Educator Burnout with Deirdre O'Shea

We talk with Deirdre O’Shea about educator burnout and why so many teachers are running on empty while being asked to deliver major change. We explore how space, compassion, and neuroaffirming practice can protect both staff wellbeing and autistic pupils’ experience of school.

Transcript

Welcome And Why Burnout Matters

SPEAKER_01 0:10

Welcome to the Middletown Podcast. I'm Kat Hughes, I'm a researcher at Middletown, and I'm also autistic. In today's episode, we're focusing on the experiences of educators. I'm joined by Deirdre O'Shea, case coordinator and specialist teacher with Middletown to talk about educator burnout. We talk about causes of burnout, how educators can support themselves if they're reframing their practice and feeling some discomfort in that uncertainty, and how they can build immediate supports to mind themselves. Deirdre's been on the podcast previously and she's always so compassionate and thoughtful. She's also entirely focused on neuroaffirming practices and creating an environment where both student and educator can thrive. I hope you enjoy our chat. Deirdre, it's it's so lovely to chat to you for the podcast. Um I suppose I wanted to start by talking about sort of the concept of burnout, and you've mentioned that it's something that increasingly you're you're seeing in educators, and educators are talking to you about. How is that manifesting for them?

SPEAKER_00 1:06

Yeah, it's such an interesting topic, Cash, something that is on my mind a lot at the moment. Um I think it's really important just to look at, you know, maybe uh firstly, just around maybe what what is burnout?

Defining Burnout Beyond Work

SPEAKER_00 1:21

You know, the World Health Organization really look at it through the lens of occupational stress, overwhelm, um, that impacts one's daily life and functioning and capacity to engage in their occupation. Um I don't look at that just through the lens of work, though. You know, our occupation could be lots of things that occupy our daily routine. Um so, you know, it's but there are probably many different interpretations of what burnout is. I'm really going to look at it today through the lens of educator overwhelm, educator distress, um, and educator capacity within our school systems. Um so I suppose what's being mirrored back to me at the moment as somebody who works in schools, who visits schools on a regular basis, who works with educators, um, is just a level of exhaustion and tiredness that I haven't that I haven't observed before. Um, and it has been building for quite some time. Um I know there's research to show that you know that that has been building post-COVID and that those uh sorry, it kind of kind of escalated post-COVID, but that it didn't um, or during COVID, should I say, but it didn't uh it hasn't reduced to pre-COVID levels. Um one of the things that I suppose if I go back to your question that stands out to me as well is just educate your capacity, even for maybe the changes that are being asked of educators, which let's be real is a lot. Um so is somebody going in to support educators to maybe implement recommendations um for a young person or to support a young person to access education, and that might require, you know, a shift in how we do things in the classroom, a shift in how we support that young person. I have to be quite careful with what I am asking of educators because the capacity within some just isn't at the level that one might expect. And I think it's important we're really compassionate to that.

The Data On Teacher Exhaustion

SPEAKER_00 3:43

Um I think it's uh really important to mention as well, Kat, that DCU published a study in 2025. Um, and I have some of the stats here, which I think are really helpful. Um, so there were a thousand primary and second level teachers across Ireland surveyed. Now, I don't know if this is across both mainstream and special school, um, but what it what it does reference is that 86% of the teachers reported a moderate to high level of burnout in terms of their personal life, and 85 reported high work-related burnout. I mean, that's a significantly high level. And they looked at what all the contributing factors were, and workload was one of the highest contributing factors. Um also um how supporting children with a special educational need, parental expectations, and organizational systemic issues. So this is something that it's just so important that we have to talk about. We have to talk about it in the context of these findings are really prevalent, but also in the context of how we support the young people that I work with who are autistic young children in our education system too.

SPEAKER_01 5:16

Yeah, absolutely. And it's that's an extraordinarily high figure, isn't it? Um and then This is one of the things that that has occurred to me, and it's something that I suppose I would hear most often from from people working in education or people just working with autistic people in general, is the the change in how we understand autistic experience and how we talk about autistic autistic experience. And has that change had sort of an impact on the the anxiety levels or or sort of stress levels that might be leading to burnout?

Inclusion Changes Without Enough Support

SPEAKER_00 5:52

I would imagine it is one factor. Well, not I would imagine, it absolutely is one factor. I think so. I just want to be clear in this podcast, we are not going to be able to cover in depth the reality of this conversation and what educators are carrying right now. But what is happening is educators are being asked to hold a lot. They're being asked to, you know, uh introduce curriculum changes. They are, you know, as our education policies are driven towards inclusion for all children in our education system, then educators are working in situations where that may not be properly resourced or they may not have the appropriate training or supports to implement education in their classroom as is being asked of them in 2026. So that's one factor. And then when I'm, for example, I'm going into a school and I do a lot of work on that mindset piece, it's really important that I am holding everything else that is being asked of that teacher or that SNA throughout the day or throughout kind of the you know, the general school year or within the system itself. So it's there's a huge piece, absolutely, where I think educators are being challenged to uh reflect and to you know look at their practices within the classroom. But that's just it's not an individual piece. It it relates so much to the wider system that they're working in. Um but if I if I just bring it back to the question that you asked around the shift that we are asking of educators in terms of how you know they deliver the curriculum, for example, to autistic children in their class, how we think about different communication styles, how we think about um, you know, even just flexible seating and alternative ways of learning within our classroom. That is a huge shift in how traditionally educators have been teaching young children in their classrooms. I would say in our special school settings, um, there is much more capacity within that system and flexibility that has been there historically in terms of how we support autistic young people. But in our mainstream classrooms, it is requiring a much bigger shift in approach. And that has to be viewed really even within our policies, in how we do things, in how we, for example, um support distressed behavior in the classroom. Do we look at that through a lens of, you know, traditional disciplinarian lens, or are we looking at it through communication and lens of what is this young person trying to communicate through their distress? Um, and I suppose within our mainstream settings, you know, traditionally teachers have maybe taught in a particular way, and now there's advice and guidance coming out to say, you know, this is how maybe this young person would benefit from learning, and it's how do we differentiate all these different ways within the classroom. Um and many educators can report that that is overwhelming. That that is you are asking somebody to completely unlearn ways that they were taught. And it is important that we continue to have that on top of the agenda, the unlearning process, but we also must be compassionate to what that takes and individually how that impacts each person. Um also a big piece in this conversation that's not talked about enough is are we providing educator with the space to unlearn, with the space to reflect on practices, with opportunities to share ideas with each other, to um, you know, to like this, I suppose it's a it's a big thing that comes up for me because I'm sitting in this place and in this space with educators all the time. I too am always on a journey or journey of unlearning and keeping my perspective open to new ideas, to new ways of thinking. Um, and I know how much space I have to create within myself for that, and at times how overwhelming it can be. Um and I think that's the part that's really tricky right now. There's a lot of kind of uh changes and recommendations and you know, kind of do this, do that, coming fast and furious at times from the top down without reflecting on the capacity that schools are at, what they're already dealing with on a day-to-day basis, and how you know, piling and piling and piling new recommendations and ideas um is not going to is not going to work. Um there needs to be a significant shift and workload um has to be a big piece within that as well, and creating space. Like the word, I can feel it in my body as I'm talking to you right now, just the need for space. And we will never be able to ask educators to make you know big shifts and changes in their classrooms without space for conversation. And let's be real here, Kat, a huge amount of the educators that are driving the mindset shift and changes within the system right now are doing this in their own time. You know, they're doing this in their own time. And I think it's really important that we name that.

SPEAKER_01 12:32

It is, it's it's astonishing to me the amount of work that people are putting into to make those changes in themselves and then within their classroom and then within the the broader sort of school if they can. Um and even knowing where to begin to find the information where you might relearn some of those things. Like it it all takes an awful lot of work. So I think it's it's so admirable that people are making those efforts to do that. It really is. And I think, as you say, it has to be acknowledged.

SPEAKER_00 13:04

Yeah, and I think I I want to name something here as well. For me, this process is a life, like it's a it's a it's an unlearning that can be embedded throughout your life. So I don't necessarily say that look, everything has to be done within work time, you know. I um but if if people are expected maybe to go to trainings and there's certain you know information that they absolutely need access to because in reality they're working with the children day in, day out. Um, we have to ensure that we are finding ways that this can be provided within our school time, within the uh you know, free freeing up time, I suppose. I know I'm kind of repeating myself here for maybe community of practice, um, looking at reviewing how our cookout park hours time is spent. And um I just feel at the moment there's a lot of like trying to pack things in and do this, do that, and just very little space for reflection, very little space for pause. Um, and one of the questions I often ask myself, even like, is my nervous system ready for you know what I'm asking of it right now? Um, and I think we very rarely ask that for our educators, you know, out there um doing the work day in, day out. And are we supporting that mindset shift? Because it's not an individual, this is collective. Um, so it has to be embedded within our policies, within trainings provided um from uh national organizations, it has to be embedded um in every level of you know, the circulars and policies. And um I think at the moment there is a bit of misalignment and mismatch, and the information that educators are being provided with is inconsistent. Um and I think again it's important to name that too, because there are educators reporting back to me that then they're experiencing huge overwhelm. Huge overwhelm with where do I start? What do I do? Which information is the right information? How do I understand if this is maybe medical model lens, or is this through a neuro-affirming lived experience lens? It's you know, it's there's there's just so much, and we can't expect educators to know and dissect all of that. So it has to be supported.

SPEAKER_01 15:44

Most definitely. And and I think also it's it's important to remember that it isn't necessarily like it's it's not sort of jumping in with two feet and having to have to to understand everything, completely reframe everything in one go. It's it's sort of chipping away at assumptions and and things that like for myself, like I've worked in I'm autistic, I've worked in autism research for years upon years. Um, and just in the last sort of year, I had a a really lucky opportunity to work with lots of autistic people from all over the world. And I learned so much about the assumptions that I had based on culture and and sort of just those different perspectives. And and to be able to embrace that to me was wonderful. But again, I had the space to do that. But I think, you know, none of us ever know everything. And it is about sort of chipping away at little bits, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 16:37

That's such a helpful point, Kat, because there is a judgment that's lingering out there at the moment um where educators are feeling judged if they don't know it all, if they don't know what it is that, you know, the person over here knows. It's we have to have compassion that we are all moving through this um at different stages. And some people will have had more opportunity, like you just described, you had an opportunity last year to expand your knowledge that somebody else may not have had. But again, this takes time and we have to be compassionate. It's never going to help an educator to shift their mindset or shift their practice if we come um at it with a judgmental lens. You know, some educators would report to me saying, Well, I was given all these recommendations and the person didn't hear maybe my concerns about them, or there was a there was a mismatch, and there wasn't that space to kind of to have it, to talk about it and and to for people to bring their um maybe yeah, their experiences, their fears, their capacity levels to the forefront in the conversation. Um so yeah, I just think meeting meeting with compassion, um, meeting with um each other in this situation with non-judgment is so important. But the big butt here now I'm going to come in with is we also can't lose sight of staying focused on change. Because also what's happening is people I think with overwhelm are also kind of stepping away, and I just can't deal with that right now. I don't have capacity. And yes, okay, it's okay to have a break and absolutely take time away from maybe trying to understand or process the change that's being asked. Um, but we it's not within our rights, I believe, anyway, to dismiss that. You know, this there's there's a shift in um what is being asked of educators in the classroom right now for a very important reason, and it is being led by lived experience research, and uh that is so important.

SPEAKER_01 19:15

Absolutely.

Power Dynamics And Student Voice

SPEAKER_01 19:16

And you you mentioned there the kind of the paradynamics that you experienced. Is that something that educators sort of can reframe for themselves, either paradynamics within the the school structure or within their work with students themselves?

SPEAKER_00 19:30

It's such an interesting question, Kat. I mean, when I think about paradynamics, you know, if I just think about it first in the context of the autistic children that I'm working with, many of the young people that I work with are like really struggle when they don't have a voice or their voice is not heard within the classroom, or this teacher-led hierarchy where there's potentially be a curriculum being delivered, and you know, the young person might see things in a different way, or maybe it's being presented, or the classroom structure or routine is being presented in a way that doesn't work for that child. That power hierarchy, that loss of autonomy, that loss of agency and choice can really distress or disregulate a child that therefore they may present in the classroom in a way that requires like additional support or like focused attention from that educator. So there's a lot that educators can do to minimize the energy they need to expend on potentially trying to support a co-regulated, distressed or dysregulated child by providing an environment where there is much more collaboration instead of control, much more choice and flexibility instead of like an adult-led agenda all of the time. And so sometimes I step into classrooms and everybody's energy is flat. Maybe an educator is already reporting to me that they're burnt out, and I look at how the classroom is operating, you know, I can understand how things have got to that point because there's this kind of push-pull going on where the child is trying to explain something through their behavior, maybe they're not being heard, it's not being understood, um, and and everybody is exhausted in that situation. Um, so I suppose the reflection here is just to think about is student voice central to um how the classroom operates? Do we even think about um uh like asking our students or finding a way to understand really what their experience is in our classroom? And just reflecting on the power. Dynamic that shows up just in that teacher-student relationship. You know, yes, we are there to support, to educate, to contain safe boundaries within the classroom, but we're not there to um be an authoritarian figure, to demand respect, to um, you know, be a put kind of in control. That's that's not our job, and I'm always conscious of those invisible power hierarchies that are there just by default of my job. You know, I'm very conscious how I dress and work, I'm very conscious how I show up to a young person who needs support. Um autistic children are very uh, I would say very wary of those power dynamics and power hierarchies for a reason. Um and and we need to just be mindful of that, it's not defiance, um, and there's so much that we can contribute to our own um energy levels, to our own well-being in school by really relaxing into that space of collaboration and partnership with the young people we support. But if I also think about this question in the context of hierarchies that exist within the school buildings, you know, I'm working with educators who are really trying to bring about change into their in their school environments. They are maybe you know uh showing some neuro farming practices, maybe offering, you know, some advice or resources to their colleagues. Um, and if that's not supported or if it's not being heard, that can be really exhausting for educators. So, you know, I've I've had a lot of educators report that to me in the last year or two, where they're really trying to, you know, bring about change or to be enthusiastic about it and motivate their colleagues to engage in reflective practice together, and they're not being met um with support. And that is yeah, I that's something that would be kind of concerning for me at the moment that you know, school leaders are possibly not reflecting on the impact of um those dynamics within within school settings and on how they can really impact educator motivation and fatigue. It's also really hard if someone is trying to implement new practice and it's not being supported from the top down, um, or they're you know coming up with a real creative way to deliver the curriculum and it's and it's not being understood or heard, and that those power dynamics and maybe the potential for somebody to override or you know have something to say about what you're trying to do can be really difficult as well. And I think it's just important that anybody listening to this does reflect on those power dynamics that um exist within their current environment and and what they can do to to reflect on that and reflect on on the impact, and stepping, you know, being aware of that power dynamic and really trying to step step out of it or you know, limit its impact in ways, um is a huge gift we can give autistic children to ensure that their voice, their way of learning, their culture, their communication style is being represented in education?

Holding Discomfort While Unlearning

SPEAKER_01 25:46

So it's something that we've talked about the whole way through is this sort of idea of reframing and taking that step back to think about how we do things. And I guess would you have any ways to support or sort of advice for people who are in that uncertainty and and don't quite know how to manage that, where they're challenging what they have known?

SPEAKER_00 26:15

Yeah, so if I look at this back to DC research and what has been kind of what has been uh identified as some of the contributing factors to burnout, and it's workload, parental expectations, supporting um pupils with additional educational needs. I see that everything, that reframing piece and is can can come under any of those um I suppose headings, because you might have a parent, for example, who's suggesting something that is maybe requiring you to reframe. You might have, you know, if the workload aspect is there, there could be a reframing element here, um, and and maybe reports that are coming in, or maybe visitors like myself coming into the school and and working in the classroom. Um so if it is bringing up discomfort um or is really hard to hold, that's the starting point. I think it's so important to practice self-compassion to say nobody has said that this is meant to be easy, actually. You know, and I don't think we name enough cat as well that it is okay to feel frustrated and it is okay to feel really uncomfortable with what is being asked. But the key here is that that doesn't, if you find yourself going back and blaming, you know, maybe the person who asks something of you, it's it's um, or you know, the workload that's coming in. This is not about blame. Um, I'm just gonna look at this through the through the a reframe lens now, okay? Not through all of the factors that are contributing to burnout. But the reframe lens, when it sh brings up a huge amount of discomfort, being with that discomfort and learning how to move that through your body in a way that works for you is important. And that's been a huge part of my process. Is you know, how do I hold this discomfort while also holding the reality that this reframe is needed? How do I hold this discomfort within myself, maybe about what is being asked, and this shift while also holding the reality that there's somebody voicing here who are saying that they were harmed by a practice that maybe I engaged in in the past in education. And that stress is important because it's important to recognize a name. And because if we don't find a way of working through that stress charge, it's gonna be stored in our body, it's gonna build up and it's gonna be held possibly as resentment or blame or um defensiveness or numbing out, and none of that is gonna be helpful for us in moving forward with what needs to change in our education system. So, you know, I know there's a lot of um, you know, there's kind of an increasing number of support groups out there for educators. I unfortunately, Kat, it has been driven from within. It's it's the system. Um, and and I say that unfortunately because again, it's it's asking the educators who are already exhausted to lead the change. And and that in itself is not helpful. But with a lot of educators who might have set up um maybe some groups, maybe there's some WhatsApp groups for, you know, for example, I know there's one for teachers who are um going to work in an autism classroom for the first time to get access to um supports um or maybe recommended groups or trainings. There's local communities of practice set up um in some areas, and I think that can be really helpful just from a social context, in terms of, you know, just having these conversations around, you know, this is something I'm finding really difficult. How are you navigating that? Um, I think one piece we're really missing in education is supervision. It's something I and mentoring, something I feel really passionate about. We're asking educators to hold a lot, but we're not giving um the uh appropriate space to process and digest that. Um but it it's just so important that we stay focused on you know where this mindset shift is coming from in terms of how we support um autistic young people in education and you know, then how do we build capacity within our schools, within our systems, within ourselves individually, um, for that change. But it goes back to what I mentioned at the start, Kat, that there's just a huge lack of space at the moment. And I see that as being essential. You know, let's go back to that figure. 85% of educators are reporting moderate to high work-related burnout. We have to address that.

Co-Regulation In High Stress Classrooms

SPEAKER_01 31:56

And then would you have any guidance for educators who are working in very high stress situations?

SPEAKER_00 32:02

Yeah, so interestingly, Kat, that's where I find myself a lot at the moment, um, where I'm supporting uh educators and young people who may be experiencing um high levels of distress within the classroom. And, you know, what we are asking of educators in those scenarios is to be a co-regulatory partner for that young person. But again, to be a co-regulatory partner for a young person in distress does require space within ourselves. Um, so a big piece, what's important for me to mention is we can absolutely work on the environment, work on the causes of distress, and work on the you know, strategies and supports that we can implement as educators um within the classroom to mitigate that distress happening or you know, to identify why that child is distressed. But if I just look at this for the purpose of the podcast through the lens of how to navigate that within yourself, it is important, again, goes back to recognize um if there's fear there, if um if you're really struggling, um maybe within your own capacity to navigate that, uh, it's important straight away that we name it, and that this is identified um, you know, imminently. And the reason I say that is it is not fair to the young person and it is not fair to the educator to keep going back into a situation where um there's no capacity for each other um because that's that's not going to benefit anybody. Um and and and it will keep that cycle of distress going for the child as well. So sometimes um, you know, within school leaders, uh, you know, conversations and within our as uh I suppose there needs to be a space provided for staff to say, I I pass, you know, I need a break, or I might need to step out for a couple of days, just replenish my energy to reflect, to pause, and before stepping back into this um, you know, difficult scenario as we as we support a child in distress. Um what I will say is really important is supporting our own well-being within the workplace has to take priority um when we are navigating situations where our body is processing a lot of stress charge. Um because what can happen is we can get stuck within our bodies um in that almost like fight-flight state, you know, that emotional contagion potentially being spread, you know, from the child to me and from to me back to the child. But if we get stuck there, that then means that we're coming to work every day, operating from that nervous system state, which is going to is a fast track to burnout. Um and I speak, cat from experience with this. I have been there myself in the past, in the early stages of my career, when I didn't have the skills to navigate or process that stress charge within myself, or it wasn't always a priority or spoken about in the workplace. So that's really important that these conversations have to take place and that there is space provided for a break or even for replenishment throughout the day. So I was working in a school um before where um there was building works going on at the time, and we set up a quiet space for the staff, and we ensured that there was a room and a space dedicated that was not going to be taken up um by anything else, um, and that it was dedicated for just time out, contemplation, rest, recuperation, time to process, maybe a personal conversation with a uh and a colleague. Um just away from the staff rooms. I I the staff rooms are busy places, they can be overwhelming with smells of dinners and microwaves beeping, and I don't see them as a therapeutic space. Um, so that to me was a game changer in this particular school um where staff uh were processing and uh digesting a lot of difficult things throughout the day. Um and there was frequently uh I just remember at the time a young person in distress, and it was just recognizing that sometimes we need to step out and we need to bring our body back into equilibrium or to give it what it needs to continue on with the rest of the day. And that piece is something that I very rarely see for our educators who are working in a high stress situation with a child who is distressed. Now, as I mentioned at the start, a big part of that work is also recognizing, you know, what do we need to adapt and change in our environment to support that young person in distress so that we are really recognizing the root cause of it, which is also important, well is is essential, um, so that we can minimize distress from occurring in the workplace or in the classroom in the workplace in the first place. Um but care for staff, if there's plans being written in to support young people um uh you know who are in distress, who are experiencing distress, a real key feature of that plan is also how the the staff support um is navigated within the school setting. And are there are there um is there space and time for debriefing um and just connecting after difficult experiences? And I very rarely see that. And this comes back to the key theme um that I'm noticing emerging throughout this conversation, and that is space.

SPEAKER_01 38:24

Um, and then my very last question for you. Um I always sort of like to try and think about, you know, if someone is at sort of the bottom of the mountain as they're listening to us today, and it can feel like you know, it's a very long way to the summit in terms of of sort of looking after themselves. So would you have sort of immediate ideas of what someone might do if they're either in burnout or feeling themselves heading towards burnout to just be able to mind themselves that bit?

Practical Anchors Sensory Needs And Joy

SPEAKER_00 38:54

Yeah, it it it's always such an important question. You know, and listen, Kat, I come I come at this through the lived experience lens, too, of um needing to take time out of work to recuperate. That was an important part because that's the level it reached for me. So if somebody is at the level where they feel that they absolutely are not functioning, that that is a risk to themselves and a risk to the young people they're supporting. So recognizing that time out um may be essential, I think is important to name. I also like to think of, you know, like what are the practical anchors that help you in every you know, day-to-day moments? And I say the word practical because we're often led to believe we have to go and invest huge money or sign up to gym membership and sign up to the latest class, and that's fine if that works for you. Um but you know, for me, like I'm sitting here with uh a mug that I really like with a cup of herbal tea that I like the taste of. I have a candle burning in front of me as we speak. They're really small things that I do to just help ground me. Um, I'm hugely grounded um through my senses. You know, I often have essential oils um carrying around with me, or I might leave one in the car. Because I'm on the road a lot. Actually, this what my car um is like is a really important practical anchor for me. Um so it's thinking about, you know, one thing that I didn't mention here, which is so, so important, is like having an understanding of your own sensory profile and how you experience the world through your senses, how your nervous system regulates, what feels good for you, and how do you weave that in throughout the day? And I think this is a really important part that is often misunderstood or not talked about enough in education. When we're talking about supports for young people, supports um, you know, that are going to be beneficial in the classroom around sensory regulation and flexible furniture and reduced visual clutter. This is all for the educators, too. You know, um it's so important that we reflect and ask or and or have that on the agenda in our staff meetings. What do we need? What do we need to support um ourselves? And and being very careful about tokenistic actual recommendations in our school environments about how we do well-being as a school team, because it's going to look different for every person, particularly um, you know, as our workplaces um, you know, become more diverse and different cultures and ethnic groups within our um workplaces. It's so important that we allow people to have agency with what that looks like for them. So really important one that comes up a lot is you know, educator well-being might be talked about in the in the uh staff meetings, and there could be a shift or a focus towards, you know, getting everyone back into the staff room and having a chat on your lunch break and connecting with each other. And yes, that could be important for some, but for others, actually stepping out into your car to decompress or eat your role by yourself after being in a very loud classroom environment might be what you need. Um, so it's recognizing that we will all have different needs and practical supports that will help us um navigate or mitigate um the buildup or early stages of burnout. And this is it's just important for leaders to recognize that and for us to recognize it within ourselves so that we don't, you know, that we don't uh feel that we have to go along with all of the maybe traditional suggestions that, you know, there are things that we might need to that we do, that we have to do for ourselves. Um so for example, for me, you know, again, when I think like I love to sing. So when I'm driving in the car, singing is actually really important for me. Um and then there are days when I'm just really tired, so it might be listening to like a predictable album, and that's not the day to put on a podcast. Around mindset shift, for example, because I'm I'm my energy is depleted and I don't have space to process that. So I need to replenish myself. Um I also think it's been, you know, reflecting on all the things that are being asked of educators and to look at like what's in my control right now, and what one thing can I focus on to make uh you know to implement change in my classroom. Maybe it's looking at a particular routine that you, you know, you've identified after this podcast that you now recognize as perhaps being too rigid. And maybe you start there and replenish yourself and work on your own practical supports as you navigate that process of change. Because if we're asking people and suggesting, you know, asking change and asking people to, you know, consider what it is that's contributing to burnout for them, well, then we need space for that. And we need space for that reflection, and we need space for people to voice their unique and individual needs, and then there needs to be space for conversations around okay, how do we navigate this as a school with many competing needs? And we need space to yeah, to process and digest all that we absorb. Um and so back to your question, I think again, this is an invitation for people to reflect on what that looks like for them. And my my question, you know, is it's it's reflecting on your own capacity. And as educators and leaders in education, reflecting, you know, through a trauma-informed lens of everybody's capacity and what all you know the different educators are carrying into the workplace that we may not know about. Um and can we hold space for all of that and be compassionate to each other in this process and focus on, you know, continue to focus on bringing joy, you know? I think it's an important piece we never um discussed here, um, focusing on the joy and the winds and the glimmers that absolutely are weaved throughout the day in in classrooms and that children can uh mirror back to us with their you know beautiful artwork or their uh you know creativity or playfulness or whatever way that they're expressing joy um in the classroom. Um and and can we can we actually like absorb that and and to feel it? Um sometimes you see again when we are so busy when there's no space for pauses, when there's no even internal space within, we can't even process the joy that's in front of us. Um and that's what that's what recuperates me, you know, and replenishes me. It's it's sometimes just sitting with the kids and saying, oh wow, you know, this it just allow whatever is being expressed in them right now to land within me. Um and you know, also coming back to what what are my needs um that are unique to me as as I navigate this day-to-day work yeah, I think you know it's it's it's a personal it's a personal invitation really, Kat, for educators to to reflect on what that looks like for them.

SPEAKER_01 48:09

Absolutely. And I I think as you say, that starting point of sort of understanding your own sensory profile is so fundamental and can be so life-changing and for myself. I I was entirely wrong in terms of how I understood my sensory profile. So when I really examined it, it just changed everything for me. And I think then not just I I almost think maybe it's a very sort of Irish perspective that we kind of limit then how we look after ourselves to the workplace because we're sort of thinking about being productive. But we should allow that in everything that we do if we can and sort of notice those moments everywhere.

SPEAKER_00 48:48

Absolutely. And I think it's important to name as well, even culturally, we have a tendency to really tune out of our bodies. And, you know, there's a huge amount of research on you know the interceptive sense at the moment, and you know, for autistic educators, how that might be a big challenge in the workplace of even recognizing some of what I talked about there and tuning into, you know, internally what's going on. Um and and and that can be a real challenge. But I think once it's in it's empowering people and educators to to really reflect and go on that journey within themselves. And and as a system, we need to support that. Um, it is life-changing. And this is how we this is how we care for those who care. You know, I want my children's teachers to be cared for. You know, when I think of it just even through the lens of a parent, my children are spending, you know, huge amount of their time in a space um with their uh educators or support staff. Um, I really care about how those educators are, um, because it's going to impact my children. Um, and it's it's so important that we really keep educator well-being um on the agenda. And um, even as a parent, when when working with our schools and and liaising, if I just think of it through the parent lens, I've been really compassionate too about everything that educators are holding right now. Because not every parent is aware of that. Um yeah, so it's it's a huge, huge topic, a cat. It it really is. And you know, I'm not sure in a time frame today, as I said, if we if you know that we could cover everything or do it justice. Um, but it's so important we talk about it and and navigate it. The research findings are there to show that. And, you know, it's as I said at the beginning, this is also being mirrored back to to mean the day-to-day work and and we have to do something about it as a collective.

Closing Thoughts And Disclaimer

SPEAKER_01 51:10

Thanks so much for listening to the podcast. This is a conversation-based interview designed to stimulate thinking and hopefully support the development of practice. It's not intended to be medical or psychological advice. Views expressed in these chats may not always be the view of Metal Town Center. If you'd like to know more about Middletown, you can find us on Facebook and Instagram at Middletown Center for Autism. Go easy until next time.