{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2.58,"endTime":4.44,"body":"This season,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2.58,"endTime":4.44,"body":"you might have noticed we've"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":4.44,"endTime":7.41,"body":"talked about systematic"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":4.44,"endTime":7.41,"body":"approaches to changing behavior"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":7.41,"endTime":10.5,"body":"several times, which is exciting"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":7.41,"endTime":10.5,"body":"for me to see happening as we"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":10.5,"endTime":13.71,"body":"could sometimes see spaghetti on"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":10.5,"endTime":13.71,"body":"the wall approaches in dog"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":13.71,"endTime":17.67,"body":"training. Daniel Shaw joins me"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":13.71,"endTime":17.67,"body":"for this episode of fresh bites"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":17.67,"endTime":20.67,"body":"on the by the end of the dog for"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":17.67,"endTime":20.67,"body":"a wonderful chat around his"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":20.76,"endTime":23.76,"body":"systematic formulation approach"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":20.76,"endTime":23.76,"body":"to working with aggression in"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":23.76,"endTime":28.02,"body":"dogs. This can include"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":23.76,"endTime":28.02,"body":"principles such as CBT skills,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":28.05,"endTime":31.86,"body":"systemic counseling principles,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":28.05,"endTime":31.86,"body":"and some psychodynamic"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":31.86,"endTime":34.77,"body":"principles. These might seem"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":31.86,"endTime":34.77,"body":"like fancy words, but Daniel"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":34.77,"endTime":38.22,"body":"does a fantastic job of breaking"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":34.77,"endTime":38.22,"body":"things down in an understandable"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":38.22,"endTime":41.31,"body":"way. If you are enjoying the by"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":38.22,"endTime":41.31,"body":"the end of the dog, you can"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":41.31,"endTime":45.09,"body":"support the podcast by going to"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":41.31,"endTime":45.09,"body":"aggressive dog.com, where there"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":45.09,"endTime":48.0,"body":"are a variety of educational"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":45.09,"endTime":48.0,"body":"opportunities to learn more"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":48.0,"endTime":50.55,"body":"about helping dogs with"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":48.0,"endTime":50.55,"body":"aggression issues, including the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":50.55,"endTime":53.07,"body":"upcoming aggression in dogs"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":50.55,"endTime":53.07,"body":"conference happening from"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":53.07,"endTime":57.18,"body":"September 30 Through October"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":53.07,"endTime":57.18,"body":"2 2022. in Providence, Rhode"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":57.18,"endTime":61.05,"body":"Island with both in person and"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":57.18,"endTime":61.05,"body":"online options, you can learn"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":61.05,"endTime":64.41,"body":"more about the aggression in"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":61.05,"endTime":64.41,"body":"dogs master course, which is the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":64.41,"endTime":66.96,"body":"most comprehensive course"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":64.41,"endTime":66.96,"body":"available anywhere in the world"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":67.14,"endTime":70.02,"body":"for learning how to work with"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":67.14,"endTime":70.02,"body":"and help dogs with aggression"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":70.02,"endTime":75.51,"body":"issues. Hey, everyone, I'm"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":70.02,"endTime":75.51,"body":"really excited for this episode,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":75.51,"endTime":78.15,"body":"we're gonna geek out a little"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":75.51,"endTime":78.15,"body":"bit this week with Daniel Shaw,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":78.36,"endTime":82.02,"body":"Daniel owns and runs animal"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":78.36,"endTime":82.02,"body":"behavior kits. He's a dog"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":82.02,"endTime":85.32,"body":"behavior consultant certified"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":82.02,"endTime":85.32,"body":"with the IW, ABC trained with"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":85.32,"endTime":88.71,"body":"the natural animal center. He's"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":85.32,"endTime":88.71,"body":"interested in dog cognition,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":88.74,"endTime":92.82,"body":"neurobiology, and behavior,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":88.74,"endTime":92.82,"body":"formulation, philosophy and"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":92.82,"endTime":96.39,"body":"ethics in the dog behavior world"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":92.82,"endTime":96.39,"body":"and human behavior change. He's"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":96.39,"endTime":98.76,"body":"working on his degree in"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":96.39,"endTime":98.76,"body":"psychology. So we're going to be"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":98.76,"endTime":102.33,"body":"talking a little bit about human"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":98.76,"endTime":102.33,"body":"psychology and the behavior of"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":102.33,"endTime":105.72,"body":"dogs that we work with. So"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":102.33,"endTime":105.72,"body":"welcome, Daniel. All right,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":105.719,"endTime":106.979,"body":"thank you. It's great"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":105.719,"endTime":106.979,"body":"to be here."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":107.52,"endTime":108.81,"body":"Yeah, so"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":107.52,"endTime":108.81,"body":"we're going to be talking about"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":108.81,"endTime":112.26,"body":"something called formulation."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":108.81,"endTime":112.26,"body":"And that's maybe a forbidden"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":112.26,"endTime":116.37,"body":"word for some of the listeners"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":112.26,"endTime":116.37,"body":"coming in. And I will, I think"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":116.4,"endTime":118.77,"body":"one of the aspects that,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":116.4,"endTime":118.77,"body":"especially for new trainers, or"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":118.77,"endTime":122.34,"body":"consultants, starting out is"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":118.77,"endTime":122.34,"body":"having a system in place that"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":122.34,"endTime":125.46,"body":"helps them navigate the process"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":122.34,"endTime":125.46,"body":"of assessing what's happening in"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":125.52,"endTime":128.91,"body":"sourcing in dog aggression"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":125.52,"endTime":128.91,"body":"cases, it's really important to"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":129.18,"endTime":131.94,"body":"determine all of the variables"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":129.18,"endTime":131.94,"body":"that can be impacting the dog's"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":131.94,"endTime":135.72,"body":"behavior. Because if we miss"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":131.94,"endTime":135.72,"body":"things, we might not be helping"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":135.72,"endTime":138.6,"body":"the animal as much as we can."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":135.72,"endTime":138.6,"body":"And I know I don't know about"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":138.6,"endTime":141.06,"body":"you, but I know when I first"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":138.6,"endTime":141.06,"body":"started out, I'm like, oh, gosh,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":141.06,"endTime":143.91,"body":"I'm gonna miss something or so I"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":141.06,"endTime":143.91,"body":"had this huge intake form, and"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":143.91,"endTime":146.58,"body":"all these ways of making sure"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":143.91,"endTime":146.58,"body":"that I canvass all the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":146.58,"endTime":149.13,"body":"information. And even then I"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":146.58,"endTime":149.13,"body":"would miss things because I"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":149.13,"endTime":152.37,"body":"didn't have my own system in"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":149.13,"endTime":152.37,"body":"place. So I sort of developed my"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":152.37,"endTime":154.47,"body":"own kind of approach to"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":152.37,"endTime":154.47,"body":"assessing that, but you've got a"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":154.47,"endTime":158.07,"body":"really cool way of looking at"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":154.47,"endTime":158.07,"body":"that. So I want to jump in and,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":158.22,"endTime":160.86,"body":"and hopefully, the listeners can"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":158.22,"endTime":160.86,"body":"get some of the value that"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":160.86,"endTime":164.31,"body":"you've got that you're gonna"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":160.86,"endTime":164.31,"body":"help us understand this more"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":164.31,"endTime":167.67,"body":"systematic approach that's got"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":164.31,"endTime":167.67,"body":"some roots in human psychology"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":167.67,"endTime":171.15,"body":"as well. So let's jump right in"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":167.67,"endTime":171.15,"body":"here and kind of define, you"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":171.15,"endTime":174.66,"body":"know, you were mentioning"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":171.15,"endTime":174.66,"body":"diagnostic and formulation. So"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":174.81,"endTime":177.75,"body":"for those of us that may not be"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":174.81,"endTime":177.75,"body":"aware of those terms, maybe you"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":177.75,"endTime":178.98,"body":"can expand a little further."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":179.49,"endTime":182.46,"body":"Yeah. So I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":179.49,"endTime":182.46,"body":"firstly, the technical"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":182.46,"endTime":186.9,"body":"definition for a formulation is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":182.46,"endTime":186.9,"body":"basically just a summary of an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":186.9,"endTime":191.01,"body":"animal's problems. So what is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":186.9,"endTime":191.01,"body":"going on in that particular dog,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":191.25,"endTime":195.0,"body":"and an explanation of how"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":191.25,"endTime":195.0,"body":"Firstly, they developed. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":195.09,"endTime":197.97,"body":"again, looking to things like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":195.09,"endTime":197.97,"body":"maybe the animal's genetics,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":197.97,"endTime":201.39,"body":"their development, their"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":197.97,"endTime":201.39,"body":"learning history, that ethology"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":201.87,"endTime":204.9,"body":"in terms of how that problem may"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":201.87,"endTime":204.9,"body":"have developed, and also how"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":204.9,"endTime":207.57,"body":"that problems maintained, which"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":204.9,"endTime":207.57,"body":"is, again, really important. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":207.72,"endTime":210.48,"body":"for example, in your case, as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":207.72,"endTime":210.48,"body":"someone that deals with a lot of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":210.48,"endTime":214.2,"body":"dogs that are maybe struggling"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":210.48,"endTime":214.2,"body":"with issues, such as aggression,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":214.77,"endTime":218.58,"body":"what is causing that aggression"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":214.77,"endTime":218.58,"body":"to continue displaying in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":218.58,"endTime":221.28,"body":"dark? What is causing that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":218.58,"endTime":221.28,"body":"aggression to continue being"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":221.31,"endTime":224.85,"body":"really reinforced or practiced"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":221.31,"endTime":224.85,"body":"in the dog's life?"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":225.72,"endTime":227.43,"body":"Yeah, and"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":225.72,"endTime":227.43,"body":"it's, it's interesting, because"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":227.43,"endTime":229.56,"body":"there's a lot of different"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":227.43,"endTime":229.56,"body":"lenses in which we might"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":229.59,"endTime":232.77,"body":"approach assessing what's going"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":229.59,"endTime":232.77,"body":"on in the animal. So certainly,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":232.77,"endTime":235.74,"body":"from a behavior standpoint, we"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":232.77,"endTime":235.74,"body":"might look at the antecedents"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":235.74,"endTime":239.58,"body":"and consequences, which is"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":235.74,"endTime":239.58,"body":"absolutely important during that"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":239.58,"endTime":242.19,"body":"functional assessment, and then"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":239.58,"endTime":242.19,"body":"understanding what's happening"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":242.19,"endTime":244.83,"body":"maybe from a distant antecedent"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":242.19,"endTime":244.83,"body":"standpoint, so the underlying"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":244.83,"endTime":247.59,"body":"medical conditions and things"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":244.83,"endTime":247.59,"body":"like that, but there's a lot of"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":247.59,"endTime":251.04,"body":"different lenses we need to"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":247.59,"endTime":251.04,"body":"understand. And so how do you"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":251.04,"endTime":254.13,"body":"approach that and combining a"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":251.04,"endTime":254.13,"body":"lot of those different"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":254.13,"endTime":257.04,"body":"frameworks and sciences to"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":254.13,"endTime":257.04,"body":"formulate these assessments?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":257.31,"endTime":260.16,"body":"Yeah, absolutely. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":257.31,"endTime":260.16,"body":"one of the key things about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":260.16,"endTime":264.48,"body":"formulation is it provides us a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":260.16,"endTime":264.48,"body":"way to kind of look, or provide"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":264.48,"endTime":267.03,"body":"us provides us with an overview"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":264.48,"endTime":267.03,"body":"for all those different"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":267.03,"endTime":269.28,"body":"potential lenses that you that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":267.03,"endTime":269.28,"body":"we might be seeing things"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":269.28,"endTime":272.25,"body":"through. So for example, you've"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":269.28,"endTime":272.25,"body":"mentioned ABA assessment, right."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":272.25,"endTime":276.66,"body":"And that's a really big part of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":272.25,"endTime":276.66,"body":"kind of behavioral formulation."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":276.66,"endTime":279.9,"body":"So that kind of formulation,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":276.66,"endTime":279.9,"body":"where we look at an animal's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":279.9,"endTime":282.42,"body":"behavior from very much a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":279.9,"endTime":282.42,"body":"learning history standpoint, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":282.42,"endTime":285.24,"body":"very much in terms of whether"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":282.42,"endTime":285.24,"body":"there's been reinforcement of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":285.24,"endTime":286.86,"body":"this behavior, whether there"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":285.24,"endTime":286.86,"body":"might have been punishment of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":286.86,"endTime":289.89,"body":"this behavior. And as you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":286.86,"endTime":289.89,"body":"all the other sort of more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":289.89,"endTime":293.16,"body":"distant antecedents, as you say,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":289.89,"endTime":293.16,"body":"that might be influencing that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":293.16,"endTime":296.37,"body":"behavior. So that kind of comes"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":293.16,"endTime":296.37,"body":"into the behavioral standpoint,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":296.37,"endTime":299.52,"body":"which again, in human"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":296.37,"endTime":299.52,"body":"psychology, we would mostly see"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":299.52,"endTime":303.45,"body":"that Under the kind of the big"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":299.52,"endTime":303.45,"body":"umbrella of cognitive behavioral"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":303.45,"endTime":307.29,"body":"psychology, so cognitive"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":303.45,"endTime":307.29,"body":"behavioral psychology for humans"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":307.35,"endTime":310.62,"body":"provides one way in which we can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":307.35,"endTime":310.62,"body":"understand again, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":310.62,"endTime":313.95,"body":"development and maintenance of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":310.62,"endTime":313.95,"body":"distressing humans. That's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":313.95,"endTime":319.38,"body":"particularly looking at how"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":313.95,"endTime":319.38,"body":"development of human impacts"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":319.38,"endTime":322.53,"body":"their thoughts, their feelings,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":319.38,"endTime":322.53,"body":"their emotions and behaviors in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":322.53,"endTime":326.13,"body":"such a way that their presenting"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":322.53,"endTime":326.13,"body":"problem is either maintained,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":326.28,"endTime":329.1,"body":"or, or initially developed as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":326.28,"endTime":329.1,"body":"well."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":329.88,"endTime":331.92,"body":"Do you see"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":329.88,"endTime":331.92,"body":"parallels with what's happening"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":331.92,"endTime":335.1,"body":"in the canine cognition labs?"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":331.92,"endTime":335.1,"body":"And there's research in that"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":335.1,"endTime":337.56,"body":"aspect in parallels in what you"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":335.1,"endTime":337.56,"body":"were just talking about?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":338.16,"endTime":340.98,"body":"So yeah, absolutely. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":338.16,"endTime":340.98,"body":"in terms of the sort of work on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":340.98,"endTime":343.59,"body":"canine cognition, the more we're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":340.98,"endTime":343.59,"body":"starting to understand about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":343.59,"endTime":347.1,"body":"canine cognition, the more we're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":343.59,"endTime":347.1,"body":"going to be able to see whether"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":347.1,"endTime":351.42,"body":"actually, some future treatments"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":347.1,"endTime":351.42,"body":"for dog behavior problems might"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":351.42,"endTime":353.7,"body":"be looking really different than"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":351.42,"endTime":353.7,"body":"they are today. Because, for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":353.7,"endTime":355.5,"body":"example, if we are using a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":353.7,"endTime":355.5,"body":"cognitive behavioral"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":355.5,"endTime":359.13,"body":"formulation, so if we're looking"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":355.5,"endTime":359.13,"body":"at a dog's behavior from a way"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":359.13,"endTime":361.29,"body":"in which we're again, looking at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":359.13,"endTime":361.29,"body":"the sort of the different"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":361.29,"endTime":365.73,"body":"cognitive and developmental and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":361.29,"endTime":365.73,"body":"learning history aspects of a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":365.73,"endTime":369.63,"body":"behavior is formed, we know with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":365.73,"endTime":369.63,"body":"humans, a certain array of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":369.63,"endTime":372.75,"body":"treatments tend to be really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":369.63,"endTime":372.75,"body":"successful for resolving some of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":372.75,"endTime":377.25,"body":"those and issues. But many of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":372.75,"endTime":377.25,"body":"those certainly aren't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":377.25,"endTime":380.07,"body":"applicable to dogs, that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":377.25,"endTime":380.07,"body":"absolutely fine. We can't modify"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":380.07,"endTime":382.98,"body":"thoughts in dogs, we can't, we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":380.07,"endTime":382.98,"body":"can modify thoughts to certain"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":382.98,"endTime":387.06,"body":"extent that we can't modify sort"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":382.98,"endTime":387.06,"body":"of core beliefs in dogs and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":387.06,"endTime":389.25,"body":"tackle thought processes in this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":387.06,"endTime":389.25,"body":"way that we might do with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":389.25,"endTime":391.47,"body":"humans. And we can't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":389.25,"endTime":391.47,"body":"particularly looking at the way"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":391.47,"endTime":394.53,"body":"they deal with stress and the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":391.47,"endTime":394.53,"body":"way they cope in the in the sort"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":394.53,"endTime":398.52,"body":"of cognitive sense that we do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":394.53,"endTime":398.52,"body":"with humans. But actually, some"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":398.55,"endTime":402.12,"body":"training methods that we use"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":398.55,"endTime":402.12,"body":"with humans to help them"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":402.12,"endTime":404.13,"body":"actually gain a little bit"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":402.12,"endTime":404.13,"body":"better control of their thoughts"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":404.19,"endTime":406.59,"body":"might be applicable for dogs."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":404.19,"endTime":406.59,"body":"And actually, we don't know"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":406.86,"endTime":410.4,"body":"whether they will be or not. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":406.86,"endTime":410.4,"body":"actually, another interesting"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":410.4,"endTime":412.08,"body":"aspect that you've kind of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":410.4,"endTime":412.08,"body":"touched on with this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":412.08,"endTime":415.11,"body":"formulation, sort of approach is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":412.08,"endTime":415.11,"body":"actually if we are borrowing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":415.11,"endTime":418.62,"body":"from something like CBT, and to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":415.11,"endTime":418.62,"body":"create a formulation for our"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":418.62,"endTime":422.94,"body":"dogs, then it might indicate"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":418.62,"endTime":422.94,"body":"some new treatments that are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":422.94,"endTime":425.67,"body":"useful for dogs in the future,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":422.94,"endTime":425.67,"body":"as well. So to give you one"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":425.67,"endTime":429.81,"body":"example, that's occurred to me a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":425.67,"endTime":429.81,"body":"few times is in something called"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":429.84,"endTime":432.57,"body":"meta cognitive therapy, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":429.84,"endTime":432.57,"body":"humans, they use something"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":432.57,"endTime":435.57,"body":"called attention training. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":432.57,"endTime":435.57,"body":"basically, that's just as simple"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":435.57,"endTime":438.78,"body":"as teaching a human to become"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":435.57,"endTime":438.78,"body":"get really, really good at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":438.78,"endTime":441.54,"body":"attending to one thing, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":438.78,"endTime":441.54,"body":"nothing else. And that's really,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":441.54,"endTime":445.77,"body":"really good for them in terms of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":441.54,"endTime":445.77,"body":"controlling negative automatic"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":445.77,"endTime":450.15,"body":"thoughts that might be again,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":445.77,"endTime":450.15,"body":"contributing to maintaining the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":450.15,"endTime":453.54,"body":"distress they're experiencing or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":450.15,"endTime":453.54,"body":"maintaining, if we're thinking"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":453.54,"endTime":457.62,"body":"of a dog, the fear they're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":453.54,"endTime":457.62,"body":"experiencing. So if, again, we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":457.62,"endTime":460.89,"body":"were to think of that in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":457.62,"endTime":460.89,"body":"context of a dog, that could be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":460.89,"endTime":462.84,"body":"something that's potentially"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":460.89,"endTime":462.84,"body":"quite useful, because it might"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":462.84,"endTime":467.13,"body":"help them navigate their sort of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":462.84,"endTime":467.13,"body":"visual and perceptual field,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":467.43,"endTime":472.05,"body":"both externally and internally,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":467.43,"endTime":472.05,"body":"away from potential threats."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":472.89,"endTime":474.42,"body":"Really"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":472.89,"endTime":474.42,"body":"interesting. I'm thinking about"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":474.42,"endTime":477.93,"body":"how I should get some of that"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":474.42,"endTime":477.93,"body":"therapy myself, my mind starts"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":477.93,"endTime":481.26,"body":"drifting off. But yes, can think"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":477.93,"endTime":481.26,"body":"of an example that we might use"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":481.26,"endTime":484.2,"body":"for a dog in a particular"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":481.26,"endTime":484.2,"body":"situation? Yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":484.2,"endTime":486.9,"body":"So I think probably"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":484.2,"endTime":486.9,"body":"best to start from the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":486.9,"endTime":489.33,"body":"beginning, if we were taking a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":486.9,"endTime":489.33,"body":"dog, and we were trying to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":489.33,"endTime":492.69,"body":"formulate, okay, what is going"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":489.33,"endTime":492.69,"body":"on with this particular animal?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":493.5,"endTime":496.11,"body":"So for example, if we were"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":493.5,"endTime":496.11,"body":"looking at dog and in your case,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":496.14,"endTime":499.38,"body":"I know, you see, primarily dogs"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":496.14,"endTime":499.38,"body":"that are suffering from issues"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":499.38,"endTime":503.82,"body":"with aggression, would certainly"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":499.38,"endTime":503.82,"body":"look at the different aspects of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":503.82,"endTime":507.18,"body":"development that might cause"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":503.82,"endTime":507.18,"body":"that issue. So again, the breed"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":507.18,"endTime":510.06,"body":"of that dog, whether that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":507.18,"endTime":510.06,"body":"going to obviously contribute to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":510.24,"endTime":514.17,"body":"them potentially being more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":510.24,"endTime":514.17,"body":"prone to those aggressive"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":514.41,"endTime":516.57,"body":"behaviors, again, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":514.41,"endTime":516.57,"body":"development of that dog will"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":516.57,"endTime":519.51,"body":"experience that that dog may"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":516.57,"endTime":519.51,"body":"have had during development."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":520.5,"endTime":523.38,"body":"Obviously, hopefully, most of us"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":520.5,"endTime":523.38,"body":"have heard a little bit about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":523.53,"endTime":526.35,"body":"the the effects of trauma on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":523.53,"endTime":526.35,"body":"behavior as well, so that dogs"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":526.35,"endTime":528.81,"body":"experienced a trauma. So that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":526.35,"endTime":528.81,"body":"really, really important to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":528.81,"endTime":533.13,"body":"understand all those aspects"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":528.81,"endTime":533.13,"body":"that might contribute, again, on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":533.13,"endTime":537.18,"body":"a more distal level, to the dogs"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":533.13,"endTime":537.18,"body":"current issues, but then also"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":537.18,"endTime":541.53,"body":"the current environment. And in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":537.18,"endTime":541.53,"body":"terms of what's going on, in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":541.53,"endTime":544.53,"body":"dogs, immediate circumstances."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":541.53,"endTime":544.53,"body":"So whether that behavior is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":544.53,"endTime":547.35,"body":"being reinforced by every time"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":544.53,"endTime":547.35,"body":"that dogs going out, it's maybe"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":547.35,"endTime":551.61,"body":"barking at a person having that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":547.35,"endTime":551.61,"body":"fear response, and then that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":551.61,"endTime":553.35,"body":"person goes away. So then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":551.61,"endTime":553.35,"body":"there's a certain amount of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":553.35,"endTime":556.38,"body":"reinforcement of that behavior,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":553.35,"endTime":556.38,"body":"there's a practicing of the fear"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":556.38,"endTime":559.5,"body":"response as well. So it's just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":556.38,"endTime":559.5,"body":"going to become much, much"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":559.5,"endTime":563.7,"body":"stronger every time that the dog"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":559.5,"endTime":563.7,"body":"performs that behavior. But then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":563.7,"endTime":566.79,"body":"we can also think about what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":563.7,"endTime":566.79,"body":"else might be perpetuating that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":566.79,"endTime":569.37,"body":"behavior in terms of maybe"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":566.79,"endTime":569.37,"body":"thinking about the owners"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":569.37,"endTime":573.96,"body":"behavior, as well. So if the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":569.37,"endTime":573.96,"body":"owner is maybe trying to respond"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":573.96,"endTime":577.5,"body":"by punishing that dog really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":573.96,"endTime":577.5,"body":"heavily every time it does have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":577.5,"endTime":580.38,"body":"that bad response, then again,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":577.5,"endTime":580.38,"body":"that's going to potentially"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":580.38,"endTime":583.47,"body":"further exacerbate that problem,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":580.38,"endTime":583.47,"body":"because the owner might think,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":583.5,"endTime":585.96,"body":"Oh, my gosh, I've seen a person."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":583.5,"endTime":585.96,"body":"That means that my owner is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":585.96,"endTime":588.66,"body":"about to go mad at me. So we can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":585.96,"endTime":588.66,"body":"think about all those different"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":588.66,"endTime":591.6,"body":"things that might be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":588.66,"endTime":591.6,"body":"perpetuating the issue. And we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":591.6,"endTime":594.87,"body":"can also think about it on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":591.6,"endTime":594.87,"body":"again, a slightly wider scale in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":594.87,"endTime":598.11,"body":"terms of the owner situation."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":594.87,"endTime":598.11,"body":"For example, if you've got an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":598.11,"endTime":601.83,"body":"owner that's very stressed, that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":598.11,"endTime":601.83,"body":"can that only be a part of a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":601.83,"endTime":604.23,"body":"formulation of what might be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":601.83,"endTime":604.23,"body":"causing that distress for that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":604.23,"endTime":606.96,"body":"dog. So if you've got an owner"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":604.23,"endTime":606.96,"body":"that's very stressed, that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":606.96,"endTime":610.08,"body":"maybe not coping too well with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":606.96,"endTime":610.08,"body":"life, or not coping too well"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":610.08,"endTime":612.78,"body":"with things generally, then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":610.08,"endTime":612.78,"body":"their patients with their dog"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":612.78,"endTime":615.21,"body":"might go down. So that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":612.78,"endTime":615.21,"body":"something we need to understand"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":615.36,"endTime":617.85,"body":"as a maintenance factor in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":615.36,"endTime":617.85,"body":"distress, it's something that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":617.85,"endTime":621.48,"body":"might cause that distress for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":617.85,"endTime":621.48,"body":"that dog to be continued. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":621.51,"endTime":624.36,"body":"actually addressing that is very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":621.51,"endTime":624.36,"body":"difficult in practice, but it is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":624.36,"endTime":627.06,"body":"at least something we need to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":624.36,"endTime":627.06,"body":"consider. So then in terms of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":627.06,"endTime":630.81,"body":"looking at potentially treating"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":627.06,"endTime":630.81,"body":"the dog and potentially moving"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":630.81,"endTime":634.62,"body":"forward with that, hopefully, by"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":630.81,"endTime":634.62,"body":"creating, firstly, some sort of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":634.65,"endTime":638.01,"body":"formulation, we are going to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":634.65,"endTime":638.01,"body":"start seeing where solutions"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":638.01,"endTime":642.21,"body":"might be viable. So if we know"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":638.01,"endTime":642.21,"body":"for example, that the owner's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":642.21,"endTime":645.24,"body":"responses are a problem for the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":642.21,"endTime":645.24,"body":"dog, then we know that it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":645.24,"endTime":647.76,"body":"something we can very easily"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":645.24,"endTime":647.76,"body":"address, we can very easily say,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":647.76,"endTime":650.79,"body":"actually, if your dog is in that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":647.76,"endTime":650.79,"body":"situation, again, this is how"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":650.79,"endTime":654.33,"body":"you can respond. But also, we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":650.79,"endTime":654.33,"body":"are probably going to be wanting"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":654.33,"endTime":656.64,"body":"to avoid putting the dog in that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":654.33,"endTime":656.64,"body":"situation in the first place."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":656.64,"endTime":659.88,"body":"Because it's not great for the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":656.64,"endTime":659.88,"body":"dog to be out there, reinforcing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":659.88,"endTime":662.1,"body":"that behavior, practicing that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":659.88,"endTime":662.1,"body":"behavior, because that's just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":662.1,"endTime":666.12,"body":"again, gonna really increase the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":662.1,"endTime":666.12,"body":"chances of it happening in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":666.12,"endTime":669.54,"body":"future, it gives us some of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":666.12,"endTime":669.54,"body":"these specific points that we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":669.54,"endTime":672.45,"body":"can address in terms of what's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":669.54,"endTime":672.45,"body":"going on with that dog's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":672.45,"endTime":676.59,"body":"behavior. And as I say, in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":672.45,"endTime":676.59,"body":"human therapy world, we've got"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":676.59,"endTime":679.35,"body":"lots of potential solutions for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":676.59,"endTime":679.35,"body":"these as well, obviously, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":679.35,"endTime":683.1,"body":"more specific things to the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":679.35,"endTime":683.1,"body":"issue and how we can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":683.1,"endTime":687.03,"body":"specifically manage that issue."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":683.1,"endTime":687.03,"body":"But also, some more sort of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":687.03,"endTime":689.55,"body":"contemporary treatments that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":687.03,"endTime":689.55,"body":"we're seeing pop up in human"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":689.55,"endTime":693.42,"body":"psychology. And like I said, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":689.55,"endTime":693.42,"body":"attentional training could"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":693.42,"endTime":696.51,"body":"certainly be interesting and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":693.42,"endTime":696.51,"body":"useful for dogs. And I suppose"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":696.51,"endTime":698.46,"body":"if we were looking at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":696.51,"endTime":698.46,"body":"translating that one for dogs,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":698.46,"endTime":701.13,"body":"and I, I, sadly, I can't tell"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":698.46,"endTime":701.13,"body":"you whether this is something"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":701.13,"endTime":703.2,"body":"that would work or not, because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":701.13,"endTime":703.2,"body":"there's just not the research"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":703.2,"endTime":706.02,"body":"there. But we could look at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":703.2,"endTime":706.02,"body":"something like trying some sort"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":706.02,"endTime":708.78,"body":"of attentional training with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":706.02,"endTime":708.78,"body":"dogs. And we could look at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":708.81,"endTime":711.48,"body":"working on some sort of idea"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":708.81,"endTime":711.48,"body":"that, that if they become very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":711.48,"endTime":714.96,"body":"attentive to perhaps one aspect"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":711.48,"endTime":714.96,"body":"of maybe your clothes, or maybe"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":714.96,"endTime":716.97,"body":"if you're an armband, and we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":714.96,"endTime":716.97,"body":"teach the dog actually, if they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":716.97,"endTime":720.3,"body":"look at that, for most of their"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":716.97,"endTime":720.3,"body":"walk, and they focus on that for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":720.3,"endTime":722.7,"body":"most of their walk, then they're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":720.3,"endTime":722.7,"body":"going to get some sort of reward"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":722.7,"endTime":725.61,"body":"for that. And that's actually"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":722.7,"endTime":725.61,"body":"kind of creeping into the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":725.61,"endTime":728.34,"body":"territory of attentional"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":725.61,"endTime":728.34,"body":"training, sort of mindfulness"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":728.34,"endTime":732.69,"body":"training, even, that we often"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":728.34,"endTime":732.69,"body":"see in human therapies. So as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":732.69,"endTime":736.17,"body":"well as giving us a really solid"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":732.69,"endTime":736.17,"body":"understanding of, again, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":736.17,"endTime":739.8,"body":"development and maintenance of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":736.17,"endTime":739.8,"body":"an issue that adults facing, it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":739.86,"endTime":742.65,"body":"also might point to some"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":739.86,"endTime":742.65,"body":"potential solutions and some"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":742.65,"endTime":745.14,"body":"potential new solutions as well,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":742.65,"endTime":745.14,"body":"which could be really, really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":745.14,"endTime":745.77,"body":"exciting."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":746.519,"endTime":748.709,"body":"Yeah, so many"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":746.519,"endTime":748.709,"body":"questions are coming to mind."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":748.709,"endTime":753.329,"body":"And it's really interesting how"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":748.709,"endTime":753.329,"body":"that framework, you know, kind"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":753.329,"endTime":756.089,"body":"of, again, looks at the whole"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":753.329,"endTime":756.089,"body":"picture, but it's also digging a"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":756.089,"endTime":758.699,"body":"little deeper into the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":756.089,"endTime":758.699,"body":"understanding of why the dogs"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":758.699,"endTime":762.089,"body":"are doing what they're doing. So"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":758.699,"endTime":762.089,"body":"you also talk about sort of"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":762.089,"endTime":765.209,"body":"these five P's and your"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":762.089,"endTime":765.209,"body":"formulation? Who can you cover?"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":765.389,"endTime":768.149,"body":"Kind of give us a brief synopsis"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":765.389,"endTime":768.149,"body":"of that? And then and then we"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":768.149,"endTime":770.189,"body":"can maybe plug a case into that"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":768.149,"endTime":770.189,"body":"and see Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":770.19,"endTime":773.34,"body":"absolutely, yeah. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":770.19,"endTime":773.34,"body":"that's something that's really,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":773.34,"endTime":775.5,"body":"really useful, especially when"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":773.34,"endTime":775.5,"body":"you're starting off from this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":775.5,"endTime":778.68,"body":"perspective, to understand"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":775.5,"endTime":778.68,"body":"again, all those different"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":778.68,"endTime":780.45,"body":"factors that I've kind of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":778.68,"endTime":780.45,"body":"mentioned, that might be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":780.45,"endTime":783.72,"body":"influencing a dog. So something,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":780.45,"endTime":783.72,"body":"as you say, that we use is this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":783.72,"endTime":789.33,"body":"five piece, and it's five, five"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":783.72,"endTime":789.33,"body":"of the kind of key aspects. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":789.51,"endTime":792.63,"body":"the five P's are presenting"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":789.51,"endTime":792.63,"body":"issues. So that's the issues"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":792.63,"endTime":796.26,"body":"that the dogs having that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":792.63,"endTime":796.26,"body":"persists pertaining factors. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":796.26,"endTime":801.81,"body":"things that occur before the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":796.26,"endTime":801.81,"body":"onset of again, if we say in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":801.81,"endTime":803.76,"body":"most examples, we're using"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":801.81,"endTime":803.76,"body":"probably on this podcast,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":803.76,"endTime":807.78,"body":"aggressive behavior, that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":803.76,"endTime":807.78,"body":"predisposing factors. So that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":807.78,"endTime":812.4,"body":"things that make dogs put dogs"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":807.78,"endTime":812.4,"body":"at higher risk of developing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":812.64,"endTime":817.44,"body":"potential behavioral problems,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":812.64,"endTime":817.44,"body":"the perpetuating factors. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":817.44,"endTime":819.75,"body":"those are things that are, those"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":817.44,"endTime":819.75,"body":"are, I think, probably the most"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":819.75,"endTime":822.3,"body":"one of the most important"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":819.75,"endTime":822.3,"body":"aspects of the five P's, those"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":822.3,"endTime":825.42,"body":"are things that are causing that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":822.3,"endTime":825.42,"body":"issue to be maintained, they are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":825.42,"endTime":829.17,"body":"causing the ongoing maintenance"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":825.42,"endTime":829.17,"body":"of that problem that the dogs"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":829.17,"endTime":831.57,"body":"having, those are things like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":829.17,"endTime":831.57,"body":"your own is potentially"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":831.57,"endTime":833.7,"body":"punishing the dog. Those are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":831.57,"endTime":833.7,"body":"things like the dog being put in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":833.7,"endTime":837.21,"body":"a situation where He's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":833.7,"endTime":837.21,"body":"rehearsing those behaviors. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":837.21,"endTime":840.18,"body":"finally, as well, which again,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":837.21,"endTime":840.18,"body":"is really, really important, is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":840.18,"endTime":843.18,"body":"the protective factors. And I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":840.18,"endTime":843.18,"body":"think this is something we often"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":843.18,"endTime":846.96,"body":"neglect to consider in dogs that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":843.18,"endTime":846.96,"body":"we see because we're always"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":846.96,"endTime":848.82,"body":"thinking about, Oh, okay, he's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":846.96,"endTime":848.82,"body":"at risk, because he's this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":848.82,"endTime":851.31,"body":"breed, or he's at risk, because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":848.82,"endTime":851.31,"body":"he's had this tough experience,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":851.31,"endTime":854.7,"body":"or she's at risk, because she's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":851.31,"endTime":854.7,"body":"had no socialization or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":854.7,"endTime":858.12,"body":"something like that. But there's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":854.7,"endTime":858.12,"body":"actually often really good"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":858.12,"endTime":860.55,"body":"protective factors that dogs"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":858.12,"endTime":860.55,"body":"have, and actually really good"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":860.55,"endTime":863.04,"body":"things that might indicate that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":860.55,"endTime":863.04,"body":"they respond really well to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":863.04,"endTime":866.34,"body":"behavioral treatments, that they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":863.04,"endTime":866.34,"body":"respond really well to whatever"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":866.34,"endTime":868.83,"body":"we might do with them to try and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":866.34,"endTime":868.83,"body":"get their stress under control"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":868.83,"endTime":872.01,"body":"and get maybe whatever behavior"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":868.83,"endTime":872.01,"body":"problem they are having a little"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":872.01,"endTime":873.51,"body":"bit better and better"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":872.01,"endTime":873.51,"body":"controlled."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":874.38,"endTime":876.51,"body":"So I love"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":874.38,"endTime":876.51,"body":"this because it really in my"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":876.51,"endTime":879.69,"body":"mind, in my mind, you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":876.51,"endTime":879.69,"body":"works analytically a lot in"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":879.69,"endTime":882.33,"body":"terms of you know, I love"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":879.69,"endTime":882.33,"body":"systems and frameworks, and when"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":882.33,"endTime":885.51,"body":"I'm thinking it's more"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":882.33,"endTime":885.51,"body":"mathematical, and I guess, if"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":885.51,"endTime":889.14,"body":"you're gonna put a label on it,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":885.51,"endTime":889.14,"body":"and then abstract when I'm"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":889.14,"endTime":893.16,"body":"working on assessing a case. And"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":889.14,"endTime":893.16,"body":"so I love this aspect of it."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":893.16,"endTime":894.84,"body":"Because you know, as you're"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":893.16,"endTime":894.84,"body":"saying all these things, I'm"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":894.84,"endTime":898.5,"body":"like, yes, yes, that's exactly a"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":894.84,"endTime":898.5,"body":"great way of assessing what's"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":898.5,"endTime":900.87,"body":"going on. So let's pluck a case."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":898.5,"endTime":900.87,"body":"So let's let's have some fun"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":900.87,"endTime":904.41,"body":"with this. And let's talk about"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":900.87,"endTime":904.41,"body":"a dog that I actually show a"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":904.41,"endTime":908.01,"body":"case, when I'm at conferences"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":904.41,"endTime":908.01,"body":"and workshops, every once in a"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":908.01,"endTime":910.65,"body":"while, it's his dog, Leo. So"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":908.01,"endTime":910.65,"body":"he's an American, Staffordshire,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":910.83,"endTime":914.82,"body":"purebred American staff. And"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":910.83,"endTime":914.82,"body":"he's about two years old when"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":914.82,"endTime":918.15,"body":"you come to see him, but he"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":914.82,"endTime":918.15,"body":"starts biting at around a year"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":918.15,"endTime":920.85,"body":"old. And he's been in, let's"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":918.15,"endTime":920.85,"body":"say, five different people. So"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":920.85,"endTime":924.21,"body":"if you were like, so and I'm"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":920.85,"endTime":924.21,"body":"sure the listeners could follow"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":924.21,"endTime":926.46,"body":"around and play behavior"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":924.21,"endTime":926.46,"body":"consultant here, when you get"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":926.46,"endTime":928.92,"body":"that information, what are the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":926.46,"endTime":928.92,"body":"first questions you asked? And"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":928.92,"endTime":932.01,"body":"sort of that five piece"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":928.92,"endTime":932.01,"body":"framework and also formulating?"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":932.31,"endTime":934.89,"body":"What's happening? In this case?"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":932.31,"endTime":934.89,"body":"We'll work through this case"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":934.89,"endTime":935.31,"body":"together."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":935.519,"endTime":938.729,"body":"Yeah, absolutely. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":935.519,"endTime":938.729,"body":"the first thing, obviously, that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":938.729,"endTime":941.639,"body":"we've kind of been given a fair"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":938.729,"endTime":941.639,"body":"overview of, are the presenting"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":941.639,"endTime":945.329,"body":"issues. So we know that he has"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":941.639,"endTime":945.329,"body":"started biting people is people,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":945.329,"endTime":949.139,"body":"right? Yes, just with great with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":945.329,"endTime":949.139,"body":"dogs, he started biting just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":949.139,"endTime":951.509,"body":"people. And he's great with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":949.139,"endTime":951.509,"body":"dogs. So that's, that's great."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":951.509,"endTime":953.039,"body":"And we can come back to that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":951.509,"endTime":953.039,"body":"when we're thinking about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":953.039,"endTime":956.159,"body":"Protective Factors later, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":953.039,"endTime":956.159,"body":"the issue that we're facing is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":956.159,"endTime":959.459,"body":"biting people. And I would want"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":956.159,"endTime":959.459,"body":"to dig a little bit deeper into"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":959.459,"endTime":962.489,"body":"where he's biting those people."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":959.459,"endTime":962.489,"body":"What is the situation in which"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":962.489,"endTime":965.219,"body":"he bites people? Do we have any"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":962.489,"endTime":965.219,"body":"information on that? We do."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":965.219,"endTime":967.949,"body":"So he bites"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":965.219,"endTime":967.949,"body":"from the waist down. And so he"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":967.949,"endTime":972.569,"body":"likes to bite, ankles, calves,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":967.949,"endTime":972.569,"body":"you know, a hand if it's lower"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":972.569,"endTime":975.509,"body":"than the waist level, so I hand"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":972.569,"endTime":975.509,"body":"that reach out to him. So his"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":975.509,"endTime":978.299,"body":"five bites have all been towards"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":975.509,"endTime":978.299,"body":"people's legs. And it is"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":978.329,"endTime":981.089,"body":"generally towards strangers. So"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":978.329,"endTime":981.089,"body":"people he doesn't know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":981.269,"endTime":984.059,"body":"generally when they're"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":981.269,"endTime":984.059,"body":"approaching him. So if he's if"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":984.119,"endTime":986.669,"body":"the person is at a distance, he"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":984.119,"endTime":986.669,"body":"doesn't seek out to try to bite"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":986.669,"endTime":989.339,"body":"them, it's when they kind of"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":986.669,"endTime":989.339,"body":"break into his critical distance"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":989.339,"endTime":990.719,"body":"or his personal space."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":991.71,"endTime":993.81,"body":"So it's that kind of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":991.71,"endTime":993.81,"body":"invasion of personal space, that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":993.81,"endTime":997.62,"body":"seems to be the big trigger that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":993.81,"endTime":997.62,"body":"we can see. Yeah. So I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":997.65,"endTime":1001.79,"body":"that certainly is then a really,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":997.65,"endTime":1001.79,"body":"really good overview of what the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1001.79,"endTime":1004.34,"body":"presenting problem is, we know"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1001.79,"endTime":1004.34,"body":"exactly what's going on. If"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1004.34,"endTime":1007.4,"body":"someone needed to know why"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1004.34,"endTime":1007.4,"body":"you're here, you could explain"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1007.4,"endTime":1009.71,"body":"it extremely well with that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1007.4,"endTime":1009.71,"body":"information. So that's a really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1009.71,"endTime":1013.46,"body":"good start. But then obviously,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1009.71,"endTime":1013.46,"body":"we do want to understand what is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1013.49,"endTime":1016.67,"body":"causing that on a number of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1013.49,"endTime":1016.67,"body":"levels. So I would normally"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1016.67,"endTime":1019.73,"body":"start off with the predisposing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1016.67,"endTime":1019.73,"body":"factors. So those are the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1019.73,"endTime":1024.26,"body":"factors that put that dog at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1019.73,"endTime":1024.26,"body":"maybe higher risk of or put Leo,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1024.26,"endTime":1026.96,"body":"in this case, at higher risk of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1024.26,"endTime":1026.96,"body":"developing some of these"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1026.96,"endTime":1031.04,"body":"problems, again, we know is a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1026.96,"endTime":1031.04,"body":"Staffy. And is that right? Yes,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1031.07,"endTime":1033.59,"body":"yes. So yeah, so obviously,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1031.07,"endTime":1033.59,"body":"we've got the breed aspect, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1033.59,"endTime":1036.32,"body":"there is a potentially"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1033.59,"endTime":1036.32,"body":"theological contribution to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1036.32,"endTime":1041.12,"body":"that, as we hopefully know, with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1036.32,"endTime":1041.12,"body":"staff ease, and they are a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1041.12,"endTime":1044.69,"body":"little bit more prone to those"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1041.12,"endTime":1044.69,"body":"kind of bite hole behaviors. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1044.69,"endTime":1047.54,"body":"we also know that there's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1044.69,"endTime":1047.54,"body":"certain perceptual differences"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1047.57,"endTime":1050.6,"body":"in how people respond to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1047.57,"endTime":1050.6,"body":"staffers when they see them out"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1050.6,"endTime":1054.92,"body":"and about, because, for example,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1050.6,"endTime":1054.92,"body":"I live in the UK. And I travel"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1054.92,"endTime":1058.94,"body":"kind of all over the southeast"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1054.92,"endTime":1058.94,"body":"when I'm seeing dogs. So I see"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1058.94,"endTime":1062.03,"body":"some dogs in London, and I see"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1058.94,"endTime":1062.03,"body":"some stuff is in London. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1062.03,"endTime":1064.7,"body":"this is a big generalization."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1062.03,"endTime":1064.7,"body":"But in the area of London, where"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1064.7,"endTime":1068.03,"body":"I see a lot of staff is they are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1064.7,"endTime":1068.03,"body":"super popular, that everyone"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1068.03,"endTime":1071.06,"body":"loves them, right. And if people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1068.03,"endTime":1071.06,"body":"see staff is they want to give"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1071.06,"endTime":1073.52,"body":"them a hug, they want to say hi"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1071.06,"endTime":1073.52,"body":"to them, because they're just a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1073.52,"endTime":1075.89,"body":"really popular breed in that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1073.52,"endTime":1075.89,"body":"area. And they're really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1076.01,"endTime":1078.41,"body":"considered really affectionate,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1076.01,"endTime":1078.41,"body":"they're considered really good"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1078.41,"endTime":1083.96,"body":"pets. So the behavior of people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1078.41,"endTime":1083.96,"body":"towards dafis in that sort of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1083.96,"endTime":1088.1,"body":"area of London or ice dogs is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1083.96,"endTime":1088.1,"body":"very different to my hometown,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1088.28,"endTime":1091.76,"body":"where it's a little bit more, a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1088.28,"endTime":1091.76,"body":"little bit more of a sort of, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1091.76,"endTime":1097.55,"body":"would say, a cockapoo, poodle"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1091.76,"endTime":1097.55,"body":"Labrador sort of area. So you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1097.55,"endTime":1100.79,"body":"get a very, very different"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1097.55,"endTime":1100.79,"body":"perception. Whereas if a staff"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1100.79,"endTime":1105.56,"body":"has been walked in my hometown,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1100.79,"endTime":1105.56,"body":"as if a staff has been walked in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1105.59,"endTime":1109.01,"body":"the area of London, where I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1105.59,"endTime":1109.01,"body":"often see them. So the different"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1109.01,"endTime":1111.89,"body":"behaviors that we might be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1109.01,"endTime":1111.89,"body":"seeing from people can certainly"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1111.92,"endTime":1115.85,"body":"influence the way that the dogs"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1111.92,"endTime":1115.85,"body":"developing as well. And that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1115.85,"endTime":1118.94,"body":"definitely something to consider"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1115.85,"endTime":1118.94,"body":"in those predisposing factors."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1118.97,"endTime":1123.74,"body":"Where is this dog location wise?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1118.97,"endTime":1123.74,"body":"And how might that influence the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1123.74,"endTime":1126.71,"body":"development of their issues, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1123.74,"endTime":1126.71,"body":"he also has this dog moved,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1126.74,"endTime":1129.74,"body":"because him you might have a dog"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1126.74,"endTime":1129.74,"body":"that, for example, come from an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1129.74,"endTime":1132.68,"body":"area, as I say, where staff is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1129.74,"endTime":1132.68,"body":"really, really loved, and then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1132.68,"endTime":1134.54,"body":"suddenly got to an area where"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1132.68,"endTime":1134.54,"body":"there's not a lot of staff is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1134.54,"endTime":1136.73,"body":"around. So when people see this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1134.54,"endTime":1136.73,"body":"Daffy, they're thinking, Oh, my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1136.73,"endTime":1139.46,"body":"gosh, what's this thing, I'm not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1136.73,"endTime":1139.46,"body":"used to seeing this sort of this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1139.46,"endTime":1142.28,"body":"sort of dough in my area. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1139.46,"endTime":1142.28,"body":"there's certainly a lot of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1142.28,"endTime":1145.31,"body":"variation in between in just how"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1142.28,"endTime":1145.31,"body":"people respond to dogs. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1145.31,"endTime":1148.43,"body":"that's just one kind of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1145.31,"endTime":1148.43,"body":"predisposing factor. The other"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1148.43,"endTime":1151.25,"body":"thing again, without wanting to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1148.43,"endTime":1151.25,"body":"repeat myself too much, we can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1151.25,"endTime":1153.98,"body":"think about the genetics of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1151.25,"endTime":1153.98,"body":"dog, we can think about the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1153.98,"endTime":1156.5,"body":"theology of the dog, we can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1153.98,"endTime":1156.5,"body":"think about whether that dogs"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1156.5,"endTime":1159.32,"body":"had any developmental"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1156.5,"endTime":1159.32,"body":"difficulties and a developmental"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1159.32,"endTime":1162.95,"body":"trauma that could be influencing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1159.32,"endTime":1162.95,"body":"their behavior at all as well."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1163.07,"endTime":1165.71,"body":"So we can certainly dig around"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1163.07,"endTime":1165.71,"body":"all those sorts of areas for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1165.71,"endTime":1167.63,"body":"thinking about the predisposing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1165.71,"endTime":1167.63,"body":"factors."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1168.23,"endTime":1169.58,"body":"Yeah, it's"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1168.23,"endTime":1169.58,"body":"really interesting, you bring up"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1169.58,"endTime":1174.41,"body":"the cultural aspects and the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1169.58,"endTime":1174.41,"body":"influence of humans because we"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1174.41,"endTime":1177.41,"body":"sometimes forget about just how"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1174.41,"endTime":1177.41,"body":"much the humans are influencing"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1177.41,"endTime":1180.35,"body":"the behavior of the animal and"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1177.41,"endTime":1180.35,"body":"their interactions and their"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1180.35,"endTime":1184.4,"body":"perspectives. And you go in an"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1180.35,"endTime":1184.4,"body":"area, if like, as you mentioned,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1184.4,"endTime":1186.95,"body":"if it's a dog that everybody's"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1184.4,"endTime":1186.95,"body":"kind of steering clear off"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1186.95,"endTime":1190.67,"body":"avoiding in versus scenario"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1186.95,"endTime":1190.67,"body":"where I was ago, I love these"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1190.67,"endTime":1192.92,"body":"dogs, and they've always coming"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1190.67,"endTime":1192.92,"body":"up to the dogs just how much"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1192.92,"endTime":1197.3,"body":"that can impact the overall"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1192.92,"endTime":1197.3,"body":"social behavior of that animal."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1197.57,"endTime":1200.0,"body":"And we don't think about I don't"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1197.57,"endTime":1200.0,"body":"think enough so it's I'm glad"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1200.0,"endTime":1201.86,"body":"Had you brought up that point,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1200.0,"endTime":1201.86,"body":"Daniel, because it's an"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1201.86,"endTime":1204.95,"body":"important one to consider. So"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1201.86,"endTime":1204.95,"body":"yeah, so continue on with your"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1204.95,"endTime":1207.08,"body":"line of questioning about Leo."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1204.95,"endTime":1207.08,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1207.08,"endTime":1209.57,"body":"So the other thing that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1207.08,"endTime":1209.57,"body":"we might look at, again, from an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1209.57,"endTime":1212.9,"body":"early standpoint is the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1209.57,"endTime":1212.9,"body":"protective factors. So what is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1212.9,"endTime":1217.1,"body":"actually Leo got going in his"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1212.9,"endTime":1217.1,"body":"favor, that means he might"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1217.1,"endTime":1221.18,"body":"respond really well to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1217.1,"endTime":1221.18,"body":"treatment. So we're going to get"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1221.18,"endTime":1223.13,"body":"a bit of a clue just from the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1221.18,"endTime":1223.13,"body":"fact that the owners have come"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1223.13,"endTime":1226.25,"body":"to see you. Because actually,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1223.13,"endTime":1226.25,"body":"they obviously have a certain"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1226.25,"endTime":1229.67,"body":"amount of dedication to wanting"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1226.25,"endTime":1229.67,"body":"to help the dog out, right. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1229.7,"endTime":1232.58,"body":"upon meeting them, you're going"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1229.7,"endTime":1232.58,"body":"to get a bit of information in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1232.58,"endTime":1235.46,"body":"terms of what sort of timescales"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1232.58,"endTime":1235.46,"body":"they're working with, what sort"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1235.46,"endTime":1238.1,"body":"of work life balance that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1235.46,"endTime":1238.1,"body":"they've got, they might be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1238.1,"endTime":1241.25,"body":"working from home, they might be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1238.1,"endTime":1241.25,"body":"in the office nine to five, very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1241.25,"endTime":1244.37,"body":"different stories in terms of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1241.25,"endTime":1244.37,"body":"how much input they're going to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1244.37,"endTime":1248.06,"body":"be able to put in for Leo. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1244.37,"endTime":1248.06,"body":"then also his personal factors."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1248.06,"endTime":1251.57,"body":"So whether he's maybe come from"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1248.06,"endTime":1251.57,"body":"a really, really good home, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1251.57,"endTime":1254.48,"body":"previously, so maybe spend lots"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1251.57,"endTime":1254.48,"body":"of time with his mom had really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1254.48,"endTime":1257.72,"body":"good developmental experiences,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1254.48,"endTime":1257.72,"body":"been socialized really, really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1257.72,"endTime":1260.36,"body":"nicely gone through all those"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1257.72,"endTime":1260.36,"body":"things, that might be really,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1260.36,"endTime":1263.51,"body":"really good. If he has done"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1260.36,"endTime":1263.51,"body":"that, then that's gonna be good"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1263.51,"endTime":1265.82,"body":"news for us, because that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1263.51,"endTime":1265.82,"body":"indicates that he might have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1265.82,"endTime":1267.83,"body":"some protective elements in his"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1265.82,"endTime":1267.83,"body":"favor."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1268.31,"endTime":1270.2,"body":"He has a lot"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1268.31,"endTime":1270.2,"body":"of protective elements in his"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1270.2,"endTime":1274.61,"body":"favor. He has literally one of"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1270.2,"endTime":1274.61,"body":"the best owners on the planet,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1274.61,"endTime":1278.72,"body":"and so dedicated to this dog,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1274.61,"endTime":1278.72,"body":"she's mentioned many times that"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1278.93,"endTime":1282.14,"body":"I'm not going anywhere, and the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1278.93,"endTime":1282.14,"body":"dogs not going anywhere. Meaning"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1282.32,"endTime":1286.43,"body":"I'm, I'm stuck with her as her"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1282.32,"endTime":1286.43,"body":"consultant and trainer. And"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1286.46,"endTime":1289.55,"body":"she's completely dedicated to"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1286.46,"endTime":1289.55,"body":"this dog. So and she lives by"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1289.55,"endTime":1293.12,"body":"herself, so no other people in"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1289.55,"endTime":1293.12,"body":"the home to worry about closing"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1293.15,"endTime":1297.89,"body":"doors or anything like that, and"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1293.15,"endTime":1297.89,"body":"managing the situation. So yes,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1297.89,"endTime":1300.41,"body":"a lot of positives in that"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1297.89,"endTime":1300.41,"body":"protective factor."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1300.53,"endTime":1303.08,"body":"Brilliant. So yeah, so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1300.53,"endTime":1303.08,"body":"we that's definitely a big"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1303.08,"endTime":1305.63,"body":"positive as well, as you say"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1303.08,"endTime":1305.63,"body":"that living by herself, in her"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1305.63,"endTime":1309.2,"body":"case, is a big positive and, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1305.63,"endTime":1309.2,"body":"we could, if we had something"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1309.2,"endTime":1311.21,"body":"like another adult in the home,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1309.2,"endTime":1311.21,"body":"that could potentially be a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1311.21,"endTime":1313.7,"body":"protective factor. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1311.21,"endTime":1313.7,"body":"particularly with a dog that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1313.7,"endTime":1316.55,"body":"maybe got some aggression"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1313.7,"endTime":1316.55,"body":"issues, if you had two kids in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1316.55,"endTime":1319.16,"body":"the home, and I know kids being"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1316.55,"endTime":1319.16,"body":"kids obviously want to have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1319.16,"endTime":1321.02,"body":"friends around, and they want to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1319.16,"endTime":1321.02,"body":"hang out with their mates and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1321.02,"endTime":1324.14,"body":"they want to do stuff like that,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1321.02,"endTime":1324.14,"body":"that could then be slipping into"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1324.23,"endTime":1327.65,"body":"more of a perpetuating factor,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1324.23,"endTime":1327.65,"body":"something that might make that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1327.68,"endTime":1330.11,"body":"distress a little bit worse. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1327.68,"endTime":1330.11,"body":"we can talk about that in a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1330.11,"endTime":1333.95,"body":"little bit. So certain factors"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1330.11,"endTime":1333.95,"body":"aren't necessarily guaranteed to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1333.95,"endTime":1337.22,"body":"be a factor as well, it might be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1333.95,"endTime":1337.22,"body":"something in for some dog, this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1337.22,"endTime":1340.7,"body":"might be a protective factor."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1337.22,"endTime":1340.7,"body":"For some dogs, it might be a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1341.27,"endTime":1344.63,"body":"sort of predisposing factor or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1341.27,"endTime":1344.63,"body":"perpetuating factor. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1344.63,"endTime":1348.68,"body":"different sort of items or facts"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1344.63,"endTime":1348.68,"body":"about the dog can fall into"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1348.68,"endTime":1351.23,"body":"these different categories,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1348.68,"endTime":1351.23,"body":"depending on the situation as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1351.23,"endTime":1355.19,"body":"well. So it is context"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1351.23,"endTime":1355.19,"body":"dependent. So yeah, that the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1355.19,"endTime":1360.89,"body":"next factor that we might look"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1355.19,"endTime":1360.89,"body":"at is that precipitating aspect."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1360.95,"endTime":1364.82,"body":"And this is something that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1360.95,"endTime":1364.82,"body":"actually I wouldn't say we see"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1364.85,"endTime":1367.73,"body":"with every single dog. But it is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1364.85,"endTime":1367.73,"body":"something that occurs quite a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1367.73,"endTime":1372.32,"body":"lot that there's this one off"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1367.73,"endTime":1372.32,"body":"incident that might have come"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1372.32,"endTime":1374.63,"body":"just before the distress started"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1372.32,"endTime":1374.63,"body":"or a little bit before the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1374.63,"endTime":1378.65,"body":"distress started. And the dog."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1374.63,"endTime":1378.65,"body":"So an example of this in humans"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1378.65,"endTime":1381.2,"body":"would be that we'll look at in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1378.65,"endTime":1381.2,"body":"humans, if we're doing this sort"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1381.2,"endTime":1383.93,"body":"of formulation is we'd say,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1381.2,"endTime":1383.93,"body":"okay, maybe there's been some"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1383.93,"endTime":1385.97,"body":"sort of change in your life,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1383.93,"endTime":1385.97,"body":"some sort of bereavement,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1386.15,"endTime":1389.6,"body":"potentially, some sort of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1386.15,"endTime":1389.6,"body":"accident, something like that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1389.66,"endTime":1393.77,"body":"some sort of big change loss of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1389.66,"endTime":1393.77,"body":"a job, that might be influencing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1393.89,"endTime":1396.71,"body":"the future behavior for a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1393.89,"endTime":1396.71,"body":"certain period of time. So if"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1396.71,"endTime":1399.56,"body":"we're thinking about dogs, this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1396.71,"endTime":1399.56,"body":"would be things like maybe if"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1399.56,"endTime":1402.17,"body":"they've moved home, or maybe if"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1399.56,"endTime":1402.17,"body":"they've been attacked by another"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1402.17,"endTime":1406.34,"body":"dog in the park, or maybe if"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1402.17,"endTime":1406.34,"body":"they've had a bad experience"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1406.34,"endTime":1410.99,"body":"with a human coming along and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1406.34,"endTime":1410.99,"body":"and hurting them, or maybe not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1410.99,"endTime":1413.63,"body":"even hurting them, but just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1410.99,"endTime":1413.63,"body":"scaring them. So in the case of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1413.63,"endTime":1415.91,"body":"Leo, that's the kind of things"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1413.63,"endTime":1415.91,"body":"that we might be looking at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1415.91,"endTime":1418.04,"body":"whether he's had any bad"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1415.91,"endTime":1418.04,"body":"experiences with humans, whether"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1418.04,"endTime":1420.71,"body":"there has been some sort of one"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1418.04,"endTime":1420.71,"body":"off event, or something like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1420.71,"endTime":1425.21,"body":"that, that might have sort of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1420.71,"endTime":1425.21,"body":"triggered the initial cascade of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1425.21,"endTime":1426.23,"body":"these issues developing."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1428.66,"endTime":1430.4,"body":"All right,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1428.66,"endTime":1430.4,"body":"we're gonna take a short break."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1430.43,"endTime":1432.74,"body":"And when we come back, we're"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1430.43,"endTime":1432.74,"body":"going to hear more about Daniel"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1432.74,"endTime":1439.64,"body":"systematic formulation approach"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1432.74,"endTime":1439.64,"body":"to changing behavior. Hey,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1439.64,"endTime":1442.46,"body":"friends, it's me again, and I"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1439.64,"endTime":1442.46,"body":"hope you are enjoying this"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1442.46,"endTime":1445.79,"body":"episode, you may have figured"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1442.46,"endTime":1445.79,"body":"out that something I deeply care"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1445.79,"endTime":1448.49,"body":"about is helping dogs with"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1445.79,"endTime":1448.49,"body":"aggression issues live less"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1448.49,"endTime":1452.72,"body":"stressful, less confined, more"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1448.49,"endTime":1452.72,"body":"enriched, and overall happy"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1452.72,"endTime":1455.63,"body":"lives with their guardians."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1452.72,"endTime":1455.63,"body":"Aggression is so often"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1455.63,"endTime":1458.09,"body":"misunderstood. And we can change"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1455.63,"endTime":1458.09,"body":"that through continued"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1458.09,"endTime":1461.06,"body":"education, like we received from"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1458.09,"endTime":1461.06,"body":"so many of the wonderful guests"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1461.06,"endTime":1464.36,"body":"on this podcast. In addition to"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1461.06,"endTime":1464.36,"body":"the podcast, I have two other"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1464.36,"endTime":1467.24,"body":"opportunities for anyone looking"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1464.36,"endTime":1467.24,"body":"to learn more about helping dogs"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1467.24,"endTime":1469.67,"body":"with aggression issues, which"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1467.24,"endTime":1469.67,"body":"include the aggression in dogs"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1469.67,"endTime":1473.06,"body":"master course, in the aggression"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1469.67,"endTime":1473.06,"body":"in dogs conference. If you want"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1473.06,"endTime":1475.37,"body":"to learn more about the most"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1473.06,"endTime":1475.37,"body":"comprehensive course on"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1475.37,"endTime":1477.8,"body":"aggression taught anywhere in"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1475.37,"endTime":1477.8,"body":"the world, head on over to"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1477.83,"endTime":1482.12,"body":"aggressive dog.com and click on"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1477.83,"endTime":1482.12,"body":"the dog pros tab, and then the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1482.12,"endTime":1485.69,"body":"master course. The course gives"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1482.12,"endTime":1485.69,"body":"you access to 23 modules on"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1485.69,"endTime":1489.68,"body":"everything from assessment, to"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1485.69,"endTime":1489.68,"body":"safety to medical issues to the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1489.68,"endTime":1492.68,"body":"behavior change plans we often"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1489.68,"endTime":1492.68,"body":"use in a number of different"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1492.68,"endTime":1496.73,"body":"cases, including lessons taught"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1492.68,"endTime":1496.73,"body":"by Dr. Chris pockle, Kim Brophy"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1496.76,"endTime":1499.94,"body":"and Jessica Dolce. You'll also"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1496.76,"endTime":1499.94,"body":"receive access to a private"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1500.0,"endTime":1503.39,"body":"Facebook group with over 1000 of"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1500.0,"endTime":1503.39,"body":"your fellow colleagues, and dog"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1503.39,"endTime":1506.6,"body":"pros all working with aggression"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1503.39,"endTime":1506.6,"body":"cases. After you finish the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1506.6,"endTime":1509.9,"body":"course you also gain access to"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1506.6,"endTime":1509.9,"body":"private live group mentor"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1509.9,"endTime":1513.05,"body":"sessions with me, where we work"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1509.9,"endTime":1513.05,"body":"through practicing many"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1513.05,"endTime":1516.26,"body":"different cases together. If you"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1513.05,"endTime":1516.26,"body":"need see us, we've got you"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1516.26,"endTime":1519.11,"body":"covered. We're approved for just"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1516.26,"endTime":1519.11,"body":"about every major training and"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1519.11,"endTime":1522.17,"body":"behavior credential out there."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1519.11,"endTime":1522.17,"body":"This is truly the flagship"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1522.17,"endTime":1525.08,"body":"course offered on aggression in"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1522.17,"endTime":1525.08,"body":"dogs, and it's perfect for pet"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1525.08,"endTime":1528.23,"body":"pros that want to set themselves"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1525.08,"endTime":1528.23,"body":"apart and take their knowledge"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1528.23,"endTime":1531.26,"body":"and expertise to the next level"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1528.23,"endTime":1531.26,"body":"are we doing for pet owners who"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1531.26,"endTime":1534.44,"body":"are seeking information to help"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1531.26,"endTime":1534.44,"body":"their own dog and don't forget"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1534.44,"endTime":1537.14,"body":"to join me for the third annual"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1534.44,"endTime":1537.14,"body":"aggression in dogs conference,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1537.17,"endTime":1540.77,"body":"either in person or online from"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1537.17,"endTime":1540.77,"body":"Providence Rhode Island on"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1540.77,"endTime":1544.94,"body":"September 30 Through October"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1540.77,"endTime":1544.94,"body":"2 2022. This year's lineup"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1544.94,"endTime":1547.52,"body":"includes many of the amazing"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1544.94,"endTime":1547.52,"body":"guests you might have heard on"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1547.52,"endTime":1550.85,"body":"the podcast including Suzanne"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1547.52,"endTime":1550.85,"body":"Cole the air, Jen Shryock,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1550.85,"endTime":1554.87,"body":"Simone Mueller, Dr. Ampere,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1550.85,"endTime":1554.87,"body":"Batson Kim Brophy charisma"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1554.87,"endTime":1559.37,"body":"voire. Learn Monaco to rally Dr."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1554.87,"endTime":1559.37,"body":"Simone Gadbois, and many more,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1559.7,"endTime":1562.1,"body":"head on over to aggressive"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1559.7,"endTime":1562.1,"body":"dog.com and click on the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1562.1,"endTime":1565.43,"body":"conference tab to learn more"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1562.1,"endTime":1565.43,"body":"about the exciting agenda on"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1565.43,"endTime":1568.31,"body":"everything from advanced"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1565.43,"endTime":1568.31,"body":"concepts and leash reactivity to"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1568.31,"endTime":1571.61,"body":"using positive reinforcement to"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1568.31,"endTime":1571.61,"body":"work with predatory behavior."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1572.15,"endTime":1574.73,"body":"And if you'd like to show off"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1572.15,"endTime":1574.73,"body":"your support for the podcast"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1574.94,"endTime":1577.13,"body":"this year, we teamed up again"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1574.94,"endTime":1577.13,"body":"with the folks over at Wolf"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1577.13,"endTime":1581.48,"body":"culture for some catchy limited"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1577.13,"endTime":1581.48,"body":"run conference merchandise. Wolf"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1581.48,"endTime":1584.75,"body":"culture is known for their"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1581.48,"endTime":1584.75,"body":"witty, nerdy endo nonsense"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1584.75,"endTime":1588.65,"body":"apparel that was created in"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1584.75,"endTime":1588.65,"body":"2019. To spread more awareness"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1588.65,"endTime":1591.59,"body":"towards the use of humane"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1588.65,"endTime":1591.59,"body":"training methods there"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1591.59,"endTime":1595.1,"body":"PowerShell is here to help you"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1591.59,"endTime":1595.1,"body":"start conversations, advocate"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1595.1,"endTime":1598.37,"body":"for your animals and rep force"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1595.1,"endTime":1598.37,"body":"retraining in a different way."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1598.79,"endTime":1600.92,"body":"Don't forget to get your"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1598.79,"endTime":1600.92,"body":"conference gear it leaves the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1600.92,"endTime":1606.65,"body":"site after 1231 2022. If you"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1600.92,"endTime":1606.65,"body":"want 10% off your order, use the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1606.65,"endTime":1611.9,"body":"code bitey 10, bi t y one zero"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1606.65,"endTime":1611.9,"body":"at checkout."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1618.35,"endTime":1621.08,"body":"All right, we're back with the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1618.35,"endTime":1621.08,"body":"insightful Daniel show where"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1621.08,"endTime":1624.44,"body":"we're working a simple case"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1621.08,"endTime":1624.44,"body":"study with a dog named Leo,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1624.62,"endTime":1627.65,"body":"using Daniel systematic"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1624.62,"endTime":1627.65,"body":"formulation approach to behavior"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1627.65,"endTime":1631.28,"body":"change. So I guess I'll ask you"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1627.65,"endTime":1631.28,"body":"this question or I'll give you"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1631.28,"endTime":1634.43,"body":"the details. First, he's adopted"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1631.28,"endTime":1634.43,"body":"at an early age, I think around"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1634.43,"endTime":1638.51,"body":"10 weeks old. So not a whole lot"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1634.43,"endTime":1638.51,"body":"of background on where he came"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1638.51,"endTime":1642.44,"body":"from. He was from a rescue. She"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1638.51,"endTime":1642.44,"body":"did a lot of socialization early"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1642.44,"endTime":1648.44,"body":"on, in her recollection, started"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1642.44,"endTime":1648.44,"body":"to see more barking at strangers"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1648.44,"endTime":1652.79,"body":"growling at some strangers,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1648.44,"endTime":1652.79,"body":"avoidance of strangers. And this"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1652.79,"endTime":1656.18,"body":"started at an early age. So she"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1652.79,"endTime":1656.18,"body":"hired a trainer before she"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1656.18,"endTime":1660.17,"body":"started working with me using a"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1656.18,"endTime":1660.17,"body":"prawn collar or sort of"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1660.17,"endTime":1663.08,"body":"dominance based techniques,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1660.17,"endTime":1663.08,"body":"because of the barking and"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1663.08,"endTime":1665.6,"body":"lunging on walks. So growling,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1663.08,"endTime":1665.6,"body":"barking lunging, pulling on"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1665.6,"endTime":1668.27,"body":"leash towards people on walks."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1665.6,"endTime":1668.27,"body":"And that was the initial"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1668.66,"endTime":1671.63,"body":"presenting behavior. And then"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1668.66,"endTime":1671.63,"body":"they were effectively able to"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1671.63,"endTime":1676.01,"body":"suppress those signals. So the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1671.63,"endTime":1676.01,"body":"barking and the growling stops"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1676.04,"endTime":1679.55,"body":"with the use of the prong"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1676.04,"endTime":1679.55,"body":"collar. But he still was going"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1679.55,"endTime":1683.0,"body":"to biting so the signals were"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1679.55,"endTime":1683.0,"body":"effectively suppressed. But the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1683.21,"endTime":1686.3,"body":"biting was still happening so"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1683.21,"endTime":1686.3,"body":"that the actual first bite"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1686.3,"endTime":1689.15,"body":"started happening. I think that"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1686.3,"endTime":1689.15,"body":"he was about seven or eight"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1689.15,"endTime":1692.36,"body":"months old, pretty pretty young"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1689.15,"endTime":1692.36,"body":"when he first started. So where"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1692.36,"endTime":1695.45,"body":"would that fall? Would you Would"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1692.36,"endTime":1695.45,"body":"that maybe be early experiences?"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1695.45,"endTime":1698.36,"body":"So predisposing factors or"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1695.45,"endTime":1698.36,"body":"because it may not necessarily"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1698.36,"endTime":1702.29,"body":"be precipitating factor, right?"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1698.36,"endTime":1702.29,"body":"Because it's we can argue that"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1702.29,"endTime":1704.84,"body":"the behavior was occurring"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1702.29,"endTime":1704.84,"body":"before the training started. But"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1704.84,"endTime":1708.23,"body":"the training was maybe something"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1704.84,"endTime":1708.23,"body":"that was a perpetuating factor."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1708.23,"endTime":1710.18,"body":"So how would you how would you"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1708.23,"endTime":1710.18,"body":"counter? How would you"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1710.18,"endTime":1710.99,"body":"categorize that?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1711.35,"endTime":1713.75,"body":"Yeah, absolutely. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1711.35,"endTime":1713.75,"body":"this is where it gets messy,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1713.75,"endTime":1716.9,"body":"right? Because this is where we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1713.75,"endTime":1716.9,"body":"could probably argue about this."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1716.9,"endTime":1720.77,"body":"And all both very, very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1716.9,"endTime":1720.77,"body":"reasonably argued that this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1720.77,"endTime":1723.74,"body":"could fall into different"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1720.77,"endTime":1723.74,"body":"categories. To me, it is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1723.74,"endTime":1725.57,"body":"something that's probably made"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1723.74,"endTime":1725.57,"body":"that distress a little bit"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1725.57,"endTime":1728.78,"body":"worse. Although he had those"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1725.57,"endTime":1728.78,"body":"behaviors beforehand, it does"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1728.78,"endTime":1732.65,"body":"sound like it exacerbated them,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1728.78,"endTime":1732.65,"body":"because no dog responds"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1732.65,"endTime":1735.98,"body":"particularly well to being"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1732.65,"endTime":1735.98,"body":"brought out and choked every"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1735.98,"endTime":1739.31,"body":"single time he sees maybe a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1735.98,"endTime":1739.31,"body":"person because that's just from"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1739.31,"endTime":1741.86,"body":"a behavioral perspective that is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1739.31,"endTime":1741.86,"body":"going to condition more fear"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1742.1,"endTime":1745.82,"body":"around those humans or, or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1742.1,"endTime":1745.82,"body":"whatever he might be being"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1745.82,"endTime":1750.02,"body":"choked in the context of right."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1745.82,"endTime":1750.02,"body":"So it certainly could have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1750.02,"endTime":1753.44,"body":"enhanced that distress. But I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1750.02,"endTime":1753.44,"body":"think probably the best way to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1753.44,"endTime":1756.62,"body":"think of it is while that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1753.44,"endTime":1756.62,"body":"training was ongoing, that would"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1756.62,"endTime":1759.59,"body":"have been perpetuating the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1756.62,"endTime":1759.59,"body":"distress that would have been"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1759.59,"endTime":1762.35,"body":"making it worse for him, it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1759.59,"endTime":1762.35,"body":"would have been encouraging him"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1762.35,"endTime":1766.01,"body":"to continue associating humans"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1762.35,"endTime":1766.01,"body":"with bad things. So it would"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1766.01,"endTime":1770.3,"body":"have been maintaining that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1766.01,"endTime":1770.3,"body":"problem. But once it had stopped"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1770.3,"endTime":1773.09,"body":"that is something removed that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1770.3,"endTime":1773.09,"body":"was previously maintaining that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1773.09,"endTime":1776.12,"body":"problem. So I think it would"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1773.09,"endTime":1776.12,"body":"fall into potentially that sort"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1776.12,"endTime":1781.19,"body":"of partially precipitating"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1776.12,"endTime":1781.19,"body":"partially predisposing factor of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1781.19,"endTime":1782.93,"body":"something that has happened in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1781.19,"endTime":1782.93,"body":"the past that is going to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1782.93,"endTime":1786.5,"body":"influence that. But yeah, it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1782.93,"endTime":1786.5,"body":"not clear and it does get a bit"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1786.5,"endTime":1789.62,"body":"messy. And I think that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1786.5,"endTime":1789.62,"body":"definitely a really important"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1789.62,"endTime":1792.41,"body":"point in the sense that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1789.62,"endTime":1792.41,"body":"actually, sometimes these"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1792.41,"endTime":1796.07,"body":"frameworks we all have a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1792.41,"endTime":1796.07,"body":"framework, right? But sometimes"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1796.22,"endTime":1800.27,"body":"things don't fall in as neatly"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1796.22,"endTime":1800.27,"body":"as we hoped. So that's where We"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1800.27,"endTime":1802.19,"body":"need to consider the strengths"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1800.27,"endTime":1802.19,"body":"and weaknesses of these"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1802.19,"endTime":1806.39,"body":"individual frameworks that we're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1802.19,"endTime":1806.39,"body":"using as well. So the five P's,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1806.39,"endTime":1808.88,"body":"it's brilliant in terms of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1806.39,"endTime":1808.88,"body":"getting a really good picture of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1808.88,"endTime":1812.93,"body":"the case. But we could sometimes"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1808.88,"endTime":1812.93,"body":"argue about what might fall into"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1812.93,"endTime":1816.02,"body":"the different different factors"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1812.93,"endTime":1816.02,"body":"that we are seeing."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1816.05,"endTime":1817.73,"body":"And I think"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1816.05,"endTime":1817.73,"body":"that's actually a benefit to it."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1817.73,"endTime":1821.15,"body":"Because if it can fall into"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1817.73,"endTime":1821.15,"body":"several categories, depending on"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1821.15,"endTime":1824.15,"body":"when it occurred, and how it's"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1821.15,"endTime":1824.15,"body":"impacting the case, there's less"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1824.15,"endTime":1827.39,"body":"chance of missing it, right,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1824.15,"endTime":1827.39,"body":"versus a framework where"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1827.39,"endTime":1829.94,"body":"everything has to neatly fit"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1827.39,"endTime":1829.94,"body":"into a category or doesn't"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1829.94,"endTime":1832.46,"body":"belong in any of them, then we"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1829.94,"endTime":1832.46,"body":"might actually miss something."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1832.46,"endTime":1836.45,"body":"So for me in my the way my brain"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1832.46,"endTime":1836.45,"body":"works is like, I like that it"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1836.45,"endTime":1838.88,"body":"can be put into macarius."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1836.45,"endTime":1838.88,"body":"Because it makes us think about"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1838.88,"endTime":1842.3,"body":"it, it makes us say, Okay, what,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1838.88,"endTime":1842.3,"body":"what is impacting this case?"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1842.3,"endTime":1845.99,"body":"What is impacting the behavior"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1842.3,"endTime":1845.99,"body":"of that animal? And do we need"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1845.99,"endTime":1849.5,"body":"to adjust for it in a particular"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1845.99,"endTime":1849.5,"body":"part of the behavior change"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1849.5,"endTime":1853.28,"body":"strategy? Right? So, okay, so"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1849.5,"endTime":1853.28,"body":"keep going. So we've talked"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1853.28,"endTime":1856.28,"body":"about his why he's doing what"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1853.28,"endTime":1856.28,"body":"he's doing, we kind of have an"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1856.28,"endTime":1859.76,"body":"idea of the protective factors"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1856.28,"endTime":1859.76,"body":"and the perpetuating factors or"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1859.76,"endTime":1863.84,"body":"influences. What else would you"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1859.76,"endTime":1863.84,"body":"ask to continue forming this"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1863.84,"endTime":1865.13,"body":"robust picture?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1866.0,"endTime":1869.06,"body":"Yeah, so we know what's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1866.0,"endTime":1869.06,"body":"going on. We know what might"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1869.09,"endTime":1871.85,"body":"what might have come before in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1869.09,"endTime":1871.85,"body":"terms of the predisposing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1871.85,"endTime":1874.67,"body":"factors and the protective"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1871.85,"endTime":1874.67,"body":"factors are the kind of main one"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1874.67,"endTime":1879.29,"body":"we haven't focused on so much,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1874.67,"endTime":1879.29,"body":"is the perpetuating factors. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1879.41,"endTime":1883.07,"body":"what is causing that distress to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1879.41,"endTime":1883.07,"body":"be maintained for Leo? So we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1883.07,"endTime":1887.87,"body":"know that to a certain extent,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1883.07,"endTime":1887.87,"body":"we could have considered the the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1887.87,"endTime":1891.29,"body":"training he'd had with the other"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1887.87,"endTime":1891.29,"body":"trainer as something that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1891.29,"endTime":1893.72,"body":"perpetuates the issue, but his"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1891.29,"endTime":1893.72,"body":"issue is still going right. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1893.72,"endTime":1896.06,"body":"there's something else that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1893.72,"endTime":1896.06,"body":"perpetuating that issue. That's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1896.15,"endTime":1899.69,"body":"regardless of what sort of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1896.15,"endTime":1899.69,"body":"training he's in. So that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1899.69,"endTime":1902.42,"body":"where we've got to think about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1899.69,"endTime":1902.42,"body":"what is kind of Leo's routine"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1902.42,"endTime":1906.71,"body":"looking like, what does this dog"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1902.42,"endTime":1906.71,"body":"do over a 24 hour period? And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1906.74,"endTime":1909.89,"body":"what during that kind of 24 hour"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1906.74,"endTime":1909.89,"body":"period is maintaining that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1909.89,"endTime":1912.92,"body":"distress? So probably one of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1909.89,"endTime":1912.92,"body":"big ones for him? And I don't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1912.92,"endTime":1916.64,"body":"know, if this is the case with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1912.92,"endTime":1916.64,"body":"Leo, is potentially going out"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1916.64,"endTime":1918.98,"body":"and seeing people and having"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1916.64,"endTime":1918.98,"body":"that bad reaction? I mean, was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1918.98,"endTime":1919.91,"body":"he going out? And"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1920.029,"endTime":1922.969,"body":"oh, yes,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1920.029,"endTime":1922.969,"body":"yeah, you know, daily walk in,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1922.969,"endTime":1926.359,"body":"and he would go to dog daycare"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1922.969,"endTime":1926.359,"body":"as well. So there would be times"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1926.359,"endTime":1929.119,"body":"where you'd have to be taking on"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1926.359,"endTime":1929.119,"body":"leash, of course, past people."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1929.119,"endTime":1932.959,"body":"But, you know, he, he'd gotten"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1929.119,"endTime":1932.959,"body":"to the point where he, again,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1932.959,"endTime":1935.719,"body":"that the effect of suppressing"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1932.959,"endTime":1935.719,"body":"of the signals he'd be able to"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1935.719,"endTime":1938.809,"body":"walk by without making a, you"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1935.719,"endTime":1938.809,"body":"know, this big display that was"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1938.809,"endTime":1943.609,"body":"embarrassing for the owner. But"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1938.809,"endTime":1943.609,"body":"the issue started to as you had"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1943.609,"endTime":1947.929,"body":"mentioned, they were occurring"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1943.609,"endTime":1947.929,"body":"more so on leash, and more so"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1947.929,"endTime":1951.979,"body":"outside the home, and one of the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1947.929,"endTime":1951.979,"body":"things I recognized was the hand"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1952.009,"endTime":1955.069,"body":"leash handling aspect. So the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1952.009,"endTime":1955.069,"body":"owner would get nervous and kind"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1955.069,"endTime":1957.979,"body":"of tighten up on the leash, and"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1955.069,"endTime":1957.979,"body":"the dog would get frustrated,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1957.979,"endTime":1960.499,"body":"and also start biting on the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1957.979,"endTime":1960.499,"body":"leash. And he he also had this"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1960.499,"endTime":1963.769,"body":"habit of biting garbage can"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1960.499,"endTime":1963.769,"body":"wheels. It was, you know what he"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1963.769,"endTime":1967.039,"body":"could take his frustrations out"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1963.769,"endTime":1967.039,"body":"on when he was on walks. And if"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1967.129,"endTime":1969.619,"body":"it was garbage day, he would go"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1967.129,"endTime":1969.619,"body":"after the garbage can wheels and"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1969.619,"endTime":1972.199,"body":"latch on to a garbage can wheel."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1969.619,"endTime":1972.199,"body":"So that was a actually, it"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1972.199,"endTime":1975.019,"body":"sounds kind of silly. But it"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1972.199,"endTime":1975.019,"body":"actually is very frustrating"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1975.019,"endTime":1977.509,"body":"aspect for somebody that's just"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1975.019,"endTime":1977.509,"body":"trying to take their dog for a"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1977.509,"endTime":1981.319,"body":"walk in, they're getting pulled"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1977.509,"endTime":1981.319,"body":"over to every single garbage"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1981.319,"endTime":1983.959,"body":"can. And as you can imagine,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1981.319,"endTime":1983.959,"body":"there's one in almost every"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1983.959,"endTime":1988.069,"body":"house. So. So yeah, there were"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1983.959,"endTime":1988.069,"body":"some, I think some perpetuating"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1988.099,"endTime":1989.329,"body":"things going on as well."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1989.93,"endTime":1991.67,"body":"Yeah, so all sorts"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1989.93,"endTime":1991.67,"body":"going on. And we can certainly"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1991.67,"endTime":1994.52,"body":"think about that on a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1991.67,"endTime":1994.52,"body":"physiological level as well, in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1994.52,"endTime":1997.49,"body":"terms of if he is having those"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1994.52,"endTime":1997.49,"body":"experiences where he goes out,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1997.49,"endTime":2000.49,"body":"and particularly even if he just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1997.49,"endTime":2000.49,"body":"goes by a person, and he doesn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2000.49,"endTime":2003.13,"body":"react to it, because he's been"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2000.49,"endTime":2003.13,"body":"suppressed, he's going to still"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2003.13,"endTime":2006.55,"body":"be experiencing some sort of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2003.13,"endTime":2006.55,"body":"stress at going by that person."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2006.55,"endTime":2008.95,"body":"So we are going to get that sort"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2006.55,"endTime":2008.95,"body":"of trigger stacking effects that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2008.95,"endTime":2011.8,"body":"we often talk about in dog"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2008.95,"endTime":2011.8,"body":"behavior, because he is going to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2011.8,"endTime":2013.75,"body":"be flooded with adrenaline, he's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2011.8,"endTime":2013.75,"body":"going to be flooded with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2013.75,"endTime":2017.59,"body":"cortisol. So that's going to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2013.75,"endTime":2017.59,"body":"cause systems within his within"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2017.59,"endTime":2020.68,"body":"his brain, particularly thinking"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2017.59,"endTime":2020.68,"body":"of the amygdala to become more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2020.71,"endTime":2024.76,"body":"reactive to some of those"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2020.71,"endTime":2024.76,"body":"potential triggers. So he might"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2024.79,"endTime":2027.28,"body":"be more likely to react to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2024.79,"endTime":2027.28,"body":"humans after he is having that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2027.28,"endTime":2030.67,"body":"stressful experience. But he"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2027.28,"endTime":2030.67,"body":"might also just be more stressed"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2030.67,"endTime":2033.58,"body":"generally. So unable to manage"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2030.67,"endTime":2033.58,"body":"that unable to sort of outlet"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2033.58,"endTime":2035.86,"body":"that. So that might make him"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2033.58,"endTime":2035.86,"body":"more prone to things like biting"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2035.86,"endTime":2039.67,"body":"on the lead and going for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2035.86,"endTime":2039.67,"body":"trashcans and all those sorts of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2039.67,"endTime":2043.66,"body":"things as well. So, again, this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2039.67,"endTime":2043.66,"body":"is kind of interplay between are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2043.66,"endTime":2047.65,"body":"we considering the behavior? are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2043.66,"endTime":2047.65,"body":"we considering the the biting of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2047.65,"endTime":2049.66,"body":"the garbage bins? are we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2047.65,"endTime":2049.66,"body":"considering that a presenting"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2049.66,"endTime":2051.85,"body":"factor? Are you considering that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2049.66,"endTime":2051.85,"body":"the main issue or we're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2051.85,"endTime":2054.82,"body":"considering that something that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2051.85,"endTime":2054.82,"body":"that is causing perpetuation of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2054.82,"endTime":2057.37,"body":"the issue because actually, him"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2054.82,"endTime":2057.37,"body":"doing that and get himself"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2057.37,"endTime":2061.21,"body":"really riled up doing that might"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2057.37,"endTime":2061.21,"body":"make him more prone to having a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2061.21,"endTime":2063.73,"body":"bad interaction with a human"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2061.21,"endTime":2063.73,"body":"next time he sees one as well."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2063.73,"endTime":2066.61,"body":"So there's this constant"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2063.73,"endTime":2066.61,"body":"interplay between factors that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2066.61,"endTime":2071.05,"body":"maintaining the issue, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2066.61,"endTime":2071.05,"body":"factors that are the issue. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2071.05,"endTime":2071.17,"body":"I"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2071.17,"endTime":2072.97,"body":"love that"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2071.17,"endTime":2072.97,"body":"because it also again, makes us"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2072.97,"endTime":2076.84,"body":"think about how the presenting"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2072.97,"endTime":2076.84,"body":"issues can also be perpetuating"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2076.84,"endTime":2080.98,"body":"factors. So because if we don't"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2076.84,"endTime":2080.98,"body":"recognize that, yes, sometimes"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2080.98,"endTime":2082.81,"body":"we're focused on solving one"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2080.98,"endTime":2082.81,"body":"issue or working on one"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2082.81,"endTime":2085.84,"body":"behavior, but we the other"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2082.81,"endTime":2085.84,"body":"behaviors still occurring, which"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2085.84,"endTime":2089.89,"body":"can then impact the main issue"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2085.84,"endTime":2089.89,"body":"we're working on. And if we say"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2089.89,"endTime":2092.32,"body":"okay, let's just work on that"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2089.89,"endTime":2092.32,"body":"later and not really worry about"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2092.32,"endTime":2094.93,"body":"it. It's going to be a"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2092.32,"endTime":2094.93,"body":"significant factor in our"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2094.93,"endTime":2097.18,"body":"overall success. And you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2094.93,"endTime":2097.18,"body":"for instance, a separation"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2097.18,"endTime":2100.0,"body":"anxiety case for where a dog is"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2097.18,"endTime":2100.0,"body":"biting the people as they leave"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2100.0,"endTime":2103.75,"body":"At the home, for me, that may be"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2100.0,"endTime":2103.75,"body":"the major issue. People don't"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2103.75,"endTime":2105.91,"body":"want to be bitten by their own"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2103.75,"endTime":2105.91,"body":"dog as they're trying to leave"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2105.91,"endTime":2108.52,"body":"the home. That seems to be the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2105.91,"endTime":2108.52,"body":"major issue. But I'll say, we're"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2108.52,"endTime":2111.49,"body":"not going to really solve any"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2108.52,"endTime":2111.49,"body":"issue until we address the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2111.49,"endTime":2114.46,"body":"separation anxiety component,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2111.49,"endTime":2114.46,"body":"which could be considered the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2114.46,"endTime":2116.74,"body":"perpetuation factor? Well, we"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2114.46,"endTime":2116.74,"body":"need to put it into the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2116.74,"endTime":2120.16,"body":"presenting issue problem, right?"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2116.74,"endTime":2120.16,"body":"The category?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2120.46,"endTime":2122.86,"body":"Yeah. And if our dogs"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2120.46,"endTime":2122.86,"body":"were filling in these forms,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2123.25,"endTime":2126.7,"body":"totally different to all their"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2123.25,"endTime":2126.7,"body":"own filling. Absolutely,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2126.79,"endTime":2128.5,"body":"absolutely."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2126.79,"endTime":2128.5,"body":"All right. So are there any"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2128.5,"endTime":2132.58,"body":"other questions you would ask to"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2128.5,"endTime":2132.58,"body":"complete this framework and"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2132.58,"endTime":2135.61,"body":"creating this formulation,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2132.58,"endTime":2135.61,"body":"before you move into the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2135.61,"endTime":2138.88,"body":"treatment stage or the the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2135.61,"endTime":2138.88,"body":"behavior change strategy? Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2138.88,"endTime":2139.06,"body":"so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2139.06,"endTime":2141.4,"body":"I think that's probably"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2139.06,"endTime":2141.4,"body":"quite a good start. And I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2141.4,"endTime":2143.95,"body":"there definitely will be other"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2141.4,"endTime":2143.95,"body":"things to consider. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2143.95,"endTime":2146.41,"body":"definitely things that will be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2143.95,"endTime":2146.41,"body":"so jumping into in a little bit"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2146.41,"endTime":2149.56,"body":"more detail with the owner here."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2146.41,"endTime":2149.56,"body":"And obviously, if we have time"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2149.56,"endTime":2153.1,"body":"to go through a full history,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2149.56,"endTime":2153.1,"body":"but those are kind of some of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2153.1,"endTime":2156.34,"body":"the key areas that we will"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2153.1,"endTime":2156.34,"body":"definitely look at looking at,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2156.34,"endTime":2158.53,"body":"again, what caused the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2156.34,"endTime":2158.53,"body":"development of that stress,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2158.53,"endTime":2161.05,"body":"what's caused the maintenance of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2158.53,"endTime":2161.05,"body":"that distress. And that gives us"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2161.05,"endTime":2164.83,"body":"a very sort of nice overview in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2161.05,"endTime":2164.83,"body":"terms of that five Ps"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2164.83,"endTime":2167.74,"body":"formulation. And that is just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2164.83,"endTime":2167.74,"body":"one way of doing it as well. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2168.4,"endTime":2171.85,"body":"the five Ps is a is a structure"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2168.4,"endTime":2171.85,"body":"for formulating an issue. It's a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2171.85,"endTime":2174.16,"body":"structure for understanding an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2171.85,"endTime":2174.16,"body":"issue, but there are other ways"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2174.16,"endTime":2178.12,"body":"of doing it as well. Yeah, it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2174.16,"endTime":2178.12,"body":"does depend on your approach, it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2178.12,"endTime":2182.44,"body":"depends on how the individual"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2178.12,"endTime":2182.44,"body":"owner works as well. owners"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2182.44,"endTime":2184.96,"body":"might respond really well to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2182.44,"endTime":2184.96,"body":"that kind of very formulaic,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2185.11,"endTime":2188.17,"body":"five P's approach, some owners"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2185.11,"endTime":2188.17,"body":"actually might respond to an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2188.17,"endTime":2191.05,"body":"approach that puts things more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2188.17,"endTime":2191.05,"body":"in a sort of diagrammatic form,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2191.2,"endTime":2196.18,"body":"and allows them to kind of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2191.2,"endTime":2196.18,"body":"visually see perhaps how that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2196.21,"endTime":2197.47,"body":"problem is maintained. That's"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2197.47,"endTime":2198.97,"body":"a really"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2197.47,"endTime":2198.97,"body":"important point to make, too,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2198.97,"endTime":2201.64,"body":"because it's, we concentrate on"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2198.97,"endTime":2201.64,"body":"our learners as the dogs that"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2201.64,"endTime":2203.74,"body":"we're working with. But we also"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2201.64,"endTime":2203.74,"body":"have to remember the humans"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2203.74,"endTime":2206.02,"body":"we're working with have"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2203.74,"endTime":2206.02,"body":"different learning styles and in"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2206.02,"endTime":2209.29,"body":"ways of visualizing or"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2206.02,"endTime":2209.29,"body":"processing the information we're"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2209.29,"endTime":2213.01,"body":"giving them. So really important"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2209.29,"endTime":2213.01,"body":"point. So okay, so we've gotten"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2213.01,"endTime":2215.41,"body":"the formulation, we know we"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2213.01,"endTime":2215.41,"body":"understand what Mr. Leo is"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2215.41,"endTime":2218.35,"body":"doing, and, and have, and I"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2215.41,"endTime":2218.35,"body":"think the owner understands as"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2218.35,"endTime":2221.38,"body":"well. So if you were to go to"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2218.35,"endTime":2221.38,"body":"the next step, what would it"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2221.38,"endTime":2224.74,"body":"look like in terms of for"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2221.38,"endTime":2224.74,"body":"putting together a behavior"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2224.74,"endTime":2228.19,"body":"change strategy, based on the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2224.74,"endTime":2228.19,"body":"limited information we have so"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2228.19,"endTime":2230.38,"body":"far in a five minute consults"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2228.19,"endTime":2230.38,"body":"between you and I?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2231.49,"endTime":2234.73,"body":"Yeah, so unfortunately,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2231.49,"endTime":2234.73,"body":"with predisposing factors,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2234.73,"endTime":2236.8,"body":"there's not a lot we can do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2234.73,"endTime":2236.8,"body":"about them, right, we can't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2236.8,"endTime":2241.39,"body":"change the breed of a dog"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2236.8,"endTime":2241.39,"body":"magically, we can't change their"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2241.39,"endTime":2244.09,"body":"genetics, we can't change what's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2241.39,"endTime":2244.09,"body":"happened to them in the past."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2244.27,"endTime":2247.72,"body":"But we can obviously consider"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2244.27,"endTime":2247.72,"body":"that the perpetuating factors,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2247.72,"endTime":2250.0,"body":"the things that are causing that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2247.72,"endTime":2250.0,"body":"distress to be maintained in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2250.0,"endTime":2253.48,"body":"moment, we can change, we can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2250.0,"endTime":2253.48,"body":"change that dog's routine, we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2253.48,"endTime":2256.21,"body":"can change what that dog is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2253.48,"endTime":2256.21,"body":"doing, when he's out on walks,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2256.21,"endTime":2259.42,"body":"we can change that dog's arousal"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2256.21,"endTime":2259.42,"body":"levels, hopefully to make him"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2259.42,"endTime":2264.04,"body":"less prone to reacting badly"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2259.42,"endTime":2264.04,"body":"when he is out on walks. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2264.07,"endTime":2266.68,"body":"actually, again, having that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2264.07,"endTime":2266.68,"body":"formulation, having that very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2266.68,"endTime":2270.58,"body":"easy sort of structure that we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2266.68,"endTime":2270.58,"body":"can use with the owner as well"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2270.61,"endTime":2274.0,"body":"is really valuable, because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2270.61,"endTime":2274.0,"body":"actually, by the time I've done"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2274.0,"endTime":2276.34,"body":"this, quite often owners are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2274.0,"endTime":2276.34,"body":"like, okay, let's change this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2276.34,"endTime":2278.68,"body":"then, or, okay, let's do this."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2276.34,"endTime":2278.68,"body":"And they're suggesting things to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2278.68,"endTime":2281.26,"body":"me. And I'm like, Yeah, let's do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2278.68,"endTime":2281.26,"body":"that, we can actually start"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2281.26,"endTime":2283.54,"body":"seeing the owners coming up with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2281.26,"endTime":2283.54,"body":"really, really good ideas,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2283.54,"endTime":2286.99,"body":"because they are the experts on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2283.54,"endTime":2286.99,"body":"their dog's routine. So they're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2286.99,"endTime":2290.44,"body":"going to be the experts on how"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2286.99,"endTime":2290.44,"body":"they can negotiate things to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2290.44,"endTime":2292.9,"body":"actually get rid of some of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2290.44,"endTime":2292.9,"body":"those perpetuating factors,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2293.14,"endTime":2295.45,"body":"understand that distress a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2293.14,"endTime":2295.45,"body":"little bit better, and respond"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2295.45,"endTime":2297.49,"body":"to that distress a little bit"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2295.45,"endTime":2297.49,"body":"better in the moment as well."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2297.669,"endTime":2301.029,"body":"So in a"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2297.669,"endTime":2301.029,"body":"sense, where also, the behavior"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2301.029,"endTime":2303.549,"body":"analysis term has be distant"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2301.029,"endTime":2303.549,"body":"antecedents are setting events"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2303.549,"endTime":2306.999,"body":"for that in terms of the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2303.549,"endTime":2306.999,"body":"perpetuating factors in a way."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2307.269,"endTime":2311.199,"body":"And so then the next step, of"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2307.269,"endTime":2311.199,"body":"course, is addressing the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2311.199,"endTime":2314.769,"body":"antecedents and the maintaining"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2311.199,"endTime":2314.769,"body":"consequences. And if we're"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2314.769,"endTime":2316.989,"body":"looking at, again, through that"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2314.769,"endTime":2316.989,"body":"applied behavior analysis lens,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2316.989,"endTime":2320.889,"body":"but if you were to get a more"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2316.989,"endTime":2320.889,"body":"robust picture of it, from your"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2320.919,"endTime":2323.589,"body":"viewpoint, what would you add in"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2320.919,"endTime":2323.589,"body":"and when we start working on the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2323.589,"endTime":2327.069,"body":"presenting issue? So let's say"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2323.589,"endTime":2327.069,"body":"Leo is biting feet. And we want"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2327.069,"endTime":2331.119,"body":"to, you know, work on a behavior"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2327.069,"endTime":2331.119,"body":"change strategy for that, kind"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2331.119,"endTime":2333.039,"body":"of walk me through next steps on"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2331.119,"endTime":2333.039,"body":"that?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2333.46,"endTime":2338.17,"body":"Yeah. So I have quite a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2333.46,"endTime":2338.17,"body":"specific way that I work on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2338.2,"endTime":2341.23,"body":"understanding there's specific"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2338.2,"endTime":2341.23,"body":"behaviors. And again, I really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2341.23,"endTime":2345.49,"body":"think diagrams are so useful in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2341.23,"endTime":2345.49,"body":"formulating an understanding of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2345.49,"endTime":2347.65,"body":"these specific behaviors,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2345.49,"endTime":2347.65,"body":"because there's something we can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2347.65,"endTime":2349.6,"body":"see and make sense of, it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2347.65,"endTime":2349.6,"body":"useful for me, I'm quite a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2349.6,"endTime":2352.3,"body":"visual person. But it's also"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2349.6,"endTime":2352.3,"body":"again, really useful for the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2352.3,"endTime":2354.43,"body":"owners. It's also useful for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2352.3,"endTime":2354.43,"body":"other professionals in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2354.43,"endTime":2357.55,"body":"field. If, for example, with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2354.43,"endTime":2357.55,"body":"Leo, if I just emailed all the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2357.55,"endTime":2360.19,"body":"professionals working with Leo,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2357.55,"endTime":2360.19,"body":"the daycare, the vet, whoever"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2360.19,"endTime":2362.11,"body":"else might be involved and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2360.19,"endTime":2362.11,"body":"saying, oh, Leo's got fear"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2362.11,"endTime":2365.38,"body":"aggression, they don't know"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2362.11,"endTime":2365.38,"body":"much, right? That doesn't give"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2365.38,"endTime":2368.38,"body":"them much much to go on. They"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2365.38,"endTime":2368.38,"body":"just know. Okay, gotta be a bit"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2368.38,"endTime":2370.9,"body":"careful, because Leo might bite"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2368.38,"endTime":2370.9,"body":"us at some point, but they don't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2370.9,"endTime":2373.39,"body":"know why they don't know what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2370.9,"endTime":2373.39,"body":"what that's about. They don't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2373.39,"endTime":2377.53,"body":"know when that's when humans or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2373.39,"endTime":2377.53,"body":"whatever. So I like to construct"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2377.56,"endTime":2381.52,"body":"a specific analysis of what's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2377.56,"endTime":2381.52,"body":"causing that behavior in that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2381.52,"endTime":2385.09,"body":"individual situation. And it is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2381.52,"endTime":2385.09,"body":"really similar to ABA actually,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2385.09,"endTime":2388.99,"body":"but it's it what I tried to do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2385.09,"endTime":2388.99,"body":"is create an analysis that,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2389.23,"endTime":2393.82,"body":"again, allows more encompassing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2389.23,"endTime":2393.82,"body":"of emotions if if there are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2393.82,"endTime":2396.22,"body":"emotions involved to that. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2393.82,"endTime":2396.22,"body":"that's not to say there has to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2396.22,"endTime":2398.44,"body":"be there's not to say that the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2396.22,"endTime":2398.44,"body":"dog has to be motivated by an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2398.44,"endTime":2401.86,"body":"emotion but it might be And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2398.44,"endTime":2401.86,"body":"similarly, thoughts and beliefs"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2401.86,"endTime":2404.26,"body":"that that dog might have that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2401.86,"endTime":2404.26,"body":"are involved. So if that dog,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2404.29,"endTime":2407.65,"body":"for example, in the case of Leo,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2404.29,"endTime":2407.65,"body":"if he's had an association"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2407.65,"endTime":2411.22,"body":"between humans and something bad"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2407.65,"endTime":2411.22,"body":"happening, then he probably does"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2411.22,"endTime":2413.92,"body":"believe that that could happen"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2411.22,"endTime":2413.92,"body":"again in the future, whether"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2413.92,"endTime":2416.26,"body":"that's an explicit belief or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2413.92,"endTime":2416.26,"body":"not, it doesn't matter too much."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2416.26,"endTime":2418.36,"body":"He's, he's probably not, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2416.26,"endTime":2418.36,"body":"know, going to write a text on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2418.36,"endTime":2422.23,"body":"the dangers of humans. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2418.36,"endTime":2422.23,"body":"internally, he knows human"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2422.26,"endTime":2425.98,"body":"equals bad, right. So in those"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2422.26,"endTime":2425.98,"body":"certain contexts in certain"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2425.98,"endTime":2430.0,"body":"situations, so we need to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2425.98,"endTime":2430.0,"body":"understand all of those sorts of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2430.0,"endTime":2433.18,"body":"factors that's motivating the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2430.0,"endTime":2433.18,"body":"behavior. So as I say, a little"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2433.18,"endTime":2439.15,"body":"bit like ABA, I would look at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2433.18,"endTime":2439.15,"body":"the sort of situation. So again,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2439.15,"endTime":2441.91,"body":"Leo, in the situation, he"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2439.15,"endTime":2441.91,"body":"spotted a human, let's put him"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2441.91,"endTime":2444.07,"body":"in obviously, the worst"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2441.91,"endTime":2444.07,"body":"situation possible, he spotted a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2444.07,"endTime":2447.67,"body":"human, he's thinking, Oh, human,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2444.07,"endTime":2447.67,"body":"that's bad. That's causing him"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2447.67,"endTime":2452.86,"body":"to experience fear, emotionally."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2447.67,"endTime":2452.86,"body":"And that's then resulting in a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2452.86,"endTime":2455.74,"body":"behavior to try and make that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2452.86,"endTime":2455.74,"body":"fear go away. So that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2455.74,"endTime":2460.03,"body":"resulting in him, maybe"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2455.74,"endTime":2460.03,"body":"responding with behaving a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2460.03,"endTime":2462.04,"body":"little bit aggressively towards"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2460.03,"endTime":2462.04,"body":"that human, maybe going for the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2462.04,"endTime":2465.28,"body":"feet, the legs or whatever, to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2462.04,"endTime":2465.28,"body":"try and make that human go away"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2465.31,"endTime":2468.1,"body":"to try and release his fear. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2465.31,"endTime":2468.1,"body":"then I'll break that down,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2468.1,"endTime":2471.79,"body":"again, into into very similarly"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2468.1,"endTime":2471.79,"body":"to the ABA, the consequences of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2471.79,"endTime":2477.28,"body":"that. But what I would focus on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2471.79,"endTime":2477.28,"body":"is the consequences on a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2477.28,"endTime":2480.73,"body":"slightly wider scale, in terms"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2477.28,"endTime":2480.73,"body":"of the maintaining consequences."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2480.82,"endTime":2483.04,"body":"So what's maintained that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2480.82,"endTime":2483.04,"body":"behavior while the humans gone"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2483.04,"endTime":2488.05,"body":"away, the fear has been relieved"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2483.04,"endTime":2488.05,"body":"a little bit for Leo, which is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2488.05,"endTime":2490.81,"body":"going to reinforce that sort of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2488.05,"endTime":2490.81,"body":"safety behavior of barking at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2490.81,"endTime":2493.21,"body":"the human or grabbing and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2490.81,"endTime":2493.21,"body":"lunging and snapping, that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2493.21,"endTime":2495.82,"body":"humans make them go away. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2493.21,"endTime":2495.82,"body":"that's the maintaining"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2495.82,"endTime":2499.36,"body":"consequences, but also the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2495.82,"endTime":2499.36,"body":"programmatic consequences, in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2499.36,"endTime":2501.85,"body":"the sense that actually, that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2499.36,"endTime":2501.85,"body":"got liaise, or alpha levels"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2501.85,"endTime":2504.97,"body":"super high. So he's likely to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2501.85,"endTime":2504.97,"body":"continue reacting badly to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2504.97,"endTime":2507.37,"body":"things again, for a certain"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2504.97,"endTime":2507.37,"body":"period of time, a couple of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2507.37,"endTime":2511.87,"body":"hours, while those sorts of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2507.37,"endTime":2511.87,"body":"arousal levels drop, problematic"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2511.87,"endTime":2516.4,"body":"in terms of Leo's probably not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2511.87,"endTime":2516.4,"body":"enjoying having that reaction as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2516.4,"endTime":2518.53,"body":"well, actually, we've got to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2516.4,"endTime":2518.53,"body":"think of from a welfare"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2518.53,"endTime":2521.74,"body":"perspective, that's not great"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2518.53,"endTime":2521.74,"body":"for him to be in a situation"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2521.74,"endTime":2526.06,"body":"where he's having those repeated"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2521.74,"endTime":2526.06,"body":"bad interactions with humans."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2526.45,"endTime":2529.03,"body":"And from the problem"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2526.45,"endTime":2529.03,"body":"consequences from the owners"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2529.03,"endTime":2532.51,"body":"perspective as well. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2529.03,"endTime":2532.51,"body":"actually, Leo's owner probably"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2532.51,"endTime":2535.39,"body":"doesn't love taking her dog out"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2532.51,"endTime":2535.39,"body":"and having her dog go and bite"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2535.39,"endTime":2538.06,"body":"people, right. So it's, it's a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2535.39,"endTime":2538.06,"body":"problematic consequence for her."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2538.06,"endTime":2541.18,"body":"So again, we've got to think of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2538.06,"endTime":2541.18,"body":"the maintaining consequences and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2541.18,"endTime":2543.43,"body":"the problem consequences of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2541.18,"endTime":2543.43,"body":"those behaviors, because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2543.73,"endTime":2546.67,"body":"obviously, there is a certain"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2543.73,"endTime":2546.67,"body":"amount of motivation to take"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2546.67,"endTime":2549.19,"body":"part in their behavior for the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2546.67,"endTime":2549.19,"body":"dog. And we need to understand"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2549.19,"endTime":2551.47,"body":"the thoughts that are motivating"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2549.19,"endTime":2551.47,"body":"that behavior. So we're in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2551.47,"endTime":2554.38,"body":"association between humans and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2551.47,"endTime":2554.38,"body":"danger, we need to understand"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2554.38,"endTime":2557.14,"body":"the emotions that may or may not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2554.38,"endTime":2557.14,"body":"be motivating that behavior. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2557.14,"endTime":2559.9,"body":"in Leo's case, it sounds like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2557.14,"endTime":2559.9,"body":"there's some fear. And that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2559.9,"endTime":2562.72,"body":"really becoming a strong"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2559.9,"endTime":2562.72,"body":"motivator for that behavior,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2562.96,"endTime":2565.54,"body":"potentially, the physiology"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2562.96,"endTime":2565.54,"body":"that's involved in that as well."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2565.96,"endTime":2568.36,"body":"So again, we'll be looking at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2565.96,"endTime":2568.36,"body":"things like adrenaline cortisol,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2568.36,"endTime":2574.33,"body":"and how that sort of HPA Axis"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2568.36,"endTime":2574.33,"body":"sem axis might be involved, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2575.23,"endTime":2577.66,"body":"how those things interplay in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2575.23,"endTime":2577.66,"body":"terms of resulting in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2577.69,"endTime":2580.69,"body":"consequences that maintain that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2577.69,"endTime":2580.69,"body":"behavior, and consequences that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2580.69,"endTime":2584.5,"body":"are problematic. And again, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2580.69,"endTime":2584.5,"body":"draw that into a fairly similar"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2584.74,"endTime":2588.4,"body":"sort of diagrammatic structure"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2584.74,"endTime":2588.4,"body":"to we see with ABA analysis, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2588.61,"endTime":2591.37,"body":"it's something that I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2588.61,"endTime":2591.37,"body":"provides a little bit more of a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2591.46,"endTime":2595.96,"body":"coherent understanding for both"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2591.46,"endTime":2595.96,"body":"the owner and the behavior"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2595.96,"endTime":2599.62,"body":"consultant. And again, other"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2595.96,"endTime":2599.62,"body":"professionals have exactly what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2599.62,"endTime":2600.76,"body":"is going on with that dog. So"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2600.76,"endTime":2603.49,"body":"it really"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2600.76,"endTime":2603.49,"body":"forms a nice robust behavior"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2603.49,"endTime":2605.86,"body":"change strategy in your mind,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2603.49,"endTime":2605.86,"body":"and how you're going to approach"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2605.86,"endTime":2608.41,"body":"that behavior change because you"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2605.86,"endTime":2608.41,"body":"have all this information. And I"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2608.41,"endTime":2610.45,"body":"think what's super helpful is"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2608.41,"endTime":2610.45,"body":"that it's going to help the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2610.45,"endTime":2613.99,"body":"clients really understand why"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2610.45,"endTime":2613.99,"body":"their dog is doing things, and"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2613.99,"endTime":2618.22,"body":"to be paying attention to things"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2613.99,"endTime":2618.22,"body":"other than just the observable"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2618.22,"endTime":2620.74,"body":"behavior they're seeing, they"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2618.22,"endTime":2620.74,"body":"really have to understand all of"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2620.74,"endTime":2625.39,"body":"the emotions their dog might be"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2620.74,"endTime":2625.39,"body":"experiencing, and why it's so"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2625.39,"endTime":2628.36,"body":"important for the whole behavior"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2625.39,"endTime":2628.36,"body":"change strategy to recognize"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2628.36,"endTime":2633.31,"body":"those things. So yeah, it's a"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2628.36,"endTime":2633.31,"body":"very, very unique, but also"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2633.4,"endTime":2636.49,"body":"important, all encompassing"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2633.4,"endTime":2636.49,"body":"approach that you've kind of"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2636.49,"endTime":2640.09,"body":"explaining here, which I love"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2636.49,"endTime":2640.09,"body":"so. So there's a few different"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2640.09,"endTime":2642.7,"body":"approaches, or actually a lot of"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2640.09,"endTime":2642.7,"body":"approaches there systems in"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2642.7,"endTime":2645.43,"body":"which trainers and consultants"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2642.7,"endTime":2645.43,"body":"might use to assess behaviors."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2645.58,"endTime":2648.52,"body":"And you had mentioned earlier"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2645.58,"endTime":2648.52,"body":"the diagnostic approach. And if"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2648.52,"endTime":2651.16,"body":"you want to expand on that a"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2648.52,"endTime":2651.16,"body":"little bit further. Yeah, sure."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2651.16,"endTime":2651.67,"body":"So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2651.79,"endTime":2654.07,"body":"probably currently the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2651.79,"endTime":2654.07,"body":"most dominant approach that we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2654.07,"endTime":2656.62,"body":"use in our field for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2654.07,"endTime":2656.62,"body":"understanding and behavior"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2656.62,"endTime":2659.41,"body":"problems. And this is the most"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2656.62,"endTime":2659.41,"body":"dominant approach in the human"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2659.41,"endTime":2662.02,"body":"mental health field as well as a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2659.41,"endTime":2662.02,"body":"diagnostic approach. It's this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2662.02,"endTime":2666.25,"body":"idea that if you've got a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2662.02,"endTime":2666.25,"body":"certain set of behaviors and a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2666.25,"endTime":2670.69,"body":"certain set of displayed"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2666.25,"endTime":2670.69,"body":"symptoms, then you are going to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2670.69,"endTime":2673.6,"body":"be allocated this particular"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2670.69,"endTime":2673.6,"body":"diagnosis. And that does work"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2673.6,"endTime":2676.21,"body":"really well in many senses,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2673.6,"endTime":2676.21,"body":"because actually, you know that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2676.21,"endTime":2679.03,"body":"you've got these certain sets of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2676.21,"endTime":2679.03,"body":"behaviors that usually apply to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2679.03,"endTime":2682.63,"body":"this. And that means that we can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2679.03,"endTime":2682.63,"body":"use treatments X, Y, and Zed and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2682.63,"endTime":2685.15,"body":"they're generally going to be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2682.63,"endTime":2685.15,"body":"helpful for those conditions."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2685.15,"endTime":2689.44,"body":"Right? So it certainly got a lot"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2685.15,"endTime":2689.44,"body":"of value. But what I do think is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2689.47,"endTime":2693.52,"body":"it's perhaps does lack"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2689.47,"endTime":2693.52,"body":"specificity to particular"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2693.52,"endTime":2697.54,"body":"clients because again, you I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2693.52,"endTime":2697.54,"body":"sure know really, really well"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2697.54,"endTime":2701.47,"body":"Mike that if you get one dog"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2697.54,"endTime":2701.47,"body":"with fear aggression, right, or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2701.5,"endTime":2703.63,"body":"that's been diagnosed with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2701.5,"endTime":2703.63,"body":"aggression, that could be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2703.66,"endTime":2708.52,"body":"completely different case"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2703.66,"endTime":2708.52,"body":"conceptualization and work and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2708.52,"endTime":2712.09,"body":"training plan for you. And then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2708.52,"endTime":2712.09,"body":"another dog that you might be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2712.09,"endTime":2715.18,"body":"seeing, because of all those"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2712.09,"endTime":2715.18,"body":"different factors that might be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2715.18,"endTime":2718.06,"body":"influencing the problems that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2715.18,"endTime":2718.06,"body":"that those two individual dogs"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2718.06,"endTime":2722.14,"body":"are having. Right? So it does"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2718.06,"endTime":2722.14,"body":"lack a little bit of specificity"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2722.14,"endTime":2724.42,"body":"sometimes, which is why again,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2722.14,"endTime":2724.42,"body":"in the human mental health"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2724.42,"endTime":2729.55,"body":"field, we are starting certainly"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2724.42,"endTime":2729.55,"body":"in the UK to move towards either"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2729.58,"endTime":2732.43,"body":"using purely a formulation based"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2729.58,"endTime":2732.43,"body":"approach. So actually scrapping"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2732.43,"endTime":2734.65,"body":"the whole diagnosis and saying,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2732.43,"endTime":2734.65,"body":"Actually, we're just gonna"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2734.65,"endTime":2737.5,"body":"present a formulation of what's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2734.65,"endTime":2737.5,"body":"going on with this dog of what's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2737.5,"endTime":2739.81,"body":"going on with this human. I keep"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2737.5,"endTime":2739.81,"body":"saying dog, and so the human"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2739.84,"endTime":2744.1,"body":"apologies for that, what's going"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2739.84,"endTime":2744.1,"body":"on with this human, and how we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2744.13,"endTime":2746.5,"body":"are understanding how that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2744.13,"endTime":2746.5,"body":"distress has developed and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2746.5,"endTime":2749.32,"body":"maintained, right, and the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2746.5,"endTime":2749.32,"body":"solutions that we might be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2749.32,"endTime":2753.49,"body":"working towards for them. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2749.32,"endTime":2753.49,"body":"we're also more practitioners,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2753.49,"endTime":2757.27,"body":"I'd say most commonly, are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2753.49,"endTime":2757.27,"body":"providing this kind of synthesis"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2757.27,"endTime":2762.22,"body":"between a basic diagnosis for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2757.27,"endTime":2762.22,"body":"the human of okay, maybe this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2762.22,"endTime":2764.86,"body":"humans got anxiety, or maybe"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2762.22,"endTime":2764.86,"body":"they've got Generalized Anxiety"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2764.86,"endTime":2766.96,"body":"Disorder, right. But then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2764.86,"endTime":2766.96,"body":"they're providing a more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2766.96,"endTime":2771.67,"body":"specific formulation of exactly"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2766.96,"endTime":2771.67,"body":"what's going on with that human,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2771.91,"endTime":2775.3,"body":"right, what's going on with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2771.91,"endTime":2775.3,"body":"them, why that's developed for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2775.3,"endTime":2777.58,"body":"them, why that's been maintained"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2775.3,"endTime":2777.58,"body":"for them, because that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2777.58,"endTime":2780.13,"body":"actually much more useful for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2777.58,"endTime":2780.13,"body":"them to understand their"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2780.13,"endTime":2783.34,"body":"condition for and their family"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2780.13,"endTime":2783.34,"body":"to understand their condition,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2783.34,"endTime":2785.65,"body":"their different practitioners,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2783.34,"endTime":2785.65,"body":"they'll be working with to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2785.65,"endTime":2789.1,"body":"understand their condition. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2785.65,"endTime":2789.1,"body":"again, I think if we apply that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2789.1,"endTime":2792.13,"body":"to dogs, and particularly if we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2789.1,"endTime":2792.13,"body":"apply that to working with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2792.16,"endTime":2795.73,"body":"owners working with all sorts of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2792.16,"endTime":2795.73,"body":"professionals, where everyone's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2795.73,"endTime":2798.19,"body":"got their own idea about what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2795.73,"endTime":2798.19,"body":"fear aggression is, right?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2799.18,"endTime":2802.03,"body":"Actually, a formulation based"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2799.18,"endTime":2802.03,"body":"approach is really, really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2802.03,"endTime":2806.11,"body":"useful for sharing the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2802.03,"endTime":2806.11,"body":"information of Exactly Okay, so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2806.11,"endTime":2808.72,"body":"this dog's got fear aggression."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2806.11,"endTime":2808.72,"body":"But as we know, with Leo, that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2808.72,"endTime":2811.36,"body":"been, he's been at risk for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2808.72,"endTime":2811.36,"body":"that, because of this, this and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2811.36,"endTime":2814.72,"body":"this, he's been protected"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2811.36,"endTime":2814.72,"body":"against certain developments."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2814.72,"endTime":2817.0,"body":"Because of this, this and this,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2814.72,"endTime":2817.0,"body":"the distress has been"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2817.03,"endTime":2821.38,"body":"perpetuated, it's been because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2817.03,"endTime":2821.38,"body":"of this. And obviously, it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2821.41,"endTime":2825.07,"body":"potentially precipitated by"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2821.41,"endTime":2825.07,"body":"certain things as well. That's a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2825.07,"endTime":2828.37,"body":"really, really useful framework"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2825.07,"endTime":2828.37,"body":"for anyone that's going to be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2828.37,"endTime":2830.83,"body":"working with Leo to understand"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2828.37,"endTime":2830.83,"body":"what's going on for him, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2830.83,"endTime":2833.17,"body":"certainly provides a lot more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2830.83,"endTime":2833.17,"body":"information than that, just that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2833.2,"endTime":2837.22,"body":"basic diagnosis. So I think it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2833.2,"endTime":2837.22,"body":"raises lots of questions in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2837.22,"endTime":2842.8,"body":"terms of whether the purely"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2837.22,"endTime":2842.8,"body":"diagnostic approach is the right"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2842.8,"endTime":2846.13,"body":"approach for dogs and the right"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2842.8,"endTime":2846.13,"body":"approach for dogs owners. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2846.13,"endTime":2848.5,"body":"what we can turn to in terms of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2846.13,"endTime":2848.5,"body":"whether we go for more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2848.5,"endTime":2850.57,"body":"formulation based approach or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2848.5,"endTime":2850.57,"body":"whether we kind of try and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2850.57,"endTime":2853.0,"body":"combine the two into this kind"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2850.57,"endTime":2853.0,"body":"of nice synthesis where we've"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2853.0,"endTime":2856.66,"body":"got that initial layer, which is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2853.0,"endTime":2856.66,"body":"yet great useful for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2856.69,"endTime":2858.76,"body":"particularly understanding the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2856.69,"endTime":2858.76,"body":"treatments that we might be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2858.76,"endTime":2862.03,"body":"turning to, but then we've got"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2858.76,"endTime":2862.03,"body":"maybe this formulation as well"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2862.03,"endTime":2864.67,"body":"for really digging down a little"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2862.03,"endTime":2864.67,"body":"bit more deep into understanding"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2864.67,"endTime":2867.01,"body":"what's going on with that animal"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2864.67,"endTime":2867.01,"body":"and how we should be working"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2867.01,"endTime":2868.0,"body":"with that animal as well."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2868.03,"endTime":2869.71,"body":"Yes, I love"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2868.03,"endTime":2869.71,"body":"everything you're saying,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2869.71,"endTime":2872.92,"body":"because it's just a perfect"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2869.71,"endTime":2872.92,"body":"example of the benefits of cross"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2872.92,"endTime":2876.13,"body":"pollination, or when we see"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2872.92,"endTime":2876.13,"body":"other modalities and sciences,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2876.31,"endTime":2879.79,"body":"coming into the dog training"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2876.31,"endTime":2879.79,"body":"community and applying those"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2879.79,"endTime":2882.1,"body":"things. And clearly, that's"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2879.79,"endTime":2882.1,"body":"where you're drawing from your"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2882.1,"endTime":2884.59,"body":"human psychology experience."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2882.1,"endTime":2884.59,"body":"It's this, it's really been a"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2884.59,"endTime":2889.45,"body":"great, an enlightening episode"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2884.59,"endTime":2889.45,"body":"for me. So where can people find"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2889.45,"endTime":2892.0,"body":"you now? Or what are you up to"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2889.45,"endTime":2892.0,"body":"these days? And where do you"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2892.0,"endTime":2894.64,"body":"want people to go for your"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2892.0,"endTime":2894.64,"body":"social media? If you have any?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2895.3,"endTime":2898.81,"body":"Yeah, absolutely. I am"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2895.3,"endTime":2898.81,"body":"on most social medias nowadays."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2898.84,"endTime":2902.77,"body":"So if you look at animal"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2898.84,"endTime":2902.77,"body":"behavior, Kent, on Facebook,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2902.8,"endTime":2905.47,"body":"that's probably my most active"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2902.8,"endTime":2905.47,"body":"social media. But we've also got"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2905.47,"endTime":2909.85,"body":"Instagram and again, animal"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2905.47,"endTime":2909.85,"body":"behavior can tick tock Twitter,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2909.97,"endTime":2913.42,"body":"all the all the different ones"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2909.97,"endTime":2913.42,"body":"you can imagine LinkedIn, all"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2913.42,"endTime":2915.91,"body":"under animal behavior, can't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2913.42,"endTime":2915.91,"body":"there's no other way you can. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2916.42,"endTime":2919.9,"body":"if you search animal behavior,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2916.42,"endTime":2919.9,"body":"you can you should find us. I am"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2919.9,"endTime":2924.4,"body":"actually running a webinar at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2919.9,"endTime":2924.4,"body":"some point in the future on this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2924.4,"endTime":2927.34,"body":"sort of formulation based"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2924.4,"endTime":2927.34,"body":"approach and the differences"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2927.34,"endTime":2929.89,"body":"between diagnostic approaches,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2927.34,"endTime":2929.89,"body":"formulation based approaches and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2929.89,"endTime":2933.4,"body":"again, how we can potentially"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2929.89,"endTime":2933.4,"body":"create a more synthesized"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2933.4,"endTime":2936.64,"body":"approach that offers both these"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2933.4,"endTime":2936.64,"body":"benefits at some point in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2936.64,"endTime":2939.13,"body":"future. I don't know if that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2936.64,"endTime":2939.13,"body":"will be before or after this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2939.13,"endTime":2941.65,"body":"podcast is released, though. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2939.13,"endTime":2941.65,"body":"I won't get this"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2942.19,"endTime":2943.57,"body":"will be"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2942.19,"endTime":2943.57,"body":"linked in the show notes,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2943.57,"endTime":2946.18,"body":"whether it's a recording or so"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2943.57,"endTime":2946.18,"body":"people can sign up for the live."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2946.21,"endTime":2949.03,"body":"So I'm looking forward to that."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2946.21,"endTime":2949.03,"body":"Dan, thank you so much. I"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2949.03,"endTime":2951.1,"body":"appreciate you coming on the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2949.03,"endTime":2951.1,"body":"show. And I hope to see you"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2951.1,"endTime":2951.97,"body":"again in the future."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2952.36,"endTime":2955.06,"body":"Great, thank you. It's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2952.36,"endTime":2955.06,"body":"great to great speak to."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2956.95,"endTime":2958.63,"body":"Thanks for"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2956.95,"endTime":2958.63,"body":"joining me in this conversation"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2958.63,"endTime":2962.41,"body":"with Daniel. It's really"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2958.63,"endTime":2962.41,"body":"fantastic to see more systematic"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2962.41,"endTime":2965.02,"body":"approaches being brought into"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2962.41,"endTime":2965.02,"body":"the world of dog training so we"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2965.02,"endTime":2968.74,"body":"can continue to bring supportive"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2965.02,"endTime":2968.74,"body":"data to the work we're doing,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2969.01,"endTime":2972.55,"body":"and helping dogs with aggression"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2969.01,"endTime":2972.55,"body":"issues by using evidence based"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2972.55,"endTime":2975.19,"body":"approaches. If you liked the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2972.55,"endTime":2975.19,"body":"show, please feel free to"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2975.19,"endTime":2978.1,"body":"subscribe, share and give us a"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2975.19,"endTime":2978.1,"body":"rating and hop on over to"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2978.1,"endTime":2981.1,"body":"aggressive dog.com For more"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2978.1,"endTime":2981.1,"body":"information about helping dogs"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2981.13,"endTime":2984.16,"body":"with aggression. From the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2981.13,"endTime":2984.16,"body":"aggression in dogs master course"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2984.31,"endTime":2987.4,"body":"two webinars from world renowned"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2984.31,"endTime":2987.4,"body":"experts and even an annual"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2987.4,"endTime":2991.39,"body":"conference. We have options for"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2987.4,"endTime":2991.39,"body":"both pet pros and pet owners to"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2991.39,"endTime":2993.52,"body":"learn more about aggression in"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2991.39,"endTime":2993.52,"body":"dogs"}]}