Building a Digital Economy on Trust with Nicole Murphy

In this episode of Shutter & Algorithms, I’m joined by Nicole Murphy, founder and CEO of Barter Black. We talk about what it takes to build a sustainable digital economy rooted in trust, transparency, and collaboration.

Nicole breaks down the real challenges facing today’s entrepreneurs and creators, including limited access to resources, marketplace inequity, and the pressure to do everything alone. She also explains why bartering can be a powerful tool for growth, especially for Black-owned businesses that often face unique barriers.

We discuss:

• How Barter Black started and why it matters

• The creator economy and the problems hidden beneath the surface

• Trust as a form of currency in modern business

• Why community-driven value exchange works

• How creators can grow without sacrificing integrity

• What the future of collaboration may look like

About Nicole Murphy

Nicole is the founder and CEO of Barter Black, a service exchange platform built to help Black entrepreneurs connect, collaborate, and grow without the financial gatekeeping that often stands in the way.

Connect with Barter Black:

Website: https://www.barterblack.io

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Transcript

Daniel Douglas (0:43.214)
Collaboration has always been the invisible currency behind great ideas. But what happens when collaboration itself becomes the business model? Today on Shutter and Algorithms, we're exploring how bartering, trust, and technology can reshape the way creators and entrepreneurs build together. My guest today is Nicole Murphy, founder and CEO of Barter Black, a visionary entrepreneur.
inventor and community wealth strategist redefining what ownership looks like in the digital age. Her story has been featured in Black Enterprise and Voyage Baltimore, and she's preparing to launch her new app in 2026. Nicole, welcome to Shutter and Algorithms.

Nicole Murphy (1:30.991)
Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here. ⁓

Daniel Douglas (1:34.894)
⁓ You know, I've been waiting for this for a while ⁓ and ⁓ I'm really excited about doing this. I'm looking forward to this conversation, especially because your story bridges community and innovation. And when we met, what, three weeks ago, ⁓ we talked about community. And when I finally walked over to your table and say, well, what is this all about? You started, you know, explaining it to me. So, you know, your purpose...
is really unique to me. And so I want to talk about the origin and the motivation behind Barter Black. So before Barter Black, you were thriving in the corporate world. Your bio says that you worked for Chrysler, Financial, Hazmed, Radio One, and you later built an application, I believe, called Homeshare 365 into a successful business.
And then we all know the pandemic hit, so that shut everything down, including myself and my photography business. So my first question is, what shifted for you during that time?

Nicole Murphy (2:50.102)
I what shifted for me was...
And you know, I was doing business. Yes, I was in the corporate world. I actually left the corporate world because I was actually fired from my job. So I had no choice but to go into entrepreneurship because I thought that my supervisor, the last supervisor I had was just so horrible. We did not get along at all. So I found myself in entrepreneurship. And I did so many things before I, you know,

Daniel Douglas (3:16.344)
been there.

Nicole Murphy (3:23.782)
got into Homeshare 365, which is a short-term property management company where we cleaned and manage Airbnb properties in the DC area. And when the pandemic hit, I think for the pandemic, when the pandemic hit, it gave us a lot of time to think and reflect and see where things are. And it's like the way Black entrepreneurs are doing business today, it's not sustainable.
⁓ It's not, ⁓ unfortunately a lot of us are acting as solopreneurs. We're the marketing, we're the branding, we're the accounting, we're everything in our business. ⁓ And it's like, how do you scale something that can be successful ⁓ if you're the one that's too busy trying to do ⁓ everything? ⁓ And one of the things I challenge people to think about is
where do you want this business to be? And unfortunately, a lot of our businesses die with us. spend so much, we sacrifice so much for these businesses that are only gonna go away once we pass away. So I wanna make sure that ⁓ we have a community, ⁓ a platform where we can grow in scale regardless of our budget, regardless of if we are able to hire.
⁓ And bring back Black Wall Street, bring back that community feel when we're actually growing and scaling our businesses.

Daniel Douglas (4:52.750)
⁓ That's interesting. you know, what was the moment that you, I guess, realized that bartering could become more than just an informal exchange, I guess I could say, that can actually redefine how entrepreneurship ⁓ sustains themselves? Because you talked about sustainability just now.

Nicole Murphy (5:16.706)
Yeah, that moment was in the pandemic when I'm to myself.
I'm struggling. My business had to shut down because of the pandemic ⁓ and I'm looking at my social media and I have all of these amazing entrepreneurs on ⁓ my social media accounts, but none of us are working together. All of us are trying to sell to one another. So ⁓ when you think about, and I had to sit and think about this too, the business communities that I've been in, ⁓ none of them really said, you know, how can you help that person or how
How can I help that person? None of them actually bridged the gap in bringing the community that is in the community together. ⁓ literally one day I'm just like, bothering. Like, you have a skill, I have a skill. Black people are the most creative, ⁓ smart people on this earth.
why aren't we building together? ⁓ Why are we so focused on, this is mine, I'm gonna build this on my own, I don't need anyone else? ⁓ That is not helping us at all. And I know other cultures don't build like that. So that's when I thought about bartering, and I thought about barter black.

Daniel Douglas (6:35.656)
It's interesting that you said that because ⁓ when I was working ⁓ full time in Washington DC, ⁓ I ran into a situation like that because sometimes we can be our own worst enemies. ⁓
I saw something today on YouTube, I won't mention it on this ⁓ interview, but it resonated with me. ⁓ And I said, why ⁓ are we doing this? We can, without getting into the whole racial thing and all this other stuff, we can do things ⁓ for ourselves. We don't have to wait for someone to do it. So that brings me up to another question. How did your background in finance and... ⁓
⁓ media influence ⁓ the way you built this community? Was there a specific story or entrepreneur that helped you see the power of barter ⁓ firsthand?

Nicole Murphy (7:38.309)
⁓ I wouldn't say necessarily someone made me see the power of Because one of the things that I do, I'm like very, ⁓ I'm very creative when it comes to business. And when I thought of Bart or Black, ⁓ I thought...
If I'm building a community where we focus on community, helping the community, each other helping each other, then why don't I bring community in to help me build ⁓ the community? ⁓ So I would say, especially now, ⁓ since we pivoted last year to the trade credit business model that we have.
We've only built and we have only been this successful that we are now because of the community. Because I said, hey, you have this skill, can you help me? Hey, you have this skill, can you help me? ⁓ I think ⁓ one of our downfalls is that we don't ask for help.
⁓ And I want to be that person that people sees, okay, yeah, she's gonna ask and if you ask her what she needs, she's gonna tell you exactly ⁓ what she needs, whether she has to get back to you ⁓ or not. But I think we need to ⁓ get better at asking for help because people don't know we need help unless we say we do. ⁓ So I would say as far as the barter black community, it is built on community with community for community.

Daniel Douglas (9:7.138)
So ⁓ let me understand something here. So Barter Black is more than just a platform, is what you're saying. It's more like, I guess I could say a living ecosystem.

Nicole Murphy (9:24.036)
⁓ would definitely say it's a living ecosystem. ⁓ When I think about our launch, and I'm sure we'll talk about that later, ⁓ now I'm building ⁓ a team around me. And they're not a team that I actually pay, ⁓ but they're a team who believes in my mission and in my vision and know ⁓ that ⁓ they can help me succeed. And ⁓ I'm just so thankful that people are around me that are like, ⁓ yes.
So even with this launch, I have an entire team. I don't have a budget for a team. Let's just say that. I built the Barter Black platform. I still use the Barter Black platform because we have a long way to go. But I challenge anyone listening to just ask for the help. You never know what people are gonna say or what they can offer.

Daniel Douglas (10:21.752)
Well, that's ⁓ a good segue into the next thing that I want to talk about. And that's technology as an enabler. Now, when you and I talked ⁓ three weeks ago, I told you I'm a bit of a nerd, you know, ⁓ and I'm all in on AI. ⁓ And ⁓ because I have a technology background, along with a long history of ⁓ photography as well.
So let's dig into, ⁓ you know, what's behind or I guess the engine or the technology behind ⁓ barter black. So for people who are new to the concept of bartering, how does bartering, how does the bartering process actually work? I know how it works, but I want you to explain it, especially when it comes to earning and trading barter bucks.

Nicole Murphy (11:20.258)
Yeah, great question. So for anyone who doesn't know what bartering is, it's the exchange of anything good, services, skills, ⁓ without the exchange of money. ⁓ What we did last year is we decided to pivot and switch that model because that's the model we had when we first launched direct exchanges. ⁓ But we found that that didn't work because you may be able to provide what I needed, but you may not want what I have. ⁓

Daniel Douglas (11:49.048)
Well, let me jump in here for a second. You said you changed the model. ⁓ So can you like go back a little bit and say what the old model was and what it is today?

Nicole Murphy (11:50.870)
Okay. Yes. ⁓

Nicole Murphy (11:58.605)
Yep. Yep. So ⁓ the old model was direct exchange. You and I come together, we exchange things at the same time for the same value. ⁓ We found through customer discovery that that wasn't working because again, someone may be able to help one person, but that person didn't want what that other person had in return. So it created a space where they actually would not barter. ⁓ So what we did last year, ⁓
We completely just started over ⁓ and we implemented our trade credits called barter bucks.
And on our platform one barter buck is equivalent to one dollar. So if you charge $1,000 off the platform, you're going to charge $1,000 on the platform. ⁓ Now how it works, this is the new business model. ⁓ Let's say you are a virtual assistant. You go online and you list your products or your services. ⁓ Similar to a freelancer platform, let's say 20 hours for 1,000 barter bucks. We're just going to make up
numbers. ⁓ You sell those services, you complete them, and then those 1,000 barter bucks are deposited into your wallet.
Once they are deposited into your wallet, you can spend them with anyone in the network. Whether it's branding, whether it's web design, whether it's legal help. They earn those barter bucks from you, they use them to purchase what they need, and then they use them to purchase what they need. So it creates a whole ecosystem where you don't have to find a direct match.

Nicole Murphy (13:34.550)
All you have to do is earn barter bucks by selling your products and services, essentially helping other entrepreneurs and then using those barter bucks to purchase what you need for your business. ⁓

Daniel Douglas (13:47.054)
So let me ask you this. This brings in ⁓ the trust question. So some people may say, okay, well, I buy into this system. ⁓ I have these barter bucks. How can I trust the system? How did you design that trust into the technology? ⁓

Nicole Murphy (14:8.822)
Yeah, great question.
⁓ So a few things happen. You have, of course you have your barter bucks. One of the things ⁓ we've kind of tried to implement things that will help you decide whether to use this person or not. So we have their website, they have their capability statement if they upload it. ⁓ They have their social so you can do your due diligence on whether you want to work with that person. ⁓ The second thing is that when you purchase something
someone, again similar to a freelancer platform, they do not get those barter bucks until you accept what they have provided. So if it's a product and you're happy with the product and you receive it, you click accept, those barter bucks go into their account. If it's a service, same thing, you accept it, those barter bucks go into their account. And then thirdly, we also have reviews on the platform.
as well. So you can look at members reviews and see what it was ⁓ like working with that person.

Daniel Douglas (15:14.766)
How many people do you have on the platform right now?

Nicole Murphy (15:17.346)
Right now it's about 80 people.

Daniel Douglas (15:19.630)
Okay. ⁓ And what's your strategy to increase ⁓ that number of participation?

Nicole Murphy (15:28.608)
Yes, so our strategy mainly is right now is ⁓ organic marketing through social media and our email marketing. We do run ads occasionally, but again, we are launching the app in February. So we are going to be ramping up our ads. ⁓ And then we are also, and I have not mentioned this anywhere yet, but we are also going to be doing a city tour in February after our launch.

Daniel Douglas (15:58.520)
Okay.

Nicole Murphy (15:58.533)
So we are going to be planting ourselves ⁓ in ⁓ five or six cities in February. we are going to, ⁓ Black History Month is gonna be amazing, but it's gonna be even more amazing for Barter Black because we want people in these particular cities to know that we are here. ⁓ And I think also our brand recognition, ⁓ one of the things that I'm very happy about is that when someone mentions
bartering on social media, they are mentioning barter black. So I'm very happy about that part.

Daniel Douglas (16:35.864)
We're going to talk about your app because that was the next question after this one that's coming up. But you and I talked offline ⁓ about patents. And so ⁓ you hold the design patent for your platform. Why was protecting your ⁓ IP, your ⁓ intellectual property, so important to you?

Nicole Murphy (17:3.298)
Well, I think the first thing for me ⁓ is...
that was something when you look back to our ancestors that was something that was stolen from us. Our inventions were stolen from us, our ideas were stolen from us. ⁓ So for me from that perspective it was very important. ⁓ And two, ⁓ I was lucky enough to be around people with patents and trademarks. I mean like 50 patents. I'm like wait a minute can I get one? ⁓
⁓ I don't even understand how I'm around these people, but ⁓ I've had the privilege of being around amazing black inventors. ⁓ So that motivated me even more. ⁓ And to be honest, I didn't even know that what I had was patentable. So I ended up going through a process ⁓ and was told that, we can patent this. And I'm like, ⁓
⁓ Okay, I'll take that. ⁓

Daniel Douglas (18:7.982)
⁓ It's one of those people that surrounded you ⁓ that held patents with one of them kind of instrumental in you seeking out a patent.

Nicole Murphy (18:19.500)
Yeah, think it was. I think ⁓ if I wasn't around ⁓ people who had already had patents, I probably would have never thought about it, honestly. ⁓ So ⁓ that laid way to... I want to be in the club. ⁓

Daniel Douglas (18:40.526)
Do you want to mention one? ⁓ Can you mention one?

Nicole Murphy (18:43.744)
Yeah, I mean if you, James Howard, ⁓ he has so many patents I don't even know how, what to say. ⁓ You have Albert White ⁓ and forgive me because I am, Race for the Net is his book, Race for the Net. He was one of the ones that was instrumental in bringing the internet to us. ⁓ And we all know, well,
maybe not, we all know ⁓ Lonnie Johnson, was the one who ⁓ created the Super Soca. So ⁓ people like that, ⁓ being, yeah, so yes, black inventor. ⁓ So being able to be on panels and things with people like that definitely gave me ⁓ a space to want to, and it's not.

Daniel Douglas (19:19.982)
I didn't know that.

Nicole Murphy (19:35.491)
It's not something that is like a one and done, because I definitely want to build my IP portfolio with patents, trademarks, and copyrights. ⁓ But it takes money. ⁓ But we do. I will, let me plug this. We do have an IP attorney on the platform. And I actually just used her ⁓ to file a new trademark last week. So ⁓ it helps. ⁓

Daniel Douglas (19:47.659)
a lot of time.

Daniel Douglas (20:3.820)
I'm impressed. ⁓ I'm impressed. So to move this right along, and I know you want to talk about your app launch. So that was my next question. Your mobile app launches, as you mentioned before, in February 2026. How will that ⁓ next chapter expand Barda Black's ecosystem? And how are you planning the community for ⁓ that shift from web-based to mobile?

Nicole Murphy (20:33.892)
The community cannot wait. Let me tell you, they cannot wait. what I do on a regular basis, it's been once a quarter, but I think I'm gonna move it to twice a year, is I get feedback from our community. And that's what I use to make the changes to the platform. The app is going to do amazing things. One, it's gonna help them be able to access the platform or
app or ⁓ the product easier. ⁓ They'll get notifications of course, all the things that apps do. ⁓ But one of the things that I'm finding is that when people find out about Barter Black, the first thing they do is go to the app store. And I'm like, I'm not there yet! So just slow down, we're getting there. ⁓ But it's going to open us up to a lot more because when they hear about us they're going to immediately go
⁓ to both app stores and download the app. If I can get them to download the app, they'll subscribe. So that is the goal.

Daniel Douglas (21:41.838)
So I'm assuming that ⁓ you did some research on going mobile instead of desktop.

Nicole Murphy (21:54.031)
So we have the web platform. ⁓ So when we first launched in 2022, we launched the app first. ⁓ So I learned a lot from that. Didn't want to make that mistake, especially with the pivot that we had with the whole business model. I wanted to make sure that the web platform was where it to be ⁓ before we actually launched.
the actual app again. ⁓ yeah, with our developers and ⁓ researching and input, ⁓ yes. ⁓ But I'm super excited to just have that different aspect of barter black where it's easily accessible to... ⁓ It seems weird that it wouldn't be necessarily accessible to everyone on the...
the web, but the app is where it's at. ⁓

Daniel Douglas (22:57.614)
I'm going to go a little left field here for a minute because as you were talking, and this wasn't planned, but it just struck something to me. have one of my sisters, I have a few sisters. One of my sisters is an occupational therapist in Philadelphia.
And when I was talking to her, I told her about you when I met you ⁓ in Baltimore. ⁓ And she had mentioned to me, because I'm helping her develop something now ⁓ that she wants to do. She's a certified licensed occupational therapist. And so she wants to start doing ⁓ online seminars, which she's licensed to do ⁓ with ⁓ elderly.
And specifically, ⁓ I believe women 65 ⁓ plus, if I'm not mistaken. And she mentioned to me, we talked last week about ⁓ she wanted to, and I'm losing my train of thought, ⁓ doing, ⁓ not for donations, ⁓ gosh, it'll come back to me. But ⁓ when I looked at your website, ⁓
Saw something on there and I said well, I've got this interview with this ⁓ dynamic woman ⁓ her name is Nicole Murphy ⁓ and It's about bartering and she said well, I've done some bartering before and I said well ⁓ once the episode Releases you need to actually look at it. ⁓ I'm trying to think of what she would she's trying to do ⁓ She wants to put together a gosh
⁓

Daniel Douglas (24:59.126)
It's a document that you do when you're a grant. Duh. ⁓ And she said, well, I'm not a grant writer. And I said, well, neither am I. said, there's a distinct process to that. And I said, well, I looked on ⁓ Barter Black's website and I saw grants up there. Speak on that for a little bit. And you're speaking directly to my sister about this one.

Nicole Murphy (25:24.260)
⁓ Most of us are not grant writers. ⁓

Daniel Douglas (25:28.205)
Right.

Nicole Murphy (25:30.112)
Yes, so one of the things, yes we are a bartering platform but we are a lot more. It's a community and we know that this community is building businesses. ⁓ So one of the things that we do provide in your membership is a monthly grant list. So I know a lot of people say well I don't know what to look for grants or it's exhausting looking for grants and I don't know what to do. So we do that for you. ⁓ The grant list is there. ⁓ I tell people or I tell our members the first
the month it is updated but we update it weekly but I always tell people ⁓ the first of the month go and see what grants you are eligible for first. List those out with the dates and then you know exactly what you need to apply for. ⁓ Now I think there is one other person I'm not sure but I also provide grant assistance on the platform. ⁓ I have
It's hard out here. So I have ⁓ been awarded $30,000 so far ⁓ for the Barter Block platform. So I think that I am a little ⁓ experienced where I can help people apply for grants. So I do do that ⁓ in several different ways. So that is available on the platform. you ⁓ can...

Daniel Douglas (26:32.427)
No.

Nicole Murphy (26:52.642)
you know, sell your products and services on the platform to get grant assistance. It's just that simple.

Daniel Douglas (27:0.268)
Interesting. ⁓ I'm sure she will, well, I'll talk to her about it. ⁓ So for sure. ⁓ Okay, so getting back on track here for a second. ⁓ What lessons did you learn during development that other founders ⁓ could apply to building tech for ⁓ community impact? And the reason I'm asking that question is you and I talked ⁓ three weeks ago in Baltimore and I said, well, I'm developing an app.
and it's an app for ⁓ photographers, videographers, and content creators. And when I started building it, ⁓ because I do have a background in that, ⁓ I think I was going overboard with it, so I kind of trashed it and stepped back and said, ⁓ let me do a little more research and see, and instead of trying to build the whole thing, and I believe I told you it was like five to seven modules in that app.
And instead of trying to build the entire thing, let me do it step by step with what's the most important module. So getting back to ⁓ lessons learned, that question, ⁓ what would you say to other founders like me, ⁓ or especially young people too, because we need to get them on board?

Nicole Murphy (28:21.048)
Yeah, so several things come to mind. ⁓ One, think ⁓ I told you we launched the app first. ⁓ I felt like that was a mistake because ⁓ even though ⁓ I knew, we all know our ideas are gonna be amazing, right? I didn't build that community first. ⁓ That's why this time around, this community is super important to me to make sure that they are involved in ⁓ everything that I do. ⁓ So community first, I would say of course,
hire the experts. Don't try to do it yourself. ⁓ Just hire the experts because they're going to be able to save you time ⁓ on those mistakes. And then another thing ⁓ that ⁓ you alluded to actually is it doesn't have to be perfect. When we launched this second version of Barter Black, I needed to make sure ⁓ that
they got those trade credits in their wallet. They were able to spend them, you know, be able to create that transaction. ⁓ Very basic, like very basic. ⁓ I mean, to the point where I was getting messages all the time saying this don't, this doesn't work. ⁓ So, ⁓ but, ⁓ but very basic, but they bought in, they believed in it. They bought into it. And that's what I mean by when I say they have

Daniel Douglas (29:36.162)
Okay.

Nicole Murphy (29:47.363)
given me the changes that I needed. And we've done that along the way in this last year. I did, ⁓ the platform was not perfect when it launched at all. ⁓ So ⁓ it doesn't have to be perfect, but it does have to be launched. ⁓ And if you launch it and they love what you actually have so far, they're going to help you build upon it.

Daniel Douglas (30:10.222)
Okay. And in reading your bio, ⁓ and I always like to do my homework before I do these things. You ⁓ said, and that brings us ⁓ another segue talking about ownership and empowerment. ⁓ You've said before that ownership was non-negotiable. ⁓ And what I'd like to know, ⁓ why was that ⁓ so central to
your mission of a ⁓ barter black. does that, what does for us bias look like once you start scaling beyond the early adopters? ⁓

Nicole Murphy (30:51.554)
Yeah, I mean that means so much. So it's interesting because... ⁓
⁓ Wow. So before I even ⁓ launched Barter Black, ⁓ I had ⁓ a... I don't even know what I would call them. I don't know if they... don't know if I would call them a venture capitalist fund. ⁓ Maybe they were, maybe they weren't. I don't remember. But they had reached out to ⁓ basically buy Barter Black. ⁓
Them having 51, I'm having 49%. White ⁓ owned venture capital fund. ⁓ And I had a talk with my family. ⁓ And I mean, they were selling me dreams and everything. Cause back then I would never do anything like a podcast back then. So they were like, we can have a face to ⁓ the brand and we can create all of this. ⁓ And it's like, why did I build this?
or why did I think of this or why did I start this? And I didn't start it to ⁓ sell it to people who did not even know our struggle. ⁓ So that one for start gave me ⁓ a great example of how quickly our dreams can just go away. Even though I was retaining, I was not retaining majority of
⁓ if they were to buy in. So that started my ownership thought. ⁓ And then two, entrepreneurship wasn't talked about growing up in my household. Everyone had a job. ⁓ I grew up in Washington DC. It was always go to school, graduate, get a good government job. That was it. ⁓ And I wanted it to be different for my boys, whether they wanted to be entrepreneurs or not.

Nicole Murphy (32:57.134)
they talk about entrepreneurship all the time, especially the little one. I think that's just ingrained in him. ⁓ He even asked about two weeks ago, I feel like it was after Afros and audios, when you retire, can I take over Barter Black? And I'm like, absolutely, yes. ⁓ But. ⁓

Daniel Douglas (33:11.406)
⁓ I saw in one of the ⁓ photo, ⁓ it was an award ceremony. I think you won an award and they were with you ⁓ and they had these big Cheshire cat grins on their faces. ⁓

Nicole Murphy (33:24.621)
Yeah.

Nicole Murphy (33:31.044)
Yes, that was the actual launch of Barter Black. That was that day. But yeah, even the conversations, like the things that I'm dealing with in the background, I have these conversations with them. Ownership to me, especially when I started thinking about and working with Barter Black, it's an accomplishment. And it's one that we don't talk about too often because if you look at the stats, less than 1 % of our

Daniel Douglas (33:34.030)
⁓ Okay.

Nicole Murphy (34:0.545)
our companies get venture capital funding. ⁓ In the United States, when you look at employer-operated businesses, we have less than 3 % of employer-operated businesses in the United States compared to white-owned businesses that have over 80 % of employer-operated That means their businesses are going to survive, whether they are there or not. We don't have that. ⁓
As I'm building and as I am including every and it's so interesting because I'm like these people are really and I posted this today. I'm like I'm so thankful for everyone who is gifting their time and their expertise to making sure that this app launch goes off amazing because they don't have to they just believe in this mission and this vision ⁓ and we're going to do it together. I want everyone to say yes I was there when she did that.
⁓ Because we're not ⁓ previewed to a lot of Black-owned businesses where we can say we were actually there at the beginning. So I want to create that moment for people to say, yes, I was there at the beginning. This is a Black-owned brand for Black-owned businesses. And we are going to create a space where we can actually grow together.

Daniel Douglas (35:17.602)
Has there ⁓ been any trade-offs between ⁓ growth and control?

Nicole Murphy (35:24.214)
No. ⁓ No. ⁓

Daniel Douglas (35:24.686)
⁓ Since you started. ⁓ I didn't think so, but I had to ask anyway. ⁓ So ⁓ you've answered a lot of the questions that I had.

Nicole Murphy (35:31.522)
Not yet, not yet, no.

Daniel Douglas (35:45.996)
So I guess ⁓ let's move into, I guess would be my final ⁓ segment. I wanna talk about the future of collaboration. ⁓ And the reason I'm bringing that up is, ⁓ as you know, ⁓ in Baltimore, that was my second year attending Afros and Audio. And I think you said it was your first, if I'm not mistaken. And so ⁓ that platform,
really helped me a lot ⁓ and I'm really digging into your answers here ⁓ and it's kind of like giving me twinkles, ⁓ you know, so to speak, ⁓ because I like seeing stuff like this and especially, you know, ⁓ black women who are about doing their thing. So you've coined some a few phrases like collaboration is the currency.
Let's talk about that for a second.

Nicole Murphy (36:49.290)
Yeah, that's one of those those things where you're asking for help. ⁓ Those that's one of the things where you realize I can't do this by myself. Like ⁓ everyone has their space in their place. ⁓ And when you collaborate, of course, you reach more people than you would alone. ⁓ I can't remember the speaker's name, but he was talking about. ⁓
owning your business and saying 100 % of nothing is still nothing. Like why are you holding this to yourself? Like ⁓ get a partner, get someone to help you. ⁓ And if you find a great collaboration where you both, mutually beneficial for you both, why not do that? Why do work the hard way and not, you know, ⁓ be in collaboration with people?
Let's just say, for instance, Afro's in audio. I would not have met you said if it was not for the partnership that we have created. I met so many amazing people that ⁓ I would not have met had I not been in that room or had I not reached out and say, can we collaborate? And him coming back, yep, we can. you have to...
And especially be intentional to so we can't collaborate and it's just one ⁓ off or one person is benefiting ⁓ because that just doesn't make for people to want to collaborate any further. ⁓

Daniel Douglas (38:21.666)
Right, right.

Nicole Murphy (38:23.050)
But you have to be intentional with your collaborations. Make sure that they are beneficial for you both, but you also have to capitalize on those moments as well because you don't want to be in rooms and you don't make any connections. ⁓ Or you don't want to be in any collaborations where there's no benefit. ⁓
So that's where your currency comes in. ⁓ Because once you collaborate, you're in rooms and spaces, people know your name. People were able to meet me personally, whether they heard about Barter Black or not. But now they know about Barter Black. So that's what I want because like you said, you talk to your sister about it. Okay, that creates that trickle effect where ⁓ everyone is talking about Barter Black.

Daniel Douglas (39:8.492)
And I know, ⁓ and I'll make a confession. ⁓ When I was talking with you, I didn't pay attention to what you had on your table. I knew you were a vendor. And as I was ⁓ doing the headshots and all of that, ⁓ I think it was Saturday, I walked over and I said, hey, I never talked to you about what it is that you're doing. And then when you started talking about it, I'm like, hmm.
this is different, you know, this is something. So I really got into it ⁓ and ⁓ I'm happy that I did because I think the concept ⁓ is needed. So I wanna ask another question. So how would Barter Black help ⁓ someone like me in the creative field?

Nicole Murphy (40:6.989)
So.
Barter Black can help any black entrepreneur or business owner no matter what they do. ⁓ It depends on what you need. And I tell people that all the time. It's not about... So we have to look at it both ways. Because it's not just about how it can help you, but also how you can help the community. Because that's how the community grows and that's how we create that ecosystem. ⁓ I would say first list out the things that you need. What are you doing that you really don't want to do? What are you doing that's repetitive?
can probably pass off to someone else or what are you trying to do that you are just not the expert at. ⁓ So those are the things that you need to list and figure out. I can probably hire someone to actually do these particular things. And then also on the same page list how you can help other people.

Daniel Douglas (40:59.928)
So.

Daniel Douglas (41:3.512)
Crowdfunding. We've all heard it, you know, the apps out there. But you came up with crowd bartering. And you have a crowd ⁓ bartering campaign. ⁓ I looked into it, but I didn't see a whole lot of information that I guess would explain that in a little more detail, unless I overlooked it.
So talk about your crowd bartering campaign.

Nicole Murphy (41:38.021)
⁓ Absolutely. ⁓ So of course we've all heard about crowdfunding. ⁓ I have this campaign and I need funding and you are going to give me funding for that. In exchange you get rewards. There's certain type of rewards that you get for contributing financially. ⁓ I realized because ⁓
Black entrepreneurs receive less than 1 % venture capital because we can't just go to our family and say, can you cut a 20,000 or a $100,000 check that I had to get creative? ⁓ And I am building a bartering platform. So let's get super creative. So the crowd bartering campaign is you contribute your skills and your expertise to me in exchange for.
rewards still. It's the same exact thing. Instead of ⁓ contributing financially, you're contributing your skills. ⁓ And I can give you examples now. ⁓ we officially launched it, I think, ⁓ October. ⁓ So I have, ⁓ in that crowd bartering campaign, we have different people doing different things.
because there is a lot of work going into launching this app. ⁓ similar. ⁓ So we have ⁓ one person scheduling all our podcasts, my podcasts. I don't have to worry about that. She's contributing to the crowd bartering campaign, which is taking something off of my plate and she gets rewards. I have someone creating all our campaign graphics. ⁓ I recently talked to someone about
been our public relations person. These are experts that are contributing their skills ⁓ and in exchange they'll get things like ⁓ free membership, ⁓ they'll get extra barter bucks, ⁓ they'll be able to be announced as a sponsor for the app campaign. So that is how the crowd bartering campaign works. ⁓

Daniel Douglas (43:42.798)
Okay, so that ⁓ is going to bring me into something.
⁓ I'm not going to call it controversial, but we all know what AI is doing right now. AI is here. ⁓ And as I mentioned earlier, ⁓ that I'm all in on the AI because I have a tech background. So how do you see AI or automation strengthening the kinds of community driven ⁓ economies ⁓ that's more focused on
⁓ Bart of Black. And the second part of that question is what can younger founders or creators learn from ⁓ your model about redefining value in collaboration? ⁓

Nicole Murphy (44:34.006)
yeah, I say AI, it's echoing again. sorry.
Can you hear me? Okay. ⁓ I see AI as... ⁓
⁓ Definitely enhancing the Barter Block platform, whether it's creating listings or matching people together ⁓ or just automating a lot of things, making it even better. ⁓ As far as this new generation, ⁓ I think they need to tap into their friends. ⁓ Most likely their friends right now because they like the same things. So it's great for partnership. ⁓ It's great for saying, you do this, you do this, you do this, you do this. ⁓
of saying, I'm creating this business and I'm not including anyone. I think they do a lot of things together especially with the streaming and all of these other types of things that ⁓ if they realize that their community, their friends are basically their collaborations, their partners, they can definitely, whether it's a business, whether it's a hobby, whether it's whatever they want to do, ⁓
they can definitely tap into who they have around them now, especially college students. I think that's a perfect place to like, especially start a business because you have so many people in different, I think every friend of mine in college had a different major. So everyone had a different expertise that they can use.

Daniel Douglas (46:6.008)
So ⁓ we've been on for a while and I can actually talk to you for another two hours, but ⁓ I'm sure you have things to do and so do I. So before we ⁓ wrap up, is there anything that we didn't touch on that you'd like to add, something you feel is important to the listeners to understand about collaboration ⁓ or about Barter Black? ⁓

Nicole Murphy (46:31.510)
Yeah, the one thing that I would say ⁓ is if whether you're starting a business, thinking about starting a business or you already have a business, go ahead and write down a list of people who would be great to work with. ⁓ Especially if you are operating as a solopreneur. ⁓
I would tell anybody going into a business to go into it with someone. Do not do it by yourself because it's not for the weak. ⁓ It just makes more work than it really has to do. ⁓ And then for Barter Black, I think Barter Black ⁓ is ⁓ the platform.
that if you have a business already, it's a platform that you needed when you started your business. ⁓ It is a community of black entrepreneurs who are willing to exchange their skills and their expertise ⁓ to help you. ⁓ So I'm excited about that. I'm excited about the launch in February. Definitely stay tuned to all the events that are happening. ⁓ And I cannot wait.

Daniel Douglas (47:36.824)
Well, neither can I. And ⁓ I want to make sure that you and I stay connected. ⁓ And when you launch the app, I want to bring you back onto the show. ⁓ And ⁓ we can talk about just the app at that particular time. So I want to go ahead and wrap this up because conversations like this show how collaboration ⁓ can really reshape our world. So I'm asking the listeners and the viewers if this inspired you.
Visit barterblack.com to learn more about Nicole's community and vision and sign up for the Barter Black app wait list ahead of the 2026 lunch. And if you know another creator or entrepreneur who believes collaboration is the future of business, share this episode with them. That's how together we keep this conversation and collaboration growing. For links to Barter Black and related resources,
Check the show notes if you're listening on audio or the description below if you're watching on YouTube. Thank you for joining me on Shutter and Algorithms, where creativity and technology meet to remind us what it means to be human in a digital world. Thank you, Nicole, for being on the show.

Nicole Murphy (48:52.772)
Thank you for having me. ⁓