The Middletown Centre for Autism Podcast
The Middletown Podcast features interviews with leading thinkers and practitioners across the autistic and autism community. Conversations are autism-affirming and neurodiversity-informed with a focus on the lived experience and knowledge of our community. Episodes highlight issues impacting autistic people and we share ideas for family members and school staff who are providing support.
The Middletown Centre for Autism Podcast
Rightful Presence and Inclusion - Ruth McCausland and Finola McElhatton
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A pupil walks into a classroom and instantly scans for one thing: am I safe to be myself here? That simple question sits underneath everything we explore with Middletown colleagues Finola McElhatton and Ruth McCausland as we dig into what inclusion really means and why “rightful presence” raises the bar even further.
We talk about what happens when autistic students aren’t included, worries that educators might have and advice for school staff who want to create a safe environment for everyone.
Welcome And Guest Introduction
SPEAKER_01Welcome to the Middletown Podcast. I'm Kat Hughes and we're searching at Middletown, and I'm also Autistic. In this episode, I chat to two wonderful Middletown staff members, Vanilla McAlhattan and Ruth McCausland. They both have lots of experience supporting autistic students who are struggling within the education system, as well as supporting educators and family members to understand those students and provide support. We chat about all things inclusion and rightful presence. We talk about what happens when autistic students aren't included, worries that educators might have, and advice for school staff who want to create a welcoming environment for everyone. Othinola and Ruth share very practical, compassionate thoughts on the topic. I loved having a chance to pick their brains. I hope you enjoy our chat.
Defining Inclusion And Rightful Presence
SPEAKER_01Oh Ruth Opinola, it's lovely to chat to you for the podcast. I said I want to start with a very big question. So how do you define inclusion and rightful presence?
SPEAKER_00Hi Gert. I suppose I always say inclusion isn't a place, it's a feeling. So for me, inclusion is that moment when a child, a young person walks into classroom and thinks, I belong here exactly as I am. Not because they've masked well enough, or not because adults have made them fit into an existing mould, or even that they've squeezed themselves into a mould that wasn't built for them, but because the environment is flexed to meet their needs. And then there's rightful presence, which takes it a step further. This idea that every child or young person has an unquestioned right to be in that space. Their presence isn't conditional. It's not as long as they behave or as long as they cope with the noise, not as long as they don't disrupt other learning. Their presence is a given. The conversation becomes how do we shape this space so it works for them instead of how do we shape them so they work for us. I guess it's a shift from permission to entanglement. And honestly, once you see it that way, you can't unsee it.
SPEAKER_02I think that's a great way of defining it, Ruth. For me, similarly, inclusion isn't forced. It isn't a special week or a month, but it's valuing every single person, every single day. And it's not only important for our schools, but so important for our communities too. I'm so passionate about rightful presence because I feel that sometimes it's forgotten that as educators, we're responsible for supporting every single child or young person in our classes. We see so many kids spending their school day outside their classroom, and that's the key phrase. It is their classroom. A classroom isn't for the teacher, but for that group of children or young people, and it should reflect their needs, their preferences, strengths, interests, and their personalities. Even as professionals visiting schools, some really feel like a home from home. And I find they tend to be the places where inclusion is working really well.
SPEAKER_01Gorgeous.
When Inclusion Fails And Why
SPEAKER_01And then I suppose speaking of inclusion working, where inclusion isn't working, what is the the impact of that?
SPEAKER_00Oh, I think you can feel it. When inclusion isn't working, the atmosphere changes. You can feel it in the air. The child, young person start shrinking themselves. You can see masking, exhaustion, withdrawal. Some children and young people go quiet, others go loud. Both are communication, both are saying this environment isn't built for me. And staff feel it too, I feel like teachers become stretched, frustrated, and sometimes even defeated or worried that they're getting it wrong. The classroom becomes a place of tension instead of curiosity. The biggest impact though is on identity. When a child, a young person repeatedly experiences environments that don't fit them, they start to internalize the idea that they are the problem. And that's heartbreaking because it's the opposite of inclusion. It's exclusion dressed up as trying our best.
SPEAKER_02I agree with Ruth. It's a real feeling and it's so emotionally connected. And for me, I think serious distress really comes through for the children and the young people. I'm the first to say that I'm not a mental health professional, but over time I feel there's a massive impact on mental well-being for children and young people, feelings of otherness, loneliness, isolation. And sadly, I've also seen that self-loathing piece and anger stemming from feelings of exclusion. So it has very serious consequences for children and young people and how they feel about themselves. In saying that, I would also acknowledge the ripple effect on the support in adults, too, who might be feeling unsure of how to adapt or change school culture. And they might be finding themselves trapped in a cycle of reacting to the stress instead of proactively planning to reduce it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that makes a huge amount of sense because I think because it is a full environment, it's about creating an inclusive environment. So it makes sense that that has a ripple effect to everyone in the school. And then so much of your job is about sort of supporting schools to create that inclusive environment.
The Real Worries Staff Carry
SPEAKER_01Have you found that there are particular kind of challenges or worries that schools and school staff might have around that?
SPEAKER_00I've heard I suppose every worry and challenge under the sun, and they're all completely understandable. There's a classic, what if I don't have a skills? And I always say the fact that you're asking that question tells me that you care deeply. And that's really the best starting point. Then another one, what if a classroom becomes unmanageable? I guess there's this this myth that inclusion equals chaos. In reality, inclusion usually reduces the stress responses because children and young people aren't fighting the environment. And another big one is what if other students miss out? This one comes up a lot. But inclusive practice benefits everyone. Predictable routines, sensory aware spaces, visual supports, these help your typical learners too. And then the quiet worry what if parents question what we're doing. Staff staff sometimes fear being judged. But from my experience, once families understand why, they often become your biggest allies. Underneath all these worries is one truth. Teachers want to do right by their students. They just need permission, tools, and time.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, permission is such an important word in relation to that, isn't it? Yeah, that's really lovely. And what about yourself and all that?
SPEAKER_02I think that's such an empathetic response from Ruth, and it's so important for schools to know that we do understand as well. We know that change isn't always comfortable, and with the pressures of teaching nowadays, it can be easily perceived as overwhelming to change our practice or to do things differently. It also takes time to see the impact that you're having. And in our role, we support schools and families to try things, to evaluate, to reflect, and just to try and try again. And that's so important. And it really is everybody, whether that's your school governors, your maintenance staff, and the pupils. It's great now that we have programs like Lean's, which can teach difference and diversity from a young age, so that hopefully we will have a more inclusive society in years to come.
SPEAKER_01That's lovely. I love I love that concept of it takes a village, definitely.
Small Changes That Transform Schools
SPEAKER_01And what are some examples of rightful presence and inclusion really working that you've seen?
SPEAKER_00I've seen inclusion done beautifully. And the best examples were never flashy. They're always human. Honestly, some of my favourite moments come from post-primary. Teenagers are brilliant at showing you what inclusion really feels like when it's done well. One was flexible participation. I remember a year twelve student who absolutely froze during whole class discussions. A brilliant thinker. So the teacher introduced three equal ways to contribute speaking, uh typing into a shared padlet or sending a short voice note afterwards. The magic was that none of these options were treated as a special autistic workaround. They were just uh options uh within a few weeks he is contributing more than ever because his presence wasn't conditional and performing in a way that felt unfair. He was allowed to show up as a was around movement options in PE. PE can be a sensory minefield in post-primary. If you think Whistles shouting team dynamics, unpredictable movement. One school created a movement menu for students who find traditional supports overwhelming. Things like walking laps, resistance bands, yoga or sensory circuits. Students weren't pulled out or hidden away. These options were part of the main P offered. Suddenly autistic students, anxious students, and honestly half of rugby team using the resistance bands or the yoga options on a Friday morning. Rightful presence meant everyone was allowed to move in the way it needed. Another was required social spaces. One post-primary school turned an unused ICT room into a canned social space. Soft lighting, green bags, quiet games, no pressure to chat. It became this gorgeous little community. Statistics students used it to regulate. And so did loads of neurotypical students. They just preferred a quieter vibe. And the better part, it wasn't framed as the S E N room. It was just another social option. That's rightful presence when the students don't have to justify needing camp. Alternative settlement I'm thinking of a year level student I worked with, they simply couldn't do timed exams. Not wouldn't, couldn't uh her nervous system just shut down. The school worked exam board to create coursework-based alternatives and provided extended time in a quiet room for the parts that she could manage she ended up achieving qualifications that reflected her ability, not anxiety. That's rightful presence. The system flexing so the student doesn't break. And yet another one was around predictable transitions between classes. Secondary corridors can feel like a sensory assault course. We know that. One school introduced a visual journey board for the whole year group. Showing movement times, corridor expectations, and sensory of uh statistics students who previously dreaded transitions, didn't hit clarity and control. And the staff notice camera corridors too. And general sense of we're all moving together. Rightful presence meant the school changed environment, not the students. And in these ways, rightful presence looks like small shifts that create big safety.
SPEAKER_01That's gorgeous. And I think every single one of those I would have benefited from when I was in school. Every single one. That's brilliant. I wonder about yourself another.
SPEAKER_02It's lovely to hear all of those examples, Ris, and really endearing to hear. I had a standout moment for me recently, and to me it just felt like a real sense of community. So I had the joy of supporting a primary school, and they were so grateful to have support from Middle Town. And a lovely example from that setting was one of the pupils would often feel annoyed if they arrived in late in the morning and they had missed the hymn at School Assembly. So whenever they arrived late, everyone sang the hymn again. And it was a small thing, it only took two minutes, and it made a massive difference for how that child's day would go. Within that setting, they were also really honest and reflective as a staff. They acknowledged the pressures that they were under in terms of delivering the curriculum, but they saw the benefit of questioning how can I incorporate interests and strengths into our lessons? How can I support this young person to experience success at school? And when they saw the impact of making those changes, they were just too delighted to see a young person engaging with curriculum staff and their peers, and most importantly, feeling happier at school.
SPEAKER_01That's gorgeous. And they're they're all they're all really moving examples, I think, that you both gave, but they're all examples of just sort of little tweaks. They're not massive things that have been done, which I think is is so helpful to remember and kind of encouraging
Practical Advice And UDL Tools
SPEAKER_01to remember. And is there advice that you give to school staff who are hoping to sort of create a more inclusive environment for their students?
SPEAKER_00My biggest advice would be to start small, start human and start curiosity. Listen to the students' lived experience. They are the experts in their own nervous system. Make the environment flexible before you make the student flexible. Adjust lighting, noise, seating transitions. These are low cost, but high impact. Normalize differences. If one student uses visuals, make visuals available to everyone. If one child needs movement, put movement into the day. Don't diagnose. For example, ask what's a barrier here and how can we remove it instead of how do we fix this behavior and celebrate progress but not perfection. Inclusion is a journey. You don't need to overall a whole school overnight. Honestly, be brave enough to try things. The most inclusive classrooms I've seen weren't perfect. They were experimental, responsive, and full of heart.
SPEAKER_02I'm just here endorsing everything that Ruth's saying. It's fantastic. But I'm totally with you in that the pupil voice is so powerful. It's their school, it's their classrooms. And ensuring that we're collecting pupil voice in a way that supports all forms of communication and ensures that every voice is heard is really important for inclusion. And not only is it positive for schools, but what an empowering experience for learners to feel that their schools really care about them and are committed to having a school for all. For staff teams, I advise making time for reflection and considering how inclusive are we as a school, also thinking what do we do well? But in true UDL fashion, I would ask, what are the barriers to inclusion here and how do we overcome them? I think the UDL guidelines from CAST are a great tool for problem solving. Claire Evans is a wonderful educator currently working with ETI here, and she has used UDL to make communication more accessible and inclusive, starting with her staff in her previous school setting. So I would recommend looking at Claire's work, and she will be speaking at the Northern Ireland Inclusion Symposium on the 24th of September. So keep an eye out for those recordings if you can't attend.
SPEAKER_01Perfect. Thank you so much.
Closing Thoughts And Where To Find Us
SPEAKER_01Thanks so much for listening to the podcast. This is a conversation-based interview designed to stimulate thinking and hopefully support the development of practice. It's not intended to be medical or psychological advice. The views expressed in these chats may not always be the view of Middletown Center. If you'd like to know more about Middletown, you can find us on Facebook and Instagram at Middletown Center for Autism. Go easy until next time.