The Middletown Centre for Autism Podcast
The Middletown Podcast features interviews with leading thinkers and practitioners across the autistic and autism community. Conversations are autism-affirming and neurodiversity-informed with a focus on the lived experience and knowledge of our community. Episodes highlight issues impacting autistic people and we share ideas for family members and school staff who are providing support.
The Middletown Centre for Autism Podcast
Christmas with Amanda McGuinness
On the latest Middletown Podcast chat to autistic parent and advocate, Amanda McGuinness. We talk about Christmas and how Amanda and her family navigate pressure, excitement and expectations around the holiday season. We try very hard not to spoil any of the magic of Christmas in our chat, but you might want to listen to this one away from the ears of little believers.
More about Amanda:
Amanda McGuinness is an Autistic advocate, Autism and Visual Supports Specialist, and Founder of Little Puddins. She is also the Director of Autism Advocacy and Professional Practice at Flourish Autism Consultancy & Training, an Autistic-led organisation providing neuro-affirmative training, consultancy, and professional development across Ireland. Through Flourish, founded by Bernie Smith, Amanda and the team deliver evidence-informed, lived-experience focused learning for families, educators, and professionals, alongside a growing range of free community resources designed to promote understanding, inclusion, and authentic support for Autistic individuals and their families.
Welcome to the Middleton Podcast. I'm Catheus, I'm a researcher of Middleton and I'm also autistic. In this episode, I chat with a wonderful human being that is Amanda McGuinness. Amanda is an autistic advocate, autism and visual support specialist, and founder of Little Puttons. She's also director of autism advocacy and professional practice at Flourish Autism Consultancy and Training. I could talk to Amanda about a million different things, and hopefully I'll get some more chances to chat with her for the podcast. In this episode, though, we're talking all things Christmas. Amanda is from a neurodiverse family, so I want to chat to her about how she navigates different preferences and needs, how she manages the pressure in Christmas, and how she creates her own traditions. I know this can be a busy, stressful time, so I hope our chat is a moment of calm. Amanda, thank you so much for joining us on the podcast. It's lovely to chat to you again. I want to start by asking you, are you a fan of Christmas?
SPEAKER_00:Well, I am as it happens, and it's just as well that I am, because I have four children, so it wouldn't be very merry in our house if I wasn't. But yeah, I think I think I always have been. More than I think, I think it's as as will often be in many households. It's I suppose I didn't really realise it when I was young, but it's probably the atmosphere that your family create for you and the build-up to it, and obviously the lovely morning of the of the 25th. But I think as a parent, I have uh maybe a different insight now into Christmas because maybe when I was because I've obviously four autistic children, but when I was say originally starting out as a parent, I was trying to replicate what I had all always known as a parent. And now I realise, have realized that into my old age of middle age, and now I realize that actually it was more about creating our own family tradition, our own family, even though I loved what I had as a young person growing. I'm one of 11 growing up in our household, but my own household is obviously a little bit different because all of my children are autistic and autistic myself. But I think I've always loved Christmas, but I've learned as well along the way that what Christmas, as I as I said at kind of at the start, has been that feeling and that experience and that atmosphere was those memories were created by would say the overarching, you know, you know, carers or parents in the household or whoever's there, you know, for the children. Um, I realized that everyone makes their own family story and their own family memories for Christmas. And I learned that as much as I loved my family experience growing up, I have my own unique family and their own unique kind of memory-making pieces that I want to do for them. So I I've changed a little bit, but yeah, I definitely am a mega fan of Christmas, mainly for as a not for myself personally now, but uh just just seeing the kids like Max is really excited. He's eight now, he's really excited to get a paw patrol, I can't think of something tower. I keep saying to myself, Santi best have that wrapped up nicely for Max. So because he likes he likes the main thing he likes is the unwrapping because he watches YouTube videos of kids unwrapping. So every time I say to him, he'll go, he'll he'll he'll always say present, and I'll say present on December 25th. Santi bringing Paw Patrol Tower, and then he gets you know the you know that feeling of oh so excited. He literally, he's like, Oh, he kind of does it externally, he's like, Oh, I'm so excited. It's the cutest thing. So, yeah, I'm looking forward to maybe it's almost like a guilty pleasure seeing how happy the kids will be. That's what I'm looking forward to, really. More than anything, that they're happy and healthy and all that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's gorgeous. And what was Christmas like then for you when you were growing up as wonderful heaven?
SPEAKER_00:Um, it was probably chaotic, but the nicest type of chaos. But it was really like our parents were amazing. Like they're obviously, I always said that was if the past they're still here. Um, um, they they just made it really special. Or I remember one thing that they used to do, and it was probably just because of exhaustion on Christmas Day. Sometimes Santi would come on Christmas Eve, and I remember we'd go to Christmas Mass, and we would never know would Santi come on Christmas Eve or Christmas morning because we didn't know, and obviously Santi wouldn't let us know um until he appeared. But we would sometimes come home and we'd always know if Santi had come on Christmas Eve after Christmas Mass because the light would be on the front hall because there were so many presses, because there were so many of us. He would arrive with the presents into the hall. So you couldn't get in the front door, then so we'd all run around the back of the house to get in. Whereas if he came in the morning, he'd be he'd have delivered the presents to the living room. But actually, it's probably to make a lot of logic. Well, he'd still didn't come down the chimney and leave it there, but maybe he had a reason and maybe he was under time pressure. But um, but Santi used to deliver everything to the the front hall with it because I lived in, I suppose there was 11 of us, dad was a bit lived in a fairly large house at the time. I was very lucky. Um we would come in the door at all the presents, but I always remember, you know, that excitement feeling, but yeah, it was always really lovely, or sometimes there'd be battles because we'd forget what what any of us had put on lists for Santi, and then we'd be like, I asked for that, and you asked for them. There'd be a couple of couple of um we'll say arguments, but primarily it was always lovely. And because everyone was at different ages and stages, there was always something exciting that someone got, or we played with each other, or you know, we ever we just got on very well for such a large household. We we got on like peas in a pot, like it was lovely.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's gorgeous. And you mentioned that idea of kind of making Christmas your own. And I feel like there's quite a lot of pressure on parents, whether it's kind of to make the sort of hallmark Christmas or to make memories or whatever it might be. Um, do you have you felt that pressure for your family?
SPEAKER_00:I think when I was starting out as a parent um to neurodivergent children, I used to, I think I wrote a blog post on this many, many years ago um on my kind of family blog website, Little Puttons. I remember saying that I used to walk down the aisles. You'll see who you're going into choose, say, because at the time Connor mightn't have been able to tell me in his own way what he might like from Santa. And I remember walking down, he was much older, say, but I was walking down the lanes of like the V Tech and the, what was it called? I I don't go down there now, say the Fisher Prices. And I remember children say that might have been Connor's age, might have been in the store with their parents, looking at things that they might like to ask. But I was looking for Connor, thinking, what might he like to ask Santi for? And I remember back then I used to have like this pit in my stomach of, oh God, like shouldn't shouldn't he be choosing from the other lanes with the cars and the the dinos and the Legos? But I'm here in Fisher Price again this year. Shouldn't I? Shouldn't he? Shouldn't I be there? What am I getting this wrong? What's and I used to have a little bit of a sadness about me, but then I had to reflect and see that every Christmas morning when he got the presents that I knew that you know that Santi would love to bring him, that he would love to have. I would see that on Christmas morning that actually, no, going into the lanes that Connor did want to have presents from was what was most important, not what I thought traditionally should be a child, say a child who might have been seven. Well, seven-year-old should be asking for. Um, Connor was asking for like the Fisher Price. You know, there's like a teddy with like coloured ears and it buttons and it plays all this. I can't think of the name of it now. Actually, I do still have one here. I'll show it to you. And I this was done a few years ago, but I kept it in case he ever liked it again. So that's what we've had probably every version of this. This is a good few years old now, but I keep it in my office just because he's nearly 16, but sometimes he might like to look at it again. Now he hasn't. He'd probably be like, listen, Mama, you're the only one that likes that teddy now. But that particular teddy, we we I think we've bought every version of it or Santi has brought every version of it if we didn't buy it as a present separately. But but I think what I learned is to make the Christmas for my children that that brings them the most drink. So if I'm trying to make positive memories for them and positive experiences, I have to focus on what what is what what is this what is it that brings my child what's called an autistic glimmer or autistic joy? What brings them the the happiest, fullest feeling in their heart? And if it's if it's a teddy, I don't even want this thing, the teddy is called. It's like is it a rabbit or is it a bear? I'm not sure, whatever that is. Is it a teddy like that or is it a box of Lego that he won't look at? So for me, it's going with what fills his heart with joy on Christmas morning. And I, whereas, say my other family members, like because I'm one of a large family, they might have more of a traditional Christmas. Are my Christmas is around what keeps the kitties regulated, what keeps them happy and settled. I I remember years ago I used to do uh, you know, ask Santa to do a whole thing about wrapping everything and have it all like presented perfectly, like it would have been for us growing up. And then I realized that actually wrapping all the presents for some of my children was actually too overwhelming between the tearing of the paper, looking at all the vastness of all, not that there was lots, there just were there were younger kids, so the toys were bigger traditionally kind of back in those days, like bigger versions of things. That used to kind of overwhelm them. So eventually I learned that actually, why was I trying to meet the standard or say what somebody's doing on social media of like, oh, I'm not a good mom unless it matches Mary from down the road or something, she had a picture up or whatever it was. And then I went back to basic and said, Well, actually, if it's about my kids, it should be about my kids and how did they experience and like Christmas and what would help them to feel most settled and happy. And it was literally at that time, I used to go without wrapping paper, or eventually learned with and different for everyone, without wrapping paper, and we'd have one section of our tiny little liver room would be say presents for Jack from Santi, we'd ask him to deliver there. Connors would be delivered from Santie in this section. Hayley'd have her own kinds, they'd be delivered near her bedroom door so the bat the boys wouldn't get to them and say before she woke. But it also meant that they knew and they and whereas I was a devil for asking Santi to bring extra presents for extra surprises, I realized, and again, this is just in our family context, that for my boys, they didn't they didn't want the extra surprises because it was unexpected. So instead, we met her or we met her Santillis, and then the Santalist changed from me writing down what I thought they might like, that we would go through the catalogues together and they'd cut out, right? Help them cut out the pictures and we'd glue it on and we'd send off a letter to Santi, but I'd take a photo of the letter so I could remind them what Santi was going to bring. So there wouldn't be too much, there'd be a nice surprise to because the presents were coming, but they would know what to expect and it wouldn't overwhelm them on the day. Whereas when I was a younger parent, I'd ask Santi to bring all the things, wrap all the things, bring extra things too, because it seemed to me the more that was there meant the better the Christmas, but actually sometimes that wasn't actually the truth at all. Sometimes it works, it worked against what I was trying to achieve for them. So I've learned that now, eventually, at the ripe old age of nearly 50. Um, I finally learned that maybe more is not always better. Sometimes it's exactly what's needed, is exactly right.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, you've actually unlocked that memory and that sort of feeling of overwhelm at Christmas that I used to actually have. I didn't, it hadn't really occurred to me that it was like just too much, too much of nice things, even it was that it's almost like anticipatory anxiety.
SPEAKER_00:You're like, oh that's so exciting, but actually it's too exciting.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's it exactly. Yeah, that's really interesting. Um, and as you say, you've got sort of a neurodiverse family. So did you is it tricky to sort of balance people's needs around Chris?
SPEAKER_00:Um, I think we've just learned over the years, especially post-pandemic, what I suppose the main thing that we learned post-pandemic is that during the pandemic, our house was never as settled and as quiet and as happy. And I learned that really making home the haven was probably the if I could do nothing else to help my kids say if I didn't have the skill set or the knowledge bases that I have, if I could do nothing else, if I could make home the safe haven for them, then we were going to get off on the right foot. So it's nothing major, exciting that we do for Christmas. That it's I actually don't really change a whole lot for Christmas, other than there's a tree. We only we used to have a big tree, now we have a small tree. I used to have all the baubles and all the things. I realize Max likes to throw those and they're gone now. So now we've little wooden decorations that can't get broken and he can't accidentally harm himself if they did get broken. And I noticed that um Connor, my eldest son, likes to turn the decorations in because they're too visually stimulating for him. So we I make sure that there's lots at the top that he can turn in so he feels like he's control over the tree. And then Max is a little bit younger and he likes to be looking at them and pulling them off and putting them on. But the ones that Connor isn't six foot, so it's probably more the top ones that would bother him the most. So we have a smaller tree now, we have only a few twinkly lights. It's still very, I would call it festive. Um, but we make sure we try and accommodate. So Max is the smaller end of the tree, the shorter part of the tree with the decorations facing it. He pulls them on and pulls them off because he's not as tall as Connor, the top of the tree. I just face all the decorations in. I'm sure from the roadside they're like, what is going on in the house with those decorations? Because it's just plain wood. There's no like the painted side is the other side. Um, but we do that, and then on the day of Christmas, everybody again, we have our own little sections of where Santi will bring the presents, and then everyone goes off to so Max generally stays in the living stuff. Because he's the littlest. Connor goes off to his room with his present. Not they don't have to, but they just kind of gravitate that way. And then Jack goes off to his room, and Haley's a teenager, goes off to her own room as well. And then um there's no like, oh, what are you opening next? What are you opening now? It's it's at your own pace. If you open it today or you never open it, that's fine. If you just want to look at the box, that's fine. If you don't like it, and you say, tell Sandy to take it back, but might put it away for a while. It's it's whatever they want. Whereas years ago, I would have had the oh, well, this is how it must happen. You must all sit around, you're like, What did you get? And what did you get? And then we're all like, Oh my god, there's going to be a meltdown here shortly. So now everyone does their own kind of thing in their own time. And the main person I suppose I'd have the most contact with on Christmas morning is Max because he needed a little bit of help, say, opening something or whatever. But again, he might he might get say what's an X amount of presence, but he'll only maybe figure out maybe one or two for the first day, and then he'll start to get interested in the next ones. But I I I make sure I don't pressurize him to look at all the things all together. And I respect the fact that they all like different things. So if Christmas sake, Connor in particular, he's a man for the clothes, he likes to look nice. My eldest son. So he Santi primarily now brings him clothes and he likes treats and things, so he'll get treats and clothes and he loves music, something to do with music. Um, and then there's not a whole lot you can do with that, really. But then we just make sure that on say Christmas morning, like it's not you can't really like play around with your clothes, but he might like to just go in and chill and put on music. But I then I spent a little bit of extra time with him just supporting him with say maybe making sure he knows I'm there if he wants me, or if does he want to see anyone else's toys or look at anything? And generally he's a teenager, he does this thing now. I used to say years ago, you know, oh, I'd be like, Connor, gee, mommy, can I do anything? Can I go? Because I'm a total helicopter mom. And he he's he I used to say he's primarily non-speaking, he's not anymore. He's making great attempts all the time, but he uses AC, he'll just smile at me like, oh, he kind of pushes me out the door gently and closes the door and then goes laughing. So I'm like, he just wants me to get out of his room. It was very funny. Um, so I think the balancing is just giving everyone the space and the time, and then we don't have any visitors. Whereas it would have been the tradition in my my family growing up, you'd have a load of visitors. I don't think people do it as much now, but back in the day they would, and because I have such a large family, they might visit on a Christmas Day, but I've kind of not a rule, I've just kind of it's been it's been the status quo since the pandemic that nobody would really visit us on Christmas Day, and nobody would expect us to visit them on Christmas Day. So the only people that might come here would be granny and granddad, my my parents in law, because they live very close. So they might pop, they wouldn't have any kind they don't have a large family. So they might pop in late in the late in the evening just to see the toys. But again, it's very relaxed. They might sit at the couch, be like, oh, what did you get? And if they wanted to show it, they couldn't. If they didn't, they wouldn't. So it's it's just very go with the flow, it's just very, very relaxed. I tried to make it as much as I can. I probably end up burning something, the kids are trying to cook. That's probably probably not as relaxing. But as far as the kids go, I just try to follow their lead as much as I can, but also give them separate time from each other because Max being the youngest and Jack, they like to engage with each other's toys, and sometimes that doesn't bode well. So it's saying, No, this is Jack's time, maybe tomorrow, and giving them like giving them the nod that actually this is someone else's special time with their new presence. So that that kind of is probably the only friction point that I'd see that could still happen because they're still a little bit young.
SPEAKER_01:Sure, yeah. Um, and yeah, you mentioned that that idea of opening presents and the pressure to to open presents. And I swear every every year I have to remind people that I'm not giving up with presents in front of anyone because you know at the best of times I have no control over what my face does.
SPEAKER_00:No, but try mine's always like, hmm, and it looks like I'm not happy, but I am. And also I generally am not a major fan of having a present anyway, because it causes that kind of anticipatory anxiety. I'm not even anxiously aware of it. I'm just I just know it doesn't feel good. So I'd rather not get a present than get a present. I'd rather you give a present. They make bring me more joy to see you got someone a present that they wanted than if I got a present. That sounds really silly, but it's the truth.
SPEAKER_01:I I agree. Absolutely. Yeah, I'd be the same. Um, and then you mentioned sort of that there there wouldn't be people calling over necessarily, but is there sort of changing routine a tricky thing to manage?
SPEAKER_00:So it is, but what I try to do is what I refer to as pillars of the day. So even though it's Christmas, we still have our pillars. So a pillar would be the morning routine stays the same, the nighttime routine stays the same, lunchtime timing would stay the same. And again, the food would stay the same because some of the kids wouldn't ever want to eat a Christmas dinner, and maybe it's because I'm cooking and I wouldn't blame them. But uh, but I try to keep everything um I try to keep everything that we've strong pillars throughout the day. So, like Max, for example, has our fit, so he doesn't eat very particular food anyway. So those foods still happen at the same time, doesn't matter what else is happening. Like he he not not all the time, but he might eat some sausage rolls for me, like some of the meat, not all of it, or not even a full sausage roll, but he'll pick at it. So that happens at the same time every day. Even now, when we're chatting on the podcast, I'm saying to myself, I must make sure after the podcast I put on the saucy, we call them saucy rolls, saucy rolls for him. Um, the same things that need to happen every day, I make sure happen. Like the bedtime routine without fail, Christmas Eve, they'll still go to bed, maybe if it happens by just by chance a little bit later. But the same routine, clothes laid out the same way, teeth brushing the same way, everything is done exactly, the same verbal routines, everything is done the same way. And then uh even in the morning time, I encourage them if I can to stay in bed until around the now max max get up at three, but around the more or less the same time, and then we get up then. But I wouldn't go in like whereas we would have woke each other as brothers and sisters, like Santi Cam, wake everyone. I wouldn't do that. Whereas I'd probably I wouldn't say selfishly, but I would have liked the experience of when they were younger, but Xanticam. Now I'm like when they wake, they wake. That's enough, um, enough excitement. When they wake, they wake. So it's just making um as much as they can, making the routine similar to day-to-day, and then allowing for decompression time where there's dissimilarity, like around the time of opening the presence, then we need some cool-off time to process the presence of coming. We need and then another thing that we do is that we always have or ask the elves to come on Christmas Eve. And the elves kind of are the signifier that tomorrow is the day that Santi is coming, and all the elves bring is literally some pajamas, one small treat, and uh maybe a small, like a very small, non-kind of um energy boosting game. It might just be even some fidgets, but that comes every Christmas Eve that they my gorgeous kids usually go to Granny Goldens, and then they come back around six or seven, and just as luck would have it, the elves might come to so that's our front doors over my shoulder where the right is over my shoulder to the right. But we've so we live in a L-shaped hile, so there's another front door. Um, but as luck would have it, whatever door they come in, sometimes the elves will have arrived to the other door, and usually my Max or my Jack will have found whatever the elves have left, usually bring in a little box or whatever it is, but then that then signifies that Christmas is happening in the morning, and then we don't cause a big fuss about it. We're like, Oh, that's so nice of the elves, but that's the elves dropping by to say, Have a good sleep now, Santa'll be here in the morning, and that kind of closes off Christmas Eve and sets it up then for Christmas Day, and that's kind of how it's yeah. But we've been doing it since Jack was a baby, I'd say. So Jack is nearly 12 now, so for 12 years, but it's worked very well in turn. I've had to adjust it over the years because again, back in the day I would have had like all the bells and whistles and I would have caused more havoc than than you know, Cam. But now it's very Cam, it's just simple pajamas. A little Jack usually likes to get like a drinks bottle from the elves, something with Christmas E and some presents, and that's it. And and it just sets up this it sets the scene for the next day, but it closes off Christmas Eve is now finished. Tomorrow is the 25, as Jack calls it, the 25. And then the presents come on the 25.
SPEAKER_01:Lovely. And then would you have any advice for parents?
SPEAKER_00:I know you're probably not one to be giving people advice, but um, I suppose I'm the only thing I would say is, and it's not for me to ever advise anyone how to be a parent, but I would say is make Christmas your own. And and and again, I'm one of 11 and a large, very large family, and there can be that pressure of expectation, and not that anyone's ever pressurizing me or has that, but I might feel it, but they don't ever, they never exert it or anything. Um, just to say to yourself that it's okay that if your Christmas doesn't look like what your Christmas screw looks like growing up, it's okay if your Christmas doesn't look like, as I say, I have six brothers and four sisters. My Christmas definitely does not look like any of their Christmases, and that's okay too, because theirs doesn't look like mine, and I'm sure they're not bothered either. But the main thing is that you take the pressure off your shoulders and you just have the Christmas that is unique and the main word meaningful to you and your family that doesn't leave you in exhaustion, or you might anyway with all the things we all do for Christmas, but try to look after your own energy in that space in time of Christmas as well. But in particular, that you have the Christmas that means something to you and your family because when all is said and done in 30 years' time and your children go, Do you remember Christmas? And I really liked, they're not going to say, Well, I really like that you matched what Uncle Bob did or what Mary down the road did. They'll be like, I really liked that this, this, and this, or I really like that Santa did they're going to remember those pieces that they're going to remember the personalization of whatever it is you choose to do because you know your child better than anybody else. Uh with obviously not it not excludes in Santa there. But other than Santay, you know your child better than anybody else, and do what's best for you and your family. And I I just maybe I'm too old and too menopausal now, but it doesn't even occur to me to be bothered that my Christmas might look very unique to anybody else. But what I do definitely have every Christmas morning is happy, I say a little bit of all trolls. I mean now nearly almost one smaller child left. Um, all of my gorgeous puddings, as I call them, are very happy generally, Christmas morning as far as I can see, and have been. And I don't think because I've done anything right or wrong, but I've just tried my best each time. And some of yours it'll go great. And the other thing is with this economy, and I know the pressure on families I see it coming up in the groups. You don't have to go out spending the big box. If your child likes fidgets, you don't need to go out and buy the 40 euro box because it's in a box. Go get yourself uh an ice container or basket, go around the shops to pick up your fidgets and pick up your bits. Because I'll be doing that for Max. I'm a diva four, and I must get it because it's in a box that has a brand on it. Instead, I'll go, well, they're not, he doesn't like half those fidgets anyway. So Santi will bring fidgets for him, and I'll probably do exactly what I've just said. So, especially in this economy, don't be rushing to get the big brand names. If you have little people or older children that have a preference for something specific, and if they're happy with the alternative, get the alternative and take the pressure off. Because especially right now, I know everyone is feeling it with the economy and the budgets and everything. Just do whatever you can and don't feel pressurized to get the the certain type of something. Just get what you can. And that that's more the main thing is that feeling that you create in the household and that enjoyment that you can create. And that doesn't come from how much you spend, that comes from the family experience. And that that again has just been, and again, I was one of 11. Didn't mean we had a big pot of gold for Santi to pull from. We certainly didn't, but again, I still remember I don't I don't differentiate one Christmas from the other where maybe and I wouldn't have been aware where Santi could have brought more expensive or less expensive. What I remember was the feeling and the experience of hanging out with my brothers and sisters and sometimes the battles that would go on over toys and things, but I don't remember any time ever being like, well, that was the Christmas. Santi had extra money in the pot to make even more things for me. I always just remember I saw them all as the same, but the the thing that remains is the feeling and the memories and the happiness.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's the thing. When you look back, it is it's the moments that you remember rather than things that you remember. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I can't remember any Christmas where I thought, well, that was the year I got the designer Teddy. I don't remember any of that. What I all I remember is the happy. I remember the one memory I have from being small is one year Santi brought me. I remember I'd seen these pajamas somewhere in Castlebar Town. I can't even remember where it could have been done stores. And by chance Santi had brought them. And that same day, I was looking at a bubble bath. And I couldn't believe that Santi had known that I liked that particular pajamas and this bubble bath. And that came on Christmas Day. And I was that was like I can still remember the scent of it. It was like a little blue bottle, and the guy, I think this, I think this will do now. He had like a sailor's hat. I think I might have seen that in Tesco now that I say it. But I remember that because I remember thinking, because this was in our house with so many of us you'd be lucky to get soap, let alone bottle bath, because it'd have all used anyone going to the shower, they'd all waste it. But I remember thinking, I've got the magic bubble bath and the lovely pajamas, and I remember wearing them on Christmas Day night, being so having after having a lovely bath, I mean so excited.
SPEAKER_01:And that was like that was you you were seen, you know.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and it was something yeah, that Santi knew, and say, Mom or dad might have tipped him off. Whoever was with me in the store must have been like, okay, we'll ask Santi to bring that. And Andy did bring it. So yeah, and that was like two simple things bottle of bubble bath, and look, we got I would have got dolls and all the fancy things, the barbies and all the things, but that's what I remember was that I or another thing was randomly. I had seen a little ballerina doll. I'd say it was about that size, one of those kind of they wouldn't have been like a branded toy type, just a small high street, small little store, you know, yeah, kind of a knick-knack store. And I remember saying I'd love to get that in my stocking, Santee, and randomly Santi brought it. And like looking at the price of it probably wasn't expensive at all. But it was the fact that he remembered that I wanted it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's really lovely. And would you have any advice for family or friends um who might be kind of supporting someone to do that?
SPEAKER_00:I think just uh have what I'd refer to as radical acceptance. If you have families that um, you know, your own family, like my own family, I would give the example of my own family, my brothers and sisters are incredible, and my parents are incredible, and my husband's family. Um, just have radical acceptance that if they're telling you it's tricky, it is tricky. Don't you don't need to question it. They live every day of their lives under immense pressure, not because of their kids, but society at large. If they're telling you this is going to be tricky for their child, it's going to be tricky. If you have family members that are coming to the house that use AAC or have a preference for the likes of, say, just using tablets, make sure family have the um Wi-Fi codes before they arrive so it automatically connects or connects as quickly as possible, because that's a big transition for them coming into your house. If they're coming into your house for say a social occasion over Christmas, have a have like a, I won't say like a breakout area, but like a like a breakout space for them. Somewhere they can just go. Maybe it's into your bedroom to lay on the bed, and maybe it's to go into another room. Um, if you have a child or if you have an Eastern nephew or a relative that has what's referred to as arphid avoidant restrictive food intake disorder, I don't like the word disorder, but that's that's the D on the end. Um, if mom or dad or caregiver saying Amanda won't be able to eat that, you know, don't be like, oh, she will, it's sure. You just have to get in there and tell her to eat it. There's a there's a there's a clinical reason that Amanda really can't eat it. There's a reason there. So uh ask ahead, okay. Amanda's coming. Do you want to bring anything from home that she will eat? Can we put that on here? Or do you want to bring your own air for it? Because maybe Amanda'll know the difference because I know Max would hear, and you can just cook it here yourself. Do you want to do that? And I'll be like, Thank you so much. Because parents, your family members that have incredible autistic children already feel enough pressure externally, not because of their children, they're feeling so much pressure and so much um unintentioned and undeserved shame already. They don't need anyone that's supporting them to add a little bit more to the pot. They feel enough pressure, they've been shamed enough by people that don't even know their lives or their existences at all. So if you can't at all um just show that extra level of kindness, and if it's something that you don't understand, just radically accept that doesn't make sense to you, but doesn't mean it's not a very real thing and a very real need for your family member or your friend or whatever's happening, and to not take, say, um, the differences that a person might exhibit as a slight upon you, it's just the person is different, they communicate, interact differently. There's no there's no intent there towards you at all. It might feel like as in society, we've I suppose we've been kind of conditioned to see that if someone says something, oh, it's a slight upon the person, it's really not. It's a person processing differently, has never occurred to them once in this interaction that in some which way you may perceive this in a different way to how they meant it. So to take on board that the interactions of your nieces and nephews or older family members coming in and out, they're not trying to be a certain way or to try, you know, cause divomint or cause anything. They're they're they're doing their best to be here. I I don't like the word resilience, so I'll say they're formidable. They're trying so hard just to be here. Resilience sometimes I think it has given us all a bad rock because we should all be trying harder. I've not yet to meet an autistic person that isn't trying really hard all the time. I just have to look at myself on camera. I'm literally losing my hair and my eyebrows because I'm trying so hard all the time to just to be and exist. So, what I'd say there is um radically accept, radically accept that if you see someone um, and I don't like the word behaving either, so just interacting or socializing or communicating in a different way, that this is their unique way being it, there's no intention anytime to cause you harm or to cause you, I suppose, disturbment. It's literally they're trying to just be and just just let people live and let people be. Or as a very famous man once said, as I am, let myself be as I am, let myself just be, and um just accept people for who they are, in the same way that you'd like yourself to be accepted for who you are, and and just for a moment think what must it be like to try and live every day in a world that's so overwhelming, even for your sister, your brother, all the children that have come to visit the house, they're battling battles that you may never have to battle and never have to experience, which is sad in a way that we we don't all have that real unique experience of viewpoint that there is a duality in how people live in the world, and that sometimes it is pressurized and it is a pressure cooker. So, wouldn't it be nice for your family when they come to your house this Christmas that we're not adding to that pressure cooker that we're taking off and letting the steam out and just letting them literally just live and be and happy to be. And if they and if they do come to your house, take it as a big sign that they feel really, really safe to come there. So make sure it's a safe space for them. So that that's kind of a very long-winded way of being saying just be kind and let people be. Yeah, but that's it's supposed to be the spirit of Christmas, isn't it?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, absolutely. And then my very last question for you, you've mentioned already some lovely uh Christmas traditions that you have. Yeah. That you set up. Do you have a particular favorite Christmas tradition?
SPEAKER_00:Um, I think the one I like the most right now is probably just the Christmas Eve one because the kids wait for it every year and it just it sets off the Christmas piece, we'll say, of like this is the way Christmas is coming. And then probably the other one is just when all is said and done, I've managed hopefully not to burn anything, which it would be unusual if I did I guarantee I'll burn something. I'm shocking cook. I'm sorry for my kids. I'll do the best I can. Um, but I think just watching them being happy and just the little bit of glint in their eyes when they see like Max going and he gets excited when he thinks that you know that the tower is coming from Santi on December 25th. I think I think that's the main piece, just to see that he's happy. Happy and healthy, I think is just the main thing, and that they're all around the table this year because you never know in any family circumstance. Sometimes this, you know, I always think, golly gets goose when I'm saying it, you never just know who'll be here this year, they mightn't be here next year. So just be happy that everyone's happy and healthy. And um, I think just that whatever Santi brings or doesn't bring that they're happy with what they had, and that I tried to make it special for them. So I think that's really it.
SPEAKER_01:Thanks so much for listening to the podcast. This is a conversation-based interview designed to stimulate thinking and hopefully support the development of practice. It's not intended to be medical or psychological advice. Views expressed in these chats may not always be the view of Middletown Centre. If you'd like to know more about Middletown, you can find us on X at Autism Centre, on Facebook and Instagram at Middletown Center for Autism. Go easy until next time.