Interview with Stephanie Dray, Author of THE WOMEN OF CHATEAU LAFAYETTE

It amazes me how much I learn every time I talk to another author. Stephanie was so generous and lively, and I'm now completely smitten with all of the heroines in her forthcoming novel, The Women of Chateau Lafayette, which will be here in March (it's available for preorder now). Actually, I was smitten before we spoke. Listen to us nearly in tears at one point... LOL! Historical fiction can be very emotional...

Transcript

Susanne 0:27

Everyone I'm here today with Stephanie Dre, New York times bestselling author of America's first daughter, among many other books that she's written. And it's really quite amazing. And I'm extremely thrilled to have you here today, Stephanie.

Stephanie 0:43

thank you. I am thrilled to be here and very grateful

Susanne 0:47

to, Oh it's awesome. You're a powerhouse author at the moment you've been doing so much. And, I just would love to quickly backtrack before we start talking about your great upcoming book. about your journey. You started out working in writing about Egypt, ancient Egypt, right? So tell me how that went, what happened and. Yeah. Give us a story.

Stephanie 1:11

Yeah. Okay. I'm on my honeymoon. I was in the airport and I picked up a giant book by Margaret George called the memoirs of Cleopatra. And, my husband was very jealous of that book because here we were on our honeymoon and I could not pull myself away from the pages. I was absolutely intrigued by the queen of the Nile. And when I reached the end of the book, I realized that there had been a daughter with a Marc Anthony, and, she had gone on to become a queen. And I was so fascinated to realize that I had never heard of her and almost no one I knew had ever heard of her. And so I became obsessed. I had to know more. And as I delved into her life, I found the story of the young woman who was. A legacy builder, somebody who had to repair her parents, the legacy of her parents and who really strived to reestablish a loss world. And that moved me. she is not as famous as her mother because I think she was quite a well-behaved woman and they tend not to make history. but she was a very successful queen and I was able to write three books about her life.

Susanne 2:31

And so how did you then go from that to, what was next after that?

Stephanie 2:36

America's first daughter.

Susanne 2:37

Oh, Yeah. Okay. what led to that?

Stephanie 2:40

Okay. so it seems like a big jump from the ancient world. To Jeffersonian America. But for me, it was pretty natural in part because I love to write about revolutions and revolutionary eras and the contest between Egypt and Rome, was one of those turning points in history where we definitely saw the end of the Roman Republic. And the rise of the Roman empire and it felt intellectually natural to go to the rise of a new American Republic thereafter. But, it wasn't all an intellectual exercise. What had happened is I was ever writers' conference with my very dear friend, Laura and she was teaching history at the us Naval Academy at the time. And we were talking about a seminar that she was teaching about Thomas Jefferson, and we got to chatting. And I said, there's just been so much written about Thomas Jefferson, but there's got to be an unexplored angle. And the more we discussed it, we realized that the story of his daughters had not been told. And more importantly, we knew as Americans Jefferson's story as a founding father, but we didn't know his story as a father. And we got so excited that we raced back to my hotel room that night at the conference. And we were up until at least three or four in the morning researching. And we decided right then and there that we were going to write that book and that we were going to write it together. And that was a lot of hubris considering that neither of us had ever collaborated on such a project before, but I had really wanted to explore this, but I was not an expert on American early revolutionary history. Whereas Laura. was an early American scholar and she had never written a book of historical fiction before, whereas I had, so we felt like we could merge our experiences and thus America's first daughter was born.

Susanne 4:50

That's an amazing story. how was it? How did you work together? Exactly. not precisely, but how did it work?

Stephanie 4:59

Yeah. we got really lucky and I say that because I have since been involved in other collaborations that are not as smooth running Laura and I are very compatible when it comes to writing together. We have, complimentary styles, but not the same style. We each fill in gaps that the others have. We have strengths that the other one doesn't have. And, we speak the same language. we can talk about a scene and we know exactly what the other person needs. We approach the project with a lot of humility in terms of not being very possessive about our work. For example, our initial process was we would write alternating chapters and then swap them and then edit freely. So that the words weren't my words or Laura's words, but they were Patsy Jefferson's words. And fortunately for both of us, we almost always saw each other's changes and thought, Oh yeah, that's exactly right. Except all, Occasionally when we did have a dispute, we would hash it out. And I think in all, but one instance, we came up with a better third solution than either of us had come up with on our own. And the only disagreement we couldn't solve, we just had our editor decide.

Susanne 6:28

That's awesome. Yeah. What are the, you touched on it a little, but what are the pros and cons of writing on your own and writing with a co author?

Stephanie 6:38

now that I've done both, I would say that writing with a coauthor is a lot less lonely. You know, as a historical fiction author, you know, that we become absolutely obsessed with our subjects and we get very excited about little historical fines, and there's really only so much excitement that an outsider can share about that. I have a very patient husband, but he was not as excited by the research as Laura was. If I could find some little thing about Patsy Jefferson, or eventually Eliza Hamilton and my dear Hamilton, I could share it with her and she would squeal and we would squeal together. and so that was a lot of fun. It was so much fun to have somebody who cared just as much as you did about all of the minutiae, the story. also, it gives you a bit of security because you aren't relying only on your own talents. You have another, big brain to put, to work on your story. And, fortunately my coauthor is a very intelligent lady. So I highly value her big brain. another advantage is probably that you can. Double your marketing work. When you're promoting the book. Now you have two people who can be in more than one place. At one time, we often would split up on tour, do our own events so we could do twice as many. and of course online, you have twice as much marketing power. So those are the advantages. I guess the disadvantages are that if you. If you don't have a really great working relationship, it can be a very frustrating experience. And sometimes of course you don't get your own way. you might think, that sentence is gorgeous. Why won't she like it? and sometimes you have to compromise, but when you're working on your own work, you can hold the line.

Susanne 8:36

Yeah, no, that all makes total sense. And, but one, I would think one really big advantage is having ongoing feedback. being able to share and get that as you're going, instead of thinking. Is this. Okay. Is this going to be good?

Stephanie 8:54

Yeah. Yeah. I often say that Laura is my first reader, and I'm always writing to impress her. So it gives, it makes you, raise your game. Right? Cause you don't want to, you don't want your very valued partner to not be impressed. So you give it more oomph.

Susanne 9:14

Yeah. Yeah, no, I can see that. Yeah, no, I'm, I'm fascinated by that as I said, but

Stephanie 9:21

the

Susanne 9:21

purpose of this really is to talk about your upcoming book, your forthcoming book, which is the women of Chateau Lafayette. I see this, I can see the kind of repercussions that the connections, but do you want to, I'd love to hear a little bit about what inspired you to go to this particular thing, which we'll talk about is really a wonderful, It's a tour de force of form and voice in my view. So tell me a little bit about how you came to writing this novel. I'm going

Stephanie 9:56

to tell you the special insider story. All the stories that I tell about this are true, but they come from slightly different angles. The insider story is that I had wanted to write a novel about Adrian Lafayette for a very long time. She felt like a natural stepping stone, because I had written about Patsy Jefferson's journey in America's first daughter and Eliza Hamilton's journey in Mike or Hamilton. And both of those women deeply admired the Marquis de Lafayette. And he also played a fundamental role in their lives when both of them were having a very hard time. And, when I realized that he himself had a wife who was extraordinary, I really wanted to tell the story of our French founding mother. Unfortunately, at the time that I was thinking about this, my agent at the time said, you can't write about her. first of all, she's not American. She wasn't a queen. And she didn't even get her head cut off.

Susanne 11:12

Oh,

Stephanie 11:12

no. she said, I wonder if there's something that you could write during world war II, because at the time that was the emerging, sub genre that was quite popular, which just goes to tell you that. or it's a good indication of how long ago I was thinking about this story that it was just then people were thinking, Oh, maybe world war II, but I had never written in world war II before. And so I was thinking about the conception of the story and I was talking to my very dear friend, Kate Quinn. And I complained to her and I said, if only there was some connection between Lafayette and the Nazis, I'd be off that. And this thought just kept moving niggling at the back of my brain. And I kept thinking, I wonder if there is some connection. So I started doing a little research and almost immediately stumbled over the fact that Lafayette's versus birthplace. his Chateau and shopping yard had been used as a sanctuary to hide you as children during the Holocaust. And when I read that, I immediately became very emotional because I just was so touched to find that. This man who had dedicated himself to the cause of human rights and his wife who dedicated herself to the same had left this legacy so that their home could be used in such a beautiful way in the future, and then came and even more shocking surprise. I was very moved by this and I thought, okay, I'm going to tell this story about this house into eras, but how did this happen? How did this Chateau become a refuge for children? And I found out that an American heiress had, and her a wealthy friend had purchased the home in world war one and converted it. To, an orphanage for displaced and refugee children. And I wanted to know who those women were and I looked them up and one of them of course, was a woman named Beatrice Chandler. And I thought Beatrice Chandler, I know that name. That name seems so familiar to me. And I looked right up over my desk where I have a bookshelf. And I saw a book on that shelf, five Beatrice Chandler, and it was a book called Cleopatra's daughter. It was the very first research book that launched my career and started my Cleopatra's daughter. Sarah was her biography of Cleopatra and yeah, it was the same woman and I shrieked. As if this story had been waiting for me to discover it all along. And so at that point, I knew that this was a story about three women, who all found a home at, Lafayette's birth place and who preserved it in three of history's darkest hours.

Susanne 14:26

Wow.

Stephanie 14:30

I know I was very fun and I still am. I still am it, even now that I've written the story, there's so much more to think about and to tell these were extraordinary women and. Their circumstances seems so relevant to ours now.

Susanne 14:47

Yeah, absolutely. let's shift from that to craft because, Oh my goodness. I am so impressed with how you managed to give each of those women, their own voice. I could have opened the book at any point and started reading without knowing whose story it was. And I would know right away. Can you talk a little bit about how you managed that?

Stephanie 15:13

Yes, I did something that I will never do again. I decided that, to keep the voices distinct. I would write the three stories separately and then figure out how to entwine it. And then later this, I think did what I intended it to do, which was to preserve a certain cadence and way of speaking. For example, Adrian Lafayette in the, 18th and 19th century has a very formal way of speaking. Very similar to the way that, Eliza Hamilton spoke in MITRE, Hamilton and Beatrice. let me skip over Beatrice. Adrian has that tone for Marta, my world war II heroine. She has a very snappy, sarcastic, 1940s voice. For Beatrice though, I had the advantage in that I had her letters. I had, discovered at cache of Beatrice's letters at the New York historical society. And I also was extremely fortunate in that I reached out to be a traces, grandson, William master Chandler, the third. And he very generously shared with me personal, family letters. And so I was able to incorporate a lot of Beatrice's own words into her narrative. And so she sounds very much herself and she's far funnier than I am. So I'll follow the witticisms in her chapters are all belonged to her.

Susanne 16:50

Wow. Yeah. Now it really comes across very well. So then you said you're never going to do this again.

Stephanie 16:57

Why? the, why is that once I was done, I now had three stories and no story structure to twine them together. And so I had to, first I wove together Beatrice and Adrian story, and I started wondering if. The world war II story was maybe even its own, story, because I realized that the book was getting long. And I didn't think I could, I didn't want to give short shrift to any of these ladies. They were all so extraordinary that I needed to include them. So eventually we talk it through and we decided, the book is just going to run a little long because they all are part of the same story and part of the same legacy. And then we had to figure out what order these chapters came in and I'll admit that was quite a struggle. one of the things that makes me giggle in some of the early reviews as, they've been very good reviews, so far knock on wood, but a number of them say, She effortlessly weaves these points of view together. And I want to say, I am sure you, it was not effortless. Many tiers were spent in reordering these chapters over and over again until eventually it made sense that. Marta is the sort of framing story. She is the world war II heroine who needs the stories of the other two women to find her own courage, to do what she does in saving the Jewish children,

Susanne 18:35

who. Yeah. but that's the thing when it's done really well, the reader thinks that it's effortless that yes, that it just poured out of the office, like you just sat down one day and wrote the book,

Stephanie 18:51

that did not have, I don't

Susanne 18:52

know, but yeah, no. that was something that really stood out to me. And, you mentioned the letters and everything in that extraordinary. Circumstance that she wrote about Cleopatra's daughter. What other sort of, and the New York historical society. I had a, we had a great conversation about research and in the last podcast, and everybody gave their sort of favorite kind of research, tips and tricks. And what are yours?

Stephanie 19:22

I'm going to tell you a doozy of a story that came with the research for this book. When I first discovered Beatrice Chandler's letters. I started out with the family letters that her grandson shared with me and the story arc seemed, pretty obvious to me. It looked as if this was a very well healed, wealthy lady who had a struggling marriage whose marriage somehow survived. world war one and perhaps came out stronger because of it. And I thought, okay, I understand that story. And so I wrote that story and then I went to the New York historical society, and I found a cache of papers that were unlabeled except for they were in a Valentine's folder and they were from a French officer at the front. And it soon became obvious to me. That, this French officer seems to have been in love with Beatrice and it looked as if they might have had a secret relationship. Now I wasn't entirely sure. So I took the family letters. And I transcribed them and re ordered them in a spreadsheet. And these two sets of letters fit like a zipper together. And I realized, I had discovered, a century old secret love affair, which is very awkward to tell the family by the way, just, but I thought, okay, now the story is that. This is a very wealthy, philanthropic woman who found, found love during world war one outside of her marriage. But for some reason it didn't work out and she stayed with her husband. So now it's a tragic love story. So I wrote that story and I thought all was well because the book was due. And just before I was to turn it in. I got a phone call from Beatrice's grandson. And he said, when you went to the New York historical society, you found a family tree that you didn't recognize and you sent it to me. what I didn't tell you is that I did recognize one of the names on that tree. And I went down the research rabbit hole myself, and I have discovered that my grandmother had a secret identity. She was not who she said she was.

Susanne 21:47

She

Stephanie 21:48

was in fact, born under a different name. She was born into poverty and she was lying about who she was her entire life. he was quite nervous. I think about this. He thought perhaps readers would think corely of his grandmother, but I was immediately quite touched because suddenly Beatrice made sense to me in a way that she had never made sense to me before I suddenly understood why this woman dedicated her whole life. To saving orphan children because she had been one and I was again, deeply moved by that story. And so even though it meant that I had to rewrite the whole book a third time tension on my deadline, it made it a much more beautiful story. And I felt like. I got to tell Beatrice's truth for the first time. And so I was very moved by that whole research experience and it really showed me the contributions that historical authors really can make because no one else would have asked those particular

Susanne 22:56

questions. yeah. A lot to think about. and it's, it really is a gripping story. all three of the women have. Just incredibly powerful stories and when does it, when does this come out?

Stephanie 23:13

It's going to come out in March of 2021.

Susanne 23:15

Okay, great. I will definitely put all that stuff in the show notes and everything, but I also want to ask you what's coming next. What are you working on?

Stephanie 23:26

this one really rung me out. I've been taking some time. I know that there will probably be another founding mother book, in my future with Laura coin, to continue our founding mothers series. but as for my next solo novel, I'm not quite sure. So stay tuned.

Susanne 23:48

Yeah. there must be a point at which you feel so immersed in research that it's almost overwhelming.

Stephanie 23:56

Yes. and especially when you have three heroines, it did feel like writing three books.

Susanne 24:01

Yeah. and it's long enough to be three books, for sure.

Stephanie 24:06

pretty here. Yeah.

Susanne 24:07

But every, but it's enjoyable start to finish. it's a really, page Turner really. And, and that's not easy to do as we all know. Yeah. just to tie things up, would you. Do you have any kind of words of wisdom or advice for other historical novelists? Anything that you can any or anything else you want to talk about

Stephanie 24:31

briefly or, Oh, goodness. advice. I think that it's important to find a story that you feel so passionately about that you can live with it for about a year, because I think that's about how long at least. It generally takes to write a really, strong work of historical fiction. there are some prodigies out there who do it faster. I don't happen to know any of them. even Kate Quinn, who is herself, a little project prodigy, she generally takes about a year. To finish a novel. so you'll be living with these characters, these people, this time period for a long time. And if you're anything like me, there's gonna come a time in your manuscript when you hate it. You wonder why you ever started this monstrosity. so if you don't have some sort of emotional touchstone, something to return to, it'll be harder to get through it. every time that I. Felt really dispirited on this project. I was able to reach inside myself and remember those moments when I was really moved to tears. By the story of this amazing Chateau and the women who defended it.

Susanne 25:45

That's great advice. And, it's something I don't think people really understand, especially readers that it's like, when's your next book coming out? It's takes a little bit of time, but, but also, The necessity for passion in whatever you write, because writing a book, whether it's contemporary or whatever is hard work, it's really hard work. And you have to be, completely bought into whatever story it is you're telling in order to get through it. For sure. Yeah.

Stephanie 26:18

It's hard work physically sometimes. and I don't think we talk about that as much, but writing a book forces you to sit and. To hunch over and to type, and it does require a lot of endurance and at least for me, sometimes even a lot of pain.

Susanne 26:34

Yeah. Yeah. speaking of that, I'm getting a pair of computer glasses because I can't, I've been getting headaches, just looking at the computer screen, definitely can be physically difficult and finding the right place to work and everything. Oh, and that's the other question I wanted to ask you. Okay. So I was definitely a person who, even though I have a lovely home with spaces where I can work, it can be very distracting to be at home and being in, trying to get into in the zone. So I used to. Grab my iPad and go to the library or a cafe or whatever. And of course that's not really something I can do right now. Have you had any similar, what's your way of writing and how do you work best and how has it changed during this pandemic period?

Stephanie 27:21

I often write right here. You're looking at my office, although our listeners cannot see it.

Susanne 27:29

it's really nice. It's a really nice office with comfortable looking chairs.

Stephanie 27:36

I right here. I have a nice view of the woods out my window. and that's the only daylight that I see for long periods of time when I'm writing. I do sometimes, at least before the pandemic, I used to spend some time at, Panera bread where I would meet up with Laura Moya or my other writer, friends. Eliza Knight and, Kate Quinn. And I used to have sort of a standing date that we would meet at an era and that, that gave us a little variety and a little change of scenery and creative spark. but with the pandemic, that's really not possible. I've just been staying at my desk and occasionally making use of my patio in my deck having to rediscover the great outdoors. But I do worry about the winter coming because we're all going to be bundled up inside all the time.

Susanne 28:28

I know. I know. I'm not looking forward to winter at all. it's really good to be able to just sit and concentrate and get really deeply into what you're doing and, people who can do that. Definitely have a gift. Yeah. So

Stephanie 28:47

it's one or the other.

Susanne 28:49

Oh yeah. It could be that too. Yeah. Exactly. But anyway, I don't want to keep you much longer. This was a really great discussion. I'm so excited to have learned all that stuff about the research and what you discovered. it's just amazing. And, yeah, I, the book is fabulous, as I say, and I'm very fortunate to have been able to read it early on and I will, definitely shout it from the rooftops and everything like that. I really appreciate you taking the time to come and talk to me. thank you.

Stephanie 29:22

Thank you very much for the chat and thank you for all you do for books.

Susanne 29:26

Thank you. You, I, I do it because I love it. That's you know, it's not a sacrifice to be able to talk to people like you anyway.

Stephanie 29:37

Okay. Okay.

Susanne 29:38

Take bye. Have a great day.

Stephanie 29:40

You too.