{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":11.71,"endTime":14.65,"body":"This is a voice, a podcast"},{"startTime":14.65,"endTime":16.48,"body":"with Dr. Gillyanne Kayes and"},{"startTime":16.59,"endTime":19.75,"body":"Jeremy Fisher This Is a voice."},{"startTime":21.67,"endTime":23.17,"body":"Hello and welcome to, this is A Voice,"},{"startTime":23.17,"endTime":25.78,"body":"season 11, episode five, the podcast"},{"startTime":25.78,"endTime":27.58,"body":"where we get Vocal about voice."},{"startTime":27.58,"endTime":28.42,"body":"I'm Jeremy Fisher."},{"startTime":28.54,"endTime":30.34,"body":"And I'm Dr. Gillyanne Kayes We have"},{"startTime":30.34,"endTime":32.02,"body":"been so excited about our guest"},{"startTime":32.02,"endTime":34.37,"body":"today we think of him as a New York"},{"startTime":34.4,"endTime":37.01,"body":"Vocal coach and so much more because"},{"startTime":37.01,"endTime":38.96,"body":"we have Mike Ruckles with us today."},{"startTime":39.225,"endTime":41.535,"body":"And Mike is a Vocal coach, a pianist,"},{"startTime":41.535,"endTime":43.185,"body":"a musical director, a composer, a"},{"startTime":43.185,"endTime":45.225,"body":"lecturer, a singing voice specialist"},{"startTime":45.225,"endTime":46.335,"body":"working in musical theater and"},{"startTime":46.335,"endTime":48.435,"body":"contemporary commercial worlds clients,"},{"startTime":48.435,"endTime":50.955,"body":"include Tony Grammy and Oscar winners."},{"startTime":50.955,"endTime":51.975,"body":"He's worked as a production"},{"startTime":51.975,"endTime":53.235,"body":"Vocal coach on several long"},{"startTime":53.235,"endTime":55.185,"body":"running Broadway shows and films."},{"startTime":55.515,"endTime":57.075,"body":"Worked on faculties of several"},{"startTime":57.075,"endTime":59.025,"body":"prestigious New York organizations"},{"startTime":59.235,"endTime":60.765,"body":"and has worked as a pianist with a"},{"startTime":60.765,"endTime":63.165,"body":"number of high level artists, including"},{"startTime":63.165,"endTime":64.945,"body":"Hugh Jackman, Tyne Daly Ben, Vereen"},{"startTime":64.965,"endTime":67.365,"body":"and my favorite Ursula of all time."},{"startTime":67.595,"endTime":68.685,"body":"Sherie Rene Scott."},{"startTime":70.038,"endTime":70.328,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":70.425,"endTime":70.905,"body":"Mike."},{"startTime":71.358,"endTime":71.578,"body":"Hi."},{"startTime":71.773,"endTime":72.523,"body":"Hello."},{"startTime":73.485,"endTime":74.295,"body":"welcome."},{"startTime":74.833,"endTime":76.363,"body":"Oh, I'm so pleased to be here."},{"startTime":76.875,"endTime":79.125,"body":"this sounds like Renaissance man."},{"startTime":79.175,"endTime":81.485,"body":"You are really multi-skilled."},{"startTime":81.49,"endTime":81.52,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":82.333,"endTime":84.193,"body":"When you list it like that, I"},{"startTime":84.193,"endTime":85.903,"body":"go, that can't possibly be true."},{"startTime":85.903,"endTime":88.063,"body":"I can't, I haven't done all those things."},{"startTime":88.243,"endTime":88.963,"body":"I appreciate it."},{"startTime":88.963,"endTime":90.683,"body":"It's very it is a great boost"},{"startTime":90.683,"endTime":91.733,"body":"to the ego this morning."},{"startTime":91.885,"endTime":92.175,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":92.23,"endTime":92.5,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":92.68,"endTime":93.37,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":93.43,"endTime":95.26,"body":"So welcome and we've already done"},{"startTime":95.26,"endTime":97.62,"body":"a couple of editions with Claire"},{"startTime":97.71,"endTime":98.97,"body":"Underwood, who is a production"},{"startTime":98.97,"endTime":100.62,"body":"Vocal coach on, in the West End."},{"startTime":100.625,"endTime":101.825,"body":"And we thought we wanted to"},{"startTime":101.825,"endTime":103.565,"body":"get the Broadway version."},{"startTime":103.565,"endTime":104.435,"body":"So welcome."},{"startTime":104.435,"endTime":105.905,"body":"We're really excited to talk to"},{"startTime":105.905,"endTime":107.705,"body":"you and also about the similarities"},{"startTime":107.705,"endTime":109.055,"body":"and differences of working in"},{"startTime":109.055,"endTime":110.465,"body":"all the worlds that you do."},{"startTime":110.56,"endTime":111.19,"body":"And cool."},{"startTime":111.19,"endTime":113.53,"body":"And I wanted to say, you and I, Mike,"},{"startTime":113.53,"endTime":115.93,"body":"we've been connecting via social"},{"startTime":115.93,"endTime":118.75,"body":"media for several years actually."},{"startTime":119.32,"endTime":121.12,"body":"And the occasional private"},{"startTime":121.12,"endTime":122.97,"body":"messages between us about, perhaps"},{"startTime":122.97,"endTime":124.29,"body":"topics about voice that might"},{"startTime":124.29,"endTime":126.18,"body":"be considered a bit contentious."},{"startTime":126.3,"endTime":128.75,"body":"And I really appreciate, the"},{"startTime":128.75,"endTime":129.74,"body":"connection that we've had."},{"startTime":129.74,"endTime":131.66,"body":"So to actually meet you in"},{"startTime":131.66,"endTime":134.72,"body":"person is really quite special."},{"startTime":134.72,"endTime":136.55,"body":"So thank you for being here today."},{"startTime":136.55,"endTime":136.58,"body":"I."},{"startTime":137.003,"endTime":138.983,"body":"Well, I am deeply honored."},{"startTime":139.033,"endTime":140.923,"body":"I could not be more pleased to be here."},{"startTime":140.923,"endTime":143.233,"body":"And likewise, you have been such an"},{"startTime":143.233,"endTime":145.363,"body":"invaluable resource I know for all"},{"startTime":145.363,"endTime":147.563,"body":"of us, but particularly for me to be"},{"startTime":147.563,"endTime":150.123,"body":"able to bounce ideas off of you has"},{"startTime":150.123,"endTime":152.333,"body":"just been, it's been game changing."},{"startTime":152.333,"endTime":154.403,"body":"So, so thank you for both of you,"},{"startTime":154.403,"endTime":156.303,"body":"for your mission both as Vocal"},{"startTime":156.303,"endTime":158.703,"body":"educators, as lovers of the arts."},{"startTime":158.703,"endTime":160.173,"body":"It is, it's really inspiring."},{"startTime":160.53,"endTime":161.1,"body":"Thank you."},{"startTime":161.16,"endTime":161.73,"body":"Thank you."},{"startTime":161.973,"endTime":162.783,"body":"My pleasure."},{"startTime":162.87,"endTime":166.17,"body":"We wanna know what brought you to do"},{"startTime":166.17,"endTime":168.03,"body":"the work that you do, because it's quite"},{"startTime":168.03,"endTime":170.58,"body":"a wide range of things that you do and"},{"startTime":170.61,"endTime":172.5,"body":"you've got a lot of history to get there."},{"startTime":172.5,"endTime":173.64,"body":"So what brought you to it?"},{"startTime":173.715,"endTime":175.245,"body":"Well, I would say, given that long"},{"startTime":175.245,"endTime":177.555,"body":"list, some of those things I no longer"},{"startTime":177.555,"endTime":179.755,"body":"do or haven't done in many years."},{"startTime":179.755,"endTime":180.925,"body":"I can't remember the last time I"},{"startTime":180.925,"endTime":182.935,"body":"actually wrote something, for example."},{"startTime":182.965,"endTime":184.435,"body":"And it's been many years since I was"},{"startTime":184.435,"endTime":188.005,"body":"an md, but it's really a good question"},{"startTime":188.005,"endTime":189.685,"body":"because it's hard to say which came first."},{"startTime":189.685,"endTime":191.665,"body":"The chicken or the egg in terms of."},{"startTime":192.04,"endTime":194.38,"body":"Voice teaching or music direction?"},{"startTime":194.38,"endTime":197.08,"body":"I feel like for me, both pathways"},{"startTime":197.08,"endTime":200.05,"body":"were developing simultaneously."},{"startTime":200.41,"endTime":202.24,"body":"Certainly I started as a singer, I was"},{"startTime":202.24,"endTime":204.22,"body":"always singing, you couldn't stop me."},{"startTime":204.43,"endTime":205.66,"body":"Very odd because neither of my"},{"startTime":205.66,"endTime":207.31,"body":"parents are particularly musical."},{"startTime":207.31,"endTime":208.87,"body":"They didn't know where this came from."},{"startTime":209.51,"endTime":211.22,"body":"And I just recall from a very early"},{"startTime":211.22,"endTime":213.35,"body":"age being obsessed with the human voice"},{"startTime":213.35,"endTime":215.54,"body":"and all the colors that were possible."},{"startTime":215.54,"endTime":217.725,"body":"And I, the I just recall the other"},{"startTime":217.725,"endTime":219.585,"body":"kids being out playing and I was"},{"startTime":219.585,"endTime":220.995,"body":"the kid who was inside with the"},{"startTime":220.995,"endTime":222.855,"body":"headphones on much like this and"},{"startTime":222.855,"endTime":224.025,"body":"my, do you remember cassette tapes?"},{"startTime":224.342,"endTime":224.682,"body":"we do."},{"startTime":225.735,"endTime":226.305,"body":"You remember them."},{"startTime":226.665,"endTime":228.495,"body":"And I was listening to cast recordings"},{"startTime":228.495,"endTime":230.385,"body":"and some opera I'd checked out from the"},{"startTime":230.385,"endTime":232.335,"body":"library or maybe I'd be sitting at the"},{"startTime":232.335,"endTime":235.065,"body":"piano plunking through a Vocal selection."},{"startTime":235.065,"endTime":237.405,"body":"That was what was exciting to me."},{"startTime":237.525,"endTime":239.655,"body":"I began piano lessons probably,"},{"startTime":239.655,"endTime":240.855,"body":"I think it was around six."},{"startTime":240.855,"endTime":242.145,"body":"And I continued with that all the"},{"startTime":242.145,"endTime":244.535,"body":"way through high school doing piano"},{"startTime":244.535,"endTime":246.305,"body":"competitions in the whole nine yards."},{"startTime":246.305,"endTime":249.605,"body":"And so I think my parents naturally"},{"startTime":249.605,"endTime":251.555,"body":"assumed that I was going to be a piano"},{"startTime":251.555,"endTime":254.225,"body":"performance major, but I really could not"},{"startTime":254.225,"endTime":255.815,"body":"have been less interested in that path."},{"startTime":255.815,"endTime":257.555,"body":"And I wanted to pursue"},{"startTime":257.795,"endTime":259.025,"body":"my love of the voice."},{"startTime":259.055,"endTime":262.295,"body":"And so, long story short, I was in"},{"startTime":262.295,"endTime":263.915,"body":"college as a voice major, classical"},{"startTime":263.915,"endTime":265.755,"body":"voice, of course, because at"},{"startTime":265.755,"endTime":267.225,"body":"particularly at that time, that was"},{"startTime":267.225,"endTime":269.295,"body":"the only kind of voice degree one could"},{"startTime":269.517,"endTime":271.197,"body":"But I began to make pocket money as"},{"startTime":271.197,"endTime":272.937,"body":"an accompanist in the voice studios."},{"startTime":273.282,"endTime":275.172,"body":"And that was where my"},{"startTime":275.172,"endTime":276.792,"body":"education really began."},{"startTime":276.792,"endTime":278.352,"body":"And Jeremy, I'm certain you would"},{"startTime":278.352,"endTime":279.972,"body":"agree, if you have the ability"},{"startTime":280.212,"endTime":282.072,"body":"and the opportunity to play"},{"startTime":282.072,"endTime":283.662,"body":"for singers and accompany voice"},{"startTime":283.662,"endTime":286.302,"body":"lessons, jump at that opportunity."},{"startTime":287.065,"endTime":287.245,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":287.285,"endTime":288.035,"body":"It's so interesting it's"},{"startTime":288.035,"endTime":289.24,"body":"not dissimilar to your past."},{"startTime":289.24,"endTime":290.705,"body":"It's very similar to my past as well."},{"startTime":290.705,"endTime":291.425,"body":"It's not dissimilar."},{"startTime":291.592,"endTime":291.832,"body":"Oh, is"},{"startTime":292.085,"endTime":292.985,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"startTime":293.015,"endTime":294.335,"body":"Piano lessons at six."},{"startTime":294.395,"endTime":296.725,"body":"Went to college as a piano player and"},{"startTime":296.725,"endTime":298.915,"body":"got interested in voice the whole thing."},{"startTime":298.915,"endTime":299.785,"body":"Really interesting."},{"startTime":300.115,"endTime":300.445,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":301.182,"endTime":302.502,"body":"And so, it was, oh, go ahead, Gillyanne."},{"startTime":302.845,"endTime":304.465,"body":"I've just wanted to say with you,"},{"startTime":304.465,"endTime":306.775,"body":"Jeremy, you did sing in church, you"},{"startTime":306.775,"endTime":308.575,"body":"were a choir boy, very high soprano."},{"startTime":308.575,"endTime":308.755,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":309.365,"endTime":310.535,"body":"But you didn't really"},{"startTime":310.535,"endTime":313.145,"body":"consider yourself as a singer."},{"startTime":313.175,"endTime":313.385,"body":"No."},{"startTime":314.195,"endTime":315.395,"body":"And I know what happened with"},{"startTime":315.395,"endTime":317.105,"body":"Jeremy was that the reason why he"},{"startTime":317.105,"endTime":319.115,"body":"started coaching singers was 'cause"},{"startTime":319.205,"endTime":320.615,"body":"he was fed up with them not being"},{"startTime":320.615,"endTime":322.475,"body":"able to do what they needed to do."},{"startTime":322.48,"endTime":322.74,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":322.985,"endTime":323.135,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":323.135,"endTime":324.035,"body":"It's just frustration."},{"startTime":324.035,"endTime":325.775,"body":"But like you, Mike, he sat"},{"startTime":325.775,"endTime":328.465,"body":"in on so many Vocal lessons."},{"startTime":328.615,"endTime":328.675,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":328.795,"endTime":330.685,"body":"And it's a real learning curve, isn't it?"},{"startTime":331.347,"endTime":332.127,"body":"absolutely."},{"startTime":332.127,"endTime":333.987,"body":"It was absolutely invaluable."},{"startTime":333.987,"endTime":336.847,"body":"And I began to sort out in my mind"},{"startTime":336.847,"endTime":339.247,"body":"what good and or efficient voice"},{"startTime":339.277,"endTime":340.432,"body":"instruction really looked like."},{"startTime":340.567,"endTime":342.277,"body":"What strategies seemed to really work,"},{"startTime":342.277,"endTime":345.427,"body":"which ones didn't, which teachers were"},{"startTime":345.427,"endTime":347.707,"body":"really natural and wonderful communicators"},{"startTime":347.707,"endTime":349.957,"body":"of what they were doing as performers,"},{"startTime":350.347,"endTime":352.597,"body":"not just able to sing gorgeously at"},{"startTime":352.597,"endTime":354.337,"body":"the student and then have them attempt"},{"startTime":354.337,"endTime":356.467,"body":"to mimic it back, which was honestly"},{"startTime":356.467,"endTime":358.207,"body":"a lot of the teaching that I saw."},{"startTime":358.597,"endTime":360.877,"body":"But to really be able to articulate"},{"startTime":360.877,"endTime":362.617,"body":"what they were doing and to guide"},{"startTime":362.617,"endTime":364.327,"body":"that singer with their words."},{"startTime":364.787,"endTime":365.777,"body":"And I observed the difference"},{"startTime":365.777,"endTime":367.247,"body":"between teachers who were actually,"},{"startTime":367.397,"endTime":368.267,"body":"know,"},{"startTime":368.347,"endTime":369.252,"body":"No slight against 'em."},{"startTime":369.257,"endTime":370.867,"body":"They were actually very gifted coaches."},{"startTime":370.867,"endTime":372.067,"body":"They were skilled at communicating"},{"startTime":372.067,"endTime":374.977,"body":"interpretation and style and phrasing"},{"startTime":375.187,"endTime":376.807,"body":"versus teachers of technique who"},{"startTime":376.807,"endTime":378.127,"body":"could really take you from point A"},{"startTime":378.127,"endTime":380.857,"body":"to point B in your Vocal progression."},{"startTime":380.915,"endTime":382.175,"body":"Can I just say that is so"},{"startTime":382.175,"endTime":383.495,"body":"exciting to hear you say that."},{"startTime":383.53,"endTime":386.325,"body":"Because I am a 100% with you on that."},{"startTime":386.38,"endTime":387.97,"body":"And I also think it's really fascinating"},{"startTime":388.0,"endTime":389.8,"body":"as a piano player, when you are playing"},{"startTime":389.81,"endTime":393.29,"body":"for in a studio, you are also an observer,"},{"startTime":393.29,"endTime":395.33,"body":"but you are an active participant as well."},{"startTime":395.33,"endTime":397.28,"body":"And it's a really interesting position"},{"startTime":397.28,"endTime":400.13,"body":"to be in that you can also judge"},{"startTime":400.13,"endTime":401.84,"body":"what the teacher is doing, what the"},{"startTime":401.84,"endTime":403.28,"body":"student is doing, what's working,"},{"startTime":403.28,"endTime":405.8,"body":"what isn't you, and you pick up an"},{"startTime":405.8,"endTime":408.5,"body":"enormous amount of information on"},{"startTime":408.5,"endTime":409.91,"body":"things that work and things that don't."},{"startTime":409.96,"endTime":411.115,"body":"Love hearing you talk about that."},{"startTime":411.185,"endTime":411.555,"body":"It's great."},{"startTime":411.695,"endTime":413.59,"body":"And I just want to ask you, Mike, and"},{"startTime":413.59,"endTime":415.33,"body":"again, I'm drawing from what Jeremy's"},{"startTime":415.38,"endTime":418.68,"body":"told me if the singer is comfortable"},{"startTime":418.68,"endTime":420.21,"body":"and happy with what they're doing and"},{"startTime":420.21,"endTime":421.71,"body":"that, they've received the guidance they"},{"startTime":421.71,"endTime":424.56,"body":"need, they obviously sing it differently."},{"startTime":425.94,"endTime":427.95,"body":"Did you find as an accompanist"},{"startTime":427.98,"endTime":429.84,"body":"that you began to play differently?"},{"startTime":429.84,"endTime":431.52,"body":"You could play differently for"},{"startTime":431.52,"endTime":433.38,"body":"them because that had happened?"},{"startTime":433.38,"endTime":434.88,"body":"Is that anything you noticed?"},{"startTime":436.592,"endTime":438.302,"body":"You are onto something very interesting"},{"startTime":438.302,"endTime":440.222,"body":"and almost metaphysical there."},{"startTime":440.372,"endTime":442.232,"body":"Gillyanne and I have observed"},{"startTime":442.232,"endTime":443.552,"body":"this and I continue to observe"},{"startTime":443.552,"endTime":444.992,"body":"this in the Voice studio."},{"startTime":444.992,"endTime":447.302,"body":"It's a funny thing when a singer"},{"startTime":447.302,"endTime":450.482,"body":"has arrived at that place where the"},{"startTime":450.482,"endTime":452.582,"body":"technique can go in the backseat and"},{"startTime":452.582,"endTime":454.802,"body":"they can just be about the storytelling."},{"startTime":454.802,"endTime":457.052,"body":"They can just be about what they wanna do"},{"startTime":457.052,"endTime":458.732,"body":"with the phrasing and the interpretation."},{"startTime":459.332,"endTime":461.762,"body":"I notice that my own playing improves"},{"startTime":462.452,"endTime":464.372,"body":"as I accompany them, and I cannot."},{"startTime":464.927,"endTime":466.897,"body":"I cannot put it into direct words,"},{"startTime":467.197,"endTime":469.302,"body":"but I, I suppose part of it is"},{"startTime":469.302,"endTime":472.112,"body":"that my CPU, my brain is able to"},{"startTime":472.352,"endTime":474.662,"body":"attend more to what's on the page."},{"startTime":475.602,"endTime":477.582,"body":"And less to, okay, where are we gonna go?"},{"startTime":477.582,"endTime":479.412,"body":"Technically, how am I gonna tweak this?"},{"startTime":479.412,"endTime":481.212,"body":"How am I gonna, what is my next strategy?"},{"startTime":481.422,"endTime":482.802,"body":"So I suppose that's some of it."},{"startTime":483.072,"endTime":484.182,"body":"But I noticed this even when"},{"startTime":484.182,"endTime":485.232,"body":"I wasn't voice teaching."},{"startTime":485.232,"endTime":487.372,"body":"I noticed that when the singer had arrived"},{"startTime":487.372,"endTime":491.152,"body":"at that place where they had not, I don't"},{"startTime":491.152,"endTime":492.832,"body":"know that we ever have mastery of our"},{"startTime":492.832,"endTime":495.022,"body":"technique but they had arrived at a level"},{"startTime":495.202,"endTime":496.732,"body":"that was supporting them beautifully."},{"startTime":497.962,"endTime":501.262,"body":"That suddenly I was freed also as their"},{"startTime":501.262,"endTime":503.752,"body":"collaborative partner, I find that common."},{"startTime":504.77,"endTime":506.48,"body":"A hundred percent again, and"},{"startTime":506.51,"endTime":507.71,"body":"I've experienced it a lot."},{"startTime":507.79,"endTime":510.46,"body":"And there's something about and"},{"startTime":510.46,"endTime":511.42,"body":"this is so fascinating 'cause"},{"startTime":511.42,"endTime":513.49,"body":"we're talking about flow, that the"},{"startTime":513.49,"endTime":515.56,"body":"singer is in flow at that point."},{"startTime":515.65,"endTime":517.24,"body":"The piano player can pick that"},{"startTime":517.24,"endTime":518.98,"body":"flow up and go with it, create"},{"startTime":518.98,"endTime":521.02,"body":"it, mold it, interact with it."},{"startTime":521.47,"endTime":522.76,"body":"And I think what's so fascinating"},{"startTime":522.76,"endTime":525.25,"body":"is that flow is a very movable thing"},{"startTime":525.25,"endTime":527.53,"body":"because the flow, the same person"},{"startTime":527.53,"endTime":529.3,"body":"singing that song with someone else"},{"startTime":529.6,"endTime":531.4,"body":"playing piano will be a different flow."},{"startTime":531.78,"endTime":533.97,"body":"You as the piano player are."},{"startTime":534.3,"endTime":535.68,"body":"Or even as the singing teacher are"},{"startTime":535.68,"endTime":538.32,"body":"still part of that flow, so that it's"},{"startTime":538.32,"endTime":541.02,"body":"almost like flow is instantaneous."},{"startTime":541.02,"endTime":542.4,"body":"It's also absolutely"},{"startTime":542.4,"endTime":543.6,"body":"specific to the moment."},{"startTime":544.187,"endTime":544.607,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":545.825,"endTime":546.215,"body":"Agree more."},{"startTime":546.797,"endTime":550.487,"body":"and, I'm thinking on this that, 'cause"},{"startTime":550.487,"endTime":552.757,"body":"sometimes Jeremy will come back maybe from"},{"startTime":552.757,"endTime":554.967,"body":"a rehearsal or maybe having played for"},{"startTime":554.967,"endTime":557.247,"body":"several singers in one day and he'll say,"},{"startTime":558.147,"endTime":560.337,"body":"I couldn't find what they wanted to do."},{"startTime":561.237,"endTime":561.387,"body":"Nope."},{"startTime":562.227,"endTime":564.357,"body":"Because the singer wasn't in that"},{"startTime":564.357,"endTime":565.677,"body":"place where they had sufficient"},{"startTime":565.677,"endTime":567.027,"body":"mastery that they, they didn't"},{"startTime":567.027,"endTime":568.557,"body":"need to think about it anymore."},{"startTime":568.797,"endTime":570.417,"body":"Therefore they didn't really know"},{"startTime":570.417,"endTime":572.697,"body":"what they wanted to do, therefore he"},{"startTime":572.697,"endTime":574.737,"body":"couldn't go with it and connect with it."},{"startTime":575.337,"endTime":576.057,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":576.225,"endTime":576.765,"body":"of putting it."},{"startTime":576.765,"endTime":579.225,"body":"I think often if they do not have an"},{"startTime":579.225,"endTime":581.955,"body":"auditory target in mind, even just"},{"startTime":581.955,"endTime":583.245,"body":"from that starting point, if there's"},{"startTime":583.245,"endTime":585.465,"body":"not an auditory target of this is"},{"startTime":585.465,"endTime":587.785,"body":"the goal so often what jumps to mind?"},{"startTime":587.785,"endTime":589.82,"body":"I will have love to work with crossover"},{"startTime":589.82,"endTime":592.0,"body":"artists, have a, sadly a wealth of"},{"startTime":592.0,"endTime":593.58,"body":"opera singers coming in the last,"},{"startTime":594.36,"endTime":595.83,"body":"oh, I don't know, maybe five years"},{"startTime":595.83,"endTime":597.565,"body":"going, there's no work in opera to"},{"startTime":597.565,"endTime":599.725,"body":"be had, and I love storytelling."},{"startTime":599.755,"endTime":601.225,"body":"So I, I've got to get better"},{"startTime":601.225,"endTime":602.365,"body":"at this music theater thing."},{"startTime":602.845,"endTime":604.765,"body":"And what I find is that they go, so"},{"startTime":604.765,"endTime":605.935,"body":"you have to teach me how to belt."},{"startTime":605.935,"endTime":606.805,"body":"You have to teach me how to"},{"startTime":606.805,"endTime":607.975,"body":"make this sound or that sound."},{"startTime":608.395,"endTime":609.745,"body":"But when I ask them, who are you"},{"startTime":609.745,"endTime":611.545,"body":"listening to, who are your role models?"},{"startTime":611.545,"endTime":612.205,"body":"They have none."},{"startTime":613.405,"endTime":613.765,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":613.765,"endTime":615.355,"body":"And so that's the first problem, is"},{"startTime":615.355,"endTime":617.155,"body":"that we don't have an auditory target."},{"startTime":617.512,"endTime":618.532,"body":"Oh, I like that."},{"startTime":618.622,"endTime":618.952,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":618.957,"endTime":619.747,"body":"There's so many places"},{"startTime":619.807,"endTime":621.347,"body":"we could go immediately."},{"startTime":621.617,"endTime":622.547,"body":"Immediately we"},{"startTime":622.765,"endTime":623.695,"body":"we could branch off in a"},{"startTime":623.695,"endTime":624.655,"body":"million directions from"},{"startTime":624.657,"endTime":625.017,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":625.342,"endTime":625.762,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":625.762,"endTime":627.442,"body":"And this, and we ended up talking"},{"startTime":627.442,"endTime":628.822,"body":"about this with Claire, didn't we?"},{"startTime":628.822,"endTime":628.882,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":629.302,"endTime":630.802,"body":"About, it's not about"},{"startTime":630.802,"endTime":632.452,"body":"whether you can belt or not."},{"startTime":632.452,"endTime":632.602,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":632.602,"endTime":634.192,"body":"It's not about a number of sounds,"},{"startTime":634.327,"endTime":635.692,"body":"it's about the storytelling."},{"startTime":635.692,"endTime":637.282,"body":"But I think you've landed on something"},{"startTime":637.282,"endTime":638.992,"body":"that's quite acute, Mike, which"},{"startTime":638.992,"endTime":641.512,"body":"is what is your auditory target?"},{"startTime":641.512,"endTime":642.982,"body":"You don't really even have"},{"startTime":642.982,"endTime":644.902,"body":"that pathway in there yet."},{"startTime":645.262,"endTime":649.182,"body":"So no matter how, creative and skilled"},{"startTime":649.422,"endTime":652.542,"body":"you might be in putting across the"},{"startTime":652.542,"endTime":655.212,"body":"technical aspect, that auditory"},{"startTime":655.212,"endTime":657.582,"body":"pathway has got to be built in first"},{"startTime":657.582,"endTime":659.292,"body":"because we've got all of that is"},{"startTime":659.532,"endTime":661.302,"body":"looping through all the time, isn't it?"},{"startTime":661.362,"endTime":663.142,"body":"I'm gonna go a stage further because"},{"startTime":663.142,"endTime":664.492,"body":"I think it's a two stage process."},{"startTime":664.492,"endTime":666.412,"body":"I'm really fascinated that you've"},{"startTime":666.412,"endTime":669.352,"body":"brought this up specifically because"},{"startTime":669.712,"endTime":672.112,"body":"when you are wanting to change genres."},{"startTime":673.177,"endTime":675.967,"body":"You have to have a sound palette,"},{"startTime":675.997,"endTime":677.947,"body":"a whole range of sounds that are"},{"startTime":677.997,"endTime":680.577,"body":"appropriate, used in that genre."},{"startTime":680.577,"endTime":681.957,"body":"But it goes a stage further, which"},{"startTime":681.957,"endTime":683.277,"body":"is once you've found that sound"},{"startTime":683.277,"endTime":684.477,"body":"palette, you have to understand why"},{"startTime":684.477,"endTime":686.067,"body":"they're there in the first place."},{"startTime":686.547,"endTime":687.957,"body":"So you have to understand in musical"},{"startTime":687.957,"endTime":690.177,"body":"theater that it's all about story and"},{"startTime":690.177,"endTime":692.067,"body":"therefore any sound that you make has"},{"startTime":692.067,"endTime":694.977,"body":"to match what emotion that character"},{"startTime":694.977,"endTime":696.567,"body":"is going through, what the storyline"},{"startTime":696.567,"endTime":698.637,"body":"is at that point, what the character"},{"startTime":698.637,"endTime":700.437,"body":"is doing, thinking, feeling, being."},{"startTime":700.987,"endTime":703.867,"body":"Whereas, and I'm sure you'll be able"},{"startTime":703.867,"endTime":705.827,"body":"to talk about this when you are working"},{"startTime":705.827,"endTime":707.477,"body":"with your commercial contemporary"},{"startTime":707.477,"endTime":710.897,"body":"commercial people, it's not necessarily"},{"startTime":710.897,"endTime":712.937,"body":"about second by second storytelling."},{"startTime":712.937,"endTime":714.167,"body":"It's more of a vibe."},{"startTime":714.617,"endTime":717.377,"body":"There are still sound palettes that you"},{"startTime":717.377,"endTime":720.317,"body":"need and want and will use, but you'll"},{"startTime":720.317,"endTime":721.967,"body":"have different reasons for using them."},{"startTime":722.177,"endTime":723.287,"body":"Okay, talk."},{"startTime":723.775,"endTime":725.215,"body":"Quite agree with all of the above."},{"startTime":725.755,"endTime":727.825,"body":"Probably if there's an overarching"},{"startTime":727.825,"endTime":729.535,"body":"theme, if you were to be a fly on the"},{"startTime":729.535,"endTime":731.425,"body":"wall in my studio from day to day, the"},{"startTime":731.485,"endTime":733.645,"body":"overarching theme and I see this as a"},{"startTime":733.645,"endTime":737.455,"body":"major movement within the world of voice"},{"startTime":737.455,"endTime":740.265,"body":"instruction in general when I attend"},{"startTime":740.265,"endTime":742.575,"body":"workshops and conferences, is that"},{"startTime":742.635,"endTime":744.015,"body":"I'm very pleased to say that I think"},{"startTime":744.015,"endTime":747.015,"body":"we're moving away from a model of voice"},{"startTime":747.015,"endTime":749.835,"body":"training that is make the following"},{"startTime":750.217,"endTime":752.107,"body":"Can you head mix?"},{"startTime":752.677,"endTime":754.537,"body":"Can you chest dominant mix?"},{"startTime":754.567,"endTime":756.667,"body":"Can you belt?"},{"startTime":756.697,"endTime":757.927,"body":"What is your pure belt?"},{"startTime":757.927,"endTime":759.257,"body":"What is your can you do a"},{"startTime":759.257,"endTime":760.637,"body":"pure chest and a pure head?"},{"startTime":761.267,"endTime":762.857,"body":"None of which we know truly"},{"startTime":762.857,"endTime":764.477,"body":"exist but really we're moving"},{"startTime":764.477,"endTime":766.997,"body":"towards what is the verb."},{"startTime":767.4,"endTime":769.23,"body":"What is the character trying"},{"startTime":769.23,"endTime":770.43,"body":"to communicate in that moment?"},{"startTime":770.46,"endTime":771.78,"body":"Is the verb to speak,"},{"startTime":771.78,"endTime":772.8,"body":"is it as simple as that?"},{"startTime":772.8,"endTime":774.42,"body":"Is it to whine, to cry, to"},{"startTime":774.42,"endTime":777.06,"body":"whimper, to call to cheer?"},{"startTime":777.31,"endTime":779.11,"body":"What is that verb for that character"},{"startTime":779.38,"endTime":781.0,"body":"and how is that communicated"},{"startTime":781.21,"endTime":782.35,"body":"in the voice and how can it be"},{"startTime":782.35,"endTime":784.09,"body":"efficiently communicated on pitch?"},{"startTime":785.212,"endTime":785.812,"body":"Love that."},{"startTime":785.932,"endTime":788.152,"body":"And I'm gonna go stage further"},{"startTime":788.152,"endTime":790.232,"body":"again because there's a completely"},{"startTime":790.232,"endTime":791.732,"body":"relevant question in here."},{"startTime":791.762,"endTime":795.182,"body":"When somebody takes over a role in"},{"startTime":795.182,"endTime":796.592,"body":"a long running musical, do they have"},{"startTime":796.592,"endTime":798.902,"body":"to make exactly the same sounds?"},{"startTime":800.51,"endTime":802.58,"body":"I wish I could say never."},{"startTime":802.67,"endTime":803.15,"body":"No."},{"startTime":803.37,"endTime":805.65,"body":"The answer is that."},{"startTime":806.58,"endTime":808.68,"body":"The complicated answer is that it depends."},{"startTime":809.1,"endTime":810.15,"body":"It depends on the show"},{"startTime":810.15,"endTime":811.26,"body":"that they're going into."},{"startTime":811.53,"endTime":812.73,"body":"It depends on how much of a"},{"startTime":812.73,"endTime":815.76,"body":"behemoth it is, how much of a a"},{"startTime":815.76,"endTime":818.01,"body":"machinery they're entering into."},{"startTime":818.37,"endTime":819.66,"body":"But even then, when I"},{"startTime":819.66,"endTime":821.04,"body":"work with my Elphabas when I"},{"startTime":821.04,"endTime":825.97,"body":"work with folks in Hamilton, the"},{"startTime":825.97,"endTime":827.91,"body":"emphasis for me, there's so much, at"},{"startTime":827.91,"endTime":829.89,"body":"the Gershwin, there's and on tour,"},{"startTime":829.89,"endTime":832.71,"body":"there's so much discussion of we need"},{"startTime":832.71,"endTime":834.42,"body":"exactly the sound or we need it to"},{"startTime":834.42,"endTime":837.21,"body":"sound precisely like this, that I like"},{"startTime":837.21,"endTime":840.24,"body":"this space to be a place where we make"},{"startTime":840.24,"endTime":842.79,"body":"that space as expansive as possible."},{"startTime":843.75,"endTime":846.24,"body":"So obviously we need to make the MD happy."},{"startTime":846.24,"endTime":847.38,"body":"We need to make the"},{"startTime":847.38,"endTime":848.73,"body":"resident director happy."},{"startTime":848.91,"endTime":850.74,"body":"We have to tick those boxes."},{"startTime":850.98,"endTime":854.34,"body":"And yet within that realm, showing them"},{"startTime":854.55,"endTime":856.92,"body":"how much play is really possible, how"},{"startTime":856.92,"endTime":860.48,"body":"much personality and organicness we can"},{"startTime":860.48,"endTime":863.06,"body":"find for them, how much of their own."},{"startTime":863.435,"endTime":864.965,"body":"Interpretation, can we bring to"},{"startTime":864.965,"endTime":866.915,"body":"the page within those parameters?"},{"startTime":867.587,"endTime":869.147,"body":"and I talk about envelopes."},{"startTime":869.147,"endTime":873.447,"body":"So, a arou a roll or a piece or a, an aria"},{"startTime":873.447,"endTime":876.777,"body":"or a song has an envelope in which you"},{"startTime":876.777,"endTime":878.547,"body":"can do all sorts of things, and as long"},{"startTime":878.547,"endTime":880.197,"body":"as it stays within that envelope, there"},{"startTime":880.197,"endTime":881.907,"body":"are lots of corners that you can add."},{"startTime":881.937,"endTime":882.987,"body":"There's lots of you that"},{"startTime":882.987,"endTime":884.337,"body":"you can bring to that."},{"startTime":885.177,"endTime":885.717,"body":"And then of course,"},{"startTime":886.545,"endTime":887.625,"body":"Oh my, my apologies."},{"startTime":887.625,"endTime":889.215,"body":"I'd loved your discussion with Claire"},{"startTime":889.317,"endTime":892.887,"body":"Because she is in that enviable position"},{"startTime":892.887,"endTime":895.227,"body":"with cabaret, where the sky's the limit."},{"startTime":895.387,"endTime":898.147,"body":"It's every new artist who comes in is"},{"startTime":898.147,"endTime":900.817,"body":"embraced to bring themselves entirely"},{"startTime":901.027,"endTime":902.737,"body":"within the constructs of the piece."},{"startTime":902.767,"endTime":903.967,"body":"And that's the dream."},{"startTime":904.417,"endTime":904.987,"body":"That's the dream."},{"startTime":904.987,"endTime":907.447,"body":"And that is often the case, fortunately."},{"startTime":907.907,"endTime":909.527,"body":"And sometimes there are far more"},{"startTime":909.527,"endTime":911.147,"body":"constraints on what we are being"},{"startTime":911.147,"endTime":912.527,"body":"asked to do with that singer"},{"startTime":912.527,"endTime":914.417,"body":"and what sounds are required."},{"startTime":914.847,"endTime":916.257,"body":"But I quite agree an envelope"},{"startTime":916.257,"endTime":917.307,"body":"is a perfect way to put it."},{"startTime":918.3,"endTime":919.41,"body":"Very interesting."},{"startTime":919.485,"endTime":921.2,"body":"I think, it's a, it's a challenging"},{"startTime":921.2,"endTime":923.69,"body":"topic because I don't know if you find"},{"startTime":924.17,"endTime":926.21,"body":"the same sort of discussions happening"},{"startTime":926.21,"endTime":929.28,"body":"your side of the pond within the training"},{"startTime":929.37,"endTime":931.38,"body":"industry, musical theater education"},{"startTime":931.41,"endTime":934.5,"body":"about industry sounds, and we must get"},{"startTime":934.5,"endTime":937.21,"body":"people industry ready and that has to"},{"startTime":937.21,"endTime":939.25,"body":"be done to get bums on seats for the"},{"startTime":939.25,"endTime":942.33,"body":"next, next year intake of students."},{"startTime":942.57,"endTime":944.25,"body":"And then the students become obsessed"},{"startTime":944.25,"endTime":946.2,"body":"with making these kinds of sounds."},{"startTime":946.2,"endTime":947.37,"body":"And sometimes when you work"},{"startTime":947.37,"endTime":948.42,"body":"with them, you're thinking."},{"startTime":949.44,"endTime":950.79,"body":"Well, I actually want to"},{"startTime":950.79,"endTime":952.11,"body":"hear your version of this."},{"startTime":952.11,"endTime":955.08,"body":"I want to hear your story about this"},{"startTime":955.63,"endTime":958.12,"body":"because they are producing these sounds"},{"startTime":958.12,"endTime":960.46,"body":"and somehow they then don't ring true,"},{"startTime":960.49,"endTime":962.71,"body":"and I think it's tough on them actually"},{"startTime":965.122,"endTime":966.172,"body":"And you bring up another"},{"startTime":966.172,"endTime":967.822,"body":"interesting topic, which is I"},{"startTime":967.827,"endTime":969.107,"body":"could not agree more with that."},{"startTime":969.107,"endTime":972.673,"body":"And it led me to this idea that when Vocal"},{"startTime":972.673,"endTime":976.873,"body":"training becomes fully about a collection"},{"startTime":976.873,"endTime":980.143,"body":"of sounds, when it becomes what are all of"},{"startTime":980.143,"endTime":982.063,"body":"the different sounds on your palette that"},{"startTime":982.123,"endTime":984.283,"body":"aren't connected to the actor's need, they"},{"startTime":984.283,"endTime":987.613,"body":"are simply a collection of coordinations"},{"startTime":987.613,"endTime":989.353,"body":"that you have trained your voice to make."},{"startTime":989.653,"endTime":992.473,"body":"Not only do we lack authenticity, but I"},{"startTime":992.473,"endTime":995.063,"body":"find as a singing voice specialist who"},{"startTime":995.063,"endTime":997.223,"body":"works with rehabilitation, that's also"},{"startTime":997.223,"endTime":999.023,"body":"when we start to open the door for injury"},{"startTime":1000.403,"endTime":1003.313,"body":"because our body, our neurologists, are"},{"startTime":1003.313,"endTime":1007.723,"body":"not built for sound production right now."},{"startTime":1007.723,"endTime":1008.863,"body":"I'm speaking to you and no"},{"startTime":1008.863,"endTime":1010.603,"body":"part of my brain is going."},{"startTime":1011.188,"endTime":1012.448,"body":"Do I like the sound I'm making?"},{"startTime":1012.448,"endTime":1013.918,"body":"Is it the right marketable"},{"startTime":1013.918,"endTime":1015.508,"body":"sound for Gillyanne and Jeremy?"},{"startTime":1015.508,"endTime":1016.738,"body":"Is it going to be appropriate?"},{"startTime":1017.008,"endTime":1018.598,"body":"No part of my brain is engaged in"},{"startTime":1018.598,"endTime":1020.468,"body":"that, that is putting a middleman"},{"startTime":1020.468,"endTime":1023.358,"body":"into the complexity of the process"},{"startTime":1023.358,"endTime":1025.398,"body":"of communication that we really don't"},{"startTime":1025.398,"endTime":1026.538,"body":"want to have in there or we want to"},{"startTime":1026.538,"endTime":1028.428,"body":"have in there as little as possible."},{"startTime":1028.968,"endTime":1031.278,"body":"And so I do find that when I work with"},{"startTime":1031.278,"endTime":1033.738,"body":"people who are coming back from injury,"},{"startTime":1034.038,"endTime":1035.958,"body":"often there is a common theme where,"},{"startTime":1036.168,"endTime":1038.628,"body":"well, I was told this was the sound that"},{"startTime":1038.628,"endTime":1041.568,"body":"had to happen, or I told myself I have"},{"startTime":1041.568,"endTime":1043.953,"body":"to be if I'm doing this correctly, I"},{"startTime":1043.953,"endTime":1047.133,"body":"sound like Jeremy Jordan or I sound like"},{"startTime":1047.413,"endTime":1048.643,"body":"Jessica Vosk or whoever"},{"startTime":1048.643,"endTime":1049.243,"body":"it may be."},{"startTime":1049.513,"endTime":1051.253,"body":"And that's where the real"},{"startTime":1051.253,"endTime":1052.663,"body":"imbalance began for them."},{"startTime":1053.756,"endTime":1055.226,"body":"I'm gonna say one more thing, and again,"},{"startTime":1055.226,"endTime":1056.696,"body":"I'm going to split this up because I"},{"startTime":1056.696,"endTime":1058.436,"body":"think it's such an interesting topic."},{"startTime":1058.856,"endTime":1062.126,"body":"You have people who are making, who"},{"startTime":1062.126,"endTime":1064.826,"body":"are led even to make specific sounds."},{"startTime":1065.156,"endTime":1066.836,"body":"And they make them extremely well,"},{"startTime":1067.016,"endTime":1069.806,"body":"but it's not necessarily their version"},{"startTime":1069.806,"endTime":1072.356,"body":"of that sound on their own voice."},{"startTime":1072.626,"endTime":1073.736,"body":"It's their version of that"},{"startTime":1073.736,"endTime":1075.026,"body":"sound on someone else's voice."},{"startTime":1075.026,"endTime":1076.706,"body":"And so they're copying something that"},{"startTime":1076.706,"endTime":1079.046,"body":"isn't, I'm not gonna say innate, because"},{"startTime":1079.046,"endTime":1081.446,"body":"a lot of it is trained, but they're not"},{"startTime":1081.446,"endTime":1083.236,"body":"making the sound that is their version."},{"startTime":1083.236,"endTime":1084.916,"body":"And this is another envelope thing"},{"startTime":1084.916,"endTime":1086.816,"body":"where, we talk about belt, but belt"},{"startTime":1086.816,"endTime":1090.506,"body":"has a massive range of potential within"},{"startTime":1090.506,"endTime":1092.426,"body":"it that, lots of things fit in there."},{"startTime":1092.711,"endTime":1094.241,"body":"So for me it's about."},{"startTime":1094.586,"endTime":1096.296,"body":"I'm fine with you making all the noises,"},{"startTime":1096.296,"endTime":1097.736,"body":"but can we make your version please?"},{"startTime":1097.741,"endTime":1099.061,"body":"We have this saying"},{"startTime":1099.061,"endTime":1100.861,"body":"that belt is contextual."},{"startTime":1101.161,"endTime":1101.281,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1101.311,"endTime":1103.291,"body":"It's contextual to the singer."},{"startTime":1103.501,"endTime":1105.511,"body":"It's contextual to the song."},{"startTime":1105.981,"endTime":1108.201,"body":"And it's also contextual to the genre."},{"startTime":1108.201,"endTime":1110.241,"body":"So, my belt isn't necessarily the"},{"startTime":1110.241,"endTime":1112.911,"body":"same as your belt, and to be honest,"},{"startTime":1112.911,"endTime":1114.801,"body":"if the audience perceives it as"},{"startTime":1114.801,"endTime":1117.741,"body":"a belted note, the job is done."},{"startTime":1118.468,"endTime":1118.688,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1119.493,"endTime":1122.403,"body":"Oh, I am enjoying this incredibly,"},{"startTime":1122.613,"endTime":1124.653,"body":"it's like I have found my kindred"},{"startTime":1124.653,"endTime":1126.273,"body":"spirits from across the pond."},{"startTime":1126.273,"endTime":1127.773,"body":"I'm just in heaven right now."},{"startTime":1128.113,"endTime":1128.923,"body":"This is wonderful."},{"startTime":1128.923,"endTime":1130.033,"body":"I couldn't agree more."},{"startTime":1130.033,"endTime":1132.043,"body":"And I think, again, to go that step"},{"startTime":1132.043,"endTime":1134.773,"body":"further, you can step onto TikTok."},{"startTime":1134.773,"endTime":1136.513,"body":"You can step onto Instagram, and"},{"startTime":1136.513,"endTime":1139.153,"body":"you will find many examples of"},{"startTime":1139.153,"endTime":1141.973,"body":"people making sounds that I think"},{"startTime":1141.973,"endTime":1144.463,"body":"would thrill casting directors would"},{"startTime":1144.583,"endTime":1147.553,"body":"thrill a number of audience members."},{"startTime":1148.363,"endTime":1149.953,"body":"But there's something that"},{"startTime":1149.953,"endTime":1151.603,"body":"leaves you a bit hollow."},{"startTime":1151.603,"endTime":1153.673,"body":"And as a Vocal trainer, there's"},{"startTime":1153.673,"endTime":1155.353,"body":"something that concerns you because"},{"startTime":1155.353,"endTime":1157.693,"body":"it is possible to make a marketable"},{"startTime":1157.813,"endTime":1159.493,"body":"and a quote unquote good sound"},{"startTime":1159.943,"endTime":1163.603,"body":"that is actually quite unstable."},{"startTime":1163.663,"endTime":1165.583,"body":"And I don't wanna go so far as say"},{"startTime":1165.583,"endTime":1168.103,"body":"unhealthy, but it can go down that road."},{"startTime":1168.763,"endTime":1171.313,"body":"When we are not connected to a need, when"},{"startTime":1171.313,"endTime":1174.083,"body":"we're not connected to when it's simply my"},{"startTime":1174.083,"endTime":1176.123,"body":"voice is making a sound and I've learned"},{"startTime":1176.123,"endTime":1179.093,"body":"to make this sound over time, I find that"},{"startTime":1179.093,"endTime":1181.043,"body":"the effort starts to creep up on that"},{"startTime":1181.131,"endTime":1181.371,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1181.426,"endTime":1181.606,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1181.936,"endTime":1184.756,"body":"And so then it becomes unsustainable Yes."},{"startTime":1184.756,"endTime":1186.406,"body":"For that particular vocalist?"},{"startTime":1186.406,"endTime":1188.471,"body":"Well, not only that and there are people"},{"startTime":1188.471,"endTime":1190.961,"body":"who have varying abilities with this."},{"startTime":1190.991,"endTime":1192.911,"body":"It is if you are in a long running"},{"startTime":1193.001,"endTime":1195.731,"body":"musical, if you are doing a gig tour,"},{"startTime":1196.011,"endTime":1198.621,"body":"you have 40 dates and you are producing"},{"startTime":1198.621,"endTime":1201.891,"body":"a sound that is commercially marketable"},{"startTime":1202.161,"endTime":1205.101,"body":"or castable, but it isn't really you."},{"startTime":1205.101,"endTime":1206.991,"body":"The more you do it, the more you"},{"startTime":1206.991,"endTime":1208.971,"body":"get divorced from your own voice."},{"startTime":1209.021,"endTime":1211.601,"body":"And actually, the more likely I think"},{"startTime":1211.931,"endTime":1213.881,"body":"that mental health is going to suffer."},{"startTime":1214.061,"endTime":1214.241,"body":"Yep."},{"startTime":1214.571,"endTime":1216.781,"body":"Because you are not actually, you are"},{"startTime":1216.781,"endTime":1219.616,"body":"not displaying, it's not who you are,"},{"startTime":1219.616,"endTime":1220.906,"body":"but you're not displaying something"},{"startTime":1220.906,"endTime":1222.796,"body":"that is, is actually truthful to you."},{"startTime":1223.006,"endTime":1224.026,"body":"And we could talk about"},{"startTime":1224.026,"endTime":1225.676,"body":"authenticity for a long time."},{"startTime":1225.918,"endTime":1227.028,"body":"Oh my goodness."},{"startTime":1227.068,"endTime":1228.688,"body":"The thing that has been on my, and this"},{"startTime":1228.688,"endTime":1231.388,"body":"may be slightly tangential, but the thing"},{"startTime":1231.388,"endTime":1234.958,"body":"that has been on my radar lately with the"},{"startTime":1234.958,"endTime":1240.148,"body":"advent of social media and performing,"},{"startTime":1240.208,"endTime":1242.488,"body":"I think particularly high level roles"},{"startTime":1242.488,"endTime":1245.788,"body":"we can find ourselves, hopefully not,"},{"startTime":1245.788,"endTime":1247.313,"body":"but I think often many performers"},{"startTime":1247.428,"endTime":1248.898,"body":"are quite isolated during the day."},{"startTime":1248.898,"endTime":1250.068,"body":"They're trying to speak less,"},{"startTime":1250.068,"endTime":1251.118,"body":"they're trying to use their voice"},{"startTime":1251.118,"endTime":1252.888,"body":"less, even if they have families,"},{"startTime":1252.888,"endTime":1254.058,"body":"they're trying to do less."},{"startTime":1254.208,"endTime":1255.378,"body":"They're going out for drinks with"},{"startTime":1255.378,"endTime":1256.878,"body":"their friends less and all of this."},{"startTime":1256.938,"endTime":1260.658,"body":"And so a lot of them have taken to social"},{"startTime":1260.658,"endTime":1263.298,"body":"media and are almost vlogging their days"},{"startTime":1263.608,"endTime":1265.558,"body":"sharing a lot of, which is wonderful."},{"startTime":1265.558,"endTime":1267.148,"body":"They're sharing so much insight into"},{"startTime":1267.148,"endTime":1268.828,"body":"what the life of a performer looks like."},{"startTime":1269.098,"endTime":1270.538,"body":"One of the things, the downsides"},{"startTime":1270.538,"endTime":1271.828,"body":"that, that I've begun to see"},{"startTime":1271.828,"endTime":1273.988,"body":"however, is, and I'm curious to know"},{"startTime":1273.988,"endTime":1274.948,"body":"if this is something that that's."},{"startTime":1275.308,"endTime":1277.168,"body":"You've begun to see on your side the"},{"startTime":1277.168,"endTime":1279.388,"body":"Atlantic, but we've begun to see a bit"},{"startTime":1279.388,"endTime":1282.478,"body":"of the fetishization of Vocal hygiene."},{"startTime":1282.596,"endTime":1285.806,"body":"And what I mean by that is you're not"},{"startTime":1285.806,"endTime":1288.386,"body":"gonna believe the lengths to which I go to"},{"startTime":1288.386,"endTime":1290.096,"body":"be ready for my Broadway show every night."},{"startTime":1290.276,"endTime":1290.336,"body":"Eight."},{"startTime":1291.416,"endTime":1293.246,"body":"I get up at eight, I steam for"},{"startTime":1293.246,"endTime":1295.656,"body":"two hours, then I, I'm sipping"},{"startTime":1295.656,"endTime":1296.766,"body":"water throughout the day."},{"startTime":1296.766,"endTime":1298.986,"body":"I am, do I have to do my yoga?"},{"startTime":1298.986,"endTime":1299.436,"body":"I have to."},{"startTime":1299.436,"endTime":1301.596,"body":"They create a ritual and it all"},{"startTime":1301.596,"endTime":1303.516,"body":"has to be done every single day."},{"startTime":1303.846,"endTime":1305.736,"body":"And on the face of it, no one"},{"startTime":1305.736,"endTime":1307.386,"body":"loves Vocal hygiene more than me."},{"startTime":1307.436,"endTime":1309.326,"body":"I am thrilled that we're getting the"},{"startTime":1309.326,"endTime":1311.936,"body":"message out there about cool cooling"},{"startTime":1311.936,"endTime":1314.526,"body":"down, warming up steaming nebulizing."},{"startTime":1314.526,"endTime":1317.346,"body":"These are all wonderful tools, but I've"},{"startTime":1317.346,"endTime":1320.017,"body":"begun to see a one upsmanship of no."},{"startTime":1320.022,"endTime":1322.556,"body":"If you think your regime regimen is crazy."},{"startTime":1322.556,"endTime":1324.476,"body":"Look at how elongated"},{"startTime":1324.776,"endTime":1326.396,"body":"and extreme minus is."},{"startTime":1326.846,"endTime":1329.876,"body":"And so, and the, you made me think"},{"startTime":1329.876,"endTime":1331.436,"body":"of it in terms of mental health."},{"startTime":1331.436,"endTime":1335.096,"body":"I think this is really a problem because"},{"startTime":1335.336,"endTime":1337.376,"body":"the more I'm sure you guys find this,"},{"startTime":1337.376,"endTime":1339.116,"body":"I'm curious to hear if you find this,"},{"startTime":1339.566,"endTime":1341.546,"body":"the more I see a performer fixating"},{"startTime":1341.876,"endTime":1344.756,"body":"single-mindedly on their Vocal health."},{"startTime":1345.251,"endTime":1347.141,"body":"The more their Vocal and mental"},{"startTime":1347.141,"endTime":1348.701,"body":"health begins to deteriorate."},{"startTime":1350.378,"endTime":1351.458,"body":"And it's really interesting."},{"startTime":1351.458,"endTime":1352.568,"body":"This is performative."},{"startTime":1352.998,"endTime":1353.808,"body":"When you are dealing with"},{"startTime":1353.808,"endTime":1355.038,"body":"social media, there's an element"},{"startTime":1355.038,"endTime":1356.748,"body":"of performative about it."},{"startTime":1356.978,"endTime":1359.138,"body":"And if you ramp up the performative"},{"startTime":1359.138,"endTime":1361.418,"body":"because you get more views, again, we're"},{"startTime":1361.418,"endTime":1363.998,"body":"coming away from a level of authenticity."},{"startTime":1363.998,"endTime":1365.648,"body":"That means you are stretching."},{"startTime":1366.188,"endTime":1367.868,"body":"And unfortunately with social media,"},{"startTime":1367.868,"endTime":1369.818,"body":"because it's there forever, unless"},{"startTime":1369.818,"endTime":1371.318,"body":"you take it down and even then"},{"startTime":1371.558,"endTime":1374.818,"body":"sometimes not you, you are then"},{"startTime":1374.818,"endTime":1377.428,"body":"stuck in that this is the way I live."},{"startTime":1377.428,"endTime":1378.808,"body":"This is the way I do everything,"},{"startTime":1378.808,"endTime":1380.188,"body":"and I must live up to that."},{"startTime":1380.488,"endTime":1382.168,"body":"And you end up not living a truthful"},{"startTime":1382.168,"endTime":1384.268,"body":"life at all because you're trying to"},{"startTime":1384.268,"endTime":1386.218,"body":"live up to something that you built."},{"startTime":1386.761,"endTime":1387.241,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1387.328,"endTime":1389.848,"body":"I'm just wondering how much it is."},{"startTime":1390.628,"endTime":1394.888,"body":"Based on a fear of what if something"},{"startTime":1394.888,"endTime":1398.068,"body":"happens to my voice in the show tonight."},{"startTime":1398.818,"endTime":1401.698,"body":"Not only are you gonna be disappointed"},{"startTime":1401.698,"endTime":1403.408,"body":"with that particular show because"},{"startTime":1403.408,"endTime":1406.648,"body":"something went wrong, but it's gonna"},{"startTime":1406.648,"endTime":1410.068,"body":"be all over everywhere because somebody"},{"startTime":1410.068,"endTime":1411.958,"body":"is gonna be in there filming it,"},{"startTime":1412.666,"endTime":1413.026,"body":"Yes,"},{"startTime":1413.218,"endTime":1417.268,"body":"and that puts an enormous pressure"},{"startTime":1417.418,"endTime":1419.278,"body":"on an artist, I think a pressure"},{"startTime":1419.278,"endTime":1421.078,"body":"that we didn't used to have."},{"startTime":1422.608,"endTime":1423.778,"body":"Do you think that's part of it?"},{"startTime":1424.546,"endTime":1426.676,"body":"I absolutely, I think that is a very"},{"startTime":1427.216,"endTime":1429.196,"body":"valid take on the situation because I"},{"startTime":1429.196,"endTime":1431.836,"body":"think it, it's also perhaps what we're"},{"startTime":1431.836,"endTime":1434.656,"body":"seeing is an artist's desire to go, if"},{"startTime":1434.656,"endTime":1437.176,"body":"you saw me on a bad night, just know that"},{"startTime":1437.176,"endTime":1441.076,"body":"I'm doing A through Z to be in the very"},{"startTime":1441.076,"endTime":1442.756,"body":"best peak condition that I can be in."},{"startTime":1443.216,"endTime":1445.628,"body":"Which is not necessarily, certainly being"},{"startTime":1445.628,"endTime":1447.708,"body":"best condition, can something"},{"startTime":1447.746,"endTime":1449.096,"body":"something we owe our audiences,"},{"startTime":1449.306,"endTime":1450.776,"body":"but the knowledge of what"},{"startTime":1450.776,"endTime":1452.126,"body":"we're doing is not necessarily"},{"startTime":1452.126,"endTime":1453.326,"body":"something we owe our audiences."},{"startTime":1453.626,"endTime":1455.096,"body":"But yeah, I do think that is very"},{"startTime":1455.096,"endTime":1456.986,"body":"much part of the, part of what we're"},{"startTime":1456.986,"endTime":1458.426,"body":"seeing, and I think it does tend to"},{"startTime":1458.426,"endTime":1460.526,"body":"be fear-based for both the performer"},{"startTime":1460.873,"endTime":1462.083,"body":"It's a tricky one, isn't it?"},{"startTime":1462.083,"endTime":1465.433,"body":"Because you've got, the people who are"},{"startTime":1465.433,"endTime":1467.413,"body":"really grounded the artists that I've"},{"startTime":1467.413,"endTime":1469.363,"body":"worked with who are really grounded,"},{"startTime":1469.903,"endTime":1471.553,"body":"are going, yeah, it was a bad day."},{"startTime":1472.076,"endTime":1474.146,"body":"Complete acceptance that it was a bad day."},{"startTime":1474.146,"endTime":1475.406,"body":"And also complete acceptance."},{"startTime":1475.406,"endTime":1475.901,"body":"That is not the norm."},{"startTime":1476.938,"endTime":1477.158,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1477.276,"endTime":1479.916,"body":"So if somebody on online wants to pick"},{"startTime":1479.916,"endTime":1482.016,"body":"up the, you cracked that note or that"},{"startTime":1482.016,"endTime":1483.576,"body":"phrase didn't work, or you breathed"},{"startTime":1483.576,"endTime":1485.286,"body":"in the wrong place, or whatever it"},{"startTime":1485.286,"endTime":1487.576,"body":"is then the artist goes, yeah, I did."},{"startTime":1488.476,"endTime":1491.146,"body":"And it's like, and come back and see"},{"startTime":1491.146,"endTime":1492.616,"body":"the show when I'm on a better day."},{"startTime":1492.666,"endTime":1493.326,"body":"It's like."},{"startTime":1494.453,"endTime":1496.253,"body":"This is the temporal nature of ours,"},{"startTime":1496.386,"endTime":1496.986,"body":"Yeah, there is"},{"startTime":1497.093,"endTime":1498.143,"body":"the art that we do."},{"startTime":1498.196,"endTime":1499.606,"body":"This is the thing, is that because"},{"startTime":1499.606,"endTime":1500.976,"body":"everything is being recorded."},{"startTime":1500.976,"endTime":1502.146,"body":"When the recording industry even"},{"startTime":1502.146,"endTime":1503.966,"body":"started, it was like this is a"},{"startTime":1503.966,"endTime":1506.246,"body":"snapshot of any recording, any"},{"startTime":1506.246,"endTime":1509.156,"body":"book, any movie, any, anything is a"},{"startTime":1509.156,"endTime":1510.596,"body":"snapshot of where you are right then."},{"startTime":1511.123,"endTime":1511.423,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1511.566,"endTime":1513.006,"body":"Actually, if you're in a show, it's a"},{"startTime":1513.006,"endTime":1514.836,"body":"snapshot of you live, if you're in a"},{"startTime":1514.836,"endTime":1516.666,"body":"film, it's a snapshot of you a year ago"},{"startTime":1516.666,"endTime":1518.076,"body":"because they spent a year editing it."},{"startTime":1518.526,"endTime":1519.606,"body":"But it's really interesting"},{"startTime":1519.606,"endTime":1520.776,"body":"that it's a snapshot of where"},{"startTime":1520.776,"endTime":1522.306,"body":"you are doing what you do."},{"startTime":1522.696,"endTime":1524.646,"body":"And I don't know anyone who looks"},{"startTime":1524.646,"endTime":1526.356,"body":"back on their work 10 years ago and"},{"startTime":1526.356,"endTime":1528.456,"body":"goes, oh, I was so much better then."},{"startTime":1528.786,"endTime":1530.586,"body":"No, you develop as an artist."},{"startTime":1530.861,"endTime":1533.286,"body":"And I think there's a mentality and"},{"startTime":1533.286,"endTime":1534.456,"body":"I think it's a mentality that can be"},{"startTime":1534.456,"endTime":1538.356,"body":"trained that says, yeah, I fucked up."},{"startTime":1539.166,"endTime":1540.126,"body":"It's fine."},{"startTime":1540.231,"endTime":1542.841,"body":"So in, because I think particularly in"},{"startTime":1542.841,"endTime":1545.391,"body":"the musical theater industry, the way"},{"startTime":1545.391,"endTime":1547.521,"body":"that we train people or certainly have"},{"startTime":1547.521,"endTime":1549.921,"body":"trained them in the past, you must be"},{"startTime":1549.921,"endTime":1553.041,"body":"giving a hundred percent every night."},{"startTime":1553.491,"endTime":1555.591,"body":"And I'm having to say, please don't,"},{"startTime":1555.591,"endTime":1558.171,"body":"to my performers, so long as you are"},{"startTime":1558.171,"endTime":1561.081,"body":"lowest common denominator is good enough."},{"startTime":1561.561,"endTime":1563.751,"body":"That's got to be your benchmark."},{"startTime":1563.811,"endTime":1565.371,"body":"Let's get your lowest common."},{"startTime":1565.431,"endTime":1566.181,"body":"Oh, lowest."},{"startTime":1566.181,"endTime":1568.131,"body":"Dare I say, use the word lowest."},{"startTime":1568.731,"endTime":1570.351,"body":"And yes, some days you will"},{"startTime":1570.351,"endTime":1572.811,"body":"absolutely fly, and other days you"},{"startTime":1572.811,"endTime":1574.941,"body":"will be doing a good enough job."},{"startTime":1575.511,"endTime":1576.561,"body":"And I know Claire Underwood"},{"startTime":1576.561,"endTime":1577.851,"body":"talked about this, didn't she?"},{"startTime":1577.901,"endTime":1579.251,"body":"We have to allow ourselves"},{"startTime":1579.251,"endTime":1580.721,"body":"to be good enough."},{"startTime":1580.948,"endTime":1581.458,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1582.208,"endTime":1583.528,"body":"I'm always greatly concerned for"},{"startTime":1583.528,"endTime":1585.028,"body":"my performers who do not seem"},{"startTime":1585.028,"endTime":1586.378,"body":"to have grace for themselves."},{"startTime":1586.378,"endTime":1588.358,"body":"That is deeply concerning."},{"startTime":1588.718,"endTime":1591.148,"body":"Because what we do, I think there has"},{"startTime":1591.148,"endTime":1593.158,"body":"to be an inherent level of grace there."},{"startTime":1593.158,"endTime":1595.018,"body":"And I'm trying to remember, maybe"},{"startTime":1595.018,"endTime":1596.803,"body":"you can tell me if it was Marilyn"},{"startTime":1596.803,"endTime":1599.338,"body":"Horne or Beverly Sills who said, in"},{"startTime":1599.338,"endTime":1601.348,"body":"my entire career, I only performed"},{"startTime":1601.348,"endTime":1603.958,"body":"three times exactly as I intended to."},{"startTime":1604.706,"endTime":1605.831,"body":"I can't remember who it was."},{"startTime":1605.981,"endTime":1606.351,"body":"Love it."},{"startTime":1606.433,"endTime":1607.933,"body":"was one of those two ladies."},{"startTime":1608.383,"endTime":1608.983,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1609.203,"endTime":1610.883,"body":"And the great news is, I was saying"},{"startTime":1610.883,"endTime":1612.183,"body":"this to an artist yesterday, I was"},{"startTime":1612.183,"endTime":1615.363,"body":"saying you had a, what you considered"},{"startTime":1615.363,"endTime":1617.673,"body":"to be a not great show yesterday."},{"startTime":1617.673,"endTime":1619.623,"body":"I think they, they labeled it a c plus"},{"startTime":1619.623,"endTime":1622.353,"body":"show, which for them felt deeply shameful."},{"startTime":1622.503,"endTime":1622.863,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1623.283,"endTime":1625.353,"body":"For an audience, when we get"},{"startTime":1625.353,"endTime":1626.733,"body":"to this level, this tier of"},{"startTime":1626.733,"endTime":1631.503,"body":"performing when you are at 70%, it"},{"startTime":1631.503,"endTime":1633.893,"body":"is still far above expectations."},{"startTime":1633.943,"endTime":1635.933,"body":"When we're dealing at this level you are"},{"startTime":1635.933,"endTime":1637.643,"body":"still very capable of telling the story."},{"startTime":1637.643,"endTime":1639.233,"body":"You are still very capable of"},{"startTime":1639.233,"endTime":1640.673,"body":"delivering to the audience something"},{"startTime":1640.673,"endTime":1642.473,"body":"that makes them extremely happy."},{"startTime":1642.803,"endTime":1645.203,"body":"And so it's understanding that every"},{"startTime":1645.203,"endTime":1647.303,"body":"day is not going to be in that upper"},{"startTime":1647.513,"endTime":1650.153,"body":"10 percentile or even the upper five."},{"startTime":1650.496,"endTime":1650.766,"body":"Yep."},{"startTime":1650.981,"endTime":1651.311,"body":"Yep."},{"startTime":1652.601,"endTime":1653.681,"body":"I'm just wondering, because"},{"startTime":1653.681,"endTime":1655.811,"body":"we've been talking about Vocal"},{"startTime":1655.811,"endTime":1658.031,"body":"and psychological health,"},{"startTime":1658.308,"endTime":1660.108,"body":"How often, without putting you in a"},{"startTime":1660.108,"endTime":1661.728,"body":"difficult position, how often have"},{"startTime":1661.728,"endTime":1664.788,"body":"you been in a situation where you"},{"startTime":1664.788,"endTime":1667.618,"body":"are working with a singer an artist"},{"startTime":1667.618,"endTime":1670.318,"body":"who has been vocally miscast, cast?"},{"startTime":1670.398,"endTime":1672.783,"body":"It, how do you handle that?"},{"startTime":1674.586,"endTime":1675.876,"body":"That is a great question."},{"startTime":1675.926,"endTime":1677.936,"body":"Fortunately,"},{"startTime":1680.606,"endTime":1683.546,"body":"trying to think of examples, fortunately,"},{"startTime":1683.546,"endTime":1686.576,"body":"very infrequently, but it does happen."},{"startTime":1686.606,"endTime":1691.076,"body":"And the way forward for me is"},{"startTime":1691.076,"endTime":1693.176,"body":"that if I feel that, in, in"},{"startTime":1693.176,"endTime":1695.246,"body":"opera we have the fach system."},{"startTime":1695.246,"endTime":1695.666,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1695.846,"endTime":1698.016,"body":"So, you're not going to be singing"},{"startTime":1698.166,"endTime":1701.246,"body":"Lady Macbeth if you are a coloratura."},{"startTime":1701.573,"endTime":1701.813,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":1702.296,"endTime":1704.066,"body":"You might later in life but you're not"},{"startTime":1704.066,"endTime":1706.406,"body":"going to as your core repertoire, right."},{"startTime":1706.856,"endTime":1710.306,"body":"And so we don't have that fach system"},{"startTime":1710.306,"endTime":1711.656,"body":"and I know a lot of voice teachers"},{"startTime":1711.656,"endTime":1715.046,"body":"have begun to argue for something like"},{"startTime":1715.046,"endTime":1716.396,"body":"that in the world of music theater"},{"startTime":1716.396,"endTime":1718.736,"body":"because I could certainly point to"},{"startTime":1718.796,"endTime":1721.676,"body":"a certain kind of voice that fares"},{"startTime":1721.676,"endTime":1723.266,"body":"better with Elphaba than another."},{"startTime":1723.866,"endTime":1725.036,"body":"I could certainly point to that."},{"startTime":1725.133,"endTime":1726.983,"body":"it's part of my PhD. Yeah."},{"startTime":1727.226,"endTime":1727.856,"body":"There we go."},{"startTime":1728.366,"endTime":1729.146,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":1729.366,"endTime":1731.226,"body":"And I have worked with those women who"},{"startTime":1731.286,"endTime":1736.341,"body":"had quite a. Thick fold, heavy, thrilling"},{"startTime":1736.401,"endTime":1739.971,"body":"belt coordination, but Elphaba was on the"},{"startTime":1739.971,"endTime":1742.611,"body":"higher side of that for them and forced"},{"startTime":1742.611,"endTime":1745.221,"body":"them to live in a tessitura that is, would"},{"startTime":1745.221,"endTime":1747.741,"body":"not be my choice for their voice, right?"},{"startTime":1747.741,"endTime":1748.761,"body":"Would not be my first"},{"startTime":1748.761,"endTime":1749.871,"body":"choice for their voice."},{"startTime":1750.351,"endTime":1751.581,"body":"So what do we do then?"},{"startTime":1751.631,"endTime":1752.981,"body":"The answer to really get to your"},{"startTime":1752.981,"endTime":1754.931,"body":"question would be that we really,"},{"startTime":1754.931,"endTime":1758.141,"body":"that's when we have to embrace a"},{"startTime":1758.141,"endTime":1760.931,"body":"different model for that character and"},{"startTime":1760.931,"endTime":1763.571,"body":"say, what does this really look like?"},{"startTime":1763.781,"endTime":1764.951,"body":"Not for that person who you"},{"startTime":1764.951,"endTime":1766.481,"body":"idolize in the role, but really"},{"startTime":1766.481,"endTime":1767.561,"body":"what does it look like for you?"},{"startTime":1767.621,"endTime":1770.436,"body":"And my job weirdly, becomes about helping"},{"startTime":1770.711,"endTime":1773.621,"body":"them to fall in love lesson by lesson"},{"startTime":1773.861,"endTime":1776.891,"body":"with who they are potentially in the role."},{"startTime":1777.158,"endTime":1777.638,"body":"Love that."},{"startTime":1778.631,"endTime":1780.911,"body":"And that can be a very easy journey."},{"startTime":1781.121,"endTime":1783.341,"body":"It can be a very long and arduous one,"},{"startTime":1783.371,"endTime":1786.971,"body":"depending on how firmly they have, again,"},{"startTime":1786.971,"endTime":1788.981,"body":"that auditory target in mind of, I'm going"},{"startTime":1788.981,"endTime":1792.851,"body":"to sing it like X, Y, Z. Because I do find"},{"startTime":1792.851,"endTime":1794.561,"body":"a number of, particularly younger singers,"},{"startTime":1794.561,"endTime":1797.411,"body":"they feel like if I cannot make the sound"},{"startTime":1797.411,"endTime":1800.321,"body":"that person is making who everyone loves,"},{"startTime":1801.641,"endTime":1803.621,"body":"that is somehow a failure on my part."},{"startTime":1804.191,"endTime":1805.841,"body":"I have, my technique is not good enough"},{"startTime":1805.841,"endTime":1808.851,"body":"yet to Absolutely, drop into that"},{"startTime":1808.851,"endTime":1811.071,"body":"coordination and produce the same effect."},{"startTime":1812.298,"endTime":1813.678,"body":"oh, let's talk about that."},{"startTime":1813.948,"endTime":1815.718,"body":"My technique is not good enough too."},{"startTime":1816.558,"endTime":1818.748,"body":"I love that as a sentence, because"},{"startTime":1818.748,"endTime":1820.428,"body":"it's so easy to knock down."},{"startTime":1820.581,"endTime":1821.181,"body":"it isn't it?"},{"startTime":1821.283,"endTime":1822.273,"body":"really interesting."},{"startTime":1822.273,"endTime":1823.783,"body":"If you think your technique is not"},{"startTime":1823.813,"endTime":1825.583,"body":"good enough to produce someone else's"},{"startTime":1825.583,"endTime":1827.113,"body":"sound, then maybe you should have"},{"startTime":1827.113,"endTime":1828.793,"body":"training as a, an impressionist."},{"startTime":1829.333,"endTime":1831.193,"body":"Because really that's what you"},{"startTime":1831.193,"endTime":1832.993,"body":"are asking yourself to do is"},{"startTime":1832.993,"endTime":1835.273,"body":"to impersonate someone else."},{"startTime":1835.723,"endTime":1838.243,"body":"And I'm absolutely solid on this."},{"startTime":1838.273,"endTime":1841.243,"body":"I want to hear your voice because you as"},{"startTime":1841.243,"endTime":1843.373,"body":"a person are different to that person."},{"startTime":1843.583,"endTime":1844.903,"body":"You have an entire history"},{"startTime":1844.903,"endTime":1845.863,"body":"that you come in with."},{"startTime":1846.043,"endTime":1847.393,"body":"You have a life that you come in"},{"startTime":1847.393,"endTime":1848.953,"body":"with, you have a life experience"},{"startTime":1848.953,"endTime":1850.843,"body":"that you come in with, all of which"},{"startTime":1850.843,"endTime":1852.193,"body":"is reflected in your instrument."},{"startTime":1852.283,"endTime":1853.003,"body":"All of it."},{"startTime":1853.363,"endTime":1854.863,"body":"And I want to hear that."},{"startTime":1855.013,"endTime":1856.063,"body":"I don't want to hear your"},{"startTime":1856.063,"endTime":1857.593,"body":"impression of someone else."},{"startTime":1857.773,"endTime":1859.273,"body":"I'll get that other person in."},{"startTime":1859.273,"endTime":1860.173,"body":"Thank you very much."},{"startTime":1860.323,"endTime":1861.583,"body":"Unless you are phenomenal."},{"startTime":1861.613,"endTime":1863.653,"body":"In which case, do yourself a one man show."},{"startTime":1863.703,"endTime":1864.123,"body":"Indeed."},{"startTime":1864.693,"endTime":1866.553,"body":"I'll tell you a story that I think is"},{"startTime":1866.613,"endTime":1868.683,"body":"I still come back to this quite often"},{"startTime":1868.683,"endTime":1871.273,"body":"in the Voice Studio when we were when"},{"startTime":1871.273,"endTime":1873.643,"body":"I was living my parallel life as an MD"},{"startTime":1873.673,"endTime":1876.893,"body":"on Broadway doing this show right here,"},{"startTime":1876.893,"endTime":1878.008,"body":"gentleman's Guide to Love and Murder"},{"startTime":1878.673,"endTime":1880.983,"body":"which has yet to make it to the West End."},{"startTime":1880.983,"endTime":1883.173,"body":"I cannot put that together in my, it is"},{"startTime":1883.203,"endTime":1885.273,"body":"the most quintessentially British show."},{"startTime":1885.633,"endTime":1886.773,"body":"It's, why it has not"},{"startTime":1886.793,"endTime":1887.693,"body":"made, I cannot explain."},{"startTime":1887.693,"endTime":1889.973,"body":"Anyway side note when we were casting"},{"startTime":1889.973,"endTime":1891.053,"body":"it, we were looking for the role"},{"startTime":1891.053,"endTime":1893.243,"body":"of Ella and we were all discussing"},{"startTime":1893.243,"endTime":1895.183,"body":"this fact that she's the sex kitten."},{"startTime":1895.183,"endTime":1896.173,"body":"If the show had been written"},{"startTime":1896.173,"endTime":1897.373,"body":"20 years earlier, it would've"},{"startTime":1897.373,"endTime":1898.423,"body":"been Bernadette Peters."},{"startTime":1899.263,"endTime":1900.553,"body":"It would've been any"},{"startTime":1900.553,"endTime":1901.513,"body":"number of women in that."},{"startTime":1901.753,"endTime":1903.673,"body":"And we kept bringing ladies in and we"},{"startTime":1903.673,"endTime":1905.263,"body":"kept auditioning and we kept auditioning."},{"startTime":1905.263,"endTime":1907.723,"body":"And finally I remember God rest his soul."},{"startTime":1907.773,"endTime":1909.543,"body":"Jay Bender turns to all of us at the"},{"startTime":1909.543,"endTime":1911.583,"body":"table and he said, I really don't know."},{"startTime":1911.583,"endTime":1913.803,"body":"I can't explain why we cannot"},{"startTime":1913.803,"endTime":1917.373,"body":"find this unique woman."},{"startTime":1917.373,"endTime":1919.413,"body":"Like, why all everybody's coming"},{"startTime":1919.413,"endTime":1921.153,"body":"in and we're getting homogeneity."},{"startTime":1921.423,"endTime":1922.623,"body":"We're just getting the"},{"startTime":1922.623,"endTime":1923.703,"body":"same thing over and over."},{"startTime":1923.703,"endTime":1924.723,"body":"I cannot explain that."},{"startTime":1924.993,"endTime":1925.843,"body":"And I said, having,"},{"startTime":1925.893,"endTime":1926.013,"body":"I"},{"startTime":1926.071,"endTime":1927.65,"body":"I put my hand out there and I"},{"startTime":1927.65,"endTime":1929.36,"body":"said, having just come out of the"},{"startTime":1929.36,"endTime":1932.87,"body":"academic setting, I can, it is that"},{"startTime":1932.87,"endTime":1934.52,"body":"we are training for homogeneity."},{"startTime":1936.05,"endTime":1937.43,"body":"We don't want, we're not thinking"},{"startTime":1937.43,"endTime":1938.36,"body":"we're doing it, but we are"},{"startTime":1938.36,"endTime":1940.1,"body":"often training for homogeneity."},{"startTime":1940.1,"endTime":1943.135,"body":"And so I often think if somebody if"},{"startTime":1943.135,"endTime":1944.515,"body":"Bernadette Peters had been coming"},{"startTime":1944.515,"endTime":1946.685,"body":"up in her career to use her in as"},{"startTime":1946.685,"endTime":1948.755,"body":"example, and she had felt that she"},{"startTime":1948.755,"endTime":1950.645,"body":"had to make the same sound as Barbara"},{"startTime":1950.645,"endTime":1952.265,"body":"Streisand, she had to make this sound"},{"startTime":1952.265,"endTime":1955.535,"body":"as x, y, Z, the loss to our craft,"},{"startTime":1955.535,"endTime":1957.85,"body":"the loss to our to our industry,"},{"startTime":1957.935,"endTime":1959.635,"body":"that would've been, don't stifle."},{"startTime":1959.635,"endTime":1961.165,"body":"I have literally written right here on the"},{"startTime":1961.165,"endTime":1963.505,"body":"wall, see if I can turn my camera here."},{"startTime":1963.505,"endTime":1965.605,"body":"This glorious Martha gr"},{"startTime":1965.605,"endTime":1965.855,"body":"I think"},{"startTime":1965.855,"endTime":1966.535,"body":"I spotted it we"},{"startTime":1966.565,"endTime":1967.705,"body":"Martha Graham quote."},{"startTime":1967.705,"endTime":1969.695,"body":"Do you see that there it's backwards"},{"startTime":1969.695,"endTime":1971.915,"body":"from your view, but what it says is"},{"startTime":1971.915,"endTime":1974.225,"body":"there is a vitality, a life force,"},{"startTime":1974.225,"endTime":1976.325,"body":"an energy, a quickening that is"},{"startTime":1976.325,"endTime":1978.455,"body":"translated through you into action."},{"startTime":1978.635,"endTime":1980.285,"body":"And because there's only one of you in"},{"startTime":1980.285,"endTime":1982.565,"body":"all the time, this expression is unique"},{"startTime":1982.595,"endTime":1985.025,"body":"and if you block it, it will never exist"},{"startTime":1985.025,"endTime":1987.305,"body":"through any other medium and will be lost."},{"startTime":1987.365,"endTime":1988.775,"body":"And I feel like if that"},{"startTime":1988.775,"endTime":1989.735,"body":"doesn't say it all."},{"startTime":1990.042,"endTime":1991.167,"body":"That's beautiful."},{"startTime":1991.377,"endTime":1992.517,"body":"That's really lovely."},{"startTime":1992.967,"endTime":1994.557,"body":"And actually I love the way, 'cause"},{"startTime":1994.557,"endTime":1996.217,"body":"you've got this on your website."},{"startTime":1996.547,"endTime":1997.957,"body":"I love the way that you talk"},{"startTime":1997.957,"endTime":2001.287,"body":"about not homogenizing the voices"},{"startTime":2001.287,"endTime":2002.697,"body":"of the singers you work with."},{"startTime":2003.087,"endTime":2006.957,"body":"There isn't a Mike Ruckles studio sound."},{"startTime":2007.012,"endTime":2007.762,"body":"Oh, I hope not."},{"startTime":2008.03,"endTime":2009.02,"body":"I very much hope not."},{"startTime":2009.407,"endTime":2010.517,"body":"I think that's really important."},{"startTime":2011.09,"endTime":2012.24,"body":"yeah, it's an interesting"},{"startTime":2012.24,"endTime":2013.53,"body":"topic as we think about."},{"startTime":2014.52,"endTime":2017.64,"body":"I remember when I was writing my thesis"},{"startTime":2017.64,"endTime":2020.52,"body":"on the Belt voice, I was fortunate enough"},{"startTime":2020.52,"endTime":2022.98,"body":"to interview Patti Lupone at that time."},{"startTime":2022.98,"endTime":2024.09,"body":"And I remember asking her, one"},{"startTime":2024.09,"endTime":2025.53,"body":"of the questions was, do you"},{"startTime":2025.53,"endTime":2027.09,"body":"feel that the Broadway voice is"},{"startTime":2027.09,"endTime":2029.37,"body":"becoming increasingly homogenous?"},{"startTime":2030.48,"endTime":2032.39,"body":"And her answer that had a lot of"},{"startTime":2032.39,"endTime":2036.11,"body":"expletives in it was, yes, I do."},{"startTime":2036.11,"endTime":2037.393,"body":"And, And Isn't it boring?"},{"startTime":2037.393,"endTime":2040.643,"body":"She said, and now, I'm of two minds"},{"startTime":2040.643,"endTime":2042.203,"body":"and I'm curious to hear your thoughts"},{"startTime":2042.203,"endTime":2043.733,"body":"on this because I think some of that"},{"startTime":2043.733,"endTime":2045.653,"body":"homogeneity that we might be picking"},{"startTime":2045.653,"endTime":2047.813,"body":"up on or feeling like there's a cookie"},{"startTime":2047.813,"endTime":2050.153,"body":"cutter quality coming out of the BFA"},{"startTime":2050.153,"endTime":2052.073,"body":"programs here in the United States,"},{"startTime":2054.083,"endTime":2056.123,"body":"does it come from a necessarily bad place?"},{"startTime":2056.123,"endTime":2059.813,"body":"It comes from a study of what kind of"},{"startTime":2059.813,"endTime":2062.213,"body":"voices do we hear fairing very well eight"},{"startTime":2062.213,"endTime":2064.793,"body":"shows a week, what kinds of voices, what"},{"startTime":2064.828,"endTime":2067.933,"body":"kind of resonance qualities and strategies"},{"startTime":2067.933,"endTime":2071.983,"body":"do we hear aging well and dominating"},{"startTime":2072.013,"endTime":2074.173,"body":"on the great White way or the West end."},{"startTime":2074.593,"endTime":2075.793,"body":"And so I think there's"},{"startTime":2075.793,"endTime":2076.903,"body":"something to be said for that."},{"startTime":2076.903,"endTime":2077.743,"body":"I think there's something to"},{"startTime":2077.743,"endTime":2080.983,"body":"be said for looking at trends"},{"startTime":2081.013,"endTime":2083.403,"body":"as well as sustainability."},{"startTime":2083.566,"endTime":2084.336,"body":"best practice."},{"startTime":2084.888,"endTime":2085.758,"body":"Best practice."},{"startTime":2085.758,"endTime":2086.358,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":2086.358,"endTime":2087.798,"body":"That would be the best way to put it."},{"startTime":2087.888,"endTime":2088.848,"body":"And so there's something"},{"startTime":2088.848,"endTime":2089.778,"body":"to be said for that."},{"startTime":2089.838,"endTime":2091.608,"body":"That being said, I think we can"},{"startTime":2091.608,"endTime":2094.218,"body":"honor all of the above and find the"},{"startTime":2094.218,"endTime":2097.758,"body":"organic unique juice of who you are."},{"startTime":2098.476,"endTime":2100.066,"body":"And that's the bit that I think"},{"startTime":2100.066,"endTime":2101.656,"body":"often happens when you've finished"},{"startTime":2101.656,"endTime":2104.516,"body":"your MFA program or your, your"},{"startTime":2104.516,"endTime":2106.766,"body":"masters in the uk, for example,"},{"startTime":2106.766,"endTime":2109.416,"body":"or your BA in Performing Arts,"},{"startTime":2109.853,"endTime":2112.263,"body":"Well, I don't know about the universities"},{"startTime":2112.343,"endTime":2114.593,"body":"in England, but I will say that there"},{"startTime":2114.593,"endTime":2116.243,"body":"is enormous pressure having taught at"},{"startTime":2116.243,"endTime":2118.013,"body":"the academic level in a BFA program."},{"startTime":2118.253,"endTime":2120.683,"body":"There's enormous pressure to turn"},{"startTime":2120.683,"endTime":2124.343,"body":"out every senior as a sparkling"},{"startTime":2124.343,"endTime":2126.953,"body":"marketable package, and they have to"},{"startTime":2126.953,"endTime":2128.843,"body":"be serving up to the casting director."},{"startTime":2128.843,"endTime":2129.863,"body":"This is who I am."},{"startTime":2130.043,"endTime":2132.593,"body":"I'm walking in Aaron Tveit's footsteps."},{"startTime":2132.773,"endTime":2135.383,"body":"I'm walking in Josh Gad's footsteps."},{"startTime":2135.383,"endTime":2136.733,"body":"I'm a this, I'm a, that."},{"startTime":2137.313,"endTime":2138.873,"body":"Here's the label you can put on me."},{"startTime":2141.046,"endTime":2141.766,"body":"It's very Okay."},{"startTime":2142.336,"endTime":2142.576,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":2142.576,"endTime":2143.386,"body":"That's good to hear."},{"startTime":2143.391,"endTime":2145.401,"body":"Let's talk about employability, because I"},{"startTime":2145.401,"endTime":2147.791,"body":"think this is a really fascinating topic."},{"startTime":2148.061,"endTime":2151.901,"body":"So much of training is geared towards"},{"startTime":2151.901,"endTime":2154.631,"body":"a very narrow area of employability."},{"startTime":2155.261,"endTime":2159.941,"body":"So it's like this entire 28 students in"},{"startTime":2159.941,"endTime":2163.121,"body":"this year all have to end up on Broadway."},{"startTime":2163.601,"endTime":2164.411,"body":"And I'm going, first of all,"},{"startTime":2164.411,"endTime":2165.311,"body":"what are the chances of that?"},{"startTime":2165.311,"endTime":2165.371,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2166.161,"endTime":2167.511,"body":"Because the numbers just aren't there."},{"startTime":2167.781,"endTime":2168.531,"body":"But also."},{"startTime":2169.396,"endTime":2171.916,"body":"Why are you not finding"},{"startTime":2171.916,"endTime":2174.466,"body":"what people are capable of?"},{"startTime":2174.886,"endTime":2176.146,"body":"Where their interests lie?"},{"startTime":2176.146,"endTime":2178.156,"body":"What somebody might have something"},{"startTime":2178.156,"endTime":2179.836,"body":"that's quirky, that might fit into"},{"startTime":2179.836,"endTime":2181.786,"body":"a different genre, it might fit into"},{"startTime":2181.786,"endTime":2183.736,"body":"a different mode of communication."},{"startTime":2183.846,"endTime":2185.196,"body":"It might fit into a different space."},{"startTime":2185.256,"endTime":2185.946,"body":"Excuse me."},{"startTime":2186.071,"endTime":2188.381,"body":"I have forged my career from"},{"startTime":2188.381,"endTime":2190.211,"body":"start to finish by myself."},{"startTime":2190.211,"endTime":2190.721,"body":"Thank you."},{"startTime":2190.771,"endTime":2192.481,"body":"So I am speaking from experience where"},{"startTime":2192.481,"endTime":2194.101,"body":"I've never really fitted anywhere."},{"startTime":2194.401,"endTime":2195.781,"body":"And so you have to create your"},{"startTime":2195.781,"endTime":2197.161,"body":"own stuff or you look for stuff"},{"startTime":2197.161,"endTime":2198.901,"body":"that are in corners or whatever."},{"startTime":2199.321,"endTime":2201.121,"body":"And I think that's the difficulty"},{"startTime":2201.121,"endTime":2202.741,"body":"is that a lot of courses are geared"},{"startTime":2202.741,"endTime":2205.441,"body":"to a very narrow employability."},{"startTime":2205.441,"endTime":2205.621,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2205.956,"endTime":2207.666,"body":"Thing instead of giving"},{"startTime":2207.666,"endTime":2209.616,"body":"you transferable skills."},{"startTime":2209.616,"endTime":2212.276,"body":"And some courses do that, and"},{"startTime":2212.276,"endTime":2214.956,"body":"show you how to perhaps have more."},{"startTime":2214.956,"endTime":2218.226,"body":"What's the what's the buzz term about"},{"startTime":2218.226,"endTime":2220.931,"body":"having a multifaceted career portfolio?"},{"startTime":2220.936,"endTime":2222.066,"body":"Portfolio career?"},{"startTime":2222.516,"endTime":2222.606,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2222.666,"endTime":2224.646,"body":"Helping people build portfolio"},{"startTime":2224.646,"endTime":2226.326,"body":"careers, which to be honest, is"},{"startTime":2226.326,"endTime":2227.676,"body":"what most people are gonna need"},{"startTime":2227.676,"endTime":2228.936,"body":"if they're gonna make a living."},{"startTime":2229.576,"endTime":2230.566,"body":"Because they're not all"},{"startTime":2230.566,"endTime":2232.546,"body":"gonna become Broadway stars."},{"startTime":2233.056,"endTime":2236.096,"body":"So I dunno how much that's, like the"},{"startTime":2236.096,"endTime":2238.136,"body":"colleges giving people the impression"},{"startTime":2238.136,"endTime":2240.656,"body":"they're gonna get that or if it's out"},{"startTime":2240.656,"endTime":2242.576,"body":"there in the culture and therefore"},{"startTime":2242.906,"endTime":2245.036,"body":"the young performers are coming in"},{"startTime":2245.036,"endTime":2247.026,"body":"with that, that big starry-eyed thing."},{"startTime":2247.086,"endTime":2248.706,"body":"I want to be this."},{"startTime":2249.338,"endTime":2250.828,"body":"And the fascinating thing is on"},{"startTime":2250.828,"endTime":2252.358,"body":"the other side of the table, these"},{"startTime":2252.358,"endTime":2254.018,"body":"casting directors who and agents"},{"startTime":2254.018,"endTime":2255.998,"body":"who are coming to the showcases"},{"startTime":2255.998,"endTime":2257.768,"body":"and seeing what's being turned out."},{"startTime":2258.428,"endTime":2259.928,"body":"I'm talking with them every day."},{"startTime":2259.928,"endTime":2261.638,"body":"The people they're talking to me"},{"startTime":2261.638,"endTime":2264.808,"body":"about the graduates that are exciting"},{"startTime":2264.808,"endTime":2266.518,"body":"them and lighting them up are"},{"startTime":2266.518,"endTime":2267.748,"body":"the ones who are not fitting into"},{"startTime":2267.816,"endTime":2267.976,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2269.108,"endTime":2270.668,"body":"That's who they want to talk about."},{"startTime":2270.668,"endTime":2271.898,"body":"They don't want to talk about, oh this"},{"startTime":2271.898,"endTime":2273.818,"body":"girl is such a great Sutton Foster."},{"startTime":2273.988,"endTime":2275.788,"body":"She's just like, she can cover"},{"startTime":2275.788,"endTime":2277.528,"body":"Sutton and they want to talk about"},{"startTime":2277.828,"endTime":2279.328,"body":"there's nobody like this girl,"},{"startTime":2279.328,"endTime":2280.678,"body":"or there's nobody like this guy."},{"startTime":2280.678,"endTime":2281.938,"body":"And they're so unique in"},{"startTime":2281.938,"endTime":2283.948,"body":"their skillset and they offer"},{"startTime":2283.948,"endTime":2285.358,"body":"something I haven't seen before."},{"startTime":2285.456,"endTime":2286.896,"body":"Because we all offer something"},{"startTime":2286.896,"endTime":2288.096,"body":"no one's seen before,"},{"startTime":2288.213,"endTime":2288.753,"body":"Correct?"},{"startTime":2289.116,"endTime":2291.036,"body":"but we have to be given that opportunity"},{"startTime":2291.213,"endTime":2291.513,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2292.173,"endTime":2292.353,"body":"And"},{"startTime":2292.353,"endTime":2293.253,"body":"to let it flourish."},{"startTime":2293.49,"endTime":2294.6,"body":"therefore it has to be"},{"startTime":2294.6,"endTime":2295.98,"body":"within the training programs."},{"startTime":2295.98,"endTime":2297.36,"body":"And I think it's fair to say"},{"startTime":2297.36,"endTime":2300.57,"body":"that often it isn't or it isn't"},{"startTime":2300.57,"endTime":2302.61,"body":"enough, and it's something that."},{"startTime":2303.3,"endTime":2305.18,"body":"Well, certainly when we did the musical"},{"startTime":2305.18,"endTime":2308.63,"body":"Theater Educators conference, which was"},{"startTime":2308.63,"endTime":2312.13,"body":"in last July in the uk this, and obviously"},{"startTime":2312.13,"endTime":2314.29,"body":"most of the attendees were American."},{"startTime":2314.68,"endTime":2316.24,"body":"They were talking about this and they"},{"startTime":2316.24,"endTime":2317.74,"body":"were feeling really passionate, that"},{"startTime":2317.74,"endTime":2320.35,"body":"they wanted to develop the individual"},{"startTime":2320.35,"endTime":2322.63,"body":"artist and that there was this"},{"startTime":2322.66,"endTime":2324.52,"body":"dichotomy that they would, they were"},{"startTime":2324.52,"endTime":2326.54,"body":"going through as trainers, which is."},{"startTime":2327.06,"endTime":2328.93,"body":"We've got to, produce this finished"},{"startTime":2328.93,"endTime":2330.82,"body":"product at the end that is marketable."},{"startTime":2331.12,"endTime":2333.76,"body":"But in fact, in terms of duty of care"},{"startTime":2333.76,"endTime":2336.28,"body":"and really developing the artist within,"},{"startTime":2336.7,"endTime":2338.68,"body":"what we really want is the opportunity"},{"startTime":2338.68,"endTime":2340.57,"body":"to take people in a different direction."},{"startTime":2341.13,"endTime":2342.3,"body":"And that's hard for them as"},{"startTime":2342.3,"endTime":2343.83,"body":"trainers too, because of course"},{"startTime":2343.83,"endTime":2344.94,"body":"they need to keep their jobs."},{"startTime":2345.3,"endTime":2346.68,"body":"Well, Mike, you've been on both sides"},{"startTime":2346.68,"endTime":2348.58,"body":"of this because you've been involved in"},{"startTime":2348.58,"endTime":2350.53,"body":"training programs in universities and"},{"startTime":2350.53,"endTime":2353.32,"body":"also you are a freelance trainer yourself."},{"startTime":2353.32,"endTime":2354.43,"body":"And so those, to me, those are"},{"startTime":2354.43,"endTime":2355.78,"body":"two entirely different sides."},{"startTime":2356.17,"endTime":2357.37,"body":"How do you deal with that?"},{"startTime":2359.203,"endTime":2361.363,"body":"Well, I have enormous respect"},{"startTime":2361.423,"endTime":2364.153,"body":"and empathy for those who are"},{"startTime":2364.153,"endTime":2365.713,"body":"in these BFA programs because I"},{"startTime":2365.713,"endTime":2367.573,"body":"remember the pressures very well."},{"startTime":2367.993,"endTime":2369.943,"body":"There's enormous pressure to"},{"startTime":2369.943,"endTime":2372.043,"body":"raise the national standing of"},{"startTime":2372.043,"endTime":2374.413,"body":"your program as there should be."},{"startTime":2374.413,"endTime":2375.313,"body":"We all want to be in a"},{"startTime":2375.313,"endTime":2376.373,"body":"program of excellence."},{"startTime":2376.373,"endTime":2378.413,"body":"Nobody goes into this to, to try"},{"startTime":2378.413,"endTime":2380.303,"body":"to be in a subpar music theater,"},{"startTime":2380.303,"endTime":2382.133,"body":"BFA program teaching there, right?"},{"startTime":2382.133,"endTime":2383.123,"body":"We all want, and we want"},{"startTime":2383.123,"endTime":2383.933,"body":"the best for our students."},{"startTime":2383.933,"endTime":2385.013,"body":"We want the training level"},{"startTime":2385.013,"endTime":2386.093,"body":"to rise and all of this."},{"startTime":2386.573,"endTime":2389.423,"body":"And yet what often comes"},{"startTime":2389.423,"endTime":2392.543,"body":"along with that is a mistake."},{"startTime":2392.543,"endTime":2394.403,"body":"And I hope that it is beginning to change"},{"startTime":2394.513,"endTime":2396.283,"body":"having not been in the academic setting"},{"startTime":2396.283,"endTime":2399.863,"body":"for over a decade now, it's possible"},{"startTime":2399.863,"endTime":2402.383,"body":"that we've really seen a swing towards"},{"startTime":2402.773,"endTime":2404.813,"body":"some new ways of thinking about training."},{"startTime":2405.023,"endTime":2406.583,"body":"But I do have empathy because I"},{"startTime":2406.583,"endTime":2408.443,"body":"remember those pressures very well."},{"startTime":2408.803,"endTime":2412.043,"body":"My job on the other side now of that BFA"},{"startTime":2412.493,"endTime":2414.903,"body":"is that I, on the daily I'm seeing people"},{"startTime":2414.903,"endTime":2416.583,"body":"who have just graduated just come through"},{"startTime":2416.583,"endTime":2418.068,"body":"that showcase and they wanna show me."},{"startTime":2418.623,"endTime":2420.513,"body":"The marketable thing that they've just"},{"startTime":2420.513,"endTime":2422.433,"body":"been, shot out into the world to do."},{"startTime":2422.823,"endTime":2425.103,"body":"And I want to validate that while"},{"startTime":2425.103,"endTime":2427.233,"body":"also opening their horizons."},{"startTime":2428.19,"endTime":2429.96,"body":"There are so many questions that we"},{"startTime":2429.96,"endTime":2432.3,"body":"have for you and we've already asked so"},{"startTime":2432.3,"endTime":2434.25,"body":"many, but we know that we've gotta stop."},{"startTime":2434.25,"endTime":2436.23,"body":"So we're gonna invite you back next week."},{"startTime":2436.51,"endTime":2437.44,"body":"Will you come back?"},{"startTime":2437.953,"endTime":2438.673,"body":"Of course."},{"startTime":2439.36,"endTime":2440.98,"body":"So we'll see you next time."},{"startTime":2441.13,"endTime":2441.79,"body":"Bye."},{"startTime":2442.123,"endTime":2442.483,"body":"Bye."},{"startTime":2454.585,"endTime":2458.005,"body":"This is a voice, a podcast with Dr."},{"startTime":2458.005,"endTime":2460.075,"body":"Gillyanne Kayes and Jeremy Fisher."}]}