Reading Rituals, Great Books, And Grit

In this third annual Christmas tradition, I welcome Eric back to the show for a wide-ranging conversation about books, reading, and the lifelong pursuit of understanding. We talk about his ambitious “great books” journey—now stretching toward what may become a 40-year project—covering everything from Greek tragedies and Plato’s dialogues to Confucius, Viktor Frankl, and modern classics.

We dig into Eric’s disciplined reading habits, his yearly practice of starting January and February by reading the Bible (including his experience with the King James Version this year), and how he structures his reading year to stay motivated without burning out. We also explore big ideas like Plato’s theory of forms, the difference between philosophers and sophists, how ancient texts continue to shape modern thinking, and how AI can be used responsibly to deepen understanding—after you’ve done the hard work of reading.

Eric shares the books that stood out most to him this year, including The Picture of Dorian Gray, Man’s Search for Meaning, The Analects of Confucius, and The Idea Machine, along with the powerful concept of finding a “single thread” that ties together everything you read. We close with practical, encouraging advice for anyone who wants to read more: start with what you love, and let curiosity do the rest.

This is a thoughtful, inspiring conversation for readers, thinkers, and anyone looking to build a richer reading life—perfect for closing out the year and setting the tone for the next one.

Click here to see Erik's list of books read in 2025 https://books.booksoftitans.com/2025-reading-list/

Chapters

• 0:00 Annual Christmas Check-In
• 4:39 Building A Daily Reading Habit
• 6:49 The Great Books Plan
• 9:19 Plato, Forms, And Tough Dialogues
• 17:19 Using AI As A Study Aid
• 21:29 Bible Read-Through And KJV Insights
• 28:32 Sophists Versus Philosophers
• 32:52 Short Great Books And Dorian Gray
• 37:12 Frankl, Suffering, And Meaning
• 41:22 Three Standout Reads Of The Year
• 48:52 Motivation, Breaks, And Momentum
• 54:02 Theo Golden’s Rise And Impact

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 1:02

Welcome to the Scott Townsend Show, brought to you by Dito Man Productions.

SPEAKER_03: 1:12

Scott.

unknown: 1:13

What's going on, Eric?

SPEAKER_03: 1:15

How you doing?

SPEAKER_02: 1:16

I'm doing good and you?

SPEAKER_03: 1:18

Yeah, doing well. Doing well. The annual, the annual Christmas call.

SPEAKER_02: 1:28

Third annual. Third annual, yeah. Going on for.

SPEAKER_03: 1:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:34

How's your podcast doing?

SPEAKER_03: 1:36

Pretty good. I just keep at it. Um yeah, nothing like nothing major. Just kind of keep at it. It's hard hard to know like who listens if if people listen, all that kind of stuff. And um but yeah, I'll get a comment every now and then, but um yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 2:00

How long have you been doing it?

SPEAKER_03: 2:02

Uh since 2017, I think, or 2018. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 2:08

That's good. Nice run.

SPEAKER_03: 2:10

So yeah. Yeah, I'm up to like 270 books I've covered. It's probably 300 episodes just with um, because I'll do episodes about the reading life or that kind of thing. Um but I know it's uh two uh because I just did the 271st book that I've covered. So yeah, it's the it's the way I remember books the best.

SPEAKER_02: 2:35

So that's cool. Well, thanks for like I said, coming back for the but this is the third year, I guess. Every year I have Eric on, and we talk about his reading journey. Uh he's probably one of the more serious readers I've ever met or heard about. And I like I love to read too. So it was it's it's a good match, it's a good uh good friendship. And so every year I have Eric back and we talk about the books he's read for that year, which brings us to this year. And uh but first off, what'd you have for breakfast this morning?

SPEAKER_03: 3:12

Uh well I consume vast quantities of coffee, so I made that first. Uh I I get up, brew the coffee and and read. That's usually the the time I get most of my reading done. And then uh I had eggs and I make them with a bunch of uh veggies in it, and then a peanut butter and honey sandwich. Oh, wow. It's kind of my go-to.

SPEAKER_02: 3:33

So I had eggs and spinach this morning. Yeah, that little nice stuff. Yeah. You're uh what time do you when do you start reading? I mean, uh is there what what kind of habit are you into to read? Is there a certain time of day? It sounds like there is. Um, and for how long, you know.

SPEAKER_03: 3:54

Uh yeah, I I try to wake up uh at five. Sometimes it's a little earlier because my uh my daughters get up at six for school, so then it's kind of mad chaos. So um I try to get like an hour in. Sometimes it'll be less. And uh, but yeah, that that time in the morning is when I get the majority of the reading done. And then I just try to get to bed at a good time um so that I can wake up early like that. And then I always uh 10 at the latest. I try I try like between nine and 10. Um and then I just carry a book with me all the time. It's it's one of my my rules. And so I just, you know, there'll be five minutes here of of reading, 10 minutes here, 15 minutes here. Um, so just kind of all adds up. But yeah, that that morning time is is when I get the majority of it, of it done.

SPEAKER_02: 4:50

You've got some heavy reading this last, or you have done some heavy reading this last year as far as heavy as in theme and and uh and the gravity of the subject. Um how's that been going?

SPEAKER_03: 5:06

It's been good. It's it's funny. I've noticed uh when I shift genre that it takes me a while. So I I'm reading through the immortal books right now. I've made a list of 200 different authors, and my plan is just to read through them in chronological order. So uh I'm I'm I made the shift from the Greek tragedies to Greek philosophy this year. So I started reading Plato. And for the the initial dialogues that I started with for Plato, I had to read them three or four times each just to kind of get in that mindset. Same thing happened when I started with the Greek tragedies. It just took me like three or four readings of the first ones just to really understand what was going on. Like, how is this different from the Greek epics? Because I just kind of come from Homer, and so there's differences. And yeah, it just takes my my brain a little time to get situated. Um, but I've I've been enjoying the the dialogues by Plato. I decided to just read all of them. Um, I got a book with the complete works. I was just gonna read like six of them, and then I thought, I, you know, maybe I just read all of them. And so I'm I'm going, I'm in the midst of that right now.

SPEAKER_02: 6:16

Wow. So how does uh I was gonna ask you, how do you choose what uh goes on your reading list? But it sounds like the reading list chose itself because you're doing it in chronological order.

SPEAKER_03: 6:28

Yeah. Um it uh at first when I was creating the list, so I call I call it the the great books when I started off. And so I would just in and there's a ton of different great books lists out there. Um and so I just started looking at all these different lists, and you you start to see the same books on on the majority of those. And so I focused on those and then just kind of also added books I really wanted to read on there that that would be part of the great books canon, but um might not be on all of them. So I would kind of select the ones like I really want to read these, even though they're not on like they're not like Homer where it's on every single list. Um and then uh the as a third piece of that, I I started sending it to people I really respected who were knowledgeable about the great books and and and and also people who um might have an expertise in an area that I I wanted to make sure was within the great books, and just said, hey, what am I missing here? Um so I'm kind of in a uh transition point with that, uh, or or a questioning point in that. Um I had I had a uh earlier this year, a friend was in from the UK and I had her record a new intro to my podcast. And she says, uh, you can follow Eric uh for the next 15 years as he as he reads through the great, the great or the immortal books. And um, but she said it in such a way that it's it's hard to to tell if she said 15 or 50. And I kind of like that because that's my question at the moment. So I started reading Plato, and I realized that I was I was running into some problems because he kept referencing philosophers who were before him. And I had not read those philosophers, but I knew I needed to to properly understand Plato. So I bought like three books that were about the pre-Socratics and the sophists, who just basically the philosophers before Socrates and Plato. And I was thinking in my head, if I keep doing this for the rest of the project, this will take me 40 years as opposed to 15. And so, and I'm 45 years old. So it's basically this either becomes a lifelong project till I die, or this the I I try to finish it in 15 years, sticking very closely to the list. And I'm leaning more towards the 40-year plan at the moment. And what that allows me to do is um is read all of Plato instead of just a few dialogues. It also allows me to realize, hey, I don't know what Plato's talking about here, and do the do the reading to find out who he was referring to, the the philosophers before that. Yeah. And so I'm just kind of looking ahead in this like there's there's certain authors on this list. I want to read all of their works. And so that may take half a year or a year, but um, yeah, I'm really like at this point leaning towards that. Uh, but as you know from previous episodes, I I divide my breeding year into where I've got some time to read non-immortal book stuff just to maybe it's a newer book or or an author, I want to read their works or something like that. So I I I keep it flexible in in that sense to where it's not just 40 years of of great books going forward. Yeah. Um, so that's that's kind of where I'm at right now.

SPEAKER_02: 9:51

You're you start each year uh reading the Bible in January and February. Is it the same Bible every year, or do you do a different version like NIV, King James?

SPEAKER_03: 10:05

Uh yeah, I I do a different version every year. And so this year I did the King James version. That was the first time I'd ever read the King James. Um, and I I really liked it. And and just you know, for for readers out there, it's it's an important one to read just because you're gonna see you're gonna see that reference in so much of what you read. And it's not like they're gonna sit there and say, hey, this is from the King James Bible. Uh it's they're just gonna quote it. And and uh oftentimes they won't put quotations around it or anything. I mean, like you you read um uh Cormac McCarthy, and he's he's just quoting the King James all over the place. And you know, he's not telling you, hey, this is the King James. So uh it's just important to have that that version in your head. So I I really enjoyed the King James version that I did this year, but yeah, next year I've got a different version I'm I'm starting off with. And um so uh but but I love that. I love I just take January and February every year. It's the only thing I read. I start page one and I go all the way to the end of Revelation. Um it's been really good.

SPEAKER_02: 11:10

So you've done this for uh several years now, more than several years.

SPEAKER_03: 11:14

Yeah, I think this is my fourth the yeah, my fourth time doing it this year.

SPEAKER_02: 11:19

And uh what's your big takeaway? Each year, do you have the something do you get something different every year after going through the Bible like to this year? What did you what surprised you or what stood out to you, or did you just walk away with the same thing you got last year?

SPEAKER_03: 11:37

Yeah, no, it's different every year, and and it's it's really cool because it uh a lot of times it'll be based on what I've been reading um for for this project. And so the Bible informs the books I read, but the books I read inform how I interact with the Bible too. And so it's this, it's just kind of this you know loop every year. And so the first year I did it, um, the thing that really stuck out was the curse. And the curse shows up on like page three of the Bible and it gets resolved on the second or on the on the final page of the Bible. And but there's stuff about the curse throughout the Bible, and so uh it it just struck me on page three because it was different from how I had always thought the curse was. And so I just it like my mind just went to that. I think the second year uh I I was really interested in the tribes of Israel, the 12 tribes of Israel. But that again was kind of I I had just I recently read a book about that, so it was kind of forefront. Um, there wasn't necessarily a thing like that that stuck out this year, um, just more of like the King James version and um kind of kind of being enamored, I guess, with with the language and and um just really enjoying that that Bible. Um but yeah, it it is kind of interesting. Just each year, like something, and it usually starts like towards the beginning of the Bible where something piques my interest, and then I just kind of followed that thread throughout the the rest of the the Bible, and and it becomes really uh interesting each each time.

SPEAKER_02: 13:12

It's been a while since I've read the Bible. I need to pick it up again and go through it. I've read it several times through uh, but I I I think that sounds like a good habit to once a year check in and see what's going on.

SPEAKER_03: 13:28

Yeah, because yeah, I know I like starting with it too, just to kind of kick off the the year with it.

SPEAKER_02: 13:33

All right, get your year started off right. Plato, man. Tell me about Plato. Um that's I don't know anything about Plato. I I just know it sounds uh philosophical and uh it's gonna take you how long to read all of his works, would you say?

SPEAKER_03: 13:53

Uh he's got like um 30 something dialogues, and I've read nine of them so far. So I'll I'll um I'll get back into those after I start the year with the Bible in 2026. So uh in March 2026, I'll get back. Actually, I'm gonna kind of finish reading those pre-Plato philosophers and then and then get back into Plato. Um, it's been really interesting so far. The the um the version I'm I'm doing, it's the complete works that's edited by John M. Cooper. And so it's this huge volume that just has everything. And that's really why I I thought, hey, I why don't I just read all of these? Uh, because I picked it up and it was about the same size as a Bible. And so I thought, well, I I start each year with a Bible. This is not that much bigger. Um, why don't I just go through all of them? And so I'm going in the order that John M. Cooper uh puts them in in that book. But what he does is he starts off with four dialogues that are about Socrates and specifically the death of Socrates. And so those almost read more of like a drama. Uh, you're getting philosophy in there, but it but you can see kind of a clear line from the Greek tragedies to these Greek dialogues. Um, they're not just like statements of philosophy that you just stop and think about. It's like it's it's within a story. And and and specifically with um with these, like Socrates is about to get condemned to death by his peers. And so you're you're seeing all these different aspects of that. How does it how does he die? Does he die like a coward? Does he die honorably? Um, so those are kind of the first dialogues and really get you not time-wise, but they're uh in the the version I'm going through there there first. And it really just kind of gets you in the mindset of like how a dialogue is set up. And then um, yeah, the other one, they just they deal with so many different uh ideas, but they've been they've been really interesting. There's some that I've had a lot of trouble with. Um, one in particular, the Sophist. I I read it three or four times. I was asking people about it, um, but but it really it was a really important thing that I got out of it. And then there's another one, the last one that that I read is called Parmenides. And Parmenides was a Greek philosopher before Socrates and Plato. And I just like I don't understand that one. I mean, it's just it's so far over my head. Uh I but I I did the best I could with it. Um, I may try to dig in deeper because I'm going back to in reading some of what Parmenides said. Uh so maybe that'll help when I when I go back to Plato. But um yeah, there's some that's like pretty easy to understand. There's some that are like, oh my gosh, what the heck is going on here? But like I took one philosophy course in college and it and it just all like almost all of it went way over my head. So I I just like I've always been scared of philosophy. And but this time around, I I really want to try to understand it. And so I am I'm reading them multiple times. I I'm taking notes, like I'm covering them on the podcast to make sure I can communicate what I learned from them. Um but yeah, they've been they've been really amazing and and um a lot more approachable than I thought they would be going into them.

SPEAKER_02: 17:10

Do you use any of the uh large language models, the AI, to help understand what you've just read or to to get some insight as into what you're reading?

SPEAKER_03: 17:24

Um I will afterwards and I'll do it in kind of a strange way. I'll go in and uh so like in and I I try to read the actual dialogue multiple times before I do this, uh, but then I'll go into a uh AI model and I'll say, what is this dialogue about, you know, Plato's dialogue of uh the sophist? What is the sophist about? And explain it to me like a stupid three-year-old. And then it comes back, you know, like as so I'm I'm reading it like at like I'm a stupid three-year-old, which is about my brain level with some of these uh dialogues. And then and then I'll bump it up to okay, now I'm a stupid eight-year-old, now I'm a stupid 13-year-old, now I'm a stupid 18-year-old. And I'll just kind of go that way as opposed to like just a uh straight up what is the sophist about. Um, I I kind of do levels of it of like treat me like a stupid three-year-old first, and then and then let's just kind of go down the line. And and that that has been helpful. Um, but yeah, I I never I never go to uh AI before I've read the work. I don't like I don't want that in my head. Uh I want to try to understand it from the work itself. Yeah, I I think that sofist one, um, and again, I really battled with that one. I I had trouble um understanding it, but um I I really spent a lot of time with it. And and Plato has this idea of the forms. So there's these forms that exist in heaven, and so there would be a form of beauty, and then we we see glimpses or particulars of that on earth. So uh a beautiful sunset or uh a beautiful painting, but there there's this this form of beauty in which that's it's kind of a a shadow or uh echo of uh on on earth. And in the sophist, um what he's trying to do is to to define the sophist and and and to distinguish the sophist from the philosopher. And the sophists were known for being able to train people how to win an argument, whether they were telling the truth or not. And the philosopher was really trying to just stick with the the truth and not not delve into to areas that they shouldn't be in with lying and and manipulation and and uh you know persuading persuading through deceit. Uh they didn't want to do that. So, but in order to define the sophist, you had to be able to say that um that they were that they were lying, um, but in relation to the forms. And so what I got out of the sophist was that uh the the forms are true, and there's not a form for a lie. So if someone lies, it's it's a deviation from the form. Uh there's not like a form of a lie. So it's kind of like uh people will talk about evil is is a is a deviation from good, um, as opposed to like evil being something itself. Like evil always has to pull from the good. You can't just, it's just it's not just like this evil thing out there. Like it's got it's gotta be a derivation or uh a corruption of of what's good. And in a very similar form, uh form, uh you can't there can't like if you lie, there's not something up in heaven that is a form of that lie. You have to be doing something. Other than the the form of that of beauty. Like um yeah, it it hard hard to explain, but it just kind of like it really helped um understand in you know, philosophers even right after Plato got rid of the idea of forms, but just even like as a mental model of like there there are things outside of us that that give us information on on different things that we experience here on Earth, but you cannot have a deceitful form of that thing.

SPEAKER_02: 22:08

So the the beauty, let's say for example, the beautiful form, uh for lack of a better phrase, is the definition of that type of form. Uh and to to not be beautiful, to be ugly, to be whatever, is um i it's just taking the beautiful form and yeah, you like you said, corrupt it. Then you got but but that it never starts out it starts out pure and holy and and great, and then someone comes along and especially in the on the uh if if if there's deceit or or lies involved. So you don't start with a lie, you start with the truth, and then the lies kind of spin out from the truth. Yeah. What is a sophist?

SPEAKER_03: 23:05

Um they they were they were people who would try they they were known for verbal. So uh philosophers would be known more as uh writing. Um sophists were known more for verbal, but they but they were they're they're kind of uh criticized a lot in in Greek literature. So like in the in the tragedies, you'll start seeing sophists being mentioned, but in a negative way, because they would teach they they would they would actually corrupt the youth by teaching them how to win an argument through deceit. Whereas philosophers were trying to win arguments through truth and and for truth to be the highest standard. Um, sophists would use any means necessary to win an argument. So, you know, you're you're looking at a democracy at this time to where uh persuasion is very important. Like you need to persuade a body of people to take on what you think should happen in the society, or for example, you need to persuade them to do it. If you're persuading with truth, that's one thing. But if you're just kind of using any means necessary, and and that's what the sophists would do is is um is train people for a cost. Uh, and philosophers were kind of known to to do things without a cost, but they would train people. So you'd get rich people sending their kids to sophists to learn how to argue. Argue, but also corrupt the system.

SPEAKER_02: 24:38

It's kind of like a debate where you'll have a kid take one side and then have another kid take the other side and practice trying to convince each other of what their their position is.

SPEAKER_03: 24:51

Yeah, but but probably more with like a uh sinister motive. You know, not not to like um get better, but to get your way. And and to be like to be smarter than someone who doesn't have that skill so that you can it's it then becomes about power, like you have more power over them because you can argue any anything, as opposed to like in a debate team, it seems more of like you're you're trying to develop the skill to see how the the other person would think so that you can you can respond to their arguments. Here it it it has the connotation of more of like a sinister uh purpose for it, and the sophists are teaching their students to to do it more on a sinister level.

SPEAKER_02: 25:38

The uh you've read a bunch of other books this year, not necessarily the the great, the great, what do you call them, the great books? Um uh this is one I'd like to read. Uh Pictures of Adorian Gray. Yeah. I mean, how was that?

SPEAKER_03: 25:55

It's great. That was my second time reading it. Um, so what I did this year is I led a reading group at the the bookstore here in town, and it was a monthly reading group, and and I called it the short great books. So I was trying to do was find books that were between two to five hours in in terms of like how long it would take you to read it. So we just did a Christmas Carol uh for December. Um, and so Picture of Dorian Gray was was one of the books on the list, and uh and it was yeah, it was just great discussing it. I I love the concept of the book. It it's basically the guy makes a uh bargain with the the devil, and um his he will remain his his face, his body will remain youthful, and anything that he does will be placed on a portrait of him. So usually it's the opposite. If somebody paints a picture of you, you know, you you stand in your youth from that moment on in the portrait. The idea here was that it would switch. So, and then the the guy just Dorian just lives a life of complete debauchery. And so everything that he's doing is being put onto this portrait and such that like the portrait just becomes so grotesque uh from what this man is doing in his life and that kind of thing. And it but it but just kind of ask that question like, can you do like can can you destroy your soul like that and there not be any physical ramifications or spiritual or mental ramifications? I mean, it's kind of a similar question to what comes up in um crime and punishment by Dostoevsky of the that that man, Rat Raskolnikov, he he asked the question, like, can I kill somebody and get away with it? And he knows that he can get get away with it from the law. Like he he he thinks he's so smart that they can do it. But but the bigger question is like, can I get away with this from my conscience or from being able to look at myself in the mirror? Like, can I kill somebody and there not be any ramifications? And that's that's the exploration in in that book. Uh kind of a similarity in in picture of Dorian Gray of like, can can I live in such a way uh that there is no stain on my soul, my my mental capacity, all that character and all that. Um and it's just a neat way of framing it where you flip things of uh the the person of Dorian Gray doesn't change, but the portrait does.

SPEAKER_02: 28:32

I'm definitely gonna put that on my list. Yeah, it's it's really good. Um one I have read, uh Man's Search for Meaning, Victor Frankel. I mean, everybody everybody knows about Victor Frankel, Man's Search for Meaning. I mean, that's I mean, any book list anywhere usually has that in the top ten. Yeah. Um what are your thoughts on Victor and his book, Man's Search for Meeting?

SPEAKER_03: 29:02

Um, it was interesting rereading it. And that that was another book on the um short grade books reading group. So so I ended up discussing it uh in a in a reading group, which was which was uh delightful. So I first read that, that was the final book on my 2017 reading list for this reading project, and it it immediately became my favorite book. And for for many years, that was my favorite book for this entire project. So it was kind of fun to read it again. Um and I I have other favorite books now that have that have replaced Man's Search for Meaning, but I I still consider it very high. And and if like at the bookstore, if if uh someone comes in, they're like, hey, I've I've got a graduate here, you know, what what's the best book for someone just entering into the the working world and all that, or or even somebody graduating high school and going to college, um, I'll I'll always point to this book just because I think it's such such an important uh uh thing to consider. Um but it's interesting now that like as I've been reading more of the ancient works, I'm seeing a lot of the ideas in Frankel and in Man's Search for Meaning that they're in a lot of these ancient books. And I just hadn't read them before to know that, but um like seeing different ideas that I kind of thought, oh wow, this this is amazing in Man's Search for Meaning. And and they are, then and they're really important ideas. Uh, but I guess kind of seeing that, well, other people have talked about this before. Um, I guess with Man's Search for Meaning, you're in like a very intense four or five years, you know, where he's in concentration camps and that kind of thing. Um, and and I always see like in whether it's books about war or books where people have been through a terrible ordeal, it's almost like you get lessons of life a lot faster and in a compact period of time, that those books end up being some of the best books out there just because the intense suffering that the the person had to go through.

SPEAKER_02: 31:05

Of the books that you read in 2000 this last year, uh which for those listening, uh, which book would you pull off that of the of the books that you've read this year, which book would you pull off the shelf and say, okay, of these, this is the one I think everybody should read. And they're all good books. It's like which which is your favorite child? It's uh but there's one that you you know if if you could leave one book on the on the coffee table from the and they're all good, and we all know they're all good books. Um obviously there's no right or wrong answer here. I was just wondering, you know, what would stick out in your mind.

SPEAKER_03: 31:51

Yeah, let me go through kind of three.

SPEAKER_02: 31:54

Um and while you're looking, while you're looking there, uh there's there is a link in the show notes where you can see all of the books that uh Eric has uh gone through uh for this last year. So yeah, if you're wondering what books we're talking about, uh go down to the show notes and click on the link, uh Books of Titans, uh link, and you'll see all the books listed there. So okay, sorry, go ahead.

SPEAKER_03: 32:22

Yeah, I guess it's kind of a maybe a cheating answer, but uh in spring semester, which is what I call March through June, I read uh I finished up with the Greek tragedies, and then I got into the Greek uh comedies. I didn't really like the comedies as much, but um just the Greek tragedies in general are just phenomenal. Like read through them. I mean, they take like two hours to read through each one, but they're just they're incredible. Uh so as a first book, and again, like I I read a number of Greek tragedies, but I I would have to put the tragedies pretty high up there. Um second book that really stood out this year was The Analex by Confucius. And I I I came into 2025 and I was looking at my list again of the authors that I was going to be reading for the great books, and I realized I had I had skipped over Confucius in the in chronological order. I'd just forgotten. And he he actually uh died right right before the Greek tragedy writers. And so I started off in March after I read through the Bible. I started off with Confucius and kind of put him in and then went back to the Greek tragedies. And I was expecting the analyses are are quite short. Like if you get a book, I mean it might be thick, but like the majority of it is notes or something. The Analects themselves are not that long. So I looked at the Analects and I thought, this will take me three days to read, and then I'll move, I'll get back into the Greek tragedies. But I ended up spending the entire month of March on Confucius. And I read a book about Confucius, I read the Analects twice, and I got something out of the second reading of the Analects that has just it really floored me. And it was this idea that uh one of Confucius's disciples comes up to him and asks, Do you just remember everything that you learn and you read and all that? And this is the disciple asking Confucius. And uh actually, Confucius asks his disciple, Do you think I'm the type of person that just remembers everything? And the disciple says, Yeah, isn't isn't that the case? And Confucius says, No, I tie it all together together into a single thread. And um right when I read that, I knew immediately what my single thread was. And and then I've been talking to people since then about uh this idea. And then uh and I've had a number of people say, Yeah, I know what my single thread is too, but they had never thought about it before. And what was cool is it allowed them to look back at everything they had read previously. It wasn't like a memorization tool that you use from this point forward. It actually allowed people to look back and see like a thread that they've noticed through a number of the books they've read. And in turn, that helped them to remember those books. So for me, my thread is direction. This this idea that small, seemingly insignificant choices that we make on a daily basis are are leading us into a direction in our lives. And so most of these things happen in our head or they happen when we're alone. No one else sees it, but they're setting a very strong direction for our lives. And kind of the idea that, like, if you are, if you come into a situation where you need to, you need to be a hero of sorts, you're not just gonna automatically be a hero if you haven't been making these small decisions that no one else sees along the way. Like you're not, you're not just gonna automatically make the right decision when it when it matters. Um, so I see this in fiction. Fiction's great for this because you see you're you're you're watching a character over a long period of time, usually. And so in authors just know intuitively, like, okay, someone's not just gonna murder somebody or commit adultery. Like, there's going to be a path that you watch in in it's almost like a horror movie. If you're you're you're in your head, you're like, don't go in that room. Like, don't make these choices because they're gonna lead, you know, like we just all all kind of know that. But I see it in biographies, I see it across uh Greek literature because you're you're seeing a character show up in different works, but you're seeing like, oh wow, they made this decision then, and then later on they they did this atrocity or something like that. Um, or on the other hand, like they they they were very heroic in this situation, and you see kind of like how their their life led up to that. Uh so that's my single thread. But I and then I can look back at the books I've read and see, oh yeah, I I saw that in this book. And and um so just in terms of like that being the second book that really stood out to me this year, I would have to say Confucius, just in really for that that one uh idea that that Confucius talks about. The last one I really enjoyed was um The Idea Machine. And this is by a friend of mine, Joel J. Miller. He lives in uh Franklin, Tennessee here, but he wrote a book about the book. So he wrote a book about how books came to us, and in you know, how we when we pick up a book now, the format it's in, uh everything, like how that evolved over time to where we now have this this book format. Um and just, I mean, the history of it is just fascinating. Like, how how did it come to be? Like at one time, all the letters would just be all together. And so reading was actually like trying to figure out where breaks were between the words. There's no punctuation. There's like it, like you had to be very highly trained just to even be able to go through these texts. And then how they figured out, oh, okay, why don't we put a space between the words? Uh, let's put in some punctuation. Um, so just how all that evolved over time, but to where we hold a book in our hand now, and it's like it's the perfect machine for learning or transmitting information.

SPEAKER_02: 38:10

And then what he also does more than just more than just from Gutenberg to now.

SPEAKER_03: 38:15

Yeah, no, he goes back like you know, two thousand years plus. And then the other thing he does is ties all this to our current learning management, learning large language models and AI, and just how even like uh how a library is organized and how you would pull data from a library, how that's the exact way that AI works. Like you put in a prompt, you're trying to get information. What it's doing is going through its library of information to give you a specific response. Um, and so you know, it's just interesting, like the book, and then just even organizing book, like once you get a bunch of books in a one place, how organizing that library is very akin to our AI models of today.

SPEAKER_02: 38:57

That's I'd like to read that one too.

SPEAKER_03: 39:00

What's the author's name again? Joel J. Miller, and the book is the uh the idea machine.

SPEAKER_02: 39:06

The one thing that uh kind of uh amazes me is your motivation and uh the momentum you've built up and you're still going. How do you stay motivated on this project? I mean, have you come across a time? I'm sure you have, where it's like, gee whiz, I wish I could, I wish uh could start something different, or you know. Um how do you stay motivated? How do you keep the momentum going?

SPEAKER_03: 39:34

Yeah, I mean, if if I if I wasn't enjoying it, I I I wouldn't go from 15 years to to 40 years and like you know, planning out. I and I I think that's the biggest key is like this, I'm having the time of my life. Like these are the best books I've ever read. And each year gets better and better. Um, to where like I I want to to spend the next 40 years. I I want to spend the rest of my life in these works. They all speak to one another. So like every time you read a book, like it's it's enhancing your enjoyment of the next book because you're seeing where these ideas came. And so that's one aspect of it of just like the this is this is honestly the best reading I've ever done in my life. And I I keep saying that every new year. Um, and it and it just keeps being true, like it, it just keeps getting better. But then I also have like a uh uh release valve in the sense of these months that I have of breaks. Because like reading Plato, I I did. I just started to get like, this is so heavy. I'm having trouble understanding this. Like I just need a break. Um, and but I know a break is coming up, and that's my December. I call it winter break. And so I'm just reading like stuff that I've wanted to read for a while, uh, book books that uh some of my friends have written.

SPEAKER_02: 40:50

Um and yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 40:54

But I'm just like, I'm I'm enjoying, yeah. Like I, you know, if I wanted to put a Hardy Boys book in there, that I would do it in December, or I would do it in July, where which is my summer break. Um and then starting the year off with the Bible for two months. So, like any given year, um, it's just eight months that are in the immoral books or the great books. The rest of the time uh is other reading. And so even if I'm I'm in the depths of of Plato, I I know that there's a month coming up where it it there'll be some sort of a release. Um and that that helps me a lot too. So just the fact that these are the best books I've ever read, the there are they're great books for a reason, like they're they're really. Incredible. And then also that I just kind of schedule my year to have it to where it's not, it's not the great books for the next 40 years, straight, straight on, you know.

SPEAKER_02: 41:47

I know earlier this year, I think it was over the summer, you recommended that I read uh Theo of Golden. And uh wow man, that like I told you on the phone, that was that was a that's a good book. It's a great book. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 42:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 42:06

It's easy to read, it's not that long, and has such an impact and takes it's not uh it it has a nice twist, not at not at the very beginning, but at the at all through the book. I mean it's like he plays cards and he only shows you a little, you know, one card at a time, and uh you kind of get sucked into this uh this story, and uh what's it gonna do next? You know, it's just the just not the twist at the end, but it twists and turns throughout. And uh what how did you find out about that book?

SPEAKER_03: 42:45

Uh there was a lady in town here, a publisher, and um she she wanted me for lunch, so we got we got lunch, and she she's great. Like we just had a fun time. We were sitting there talking about reading and all that. And so her profession is to get books and and meet with authors and and um you know discover books and all that kind of thing. But uh, so she was telling me about different books she was working on and all that, but then then she said, uh, I've got a book I want to give you here. And this is not a book I'm working on. This is not this is not one of my authors, but I've read this book or I read this book and then I read it four more times immediately after. And then she handed me Theo Golden. So this was um September 6th, 2024, when she handed that to me. And then my December month was coming up. So I read Theo Golden for the first time last year in December. Um, but when she told me, and this is a woman who her job is to read books, you know, and find books and all that. For her to read a book and then read it four more times in a row without reading other things. I've never in my life heard of someone doing that. I've never in my life, especially heard of someone who their job is to read books, uh, stop everything they're doing and read a book five times in a row. So I knew there was something special. And then I just other places podcasts, and then I'd started hearing about this book. So yeah, and I had heard a podcast with uh the author Alan Levi on it um probably three or four years before that. I was like, man, uh this guy sounds interesting. I uh and this was just when he was doing music and and um and different things and then you know, before Theo Golden. And so yeah, I just uh it just kind of came to the point where like I know I need to read this book and I read it, I loved it. Um, and then I uh I told people it I did a podcast on it or for Books of Titans, and then I told uh people at the bookstore and they started reading it, and then we started carrying it the books, carrying it at the bookstore. I think we've sold probably close to a thousand copies of it now at the bookstore. Um, and then we had a big event with Alan in September. It was actually uh a year to the date of when I had first gotten the book from that publisher, Karen Anderson. So uh we had an event this year, September 6, 2025. I just drove down to Birmingham last week to see Alan at another author event that he did um last week. So yeah, it's just it's it's been neat. Uh the book has now been picked up by a major publisher. So he at first uh just self-published it and sold 170,000 copies. And uh now uh the put this publisher has picked it up and um their first print run is you know tens of thousands, and and and they just record recorded uh uh audiobook version of it. So it's it's really it's it's now on the the New York Times bestseller list.

SPEAKER_02: 45:39

And um, so well I appreciate the recommendation. Yeah, yeah, great.

SPEAKER_03: 45:45

Yeah, it's been fun to to witness all that.

SPEAKER_02: 45:48

And you hosted you hosted, you were on stage with him asking him questions at your author event.

SPEAKER_03: 45:53

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 45:54

I think I saw the video of that, yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 45:57

Yeah, we did it. We we ended up having two events, so I I prepared two different sets of of questions, and um that that was a real joy. I basically took a month to just to prepare for that.

SPEAKER_02: 46:08

What's one piece of advice? We'll end with this. What's one piece of advice that you would give the listeners if they're wanting to read more or even just start reading? What's uh what's your advice for getting started or or or reading more?

SPEAKER_03: 46:26

Yeah, I've got a friend uh named Alex, who is a big reader, and his his uh name on online is uh books with Alex. He's got this saying that um read what you love until you love what you read. And so that's my that's the first suggestion I always give people. And the best place to do that is a bookstore or a library, just walk in. You're gonna naturally go to areas that you're interested in. You're just gonna naturally gravitate to those areas, and maybe you're interested in sports or fantasy books or new releases, you know, like or a particular topic. Like just go where your body takes you and your mind takes you in in these places and find a book that looks really interesting on a topic that you are interested in. You will want to read that book. It'll just get you in the habit of of reading. And when when I'm just in books that I I love, it's like I stay up late to read. I I'm always, you know, I'm giving up other stuff just to make time to read. And that that's where you want to get. And I think I have a romantic net uh notion that that would happen to anybody if they had the right book. But I think the right book has to be tied to what you're just naturally interested in. So start there. That's going to create a reading habit, and it and it's gonna make you want to read more books because you're gonna see a book referenced in what you're reading. Like, oh wow, this goes this goes deeper. I I want to, I want to find more. Um, and so you're just that's the most natural way, as opposed to like, oh, pick a list of the top 20 books and just start reading through them. You may hate them, and then that may just make you want hate reading altogether. But if if you just start with your desire, if you start with what you're interested in, find a book, just one book, just find one book on that and start reading it. You're you have a better chance of moving forward as a reader than if you try to do stuff that people tell you to do, in the sense of uh read books that that people say you should read. Just read what you want.

SPEAKER_02: 48:42

Oh, and I should uh one caveat to Theo of Golden, you should probably have some Kleenex with you when you finish up the book.

SPEAKER_03: 48:49

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 48:51

The uh I think I mean, if people want more information, uh want to ask you a question or check out what you're doing, where do they go?

SPEAKER_03: 49:02

Yeah, booksofTitans.com. Um, and that that is a Substack page. So best thing would just be to put in your email right there. Uh, and then you'll start getting anytime I release a podcast, and then uh every Tuesday I release an article. And the articles are usually just about what I'm reading and and what I'm learning, and try to tie different things together from from different books. Um so that that's the best place to get connected there.

SPEAKER_02: 49:27

Have you heard of the Founders Podcast? Yeah. Uh Peter Cerna, I think is his name. Cerna. He's uh I'm really he'll take a book, a biography of a famous multimillionaire, billionaire, you know. He kind of focuses on those guys, and uh Walt Disney and Michael Dell and Elon Musk, and you know, the list goes on and on, Bill Gates. Um I'm really enjoying it. I've started with his first podcast, and it's a little I wouldn't say it's rough. Uh you can tell it's his first podcast. But then when you get into the later years of it, you know, he's been doing it for quite a while now. I think he's on Spotify now. Um he's got his own show on Spotify, but still doing the same thing. He reads a book, reads it over again, and then just pretty much summarizes what he read about this. The founder, you know, Henry Ward or J. Paul Getty, whatever. It's cool. It is cool. Well, uh I really appreciate you stopping by again. This is uh this is a good uh Christmas tradition, and uh we'll have you back again uh next year and see what how you're doing. Um yeah, I think I'm gonna make a note here. Well, what do you think of it? I'm gonna ask you this one off the wall question. Yeah, sometimes they get uh sometimes you hear these books uh that are supposedly really popular, uh, critics' choice, something like uh Catcher in the Rye. You ever read Catcher in the Rye?

SPEAKER_03: 51:13

If I did, it would have been um high school or middle school. I I don't remember it.

SPEAKER_02: 51:21

Yeah. I do, and it's kind of weird, and I always wonder why it's on the list, you know. And then the other one I started reading was Jack Karouac's uh on the road. And I just kind of put that, I had to put it down. I don't know. It's just I was like, well, I don't know what the hubbub is here, you know. With this yeah, that's an interesting book.

SPEAKER_03: 51:40

That that's one of those where people like either think it's the greatest thing ever written or have have your experience. I I was more along your your experience, but yeah, I just I hear I hear all the time that that was the book that just inspired people in crazy ways. So yeah, I it's I guess we we we kind of approach books in different ways.

SPEAKER_02: 52:03

And it's all in the eyes of the beholder, I guess. Yeah, yeah. All right, Eric. Well, have a great rest of the day and happy new year, uh Merry Christmas, happy new year, and uh we'll uh stay in touch.

SPEAKER_03: 52:16

Likewise.

SPEAKER_02: 52:17

Thanks, Scott. Talk to you later.

SPEAKER_03: 52:19

Yep.

SPEAKER_02: 52:20

Bye.

SPEAKER_00: 52:21

The Scott Townsend Show is a D So Man production. For more episodes, visit the Scott Townsend Show YouTube channel, listen on Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.