Interview with CW Gortner, Author of THE FIRST ACTRESS

Listen in while C.W. Gortner and I talk about his latest book, about the fascinating, larger-than-life Sarah Bernhardt. There have been so many great reviews, but I particularly loved this one: “A literal drama queen, the historical Bernhardt provides a great wealth of material—sleeping in a coffin, keeping pumas as pets, the circles in which she moved with the likes of Victor Hugo and Oscar Wilde—for the creation of a colorful melodrama, equal parts flamboyancy and pathos. Since Bernhardt loved to extravagantly mythologize her own story, she would doubtless delight in Gortner’s first-person fictionalization of her extraordinary life.”—Booklist What's not to like?

Transcript

Susanne 0:29

I am so thrilled to be here today with CW. Gorner otherwise known as Christopher, who is a USA today, bestselling author and an international bestselling author of historical fiction. And. One of my personal favorite authors of historical fiction. So how are you today, Christopher?

Christopher 0:51

I'm doing well. Thanks. Thanks for having

Susanne 0:52

me. It's always a pleasure. I'm it's been a long time. but yeah, so your most recent book, which I read and of course absolutely loved is, the first actress. Can you talk a little bit about what led you to write about Sarah Bernhardt and how that process went?

Christopher 1:13

she's always been someone I've been interested in like my grandmother and my grandfather and Spain were both theater actors. My grandfather was actually a really well known movie actor as well in Spain. And so I grew up hearing stuff. Like don't be a bird heart when I was too dramatic and. I've just always been interested in theater and enacting in general because it's, it runs in my family and she was always known to me. Yeah. And as I got older, I heard more stories about her legendary exploits. and I always thought, she'd make a great character for a novel. And as my career. Has gone on. And I branched out from, I started writing about Renaissance era Queens. I started exploring different eras and different kinds of women. She came up as a subject. I really thought I'd like to explore. And, after the success of numb was El Chanel, which where I branched out into a different century and a different type of woman, the doors opened a little bit for me to do more of it. And she just came up when I proposed. A subject after Roman off that Burrhus, my editor really liked the idea of a Sarah Bernhardt novel. And so I had to decide what I wanted to do with the story cause she led him yeah. Full and big life. And so I had to figure out where I wanted to find the arc in the story. And I thought how she became famous was really fascinating because of the year she lived in and the challenges she faced. And her rise to fame in the theater. it kinda tackled a bunch of different issues that I'm always interested in. women empowerment, women's rights. single motherhood, there was just so much into the story that I thought would be interesting to explore. And that's how the book was born.

Susanne 2:56

Yeah. I really appreciated that actually about the book that you took on her early life and before she was this larger than life figure. And, and that really worked for me. So I was grateful to have that. and. I love Sarah Bernhardt. I've read, I love Oscar Wilde, I've read biographies and everything. And she comes up with all of that. And, and he isn't a figured until later in the book when he's actually, when she actually meets him when she goes to London. But, one of the things that I found absolutely endearing was her whole love of animals. Her whole thing.

Christopher 3:35

She loved the animals.

Susanne 3:38

How did you research that? And what

Christopher 3:41

is that? A lot of it comes up in her biographies. There's mentions of, her menagerie of animals. And, it's definitely, always brought up. And so I wanted to do a little more exploring of that. Cause it's mentioned in the biographies, but it's not explored in depth. And so in one, Sort of doing research archival research, not quite remember where I found this, but I read that she had offered to rescue this Puma Cub from the zoo in Paris, because after the siege, of course, many of the animals, including two very beloved elephants had been slaughtered for me because everybody was starving to down. And the zoo of the two year was in ruins and this little Puma, Cobb had been orphaned and. The zookeeper was thinking about putting it down or selling it because he couldn't maintain the zoo. And Sarah impulsively offered to take it into her house and take care of it. And I was like, really I'll prove a comp, this is only something Sarah Bernhardt would do. She did this. And she had this Puma and I thought, wow, what great anecdote for the book? I couldn't find out more than that. I don't know how the Puma ended up. but I, that the pool of features in the book. And then I also read that when she was in London, she bought these two, this cheetah. Out of the sky was an exotic breeder and she let it loose in Hyde park to go hunting really actually got a citation for it.

Susanne 5:11

Yeah.

Christopher 5:16

Is really well known for rescuing dogs from the street and letting them run around her salon. And, she had cats and birds and. All kinds of animals. So it was something she loved. And I thought it was a great addition to the story to have this with a lot of it. she had a very difficult childhood in a difficult relationship with her family. And so I think animals gave her that sort of unconditional. Sense of family that she always was seeking in her life.

Susanne 5:46

Yeah, it was just charming to have them in there. you mentioned something in talking about that you're interested in all these women's issues and as I'm I, one of the things that struck me a lot when I read, the first actress is that she was unapologetic. About her past and her, the fact that she had this illegitimate child, and this is at a time when morals were pretty, it was Victor, Victorian era in London,

Christopher 6:18

for the most part she lived, most of her rise to fame was during the late Victorian era. first of all, she was very unconventional. Her mother worked as a cortisone, not as, Paris was knit, this is the era of the cortisones. And it's one of the things I've tried to meet to writing about the book it's in Europe, Paris, that I really find fascinating this era, when all of these women who couldn't find work cause really women, there were very little options for women. As far as employment goes. you could get married, you could be a seamstress, It could be a whore that courtesans were this different ilk of women. They had to train very carefully because it was all about entertaining men in a salon. And, you had to be as skilled outside the bedroom as you were inside of it to maintain a clientele. And it was a much more sophisticated form of prostitution and. Though Sarah's mother wasn't highly successful at it. There were very, there were several women that became very famous as partisan. So dozens were not poorly regarded is some, one of the things I found out in my research, they were an accepted part of society. the wives of bagging, visiting cortisones, wherever he used, they weren't received in high society, but they were very much a part of the landscape. And Sarah probably wouldn't have so much trouble to that past as she would have an Elsa. We have to bear in mind too, that today actors are, the epitome of glamour and social height in our culture and moneymakers. But at the time that Sarah was an actress, actors were less well-regarded than artisans received. And society actors were view. It was considered a very low class way to make a living. So she would have had more trouble being accepted as an actress than she would have been as accord as that. And that's one of the dilemmas I try to drive in the book when she decides to become an actress. It's one of the chief obstacles with her mother, chief reasons of friction. My mother wants her to continue the family trade because it's more lucrative and it's a more safe path for her. And choosing to be an actress is extremely risky and controversial. very few women succeed as doctors and most actresses in Paris at the time they doubled as cortisones because actresses had to provide their own makeup. Oftentimes they have to pay for their own costumes. It wasn't, it wasn't an easy way to make a living. So many of them had patrons, And so Sarah apologetic newness strikes us today as being very, I'm on guard and forward because we don't have the same view of prostitution that they get at that time. but for her, it wouldn't have been the mentioned of a child on the other hand was quite unusual. partisans. If they had a legitimate children and it was inevitable. birth control was dicey at best at this time. they shuffled off their children to be educated outside if they wanted to keep them in the country much does Sarah was raised, they were given away to an orphanage. there was just no way four quarters into, to be a mother and maintain her livelihood. How Sarah's mother behaves in the book strikes us as extremely cold today, but it was not uncommon for the era at all. Sarah's decision to keep the child and to raise it on her own was extremely amusing. but she did it. And I think, again, it's one of this psychological need that she has because as a child, she always felt unwanted. And so I think in a way, she didn't want to do that to her child. It would have been the easiest route. she was even sent away. She got assistance to go away to Belgium, to, to have her pregnancy. And there was a complete opportunity to have the child and leave it there with a very nice couple that wanted to adopt it. Instead she chose to keep the job.

Susanne 10:24

yeah. That really? Yeah, that really struck me too. And, it's one of the things that not just humanizes her, but makes her someone you really want to admire rather than, this like a really. Flamboyant personality that she is how she's often represented in, your fiction or whatever. Yeah. it's very different.

Christopher 10:45

Oh, my novels is that, these women come with legends attached to them and, it's always wonderful. And as an, as a novelist it's I was very tempting to say, I'm just going to go with the legend. Cause this is a larger than life character, they'll just be, but I try to. To find the human being underneath the legend. Cause legend is often developed years later, sometimes during a person's lifetime in Sarah's case during her lifetime. And she played it up as she got older, sometimes after their death, but they're never quite what their legend is. they're human beings. They're, they suffer. they have the same challenges and troubles and toils as all the rest of us. And so. With Sarah. I wanted to define that core, you know, that was underneath the extravagance and the centricity, the sleeping and the cough and the wearing a that go ahead. And she did to get attention. There's still this young girl who never felt loved, she was, has been very, I don't know, thoughts to escape her fate and I've found that a much more interesting character. to portray. it's always interesting to dig underneath the legend and find out what gave rise to it. I always find that much more fascinating.

Susanne 11:57

yeah. and that's also, that's what powers a narrative really is. What's going on underneath. What's why everything is really happening. And you're so good at making that really. I just was turning the pages like crazy. I really, I needed to keep going through the book, which is always the case. and, something that occurred to me when you were talking about the aesthetic of the cortisones and everything, there's a, there's definitely an echo of the geisha culture in that.

Christopher 12:27

Yes.

Susanne 12:28

Yeah.

Christopher 12:29

Very much Yeah. It's the same sort of situation, it's a social necessity. it wasn't shuffled away, into a corner and hidden. It was, it found its proper place and it was nurtured in a way that assisted the culture

Susanne 12:44

and a lot of training involved too, a lot of training,

Christopher 12:47

of course, then you had to succeed. you had to know the language involved in order to attract a suitor. You got to know. What to do once you've had them. you had a lot of competition. many girls flocked to Paris seeking this out very opportunity. there was always someone younger and hungry or right behind you. The most successful part is really knew how to navigate it. And it involved a great deal of social skill. some of the most successful quarters ins were highly skilled socially and they were charming and they were excellent. that's what kept the men coming the bedroom. Could attract for only so long. And so they had to have other means to keep these men, cause this was the way they lived. They were supported by other patrons, that came and saw them. And they had salons where they entertained writers and artists. So that was always really fascinating to me too. A lot of times that a new writer or a budding sculptor or painter, oftentimes the way they found their way to success in Paris at this in the Sierra was through recorders in salon. Let's do being introduced to the salon by a cortisone and being patronized by her, and then being seen by her rich clients and getting commissions that are Jumanji is so famous to us for the novels that kind of the Monte Cristo or the, the hunchback of Notre Dame. He was well known for patronizing courtesans throughout his life and was a client of Sarah's mother.

Susanne 14:14

Yes.

Christopher 14:15

Just how it gets to know Sarah.

Susanne 14:18

Yes. So what was your favorite thing you learned when you were researching Sarah Bernhardt for this book?

Christopher 14:29

let me see total, it's hard to pick one favorite.

Susanne 14:33

We'll name a couple then. Yeah.

Christopher 14:36

With some characters, I write about a novel. I always say this in my interviews. I, you know, it's never about my judgment of the character. The moment I start judging a character, then the novel ceases to be about her. And it starts to be about my judgment and some characters. I like more than others just, they're more like me and I really got along. I love her love of animals. I share that very deeply. And most of the characters I write about. Animals show up in the book because they usually, I find not that I'm deliberately looking for character that Lowes animals, but somehow it always comes up that particular character likes animals. I loved her. My favorite thing about her was her not caring, what people thought sort of her. Her daring to be herself, even when she was being told, it was too much too extravagant, the way she dressed, the way she presented herself. I th that tenacity, that adherence to her vision of herself was something I really loved. It was my favorite thing about her. I didn't know that so much of what we know about Serber and art today, the legend, it was self-created. Deliberately built this image of herself, but it also, it wasn't calculating. it was innate in her. she was a really talented painter. She's was a very talented sculpturist. She could have gotten in any number of directions. clearly she got hit with the pretty stick, as far as artistic talent goes. her skull today or sculptures are still exhibited or some of her paintings. Yeah, she had, and yet she chose it's typical path, which was on the stage. And yet. None of it is cultivated. It's all innate. She's going with her gut and many chances she stumbles and she falls, but she gets right back up. And I think that was my favorite thing about her, that this isn't someone who. The set out, this is how I'm going to portray myself in order to get this way. She stumbles her way towards it. And I always loved that when someone stays true to themselves and find success. and that was, I think my favorite thing about it was her tenacity.

Susanne 16:44

Yeah. Yeah. And she's also, she seemed so genuine in terms of, her kind of evolving sexuality and the fact that she was also, she portrayed Hamlet, right? Didn't she. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Which is like the opposite of, unless you're doing a trouser role in a, in an English pantomime or something like that, it's the opposite of what originally happened would have been Juliet would have been a man or something like that. Really good

Christopher 17:14

at playing man. she got her first success on the stage playing a minstrel in the us in a small unknown one act play that just became incredibly successful. Playing a little, a Florentine minstrel. And later on later, she debuted Hamlet on the stage in London. It was very successful.

Susanne 17:34

She must have done ham. Did she do Hamlet in English or French?

Christopher 17:38

She didn't have it in French front sheet. She never spoke English very well. When she came to America to perform, it was always in French and audiences went nuts for her anyway. and this was before the era of subtitles and all that languages. that's what I always loved when I went here and taught people, talk about her. I'm like, she's very French and she was innately French and everything she did.

Susanne 18:06

It's so interesting because

Christopher 18:08

outside of France that people have adopted her internationally.

Susanne 18:12

It's so interesting because the history of Shakespeare in France, one of the first things that happened was that the English actress, Harry Smithson came over and perform Shakespeare in English and. Audiences went wild, even though they didn't understand, they didn't understand exactly what you're saying. This is strange. It's always fascinated me. that thing about what, watching something, watching an actor perform in a language you don't actually understand. It reminds me of, I saw Curacao as the guide on TV when I was in Sweden, in Japanese with Swedish subtitles.

Christopher 18:54

Yeah, it's the same thing. I said, you don't have that in these days when Sarah was performing, many of the upper classes spoke French. languages were highly valued and many people spoke French. but Sarah was very much an equal opportunity. actress, she believed that theater should be accessible to everybody. So, you know, People that came in off the street to see her wouldn't have spoken a word of French.

Susanne 19:20

And yet I

Christopher 19:21

think the power of her acting was such that she could convey the drama even to people that understand what she was saying.

Susanne 19:27

Yeah. God, what, wouldn't it be wonderful to be able to see that?

Christopher 19:33

Yeah, there are fragments of her. Bill. She, she ventured into film when it was just starting out. And there's that stat fragments of some of her performances that you can find. I found a couple archives and I think there's a couple online.

Susanne 19:47

I think I've seen them, but somehow that it doesn't really, obviously

Christopher 19:51

we really capture her because it's, and it's very mannered and it's very early filming. Today. She is very mannered by our standards of acting, but at the time when she was acting, she was revolutionary for how she approached character, her refusal to play by the rules of the theater of that time. she's completely in character. An actress in those times, didn't do that. It was a cult of personality to be a successful actor. And so you always wanted that to come through even before the character. It's our most successful actors of the era, like Talima, who was Napoleon's favorite actor was very well known for standing at the edge of the stage. And declaiming directly to the audience and being very much himself, no matter who he was playing. And Sarah was complete opposite. She didn't want you to see Sarah. She wanted you to see the character, which is what the standard of acting today. So that standard, she was one of the first to do that.

Susanne 20:54

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I was just thinking about this whole idea when she went to London and she would be invited to private parties too, to give a scene or something like that. do people ever do that nowadays? I would just love it

Christopher 21:14

nowadays. It's the equivalent. I don't know. You be paying$4 million for Beyonce to sing at your wedding and things. Some celebrities do that, they get paid a lot of money to, or they do commercials. Yeah. a lot of actors had to supplement their incomes. And so if you were well-established then you declaimed and salons and, and it was a way to supplement your income. they were paid engagement. you were paid for your time. And so Sarah, when she brought, went to London, had a very extensive schedule drawn up by this entrepreneurial American she had met, who was trying to launch her internationally. Eventually she did get that she'd locked herself international and she had her own theater company. That was the challenge for writing the book was that I could have gone on and on forever somewhere, I have a word count that I can't bypass. So I had to end the book where I did, which is right as she becomes famous.

Susanne 22:07

Yes. And I think that was a really good decision too, because sometimes with these people. Sometimes their lives trail off or not great stuff happens. And then you have to figure out how to, how to make that, how to make that satisfying to a reader. So that was, I was glad she ended on a high note.

Christopher 22:29

she has an incredible career, but the rest of her life involved, Jimmy, she traveled and toured extensively with a comfort with her company. So I would have had to have switched the entire cast of characters, everything changes, and it works in a novel in real life. but it doesn't work so great and novel when you have to, when you're ending, nearing the end at 300 pages or 400 pages, and you suddenly have a whole new cast of characters come in a whole new story. So my challenge always is the novelist. When I'm taking on these real life, people is I have to find an arc within their life that I can portray. Yeah, I have to find a story. Start some work, a story can add. And was Saudi art most naturally seem to be at that point, I could have also just as easily as started once she was famous and then followed her through her drawers. But you would miss all the stuff that makes her who she is. And I'm always interested in someone becomes who they eventually are. And that's what I explore.

Susanne 23:32

Yeah, it works. It definitely works. something that I really thought was very clever and really good is that the, that period in the life, during her life, during the siege, when you know, there's battles going on and everything that could have been this big, huge. Part of the book, it's the action and the thing, but it was like, it was a comparatively small part. And, and I liked it that's so much because we got through that and understood the, The import of it and how it affected her, but you really stayed focused on her rather than getting distracted by all the interesting historical stuff. Yeah.

Christopher 24:13

the seven day siege of Paris by the Prussians is, was brutal. And, they went, no wonder what, nine months of probation, they were blockaded. These people starve to death, literally starve to death counts of people tearing the bark off the trees to eat. Cause there was nothing to eat. I mentioned the elephants being slaughtered and Sarah elected to stay in Paris when everybody had fled and convert the theater where she had been headlining into an infirmary for wounded soldiers. And it made her a patriotic symbol in France, all her life. She was viewed as an in stream Patriot because she stayed put. And this is the end of the Napoleonic era. This is the last Napoleon to sit on the Imperial throne. France never has an emperor after this. So she witnesses this end of an era and it also marks a change in her own life in that. When the siege is over, she has to rebuild everything she had built before the theaters were decimated. The populace was impoverished. There was a new government. No one kind of knew what Paris was in. Merlin's no many Housmans. Napoleon's chief architect, Houseman who redesigned the parents that we still see today. they read, they rebuilt it, they fixed it. But much of what he had done was ruined by the siege. they were blowing, shooting cannon into the city. So what I really wanted to focus on was the transition. This is a transitional Europe for Sarah. she finds a cause that's higher than herself, which is this infirmary. She survives this horrific siege and experiences, hunger and privation, which I show in the book. And then she has to come out of this and figure out a way to get back on track. And she has a family to support. what's interesting is that, she has her son, she has her sister. She has her mother who, despite, they're very antagonistic relationships. Sarah never turned her back on her family. And so. The seeds couldn't I couldn't, get distracted by everything. I could have been distracted by. I had to stay very focused on how things directly affect Sarah and how it propels her forward, because it is a turning point for her. She also describes, I think in that moment that she has far more resilience than she thinks she might've had. It gives her this purpose beyond herself.

Susanne 26:35

Yeah, no. Yeah, it was all very skillfully done. Of course. so pivoting a little bit, first of all, let's find out, how are you doing in terms of your writing and everything during this strange time of our lives and what's your writing day like

Christopher 26:54

the contract? So I'm, I have a book to deliver. I'm finding it oddly difficult. To stay inspired because it's just so dreadful out there. So a lot of the times what happens is you're trying to get yeah. Focused on this woman from the past and in her story and you ask yourself, How can this matter right now, with so much going on. And so it's been tough. It's been tough. the, seclusion's not unusual for me, I'm a writer. being at home working, it's not, I haven't noticed the coring team.

Susanne 27:30

Yeah.

Christopher 27:32

It hasn't affected me that badly, but it has done something to my creativity in the sense that I find myself. Having to take more breaks and let the book steep longer than I usually would as I try to find my way through what's going on currently. And then putting that aside so that I can get back into this story that I'm working on.

Susanne 27:55

Yeah. I've heard things like that from other writers too. Who've who, it's just, it's the same, but it's different life.

Christopher 28:03

Yeah. It's very different. Cause you're very aware of what's going on outside. we have a national political situation. That's very tense and you have a global pandemic. It's brought up a lot of issues for me. I've lived through the AIDS epidemic, so see another pandemic happening in my lifetime. This it's weird. Yeah. In quite but I went through in the eighties and to see this happening again on such a global scale is. It's weird. it's been a little PTSD for me.

Susanne 28:38

Yeah. Yeah. I could see that. how it would be.

Christopher 28:41

Yeah. I just find that, these issues of mortality and the fragility of our society about, how, what little virus can just throw everything into chaos so

Susanne 28:52

quickly. Yeah. And then, it'll all go back to the way it was and people will forget the lessons we've learned,

Christopher 29:00

with this situation. that's the one thing I've been feeling is that we're not going to go back to the way we were. it's good. It's going to bring a marked change, I think. And

Susanne 29:10

in what ways do you think,

Christopher 29:12

Oh, Eventually they'll bring up a bill, find a vaccine, but we don't know how effective a vaccine will be. We don't know if it will be an annual vaccine like the flu. we all know the flu still kills thousands of people every year. this virus isn't going away, we're going to need to learn to live with that. And so I think it will change the way we view global pandemics in the future. Hopefully, we'll be more prepared. And I also think it will change the way. Hopefully it will change the world. We see what we value in life. I think this has shown just how little, certain things matter.

Susanne 29:50

Yeah. What you can do without what you don't need, what you can, how you can simplify your life. But the thing that I really want is for. What we've learned is necessary to stay a value to us. Like the people who work in the grocery stores, the delivery people, the people who have had, who have basically kept the economy going as much as it could. I worry that we're just going to side back and let them all fall into the background and the teachers, all that sort of thing. that's my worry. Yeah,

Christopher 30:20

we'll time will tell. it's definitely a very, it's a time of upheaval. it's a time of reckoning for the human race on many levels and watch just how some areas of the planet I've flourished in our app. So that in itself, something to say, wow, when we stop flying so much and driving so much and polluting so much. No look how quickly nature comes back. I'm a very, I've always been a very concerned about the climate and the environment, my whole life. I've been very much an animal lover and a supporter of the natural world. So to me, I'm hoping that's a lesson we take forward. that the planet is not irrevocably broken. We, there are ways to fix what's happening or to make things less catastrophic. But if we continue on the path that we've been on, the virus is one thing, but watching what's happened when we stop doing all the things we did with the planet and how quickly it can recover. That's a lesson we shouldn't forget

Susanne 31:30

from your lips as they say

Christopher 31:35

no. our biggest issue always is people's need for profit.

Susanne 31:41

Yeah. Yep. So on that and cheerful note, let's switch a little bit to something else, which is you're working on another novel. And when is that? when will we be able to, when is that?

Christopher 31:55

Can you script this due in December of 2021? so it's, 2020 this year, I don't know if I'm gonna make the deadline. it's looking nice right there. If I make the deadline, I was told publication yeah. Would be in the fall of 2021. but having had a novel released in the middle of the pandemic. I'm not overly eager to go through that again. we put a lot of time and effort into writing a book and it's a huge endeavor. And then, comes out and it's. not in stores and people can't get it in stores and you can't do anything you can't do in person. You can't do events, you can't do anything to promote the book. It's really disappointing. so I'm going to work as hard as I can to make my deadline, and then we'll see where it goes. If everything goes as scheduled sometime in 2021, everything is subject to change because publishing people haven't even gotten back to work in publishing. And now they're saying, no, one's going back to the office before next year. everything could be delayed. I just don't know. Right now I have no clear and my most important, and my primary goal is just to deliver the book I want to deliver. Yeah. To live with the best things.

Susanne 33:13

Yeah. Yeah.

Christopher 33:14

It's a little bit longer. It's going to take a little bit longer. I've been really good about keeping my deadlines. I don't think I've ever missed a deadline in my entire career. if it's needed to make the book better than, I'm going well. It's, I'm writing about Jenny Churchill, the mother.

Susanne 33:28

Oh, nice. Yeah.

Christopher 33:30

Jenny Gero.

Susanne 33:31

And she was from Brooklyn, right?

Christopher 33:34

it's my first American character. Most of her life in England. she has a very full life. And in this particular novel, there was no way to carve out an arc. The more, no matter how I approached her, I had to do her full life to get everything I sat. I haven't done a full life in a book since. Catherine and Matt and she, I think was the last time character's life.

Susanne 34:04

Yeah. Look, I looked to my right and the book is on my bookshelf, Catherine, to manage it. Yeah.

Christopher 34:10

And it's much more challenging, first of all, because publishers want shorter and shorter books. the word counts are very stringent. you're not given more than what you're allotted. they want them shorter because people's attention spans are. Apparently decreasing and, I have a full life to cover and she had a very full life. And so oftentimes without walls, all by novels, my biggest challenge is always. It's not what to include. It's what not.

Susanne 34:40

yes. And that was when I think it was, an Easter Smith. When I interviewed her, she had that great little line that said it, we as historical novelists have to know everything so that we can figure out what we have to leave out. Exactly.

Christopher 34:57

first of all, the research for this novel's been intense. I've had to, delve into all kinds of areas. it's very much in the ear I've been working in lately. I've been working in the late 19th century. my last three novels will including this one will be in the late 19th century. So Roman Alcon Paris and Sarah Bernhardt, and the Genesis Churchill book are all women of the Sierra. They're all contemporaries of each other, they're vastly different. one was one was a French actress. Jenny's an American socialite and Mary's into the British aristocracy.

Susanne 35:29

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I'll be very excited when that book is out. I'm sure. But, I really. I can't endorse you enough as a historical novelist. It's really great to have such strong people in this genre, which I absolutely love. And. It's the challenge is keeping going and keeping, coming up with things that fit into the what's going on in the market. And we're not going to go into that now because that's a whole other conversation. other conversation. But anyway, what I just wanted to say was, I really appreciated you taking this time to talk to me. It was really great connecting. Yeah. And where can people find you? Do you have a website and

Christopher 36:20

stuff? Site it's www CW, gartner.com and their social media links. I have Facebook, Twitter. I have a Pinterest. I'm not on Instagram and I try to stay off, these are my social medias that I do. I just do Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram and Pinterest because I just it's great. Cause I have pictures. So for readers who want to see my characters, photographs, and paintings, all my books are featured there. As well as my obsessions with fashion and movie stars and all the rest of it.

Susanne 36:56

Yeah.

Christopher 36:58

But I try to, social media is a monster and it can eat you up. So I try to keep it. Contained, but you can always visit me on my website and find there's links to all my books and my international editions and all the rest. And if the clubs want to invite me to read, took me to work with them, to talk to their book clubs. There's a link where you can write me directly. Tell me for your book club. And I do that a lot. I've been doing a lot of those recently actually, and that's been nice. that's the one nice thing about technology is that I, even if we're locked in, I can still visit book clubs.

Susanne 37:27

Yeah. So that's great. Yeah. I think I'm going to let you off the hook and let you get back to what you're doing, but again, thank you so much.

Christopher 37:37

My pleasure. Thank you for having me, Suzanne and always great to see you.

Susanne 37:40

Great to see you too.