The Middletown Centre for Autism Podcast
The Middletown Podcast features interviews with leading thinkers and practitioners across the autistic and autism community. Conversations are autism-affirming and neurodiversity-informed with a focus on the lived experience and knowledge of our community. Episodes highlight issues impacting autistic people and we share ideas for family members and school staff who are providing support.
The Middletown Centre for Autism Podcast
Susan Madigan, OT: Practical Ways For Autistic Students To Reset For Term
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We have another episode with Clinical Specialist OT, Susan Madigan. Susan brings a wealth of knowledge through working with university students. This episode is for students who are heading back to college or university but are feeling some dread about it.
You can find out more about Susan's work here: https://www.susanmadigan.ie/
Welcome And Why This Matters
SPEAKER_01Welcome to the Middletown Podcast. I'm Kat Hughes, I'm a researcher at Middletown, and I'm also autistic. We have another episode with brilliant clinical specialist occupational therapist Susan Madigan. Susan brings a wealth of knowledge through working with university students. This episode is for students who are heading back to college or university but have a bit of dread about it. Susan chats about how you can kick things off on the right foot, avoid burnout, and find support because it can get better and it can get easier. I hope you enjoy our chat. Susan, it's lovely to chat to you again for the podcast. I so appreciate being able to pick your brain on all of this.
Why The Return Feels So Hard
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and this is actually a really good question because it's actually something I would see relatively often, even for people who really like college. The summer it's can be really difficult because again, people obviously autistic people who typically like routine. So again, people typically like the schedule of the semester and the term. So then when they get into the summer, that can be that can be kind of you know unstructured. Maybe they're working or not, but you know, it can be quite unstructured. But even though they dislike the summer, then it can be hard transitioning back in, right? So um, so shifting back from that summer routine back to college life. It's it requires immense energy to actually process that, think about that. Um and they want to go back to that routine of college, but the just the transition can be so challenging. So that's the first thing, just acknowledging that that's kind of on your mind and it's kind of tiring, you know, to be kind of worrying about that. Um, but I would say also that if people are kind of dreading it, that's information. And as autistic people, we really like information, right? So we're logging, okay. I'm dreading it. Okay, am I anxious? What am I anxious about? You know, we could learn something from that maybe. Is it the routine piece, the transition? Is it the sensory? You know, I like college, but yeah, like the sensory is a lot, the social piece, right? So maybe even processing a little bit, what am I most worried about? Um, but what I would say as well is that we want you here, you belong here. Um, and just because the transition back in can be hard, it doesn't mean you don't belong at college. Um, and as I said, you're absolutely an integral part of the college community. Um, so don't worry about coming back.
SPEAKER_01Lovely. That's so such a nice message for people to be thinking about. And are there things that people can do before they head back that can kind of prepare them for it?
SPEAKER_00Yeah,
Simple Prep Before Term Starts
SPEAKER_00definitely. And this is something that I actually work with a lot of people on because again, they'll be getting in touch with me kind of in August and be like, oh, you know, coming back, thinking about it's on my mind. So again, lots of things you can do to prep. Again, if you're living at home normally, just getting your, you know, getting the room tidy, if you have a desk in your room, getting the desk tidy, clearing it, making it feel safe, sensory, kind of suiting you. So again, if it's stuff accumulated in the summer or whatever, just getting it clean and clear. Um, and if you live normally live away from college or live live away for college, thinking about what's the minimum I need. Because again, a lot of people tend to bring loads of stuff, especially at the start of first year. Now you're not in first year anymore. If you have too much stuff, it's just more stuff to manage and more stuff to worry about. So, what's the minimum I need for like again, like the first four weeks or whatever? So, really thinking about the environment part first, because I think that's a good, like that's kind of a concrete thing that we can kind of actually work on. Um, re-establishing routines again, a lot of the people I work with would be getting on a nocturnal kind of schedule in the summer. They might be staying up quite late and then kind of getting up quite late, which you know, you couldn't blame anyone for it really. But again, like thinking about if you're gonna be back in, you know, nine o'clock lectures, things like that. So really thinking about could I work my routine back, like back to an earlier kind of timetable in the week, two week or two before college starts. Again, I know saying this, I'm talking about people who are 20, are they gonna do it? But look, this is the advice, okay? Um, try to kind of dial it back again a little bit so you're prepared kind of for getting to get into college. Um, keep an eye out for the timetable. So again, sometimes it's a few weeks before college, sometimes it isn't until day one. So sometimes it's not available, but keep an eye out anyway. Um again, if there is um a classroom or lecture theater that you've never been to before, it can be worth your while just going on campus even a few days before, just checking out where it is. Because again, you know, you don't want to be trying to look for it when the campus is mobbed, everyone's coming and going, you're running late. So it's it is worth it just to check the timetable and get on campus ahead of time if you know, if that suits, if if that's possible. Um and something that I have worked with a few people on is scripting social interactions a little bit. So again, some people have made great friends, some people more acquaintances, either way. Uh even with people that you feel are close friends, it can feel, you know, you haven't seen them maybe for three months, so it can feel a bit awkward a little bit. So thinking about what might I talk to people about? Um, what are some scripts I can work off of? What are common things people might be talking about? What how can I explain my summer? You know, just practicing that a little bit, even practicing with a family member. Again, it's not that we have to be acting neurotypical, but more that that might make someone feel more safe and secure if they've practiced that a little bit. So loads of things you can do ahead of time.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's such a good idea. And it is, as you say, it's not that we're suggesting that someone create a script that isn't their own thoughts and their own experience. It's just sort of having that information ready to go. Because I know for me, I always say that my brain is like a sort of a snow globe. So if someone asks me something, it it the snow globe is shaken and I have to wait for it all to fall to the bottom before I have a thought of how to respond. But if I have something kind of prepared, it's ready to go. And it just makes it just something, it's uh one less thing to worry about, I think.
SPEAKER_00Exactly.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. That makes a lot
First Weeks: Reconnect And Get Supports
SPEAKER_01of sense. And are there things that students can do sort of in the first few weeks when they're back to to ease themselves in?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, again, I think reconnecting with people is good, as in like because sometimes people be like, oh, well, I I wasn't in touch with people over the summer. Oh, that's it now, you know. But I most people are the same. Like a lot of people haven't been in touch with people over the summer. So can just be reconnecting with people and say, Oh, are you around for a cup of tea? You know, it doesn't have to be a a big um, you know, uh a big night out or something. It's just gently reconnecting with people. Um and again, that could be even with a club or society as well. So again, oh, is the time is it still on a Tuesday at five o'clock? Okay, I'll go along. So again, just gently putting the feelers out without overwhelming yourself. Um, making sure you have access to the timetable, like I said, and all the virtual learning environments. Sometimes, again, sometimes there's just a glitch and you get left off a list, or there's some network, you know, IT glitch, and suddenly you don't have access to your email, you don't have access to whatever. Contact student services as soon as possible. Don't assume it'll just resolve itself. Um, go and talk to someone to get it unglitched. Um, and that is more common than you might think. Um, and then as well, consider contacting disability services. If you're a returning student, um, you'll all you're like you're already registered, and so you don't need to like re-register, but like what if you registered um but didn't use any supports? Or you registered, did use some supports, but now you're like, oh, did that actually work? You could just go and have a conversation. Or if you never registered, you could think about, well, how did last year go? Could I have used some supports? Um, you know, so you could consider getting some accommodations if you want. Again, you can go in on the first day of first year, second year, third year, final year. We'd have had people registering even in the last term of final year. That's grand. You know, anytime is a good time for us. But but if you want exam accommodations, there is deadlines for that. So you just gotta try and hustle in in the first uh four to six weeks of term if it's for an exam accommodation.
SPEAKER_01Brilliant. And are there things then that a student can do to kind of plan their day a bit better to avoid sort of burnout and overwhelm? Because
Plan Your Day To Avoid Burnout
SPEAKER_01I know like it it it sort of naturally is kind of overwhelming in a way.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, exactly. Even for someone who like likes their course, you know, it's working reasonably well for them, it's still tiring, you know. For autistic people, everything is tiring, you know. So we're getting burnt out easily, we're getting into shutdowns easily. So exactly, especially if you're a returning student, you sort of know, like, you know, the layout, like you literally know that you know the campus, but also the kind of general structure of the day. Oh, like I would always be tired after that lab or that, you know, that kind of thing, something like that. So again, thinking ahead a little bit, and then thinking about definitely planning your escapes, like so identifying quiet zones um or quiet areas, even um just for the DCU heads, um, the business cafe um was a really quiet, like very quiet cafe that you could go to, um, or that kind of thing. So knowing having one or two spots that you know you can kind of just get a little break during the day, essential. And then I suppose with that creating a schedule that works for you. So this is one probably one of the most challenging things. And I, you know, it's funny because I suppose when I went to college, again, like, you know, the freedom for me after being in a in a very strict kind of you know, girls' school, uh, the freedom of college was like, I mean, it was like night and day. And to me, you know, if I had a class at 10 o'clock and then a class at four o'clock, that was like I have five hours to drink tea and talk to my friends. That to me was like, that was like gold, you know, that was fantastic. But I understand that for other autistic people or even for younger people today, really challenging for them to manage those gaps in the day, super challenging. Um, and something's even more since COVID, I noticed for people, they would say, Well, I don't know what to do, or like that. If they had a 10 o'clock class and a four o'clock class, they might they might just not go to the 10 o'clock and come in for the four, or vice versa, they come in for the 10 and then just go home because they don't know what to do for that time. So that's something. So again, looking at the timetable and looking at those gaps, where can I take a break? So just a break break, but where could I study? Because again, we're talking about um, you know, a lot of us be very exhausted by the end of the day. So if we could use our day well, you then we don't have to worry about, you know, working on assignments or whatever in the evening. And again, if unless you're doing science or something, they're very heavy schedules. Um, but if you're doing just a more of a low, low uh low hours course, like you do have gaps, and that can be a time to work on an assignment, go to the library or just an empty classroom. Don't have to be the library if the library's too busy or too, you know, too noisy, and using that time, treating um your schedule like a nine to five and and getting your work done during the day so you're not then getting home exhausted. Oh, now I have to start doing an assignment, or now I've start writing a lab report when you're exhausted. So trying to use the time well, but I know it is challenging. I think it's really challenging for the autistic brain to work out what to do in those gaps, but again, you can create that schedule for yourself. Like every Tuesday, I have a four-hour gap. So I go for a little walk in the park that's beside the college, and then I go to you know, quiet cafe and I work on my laptop for three hours, and that's my day. Do you know? So, really, you can create that day for yourself. Um, and if you're a returning student, you probably know again some of the quiet places or some of the good places to work, um an out-of-the-way library or something like that. And again, some campuses do have autism specific um spaces, like UCC has a lovely space that you can work in, and it's just for autistic students. Um, and other campuses might have, you know, uh similar um uh kind of sensory spaces or quiet spaces.
SPEAKER_01Brilliant. You've you've you've awakened a memory for me. I remember I had like a really early class, a really early seminar, and then a lecture in the evening, and I would I would get the bus home. So I would I would get the bus, be home for like half an hour, and then come back to college. And it was just the worst waste of time. But I did not know what to do with myself.
SPEAKER_00But that's exactly it. And like the thing is that's so tiring though, as well. Like you've got the you've got in, you've got the bus, sensory nightmare, got in, done a class, back on the bus, back in on the bus again. Like it's it I can understand why people do that, but it's it's not the best strategy because the overwhelm, the sensory nightmare of being on the bus in and out, you're exhausted now. So you're exhausted by the time you come in for the second class. And really, could you have planned the day in a way that might have suited you a bit better? And again, depending on your campus, like if you're in somewhere like TUD or uh Trinity, you're in the city center of Dublin. There's plenty of places you can go that you know, you don't have to literally stay on campus if you don't want to. You could go to a cafe, you could go to a library, something like one of the public libraries, and just work, you know, in peace um without exposing yourself to have to go the public transport multiple times and just run yourself ragged. I needed you, my friend, Susan.
Disclosure, Masking And Self-Accommodation
SPEAKER_01And do you find that the way that students feel about their their diagnosis and their autistic identity kind of impacts um how they manage their their time in university?
SPEAKER_00Yes, I I have noticed that um in a couple of ways. I think the first way is kind of what I alluded to already, as in I think if people are um worried or nervous of people knowing that they might be neurodivergent, they might not use services or you know supports that would be available to them. Not even disability supports necessarily, even the general supports. They might be very cautious of people to know. Um and again, that's obviously that's completely their choice, that's their personal information, but it can mean that they're not availing of supports that they might need and might need like very seriously. And I suppose the other bit is around just generally disclosing, like so with friends or you know, um in in if it's a group in a club or a soccer or whatever. I think that when people disclose their neurodiversity, their neurodivergence, their neurotype, um, it can open up the permission for you to accommodate yourself. So it might mean, well, I don't go to every night out uh or whatever, but I, you know, again, I choose how I kind of engage with stuff. It doesn't mean I don't socialize, it doesn't mean I don't spend time with friends or engage with my interests, but it means I can choose those things without people going, oh, why isn't Sarah going to that now again or whatever? Because if you've disclosed to people, then there's a framework for that. And and you know, you you know what's going on, they know what's going on, and you can accommodate yourself better. Um, you can be yourself, maybe less masking. Um, and I think that that's not for everyone, but I think any way that you can safely maybe mask a little bit less is going to be good for your health and well-being. And I suppose the flip side of that then is people who don't, again, obviously their personal choice, but some people are really highly masking throughout the day. And again, it's exhausting.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely. And then my very last question for you um if a student is really struggling and they need help, what should they do?
What To Do When You Need Help
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so I suppose I have two ways of looking at this. I think if someone is struggling and they need really need help, they should they can do one of two things. Talk to the person that's close to them, closest to them, as in that could be a friend, it could be a parent or or like an aunt, you know, something like that who they feel comfortable to talk to. Um look, this is what's going on with me. What should I do? Now, sometimes though it's easier to talk to not a stranger, but you know, someone in the student services, something like that, where it's a bit more neutral. And if you feel like you've something serious to say, you don't want like a parent to freak out immediately or whatever. You can talk to someone non who's non-judgmental, neutral in the student services. We have heard it all before. You like you cannot shock us. We have heard everything, we have seen everything. You can go to any office, you know, in in your college, in the student kind of services area, you wander into careers or counseling or health, they will either help you themselves or they will like direct you or tell you which office you need to go to. You can you can phone, you can email, you can go in person. As I've said, uh, well, I haven't said, um, but the college services, we're not in it for the glamour, guys. We really want to help students. Like, honestly, we live for helping students. And as you touched on, Cash, like having an occupational therapy support um can change someone's life. That's what we're there to do. We are there to support people a hundred percent. And like I said, you can't shock us, so you can tell us anything. Um, and again, okay, yeah, the services are sort of nine to five, Monday to Friday. That doesn't suit every single situation, but we are absolutely there to support people.
SPEAKER_01Thanks
Closing Notes And Where To Find Us
SPEAKER_01so much for listening to the podcast. This is a conversation-based interview designed to stimulate thinking and hopefully support the development of practice. It's not intended to be medical or psychological advice. Views expressed in these chats may not always be the view of Middletown Center. If you'd like to know more about Middletown, you can find us on Facebook and Instagram at Middletown Center for Autism. Go easy until next time.