1592.409,"endTime":1597.749,"body":"So one thing, um, where I would say"},{"startTime":1592.409,"endTime":1597.749,"body":"it's a red flag for you as a teacher,"},{"startTime":1597.749,"endTime":1603.029,"body":"when you notice like, okay, this"},{"startTime":1597.749,"endTime":1603.029,"body":"is, um, someone who's becoming, not"},{"startTime":1603.029,"endTime":1605.189,"body":"just, they're not just annoyed today."},{"startTime":1605.189,"endTime":1608.939,"body":"They're not just, we all have the"},{"startTime":1605.189,"endTime":1608.939,"body":"situation that someone sings a"},{"startTime":1608.939,"endTime":1610.739,"body":"song and they burst into tears."},{"startTime":1610.739,"endTime":1613.709,"body":"That probably happen to ourselves"},{"startTime":1610.739,"endTime":1613.709,"body":"as well, because it's just"},{"startTime":1613.709,"endTime":1617.669,"body":"something, yeah, that brings up"},{"startTime":1613.709,"endTime":1617.669,"body":"emotions and that's totally fine."},{"startTime":1617.669,"endTime":1621.449,"body":"And although for the student to whom"},{"startTime":1617.669,"endTime":1621.449,"body":"that happens for the first time, it can"},{"startTime":1621.449,"endTime":1623.249,"body":"always feel that tiny bit embarrassing."},{"startTime":1623.609,"endTime":1626.789,"body":"I can still remember when that"},{"startTime":1623.609,"endTime":1626.789,"body":"happened to me and my singing teacher."},{"startTime":1626.789,"endTime":1627.839,"body":"And I was like, oh God."},{"startTime":1628.109,"endTime":1631.619,"body":"Um, so, but I think that's fine."},{"startTime":1631.619,"endTime":1634.559,"body":"And most of us are quite"},{"startTime":1631.619,"endTime":1634.559,"body":"well equipped to handle that."},{"startTime":1634.649,"endTime":1637.059,"body":"Um, because we've probably"},{"startTime":1634.649,"endTime":1637.059,"body":"been there ourselves."},{"startTime":1637.769,"endTime":1642.569,"body":"Um, But if you feel there's"},{"startTime":1637.769,"endTime":1642.569,"body":"something going on akin to, yeah,"},{"startTime":1642.569,"endTime":1645.479,"body":"they're leaving their window of"},{"startTime":1642.569,"endTime":1645.479,"body":"tolerance, let's call it that."},{"startTime":1645.839,"endTime":1650.279,"body":"Um, so by window of tolerance,"},{"startTime":1645.839,"endTime":1650.279,"body":"we're meaning if someone becomes"},{"startTime":1651.029,"endTime":1656.369,"body":"hyPER-aroused, so you start noticing"},{"startTime":1651.029,"endTime":1656.369,"body":"they're getting very agitated."},{"startTime":1656.449,"endTime":1659.729,"body":"Mm-hmm,  away from their normal baseline."},{"startTime":1659.759,"endTime":1663.389,"body":"We probably always know their"},{"startTime":1659.759,"endTime":1663.389,"body":"students who are naturally a bit"},{"startTime":1663.389,"endTime":1667.919,"body":"more, you know what I mean, a bit more"},{"startTime":1663.389,"endTime":1667.919,"body":"boisterous and a bit more out there."},{"startTime":1668.129,"endTime":1671.399,"body":"And there are the ones who are more"},{"startTime":1668.129,"endTime":1671.399,"body":"quiet and they maybe don't talk that"},{"startTime":1671.399,"endTime":1675.299,"body":"much, um, in between whatever else we're"},{"startTime":1671.399,"endTime":1675.299,"body":"doing with them and so on and so forth."},{"startTime":1675.629,"endTime":1681.059,"body":"So if you feel there's something different"},{"startTime":1675.629,"endTime":1681.059,"body":"from where their baseline normally"},{"startTime":1681.059,"endTime":1682.679,"body":"is, if you've known these people."},{"startTime":1683.519,"endTime":1684.599,"body":"At least a wee while."},{"startTime":1685.079,"endTime":1687.449,"body":"Um, that's always a red flag."},{"startTime":1687.449,"endTime":1691.799,"body":"So if they become very fidgety, if the"},{"startTime":1687.449,"endTime":1691.799,"body":"eyes start darting, if they maybe even"},{"startTime":1691.799,"endTime":1697.649,"body":"start sweating or something, if their"},{"startTime":1691.799,"endTime":1697.649,"body":"speech becomes very agitated, if they"},{"startTime":1697.649,"endTime":1701.339,"body":"maybe even get angry, if they start"},{"startTime":1697.649,"endTime":1701.339,"body":"shouting, if they start swearing, I"},{"startTime":1701.339,"endTime":1706.079,"body":"mean, maybe all experience these people"},{"startTime":1701.339,"endTime":1706.079,"body":"in our studio, um, who sort of, if"},{"startTime":1706.079,"endTime":1711.209,"body":"they struggle to handle their emotions,"},{"startTime":1706.079,"endTime":1711.209,"body":"who then go into a swearing fit or"},{"startTime":1711.209,"endTime":1714.179,"body":"something, again, there's people who"},{"startTime":1711.209,"endTime":1714.179,"body":"are naturally more sweary than others."},{"startTime":1714.989,"endTime":1717.539,"body":"So, as I said, always"},{"startTime":1714.989,"endTime":1717.539,"body":"look, um, at the baseline."},{"startTime":1718.424,"endTime":1722.024,"body":"Or the opposite if they"},{"startTime":1718.424,"endTime":1722.024,"body":"become hyPO-aroused."},{"startTime":1722.714,"endTime":1727.814,"body":"So if you feel like out of nowhere,"},{"startTime":1722.714,"endTime":1727.814,"body":"their energy is totally nose diving."},{"startTime":1728.084,"endTime":1731.894,"body":"So where you feel like this"},{"startTime":1728.084,"endTime":1731.894,"body":"doesn't seem what they're normally"},{"startTime":1731.894,"endTime":1734.114,"body":"like, this is not just tiredness."},{"startTime":1734.114,"endTime":1736.934,"body":"They maybe came in after"},{"startTime":1734.114,"endTime":1736.934,"body":"work or whatever it might be."},{"startTime":1737.204,"endTime":1740.924,"body":"So you really feel like there was"},{"startTime":1737.204,"endTime":1740.924,"body":"something going on in the teaching"},{"startTime":1740.924,"endTime":1745.034,"body":"situation, or maybe leading into the"},{"startTime":1740.924,"endTime":1745.034,"body":"teaching situation where they totally"},{"startTime":1745.034,"endTime":1747.224,"body":"start to retreat within themselves."},{"startTime":1747.224,"endTime":1750.764,"body":"And maybe they even start becoming"},{"startTime":1747.224,"endTime":1750.764,"body":"pale or something, or maybe they"},{"startTime":1750.914,"endTime":1754.184,"body":"all of a sudden say, I need to sit"},{"startTime":1750.914,"endTime":1754.184,"body":"down or, or something like that."},{"startTime":1754.214,"endTime":1758.144,"body":"And you feel it's not just a physical"},{"startTime":1754.214,"endTime":1758.144,"body":"component, it's sort of like that."},{"startTime":1758.174,"endTime":1761.294,"body":"There's something going on that"},{"startTime":1758.174,"endTime":1761.294,"body":"maybe triggered them in that way."},{"startTime":1761.294,"endTime":1767.804,"body":"So that would be something to watch"},{"startTime":1761.294,"endTime":1767.804,"body":"out for, in an acute situation."},{"startTime":1767.874,"endTime":1772.664,"body":"Mm-hmm . Um, but then there's"},{"startTime":1767.874,"endTime":1772.664,"body":"also, when we say like things we"},{"startTime":1772.664,"endTime":1777.704,"body":"maybe don't want to get involved"},{"startTime":1772.664,"endTime":1777.704,"body":"in if we spot ongoing patterns."},{"startTime":1778.334,"endTime":1784.484,"body":"Um, so for instance, if someone seems"},{"startTime":1778.334,"endTime":1784.484,"body":"incredibly low for a really long"},{"startTime":1784.489,"endTime":1789.194,"body":"amount of time, or if you feel like"},{"startTime":1784.489,"endTime":1789.194,"body":"their moods are really fluctuating"},{"startTime":1789.194,"endTime":1795.824,"body":"quite a lot, again, away from the"},{"startTime":1789.194,"endTime":1795.824,"body":"baseline that you experience with them."},{"startTime":1796.364,"endTime":1802.244,"body":"If they only want to talk all the"},{"startTime":1796.364,"endTime":1802.244,"body":"time, If every session is just"},{"startTime":1802.244,"endTime":1807.344,"body":"like, I need to offload whatever's"},{"startTime":1802.244,"endTime":1807.344,"body":"going on in my private life."},{"startTime":1807.344,"endTime":1811.304,"body":"And if they sort of like, I don't"},{"startTime":1807.344,"endTime":1811.304,"body":"wanna say push you because they don't"},{"startTime":1811.309,"endTime":1812.984,"body":"mean it in a bad way, obviously."},{"startTime":1812.984,"endTime":1817.484,"body":"But if you feel like they try"},{"startTime":1812.984,"endTime":1817.484,"body":"to pull you into this counselor,"},{"startTime":1817.484,"endTime":1821.474,"body":"confidante, been there!, um,"},{"startTime":1817.484,"endTime":1821.474,"body":"thing, if you know what I mean?"},{"startTime":1821.474,"endTime":1826.274,"body":"So, um, that would be something"},{"startTime":1821.474,"endTime":1826.274,"body":"where I would also say maybe not."},{"startTime":1826.274,"endTime":1831.224,"body":"Or the very obvious thing, if you notice"},{"startTime":1826.274,"endTime":1831.224,"body":"there's something going on that, um, in"},{"startTime":1831.224,"endTime":1835.334,"body":"the way they talk, you, you are worried"},{"startTime":1831.224,"endTime":1835.334,"body":"about their safety or if they talk about"},{"startTime":1835.334,"endTime":1838.554,"body":"self-harming or other things, obviously."},{"startTime":1838.854,"endTime":1844.124,"body":"But I think that doesn't happen that"},{"startTime":1838.854,"endTime":1844.124,"body":"commonly, if you know what I mean, they"},{"startTime":1844.124,"endTime":1849.284,"body":"need to be already quite, yeah, severely"},{"startTime":1844.124,"endTime":1849.284,"body":"down to sort of go with that path."},{"startTime":1849.284,"endTime":1850.514,"body":"But that goes without saying."},{"startTime":1850.514,"endTime":1856.124,"body":"If someone mentions, um, self-harm or"},{"startTime":1850.514,"endTime":1856.124,"body":"suicidal ideation or whatever, then"},{"startTime":1856.154,"endTime":1860.234,"body":"that's always something where you"},{"startTime":1856.154,"endTime":1860.234,"body":"need to get someone else involved."},{"startTime":1860.264,"endTime":1864.974,"body":"If you're in a school environment, talk"},{"startTime":1860.264,"endTime":1864.974,"body":"to whatever school counselor might be"},{"startTime":1865.194,"endTime":1870.944,"body":"there or whatever, if you're a private"},{"startTime":1865.194,"endTime":1870.944,"body":"teacher and that's obviously much more"},{"startTime":1870.944,"endTime":1877.754,"body":"tricky, I always tend to tell people"},{"startTime":1870.944,"endTime":1877.754,"body":"have a list of people you trust."},{"startTime":1878.024,"endTime":1878.174,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1878.204,"endTime":1882.794,"body":"Psychotherapists or whatever, but"},{"startTime":1878.204,"endTime":1882.794,"body":"try to avoid the thing, \"you know"},{"startTime":1882.824,"endTime":1884.894,"body":"what I think you should see someone\"."},{"startTime":1884.894,"endTime":1887.114,"body":"That is really a last resort."},{"startTime":1887.114,"endTime":1891.224,"body":"I would say, because as I said, it"},{"startTime":1887.114,"endTime":1891.224,"body":"can be shame inducing, although it"},{"startTime":1891.224,"endTime":1895.784,"body":"might get so severe that you have to"},{"startTime":1891.224,"endTime":1895.784,"body":"say just for their own safety as well."},{"startTime":1895.789,"endTime":1899.624,"body":"But, um, I would always hold off"},{"startTime":1895.789,"endTime":1899.624,"body":"of that for as long as you can."},{"startTime":1899.624,"endTime":1902.174,"body":"But maybe make it part of"},{"startTime":1899.624,"endTime":1902.174,"body":"your onboarding process."},{"startTime":1902.594,"endTime":1908.129,"body":"But you say, I have a list here of"},{"startTime":1902.594,"endTime":1908.129,"body":"massage therapists, physiotherapists,"},{"startTime":1908.339,"endTime":1913.079,"body":"psychotherapists, all people who know"},{"startTime":1908.339,"endTime":1913.079,"body":"how to work with performers who have long"},{"startTime":1913.079,"endTime":1915.539,"body":"experience working with people like that."},{"startTime":1915.899,"endTime":1919.649,"body":"So if ever you feel there's anything"},{"startTime":1915.899,"endTime":1919.649,"body":"going on in one of these areas, these"},{"startTime":1919.649,"endTime":1925.244,"body":"are people I trust and, um, I'm sure they"},{"startTime":1919.649,"endTime":1925.244,"body":"would be able to support you essentially."},{"startTime":1925.244,"endTime":1925.404,"body":"So."},{"startTime":1925.404,"endTime":1925.824,"body":"That's very nice."},{"startTime":1925.824,"endTime":1927.209,"body":"I love that, actually."},{"startTime":1927.209,"endTime":1929.969,"body":"I think we should, we should"},{"startTime":1927.209,"endTime":1929.969,"body":"create one for our teachers."},{"startTime":1929.969,"endTime":1930.329,"body":"We should."},{"startTime":1930.379,"endTime":1931.419,"body":"Yes, we will."},{"startTime":1931.419,"endTime":1931.659,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1931.769,"endTime":1938.084,"body":"And I think, um, It's difficult"},{"startTime":1931.769,"endTime":1938.084,"body":"because, you know, we require empathy"},{"startTime":1938.084,"endTime":1940.364,"body":"in order to be able to teach at all."},{"startTime":1940.844,"endTime":1946.904,"body":"Then we start to feel empathic towards"},{"startTime":1940.844,"endTime":1946.904,"body":"the client in their distress, and"},{"startTime":1946.909,"endTime":1949.274,"body":"that's when we want to intervene."},{"startTime":1949.304,"endTime":1953.954,"body":"And it took me quite a long"},{"startTime":1949.304,"endTime":1953.954,"body":"time to learn that that actually"},{"startTime":1953.954,"endTime":1955.574,"body":"wasn't appropriate there."},{"startTime":1955.574,"endTime":1959.744,"body":"Sometimes clients do need to talk"},{"startTime":1955.574,"endTime":1959.744,"body":"a lot and they may actually be"},{"startTime":1959.804,"endTime":1964.634,"body":"talking about their concerns and"},{"startTime":1959.804,"endTime":1964.634,"body":"worries really about their voice, in"},{"startTime":1964.634,"endTime":1966.524,"body":"which case I will stop and listen."},{"startTime":1966.529,"endTime":1969.584,"body":"And I kind of pick up the things"},{"startTime":1966.529,"endTime":1969.584,"body":"that I can then work with."},{"startTime":1970.374,"endTime":1975.254,"body":"Um, but it's, it's quite hard to, to"},{"startTime":1970.374,"endTime":1975.254,"body":"know what that boundary is, isn't it?"},{"startTime":1975.254,"endTime":1978.224,"body":"There's something very specific"},{"startTime":1975.254,"endTime":1978.224,"body":"and I love it because the"},{"startTime":1978.224,"endTime":1980.234,"body":"analyst in me goes love this."},{"startTime":1981.089,"endTime":1983.474,"body":"Um, you are talking about"},{"startTime":1981.089,"endTime":1983.474,"body":"a baseline all the time."},{"startTime":1983.474,"endTime":1990.094,"body":"And again, what this means for me is that"},{"startTime":1983.474,"endTime":1990.094,"body":"you, you analyze your client, if you like"},{"startTime":1990.094,"endTime":1993.154,"body":"to know where their quotes \"norm\" is."},{"startTime":1994.054,"endTime":1997.894,"body":"Um, and what you're talking about,"},{"startTime":1994.054,"endTime":1997.894,"body":"the signals, if you like are, when you"},{"startTime":1997.894,"endTime":2002.604,"body":"spot something that you think might"},{"startTime":1997.894,"endTime":2002.604,"body":"be well outside their norm mm-hmm."},{"startTime":2003.324,"endTime":2007.614,"body":"So it's like you said, when people"},{"startTime":2003.324,"endTime":2007.614,"body":"are showing strong emotions that"},{"startTime":2008.004,"endTime":2013.104,"body":"seem to be ongoing or they seem"},{"startTime":2008.004,"endTime":2013.104,"body":"to be well outside what they would"},{"startTime":2013.104,"endTime":2014.904,"body":"normally be, uh, in your judgment."},{"startTime":2015.354,"endTime":2015.504,"body":"Yep."},{"startTime":2015.714,"endTime":2019.074,"body":"And I think that's really fascinating"},{"startTime":2015.714,"endTime":2019.074,"body":"because again, I love the idea"},{"startTime":2019.074,"endTime":2023.274,"body":"that we are always analyzing what"},{"startTime":2019.074,"endTime":2023.274,"body":"we hear and what we see and what"},{"startTime":2023.274,"endTime":2025.194,"body":"we feel and what we experience."},{"startTime":2025.554,"endTime":2029.844,"body":"And you are essentially, I mean,"},{"startTime":2025.554,"endTime":2029.844,"body":"you know, people hate this, but you"},{"startTime":2029.844,"endTime":2033.831,"body":"are essentially categorizing people"},{"startTime":2029.844,"endTime":2033.831,"body":"and what you are really looking for."},{"startTime":2033.836,"endTime":2036.021,"body":"It's like when I sightread, I"},{"startTime":2033.836,"endTime":2036.021,"body":"don't just read the, I don't"},{"startTime":2036.021,"endTime":2036.981,"body":"read the notes, actually."},{"startTime":2036.981,"endTime":2039.621,"body":"I just look for the things"},{"startTime":2036.981,"endTime":2039.621,"body":"that aren't usually there."},{"startTime":2040.321,"endTime":2043.951,"body":"So I look for extra accidentals or"},{"startTime":2040.321,"endTime":2043.951,"body":"weird chords or anything like that."},{"startTime":2043.951,"endTime":2045.421,"body":"And then I can home in on that."},{"startTime":2045.991,"endTime":2049.861,"body":"And what you're saying is that you"},{"startTime":2045.991,"endTime":2049.861,"body":"have an idea of your client and, and"},{"startTime":2049.866,"endTime":2054.241,"body":"the sort of general type of person,"},{"startTime":2049.866,"endTime":2054.241,"body":"general type of behavior, and you are"},{"startTime":2054.241,"endTime":2058.351,"body":"looking for things that are out of the"},{"startTime":2054.241,"endTime":2058.351,"body":"ordinary and going, is this my remit?"},{"startTime":2058.921,"endTime":2059.041,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2059.791,"endTime":2061.711,"body":"Well, that's why we keep client notes."},{"startTime":2061.891,"endTime":2063.271,"body":"Yes, we have to."},{"startTime":2063.271,"endTime":2064.261,"body":"Exactly, exactly."},{"startTime":2064.261,"endTime":2068.067,"body":"And, and it's not, as you said, it's"},{"startTime":2064.261,"endTime":2068.067,"body":"not about being about them and, you"},{"startTime":2068.072,"endTime":2072.597,"body":"know, pigeonholing and, you know, we're"},{"startTime":2068.072,"endTime":2072.597,"body":"not experts in, in, uh, the region of"},{"startTime":2072.602,"endTime":2076.527,"body":"psychology, but you do pick up things"},{"startTime":2072.602,"endTime":2076.527,"body":"about people's energy, don't you, and"},{"startTime":2076.587,"endTime":2081.027,"body":"suddenly, as you said, if they become"},{"startTime":2076.587,"endTime":2081.027,"body":"very fidgety and avoiding things and"},{"startTime":2081.427,"endTime":2085.227,"body":"constantly pushing, maybe towards a"},{"startTime":2081.427,"endTime":2085.227,"body":"certain outcome, and then you have"},{"startTime":2085.232,"endTime":2088.737,"body":"the sense that maybe they're avoiding"},{"startTime":2085.232,"endTime":2088.737,"body":"doing the work that they need to."},{"startTime":2088.817,"endTime":2093.507,"body":"I mean, I think we certainly had a"},{"startTime":2088.817,"endTime":2093.507,"body":"client in that situation and there was"},{"startTime":2093.507,"endTime":2098.157,"body":"something going on and we were fortunately"},{"startTime":2093.507,"endTime":2098.157,"body":"able to sign post it and flag on."},{"startTime":2098.502,"endTime":2101.352,"body":"Mm, there's something else as well,"},{"startTime":2098.502,"endTime":2101.352,"body":"which I think is really interesting,"},{"startTime":2101.352,"endTime":2109.302,"body":"which is if let's say the behavior takes"},{"startTime":2101.352,"endTime":2109.302,"body":"them away from the singing for so long."},{"startTime":2109.392,"endTime":2109.422,"body":"Mm."},{"startTime":2110.172,"endTime":2115.182,"body":"Because your job, whatever else you"},{"startTime":2110.172,"endTime":2115.182,"body":"do, your job is singing teaching."},{"startTime":2115.722,"endTime":2120.642,"body":"So if that person is just not singing or"},{"startTime":2115.722,"endTime":2120.642,"body":"is singing two words and then stopping"},{"startTime":2120.642,"endTime":2124.242,"body":"and talking for 10 minutes, there,"},{"startTime":2120.642,"endTime":2124.242,"body":"there's something there that you go,"},{"startTime":2124.272,"endTime":2126.852,"body":"my job is this, my job is not that."},{"startTime":2127.542,"endTime":2130.902,"body":"So if it's not, whether, because"},{"startTime":2127.542,"endTime":2130.902,"body":"sometimes people come in, you know,"},{"startTime":2130.902,"endTime":2134.172,"body":"if, if I give an hour session, very"},{"startTime":2130.902,"endTime":2134.172,"body":"occasionally I've had somebody talk for"},{"startTime":2134.177,"endTime":2137.532,"body":"45 minutes because they've needed to,"},{"startTime":2134.177,"endTime":2137.532,"body":"and it's a safe space and all of that."},{"startTime":2137.892,"endTime":2140.112,"body":"And then we get back to the"},{"startTime":2137.892,"endTime":2140.112,"body":"singing and it works really well."},{"startTime":2140.142,"endTime":2143.892,"body":"Mm-hmm I think the difficulty is when"},{"startTime":2140.142,"endTime":2143.892,"body":"somebody does something like that, but"},{"startTime":2143.892,"endTime":2145.602,"body":"they don't get back to the singing."},{"startTime":2145.602,"endTime":2146.382,"body":"Mm-hmm yeah."},{"startTime":2146.592,"endTime":2151.002,"body":"And then you, you are becoming,"},{"startTime":2146.592,"endTime":2151.002,"body":"uh, an outlet for them that"},{"startTime":2151.007,"endTime":2153.312,"body":"is not to do with your role."},{"startTime":2154.712,"endTime":2156.772,"body":"And I think that's a really important one."},{"startTime":2157.422,"endTime":2158.322,"body":"That is important."},{"startTime":2158.322,"endTime":2162.552,"body":"I mean, this is where we get into this"},{"startTime":2158.322,"endTime":2162.552,"body":"whole area of, of scope of practice and"},{"startTime":2162.552,"endTime":2167.862,"body":"also protecting yourself essentially,"},{"startTime":2162.552,"endTime":2167.862,"body":"because, um, we're obviously meaning well,"},{"startTime":2167.862,"endTime":2171.552,"body":"and I would say that most people who are"},{"startTime":2167.862,"endTime":2171.552,"body":"in the teaching profession in the widest"},{"startTime":2171.557,"endTime":2174.912,"body":"sense are empathetic people by default."},{"startTime":2175.002,"endTime":2178.722,"body":"I think otherwise we probably"},{"startTime":2175.002,"endTime":2178.722,"body":"wouldn't be doing this job."},{"startTime":2179.262,"endTime":2184.752,"body":"Um, and it's, it's very hard to sort of,"},{"startTime":2179.262,"endTime":2184.752,"body":"because you don't want to hurt people."},{"startTime":2184.992,"endTime":2188.952,"body":"It's this constant thinking like, no, but"},{"startTime":2184.992,"endTime":2188.952,"body":"if I say something, oh, they might take"},{"startTime":2188.952,"endTime":2190.872,"body":"it the wrong way and so on and so forth."},{"startTime":2191.232,"endTime":2196.392,"body":"So that takes a bit of practice and skill"},{"startTime":2191.232,"endTime":2196.392,"body":"as well to start doing that in a thing."},{"startTime":2196.692,"endTime":2202.302,"body":"I mean, let's say it quite frankly,"},{"startTime":2196.692,"endTime":2202.302,"body":"there is no way you can guarantee"},{"startTime":2202.752,"endTime":2209.062,"body":"that someone doesn't take your words"},{"startTime":2202.752,"endTime":2209.062,"body":"personally, no matter how well you try"},{"startTime":2209.062,"endTime":2215.422,"body":"to frame it and how, um, unoffensive"},{"startTime":2209.062,"endTime":2215.422,"body":"you try to be and whatever else, there"},{"startTime":2215.422,"endTime":2221.182,"body":"will always be that one person who will"},{"startTime":2215.422,"endTime":2221.182,"body":"still find offense at what you're saying."},{"startTime":2221.182,"endTime":2227.122,"body":"So it's, it's not possible to sort of"},{"startTime":2221.182,"endTime":2227.122,"body":"eliminate that risk entirely, but there"},{"startTime":2227.122,"endTime":2232.432,"body":"are obviously ways to communicate that,"},{"startTime":2227.122,"endTime":2232.432,"body":"bring that risk down a tiny bit, and"},{"startTime":2232.437,"endTime":2238.312,"body":"that comes down again to holding space"},{"startTime":2232.437,"endTime":2238.312,"body":"and giving that client the feeling I"},{"startTime":2238.312,"endTime":2242.937,"body":"hear you and I get a sense of that."},{"startTime":2242.937,"endTime":2247.827,"body":"You're maybe going through a hard time"},{"startTime":2242.937,"endTime":2247.827,"body":"at the moment or whatever, but this is"},{"startTime":2247.857,"endTime":2250.737,"body":"outside my scope of practice, essentially."},{"startTime":2251.007,"endTime":2256.407,"body":"And to then learn to gently steer"},{"startTime":2251.007,"endTime":2256.407,"body":"the conversation or the work"},{"startTime":2256.707,"endTime":2258.867,"body":"back to where you want it to be."},{"startTime":2258.867,"endTime":2264.207,"body":"So if someone talks a lot, sometimes just,"},{"startTime":2258.867,"endTime":2264.207,"body":"um, really a little relief and, and me,"},{"startTime":2264.207,"endTime":2268.257,"body":"we all have students who, who are maybe"},{"startTime":2264.207,"endTime":2268.257,"body":"where we know, okay, they need their"},{"startTime":2268.262,"endTime":2271.197,"body":"10 minutes at the start to just arrive."},{"startTime":2271.197,"endTime":2271.947,"body":"If you know what I mean."},{"startTime":2272.037,"endTime":2274.317,"body":"And I don't have a problem with that."},{"startTime":2274.317,"endTime":2277.827,"body":"If I know that's just how they"},{"startTime":2274.317,"endTime":2277.827,"body":"take, because I know that for"},{"startTime":2277.827,"endTime":2280.947,"body":"the rest of the session, the"},{"startTime":2277.827,"endTime":2280.947,"body":"session will be more productive."},{"startTime":2281.307,"endTime":2281.667,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":2281.877,"endTime":2283.077,"body":"If they can do that."},{"startTime":2283.407,"endTime":2286.837,"body":"So this is related to this topic, and"},{"startTime":2283.407,"endTime":2286.837,"body":"this is a second question from Franka."},{"startTime":2287.187,"endTime":2291.777,"body":"\"What can we as singing teachers do"},{"startTime":2287.187,"endTime":2291.777,"body":"to make our studios a safe Haven for"},{"startTime":2291.777,"endTime":2293.967,"body":"those who might have experienced trauma?"},{"startTime":2294.837,"endTime":2298.287,"body":"And I mean, hands on tips and"},{"startTime":2294.837,"endTime":2298.287,"body":"tricks, since we never know upfront,"},{"startTime":2298.287,"endTime":2301.407,"body":"if a client might suffer from"},{"startTime":2298.287,"endTime":2301.407,"body":"trauma, we need to be prepared."},{"startTime":2301.407,"endTime":2302.607,"body":"This may be the case.\""},{"startTime":2304.842,"endTime":2308.622,"body":"Well, if you know me, you"},{"startTime":2304.842,"endTime":2308.622,"body":"know, that I always bristle"},{"startTime":2308.622,"endTime":2311.022,"body":"at hacks and tips and tricks."},{"startTime":2311.202,"endTime":2311.292,"body":"Yep."},{"startTime":2311.922,"endTime":2316.182,"body":"Because I think that that, um,"},{"startTime":2311.922,"endTime":2316.182,"body":"comes with the job as well, because"},{"startTime":2316.187,"endTime":2318.312,"body":"it's such an individual thing."},{"startTime":2318.342,"endTime":2322.812,"body":"And, um, obviously you always need"},{"startTime":2318.342,"endTime":2322.812,"body":"to look, um, at the person in front"},{"startTime":2322.817,"endTime":2327.012,"body":"of you, but there's certainly things"},{"startTime":2322.817,"endTime":2327.012,"body":"we can do in a more general way"},{"startTime":2327.012,"endTime":2330.132,"body":"to make our  studios safer spaces."},{"startTime":2330.762,"endTime":2338.357,"body":"And again, that starts with our own"},{"startTime":2330.762,"endTime":2338.357,"body":"inner work, I would say, so that we can"},{"startTime":2338.357,"endTime":2345.107,"body":"be the container to hold space that we"},{"startTime":2338.357,"endTime":2345.107,"body":"yeah, maybe sort of look at our own."},{"startTime":2345.107,"endTime":2349.817,"body":"I always like to call them building"},{"startTime":2345.107,"endTime":2349.817,"body":"sites as well, along all the"},{"startTime":2349.817,"endTime":2351.707,"body":"professional development that we do."},{"startTime":2352.157,"endTime":2355.997,"body":"Um, I sometimes joke about this, but"},{"startTime":2352.157,"endTime":2355.997,"body":"I'm actually not, I'm quite serious."},{"startTime":2355.997,"endTime":2360.617,"body":"I think every singing teacher"},{"startTime":2355.997,"endTime":2360.617,"body":"should just take a therapy session."},{"startTime":2360.707,"endTime":2364.637,"body":"Not because something is wrong"},{"startTime":2360.707,"endTime":2364.637,"body":"in big quotation marks, but just"},{"startTime":2364.637,"endTime":2369.612,"body":"as like, we take a general health"},{"startTime":2364.637,"endTime":2369.612,"body":"checkup, like an mot to just talk"},{"startTime":2369.612,"endTime":2371.472,"body":"through things, see what's coming up."},{"startTime":2371.502,"endTime":2376.152,"body":"Whatever, if there's anything we"},{"startTime":2371.502,"endTime":2376.152,"body":"maybe want to work on or just as"},{"startTime":2376.152,"endTime":2378.402,"body":"some sort of self-care as well."},{"startTime":2378.402,"endTime":2379.902,"body":"So that would be one."},{"startTime":2381.457,"endTime":2386.107,"body":"So start working on yourself,"},{"startTime":2381.457,"endTime":2386.107,"body":"if you are willing to do that."},{"startTime":2386.257,"endTime":2389.557,"body":"And I think everyone should be"},{"startTime":2386.257,"endTime":2389.557,"body":"willing to do that, obviously,"},{"startTime":2389.557,"endTime":2391.957,"body":"because that's where safety starts."},{"startTime":2392.377,"endTime":2398.137,"body":"Um, to know that we have our own things"},{"startTime":2392.377,"endTime":2398.137,"body":"going on, that we sometimes do take them"},{"startTime":2398.137,"endTime":2404.424,"body":"in the studio and that we may want to"},{"startTime":2398.137,"endTime":2404.424,"body":"start to slowly navigate away from that."},{"startTime":2405.094,"endTime":2409.994,"body":"I think one really important thing"},{"startTime":2405.094,"endTime":2409.994,"body":"is what are my own comfort levels"},{"startTime":2411.094,"endTime":2414.094,"body":"with invitation versus direction."},{"startTime":2415.584,"endTime":2416.074,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":2416.074,"endTime":2418.584,"body":"Tell us more about that."},{"startTime":2419.484,"endTime":2425.164,"body":"I think as teachers, um, some"},{"startTime":2419.484,"endTime":2425.164,"body":"more so than others, we're, we're"},{"startTime":2425.164,"endTime":2428.974,"body":"sometimes falling into the habit, do"},{"startTime":2425.164,"endTime":2428.974,"body":"it this way and so on and so forth."},{"startTime":2429.034,"endTime":2432.184,"body":"And this is the way to do it,"},{"startTime":2429.034,"endTime":2432.184,"body":"as I said some more than others."},{"startTime":2432.244,"endTime":2438.434,"body":"Um, and I think if you're thinking"},{"startTime":2432.244,"endTime":2438.434,"body":"of a trauma survivor, as Franka"},{"startTime":2438.454,"endTime":2440.464,"body":"already pointed out, quite rightly so."},{"startTime":2440.464,"endTime":2443.704,"body":"You never know if one is"},{"startTime":2440.464,"endTime":2443.704,"body":"standing in front of you."},{"startTime":2444.184,"endTime":2448.144,"body":"So, um, because some people don't"},{"startTime":2444.184,"endTime":2448.144,"body":"even know themselves that has"},{"startTime":2448.144,"endTime":2451.954,"body":"to be said, and some people are"},{"startTime":2448.144,"endTime":2451.954,"body":"used to hiding it quite well."},{"startTime":2452.314,"endTime":2456.394,"body":"So you can't just look at a person"},{"startTime":2452.314,"endTime":2456.394,"body":"and go like, oh yeah, they've"},{"startTime":2456.394,"endTime":2457.684,"body":"probably experienced trauma."},{"startTime":2457.684,"endTime":2461.824,"body":"So, um, it, it unfortunately, or maybe"},{"startTime":2457.684,"endTime":2461.824,"body":"fortunately depends on how you're"},{"startTime":2461.824,"endTime":2463.234,"body":"looking at it doesn't work that way."},{"startTime":2464.044,"endTime":2472.144,"body":"Um, but what can be triggering for a"},{"startTime":2464.044,"endTime":2472.144,"body":"lot of people who have survived traumas,"},{"startTime":2472.804,"endTime":2482.014,"body":"one sort, or the other is if they're"},{"startTime":2472.804,"endTime":2482.014,"body":"being told what to do, because the very"},{"startTime":2482.014,"endTime":2487.384,"body":"essence of a traumatic experience is that"},{"startTime":2482.014,"endTime":2487.384,"body":"you had no choice, that choice has been"},{"startTime":2487.384,"endTime":2492.844,"body":"taken away from you, that you were In"},{"startTime":2487.384,"endTime":2492.844,"body":"a situation where there was no way out,"},{"startTime":2492.904,"endTime":2494.974,"body":"whatever that was for you personally."},{"startTime":2495.814,"endTime":2501.094,"body":"And the smallest things that we"},{"startTime":2495.814,"endTime":2501.094,"body":"maybe don't even think about twice"},{"startTime":2501.634,"endTime":2506.584,"body":"can bring this sensation of immense"},{"startTime":2501.634,"endTime":2506.584,"body":"helplessness and shame, and maybe"},{"startTime":2506.589,"endTime":2509.794,"body":"even feelings of guilt back up again."},{"startTime":2509.854,"endTime":2515.584,"body":"So if someone feels like I'm being told"},{"startTime":2509.854,"endTime":2515.584,"body":"to do this, and I have no choice and I"},{"startTime":2515.584,"endTime":2522.154,"body":"maybe feel like I can't do it, but that's"},{"startTime":2515.584,"endTime":2522.154,"body":"the person in the know, and I'm sabotaging"},{"startTime":2522.154,"endTime":2523.594,"body":"my own session here or something."},{"startTime":2523.594,"endTime":2526.984,"body":"These are the thoughts that"},{"startTime":2523.594,"endTime":2526.984,"body":"come up for people like that."},{"startTime":2527.314,"endTime":2530.224,"body":"So that's why I would always say,"},{"startTime":2527.314,"endTime":2530.224,"body":"and this is sometimes just such a"},{"startTime":2530.224,"endTime":2536.854,"body":"small change to actually extend an"},{"startTime":2530.224,"endTime":2536.854,"body":"invitation to people, to do things,"},{"startTime":2537.334,"endTime":2540.214,"body":"instead of telling them do this."},{"startTime":2540.634,"endTime":2542.194,"body":"So instead of saying."},{"startTime":2543.004,"endTime":2544.024,"body":"Close your eyes."},{"startTime":2544.024,"endTime":2547.444,"body":"For instance, this is a big one"},{"startTime":2544.024,"endTime":2547.444,"body":"by the way, because that can be"},{"startTime":2547.534,"endTime":2549.094,"body":"immensely triggering for people."},{"startTime":2549.094,"endTime":2554.134,"body":"So if you're using mindfulness"},{"startTime":2549.094,"endTime":2554.134,"body":"techniques or whatever in your studio,"},{"startTime":2554.914,"endTime":2558.754,"body":"be careful with just telling people"},{"startTime":2554.914,"endTime":2558.754,"body":"to close their eyes, essentially."},{"startTime":2559.294,"endTime":2560.524,"body":"Um, so."},{"startTime":2561.409,"endTime":2564.019,"body":"Just to ask sort of like,"},{"startTime":2561.409,"endTime":2564.019,"body":"how does it feel for you?"},{"startTime":2564.019,"endTime":2565.609,"body":"Does it feel okay to close your eyes?"},{"startTime":2565.609,"endTime":2570.889,"body":"If not keep them open, do whatever"},{"startTime":2565.609,"endTime":2570.889,"body":"feels right in this particular moment,"},{"startTime":2570.889,"endTime":2574.879,"body":"because that gives them a choice that"},{"startTime":2570.889,"endTime":2574.879,"body":"gives them a choice to go into that"},{"startTime":2574.879,"endTime":2577.879,"body":"situation in any way they see fit."},{"startTime":2578.744,"endTime":2584.354,"body":"And then by that you're building trust and"},{"startTime":2578.744,"endTime":2584.354,"body":"then they might be more willing to later"},{"startTime":2584.354,"endTime":2587.264,"body":"on, maybe try something else as well."},{"startTime":2587.264,"endTime":2591.674,"body":"So that, so I would say invitation"},{"startTime":2587.264,"endTime":2591.674,"body":"versus direction, and that"},{"startTime":2591.674,"endTime":2593.534,"body":"is a learning curve, I think."},{"startTime":2593.744,"endTime":2597.374,"body":"Um, because sometimes we, as teachers,"},{"startTime":2593.744,"endTime":2597.374,"body":"we can feel frustrated as well."},{"startTime":2598.034,"endTime":2601.334,"body":"I think what's so interesting about"},{"startTime":2598.034,"endTime":2601.334,"body":"that is first of all, that's so clear."},{"startTime":2601.334,"endTime":2604.994,"body":"It's a very clear definition"},{"startTime":2601.334,"endTime":2604.994,"body":"that you had no choice."},{"startTime":2605.054,"endTime":2610.154,"body":"And also, um, it's a very"},{"startTime":2605.054,"endTime":2610.154,"body":"apparently simple change that"},{"startTime":2610.154,"endTime":2611.384,"body":"you, as the teacher can make."},{"startTime":2611.924,"endTime":2616.754,"body":"But behind that simple change, there"},{"startTime":2611.924,"endTime":2616.754,"body":"is a lot going on because that is"},{"startTime":2616.759,"endTime":2620.474,"body":"asking the teacher to change their"},{"startTime":2616.759,"endTime":2620.474,"body":"language, but also the way they"},{"startTime":2620.474,"endTime":2623.504,"body":"communicate the way they feel about"},{"startTime":2620.474,"endTime":2623.504,"body":"the instructions that they're giving."},{"startTime":2623.774,"endTime":2625.304,"body":"There's a lot going on there."},{"startTime":2625.304,"endTime":2626.414,"body":"I, I love that."},{"startTime":2626.414,"endTime":2627.644,"body":"I think that's really clear."},{"startTime":2627.824,"endTime":2631.634,"body":"I I'd actually like to offer"},{"startTime":2627.824,"endTime":2631.634,"body":"an example that I can think of."},{"startTime":2631.634,"endTime":2635.264,"body":"There are some students who do"},{"startTime":2631.634,"endTime":2635.264,"body":"not want to look in the mirror."},{"startTime":2636.619,"endTime":2640.129,"body":"It is actually really,"},{"startTime":2636.619,"endTime":2640.129,"body":"really disturbing for them."},{"startTime":2640.189,"endTime":2642.079,"body":"And I've certainly been in that situation."},{"startTime":2642.079,"endTime":2644.629,"body":"Now, you don't know what's"},{"startTime":2642.079,"endTime":2644.629,"body":"going on behind there."},{"startTime":2645.169,"endTime":2648.619,"body":"What kind of body dysmorphia there"},{"startTime":2645.169,"endTime":2648.619,"body":"may be or anything like that, or"},{"startTime":2648.619,"endTime":2650.269,"body":"what they've been told in the past."},{"startTime":2650.929,"endTime":2655.249,"body":"And one of the ways that I've handled"},{"startTime":2650.929,"endTime":2655.249,"body":"that is to say, oh, okay, that's fine."},{"startTime":2655.399,"endTime":2658.309,"body":"Um, why don't we mirror each other?"},{"startTime":2659.539,"endTime":2661.759,"body":"So we kind of, you"},{"startTime":2659.539,"endTime":2661.759,"body":"know, copy my movements."},{"startTime":2661.764,"endTime":2662.869,"body":"You do your movement."},{"startTime":2662.929,"endTime":2664.009,"body":"I'll do mine."},{"startTime":2664.369,"endTime":2667.969,"body":"And to sort of raise awareness of"},{"startTime":2664.369,"endTime":2667.969,"body":"what's going on that way, rather"},{"startTime":2667.974,"endTime":2673.609,"body":"than forcing someone to look in the"},{"startTime":2667.974,"endTime":2673.609,"body":"mirror because you are making eye"},{"startTime":2673.609,"endTime":2676.279,"body":"contact with yourself in the mirror."},{"startTime":2676.489,"endTime":2680.839,"body":"Mm-hmm, , there's actually nothing"},{"startTime":2676.489,"endTime":2680.839,"body":"more powerful than making eye contact."},{"startTime":2681.319,"endTime":2681.589,"body":"Mm."},{"startTime":2683.424,"endTime":2684.574,"body":"That's sport, isn't it?"},{"startTime":2684.754,"endTime":2685.264,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2686.344,"endTime":2691.654,"body":"And I think we, if we want to become more"},{"startTime":2686.344,"endTime":2691.654,"body":"trauma aware, I mean, this is something"},{"startTime":2691.654,"endTime":2696.724,"body":"I always bang on about because, um,"},{"startTime":2691.654,"endTime":2696.724,"body":"trauma awareness, trauma being trauma"},{"startTime":2696.729,"endTime":2702.574,"body":"informed is such a big thing afterwards"},{"startTime":2696.729,"endTime":2702.574,"body":"selling point it's a selling point."},{"startTime":2703.894,"endTime":2704.434,"body":"It is."},{"startTime":2704.434,"endTime":2708.904,"body":"And if you say that, um, you're"},{"startTime":2704.434,"endTime":2708.904,"body":"not in the good books anymore, but,"},{"startTime":2709.174,"endTime":2714.334,"body":"um, I think sometimes we have to"},{"startTime":2709.174,"endTime":2714.334,"body":"call out things for what they are."},{"startTime":2714.334,"endTime":2716.434,"body":"And a lot of people"},{"startTime":2714.334,"endTime":2716.434,"body":"jump on that bandwagon."},{"startTime":2716.764,"endTime":2718.804,"body":"There's nothing wrong with"},{"startTime":2716.764,"endTime":2718.804,"body":"being trauma informed."},{"startTime":2718.834,"endTime":2721.054,"body":"I actually think everyone should be."},{"startTime":2721.534,"endTime":2727.234,"body":"It's just, if you should, as a singing"},{"startTime":2721.534,"endTime":2727.234,"body":"teacher, make that your main selling"},{"startTime":2727.234,"endTime":2731.524,"body":"point, you can have all of that running"},{"startTime":2727.234,"endTime":2731.524,"body":"in the background that still makes"},{"startTime":2731.524,"endTime":2733.444,"body":"you a trauma informed practitioner."},{"startTime":2733.444,"endTime":2735.244,"body":"I always think like if you say."},{"startTime":2735.919,"endTime":2737.749,"body":"Oh, trauma informed this and that."},{"startTime":2737.749,"endTime":2740.329,"body":"And so on and so forth, you"},{"startTime":2737.749,"endTime":2740.329,"body":"invite that into your space."},{"startTime":2740.334,"endTime":2744.289,"body":"I mean, I even wrote a block about this"},{"startTime":2740.334,"endTime":2744.289,"body":"and there's nothing wrong with doing"},{"startTime":2744.289,"endTime":2750.529,"body":"that if that's what you want to do, but"},{"startTime":2744.289,"endTime":2750.529,"body":"you have to be aware of the implications"},{"startTime":2750.534,"endTime":2755.539,"body":"that has, and of the potential"},{"startTime":2750.534,"endTime":2755.539,"body":"clientele that feels attracted to that."},{"startTime":2755.539,"endTime":2758.209,"body":"And you have to know if"},{"startTime":2755.539,"endTime":2758.209,"body":"that's what you really want."},{"startTime":2758.209,"endTime":2758.269,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2758.659,"endTime":2760.789,"body":"You also need a sense of responsibility."},{"startTime":2760.789,"endTime":2761.089,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2761.179,"endTime":2761.539,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":2761.539,"endTime":2764.179,"body":"And so to yourself and your"},{"startTime":2761.539,"endTime":2764.179,"body":"clients, and that's the scope"},{"startTime":2764.179,"endTime":2765.439,"body":"of practice thing, isn't it?"},{"startTime":2765.439,"endTime":2765.679,"body":"Because."},{"startTime":2766.694,"endTime":2771.614,"body":"you advertise yourself as trauma"},{"startTime":2766.694,"endTime":2771.614,"body":"informed and you actually have not"},{"startTime":2771.614,"endTime":2775.244,"body":"had the training for instance, that"},{"startTime":2771.614,"endTime":2775.244,"body":"someone like yourself has had, yeah."},{"startTime":2775.274,"endTime":2778.394,"body":"You are not going to be equipped"},{"startTime":2775.274,"endTime":2778.394,"body":"to deal with those situations"},{"startTime":2778.394,"endTime":2779.864,"body":"that come up in your studio."},{"startTime":2779.924,"endTime":2783.104,"body":"And I think I applaud you"},{"startTime":2779.924,"endTime":2783.104,"body":"for that blog that you wrote."},{"startTime":2783.134,"endTime":2785.324,"body":"Cuz I think it needed to be said."},{"startTime":2785.714,"endTime":2789.854,"body":"I think it sounds like it's people"},{"startTime":2785.714,"endTime":2789.854,"body":"latch onto a buzzword because"},{"startTime":2789.854,"endTime":2791.504,"body":"it's the latest thing mm-hmm yeah."},{"startTime":2791.654,"endTime":2795.674,"body":"I'm not sure that people understand"},{"startTime":2791.654,"endTime":2795.674,"body":"what trauma is and how deep it goes."},{"startTime":2795.874,"endTime":2796.314,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2796.634,"endTime":2796.874,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2796.879,"endTime":2799.874,"body":"And then they can be faced with a"},{"startTime":2796.879,"endTime":2799.874,"body":"situation that they are literally"},{"startTime":2799.879,"endTime":2801.644,"body":"not qualified to deal with."},{"startTime":2801.674,"endTime":2802.714,"body":"Mm-hmm exactly."},{"startTime":2803.534,"endTime":2808.244,"body":"I mean it's, it's sort of the"},{"startTime":2803.534,"endTime":2808.244,"body":"inflationary use is the one thing that"},{"startTime":2808.244,"endTime":2815.264,"body":"every type of emotional discomfort now"},{"startTime":2808.244,"endTime":2815.264,"body":"gets branded trauma that doesn't help."},{"startTime":2815.759,"endTime":2820.679,"body":"The person with emotional discomfort"},{"startTime":2815.759,"endTime":2820.679,"body":"because they just become less"},{"startTime":2820.679,"endTime":2823.799,"body":"resilient that way, because they will"},{"startTime":2820.679,"endTime":2823.799,"body":"constantly think there's something"},{"startTime":2823.799,"endTime":2828.239,"body":"wrong with what is actually essentially"},{"startTime":2823.799,"endTime":2828.239,"body":"quite normal human experience."},{"startTime":2828.539,"endTime":2832.709,"body":"Mm-hmm  but it's also not helpful"},{"startTime":2828.539,"endTime":2832.709,"body":"to the actual trauma survivor."},{"startTime":2832.709,"endTime":2838.559,"body":"I mean, trauma is sort of, well, there"},{"startTime":2832.709,"endTime":2838.559,"body":"are diagnostic criteria obviously, but"},{"startTime":2838.559,"endTime":2842.159,"body":"I'm not one who sits there sort of like"},{"startTime":2838.559,"endTime":2842.159,"body":"with the DSM five and goes like, yeah,"},{"startTime":2842.159,"endTime":2845.429,"body":"you don't have trauma because there's"},{"startTime":2842.159,"endTime":2845.429,"body":"not one tick box here or whatever."},{"startTime":2845.699,"endTime":2847.889,"body":"That's not how it should"},{"startTime":2845.699,"endTime":2847.889,"body":"be working either."},{"startTime":2847.889,"endTime":2851.549,"body":"If you know what I mean, it's a"},{"startTime":2847.889,"endTime":2851.549,"body":"big, massive gray zone, but, um,"},{"startTime":2852.784,"endTime":2856.204,"body":"I think it has become a buzzword."},{"startTime":2856.234,"endTime":2861.904,"body":"And I think that is, or that"},{"startTime":2856.234,"endTime":2861.904,"body":"brings its own host of problems."},{"startTime":2861.909,"endTime":2866.974,"body":"And if we really want to become"},{"startTime":2861.909,"endTime":2866.974,"body":"trauma aware or trauma informed"},{"startTime":2867.334,"endTime":2870.694,"body":"that can't be done by doing yeah."},{"startTime":2870.694,"endTime":2873.424,"body":"Taking one weekend class or whatever."},{"startTime":2873.424,"endTime":2877.774,"body":"So for instance, some of the courses"},{"startTime":2873.424,"endTime":2877.774,"body":"I run, they give you a brief insight."},{"startTime":2877.774,"endTime":2882.004,"body":"They give you some pointers as to, okay."},{"startTime":2882.244,"endTime":2884.854,"body":"If this is what I want to look into."},{"startTime":2886.069,"endTime":2888.529,"body":"How can I train myself more?"},{"startTime":2888.769,"endTime":2890.239,"body":"What else do I need?"},{"startTime":2890.239,"endTime":2892.099,"body":"Where do I even start?"},{"startTime":2892.189,"endTime":2892.969,"body":"If you know what I mean?"},{"startTime":2892.969,"endTime":2896.989,"body":"But it's not sort of like you"},{"startTime":2892.969,"endTime":2896.989,"body":"need real in person training."},{"startTime":2896.994,"endTime":2898.279,"body":"You can't learn that."},{"startTime":2898.279,"endTime":2901.609,"body":"Like with reading a couple of"},{"startTime":2898.279,"endTime":2901.609,"body":"books and taking a couple of online"},{"startTime":2901.614,"endTime":2903.979,"body":"classes, it's absolutely not possible."},{"startTime":2903.979,"endTime":2906.319,"body":"And it doesn't qualify"},{"startTime":2903.979,"endTime":2906.319,"body":"you in the same way."},{"startTime":2906.739,"endTime":2910.849,"body":"That was the thing in the past that"},{"startTime":2906.739,"endTime":2910.849,"body":"like a level two or level three"},{"startTime":2910.849,"endTime":2916.219,"body":"counseling qualifications, didn't"},{"startTime":2910.849,"endTime":2916.219,"body":"qualify you to be a counselor."},{"startTime":2916.219,"endTime":2918.229,"body":"They're two completely different things."},{"startTime":2918.229,"endTime":2923.179,"body":"If you know what I mean, counseling"},{"startTime":2918.229,"endTime":2923.179,"body":"skills and counseling are two"},{"startTime":2923.629,"endTime":2925.579,"body":"completely different things."},{"startTime":2926.179,"endTime":2929.299,"body":"And, um, so, so one is sort of like, yeah."},{"startTime":2929.999,"endTime":2933.079,"body":"Learning about holding space"},{"startTime":2929.999,"endTime":2933.079,"body":"and understanding about how"},{"startTime":2933.084,"endTime":2935.989,"body":"you bring yourself into yeah."},{"startTime":2935.994,"endTime":2938.809,"body":"The relational dynamic"},{"startTime":2935.994,"endTime":2938.809,"body":"and so on and so forth."},{"startTime":2939.049,"endTime":2941.329,"body":"And the other is actually doing."},{"startTime":2941.639,"endTime":2947.489,"body":"The work of being a counselor or a"},{"startTime":2941.639,"endTime":2947.489,"body":"therapist, and they're just related"},{"startTime":2947.489,"endTime":2951.449,"body":"at the very, very bottom of the"},{"startTime":2947.489,"endTime":2951.449,"body":"pyramids, if you know, and they're"},{"startTime":2951.454,"endTime":2953.369,"body":"not, it doesn't qualify it for you."},{"startTime":2953.369,"endTime":2958.559,"body":"And that, um, trend greatly,"},{"startTime":2953.369,"endTime":2958.559,"body":"greatly makes me feel yeah,"},{"startTime":2958.649,"endTime":2961.079,"body":"uncomfortable because it's left right."},{"startTime":2961.079,"endTime":2962.399,"body":"And center everywhere."},{"startTime":2962.399,"endTime":2966.149,"body":"And I feel like, um,"},{"startTime":2962.399,"endTime":2966.149,"body":"yeah, the pendulum has."},{"startTime":2966.924,"endTime":2971.034,"body":"Swung too far to the other"},{"startTime":2966.924,"endTime":2971.034,"body":"side, we've come from, just"},{"startTime":2971.094,"endTime":2973.014,"body":"suck it up and go through it."},{"startTime":2973.014,"endTime":2974.724,"body":"That was my generation still."},{"startTime":2974.729,"endTime":2978.024,"body":"You didn't talk about these things, if you"},{"startTime":2974.729,"endTime":2978.024,"body":"know what I mean, you just got on with it."},{"startTime":2978.984,"endTime":2982.524,"body":"That's not where you want to be"},{"startTime":2978.984,"endTime":2982.524,"body":"either, but we are now sort of where"},{"startTime":2982.529,"endTime":2988.164,"body":"everything as trauma and everything"},{"startTime":2982.529,"endTime":2988.164,"body":"has to be sort of looked at from this."},{"startTime":2989.604,"endTime":2993.264,"body":"Well, basically we're saying, oh,"},{"startTime":2989.604,"endTime":2993.264,"body":"we're not pathologizing things, but by"},{"startTime":2993.269,"endTime":2994.884,"body":"looking at it that way, we actually."},{"startTime":2995.519,"endTime":2995.999,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":2995.999,"endTime":3000.139,"body":"We start to pathologize the"},{"startTime":2995.999,"endTime":3000.139,"body":"normal human experience."},{"startTime":3000.169,"endTime":3000.469,"body":"Yep."},{"startTime":3000.559,"endTime":3003.829,"body":"Mm-hmm  and the pendulum has swung"},{"startTime":3000.559,"endTime":3003.829,"body":"too far, but I think maybe that's"},{"startTime":3003.829,"endTime":3007.729,"body":"sometimes what needs to happen"},{"startTime":3003.829,"endTime":3007.729,"body":"before it lands in the middle."},{"startTime":3007.729,"endTime":3011.269,"body":"And before we arrive at the point"},{"startTime":3007.729,"endTime":3011.269,"body":"where we ideally want to be."},{"startTime":3011.269,"endTime":3014.929,"body":"But I think at the moment we are not,"},{"startTime":3011.269,"endTime":3014.929,"body":"we've swung too far to the other side."},{"startTime":3014.929,"endTime":3016.309,"body":"That's at least how I see it."},{"startTime":3016.359,"endTime":3016.969,"body":"Thank you, Petra."},{"startTime":3016.989,"endTime":3017.869,"body":"That's wonderful."},{"startTime":3017.869,"endTime":3018.149,"body":"Wonderful."},{"startTime":3018.149,"endTime":3018.469,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":3018.849,"endTime":3019.589,"body":"See you next time."},{"startTime":3019.589,"endTime":3020.309,"body":"Thank you so much."},{"startTime":3021.409,"endTime":3021.829,"body":"Bye."},{"startTime":3033.219,"endTime":3036.609,"body":"This is a voice, a podcast with Dr."},{"startTime":3036.609,"endTime":3038.759,"body":"Gillyanne Kayes and Jeremy Fisher."},{"startTime":3039.189,"endTime":3043.509,"body":"This is a voice."}]}