SPEAKER_01: Hello, welcome to Sexual Heroes.
SPEAKER_01: And today I have Hades Haileah, also known as Hades Amun Ra.
SPEAKER_01: Is that right?
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's Amun Ra and also known as the PUP Hades.
SPEAKER_01: Hades is a photographer, content creator, community advocate, and title holder, serving as Mr.
SPEAKER_01: Mr.
SPEAKER_01: Kink2026.
SPEAKER_01: Hades is a passionate educator and advocate dedicated to fostering safer, more inclusive spaces through conversations about consent, diversity, mental health, and community accountability.
SPEAKER_01: His work frequently highlights the experiences of kinky, queer people of color, encouraging others to embrace their identities unapologetically and build meaningful connections through vulnerability and storytelling.
SPEAKER_01: As Mr.
SPEAKER_01: Mr.
SPEAKER_01: Kink 2026, Hades champions the title's core values of education, mentorship, outreach, advocacy, and kink visibility.
SPEAKER_01: Through fundraising, community events, educational programming, and creative projects, he works to strengthen and uplift the leather and kink communities while supporting organizations that promote health, wellness, and equality.
SPEAKER_01: That's all.
SPEAKER_01: And that is why you're here today.
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
SPEAKER_00: I'm excited to be here.
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for having me.
SPEAKER_01: I'm excited.
SPEAKER_01: And I'm a little bit nervous about this because I haven't done a podcast interview in a while.
SPEAKER_01: So bear with me.
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: We'll we'll get through it together.
SPEAKER_01: My audience needs to bear with me.
SPEAKER_01: You and I are friends, right?
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
SPEAKER_00: Yes, recent friends, but friends.
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
SPEAKER_01: That would have been awkward if you said no.
SPEAKER_01: No, I don't know you.
SPEAKER_01: This is weird.
SPEAKER_01: We've known each other probably for about six months.
SPEAKER_01: Right.
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, just about.
SPEAKER_01: Because I think the commonality that brought us together was our both of our our interest in the in putt-play.
SPEAKER_00: And yes.
SPEAKER_00: I was trying to think of like I was trying to remember because I have the memory of a goldfish, but I was like, where did we meet?
SPEAKER_00: And it was it was it was gay pride in Palm Springs.
SPEAKER_00: That's where we initially met.
SPEAKER_00: I was trying to remember.
SPEAKER_00: Okay, right.
SPEAKER_00: I was like, who is this sexy pup?
SPEAKER_00: Like, I have not seen this person around.
SPEAKER_00: Right.
SPEAKER_00: And then I hardcore flirted flirted and it didn't go anywhere.
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I'm I'm glad that we're friends at least.
SPEAKER_01: Okay, well, I I do want to confess to something, and this happens when I'm researching guests from time to time who are content creators.
SPEAKER_01: I was looking over your content, and I was looking at you in your hubby having sex.
SPEAKER_01: Oh, and I I may have accidentally masturbated.
SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_00: Accidentally.
SPEAKER_00: As long as it was by accident.
SPEAKER_00: You know what's so funny?
SPEAKER_00: I have people that will message me and they're like, oh, I was scrolling through blue sky and I started jerking off to this point, and then I realized it was you.
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Oh, so you were accidentally like you didn't go fine, you know.
SPEAKER_01: Well, this wasn't quite an incident, I guess.
SPEAKER_01: Uh it's okay.
SPEAKER_01: I'm here for it.
SPEAKER_01: Can you talk a little bit because this is sexual heroes and you are a content creator?
SPEAKER_01: Can you just share with the audience like some of your main kinks?
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
SPEAKER_00: Well, filming is what got me into being a content creator.
SPEAKER_00: Filming is one of my kinks.
SPEAKER_00: I I had a couple of ex-boyfriends that we would just get in front of the camera and you know, film our dirty deeds.
SPEAKER_00: And I I would share them with other people that I was interested in.
SPEAKER_00: And some of them would make the comment, like, well, why aren't are you do you have an OnlyFans or do you have a Jess for fans?
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, no.
SPEAKER_00: They're like, why not?
SPEAKER_00: You can make money.
SPEAKER_00: I was like, that's a that's a good point.
SPEAKER_00: So I started to post some of my encounters.
SPEAKER_00: And uh what really pulled me more into creating content was public cruising, which you can't really do nowadays.
SPEAKER_00: You can't do because of all the requirements for release forms and you know, you know, uh consent forms and which you can't, you know, pass a form underneath the stall and say, can you fill us out and get their copy of their ID and whatnot.
SPEAKER_01: But um it would definitely be a boner killer.
SPEAKER_00: It would be, it would be, I I it'd actually be kind of funny.
SPEAKER_00: I kind of want to go cruising now to just bring up paper form and slide it underneath and just see what that person's reaction is.
SPEAKER_00: Right.
SPEAKER_00: But but then it kind of got banned.
SPEAKER_00: It was at first banned on like on OnlyFans.
SPEAKER_00: OnlyFans started to really cut into any sort of public content, BDSM content.
SPEAKER_00: And so but water sports, so water sports, anything that was very kinky, OnlyFans was like, this is not the platform anymore for it.
SPEAKER_00: So that really slowed me down as a creator.
SPEAKER_00: But and and I got my start in Denver, and I then moved here to Palm Springs, and I thought, oh, I, you know, Palm Springs, there's all these content creators out here.
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna be like super busy.
SPEAKER_00: And I just kind of you know recessed into other projects.
SPEAKER_00: And so although I'm still creating content with other creators, I don't post as frequently as I used to.
SPEAKER_00: And I'm trying to get back into that.
SPEAKER_00: I think that for for a while it started to feel like work and it started off as fun, and so I'm trying to reconnect with that side, the fun side and the the thrill that comes with sharing.
SPEAKER_01: That's nice of you.
SPEAKER_00: That's nice, sweetheart.
SPEAKER_00: Okay, next question.
SPEAKER_01: Uh you said there's a lot of content creators here.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
SPEAKER_01: As they say, you can't swing a cat by the tail without hitting a content creator here.
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
SPEAKER_01: And like realtors and nurses.
SPEAKER_00: Oh, wait.
SPEAKER_01: Oh.
SPEAKER_01: I think I was both of those too.
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00: I was one of them, at least.
SPEAKER_01: We also have a lot of international Mr.
SPEAKER_01: Leathers here.
SPEAKER_01: We do.
SPEAKER_01: The past two.
SPEAKER_01: I just wanted to give them a shout out.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: Oh, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00: Renee Herbert, who is last year's international Mr.
SPEAKER_00: Leather, and Mr.
SPEAKER_00: Palm Springs Leather, and Honey Davenport, who is the current IML, and Mr.
SPEAKER_00: Palm Springs Leather.
SPEAKER_00: It's amazing.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_01: All right.
SPEAKER_01: So in your bio, you talk about being a photographer, content creator, community advocate, title holder, educator.
SPEAKER_01: When I took when I got the bio from you, I was expecting to see the word advocate, or I'm sorry, activist.
SPEAKER_01: And surprised not to see that.
SPEAKER_00: Is was that purposeful or you know, I feel like yes, I I would consider myself to be an activist.
SPEAKER_00: I feel like a lot of my activism is through these other channels.
SPEAKER_00: It's not like I I can't, I think the last time that I went to like a rally or something like that, or you know, I did a public speaking of some sort.
SPEAKER_00: Well, actually, public speaking, we can get back to that later, but was during the the George Floyd protests.
SPEAKER_00: And what I encountered, and this is not speaking negatively about anybody who participated, but there was a lot of performativity in that in that sense of activism, where it's like, oh, well, people are they're ready to go out on the streets and and during during this upset.
SPEAKER_00: But afterwards, when it when things cool down, that sense of activism dissipates.
SPEAKER_00: And so my activism is through advocacy, my activism is through education and bringing awareness to subjects that matter to me.
SPEAKER_00: And and also platforming other people that are doing the work.
SPEAKER_00: That's what where my activism work lies now.
SPEAKER_00: And so I think there's a certain depiction when when when you use the word activist, people get like, oh, this person's like speaking out, they're on their soapbox, they're marching in the streets, and that's just not a clear picture of what I do.
SPEAKER_01: I I would say that uh community advocate and educator, you know, all and all the things that you are add up to, activist.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
SPEAKER_01: I agree.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's like the recipe for it.
SPEAKER_00: And it's again, you have to have those parts.
SPEAKER_00: That's the follow-through, right?
SPEAKER_00: Anyone can be an activist in the moment, but it's the follow-through that's important.
SPEAKER_01: In terms of being a community advocate and educator, what are you most passionate about right now?
SPEAKER_00: It it changes like my underwear, which is frequently.
SPEAKER_00: Thank goodness.
SPEAKER_00: Unless I'm unless I have a client that wants, you know, a strong scented jock strap.
SPEAKER_00: But uh because I I go back and forth so frequently between, all right, as a content creator, I'm gonna do a series of videos that are going to talk uh a lot of the the subjects that I discuss are centered around consent and sex education.
SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna do a series of videos like that.
SPEAKER_00: Or then, you know, I I turn to advocacy where I see other people that they have their platforms and they just need that additional support and promotion.
SPEAKER_00: And so I'll I'll I'll go back and forth on those two things.
SPEAKER_01: Well, let's let's talk about consent.
unknown: Yes.
SPEAKER_01: Why is that a big issue?
SPEAKER_01: And how is that an issue in in the gay community, in the LGBTQ community?
SPEAKER_00: That's a great question.
SPEAKER_00: I and I I want to make a distinct a distinction because I think when I talk about consent, my the people that I'm trying to target right now are it's very local.
SPEAKER_00: The message is international, right?
SPEAKER_00: Consent is an international topic.
SPEAKER_00: But the people that I'm trying to reach right now is very specific.
SPEAKER_00: I'm trying to reach my local community because I see in my local community that consent is addressed in a completely different way than I've ever experienced.
SPEAKER_00: When I lived in Denver, it was a very queer community.
SPEAKER_00: It was very much LGBTQ.
SPEAKER_00: I'm in Palm Springs now, which it has elements of a queer community, but is a mostly gay community that is focused around the experience of cis gay men.
SPEAKER_00: And so that that has a completely different culture and history and requires different actions than maybe a queer community that is a little bit more tuned into a consent culture or an anti-rape culture, where because women and femmes and non-masculine identified people have often been the target of rape.
SPEAKER_00: And so their voices contribute to those conversations about consent, and that is lacking from this community here because there's not so many of those voices participating in the conversation.
SPEAKER_00: So I have the memory of a goldfish.
SPEAKER_00: What were we talking about?
SPEAKER_01: We're just talking about, you know, how do how does how does cons consent, why is that an issue in our community?
SPEAKER_01: What how does it present itself?
SPEAKER_01: I I I know I I can talk about how it presents itself to me, why it's an issue.
SPEAKER_01: And that I was reminded of of what it's like to have somebody not get my consent when I started getting into putt play.
SPEAKER_01: Because uh long ago when I was uh submissive to some people and I wore a collar, I remember going out and people wanting to touch and grab my collar without asking.
SPEAKER_01: And it was very invasive.
SPEAKER_01: And then when I started getting into putt play just last year, I would wear a collar, I'd have the hood on, a tail, looking very more approachable than I probably do when I'm out of my pup gear.
SPEAKER_01: And suddenly people were grabbing my collar, they were grabbing my harness, they were grabbing my nipples, they were grabbing my ass, they were grabbing my tail.
SPEAKER_01: It was I could not go to a bar without being basically assaulted.
SPEAKER_01: Yes, it it happens every time, every time.
SPEAKER_01: The last time I went out, I was not in the bar even 60 seconds, and someone grabbed my nipple.
SPEAKER_01: Now I realize, you know, you have great nipples, right?
SPEAKER_00: You really do.
SPEAKER_00: I'm staring at them right now.
SPEAKER_01: But I'm allowed to go without a shirt in a bar and not have to to worry about people grabbing me.
SPEAKER_00: Right.
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes it's just like I think w in this climate, the the climate that we're living in here, it you you could have clothes on and people grab you inappropriately.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: You know, like you don't have to be shirtless, you don't have to get your ass out, you don't have to have like people feel entitled.
SPEAKER_00: There's an entitlement here.
SPEAKER_00: And what I'm learning from some of our elders that have been in this community for a while, been out for a while, is that it's their it's their cultural experience that attributes to a lot of these transgressions against people where they've normalized this behavior and they see it as acceptable and actually wanted.
SPEAKER_00: And and we have to we have to start to deconstruct that.
SPEAKER_00: And it's gonna take a lot of work, and it's gonna take a lot of people saying, No, this is not okay.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm reinforcing that idea.
SPEAKER_01: So I am an elder.
SPEAKER_01: You I mean it it doesn't seem appropriate to me.
SPEAKER_01: I would never grab somebody anywhere or any of their gear without their permission, never.
SPEAKER_01: So and and when I you've been educated.
SPEAKER_01: You've been educated, you've been in the industry for a while.
SPEAKER_01: Exactly the point.
SPEAKER_01: People need to be educated.
SPEAKER_01: No matter what age they are, there obviously is a need for this education.
SPEAKER_01: And when I provide education after someone has grabbed me, usually they're like, Oh, surprised that I'm telling them to let go of me or to not touch me, to ask before they touch.
SPEAKER_01: It's always a surprise.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's it's part of that.
SPEAKER_00: It's I I feel like it's just built into the culture of a lot of places, especially tourist destinations where people are on vacation and they're here to have a good time and they think they can act however they want to because they're not at home and there's no repercussions.
SPEAKER_00: But also, I do it's I mean, you're an elder, but these people are older, you know, like a lot of the lot of people that have created the climate.
SPEAKER_00: The we're talking about the climate that we're living in, they've made it acceptable.
SPEAKER_00: And so other people that come into this area or into our community also think it's acceptable because they're seeing it happen left and right, and they're like, oh, okay, I can do this.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
SPEAKER_01: I think for some reason, as cis gay men, we're supposed to think it's flattering, uh, which uh, you know, I I'm glad that someone is responding positively to me, but I'm it's uh it uh doesn't feel good to be invaded.
SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, but I think we're we've been like we're supposed to to just let it happen because we're cis gay men.
SPEAKER_00: Uh I was literally in a bar last visit.
SPEAKER_00: I I told you this story about like a week and a half ago, and I was talking with a group of friends with my husband next to me, and I just had my shirt off and my shorts were sagging a little bit, but whatever.
SPEAKER_00: This guy comes up behind me and sticks his hand down my backside to grab my ass from like underneath my shorts.
SPEAKER_00: And I went into my whole consent spiel, and he leaves the bar.
SPEAKER_00: So I go up to the bar manager and I say, I shared what my experience was.
SPEAKER_00: And literally his response was, Well, you should be flattered.
SPEAKER_00: Like, so there is that.
SPEAKER_00: That is very much you know, the mindset is like, well, you know, think of it as a positive.
SPEAKER_00: So, because not everybody gets that attention, you know, and it's unwanted attention.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know.
SPEAKER_01: So if you're watching this right now or listening to this on the audio podcast, and you are not aware of this, now you know.
SPEAKER_01: Ask before you touch someone, it's a thing, yeah.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and you know, I think people think consent is not sexy because it ruins the moment in some way, like it it ruins the sexual tension.
SPEAKER_00: And I find that if somebody comes to me and asks for consent, whether I'm attracted to them or not, I'm like, absolutely, you want to touch my ass?
SPEAKER_00: You ask for consent.
SPEAKER_00: Like, go ahead, please.
SPEAKER_00: That turns me on.
SPEAKER_00: You know, I may not be attracted to you, but I am attracted to the fact that you had the decency to ask.
SPEAKER_01: Right.
SPEAKER_01: Oh, if someone says to me, you know, hot chest, can I can I feel it?
SPEAKER_01: Can I play with your nipples?
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
SPEAKER_01: That is that feels good.
SPEAKER_01: And I am 99.9% of the time gonna say go for it.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_01: Consent is sexy.
SPEAKER_01: That's that should be our our new slogan.
SPEAKER_01: Consent is sexy.
SPEAKER_00: It is.
SPEAKER_00: There's a couple things that we have to do when it when it comes to authentic consent training.
SPEAKER_00: Firstly, we have to change this perception that consent is not sexy, that asking for permission is not sexy, that you know, it's better to ask for forgiveness than for permission.
SPEAKER_00: We have to change that mindset.
SPEAKER_00: That's one pillar.
SPEAKER_00: The other pillars are the other pillars would be something to the effect of how do we how do we ask for consent?
SPEAKER_00: What do we do?
SPEAKER_00: How do we react when our consent is violated?
SPEAKER_00: And how do we handle rejection when somebody doesn't provide consent?
SPEAKER_00: You know, how do we handle those negative feelings of of rejection?
SPEAKER_00: So it's not it's not enough to just empower people to say, yes means yes, no means no.
SPEAKER_00: It's handling this from a multifaceted approach.
SPEAKER_00: And we're not doing that enough, I feel, in the consent forward community.
SPEAKER_00: We're we're we're we're handling one, usually one element, and that's the yes, visit and the yes, no is no aspect of it.
SPEAKER_00: But there's we have to address this from multi-angles.
SPEAKER_00: And it's getting the entire community involved.
SPEAKER_00: After that situation that I had with the bar, I followed up with an email.
SPEAKER_00: I said, hey, this isn't this was my experience, and this is the response that I got.
SPEAKER_00: And they were very receptive to hearing that feedback and wanted to talk with the other establishments in the area about how they handled consent violations.
SPEAKER_00: And I presented a list, a very lengthy list of here's what you can do to start building a more consent-forward environment and how you can address some of these concerns that patrons have, or how your staff can address patrons concerned.
SPEAKER_00: We have to, we have to be willing to step up to those conversations and give feedback and say, this is what we would like you to do.
SPEAKER_00: You know, not just don't do this, don't do that.
SPEAKER_00: But this is how we would like you to respond in kind.
SPEAKER_00: How would we like them to respond?
SPEAKER_00: So a few things that I that I think uh bars specifically in nightlife venues, because a lot of these violations happen in our in our clubs and our in our bars, is that one, you need to make a very public statement and stance on consent.
SPEAKER_00: And it is don't ask or don't touch without asking.
SPEAKER_00: And that can be done with flyers posted around the bar, maybe video monitoring, a video monitor, anything like that.
SPEAKER_00: So you're making a clear statement about where you stand, and then you can have specific like staff trained on consent, like everything that we're talking about.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't need to be every staff member, but somebody should.
SPEAKER_00: Be trained as this is this is our our source of knowledge, certainly security people, security people specifically, security people specifically, because I mean if if I'm in the bar, that's who I'm thinking would handle these concerns.
SPEAKER_00: And then you need to have a way of logging these incidences and these violations and having a sense of what you do with the patron who is the violator.
SPEAKER_00: Like maybe it's a the first time it's a warning, and then the second time you're escorted at the bar.
SPEAKER_00: And then if you're a repeat offender, then you're 86 from the bar.
SPEAKER_00: But you wouldn't know that unless you kept some sort of log.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: Right.
SPEAKER_00: So these are these things are not, in my mind, they're easy to do, but it's hard for people to reinforce these new practices and procedures because they're because they're new and they're not used to it.
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's like having an incident log when it comes to the safety, someone cut their finger.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: You know, I I'm sure that that happens in bars all the time.
SPEAKER_00: I know that happens in bars all the time, but like I've never worked in an establishment where there's an there is supposed to be a log, but it doesn't get logs, you know, like that.
SPEAKER_00: So it's really getting people that are passionate about this.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: So there's just those are just a few things.
SPEAKER_00: The the the list is, you know, a hundred bullets long.
SPEAKER_01: So and I'll be writing more about that in my Substack link at the end.
SPEAKER_01: We'll provide that.
SPEAKER_01: We'll provide all our links at the end, by the way.
SPEAKER_01: Um I just want to say one more thing about consent.
SPEAKER_01: And I want to speak directly to people who have a submissive mindset, if not all the time, at times, and at a when they might be in a bar and around other people.
SPEAKER_01: Just because you are a submissive doesn't mean that you are submissive to everyone.
SPEAKER_01: And if somebody touches you and it's unwelcome, you have every right to say, take your hand off me.
SPEAKER_01: Don't touch me, ask before you touch.
SPEAKER_01: So it's okay to do that, even as a submissive.
SPEAKER_01: Maybe especially as a submissive.
SPEAKER_00: I think especially as a submissive.
SPEAKER_00: I think I think the the miss the I I'm lacking verbiage here, but there's this yeah, misconception about submissive.
SPEAKER_00: And that's that, you know, they're supposed to just take what is given to them.
SPEAKER_00: But we have to remember, I was gonna say we, because I'm I don't I don't identify as a submissive, but when I am in a submissive state, I know that my submissiveness is a gift to someone else.
SPEAKER_00: And so if my submissiveness is a gift to someone else, I'm not gonna let everyone unwrap that gift.
SPEAKER_00: That is for someone else that I'm giving that to.
SPEAKER_00: And if you have not earned it, then you do not get to unwrap the present.
SPEAKER_01: Submission is something that is negotiated with someone, it is not a blanket.
SPEAKER_01: I'm a submissive, everyone treat me however they want.
SPEAKER_01: Doesn't work that way.
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
SPEAKER_01: Uh you you mention uh inclusive spaces in your bio.
SPEAKER_01: Inclusivity seems to be a word that's uh brought up played out all the time.
SPEAKER_01: I think it means different things to different people.
SPEAKER_01: What does it mean if a space is truly inclusive?
SPEAKER_01: What does that look like?
SPEAKER_00: Let me package this first by saying inclusivity is not tokenism.
SPEAKER_00: Like it's not checking all the boxes, like yeah, our space has trans people and black people and Asian people and sis gays, and you know, it's it's not about checking all these boxes about who's in the room.
SPEAKER_00: It's inclusivity is letting people know that the room is one available to them, but also inviting those people to enter into that space.
SPEAKER_00: That is the inclusive is not a passive thing, it is an act.
SPEAKER_00: You have to I I use this example in my speech for Palm Springs Leather last year.
SPEAKER_00: Or actually, no, it was the Mystery Leather, Colorado, a few years ago.
SPEAKER_00: And I said, it's it's not enough to say that the the dinner table, everyone's welcome to the dinner table when 50% of the people can't afford a bus ticket to get to the dinner table, right?
SPEAKER_00: You have to go, be you willing to go out and grab them and bring them to your table.
SPEAKER_00: That's inclusivity, that is action.
SPEAKER_00: So my favorite leather bar in the entire country is actually in Denver.
SPEAKER_00: I will totally shelter them out, trade.
SPEAKER_00: But the what the what makes it so magical is that it's a leather bar.
SPEAKER_00: And I think people have this idea of what leather bars look like, what they should feel like, what the clientele is like.
SPEAKER_00: But it is such a hodgepodge of people.
SPEAKER_00: You will have hardcore leather folk in there, and then you're gonna have like these weirdo, emo, goth, trans folks that are also in the same space, and everybody's just getting along, having a good time.
SPEAKER_00: Like that to me is what I think of when I think of an inclusive space is that this is a space for everyone.
SPEAKER_00: Yes, it is catered towards a very specific community that itself is a niche.
SPEAKER_00: But just because they cater to that does not mean that they are exclusive of other people.
SPEAKER_00: They don't treat people in other ways.
SPEAKER_00: You know, so many gay bars are, you know, the the moment a woman or a femme-identified person enters in their space, they feel attacked and threatened.
SPEAKER_00: And like, what are what are they doing here?
SPEAKER_00: They don't belong here.
SPEAKER_00: They need to read the room, you know?
SPEAKER_00: Like, what is that that person entering your space taking away from you?
SPEAKER_00: You know, or how are they dampening your mood?
SPEAKER_00: Like people, especially gaceous men, will be like, oh, well, they're, you know, this is a man's space, and you know, it ruins the sexual tension in the room and da-da-da.
SPEAKER_00: Like, if your your sense of masculinity is that fragile that a set of boobs enters the room and now you can't get it off with some, that says more about you than it does anything anybody else, you know, because you you're so distracted that you can't focus your eye on prize.
SPEAKER_00: That's a you problem.
SPEAKER_00: It's not a somebody entering the room problem.
SPEAKER_00: So it's it's these dismantling that and making sure that everybody does feel welcomed and respected in that space, whether you're attracted to them or not.
SPEAKER_01: You mentioned cisgender.
SPEAKER_01: I think I mentioned it earlier.
SPEAKER_01: I just want to be clear for people who may not be familiar with the term.
SPEAKER_01: If you're a cisgender male, that means you identify with the sex assigned at birth.
SPEAKER_01: So if you're born with a penis, you're most likely assigned the sex male at birth, and that is happens to also be the sex that you identify with, um, which is not always the case.
SPEAKER_01: Is it ever okay to be exclusive?
SPEAKER_01: The the argument I hear from usually often sometimes from cisgender men is they want a space that is exclusive.
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
SPEAKER_00: So this is something that I think is a gray area that even sometimes I go back and forth within my head, and I really have to challenge my uncomfortability with when I want it to be more exclusive.
SPEAKER_00: So let's take a sex party, for example, and that's that's you know, there are spaces designed for men, gay men, and they sometimes can be inclusive of trans men or male-identified peoples, but most of the time they want other cis gay men in there.
SPEAKER_00: And the the argument is that it's it creates a safe space for them to play.
SPEAKER_00: And and I've been at sex parties that were pansexual, and I, although I thought it was great and nobody bothered me, uh there were there were still moments of where I didn't feel 100% comfortable, and I didn't, I to be honest with you, know why I felt uncomfortable at that time.
SPEAKER_00: And I think that if I and recently I went to pansexual play, it wasn't a pansexual play party, it was a gay play party, but that was open to everyone, and there were women and trans folks there of all uh gender identities, and the gay men played in a very specific area, and nobody bothered them.
SPEAKER_00: Nobody bothered them, and so it was like this really hodgepodge mix of people.
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, oh well, this isn't this isn't bad at all.
SPEAKER_00: Like, why don't we do more of this?
SPEAKER_00: But there there have been times where I'm just like, oh well, maybe this is a little bit more a distraction when I'm laying next to somebody and somebody else is screaming their heads off, and like that's a distraction for me and doesn't make me feel in as in the zone as I would be.
SPEAKER_00: But to be fair, anybody who's screaming their head off next to me while I'm trying to get fucked is a is a boner killer.
SPEAKER_00: So um, so I I get it.
SPEAKER_00: I here's it's I think it's the way you go about it, though.
SPEAKER_00: I think it's one thing to say, like, look, we're we're creating the space for this kind of people or this group of people, but like there's there's bars that want to remain like poor gay men.
SPEAKER_00: There are bars out there that are and they're trying to find ways to deter women from entering their spaces.
SPEAKER_00: And you know, some of them have flat outside, well, we'll just turn them away at the door.
SPEAKER_00: I was like, you can't do that.
SPEAKER_00: That's discrimination, that's against law.
SPEAKER_00: You can't do that, you can't act in an illegal way to preserve the sanctity of your gay space.
SPEAKER_00: Like that's that to me is is wrong.
SPEAKER_00: But I don't think it's wrong to say, you know, we need our spaces too, you know.
SPEAKER_00: And I think it's not, if you do it from the right perspective or with the right intention, then it doesn't have to be discriminatory.
SPEAKER_00: It can be in support of.
SPEAKER_00: Just like I think that we need spaces specifically for women and trans folks, like those, like because they don't really exist.
SPEAKER_00: Like most of our spaces are for cis gay men or you know, for men in general.
SPEAKER_00: And so there needs to be someone needs to carve out space and create space for them.
SPEAKER_00: You know, uh, gay men, they will take up any space.
SPEAKER_00: They will, they will, they will take up a bathhouse, they will take up a public park, they will take up a Macy's bathroom, like they will make space wherever they go.
SPEAKER_00: Home Dome, Home Depot.
SPEAKER_01: This uh this has come up in the bait community, the mast the male masturbation community, which is a whole subculture in itself, and they have jax groups all around the world.
SPEAKER_01: And they're still learning to navigate this.
SPEAKER_01: There are some clubs that have not yet come to say we're open to all male-identified people, which includes transgender men.
SPEAKER_01: Our club in Palm Springs, which I founded, though I'm no longer an administrator of, has that statement on their website.
SPEAKER_01: But it it is definitely something that is still an ongoing thing that we're navigating.
SPEAKER_01: And if you're listening to this or watching this and you have your own thoughts about it, please add a comment, email me.
SPEAKER_01: I'd love to hear from you.
SPEAKER_00: Uh it is a community conversation.
SPEAKER_00: I think we need to we need to be willing to have uncomfortable conversations.
SPEAKER_00: And this is one of this is it's such a gray, gray space conversation.
SPEAKER_00: And I think it does create a lot of discomfort because we're having to be introspective and uh talk about like, well, why does this make me feel unsafe or comfortable?
SPEAKER_00: And that means maybe addressing addressing some of our own internalized homophobia or misogyny.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: And that could be uncomfortable.
SPEAKER_00: But it's also about like being honest about what does make us feel comfortable.
SPEAKER_00: And that might be hurtful to for other people to hear.
SPEAKER_00: And I think innately we don't want to hurt other people's feelings.
SPEAKER_00: So it's a very difficult conversation to have.
SPEAKER_01: We've talked about consent, we've talked about inclusivity.
SPEAKER_01: Is there anything else that you're really passionate about that you'd like to talk about today?
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I could talk all day.
SPEAKER_01: Well, you can't.
SPEAKER_00: I know, I know.
SPEAKER_01: Anything that's burning on my mind right now.
SPEAKER_01: Well, you you you mentioned in your bio highlighting the the experiences of kinky queer people of color.
SPEAKER_00: That's yeah, that's where I was there going.
SPEAKER_00: Because that so first thing to understand why this is important at all, is that when you look at the kink community or BDSM community, a lot of depictions that show what that community is, is of white folks.
SPEAKER_00: And it's hard for us to see ourselves in the community.
SPEAKER_00: And because of that, it's a deterrent from other people becoming a part of the community.
SPEAKER_00: In the same way, like I think if I if I use this analogy or this comparison, is that there's in our community, in our Palm Springs community, there's not a lot of pups or pets that are visible within our community.
SPEAKER_00: And I think there is a large interest, but if I don't see pups in the community, then I'm not gonna necessarily go out and want to wear my pup gear because I don't want to feel like I'm the only one.
SPEAKER_00: Right.
SPEAKER_00: And so POC, B I P O C people often feel like, well, I don't want to be the only one in the room.
SPEAKER_00: And that is so much of our experiences.
SPEAKER_00: I can't tell you how many times in my life I'm usually the only brown person in the room, or I'm one of two or three brown people in the room.
SPEAKER_00: And it does feel unwelcoming, you know, it's not intentionally unwelcoming, but it feels unwelcoming and or it feels like this space doesn't belong to me, or it's not for me.
SPEAKER_00: And so creating visibility for kinky people of color is extremely important because with with having multiple voices in the room or identities in the room, then it really changes the nature of how we play, of how we build community.
SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, the way that you play with people of color isn't necessarily the same way that you play with white folk.
SPEAKER_00: I'll give you an example.
SPEAKER_00: And this is something that I didn't even consider.
SPEAKER_00: I I went to a POC kink seminar and they were talking about spanking.
SPEAKER_00: And spanking is a very popular kink.
SPEAKER_00: Well, when you spank somebody who's white, you can tell by the pigmentation of their skin where you need when you need to slow down and when you need to calm down.
SPEAKER_00: Well, us that are gifted with melanin doesn't necessarily always work that way.
SPEAKER_00: Right.
SPEAKER_00: And so there's different tactics and skills that you need to do or communication that you need to have with the submissive of whoever's receiving the spanking.
SPEAKER_00: And so again, it changes the way that we play and also changes the way that we do build community because our our similarities are going to be very different.
SPEAKER_00: And so the way that we make connections is going to be very different.
SPEAKER_00: And so I would like to, I want to see more kinky people of color.
SPEAKER_00: And so I'm, I do my best to be as visible and out there as possible, produce as much content as possible, teach where I can, and and really find people that even have like the smallest curiosity and be like, I'm gonna take you to this event, you know.
SPEAKER_00: I or I want you to participate in this project.
SPEAKER_00: It's that going back to that to the conversation of inclusivity, that's what we're talking about.
SPEAKER_00: Like you need to bring people in in order to create this change that you would like to see.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
SPEAKER_01: I think we've covered a lot.
SPEAKER_01: We have.
unknown: Yeah.
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
SPEAKER_01: Is there anything else you want to share with the audience about yourself, things that you're working on you want to promote?
SPEAKER_01: I mean, sell yourself here.
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
SPEAKER_00: I mean, my my name is The Papades.
SPEAKER_00: I can be found on most socials as at the Puppetis, which is T-H-E-P-U-P-H-A-D-E-S.
SPEAKER_00: I am always looking to do collaborations with other content creators on sex education, consent conversations.
SPEAKER_00: I do a lot of search trap reels, so I'm down to collaborate on those.
SPEAKER_00: And that's it.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that's the only thing I want to promote.
SPEAKER_01: I haven't done a podcast episode in a while, so I just want to get my listeners and my viewers up to speed.
SPEAKER_01: Always the place to go for my links is robertblackx.com.
SPEAKER_01: And that will take you to anything that I'm involved in at the time, which includes now my substack.
SPEAKER_01: Uh, if you haven't looked at that, please give my substack a follow and check out what I've been writing.
SPEAKER_01: Of course, this this uh podcast, pspups.com.
SPEAKER_01: It everything is on there.
SPEAKER_01: Links to my blue sky, etc.
SPEAKER_00: You can find links to all my socials at thepuphades.com.
SPEAKER_00: thehupubhades.com.
SPEAKER_00: That's thepuphades.com.
SPEAKER_00: I learned from you.
SPEAKER_01: My whole life is filled with dot-coms.
SPEAKER_01: All right.
SPEAKER_01: Well, Hades, thank you so much for being my guest today and being my friend.
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
SPEAKER_01: I've learned so much from you.
SPEAKER_01: Oh and I admire nothing.
SPEAKER_00: Oh, stop it.
SPEAKER_00: It's nice to be able to do it.
SPEAKER_00: You admire my videos online.
SPEAKER_00: That's what you admire.
SPEAKER_00: You too.
SPEAKER_00: Fantastic.
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
SPEAKER_00: You too.
SPEAKER_00: Bye bye.