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The Film Nuts Podcast
Your host Taylor D. Adams talks to artists, musicians, writers and others about their favorite films and shows, and asks them to share how they have been inspired or affected. Hopefully we can get to the root of why we love what we watch, why we’re crazy about a movie or *nuts* about a show…get it?
The Film Nuts Podcast
THE TRUMAN SHOW with Derick McDuff
What if your entire life was a television show? The very thought sends chills down your spine, doesn't it? That's the premise that captivated audiences in 1998 with The Truman Show, and continues to resonate powerfully today. This groundbreaking film arrived during a fascinating moment in American culture—the pre-9/11 twilight of the 90s that gave rise to similarly existential works like The Matrix, Fight Club, and Dark City.
My conversation with writer and podcaster Derek McDuff explores how this Jim Carrey vehicle transcended its star's comedic reputation to deliver what Derek calls "baby's first existential crisis." We unpack the film's remarkable prescience in predicting reality television, social media culture, and our society's obsession with authenticity. The meticulously crafted world of Seahaven—an amalgamation of different American eras designed to evoke an idealized but ultimately artificial "American Dream"—serves as perfect metaphor for the comfortable lies we sometimes choose over difficult truths.
One of the most striking aspects of our discussion centers on The Truman Show's religious dimensions. Ed Harris's Christof functions unmistakably as a god figure, controlling his creation from a literal position in the heavens. When Truman ultimately chooses to leave his artificial paradise for the uncertainties of the real world, the film makes a profound statement about human agency and free will. That iconic final scene—where Truman ascends a staircase to the sky and exits his dome—still delivers emotional catharsis decades later.
Whether you're revisiting this classic or discovering it for the first time, our exploration illuminates why The Truman Show maintains its cultural relevance. In an era where we voluntarily broadcast our lives through social media and reality television increasingly blurs the line between authentic and manufactured experiences, Truman's journey from blissful ignorance to conscious liberation feels more meaningful than ever. Join us as we examine how this seemingly simple premise evolved into one of cinema's most thought-provoking meditations on reality, authenticity, and what it truly means to be free.
Derick's Podcasts!
- Underrated Movie Podcast
- the one with me yapping about Hercules
- The Midnight Film Society
- Infinity Stones and Dragon Bones Podcast
- Derick's Work for WatchMojo
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Get in touch by emailing filmnutspodcast@gmail.com or following us on Instagram and TikTok @filmnutspodcast.
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Good morning, morning, good morning, oh, and in case I don't see you, good afternoon, good evening and good night. I talked to somebody at work yesterday about this movie and they were like, yeah, I kind of don't want to watch that movie because I would feel like I would be really paranoid watching it. There was a lot of movies that came out around this time that deal with these concepts of like. You've got to question things around you. Especially in the USs, people were looking at their own lives. There's got to be more to the world than just this kind of like day in, day out, like I'm going to my job type thing hey folks, welcome back to the film nuts podcast.
Speaker 2:I'm your host, storyteller and filmmaker, taylor d adams. Thank you so much for joining me today, so this episode should be a lot of fun. I say that about all the episodes, but I really truly feel that way about what is coming today. To start things off, I don't know about you, but I've never, really ever once, wondered if my life is real or not. It's kind of a strange thing to say, but I honestly don't know why I would ever think that if I did, I feel like things would have to be a little too perfect, a little too neat, a little too tidy and a little too smiley.
Speaker 2:The Truman Show starring Jim Carrey is about a man whose seemingly idyllic suburban life is in fact a reality show watched by millions all over the world, and the title character of Truman has no idea. That is until the scenes start to show a little bit. The Truman Show has such an adult vibe, for lack of a better term. It explores themes of existentialism and purpose, but it wraps it all up in this kind of packaging that really makes an impression on those first learning about what the world is. This was the feeling my guest today had. Derek McDuff is a podcaster and writer who cites the Truman Show as basically baby's first existential crisis. Derek is a lover and student of film and television, so for this film to be ranked one of his most loved, that comes with high, high praise, derek. And I talk about the film's science fiction roots, cheesy product placement and is there a God? So one ticket to Fiji, please. Here's Derek McDuff talking about the Truman Show on the Film Nuts podcast.
Speaker 1:Things are going swimmingly. You know still plugging away at the podcast, having a good time with that writing when I get a chance. So no complaints. And it's summer movie time, so I'm getting to go see. A lot of good movies are coming out. What are you?
Speaker 2:most excited about.
Speaker 1:I think probably Jurassic World, really know, because I love that. I love that, I love the Jurassic Park movies and even when they're bad which they are, you know, at least every other one I feel like they're still fun, you know, and when they're good, they're great. So you know.
Speaker 2:Okay, I respect that I um, I don't know if I'm gonna go down that rabbit hole this summer, but, uh, if, if, if I hear from you it's a good time, I will go check it out and and no more chris pratt.
Speaker 1:They've got scarlett johansson and rupert friend in there, so I'm excited yeah, different lineup uh that should definitely be interesting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, uh, you, you mentioned the podcast. Uh, underrated movie podcast is the one that I was on, which I greatly appreciate you uh allowing me to talk about hercules for a little while, um, but I know that's not the only podcast you're doing. Yeah, what else are you working on?
Speaker 1:I do. I do a few, yeah, so underrated Podcast, like you said, is the main one. But I also do another podcast with my friend Damien called the Midnight Film Society and that's more like oh, summer, movies are coming out, we're talking about the new releases and stuff like that. I also have a Patreon where I do a bonus podcast called Across the Second Dimension, where I look at movies that were released in 3D and talk about them and see how they hold up in 2d. I just did an episode on captain eo.
Speaker 1:That was a ton of fun wow so, uh, that was I, that was every year I on the patreon. I like what? What kind of weird stuff can I talk about? That won't be last a whole podcast, but I can do for for a while. I forgot one more podcast to infinity stones, dragon bones, where I talk about marvel stuff, because I just had an episode on thunderbolts which just came out. Uh, that one's infrequent whenever there's a new marvel thing. So, yeah, they're, I'm doing. I got a you know a lot of things in the fire right now that's awesome.
Speaker 2:So how? Okay, it's clear your life, your work. Movies are just everywhere. Um, how did you first get this passionate about movies?
Speaker 1:you know I've I've always just been, you know, a big fan of movies. I've loved watching them as a kid. Um, you know, my, my parents would always put on like raiders of the lost ark or star wars, or you know, jurassic park was one of the first movies I think I ever saw in a theater. You know I was like three when it came out and just, you know, it know, it was always like they weren't like big, you know, movie snob people we weren't watching, like, you know, necessarily like these, like auteur movies, like I didn't watch like Brief Encounter or something as a kid, but I watched a lot of these kind of like iconic movies. You know Princess Bride, these cultural touchstones, and I just love movies and you know I would go to.
Speaker 1:I worked at a movie theater when I was a teenager.
Speaker 1:That was like my first job in high school and college and you know I wanted to be an actor for a while.
Speaker 1:I really wanted to be in movies for a minute and I, you know, studied acting for a couple semesters before I switched over to be an English major to focus more on the writing side and as it went along, you know I so I was a writer and I loved movies and then eventually just started kind of like writing about movies.
Speaker 1:And then that became when podcasting became a thing. I was like, well, let me start talking about movies. And yeah, so it's always been a passion in my life and over the years, you know, I did eventually go back and watch Brief Encounter and get more film knowledge and stuff like that and watch all these kind of like classic films. You know and I always try to, you know, stay as knowledgeable as I can about movies and you know, with my English background I might not have as much of a technical side of movies movies from my education but I try to make up for that by reading stuff like in the blink of an eye by walter murch or adventures in the screen trade by william goldman all these great books on film so I mean, yeah, movies around you.
Speaker 2:From an early age I had a similar kind of experience with jurassic park, like it's one of the. It's actually a funny story, like I I think I was when did it was like 94 93 uh, 93 the first.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, so I was.
Speaker 2:I was six and I, you know, as a six-year-old, I fucking love dinosaurs, and so I really, I really wanted to see this movie, and my, my mom, my stepdad, knew that I wanted to see it. So they decided that we're gonna go see it to see if, like it goes, it was PG-13 or whatever. So they're like to see if a six year old can handle it, or whatever. And they went and they enjoyed it. But they said at one point it got so scary that the woman sitting next to my stepdad, like involuntarily, like dug her nails into his arm, like, and so they're like, ok, we're going to wait a couple of years.
Speaker 2:I was like so, anyway, got to see it later. It was great. Um, so what? I mean, you were exposed to all these just basically like fun, like pop culture movies, like this movie is out, going to go see it. So what was it about these things that made you think, oh, I really want to pursue a career around this, this around this culture, around movies and television and what have you?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it was just something where, you know, I I just kind of got so engrossed in it and the storytelling, like it's just such a. You know it's a relatively young medium. You know, like you had novels and plays and things like that around for you know, thousands of years, uh, and movies have been around for over 100 years, like two, like just under 200 years. You know, like movies have been a medium and I think that we are now kind of really starting to figure out like how do we like tell these stories in a really interesting way? You know, with my background in, you know, when I studied acting it was mostly in theater, so I came at it from that point of view.
Speaker 1:But I was like you can do so much more interesting stuff by like you know the way you place your camera and things like that. And I was really and you know just you can place your camera and things like that. And I was really and you know just you can tell these unique, interesting stories through film and TV that you wouldn't be able to necessarily tell through another medium, and I and you could just throw on a movie. I, just as much as I'm a huge reader, I love to just like watch a movie and just get completely taken into that world. Go on this, and whether it's like a crazy sci-fi thing that you would never be able to see, or if it's just like, hey, this is like a slice of life, this is like a very realistic quote unquote story, I'm always really invested and I wanted to like analyze that and look at it from an angle where I could really understand why these people are telling these stories and what kind of stories they're trying to tell.
Speaker 2:That's great. So, with all that, why did you want to talk about the Truman Show today?
Speaker 1:Yeah, truman Show is actually one that I, you know, I did grow up with, and so it's a movie that I had my whole life and it's it's a movie that it wasn't one of my first, I think, introductions to existentialism like, like, and because there was a lot of movies that came out around this time in the like, the last two or three years of the 90s, that deal with these concepts of like, what, if like, everything around you like, is you got to question things around you, what is the meaning of the world? Like, what is this thing you know? So, obviously you have this. You have and movies that you wouldn't necessarily, at first blush, pair with this but I think are actually very similar stuff, like the matrix or fight club or dark city. You know they all come out in 98, 99, and they're all part of this trend of we're at the 90, we're at the end of the 90s, it's before 9-11 has happened, the Cold War has been over for a few years.
Speaker 1:So I think that especially the US was very introspective. People were looking at their own lives, at existing, and all those you know movies to some degree are about existing in this kind of suburban world, this very like, and you know, obviously this movie is all, it's all crafted, you know, it's all done for Truman and looking at the world and being like, is this the real life that I have? Like, is this real, like, is this just, you know, not literally, I'm not saying, you know, like, oh, like, I actually believe I'm in the Truman Show, but, like you know, there's got to be more to the world than just this kind of like day in, day out, like I'm going to my job, type thing.
Speaker 2:The people on the elevator. There was no backing on it. I looked out, there was people there and on the radio on the way to work starts following me along talking about everything that I'm doing.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean. Now, Truman, look, this is one of your fantasies.
Speaker 2:I think this is about my dad, your dad. I think he's alive. Yeah, I'll tell you about it later.
Speaker 1:I just really really love this movie. I I'll tell you about it later I just really really love this movie. I think it's one that you know it's not like it's gone away necessarily, but I don't think it's as popular as it was. But I think that the whole Truman Show phenomenon that happened, where people, like I said in middle school I was like, am I on the Truman Show? Like that's not an uncommon thing.
Speaker 1:I talked to somebody at work yesterday about this movie and they were like yeah, I, uh, I kind of don't want to watch that movie because I would feel like I would be really paranoid watching it. And I I think it really that part of the movie you're like really hit on something like deep in our psychology, of just like, like, and I think part of it's like everybody kind of like like marlin says like wants to be the main character, but part of it is just like man there there is just like something off and like I gotta figure out what it is, and so I think that this movie really does get to the core of a lot of people's. You know, not psychoses, but just kind of like their way of thinking.
Speaker 2:Okay so take me back to do you remember the first time you saw the truman show?
Speaker 1:I was trying to think about like the very first time, because I think this I I don't remember it exactly, but I remember watching it at a very young age because the movie comes out. I'm like eight years old and I don't think I saw it in theaters, but I know my mom really liked it and you know, this is to me a time when I'm like, oh, like jim carrey is like the funny goofy guy like he's the guy who does all the voices, you know he's.
Speaker 1:He's like mocking batman with his butt, like he's doing all this stuff, you know, and so and he's there's still, like he's still jim carrey, but he's much more toned down in this movie and between this and another movie we've covered, eternal sunshine, which I saw when I was like a teenager. I really came to appreciate him a lot more as an actor and I remember, yeah, just being a young kid being like, wow, this is like an absolute trip. You know, I think I was maybe like 10 or 12 when I eventually did see it and thinking about, like, like you know, it was kind of like baby's first existentialism like you know, like this is like it was introducing me to all these concepts at a young age, about thinking about the world through a a much different lens.
Speaker 1:Um, and yeah, just I remember you know my mom loving it, my dad liking and I was really just very engrossed watching it on my, you know, you know full screen like tube tv.
Speaker 2:I know sometimes it's hard to like kind of revert back in our heads about like what were we, like, you know, at this certain age? But you're, you know you had family, appreciate it, you were, you were thinking it was a trip, like was there, was there, so what was it about it that made you like appreciate it for what it was? Because, yeah, like you said, it's not classic Jim Carrey, this is a very it's a very adult movie when, regarding themes, but for some reason, like as I mean, I think I saw it when I was like maybe like 13 or something and so like it really took a hold of me. So what do you think it is about? This? Such like existential concept can even connect with someone who's like prepubescent or early teenage years.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think I definitely saw it at like the right time. You know, like I'm 10 or 12 or whatever, so that's like right at the time when you're like start to really become you know, become for lack of a better word a person. I'm not just like, hey, I like this movie because dinosaurs.
Speaker 1:I'm like oh, there's some deeper things going on here. And, yeah, this movie if I was younger there would probably not be a lot for me other than maybe some jokes and stuff, but there was some really deep stuff that I was kind of like, huh, that's very interesting. And I was kind of like, huh, that's very interesting. And the scene that I was, even from a young age, always stuck with me is the scene where he's talking to the guy playing Marlin, his best friend.
Speaker 2:The point is, I would gladly step in front of traffic for you, Truman, and the last thing I'd ever do is lie to you, and the last thing that I would ever do is why do you?
Speaker 1:I mean, think about it for a minute, if everybody is in on it I'd have to be in on it too and it's such such a heartbreaking scene and he's giving such a great performance and you're like, okay, well, you want to believe him.
Speaker 1:The same time you're cutting and this is the first time this really happens in the film you're cutting to Kristoff, just like in his ear, which I don't know how he's talking to him. That's a whole other thing, but he's like telling him exactly, he's like feeding him his lines and it's just such a betrayal that I was just like remember as a kid being like, wow, this moment, which should be this beautiful moment between the two of them and it's about it not being fabricated is completely fabricated and that really had a big impact on me. And I just remember really being interested by you know, the whole themes and the acting, and like there was a while when you know, as a kid, as like a young teen, I was just like, well, what if I'm on the Truman Show? Like what if? Like that's a thing you know, like because, like you know, you watch that movie. You're like you never know they could do it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like the whole. We can't question the technology of how this was made because there's a lot going on and I'm like where is the camera? Is it a?
Speaker 1:button Like what. It's either the most obvious thing ever where he's like there's like a neighbor holding the trash can, or it's just like whatever like, yeah, just go with it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we quite question it, and I think that's what's really fascinating about this film too. Is that, um, it's, it's simultaneously showing us a fictional story about Truman, but it's it's also a movie about the fictional story of Truman. So there are these like meta levels that are interesting to poke at, um, but you can't question too much of like where is, where is the line between the two? I think, um, but yeah, yeah, that scene you were talking about with, uh, his friend marlin, is, yeah, it's a heartbreaking scene and it was fascinating, is like for me at least. I'm watching this scene.
Speaker 2:This was, I think I'd only I re-watched it, obviously for our chat, but I think it was only the second time I'd seen it. I hadn't seen it in a very long time. So I was watching this and I was like, I mean, I know how it ends. Yeah, it's, it's, it's an iconic ending as well, visually, so we're aware of it. But I'm thinking and I'm watching marlin say all these things, even though they're christoph's words, and I'm believing him, even though I know it's not real. And so a part of me is like what if, like, the guy that's playing marlin actually does feel this way, like where is, like, how blurred is the line between truth and reality? And I think one thing that just kind of one thing that breaks it is actually, uh, the prop that marlin always has with him is beer.
Speaker 1:He always has a six pack of beer, or at least a can of beer, but the product placement in this film, of these fictional things, uh, really is funny yes, it's, it's very and like this movie feels like it predicts a lot of things like from like the product placement in this, where there's, just because you know it's, it's really, it's like a clever word, like, well, how would you have the show without you know any commercials? Like well, product placement.
Speaker 1:And now I always said that was the thing before this movie comes out, but it's become so prevalent now where it's like you watch a transformers movie and like a mountain dew vending machine gets turned into a thing you know, uh, but it also think with reality tv, like the how, like reality tv was not really that a thing, like I guess there was like maybe the real world comes out like the year before yeah and I think, okay, yeah, survivor hadn't come out just yet, but it was like the next year it was close so, yeah, this is our kind of like predicting.
Speaker 1:So you watch it now you're like, wow, they really did know it was coming and I I love that. You know, talk about marlin, um, you know who's played by Noah Emmerich, who is great, like he's always like the best friend and stuff, but he's really fantastic and I think he's so like the way he does his like beers and his product. He just kind of like is like Truman, that is a beer, like he's. It's funny because I think he's playing a good actor who is able to naturally work in product placement. And then Laura Linney, who is a good actor, is playing a bad actor. So the character Hannah who's playing Meryl, she's not good. Hi, honey.
Speaker 2:Look what I got for you at the checkout. It's a chef's pal, it's a dicer grater peeler all in one. Never need sharpening, dishwasher safe.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's amazing and it's funny because it like it totally shows you like the quote, unquote right way to do product placement and the way that it just like breaks the immersion, um, and so I think that was really good because apparently laura linney like like studied like sears catalogs and stuff from like the 1950s that performance, yeah, yeah and then, and then you know, going back to noah emmerich, like he apparently, um, it's a, he does like a bunch of stuff that's like not even hinted at in the movie where he was like for it's like, yeah, for my character, like he was, he said he was like an alcoholic or recovering alcoholic because he got really jealous of truman and he's like this.
Speaker 1:So he, you know, he knows the whole thing. He's like I kind of wanted it to be the merrill show but it never was going to be. Like he wrote that into his character and I think that's that is the sign of really good acting is where you put all this stuff. That's not even that's not on the page, that's not gonna show up on the screen, but it's important to your performance and I think that all the performances in this really come across well yeah, so that's interesting you said that about um laura lenny studying like 50s series catalogs.
Speaker 2:Because the aesthetic in this film is so strange, because it's part like 1950s, early 60s, suburb, like like culture, but the cars are like still kind of 90s and the attire for a lot of people like there's a lot of plaid in this film, like there's a lot of really bright colors that I I don't think I've seen in any kind of movie or catalog before, and so it's this really strange structure I thought of like these different historical aesthetics just kind of blending together and I don't know if I'm reading too much into that. But I couldn't really place like why they chose. Like it seemed like they were choosing styles from three different decades over the course of maybe half a century and trying to fit them into one another and I wasn't really sure how to read that. But like I was just struck by this film is gorgeous and but none of it makes sense to me, like nothing was fitting together yeah, it's interesting because I was thinking about two in a similar vein.
Speaker 1:Like I was like where is this sea haven supposed to be?
Speaker 1:like obviously we know it's in, actually in la like behind the hollywood sign, but, like, where is like in the fictional reality of truman's world? Where does he think he does he think he's in may because, like you see a license plate, at one time point it just says sea haven, and so, and I think that, in terms of like the time period that it's emulating and the fact that it's like supposed to be kind of like whatever say I think it's supposed to be, that whole thing is like. It is this kind of like amalgamation of just different idealized quote-unquote american dreams, and to the point where, apparently, when they were like scouting the location, they were like having a really tough time finding it and, um, they were going to build it on a soundstage at universal studios, but then eventually they found, like, this master plan place in florida, and I feel like the whole combination of like what state is this? What time period is this? It speaks to what christoph is saying at the end when he's talking to truman and he's like I have created this kind of like perfect world. This amalgamation of like this is kind of this norman, rockwell-esque like elements, all these idealized things, this what we think of as america, you know it's.
Speaker 1:It's like what, when people say making america great, this is what they picture, an america that never actually existed. It's this fictionalized idyllic world and like all those other movies I mentioned, where it's like the matrix or, you know, dark city, this, this fictional world that's been created for these people, this fictional world that's been created for these people, things are not quite right. You're starting to realize that it's wrong and, over the course of the movie, truman realizes like no, this is messed up, this is fucked up. What's happening to me? I need to break out and get to the real world, and I love that. At the end, you know, kristoff, is like stay here, I've created this kind of quote unquote perfect world. The real world is the one that sucks. You know, chris Hoffman's like stay here, I've created this kind of quote-unquote perfect world. The real world is the one that sucks. You know, like, this is where you should stay. I was watching when you were born. I was watching when you took your first step.
Speaker 2:I watched you on your first day of school.
Speaker 1:The episode when you lost your first tooth.
Speaker 2:You can't leave, Truman.
Speaker 1:Please, gus, you belong here, you can do it With me and I love we never get to see Trumanuman out in the real world, like running around, being like, oh here's this, here here's, you know, like a street, like you know. You don't have that scene that you would have in a lot of other movies, it's just he just leaves and he's out in the real world and leaving behind this fake amalgamation of what we think the world should look like.
Speaker 2:So, from a metaphorical standpoint or allegorical, however you want to phrase it, what is Kristoff in this movie?
Speaker 1:I think Kristoff is God. I think because he's like. There's even that beat at the end when he says Truman, I am the creator of a television show. Like he leaves an intentional pause.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's that pause there and so he's kind of like always looking down on truman, like literally, like he's in his like little thing in the sky and he's cultivated and created this whole person's life and he he's controlling it and he's put he's literally like putting the fear of God in him like you can never escape. You've got to stay in, I think, and and I love that he's. You know, it's, it's kind of this, it's it's it's really great, because I feel like the movie with Kristoff and Truman is kind of giving you this whole thing about like is there free will, will, right? Because Kristoff is kind of like, yeah, he could leave anytime he wants to if he really wanted to. At the same time, he is doing everything in his power to make sure that that never happens, to the point where he almost kills him when he is about ready to leave. Give me some light again. Get him again god's sake, chris.
Speaker 2:The whole world is watching. We can't let him die in front of a live audience.
Speaker 1:He was born in front of a live audience so I think that Kristoff is kind of this stand-in for God or the universe or whatever being this, or the non-existence of free will, fighting against you and, like you know, get against this. You know, old Testament style vengeful God and escape. So I think Kristoff is really interesting and Ed Harris's performance is fantastic.
Speaker 2:Are you someone who subscribes to the idea of a God or a universal rule, or what are your thoughts on free will? This is a deep question. Yeah, right, yeah, subscribes to the idea of a god or a universal rule, or what are your thoughts on free will? These are the deep questions.
Speaker 1:Yeah right, yeah. So I I was definitely like raised religious, like casually religious though, like I'm like because, like my parents, like my mom was raised mormon and my dad was like ray, like born in like the south, so both from very religious upbringings, and so I felt like they were kind of like well, we gotta impart this on to our kids, so we'll go to church sometimes, you know. So it was like and it was always think of, uh, when I think of how religious was, I think of that scene in 40 old virgin, when kat dennings gets in trouble and her mom's like we're going back to church, like that's about the level of religion that I grew up with and I've always kind of I stopped. That stuff has always stuck with me. But I don't necessarily believe in like a dude in the clouds, like watch walking down and being like all right dude.
Speaker 1:But I believe there's something out there, right? I believe there's some kind of higher power, there's some kind of you know, I don't want to call it destiny or whatever, but that there's, you know there's. There's some kind of you know, not necessarily order, but some kind of like something in the universe that keeps it going and I people. Some people might call that god. People like other religions might interpret it a different way. I think that we all kind of look at it through a different lens, but ultimately I'd say I'm kind of agnostic, I'm like I don't know. Seems like there's something out there, but maybe I'm wrong. Maybe people who think there's nothing out there are right, could be, maybe somebody who has a completely different idea is right, you know.
Speaker 1:So, um, yeah, and ultimately and it comes to free will, I think I think we do have free will, but I think that it's something where it's like you can maybe predict, um, what someone's gonna do, what's like what things are gonna happen, but I don't think that necessarily um takes away from free will. Uh, and to kind of talk about another show that you know, uh, we, that we talked about maybe doing, but we didn't like, there's this whole fifth season of lost, where that involves time travel in a really interesting way. That, I think, asks you is there free will or is it predetermined? And I think, um, you know, you can kind of maybe do both, although that sounds contradictory. That's kind of what I. You can kind of maybe do both, although that sounds contradictory. That's kind of what I believe.
Speaker 2:What kind of were you inspired at all by this film? Kind of from the filmmaking standpoint or a film analysis standpoint?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would say I was definitely inspired because, you know, this movie has so many interesting and deep themes and I was like I really want to analyze this. And that's one of the reasons when, you know, when we were talking about, like, what would you like to talk about? You know, it's always been one of my favorite films, you know from right when I saw it, and it's one that I've never gotten a chance to talk about before. You know, like I've I've guessed it on a ton of podcasts. Obviously I have a few of my own and I've never gotten a chance to talk about the Truman Show or, you know, analyze it in any in-depth way. And so I was like, well, this would be a really good shot. I was definitely really inspired and so it also, I think, does a lot of smart stuff.
Speaker 1:Like it inspired me from like a writing perspective, where, looking at the script process for this and you know, obviously peter weir is, you know, very involved in how this comes together. He's the director, but he didn't write the script, um, andrew nickel wrote the script and looking at the development of it, how it starts, is like kind of a very more sci-fi s script, and he has went through like dozens and dozens of drafts to get to where it was today and I think that the sci-fi stuff is really cool. Like you know, that would have been interesting. Like you get something similar with dark city, but you it also. I think is it a really good exercise in how can you take this kind of big existential on his face, something that should be a sci-fi concept, and more or less ground it in reality and give you those same existential themes and these themes of like god and like free will and destiny and you know your life being all a simulation and have it be grounded in 1998, los angeles yeah, like that's.
Speaker 2:That's always interesting to me is films that like present certain like sci-fi tropes or like there's like elements of all these things. But the movie itself keeps itself very grounded and like very approachable for a lot of reasons, and I think one of the reasons actually like casting jim carrey, like he's just like he's at this point a goofball, like he's almost everyone's favorite goofball to watch on tv and then film, and I think it is a lot. He has a lot of work trying to like be silly. But also it does come across to me as like a veneer of almost like how someone, of almost like how someone should act when they have all these things that we're supposed to want.
Speaker 2:Like going back to like this analysis of like the Amer, this metaphor of the American dream, or whatever, like it's a little over the top. He's like waving to his neighbors every morning and saying the exact same thing and smiling really widely, going through the exact same motions, and we're supposed to feel like this is what we want. And then very quickly we're introduced to the fact that he's like he's actually secretly looking for something else and he's not even sure exactly what that is. And even early on in this film. When the light drops, when the light drops from, however high up that uh, uh, that light grid is, um, if we had no idea what this movie was when we first started watching it, that would, that would immediately clue us in to what is this? Yeah, and I feel like that lends itself to those science fiction type things, those fantasy type things. Um, so if you were Truman, how long do you think it would take you to figure out what's going?
Speaker 1:on. Ok, that's, that's. That's a really good question, right? Because, yeah, like Truman, like they say, this is like season 30. So I guess that's implied that Truman's 30 years old, you know.
Speaker 1:I don't know, like I'm, like I would, I feel like maybe I would figure it out when I was like a teenager, a teenager, and I was like starting to get more like aware of the world. But you know, like it's easy to say that you know, because and I love that they do like kind of, like, you know, say that they are doing things to keep Truman from figuring this stuff out and to like artificially keep him on this island, like they have the whole thing where they, you, you know, kill off his dad to make him afraid of water and because they're like, yeah, he's naturally curious, he wanted to go explore. And that's how I am too, like I want to go, like explore the world and find out these interesting things. Um, so I don't know, I I don't know if you ever saw like the joe schmoe show, or or a more recent example would be jury duty, where they have a jury duty, yeah, jury duty, which is incredible, yeah, and it's.
Speaker 1:You know, those are both like these fake reality shows where there's like one contestant on them who is actually the only contestant, and it's like the truman show, but for like a reality show, and they're just kind of like realizing so and like in seat um, the reason that both those shows work is because they both both of them basically get like the most kind-hearted, just kind of like really good, like guy who also is just like kind of like, kind of a little bit of a doofus, you know, like in the best possible way and the reason that they in like when they did a second.
Speaker 1:This is like back in the early 2000s when they did a second season of joe schmo show. One of the reasons it didn't work is because, um, one of the contestants figured out she was like this is weird, things are happening on this show that don't make any sense, and she figured out it was like a fake reality show. So I like to think that I would be in the same vein and kind of figure it out a little bit quicker yeah, that's what I was thinking too is like, okay, yeah, how long would it take me?
Speaker 2:and I honestly have no idea. But like from the, from the movie's point of view, like we are shown something is wrong from like just something going from, something going wrong like out of their control, yeah, like the light falling, like that's a physical thing, that's like where the hell did that come from? And if he's like what does he know what that exactly is? And they have like the radio explaining him it came from a plane or whatever fuck. And then then we have our, our flashback scene with the, the woman he's truly attracted to in high school and truly interested in, and she's just acting strange to him would you want?
Speaker 2:to maybe possibly sometime go out for some pizza or something like Friday.
Speaker 1:Saturday, sunday, monday, tuesday.
Speaker 2:We have finals tomorrow. Yeah, I know, if we don't go now it won't happen. Do you understand? So what do you want to do Like it doesn't feel? To me, what felt more real was the light falling from the sky than her acting the way she did, because people can behave in strange ways, but if we see an actual, like physical thing, that's way out of place. I feel like that would start to question some things, and I don't know if truman just doesn't know anything about planes, that they don't have these like these stage lights attached to them or not. But yeah, I thought that was like kind of.
Speaker 2:it was like that was the first breadcrumb like the movie's, very careful but like okay, this is the first breadcrumb of uh him and you as an audience figuring out that like something else is, is going on here well, I, I like that you brought up sylvia.
Speaker 1:You know the kind of other love interests of his because, uh, and one of us is like, okay, like he, you know he he's kind of like had this brief romance with this, this girl, but also I feel like she kind of represents this freedom where everything else around him is so controlled, and like he is set on this path and he does this thing where you know the point where his wife is preselected for him, like, and he doesn't even like, really like her, like it's clear he doesn't like his wife and he's just like and he says to her like you don't even like me either.
Speaker 1:Like what is happening, you know why do like and he says they're like you don't even like me either. Like what is happening, you know why do you have a want to have a baby with me? You hate me and you know, like to the point where his mom, his best friend, in that scene we already talked about, like the ultimate, like everything around him is so fake and then for one night he gets a glimpse of someone and something real and then he, like hyper, fixates on that for the next like 15 years or whatever, and obviously there's the other things that kick this into motion. But like I think that he's always kind of had doubt because of that night and because for once in his entire life something was real, and to the point where I love that when you know the guy, the other extra kind of like rolls up on the beach in the car and like drags her off.
Speaker 2:He's going to lie to you what's going on. I really would like to know what's going on. She has episodes.
Speaker 1:We tried everything, hypothism, everything.
Speaker 2:Don't listen to him, truman Don't worry, don't worry, you're not the first. You're not the first Truman.
Speaker 1:She here. What's he saying? Truman? He's lying. Get out of here, come on, don't worry, we're going to school, we're moving to fiji, like you know. He just kind of says we're going to fiji. You know, he just like throws it out because he's improvising, right, uh, and? And truman like hyper, like it was just some random thing he said, and he's like want to go to f, to Fiji, let's go to. And so I think that Fiji becomes this thing of like, fiji and Sylvia become this thing of like I can get out. There is this other world, beyond, something that I'm seeing and that leads to some really great scenes where he tries to leave and the bus breaks down and nobody can drive it, or like he goes.
Speaker 2:The driver looks so confused. Right Anytime he he has to operate a vehicle, it's so good.
Speaker 1:And then I think one of my favorite things is to when he goes to the travel agency and like all of the posters on the walls are like you're going to die, like the best, like the lightning strike hitting the plane is like it could happen to you.
Speaker 2:I know god is so funny, um, yeah, so, speaking of which, I mean we've talked about plenty of scenes and moments like do you have a single favorite scene or moment from this film?
Speaker 1:I, I think. So those are all great. I think the best scene is the last scene, right, because you know it's it's. You know that scene scene prior to it is he's like out in the waves. You know he's literally and figuratively crossing the threshold and getting through this like insane storm that Kristoff, slash, god or whatever has created for him to get through. And then finally that breaks and he's like free.
Speaker 1:And then the boat just like hits the wall, it crashes through and Truman's like what is this, you know, and the music, just the swelling music, just cuts out and you see him kind of like look and see, like the world, like the end of the world as far as he's concerned. He's like like what is this? And he's trying to like break out. The music comes back in and then you have that whole exchange with him and christoph where he's taught. He's like looking up in the clouds and like that's once again. It's like you cannot ignore the metaphors there and he's like speaking to this voice that is coming down to him and he just chooses to leave.
Speaker 2:In case I don't see you Good afternoon, good evening and good night.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he like what. He doesn't know what's out there in the real world. He's only lived his entire 30-year existence in this cultivated reality and he chooses to step out. And you know, you're as, you're getting that, you're also getting everybody who's swept up in this, everybody who's watching it, and I think this goes back to what we were talking about before, like the power of tv or film. You know, these people are so engaged with truman's life, they love his story. There's that whole bar. Uh, there's the japanese family which, by the way, I love, that like chosen from the karate kid 2 is. Yes, I was like that's chosen. Yeah, I was like hold on. But you know, and there's the guy in the tub. There's like the you know the parking garage guys, and it's this beautiful sweeping scene and he like, literally like kind of climbs the stairs in the sky and gets out, and then Sylvia runs down and it's like, like you know, they're going to there's implied they're going to find each other, and then it just ends like what else implied?
Speaker 2:they're gonna find each other, and then it just is like what else is on?
Speaker 1:yeah, let's do what else, and then the movie ends. It's perfect, perfect ending.
Speaker 2:10 out of 10 yeah, I, so I do love this. That ending scene specifically for me like cutting from all the reactions of the viewers, the fans, like, yeah, you do have people that are so invested in this show and then are invested in Truman that they you know it's a, it's a parasocial relationship. Like they're like, oh, we love this guy, like we want him to succeed no matter what it is, even if, like, the show's over. And then we have, like the guys in the parking garage that are like it's something they're watching, it's like that's all of it, like they're enjoying themselves, like they're being very entertained, but when it's over, they're like, okay, what is the next thing that we are going to participate in? Um, for you, like you know, lover of, lover of movie and TV shows and all all other kinds of pop culture stuff. Like how, how do you find a balance with what you're watching to be something you are truly invested in beyond when it is over?
Speaker 1:Ooh, that's a good question, because I do think that, like things should end right, like theories should not just keep going on to infinity, like you know, to infinity. And just like you know, at a certain point, the story of this character or this you know place or whatever has to end, and that is something I think about. It's like okay, like is this? Is there like more to think about with this, like you know, or is this like a contained thing? And I think that, yeah, yeah, like there's a reason why, you know, when something like star wars becomes as popular as there is, you know, this desire to like, let's keep it going, let's make all these books, let's do all these different things. And I and you know, because people are very interested, people are interested by, like, the lore and the themes and stuff, and I think sometimes that can be a little superfluous.
Speaker 1:But sometimes you can also get like with Star Wars, you can get Andor, which just wrapped up as we're recording this and I was like it's one of the most incredible TV shows I've ever seen. So you know, and that's while the story of Star Wars did wrap up. You know, we had three movies and then we had six movies and nine movies, but it's done at some point. You can still take things from that and extrapolate it in interesting ways, like they do with andor. This is a story that ties into that and it gives you a new perspective on it, but it's also its own really interesting thing yeah, yeah, I don't know if that made sense or if it answered your question.
Speaker 1:No, it does.
Speaker 2:It does it I, you know I was like, yeah, now I want to talk about andor. But I haven't finished. I haven't watched the last three episodes, but the three before that I was like fuck. Yes.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:I've got two left, so, okay, nice, um. So I'm thinking a lot about the like, the actors playing actors in this film and like, what are they like? What are they doing when the camera's not rolling? Like when they go home, where do they go? Are they going to their homes that are in the Truman Dome? Uh, because we have a scene where he tries to get on an elevator and there's like extras and someone taking a smoke break like behind the fake elevator.
Speaker 2:So I'm thinking about all these people that are kind of in this movie and how they, these actors that are actors in the movie, thinking about how they're behaving when they're not around Truman or not focused on kind of a on being on the Truman show, and it got me thinking about just how we behave when we're on camera. And the word authentic is really overused, but that's kind of what we're talking about here. Is this authenticity of the people that we are witnessing? Um, as someone who is hosts and is on multiple podcasts, you give, you know, multiple panels. Um, is there, is what we're seeing right now. Is it the real you?
Speaker 1:That's, that's a good yeah, that's a good cause. I think you know, as you know, as someone, like I said, I have a background in acting. I think that, subconsciously or not, like you're always kind of like not playing a part, but there there's certain things about yourself like whether it's like on a podcast or you know at work or however you want to do it that you're always kind of presenting, and I don't think that necessarily means it's not like the real you. It's just there's parts of yourself that you're not necessarily always showing, like I always think of.
Speaker 1:You know, one day at my day job I was like doing like an announcement and I was like hey, the store is gonna be closing and and one of my co-workers was like oh you, just your podcast voice, that's your body. And I was like oh you, just your podcast voice that's your body.
Speaker 1:I was like, oh, but you know it was. It was reminding me of something you were saying earlier, because obviously there's all these actors on the show. The one person who isn't an actor is Truman, but he is still performing in a lot of this. You know, when he goes into his job, when he's around his wife or anything, and you know, know, different people get different levels of authenticity. Probably the most, um, authentic he is around anyone is with meryl.
Speaker 1:He's like the one person who's kind of like really confiding in um, but I don't think even then he's like you know, fully himself, because you, it's like you said, like he's does that, like hey, like affable, like good afternoon, good evening, good night, you know, like that whole thing.
Speaker 1:But then you know, and he's doing his kind of more carry isms at that point.
Speaker 1:But then there's the times when he's just kind of like by himself and he's like ripping out the magazine, he's like trying to, when he thinks, you know, in these moments where we all have, where we're like we are truly alone, we are our quote-unquote authentic selves that nobody in the world might ever see, maybe our partner if that, but he's definitely not. Truman's not letting his partner see that. But he's just his real, authentic self in a moment that he thinks is just his own. And that's why I think you know, in the fiction of this, why people are so invested in truman is because you do get to see those moments of him being his real self, not putting on a performance, not doing his his stick at all. He's really being his true self. And I think that people love authenticity and you know the fictional viewers of the truman show are really eating that up. So I think, yeah, this is the real me, but it's, it's a part of the real me that's fair.
Speaker 2:That's fair well, derrick. Thanks so much, man. This was an absolute blast to to talk about this movie with you.
Speaker 1:I really, really appreciate it thank you, yeah, I I had a ton of fun. I I'm really glad you. Let me talk about this movie.
Speaker 2:If you're someone who might be thinking that your life is a lie or that you maybe wish your life was a lie, I just want you to know that the people closest to you love you. Our world can sometimes be safe little bubbles that are made to protect us, but it's okay to grow out of them. But even if you have the desire to move on or out or just grow beyond it, just know that the love of those closest to you will always be real. A huge thanks to Derek for chatting with me today and a Hollywood-sign-size Thank you to you for joining us. Before you go, please check out at least one of Derek's podcasts linked in the show notes. You could start with underrated movie podcast. That's the one I appeared on to talk about Disney's Hercules. If you enjoyed the show today, please go ahead and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform choice to stay up to date on all of our episodes. And if you happen to be listening to this on Apple Podcasts, please leave a rating and review to help us reach more awesome folks like yourself, and I produce all of these episodes out of my own pocket, but I do have some awesome patrons and you could be one of those too.
Speaker 2:For more information on supporting the Film Nuts podcast, as well as how you can get some cool stuff in return, check out patreoncom slash film nuts Our theme this season, is brought to us by J Mac, our artwork is designed by McDougall and all episodes of the Film Nuts podcast are produced and edited by me, taylor D Adams. If you want to get in touch, you can email film nuts podcast at gmailcom or follow us. I know it's a creepy word, but follow us on Instagram and TikTok at Film Nuts Podcast, and don't forget to join the Nuthouse Discord community absolutely free. It's so much fun to be there. I'm not just saying that, it's honestly true. You can check that out in the show notes, along with everything else. Thank you all again. So much for joining me today and, in case I don't see you, good afternoon, good evening and good night.