Hass to Hear #197

Bella Hass with the Hass to Hear podcast interviews Josh Nelson. They had a great discussion and hope you will enjoy it too. They talk about financial advising, Josh's own financial journey, but also how to teach financial literacy to kids and advice for younger generations as people are getting going. They also talk about how to be intentional and have a spirit of generosity as we build up and become successful over time. 

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Podcast Editor: Tim Leaman/info.primegen@gmail.com

Transcript

Wiser Financial Advisor – Hass to Hear Interview, Bella and Josh

Hi Everyone, and welcome to the Wiser Financial Advisor podcast, where we get real, we get honest, and we get clear about the financial world and your money. This is Josh Nelson, a Certified Financial Planner, founder and CEO of Keystone Financial Services. Let the financial fun begin!

Josh: Recently, I had the opportunity to be on somebody else's podcast, named Hass to Hear. Bella Hass interviewed me. We had a great discussion, and I hope you will enjoy it. We talked about financial advising, my own financial journey, but also how to teach financial literacy to kids and advice for younger generations as people are getting going. We also talked about how to be intentional and have a spirit of generosity as we build up and become successful over time. I hope you are going to enjoy the discussion. Have a wonderful week and God bless.

Bella from Hass to Hear Podcast: We are so excited to announce today's host, Josh Nelson, on the podcast today. Josh is the founder and CEO of Keystone Financial Services, responsible for the overall direction and growth of his firm. His business mission is to create massive value for his clients by building high trust relationships and delivering an outstanding financial planning experience. With over 20 years of experience as a financial advisor, Josh has been in over 10,000 client meetings and led countless seminars and webinars on wealth building and financial planning topics. Prior to Keystone, Josh was a financial advisor with Addison Avenue, a credit union-based firm that provided wealth management and financial education services to workers at technology companies, and he continues to work with employees and retirees of tech companies. Josh is a Certified Financial Planner and has earned his master's degree in personal financial planning. Josh is also an accredited wealth management advisor, accredited asset management specialist, and has earned the Master Planner Advanced Studies designation. Because of his deep knowledge and experience, Josh is a sought-after source among regional and national media outlets. His insights have been featured at CSNBC, Investor’s Business Daily, USA Today, US News and World Report, The Street, Yahoo Finance, Investment News, and Denver's NBC affiliate 9News. His Wiser Financial Advisor podcast has had thousands of downloads. And ladies and gentlemen, we are excited and thrilled to have him here today on the Hass to Hear podcast. Josh, thank you.

Josh: Thank you, Bella. Thanks for the warm welcome. I’m excited to do this.

Bella: We're so thrilled to have you, and with that, I'm going to dive right in. So Josh, we just read your bio. It was extremely impressive. My first question for the audience, just to kick us off here, is what first drew you into financial advising? How did your own journey shape the way people make wise decisions in a world that doesn't always feel predictable?

Josh: It started when I was about nine years old, I think. My first job was a paperboy back when that was a thing. As a paperboy, I made a little bit of money. One of the things my mom taught me when I got my first money (probably five bucks or something, right?) is that you don't spend it all; you take some of that money and you invest it. She helped me set up this little account and the first investment I ever made was Coca-Cola stock. Fractional shares, right? Tiny amounts that went in. Some of those seeds that were planted early on, I wasn't thrilled about at the time. I didn't understand why I couldn't spend it all. 

It wasn't a taboo subject in our household to talk about money, to talk about investments and stocks and so forth. I wasn't one of those students that went through high school saying, “I want to be a financial advisor,” but it got resurrected later on. In college, I was working at a grocery store, which happened to have a bank or credit union that was in the store. One of my friends went to work over there, and he said, “You should come do this.” So, I got a job as a teller, an entry-level in the financial industry, and I fell in love with it. I loved everything about money. I just found it fascinating, and being able to help not just myself, but other people along the way. 

I ended up getting through college and right out of college became a financial advisor. I’ve been doing it ever since. As far as helping people, there's so much information out there. Back in ’99, the year that I started as an advisor, a bunch of older people at the time told me, “Gosh, I don't know if this is a very safe career for you because now there's the internet, right? E-Trade, and places people can do their own investing. So are they really going to need you?”  And the exact opposite has happened. There's so much conflicting information out there and advice that it's really boosted the need for quality advice.

Bella: Interesting. Josh, you are a dad, correct?

Josh: I am. Five times over. Yes.

Bella: That's right. Five kiddos. I'm one of five kids as well. I love that your mom helped you start investing at a young age. What are some of your rules for your kiddos?

Josh: Well, we've made them all have jobs at some point. That's one mistake we sometimes see people make, especially if they’ve started from nothing and built up. They've got enough income, right? But then they make the mistake of saying, “We don't want our kids to struggle like we did. We don't want them to have to go through anything hard, and so we're just going to pay for everything, never make them have a dirty job washing dishes or mowing lawns or anything like that.” I don't think it matters what they do, just so they get a reality check about, “Hey, you got to work, right?” You do have to work in this world to be able to earn an income. And with that income, do something smart. First of all, don't borrow. Don't take on any debt. Have an emergency fund for unexpected stuff and then start investing. 

Individual stocks are, I think, more appealing to younger people as opposed to a mutual fund, which is pretty boring, even though the fund is probably the more prudent thing to do from a diversification standpoint. When I talk to high school groups, they're always interested in talking about individual stocks or sometimes crypto as well, though not so much crypto lately. We've seen crypto markets drop off, so I'm not getting those questions as much as I did. But finding companies that you use, companies that you're interested in, and realizing that you can buy a piece of that company, interests them. So, starting to plant those seeds as far as what is investing and when you get started, what are the right habits to get started with? Because most of us didn't get lucky and have a big pile of money drop into our lap. We had to do a lot to get going. Of course, we all have a backstory of people who helped us, even if we're so-called self-made. There was always some support along away. Still, there's a lot of heavy lifting and certain things that we have to put off. 

It'd be great to go take an extra vacation, but if it means putting it onto a credit card or if it means we don't have enough money to invest or open a kid's college account, things like that, it's important to think about the why behind what we really want. When we first started working with clients, those were some of the earlier questions. People want to know what this is all about, right? We've got income, we've got some savings and resources, but what's important? Usually, it comes down to financial security, wanting to make sure we're going to be okay. Then comes thinking about the future, college funds, retirement funds, we want to be able to travel, we want to be able to buy a home. Any of these things require planning and delayed gratification, right? That money we use to put down on the house or into the college or retirement account, that money will come back and help us, but in the meantime, it's hard, right? Especially if people aren't in the habit of it. That's why it's so important to start at an early age to get that concept down like my mom did for me. You don't spend everything. You take some of that money and put it away.

Bella: That's so good. I'm gonna jump in here because you said a trigger phrase that I really want to talk about: Delayed gratification, which seems like a muscle that is not exercised often. So, when you compare yourself to others. It used to be comparing yourself to the Joneses. Now we have social media where you can compare yourself to 30 people in a matter of 45 seconds or less. Here’s my question. What do you think of social media and how does the social media push towards decisions that look good on the surface but don't align with real life goals or values and how can delayed gratification be a key factor for some of these people listening in?

Josh: Social media is a great thing in a lot of ways, right? It helps us keep up with people and helps us learn in bite size reels and so forth. When social media first came out, it was just people posting pictures of their family or their cat, things like that. It helped us keep up with each other. And now it's become this whole other thing. The pace of information has accelerated. I talked about information back in '99, and people saying, “You're not going to need the advisors.” Now, it's going faster and faster and faster. I don't know if you feel that same way, but it seems like the flow of t things hitting us is just faster and faster. 

So yeah, I think it's important to recognize that there's good stuff out there but also a lot of bad information. We’re being exposed to bad advice. Certainly, these platforms are built to make money. For companies like Meta and others running the social media platforms, it's all about clicks and eyeballs. They don't care whether you're financially successful or not. They don't care about your family. I mean, they just don't, right? So, you've got to be your own advocate. You have to be the gatekeeper of your own mind and be careful what you're letting in. I wouldn't let social media be your only source. There is some good stuff, though. For example, Dave Ramsey bite-sized reels pop up. Sometimes that's all the time that we've got. Sometimes we don't have time to sit down and read a book, especially when we've got young kids or a career, lots of stuff going on. So if you’re careful, it can be helpful.

Bella: That's really good. How do you personally delay gratification?

Josh: When we choose to save and invest, that's making a conscious decision. If someone is still digging out of debt, for example paying off a student loan is not fun, right? But it feels good when it's done, and now we don't have that monthly payment. There is a sense of freedom. I went through that years ago, paying off student loans. I think it's good for everybody to be poor at some point, or to feel poor. That way we understand the value of money. When you consciously choose to automatically have money going into, say, a college savings plan or retirement funds or some other type of investment, or if you’re trying to build up a savings account, I love having things be automated as opposed to having to think about it. Whatever you can do to automate savings, automate paying off debt, you can do it. If you’re paying off student loans, you can set it up to make a higher payment than what you're required to make. 

If we don't have to think about stuff, we'll get there a lot faster. The money that's left in our checking account, that's kind of fair game, right? If it's in your checking account, you tend to think of it as yours, right? Now I can spend that money. Automation is better than trying to fight reality. I'd say about 5% of the population really enjoys budgeting. They know how much they spend on groceries and can't go a penny over, and they track every single expense. Most people don't do that. I find that it's more helpful to figure out the priorities and then automate so that it's automatically going out of the checking account or the paycheck and then whatever's left, you can spend. Don't go into debt. Don't rack up credit cards and you'll end up being okay. So, when we're doing financial planning, we're doing the math behind all of that, figuring out what's important to that person and then attaching some numbers and some timeframes, and then automating all of it so we can just live the rest of our life and not have to worry about it.

Bella: I'm hearing a theme of automation, which I love.

Josh: Yeah, we can only think about so many things. The flow of information is just accelerating. and I don't think that's gonna change, with artificial intelligence and quantum computing, right? Things will continue to go faster and faster. It will become even more important to be disciplined about our time and attention, because we can only pay attention to so many things. If we don't consciously choose to direct that, then something like Meta or other companies running media platforms are going to be controlling our time and attention. I think it's super important to be intentional about how we're spending our resources. One of the most important is time. That's the only one we can't get back.

Bella: Yep. Dan and I are clients of yours, and I remember we sat with you and your team and said, “Here are our goals. Here's what's of value to us.” And I may have brought up that we love Costco, Josh. And you were like, that's the thing.

Josh: Yeah, it's dangerous. You walk in that door for a cheap jug of milk, right? And walk out with a lot more than that.

Bella: Exactly. Sweaters for the kids and gloves for next season and all that strategy.

Josh: They're marketing geniuses as far as product placement. Everything is very conscious from when you walk in.

Bella: Yeah, we have a plan, and we know the path. We target everything. When my husband's with me, we always stick to that budget. If I go by myself, we'll have a fun thing or two, but I do that strategy for sure. So, the next question, Josh, if you could give your younger self one piece of financial advice, something that would hold true no matter what's happening in the world, what would that be?

Josh: Everybody says I wish I would've started sooner. Usually, it’s I wish I would've paid off debt sooner. I wish I would've taken out less student loans. I wish I would've started investing sooner. My mom and dad both had pretty good financial habits and talked about it, so I feel like I had a leg up on a lot of people because I knew what the right thing was to do. Didn't always do it, as far as spending money and things. But when I first started making real money at a real job, right off the bat I signed up for the 401k, started funding Roth IRAs and didn’t take on credit card debt, things like that. The biggest piece of advice is to start as early as possible. Don't wait. It's really tempting to just spend what’s in front of you as soon as you have it, right? Going back to delayed gratification, it’s especially tempting when you don't have a lot of support around you for that. If you're looking at social media, most of that's geared toward spending money and going on vacations and things like that. None of that's bad. It's all good as long as you plan well. If you have a 401 at work, sign up when you first get the job. Then you're getting your paycheck, and you don't know any different. You're tricking yourself into saving and investing. Start as early as possible. That gives you an advantage versus so many people who wait. They think, “Well, after we have the whatever, or after this is paid off, or after we have the house, after the kids are in school,” whatever the excuse is. 

The compound interest factor is working against you the longer you wait.  If you start early, it’s easy to become a millionaire, multimillionaire because of the compounding effect of your investments. Start as early as possible and don't believe that if you're in your twenties or thirties, you don't have to think about this stuff yet. We want this for our clients. We want to be debt free, to pay for college, things like that—but the big goal is that someday we want work to be optional. We don't want to have to work past a certain point. We try to get our clients financially independent as soon as possible. They might decide to work for years after they're financially independent, but then it’s a choice, especially if you're not self-employed. There are risks there too, of course. But if you're working for an employer, we’ve heard lots of stories of once great companies choosing to do cutbacks, sometimes even cutting the best performing workers. We've seen some of the best performing folks end up at the wrong place on the spreadsheet. Then all of a sudden they're in a tough situation. We want our clients to have that choice. There’s a sense of freedom too, in walking into work knowing that if you don’t want to do this, you don’t have to, so you're doing it by choice.

Bella: That is something we’ve talked a lot about: asking how do we set ourselves up, even going as radical as asking ourselves what if we didn't have a mortgage payment? What would we want to do? 

Josh: Yeah, absolutely.

Bella: Josh, what are the most common financial missteps that you see people make in their twenties, thirties, and forties? You alluded to how beneficial it is to start young, but aside from that, what are some of the most common missteps and what can help people get back on a wise path?

Josh: I like to work backwards. We're part of the Dave Ramsey Smart Faster Program, which helps connect people that need help with advisors that follow certain principles. They don't just let anybody in. It needs to be somebody who actually believes in not taking on debt and on paying off the mortgage early if possible and setting aside money. So, probably the biggest mistake that I see people make, is too much spending. 

Americans are very good at this. Americans are great consumers. We're great at spending money. About 70% of the economy is just us spending our money at Costco and other places, taking vacations, right? Which is all good. We never judge people as far as where they spend their money. We don’t hand out rules for how you should do this or you shouldn't do that. I don't think that's helpful or supportive. We try to go in the reverse, though, again asking, what's important? Let's get you financially stable first. Let's get out of debt, maybe not the house, initially at least, but let's get all of our other debt paid off. Let's get three to six months’ worth of living expenses set aside in savings. Again, that stuff is not real exciting, but it puts you in a great position. Not only for opportunities, but if something bad happens, you’re covered. That's always there, right? There are always unexpected things coming up. Tires on the car, the dog gets sick. We could make a big list of stuff that happens that we didn't expect. That’s why we've got to have that cash set aside. If we don't, then, what choice is there? When you're faced with something like the dog is sick, and that’s like a family member, it isn’t like you're not going to spend the thousand dollars or whatever it is to get them taken care of, but now it's going on a credit card. Then we're at Costco and, oh, that's a cool kayak and whatever, right? Those things can stack up pretty darn quick. So yeah, Americans are great consumers.

We can shift that though, and put it in reverse by asking: How do I become a great investor and set myself up so this stuff is automated and all of our priorities are taken care of before we have the money hit the checking account? After that, spend the rest. That's fine. Go do what you want to do. But often, people will approach it the opposite way. They'll say, “I'll invest when we get caught up on some of this other stuff or after we take this vacation or after Christmas.” There will always be this after, after, after. Not judging anyone, that's just human nature. We've got to work with what is reality, and work with things that will support us without us having to think about it.

Bella: I have to plug Keystone Financial and your company right now. When we were interviewing potential financial advisors, it was clear that you operate with such excellence. When attending your appreciation events, we were seriously blown away. That's coming from someone who has an event background. It made perfect sense to work with you guys. So for people listening, it was 401ks and IRAs and stocks and more, which can all be overwhelming. I asked a lot of questions and you guys were very patient about putting it into layman's terms. It was inspiring to see how clear this is and how easy it can be if you automate and focus in and hone in on what the values are for each family. We've loved working with you guys for that reason, for sure.

Josh: Yeah, thank you. Relationships are super important to us. Not to say that other advisors don't have great relationships with their clients, but we put extra focus on getting to know our clients so that we can help them do excellent financial planning that’s aligned with their goals and values. The financial world is complicated. There's just so much information out there, and the rules change constantly as far as taxes and how to save for retirement, how to save for college. Because the rules change, it does require an expert. 

In some cases, people decide to self-direct their own investments. Well, that means you're the expert. Sometimes people say, “This is my hobby. I'm going to spend a bunch of time on it and get really good at it.” Well, I don't know. Especially if you've got kids, do you have a lot of extra time to be an expert at something besides your job and your life? I know I could do my own taxes, but I don't. I pay somebody to do that because, what's the trade-off? How many hours a year would that take me? Time is the thing you can't get back. How many hours would that take me and where else could I direct that time? It could be into my own business, to make that even more successful. It could be extra time with the kids, or time to become more healthy, get more workouts in or sign up for an event. All kinds of things. As I've gotten older, I’m more and more conscious of time. Everybody says it goes fast, and it does. Over the years I’ve gotten more choosy about how to spend my time and what things to ignore. And for some of the things that are super important, is there a way to delegate that or collaborate with somebody else who's really good at it, so I can focus on the other areas of my life?

Bella: Right. I love that. I'm going to switch gears here for a second. We've been reflecting on this idea of the more you take, the less you get. How do you see that play out in generosity and long-term financial health?

Josh: For my wife and I, it's kind of funny that we would choose to tithe. We've got 10% of our money going out and sometimes more, right? That's the benefit over time: as you become more financially successful, you can choose to do extra gifts and things like that. But when we first started tithing years ago, it was a little scary. It was like, gosh, 10% of our income, should we really be doing that? But we've never missed it. Again, automating things is super important. Even automating your giving, so you don't have to think about it. You want to make the conscious decision to support church or other charities, things like that, but have it be automated so it's not something that becomes a burden at the end of the year and gosh, we have to write this big check. If we divide it out by 12 or 26 or whatever throughout the year, then we don’t miss that money. It's worked out that way for us. And in the end, contributing is one of the greatest values we get. It's a gift for ourselves, too. Obviously, we're supporting other people, supporting the church or wherever we're giving, so there is a practical thing happening with the money, but the reality is that it's good for our own souls, our own hearts, to be generous.

Bella: I love that too. We're talking about saving, but we're also talking about the power in generosity and stewardship and sewing something that's beyond ourselves.

Josh: Yeah, absolutely.

Bella: I love that. How have you seen generosity and stewardship strengthen people's lives? I'm asking financially, relationally, or spiritually in ways that maybe they didn't expect.

Josh: Certainly, from the financial standpoint, I think it's good for us to do that. There's a role for government and everything, but a lot of the practical help that people need, not only on the financial side but on the time side, is given in community. Time is even more valuable as we get older. When you're young, you don't have any money and you've got tons of time. As you get older, you’ve got money, but where did the time go? Especially when you've got kids, boom, it goes fast. The days can be really long sometimes, especially with little ones, but then you look at photos from six months ago and oh my gosh, a year ago or five years ago, and realize how quickly it goes. So, the greatest gift you can give is your time and attention and showing you authentically care. Many people don't get that given to them. In our business, we spend time and show that we care. It comes back to us. You know, when you're giving it away, you're giving it to yourself too. It just makes you feel better and makes you a better person, a more whole person.

Bella: I love that. I love that we're talking about this because, yes, save and be diligent, but it goes beyond finances into relational, spiritual and emotional, which is just profound.

Josh: Yeah, I think starting early though, is key to thriving on the financial side of things. Habits tend to stack up over time. It’s like going to the gym in January and the first three weeks or so, it's miserable, right? You don't want to get up and you're sore and everything like that. But then it becomes a routine part of what you do. it’s the same thing with serving, whether serving at church, serving in the community, things like that. When you're young, maybe you do have more time. Maybe that's how you can give more. But starting with that financial habit, if you or you and your spouse if you’re married have decided it's definite that you’re going to give, automating it so you're not having to think about it works wonders. When you get your first job, just have it start going away before the dollar amounts get really large later on. Then if you're used to giving, that's just what we do.

Bella: Hmm. I love that. When you look at people who build wealth that lasts across seasons, cycles, and changes, what principles or habits show up again and again? 

Josh: If you really simplify it, you can be successful in many ways, right? Not just financially, but career wise, having a good family life and building emotionally strong kids. A lot of it is being intentional and thinking about where are we now, and what do we want? What do we want this to look like, not just getting through today or this week? When we look backwards, say a year from now, five years from now, how will it look? At some points in our lives, it can be easier to reflect on certain ages. When I'm 40, when I'm 50, when we hit this milestone, when the kids leave the house, whatever it is, what do we want our relationship to look like? What do we want our relationship with our kids to look like? What do we want to instill in them? I've got teenagers now, and so they're in that mode when they’re almost gone. What can we instill in them that they can carry on? That's part of our legacy as parents, what our kids carry into their college years, their career, their families, things like that. Being intentional about where we want to be financially matters a lot. 

As financial planners, we spend the time to do the math and figure out where we are now and where we want to be. There's the financial world and the noise and all of our resources, figuring out  what needs to happen.  Basically, what are the actions right now that we need to take? In anything, it's just getting clear and asking some of those basic questions. It can seem silly, right? Almost like, that's so simple and basic and everything. I mean, life happens, we're in the whirlwind on any given day, right? You are too. We get busy, things get crazy, we get caught up. So, taking the time to be intentional, pausing once in a while, doing client review meetings once or twice a year at least. We have clients come in and often that meeting is to reassess. When we first started working together, we talked. Where are we now, based off of what we talked about? What course corrections do we need to make?

Bella: We follow Dr. Amen. I don't know if you know Dr. Daniel Amen. brain specialist. Do you know who I'm talking about?

Josh: Yeah, a little bit.

Bella: He's awesome. And he says, “Okay, does this support the parent I want to be? Does this action support where I intend to go with this? Do these values or things that I do on a daily basis support the parent, the wife, the person I want to be?” It's a good gut check, similar to what you just said.

Josh: Yeah, absolutely. People don't just become financially successful. It was a bunch of habits and a bunch of time that led to that. And if you want to have a great relationship with your spouse, with your kids, with your parents, that doesn't just happen in a moment either. It all compounds, right? And it's never too late. That's something you touched on before, is asking what about people who got off track? On the financial end of things, if they got off track, they feel like they're behind and wish they would've started sooner. Well, it's never too late. We had a client years ago who went through a divorce and had to start over from nothing. I think she had a house with a mortgage on it, and that was it. She had her job and in the span of 15 years, she rebuilt. She had to work really hard to put money into her 401k. She practiced delayed gratification. There was a lot she couldn't do because she needed to build a retirement fund so she didn't have to work forever. I was super proud of her. I worked with her that entire time and super proud that she got to retire. She lives out in California now, close to her son and has a house and gets to do what she wants to do. So even in a wipeout situation, some people would look at that and think that if you get wiped out at age 50, there's no way you could come back from that. And she did.

Bella: I love stories like that. Thank you for sharing. Now, Josh, we've touched on so many awesome things and I really appreciate your time. We end every episode with the same question. If there's one piece of wisdom or one thing that you've already addressed that you think people Hass to Hear, what would that one thing be?

Josh: If it was the only thing, I'd say the secret to living is giving. Yes, financial growth is important as well. But in the end, somebody on their deathbed doesn’t care about their money. At that point, it's relationships. It's the people they care about, their memories. Giving financially is part of it. But again, how do they spend their time? That's really what matters at that point.

Bella: That's awesome. I love that. Josh, thank you so, so much. For all the listeners, if you want to connect with Josh, you can reach him at www.keystonefinancial.com . You can learn about how they work, learn about the staff and what they do. You can get started if you're looking to work with financial advisors. Josh, thank you so much for being here.

Josh: Thanks, Bella.

We love feedback and we'd love it if you would pass it on to me directly at josh@keystonefinancial.com . Also, please stay plugged in with us, get updates on episodes, and help us promote the podcast by rating us five stars and subscribing to us at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast service.

The opinions voiced in the Wiser Financial Advisor show with host Josh Nelson are for general information only and are not intended to provide specific advice or recommendations for any individual. To determine what may be appropriate for you, consult with your attorney, accountant, financial or tax advisor prior to investing. Investment advisory services offered through Keystone Financial Services, an SEC registered investment advisor.