{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2.009,"endTime":6.239,"body":"Stress,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2.009,"endTime":6.239,"body":"hormones, emotions, impulse"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":6.239,"endTime":11.849,"body":"control, arousal, cognition, a"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":6.239,"endTime":11.849,"body":"lot of words that get thrown"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":11.849,"endTime":15.659,"body":"around in our conversations"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":11.849,"endTime":15.659,"body":"about dogs and behavior. In this"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":15.659,"endTime":18.479,"body":"episode with the incredibly"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":15.659,"endTime":18.479,"body":"informative Dr. Kristina"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":18.479,"endTime":21.839,"body":"Spaulding, we unpack many of"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":18.479,"endTime":21.839,"body":"those terms, and why they're so"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":21.839,"endTime":24.389,"body":"important to define correctly"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":21.839,"endTime":24.389,"body":"when discussing aggression in"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":24.389,"endTime":27.479,"body":"dogs. Christina does an amazing"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":24.389,"endTime":27.479,"body":"job of breaking down these"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":27.479,"endTime":30.329,"body":"concepts in the show, and I hope"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":27.479,"endTime":30.329,"body":"to see this conversation"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":30.329,"endTime":33.179,"body":"continue in the dog training"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":30.329,"endTime":33.179,"body":"community. And if you are"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":33.179,"endTime":35.999,"body":"working with aggression cases or"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":33.179,"endTime":35.999,"body":"plan on taking aggression cases"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":35.999,"endTime":38.459,"body":"as a trainer, or maybe you're"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":35.999,"endTime":38.459,"body":"even struggling with your own"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":38.459,"endTime":41.489,"body":"dog, we have a variety of"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":38.459,"endTime":41.489,"body":"educational opportunities just"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":41.489,"endTime":44.489,"body":"for you, including the upcoming"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":41.489,"endTime":44.489,"body":"aggression in dogs conference"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":44.489,"endTime":48.659,"body":"happening from September 30"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":44.489,"endTime":48.659,"body":"Through October 2 2022. in"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":48.659,"endTime":50.969,"body":"Providence, Rhode Island with"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":48.659,"endTime":50.969,"body":"both in person and online"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":50.969,"endTime":53.639,"body":"options, you can learn more"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":50.969,"endTime":53.639,"body":"about the aggression in dogs"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":53.639,"endTime":56.969,"body":"master course, which is the most"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":53.639,"endTime":56.969,"body":"comprehensive course available"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":56.999,"endTime":59.579,"body":"anywhere in the world for"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":56.999,"endTime":59.579,"body":"learning how to work with and"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":59.579,"endTime":63.479,"body":"help dogs with aggression issues"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":59.579,"endTime":63.479,"body":"by going to aggressive dog.com"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":63.869,"endTime":66.779,"body":"Special thanks to John masala"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":63.869,"endTime":66.779,"body":"for editing the podcast the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":66.779,"endTime":69.269,"body":"season and bringing the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":66.779,"endTime":69.269,"body":"production to a whole nother"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":69.269,"endTime":69.629,"body":"level"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":76.26,"endTime":79.59,"body":"everyone welcome back to the by"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":76.26,"endTime":79.59,"body":"the end of the dog. I am so"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":79.59,"endTime":82.2,"body":"excited for this episode. This"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":79.59,"endTime":82.2,"body":"week, we're going to super geek"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":82.2,"endTime":86.13,"body":"out because I've got the amazing"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":82.2,"endTime":86.13,"body":"Dr. Christina Spaulding. I'm"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":86.13,"endTime":88.56,"body":"super excited for this episode"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":86.13,"endTime":88.56,"body":"because we're gonna geek out"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":88.56,"endTime":92.49,"body":"about a lot of different terms"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":88.56,"endTime":92.49,"body":"that we throw around in the dog"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":92.49,"endTime":94.83,"body":"training community, which we're"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":92.49,"endTime":94.83,"body":"gonna get to in a minute, but"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":94.83,"endTime":97.11,"body":"let me tell you a little bit"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":94.83,"endTime":97.11,"body":"about Christina. She owns the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":97.11,"endTime":101.01,"body":"science matters Academy of"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":97.11,"endTime":101.01,"body":"animal behavior LLC, and has"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":101.01,"endTime":103.59,"body":"been in the dog training and"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":101.01,"endTime":103.59,"body":"behavior profession for over 20"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":103.59,"endTime":107.88,"body":"years. She has a PhD in bio"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":103.59,"endTime":107.88,"body":"psychology, which is the study"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":107.88,"endTime":111.39,"body":"of the biological basis of"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":107.88,"endTime":111.39,"body":"behavior, and is a certified"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":111.39,"endTime":114.78,"body":"applied animal behaviorist. She"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":111.39,"endTime":114.78,"body":"also has a BS in wildlife"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":114.78,"endTime":118.26,"body":"ecology from the University of"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":114.78,"endTime":118.26,"body":"Wisconsin Madison. She's"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":118.26,"endTime":122.4,"body":"particularly interested in"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":118.26,"endTime":122.4,"body":"stress, neurobiology, cognition,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":122.43,"endTime":126.0,"body":"emotion and wellbeing, and how"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":122.43,"endTime":126.0,"body":"to apply these concepts to the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":126.0,"endTime":128.4,"body":"prevention and early"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":126.0,"endTime":128.4,"body":"intervention of behavior"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":128.4,"endTime":131.58,"body":"problems in dogs. In addition to"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":128.4,"endTime":131.58,"body":"working with behavior clients,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":131.58,"endTime":135.15,"body":"Dr. Spalding teaches a variety"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":131.58,"endTime":135.15,"body":"of online courses and webinars"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":135.15,"endTime":138.09,"body":"on the science of behavior"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":135.15,"endTime":138.09,"body":"through her website. Science"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":138.09,"endTime":142.26,"body":"matters llc.com. She also"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":138.09,"endTime":142.26,"body":"regularly presents on canine"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":142.26,"endTime":145.17,"body":"behavior, science at conferences"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":142.26,"endTime":145.17,"body":"and other events. I've seen a"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":145.17,"endTime":147.84,"body":"bunch of her talks and I always"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":145.17,"endTime":147.84,"body":"love watching all the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":147.84,"endTime":151.2,"body":"information she shares. In 2019,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":147.84,"endTime":151.2,"body":"Dr. Spalding received the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":151.2,"endTime":154.62,"body":"Association of Professional Dog"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":151.2,"endTime":154.62,"body":"Trainers APDT, member of the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":154.62,"endTime":158.61,"body":"Year Award, she currently serves"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":154.62,"endTime":158.61,"body":"on the IW, ABC Foundation Board"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":158.61,"endTime":162.9,"body":"and the fear free advisory"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":158.61,"endTime":162.9,"body":"group. And she's writing a book"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":162.9,"endTime":166.08,"body":"on stress called the stress"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":162.9,"endTime":166.08,"body":"factor in dogs, which we might"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":166.08,"endTime":169.38,"body":"hear more about later. So"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":166.08,"endTime":169.38,"body":"welcome to the show, Christina,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":169.889,"endTime":172.079,"body":"thank you so much for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":169.889,"endTime":172.079,"body":"having me, I'm excited to be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":172.079,"endTime":173.339,"body":"here, this is going to be an"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":173.37,"endTime":174.93,"body":"awesome"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":173.37,"endTime":174.93,"body":"conversation, because there's so"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":174.93,"endTime":176.46,"body":"many things I want to talk"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":174.93,"endTime":176.46,"body":"about. And I was just"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":176.46,"endTime":179.1,"body":"mentioning, you know, in the dog"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":176.46,"endTime":179.1,"body":"training community, we like to"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":179.1,"endTime":182.88,"body":"throw around a lot of terms and"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":179.1,"endTime":182.88,"body":"labels, things like arousal, or"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":182.88,"endTime":187.92,"body":"impulse control, or stress and"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":182.88,"endTime":187.92,"body":"reactivity, even in all of these"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":187.92,"endTime":191.16,"body":"can be confusing sometimes,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":187.92,"endTime":191.16,"body":"because they're not always"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":191.16,"endTime":194.91,"body":"defined necessarily the same"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":191.16,"endTime":194.91,"body":"depending on who you're talking"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":194.91,"endTime":198.66,"body":"to. So I'd love to start talking"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":194.91,"endTime":198.66,"body":"about stress, because it's"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":198.66,"endTime":201.09,"body":"obviously something that's very"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":198.66,"endTime":201.09,"body":"important to recognize and"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":201.09,"endTime":204.81,"body":"understand in dogs, especially"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":201.09,"endTime":204.81,"body":"in aggression cases. So let's"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":204.81,"endTime":207.06,"body":"start with that. If you could"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":204.81,"endTime":207.06,"body":"kind of tell me, you know, in"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":207.06,"endTime":209.55,"body":"your mind, when somebody says"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":207.06,"endTime":209.55,"body":"stress, you know, Christina,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":209.55,"endTime":211.89,"body":"what is stress? How do you"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":209.55,"endTime":211.89,"body":"define that if you were to give"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":211.89,"endTime":213.21,"body":"your elevator response?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":214.08,"endTime":218.7,"body":"Yeah, so stress is, it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":214.08,"endTime":218.7,"body":"refers to a physiological"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":218.7,"endTime":222.81,"body":"response to a particular"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":218.7,"endTime":222.81,"body":"trigger. And the types of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":222.81,"endTime":227.97,"body":"triggers that cause stress is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":222.81,"endTime":227.97,"body":"anything that causes a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":227.97,"endTime":231.18,"body":"disruption from baseline is the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":227.97,"endTime":231.18,"body":"easiest way to put it, or even"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":231.18,"endTime":235.5,"body":"just I simply often say stress"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":231.18,"endTime":235.5,"body":"is change, essentially. So there"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":235.5,"endTime":239.4,"body":"are two different physiological"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":235.5,"endTime":239.4,"body":"responses that occur. There's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":239.43,"endTime":244.05,"body":"the release of epinephrine or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":239.43,"endTime":244.05,"body":"norepinephrine, well,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":244.08,"endTime":247.95,"body":"epinephrine and norepinephrine,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":244.08,"endTime":247.95,"body":"which many people know better as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":247.95,"endTime":251.58,"body":"adrenaline and noradrenaline"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":247.95,"endTime":251.58,"body":"sometimes, sometimes scientists"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":251.58,"endTime":255.45,"body":"like to change names on things."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":251.58,"endTime":255.45,"body":"And that is that very sort of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":255.48,"endTime":259.47,"body":"rapid response that you get, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":255.48,"endTime":259.47,"body":"then you get a somewhat slower"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":259.47,"endTime":263.4,"body":"release of stress hormones. 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So good stress would"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":292.44,"endTime":296.73,"body":"be something that is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":297.33,"endTime":303.18,"body":"challenging, but not just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":297.33,"endTime":303.18,"body":"stressing, so this podcast for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":303.21,"endTime":305.79,"body":"at least for me, you do this a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":303.21,"endTime":305.79,"body":"little bit more often, right?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":305.79,"endTime":309.03,"body":"But this is my first time being"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":305.79,"endTime":309.03,"body":"on this podcast. So this is a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":309.03,"endTime":312.06,"body":"little bit stressful for me but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":309.03,"endTime":312.06,"body":"not in a bad way, right? It's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":312.06,"endTime":315.24,"body":"just, it's just like going to a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":312.06,"endTime":315.24,"body":"conference is stressful, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":315.24,"endTime":319.5,"body":"might enjoy it. But it's a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":315.24,"endTime":319.5,"body":"disruption from your normal"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":319.5,"endTime":323.97,"body":"activity. So going for a walk is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":319.5,"endTime":323.97,"body":"stressful. You know, we don't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":323.97,"endTime":327.54,"body":"think of it as being stressful,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":323.97,"endTime":327.54,"body":"but it's not, you know, your"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":327.72,"endTime":332.91,"body":"physical activity is stress. So,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":327.72,"endTime":332.91,"body":"when we start getting into"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":332.91,"endTime":336.21,"body":"concerning stresses, when we're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":332.91,"endTime":336.21,"body":"talking about to some degree"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":336.21,"endTime":339.36,"body":"tolerable, but especially toxic"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":336.21,"endTime":339.36,"body":"stress, so tolerable stress is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":339.36,"endTime":342.72,"body":"something that is challenging,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":339.36,"endTime":342.72,"body":"but the animal's able to cope"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":342.72,"endTime":348.33,"body":"with it. So this could be going"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":342.72,"endTime":348.33,"body":"through, you know, moving or a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":348.33,"endTime":351.51,"body":"change of job, you know, there's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":348.33,"endTime":351.51,"body":"all kinds of different things"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":351.51,"endTime":354.51,"body":"that could fall into that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":351.51,"endTime":354.51,"body":"category. And it may be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":354.51,"endTime":358.02,"body":"distressing, but the individual"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":354.51,"endTime":358.02,"body":"comes out, okay, on the other"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":358.02,"endTime":362.4,"body":"side, and then you have toxic"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":358.02,"endTime":362.4,"body":"stress, which is what we're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":362.4,"endTime":365.91,"body":"usually talking about when we're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":362.4,"endTime":365.91,"body":"talking about stress. And that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":365.91,"endTime":368.79,"body":"is stress that exceeds an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":365.91,"endTime":368.79,"body":"animal's ability to cope with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":368.79,"endTime":372.24,"body":"it. And that is the kind of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":368.79,"endTime":372.24,"body":"stress that leads to all kinds"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":372.24,"endTime":373.68,"body":"of problems down the road."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":374.46,"endTime":375.9,"body":"And so just"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":374.46,"endTime":375.9,"body":"to jump back to the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":375.9,"endTime":379.77,"body":"physiological aspects you're"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":375.9,"endTime":379.77,"body":"talking about, and what has"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":379.77,"endTime":383.07,"body":"happening in that toxic stress"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":379.77,"endTime":383.07,"body":"level when you're looking at"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":383.07,"endTime":387.12,"body":"this physiological responses and"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":383.07,"endTime":387.12,"body":"what's happening from a chemical"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":387.12,"endTime":387.66,"body":"response."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":387.93,"endTime":393.48,"body":"So toxic stress can be,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":387.93,"endTime":393.48,"body":"it can be acute, this would be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":393.48,"endTime":398.46,"body":"like a trauma experience, for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":393.48,"endTime":398.46,"body":"example, as far as I know, we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":398.46,"endTime":403.38,"body":"don't have as much of an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":398.46,"endTime":403.38,"body":"understanding of what is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":403.38,"endTime":407.25,"body":"happening there. From a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":403.38,"endTime":407.25,"body":"physiological perspective, in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":407.25,"endTime":411.54,"body":"terms of what how does trauma"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":407.25,"endTime":411.54,"body":"look, physiologically, or how is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":411.54,"endTime":415.59,"body":"that different than just other"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":411.54,"endTime":415.59,"body":"types of stress. But what is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":415.59,"endTime":420.0,"body":"really well understood is the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":415.59,"endTime":420.0,"body":"impacts of chronic stress and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":420.0,"endTime":423.39,"body":"developmental stress. And so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":420.0,"endTime":423.39,"body":"what happens when an animal is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":423.39,"endTime":427.8,"body":"experienced chronic stress or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":423.39,"endTime":427.8,"body":"toxic developmental stress is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":427.83,"endTime":433.17,"body":"that the stress system breaks."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":427.83,"endTime":433.17,"body":"So normally, what happens is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":433.2,"endTime":436.98,"body":"cortisol levels increase, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":433.2,"endTime":436.98,"body":"then there's an automatic"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":436.98,"endTime":440.04,"body":"shutoff valve that happens once"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":436.98,"endTime":440.04,"body":"they reach a certain level that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":440.04,"endTime":444.18,"body":"brings them back down again,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":440.04,"endTime":444.18,"body":"with toxic stress, what happens"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":444.21,"endTime":449.28,"body":"is, that system stops"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":444.21,"endTime":449.28,"body":"functioning correctly. And so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":449.82,"endTime":453.96,"body":"there's not an automatic shut"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":449.82,"endTime":453.96,"body":"off of the stress response. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":453.96,"endTime":456.84,"body":"that leads to all kinds of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":453.96,"endTime":456.84,"body":"dysregulation throughout the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":456.84,"endTime":460.92,"body":"body, because the stress"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":456.84,"endTime":460.92,"body":"hormones impact many different"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":460.92,"endTime":464.07,"body":"systems in the body, because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":460.92,"endTime":464.07,"body":"what they're doing is they're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":464.07,"endTime":468.27,"body":"preparing the body for fight or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":464.07,"endTime":468.27,"body":"flight. So that involves certain"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":468.27,"endTime":473.22,"body":"things like shutting down growth"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":468.27,"endTime":473.22,"body":"in a young animal, shutting down"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":473.58,"endTime":477.24,"body":"many aspects of immune function,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":473.58,"endTime":477.24,"body":"shutting down reproduction,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":477.24,"endTime":481.08,"body":"shutting down digestion, because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":477.24,"endTime":481.08,"body":"if you're running for your life,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":481.32,"endTime":484.77,"body":"you don't need to worry about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":481.32,"endTime":484.77,"body":"digesting the last meal that you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":484.77,"endTime":488.94,"body":"ate. In that moment, all of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":484.77,"endTime":488.94,"body":"body's energy is focused on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":488.97,"endTime":494.91,"body":"surviving in the immediate"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":488.97,"endTime":494.91,"body":"future. And so that's great if"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":494.91,"endTime":500.13,"body":"you're just, you know, having a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":494.91,"endTime":500.13,"body":"relatively short moment of acute"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":500.13,"endTime":505.53,"body":"stress. But if your GI system,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":500.13,"endTime":505.53,"body":"if your reproductive system, if"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":505.53,"endTime":509.07,"body":"your immune system are shut down"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":505.53,"endTime":509.07,"body":"for long periods of time, as I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":509.07,"endTime":514.32,"body":"sure you can imagine, that leads"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":509.07,"endTime":514.32,"body":"to all kinds of issues with the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":514.32,"endTime":517.32,"body":"health of the animal. And then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":514.32,"endTime":517.32,"body":"you also have like heightened"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":517.47,"endTime":522.87,"body":"fear and heightened arousal and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":517.47,"endTime":522.87,"body":"startle response. And so that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":522.87,"endTime":525.9,"body":"also can lead to all kinds of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":522.87,"endTime":525.9,"body":"problems. And ultimately, it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":525.9,"endTime":527.31,"body":"actually changes the brain."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":528.3,"endTime":530.28,"body":"So lots to"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":528.3,"endTime":530.28,"body":"unpack here. And what I was"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":530.28,"endTime":532.92,"body":"thinking about too, was also the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":530.28,"endTime":532.92,"body":"sort of the three levels of"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":532.92,"endTime":535.95,"body":"stress you were mentioning, and"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":532.92,"endTime":535.95,"body":"let's take your classic, you"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":535.95,"endTime":539.58,"body":"know, aggressive behaviors, we"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":535.95,"endTime":539.58,"body":"might see it so dog barking and"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":539.58,"endTime":543.27,"body":"lunging at other dogs on a walk,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":539.58,"endTime":543.27,"body":"we might argue that there could"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":543.27,"endTime":546.93,"body":"be different depending on the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":543.27,"endTime":546.93,"body":"dog, they might be experiencing"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":546.93,"endTime":550.62,"body":"one of those three levels,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":546.93,"endTime":550.62,"body":"right, depending on, I guess,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":550.65,"endTime":553.41,"body":"the environmental factors as"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":550.65,"endTime":553.41,"body":"well as what how that dog"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":553.41,"endTime":557.07,"body":"perceives that particular"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":553.41,"endTime":557.07,"body":"antecedent, right? So can you"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":557.1,"endTime":560.22,"body":"unpack that a little further for"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":557.1,"endTime":560.22,"body":"me? So like, you know what, I"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":560.22,"endTime":562.71,"body":"guess I guess the bigger"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":560.22,"endTime":562.71,"body":"question is, in the vast"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":562.71,"endTime":565.59,"body":"majority of aggression cases,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":562.71,"endTime":565.59,"body":"what kind of stress would you"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":565.59,"endTime":567.99,"body":"say is happening? Yeah. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":567.99,"endTime":570.81,"body":"that can be tricky."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":567.99,"endTime":570.81,"body":"It's really it's easy enough to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":570.81,"endTime":573.63,"body":"talk about these three different"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":570.81,"endTime":573.63,"body":"categories, but then identifying"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":573.63,"endTime":576.66,"body":"what's actually happening in an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":573.63,"endTime":576.66,"body":"individual can get very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":576.66,"endTime":583.35,"body":"difficult. And so part of what's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":576.66,"endTime":583.35,"body":"going on is that stress hormone"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":583.35,"endTime":587.58,"body":"levels, which is the primary way"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":583.35,"endTime":587.58,"body":"that stress is measured, they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":587.58,"endTime":590.49,"body":"tell us how stressed the animal"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":587.58,"endTime":590.49,"body":"is. They don't tell us about the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":590.49,"endTime":593.22,"body":"valence. And so the valence"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":590.49,"endTime":593.22,"body":"would I always call it the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":593.22,"endTime":596.01,"body":"flavor of the emotion, right? Is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":593.22,"endTime":596.01,"body":"it good or is it bad? Is it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":596.01,"endTime":600.63,"body":"negative or positive? And so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":596.01,"endTime":600.63,"body":"reactive? Dogs are a great"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":600.63,"endTime":602.64,"body":"example, right? If you're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":600.63,"endTime":602.64,"body":"looking at a dog that is barking"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":602.64,"endTime":606.54,"body":"or lunging on leash, that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":602.64,"endTime":606.54,"body":"information alone, right is not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":606.54,"endTime":609.75,"body":"enough to tell us. I mean, maybe"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":606.54,"endTime":609.75,"body":"they're happy, like maybe"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":609.75,"endTime":611.55,"body":"they're barking or lunging"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":609.75,"endTime":611.55,"body":"because they're very excited"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":611.55,"endTime":614.85,"body":"about something that you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":611.55,"endTime":614.85,"body":"they enjoy. Or maybe they're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":614.85,"endTime":617.7,"body":"terrified, or maybe they're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":614.85,"endTime":617.7,"body":"actually have some kind of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":617.7,"endTime":621.6,"body":"animosity or dislike, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":617.7,"endTime":621.6,"body":"other dogs or whatever the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":621.6,"endTime":627.6,"body":"trigger is. And so it gets"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":621.6,"endTime":627.6,"body":"difficult to figure out what's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":627.6,"endTime":631.77,"body":"going on there. But I would say"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":627.6,"endTime":631.77,"body":"that probably in the vast"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":631.77,"endTime":636.15,"body":"majority of aggression cases,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":631.77,"endTime":636.15,"body":"we're talking about some form of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":636.15,"endTime":642.96,"body":"toxic stress. And it could be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":636.15,"endTime":642.96,"body":"chronic stress. Or you could be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":642.96,"endTime":646.98,"body":"dealing with the long term"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":642.96,"endTime":646.98,"body":"effects of stress during"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":646.98,"endTime":652.08,"body":"development. Obviously, as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":646.98,"endTime":652.08,"body":"always, we have to treat each"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":652.29,"endTime":656.01,"body":"animal as an individual. So Are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":652.29,"endTime":656.01,"body":"there cases where you might see"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":656.01,"endTime":659.55,"body":"aggression and a dog that's just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":656.01,"endTime":659.55,"body":"showing tolerable stress? Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":659.58,"endTime":663.45,"body":"probably. But that's probably"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":659.58,"endTime":663.45,"body":"not typically what we would be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":663.45,"endTime":664.14,"body":"dealing with."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":664.95,"endTime":666.75,"body":"Yeah, I was"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":664.95,"endTime":666.75,"body":"thinking kind of along the lines"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":666.75,"endTime":669.12,"body":"of once a behavior, well, a"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":666.75,"endTime":669.12,"body":"couple of different"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":669.12,"endTime":672.84,"body":"circumstances, once a behavior"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":669.12,"endTime":672.84,"body":"becomes more practiced in sort"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":672.84,"endTime":675.9,"body":"of, I guess, what's the word I'm"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":672.84,"endTime":675.9,"body":"looking for operates in the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":675.9,"endTime":680.01,"body":"sense of, you know, it's not"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":675.9,"endTime":680.01,"body":"quite as a extreme event for the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":680.01,"endTime":682.83,"body":"dog anymore. In other words,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":680.01,"endTime":682.83,"body":"it's somebody walking by the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":682.83,"endTime":685.29,"body":"football, again, sticking their"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":682.83,"endTime":685.29,"body":"hand in there doing something"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":685.29,"endTime":689.01,"body":"silly that humans shouldn't do."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":685.29,"endTime":689.01,"body":"But it's, we can argue that the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":689.37,"endTime":693.33,"body":"distress level might change"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":689.37,"endTime":693.33,"body":"because of the dog sort of"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":693.33,"endTime":694.95,"body":"getting used to it for lack of a"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":693.33,"endTime":694.95,"body":"better word."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":696.12,"endTime":699.48,"body":"Yeah, so if the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":696.12,"endTime":699.48,"body":"aggression is working, and this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":699.48,"endTime":701.79,"body":"is, I think this is another"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":699.48,"endTime":701.79,"body":"important distinction, right?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":701.79,"endTime":708.63,"body":"Because if a dog is continuing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":701.79,"endTime":708.63,"body":"to aggress, and it's not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":708.72,"endTime":712.32,"body":"decreasing their negative"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":708.72,"endTime":712.32,"body":"emotions, it's not working,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":712.41,"endTime":718.83,"body":"right. And so that's a different"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":712.41,"endTime":718.83,"body":"issue than if they're displaying"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":718.86,"endTime":722.4,"body":"aggression in a functional way."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":718.86,"endTime":722.4,"body":"And it's meeting their needs and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":722.4,"endTime":724.62,"body":"decreasing their negative"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":722.4,"endTime":724.62,"body":"emotions, that's different. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":724.62,"endTime":726.42,"body":"that's actually an important"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":724.62,"endTime":726.42,"body":"distinction that I wasn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":726.42,"endTime":729.63,"body":"thinking of before. So in that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":726.42,"endTime":729.63,"body":"case, yeah, they may not be in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":729.63,"endTime":732.96,"body":"toxic stress, right? So and we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":729.63,"endTime":732.96,"body":"have to remember that aggression"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":732.96,"endTime":736.53,"body":"is, in some cases, aggression is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":732.96,"endTime":736.53,"body":"simply communication. And so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":736.53,"endTime":738.66,"body":"they're just saying, I don't,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":736.53,"endTime":738.66,"body":"you know, I don't want you to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":738.66,"endTime":742.17,"body":"have my bone. And then if it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":738.66,"endTime":742.17,"body":"works, and there's no major"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":742.17,"endTime":747.03,"body":"Fallout, then that probably is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":742.17,"endTime":747.03,"body":"not toxic stress, maybe not even"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":747.03,"endTime":750.69,"body":"tolerable stress, depending on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":747.03,"endTime":750.69,"body":"the situation. So what I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":750.69,"endTime":756.21,"body":"thinking of is dogs that are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":750.69,"endTime":756.21,"body":"being driven by some kind of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":756.21,"endTime":762.06,"body":"anxiety or fear, or some other"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":756.21,"endTime":762.06,"body":"negative emotion that is causing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":762.06,"endTime":765.18,"body":"them to behave in that way,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":762.06,"endTime":765.18,"body":"those individuals are probably"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":765.18,"endTime":768.27,"body":"typically under toxic stress."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":768.72,"endTime":771.75,"body":"So as as"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":768.72,"endTime":771.75,"body":"trainers in our observations,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":771.78,"endTime":775.44,"body":"what can we do to observe or"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":771.78,"endTime":775.44,"body":"measure if we were to measure or"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":775.47,"endTime":778.65,"body":"kind of assign a category of"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":775.47,"endTime":778.65,"body":"stress? Is there anything like"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":778.68,"endTime":781.23,"body":"we can observe physiologically"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":778.68,"endTime":781.23,"body":"or behaviorally?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":782.55,"endTime":786.72,"body":"Yeah. So I mean,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":782.55,"endTime":786.72,"body":"obviously, body language is a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":786.72,"endTime":789.45,"body":"big one. So just the typical,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":786.72,"endTime":789.45,"body":"you know, read the body"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":789.45,"endTime":793.77,"body":"language, of course, is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":789.45,"endTime":793.77,"body":"important. But there are a few"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":793.77,"endTime":797.85,"body":"things I look at. So first is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":793.77,"endTime":797.85,"body":"gathering a history. Because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":798.33,"endTime":801.18,"body":"when we think about stress,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":798.33,"endTime":801.18,"body":"there's really two things we're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":801.18,"endTime":804.03,"body":"talking about. We're talking"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":801.18,"endTime":804.03,"body":"about stress in the moments. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":804.03,"endTime":806.94,"body":"we're also talking about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":804.03,"endTime":806.94,"body":"developmental stress."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":807.72,"endTime":810.75,"body":"Developmental stress changes the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":807.72,"endTime":810.75,"body":"brain, and it changes the stress"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":810.75,"endTime":816.63,"body":"response system, it can if it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":810.75,"endTime":816.63,"body":"severe enough. And so the dog"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":816.63,"endTime":820.11,"body":"may not be obviously in a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":816.63,"endTime":820.11,"body":"stressful situation, but they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":820.11,"endTime":823.2,"body":"could still be impacted by"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":820.11,"endTime":823.2,"body":"stress that they experienced"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":823.23,"endTime":826.32,"body":"years ago. So that's the first"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":823.23,"endTime":826.32,"body":"thing is you want to try and get"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":826.32,"endTime":829.59,"body":"if you can get a history, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":826.32,"endTime":829.59,"body":"doesn't tell us everything"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":829.59,"endTime":834.51,"body":"because again, every animal is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":829.59,"endTime":834.51,"body":"an individual. But I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":834.51,"endTime":839.4,"body":"think differently. I think about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":834.51,"endTime":839.4,"body":"a case, if I know that a dog,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":839.4,"endTime":843.66,"body":"for example, was born in a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":839.4,"endTime":843.66,"body":"shelter, or was transferred all"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":843.66,"endTime":848.37,"body":"over the place, or, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":843.66,"endTime":848.37,"body":"had a really traumatic upsetting"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":848.82,"endTime":852.6,"body":"event when they were young, or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":848.82,"endTime":852.6,"body":"were really, really sick. That"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":852.63,"endTime":857.22,"body":"to me suggests that there may be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":852.63,"endTime":857.22,"body":"something going on in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":857.22,"endTime":860.64,"body":"building blocks of that dog that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":857.22,"endTime":860.64,"body":"are going to be different than a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":860.64,"endTime":863.94,"body":"dog that didn't have those"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":860.64,"endTime":863.94,"body":"experiences. Genetics matters,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":863.94,"endTime":867.42,"body":"too. But if we're talking about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":863.94,"endTime":867.42,"body":"stress, and that counts,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":867.42,"endTime":870.99,"body":"prenatal stress counts, too, by"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":867.42,"endTime":870.99,"body":"the way. So if mom is stressed,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":871.23,"endTime":875.64,"body":"that can also lead to issues. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":871.23,"endTime":875.64,"body":"that's one thing, if we're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":875.64,"endTime":880.2,"body":"trying to assess stress in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":875.64,"endTime":880.2,"body":"moment, one thing you want to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":880.2,"endTime":884.64,"body":"try and look at is how"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":880.2,"endTime":884.64,"body":"consistently does this animal"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":884.64,"endTime":888.33,"body":"appear to be distressed? So is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":884.64,"endTime":888.33,"body":"are we talking about? A very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":888.33,"endTime":893.28,"body":"specific fear that only happens"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":888.33,"endTime":893.28,"body":"periodically, or a very specific"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":893.28,"endTime":896.49,"body":"trigger that only happens"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":893.28,"endTime":896.49,"body":"periodically, or are we talking"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":896.49,"endTime":903.6,"body":"about some kind of anxiety or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":896.49,"endTime":903.6,"body":"fear or behavior that is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":903.63,"endTime":907.77,"body":"pervasive or happening multiple"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":903.63,"endTime":907.77,"body":"times a day, especially in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":907.77,"endTime":911.67,"body":"multiple different contexts. If"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":907.77,"endTime":911.67,"body":"you're seeing that it's very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":911.67,"endTime":916.14,"body":"likely, it's much more likely"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":911.67,"endTime":916.14,"body":"that that animal is under toxic"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":916.14,"endTime":919.92,"body":"stress, or chronic stress."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":916.14,"endTime":919.92,"body":"Again, they're, in almost all"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":919.92,"endTime":923.97,"body":"cases, chronic stress is toxic,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":919.92,"endTime":923.97,"body":"it's just very, very bad. The"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":923.97,"endTime":927.69,"body":"other thing that you can look at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":923.97,"endTime":927.69,"body":"in the moment are things like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":927.96,"endTime":932.16,"body":"recovery time, I think, is a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":927.96,"endTime":932.16,"body":"really big one. So animals and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":932.16,"endTime":935.16,"body":"some of this is individual"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":932.16,"endTime":935.16,"body":"differences. And we can talk"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":935.16,"endTime":937.65,"body":"about that too, when we talk"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":935.16,"endTime":937.65,"body":"about reactivity. But if an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":937.65,"endTime":941.76,"body":"animal is taking a very long"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":937.65,"endTime":941.76,"body":"time to recover from an event,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":942.09,"endTime":947.34,"body":"that to me is a sign that their"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":942.09,"endTime":947.34,"body":"stress levels are too high. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":948.09,"endTime":952.92,"body":"other things like decreased"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":948.09,"endTime":952.92,"body":"interest in activities, right."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":952.92,"endTime":957.39,"body":"So decreased pleasure, decreased"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":952.92,"endTime":957.39,"body":"food motivation, decreased"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":957.39,"endTime":963.33,"body":"motivation for play, hyper"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":957.39,"endTime":963.33,"body":"vigilance, and startle response."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":963.33,"endTime":967.02,"body":"Those are other signs. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":963.33,"endTime":967.02,"body":"again, sometimes it happens. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":967.02,"endTime":970.11,"body":"if it's only happening"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":967.02,"endTime":970.11,"body":"periodically, that's fine. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":970.29,"endTime":973.47,"body":"if you're seeing a dog that is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":970.29,"endTime":973.47,"body":"consistently hyper vigilant,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":973.5,"endTime":977.22,"body":"that suggests to me that they're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":973.5,"endTime":977.22,"body":"under, probably, again, too much"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":977.22,"endTime":980.91,"body":"stress. So those are the big"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":977.22,"endTime":980.91,"body":"ones. And then repetitive"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":980.91,"endTime":985.5,"body":"behavior, which I don't think we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":980.91,"endTime":985.5,"body":"necessarily deal with a whole"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":985.5,"endTime":990.99,"body":"lot like shelters would more."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":985.5,"endTime":990.99,"body":"But personally, I haven't seen a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":990.99,"endTime":995.4,"body":"ton of repetitive behavior"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":990.99,"endTime":995.4,"body":"related to aggression in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":995.7,"endTime":997.95,"body":"households. I don't know what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":995.7,"endTime":997.95,"body":"your experience is"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":998.04,"endTime":1001.1,"body":"not much. No,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":998.04,"endTime":1001.1,"body":"are very uncommon. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1001.73,"endTime":1004.13,"body":"But certainly in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1001.73,"endTime":1004.13,"body":"shelters, that would be a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1004.13,"endTime":1007.85,"body":"concerning sign. And then the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1004.13,"endTime":1007.85,"body":"other one is just is health"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1007.85,"endTime":1012.65,"body":"issues, particularly unexplained"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1007.85,"endTime":1012.65,"body":"health issues. And sometimes I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1012.65,"endTime":1015.5,"body":"think we missed the I mean,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1012.65,"endTime":1015.5,"body":"probably frequently, we missed"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1015.5,"endTime":1020.72,"body":"these. But, you know, GI issues"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1015.5,"endTime":1020.72,"body":"is a big sign of stress, skin"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1020.72,"endTime":1023.45,"body":"issues, you know, things like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1020.72,"endTime":1023.45,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1024.32,"endTime":1027.26,"body":"It's"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1024.32,"endTime":1027.26,"body":"interesting, a lot of the things"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1027.26,"endTime":1030.68,"body":"you were talking about is how I"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1027.26,"endTime":1030.68,"body":"also would talk about him when"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1030.68,"endTime":1033.53,"body":"we're talking about emotions,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1030.68,"endTime":1033.53,"body":"and how to measure or make an"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1033.53,"endTime":1035.78,"body":"educated guess on what's"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1033.53,"endTime":1035.78,"body":"happening from an emotional"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1035.78,"endTime":1039.05,"body":"state as well. There's a lot of"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1035.78,"endTime":1039.05,"body":"parallels there. But you also,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1039.2,"endTime":1041.18,"body":"you one of the most important"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1039.2,"endTime":1041.18,"body":"things you mentioned to me was"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1041.18,"endTime":1044.54,"body":"the recovery time, or what you"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1041.18,"endTime":1044.54,"body":"might recall, referred to as"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1044.54,"endTime":1046.82,"body":"resiliency. Am I correct there"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1044.54,"endTime":1046.82,"body":"and saying, How long does it"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1046.82,"endTime":1050.15,"body":"take the dog to come back to"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1046.82,"endTime":1050.15,"body":"level of homeostasis? Or is that"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1050.15,"endTime":1051.56,"body":"a broader topic?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1051.56,"endTime":1053.39,"body":"Resilience is broader"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1051.56,"endTime":1053.39,"body":"than that? Yeah."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1053.42,"endTime":1055.25,"body":"Okay. So"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1053.42,"endTime":1055.25,"body":"let's jump into that, you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1055.76,"endTime":1058.04,"body":"when we're measuring it, you"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1055.76,"endTime":1058.04,"body":"know, and we're because that's"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1058.04,"endTime":1061.52,"body":"an important aspect, especially"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1058.04,"endTime":1061.52,"body":"for us as trainers, when we're"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1061.52,"endTime":1064.76,"body":"crafting our behavior plans, if"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1061.52,"endTime":1064.76,"body":"the dog is still at a high level"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1064.76,"endTime":1067.28,"body":"of stress, or in a high state of"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1064.76,"endTime":1067.28,"body":"stress, and we're not"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1067.28,"endTime":1070.22,"body":"recognizing that we're trying to"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1067.28,"endTime":1070.22,"body":"put the dog back into a training"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1070.22,"endTime":1073.28,"body":"session, we run the risk, a lot"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1070.22,"endTime":1073.28,"body":"of risks, right, we couldn't"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1073.28,"endTime":1077.0,"body":"make things significantly worse"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1073.28,"endTime":1077.0,"body":"for the dog. And we have to"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1077.0,"endTime":1079.64,"body":"think just how much we can make"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1077.0,"endTime":1079.64,"body":"things worse, you were just"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1079.64,"endTime":1082.37,"body":"talking about the health"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1079.64,"endTime":1082.37,"body":"aspects. And when we're looking"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1082.37,"endTime":1085.61,"body":"at the least intrusive"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1082.37,"endTime":1085.61,"body":"approaches to behavior change,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1085.85,"endTime":1088.85,"body":"think about what could be more"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1085.85,"endTime":1088.85,"body":"intrusive than impacting the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1088.85,"endTime":1092.09,"body":"health of the animal rather"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1088.85,"endTime":1092.09,"body":"stressful situations? So yeah,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1092.09,"endTime":1094.76,"body":"so So talk more about"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1092.09,"endTime":1094.76,"body":"resiliency? And because I know"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1094.76,"endTime":1096.74,"body":"you're going to be talking about"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1094.76,"endTime":1096.74,"body":"that in your book as well. But"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1096.95,"endTime":1099.8,"body":"what is something? How would you"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1096.95,"endTime":1099.8,"body":"define that?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1100.31,"endTime":1105.44,"body":"Yeah, so resiliency is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1100.31,"endTime":1105.44,"body":"is really the idea of how well"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1105.44,"endTime":1110.69,"body":"does an animal cope with stress."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1105.44,"endTime":1110.69,"body":"And what that means is, what is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1110.69,"endTime":1116.78,"body":"the individual's ability to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1110.69,"endTime":1116.78,"body":"experience challenge and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1117.35,"endTime":1120.89,"body":"successfully overcome it? I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1117.35,"endTime":1120.89,"body":"think that's the easiest way to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1120.89,"endTime":1126.17,"body":"think about resiliency. And so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1120.89,"endTime":1126.17,"body":"there are a number of different"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1126.38,"endTime":1132.02,"body":"things that are associated with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1126.38,"endTime":1132.02,"body":"resiliency. And I do use human"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1132.02,"endTime":1135.95,"body":"examples a lot, because I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1132.02,"endTime":1135.95,"body":"it helps us relate. And so an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1135.95,"endTime":1140.18,"body":"example of like, you know, if"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1135.95,"endTime":1140.18,"body":"you think of, I mean, COVID is a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1140.18,"endTime":1142.94,"body":"great example. Right? So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1140.18,"endTime":1142.94,"body":"obviously, individuals are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1142.94,"endTime":1147.59,"body":"impacted differently by COVID."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1142.94,"endTime":1147.59,"body":"And some people that was because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1147.59,"endTime":1150.98,"body":"of external things that were"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1147.59,"endTime":1150.98,"body":"going on that they were impacted"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1150.98,"endTime":1154.88,"body":"more, but also has to do with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1150.98,"endTime":1154.88,"body":"how well are you coping? What"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1154.88,"endTime":1158.36,"body":"are you doing to cope, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1154.88,"endTime":1158.36,"body":"what is your Are you able to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1158.36,"endTime":1162.65,"body":"adjust to the change in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1158.36,"endTime":1162.65,"body":"circumstances. So one really big"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1163.34,"endTime":1169.07,"body":"factor in resiliency is flexible"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1163.34,"endTime":1169.07,"body":"thinking and behavior. So if an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1169.07,"endTime":1172.01,"body":"animal gets stuck, and again, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1169.07,"endTime":1172.01,"body":"think of I always think of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1172.01,"endTime":1175.22,"body":"reactive dogs, when I think of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1172.01,"endTime":1175.22,"body":"this is if an animal leash"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1175.22,"endTime":1178.79,"body":"reactive dogs, if an animal gets"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1175.22,"endTime":1178.79,"body":"stuck in a particular behavior,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1178.79,"endTime":1181.04,"body":"and they just have to repeat"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1178.79,"endTime":1181.04,"body":"that behavior over and over"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1181.04,"endTime":1185.15,"body":"again, and that's their only"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1181.04,"endTime":1185.15,"body":"their only perceived option."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1185.84,"endTime":1188.78,"body":"That tends to be associated with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1185.84,"endTime":1188.78,"body":"decreased resiliency because you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1188.78,"endTime":1191.78,"body":"can't adjust if that behavior we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1188.78,"endTime":1191.78,"body":"talked earlier about is it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1191.81,"endTime":1196.04,"body":"working? If that aggressive"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1191.81,"endTime":1196.04,"body":"response is not working for the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1196.04,"endTime":1199.4,"body":"animal and they're repeating it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1196.04,"endTime":1199.4,"body":"anyway, that's a sign of lack of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1199.4,"endTime":1201.74,"body":"flexibility. See, and it means"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1199.4,"endTime":1201.74,"body":"that it's going to be more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1201.74,"endTime":1205.25,"body":"difficult for them to cope with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1201.74,"endTime":1205.25,"body":"a challenging circumstance,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1205.25,"endTime":1207.89,"body":"because they only have one tool"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1205.25,"endTime":1207.89,"body":"in their toolbox. And so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1207.89,"endTime":1210.68,"body":"anything that we can do to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1207.89,"endTime":1210.68,"body":"increase when we talk about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1210.71,"endTime":1214.34,"body":"teaching alternative behaviors,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1210.71,"endTime":1214.34,"body":"effectively, what you're doing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1214.34,"endTime":1217.61,"body":"is you're increasing behavioral"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1214.34,"endTime":1217.61,"body":"flexibility, right. And if we're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1217.61,"endTime":1220.46,"body":"lucky, we're also increasing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1217.61,"endTime":1220.46,"body":"cognitive flexibility. So the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1220.46,"endTime":1223.61,"body":"animal starts to think through"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1220.46,"endTime":1223.61,"body":"these solutions on their own"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1223.61,"endTime":1227.54,"body":"instead of just being directed"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1223.61,"endTime":1227.54,"body":"to it. So that's one big aspect"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1227.9,"endTime":1234.05,"body":"of coping, then there's things"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1227.9,"endTime":1234.05,"body":"like access to enrichment and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1234.05,"endTime":1239.66,"body":"exercise. Those are also big"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1234.05,"endTime":1239.66,"body":"components of coping. And these"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1239.66,"endTime":1241.82,"body":"are things we can control,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1239.66,"endTime":1241.82,"body":"right? There's other things we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1241.82,"endTime":1245.66,"body":"can't control. But the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1241.82,"endTime":1245.66,"body":"flexibility we have some degree"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1245.66,"endTime":1248.33,"body":"of control of some of that has"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1245.66,"endTime":1248.33,"body":"to do with genetics and early"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1248.33,"endTime":1252.74,"body":"experience, but we can certainly"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1248.33,"endTime":1252.74,"body":"impact exercise and enrichment."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1253.25,"endTime":1257.63,"body":"And then control itself is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1253.25,"endTime":1257.63,"body":"really important for coping, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1257.63,"endTime":1259.79,"body":"we can talk about that more, if"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1257.63,"endTime":1259.79,"body":"you want to dig into that."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1260.3,"endTime":1264.95,"body":"Predictability is another one."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1260.3,"endTime":1264.95,"body":"So stressors that are more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1264.95,"endTime":1270.65,"body":"predictable, are less stressful."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1264.95,"endTime":1270.65,"body":"And then social support. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1270.68,"endTime":1275.36,"body":"having the ability, I have a dog"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1270.68,"endTime":1275.36,"body":"that is noise sensitive. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1275.57,"endTime":1278.72,"body":"because he's noise sensitive,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1275.57,"endTime":1278.72,"body":"he's has issues in the car,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1279.35,"endTime":1284.93,"body":"because the road noise will make"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1279.35,"endTime":1284.93,"body":"him nervous. And so you know, he"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1284.93,"endTime":1289.82,"body":"needs to sit in our lap. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1284.93,"endTime":1289.82,"body":"then he feels much better. Well,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1289.82,"endTime":1293.09,"body":"I mean, I can't I can't say how"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1289.82,"endTime":1293.09,"body":"much better he feels. But the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1293.09,"endTime":1296.51,"body":"fact that he continues to do it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1293.09,"endTime":1296.51,"body":"suggests to me that that is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1296.51,"endTime":1299.3,"body":"reinforcing for him. So that's,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1296.51,"endTime":1299.3,"body":"that's an example people have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1299.3,"endTime":1302.06,"body":"asked me what what does social"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1299.3,"endTime":1302.06,"body":"support look like, I mean, it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1302.06,"endTime":1304.43,"body":"that dog coming to you for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1302.06,"endTime":1304.43,"body":"comfort, and you being willing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1304.43,"endTime":1309.53,"body":"to give them comfort, play"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1304.43,"endTime":1309.53,"body":"possibly, you know, obviously,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1309.53,"endTime":1311.57,"body":"we have to be careful with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1309.53,"endTime":1311.57,"body":"plays, so that you're not trying"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1311.57,"endTime":1315.05,"body":"to force a dog that's really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1311.57,"endTime":1315.05,"body":"scared to play. But if the dog"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1315.05,"endTime":1318.5,"body":"is open to play that, in my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1315.05,"endTime":1318.5,"body":"opinion, that could count as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1318.5,"endTime":1322.34,"body":"social support, sometimes other"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1318.5,"endTime":1322.34,"body":"dogs to, you know, depending on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1323.21,"endTime":1326.12,"body":"how this dog feels about other"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1323.21,"endTime":1326.12,"body":"dogs, but those are kind of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1326.57,"endTime":1330.5,"body":"those are the big, the big ones"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1326.57,"endTime":1330.5,"body":"control predictability,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1330.53,"endTime":1334.97,"body":"exercise, enrichment, and social"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1330.53,"endTime":1334.97,"body":"support. And then those things"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1334.97,"endTime":1339.92,"body":"tend to combine to sort of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1334.97,"endTime":1339.92,"body":"influence flexibility. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1339.98,"endTime":1341.93,"body":"there's other things that go"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1339.98,"endTime":1341.93,"body":"into that, too."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1342.26,"endTime":1344.27,"body":"So many"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1342.26,"endTime":1344.27,"body":"important points to you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1344.27,"endTime":1347.18,"body":"especially the social support"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1344.27,"endTime":1347.18,"body":"aspect is perfect example of you"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1347.18,"endTime":1351.5,"body":"know, why it's okay to comfort a"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1347.18,"endTime":1351.5,"body":"dog that might be showing signs"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1351.5,"endTime":1355.94,"body":"of fear or anxiety or stress as"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1351.5,"endTime":1355.94,"body":"we're talking about. And then"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1356.0,"endTime":1358.85,"body":"the other really important"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1356.0,"endTime":1358.85,"body":"aspect to me, too, is the agency"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1358.85,"endTime":1362.3,"body":"or choice in the environment."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1358.85,"endTime":1362.3,"body":"And it's something I've actually"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1362.3,"endTime":1366.71,"body":"shifted to significantly more in"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1362.3,"endTime":1366.71,"body":"my setups over the years. So you"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1366.71,"endTime":1369.32,"body":"know, with aggression cases, of"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1366.71,"endTime":1369.32,"body":"course, you have to be safe, and"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1369.32,"endTime":1372.95,"body":"you want to make everybody safe."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1369.32,"endTime":1372.95,"body":"But that comes at a cost because"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1372.95,"endTime":1376.37,"body":"the more you know, restrictions"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1372.95,"endTime":1376.37,"body":"you put on an animal's movement"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1376.4,"endTime":1380.21,"body":"in the name of safety, the less"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1376.4,"endTime":1380.21,"body":"choices and agency they have in"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1380.21,"endTime":1382.58,"body":"their environment. So I've"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1380.21,"endTime":1382.58,"body":"actually created a whole"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1382.58,"endTime":1386.36,"body":"presentation on just staying"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1382.58,"endTime":1386.36,"body":"safe and aggression cases, while"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1386.36,"endTime":1389.33,"body":"giving that dog the most"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1386.36,"endTime":1389.33,"body":"opportunity for freedom of"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1389.33,"endTime":1392.57,"body":"movement, freedom of choice, so"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1389.33,"endTime":1392.57,"body":"that they can, so we can do"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1392.57,"endTime":1395.36,"body":"couple things there too, is that"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1392.57,"endTime":1395.36,"body":"we are giving them more flight"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1395.36,"endTime":1399.14,"body":"options, more choice, but we can"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1395.36,"endTime":1399.14,"body":"reinforce many other alternative"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1399.14,"endTime":1402.65,"body":"are other behaviors, and not"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1399.14,"endTime":1402.65,"body":"necessarily focus on just one"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1402.65,"endTime":1406.55,"body":"particular behavior. That is"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1402.65,"endTime":1406.55,"body":"desirable. So when we talk about"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1406.55,"endTime":1410.24,"body":"its Differential Reinforcement"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1406.55,"endTime":1410.24,"body":"procedures, definitely der Rohe"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1410.24,"endTime":1412.88,"body":"is something I've shifted more"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1410.24,"endTime":1412.88,"body":"much more than, like, for"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1412.88,"endTime":1416.54,"body":"instance, the DRI, so getting"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1412.88,"endTime":1416.54,"body":"geeky there but the you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1416.54,"endTime":1419.75,"body":"getting basically saying you can"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1416.54,"endTime":1419.75,"body":"go do whatever you else you"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1419.75,"endTime":1424.94,"body":"want, except bite me in the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1419.75,"endTime":1424.94,"body":"face. Rather than I just want"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1424.94,"endTime":1428.54,"body":"you to sit or one particular"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1424.94,"endTime":1428.54,"body":"behavior, because that doesn't"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1428.54,"endTime":1431.06,"body":"present a lot of choices and"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1428.54,"endTime":1431.06,"body":"also doesn't serve the function"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1431.06,"endTime":1434.09,"body":"of the behavior a lot of times"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1431.06,"endTime":1434.09,"body":"So, yeah, it's it's definitely,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1434.51,"endTime":1436.79,"body":"you know, all these things that"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1434.51,"endTime":1436.79,"body":"I think about it and the way"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1436.79,"endTime":1439.31,"body":"you're talking about them. So"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1436.79,"endTime":1439.31,"body":"you're gonna say something else?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1439.67,"endTime":1443.54,"body":"Yeah, well, and I don't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1439.67,"endTime":1443.54,"body":"know, I don't work. I work with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1443.54,"endTime":1447.71,"body":"leash reactivity. I stopped"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1443.54,"endTime":1447.71,"body":"working with all forms of what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1447.71,"endTime":1449.99,"body":"certain forms of aggression a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1447.71,"endTime":1449.99,"body":"couple years ago because I just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1449.99,"endTime":1453.44,"body":"wanted to specialize in certain"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1449.99,"endTime":1453.44,"body":"things. But the other area, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1453.44,"endTime":1456.98,"body":"other one of the other ways that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1453.44,"endTime":1456.98,"body":"I utilize control a lot in terms"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1456.98,"endTime":1460.46,"body":"of being able to give the dog"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1456.98,"endTime":1460.46,"body":"more control and more agency."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1460.79,"endTime":1463.58,"body":"And by the way, the difference"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1460.79,"endTime":1463.58,"body":"between control and agency,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1463.7,"endTime":1467.45,"body":"usually, the way I tend to see"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1463.7,"endTime":1467.45,"body":"it defined in the literature is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1467.45,"endTime":1470.66,"body":"that agency has to do more with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1467.45,"endTime":1470.66,"body":"the perception of control, which"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1470.66,"endTime":1475.61,"body":"is actually that's the important"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1470.66,"endTime":1475.61,"body":"thing. And then control is the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1475.61,"endTime":1478.37,"body":"objective measure of how much"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1475.61,"endTime":1478.37,"body":"control do you actually have. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1478.37,"endTime":1480.95,"body":"you can have an animal that has"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1478.37,"endTime":1480.95,"body":"control but doesn't perceive"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1480.95,"endTime":1483.86,"body":"control, that's going to be more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1480.95,"endTime":1483.86,"body":"stressful. It almost doesn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1483.89,"endTime":1486.32,"body":"matter how much control they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1483.89,"endTime":1486.32,"body":"actually have. What really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1486.32,"endTime":1491.03,"body":"matters is how much control they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1486.32,"endTime":1491.03,"body":"perceive themselves to have. For"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1491.42,"endTime":1494.63,"body":"one thing that I utilize a lot"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1491.42,"endTime":1494.63,"body":"for fearful dogs that I think is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1494.63,"endTime":1497.45,"body":"really important for managing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1494.63,"endTime":1497.45,"body":"stress is doing a lot of shaping"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1497.45,"endTime":1501.5,"body":"work with them. And I have And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1497.45,"endTime":1501.5,"body":"this may be I'm curious if you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1501.5,"endTime":1504.02,"body":"do this as well, because this is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1501.5,"endTime":1504.02,"body":"something I have really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1504.02,"endTime":1508.76,"body":"transitioned to naturally over"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1504.02,"endTime":1508.76,"body":"the years is much more shaping"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1508.76,"endTime":1512.12,"body":"and my training, you know, it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1508.76,"endTime":1512.12,"body":"was never forced based but I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1512.12,"endTime":1518.45,"body":"would lower a lot more. And and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1512.12,"endTime":1518.45,"body":"now I do a lot more shaping be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1518.54,"endTime":1522.98,"body":"cars have that additional"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1518.54,"endTime":1522.98,"body":"control that the animal has an I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1522.98,"endTime":1526.07,"body":"actually find it's faster, but I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1522.98,"endTime":1526.07,"body":"think it has these other"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1526.07,"endTime":1530.06,"body":"benefits as well. And I don't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1526.07,"endTime":1530.06,"body":"know, I don't know how much you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1530.06,"endTime":1532.58,"body":"use shaping in terms of working"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1530.06,"endTime":1532.58,"body":"with aggressive dogs, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1532.73,"endTime":1535.46,"body":"certainly for fearful dogs. It's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1532.73,"endTime":1535.46,"body":"huge"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1535.49,"endTime":1538.4,"body":"die 100%"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1535.49,"endTime":1538.4,"body":"agree because the aspect of"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1538.4,"endTime":1541.76,"body":"learning and can be, you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1538.4,"endTime":1541.76,"body":"so I want to make that"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1541.76,"endTime":1544.61,"body":"distinction to for the listeners"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1541.76,"endTime":1544.61,"body":"is that yes, you know, happy go"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1544.61,"endTime":1547.31,"body":"lucky dog. There's not we're not"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1544.61,"endTime":1547.31,"body":"worried about underlying, you"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1547.31,"endTime":1549.89,"body":"know, emotions impacting the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1547.31,"endTime":1549.89,"body":"behavior or significant"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1549.89,"endTime":1552.65,"body":"stressors, I'm not worried about"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1549.89,"endTime":1552.65,"body":"learning. So learn can work"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1552.65,"endTime":1556.43,"body":"perfectly fine for many excuse."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1552.65,"endTime":1556.43,"body":"You run a lot of risk with dogs"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1556.43,"endTime":1558.92,"body":"that are fearful, especially"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1556.43,"endTime":1558.92,"body":"with alert joining them into a"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1560.06,"endTime":1562.58,"body":"an event in which our"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1560.06,"endTime":1562.58,"body":"arrangement in which they're"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1562.58,"endTime":1566.39,"body":"going to not be happy about. And"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1562.58,"endTime":1566.39,"body":"that can obviously impact the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1566.39,"endTime":1569.63,"body":"behavior. So yes, giving again,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1566.39,"endTime":1569.63,"body":"going back to shaping is giving"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1569.63,"endTime":1573.29,"body":"the dog more choice on what"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1569.63,"endTime":1573.29,"body":"they're doing. So you've already"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1573.65,"endTime":1577.01,"body":"done some great defining of"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1573.65,"endTime":1577.01,"body":"terms already some of these"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1577.01,"endTime":1580.31,"body":"buzzwords in the dog training"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1577.01,"endTime":1580.31,"body":"community, we've defined stress,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1580.58,"endTime":1585.35,"body":"and choice and agency, which you"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1580.58,"endTime":1585.35,"body":"did really well there. So I'd"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1585.35,"endTime":1589.76,"body":"love to jump into the topic of"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1585.35,"endTime":1589.76,"body":"emotions next in defining that"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1589.76,"endTime":1592.49,"body":"term. But before we do that,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1589.76,"endTime":1592.49,"body":"we're gonna take a short break"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1592.52,"endTime":1598.94,"body":"here, word from our sponsor, and"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1592.52,"endTime":1598.94,"body":"we'll be right back. Hey,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1598.94,"endTime":1601.55,"body":"friends, it's me again. And I"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1598.94,"endTime":1601.55,"body":"hope you are enjoying this"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1601.55,"endTime":1604.97,"body":"episode, you may have figured"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1601.55,"endTime":1604.97,"body":"out that something I deeply care"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1604.97,"endTime":1607.76,"body":"about is helping dogs with"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1604.97,"endTime":1607.76,"body":"aggression issues live less"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1607.76,"endTime":1612.05,"body":"stressful, less confined, more"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1607.76,"endTime":1612.05,"body":"enriched, and overall happy"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1612.05,"endTime":1615.05,"body":"lives with their guardians."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1612.05,"endTime":1615.05,"body":"Aggression is so often"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1615.05,"endTime":1617.45,"body":"misunderstood. And we can change"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1615.05,"endTime":1617.45,"body":"that through continued"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1617.45,"endTime":1620.87,"body":"education, like we received from"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1617.45,"endTime":1620.87,"body":"so many of the wonderful guests"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1620.87,"endTime":1624.17,"body":"on this podcast. In addition to"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1620.87,"endTime":1624.17,"body":"the podcast, I have two other"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1624.17,"endTime":1626.93,"body":"opportunities for anyone looking"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1624.17,"endTime":1626.93,"body":"to learn more about helping dogs"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1626.93,"endTime":1629.48,"body":"with aggression issues, which"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1626.93,"endTime":1629.48,"body":"include the aggression in dogs"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1629.48,"endTime":1632.33,"body":"master course, and the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1629.48,"endTime":1632.33,"body":"aggression in dogs conference."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1632.72,"endTime":1635.42,"body":"If you want to learn more about"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1632.72,"endTime":1635.42,"body":"the most comprehensive course on"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1635.42,"endTime":1638.0,"body":"aggression taught anywhere in"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1635.42,"endTime":1638.0,"body":"the world, head on over to"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1638.0,"endTime":1642.11,"body":"aggressive dog.com and click on"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1638.0,"endTime":1642.11,"body":"the dog pros tab, and then the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1642.11,"endTime":1646.01,"body":"master course, the course gives"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1642.11,"endTime":1646.01,"body":"you access to 23 modules on"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1646.01,"endTime":1649.73,"body":"everything from assessment to"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1646.01,"endTime":1649.73,"body":"safety, to medical issues to the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1649.73,"endTime":1652.64,"body":"behavior change plans we often"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1649.73,"endTime":1652.64,"body":"use in a number of different"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1652.64,"endTime":1656.9,"body":"cases, including lessons taught"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1652.64,"endTime":1656.9,"body":"by Dr. Chris pockle, Kim Brophy"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1657.02,"endTime":1660.29,"body":"and Jessica Dolce, you also"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1657.02,"endTime":1660.29,"body":"receive access to a private"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1660.29,"endTime":1663.86,"body":"Facebook group with over 1000 of"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1660.29,"endTime":1663.86,"body":"your fellow colleagues, and dog"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1663.86,"endTime":1667.13,"body":"pros all working with aggression"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1663.86,"endTime":1667.13,"body":"cases. After you finish the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1667.13,"endTime":1671.3,"body":"course, you also gain access to"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1667.13,"endTime":1671.3,"body":"private live group mentor"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1671.3,"endTime":1674.03,"body":"sessions with me, where we"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1671.3,"endTime":1674.03,"body":"practice working through a"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1674.03,"endTime":1677.63,"body":"variety of cases together. And"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1674.03,"endTime":1677.63,"body":"if you need to use we've got you"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1677.63,"endTime":1681.02,"body":"covered. We are approved for"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1677.63,"endTime":1681.02,"body":"just about every major training"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1681.02,"endTime":1683.75,"body":"and behavior credential out"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1681.02,"endTime":1683.75,"body":"there. This is truly the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1683.75,"endTime":1686.42,"body":"flagship course offered on"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1683.75,"endTime":1686.42,"body":"aggression in dogs, and is"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1686.42,"endTime":1689.84,"body":"perfect for pet pros that want"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1686.42,"endTime":1689.84,"body":"to set themselves apart and take"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1689.84,"endTime":1692.93,"body":"their knowledge and expertise to"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1689.84,"endTime":1692.93,"body":"the next level or even for pet"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1692.93,"endTime":1695.09,"body":"owners who are seeking"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1692.93,"endTime":1695.09,"body":"information to help their own"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1695.09,"endTime":1698.6,"body":"dog. And don't forget to join me"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1695.09,"endTime":1698.6,"body":"for the third annual aggression"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1698.6,"endTime":1701.9,"body":"and dogs conference either in"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1698.6,"endTime":1701.9,"body":"person or online from"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1701.9,"endTime":1704.69,"body":"Providence, Rhode Island on"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1701.9,"endTime":1704.69,"body":"September 30 Through October"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1704.69,"endTime":1708.53,"body":"2 2022. This year's lineup"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1704.69,"endTime":1708.53,"body":"includes many of the amazing"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1708.53,"endTime":1711.02,"body":"guests you might have heard on"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1708.53,"endTime":1711.02,"body":"the podcast including Suzanne"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1711.02,"endTime":1715.85,"body":"Cole the air, Jen triack, Simone"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1711.02,"endTime":1715.85,"body":"Mueller, Dr. Amber Batson Kim"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1715.85,"endTime":1719.96,"body":"Brophy charisma noir, Laura"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1715.85,"endTime":1719.96,"body":"monocle. tirelli, Dr. Simone"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1719.96,"endTime":1723.71,"body":"Gadbois, and many more, head on"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1719.96,"endTime":1723.71,"body":"over to aggressive dog.com and"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1723.71,"endTime":1726.77,"body":"click on the conference tab to"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1723.71,"endTime":1726.77,"body":"learn more about the exciting"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1726.77,"endTime":1729.38,"body":"agenda on everything from"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1726.77,"endTime":1729.38,"body":"advanced concepts and leash"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1729.38,"endTime":1732.59,"body":"reactivity to using positive"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1729.38,"endTime":1732.59,"body":"reinforcement to work with"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1732.59,"endTime":1736.46,"body":"predatory behavior. And if you"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1732.59,"endTime":1736.46,"body":"like to show up your support of"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1736.46,"endTime":1739.58,"body":"the podcast this year, we teamed"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1736.46,"endTime":1739.58,"body":"up again with the folks over at"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1739.61,"endTime":1743.09,"body":"Wolf culture for some catchy"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1739.61,"endTime":1743.09,"body":"limited run conference"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1743.09,"endTime":1747.08,"body":"merchandise. Wolf culture is"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1743.09,"endTime":1747.08,"body":"known for their witty, nerdy and"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1747.08,"endTime":1751.13,"body":"no nonsense apparel that was"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1747.08,"endTime":1751.13,"body":"created in 2019. To spread more"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1751.13,"endTime":1754.73,"body":"awareness towards the use of"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1751.13,"endTime":1754.73,"body":"humane training methods. Their"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1754.73,"endTime":1758.33,"body":"apparel is here to help you"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1754.73,"endTime":1758.33,"body":"start conversations, advocate"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1758.33,"endTime":1761.6,"body":"for your animals and rep force"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1758.33,"endTime":1761.6,"body":"retraining in a different way."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1761.84,"endTime":1764.6,"body":"So don't forget to get your"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1761.84,"endTime":1764.6,"body":"conference gear. It leaves the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1764.6,"endTime":1771.11,"body":"site after 1231 2022 If you want"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1764.6,"endTime":1771.11,"body":"10% off your order, use the code"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1771.23,"endTime":1775.73,"body":"bitey 10. At checkout that's bi"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1771.23,"endTime":1775.73,"body":"t y one zero."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1781.31,"endTime":1784.04,"body":"All right, guys, I'm back here"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1781.31,"endTime":1784.04,"body":"with the amazing Dr. Kristina"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1784.04,"endTime":1787.85,"body":"Spalding. We are talking about"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1784.04,"endTime":1787.85,"body":"all kinds of geeky things. Today"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1787.85,"endTime":1791.96,"body":"we're talking about stress and"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1787.85,"endTime":1791.96,"body":"agency and choice and now I'd"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1791.96,"endTime":1795.38,"body":"love to jump into emotions"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1791.96,"endTime":1795.38,"body":"because that's another hot topic"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1795.38,"endTime":1798.35,"body":"I think and understanding since"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1795.38,"endTime":1798.35,"body":"we're kind of concentrating on"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1798.35,"endTime":1801.38,"body":"what's happening inside the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1798.35,"endTime":1801.38,"body":"door. Dog in these cases and"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1801.38,"endTime":1804.83,"body":"behavior as well as aggression"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1801.38,"endTime":1804.83,"body":"cases, emotions, of course, are"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1804.83,"endTime":1809.06,"body":"very important. So let's define"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1804.83,"endTime":1809.06,"body":"that first. Because in my"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1809.09,"endTime":1813.14,"body":"research, my limited research on"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1809.09,"endTime":1813.14,"body":"you know, I've, you have a lot"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1813.14,"endTime":1817.25,"body":"of human models for emotions and"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1813.14,"endTime":1817.25,"body":"categorizing emotions, but even"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1817.25,"endTime":1819.41,"body":"there, they're all over the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1817.25,"endTime":1819.41,"body":"place. I mean, there's it"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1819.41,"endTime":1821.54,"body":"depends on who you're looking"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1819.41,"endTime":1821.54,"body":"at, or who you're talking to."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1821.81,"endTime":1825.23,"body":"And certainly with animal"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1821.81,"endTime":1825.23,"body":"emotions, it's not as well"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1825.23,"endTime":1828.41,"body":"researched as the human"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1825.23,"endTime":1828.41,"body":"emotions, of course, but so I'd"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1828.41,"endTime":1831.02,"body":"love to hear it get your take on"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1828.41,"endTime":1831.02,"body":"how would you define emotion?"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1831.02,"endTime":1835.16,"body":"And which model would you kind"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1831.02,"endTime":1835.16,"body":"of lean towards if you were to,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1835.28,"endTime":1836.51,"body":"to lean towards any model?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1837.14,"endTime":1839.87,"body":"Yeah, so I'll start"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1837.14,"endTime":1839.87,"body":"with defining emotion, that's a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1839.87,"endTime":1843.8,"body":"lot easier. And then we can talk"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1839.87,"endTime":1843.8,"body":"a little bit about the models."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1844.25,"endTime":1847.67,"body":"So I think emotion is really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1844.25,"endTime":1847.67,"body":"interesting, because I think a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1847.67,"endTime":1851.27,"body":"lot of people aren't familiar"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1847.67,"endTime":1851.27,"body":"with how emotion is actually"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1851.27,"endTime":1856.61,"body":"defined. So many people think of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1851.27,"endTime":1856.61,"body":"emotion as the feelings like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1856.79,"endTime":1861.17,"body":"being sad as an emotion, being"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1856.79,"endTime":1861.17,"body":"angry as an emotion. That's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1861.17,"endTime":1866.03,"body":"actually not the full picture of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1861.17,"endTime":1866.03,"body":"emotion, though. Motion, I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1866.03,"endTime":1867.95,"body":"going to talk about what emotion"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1866.03,"endTime":1867.95,"body":"is. And then I want to talk a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1867.95,"endTime":1870.29,"body":"little bit about what the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1867.95,"endTime":1870.29,"body":"function is because I think it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1870.29,"endTime":1873.56,"body":"hard to fully understand what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1870.29,"endTime":1873.56,"body":"emotion is without understanding"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1873.56,"endTime":1876.26,"body":"the function of it, or what we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1873.56,"endTime":1876.26,"body":"believe to be the function of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1876.26,"endTime":1881.84,"body":"it. Emotion is, it has three"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1876.26,"endTime":1881.84,"body":"components, maybe four,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1881.87,"endTime":1885.95,"body":"depending on who you're reading,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1881.87,"endTime":1885.95,"body":"but there's a behavioral aspect."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1886.13,"endTime":1890.6,"body":"So that's body language, facial"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1886.13,"endTime":1890.6,"body":"expression, you know, tone of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1890.6,"endTime":1893.99,"body":"voice or tone of vocalization,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1890.6,"endTime":1893.99,"body":"and we're talking about dogs,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1894.41,"endTime":1898.04,"body":"that's one, then you have the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1894.41,"endTime":1898.04,"body":"physiological component, which"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1898.04,"endTime":1901.67,"body":"is essentially the stress that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1898.04,"endTime":1901.67,"body":"we were talking about earlier."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1902.69,"endTime":1909.35,"body":"Maybe physiology varies from"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1902.69,"endTime":1909.35,"body":"emotion to emotion. But we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1909.35,"endTime":1913.16,"body":"really haven't been able to find"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1909.35,"endTime":1913.16,"body":"consistent or convincing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1913.19,"endTime":1917.63,"body":"evidence of that. And then you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1913.19,"endTime":1917.63,"body":"have the subjective component,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1917.63,"endTime":1921.56,"body":"which is the feelings. And then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1917.63,"endTime":1921.56,"body":"some researchers talk about a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1921.56,"endTime":1925.67,"body":"fourth component, which is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1921.56,"endTime":1925.67,"body":"cognition. So I think everyone"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1925.67,"endTime":1928.34,"body":"agrees that cognition plays an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1925.67,"endTime":1928.34,"body":"important role in emotion. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1928.34,"endTime":1930.98,"body":"whether or not they consider it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1928.34,"endTime":1930.98,"body":"a fourth component or not, seems"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1930.98,"endTime":1934.76,"body":"to vary. But definitely, body"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1930.98,"endTime":1934.76,"body":"language and behavior actually"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1934.76,"endTime":1938.45,"body":"should put those two things"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1934.76,"endTime":1938.45,"body":"together, physiology, and then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1938.45,"endTime":1940.73,"body":"the subjective experience, when"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1938.45,"endTime":1940.73,"body":"you"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1940.76,"endTime":1942.68,"body":"meant you"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1940.76,"endTime":1942.68,"body":"mentioned cognition, can you"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1942.68,"endTime":1945.14,"body":"give me an example of what what"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1942.68,"endTime":1945.14,"body":"you're talking about there, if"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":1945.14,"endTime":1945.47,"body":"you were"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1945.5,"endTime":1947.3,"body":"observing, yeah, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1945.5,"endTime":1947.3,"body":"this is one I have to do in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1947.3,"endTime":1950.27,"body":"human terms, because it's harder"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1947.3,"endTime":1950.27,"body":"to understand it, we just don't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1950.27,"endTime":1954.05,"body":"have a lot of understanding of,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1950.27,"endTime":1954.05,"body":"of how that works in animals or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1954.05,"endTime":1960.44,"body":"as much. But a perfect example"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1954.05,"endTime":1960.44,"body":"is, someone has an experience."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1960.92,"endTime":1964.16,"body":"And then they interpret it in a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1960.92,"endTime":1964.16,"body":"particular way. So you have an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1964.16,"endTime":1968.72,"body":"interaction with someone, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1964.16,"endTime":1968.72,"body":"you leave that interaction, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1968.72,"endTime":1971.96,"body":"you could think, Hey, I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1968.72,"endTime":1971.96,"body":"that went pretty well, I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1971.96,"endTime":1974.3,"body":"this person really liked me, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1971.96,"endTime":1974.3,"body":"maybe they're going to be a new"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1974.3,"endTime":1977.75,"body":"friend. And that is the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1974.3,"endTime":1977.75,"body":"cognitive aspect of it, and then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1977.75,"endTime":1981.44,"body":"you're going to maybe feel"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1977.75,"endTime":1981.44,"body":"happy, you could leave that same"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1981.44,"endTime":1986.33,"body":"interaction, and think I was so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1981.44,"endTime":1986.33,"body":"stupid, and I said, all these"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1986.33,"endTime":1990.11,"body":"terrible things, and I, they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1986.33,"endTime":1990.11,"body":"probably hate me, and you could"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1990.11,"endTime":1993.44,"body":"leave feeling very anxious. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1990.11,"endTime":1993.44,"body":"so that's the cognitive aspect."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1993.44,"endTime":2001.12,"body":"It's that cognitive appraisal of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1993.44,"endTime":2001.12,"body":"interpreting the situation. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2001.3,"endTime":2004.3,"body":"one of the things that they're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2001.3,"endTime":2004.3,"body":"starting to look at an animals"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2004.42,"endTime":2009.1,"body":"that has a little bit to do with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2004.42,"endTime":2009.1,"body":"cognition and emotion is do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2009.1,"endTime":2014.59,"body":"animals have an optimistic or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2009.1,"endTime":2014.59,"body":"pessimistic bias. So if they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2014.59,"endTime":2020.86,"body":"tend to have an optimistic bias,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2014.59,"endTime":2020.86,"body":"they anticipate reinforcement in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2020.86,"endTime":2025.48,"body":"the face of uncertainty. If they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2020.86,"endTime":2025.48,"body":"have a more pessimistic bias,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2025.54,"endTime":2028.57,"body":"they tend to anticipate"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2025.54,"endTime":2028.57,"body":"punishment in the face of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2028.57,"endTime":2033.4,"body":"uncertainty. That is a cognitive"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2028.57,"endTime":2033.4,"body":"bias. But from research in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2033.4,"endTime":2038.62,"body":"humans, we understand that that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2033.4,"endTime":2038.62,"body":"tends to be linked to mood. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2038.92,"endTime":2042.1,"body":"people that have a more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2038.92,"endTime":2042.1,"body":"optimistic bias tend to have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2042.1,"endTime":2045.94,"body":"more positive mood, and people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2042.1,"endTime":2045.94,"body":"who have a more negative bias or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2045.97,"endTime":2049.81,"body":"pessimistic bias tend to have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2045.97,"endTime":2049.81,"body":"more negative mood. Now, that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2049.81,"endTime":2053.71,"body":"not the whole story. But that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2049.81,"endTime":2053.71,"body":"sort of the the general idea."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2054.04,"endTime":2057.82,"body":"And so researchers are starting"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2054.04,"endTime":2057.82,"body":"to look at this in animals in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2057.82,"endTime":2064.42,"body":"terms of ways of assessing well"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2057.82,"endTime":2064.42,"body":"being is the assumption and this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2064.42,"endTime":2067.33,"body":"is I mean, it is somewhat backed"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2064.42,"endTime":2067.33,"body":"up by research, but I would say"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2067.33,"endTime":2070.24,"body":"at this point, it's still an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2067.33,"endTime":2070.24,"body":"assumption is that animals that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2070.24,"endTime":2072.58,"body":"are more pessimistic are also"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2070.24,"endTime":2072.58,"body":"going to tend to have more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2072.58,"endTime":2075.28,"body":"negative mood, more negative"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2072.58,"endTime":2075.28,"body":"emotions. So that's one way in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2075.28,"endTime":2078.19,"body":"animals that that cognitive"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2075.28,"endTime":2078.19,"body":"aspect comes into play."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2078.88,"endTime":2081.52,"body":"Okay, so I'm"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2078.88,"endTime":2081.52,"body":"gonna unpack this a little"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2081.52,"endTime":2084.37,"body":"further before asking you which"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2081.52,"endTime":2084.37,"body":"model that you lean towards."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2084.37,"endTime":2087.94,"body":"Yeah. So in terms of the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2084.37,"endTime":2087.94,"body":"measurement, again, where you"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2087.97,"endTime":2091.48,"body":"use that question a lot, and"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2087.97,"endTime":2091.48,"body":"this is how do we measure these"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2091.48,"endTime":2093.49,"body":"things? And you had mentioned"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2091.48,"endTime":2093.49,"body":"the behavior which we can"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2093.49,"endTime":2096.73,"body":"observe, when you see when you"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2093.49,"endTime":2096.73,"body":"talk about the physiological or"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2096.73,"endTime":2100.27,"body":"maybe the behavior, do you look"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2096.73,"endTime":2100.27,"body":"at intensity as well? to like"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2100.27,"endTime":2102.7,"body":"the intensity of the behaviors"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2100.27,"endTime":2102.7,"body":"when we're using that as a"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2102.7,"endTime":2103.45,"body":"measure of him?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2103.45,"endTime":2108.4,"body":"Yes. So a lot of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2103.45,"endTime":2108.4,"body":"researchers add, there's sort of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2108.64,"endTime":2113.02,"body":"two dimensions. So one dimension"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2108.64,"endTime":2113.02,"body":"is the valence that again, is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2113.02,"endTime":2116.05,"body":"the flavor, I call it the, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2113.02,"endTime":2116.05,"body":"know, is it positive or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2116.05,"endTime":2121.48,"body":"negative? And then the other"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2116.05,"endTime":2121.48,"body":"dimension is arousal. And that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2121.48,"endTime":2125.71,"body":"the physiological arousal,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2121.48,"endTime":2125.71,"body":"arousal component. And how"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2125.71,"endTime":2130.51,"body":"intense is that emotion? So are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2125.71,"endTime":2130.51,"body":"you feeling just mildly anxious,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2130.51,"endTime":2133.45,"body":"or are you feeling extremely"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2130.51,"endTime":2133.45,"body":"anxious to the point of panic,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2133.45,"endTime":2137.29,"body":"and then anything in between,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2133.45,"endTime":2137.29,"body":"and so that, that is another"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2137.29,"endTime":2140.08,"body":"component of emotion. And then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2137.29,"endTime":2140.08,"body":"you also have a distinction"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2140.08,"endTime":2144.88,"body":"between emotions, which are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2140.08,"endTime":2144.88,"body":"short term, they're really quite"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2144.91,"endTime":2151.6,"body":"brief, and mood, which lasts"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2144.91,"endTime":2151.6,"body":"much longer. And so and just I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2151.6,"endTime":2153.91,"body":"want to get back because I said"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2151.6,"endTime":2153.91,"body":"I was gonna mention it before is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2153.91,"endTime":2158.32,"body":"the function, what we believe"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2153.91,"endTime":2158.32,"body":"the function of emotion is, is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2158.32,"endTime":2162.61,"body":"to motivate behavior. And to me,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2158.32,"endTime":2162.61,"body":"this makes, I think, emotions"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2162.61,"endTime":2167.65,"body":"really interesting anyway. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2162.61,"endTime":2167.65,"body":"if you keep that function in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2167.65,"endTime":2170.62,"body":"mind, I think that makes it much"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2167.65,"endTime":2170.62,"body":"more interesting from a behavior"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2170.62,"endTime":2176.35,"body":"change perspective is because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2170.62,"endTime":2176.35,"body":"it's hard to effectively change"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2176.35,"endTime":2180.07,"body":"behavior, particularly in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2176.35,"endTime":2180.07,"body":"complex cases, without"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2180.07,"endTime":2182.95,"body":"understanding the role that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2180.07,"endTime":2182.95,"body":"emotion is playing. Because the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2182.95,"endTime":2185.62,"body":"purpose of the whole purpose of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2182.95,"endTime":2185.62,"body":"emotion is to motivate behavior."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2185.77,"endTime":2189.16,"body":"So if the emotion is driving the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2185.77,"endTime":2189.16,"body":"behavior, and we're not dealing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2189.16,"endTime":2192.52,"body":"with the emotion, it's going to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2189.16,"endTime":2192.52,"body":"be very difficult to get real"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2192.52,"endTime":2194.23,"body":"and lasting behavior change."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2195.07,"endTime":2198.04,"body":"And you guys"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2195.07,"endTime":2198.04,"body":"can't see me on the recording,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2198.04,"endTime":2201.97,"body":"but I am clapping out loud here"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2198.04,"endTime":2201.97,"body":"because I 100% agree with us. So"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2201.97,"endTime":2205.06,"body":"so important in our aggression"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2201.97,"endTime":2205.06,"body":"cases, or any any behavior cases"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2205.06,"endTime":2207.55,"body":"where again, the emotion is"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2205.06,"endTime":2207.55,"body":"driving that behavior, as you"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2207.55,"endTime":2210.85,"body":"mentioned. And so let's use an"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2207.55,"endTime":2210.85,"body":"example here of before you give"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2210.85,"endTime":2214.03,"body":"me again, the model that you"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2210.85,"endTime":2214.03,"body":"would lean towards, it's the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2214.12,"endTime":2217.12,"body":"let's say, we have a dog on"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2214.12,"endTime":2217.12,"body":"leash barking and lunging at"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2217.12,"endTime":2220.99,"body":"other dogs. So from the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2217.12,"endTime":2220.99,"body":"behavioral aspect, we might see,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2221.17,"endTime":2223.51,"body":"like the behaviors we can"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2221.17,"endTime":2223.51,"body":"recognize barking, lunging,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2223.51,"endTime":2227.8,"body":"growling, let's say body"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2223.51,"endTime":2227.8,"body":"language would also indicate"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2227.8,"endTime":2232.45,"body":"ears, flats, pulled back lip"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2227.8,"endTime":2232.45,"body":"retraction, you know, the dog"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2232.45,"endTime":2237.19,"body":"darting away, tail tucked. So we"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2232.45,"endTime":2237.19,"body":"can we can reasonably assign"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2237.19,"endTime":2239.8,"body":"fear as the emotion there. But"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2237.19,"endTime":2239.8,"body":"then we could add in other"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2239.8,"endTime":2242.08,"body":"measures the physiological"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2239.8,"endTime":2242.08,"body":"you're talking about. So we"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2242.08,"endTime":2246.28,"body":"might see maybe an elevated"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2242.08,"endTime":2246.28,"body":"heart rate, pillow erection, for"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2246.28,"endTime":2249.34,"body":"instance, things that the dog"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2246.28,"endTime":2249.34,"body":"aren't necessarily controlling"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2249.34,"endTime":2252.7,"body":"from a operant state. Or I"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2249.34,"endTime":2252.7,"body":"should say, it's more just"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2252.7,"endTime":2255.94,"body":"physiological signs, like you"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2252.7,"endTime":2255.94,"body":"mentioned, the stress. The"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2255.94,"endTime":2258.67,"body":"subjective aspect, though, of"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2255.94,"endTime":2258.67,"body":"course, we can't ask the dogs"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2258.67,"endTime":2262.6,"body":"how they're feeling, right. And"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2258.67,"endTime":2262.6,"body":"so that's the one part that can"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2262.6,"endTime":2266.08,"body":"be a little difficult to"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2262.6,"endTime":2266.08,"body":"measure. So am I kind of getting"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2266.17,"endTime":2269.95,"body":"along the lines of being"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2266.17,"endTime":2269.95,"body":"accurate? And how I would assess"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2269.98,"endTime":2272.47,"body":"an emotion without asking the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2269.98,"endTime":2272.47,"body":"dog actually how they're"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2272.47,"endTime":2272.89,"body":"feeling?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2274.57,"endTime":2278.56,"body":"Yeah, I mean, that is,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2274.57,"endTime":2278.56,"body":"that's a really good starting"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2278.56,"endTime":2283.87,"body":"point. And that's often one of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2278.56,"endTime":2283.87,"body":"the only routes we have, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2283.87,"endTime":2286.39,"body":"it's really hard, it's really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2283.87,"endTime":2286.39,"body":"hard to accurately assess"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2286.39,"endTime":2290.83,"body":"emotion. And sometimes in these"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2286.39,"endTime":2290.83,"body":"reactive dogs, leash reactive"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2290.83,"endTime":2295.33,"body":"dogs. I don't know, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2290.83,"endTime":2295.33,"body":"sometimes I just cannot tell"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2295.51,"endTime":2298.93,"body":"until you get that arousal level"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2295.51,"endTime":2298.93,"body":"down. And then you start seeing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2298.93,"endTime":2301.93,"body":"how they're responding when when"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2298.93,"endTime":2301.93,"body":"that arousal level is less than"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2301.93,"endTime":2305.11,"body":"tense, because think that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2301.93,"endTime":2305.11,"body":"sometimes the level of arousal"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2305.11,"endTime":2308.26,"body":"can kind of muddy things up in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2305.11,"endTime":2308.26,"body":"terms of interpreting behavior"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2308.26,"endTime":2313.18,"body":"and body language. But it is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2308.26,"endTime":2313.18,"body":"really hard to get at. One other"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2313.18,"endTime":2320.59,"body":"way of thinking about it is, at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2313.18,"endTime":2320.59,"body":"least in terms of the valence of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2320.59,"endTime":2325.54,"body":"emotion, is that negatively"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2320.59,"endTime":2325.54,"body":"valence emotions are punishers,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2325.54,"endTime":2328.3,"body":"they serve as punishers. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2325.54,"endTime":2328.3,"body":"positively balanced emotions"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2328.3,"endTime":2334.21,"body":"serve as reinforcers. So if a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2328.3,"endTime":2334.21,"body":"dog is approaching a particular"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2334.21,"endTime":2339.43,"body":"stimulus, although this can get"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2334.21,"endTime":2339.43,"body":"a little tricky, but in many"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2339.43,"endTime":2345.01,"body":"cases, that can indicate that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2339.43,"endTime":2345.01,"body":"there's a more positively"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2345.01,"endTime":2348.22,"body":"valence emotion at play. Whereas"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2345.01,"endTime":2348.22,"body":"if they're avoiding the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2348.22,"endTime":2351.16,"body":"stimulus, and then there's a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2348.22,"endTime":2351.16,"body":"more negatively valence emotion"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2351.16,"endTime":2355.39,"body":"in play, of course, the problem"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2351.16,"endTime":2355.39,"body":"that you get is those dogs that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2355.42,"endTime":2358.96,"body":"are displaying aggressive"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2355.42,"endTime":2358.96,"body":"behavior and approaching and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2358.96,"endTime":2363.04,"body":"that can get very difficult to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2358.96,"endTime":2363.04,"body":"determine and again, just, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2363.04,"endTime":2366.16,"body":"know, in reactive dogs is, is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2363.04,"endTime":2366.16,"body":"the dog barking, lunging because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2366.16,"endTime":2370.39,"body":"it wants to go play? Or is it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2366.16,"endTime":2370.39,"body":"barking and lunging because it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2370.39,"endTime":2375.7,"body":"is fearful or some other reason?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2370.39,"endTime":2375.7,"body":"Either way, they're approaching"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2375.7,"endTime":2380.47,"body":"that other dog. So that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2375.7,"endTime":2380.47,"body":"perspective can be helpful, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2380.47,"endTime":2384.07,"body":"you should certainly never rely"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2380.47,"endTime":2384.07,"body":"on just that as a way to assess"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2384.07,"endTime":2387.79,"body":"the motion because there's a lot"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2384.07,"endTime":2387.79,"body":"of different things going on."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2388.33,"endTime":2392.14,"body":"And it's hard. It's hard to get"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2388.33,"endTime":2392.14,"body":"at a motion. If you're in a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2392.14,"endTime":2397.36,"body":"research setting. It's a little"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2392.14,"endTime":2397.36,"body":"bit easier because you can do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2397.36,"endTime":2402.13,"body":"things like to assess optimism"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2397.36,"endTime":2402.13,"body":"and pessimism, you can go in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2402.13,"endTime":2406.09,"body":"there, and you can test that in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2402.13,"endTime":2406.09,"body":"a research facility. But we're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2406.09,"endTime":2409.15,"body":"not. I mean, that's not what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2406.09,"endTime":2409.15,"body":"we're doing, we don't have the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2409.15,"endTime":2413.29,"body":"ability to do that kind of thing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2409.15,"endTime":2413.29,"body":"in most cases. And so it in many"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2413.29,"endTime":2416.68,"body":"ways, it is still a black box,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2413.29,"endTime":2416.68,"body":"and we're not always able to get"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2416.68,"endTime":2423.16,"body":"at it, I think what we can get"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2416.68,"endTime":2423.16,"body":"at is a arousal level that we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2423.16,"endTime":2430.81,"body":"can see and measure much more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2423.16,"endTime":2430.81,"body":"accurately. And in my opinion, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2430.81,"endTime":2437.11,"body":"think a arousal is almost more a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2430.81,"endTime":2437.11,"body":"more important factor than the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2437.11,"endTime":2441.7,"body":"valence of the emotion. And so I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2437.11,"endTime":2441.7,"body":"can use my dog as an example. I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2441.7,"endTime":2445.3,"body":"have an Australian Shepherd,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2441.7,"endTime":2445.3,"body":"he's probably, I mean, he's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2445.3,"endTime":2448.66,"body":"probably in like the top five of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2445.3,"endTime":2448.66,"body":"any dog I've ever known in terms"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2448.66,"endTime":2451.57,"body":"of his arousal level, they are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2448.66,"endTime":2451.57,"body":"through the roof really, really,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2451.57,"endTime":2456.67,"body":"really high. And he does have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2451.57,"endTime":2456.67,"body":"some aggression issues. But I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2456.67,"endTime":2459.88,"body":"think for the most part, he"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2456.67,"endTime":2459.88,"body":"really likes other people and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2459.88,"endTime":2465.04,"body":"dogs. And for the most part, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2459.88,"endTime":2465.04,"body":"don't let him greet, not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2465.04,"endTime":2469.06,"body":"strangers, not like kids, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2465.04,"endTime":2469.06,"body":"know, he has, he has a fairly"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2469.06,"endTime":2473.92,"body":"wide social circle. But I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2469.06,"endTime":2473.92,"body":"believe that he is having"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2473.92,"endTime":2476.83,"body":"positively valence emotions, for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2473.92,"endTime":2476.83,"body":"the most part, there might be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2476.83,"endTime":2481.18,"body":"some mixed emotions in there."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2476.83,"endTime":2481.18,"body":"But he becomes so highly aroused"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2481.18,"endTime":2485.32,"body":"that I think he's not safe, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2481.18,"endTime":2485.32,"body":"know, Hill, he jumps and he"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2485.32,"endTime":2488.23,"body":"barks, his favorite way of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2485.32,"endTime":2488.23,"body":"greeting people when he is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2488.23,"endTime":2492.1,"body":"really highly aroused, is to he"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2488.23,"endTime":2492.1,"body":"smiles. So he bears his teeth,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2492.1,"endTime":2494.77,"body":"which is a problem for someone"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2492.1,"endTime":2494.77,"body":"that doesn't really understand"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2494.77,"endTime":2498.64,"body":"dog behavior. And then he likes"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2494.77,"endTime":2498.64,"body":"to leap up and bark and snap on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2498.64,"endTime":2502.84,"body":"their face, right. So I don't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2498.64,"endTime":2502.84,"body":"believe that there's any"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2502.84,"endTime":2508.42,"body":"intentionality there to hurt"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2502.84,"endTime":2508.42,"body":"somebody. And I think that is a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2508.42,"endTime":2513.73,"body":"very high risk situation. And so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2508.42,"endTime":2513.73,"body":"we were very, very careful about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2513.73,"endTime":2516.55,"body":"how and who we introduced him"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2513.73,"endTime":2516.55,"body":"to. And so I think that's a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2516.55,"endTime":2521.74,"body":"great example of how, in many"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2516.55,"endTime":2521.74,"body":"ways, not in all cases, because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2521.74,"endTime":2524.32,"body":"it's going to depend on the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2521.74,"endTime":2524.32,"body":"specifics. But I think in many"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2524.32,"endTime":2529.39,"body":"cases, focusing on arousal"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2524.32,"endTime":2529.39,"body":"levels, at least is the first"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2529.39,"endTime":2533.41,"body":"thing to do. And then if we can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2529.39,"endTime":2533.41,"body":"get the arousal levels down,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2533.41,"endTime":2537.22,"body":"because remember, a arousal is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2533.41,"endTime":2537.22,"body":"connected to stress. And when"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2537.22,"endTime":2539.53,"body":"animals are in high states of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2537.22,"endTime":2539.53,"body":"stress, it's very difficult to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2539.53,"endTime":2543.37,"body":"change behavior, then we can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2539.53,"endTime":2543.37,"body":"start worrying more about the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2543.37,"endTime":2546.85,"body":"valence, and a lot of that goes"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2543.37,"endTime":2546.85,"body":"hand in hand. Like, if you're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2546.85,"endTime":2549.46,"body":"bringing arousal down, you're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2546.85,"endTime":2549.46,"body":"probably also working on the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2549.46,"endTime":2552.73,"body":"balance, but it is it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2549.46,"endTime":2552.73,"body":"difficult to get at emotion, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2552.73,"endTime":2557.62,"body":"think it's important, but we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2552.73,"endTime":2557.62,"body":"have limits into how well we can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2557.62,"endTime":2559.84,"body":"understand what a dog is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2557.62,"endTime":2559.84,"body":"feeling. Okay, so"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2559.84,"endTime":2562.03,"body":"now the model"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2559.84,"endTime":2562.03,"body":"that you would lean towards"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2563.83,"endTime":2568.72,"body":"you Yeah. The models"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2563.83,"endTime":2568.72,"body":"are really interesting. So,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2569.5,"endTime":2576.76,"body":"emotion research right now is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2569.5,"endTime":2576.76,"body":"very messy. You have a lot of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2576.94,"endTime":2581.14,"body":"researchers looking at the same"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2576.94,"endTime":2581.14,"body":"set of data and coming up with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2581.17,"endTime":2585.25,"body":"different interpretations. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2581.17,"endTime":2585.25,"body":"I'm kind of in a position right"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2585.25,"endTime":2588.13,"body":"now, honestly, where I'll read"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2585.25,"endTime":2588.13,"body":"one paper, and I think, oh,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2588.13,"endTime":2590.98,"body":"yeah, that's it. That's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2588.13,"endTime":2590.98,"body":"definitely what's going on. It"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2590.98,"endTime":2594.4,"body":"makes so much sense. I'm totally"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2590.98,"endTime":2594.4,"body":"on board with this explanation."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2595.18,"endTime":2600.28,"body":"And then I will read a paper"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2595.18,"endTime":2600.28,"body":"that has an opposing argument"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2600.28,"endTime":2603.61,"body":"and perspective. And I'll think,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2600.28,"endTime":2603.61,"body":"oh, no, wait, this one's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2603.61,"endTime":2607.93,"body":"definitely the correct one. This"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2603.61,"endTime":2607.93,"body":"one's definitely right. And so I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2607.93,"endTime":2611.41,"body":"think we just don't know, there"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2607.93,"endTime":2611.41,"body":"are different models out there."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2611.83,"endTime":2614.92,"body":"And we won't have time to get"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2611.83,"endTime":2614.92,"body":"into the details of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2614.92,"endTime":2619.63,"body":"different models. And I don't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2614.92,"endTime":2619.63,"body":"know which one is right. I will"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2619.63,"endTime":2622.3,"body":"say that I think that to some"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2619.63,"endTime":2622.3,"body":"degree, it comes. It's just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2622.3,"endTime":2628.09,"body":"semantics, like, it gets very,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2622.3,"endTime":2628.09,"body":"very, very technical. There are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2628.09,"endTime":2631.33,"body":"several researchers that sort of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2628.09,"endTime":2631.33,"body":"argue that there's basic"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2631.33,"endTime":2635.14,"body":"emotions. So this is Panksepp"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2631.33,"endTime":2635.14,"body":"and Ekman are the two kind of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2635.14,"endTime":2642.55,"body":"biggest names. And that is the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2635.14,"endTime":2642.55,"body":"older classic, dominant view of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2642.55,"endTime":2647.68,"body":"emotion, then you have a couple"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2642.55,"endTime":2647.68,"body":"newer people that are coming in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2647.68,"endTime":2652.27,"body":"and saying it's kind of more,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2647.68,"endTime":2652.27,"body":"and I don't have a super strong"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2652.27,"endTime":2654.43,"body":"understanding of the newer"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2652.27,"endTime":2654.43,"body":"theories. So I may get this a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2654.43,"endTime":2660.43,"body":"little bit wrong, but it's it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2654.43,"endTime":2660.43,"body":"kind of more of like a cognitive"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2660.43,"endTime":2663.61,"body":"construct where there's not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2660.43,"endTime":2663.61,"body":"necessarily basic emotions, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2663.61,"endTime":2667.84,"body":"has more to do with response to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2663.61,"endTime":2667.84,"body":"the environments very difficult"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2667.84,"endTime":2670.63,"body":"to explain without spending an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2667.84,"endTime":2670.63,"body":"hour getting really technical."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2671.17,"endTime":2673.9,"body":"But their argument is that there"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2671.17,"endTime":2673.9,"body":"aren't basic emotions and that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2673.9,"endTime":2677.44,"body":"the animal sort of responding to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2673.9,"endTime":2677.44,"body":"the situation and assigning an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2677.44,"endTime":2680.62,"body":"emotion to it. Not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2677.44,"endTime":2680.62,"body":"intentionally, but that the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2680.62,"endTime":2686.53,"body":"brain is constructing an emotion"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2680.62,"endTime":2686.53,"body":"based on the animals"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2687.16,"endTime":2691.09,"body":"environment. And I don't know I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2687.16,"endTime":2691.09,"body":"don't know which one is right. I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2691.09,"endTime":2692.32,"body":"mean, I don't think anyone knows"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2692.32,"endTime":2694.18,"body":"you're gonna"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2692.32,"endTime":2694.18,"body":"make kind of thing right? Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2694.42,"endTime":2698.44,"body":"it's, yeah, it's, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2694.42,"endTime":2698.44,"body":"don't know. I just teach this in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2698.44,"endTime":2700.99,"body":"my emotion course. Which will I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2698.44,"endTime":2700.99,"body":"will have already taught by the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2700.99,"endTime":2704.47,"body":"time this podcast comes out. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2700.99,"endTime":2704.47,"body":"I do think it's important to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2704.47,"endTime":2706.72,"body":"understand the distinction"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2704.47,"endTime":2706.72,"body":"between the different models,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2706.72,"endTime":2709.45,"body":"because each one of them has"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2706.72,"endTime":2709.45,"body":"something to add and to offer."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2710.17,"endTime":2715.15,"body":"But I don't know that for us,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2710.17,"endTime":2715.15,"body":"deciding on a model is critical."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2715.39,"endTime":2718.81,"body":"Right to have that emotion"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2715.39,"endTime":2718.81,"body":"research to be helpful. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2718.84,"endTime":2723.04,"body":"obviously, I would love to know"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2718.84,"endTime":2723.04,"body":"which one is right. Ultimately,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2723.04,"endTime":2726.61,"body":"I hope that we get there. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2723.04,"endTime":2726.61,"body":"right now, I think we just don't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2726.61,"endTime":2729.34,"body":"know when the scientists don't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2726.61,"endTime":2729.34,"body":"know. There's a lot of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2729.34,"endTime":2732.07,"body":"discourse. There's a lot of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2729.34,"endTime":2732.07,"body":"conversation right now. And if"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2732.07,"endTime":2733.84,"body":"they don't know, then, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2733.87,"endTime":2736.09,"body":"yeah, that's"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2733.87,"endTime":2736.09,"body":"my ask you as the scientist."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2736.9,"endTime":2740.92,"body":"So what? Yeah, I know."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2736.9,"endTime":2740.92,"body":"But I'm not in there, like in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2740.92,"endTime":2744.97,"body":"the trenches doing the detailed"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2740.92,"endTime":2744.97,"body":"research. And I don't know, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2744.97,"endTime":2748.3,"body":"think they the two main models,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2744.97,"endTime":2748.3,"body":"the constructivist theory of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2748.3,"endTime":2751.75,"body":"emotion and the sort of basic"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2748.3,"endTime":2751.75,"body":"emotion, I think they both have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2752.11,"endTime":2757.03,"body":"strengths. I will say, coming"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2752.11,"endTime":2757.03,"body":"from an evolutionary background,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2757.06,"endTime":2762.22,"body":"I have an extremely hard time"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2757.06,"endTime":2762.22,"body":"believing that there's not some"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2762.22,"endTime":2769.99,"body":"kind of brain derived, naturally"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2762.22,"endTime":2769.99,"body":"selected for system in the brain"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2769.99,"endTime":2773.92,"body":"that drives emotion. So if you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2769.99,"endTime":2773.92,"body":"forced me to pick, I would go"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2773.95,"endTime":2779.32,"body":"with the more neurobiological"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2773.95,"endTime":2779.32,"body":"explanations. But I am open"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2779.32,"endTime":2781.45,"body":"minded to other options as Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2781.48,"endTime":2783.4,"body":"yeah, you had"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2781.48,"endTime":2783.4,"body":"mentioned like Paul Ekman and"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2783.4,"endTime":2786.79,"body":"Jaak Panksepp, the two models"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2783.4,"endTime":2786.79,"body":"that I follow a lot and apply"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2786.79,"endTime":2789.88,"body":"to, I think they're just easier"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2786.79,"endTime":2789.88,"body":"for me to wrap my head around."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2790.93,"endTime":2793.18,"body":"They're definitely"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2790.93,"endTime":2793.18,"body":"easier to understand."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2793.21,"endTime":2795.67,"body":"Yeah, that's,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2793.21,"endTime":2795.67,"body":"you know, when I talk about, you"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2795.67,"endTime":2799.12,"body":"know, emotions and dogs, and its"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2795.67,"endTime":2799.12,"body":"relation, especially to"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2799.12,"endTime":2803.17,"body":"aggression cases, you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2799.12,"endTime":2803.17,"body":"those models are definitely, it"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2803.17,"endTime":2805.12,"body":"makes sense, you know, when"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2803.17,"endTime":2805.12,"body":"you're looking at the aggression"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2805.12,"endTime":2805.75,"body":"cases."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2806.38,"endTime":2809.08,"body":"And I think there's a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2806.38,"endTime":2809.08,"body":"lot of truth to them. I mean, my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2809.08,"endTime":2813.31,"body":"guess is that this newer"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2809.08,"endTime":2813.31,"body":"constructionist theory, will"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2813.31,"endTime":2817.93,"body":"modify those, and we'll add to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2813.31,"endTime":2817.93,"body":"them and make them stronger, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2817.93,"endTime":2820.42,"body":"I doubt that you're going to see"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2817.93,"endTime":2820.42,"body":"those theories totally thrown"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2820.42,"endTime":2823.03,"body":"out, because there's a lot of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2820.42,"endTime":2823.03,"body":"evidence to support them."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2823.72,"endTime":2825.64,"body":"So if we get"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2823.72,"endTime":2825.64,"body":"all the scientists into a room,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2825.64,"endTime":2829.39,"body":"and we were to say, let's help"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2825.64,"endTime":2829.39,"body":"these dog trainers out and give"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2829.39,"endTime":2834.43,"body":"them a way to measure emotions,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2829.39,"endTime":2834.43,"body":"more rigorously. So is there."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2834.49,"endTime":2836.68,"body":"Have you seen anything where"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2834.49,"endTime":2836.68,"body":"people are using looking at the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2836.68,"endTime":2840.25,"body":"heart rate monitors, the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2836.68,"endTime":2840.25,"body":"cortisol level measurements and"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2840.25,"endTime":2844.06,"body":"things in, in your research or"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":2840.25,"endTime":2844.06,"body":"your come across your desk?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2844.48,"endTime":2847.57,"body":"I think if you got off"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2844.48,"endTime":2847.57,"body":"the side, you're gonna hate this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2847.57,"endTime":2851.11,"body":"answer. But I think if you got"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2847.57,"endTime":2851.11,"body":"all the scientists in a room,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2851.5,"endTime":2854.05,"body":"and asked them that question"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2851.5,"endTime":2854.05,"body":"that they would say it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2854.05,"endTime":2859.81,"body":"complicated. And because, again,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2854.05,"endTime":2859.81,"body":"we can measure a arousal, which"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2859.81,"endTime":2864.55,"body":"is stress is a way in a sense of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2859.81,"endTime":2864.55,"body":"measuring arousal. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2864.55,"endTime":2866.77,"body":"technically, when we're talking"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2864.55,"endTime":2866.77,"body":"about arousal, we're really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2866.77,"endTime":2868.84,"body":"talking about sympathetic"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2866.77,"endTime":2868.84,"body":"arousal, which we can also"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2868.84,"endTime":2871.96,"body":"measure using heart rate"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2868.84,"endTime":2871.96,"body":"monitors, and, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2871.99,"endTime":2875.98,"body":"respiration and things like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2871.99,"endTime":2875.98,"body":"that. But they've done, there's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2875.98,"endTime":2879.58,"body":"actually been quite a bit of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2875.98,"endTime":2879.58,"body":"research on trying to get at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2879.58,"endTime":2883.54,"body":"distress in dogs, primarily in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2879.58,"endTime":2883.54,"body":"shelter dogs, but there's also"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2883.54,"endTime":2887.26,"body":"been a little bit of research in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2883.54,"endTime":2887.26,"body":"in working dogs and therapy"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2887.26,"endTime":2896.29,"body":"dogs. And the most consistent"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2887.26,"endTime":2896.29,"body":"results is that we can't measure"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2896.29,"endTime":2900.13,"body":"that yet. We can measure"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2896.29,"endTime":2900.13,"body":"arousal, you can measure stress."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2901.09,"endTime":2906.01,"body":"But that is not enough for us to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2901.09,"endTime":2906.01,"body":"understand the valence, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2906.01,"endTime":2909.31,"body":"know, is this dog happy or not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2906.01,"endTime":2909.31,"body":"happy? Or, you know, what's the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2909.31,"endTime":2914.47,"body":"well being? And it's a problem."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2909.31,"endTime":2914.47,"body":"I mean, it's, it's really a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2914.47,"endTime":2920.23,"body":"problem, the closest thing that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2914.47,"endTime":2920.23,"body":"we have is these cognitive bias"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2920.23,"endTime":2925.75,"body":"tests. And the way that they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2920.23,"endTime":2925.75,"body":"test this is they train the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2925.75,"endTime":2929.71,"body":"animal on a particular signal."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2925.75,"endTime":2929.71,"body":"So it's like a go no go test,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2929.71,"endTime":2933.76,"body":"essentially. So one of the ways"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2929.71,"endTime":2933.76,"body":"that you'll see this setup is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2933.76,"endTime":2937.48,"body":"that they teach the dog that if"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2933.76,"endTime":2937.48,"body":"the bowl is in the left side of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2937.48,"endTime":2941.17,"body":"the room, there's always food in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2937.48,"endTime":2941.17,"body":"it. And so every time the dog"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2941.17,"endTime":2944.08,"body":"goes to that bowl, they will get"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2941.17,"endTime":2944.08,"body":"food. And then they'll have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2944.08,"endTime":2946.9,"body":"another bowl on the right side"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2944.08,"endTime":2946.9,"body":"of the room that never has food"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2946.9,"endTime":2950.02,"body":"in it. And they repeat that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2946.9,"endTime":2950.02,"body":"until the dog learns like, they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2950.02,"endTime":2951.73,"body":"won't even bother going to the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2950.02,"endTime":2951.73,"body":"one on the right, because they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2951.73,"endTime":2954.85,"body":"know there's no food, they'll go"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2951.73,"endTime":2954.85,"body":"to the one on the left. And then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2954.91,"endTime":2958.72,"body":"they'll place a bowl in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2954.91,"endTime":2958.72,"body":"middle of the room. And they'll"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2958.72,"endTime":2962.86,"body":"see what the dog does. So the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2958.72,"endTime":2962.86,"body":"more optimistic dogs that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2962.89,"endTime":2966.82,"body":"anticipate reinforcement, are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2962.89,"endTime":2966.82,"body":"going to approach that bowl"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2966.82,"endTime":2970.81,"body":"probably more quickly. Whereas"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2966.82,"endTime":2970.81,"body":"the more pessimistic dogs are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2970.81,"endTime":2973.84,"body":"going to approach it more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2970.81,"endTime":2973.84,"body":"slowly, because they're not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2973.84,"endTime":2979.57,"body":"anticipating reinforcement. The"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2973.84,"endTime":2979.57,"body":"problem with that test, it works"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2979.57,"endTime":2983.2,"body":"fine. It works great in a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2979.57,"endTime":2983.2,"body":"research setting where you have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2983.68,"endTime":2986.68,"body":"a group of dogs that have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2983.68,"endTime":2986.68,"body":"received two different"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2986.68,"endTime":2990.67,"body":"treatments and you can compare"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2986.68,"endTime":2990.67,"body":"between, you know, group A and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2990.67,"endTime":2993.61,"body":"group B, and which one seems"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2990.67,"endTime":2993.61,"body":"more optimistic, you know, these"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2993.61,"endTime":2996.4,"body":"dogs got more enrichment? Do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2993.61,"endTime":2996.4,"body":"they seem more optimistic?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2996.43,"endTime":3000.12,"body":"Typically, the answer is yes."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2996.43,"endTime":3000.12,"body":"But when you're looking at An"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3000.18,"endTime":3004.65,"body":"individual dog. We don't have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3000.18,"endTime":3004.65,"body":"enough data, like it's just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3004.68,"endTime":3007.8,"body":"there's too many factors, right?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3004.68,"endTime":3007.8,"body":"So you can't take an individual"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3007.8,"endTime":3011.58,"body":"dog and run that test and say,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3007.8,"endTime":3011.58,"body":"Oh, my dog is optimistic,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3011.58,"endTime":3014.04,"body":"because what are you comparing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3011.58,"endTime":3014.04,"body":"it to, you might be able to get"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3014.04,"endTime":3018.57,"body":"some idea. But it's not going to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3014.04,"endTime":3018.57,"body":"be like, you know, if it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3018.57,"endTime":3022.32,"body":"faster than 30 seconds, or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3018.57,"endTime":3022.32,"body":"faster than five seconds, then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3022.32,"endTime":3024.45,"body":"they're optimistic. But if it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3022.32,"endTime":3024.45,"body":"slower, they're pessimistic. We"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3024.45,"endTime":3027.51,"body":"don't have that kind of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3024.45,"endTime":3027.51,"body":"benchmark. So it's, it's a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3027.51,"endTime":3032.82,"body":"problem. I don't I wish I could"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3027.51,"endTime":3032.82,"body":"give you a nice, clear, easy"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3032.82,"endTime":3036.75,"body":"answer to this question. But we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3032.82,"endTime":3036.75,"body":"just don't have it. I mean, we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3036.75,"endTime":3040.26,"body":"can come back to body language,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3036.75,"endTime":3040.26,"body":"you can come back to know all"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3040.26,"endTime":3043.08,"body":"those things we talked before"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3040.26,"endTime":3043.08,"body":"about how do you assess toxic"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3043.08,"endTime":3046.56,"body":"stress? That's very similar to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3043.08,"endTime":3046.56,"body":"looking at negative versus"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3046.56,"endTime":3049.83,"body":"positive emotion, right? Like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3046.56,"endTime":3049.83,"body":"you know, how much does the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3049.83,"endTime":3053.13,"body":"animals seem to enjoy their"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3049.83,"endTime":3053.13,"body":"typical life? How frequently?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3053.16,"endTime":3057.33,"body":"Are they engaging in pleasurable"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3053.16,"endTime":3057.33,"body":"activities? Do they want to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3057.33,"endTime":3059.34,"body":"engage in those pleasurable"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3057.33,"endTime":3059.34,"body":"activities? What is their"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3059.34,"endTime":3063.54,"body":"recovery time is all of those"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3059.34,"endTime":3063.54,"body":"same questions, I would pose for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3063.57,"endTime":3066.87,"body":"emotion as I would stress"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3063.57,"endTime":3066.87,"body":"because stress is very closely"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3066.87,"endTime":3068.07,"body":"tied to emotion."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":3068.19,"endTime":3070.62,"body":"Yeah, you're"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":3068.19,"endTime":3070.62,"body":"gonna hate this response. But"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":3070.62,"endTime":3073.77,"body":"it's, it's almost like"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":3070.62,"endTime":3073.77,"body":"intuition. Like, you've got to"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":3073.77,"endTime":3076.44,"body":"be intuitive. No, I don't hate"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":3073.77,"endTime":3076.44,"body":"it. I mean, it's, you know, your"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":3076.44,"endTime":3077.64,"body":"own dog sometimes. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3077.64,"endTime":3081.69,"body":"we don't have a lot"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3077.64,"endTime":3081.69,"body":"better than that. Right now. It"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3081.69,"endTime":3086.31,"body":"is intuition. I think if you I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3081.69,"endTime":3086.31,"body":"mean, some dogs, it's very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3086.31,"endTime":3089.01,"body":"obvious, right? I mean,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3086.31,"endTime":3089.01,"body":"sometimes it's very obvious that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3089.01,"endTime":3092.07,"body":"they're happy dogs, and other"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3089.01,"endTime":3092.07,"body":"dogs, it's very obvious that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3092.07,"endTime":3098.49,"body":"they're extremely unhappy. But a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3092.07,"endTime":3098.49,"body":"lot of dogs are in between. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3099.03,"endTime":3102.42,"body":"it's hard. I mean, it's, I look"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3099.03,"endTime":3102.42,"body":"at my own dogs sometimes, like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3102.87,"endTime":3106.98,"body":"Are my dogs happy enough? You"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3102.87,"endTime":3106.98,"body":"know, my husband asked her that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3106.98,"endTime":3113.61,"body":"question sometimes, and it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3106.98,"endTime":3113.61,"body":"drives me. But yeah, I mean, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3113.61,"endTime":3118.47,"body":"think when we talk about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3113.61,"endTime":3118.47,"body":"science, I, I am really hardcore"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3118.47,"endTime":3124.47,"body":"into science. I'm about as geeky"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3118.47,"endTime":3124.47,"body":"as you can get. And I do think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3124.47,"endTime":3127.92,"body":"there is also an art to it. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3124.47,"endTime":3127.92,"body":"I think what you're getting"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3127.92,"endTime":3132.0,"body":"into, at least right now, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3127.92,"endTime":3132.0,"body":"mean, hopefully will change as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3132.0,"endTime":3135.39,"body":"we get more and more research,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3132.0,"endTime":3135.39,"body":"but at least right now, that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3135.39,"endTime":3139.68,"body":"judgment, is more of an art, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3135.39,"endTime":3139.68,"body":"think is looking at that dog in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3139.68,"endTime":3144.96,"body":"the moment and making a judgment"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3139.68,"endTime":3144.96,"body":"call is this dog, who cares?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3144.96,"endTime":3147.57,"body":"This dog not okay. And again,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3144.96,"endTime":3147.57,"body":"there's going to be times where"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3147.57,"endTime":3150.87,"body":"it's really obvious. And there's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3147.57,"endTime":3150.87,"body":"going to be a lot of times where"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3150.87,"endTime":3155.13,"body":"it's not. And because I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3150.87,"endTime":3155.13,"body":"understand the impacts of stress"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3155.13,"endTime":3158.85,"body":"so well, I will always, always"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3155.13,"endTime":3158.85,"body":"err on the side of caution,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3158.94,"endTime":3162.99,"body":"because you're very unlikely to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3158.94,"endTime":3162.99,"body":"do harm. If you stay in the same"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3162.99,"endTime":3166.02,"body":"place for too long, or at least"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3162.99,"endTime":3166.02,"body":"the harm you do will be very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3166.02,"endTime":3170.31,"body":"minimal. But if you push too"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3166.02,"endTime":3170.31,"body":"hard, you could do serious"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3170.31,"endTime":3175.23,"body":"damage. Right? So yeah, I wish"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3170.31,"endTime":3175.23,"body":"we had better answers to these"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3175.23,"endTime":3176.61,"body":"questions, but we don't yet"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":3177.09,"endTime":3180.24,"body":"on that topic"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":3177.09,"endTime":3180.24,"body":"of harm. And you know, these"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":3180.27,"endTime":3183.27,"body":"Well, again, going back to the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":3180.27,"endTime":3183.27,"body":"toxic states of stress. So you"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":3183.3,"endTime":3186.6,"body":"mentioned the connectedness of"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":3183.3,"endTime":3186.6,"body":"trauma. Can we talk about that"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":3186.6,"endTime":3188.91,"body":"in a little bit too, because I"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":3186.6,"endTime":3188.91,"body":"think it really impacts again,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":3189.21,"endTime":3192.33,"body":"aggression cases, especially"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":3189.21,"endTime":3192.33,"body":"right now with with, you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":3192.33,"endTime":3194.46,"body":"the number of dogs we're seeing"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":3192.33,"endTime":3194.46,"body":"that are experienced trauma"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":3194.46,"endTime":3198.27,"body":"coming from difference scenarios"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":3194.46,"endTime":3198.27,"body":"or environments. Yeah, what's"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":3198.27,"endTime":3201.39,"body":"the connectedness there? Can you"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":3198.27,"endTime":3201.39,"body":"explain that further stress and"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":3201.39,"endTime":3201.99,"body":"trauma?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3202.38,"endTime":3207.03,"body":"Yeah, so this is gonna"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3202.38,"endTime":3207.03,"body":"get us into the brain. And so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3207.03,"endTime":3210.72,"body":"trauma is a form of stress."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3207.03,"endTime":3210.72,"body":"Trauma is just really, really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3210.72,"endTime":3213.63,"body":"intense acute stress, or it can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3210.72,"endTime":3213.63,"body":"be chronic too. But it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3213.63,"endTime":3216.63,"body":"basically overwhelming stress is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3213.63,"endTime":3216.63,"body":"I mean, that's how I think of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3216.63,"endTime":3220.2,"body":"it. And one of the reasons I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3216.63,"endTime":3220.2,"body":"think that trauma is just a form"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3220.2,"endTime":3223.17,"body":"of stress, is because if you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3220.2,"endTime":3223.17,"body":"look at the impact if you look"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3223.17,"endTime":3227.79,"body":"at the impacts of trauma, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3223.17,"endTime":3227.79,"body":"chronic stress on the brain that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3227.79,"endTime":3231.18,"body":"are basically the same, at least"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3227.79,"endTime":3231.18,"body":"as far as we understand them. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3231.18,"endTime":3234.18,"body":"there's three primary brain"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3231.18,"endTime":3234.18,"body":"areas that are impacted. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3234.18,"endTime":3237.12,"body":"some of this is biased by what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3234.18,"endTime":3237.12,"body":"we study, but there's three"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3237.12,"endTime":3240.78,"body":"really clear standouts, and if"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3237.12,"endTime":3240.78,"body":"anyone knows anything about the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3240.78,"endTime":3243.51,"body":"brain and behavior, these three"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3240.78,"endTime":3243.51,"body":"will not be surprising. So the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3243.51,"endTime":3246.33,"body":"first one is the amygdala, which"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3243.51,"endTime":3246.33,"body":"I think everyone is aware of. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3246.33,"endTime":3250.14,"body":"the amygdala plays a major role"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3246.33,"endTime":3250.14,"body":"in fear. It is not the only"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3250.14,"endTime":3253.53,"body":"thing that it does. But it is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3250.14,"endTime":3253.53,"body":"one of the major things that it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3253.53,"endTime":3258.36,"body":"does. And so animals that have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3253.53,"endTime":3258.36,"body":"experienced Well, individuals"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3258.36,"endTime":3262.26,"body":"that have PTSD, so we have to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3258.36,"endTime":3262.26,"body":"make a distinction here, because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3262.83,"endTime":3265.86,"body":"you can experience a potentially"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3262.83,"endTime":3265.86,"body":"traumatic event, which is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3265.86,"endTime":3272.22,"body":"typically defined as something"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3265.86,"endTime":3272.22,"body":"that is like life or limb"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3272.22,"endTime":3276.93,"body":"threatening, like something"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3272.22,"endTime":3276.93,"body":"that's very, has the power to do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3276.93,"endTime":3283.35,"body":"serious damage. Some individuals"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3276.93,"endTime":3283.35,"body":"will come out of that fine in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3283.35,"endTime":3288.09,"body":"the long run. Most individuals"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3283.35,"endTime":3288.09,"body":"are impacted in the short run."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3288.48,"endTime":3291.09,"body":"And that actually looks the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3288.48,"endTime":3291.09,"body":"same. It's difficult to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3291.09,"endTime":3294.18,"body":"distinguish between who is going"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3291.09,"endTime":3294.18,"body":"to develop PTSD and who is not."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3295.65,"endTime":3299.7,"body":"But some of them will develop"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3295.65,"endTime":3299.7,"body":"PTSD. So when I'm talking about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3299.7,"endTime":3306.99,"body":"trauma Ma, I'm talking about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3299.7,"endTime":3306.99,"body":"trauma that ends up causing long"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3306.99,"endTime":3310.92,"body":"term effects. And, again, we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3306.99,"endTime":3310.92,"body":"could there's a whole side"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3310.92,"endTime":3314.91,"body":"conversation here about PTSD and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3310.92,"endTime":3314.91,"body":"non human animals. What I will"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3314.91,"endTime":3320.85,"body":"say is that I will not say that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3314.91,"endTime":3320.85,"body":"animals develop PTSD in the same"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3320.85,"endTime":3325.5,"body":"way that people do, because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3320.85,"endTime":3325.5,"body":"they're not people. And we have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3325.53,"endTime":3332.37,"body":"ample evidence that many of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3325.53,"endTime":3332.37,"body":"symptoms of trauma are the same"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3332.52,"endTime":3335.37,"body":"in at least rodents, because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3332.52,"endTime":3335.37,"body":"that's where they're doing, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3335.37,"endTime":3338.79,"body":"know, the studies, many of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3335.37,"endTime":3338.79,"body":"symptoms are the same. So they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3338.79,"endTime":3342.54,"body":"have been able to replicate a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3338.79,"endTime":3342.54,"body":"large proportion of the symptoms"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3342.6,"endTime":3346.92,"body":"in human PTSD in animal models."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3342.6,"endTime":3346.92,"body":"And so it's probably not the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3346.92,"endTime":3351.42,"body":"exact same thing. But there are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3346.92,"endTime":3351.42,"body":"many similarities. And we know"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3351.42,"endTime":3353.82,"body":"that it impacts the brain in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3351.42,"endTime":3353.82,"body":"similar ways, because again,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3353.82,"endTime":3358.56,"body":"these studies are being done on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3353.82,"endTime":3358.56,"body":"these rodents. So animals that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3358.56,"endTime":3361.92,"body":"have gone through trauma,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3358.56,"endTime":3361.92,"body":"meaning have developed long term"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3361.92,"endTime":3366.66,"body":"symptoms of a traumatic"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3361.92,"endTime":3366.66,"body":"experience, have amygdala as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3366.66,"endTime":3371.88,"body":"that are hyperactive, so they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3366.66,"endTime":3371.88,"body":"respond much more strongly to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3371.88,"endTime":3375.72,"body":"fear of producing or potential"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3371.88,"endTime":3375.72,"body":"threats, stimuli that are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3375.72,"endTime":3378.27,"body":"potentially threatening than"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3375.72,"endTime":3378.27,"body":"other animals do. So they have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3378.27,"endTime":3382.62,"body":"this sort of hyperactive"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3378.27,"endTime":3382.62,"body":"amygdala and even in, in cases"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3382.65,"endTime":3386.19,"body":"of developmental stress, so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3382.65,"endTime":3386.19,"body":"animals that are experiencing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3386.19,"endTime":3390.24,"body":"stress, toxic stress during"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3386.19,"endTime":3390.24,"body":"development, they often will"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3390.24,"endTime":3394.68,"body":"even have like larger amygdalas."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3390.24,"endTime":3394.68,"body":"So that's one brain areas, this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3394.71,"endTime":3401.04,"body":"threat, fear system, then you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3394.71,"endTime":3401.04,"body":"have the hippocampus. And the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3401.04,"endTime":3403.56,"body":"hippocampus is involved. A lot"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3401.04,"endTime":3403.56,"body":"of people think of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3403.56,"endTime":3406.56,"body":"hippocampus as being involved in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3403.56,"endTime":3406.56,"body":"episodic memory, which is like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3406.56,"endTime":3414.84,"body":"stories. But it also plays a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3406.56,"endTime":3414.84,"body":"role in context. So I always use"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3414.84,"endTime":3417.39,"body":"the vet clinic example, it's the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3414.84,"endTime":3417.39,"body":"easiest, if you have a dog that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3417.39,"endTime":3419.82,"body":"goes to the vet clinic, and they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3417.39,"endTime":3419.82,"body":"have something scary done to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3419.82,"endTime":3420.54,"body":"them there."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3421.95,"endTime":3426.0,"body":"There's going to be all kinds of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3421.95,"endTime":3426.0,"body":"stimuli associated with that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3426.0,"endTime":3429.6,"body":"specific thing, you know, so the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3426.0,"endTime":3429.6,"body":"syringe, the white coat of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3429.6,"endTime":3435.0,"body":"person, but it also happens"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3429.6,"endTime":3435.0,"body":"within a certain context. And it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3435.0,"endTime":3438.72,"body":"turns out that, that that fear"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3435.0,"endTime":3438.72,"body":"of the context of that low"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3438.72,"endTime":3443.55,"body":"physical location is stored in a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3438.72,"endTime":3443.55,"body":"different brain area than all of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3443.55,"endTime":3449.04,"body":"those other stimuli. So what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3443.55,"endTime":3449.04,"body":"happens in trauma is that the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3449.04,"endTime":3454.95,"body":"hippocampus is damaged, and it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3449.04,"endTime":3454.95,"body":"not working as well. And so what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3454.95,"endTime":3457.53,"body":"we think is going on is one of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3454.95,"endTime":3457.53,"body":"the things that we think is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3457.53,"endTime":3461.82,"body":"going on is that it loses its"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3457.53,"endTime":3461.82,"body":"ability to identify the context"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3461.82,"endTime":3465.45,"body":"of the trauma. And now you have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3461.82,"endTime":3465.45,"body":"an animal that can't distinguish"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3465.45,"endTime":3469.59,"body":"between safe and unsafe. So this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3465.45,"endTime":3469.59,"body":"bad thing happened at the park"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3469.59,"endTime":3474.45,"body":"where I got attacked by another"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3469.59,"endTime":3474.45,"body":"dog. So the normal thing that we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3474.45,"endTime":3476.49,"body":"would expect to happen is that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3474.45,"endTime":3476.49,"body":"there'll be a strong fear"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3476.49,"endTime":3481.56,"body":"response in that context. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3476.49,"endTime":3481.56,"body":"what happens with long term"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3481.56,"endTime":3484.8,"body":"trauma is that that fear"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3481.56,"endTime":3484.8,"body":"response starts to bleed into"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3484.8,"endTime":3488.52,"body":"all of these other areas. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3484.8,"endTime":3488.52,"body":"that's most likely because of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3488.52,"endTime":3492.0,"body":"damage that has happened to the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3488.52,"endTime":3492.0,"body":"hippocampus. The other thing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3492.0,"endTime":3494.97,"body":"that the hippocampus does, is it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3492.0,"endTime":3494.97,"body":"plays an important role in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3494.97,"endTime":3499.5,"body":"extinction. And it also seems"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3494.97,"endTime":3499.5,"body":"like extinction is broken in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3499.5,"endTime":3505.26,"body":"individuals with PTSD. And so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3499.5,"endTime":3505.26,"body":"it's like, if you put people and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3505.62,"endTime":3508.62,"body":"other animals through an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3505.62,"endTime":3508.62,"body":"extinction procedure, and when"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3508.62,"endTime":3510.54,"body":"we're talking about extinction,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3508.62,"endTime":3510.54,"body":"we're talking about classical"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3510.54,"endTime":3513.6,"body":"extinctions, we're talking about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3510.54,"endTime":3513.6,"body":"decreasing a fear response, not,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3513.99,"endTime":3518.76,"body":"you know, not reinforcing a set."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3513.99,"endTime":3518.76,"body":"So if you put them through a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3518.76,"endTime":3523.32,"body":"fear extinction process,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3518.76,"endTime":3523.32,"body":"individuals with PTSD or you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3523.32,"endTime":3527.52,"body":"know, long lasting trauma"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3523.32,"endTime":3527.52,"body":"effects, it just doesn't stick,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3527.61,"endTime":3531.75,"body":"like you, maybe you'll get a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3527.61,"endTime":3531.75,"body":"temporary reduction in that fear"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3531.75,"endTime":3534.87,"body":"response, but then it will come"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3531.75,"endTime":3534.87,"body":"back. And that's, again,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3534.87,"endTime":3537.57,"body":"probably well, it's probably"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3534.87,"endTime":3537.57,"body":"partly because of what's going"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3537.57,"endTime":3540.84,"body":"on in the hippocampus. And then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3537.57,"endTime":3540.84,"body":"the third brain area that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3540.84,"endTime":3543.93,"body":"involved is the prefrontal"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3540.84,"endTime":3543.93,"body":"cortex, which plays a really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3543.93,"endTime":3548.4,"body":"important role in a lot of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3543.93,"endTime":3548.4,"body":"things, emotional regulation,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3548.43,"endTime":3551.97,"body":"and impulse control, and even"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3548.43,"endTime":3551.97,"body":"the regulation of attention, for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3551.97,"endTime":3555.96,"body":"example. And so this is the part"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3551.97,"endTime":3555.96,"body":"of the brain. I would call it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3555.96,"endTime":3559.47,"body":"like the thinking part of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3555.96,"endTime":3559.47,"body":"brain. And so one of the jobs of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3559.47,"endTime":3563.04,"body":"the prefrontal cortex is to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3559.47,"endTime":3563.04,"body":"inhibit really strong emotions"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3563.13,"endTime":3567.66,"body":"to inhibit behavioral impulses,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3563.13,"endTime":3567.66,"body":"and is also really important for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3567.66,"endTime":3571.83,"body":"flexible thinking and behavior."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3567.66,"endTime":3571.83,"body":"And in developmental stress,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3571.83,"endTime":3575.16,"body":"toxic stress trauma, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3571.83,"endTime":3575.16,"body":"prefrontal cortex is damaged and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3575.16,"endTime":3578.79,"body":"it's not working correctly. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3575.16,"endTime":3578.79,"body":"you end up with animals that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3578.79,"endTime":3583.68,"body":"have an overactive fear center."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3578.79,"endTime":3583.68,"body":"They have this issue with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3583.74,"endTime":3586.86,"body":"extinction doesn't work very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3583.74,"endTime":3586.86,"body":"well, and they can't distinguish"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3586.86,"endTime":3592.56,"body":"between safe and unsafe. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3586.86,"endTime":3592.56,"body":"their ability to limit the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3592.56,"endTime":3596.01,"body":"emotions and the impulses that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3592.56,"endTime":3596.01,"body":"are generated by those things."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3596.4,"endTime":3599.46,"body":"is damaged and it's it's like a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3596.4,"endTime":3599.46,"body":"perfect storm. I mean, it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3599.46,"endTime":3602.82,"body":"really I think once you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3599.46,"endTime":3602.82,"body":"understand the neurobiology, it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3602.82,"endTime":3606.45,"body":"makes it really, really clear"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3602.82,"endTime":3606.45,"body":"why it can be so difficult to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3606.45,"endTime":3607.8,"body":"address these issues."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":3608.67,"endTime":3611.19,"body":"That is the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":3608.67,"endTime":3611.19,"body":"most excellent response to that"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":3611.19,"endTime":3613.08,"body":"question I've ever heard,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":3611.19,"endTime":3613.08,"body":"because I've heard a lot of"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":3613.08,"endTime":3616.89,"body":"people talk about it, but you"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":3613.08,"endTime":3616.89,"body":"explained it so so well, and it"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":3616.89,"endTime":3619.23,"body":"makes me want to segue into"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":3616.89,"endTime":3619.23,"body":"something else we were going to"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":3619.23,"endTime":3621.84,"body":"talk about was, which was"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":3619.23,"endTime":3621.84,"body":"impulse control? Yeah. Because"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":3621.99,"endTime":3624.84,"body":"it sounds like a lot of what's"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":3621.99,"endTime":3624.84,"body":"happening there in the brain is"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":3624.84,"endTime":3627.27,"body":"going to have an impact. And"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":3624.84,"endTime":3627.27,"body":"what another buzz term we're"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":3627.27,"endTime":3632.46,"body":"going to define here is impulse"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":3627.27,"endTime":3632.46,"body":"control. So kind of piggybacking"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":3632.46,"endTime":3634.98,"body":"off Richard was talking about,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":3632.46,"endTime":3634.98,"body":"can you define impulse control?"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":3634.98,"endTime":3637.77,"body":"And actually how it relates to"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":3634.98,"endTime":3637.77,"body":"what you're talking about?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3638.19,"endTime":3642.3,"body":"Yes. So impulse"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3638.19,"endTime":3642.3,"body":"control, has two components to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3642.3,"endTime":3645.66,"body":"it. So the first component is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3642.3,"endTime":3645.66,"body":"what I think most people think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3645.66,"endTime":3649.08,"body":"of, which is poor response"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3645.66,"endTime":3649.08,"body":"inhibition. So that basically"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3649.08,"endTime":3653.7,"body":"means that you engage in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3649.08,"endTime":3653.7,"body":"behaviors, to put it very, very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3653.7,"endTime":3657.3,"body":"simply, right, so the animal has"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3653.7,"endTime":3657.3,"body":"a hard time inhibiting its"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3657.3,"endTime":3661.08,"body":"behavior. The other aspect of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3657.3,"endTime":3661.08,"body":"impulse control, which I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3661.08,"endTime":3664.59,"body":"is really interesting is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3661.08,"endTime":3664.59,"body":"impulsive, individuals have an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3664.59,"endTime":3671.01,"body":"aversion to delayed reward. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3664.59,"endTime":3671.01,"body":"what that means is that they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3671.01,"endTime":3675.81,"body":"will go for what some of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3671.01,"endTime":3675.81,"body":"researchers call smaller, sooner"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3675.84,"endTime":3682.8,"body":"rewards more than later, larger"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3675.84,"endTime":3682.8,"body":"rewards. And I think that this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3682.8,"endTime":3685.47,"body":"also drives a lot of that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3682.8,"endTime":3685.47,"body":"frustration, right. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3685.71,"endTime":3690.03,"body":"impulsive, individuals tend to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3685.71,"endTime":3690.03,"body":"get very frustrated when they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3690.03,"endTime":3694.56,"body":"don't get access to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3690.03,"endTime":3694.56,"body":"reinforcement. And that can also"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3694.56,"endTime":3697.62,"body":"drive aggression. So that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3694.56,"endTime":3697.62,"body":"frustration. So that's one"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3697.62,"endTime":3701.4,"body":"aspect of it. But then if you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3697.62,"endTime":3701.4,"body":"have an animal that is having"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3701.4,"endTime":3705.96,"body":"strong emotions, and on top of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3701.4,"endTime":3705.96,"body":"that they have poor impulse"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3705.96,"endTime":3709.92,"body":"control. Remember that emotion"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3705.96,"endTime":3709.92,"body":"motivates behavior. So if you're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3709.92,"endTime":3712.11,"body":"having strong emotions, if you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3709.92,"endTime":3712.11,"body":"haven't strong negative"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3712.11,"endTime":3715.32,"body":"emotions, or positive emotions,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3712.11,"endTime":3715.32,"body":"and arousal levels high, so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3715.32,"endTime":3720.84,"body":"they're very intense, then that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3715.32,"endTime":3720.84,"body":"is going to motivate behavior."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3721.11,"endTime":3723.66,"body":"And the animal is going to have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3721.11,"endTime":3723.66,"body":"a hard time inhibiting that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3723.66,"endTime":3726.81,"body":"behavior, even if it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3723.66,"endTime":3726.81,"body":"inappropriate or maladaptive."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3727.14,"endTime":3730.8,"body":"And then again, if you think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3727.14,"endTime":3730.8,"body":"animals that are under stress,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3730.95,"endTime":3733.38,"body":"animals that have a history of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3730.95,"endTime":3733.38,"body":"stress, that have a history of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3733.38,"endTime":3737.67,"body":"trauma, are going to have a more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3733.38,"endTime":3737.67,"body":"difficult time with that impulse"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3737.67,"endTime":3740.88,"body":"control. And then if they're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3737.67,"endTime":3740.88,"body":"also experiencing higher levels"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3740.88,"endTime":3744.15,"body":"of fear and anxiety, you're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3740.88,"endTime":3744.15,"body":"going to get a lot of impulsive"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3744.15,"endTime":3748.59,"body":"behavior, which is going to make"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3744.15,"endTime":3748.59,"body":"that behavior change even more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3748.62,"endTime":3752.97,"body":"difficult. And I'd like to bring"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3748.62,"endTime":3752.97,"body":"one other thing in here if I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3752.97,"endTime":3757.74,"body":"can, which is this emotional"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3752.97,"endTime":3757.74,"body":"reactivity component. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3758.4,"endTime":3762.15,"body":"emotional reactivity is one of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3758.4,"endTime":3762.15,"body":"those things that has many"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3762.15,"endTime":3765.51,"body":"different definitions, both in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3762.15,"endTime":3765.51,"body":"the dog training world and in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3765.51,"endTime":3767.67,"body":"the scientific literature. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3765.51,"endTime":3767.67,"body":"when we're talking about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3767.67,"endTime":3769.8,"body":"reactivity, sometimes we're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3767.67,"endTime":3769.8,"body":"talking about dogs barking and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3769.8,"endTime":3773.46,"body":"lunging unleash, some people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3769.8,"endTime":3773.46,"body":"talk about reactivity more as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3773.52,"endTime":3775.95,"body":"emotional reactivity, when you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3773.52,"endTime":3775.95,"body":"have a dog that's reacting to a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3775.95,"endTime":3779.16,"body":"lot of triggers in general,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3775.95,"endTime":3779.16,"body":"there's just different ways of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3779.16,"endTime":3783.6,"body":"thinking about it. And to my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3779.16,"endTime":3783.6,"body":"great frustration, you see this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3783.6,"endTime":3789.33,"body":"in the literature as well. But I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3783.6,"endTime":3789.33,"body":"do think I feel like I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3789.33,"endTime":3793.26,"body":"starting to see some convergence"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3789.33,"endTime":3793.26,"body":"in the literature on this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3793.26,"endTime":3799.26,"body":"concept of effective style"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3793.26,"endTime":3799.26,"body":"that's effective with an A. and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3799.26,"endTime":3803.7,"body":"effective is another word of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3799.26,"endTime":3803.7,"body":"talking about emotion. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3804.09,"endTime":3813.18,"body":"effective styles refer to how an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3804.09,"endTime":3813.18,"body":"animal responds emotionally. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3813.78,"endTime":3817.8,"body":"it's, it has to do with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3813.78,"endTime":3817.8,"body":"individual variability in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3817.8,"endTime":3822.39,"body":"emotional responsiveness. And so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3817.8,"endTime":3822.39,"body":"there's three components to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3822.42,"endTime":3828.33,"body":"emotional reactivity using this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3822.42,"endTime":3828.33,"body":"perspective. The first one is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3828.36,"endTime":3833.37,"body":"how easily are those emotions"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3828.36,"endTime":3833.37,"body":"triggered? So sort of how"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3833.37,"endTime":3837.3,"body":"reactive or how responsive is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3833.37,"endTime":3837.3,"body":"the animal to emotions? The"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3837.3,"endTime":3842.7,"body":"second one is how fast do those"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3837.3,"endTime":3842.7,"body":"emotions rise? And what is the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3842.7,"endTime":3847.29,"body":"ceiling? So this has to do with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3842.7,"endTime":3847.29,"body":"intensity? And then the last one"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3847.29,"endTime":3851.37,"body":"is duration is how long do those"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3847.29,"endTime":3851.37,"body":"emotions last? How long does it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3851.37,"endTime":3854.28,"body":"take the animal to return to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3851.37,"endTime":3854.28,"body":"baseline? So before I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3854.28,"endTime":3857.22,"body":"talking about stress, and I said"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3854.28,"endTime":3857.22,"body":"that stress plays into this, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3857.22,"endTime":3861.33,"body":"there also seems to be an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3857.22,"endTime":3861.33,"body":"underlying just individual"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3861.33,"endTime":3865.95,"body":"variability in this that is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3861.33,"endTime":3865.95,"body":"separate from stress. And so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3865.95,"endTime":3870.78,"body":"some animals seem to be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3865.95,"endTime":3870.78,"body":"naturally more emotionally"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3870.78,"endTime":3874.17,"body":"reactive, which means they have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3870.78,"endTime":3874.17,"body":"lower thresholds, stronger"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3874.17,"endTime":3878.64,"body":"responses, and a longer"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3874.17,"endTime":3878.64,"body":"duration. And those individuals"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3878.64,"endTime":3884.85,"body":"then are prone to more behavior"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3878.64,"endTime":3884.85,"body":"issues, right? Because, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3884.88,"endTime":3888.66,"body":"most a lot of this research is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3884.88,"endTime":3888.66,"body":"in people, but there's no"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3888.66,"endTime":3891.99,"body":"evidence at all that it doesn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3888.66,"endTime":3891.99,"body":"apply to other species,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3891.99,"endTime":3895.41,"body":"especially mammals. And in fact,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3891.99,"endTime":3895.41,"body":"all the studies on this that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3895.41,"endTime":3898.98,"body":"have been done in other species,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3895.41,"endTime":3898.98,"body":"replicate the results in people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3898.98,"endTime":3903.45,"body":"so I have no Oh, no reason to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3898.98,"endTime":3903.45,"body":"believe that a lot of this isn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3903.45,"endTime":3905.97,"body":"true. And dogs and the stress"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3903.45,"endTime":3905.97,"body":"research in particular has been"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3905.97,"endTime":3909.78,"body":"done on all kinds of species and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3905.97,"endTime":3909.78,"body":"replicated. But if you have a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3909.78,"endTime":3913.74,"body":"dog that tends to trigger"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3909.78,"endTime":3913.74,"body":"faster, has more intense"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3913.74,"endTime":3917.88,"body":"emotions, and they last longer,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3913.74,"endTime":3917.88,"body":"you also have an animal now that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3917.88,"endTime":3922.17,"body":"tends to be in, in a negative"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3917.88,"endTime":3922.17,"body":"emotional state more frequently."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3922.95,"endTime":3926.94,"body":"And that is going to lead to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3922.95,"endTime":3926.94,"body":"increased emotional reactivity"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3926.94,"endTime":3930.72,"body":"to because they're stressed a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3926.94,"endTime":3930.72,"body":"lot of the time. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3930.72,"endTime":3933.57,"body":"interestingly, that we haven't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3930.72,"endTime":3933.57,"body":"figured this out yet. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3934.92,"endTime":3938.07,"body":"it's possible that those"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3934.92,"endTime":3938.07,"body":"emotionally reactive dogs, that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3938.07,"endTime":3941.1,"body":"it may not be just limited to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3938.07,"endTime":3941.1,"body":"negative emotions, and that some"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3941.1,"endTime":3944.97,"body":"of these guys may also have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3941.1,"endTime":3944.97,"body":"stronger positive emotions. So I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3944.97,"endTime":3948.66,"body":"was talking about my guy before"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3944.97,"endTime":3948.66,"body":"Finn, the Australian Shepherd"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3949.08,"endTime":3953.64,"body":"100%, this is true for him, he"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3949.08,"endTime":3953.64,"body":"has some very scary, impulsive"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3953.64,"endTime":3957.0,"body":"aggression tendencies where he"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3953.64,"endTime":3957.0,"body":"can become very, very aggressive"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3957.0,"endTime":3962.07,"body":"with other dogs. And he's like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3957.0,"endTime":3962.07,"body":"the happiest dog, I mean, I've"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3962.07,"endTime":3967.92,"body":"never seen a dog gets as excited"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3962.07,"endTime":3967.92,"body":"about life as he does. But for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3967.92,"endTime":3970.5,"body":"him, and it's not gonna be this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3967.92,"endTime":3970.5,"body":"way for every dog that has"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3970.53,"endTime":3976.77,"body":"aggression. But for him, I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3970.53,"endTime":3976.77,"body":"his primary issue is that he has"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3976.77,"endTime":3981.12,"body":"incredibly intense emotions. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3976.77,"endTime":3981.12,"body":"when he's happy, he's really,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3981.12,"endTime":3984.39,"body":"really happy. But when he's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3981.12,"endTime":3984.39,"body":"frustrated, he's really, really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3984.39,"endTime":3989.4,"body":"frustrated. And if you look at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3984.39,"endTime":3989.4,"body":"individuals that have that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3989.4,"endTime":3996.03,"body":"profile, it requires an intense"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3989.4,"endTime":3996.03,"body":"amount of coping skills, to be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3996.03,"endTime":3999.72,"body":"able to deal with that and kind"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3996.03,"endTime":3999.72,"body":"of live a successful life. And I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3999.72,"endTime":4002.69,"body":"suspect that we see a fair"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3999.72,"endTime":4002.69,"body":"amount of dogs with aggression"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4002.69,"endTime":4005.69,"body":"issues that have that kind of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4002.69,"endTime":4005.69,"body":"profile. And then if you throw"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4005.69,"endTime":4009.53,"body":"stress, chronic developmental"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4005.69,"endTime":4009.53,"body":"stress trauma on top of it, or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4009.53,"endTime":4014.54,"body":"bad genetics, then you really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4009.53,"endTime":4014.54,"body":"can get a dog that's struggling"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4014.54,"endTime":4014.96,"body":"a lot."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":4015.89,"endTime":4017.42,"body":"It's an"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":4015.89,"endTime":4017.42,"body":"amazing way to tie everything"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":4017.42,"endTime":4020.48,"body":"together to talking about Finn."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":4017.42,"endTime":4020.48,"body":"And it sets kind of a good"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":4020.48,"endTime":4023.06,"body":"picture of, you know, everything"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":4020.48,"endTime":4023.06,"body":"we were talking about. So,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":4023.3,"endTime":4026.51,"body":"Christina, I can't thank you"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":4023.3,"endTime":4026.51,"body":"enough for helping us define all"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":4026.51,"endTime":4029.03,"body":"of these different labels that"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":4026.51,"endTime":4029.03,"body":"do get thrown around a lot in"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":4029.03,"endTime":4033.23,"body":"the dog training world. And"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":4029.03,"endTime":4033.23,"body":"where can people find you now?"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":4033.26,"endTime":4035.24,"body":"What are you up to? I know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":4033.26,"endTime":4035.24,"body":"you've got the book coming out."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":4035.24,"endTime":4038.45,"body":"So talk about that, and your"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":4035.24,"endTime":4038.45,"body":"website as well."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4039.41,"endTime":4043.46,"body":"Yeah, so this journey"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4039.41,"endTime":4043.46,"body":"kind of started for me, because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4043.46,"endTime":4046.13,"body":"I started to get interested in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4043.46,"endTime":4046.13,"body":"stress. And because I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4046.13,"endTime":4049.67,"body":"working with dogs that were"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4046.13,"endTime":4049.67,"body":"coming to me, kind of late"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4049.67,"endTime":4055.52,"body":"stages of behavior issues, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4049.67,"endTime":4055.52,"body":"had experienced a lot of stress"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4055.52,"endTime":4057.98,"body":"early on. And I knew from"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4055.52,"endTime":4057.98,"body":"graduate school, that stress"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4057.98,"endTime":4061.73,"body":"could be very, very damaging."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4057.98,"endTime":4061.73,"body":"And I felt like I just wasn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4061.73,"endTime":4064.1,"body":"seeing a lot of that information"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4061.73,"endTime":4064.1,"body":"out there. And when we talk"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4064.1,"endTime":4067.4,"body":"about stress and dogs and why"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4064.1,"endTime":4067.4,"body":"it's a problem, but we don't go"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4067.4,"endTime":4071.06,"body":"really, really in depth into it."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4067.4,"endTime":4071.06,"body":"And this is a topic I was really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4071.06,"endTime":4077.27,"body":"interested in, I naively decided"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4071.06,"endTime":4077.27,"body":"to write a book. And I think it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4077.27,"endTime":4079.58,"body":"took me I haven't gone back and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4077.27,"endTime":4079.58,"body":"looked, but I'm pretty sure it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4079.58,"endTime":4083.03,"body":"took me about three years, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4079.58,"endTime":4083.03,"body":"it's very heavily researched."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4083.93,"endTime":4087.92,"body":"And is you know, pulls from a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4083.93,"endTime":4087.92,"body":"lot of these different areas"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4087.92,"endTime":4092.24,"body":"that we've been talking about."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4087.92,"endTime":4092.24,"body":"And so I talk about the impacts"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4092.24,"endTime":4095.27,"body":"of stress on learning the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4092.24,"endTime":4095.27,"body":"impacts of stress during"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4095.27,"endTime":4098.42,"body":"development, the impacts of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4095.27,"endTime":4098.42,"body":"stress on fear and anxiety. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4098.42,"endTime":4102.59,"body":"then we spend quite a bit of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4098.42,"endTime":4102.59,"body":"time also talking about how it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4102.59,"endTime":4106.19,"body":"impacts the brain. And then that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4102.59,"endTime":4106.19,"body":"resilience components and how"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4106.19,"endTime":4108.68,"body":"can you build resilience? And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4106.19,"endTime":4108.68,"body":"what are the different factors"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4108.68,"endTime":4112.82,"body":"that affect resilience? And how"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4108.68,"endTime":4112.82,"body":"can you help animals cope with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4112.82,"endTime":4116.54,"body":"stress. And all of this, of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4112.82,"endTime":4116.54,"body":"course, really comes down to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4116.57,"endTime":4123.8,"body":"well being. And in my opinion,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4116.57,"endTime":4123.8,"body":"if we could improve Well, being"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4123.83,"endTime":4126.98,"body":"in our dogs, a lot of these"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4123.83,"endTime":4126.98,"body":"issues of aggression would go"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4126.98,"endTime":4132.11,"body":"away. And so we really need both"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4126.98,"endTime":4132.11,"body":"sides, right? We need people, of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4132.11,"endTime":4135.14,"body":"course, to be out there working"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4132.11,"endTime":4135.14,"body":"with dogs that are already"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4135.14,"endTime":4138.26,"body":"having aggression issues. And I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4135.14,"endTime":4138.26,"body":"think we also really need people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4138.26,"endTime":4141.23,"body":"that are working on that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4138.26,"endTime":4141.23,"body":"prevention side of things. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4141.23,"endTime":4146.69,"body":"that's what the book is all"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4141.23,"endTime":4146.69,"body":"about. And then I also have and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4146.69,"endTime":4149.33,"body":"probably, well, the book,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4146.69,"endTime":4149.33,"body":"hopefully it will be out by the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4149.33,"endTime":4153.89,"body":"time this podcast is out. It's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4149.33,"endTime":4153.89,"body":"called the stress factor in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4153.89,"endTime":4159.23,"body":"dogs. And then I also teach"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4153.89,"endTime":4159.23,"body":"courses through my website,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4159.59,"endTime":4164.75,"body":"which is science matters"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4159.59,"endTime":4164.75,"body":"llc.com. So there's two there"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4164.75,"endTime":4168.14,"body":"kind of two things that I do."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4164.75,"endTime":4168.14,"body":"There's I have a membership"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4168.14,"endTime":4172.46,"body":"program called research bites."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4168.14,"endTime":4172.46,"body":"And once a month, I present a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4172.46,"endTime":4178.55,"body":"webinar on a recent dog training"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4172.46,"endTime":4178.55,"body":"or behavior study. And I kind of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4178.55,"endTime":4181.04,"body":"go through it and I break it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4178.55,"endTime":4181.04,"body":"down. So it's understandable to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4181.04,"endTime":4184.88,"body":"everyone and I present it live."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4181.04,"endTime":4184.88,"body":"So people come you can ask"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4184.88,"endTime":4188.63,"body":"questions, we have discussion"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4184.88,"endTime":4188.63,"body":"about it. And then part of that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4188.63,"endTime":4190.91,"body":"I also have a podcast that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4188.63,"endTime":4190.91,"body":"part of that some of that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4190.91,"endTime":4193.64,"body":"podcast is available for free"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4190.91,"endTime":4193.64,"body":"but the research bytes members"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4193.64,"endTime":4197.36,"body":"get more of it. And then we also"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4193.64,"endTime":4197.36,"body":"do little like coffee break"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4197.36,"endTime":4200.0,"body":"discussions where we all get"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4197.36,"endTime":4200.0,"body":"together and just talk about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4200.0,"endTime":4205.82,"body":"out, we just geek out about dog"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4200.0,"endTime":4205.82,"body":"behavior science. And then. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4205.82,"endTime":4209.81,"body":"that's one thing. So that's a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4205.82,"endTime":4209.81,"body":"subscription membership program."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4210.2,"endTime":4213.56,"body":"That's a little bit sort of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4210.2,"endTime":4213.56,"body":"lower price point. And then what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4213.56,"endTime":4217.52,"body":"I'm working on right now that I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4213.56,"endTime":4217.52,"body":"hope will be coming out this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4217.52,"endTime":4223.88,"body":"fall is a much more in depth"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4217.52,"endTime":4223.88,"body":"course, that talks about really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4223.88,"endTime":4226.28,"body":"all the things we talked about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4223.88,"endTime":4226.28,"body":"today, and how everything is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4226.28,"endTime":4231.98,"body":"interconnected, and how stress"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4226.28,"endTime":4231.98,"body":"impacts behavior and how emotion"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4231.98,"endTime":4235.73,"body":"impacts behavior, and cognition"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4231.98,"endTime":4235.73,"body":"and behavior, and how we can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4235.73,"endTime":4239.99,"body":"combine all of these things to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4235.73,"endTime":4239.99,"body":"working with dogs, and treating"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4239.99,"endTime":4244.43,"body":"behavior problems and promoting"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4239.99,"endTime":4244.43,"body":"well being really looking at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4244.43,"endTime":4250.01,"body":"this as a really, in depth,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4244.43,"endTime":4250.01,"body":"holistic approach to behavior."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4250.01,"endTime":4253.58,"body":"So that is in the works and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4250.01,"endTime":4253.58,"body":"should be available this fall."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":4254.36,"endTime":4256.49,"body":"I am so"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":4254.36,"endTime":4256.49,"body":"looking forward to see more"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":4256.49,"endTime":4259.82,"body":"about that as well and the book"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":4256.49,"endTime":4259.82,"body":"and I'll be sure to link to all"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":4259.82,"endTime":4262.61,"body":"that stuff in the show notes,"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":4259.82,"endTime":4262.61,"body":"which you guys can find more"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":4262.61,"endTime":4265.58,"body":"about, Christina, thank you so"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":4262.61,"endTime":4265.58,"body":"much. I really enjoyed our"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":4265.58,"endTime":4268.04,"body":"conversation and I hope you can"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":4265.58,"endTime":4268.04,"body":"come back in the future."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4268.46,"endTime":4270.62,"body":"Thank you. I really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4268.46,"endTime":4270.62,"body":"enjoyed this as well and I'd be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":4270.62,"endTime":4271.46,"body":"happy to come back."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":4273.14,"endTime":4274.52,"body":"I hope you"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":4273.14,"endTime":4274.52,"body":"enjoyed this amazing"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":4274.52,"endTime":4277.28,"body":"conversation with the always"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":4274.52,"endTime":4277.28,"body":"insightful Christina Spalding."},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":4277.58,"endTime":4280.94,"body":"If you liked the show, please"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":4277.58,"endTime":4280.94,"body":"don't forget to subscribe, share"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":4280.94,"endTime":4284.21,"body":"and give us a rating and hop on"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":4280.94,"endTime":4284.21,"body":"over to aggressive dog.com For"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":4284.21,"endTime":4287.06,"body":"more information about helping"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":4284.21,"endTime":4287.06,"body":"dogs with aggression. From the"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":4287.06,"endTime":4290.03,"body":"aggression in dogs master course"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":4287.06,"endTime":4290.03,"body":"two webinars from world renowned"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":4290.03,"endTime":4293.18,"body":"experts, and even an annual"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":4290.03,"endTime":4293.18,"body":"conference. We have options for"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":4293.18,"endTime":4297.89,"body":"both pet pros and pet owners to"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":4293.18,"endTime":4297.89,"body":"learn more about aggression in"},{"speaker":"Michael Shikashio","startTime":4297.89,"endTime":4298.43,"body":"dogs"}]}