Tiffany Baker CBCC-KA, CCUI, FDM

Have you lived or worked with a dog who is blind and/or deaf? It can present a training challenge all on its own when we are working with a dog who has a disability. And when we also have a dog who has aggression issues, it can create a really challenging situation for both the trainer and the dogs guardian. Tiffany Baker joins me for this episode of Fresh Bites and shares her fantastic insight with working with dogs who are deaf and/or blind, while highlighting her experience in aggression cases as well.

For additional resources on helping dogs with aggression, visit:
https://aggressivedog.com

If you want to take your knowledge and skills for helping dogs with aggression to the next level, check out the Aggression in Dogs Master Course and get a FREE preview here:
https://aggressivedog.thinkific.com/courses/aggression-in-dogs

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https://aggressivedog.com/conference/

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About Tiffany:

Tiffany Baker is a certified canine behavior consultant as well as the founder and owner of Boss Babe Dog Training, LLC based in Dallas, Texas. She has been professionally working with dogs for over eight years. Tiffany specializes in aggression, fear, anxiety and frustration based behaviors with a focus on families with disabled dogs. Over the years, Tiffany has become a licensed Family Paws Parent Educator, received her title as a Certified Behavior Consultant Canine (CBCC-KA), a Certified Control Unleashed Instructor (CCUI) through Leslie McDevitt‘s program, as well as a Certified Family Dog Mediator (FDM) through Kim Brophey‘s Applied Ethology LEGS course. She is extremely talented in her ability to not only effectively modify behaviors and dogs but also provide tremendous support, compassion and guidance to pet guardians. She advocates for a positive reinforcement, science-based training style. She believes that these methods are not only the most effective way to teach a dog and handler new behaviors, but it also creates an enhanced understanding within the canine human relationship. With each dog and handler team Tiffany has the pleasure of working with, her dedication and drive to continue learning and developing her skills in the animal behavior field grows.

https://bossbabedogtraining.com

Transcript

Michael Shikashio: 0:02

Have you lived with or worked with a dog who is blind and or deaf, it can present a training challenge all on its own when we're working with a dog who has a disability. And when we also have a dog who has aggression issues, it can create a really challenging situation for both the trainer and the dog's guardian. Tiffany Baker joins me for this episode of fresh bites, and shares her fantastic insight with working with dogs who are deaf and or blind, while highlighting her experience in aggression cases as well. And if you are working with aggression cases, or plan on taking aggression cases as a trainer, or maybe you're even struggling with your own dog, we have a variety of educational opportunities for you, including the upcoming aggression in dogs conference happening from September 30 Through October 2 2022. in Providence, Rhode Island with both in person and online options. You can also learn more about the aggression in dogs master course which is the most comprehensive course available anywhere in the world for learning how to work with dogs, and help dogs with aggression issues by going to aggressive dog.com Hey guys, guess what I have with me this week, it's Tiffany Baker from Boss babe dog training based in Dallas, Texas. She has been professionally working with dogs for over eight years. Tiffany specializes in aggression, fear and anxiety based behaviors. With an emphasis on families with disabled pets. She became immersed herself in the middle of animal rescue community volunteering with several rescue organizations, fostering many animals, both felines and canines. This quickly grew into passion for the science of animal behavior. Over the years, Tiffany became a licensed family paws parent educator received her title as a certified behavior consultant canine, a certified control unleashed instructor through Lesley McDevitt program, as well as a certified family dog mediator through Kimbrough fees, legs Applied Ecology program, so she's very hungry for those letters after her name. She advocates for a positive reinforcement ScienceBase training style. And as Tiffany continues to grow, she is dedicated to creating a bridge of mutual understanding and communication with the canine human partnership. Welcome, Tiffany, I'm really excited to have you on the show.

Unknown: 2:14

Yeah, thank you so much for having me.

Michael Shikashio: 2:17

So I'm excited to be talking about deaf and blind dogs. And I want to I should say, deaf and or blind dogs, because you actually corrected me appropriately. In the beginning, when we were talking about, you know, Mike, some dogs are actually deaf or blind, not deaf and blind. So thank you for for helping me understand that far. But that is what's something you focus on, you have a lot of expertise on both the aggression side of cases, as well as working with dogs that are deaf or blind. So that's going to be the focus of my show. I'm sure it's gonna be super, super informative for the listeners here. So let's jump right in and talk about you had mentioned why or how dogs become deaf or blind, and that the trauma and some experiences they may have in those cases. So let's talk more about that.

Unknown: 3:03

Sure, yeah. So we have kind of the more well known congenital deafness or congenital blindness that dogs can have. And then we have the as dogs age, kind of becoming blind or becoming deaf as they get into their more senior age. And then trauma, right. So I am in Dallas, Texas, and I work with a lot of rescues in the DFW area. And we tend to get a fair amount of dogs that are transported from South Texas, many of which have experienced some significant trauma, and have sometimes led to there's some pretty horrific stories that I'll be sharing with you guys, unfortunately. But the trauma that some dogs endure that then lead to that deafness or blindness, which I I tend to find is much more difficult for the dog to cope with, because it's not something that they've had their whole lives or it's not something that they have gradually gone into. It's something that happens suddenly, and usually in experiences that are not so kind.

Michael Shikashio: 4:13

Can you think of a couple examples that you've seen in where the trauma has really impacted the behavior?

Unknown: 4:19

Yes, yeah. So one of the dogs and probably this is maybe one of the first blind dogs that I worked with several years ago. Her name is blueberry, and she had a really unfortunate incident where some it is said or we think that fireworks were blown in her mouth, which then caused her to lose her sight. And so this led to some sensitivities, I would say some, some severe sensitivities to hands reaching around her face, also some significant leash reactivity or a letter I just like to call dogs that have big feelings about things when they are restricted, but hearing things but not being able to see where they're coming from, and that kind of causing that frustration or insecurity of her her surroundings. So we had to work through quite a bit of some slow behavior modification to get her to a point where she was able to be safe in a household.

Michael Shikashio: 5:25

What an awful experience and, you know, awful situation, for I'm sure for that dog, and just how much you can just think about how much that's going to impact you know, how that dog experiencing the world from that moment, and how scary it must be to I mean, it's just all humans can do sometimes. And so I want to talk about two of the one of the things as trainers we don't actually learn a lot about nobody's really teaching. Okay, so you have a blind dog or a deaf dog or, you know, a dog with a disability, what do we do as trainers, right? And learning about that? Not much in many of our typical training schools or online courses, and all the ways we learn about behavior, we don't actually get much teaching about that, or education about that. I know that, you know, the first I think it was the first blind dog case I had, you know, you make the mistakes of like using visual cues over and over, because that's what you're used to doing. Or you're talking to a deaf dog. And they're like, sit, sit, sit, sit, wait, why aren't you sitting? And it just puts in your mind to like, Oh, that's right. You kind of feel foolish in front of the owners. And I've definitely been there totally guilty of that. But let's talk about, you know, for focusing on working with dogs that are deaf or blind, what are some of the techniques? I know, it's a broad question, but what is Yeah, techniques and tools you might consider?

Unknown: 6:43

Well, and then just to go off of what you were saying, as far as the feeling odd about, and I think that is a big piece of like, people tend to be weird with deaf dogs or with blind dogs, they tend to try too hard not to talk to a deaf dog. So then they're acting weird, and maybe not as fluid as they would be. And so I tell all my clients with deaf dogs, and I still do it, I talk to I talk to my deaf dogs, because I'm more natural, when I'm talking to my deaf dogs. It's what I'm used to. And then same with my blind dogs, I'm still going to use hand motions with my verbal cues, just with the awareness that they're only going to hear my verbal cues and not see my visual cues, because they're not the only dogs that I work with. So it's just what comes natural to to us. So Right. So when it comes to, let's just talk deaf dogs, right, we use a lot of visual markers. So some common ones are like a thumbs up marker, or a hand flash, which is just me kind of flicking the I know they can't see me but flicking the ends of my fingers out, people will call it like a starfish or hand flash. And I tend to find that to be the my preference. As far as a visual marker. It's quick, and it's effective. And then with blind dogs as well, were using just our verbal cues, which tend to be a little bit easier to and maybe some luring and things like that, that blind dogs are going to be more more responded to.

Michael Shikashio: 8:16

Yeah, thank you for giving me permission to do those things that I felt silly before. But it makes total sense, right? That, you know, if you act more naturally, and you're talking and you do things that are naturally coming to you, then your visual cues are going to be the same versus when you're trying to mask, you know, or hide something or forget to do something. Right. So that makes perfect sense. Okay, so we've got visual markers. You know, what about some people use vibration collars with dogs that are deaf? for various purposes? What are your thoughts on those?

Unknown: 8:48

Yeah, so and I know it's kind of a controversial topic, I have not, I've not had to use a vibration caller with the deaf dogs that I work with. And I think more specifically, because I do work with a lot of aggression cases. So I'm more worried about that startle response, potentially creating some sort of negative reaction or redirection from the dog. So I get a little bit cautious of using a tool like that. I do have some colleagues that have used vibration collars successfully with deaf dogs. They it just takes a really, really depending on the dog long time to really condition the dog to see that as a cue for some sort of behavior usually as like a redirection or reorient to handler behavior. And maybe I might be more, you know, prone to use that if I was doing a lot of off leash hiking and or just as like an added safety measure. I just find with the cases that I take and that I focus on and I don't typically use them.

Michael Shikashio: 9:50

That makes perfect sense. Because we really want to avoid any negative associations or pairing things inadvertently with our aggression cases. And so, along those lines, let's say let's use an example we're working in aggression case or reactivity case, you know, and we're gonna just use those interchangeably for the sake of this episode. Yeah, but they mean different things to different people. But But let's say we have a dog that's barking and lunging on leash towards other dogs in the environment. And the cues, what cues we would use to help that dog or let's say it's a, it's a deaf dog barking and lunging at other dogs in the environment. So walk me through some of the steps you kind of approach with that

Unknown: 10:31

case. Yeah, this is where I really got into using some like modified control and least pattern games with my def reactive dogs. And I actually did a couple of presentations on that for an conference unleashed and then at Pet professional guild, where I kind of with Lesley McDermott's permission modified some of the pattern games and like the look at that game with my reactive dogs. So I've been working with a deaf dog who is barking and lunging and other dogs, I might introduce some sort of like tactile reorient to handler behavior. So I just typically will do like a double tap on the hind end area. And I conditioned this prior to obviously working in the setting where there's other dogs present or where we're outside, even just teaching the dog that a double tap on the hind end is a reorient to me behavior. And then I kind of reinforced that, but then I've also built in a look at that game conversational game with my deaf dogs, where I actually orient myself in the direction of the trigger to give the dog the heads up that the trigger is in that direction. And again, these things are built up prior to those those contexts have, and vary under threshold and those situations. So making sure that the dog is not going to be startled by the dog that is there and making sure that the dog is familiar with understanding that my head orienting to the side equals There's something over there that I want you to check out, and then reinforcing the dog for coming back to me and moving on. So that's kind of the the way that I've modified that look at that reactivity game.

Michael Shikashio: 12:17

You mentioned pattern games do you have so you know, so typically, with some dogs, we might count, so let's say 123, good, and then reinforce, what do you do for the deaf dogs that may not be able to hear what you're saying to them?

Unknown: 12:31

Yes. So I do a tactile tapping, kind of across the body of the dog, this can get a little bit tricky. And I'm still kind of playing around with it from dog to dog, obviously, not something that we would necessarily be able to do with a tiny dog who's not not unless I'm going to be hunched over the whole time that I'm tapping on their back, but works well with, you know, medium to large sized dogs. And so in those situations where I'm just trying to get the dog from point A to point B, and maybe there's something triggering in the environment, I'm going to use kind of a rhythmic tap just kind of midline or kind of around the shoulder of the dog on one shoulder, mid back, other shoulder and then feeding. And it does take some getting used to for the handler. So definitely something to practice beforehand, just the mechanics of it can be a little bit tricky. But once you get it going it is I find it to be really, really cool to watch the dog understand that that third tap equals food is going to be delivered. And you get kind of that head coming around, anticipating that that food. It's it's interesting, too, because I initially started when I was building up that technique, I was doing a tap kind of behind the head of the dog like around the ear area. But then once the dog started to recognize the pattern, the head became really wiggly because it was it anticipating that food. So it became really difficult for me to continue the tactile pattern. So then I had to switch to the to the shoulder of the dog,

Michael Shikashio: 14:09

which isn't such a bad thing, right? Because it's still kind of accomplishing. Okay, you're getting there faster, without having to do them multiple times. So that's, that's really an interesting way of communicating with dogs. So different areas of the body could be different cues. You can add to the pattern game to it based on the location of where you're touching the dog. So do you see any issues with startle responses? So some dogs that may not like handling or touching from somebody that it becomes an issue in the long run or do you have other techniques for those type of dogs?

Unknown: 14:42

Yeah, absolutely. That is definitely something to consider, especially with deaf dogs. They tend to get startled a little bit easier. They're a little bit more sensitive to being physically handled. And so there are a fair amount of dogs that I have attempted to do tactile cues with that I've had to Switch routes in teaching because it just wasn't something that they were comfortable with and wasn't something that they were going to become comfortable with. For those, I tend to rely on some visual cues. So like a visual pattern that I might do for a dog like that, rather than tapping, I might do three steps. So three steps in my movement and then feeding. So something that's more hands off that the dog is going to have an easier time following without getting startled by my touching of their body.

Michael Shikashio: 15:31

Do you make those steps kind of like different or obvious, so differentiate them somehow from your normal walking gait and pattern or

Unknown: 15:39

Yeah, so I usually will let the dog know that I'm going to start the pattern by placing a piece of food on the ground. And then when the dog reorients up to me, is then my cue to take those three steps. So it becomes more of a voluntary pattern, right? So I take those three steps, and then I placed another piece of food on the ground. And so then the dog looks up and then I do the same thing. So it's a little bit easier for them to follow rather than just the three steps food. Yeah,

Michael Shikashio: 16:05

makes perfect sense. You're talking about the sort of heightened state of awareness and other senses when a dog has lost a sense of they can't see as well or they're not able to hear as well. So the argument is that it can be it can heighten those other senses where they're more likely to see things that previously would add would not have after they lost their hearing. Is that Is there truth to that? Or is that something you've experienced anecdotally.

Unknown: 16:31

So I don't know that there's necessarily a heightened sense of other senses. But I do think that that dogs become more aware of their other senses. And I think it causes us and it's part of what kind of drew me and to working with deaf dogs and blind dogs is the challenge of really being aware of everything that the dog is experiencing, and not just what they're seeing and what they're hearing, but what they're smelling. What they are the different vibrations that they're feeling, really being aware of like peripheral vision, stuff like that, that you're not typically as aware of when you're working with a dog who has all of their senses. Yeah, so to answer your question, I don't think that there's necessarily a heightened sense in another sense. But I do think that the dogs are more aware. And that can lead to the kind of, I think the biggest challenge that most deaf and blind dogs have, which is that sudden environmental contrast that creates those more startle responses. There's a dog that I worked with her name was rocket, and she had a really hard time adjusting to changes in her environment. She was a bull terrier, super cute and wiggly. But every time I would come for a session, it would, we would have to play around with the best way for her to realize that I was there. Because what they had initially done before we started working with her as they would have her go to her crate. And she knew that if she had to go to work create that there was going to be somebody new in the home and it was really, she had a really hard time she would come out charging, barking, jumping, overly excited, not excited, overly aroused, and would just pant the whole time, just heavy panting heavy breathing really hard time acclimating. So we started to work on some, you know, having her come to the door to greet the guests, like letting her know, hey, there's somebody here, we did a little like they had a nice entryway with a light that we would switch on when there was somebody who was going to be coming through the door, we would kind of go and get her and have her follow us to the door. And then we would let the guest in. And she seemed to have a much easier time with that, than when somebody would just come in the door and she would be sleeping, and then wake up and realize they were there. And it was she had a really hard time.

Michael Shikashio: 19:00

That's brilliant. You know, it's, it's because we don't consider sometimes that dogs that can hear and see well are able to pick up on the subtleties as something's approaching. So like the right person pulling up in the driveway, and then somebody knocking on the door, which is it's a pretty big event for a lot of dogs. Let's face it when that door knocking, but we have to remember that it's, you know, a lot of dogs they have that opportunity see the other dogs approaching from a distance or maybe they can hear those collar tags jingling from a distance, whereas the dogs that can't hear that it's suddenly gonna pair that's right in your face is right in that moment. And, you know, so do you find that some aspects can be very difficult to work with because the contrasts are so stubborn. And we can't necessarily add those precursors or those cues to say something's about to happen. And I have a follow up question to that too. Do you find it can backfire? on you, if you start adding in precursors that predicted negative events, if you're not careful about it,

Unknown: 20:05

yes, yeah, well, okay, so first claps repeat that first question for me.

Michael Shikashio: 20:11

So do you find like contexts where it's difficult? So as a trainer, you know, let's, we have our, we have our own set of issues, like, for instance, I try to, we're working in a city environment, and we have tons of sudden sudden environmental contrast, you know, so other dogs, cars, bikes, strollers, you know, people going by in a very tight environment. So that's one particular example of very difficult to manage environment. But then you add in a dog that maybe can't see your cat here. And you're now in those contexts, and it becomes just adds a layer of difficulty. But do you find that there's any particular context for dogs that can't see or hear that are more difficult? Or exponentially difficult?

Unknown: 20:51

Yeah, so I think that those city environments more particularly, I think, for blind dogs, because they're, they're hearing everything, but maybe don't have a grasp or understanding of where those noises are coming from, or what those noises depict for them. And so I tend to see those city spaces to be very challenging for blind dogs, I typically am recommending my clients kind of drive elsewhere to a quieter space, and to try to be as consistent as possible with the routes that they're taking. And then I think your to your other point with the the precursors kind of predicting a negative event for the dog. Yeah, no, I think that that definitely can be a thing. I think that it has to be handled in a way that it is a negative event, but with enough distance from the negative thing consistently, where it doesn't become something that causes the dog to become hyper aware of their surroundings and anticipation that something negative is going to happen. So I think we have to be very careful about that for sure.

Michael Shikashio: 22:01

All right, we're gonna take a short break. And when we come back, we're going to continue this wonderful conversation with Tiffany Baker of boss babe dog training. Hey, friends, it's me again, and I hope you are enjoying this episode, you may have figured out that something I deeply care about is helping dogs with aggression issues live less stressful, less confined, more enriched, and overall happy lives with their guardians. Aggression is so often misunderstood. And we can change that through continued education, like we received from so many of the wonderful guests on this podcast. In addition to the podcast, I have two other opportunities for anyone looking to learn more about helping dogs with aggression issues, which include the aggression of dogs master course, and the aggression in dogs conference. If you want to learn more about the most comprehensive course on aggression taught anywhere in the world, head on over to aggressive dog.com and click on the dog pros tab, and then the master course, the course gives you access to 23 modules on everything from assessment, to safety, to medical issues to the behavior change plans we often use in a number of different cases, including lessons taught by Dr. Chris popple, Kim Brophy and Jessica Dolce, you also receive access to a private Facebook group with over 1000 of your fellow colleagues, and dog pros all working with aggression cases. After you finish the course, you also gain access to private live group mentor sessions with me, where we practice working through a variety of cases together. And if you need to use we've got you covered. We are approved for just about every major training and behavior credential out there. This is truly the flagship course offered on aggression in dogs, and is perfect for pet pros that want to set themselves apart and take their knowledge and expertise to the next level or even for pet owners who are seeking information to help their own dog. And don't forget to join me for the third annual aggression in dogs conference either in person or online from Providence, Rhode Island on September 30 Through October 2 2022. This year's lineup includes many of the amazing guests you might have heard on the podcast including Suzanne co the air, Jen Shryock, Simone Mueller, Dr. Amber Batson Kim Brophy, Kurdish miroir, Laura Monaco, tirelli, Dr. Simone Gadbois, and many more, head on over to aggressive dog.com and click on the conference tab to learn more about the exciting agenda on everything from advanced concepts and leash reactivity to using positive reinforcement to work with predatory behavior. And if you like to show up your support of the podcast this year, we teamed up again with the folks over at Wolf culture for some catchy limited run conference merchandise. Wolf culture is known for their witty, nerdy and no nonsense apparel that was created in 2019. To spread more awareness towards the use of humane training methods. Their apparel is here to help you start conversations, advocate for your animals and rep force retraining in a different way. So don't forget to get your conference gear. It leaves the site after 1231 2022 If you want 10% off your order, use the code bitey 10. At checkout, that's bi t y one zero. All right, we're back with the amazing Tiffany and we're going to continue this conversation on helping dogs with disabilities. So we talked about deaf dogs quite a bit, but not quite as much about blind dogs and the mechanical skills and things that we can incorporate with training. He speak a little bit about that some of your tips and techniques for working with blind dogs.

Unknown: 25:34

Yeah, so blind dogs, I tend to rely heavily on just making sure that we are being as consistent as possible with their routines and things well, that I say is similar to my deaf dogs as well. But for my blind dogs, in particular, I tend to get the cases where the dogs struggle with going outside of the home, that kind of agoraphobia behavior, because there's so many unpredictable things outside of the home. So we do a lot of pattern verbal pattern games, a lot of the 123 stuff is really helpful a lot of luring when I am kind of teaching the dog different things, because they can't see those those visual cues. So using the food to kind of guide them into the different positions. There's a lot more flexibility I think, with working with blind dogs than there is with deaf dogs because we are so verbal, that it makes it easier I think for for the dogs to be able to respond to our verbal cues that we're offering.

Michael Shikashio: 26:41

Alright, so now you know, I'm going to ask the next question. What about deaf and blind dogs?

Unknown: 26:47

And blind dogs? Yes. So I do not have a ton of experience of deaf and blind dogs, I have worked with a few of like more of the like the double Merle dogs that have that congenital blindness and deafness. There is somebody that I follow on social media on Instagram, and tick tock her handle and I hope that I'm saying this right is down to earth dog lady. And she has her own personal deaf and blind dog, she's got a lot of good resources of using tactile things. So everything is tactile, tactile markers, just like a tap on the head as their marker. And a tap on the base of the bud as like a SIP cue she uses the dog between the legs and using her kind of body moving back and forth to get the dog to move with her is very cool stuff. So if you get a chance to look at that she's got some good resources there.

Michael Shikashio: 27:43

Definitely. And I will link to that in the show notes. All right, so let's let's segue to the aggression cases. And you have some you want, you can give an example of some of the work you've done. And the differences between just, you know, I don't want to call it justice, but working with a blind or deaf dog on teaching, you know, loose leash walking or some of the basic handling skills we're looking for. But we also now have an aggression issue. So if you think of a case or maybe you've used some of the techniques you've been talking about,

Unknown: 28:11

yeah, so one dog in particular, it was kind of an intro housemate dog aggression case. Winchester is the dog's name and she had some issues with kind of reading the other she was deaf. Okay, so I guess I should mention that right. The other dog in the household was a poodle Lee doodle mix of some sort. But they kept the coat very long, and the Winchester had a hard time hearing the growls that the poodle would give her when she was playing or overly excited or exuberant kind of doing zoomies, things like that. And so I tend to see some a lot of miscommunication between deaf dogs and Hearing Dogs, especially ones that maybe don't have clear visual body language that the dog has seen, and so has erupted into some finding. And so we had to work really hard on teaching Winchester some ways to come away from the other dog. We had to teach the other dog how to kind of like some flight cues to leave the area when she was getting uncomfortable. So there's a lot of added things. And then what I found really interesting with that case was how I had mentioned kind of not the not necessarily a heightened sense, but her sense of smell was very interesting in that she could be there was a period of time where they were separated entirely and so she could be in another room and the other dog Texas would be getting ready for a walk and she can't hear but she could smell something that then would cause her to get overly amped up whether and I don't even know what the smell was but it would cause her to redirect some of that over arousal to the other dog that was in the room with her. So there were some interesting things going on there. And so just lots of things that we had to become more aware of, to really set them up for more successful interactions.

Michael Shikashio: 30:19

Yeah, that's a super interesting case and one where, you know, you have to wonder how the dog is sort of sensing through their senses? What's happening in another room? You know, and is it the, is it the smell? Is it some other thing in the environment that they're cueing into? Right, it's kind of the cool thing about like, yeah, problem solving these cases and troubleshooting them, you know, I saw I was, we were talking before the episode started recording about watching this tick tock video about, you know, there's one one blind dog and one deaf dog living in the home, they have issues with each other, and the interesting communications or lack of communication they're having. And, you know, that's such a salient point you're bringing up is that it is often a difficult part is the communication between the dogs because they can't necessarily see or hear each other. And that's also something you'll see in more senior dogs, you see that and your work where older dogs starts to lose one of their senses, and then you have the complex starting to occur. And, you know, the old, you know, Wyldstyle was like, oh, it's, you know, eliminating the weakest member of the pack. It's often because of that communication deficit that's occurring. So have you seen that in your in your work?

Unknown: 31:27

Yeah, so I'm not as frequently but I do definitely see. And I think it's a combination of the blindness, deafness, and also just kind of getting older and having a lower tolerance threshold for more erratic behaviors. And so yeah, I don't see them as frequently, but I do I do definitely see some of that as far as the dog aging. Yeah.

Michael Shikashio: 31:50

Do you have any tips for that kind of case, because sometimes you're limited on the amount of time. And in some instances, it may make more sense, just for management for the duration of the time that the dog is going to be together, because you have seen your dog, that maybe their health is deteriorating. And it may not make sense for us to necessarily incorporate a robust behavior change strategies, management is going to do the job.

Unknown: 32:13

Yeah. And I think that really has to be something to consider. And I think it's, you know, like everything, it depends, and it's a case by case scenario, but management is definitely what I would recommend for a dog and just making sure that their space is respected, right, and they're enjoying the last time that they have and, and that we're, we're being respectful of the fact that they're having a difficult time with those communications. So yeah, putting up some baby gates, making sure that the dog has their own space, particularly resting spaces, I tend to find there's more of a lack of communication in the time where the older dog wants to just lay around, and maybe there's a younger dog that's bouncing around and not really paying attention to where they're, you know, so encouraging our older dogs to rest in a different room and you know, putting up a gate or space so that they aren't being triggered by by the exuberant other dog.

Michael Shikashio: 33:12

Absolutely. And I think we often have to give permission to our clients because they might feel bad and air quotes, or they might feel bad about separating the dogs when when they've been together, they've had a history of being together for sometimes years with no incidents, and sometimes, you know, explain that, that dog actually might thank you for doing that. Give me my own space, my own little private oasis away from the younger dog for these Yeah, when I need it. So. So if you had some one thing you wanted to communicate to trainers and pet owners that do have a deaf or blind dog that is experiencing aggression issues, what would it be? What would your takeaway be, or something you wish would get out there more in, in learning about this particular aspect of training can behavior?

Unknown: 33:56

I think that's a that's a good question. I think I would really like for people to really become more aware of their dogs and what they're experiencing, and that there are so many different creative ways that we can communicate with our dogs, I think that we get so stuck on when we have a deaf or blind dogs trying to get them. And this tends to be a thing just in general, but more specifically, I think when we struggle to communicate with a dog, we get stuck on the things that we want the dog to stop doing, without actually understanding why the dog is doing it in the first place. And it's not necessarily that your dog is you know, stealing all of your things and being a hoodlum. It is the your dog is frustrated and is trying to find some way to communicate that he's not had his needs met and he is needing an outlet for some of those these things to do with his mouth, right. So I I find a lot of the while I can't tell him no. So how do I communicate that? I don't like that he's doing that. Right. And I'm like, Well, why is he doing that? Right?

Michael Shikashio: 35:10

Yeah, it's a very important point you're making there because it's very important we from especially with aggression cases that we see the dogs senses are their experience and how they're experiencing going through life with this disability. Right? Yeah. And so yeah, very, very good point. So, Tiffany, thank you so much. Where can people find you? And what are you up to these days for your next projects?

Unknown: 35:33

You can find me on all of the different social media things. Everything is pretty much the same as far as our handles for things. So boss, babe dog training is our handle on Instagram. It is our Facebook page. And then our website is boss, babe dog training.com. And we are I'm, you know, working on growing the team that I have here in Dallas working on doing some more things in the shelter environments here. So yeah, up to growth.

Michael Shikashio: 36:08

Excellent. Thank you so much. I really appreciate you coming on the show. And I hope to see you again in the future.

Unknown: 36:13

Yeah. Thank you so much, Mike.

Michael Shikashio: 36:17

I learned a lot at this episode chatting with Tiffany. There's so many takeaways that I can't wait to apply to my future cases. And if you like the show, please don't forget to subscribe, share and give a rating and hop on over to aggressive dog.com For more information about helping dogs with aggression. From the aggression in dogs master course to webinars from world renowned experts, and even an annual conference. We have options for both pet pros and pet owners to learn more about aggression in dogs