The fact is , i had to first accept the fact that I had diabetes before I could begin to do something about it . I had to accept that I can't not be diabetic . That it's . This is what's happened . Now I have this disease , i have these limitations Doesn't mean it's gonna let it limit my life , but I have these things that I have to consider . I threw a temper tantrum of biblical proportions . I was like I want the doctor in here . Like I was screaming at people . I'm like I started taking shit off of them . Like I mean , i was like screw them out . There's nobody told me anything , like anything at all . Like it was the most random nurse who calmed me down , like I don't even remember what she said . Like some people were trying to threaten me stuff and I was like this is not gonna go well for you , like this is not . I am not of right mind right now .
Speaker 1Welcome back . This is episode number 145 of the Healthy Diabetic podcast . Before we get started , please remember that nothing that you hear on this podcast should be considered medical advice or otherwise . Please always consult your medical team before making any changes to diabetes management . Okay , let's jump into today's guest And actually , before we do that , i just want to remind everyone to subscribe and like the show . Leave a five star review . Hopefully you will like this episode . Hopefully you like these conversations . I'm pretty sure everyone that's listening . If you're continuing to come back every single week , you're probably really enjoying the conversations , which makes me very , very happy . So thank you for continuing to come back every single week . Okay , today's guest .
Speaker 1When I sat down and thought about how to introduce this individual , i was . I got stumped at first , because there's so much that this individual has been able to accomplish and there's so much that he has had to overcome . So here's what I came up with . Today's guest is with Nick Klingensmith .
Speaker 1He is a four-time cancer survivor , a recovering alcoholic and a type 1 diabetic , and , oh yeah , he wrote a book called Through the Fire That is basically a memoir of his journey so far in his life The journey through alcoholism , the journey through cancer , the journey through becoming a diabetic . The book is a will and testament to all that that he had to overcome through ultra endurance sports , and he's gonna talk about that in length . And he's gonna talk about in length why that ultimately became his passion and what he's been doing and how he prepares for these races . And when I talk about how he prepares for these races you're really gonna want to pay attention , because we talk in depth about the minutiae of how he prepares for these races which , when we turn that around into diabetes , we should be that prepared . We should have strategies in place to help us be prepared for our day-to-day with diabetes . So , without further ado , let's get with Nick Klingensmith .
Speaker 2Thanks , Ken . Thanks again for asking me to join you . Yeah , my pleasure . I did get to this in a couple episodes between then and now too , and I just I don't know , I just really enjoy the conversation .
Speaker 1So my name is Nick Klingensmith .
Speaker 2I am located in Seminole , florida , which is the Tampa Bay area . I wrote a memoir two years ago called Through the Fire , which is my story as the four-time cancer survivor type one diabetic , recovering alcoholic , got forinated discs , nerve damage as well as just , you know , a whole host of other personal demons that pretty much everybody carries with them . But somewhere along that way I discovered obstacle course racing and it literally and completely changed my life and helped me to take control of those issues that were killing me otherwise . So that's ultimately , you know what . What I'm about is trying to spread that message of the things that we , as diabetics as well as you know anything else that we think is holding us back that there's nothing that we can't do . We might have a more difficult time getting there , but I want to inspire others that they can do crazy things too .
Speaker 1So yeah , dude , i just when I saw , i think , a couple of your posts popped up my feed and I'm like who the hell is this ? And so I clicked on your profile and started just like scrolling through your message and like how , all the things that you have gone through in your life and diabetes , all this crazy stuff that's gone through in your life and the fact that you're , one sharing all of that and , two , trying to build this awareness that it doesn't matter what happens in your life , all that matters is how you approach it and what you take out of it , i just I think that is so amazing , man . Congrats on everything that you've been able to accomplish so this far in your life .
Speaker 2Thank you , it really was a choice .
You know , if you read my book , i try to be as authentic as possible . You know , as first person , and I mean I am naked . In that book I talk about things that I had not said out loud to another person before , and I had to because otherwise it's just a book about a middle-aged , mediocre , drunk athlete , you know , playing in the mud on the weekends .
Speaker 2If I don't tell the whole story , there really is no story , and so that's why , you know , i just really put myself out on the line and I talk about the emotional aspect of everything and how it weighed on me . And you know , friends might have reached out during my third , fourth , third or fourth cancer how they never knew . I even felt the way that I did because I felt so isolated and alone . And so , you know , writing all that was extremely therapeutic and but what it also did was it forced you to look at yourself and your attitudes . So if you , you know the language reflected as I kind of go through the chronology of events from the first time I get cancer , where I saw myself as a victim , when I , when I was diagnosed with diabetes , i was , you know , confused at first , but I had to go to ICU for a few days and then when I get out and I go to Walgreens to go get my first supply of insulin , i sat in the chair and I like I wept yeah like what was me , poor me ?
Speaker 2and it's like , almost like God said well , i guess you haven't learned enough yet . So let's have a lot more bad stuff . Keep happening and yeah all right . Well , let's see if you can screw it up on your own some more , and you know ? finally , i was just sort of forced to take a hard look at myself and realize that I was only a victim when I wanted to be , and that's a shitty way to live . I don't know if I'm allowed to say that yes , you can all right , cool .
Speaker 2Well , that's a shitty way to live and you know , that's a lot of the message that I've been putting out and if you , if you look at it and if you really think about it for a second , to like that's all self-talk . That's why my message is always almost on message , but it doesn't really follow a pattern . It's kind of like what ? what do I need to tell myself today in order to stay positive and get back in the game ?
Speaker 1mm-hmm , i'm yeah , man . I'm curious because you're talking about self-talk and you're talking about a mindset that a lot of people really struggle with , and really struggle with not just on a daily basis , but getting to the point where they can really be in that self-talk mindset . And I'm curious , like if that , just if that was something that just snapped for you and just started happening , or how you like worked to get to that point .
Speaker 2I had to learn and I had to practice and it's a daily practice . You know , it's something that if you take your foot off the gas for just a little bit , you're gonna go five steps back . Well , it depends on where you're coming from . I didn't . I've always been kind of a high-energy , high-tempo person , but I wouldn't really say I've ever been an optimistic person yeah , well maybe I have , i don't know .
Speaker 2But wasn't captain sunshine , you know I'd be the first person to complain about the weather and this sucks and that sucks , and because it was just so much easier . You know , complainers are always so much so more socially accepted and I really , you know so it it wasn't till I just realized , and so it wasn't till I think I realized what a poison it was . And it really started after I discovered Spartan race . Okay , because I had bonked pretty significantly during just a 5k and I just didn't understand why and I didn't know enough . You know , i mean I was 36 , 37 years old , i hadn't run in almost 20 years and you know I just started back up again .
Speaker 2So I started doing research and I decided that it was just I needed more mental toughness .
Speaker 2And so I started reading books and just listening to a lot of things on on mental toughness . And you know , if you list , at first you're like it took me a long time to realize the power of just controlling your own breath , to accept that's something so small that people have been telling you since you're a kid . Actually is true , you know . And so as I'm listening to all those things , you begin to hear the patterns and you know , as I think about it , would you hang out with somebody who put you down all day ? can you suck ? can you stupid ? can what are you doing this for ? you know why you wasting your time . You're gonna work that like , yeah , you wouldn't hang out with that person , so why are you gonna tolerate it from yourself ? and that's actually probably the main purpose I started doing those videos is . It's my morning positivity practice . I mean , i get up and I train , so I have an hour and a half where I am literally focused on trying to think of something positive to talk about mm-hmm , yeah , dude , that's , that's incredible , it's great .
Speaker 1I love that analogy because it really is . It's exactly like you say , of like we are . We have become such a self negative talk to site society and playing the victim and I know from experience myself when I was first diagnosed mr victim , here I come like I . That's how I lived my life for three straight years and in denial , the depression , like all these different things . And I love that message because it really it's really power . It really is very , very powerful of understanding and breaking through that thought process of no , i'm not going to continue to put myself down , i'm gonna . I'm going to continue to talk to myself and put myself up and put myself up on that pedestal and keep growing and keep climbing that , that mountain .
Speaker 2I love that now to connect the two you talked about . You know sharing the story and that's part of the reason why I have to . I read a book . I'm looking over on my bookshelf . I'm gonna get the title wrong the diabetic athletic guide diabetics guide to athlete yep , it's a great book those three words together it's gonna come up and the , the . You know so much of the , the medical and science and even sports related stuff wasn't that valuable to me , except to tell me just how nobody knows what the fuck you're talking about .
Speaker 2But to know I wasn't alone yeah and so you know I I rarely ever was on Instagram until I published my book . Like you know my Facebook I would post more personal stuff . Instagram is about this lifestyle and it's , you know , promoting more , promoting the book and really just this the sort of lifestyle and message and I was . I had never really used it before and then when I started following other diabetics and diabetic awareness like people who say social media has no value , clearly don't have diabetes , because I learn more from there than I ever learned from any other doctor and so that's where you know other people are sharing the message my message is a little bit different because I I lose you at the science .
Speaker 2I don't really listen to the details all that much . My thing is what do you mean ? you can't do that because you're diabetic , you know , and like in challenging those , challenging those assumptions and just trying to find ways to do things . I mean , the very moment I was diagnosed , i was still playing competitive beach volleyball , which is an outdoor spore , which is not in a controlled environment , and this was before dexcom to and trying to do finger pricks at the beach Like .
Speaker 1I can only imagine man Mike's goodness .
Speaker 2Like you just have , just have like a blood towel I would carry around , it was you know . But you work out a system and I'm like , okay , i just drink a gatorade in between games . And that was back then . And you know , it's just trial and error to try to find the things that can support the lifestyle that you want to live .
Speaker 1I Think that that , right there , sums up everything that I talk about understanding that concept of being able to Take the situation in the life that you want for yourself Not with the life that the doctor says you should have or society should say you should have the life that you want and and experimenting , failing , getting back up and doing it again and learning what's going to work . That is , i Keep saying , is like that our jobs is Diabetics and even you can argue our jobs as human beings , the , our only job is to figure out what works for us . Our only job and And once we can figure that out and understand that and clarify and also understand that , that will it will always be ever changing Our , our life is so much better , especially living with diabetes .
Speaker 2Yeah , the You know I I talk with fire , so it's and I often you know , if you ever look at some of my posts like not just the ones I my videos , but the actual post I talk a lot of trash against diabetes . You know It's part of my own like mental therapy , of kind of how I deal with it . But the fact is I had to first accept the fact that I had diabetes Before I could begin to do something about it . I had to accept that I can't Not be diabetic . That it's what this is what's happened now . I have this disease , i have these limitations Doesn't mean it's gonna let it limit my life , but I have these things that I have to consider , you know , and I probably tried to ignore those for a long time And I couldn't get anywhere . But once you accept what , what is it that you're dealing with Then you can begin to find How do we overcome those things .
Speaker 1Mm-hmm and find happiness in it and not can continuously fight against it . Is your head against the same ?
Speaker 2wall over and over again .
Speaker 2I mean yeah it and everything changes right . I mean , like Five years ago , i thought I had this shit together . Then I'm five years older , like You know . I mean , i'm an endurance athlete , like an extreme endurance athlete , like That's Not an easy thing to manage and you know , as you know and I think I heard talking about this With the , with the wrestler you know , consistency is probably your greatest weapon And that's a lot what I began to learn . And he talked about trial and error . It was right , after The Chicago marathon in 2021 . I was just , i Needed to take charge . I mean , i had gone to a new doctor , an old guy , old rushing guy , and he tells me , literally , because I wanted somebody who could work with me and be a partner on this , because of my previous doctor told me that you know , they're a carb , is a carb , and I should treat them the same when taking insulin .
Speaker 1Oh God , it's the same message that I hear all the time , dog .
Speaker 2Pizza are gonna have a rapidly different effect .
Speaker 2Yes like so and he argued with me . So I'm like , okay , clearly I get it . You went to the medical school 75 years ago and stopped learning , so let's move
on . So I found this other guy and I tell him and I'm like , listen , i just want somebody can work me and understand the fact that I don't sit on my ass . You know I run and I don't do crazy stuff . I only run like 30 miles a week give or take .
Speaker 2Like the rest of the stuff I do is like preventative , try not to get hurt . And Yeah , you know and believe so , as I'm telling them this , you know I just and I need someone to help me understand How can I treat my meals from on race day , because that's , i've got like the Monday through Friday down pack . It's just , race day is always a gamble for me still . And he goes . I don't think I can help you . I don't know anyone else who could either . He literally said this to me What ?
Speaker 2And so , yeah , i was , i was I mean you can talk about another time when I almost just wept . I was like I sat in the car and I was just freaking out because I'm like I'm trying to get help . I was in one of those situations where I'm assuming this happens to other people where every once in a while I think you just get like a bad vial or a placebo , or there's like a five to ten day period where things just go Hey , why are you , don't know why , maybe we're sick , we don't know that , i don't know , and But this is lost , was going on longer than that , and so I'm like I was literally like pleading with this guy for help , but you can't get it and I have that sort of like helpless feeling , like that's . I don't think non-diabetics understand that , because that's part of the life , to like how many times we have to call and beg for our lives To somebody at the insurance company .
Speaker 1Mm-hmm . Yeah , beg for I got , i need this , i need this , i need this . Oh well , you , you know your Prescription doesn't allow you to get supplies for another five days . Okay , what do you want me to do like ?
Speaker 2$2,000 will reimburse you and like cuz , i have that and Penny's sitting around , just in case . Yeah .
Speaker 1Yeah , it's just , it's so crazy , man , like that the whole system is broken . The whole system is broken . There's , i believe , that there are parts that work , but I know that things can be better on how things work . So , yeah , man , i feel you Let let's shift back , because I would love to hear a little bit more about your diagnosis and like how that all came about . You know what type of symptoms that you were having . Did you , said you , i believe you said you had to go to the ER , i mean the ICU ? I'd love to hear that story , if your country will tell that story .
Speaker 2Yeah , absolutely late 2006 I tore my shoulder playing beach volleyball and I was a little overweight at the time . I was like maybe 210 pounds , for which I wasn't a good 210 . So I was probably 20 , 25 pounds overweight or something . What are you weight now ? Probably about a buck 85 , give or take .
Speaker 1OK , yeah , so significant amount of body fat and muscle mass , yeah .
Speaker 2Yeah . So I mean , I was still fairly active then , but it just wasn't a good 210 . And after the surgery , though , I started losing weight And I started just getting real thirsty And I had to pee all the time .
Speaker 1This is your first cancer surgery . This is your first cancer surgery No no , no Shoulder , I just , i had torn my shoulder . Oh yeah , yeah , oh gotcha .
Speaker 2OK , i am Humpty Dumpty . That's part of the story .
Speaker 1You are Humpty , dumpty , i love it . Yeah , ok , cool , i'm on .
Speaker 2Yeah , no , I had actually it was just a repetitive injury from years and I had heard this . I have no idea if there's any sort of scientific medical truth to this , but I had heard that sometimes trauma could be the thing that triggers the thing for diabetes or something .
Speaker 2So I had the surgery in September or October , november , around there And by January I was 153 pounds . Oh yeah , here's what . So I could explain every symptom . I drink like two to three gallons of water a day , as it is All right , so for me to go like I'll get thirsty real fast . So of course I'm thirsty all the time . I had to pee every 15 minutes all night , but I drank four gallons of water a day . Right , i was losing weight , but I was eating at this new restaurant and drinking sugar-free monsters Like you know . All these things I could sort of explain away .
Speaker 2But in my wife at the time , her dad was a type one diabetic . I knew almost nothing . My grandmother was a diabetic . She used the orange syringes . I didn't really know much else besides that , but she was there for that And so she kind of knew . But I lost weight over Thanksgiving . I was eating ice cream every single day . It was awesome , right , and then . But I told her that if I get under like 160 , i'll go to the hospital or something like that . And I think I went from like 161 to 153 in like five days . Oh my gosh dude .
Speaker 2And yeah , no , I look like the kid who was wearing his dad's clothes , like when I would dress up for work . My cheeks were kind of sucked in a little . It was obvious . And so I went and they immediately , like I just went to a random , I didn't even have a doctor like a regular doctor at that point . And so , yeah , they immediately sent me to the hospital . My blood sugars were up over 800 . They put me in ICU , which is the weirdest thing , because you know , there's some dude who's like got stabbed in the bed next to me , Like , and he's just writhing in pain And I'm like walking around bitching about the food . Because I'm just like I felt fine .
Speaker 1Like , so I'm like .
Speaker 2I was bored So I took my cart and I would just walk around . like you can't do that . I'm like why not ? Like , i'm like , oh I lost my mind when they wanted me to use a bedpan because they're like you're in ICU . I was , like I'll go upstairs .
Speaker 1Yeah , that's all .
Speaker 2Yeah , i mean they had me there for about a day and then they put me into a regular room . I mean , i was there for a couple of days until , like well , they just monitored and everything And I just I didn't know What ?
Speaker 1did they give you any education or whatever when they diagnosed you And like what was the kind of the how did it kind of flow ? Like they obviously had to send you away with insulin and like tell you what it was and tell you you were a diabetic .
So this is where and this guy ended up being my doctor for a long time , and though I fired him at the end , he was good for a long time , but the story I'm about to tell you didn't start out so great . So he was on call at the ER or whatever , or wherever I got my room . I don't know anything . I hear diabetes . Ok , like I don't get it , so maybe I'll have to take insulin and can't have sugar . That's all I knew , you know , or like that's all I ever understood .
Speaker 2So this guy comes by and he's like hi , i'm Dr Kankarni . And he's like so your name is Nicholas , whatever . And then he's like I'm going to check some numbers , i'll be right back . And he's like OK , i didn't see him again until the next day . Wow , i'm not a patient man , uh-uh What . And I threw a temper tantrum of biblical proportions . I was like I want the doctor in here , like I was screaming at people . I'm like I started taking shit off him , like I don't know . I was like screw them out , because nobody told me anything .
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 2Like anything at all . Like it was the most random nurse who calmed me down , like I don't even remember what she said , like because some people were trying to threaten me stuff , and I was like this is not going to go well for you , like this is not .
Speaker 2I am not of right mind right now , like I was totally seeing right . It was insane Because I didn't know . Like I just knew all of a sudden like hey , you have to stay here , we're doing all this And I'm like for what , what is this ? Eventually . So he came back the next day And he was like hi , how are you ? And I was like really , As soon as he walked in , the two nurses were like just walked out the room .
Speaker 1Let me give you the lowdown in this dude .
Speaker 2So I started kind of laying into him And he just sort of took it . I kind of respect him for it Because I mean I really wasn't behaving And he eventually calmed me down And then at least told me things . But all he really ever did was tell me how to take insulin and give me an amount to take .
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 2And this could be on me Because , again , until really reading that book and getting on Instagram , i didn't have almost any resource for diabetic awareness and the things that I see and have . Now . I have learned so much from this crowdsourcing of information . I don't know if that is his job , like that's something I've been asking myself for a while , because I'm like , or is it like hey , you're diabetic , we'll give you insulin , and if you want to learn about it , here's a pamphlet . At least they could have given me the pamphlet . I don't know . It wasn't until maybe two years ago that I realized how much more information was really available . And it's on me too , because I never really actively went out and looked for it .
Speaker 1Yeah , in that situation . It's not your job , though , to have to go into scientific research mode . You're not in the right mind for that . A couple months down the road , when now your levels are OK , like you're doing , ok , like maybe OK now , now you go into scientific mode , But when you're in the ICU and you're being attended by physicians and people that know what the heck they're talking about , that's not the time for you to have to pull out your phone and , ok , what is diabetes ?
Speaker 1OK , what is a carb to insulin ratio ? What is insulin sensitivity ? What is insulin resistance ? That's not your job , that is their job . That's their job to say , ok , well , this is what you have . At the very least , at least , is what I believe . This is what you have . You have diabetes . This is what it is , this is what this means for the rest of your life . You can absolutely 100% live with this . People do it every single day . We're behind you , blah , blah , blah blah . And , by the way , we want you to see a dietician and an endocrinologist Done . That's the message that should be given to every single person that walks into the hospital .
Speaker 2Instead it's here . If you come by on Tuesday , you can meet the drug rep from this company , and they will tell you about the medication . If you come by on Thursday , you can meet the drug rep for this device , who will then tell you about that thing . Oh and , if your insurance doesn't cover it , well , that's a you problem .
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 2Now I will say this There is a big positive , obviously , of the technological advancements in terms of monitoring devices and so forth right 100% , 100% .
Speaker 2I couldn't do it . I mean I could , but it would be even significantly more difficult . It's not like people never ran marathons before Dexcom , but it's a life difference thing , right . However , i think it's made the doctors dumber , because here's what happens when I go to my visits They just want the little code generator for my in-pen or for my Dexcom . I'm sorry They only look at the last two weeks , which , i swear to God , no matter when I have my endow appointment . The two weeks before are abnormal . And I tell them don't just look at the last two weeks . I was sick , or this happened , or that happened , or my end . Instead they're like well come back .
Speaker 2That happened when I went to . So I ran the Berlin Marathon in September And that was when the hurricane hit Florida . My house was fine , but I lost power . But I didn't know . I lost power because I was in Europe , so when I came home the power had come back on . Now , post-marathon is crazy already . So usually I've run six . I can only say this four out of the five , four out of six times . Usually I'm burning .
Speaker 2I barely even need to take short-term insulin or whatever for the first couple of days And then sometimes , though , it's the recovery effect or my body's meant through trauma . So things are going to be spiky for a couple of days . Ok , that's fine , but I mean , it was already a little like this by the time I got home , so I didn't think too much of it on Monday , when , no matter how much insulin I took , i was 300 , 400 . Tuesday , same thing . And then on Wednesday , someone mentioned the power again . I go oh shit , it's all gone . Bad , you know , when I got it filled .
Speaker 1Two weeks later .
Speaker 2I mean , when I got it filled was that whole prescription ? I got it filled about a day before I left for .
Speaker 1Oh dude . So what happened ? What did you do ? What did you have to do ?
Speaker 2Well , first and foremost , i got on the phone with everybody to get my insulin which of course ? guess what I needed to refill every possible thing that could slow me up here , yeah .
Speaker 2I really try to spread this message of positivity and I'm continuously trying to improve at being a human being , but I have never once behaved well when engaged with the insurance company . I don't regret anything I've ever said to them . It was literally like I had to burn a building down , or at least make threats to do so , to try to get my insulin pushed through within that same day . You tell somebody that like hey , guess what ? I've been up over 400 for like eight straight days or something . I'm not medically trained , sir , and it's not even their fault .
Speaker 1They're not giving the . That's the messed up part , but that Nick is the messed up part .
Speaker 2They don't have the power to do anything .
Speaker 1Yeah , that's the messed up part because I have done the same thing you have of getting so frustrated and like raising my voice and becoming not a nice person to these Really really good human beings that work on the other side of that phone but their hands are tied because of policies . Their hands are tied because of laws . Their hands are tied because of all of these things And part of me gets it too because you're talking about insulin , something that you can 100% die from if you overdose . Right , you can take too much of it . You can have severe hypoglycemia and die . So I understand where the policy is the way it is , but there should be policies in place for someone like what you went through , and you shouldn't have to like plead and pull hair and like pull nails out of out of shit just to freaking get insulin . That's not okay And especially .
Speaker 2I mean the person you're talking to is remote . They don't even know who their boss is , and it's done that way by design , because someone like me , who has a special ability to Well bulldoze someone like that to give me the information that I need or to press the button that I need them to . They're like bro , i have an email address . It's all I got . That's literally all they give me . I work in three different states away from these people . I don't even know who they are . It's a part-time job .
Speaker 1And it's done by design right .
Speaker 2You have nowhere to go with it , So I mean that's part of the other side of it . Those things add up because you can pretend that it's just part of the game . When you're like I just spent 16 hours on the fully insurance company this week , How does that not matter to somebody ? That's a half a work week for some people .
Speaker 1Yeah And didn't get anywhere . And now I have to spend $3,000 on my prescription and then send in my receipt because they won't allow me to use my insurance to get insulin . God , now in America they passed that law and insulin is a lot cheaper , becoming a lot cheaper . It's a direction in the right way , but it's still not where it needs to be . But yeah , it's messed up , man , it's messed up .
Speaker 2It's crazy . I mean , that's part of going back to the original . See how easy it is to go down this rabbit hole .
Speaker 1Yeah , we are going down this rabbit hole right now .
Speaker 2Yeah , We're going back and forth and all of a sudden we're just hating everyone and everything . Yeah , it's so easy to do that . I mean I can literally feel so . I run by heart rate . I don't say I'm going to go run five , 10 minute miles . I say I'm going to go run 45 minutes , zone two or something . And so as I learn about those things , i pay attention to it a lot . But I mean I can literally sit here with like a What's your heart rate now . Right now 66 . 67 .
Speaker 1Okay , nice .
Speaker 2I'll tell you what it probably would have been in the 50s if we weren't talking about the insurance company , because I've watched that happen before . Like , literally , i lost my mind in my office too , in front of my guys . So that was great And I was like in zone three , like I thought I was like doing a tempo run . I was like , wow , okay , moosa .
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 2And so it's like those triggers are really It's important And I think that's why that practice of self-talk and even just practice of breathing techniques are . You have to practice because when you start getting into that red zone , logic is out the window .
Speaker 1Yeah , man , i love this . You're a big endurance athlete And I'd love to pick your brain and talk to you about this piece , because I know a lot of endurance people , a lot of athletes listen as well , and I think you can provide a big insight for your success with being an endurance athlete and living with type one . What's your regiment ? Take me through your schedule in terms of if you're three months out of a race , what's your regiment on your exercise ? How much do you implement endurance training and strength training ? What's your exercise regiment ?
Speaker 2All right , i'm going to do my best to keep this concise . Clearly , i tell long situations here . So my number one goal in racing the last several years has been to complete the Spartan Race Ultra in Killington . It's one of , if not their , toughest event , and in 2021 , i was in the best shape of my life . I was 42 . And I was you know . Maybe when I was 18 , i was a little faster , but I was you know . I just run the Chicago Marathon . I was strength training , doing all sorts of stuff , and I DNF that race . I missed the transition by about six minutes .
Speaker 2So , that's a 31 mile race . So I ran about seven hours and 46 minutes And I ran like 18 , 19 miles I don't remember the exact same thing And then that's it And that's the goal . And so then last year I broke . I broke my rib in June And then I just focused on running the marathon . So this year all roads lead to Killington .
You're going to see me kind of look over here . That's the race , i love it . Yeah , you guys can't see that .
Speaker 1Yeah , you guys can't see this right now because we're on audio , but my man , nick , has a ginormous whiteboard and he's planned out his whole entire schedule of what's going on leading up to this specific race . That is how you manage your life . That's that right . there is how you manage your life and you're successful as a diabetic and endurance athlete .
Speaker 2So what's interesting that ? so , as we talk about regimen right , i'm doing something a little different this year because I am injury prone . You're going to hear a lot of my story I got hurt doing this , i got hurt doing that , and so I really need to do it different this year , because when I busted my rib , that was mile three of an eight mile race I finished the race . It was . I was in the competitive age group division , which meant I had to do all the obstacles , all the penalties .
Speaker 2It was the most excruciating thing I've ever done . If you were anywhere in Ohio that day , you heard me yell fuck , real loud , and it was also the first time I had run with the words fuck , cancer across my chest . And you just can't quit when you're running with cancer across your chest . So the fact that I did that , though that pain , has been so burned into my memory that I never want to go through it again , and so I was never able to really get a diagnosed as to how I did it . So I just needed to like finally see like a , like a PT , you know , like training , and be like what's wrong with my body . So I did this full assessment of all these like corrective exercise I need to do , mostly posture related , whatever .
Speaker 2So I tell you that because my my regimen right now is this . I'm actually closing in on phase one right now . Phase one is I'm only running about five hours a week .
Speaker 1Okay .
Speaker 2So right now , monday is a run day . I follow a couple of different training plans right now and following one by a guy named Richard Diaz called training the dark side . He's a running endurance OCR coach and it's he does what's called like flow training . So it's all done by heart rate , and but it's time and heart rate . So if it's an hour run , it might be five minutes at this zone , five minutes at that zone , 30 seconds here , whatever . So Mondays I'm doing all these corrective exercises and strength training for about an hour , working on like my hips and restoring things that I'm doing my run , and then I'm doing my cool down stretches . Tuesdays are all my upper body corrective exercises that I'm starting to , and those are the ones that are most important right now , so fixing like my serratus and my rhomboids and shoulders and posture , and I'm starting to work back into pull ups . And so Wednesday is another run day . Thursday is another strength day . Friday is another run day . Saturday is long run day , though , and that's where I've been running two to two and a half hours , like to zone two .
Speaker 2About a couple of weeks ago , i decided to mix it up and I went over to the park , where there's this massive 60 foot hill , and so I brought my 60 , my 60 pound sandbag over there And what I would do is I would run two miles easy , then grab the sandbag and just do a half mile back and forth and almost a half mile , and I did that for two hours and 45 minutes .
Speaker 2So the but I'm about to move into phase two and I won't give you every detail . It's just that as I start to fix the things that need fixing , i'll be replacing those activities with more actual strength training . So when I'm really just in full time , like phase three training , oh also on Wednesdays , like tomorrow , i bring my ruck to work with my 30 pound ruck and at lunch I just go up and down the stairs for 30 minutes , which is awful . But as I move into sort of more consistent , it's basically I'll be running like four or five days a week , full out strength training , one and a half days a week , and then one day is sort of like mobility and active recovery .
Speaker 1Yeah gotcha , yeah There's . I love the thought process because you have everything planned out and a lot of people that even just sign up for some of these races don't have a real plan in place . They're just kind of okay , let me try it , which is fine , but I think that understanding this concept of being able to plan and periodize what you're doing is important . That's awesome .
Speaker 2I think there's something to it's why I'm doing what I'm doing too , because , like there's , you know , there's a couple . there's the elite division , where you have to qualify for . Then there's the age group division , which is the competitive division , and what that means is you're running just like the elites , but you're only competing for me men 40 to 44 . And you get a special medal , but in a high five . but that's it Like if you were to win which I'm nobody's , i'm not a threat to anybody's podium . And then there's open . So you know , there was 44 people in my division this weekend , but there was probably 3000 people who ran open .
Speaker 2I don't ever want someone to confuse me with an elite at like , and because it's going to be somebody who doesn't know better and they're going to use that as an excuse to not get up and do something . So you know , if there's someone listening now and they're hearing me talk about how planned out , i am right . I've been at this for seven years now . My goals have changed Like and so if you want to look back and see what my regimen was when I started , it was the same concept . It was progressive . What I did then is I just took that . I downloaded the 30 day plan that was on Spartans website . I took the same concept and then I just marked it up progressively for like another four weeks after that , you know , and that worked effectively . So , like anything , just like with our diabetes what's working , what's not , you know what's changed and how do I make it better .
Speaker 1Yeah , what's working , what's not , get rid of what's not and find something different to put in that spot . Yeah , i love that . What is your insulin needs right now ? I mean , you're a big endurance athlete . From my experience , endurance athletes have a low amount of insulin needs because they're so insulin sensitive . So I'm curious what your insulin needs are , and are you using technology outside of a CGM ? So are you pumping or are you MDI .
Speaker 2So If you would ask me this question back in September , right before the marathon , i was running 4050 miles a week . I was not doing obstacle course stuff , so I was incredibly consistent , mm-hmm . So my breakfast I would take one unit of Novalog for every 27 grams of carbs . For lunch , i think I did one for every 24 or something like that , like I don't know , but I mean it was pretty . I didn't need a lot .
Speaker 2However , right now , because I'm in this kind of thing now where I'm running one day on , one day off , like today , i I have the same breakfast almost every single day . It's a protein shake With and I did this by accident once it's got this like pro gainer whey protein . I bought it by accident but turns out it's like perfect for me Because I drink it after burning 1,100 calories , so that half a banana , some peanut butter , some almond milk and Have that every day . It's like 100 grams of carbohydrates , but once you learn how to dose for it's like I'm very consistent super easy Yeah except on the days , right now , where I don't run .
Speaker 2Now , if I was running for five days , if I was running five Yeah , five days a week , i think I would have slightly better effect . So right now I'm like taking maybe one for every 18 to 20 , but it's like today I needed more because I didn't run . Tomorrow I'll probably just one for every 20 and I am on the decks . Calm , that's this . This tape that you see here is how I race with it , with it door also learning , Like when the wrestler is telling his didn't come off .
Speaker 2I'm like Man . I lost one every time I went outside . He don't live in Florida .
Speaker 1No , he does not live in Florida . Interesting thing about that is I was really Surprised as well , because you think about something like wrestling , i mean contact right like here it off all the time So yeah , yeah , well .
Speaker 2So like I mean I used to an obstacle course racing , i had on my stomach at first and I would take it would come off on the walls and thing is , i Sweats like a lot or you go in water , so no matter what you do it So behind the arm , and then I I started out Where I just did this to . I mean I do it to secure it , but Now it's sort of become my race attire . Mm-hmm , it's also how I identify my I race usually raise shirtless like and this is on there And it's kind of what fun because some people know like , and then others like .
Speaker 2Get talk about a little bit and Told you that would happen There it is , Yes you're alive . Let me shut this door . Hold on . So as far as other tech , i Do use the . As far as other tech , i use the in pen . Okay and Yeah , that's it just .
And I don't think , oh , you know what I was prescribed . That's how , when I fired that doctor , he prescribed me I got the Omnipod , mm-hmm , but we couldn't agree on the medication .
Speaker 2Hmm , i'm like well , how do I , how do I dose differently when you know I'm eating a carb , like like quinoa on brown rice ? and he was like you don't ? I'm like , okay , if I take four units for that , i'm going to probably pass out because it could be so low . If I take four units for like a couple slices of pizza 20 minutes after I go to sleep , my blood sugar is gonna spike to 400 all night .
Speaker 1So I'm like , yeah , Yeah , so , but that's also because of the protein and fat . Right , because you're having that . You're having that latent Spike because of the protein and fat . Well , as well . But , yeah , you're right , like the , the carbs are not equal , right ? just because even if you look at a piece of pizza And then the quinoa on rice , like , even if , as an example , both were 50 grams , they're going to hit you at different times and they're going to hit you at different frequencies and durations . So the , the thought process is , you can still take for the 50 grams , but your , your pre-bolts , needs to be different . You might even big . If you're super insulin sensitive , you might even need to split up that 50 grams .
Speaker 2I think that's what I heard you say about . Again , we're . I'm sorry , i don't remember his name .
Speaker 2If he's listening , but , to the to the rest of . I remember saying the same . I think that was what you said or because that's what I've been doing now when I eat like and I'm still trying to figure it out , you know but if I eat it early enough , i Can do pizza just , or a heavy dish , a pasta , by just taking like maybe a third of it right now , and then I take like the rest two hours later , or something like that .
Speaker 1Yeah , and it the the splitting up is really difficult , and it's difficult in a couple for a couple different reasons . One it's difficult because it's it does hit you at different frequencies in different times . Also , if you're eating a different type of pizza and not the same pizza every single time , and the way that's processed , the way It's made , it might not have as much cheese on it , might have different Topings on it , like so all of those things go into how that thing is going to actually hit you . The other thing that People I don't think understand , when we think about Bolsing for something that's high glycemic , like that , is What was your exercise that day ? right , it's going to hit you differently if you actually went and ran today , compared to maybe doing some strength training or compared to not doing anything right .
Speaker 2Yeah , go ahead . I was gonna say you know something that I got to see the effects of this weekend . So you know , i like , i like the longer distance stuff . Quite honestly , i just don't like to run that hard , i really don't like feeling that terrible , and so I like running slower and longer . And you know , if I'm gonna run in ultra and my blood sugar is like 250 at the start , that's not ideal but I know it's gonna slowly start to creep down because I'm gonna be running at a more moderate pace . And You know , then I just got to watch to know when to start fueling again because otherwise it kind of sneaks in and then you're well .
Speaker 2However , this weekend was a Spartan Sprint , so it was about 3.2 , 3.3 miles . It was 84 degrees , 85 , 86 percent humidity at the start and my blood sugars because I timed my food wrong were 275 and spiking at the start of the race and I ran with my heart rate in like threshold max almost a whole time . So usually , you know , if I did one massive effort for like that for 45 minutes , that's one thing . But since I went out and did another , did another race after this one , not as intense But still I kind of figured . I would have you know if I run a weekend event . Usually I'd really have to take insulin for a day or two , sometimes three . I Had the off before after .
Speaker 1Before , after for after . Yeah , okay , cool .
Speaker 2Like when I run , like when I do this ultra in a couple weeks , and in Fayetteville I'm doing the ultra on Saturday and then on Sunday I'm doing two more races , so I'll run like 45 miles that weekend . I won't need to take insulin , i'll take my lung , i'll take my face Oh yeah , but I won't have to . I probably want to take nova log till Tuesday Wednesday .
Speaker 1So what is it ? What is your daily insulin consumption then ? like if you think about how much to see but you're taking and And your fast acting nova log . I'd be curious to know , like you know , if you're tracking that stuff with your end pan or whatever , like how much Your daily insulin is , especially on those races , it's probably cut in half at least .
Speaker 2Well , I take just Siba um .
Speaker 1How much to see what you take a day 20 , 24, .
Speaker 2Okay , what I will do to try something different this time is I'll probably take half the day before the ultra . Okay because I always , even when I manage well , the first half it's I'm chasing the . I mean I've run marathons , where I was in the 40s and 50s and just trying not to pass out . It was awful . Yeah , it's a good experience . Yeah , once you're down there , i mean it's Unless I plan on stopping .
Speaker 1That's just how it's gonna be like what well do you have , like gels or something , or something ?
Speaker 2Oh yeah .
Speaker 1Yeah , yeah . I was about to say like dang , you're just running that whole damn thing at 50 .
Speaker 2Oh no , i'll . So actually funny story uh , the New York marathon in 2019 . I ran it and it was like two days after Halloween . So I'm running , i'm running through Brooklyn and I got this like 12 inch bag of candy corn . It's like showin it down . I I had Broke my foot , like I had fractured my toe like two months before , so I was . I wasn't trained at all , so like my body wasn't her pick , i mean that was mile 11 and I was just like doing anything I could . I thought it was awful .
Speaker 2People like normally a Like honey stinger . It's a brand , it's pretty much as honey , so it it's fast acting . I've tried a lot of the different sports trails out there and There may or may not be better ones for sort of endurance fuel , but I have found that honey stinger was just the cut . I was the most reactive to the honey stingers . Okay , so I mean I remember having like those Gatorade endurance shells and those things go down smooth , but If I was dropping , i don't , i don't even know if there was sugar in there and the goosers I think they're too slow acting and also when it gets hot out It's hard to stomach those . So See , i know I , i like the honey stingers .
Speaker 1Hmm , have you ever tried . Have you ever thought about trying ? I do , you do . You Do you have like water on your light on a like bill or anything on you like as you're running knees , or no ?
Speaker 2It depends on the distance and venue . So when I run the 31 mile ultra and Fayette bill next month , i'll wear my hydration pack and I'll have to 500 milliliters flasks on me And I can fill those up at water stations every couple of miles to I It's for an ultra . I'll take my hydration pack because I'll bring everything you know , like I normally bring . I'll normally bring one gel for every 15 to 20 minutes . I plan on being out there . Wow . It doesn't necessarily mean I'm gonna do that , but I've I've experienced being without , so But I , you know , have some yeah .
Speaker 2Yeah , during a beast distance , which is like I have marathon distance Again , it will depend I'll probably bring like a waist belt and just a 500 milliliters flask . But I really , once you start doing this stuff , you learn how to buy clothing with the right pockets . You know , and I mean I hate carrying anything , but I've accepted that a long time ago and you know , like I said , if I'm going out for a Beast or something , you know that could be three to four hours that I could be out there . So I'll bring 12 to 15 gels Just stuck in every crevice , carry around there . 14 is how much Novalog I took yesterday , 14 units .
Speaker 1Okay , cool . So I mean , that is low man , That's like , that's awesome .
Speaker 2That's more than you know . If I were in phase three right now , where I'm running six days a week or at least five , you know probably more like eight hours with at least one , two a day in there , it's probably even less . It's probably like under 10 a day .
Speaker 1Yeah , that's yeah , man . I mean I'm typically between 35 and 40 is my daily insulin amount that I take as well , so that's interesting . That's awesome , man . Good for you .
Speaker 2Well , that's good , then See , running cheaper than insulin . That's what I keep saying .
Speaker 1Yeah , I do , but I just I think that , like we , those who don't exercise consistently , I feel like I'm missing a vital piece to the puzzle of diabetes management , because even you alluded to it earlier of the thought process of like your insulin needs when you're running an actual race for that whole entire weekend right Now . That's different than someone that just works out every day doing strength training or running or cycling , whatever it is right . But the thought process is kind of the same as , like , as you get into a consistent routine of exercise , whether it's 30 minutes , 60 minutes , whatever it is , your insulin needs change . So you know , like I think that's just a very important piece for people to understand , because it really is this thought process of we can lower the amount of insulin that we need to take every day and improve our sensitivity , which we're it's gonna make us healthier , just by exercising .
Speaker 2That's the weird finicky thing about this too . And you know , again , things I never really understood before , that you know there was a point where I thought , oh , this is fine , you just manage this with more insulin . But at some point more insulin is gonna require more insulin , as you know , and as you become less insulin sensitive , and because I've been cleaning up my diet too , that's the whole thing about this endurance life . Like I am not a health freak , i just I keep making choices that support my goals and their healthy goals , so it's like I don't really go without . but I mean so I looked up the saying . it was suggested to me called Viome . I don't know if you've heard of them , but got help .
Speaker 1I've used it before .
Speaker 2So I'm in like my second or third month with them or whatever , trying some stuff , but it is regardless of , you know , their direct impact
. It was just yet another situation where I was now forced to kind of look at myself and my habits And I just never quite realized how much King sugar was in everything , everything . And you know , it's one of those things where , because again , you just sort of get used to thinking , oh , i just treat it with insulin , right , the package says carbs , this , boom , whatever . Well , since I've been making a more , you know I'm not 100% . I don't try to be , it's not again , that's not why I do what I do . You know I do those things to support what I do , not the other way around . But my direct , active thing to try to reduce King sugar and the things that I'm buying and eating has had a remarkable and immediate impact on my bullet sugars .
Speaker 1Mm-hmm .
Speaker 2So yeah , because , yeah , yeah , Because you're not just talking with something like that .
Speaker 1You're not just talking about the sugar . You're talking about the impact on the digestive tract . You're talking about inflammation . You're talking about all of these other components that your body goes through when consuming some type of product like that An added sugar , a filler , you know whatever it is . And people don't understand that . And I love that you said that , because it's a message that we all need to understand , because the quality of what we are consuming matters . If you just ate pizza all the time , or you just ate like shit all the time and then tried to go to all these races , you would not feel as good as you feel now .
Speaker 2You know what Actually sorry , fudd .
Speaker 1No , go ahead .
Speaker 2Us because , you know , the first time I really prior to March of 2017 , I thought organic was just one of those words . All right , So I went to Cuba for about four days , me and my wife and a couple of friends . And have you been to Cuba ?
Speaker 1No .
Speaker 2All the good Cuban food is in Miami because everything they don't have anything over there . Everything was so taken from the garden out back . All right , everything was 100% organic and fresh . They had no additives , nothing . And we ate that way for like four straight days every meal . Good food , right , but like not filled with a bunch of nonsense . So , even though we enjoyed what we ate , when we came back , first thing I wanted was like a greasy , crappy pizza . I was sick . Yep , i was just , and like within hours I just felt so bad from how like I literally felt ill . I was like my God , like couldn't believe . You know , i mean , that's a rapid shift too from farm to cardboard with grease , but like it wasn't even a good pizza . But yeah , and it started to wake me up to the fact that , oh okay , i know what this means , like not jumping on a trend , i'm just trying to make better choices for myself a little at a time .
Speaker 1Yeah , that's great man . Yeah , it's . Your body had enough time to get rid of the toxins . It had enough time to get rid of the shit that was , you know , not good . So yeah , that doesn't surprise much , whatever that you were sick . Yeah , as we kind of close up here , nick , what's kind of some advice that you could give for some either new endurance athletes or maybe a young athlete that's just starting out , or maybe even an endurance athlete that hasn't really figured out how to manage diabetes and being an endurance athlete ? What kind of advice could you give that person right now ?
Speaker 2Well , if we can just play that disclaimer that you have on your show again right now , real quick . This is how I live my life . You make your own decisions , but number one is do it anyway , whatever it is . There are only ever going to be people who tell you that you can't , because there aren't that many people who come along and say , hey , here's how you do awesome stuff . So , whatever it is , do it anyway . There are times that I put myself in situations that I probably shouldn't like , but that's how I control , that's how I win . You know , that day , i DNF Killington . I still won that day because I got out there that day , and that's how I choose to live my life , and so that's one . The other , though , is absolutely , you gotta get out there .
Speaker 2The things I have learned from others is I mean , that's how I'm able to keep getting better here . I wouldn't have been able to make these decisions in my own or start actually trying to race competitively . It's a terrible thing to try to manage , and this isn't something we have to do by ourselves . This isn't proprietary information . Everybody puts it out there , and because we're all so different , any one person's regiment isn't probably the one for you . So there's a lot of good information . You know getting the advice . This is one of those areas where social media is your friend . Crowd . Source it from experts , from other people who are doing things , and then just trial and error . But don't give up . Just know that whatever it is that you wanna do , there's a better way to do it .
Speaker 1I love it , man . Good message man . I love that . If people wanna follow you , where can they follow you ? What's your handle ? And then also what's your book called ? And if someone wants to buy your book , where can they go .
Speaker 2All right , the book is called Through the Fire . It is available on Amazon and Paperback , hardcover and Kindle , and if you are interested in a signed copy , you can find me on Instagram , tiktok , youtube and Twitter . At Stride Motivation S-T-R-I-D-E Motivation Facebook author page is just my name . Author And LinkedIn . You probably don't care about . It's just my name as well .
Speaker 1Awesome man . You are on everything . I love it .
Speaker 2Just trying to put all the messages out there and you never know which one's gonna pop .
Speaker 1Yeah , that a boy man . The more the merrier right , the more the merrier . Well , thank you , Nick . This was just incredible . I'm so glad that I was able to connect with you and finally meet you in person well , not in person , but meet you and just hear your story and help tell your story , man , because you have a very fascinating story And I'm excited to continue to watch your story on social media . Everybody that's listening . If you're an endurance athlete , please , please , please , reach out to Nick , ask questions . This man is doing the right thing , doing the right things . Get his book . I'm gonna go on here and look at buying it myself . I wanna read it . I wanna see what this man is doing . So I'm excited to continue to watch your journey unfold , man . This is awesome . Thank you . Thanks for having me on . Yeah , my pleasure , man . This was great . Thanks everyone for listening and we will see you next time . I think he .