{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":12.165,"endTime":13.665,"body":"This is A Voice."},{"startTime":14.295,"endTime":15.945,"body":"A podcast with Dr Gillyanne"},{"startTime":15.965,"endTime":17.675,"body":"Kayes and Jeremy Fisher."},{"startTime":22.529,"endTime":23.909,"body":"Hello and welcome to This Is"},{"startTime":23.909,"endTime":25.669,"body":"The Voice Season 11 Episode 3."},{"startTime":25.839,"endTime":26.869,"body":"The podcast where we"},{"startTime":26.869,"endTime":28.159,"body":"get vocal about voice."},{"startTime":28.219,"endTime":29.089,"body":"I'm Jeremy Fisher."},{"startTime":29.149,"endTime":30.509,"body":"And I'm Dr Gillyanne Kayes."},{"startTime":30.569,"endTime":32.439,"body":"And she's back!"},{"startTime":32.469,"endTime":34.479,"body":"We had such a great time talking"},{"startTime":34.509,"endTime":36.829,"body":"to Claire Underwood last time"},{"startTime":36.829,"endTime":37.769,"body":"so we brought her back again."},{"startTime":37.809,"endTime":38.039,"body":"Hello!"},{"startTime":38.039,"endTime":38.459,"body":"Claire."},{"startTime":38.459,"endTime":40.259,"body":"Hello."},{"startTime":40.357,"endTime":42.562,"body":"I want to  pick up on what Claire said"},{"startTime":42.602,"endTime":45.972,"body":"because the music does mesh everything"},{"startTime":45.972,"endTime":47.932,"body":"together and the music is important."},{"startTime":47.942,"endTime":51.232,"body":"So I'm thinking as a musician, because"},{"startTime":51.232,"endTime":52.572,"body":"you're highly trained as a musician,"},{"startTime":52.572,"endTime":54.342,"body":"you grew up in a musical family."},{"startTime":55.002,"endTime":57.312,"body":"How do you help people interpret"},{"startTime":57.332,"endTime":59.682,"body":"what's being said via the music?"},{"startTime":59.682,"endTime":60.842,"body":"Ooh, nice question!"},{"startTime":60.842,"endTime":63.937,"body":"Oh, it is because okay, I spend a lot"},{"startTime":63.937,"endTime":67.527,"body":"of my time trying really hard not to"},{"startTime":67.527,"endTime":69.597,"body":"accidentally step into somebody else's"},{"startTime":69.607,"endTime":73.247,"body":"territory in the production, so I can talk"},{"startTime":73.257,"endTime":76.537,"body":"about character and emotional expression."},{"startTime":76.537,"endTime":78.977,"body":"But I mustn't step on the director's toes."},{"startTime":79.457,"endTime":82.987,"body":"And I can talk about musicality, and"},{"startTime":83.337,"endTime":85.467,"body":"what the music is telling us, and what is"},{"startTime":85.467,"endTime":88.057,"body":"being coded in the music, but I mustn't"},{"startTime":88.067,"endTime":89.837,"body":"step on the musical director's toes."},{"startTime":90.487,"endTime":92.617,"body":"Because ultimately, those jobs"},{"startTime":92.617,"endTime":94.637,"body":"really do stand with them, and I am a"},{"startTime":94.637,"endTime":97.157,"body":"facilitator, but the way things work"},{"startTime":97.157,"endTime":99.907,"body":"often, they're not in the room with me."},{"startTime":100.747,"endTime":102.307,"body":"God, it's glorious when they are!"},{"startTime":102.307,"endTime":102.472,"body":"It's great."},{"startTime":102.942,"endTime":105.582,"body":"Flipping love it, but a lot of the"},{"startTime":105.582,"endTime":108.302,"body":"time I'm on my own having to make"},{"startTime":108.312,"endTime":110.612,"body":"some suggestions in either of those"},{"startTime":110.612,"endTime":112.112,"body":"directions because of the fact"},{"startTime":112.162,"endTime":113.462,"body":"that, as we said earlier, we can't"},{"startTime":113.462,"endTime":116.272,"body":"separate vocal production from the"},{"startTime":116.272,"endTime":118.192,"body":"storytelling or the musicianship."},{"startTime":118.192,"endTime":119.982,"body":"So to try and answer your question"},{"startTime":120.892,"endTime":123.692,"body":"I can make observations which I"},{"startTime":123.692,"endTime":126.582,"body":"think are solid enough that I feel"},{"startTime":126.682,"endTime":130.612,"body":"confident that they're irrefutable."},{"startTime":130.792,"endTime":131.412,"body":"Do you know what I mean?"},{"startTime":131.492,"endTime":132.722,"body":"That we're not going to breathe in the"},{"startTime":132.722,"endTime":135.362,"body":"middle of that phrase, and actually"},{"startTime":135.502,"endTime":136.882,"body":"that's not the important note there,"},{"startTime":136.882,"endTime":139.442,"body":"this is, and actually those two"},{"startTime":139.442,"endTime":141.052,"body":"phrases are leading to this over here."},{"startTime":142.292,"endTime":145.262,"body":"I can make those observations but I tend"},{"startTime":145.292,"endTime":148.177,"body":"not to get I try not to get too deeply"},{"startTime":148.177,"endTime":149.937,"body":"into that because the last thing the"},{"startTime":149.937,"endTime":152.457,"body":"performer needs is yet another cook."},{"startTime":152.457,"endTime":154.607,"body":"There's a lot of cooks in musical theatre"},{"startTime":155.117,"endTime":157.137,"body":"and, as I say, I'm in service to them."},{"startTime":157.327,"endTime":159.277,"body":"I don't want to be another voice"},{"startTime":159.657,"endTime":162.427,"body":"that, confuses their game plan."},{"startTime":162.977,"endTime":165.327,"body":"Yeah, it's a fun, it's a fun thing, but"},{"startTime":165.367,"endTime":167.617,"body":"And I talk about musical coding a lot."},{"startTime":168.007,"endTime":170.397,"body":"I can see what the music is coding for."},{"startTime":170.397,"endTime":172.797,"body":"And so I think I can take those,"},{"startTime":173.087,"endTime":174.537,"body":"I can make those assumptions."},{"startTime":174.537,"endTime":175.977,"body":"And then the deeper musical"},{"startTime":175.977,"endTime":177.367,"body":"insights I leave to the MDs."},{"startTime":177.451,"endTime":178.831,"body":"Otherwise you're in a situation"},{"startTime":178.831,"endTime":180.671,"body":"exactly said where, you feel you're"},{"startTime":180.671,"endTime":181.931,"body":"saying something very different."},{"startTime":181.971,"endTime":182.721,"body":"I've been in that"},{"startTime":182.721,"endTime":184.331,"body":"situation in drama schools."},{"startTime":184.881,"endTime":187.031,"body":"And you open your mouth too often."},{"startTime":187.231,"endTime":189.431,"body":"And it's the performer that suffers."},{"startTime":189.636,"endTime":191.706,"body":"Ultimately, that's what I'm trying"},{"startTime":191.706,"endTime":193.956,"body":"to avoid because I, have them."},{"startTime":193.956,"endTime":195.276,"body":"all too frequently in the room"},{"startTime":195.276,"endTime":196.776,"body":"saying, this person has said"},{"startTime":197.036,"endTime":198.006,"body":"this person has said this."},{"startTime":198.026,"endTime":199.546,"body":"Now nobody on the team has"},{"startTime":199.546,"endTime":201.086,"body":"wanted to confuse anybody."},{"startTime":201.606,"endTime":202.356,"body":"That's, not the goal."},{"startTime":202.356,"endTime":203.866,"body":"Nobody wakes up in the morning going,"},{"startTime":203.866,"endTime":205.246,"body":"let's really mess with this performer."},{"startTime":205.766,"endTime":209.076,"body":"But unfortunately it happens because we"},{"startTime":209.076,"endTime":212.596,"body":"all use the same, apparently the same"},{"startTime":212.662,"endTime":216.322,"body":"language, the same syntax, but we use it"},{"startTime":216.322,"endTime":217.892,"body":"to mean different things from person to"},{"startTime":217.892,"endTime":218.542,"body":"person."},{"startTime":219.112,"endTime":219.462,"body":"So,"},{"startTime":219.583,"endTime":219.799,"body":"So what."},{"startTime":220.154,"endTime":222.467,"body":"resident director has said clashes"},{"startTime":222.467,"endTime":225.531,"body":"with what MD has said, or associate"},{"startTime":225.531,"endTime":227.231,"body":"director has said,  and actually it"},{"startTime":227.231,"endTime":228.949,"body":"doesn't, it's just that we have to"},{"startTime":228.949,"endTime":229.879,"body":"leave room for the fact that we're"},{"startTime":229.879,"endTime":231.469,"body":"all using the same words differently."},{"startTime":231.671,"endTime":235.251,"body":"So I'm trying very hard to not, I mean"},{"startTime":235.431,"endTime":236.981,"body":"I can't avoid it because of course I'm"},{"startTime":236.981,"endTime":239.521,"body":"subject to those things as well I use"},{"startTime":239.521,"endTime":241.186,"body":"language differently to how you use it."},{"startTime":241.506,"endTime":243.996,"body":"You do use it, or to hell, my MD"},{"startTime":244.006,"endTime":245.906,"body":"uses it, whatever, I can't help that,"},{"startTime":246.316,"endTime":248.676,"body":"but I try as much as I can to be, a"},{"startTime":248.676,"endTime":251.326,"body":"facilitator rather than a dictator."},{"startTime":251.916,"endTime":253.086,"body":"I think it's really interesting because"},{"startTime":253.096,"endTime":254.856,"body":"you're also acting as a translator"},{"startTime":254.856,"endTime":256.326,"body":"sometimes for something that"},{"startTime":256.346,"endTime":257.306,"body":"someone else has said, and you"},{"startTime":257.306,"endTime":259.366,"body":"go, Oh, perhaps they said that,"},{"startTime":259.396,"endTime":260.856,"body":"but I can see that it would mean"},{"startTime":260.886,"endTime":262.506,"body":"this, and that has a different meaning."},{"startTime":262.506,"endTime":263.356,"body":"A lot of that."},{"startTime":264.361,"endTime":265.131,"body":"There's a lot of that."},{"startTime":265.441,"endTime":266.581,"body":"Because, fair enough, our"},{"startTime":266.581,"endTime":268.281,"body":"directors don't speak vocal"},{"startTime":268.281,"endTime":270.271,"body":"technique, and neither should they."},{"startTime":270.721,"endTime":271.241,"body":"That's, fine."},{"startTime":271.241,"endTime":272.481,"body":"That's for us to translate."},{"startTime":272.881,"endTime":274.511,"body":"But unfortunately the"},{"startTime":274.511,"endTime":277.161,"body":"language can get a bit blurry."},{"startTime":277.161,"endTime":277.471,"body":"And yeah."},{"startTime":277.471,"endTime":278.884,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":279.011,"endTime":280.691,"body":"is an interesting one, performers"},{"startTime":280.711,"endTime":284.771,"body":"tend, some performers tend to take what"},{"startTime":284.781,"endTime":287.921,"body":"different people on the team say with the"},{"startTime":287.921,"endTime":291.271,"body":"same weight, where even when that person"},{"startTime":291.271,"endTime":293.691,"body":"is not talking in their area of expertise."},{"startTime":293.691,"endTime":294.581,"body":"And that's a tricky one."},{"startTime":294.981,"endTime":296.131,"body":"That's, that, that's why"},{"startTime":296.131,"endTime":296.961,"body":"I think the translators."},{"startTime":297.591,"endTime":299.361,"body":"The translator role is really important."},{"startTime":299.871,"endTime":302.141,"body":"And learning to politely"},{"startTime":302.141,"endTime":303.521,"body":"and gently filter."},{"startTime":304.041,"endTime":304.441,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":304.441,"endTime":306.261,"body":"You engage the F U filter."},{"startTime":306.453,"endTime":306.713,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":308.783,"endTime":309.263,"body":"I Absolutely."},{"startTime":309.263,"endTime":309.523,"body":"I did."},{"startTime":309.523,"endTime":311.943,"body":"Could you do that in more blah?"},{"startTime":312.363,"endTime":312.673,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":313.423,"endTime":314.743,"body":"And I've had many conversations"},{"startTime":314.743,"endTime":315.583,"body":"with performers where they're"},{"startTime":315.583,"endTime":317.923,"body":"like I got six people telling me"},{"startTime":317.923,"endTime":319.333,"body":"different things about this bit."},{"startTime":319.633,"endTime":321.073,"body":"And, I've spoken to really"},{"startTime":321.073,"endTime":323.503,"body":"experienced lead role performers"},{"startTime":323.503,"endTime":325.123,"body":"about this and how they handle it."},{"startTime":325.213,"endTime":327.163,"body":"And the answer is they take all"},{"startTime":327.163,"endTime":329.203,"body":"the advice on board, they listen"},{"startTime":329.203,"endTime":330.883,"body":"to it all, they try it all."},{"startTime":330.883,"endTime":331.903,"body":"That's crucial."},{"startTime":332.053,"endTime":333.043,"body":"They try the note."},{"startTime":333.868,"endTime":336.078,"body":"And ultimately, they decide"},{"startTime":336.078,"endTime":337.078,"body":"what stays and what doesn't."},{"startTime":337.428,"endTime":338.898,"body":"What fits in their own"},{"startTime":339.098,"endTime":341.088,"body":"space and what doesn't."},{"startTime":341.438,"endTime":342.788,"body":"And if the note comes back again,"},{"startTime":342.788,"endTime":345.358,"body":"then it opens another conversation"},{"startTime":345.358,"endTime":347.168,"body":"that says, OK, I tried it, but I"},{"startTime":347.218,"endTime":348.458,"body":"really didn't feel like it worked,"},{"startTime":348.458,"endTime":350.568,"body":"so can we work  it a different way?"},{"startTime":350.988,"endTime":352.838,"body":"Can we try and find what it is"},{"startTime":352.838,"endTime":354.978,"body":"you're looking for within what"},{"startTime":354.978,"endTime":356.688,"body":"it is I feel comfortable With?"},{"startTime":356.838,"endTime":357.628,"body":"and that's fair enough."},{"startTime":357.628,"endTime":359.158,"body":"And I think when you have an"},{"startTime":359.158,"endTime":361.318,"body":"experienced performer who's got"},{"startTime":361.348,"endTime":364.048,"body":"that sense of their own worth, then"},{"startTime":364.048,"endTime":365.568,"body":"of course they're able to do it."},{"startTime":365.568,"endTime":367.698,"body":"But with the, the younger ones, they're"},{"startTime":367.698,"endTime":370.068,"body":"just desperate to take on every directive."},{"startTime":370.068,"endTime":371.403,"body":"Yes and there's that other thing about"},{"startTime":371.803,"endTime":373.373,"body":"the energy that you walk in with."},{"startTime":373.383,"endTime":376.043,"body":"So if you are young and you've just come"},{"startTime":376.043,"endTime":378.563,"body":"from a learning environment, you are"},{"startTime":378.583,"endTime":382.493,"body":"cracked wide open in the fill me role."},{"startTime":382.933,"endTime":385.473,"body":"Fill me, I, you have knowledge,"},{"startTime":385.473,"endTime":387.869,"body":"I am the recipient,  fill me."},{"startTime":387.993,"endTime":390.579,"body":"And  that's, you still need that bit"},{"startTime":390.579,"endTime":392.969,"body":"of you working when you're a performer,"},{"startTime":392.969,"endTime":394.643,"body":"but it,  but there's now a filter."},{"startTime":394.836,"endTime":397.099,"body":"There's there's, got to be a sieve  on"},{"startTime":397.099,"endTime":398.869,"body":"the front of it, so yes, pour everything"},{"startTime":398.869,"endTime":400.479,"body":"into me, but I'm going to filter that"},{"startTime":400.549,"endTime":402.169,"body":"a little bit, and that takes a while to"},{"startTime":402.169,"endTime":404.939,"body":"learn how to do that respectfully, and"},{"startTime":404.939,"endTime":408.609,"body":"how to do that with a sense, a true sense"},{"startTime":408.609,"endTime":410.619,"body":"of yourself in it, so that you're not"},{"startTime":410.629,"endTime":412.819,"body":"just being reactive and, or defensive,"},{"startTime":413.199,"endTime":414.431,"body":"and say, no, I won't do that, because"},{"startTime":414.431,"endTime":416.391,"body":"actually it feels uncomfortable yeah."},{"startTime":416.826,"endTime":418.516,"body":"There's a level of realisation,"},{"startTime":418.576,"endTime":420.286,"body":"I think, that goes into that."},{"startTime":420.316,"endTime":422.356,"body":"There's a level of self confidence"},{"startTime":422.356,"endTime":423.496,"body":"where you go, Actually, I can do"},{"startTime":423.496,"endTime":424.806,"body":"this, and I do know what I'm doing,"},{"startTime":424.806,"endTime":426.126,"body":"and I do know what I'm talking about."},{"startTime":426.496,"endTime":428.366,"body":"And I have learnt to do these things."},{"startTime":429.186,"endTime":430.626,"body":"That's a self realisation thing."},{"startTime":430.676,"endTime":432.436,"body":"And actually, that can come"},{"startTime":432.436,"endTime":433.676,"body":"at any point in your life."},{"startTime":433.676,"endTime":434.856,"body":"It could actually come in the"},{"startTime":434.856,"endTime":436.126,"body":"first year of your drama College"},{"startTime":436.491,"endTime":437.351,"body":"Where you go, No, I"},{"startTime":437.351,"endTime":438.091,"body":"know what I want to do."},{"startTime":438.591,"endTime":439.851,"body":"I know who I am and I know what I want to"},{"startTime":439.851,"endTime":441.871,"body":"do, and it could come five years into the"},{"startTime":441.871,"endTime":442.381,"body":"profession."},{"startTime":442.544,"endTime":444.598,"body":"Where you go, okay  finally, I'm not"},{"startTime":444.598,"endTime":446.648,"body":"paying any attention to this thing."},{"startTime":446.968,"endTime":447.668,"body":"I'm gonna do what"},{"startTime":447.668,"endTime":448.378,"body":"I do."},{"startTime":449.113,"endTime":451.113,"body":"I think, though, that Claire, what you"},{"startTime":451.123,"endTime":453.963,"body":"said about coming from an education"},{"startTime":453.963,"endTime":455.713,"body":"environment and being cracked wide"},{"startTime":455.713,"endTime":458.063,"body":"open to the right, I'm still learning."},{"startTime":458.653,"endTime":460.683,"body":"I think that's so insightful of you,"},{"startTime":460.693,"endTime":462.093,"body":"Claire, what you've just said about"},{"startTime":462.093,"endTime":464.263,"body":"coming from a, an education environment"},{"startTime":464.263,"endTime":467.053,"body":"and being open to everything because"},{"startTime":467.433,"endTime":471.063,"body":"you, still want to learn and just being"},{"startTime":471.063,"endTime":474.853,"body":"able to move from that into actually"},{"startTime":475.263,"endTime":477.663,"body":"taking your own agency and using"},{"startTime":477.663,"endTime":478.903,"body":"that filter that you've spoken about."},{"startTime":478.983,"endTime":481.653,"body":"I think that's true but I also think,"},{"startTime":482.033,"endTime":483.413,"body":"I mean I think this is a life thing"},{"startTime":483.413,"endTime":486.068,"body":"for all of us isn't  but particularly"},{"startTime":486.118,"endTime":490.028,"body":"in an artistic field that we go into"},{"startTime":490.028,"endTime":491.828,"body":"it because there are no final answers."},{"startTime":492.178,"endTime":494.598,"body":"because there is endless exploration."},{"startTime":494.598,"endTime":496.808,"body":"We could sing the same musical"},{"startTime":497.018,"endTime":499.618,"body":"from age 20 to age 80 and still"},{"startTime":499.618,"endTime":501.288,"body":"find something different in it."},{"startTime":501.417,"endTime":504.29,"body":"And that's  glorious, but it, means"},{"startTime":504.29,"endTime":506.66,"body":"we do actually quite quickly need to"},{"startTime":506.66,"endTime":510.223,"body":"learn to live with, I am open  and"},{"startTime":510.243,"endTime":513.033,"body":"learning and I have value as I am."},{"startTime":513.383,"endTime":516.622,"body":"And I think a lot of the time,  those"},{"startTime":516.622,"endTime":519.222,"body":"two things feel mutually exclusive."},{"startTime":519.436,"endTime":520.896,"body":"Either I know enough or I don't."},{"startTime":521.446,"endTime":523.136,"body":"But actually, you know enough"},{"startTime":523.356,"endTime":524.396,"body":"and there's more to learn."},{"startTime":524.472,"endTime":526.522,"body":"That's, what you're, I think,"},{"startTime":526.782,"endTime":528.522,"body":"saying, Jeremy, about your kind of"},{"startTime":528.522,"endTime":530.152,"body":"realization of your, of yourself."},{"startTime":530.152,"endTime":532.239,"body":"It's yes, I've got,  I can feel enough"},{"startTime":532.239,"endTime":534.269,"body":"of myself in here that I can go on and"},{"startTime":534.269,"endTime":536.232,"body":"do this,  Why would I want to be in"},{"startTime":536.232,"endTime":538.012,"body":"this creative industry if I didn't?"},{"startTime":538.012,"endTime":539.112,"body":"feel like it was always"},{"startTime":539.112,"endTime":544.142,"body":"constantly going to develop and"},{"startTime":544.432,"endTime":546.452,"body":"up for me when you said that,"},{"startTime":546.532,"endTime":549.862,"body":"because I get it, and yet,"},{"startTime":549.862,"endTime":551.922,"body":"I think, in my head, I see"},{"startTime":551.922,"endTime":553.102,"body":"it as two different things."},{"startTime":553.622,"endTime":556.342,"body":"So you've got a confidence in your"},{"startTime":556.342,"endTime":558.172,"body":"own ability in some way or other."},{"startTime":558.172,"endTime":560.032,"body":"For instance, it takes bravery to"},{"startTime":560.032,"endTime":562.642,"body":"walk on stage and do something at all."},{"startTime":562.942,"endTime":564.722,"body":"It takes bravery to walk on stage"},{"startTime":564.762,"endTime":567.132,"body":"and do something in character, and"},{"startTime":567.132,"endTime":568.382,"body":"it takes a completely different"},{"startTime":568.382,"endTime":570.392,"body":"level of bravery to do that and sing."},{"startTime":570.892,"endTime":572.272,"body":"There's a level of bravery that goes"},{"startTime":572.272,"endTime":573.882,"body":"on, and when you do it and when you're"},{"startTime":573.882,"endTime":575.672,"body":"comfortable with yourself, that's innate."},{"startTime":575.702,"endTime":576.892,"body":"It's yeah, that's fine,"},{"startTime":576.892,"endTime":577.812,"body":"that's my job, I can do that."},{"startTime":577.812,"endTime":579.472,"body":"I think there's an interesting"},{"startTime":579.932,"endTime":582.922,"body":"The thing between the type of new"},{"startTime":582.922,"endTime":585.232,"body":"information, if it's new information"},{"startTime":585.232,"endTime":586.662,"body":"that you go, oh, that's really"},{"startTime":586.662,"endTime":588.542,"body":"interesting, I could try it like that."},{"startTime":588.972,"endTime":590.552,"body":"That to me is a piece of information"},{"startTime":590.552,"endTime":593.302,"body":"that doesn't affect you personally."},{"startTime":593.722,"endTime":595.922,"body":"It's a new idea to try out."},{"startTime":596.242,"endTime":598.672,"body":"Occasionally, you get something thrown"},{"startTime":598.672,"endTime":600.515,"body":"at you that affects you personally."},{"startTime":600.515,"endTime":602.68,"body":"And that's, I think, where the"},{"startTime":602.772,"endTime":605.352,"body":"Potentially dangerous stuff is, because if"},{"startTime":605.352,"endTime":607.592,"body":"it's, if that piece of information is big"},{"startTime":607.592,"endTime":610.032,"body":"enough, deep enough, sharp enough, pointed"},{"startTime":610.032,"endTime":612.956,"body":"enough,  that it gets into your core,"},{"startTime":612.966,"endTime":614.766,"body":"that can really shake your confidence."},{"startTime":614.766,"endTime":615.436,"body":"And then it's a question"},{"startTime":615.436,"endTime":616.776,"body":"of how you deal with that."},{"startTime":616.806,"endTime":618.816,"body":"yes I think that's fair and I also"},{"startTime":618.816,"endTime":620.596,"body":"think that  the shape of the piece"},{"startTime":620.596,"endTime":622.709,"body":"of information or  the piece of"},{"startTime":622.709,"endTime":625.329,"body":"information's blade is sharpened by"},{"startTime":625.969,"endTime":629.299,"body":"where you started from inside you"},{"startTime":629.699,"endTime":632.192,"body":"if you've got a sore spot  about your"},{"startTime":632.192,"endTime":635.772,"body":"performing or about your voice, that"},{"startTime":636.042,"endTime":637.682,"body":"piece of information could actually"},{"startTime":637.692,"endTime":639.082,"body":"have started off as a butter knife,"},{"startTime":639.082,"endTime":641.312,"body":"but now is, a full on carving knife."},{"startTime":641.312,"endTime":641.572,"body":"Totally."},{"startTime":641.727,"endTime":643.507,"body":"Whereas given to the person next"},{"startTime":643.507,"endTime":644.627,"body":"to you who doesn't have the same"},{"startTime":644.627,"endTime":646.317,"body":"sensitivity about that quality in"},{"startTime":646.317,"endTime":648.407,"body":"their voice,  it stayed a butter knife."},{"startTime":648.407,"endTime":649.257,"body":"And I think it's time to"},{"startTime":649.257,"endTime":650.217,"body":"put that metaphor down now."},{"startTime":650.227,"endTime":652.364,"body":"I think  I've, hacked it about enough."},{"startTime":653.778,"endTime":655.191,"body":"Ha"},{"startTime":655.629,"endTime":657.169,"body":"that I like it a lot."},{"startTime":658.018,"endTime":659.432,"body":"ha."},{"startTime":659.449,"endTime":661.149,"body":"talk about Velcro, we talk about"},{"startTime":661.159,"endTime":663.069,"body":"having a piece of Velcro inside which"},{"startTime":663.069,"endTime":665.609,"body":"is a fault that you believe you have."},{"startTime":665.909,"endTime":668.029,"body":"And then somebody throwing a stickleball"},{"startTime":668.029,"endTime":669.079,"body":"at you and it hits the piece of"},{"startTime":669.079,"endTime":671.339,"body":"Velcro and sticks or it just falls off"},{"startTime":671.339,"endTime":671.969,"body":"That's brilliant."},{"startTime":672.139,"endTime":672.339,"body":"better."},{"startTime":672.339,"endTime":672.789,"body":"If you have that velcro."},{"startTime":673.039,"endTime":673.749,"body":"I like it a lot."},{"startTime":673.779,"endTime":674.199,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":674.314,"endTime":676.244,"body":"No, I like the butter knife."},{"startTime":676.794,"endTime":678.254,"body":"I'm, sticking with the butter knife."},{"startTime":678.254,"endTime":679.234,"body":"No, Lord."},{"startTime":679.254,"endTime":680.094,"body":"Let's see what happens"},{"startTime":680.094,"endTime":681.054,"body":"when that comes out."},{"startTime":681.128,"endTime":683.108,"body":"I was just thinking about you, what"},{"startTime":683.118,"endTime":685.268,"body":"you're talking about the evolving process,"},{"startTime":685.268,"endTime":688.058,"body":"imagine you were went into a musical"},{"startTime":688.088,"endTime":691.448,"body":"age 24 and you did many performances"},{"startTime":691.508,"endTime":693.622,"body":"of that musical throughout  your, life."},{"startTime":693.622,"endTime":697.035,"body":"Do you think,  It is  too easy for"},{"startTime":697.495,"endTime":699.705,"body":"performers to confuse that evolving"},{"startTime":699.705,"endTime":701.635,"body":"process because you're going to evolve"},{"startTime":701.635,"endTime":703.951,"body":"a role through a run for starters."},{"startTime":703.951,"endTime":705.351,"body":"They're confusing that with"},{"startTime":705.421,"endTime":707.246,"body":"imperfection versus perfection."},{"startTime":707.246,"endTime":709.267,"body":"And wondered how much you come"},{"startTime":709.267,"endTime":711.387,"body":"across this idea that, this could"},{"startTime":711.387,"endTime":713.467,"body":"be an unformed idea that I'm"},{"startTime":714.122,"endTime":714.972,"body":"I think I know."},{"startTime":715.192,"endTime":715.742,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":715.827,"endTime":717.697,"body":"I certainly rub up again."},{"startTime":717.737,"endTime":719.157,"body":"It's not quite answering your question,"},{"startTime":719.158,"endTime":720.751,"body":"Gillyanne but,  over and over and over and"},{"startTime":720.751,"endTime":723.881,"body":"over again, perfectionism is  an issue."},{"startTime":723.921,"endTime":726.964,"body":"And I think it's fuelled by  living in"},{"startTime":726.974,"endTime":729.921,"body":"the recorded age because  we have so"},{"startTime":729.921,"endTime":732.321,"body":"many versions of perfection to listen"},{"startTime":732.321,"endTime":733.831,"body":"to and measure ourselves up against"},{"startTime":733.957,"endTime":736.787,"body":"without ever  articulating that's how it"},{"startTime":736.787,"endTime":740.854,"body":"was  one day, one moment, in one studio."},{"startTime":740.992,"endTime":742.692,"body":"and that it was then tweaked to within"},{"startTime":742.692,"endTime":744.072,"body":"an inch of its life afterwards anyway,"},{"startTime":744.072,"endTime":745.212,"body":"so you know, that's a whole other"},{"startTime":745.212,"endTime":747.512,"body":"thing, but nonetheless there's a lot"},{"startTime":747.512,"endTime":749.282,"body":"of measuring ourselves against it."},{"startTime":749.357,"endTime":752.257,"body":"Do I think it plays a part in role?"},{"startTime":752.267,"endTime":755.434,"body":"Sorry, can you, go  Gillyanne, go again."},{"startTime":755.874,"endTime":758.739,"body":"I was thinking about a role, and,,"},{"startTime":758.739,"endTime":760.689,"body":"someone's preparing a new role,"},{"startTime":760.739,"endTime":763.112,"body":"new to themselves  and the sense of"},{"startTime":763.112,"endTime":764.642,"body":"it's got to be perfect before you"},{"startTime":764.642,"endTime":766.812,"body":"go on stage because where I wanted"},{"startTime":766.812,"endTime":768.852,"body":"to go is this idea of evolving."},{"startTime":768.862,"endTime":770.486,"body":"Let's just talk about  how a"},{"startTime":770.486,"endTime":773.496,"body":"performance evolves across a run."},{"startTime":773.496,"endTime":777.186,"body":"And that's actually okay, and with"},{"startTime":777.186,"endTime":779.076,"body":"perfectionism being something that"},{"startTime":779.076,"endTime":781.186,"body":"can actually really sabotage us."},{"startTime":781.241,"endTime":784.021,"body":"Yes the perfection, achieving perfection"},{"startTime":784.021,"endTime":786.971,"body":"before you go on I think sometimes that"},{"startTime":786.971,"endTime":788.721,"body":"comes into play, but a lot of the time"},{"startTime":788.721,"endTime":790.604,"body":"we're accepting  that's why we have"},{"startTime":790.604,"endTime":792.917,"body":"previews and   that's, built in, you've"},{"startTime":792.917,"endTime":795.327,"body":"got a little bit of soft space there to"},{"startTime":795.337,"endTime":799.084,"body":"be able to build a product that  is,  Fine"},{"startTime":799.104,"endTime":802.12,"body":"enough, and fine in terms of, fine jewels."},{"startTime":802.43,"endTime":803.74,"body":"And then to be able to build from there."},{"startTime":803.74,"endTime":805.09,"body":"I think most performers assume"},{"startTime":805.09,"endTime":806.61,"body":"that it is going  to build."},{"startTime":806.97,"endTime":809.12,"body":"There is an enormous pressure, however,"},{"startTime":809.76,"endTime":812.05,"body":"especially with these big flagship shows,"},{"startTime":812.54,"endTime":816.46,"body":"that  match what the audience has heard or"},{"startTime":816.46,"endTime":818.924,"body":"seen, much of the audience of Hamilton has"},{"startTime":818.944,"endTime":821.884,"body":"watched it on Disney,  and  they know  the"},{"startTime":822.0,"endTime":824.15,"body":"soundtrack back to front and upside down."},{"startTime":824.37,"endTime":825.87,"body":"My nine year old knows it by heart"},{"startTime":825.9,"endTime":827.42,"body":"because he listens to it every night, so"},{"startTime":827.42,"endTime":828.89,"body":"it's, really relaxing when I get home."},{"startTime":829.25,"endTime":831.897,"body":"But  He's not the only one."},{"startTime":831.907,"endTime":833.277,"body":"There are a lot of people out"},{"startTime":833.277,"endTime":834.332,"body":"there who know that soundtrack"},{"startTime":834.404,"endTime":835.724,"body":"back to front and upside down."},{"startTime":835.762,"endTime":837.91,"body":"So the there is a built in"},{"startTime":837.91,"endTime":839.32,"body":"pressure to the performers."},{"startTime":839.665,"endTime":842.875,"body":"that they have to at least meet that."},{"startTime":842.875,"endTime":845.599,"body":"And   what that ignores  is, and I'm"},{"startTime":845.599,"endTime":847.369,"body":"going to go back into my woo self"},{"startTime":847.369,"endTime":849.609,"body":"now, what that ignores is the energy"},{"startTime":849.609,"endTime":851.509,"body":"that takes place in the auditorium,"},{"startTime":851.599,"endTime":853.439,"body":"the energy that live brings."},{"startTime":853.609,"endTime":856.439,"body":"You may or may not sing, What did I miss?"},{"startTime":856.652,"endTime":858.242,"body":"As brilliantly as it was done"},{"startTime":858.242,"endTime":859.552,"body":"on the original recording."},{"startTime":859.732,"endTime":861.462,"body":"You may or may not,  it'll be different"},{"startTime":861.492,"endTime":863.632,"body":"anyway because you're not him, but"},{"startTime":863.902,"endTime":865.842,"body":"actually what's happening in the"},{"startTime":865.842,"endTime":868.862,"body":"auditorium is, people and energies"},{"startTime":868.862,"endTime":870.662,"body":"are mixing and something else happens"},{"startTime":870.722,"endTime":873.962,"body":"and I think it's really important for"},{"startTime":873.962,"endTime":876.702,"body":"performers to remember that when they are"},{"startTime":876.702,"endTime":878.602,"body":"dealing with issues around perfectionism."},{"startTime":878.917,"endTime":881.187,"body":"So you're like, you are actually, you're,"},{"startTime":881.197,"endTime":882.987,"body":"we've been talking about this as well"},{"startTime":882.987,"endTime":885.057,"body":"at Secret Sing, no performance that you"},{"startTime":885.057,"endTime":887.467,"body":"practice in your bedroom is complete, or"},{"startTime":887.467,"endTime":890.317,"body":"can be anywhere near complete, until it"},{"startTime":890.327,"endTime":893.157,"body":"has an audience, because it requires their"},{"startTime":893.367,"endTime":896.277,"body":"input, it requires their interpretation"},{"startTime":896.277,"endTime":898.427,"body":"of it in their own minds, coming from"},{"startTime":898.427,"endTime":900.437,"body":"where they were you know, they may have"},{"startTime":900.437,"endTime":901.937,"body":"had a good or a bad day, they may have"},{"startTime":901.937,"endTime":903.557,"body":"arrived in the theatre feeling flustered"},{"startTime":903.587,"endTime":905.417,"body":"or feeling totally ready and full of joy."},{"startTime":905.707,"endTime":907.277,"body":"There's, you have no control over those"},{"startTime":907.277,"endTime":910.217,"body":"things but you need those things to exist"},{"startTime":910.447,"endTime":912.507,"body":"for your performance to fly and for it"},{"startTime":912.507,"endTime":914.037,"body":"to touch one person or another person."},{"startTime":914.407,"endTime":916.547,"body":"So to come back to your point about"},{"startTime":916.897,"endTime":918.432,"body":"perfectionism and, building in a"},{"startTime":918.432,"endTime":920.492,"body":"role there's an enormous amount of"},{"startTime":920.492,"endTime":922.562,"body":"pressure on performers to achieve"},{"startTime":922.592,"endTime":924.462,"body":"the same product every night."},{"startTime":924.965,"endTime":927.545,"body":"And yet, it cannot be."},{"startTime":927.965,"endTime":928.745,"body":"And that's what I always"},{"startTime":928.745,"endTime":929.675,"body":"try and remind them."},{"startTime":929.725,"endTime":931.095,"body":"It simply cannot be."},{"startTime":931.095,"endTime":932.505,"body":"It's that old thing about you can't put"},{"startTime":932.505,"endTime":934.585,"body":"your foot in the same bit of river twice."},{"startTime":935.465,"endTime":937.415,"body":"Because we have totally different"},{"startTime":937.445,"endTime":939.135,"body":"energies in the theatre at this point."},{"startTime":939.555,"endTime":941.575,"body":"And so it can't be the"},{"startTime":941.575,"endTime":942.525,"body":"same as it was last night."},{"startTime":942.565,"endTime":943.785,"body":"And there's a release in that."},{"startTime":944.015,"endTime":945.795,"body":"Yes, we are always striving"},{"startTime":945.795,"endTime":948.185,"body":"for an elite performance."},{"startTime":948.945,"endTime":952.085,"body":"And in that regard, we They can be equated"},{"startTime":952.145,"endTime":955.145,"body":"to Olympic athletes or, any high flying,"},{"startTime":956.0,"endTime":956.5,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":956.5,"endTime":957.33,"body":"pursuit."},{"startTime":957.45,"endTime":959.16,"body":"But it is just that, it is a pursuit."},{"startTime":960.136,"endTime":961.656,"body":"We can't find perfection every night."},{"startTime":962.221,"endTime":962.461,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":963.111,"endTime":964.331,"body":"My name is Jeremy and I'm"},{"startTime":964.331,"endTime":965.601,"body":"a recovering perfectionist."},{"startTime":966.356,"endTime":967.236,"body":"Jeremy, I'm proud of"},{"startTime":967.411,"endTime":968.101,"body":"Thank you."},{"startTime":968.561,"endTime":970.971,"body":"I have a sentence that I think"},{"startTime":970.971,"endTime":973.281,"body":"is relevant, which I learned"},{"startTime":973.321,"endTime":974.871,"body":"and talk to myself all the time,"},{"startTime":975.211,"endTime":976.691,"body":"which is best I can do today."},{"startTime":976.726,"endTime":976.956,"body":"Yep."},{"startTime":976.956,"endTime":979.066,"body":"And what's so nice about that is best I"},{"startTime":979.066,"endTime":980.666,"body":"can do with the knowledge I have today"},{"startTime":980.676,"endTime":983.306,"body":"in the situation that I'm in today."},{"startTime":983.566,"endTime":985.326,"body":"And I think the situation thing is"},{"startTime":985.326,"endTime":988.056,"body":"really useful because exactly what"},{"startTime":988.056,"endTime":989.976,"body":"you're talking about, anything that you"},{"startTime":989.976,"endTime":994.53,"body":"do in theatre, must include audience"},{"startTime":994.53,"endTime":994.97,"body":"energy."},{"startTime":994.97,"endTime":996.58,"body":"Because what's the point of"},{"startTime":996.58,"endTime":998.11,"body":"you being on stage if you then"},{"startTime":998.11,"endTime":999.73,"body":"block the audience entirely?"},{"startTime":1000.13,"endTime":1001.7,"body":"Please just go back to your bedroom."},{"startTime":1002.05,"endTime":1003.82,"body":"It's not, that's not the point of theatre."},{"startTime":1003.83,"endTime":1005.07,"body":"It's not the point of performing."},{"startTime":1005.42,"endTime":1007.96,"body":"So the audience brings an energy"},{"startTime":1007.96,"endTime":1009.36,"body":"and you cannot plan for it."},{"startTime":1009.51,"endTime":1009.75,"body":"You can't."},{"startTime":1010.521,"endTime":1012.671,"body":"You can maneuver it to a certain"},{"startTime":1012.671,"endTime":1014.331,"body":"extent because I've done it,"},{"startTime":1014.741,"endTime":1016.651,"body":"but you can't actually make them"},{"startTime":1016.671,"endTime":1019.311,"body":"change their energy by force."},{"startTime":1019.771,"endTime":1020.661,"body":"It doesn't happen."},{"startTime":1020.811,"endTime":1021.271,"body":"No."},{"startTime":1021.701,"endTime":1023.311,"body":"So it's really interesting that you"},{"startTime":1023.321,"endTime":1025.551,"body":"must include that in the equation as to"},{"startTime":1025.561,"endTime":1027.131,"body":"whether you're doing a good show or not."},{"startTime":1027.461,"endTime":1028.861,"body":"It might actually be nothing"},{"startTime":1028.861,"endTime":1029.691,"body":"to do with you at all."},{"startTime":1029.761,"endTime":1032.041,"body":"And how you feel about it at the end."},{"startTime":1032.081,"endTime":1033.321,"body":"And by the way, the number of"},{"startTime":1033.321,"endTime":1035.936,"body":"audiences that Performed for that"},{"startTime":1035.946,"endTime":1038.406,"body":"you go, wow, this is a tough audience"},{"startTime":1038.406,"endTime":1040.326,"body":"getting nothing from them at all."},{"startTime":1040.626,"endTime":1041.976,"body":"And you get the standing ovation at the"},{"startTime":1041.976,"endTime":1043.386,"body":"end and screaming and cheering and you"},{"startTime":1043.386,"endTime":1044.766,"body":"go, hang on, where did that come from?"},{"startTime":1045.036,"endTime":1046.376,"body":"Because you haven't displayed any of"},{"startTime":1046.386,"endTime":1047.276,"body":"that all the way through the show."},{"startTime":1047.286,"endTime":1048.256,"body":"You've been no help at all."},{"startTime":1048.256,"endTime":1048.566,"body":"yeah,"},{"startTime":1049.046,"endTime":1049.926,"body":"Extraordinary, isn't it?"},{"startTime":1050.371,"endTime":1051.44,"body":"Mm hmm,"},{"startTime":1051.54,"endTime":1054.03,"body":"couple of things I want to talk about."},{"startTime":1054.03,"endTime":1055.12,"body":"First of all, I think we should"},{"startTime":1055.12,"endTime":1057.26,"body":"talk about safety, because this"},{"startTime":1057.26,"endTime":1058.81,"body":"has come up in what you've been"},{"startTime":1058.81,"endTime":1060.85,"body":"telling us all the way through, so"},{"startTime":1060.85,"endTime":1062.16,"body":"it'd be good to talk about that."},{"startTime":1062.61,"endTime":1064.15,"body":"But just thinking about helping a"},{"startTime":1064.15,"endTime":1065.44,"body":"performer find what I'm going to"},{"startTime":1065.44,"endTime":1068.47,"body":"call the envelope of good enough."},{"startTime":1068.47,"endTime":1070.54,"body":"So if you have that envelope of good"},{"startTime":1070.54,"endTime":1072.04,"body":"enough, which, sometimes it can be a"},{"startTime":1072.04,"endTime":1074.56,"body":"bit bigger, a bit smaller, but that's"},{"startTime":1074.57,"endTime":1076.66,"body":"something that you're able to help them"},{"startTime":1076.67,"endTime":1078.69,"body":"build so that when they do go on stage"},{"startTime":1078.69,"endTime":1080.25,"body":"and things, maybe, maybe they didn't"},{"startTime":1080.25,"endTime":1082.08,"body":"get that wretched top note the way they"},{"startTime":1082.08,"endTime":1084.28,"body":"wanted to,  or the audience didn't give"},{"startTime":1084.28,"endTime":1086.09,"body":"them the massive applause at the end of"},{"startTime":1086.09,"endTime":1087.726,"body":"that number that they got the other night."},{"startTime":1087.745,"endTime":1088.878,"body":"How do you help them"},{"startTime":1088.878,"endTime":1090.003,"body":"find that good enough?"},{"startTime":1090.133,"endTime":1091.761,"body":"It's a fantastic question."},{"startTime":1091.897,"endTime":1093.487,"body":"And I don't know if I"},{"startTime":1093.517,"endTime":1095.255,"body":"have  a ready answer."},{"startTime":1095.383,"endTime":1097.203,"body":"Except to say that I think that's"},{"startTime":1097.203,"endTime":1099.213,"body":"where the car mechanic bit comes in."},{"startTime":1099.213,"endTime":1100.652,"body":"I always talk about  technique"},{"startTime":1100.692,"endTime":1102.172,"body":"being like a Zimmer frame."},{"startTime":1102.312,"endTime":1104.252,"body":"that's there for you when the magic isn't"},{"startTime":1104.33,"endTime":1106.152,"body":"when, you feel low,  when the audience"},{"startTime":1106.152,"endTime":1107.513,"body":"isn't giving you back  quite what you"},{"startTime":1107.513,"endTime":1109.103,"body":"thought they were going to, when you've"},{"startTime":1109.103,"endTime":1111.023,"body":"got  an understudy in front of you who"},{"startTime":1111.023,"endTime":1112.913,"body":"you're more worried about them than you"},{"startTime":1112.984,"endTime":1114.822,"body":"any of those situations  that's when your"},{"startTime":1114.822,"endTime":1117.229,"body":"technique   comes, bubbling  to the front"},{"startTime":1117.229,"endTime":1119.877,"body":"of your  subconscious,   at the front of"},{"startTime":1119.877,"endTime":1121.467,"body":"your conscious, from your subconscious"},{"startTime":1121.699,"endTime":1124.326,"body":"Because if you've worked,  if we've"},{"startTime":1124.326,"endTime":1127.893,"body":"worked that  in our sessions  and we know"},{"startTime":1128.059,"endTime":1130.339,"body":"what, points we're trying to hit, what"},{"startTime":1130.339,"endTime":1132.189,"body":"flavors we're trying to hit along the"},{"startTime":1132.189,"endTime":1134.953,"body":"way, you have to  rely on the fact that,"},{"startTime":1135.263,"endTime":1137.283,"body":"as Jeremy said earlier, you were cast."},{"startTime":1137.313,"endTime":1139.509,"body":"So there is an essence of you  that"},{"startTime":1139.509,"endTime":1142.079,"body":"is right and you have delivered that"},{"startTime":1142.163,"endTime":1143.883,"body":"on a nuts and bolts level you have"},{"startTime":1143.883,"endTime":1145.986,"body":"delivered  what you needed to deliver."},{"startTime":1146.143,"endTime":1148.343,"body":"The other thing that I really remind"},{"startTime":1148.363,"endTime":1150.383,"body":"them of a lot is it doesn't matter"},{"startTime":1150.383,"endTime":1152.233,"body":"if you are the principal role."},{"startTime":1152.233,"endTime":1153.659,"body":"It doesn't matter if, if you're"},{"startTime":1153.659,"endTime":1156.429,"body":"Valjean and you're on most of the show."},{"startTime":1156.609,"endTime":1158.279,"body":"Yes, you carry a huge amount of"},{"startTime":1158.289,"endTime":1160.009,"body":"the show, but the show isn't you."},{"startTime":1160.264,"endTime":1161.863,"body":"It's not you by yourself."},{"startTime":1161.926,"endTime":1163.608,"body":"So if you're having a night where"},{"startTime":1163.698,"endTime":1165.991,"body":"all you can think of is, okay,  I'm"},{"startTime":1165.991,"endTime":1167.291,"body":"just going to mix through this, I'm"},{"startTime":1167.291,"endTime":1168.591,"body":"going to belt that, you've left your"},{"startTime":1168.591,"endTime":1170.381,"body":"emotional self behind somewhere."},{"startTime":1170.533,"endTime":1172.413,"body":"Actually rely on the fact that the rest"},{"startTime":1172.413,"endTime":1174.353,"body":"of the cast aren't all in that same place."},{"startTime":1174.473,"endTime":1175.953,"body":"We're, very rarely all in that"},{"startTime":1175.953,"endTime":1177.569,"body":"place all at once  and that the"},{"startTime":1177.569,"endTime":1178.956,"body":"story is still being carried."},{"startTime":1178.989,"endTime":1180.439,"body":"It's also still being carried by"},{"startTime":1180.439,"endTime":1181.629,"body":"the nuts and bolts that you put in"},{"startTime":1181.629,"endTime":1183.599,"body":"place in rehearsal  and that's the"},{"startTime":1183.599,"endTime":1185.403,"body":"point of the rehearsal is  to, create"},{"startTime":1185.403,"endTime":1187.443,"body":"something that to create the bare bones"},{"startTime":1187.443,"endTime":1189.373,"body":"of something that tells the story."},{"startTime":1189.373,"endTime":1191.206,"body":"That's the director's job is  to"},{"startTime":1191.206,"endTime":1192.476,"body":"make sure that's in place."},{"startTime":1192.539,"endTime":1195.006,"body":"So to your question about  the envelope"},{"startTime":1195.016,"endTime":1196.686,"body":"of good enough, which I really love"},{"startTime":1196.736,"endTime":1198.356,"body":"you have to rely on the fact that all"},{"startTime":1198.356,"endTime":1200.056,"body":"those other nuts and bolts were in the"},{"startTime":1200.056,"endTime":1201.556,"body":"right place at the right time, and maybe"},{"startTime":1201.556,"endTime":1203.379,"body":"you didn't feel it tonight,  and maybe"},{"startTime":1203.399,"endTime":1203.729,"body":"Mm."},{"startTime":1203.899,"endTime":1205.549,"body":"didn't shine as much as you know"},{"startTime":1205.559,"endTime":1207.379,"body":"it can do,  but in the context"},{"startTime":1207.379,"endTime":1209.113,"body":"of the whole,  that's enough."},{"startTime":1209.113,"endTime":1210.343,"body":"I think that's so important."},{"startTime":1210.343,"endTime":1212.463,"body":"So Gillyanne mentioned safety."},{"startTime":1212.693,"endTime":1214.383,"body":"Can you talk to us about safety?"},{"startTime":1214.383,"endTime":1215.603,"body":"What does that mean to you?"},{"startTime":1215.603,"endTime":1218.163,"body":"Safety means to me the thing"},{"startTime":1218.163,"endTime":1219.423,"body":"that keeps me up at night."},{"startTime":1219.753,"endTime":1223.186,"body":"Safety is vocal production  within a"},{"startTime":1223.246,"endTime":1225.689,"body":"comfortable limit  of your ability."},{"startTime":1225.924,"endTime":1228.118,"body":"Safety is essentially  your"},{"startTime":1228.128,"endTime":1230.149,"body":"70 or 80 percent performance."},{"startTime":1230.199,"endTime":1231.389,"body":"It's not your one off"},{"startTime":1231.399,"endTime":1232.582,"body":"recording performance."},{"startTime":1232.605,"endTime":1234.775,"body":"It's not your one off cabaret performance."},{"startTime":1234.842,"endTime":1236.372,"body":"It's your eight shows a week."},{"startTime":1236.475,"endTime":1237.135,"body":"performance."},{"startTime":1237.195,"endTime":1240.645,"body":"And and finding that limit, that, that"},{"startTime":1240.665,"endTime":1242.445,"body":"can be one of the most challenging"},{"startTime":1242.455,"endTime":1244.325,"body":"things we work on in a one to one"},{"startTime":1244.325,"endTime":1246.682,"body":"session,  is I know you can give this,"},{"startTime":1246.712,"endTime":1249.219,"body":"and I know  that to you, especially for"},{"startTime":1249.219,"endTime":1251.599,"body":"the actors, actually who, have the actor"},{"startTime":1251.599,"endTime":1254.492,"body":"minds    it, is anathema to them,  the"},{"startTime":1254.492,"endTime":1257.072,"body":"idea of pulling back on that storytelling."},{"startTime":1257.072,"endTime":1258.412,"body":"their perception that they're pulling"},{"startTime":1258.412,"endTime":1260.152,"body":"back, but of course they're ignoring"},{"startTime":1260.272,"endTime":1261.952,"body":"that their base level of storytelling"},{"startTime":1261.952,"endTime":1263.889,"body":"is stellar  and that we could just"},{"startTime":1264.069,"endTime":1265.619,"body":"listen to them read, the telephone"},{"startTime":1265.619,"endTime":1266.879,"body":"book and get a story out of it."},{"startTime":1266.939,"endTime":1268.955,"body":"They're forgetting that  but  helping"},{"startTime":1268.955,"endTime":1271.815,"body":"them learn to live with a performance that"},{"startTime":1271.825,"endTime":1276.515,"body":"doesn't feel like  they're 150 percent,"},{"startTime":1276.545,"endTime":1278.745,"body":"which is so exciting and they want to"},{"startTime":1278.745,"endTime":1280.877,"body":"deliver  And just saying you could, you"},{"startTime":1280.877,"endTime":1282.365,"body":"can maybe have one of those in a week."},{"startTime":1282.42,"endTime":1283.14,"body":"I'll give you one."},{"startTime":1283.14,"endTime":1284.64,"body":"But if you try and give me eight of"},{"startTime":1284.64,"endTime":1287.47,"body":"those,  then  we'll be talking on a Zoom"},{"startTime":1287.607,"endTime":1289.934,"body":"by Thursday  and, you'll be croaking and"},{"startTime":1289.934,"endTime":1291.474,"body":"you'll be off and you don't want that."},{"startTime":1291.692,"endTime":1294.182,"body":"Finding the safety means finding the"},{"startTime":1294.182,"endTime":1295.932,"body":"safe limits within which we can tell"},{"startTime":1295.932,"endTime":1297.372,"body":"the story to the best of our ability."},{"startTime":1297.372,"endTime":1298.882,"body":"And that changes from performer"},{"startTime":1298.949,"endTime":1300.575,"body":"to performer,  and there's"},{"startTime":1300.575,"endTime":1302.005,"body":"a lot of shame around it."},{"startTime":1302.335,"endTime":1303.769,"body":"There's a lot of, feelings of"},{"startTime":1303.769,"endTime":1306.115,"body":"obligation   For all performers,"},{"startTime":1306.115,"endTime":1308.085,"body":"but I find it is magnified in"},{"startTime":1308.085,"endTime":1309.822,"body":"our cabaret performers  because,"},{"startTime":1309.822,"endTime":1311.142,"body":"they're only there for a short time."},{"startTime":1311.192,"endTime":1313.252,"body":"They don't want to miss a single show."},{"startTime":1313.369,"endTime":1314.809,"body":"They're aware that people might have come"},{"startTime":1314.875,"endTime":1316.682,"body":"specifically because they're there  and"},{"startTime":1316.682,"endTime":1318.142,"body":"they really don't want to take the time,"},{"startTime":1318.142,"endTime":1320.359,"body":"but   we have to both build a performance"},{"startTime":1320.429,"endTime":1322.172,"body":"which  means that they won't  need"},{"startTime":1322.172,"endTime":1324.002,"body":"to take the time,  but if that  can't"},{"startTime":1324.012,"endTime":1326.932,"body":"happen because people get sick and  bugs"},{"startTime":1326.932,"endTime":1328.855,"body":"go around the building,  and because"},{"startTime":1328.925,"endTime":1331.642,"body":"ultimately this is a fragile, beautiful,"},{"startTime":1331.712,"endTime":1334.602,"body":"living piece of tissue, it can't always"},{"startTime":1334.792,"endTime":1336.829,"body":"be bulletproof  then we have to be able"},{"startTime":1336.829,"endTime":1338.819,"body":"to say it's not safe for you to go on"},{"startTime":1338.819,"endTime":1340.639,"body":"tonight, I need you to take a rest."},{"startTime":1340.639,"endTime":1341.889,"body":"and that rest is going to be as"},{"startTime":1341.889,"endTime":1344.215,"body":"long as it  until it is safe again."},{"startTime":1344.332,"endTime":1345.822,"body":"That's a really hard conversation."},{"startTime":1345.822,"endTime":1348.092,"body":"And do you take that decision with"},{"startTime":1348.092,"endTime":1350.212,"body":"the performer or do you sometimes get"},{"startTime":1350.232,"endTime":1352.282,"body":"external help for that, for instance"},{"startTime":1352.302,"endTime":1354.769,"body":"from a laryngologist  or, a physio?"},{"startTime":1354.829,"endTime":1355.239,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1355.287,"endTime":1355.917,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":1355.917,"endTime":1357.327,"body":"It's a, it's teamwork."},{"startTime":1357.377,"endTime":1359.107,"body":"Ultimately, it's the performer's decision."},{"startTime":1359.107,"endTime":1359.957,"body":"It's their body."},{"startTime":1360.557,"endTime":1361.662,"body":"It's their career."},{"startTime":1361.697,"endTime":1362.687,"body":"It's their decision."},{"startTime":1362.752,"endTime":1364.982,"body":"We are there to advise and in"},{"startTime":1364.982,"endTime":1367.215,"body":"our experience to say,  look,"},{"startTime":1367.925,"endTime":1369.405,"body":"when I've seen this before,"},{"startTime":1369.405,"endTime":1370.849,"body":"I'm  This is how long it takes."},{"startTime":1370.939,"endTime":1372.849,"body":"I advise that you take this time."},{"startTime":1372.952,"endTime":1374.812,"body":"But it is just advice and they have"},{"startTime":1374.812,"endTime":1376.732,"body":"to decide and if they decide to go on"},{"startTime":1376.802,"endTime":1378.342,"body":"then it is my job to try and support"},{"startTime":1378.382,"endTime":1379.922,"body":"them as best I can and for us to"},{"startTime":1380.102,"endTime":1380.652,"body":"Yes,"},{"startTime":1380.662,"endTime":1382.889,"body":"muster together a plan B performance"},{"startTime":1383.346,"endTime":1384.856,"body":"yeah, make adjustments."},{"startTime":1385.216,"endTime":1385.396,"body":"Yeah,"},{"startTime":1385.765,"endTime":1386.535,"body":"cope with that night."},{"startTime":1386.535,"endTime":1388.565,"body":"I just want to go into something"},{"startTime":1388.595,"endTime":1390.225,"body":"because that's such a clear answer."},{"startTime":1390.235,"endTime":1392.295,"body":"It's also very nuanced answer as well."},{"startTime":1392.295,"endTime":1393.195,"body":"And you're absolutely right"},{"startTime":1393.335,"endTime":1395.515,"body":"that changes per performer,"},{"startTime":1395.562,"endTime":1397.392,"body":"because safety limits are"},{"startTime":1397.392,"endTime":1398.812,"body":"really interesting per person."},{"startTime":1398.935,"endTime":1400.422,"body":"What I think is fascinating is that"},{"startTime":1400.422,"endTime":1402.062,"body":"there's an also an underlying thing, and"},{"startTime":1402.062,"endTime":1403.922,"body":"you've highlighted this and I love this."},{"startTime":1404.022,"endTime":1404.912,"body":"It's the idea that."},{"startTime":1404.912,"endTime":1406.192,"body":"You've got people in the audience"},{"startTime":1406.192,"endTime":1407.802,"body":"coming to see you specifically,"},{"startTime":1407.802,"endTime":1408.802,"body":"they've paid a lot of money to"},{"startTime":1408.812,"endTime":1409.912,"body":"come and see you, there's a sort of"},{"startTime":1409.912,"endTime":1412.242,"body":"expectation, there's a responsibility."},{"startTime":1412.242,"endTime":1414.182,"body":"And it's almost like this, it"},{"startTime":1414.182,"endTime":1416.112,"body":"feels like this one thing that the"},{"startTime":1416.112,"endTime":1417.902,"body":"performer is missing, and it's,"},{"startTime":1418.302,"endTime":1419.912,"body":"I'm going back to casting again."},{"startTime":1420.192,"endTime":1423.032,"body":"Which is, they,  you just walking onto"},{"startTime":1423.172,"endTime":1424.932,"body":"the stage has given them what they want."},{"startTime":1424.932,"endTime":1425.602,"body":"That's it."},{"startTime":1425.652,"endTime":1426.952,"body":"Literally, you could walk onto"},{"startTime":1426.952,"endTime":1428.212,"body":"the stage, open your mouth, say"},{"startTime":1428.212,"endTime":1429.232,"body":"nothing, and walk off again."},{"startTime":1429.315,"endTime":1431.255,"body":"And there is an element of,"},{"startTime":1431.345,"endTime":1432.685,"body":"I've just seen that person."},{"startTime":1433.185,"endTime":1435.145,"body":"Rather than going, I need to give"},{"startTime":1435.155,"endTime":1437.825,"body":"my absolute best every night."},{"startTime":1437.825,"endTime":1439.715,"body":"Which, my absolute best is 100%,"},{"startTime":1440.225,"endTime":1441.825,"body":"and I, like you said, I would"},{"startTime":1441.835,"endTime":1443.055,"body":"be on the floor by Thursday."},{"startTime":1443.605,"endTime":1445.095,"body":"There's also a longevity thing,"},{"startTime":1445.095,"endTime":1447.295,"body":"which is, I need to give what I"},{"startTime":1447.325,"endTime":1450.525,"body":"can,  that works, and that makes me"},{"startTime":1450.525,"endTime":1452.875,"body":"feel satisfied,  over the whole run."},{"startTime":1452.935,"endTime":1454.855,"body":"And so there's a time thing as well."},{"startTime":1455.105,"endTime":1456.495,"body":"Which is, yes, you can give 100 percent"},{"startTime":1456.495,"endTime":1457.715,"body":"if you want to on the first night."},{"startTime":1458.175,"endTime":1459.265,"body":"And what about the second,"},{"startTime":1459.295,"endTime":1461.105,"body":"and the third, and 90th?"},{"startTime":1461.232,"endTime":1462.715,"body":"It's  there's a time limit, but"},{"startTime":1462.715,"endTime":1464.765,"body":"there's also a belief that you"},{"startTime":1464.765,"endTime":1467.115,"body":"are good enough doing what you"},{"startTime":1467.335,"endTime":1467.575,"body":"mm,"},{"startTime":1467.615,"endTime":1469.905,"body":"You don't actually need to do any more."},{"startTime":1470.085,"endTime":1470.495,"body":"yeah."},{"startTime":1470.765,"endTime":1473.185,"body":"It's, so hard for, I I agree with you, but"},{"startTime":1473.185,"endTime":1475.135,"body":"it's so hard for them to live with, and I"},{"startTime":1475.135,"endTime":1476.849,"body":"think  we can probably relate to that as"},{"startTime":1476.849,"endTime":1478.985,"body":"teachers,   the days where you show up and"},{"startTime":1478.985,"endTime":1481.229,"body":"you,  all your senses are on,  all your"},{"startTime":1481.242,"endTime":1484.702,"body":"sixth sense is fully firing and you know"},{"startTime":1484.702,"endTime":1486.975,"body":"that you can see properly  and, that you"},{"startTime":1486.975,"endTime":1489.615,"body":"can use your tools to help that student."},{"startTime":1489.825,"endTime":1491.645,"body":"It's so exhilarating and it's so"},{"startTime":1491.645,"endTime":1493.612,"body":"rewarding, so wonderful  that it's"},{"startTime":1493.612,"endTime":1496.192,"body":"very easy to then think on the days"},{"startTime":1496.192,"endTime":1497.599,"body":"where, you didn't get full night's"},{"startTime":1497.599,"endTime":1499.389,"body":"sleep and the week's been really"},{"startTime":1499.389,"endTime":1500.769,"body":"tough and you're not, that sixth"},{"startTime":1500.769,"endTime":1502.735,"body":"sense is like  somebody's cut off"},{"startTime":1502.836,"endTime":1503.736,"body":"I've lost my touch"},{"startTime":1503.736,"endTime":1504.705,"body":"I've lost my touch."},{"startTime":1504.845,"endTime":1505.585,"body":"I'm no good."},{"startTime":1505.95,"endTime":1507.31,"body":"I'm no good, I have nothing to offer this"},{"startTime":1507.31,"endTime":1508.679,"body":"student because he's not there today."},{"startTime":1508.679,"endTime":1510.932,"body":"They have that  multiplied"},{"startTime":1511.182,"endTime":1513.235,"body":"a million times  on stage."},{"startTime":1513.285,"endTime":1515.275,"body":"And as I say, just helping them"},{"startTime":1515.285,"endTime":1516.925,"body":"find what you were describing,"},{"startTime":1516.925,"endTime":1518.815,"body":"the good enough envelope, but that"},{"startTime":1518.815,"endTime":1520.885,"body":"feels satisfying to them as well,"},{"startTime":1521.135,"endTime":1522.905,"body":"is really,  that's a challenge."},{"startTime":1522.955,"endTime":1524.459,"body":"But it's one that I engage in  very,"},{"startTime":1524.459,"endTime":1526.129,"body":"readily because it's a really important"},{"startTime":1526.129,"endTime":1527.629,"body":"one and I always say to them, you don't"},{"startTime":1527.679,"endTime":1529.569,"body":"owe this audience your voice,  you"},{"startTime":1529.569,"endTime":1532.122,"body":"don't owe them your vocal safety  and"},{"startTime":1532.312,"endTime":1534.322,"body":"this is one piece in what I hope"},{"startTime":1534.352,"endTime":1536.162,"body":"will be a long and beautiful career."},{"startTime":1536.192,"endTime":1538.055,"body":"So   yes, we have an obligation to"},{"startTime":1538.055,"endTime":1539.145,"body":"this production and we're going to do"},{"startTime":1539.145,"endTime":1541.205,"body":"the very best we can to get you on as"},{"startTime":1541.205,"endTime":1543.212,"body":"many times as we possibly can   but,"},{"startTime":1543.212,"endTime":1545.022,"body":"we don't owe anybody the function"},{"startTime":1545.022,"endTime":1546.572,"body":"of your voice, that's too precious."},{"startTime":1546.572,"endTime":1548.582,"body":"And on that note, I want to thank"},{"startTime":1548.582,"endTime":1550.945,"body":"you for having talked about  singing"},{"startTime":1550.945,"endTime":1553.615,"body":"within your vocal comfort zone."},{"startTime":1554.575,"endTime":1558.505,"body":"Because in a performance art, such"},{"startTime":1558.505,"endTime":1560.405,"body":"as musical theatre, there's often"},{"startTime":1560.405,"endTime":1564.085,"body":"this sense, this need that being in"},{"startTime":1564.085,"endTime":1566.145,"body":"your comfort zone is not good enough."},{"startTime":1566.215,"endTime":1568.315,"body":"You're, you need to stretch beyond."},{"startTime":1568.325,"endTime":1569.535,"body":"And of course, when you're being"},{"startTime":1569.535,"endTime":1572.415,"body":"educated, yes you will stretch."},{"startTime":1572.825,"endTime":1574.975,"body":"As my PhD was all about"},{"startTime":1574.985,"endTime":1576.575,"body":"looking at comfort zone."},{"startTime":1577.165,"endTime":1579.135,"body":"And I think it's such a powerful thing"},{"startTime":1579.135,"endTime":1581.045,"body":"that you've said, being in your position,"},{"startTime":1581.055,"endTime":1582.985,"body":"which is you've got to find your"},{"startTime":1583.015,"endTime":1585.595,"body":"comfort zone so that you can be safe."},{"startTime":1586.54,"endTime":1588.88,"body":"And that then comes back to working with"},{"startTime":1589.0,"endTime":1591.32,"body":"the actor minds who maybe don't have"},{"startTime":1591.32,"endTime":1593.84,"body":"as much singing training, that actually"},{"startTime":1594.81,"endTime":1597.07,"body":"then there's a bigger responsibility"},{"startTime":1597.07,"endTime":1599.22,"body":"for me to decide what is their safe"},{"startTime":1599.22,"endTime":1600.96,"body":"zone, because everything feels like"},{"startTime":1600.96,"endTime":1602.34,"body":"an out of comfort zone to them."},{"startTime":1602.99,"endTime":1603.45,"body":"So me"},{"startTime":1603.865,"endTime":1603.885,"body":"Yeah,"},{"startTime":1603.9,"endTime":1605.41,"body":"them to stay within their vocal"},{"startTime":1605.41,"endTime":1606.31,"body":"comfort zone, they're like"},{"startTime":1606.82,"endTime":1607.82,"body":"I don't, yet know what that"},{"startTime":1608.095,"endTime":1609.045,"body":"they don't know it."},{"startTime":1609.325,"endTime":1609.955,"body":"I understand."},{"startTime":1610.535,"endTime":1610.765,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1610.875,"endTime":1611.445,"body":"Very interesting."},{"startTime":1611.495,"endTime":1612.425,"body":"This is not a question so"},{"startTime":1612.425,"endTime":1613.905,"body":"much as a possible statement."},{"startTime":1614.015,"endTime":1616.625,"body":"the idea that singing voice, because"},{"startTime":1616.625,"endTime":1618.205,"body":"it's more extended in both pitch"},{"startTime":1618.205,"endTime":1621.525,"body":"and duration shows things up more."},{"startTime":1621.525,"endTime":1623.955,"body":"So I'm going to go, can you get away"},{"startTime":1623.955,"endTime":1627.195,"body":"with vocal problems as an actor that"},{"startTime":1627.195,"endTime":1628.785,"body":"you can't get away with as a singer?"},{"startTime":1629.36,"endTime":1632.98,"body":"Ooh, wow."},{"startTime":1634.24,"endTime":1635.72,"body":"okay, fair."},{"startTime":1636.63,"endTime":1638.11,"body":"We'll just have to have you back."},{"startTime":1638.29,"endTime":1640.53,"body":"Just say what, occurs to"},{"startTime":1640.595,"endTime":1645.655,"body":"What occurs to me is that I think that"},{"startTime":1645.665,"endTime":1648.425,"body":"might be true, but I feel like I might"},{"startTime":1648.425,"endTime":1650.375,"body":"have just opened myself up to a lot of"},{"startTime":1650.685,"endTime":1653.335,"body":"spoken voice practitioners going, No!"},{"startTime":1653.665,"endTime":1655.095,"body":"In which case, I'm really sorry."},{"startTime":1655.265,"endTime":1657.675,"body":"Wow that's, a humdinger of a question."},{"startTime":1658.055,"endTime":1659.725,"body":"Certainly it is the case that the"},{"startTime":1659.725,"endTime":1662.995,"body":"sustained quality means that we have"},{"startTime":1662.995,"endTime":1664.665,"body":"to be very careful about how we work"},{"startTime":1664.665,"endTime":1666.625,"body":"around a voice that is struggling."},{"startTime":1667.62,"endTime":1669.83,"body":"Yes, because we sustain pitch."},{"startTime":1669.83,"endTime":1670.61,"body":"Great answer."},{"startTime":1670.8,"endTime":1671.21,"body":"Yep."},{"startTime":1671.69,"endTime":1672.67,"body":"It's as simple as that"},{"startTime":1672.695,"endTime":1672.925,"body":"Shall I"},{"startTime":1672.955,"endTime":1673.205,"body":"apply"},{"startTime":1673.295,"endTime":1674.465,"body":"a position as an MP now?"},{"startTime":1674.685,"endTime":1674.915,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1675.47,"endTime":1675.49,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1675.49,"endTime":1676.34,"body":"Oh."},{"startTime":1676.43,"endTime":1677.07,"body":"Great answer."},{"startTime":1677.18,"endTime":1677.66,"body":"Oh."},{"startTime":1677.7,"endTime":1678.46,"body":"Don't we have to have something"},{"startTime":1678.46,"endTime":1679.42,"body":"controversial on here?"},{"startTime":1679.5,"endTime":1679.77,"body":"sure."},{"startTime":1679.88,"endTime":1680.84,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":1680.84,"endTime":1682.94,"body":"Claire, this has been amazing."},{"startTime":1682.94,"endTime":1685.3,"body":"I'm so pleased that I'm thrilled"},{"startTime":1685.31,"endTime":1687.39,"body":"that you are our first guest on this"},{"startTime":1687.58,"endTime":1689.19,"body":"I'm delighted and honoured."},{"startTime":1689.19,"endTime":1690.77,"body":"Thank you both."},{"startTime":1690.77,"endTime":1692.87,"body":"And thank you for the work that you"},{"startTime":1692.87,"endTime":1695.12,"body":"do in talking about all these things."},{"startTime":1695.14,"endTime":1697.31,"body":"It is so important and such a comfort"},{"startTime":1697.35,"endTime":1698.79,"body":"as a vocal practitioner to have"},{"startTime":1699.64,"endTime":1700.755,"body":"conversations happening because"},{"startTime":1700.755,"endTime":1701.7,"body":"otherwise you just feel like you're"},{"startTime":1701.7,"endTime":1704.56,"body":"in an echo chamber of your own making."},{"startTime":1705.11,"endTime":1705.6,"body":"Thank you."},{"startTime":1705.6,"endTime":1708.32,"body":"So we will actually hopefully"},{"startTime":1708.33,"endTime":1709.78,"body":"see you again because we're"},{"startTime":1709.78,"endTime":1710.85,"body":"going to have you back on."},{"startTime":1710.9,"endTime":1712.48,"body":"Oh, we've got a bit more to talk about."},{"startTime":1712.48,"endTime":1714.07,"body":"I think we've got a few more"},{"startTime":1714.07,"endTime":1716.08,"body":"things we can maybe just discuss."},{"startTime":1716.58,"endTime":1717.69,"body":"But that's it for the moment."},{"startTime":1717.69,"endTime":1718.57,"body":"Thank you so much, Claire."},{"startTime":1718.57,"endTime":1718.93,"body":"Thank"},{"startTime":1718.93,"endTime":1719.08,"body":"you."},{"startTime":1730.929,"endTime":1733.869,"body":"This is a voice, a podcast"},{"startTime":1733.869,"endTime":1736.044,"body":"with Dr. Gillyanne Kayes and Jeremy"},{"startTime":1736.044,"endTime":1736.329,"body":"Fisher."}]}