The Scott Townsend Show
Conversations, perspectives, and insight from some of the brightest minds, facilitated by everyone's friend, Scott Townsend
The Scott Townsend Show
#237 OSU's Mike Gundy: Time To Pass The Torch?
Ben and Scott discuss whether it's time for Mike Gundy to step down as Oklahoma State's head football coach after the team's devastating loss to Oregon.
• Gundy transformed OSU from an afterthought into a nationally respected program with 15 Top 25 finishes
• Last season was Gundy's worst as head coach with only three wins
• The Oregon game exposed fundamental issues with coaching, discipline, and player development
• OSU's performance compared to Oklahoma shows a significant gap despite more coaching changes at OU
• Like Kodak's failure to adapt to digital photography, Gundy may be unable to take the program to the next level
• The best path forward would be for Gundy to resign gracefully to preserve his legacy while allowing fresh leadership
• A leadership change would likely improve recruiting and revitalize the program with new energy and innovation
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What I'm not doing as an OSU fan and a fan of Mike Gundy, is running Mike Gundy down. I think everybody should be very appreciative of what he did for the program but, just like the guy who wrote the book, what got you here is not going to get you there the failure to adapt. Somebody has a good run. They build a program to a certain point, but can they take it to that next step? And I think that the answer for Gundy is no, he can't. No, he can't.
Speaker 3:Welcome to the Scott Townsend Show brought to you by Dietzelman Productions.
Speaker 4:So, hey, welcome back to the Scott Townsend Show show. This is scott, and I'm joined by good friend, little brother, executive producer, all-around, great guy, sweet ben, townsend ben, what's going on?
Speaker 1:not much, just uh doing a little research on stuff this morning and, um, just kind of going pouring over some news, financial news and stuff. So what'd?
Speaker 4:you have for breakfast, this morning coffee I know I've been doing intermittent fasting too, and right now I'm so hungry. Oh my gosh, see, I don't get hungry anymore, you don't?
Speaker 1:No, I guess I've been doing this now for probably about I don't know maybe eight weeks or something. Oh yeah, longer than me, but I never really did, oh man, I just spilled coffee all over the place. I never really did get hungry. Yeah. I mean not really. And the longer I go with it, the less I get hungry with it. I mean not really.
Speaker 4:And the longer I go with it, the less I have an issue Right now if I pass out.
Speaker 1:It's just low blood sugar. Well, I got to say you look good. I mean you've slimmed down a little bit. Not that you looked bad before, but you look good.
Speaker 4:I appreciate that. Yeah, there's a picture of you and Janet that you sent on your anniversary and I was like man Ben's really cutting it down man.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's things like you know. It's things like you know certain things in my diet. Like man, I love bread, I just do and uh, but it doesn't love me back you know and, um, you know, eating bread and stuff and anything that's like.
Speaker 1:You know anything with grains in it. It's just something I'm limiting and it's not faddish for me. I don't care about that stuff. It used to kind of like, that's kind of like. Oh, brother, you know, I hear people talk about gluten-free stuff. But it's real. Janice, very gluten sensitive she, I mean, that's super real for her and right, you know, as I've kind of learned more about I've realized that I I have a little bit of sensitivity to gluten also. Oh yeah, so I'm just making changes, you know, a few changes to, uh, remove that so there's bread you can buy that's more seed based and it is different, yes, um, but it's not, it's not something that I have to have. You know the regular bread, grain-made bread from wheat and stuff. So I made that substitution at Switch.
Speaker 4:We have some of that grain bread. You know it's kind of hard. It's harder bread. You know it's a little stiffer.
Speaker 1:The sprouted grain bread.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and I told Celeste the other day. I said man, I just want some Wonder Bread. I want some Mrs.
Speaker 4:Baird's, I know, yeah, left the other day I said, man, I just want some wonder bread, I want some mrs, I know, I know, yeah, I want a good old soft bleach, white bleach, flour, you know, uh, peanut butter and jelly sandwich but you know, there we are, you know I guess I could do that like every once in a while. But yeah, knowing how it's not that great for you, it's easy to steer away from it. But yeah, I don't know, I might break down, just keep a loaf handy and whatever. But anyway.
Speaker 1:Okay, put some glass in case of emergency break glass kind of thing yeah, break out the miss bairds.
Speaker 4:Yeah yeah, miss Baird's bread Used to get that at the Piglet Wiggly back in the day, back in Waco, texas. So what's on your mind, sweet Ben? You got your OSU shirt on. I should have worn an OSU shirt today. We're talking. What are we talking about? I?
Speaker 1:think we need to talk about OSU. What's irritating you?
Speaker 4:We need to talk about it. What's the itch you want to scratch today? Did you watch the game? No, this last weekend. Bring everybody up to speed for those who might not, for that one or two people out there that might not know what we're getting ready to talk about two people out there that might not know what we're getting ready to talk about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so so on Saturday I think they kicked off around 245. Oklahoma State played Oregon. Of course Oklahoma, and listen, I I've kind of been out of um professional football, like all together and really most sports. I've just been focused on doing other things. I have followed the Cowboys in prior seasons Last season just too busy with stuff going on in our personal lives with Janet's recovery from all her cancer stuff, it just was lower priority. But they had an abysmal season last year.
Speaker 4:Yeah, 2024,. Was that their worst season, or? One of the worst seasons they've had in a long time.
Speaker 1:I think it's Gundy's worst season yeah, gundy's worst season yeah.
Speaker 1:So you know they had a bad season last year and it was, I guess, seeing that, I was surprised how fast and how far they fell from the prior season, because I think in 2023, I wrote down some numbers, I think they end the season 2023 ranked number 18. You know what I mean? That's pretty good. And then they have a season where they just like drop off the cliff and they had you cliff and they managed to win three games. I think, yeah, three games.
Speaker 4:Wow, only three games. So how can you go that? Far that fast?
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a good question, and I don't know, because I didn't watch those games. I would catch some of them every once in a while, but I just didn't stick with it enough to really be able to speak authoritatively about what happened there other than kind of the big picture view that I've had for, um, you know, probably at least 12 years, I'll say 12 years longer yeah, um, and you know it's just, it's just kind of uh to me like I remember going to Oklahoma State.
Speaker 1:We went there the same year. You had your first year at KU and I was one year behind you and I went to OSU for my first year. So my first year there you transferred in. We were there at the same time. Right, that was 1983, fall of 1983.
Speaker 4:Back in the Jimmy, was it Jimmy Jones? And?
Speaker 1:Jimmy Johnson.
Speaker 4:Jimmy Johnson and uh Pat, pat, pat Pat.
Speaker 1:Well, he came later, but he was a defensive coordinator. Pat Jones, pat Jones. Yes, yeah, that's right, I'd forgotten about Pat Jones. I like Pat Jones. I like Jimmy Johnson too. Um, and I remember Jimmy Johnson too. Those were back in the.
Speaker 4:Barry Sanders days.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and before him Thurman Thomas.
Speaker 1:Thurman Thomas yeah, I remember going to Oklahoma State and knowing that Thurman Thomas was a good back, I remember going up there and watching him down there on the field running around like God. It was just amazing. He went on to the Buffalo Bills and I think he set buffalo bills rushing records which I think may have it may have been broken like that. That. What last night? That that game, the, the buffalo bills and, uh, the ravens, baltimore ravens that was a wild game, fun game to watch. Huh, that was two teams that had no give up in them anywhere and it was two heavyweights just brawling to the end Just slugging it out. Yeah, and the Bills kind of like trailed for most of the game. And really just watching the game I'm like, well, the Ravens have the upper hand here. I mean, they just look a little bit better. And what's the running back's name?
Speaker 1:from alabama um sorry, I can't help you there oh gosh, uh, anyway, uh, anybody watching this is going to scream at the camera. Right now come on you gotta derrick.
Speaker 1:What huh? Derrick, henry, derrick, henry, that guy is a stud and and, and he's not only big and stronger than everybody else, he's also fast and he can put distance between himself and somebody who has a safety, who has blazing speed, and that's why they're back there in a cornerback or safety position. He can create space between those guys in just a foot race, 70 yards to the goal line, and stiff-armed guys just make them look foolish as they try to tackle him. The guys, they stud, and he did have a critical fumble towards the end of that game. Anyway, this isn't about that game, but we were talking about Thurman Thomas, and so I think Thurman Thomas record may have been beat last night in like whatever the stat was that they were showing on the screen, um, but Thurman Thomas to run around.
Speaker 1:Then I remember Barry Sanders showed up and he was running kickoff returns and stuff, and Thurman Thomas was still, you know, in the backfield and, as I recall, and and Barry Sanders was, you know, running kickoff returns. Yeah, he's, like you know, running through everybody and like scoring touchdowns things. Oh, wow, you know, and everybody's like, well, barry sanders, like you know, it's amazing running back. He may be even better than thurman thomas. I'm like well, how is that even possible? You know, because thurman thomas was a heisman candidate and, uh, recognized one of the one of the best, if not the best, running back in the country. Right, and here we have barry sanders who looked just, I mean, no shade on him, I mean he looked every bit as good as barry sanders, just kind of head scratcher.
Speaker 1:Well, it turns out we just had this really rare thing forming up yeah, where you have these two heisman quality backs showing up at a school like oklahoma state right, you know lightning striking twice, yeah yeah, exactly, and so those kind of things are rare, you know, and but they're great when they happen and we were there to watch all that. But along with that so great along with that, I remember watching uh gundy, mike gundy, at quarterback.
Speaker 1:You, you know quarterback playing out there and uh, and he did a great job, very, very good. Um, you know he, uh, he had a lot of will to win and he, you know, was a very successful quarterback at Oklahoma state. I mean the whole team was was really good back then. I remember you guys that kind of wrote about a lot in the old college like Igo and Segelski, offensive linemen. You had Leslie O'Neill, leslie O'Neill Just a bunch of guys like that. Leslie went on to play. I think he played for the Chargers, I'm not sure I think it was the Chargers. Then he went on to maybe a couple other teams before he retired, but he was like an incredible talent also.
Speaker 4:It was a golden. Those were some golden years. I mean, we were there to witness it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it really was, it was great. But so I remember all that and I remember, you know, thinking about those guys and wow about those guys, and wow, you know that the these guys are amazing. And then when mike gundy came in to osu, I think in 2003 or 4, as the head coach, you know I want, I remember thinking I wonder if he can like kind of parlay his, his success as a quarterback into a head coach, right? You know head coaching position, yeah, and kind of?
Speaker 1:can he? Can he, you know, succeed? You know at that level as a head coach for oklahoma state, that that he did as a player, quarterback, key position, hands on the ball, every single possession. You know for oklahoma state when he was playing. You know back in the day in the in the early to mid 80s. And I think the answer to that question is yes, yes, he, he was able to come in and, you know, take the, the cowboys kind of to to a new um level of performance right it took.
Speaker 1:It took a little while, you know. I was looking at the um, I was looking at the ap rankings for osu. So I was doing, I did some research on that this morning, looking at the AP rankings for OSU. I did some research on that this morning. I was looking at it. I don't think they were ranked at the end of the season 2004, through 2008,. Through 2007, but then in 2008, I think they were ranked number 10, finishing the season number 10, and then the next year 7 and the next year 11 and the next year 16. So that's those. Those are strong numbers, strong performances. So he's, you know, he has this thing where he's like, you know, building this program. When you do great things like that, you know you, you get um, you get better recruiting classes because people want to come and participate, people want to donate.
Speaker 1:People want to donate yep and boone pickens, most notably. So you know there were some others as well, um, but you know, he, he, um, he did a lot for the program and and he took it to a higher level. But you know, it's kind of watching their, their performance, you know, and and they had some teams in there when they they should have been, and so so I I've been kind of comparing them to oh you, okay, there's all kinds and I'm not, I'm not steven a smith here, you know, I'm just I'm just ben, you know, and I'm I'm kind of going back on my own recollection and my time there and my kind of my status as a as a fan over the years and but I remember you know it was like probably around 2012 they had I forget what year it was, but I think they went in to norman.
Speaker 1:I can't remember which year it was, but they, I think they went in to Norman. I can't remember which year it was, but they went into Norman with a great team and OU was so beat up at the time. They had a very good team too, but they were plagued with injuries and they had a lot of their stars on the sidelines, couldn't play and OU was hurting so bad to have people out there who could really compete at a high level Not that they weren't, they shouldn't have the in the ring experience yet. I joke with people and say they were practically calling students down out of the stands to put on a uniform and get on the offensive line. The guy playing tuba, hey, come down here and put on a uniform. Um, but osu went in and they should have won that game and they and they got beat. And I'm like, okay, if you go back and look at the history of ou osu. Ou definitely has the upper hand in ou osu games it's always so discouraging.
Speaker 1:It's a heartbreaker for osu fans, but you got to hand it to ou. Really, yeah, I mean, uh, you can, people can hate on them if they want, but I think there's there's a lesson to be learned from how ou puts together consistently winning teams and how, in a bedlam series you know within the state of oklahoma, you know how they can they can consistently come out on top.
Speaker 4:I know it was always so depressing when OU would come to Stillwater because you want to win so bad, but you know it's not going to happen. It didn't for the longest time, it seems like, and we had a few wins, but yeah, it was kind of demoralizing.
Speaker 1:I remember one year, and I think this was maybe my junior year I remember we were playing OU in Stillwater. We had good seats at this game. We were on the 40-yard line, halfway up. We had a great team. And we were like on the 40 yard line, halfway up and we we had a great team and we were beating oh you. You know, it's like all right, you know we're going to beat oh you this year. You know, so late in the game we were up by like four or five points, something I don't remember exactly score, something like that and there was um, I think ohU had tried to go down and score and they couldn't score. Our defense stopped them great defense and so OU was kicking off. Let's see, no, no, actually they had scored, they had scored and they were kicking off, but we were still ahead like four or five points or something.
Speaker 1:And so OU kicked off and they did the squib kick thing and it hit one of our players right there in the helmet standing 15 yards away and it bounced straight back into the arms of Scott Case I believe it was scott case, for, oh, you used to as a defensive player, but he was, you know um, so they were kicking off so it made sense that he was on that team, yeah, but he, he got the ball and now, oh, all of a sudden, oh, you had another possession and they wound up going down and scoring. I can't remember, was a field goal, now, or or a touchdown?
Speaker 1:I don't remember if it was a field goal now or a touchdown, I don't remember what it was, but whatever score it was, it was enough to win the game at the last second. I mean there was seconds on the clock. I mean just enough time to run your three or four possessions to get down in position to score. And they scored.
Speaker 4:Nothing looks worse than having a football bounce off your helmet.
Speaker 1:That was so demoralizing. It was. It was embarrassing.
Speaker 1:I think it's probably how maybe not even as severe, but how the Ravens fans felt last night after playing such great smash-mouth football and really not making that many mistakes, just had that one key fumble by one of their key players. And you know, you lead the game the whole time, you feel certain you have victory right there in your season opener against a very good Bills team, and then all of a sudden they come from behind and just kind of pull and so anyway, I remember it leaving just like completely demoralized. So it was. You know those kind of those things over the years I think OSU fans kind of have to deal with.
Speaker 1:There's this kind of psychology. I think that runs deep in OSU athletics, aside from the student body and things. I think it's a generational psychological challenge. You know that is kind of built up against beating OU and you know, and OU's just had better teams. So I think you've got to look at programs like OU and others to say, okay, they're doing something, they're consistently creating better results. How are they doing that? You know, and so I was looking at, you know, some of these stats and this is just my own, so I was just researching this stuff. Today. I'm looking at the number in the Gundy era. So I think he took over the team in 2004,.
Speaker 4:I think 2004, 2005, something like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so in that time they've had 15. Top 25 finishes, which is pretty good, and they'll tell you. During that time you would hear stats like yeah, gundy is the winningest coach in college football today. During that time it was true, but part of that has to do with his tenure. If you look at OU, ou has had 17 top 25 finishes for the season versus OSU's 18. And you dig into that a little bit further and you look at where they finished.
Speaker 1:Not only did OU finish in the top 25 more times than OSU did, they also finished higher in those rankings on average. So I just averaged it out and this is AP and I came up with they had an average ranking of those 17 top 25 finishes of 7.5, 7.5, you know. So they were, they were in the top 10 for sure. And I looked at the same thing for osu and they and they didn't have as many finishes. So this is of a smaller population, but they, they had basically 13, they finished 13 basically, which still, you know, isn't that? I mean, a lot of schools would love to have an average top 25 finish of 13, right? But I'm not talking about average, I'm talking about a school and a student body that wants to win, you know and what and comparing it to the other notable program in the state of Oklahoma.
Speaker 1:And so if you add in a zero or more than top 25 finishes to kind of match OU's 17, you have to pull in seasons where OSU finished maybe at number 35 or number 40. Their average ranking would probably go up to about you know, 16 or 17. So so ou's average finish in the top 25, I'm going to say we'll just say it's 50 is 50, better it's twice as good as osu's finish.
Speaker 1:Having said that, so that that's my. That was just kind of like well, I looked at on my spreadsheet real quick. But having said that, I that was just kind of like well, I looked at it on my spreadsheet real quick. But having said that, I was writing down some other stuff. Let's see.
Speaker 4:So you're looking through that, go ahead.
Speaker 1:Okay. So during the Gundy era, even though OU has had such great programs and they've done such great things, I feel like you're building a case here, potentially.
Speaker 1:OSU has had one coach, coach Gundy. Ou has had three coaches during that time, even though they've consistently put up much better numbers than OSU. It started out with Stoops and then Lincoln Riley and now Brent Bennebould, who I don't know a whole lot about, but I do know that Oklahoma still has a pretty good, pretty strong program. So I've gone through three coaches in the time that Oklahoma State has just kind of stuck with Mike Gundy, and over the years I just kind of feel like you know, there's a story, there's something you want to say before I go on, go ahead.
Speaker 4:So, yeah, it seems like there's this philosophy of dance with the one that brung you Kind of, and they've stuck with Gandhi for all these years, you know, and there's something to be said for loyalty, if it's deserved, if it's earned Respect. And he has a lot of respect for Gandhi, no doubt about it.
Speaker 4:But there's this big controversy that's brewing and has been brewing. The storm clouds have been getting darker late and then after this last weekend, it's like everybody's like okay, it's time to call it and there's a big controversy. Fans, there's people who want him to stay, people who want him to go um, and they're just really kind of irritated. Right now, not kind of, they are irritated I gotta say I was irritated.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was laying in bed. I went to bed because, you know, um, I stayed up a little bit after the game, just kind of like thinking about the game, and janet went to bed before I do. She turned out the lights. I went in there, I got in bed and turn off the light. We're both laying in bed, you know, just kind of staring at the ceiling. And then I started.
Speaker 1:I started talking about the osu game, like I'm like you know it's, it's like, it's like and this is in the dark. You know she's trying to go to sleep. Yeah, I said I just started. I said you know this is and this is in the dark. You know she's trying to go to sleep. Yeah, I just started. I said you know, this is like Janet's got a she drives a 4Runner right now and really liked that car.
Speaker 1:I said it's like taking your 4Runner and you start throwing money at it because you're going to enter your 4Runner in the Indianapolis 500 race, forerunner in the the indianapolis 500 race, and you're going to put more money into that forerunner than anybody puts into other these fancy race cars and you're going to go out there and try to win this race in your souped up forerunner, and it doesn't matter how much money you pour into it, it doesn't matter how much time, what kind of tricky engine engineering you do, it doesn't matter. You're never going to win that race in a forerunner ever, and I kind of feel like that's where we are with gundy you know, there's a yeah, I mean he and and it and.
Speaker 1:So what I? What I'm not doing as an osu fan and a fan of Mike Gundy, is running Mike Gundy down. I think everybody should be very appreciative of what he did for the program but, just like the guy who wrote the book, what got you here is not going to get you there Right. You know the, the failure to adapt. You know, uh, somebody you know has a good run. They build a program to a certain point, but can they take it to that next step? And I think that the answer for gundy is no, he can't. No, he can't. And so the longer he he stays there, you know, the more damage he's doing to the program. Last year is a good example. The oregon game is a great example. Like they haven't been beat that bad since Oklahoma became a state 1907, something like that, yeah 118 years ago.
Speaker 1:Yeah, think about that.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's not something you want on your resume.
Speaker 1:no, and so if you're a top flight talent, whether coming out of high school or somebody looking to move from one college to another, how many of those people are going to want to go to Oklahoma?
Speaker 4:State. There's something to be said for knowing when to step aside, knowing when to bow out 100%, knowing when to bow out um 100, knowing when to go out. And hopefully, everybody wants to go out on top, but unfortunately, some people think that the top is still yet to come. And you know, you think of jerry seinfeld. His tv show was going super great, super great. And then he just says you know what? This, we're done, I want to go out on top. We have the best ratings, we have everything. Why wait for this? Why wait for the wheels to fall off and then go? Well, yeah, I guess we need to go.
Speaker 4:So it's unfortunate though that sometimes people and I'm not saying he should leave, he can do whatever he wants. I it's kind of late. Now I'm saying he should leave.
Speaker 1:I've been saying that yeah and it reminds me that, yes, I agree with what you're saying, and and that reminds me of the story of kodak. I was thinking about kodak earlier you know kodak.
Speaker 4:You just start talking about kodak in bed too. I did not. You know, I thought about kodak this morning, but um Kodak.
Speaker 1:You just start talking about Kodak in bed too. I did not. No, I thought about Kodak this morning, but Kodak and just in general companies that kind of held on with a leadership team for too long. You know Kodak dominated the camera and mostly the film media industry. You know, in the day and they were on top. I mean people. You know people now, gen xers. They have no memory of going to the store and you know how they stack cigarettes in those those things today, when they've got all these cigarettes stacked up and they'll go and they'll reach and grab a pack of cigarettes.
Speaker 1:Here you go. That's how they used to film and camera. You'd have your 400 ASA, you had your 200, all your different ones. You know 35 millimeter, kodak, fuji made it for all stuff. You used to see that all the time, you know back in the day, but I think it was. You know, in the mid seventies Kodak actually invented, invented the digital camera. But they were kind of going after their cash cow and they kept kind of squeezing it and trying to get more money and and they just failed to adapt to their own technology, you know. And then other people came along and you know digital photography was not that great in the beginning. But nothing ever is in the beginning. You develop it over time and you've got to see People can sell cameras without the need for film. What's that going to do to our business, which is primarily around producing film?
Speaker 4:They were all around the film and then all of a sudden you get the technology that requires no film.
Speaker 1:Requires no film. So they did this, and they wound up with this huge competitive disadvantage, one they could not catch up from. They couldn't do it and they tried, but they couldn't do it, and so I think it was like in 2012 or something right, when the Cowboys just switched coaches Kodak went bankrupt. Kodak went bankrupt, you know, and who's talking about Kodak anymore Besides us talking about examples of companies with leadership, in this case, company? You know, they just failed to adapt, they failed to innovate, they failed to adapt, and what made Kodak so great is not what's going to make Kodak great into the future, unless, what defines you as great is the ability to innovate and change as necessary, rather than to face the pain that change portends. You know what it implies.
Speaker 4:So do you think that the culture and the development of what Gundy brought to Oklahoma State in the last 22 decades sounds like you're thinking that it's not going to carry the program into the future? What he did over the last two decades, which was great, which was good, which was, you know, all the wins and all that, Is that still working for the program today?
Speaker 1:Sounds like you're going to say no, Clearly not. I mean no, absolutely not it's just not.
Speaker 1:And when you think about what's going to happen to future recruiting classes again, who's going to want to go play football for OSU when they have a season like last season and they're posting worst losses in school history? Who's going to want to play there when they can go to Alabama or Oregon or Michigan, texas you can look at Texas the number of head coaches that Texas has had in that time. These are programs that are dedicated to winning. They're not dedicated to denial.
Speaker 4:Or to a person.
Speaker 1:To a person, but in the end, to me that's denial. But yes, I think there's a cult of personality around Mike Gundy, that OSU, the athletic director, the president, the board of regents and the boosters have got to get over. And they've got to get over this psychological barrier they're hitting up against, which is essentially denial. They're delaying the discomfort of change to stick with what they've got and try to reinvest in the forerunner.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it almost seems like he's uh, uh, it's all about you. Know, it's not about you as a leader, it's not about you, it's about the team, it's about the program, but it seems as though, uh, they're making it and he's making it about him, which is dangerous.
Speaker 1:It is becoming about him, and not only is Gundy making it about him and kind of being, you know, at this point, selfish in that way. You know, the athletic director, all those people that I just mentioned, the president, they don't want to do it either, and so they. They're more responsive to the pain of change and and and maybe the criticism they might get for something, because people can come back with stats and say, oh, he's been the best coach in osu history, he's done all these amazing things and yes, but it's what he's done, it's what got you here, going to get you there, and I think what the game against oregon proved. For those of us who have been saying for a while, it's time for gundy to step aside and let somebody else take the program. I heard during the game that that the whole coaching staff of osu, that they've had a turnover of the, of all the coaches in the coaching staff except for Gundy, right.
Speaker 1:So they got a brand new slate of guys and they go out onto the field against Oregon and they got beat in every way. Oregon's players were just better they're they're bigger, faster, stronger, they're more disciplined. And I was I was looking at the, watching the game. Just like the kind of mistakes osu was making had nothing to do with whether or not they were bigger, faster, stronger the osu players. They were undisciplined, they were poorly coached. They were. They kept jumping off sides, false starts. You know these kind of things and and you know which related to jv team yeah, it was just like.
Speaker 1:You know you're not ready to play. You're not ready to play at this level like against any team really. I mean, if you're making those kind of mistakes, you know you might be able to disguise it. If you really go out and you play sister mary's church of the blind, you can go out and you can make those kind of mistakes and still win, feel good about yourself. But you gotta look back and say, okay, how's this going to work when I find somebody who's really a good team? How's it going to work if I'm constantly jumping off sides?
Speaker 4:I heard gundy talking about his brand new coaching staff. Came up with these complicated plays yeah, and yeah, and then the, the students, the students, the players are young enough to not be able to execute such complicated you know.
Speaker 1:So the buck stops with the other coaches? Is that what he's saying?
Speaker 4:Well, he was bringing that up. It starts with him, but yeah, so I don't want to hear anything about the other coaches.
Speaker 1:I don't want to hear anything about the other coaches from Gundy. I want Gundy. I want to hear Gundy get up coaches. I don't want to hear anything about the other coaches from Gundy. I want Gundy. I want to hear Gundy get up in there to say we, yeah, not they, we, we or I. I just didn't do what I had to do to get my team ready, and if he can't say that, then he's not functioning as a head coach.
Speaker 4:So I'm going to read you something that Mike Gundy he says. Mike Gundy is Oklahoma State football period. As quarterback he set records in the Barry Sanders era. As coach he stacked 160 wins, 19 straight bowls, a Big 12 title, two Fiesta Bowls, multiple top 10 finishes and sent dudes to the NFL year after year. He's the winningest coach in OSU history and the most important name this program has ever had. Without him, you'd have nothing to brag about, nothing to watch, nothing to cry about.
Speaker 4:Let's be clear before Gundy, osu football was a damn afterthought. He made us nationally respected. He gave still water relevance. He gave you 19 years of bowl games, stability and consistency. He gave you games worth bragging about, rivalries worth caring about and seasons you'll never forget. And what do the fans do in return? Trash him online. Like you know football, you don't. You watch three hours on Saturday and think you've got it all figured out. You don't see the work, the loyalty, the recruiting, the development, the grind that keeps OSU relevant year after year. So when you bash Mike Gundy, remember this. He's in the record books forever. His legacy is carved in stone. He made Oklahoma State football you. You're just in the replies, crying like children. Hate, all you want. It doesn't change the truth. Gundy. The Gundy name built this program. The Gundy name is forever tied to OSU football. So take your little hot, takes, fold them up real nice and shove them up your ass.
Speaker 1:So I think that's pretty well written by his son. But the thing and what I'm not doing is, like I said, I'm not running Mike Gundy down Right. I appreciate what Mike Gundy has done for the program, so you know if there I know there are people out there who take pot shots. Right.
Speaker 1:You know at Mike Gundy and say you know untoward things and I'm not among them. You know I give Mike Gundy his props and I appreciate what he's done for the program. I guess the thing that I disagree with the strongest is to say that Mike Gundy is OSU football and I think that's exactly the mentality that kind of feeds into this problem of denial, that says therefore we must stick with Mike Gundy no matter what. My question would be okay so when Mike Gundy's 100 years old what? What's too old, you know when? Would his son say you know this time and not the age like I think gundy's probably 60, 61, 62 years old, somewhere right in there right around our ages yeah.
Speaker 1:So I don't think that's too old to coach. So I'm not even saying age is is the primary factor here, right? Because there's lots of coaches who have coached you know beyond that age and done so very successfully. So I'm not saying that it's age, I'm just saying what factors would come together, you know, to cause Mike Gundy's son to say it's time for him to move on. Is there anything? Or must we stick with Gundy until Gundy is 100 years old?
Speaker 4:Right, just run him into the ground.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I think if I were Gundy's son, I would probably write an article like that. And bravo to him for supporting his dad. I think that's great, but I do think also that he's got a little bit of a conflict of interest being like Gundy's son. But I think he did a great job of writing an article for his dad. I really respect that.
Speaker 4:I don't think it's a conflict of interest. I think that's a good son would do something like that for their dad to defend in this time when there's a huge controversy.
Speaker 1:I'm saying that because he is his son. There is a conflict of interest. He's not exactly objective.
Speaker 1:We can agree on that, right, yeah, right. So I think, yeah, I don't have any issue and I wouldn't criticize his son. I'm not trying to be unfair in my criticism of Gundy. I have a custom. I'm not giving him unfair criticism, I'm just but.
Speaker 1:But I think you know in that position you're paid lots of money to to produce results and he's no longer producing those results and at this point he's doing more harm to the program than good.
Speaker 1:And I think I think the best way for levels, you know, I think the best way for OSU to move forward is just to bring in a new head coach that has promised to rebuild a great program that's had.
Speaker 1:I don't know if there's any program that's had more money poured into it than osu and it's right up there at the top. Probably five programs have had money poured into it, right, t boone, pickens, boom pickens and others. Um, but I think it's time for them to bring in a new head coach. I think it would be great if great, if Gundy would just resign and talk about and so everybody could celebrate what a great job that he's done, you know, and kind of usher in a new era, of a new coach that gives new hope to new recruits, top recruits, that want to come in and get kind of get back in on the ground floor of a great program that Gundy built and kind of get back in on the ground floor of a great program that Gundy built and move forward under a new coach that has fresh perspective, new energy, new innovation, new relationships with other coaches that he can bring in as part of his crew and create a better future for Oklahoma State football.
Speaker 4:That's what I think and create a better future for Oklahoma State football. That's what I think. It takes a lot of humility for a leader to step aside and to actually want the next person to do even better than what they did and to give them that opportunity, instead of running it until the wheels fall off and then it's kind of ugly, it's kind of messy. It's kind of messy, it's kind of embarrassing and you become not dishonored, but you know, if you stayed too long, then it's not dishonored, but I can't think of the word I'm trying to come up with. But anyway, what do you think? What can a coach at Oklahoma State go for? An up-and-coming name or another proven veteran?
Speaker 1:I think you have to go with a proven veteran. It can be somebody who's up-and-coming, as long as they produce really good results. But I would say it's somebody who's got to inspire confidence in the next recruiting class, you know, which is underway, I'm sure you know. So if they have, you know, promise of a new coach, he's going to turn the program around. They can more quickly, you know, rebuild the, the, the program.
Speaker 1:But my bet, my basic thesis, is this I just wrote this down that gundy's past achievement achievements definitely elevated the program and everybody should be thankful for that. But the current trajectory is right now is, you know, threatens osu football history, future, I'm sorry, future, and it will kind of like put a, you know, kind of a black mark on gundy's name that he didn't go out on top. He didn't go out, you know, come at the right time and turn over the reins. So you know, I would say that I would love it if, gundy, you just decided to retire again so that he could be recognized for what he's done for OSU football and move on while he still has most of his record, that is, you know, unblemished. Get out at a good time where he's not having a detrimental impact that I'm quite certain he does not want to have on the future of OSU football.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Go out on his terms, yes, and turn over the reins you know to somebody else with with new, fresh energy perspective innovation, like I said earlier, yeah, and somebody who's going to inspire confidence, you know, in the, in the guys that are currently there in the next recruiting class.
Speaker 1:I think OSU can kind of climb back on top on top being like a relative thing, get back to kind of that consistent win but have some top 10 finishes and, for Pete's sake, put a team together that can beat OU and respect oh you, no, no shade on oh you.
Speaker 1:I gotta say you know they, you know it's irritating, but, just in fairness, oh, you're just better and and, oh you, oh you is a good model because, oh, you has made the changes they need to, they need to make to stay on top. And none of these guys had, you know, seven year, you know, losing histories or whatever. No, they, they, they, uh, by whatever mechanism it happened, they got new coaches that did new things for the team and kept them fresh and on top and they're still there.
Speaker 4:Well, I think that about sums it up. I think we know where you sit on the. Should I stay or should I go now? Should he stay or should I go now? Should he stay or should he go? I'm with you. I think he should probably graciously step aside and make way for a new, for some fresh blood, and in doing that, he actually is helping the future program in a different way. Yes, very much so. He's doing it in a very influential way.
Speaker 1:That is such a great point. Him doing this the right way can do more to propel the program going forward, I think, than just about any other move he could make. That is a solid point.
Speaker 4:Thank you, oh man, move, he could make that is a solid point. Thank you, oh man. Well, I'm uh, that was a good uh discussion, good conversation, uh. For those of you listening out there, you know what are your thoughts. Do you think he should stay? Should he go?
Speaker 4:you know, and what I really appreciate about this conversation was and you don't get this a lot anymore. People are either on one side or the other and there's a lot of venom and to show respect for the person in question, and I think you and I both want Gundy's best and we have Gundy's best interest at heart, Don't want to see anything happen. Would like to see some good things happen.
Speaker 4:It might just be in a different way than you know, whatever, maybe even than what he's thinking about, but there there's a good outcome for this and I think we both realize that, and that's I wish more people had this kind of discourse rather than haters going to hate and blah, blah, blah. I understand passion and drive and your heat, but if you can temper that with a good conversation and flesh out what, what could happen and what needs to work, that everyone wins on that.
Speaker 1:So yeah, and Gundy, you know he can preserve his legacy, his incredible legacy, by going out on his terms and passing the torch and wishing the program the best success. This new guy has my endorsement. He's what the program needs going forward so he can go out with that kind of grace and kind of like preserving his legacy in that way and handing it off to somebody else and doing all that. It's just putting the cherry on top and he still goes out on top and he preserves the legacy, yep.
Speaker 4:Well said, well, on that note, I think I might go have some lunch, me too, it's 11.20 almost. My time. Might eat about 12 eggs or something I don't know. I'm starving, all right, well, for sweet Ben Townsend. This is Scott. Thanks for listening to the Scott Townsend Show. If you have any questions, comments, concerns, you can send them to scott at scotttownsendinfo. Have a great day, everything's going to be all right and we'll talk to you later.
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