Interview with Tracy Grant, Author of THE TAVISTOCK PLOT

Tracy and I had a terrific conversation about the nature of writing series, and what ways it can be easier and harder at the same time. Her Fraser-Rannock historical mystery series is 19 volumes long! And she just keeps going with this smart, well-researched, intriguing stories. Enjoy!

Transcript

Susanne 0:27

my guest today is Tracy grant. Tracy writes the Radek Fraser historical mystery series, which is pretty amazing if you haven't read any of it. And I have just a lot of questions for Tracy. First of all, how are you doing?

Tracy 0:45

I am doing pretty well. Like I guess I always say to people, I mean, all things considered I'm doing pretty well. I mean, I feel fortunate in a lot of ways, partly because, um, in my non-writing life, I work for an opera training program and I also know a lot of actors. And so they are all unable to practice their art right now. And at least as writers, we can still practice our art and get it out in the world. So. Although, I mean, there were issues with distribution and things, but with eBooks and things can still be, we can still write books and have the pilot book published during, during the academic. So I'm grateful for that. I'm grateful that my daughter and I have a big yard to go outside in and I was already used to working from home. So yeah. I mean, it's, it's a tough time, but it's some, yeah. I feel fortunate compared to a lot of people.

Susanne 1:30

Oh yes. I hear you. And, you know, uh, has your, is your daughter doing okay with remote schooling and that kind of thing?

Tracy 1:37

I already did homeschool. So that's another thing that's been really great. So we were already adjusted to that, to working from home and doing school at home. And we have a neighbor. Uh, her best friend is our neighbor. Who's her age. And after a couple of months, we kind of went into a social bubble with them. So she's had company and she's also learned she can do zoom by herself. Now she's learned how to do FaceTime with her friends. And then when she wanted to talk to more than one at once, she figured out how to, well, she had me help reduce zoom, but now she can do it herself. So, I mean, it's amazing. It

Susanne 2:06

truly is the kids are they're growing up so differently. I don't know about you, but I really date from the pre-computer age.

Tracy 2:13

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Tell her things like I'll say, yeah, we, didn't not only did we not have smartphones when I was little, we didn't have computers. We didn't have email. I mean, it's like, yeah, it's amazing.

Susanne 2:26

It's inconceivable.

Tracy 2:31

I remember even back in the nineties, a friend's kids saying to me that my old laptop, that's a funny computer. It's black and white, and that was when color computers hadn't been around that long, but they couldn't remember. Computers that weren't in color. And that was, you know, over 20 years ago,

Susanne 2:47

I still remember getting my first, uh, color display laptop

Tracy 2:52

getting my first computer when I was in college. And it was a big gap, a big thing. Yeah.

Susanne 2:56

Yeah. Anyway, anyway, let's get to your books. First of all, um, I was, as I did my little bit of research on you, I had no idea that the first of these, this mystery series came out in like 2009. Is that correct? Well,

Tracy 3:17

yes, the first, the first, the first, okay. 2011. Um, But no, wait a minute. I'm thinking. Yes, 2011, but in 2002, I started, I wrote the Fraser books, which the Rannoch series is kind of an retelling alternate universe that grew out of the fridge, which is why I call them the Randek Fraser books.

Susanne 3:41

Got it. Got it.

Tracy 3:42

Bruce. And I, um, and I wanted to, I wanted to write about the same characters. I actually wanted to write about their earlier adventures at that point. And they wanted different names. So I changed the names of the main characters. And then I got to the point where I wanted to go forward after what I'd done in the Fraser book. So I basically did sort of an alternate reality. To catch the series is up. So, yeah.

Susanne 4:05

Okay. So my, so my estimation of how many there are, is probably off. How many have you written of these?

Tracy 4:15

There it's a little tricky because there are no Vallas I believe with, with the novellas we're at about 19.

Susanne 4:22

Wow. That's that's really impressive.

Tracy 4:27

Bell is not, it's not all full novels. Yeah,

Susanne 4:29

yeah, yeah. But even so it's impressive because these are not just tossed off little historical mysteries with whatever. There's a lot of serious deep history in there, and the characters are really well developed. And you know, if these are, you really have to read them to appreciate that about them. So I, you know, and I started reading the Tavistock plot, which is your most recent one and I'm still deeply engrossed in it. Um, and, and also these are, I mean, you said you wrote some novellas, but these are also substantial books. The ones that are actually books, you know?

Tracy 5:04

Right, right. Yeah. I do. I do know Vela. He took to keep the series going. I do a novella every November, and then I have a novel every may and I'm the Nobel is, are much. Or about, you know, 30, 30 to 50, the thousand words, the novella, the novels are about 120 to 130. And so the novellas are much, I can write much more quickly, but let's make it the series going. And it also lets me sometimes dramatize events and kind of the over all arc of the characters that wouldn't fit in a full novel, but I want to show them. So it's, it's fun for that too.

Susanne 5:37

Right. So can you give me just be some sort of insight as to how you've managed to keep this series going over such a long time? You mentioned something about changing some things, but you know, is it, is it, do you think it's easier or harder, or if you had to write all of those as separate books, would that be harder?

Tracy 5:58

Yes, I think so. Um, I think so. I mean, I think there are, there are things that are easier and things that are harder. I mean, for me, when I start writing, I, it takes with new characters. It takes me. Probably a quarter to a, sometimes even half of the first drafts. And I didn't even all of the first draft to get figured out how the characters talk and like have their voices come easily. So with these characters, with Malcolm and Melanie, the central couple and the other ongoing characters, I know when I go in how they talk, how they communicate, I know their history. I don't have to sit down and work out backstory. Now I have to do that for news. There's new. There are new characters in each book because each book and novella has a separate mystery arc that gets wrapped up as well as. Ongoing series arcs. So that that's easier. Certainly. I mean, I really admire her circle novelist to change periods from book to book or, you know, between every few books. Okay. Because, you know, sort of trying to try to master the detail one area, is that not that I'm always learning, finding new things. That I had to research in each book and learning new things, which is great, which I would be bored if that wasn't true, but it is easier being in the same world. And then, you know, you have settings that you're coming back to, to your new settings, but you know, I know what their house looks like. I know what other other houses look like. I know I've written scenes. Yeah. So that, that helps. So I think it's, I do think for me it's easier and I love, I love no my characters and living with them. And, and when I start a new book, it's like settling in with my friends. That's I like that feeling.

Susanne 7:25

Yeah, I can, I can really understand that because I mean, my own very small way. I was so excited because I actually wrote the third in a series. I thought, wow, I actually have a series.

Tracy 7:38

That's how it starts. And that's. Yeah, that's wonderful. But it's so yeah.

Susanne 7:42

And, and it is you're right. I mean, it's like, I know this character, I get right into her voice and it's, you know, and I understand her background and what's happened with her, but here's the other thing about these. I'm curious, do you have readers who have like read the entire series from beginning to end that you know of?

Tracy 8:01

I do. I do. I actually have a, there's actually a good reads group that a reader started to talk about the books. So there's a good reads group of people and it's every so often we'll have a thread because new people join about how people discovered the series. And it's amazing to me, there are people. Who've read the whole thing from the beginning. There are people who've started recently. All of the books, some of them have just read the book. Some of them have gone back to and read the Fraser books. Um, so it's, and then there were, and it always intrigued me too. People who started with a book fairly late in the series and liked it, then went back and read the earlier ones versus the people who've read all along. It's very interesting.

Susanne 8:38

Yeah. Well, for myself, my I'm reading this, um, this, the most recent one, is that the way you've threaded in the hints of stuff that happened before it makes me say, Oh, I need to go back and see what that was, you know?

Tracy 8:54

Well, that's good. I mean, that's the idea. That's what you want to do. That's the only, the challenging theories. I mean, you want, you want to have enough for new readers to not be totally confused. You don't want to bore the people who know it all. You want to remind those people who haven't read one of the books for like a year, what, what happened? So yeah.

Susanne 9:10

Yeah. It's slightly different. It's a slightly different or not different, but it, it adds a layer of craft to the whole thing to have to consider all of that

Tracy 9:21

instead of, yeah. Yeah. That's maybe where writing a series can get to be more complicated than writing. There are ways it's easier than writing. Stand-alones that I guess, trying to keep the series arc going is where it can get more complicated.

Susanne 9:35

Yes, absolutely. And it, you know, it really is. I don't know. Maybe there are, you know, Courses or whatever out there are classes that, that talk about writing a series, but I've never bumped into one and I've kind of just sort of made it up as I went along for my little series. But, um, I'm also fascinated by a couple of different things. One is the preponderance of families and children. In your books, you know, it's a, it's a, it's a mystery it's in there, they're in the, um, Regency period. And, and there, there always seemed to be children in the picture, which is really different. I think

Tracy 10:19

it is it's. Yeah, it is true. It started with, um, the series started with the premise for the theories originally with a couple who would actually grew out of a book. I cover it with my mom that was never published. Like. When I was still in college, but of a couple who were, she's a French spy and he's a British spy and they, and they get married and she's fine. During the Napoleonic Wars, she married him and him. Then they, the, then she falls in love with him. And where does it go? And what happens when he learns the truth and that's sort of the core piece of the series. And so they all they had from the beginning, they've had children, um, So their children have been part of it. And then there are other couples who either come into the series with children or who've gotten together and had children. So now they're there. A lot of the main characters have children, which I find, I mean, the, sort of the challenges of balancing being a parent and having a career, which in these people's cases, isn't is being spies. It's investigating mysteries. It's being in parliament. A lot of the challenges that were not unlike the challenges that. Modern parents face. So that sort of parallels, I think in contrast are interesting. And I like the kind of, there's also, it gives it an edge because they're running a lot of risks that are in danger, but the fact that they have kids sort of heightens the dangers, it grounds them. It means that when they decide about what risks to run, it's not just as simple as, Oh, well, I can risk myself. It doesn't matter what happens to me. I'm willing to take this risk. So, um, yeah. Yeah.

Susanne 11:46

It makes it feel like so much more, um, Deep a world is though you're really in the world. You're not just engaging with these characters, you know?

Tracy 11:57

Right. Yeah, exactly. I think it gives them, at least to me, it gives them a fuller life. And it gives you a sense that you're in your, you're coming into this full life, as opposed to just into the, into a certain adventure. Right?

Susanne 12:08

Exactly. Yeah. I, and I really appreciate that. And then the other thing is there seems to be such a, an even balance in. Agency between, and that's not meant to be a bond between the men and the women,

Tracy 12:26

right? Well, I mean, I, yes. I mean, I, I like that in, in reality, but also I think that's one of the reasons I liked the whole premise of a couple who were both spies, because then they both. Equally share that career, at least going into it. And they're both, they're both used to going into danger and especially once he gets, you know, once they get used to the fact that they're both, they both been spies, they can share things pretty equally. And I think that's an, yeah. So that's. And then the other women in the series who weren't spies to begin with are mostly married to former spies. So there's, they've kind of been it appeals to them and they kind of get, they, they become more active. I think as the series has gone on, which is fun to

Susanne 13:10

write. So, yeah. Um, so how much of that, of the idea of female spies versus male spies is, is based in, in your research and history and how much is just you making it up?

Tracy 13:23

Well, I mean, There certainly have been female spies historically throughout. And I mean, I don't know of any who married with any French spies who married British spies and it could have happened that we never learned about it. Um, there are certainly the were very capable women who did spy and who even ran spine network. So there's, that's been true in, in various historic Clara's. Yeah. I just said the record, the records of, of actual spies from the era are, I mean, it's not something that's really recorded largely. So a lot of that is, is sort of. It could have happened. This could have happened. Here's what we know about did have what did happen historically and what could have happened. So, I mean, I've created a character that wasn't, that wasn't an official intelligence service, but I've created a character Lord, Carfax, who's sort of the unofficial head of British intelligence and runs things like a secret network. Um, and then I do have in there one book that takes place during Waterloo and there was. A man called Kohan grant, who was the head of, I probably said his name, wrong, his first name, but he was the head of military intelligence center Wellington. So one of my characters, Harry Davenport works for him at the, in, in, um, Imperial scandal. And that was, and he was a real character.

Susanne 14:42

The thing I love about historical fiction is a couple of things. First we get to ask what if, what if this were the case?

Tracy 14:50

Yeah. Right. And,

Susanne 14:52

and, and second of all, I always learned something I had absolutely no idea about when I read historical fiction, especially in eras that I don't specialize in. And I don't write, I have never written in the Regency era for, I have no idea what to reason, but it's just, it has never happened. And, um, and the stuff about the politics. Can you talk a little bit more about that? The levelers and things,

Tracy 15:17

right? Yeah. It's a fascinating era to me. Um, Because it's kind of, it's on the cusp between, I mean, the 18th century, which was much more body and the Victorian era, which was much more restrained at least on the surface officially. And it's also, you know, it's between industrial, between sort of a much more agricultural world and a much more industrial world and things are changing and yet, and there's the, there's the runway, the antique era going on. There's the format of the French revolution kind of lingering. But because of that, it's a very. Um, reactionary time politically in a lot of ways. I mean, a lot of the people in power, especially once Napoleon's backpacks and that's one reason why a lot of people. Supporting Napoleon for all the issues with him was that he was sort of the last remnant of representing the French revolution and there were UN change. And, um, and there were a lot of progressive laws that got rolled back when he fell. So, so in Britain you have the Tories basically in power the whole time. And you have a little, a lot of people like castle, right? The British foreign secretary for most of the era and met her Nick and Austria. Who are, um, who both are in my book, Vienna waltz, which is at the Congress of Vienna. Oh, really thought any kind of reform opened the Gates to revolution, as opposed to thinking, Hey, if we don't want to have a revolution, maybe we better make some reforms to stop it from coming, but that wasn't the attitude they had. So, um, So you had, and at the same time you had, have you had unrest bubbling up, especially, um, after the, after Waterloo in Britain, there was a lot of, a lot of soldiers coming back and then there were not, there were not good pensions. They didn't, people didn't have money. People were, people were injured, they couldn't work. You had enclosure happening on a lot of the lands and, um, people losing their blood, able to farm anymore people the start of sort of the beginning of dirty life, but it was pretty grim than what a lot of rights for factory workers. There were some bad harvests. There were corn laws that protected the price of wheat, which was great for the aristocrats, that loan wheat, but it made bread really the own wheat. It made bread very expensive. So, um, it was, it was a tough time and there were, and there were the stars of people like the Luddites who were against, you know, thought machines were the problem and were against breaking were for breaking, which would smash machines. And there were protests like Peter Lee, when the. Sounds kind of modern. The government government troops ended up firing on protesters and people were shot and killed. So I invented a group called the levelers who are, um, and there was actually, it was a group in the 17th century called the levelers who were part of the, part of the, yeah. The English civil war. So I, and I, I had studied that in college. So I am my, my modern levelers, my modern, as in Regency levelers took their name from that group. There they're a more educated group of, um, some young aristocrats, some artists, some, a lot of people around the theater, which is where the Tavistock plot takes place. And there, um, They're supporting reform. They're writing things that would be considered. Cause you could get arrested for writing a lot of different things from this era that was. You know, freedom of speech really didn't exist. So they're writing and they're potentially getting involved in some more violent agitation. It's not, that's one of the issues in the book and they're connected to the carbon RA in Italy because I had done a book called gilded the seat in Italy, and there were connections to the carbon RA who were also, who were young radicals, who actually were involved in, in violent uprisings in Italy at the time.

Susanne 18:44

I picture your brain now with all of these little threads, going all over Europe at this time, and sort of gathering all of this history and synthesizing it into these really exciting mystery stories. It's, it's pretty impressive. I have to say. Um, yeah. Yeah. So how did you get started in writing these? I mean, D you mentioned, uh, co-writing a book with your mother when you were in college.

19:12

Right.

Tracy 19:12

So my, my mom, I always have loved the Regency era. I love Jane Austin. Um, I, my mother read pride and prejudice to me when I was seven. I'm reading it to my daughter, my daughter's age. Um, and then we, she discovered your dead hair and then sort of reading those to me when I think I was 10 and we read those together and we loved, we both loved the Regency era and. I was, I wrote from when I was very young, I was always writing stories and I, and I bet my mother was a psychologist. I got her on a trip when I was 13 that she couldn't like a book because I wanted her to write a book and she got an idea for a Regency. Romance. And we ended up, worked on it together, off and on, and we sold it when I was in college and it was actually published, was called the widow's gambit. And then we did, we did work on a second book that we weren't able to sell it with a little offbeat. And if it had the idea, it gave you the idea for Malcolm and Melanie bannock basically. But then my mom and I went on and wrote eight books together, um, over the next year from. Published from 1988 into the, to the, basically a mom died in 95. So for like seven, seven years we wrote together. And that was great. It was really, um, it was really fun to write with her and very exciting. And, um, and then we had started, we did, we had written one historical romance set in the, actually during the peninsula war in Spain with our, one of our last books together. And after she died, I wrote three more. That were all Regency or just after the actually they were, or just after the Regency, the last one was 1820s. And, but I loved, I always. We always put a lot of mystery in our books and I put more and more mystery in them. Then also history and adventure. And I would, my editors would have to remind me it's a romance, put more romance than, you know, we need more time with a couple of the plots, too complicated, simplify the plot. And I'm like, okay, this is obviously what I want to write is. Is a different kind of book. Maybe I better write it and, um, see if I can sell it, which with, and that was when I wrote the book, which was originally published as well, daughter of the game. And then it was reissued as secrets of a lady. Um, and that it was the first, um, that was the first Fraser book. And at that point they were called, uh, Malcolm and Charles and Melanie Fraser. And then when I did the Rana clips, they became. Malcolm and Suzanne ran act, which were their middle names, but then when Melanie's past comes out, it turns out that her real name is Melanie. So she sort of went back. She went back to being Melanie

Susanne 21:42

in the series. Okay. So that, that links the names for me. Cause I had, cause I went back and looked at your earlier ones and saw Charles and Melanie, I thought,

Tracy 21:51

wow. Yeah, yeah, that was, yeah. That's a roundabout way. I loved about rebooting. The series is part of their backstory was always as if they'd been at the Congress of Vienna. And then they'd been in Brussels during Waterloo. And so the first romantic books I wrote were the Congress of Vienna and then Brussels during and before and during an after Waterloo and then a one in Paris AF right after Waterloo. Where there was a lot going on, and those were really fun settings to write about and

Susanne 22:20

explore. Yeah. Yeah, I know. It's that's the other thing is that, I mean, I have, I have a couple of manuscripts that take place in early New York city, but I keep being drawn back to Europe for my.

Tracy 22:32

Yeah. Yeah, I know. I love Britain. I was just need your interview with Christopher Gordon or when he was talking about his first, I think United States set book. So when he's doing about Jenny Churchill, I was thinking, yeah, I not drawn to writing about the United States. I mean, unless maybe set my British characters there for a book, but I've not even that isn't even something I thought about doing. It's just, it's interesting how certain settings draws.

Susanne 22:57

And I think that's partly because of the period we're interested in because especially early. The to Europe and the United States were so very different for

Tracy 23:08

me too. Right, right.

Susanne 23:11

I'm interested in music and art and things like that, which were less well developed in the 18th century. In the U S

Tracy 23:18

yeah. No, that's true. So it's fair. Yes. So it's very, it's very fun to write about exploring. I loved Vienna because there was so much you've written about Vienna earlier. Is, it can be Anna. I mean, it's a true musical city and it's just very, that was so fun to write about.

Susanne 23:31

Yeah. Vienna is awesome. And, and, uh, and complicated too, you know? I mean there's

Tracy 23:36

yeah.

Susanne 23:38

The, the terms of their, the Royal family and the HubSpot hugs and all that kind of stuff. It's and it's very complicated. It's so funny because. And I'm doing this presentation for my book launch about this amazing character, uh, named Joseph who was, uh, who was a black violinist in Paris in the 17. He came when he was just a boy and then he stayed there until he died. And, um, In reading this book that about him, which there's only really one authoritative book. There were all these things that I never knew, even though I know about that history, just having somebody else's view into it

Tracy 24:20

by,

Susanne 24:21

wow. I didn't realize that, you know, there was all this stuff going on in the North of France during the revolution so, so what have you sort of had any. Research surprises when you've looked for things.

Tracy 24:35

Yes. Let me think. I mean, well, one of the things, one of the things in this book is, um, one of the characters turns out to have to be descended from an African, from a, from a slave and Barbara tomatoes. Um, which is part of, part of the backstory that he, I mean, he knows this, but. And, um, and so I did, I mean, I knew sun and I had gone to great exhibit at the museum of the city of London years ago, about, about, um, black, black, British people in this era. But what amazes me researching that is how modern the arguments against slavery sound. I mean, it's the exact same arguments that you'd make today, basically about the inhumanity of it. It's not. It's not like, Oh, they just viewed it differently than it was different. No one knew it. They didn't, they didn't understand why it was wrong. I mean, and yet very strongly the arguments against the rather obvious arguments against why it's inhumane were being made. And that, um, is both heartening because it shows that people had humanity in any era. And it's depressing because the same arguments are being played out today. So that's yeah. Yeah. And the vibrancy of the, um, The African culture in, in Britain at the time is something you don't, you don't pretend to be aware of. We don't, we think of it as pretty sort of white looking world and it wasn't. So that's, that's true.

Susanne 26:04

I know it's the same, it's a similar thing in France, possibly. Not as much, but you know, that European history has basically been whitewashed

Tracy 26:13

because it's.

Susanne 26:14

Written by white men. It's been whitewashed and, and masculinized. Yes. We also have another connection in that eye. I have worked for opera companies and stuff, you know, which is really. Yeah. And, and, um, unfortunately the company I worked for is no more. It didn't survive the 2008 recession.

Tracy 26:37

Yeah.

Susanne 26:38

So, but you have this whole thing is around the theater for you. Do you have any kind of a theater background or is this just

Tracy 26:45

I do. I used to, well, actually, when I was very young about my daughter's age, I would say I want it to be an opera singer. Um, my grandmother had sun opera and my great aunt. Um, I do not have a voice. My own daughter who's things quite well tells me to be quiet when she was about a year and a half. She wouldn't. Yeah, we sing to her. I was doing some vocal warmups before I did before this interview today. And she told me to be quiet.

Susanne 27:10

Okay.

Tracy 27:11

Yeah, I love opera, but I don't have a voice, but then I thought then I wanted to be an actress and I did a lot of theater, um, through high school and college. I was an apprentice with what's now the California Shakespeare theater and, um, in the East Bay and the Bay area. Um, and I, and then when I was in college and I was studying theater, I, we sold our first book and suddenly I realized that writing was something where you didn't just write the book and it sat somewhere because this was before the days when you could. Put it up on your website or something, but actually people are going to read it. And I started thinking about being a writer and my interests kind of move that way, but I've always loved theater and love art loved opera. So, um, so it's been part of the theories. From the beginning on Malcolm and Melanie's good friend, Simon Tanner was a playwright and he's the part owner of the theater. And that's been there's one book, the Berkeley square affair that centers around a manuscript and alternate manuscript of Hamlet, like alternate version of Hamlet that comes to light that may or may not be authentic

Susanne 28:06

that was mentioned in the Tavistock plot.

Tracy 28:09

Yeah. And they're actually putting on a production of this play while meanwhile. It may have been used as a code. The manuscript may have been used. It's just a code book. So there's a whole intrigue going on with it, but there's quite a bit about the theater, but then, and then Melanie's backstory is that, um, she was the daughter of traveling. Her parents had a traveling theater company. In Spain and the, when she was proposed, there was French from other, with Spanish. And her mother was an actress. Her father ran this company and they were, her mother died when she was eight and childbirth that her father was killed in the Napoleonic, in the peninsula Wharf. And she, if they got caught up in an attack in a village and when she was 15 and she ended up on her own, um, it was really, her sister was killed. It was really devastating, but she came out of theater. So that was partly why she then ended up becoming a spy. I mean, she has these skills where she can play with different roles and. But then as I've been developing her, there's been this there's a thread in the book about women, about women needing roles outside being well mothers, although they're, you know, they're very devoted mothers and they love their husbands. And Melanie has always been a spy, but then she stops being spy after Waterloo. Cause it's too much and she's. I'm still committed to the thing she believes in she's, but she's working a lot as Malcolm. She's a very accomplished political hostess and a diplomatic hostess, and she's investigating with Malcolm, but really her, her life is pretty much built around now. And I kind of touched off and on and actually looking back on I'm I touched on it more than I realized about how sort of an issue on her that she doesn't have anything that's really her own. And, um, if you go back to what she might've been, if she, her family hasn't been killed and she kind of been caught up in the worst, she probably would, she was starting to act on stage. So she might've ended up being an actress. So I got the idea a couple of books ago that of her becoming a playwright. And that was something cause, cause because you know, with being in British society, her being an actress was probably pushing it a bit, but you know, there were. Um, current lady, Carolyn Lamb's brother, right with George Lamb was a playwright. And that was not scandalous at all. I mean, there being a playwright, something that was considered scandalous and there were certainly women novelists. So, so, um, so I had, I, I brought up at the end of the book, the Glenister papers that she was writing a play. And, um, and then there's my, the novella before this, they actually, she actually appears in front of a charity holiday to mine. And that's what that sits at around that. And then I was setting up that she was in, yeah. Yeah, that her play was going to start being produced. And, um, and then, and then I already had the level of group being centered around the theater. So those two and, and were, it was early 18, 20, there's a lot of unrest going on. It's right before George, the third dies. So bringing together the theater and the political invests seemed like a good combination to this book. Yeah.

Susanne 30:58

I mean, I love all these dimensions and everything. Now I have a more practical question, which is. Do you know who done it? When you start writing your mysteries?

Tracy 31:10

Sometimes I used to write I've actually my mom and I. Plotted a lot because there were two of us and we wrote alternate things and I, I quite a bit, but I, I start, I bought an index card that I know. Right. I don't know if you write using Scribner. Yes. I love Scribner. Scribner's amazing. So I use the, the corkboard in Scribner and I lay out my scenes on index cards and what I'll do now with I'll usually start writing. I'm actually starting, I'm finishing up in the novella. That will be out since November. It's about. Let's go to the copy editor, hopefully today, but I'm starting the next book that'll be out next may. And, um, and what I'll do as I, as I lay out the index cards and I'm working out the plot, I'll have certain scenes I know are going to happen and I'll start drafting those. So I will write parts of it before I know. The whole plot sometimes. Um, and then I can go back and weave them together, which I actually find that way. I spent a lot less time on transitions, which I can get really hung up on. Um, so I don't necessarily know who did it when I begin. I sometimes do, but I don't. Um, I didn't in the tablet stock plot until I was injured. I don't remember how far I was, but I was awake. It was pretty obvious to me when I decided what, what. It was really obvious, but, um, I was a ways into the first draft before I was sharp.

Susanne 32:31

Yeah. I, you know, the people are so different writers are so different about this kind of thing about wanting to just start writing and see where it goes. And so I guess I'm kind of in the middle too. I have to have, I kind of have to have a vision of what the ending should be like, but I don't know how I'm going to get there.

Tracy 32:49

Exactly and I, and I have sometimes no, and I actually have I'm writing now in the new books scenes, because they're, they're sort of in each book, there's both. Sort of the overarching series architecture that's, that's developing. And then there's the mystery of that book. And I actually even have a script on a file for the series architecture, where I just have like index cards for things I know we're going to happen at some point. I'm not even sure in which book yet. And I'm not necessarily sure in which order they're going to happen. So there is some scenes like that, that I've been working on in the new book, because I know those are going to happen regardless of the, sort of. Interwoven with the mystery of the book, but, but it sort of, but separate from it, you went away.

Susanne 33:28

supposedly my series with my young adult series is a mystery series, but it's, but it's, you know, it's funny because I think of it more as her is her character arc, then the actual mystery under underlying it.

Tracy 33:42

Right. Yeah. Well, I, yeah, I that's, that's the fun thing though. I think about a series is, I mean, I love mystery. I trying to, I trying to guess what's happened, you know, who did it when I'm reading it, but I, but I really love in a series following the characters and watching them grow and that's like, That's very exciting.

Susanne 33:59

Yeah. Yeah. Although I have to say I'm not really regretting, but this is a young adult series and Theresa is an at the upper limit of the age of a young adult. And so I think I'm going to have to move it into the adult.

Tracy 34:15

Oh yeah. And then grow with it. I mean, you know, Start, it will then become yeah. They'll like that because then they won't, they'll like reading about someone. Yeah. Yeah.

Susanne 34:25

So I haven't now back to something else I've thought about, but you have all these wonderful children, these families in here. Have you ever thought of writing like a middle grade book that involves the kids side of things?

Tracy 34:38

Oh, that's a really interesting idea. You know, I've thought about, as I know, you've even thought, cause my daughter writing a little bit now, so I've thought about us writing something together, but that's a really interesting idea to actually link right about, I have thought about writing about the kids when they're older, they they'd be about the writing. Yeah. Page for say Colin, mellow, Malcolm and Melanie send to be in Paris in 1830, two I'm in the lane is a era. And so I've thought about that, but, um, but writing about the kids. As in like a middle grade option, that's a really interesting idea. And that kind of makes sense because readers at the series have kids and grandkids and they might,

Susanne 35:17

what made me think of it? Partly it was that the, their son is like trying to get involved with the investigation.

Tracy 35:24

Right. Yeah. That's what, that's one fun thing in Tavistock plot, as the kids are getting old enough now that some of them yeah. But they actually, and they actually do, he doesn't do a little bit, so it's yeah, that could definitely be something that grows.

Susanne 35:35

Yeah. I just see that. Cause I have with Theresa, I have, she has a younger sister who's 15 years younger than she is. And so I've been sort of thinking, Hmm. Maybe there's a middle grade book in there.

Tracy 35:48

Right. And I let, that's a great idea. I love the idea of a connection. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I thought it's doing more in the, in the, in the main series as they get older, you know, even as young children, but, but I hadn't thought about a separate book that was geared to middle grade readers on. I love that idea. That's um,

Susanne 36:06

anytime you can pay me after this is done.

Tracy 36:10

Yeah,

Susanne 36:12

no. Um, so is there anything that you want to say to there that I haven't thought of asking you in this, uh,

Tracy 36:21

really, really. And, um, no I'm working on the knee. So the next, the next novella and novel, it's not really a spoiler because this is actual history deal with in on. So. Um, Tavistock plot is in January, early, January of 1820, and George, the third died at the end of January. I think it was the 29th, 30, almost 30. And, um, his son had been region, which is why it's called the Regency. Um, and then, um, and then his son, the Prince Regent became George the fourth and he had been married. To, uh, to a princess named Caroline about 25 years before. And it was a disastrous marriage. I mean, they, he was, he was in love and it secretly married this woman, Maria Fitzherbert, but it wasn't a legal marriage because she was Catholic and she was divorced and she was Catholic and he didn't have permission. And there were all these, all these issues and, so, um, so in fact, he and Caroline had one child come to Charlotte. And if you look at the date, she's worn off exactly nine months from the wedding. So I almost wonder if they only slept together once slept together. I don't know, but in any case, um, the marriage fell apart. They basically live separately. Princess Charlotte died in childbirth in 1817, which was really sad. Um, and, um, Caroline had ended up in Italy and, um, with a man who was almost certainly her lover and when George became King, he wanted to divorce her. And he, it had to go through the house of Lords. So, and the Tories supported with him. I mean, he, he had, he had liked that he had, I hung out with the wigs when he was younger, but when he became Regent, he he's, he supported the tournament, the Whigs, especially the more radical wigs, which Malcolm as one up, um, supported the queen because they thought. Um, if, you know, if the King lost, it might shift, you might get mad at them Tories. It might shift the balance of power in parliament. And, and so in fact, um, her, her main defense lawyer was, and then Henry grill him. Who's a radical politician. Who's actually briefly mentioned an in Tavistock. So anyway, the next in, in June, she returned from Italy. And then in the fall, there was this trial in parliament, in the house. And I mean, there was evidence about bedsheets and who was seen doing what with whom and all sorts of things, because they were trying to prove that, you know, she'd been on baseball and, um, there was just, it was, it was. A circus. So, um, so my novella, my next novella, which is called the cat attacks that the Carfax intrigue, which is set in June of 1820, and then my, it deals with sort of just the time when she, this is all just starting to happen, she's just returned. And then my next novel is set in the fall around the trial. And I'm excited about that.

Susanne 39:10

That does sound great. Yeah. Yeah. So do you ever worry, you're going to run out of material.

Tracy 39:18

No. I mean, I don't, I mean, because I love the characters, they have lots of secrets. There are lots of things I still want to have happen to him. I think because I have an ensemble cast at this point, different books can focus on different characters and I have, I've sort of been careful that there are even some relatives and people who've been mentioned. Who've never really appeared in this series who could pop in and I can play around with their stories. And what kind of problems have. Um, and sort of, I think Malcolm and Melanie have a lot of ongoing issues and then the, and then the day's interesting. So, no, I don't, I don't, that's not something I worry about actually.

Susanne 39:54

Yeah, that's good.

Tracy 39:57

Yeah.

Susanne 39:58

Yeah. Well, um, I don't want to keep you much longer. This has been absolutely so much fun. I've loved talking to you. Are you in California? I

Tracy 40:09

am. I'm in the sand. I'm in Lynn County, near San Francisco for the golden gate bridge from San Francisco.

Susanne 40:14

Yeah. Have you, have you had been affected by the wildfire?

Tracy 40:18

Yeah, I mean, not, we haven't been at any risk, but there was one fire in point rays, which was on the coast. Um, we're up. Um, so yeah, and that was, we had a lot of smoke from that, going back to middle of August. And the last week, when we, you probably saw the pictures, you know, when the sky woke up one morning and I was like, It looks like it's dark, but it says it's nine o'clock what's going on. And we had the sky was orange and, uh, and it never, it was like sort of, you know, the far North Scotland or Scandinavia in winter when it never really gets to be based on that very heavy smoke, actually not so much that day as later it got, it got heavier. We had, um, through, through, not through last weekend, we had an a until Wednesday this week we had really bad air quality. So that's been, I mean, it's worse than the staff.

Susanne 41:04

Yeah. I have a brother who lives in a suburb of Portland, Oregon, but he said it was getting better for him too recently. But, um, yeah. And it's funny because someone else I know who lives in, Santa Barbara, I think she said that she woke up and she said, it looked like the sky had been erased and wasn't like a cloud

Tracy 41:29

cover. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. That's a great thing. It, yeah, we, we we've got Ash Ash falling from the sky. Like there was, there was Ash on top of her swimming pool and on a pool toy my daughter has, and she was like, it's Dustin. Like, no that's Ash, honey.

Susanne 41:44

Yeah. Well, anyway, I, I just want to say thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I hope you enjoyed having you.

Tracy 41:54

Oh, I had a great time. It's really fun. Thank you so much.