When you're balancing the world on your shoulders as a special needs mom, finding time and space for yourself can feel like an impossible puzzle. But Angela O'Brien, mother, professional organizer, and podcast host with a heart as big as her expertise, joins me to piece together the jigsaw of life, proving that every mom can create harmony out of chaos. Our conversation is a heartfelt journey through the evolution of a special needs mom who redefined her identity and blossomed into a source of inspiration and practical wisdom for parents in similar shoes.
Join Angela and me in a dialogue that enriches, uplifts, and equips you with the tools to not just organize your surroundings, but to flourish within them. Embrace the journey of growth and the art of making space for yourself—it's a celebration of possibility, and it starts right here.
Connect with Angela:
Website: https://yourspacereclaimed.net/
IG: https://www.instagram.com/yourspacereclaimed
Connect with Kara, host of The Special Needs Mom Podcast:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thespecialneedsmompodcast/
Website: https://www.kararyska.com/
Coaching Opportunities
Pathway to Peace {Group Coaching Program}: Schedule a Consult or Contact Me
Join The Special Needs Mom Podcast Community FaceBook Group!! Click here to Request to Join
When you're balancing the world on your shoulders as a special needs mom, finding time and space for yourself can feel like an impossible puzzle. But Angela O'Brien, mother, professional organizer, and podcast host with a heart as big as her expertise, joins me to piece together the jigsaw of life, proving that every mom can create harmony out of chaos. Our conversation is a heartfelt journey through the evolution of a special needs mom who redefined her identity and blossomed into a source of inspiration and practical wisdom for parents in similar shoes.
Join Angela and me in a dialogue that enriches, uplifts, and equips you with the tools to not just organize your surroundings, but to flourish within them. Embrace the journey of growth and the art of making space for yourself—it's a celebration of possibility, and it starts right here.
Connect with Angela:
Website: https://yourspacereclaimed.net/
IG: https://www.instagram.com/yourspacereclaimed
Connect with Kara, host of The Special Needs Mom Podcast:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thespecialneedsmompodcast/
Website: https://www.kararyska.com/
Coaching Opportunities
Pathway to Peace {Group Coaching Program}: Schedule a Consult or Contact Me
Join The Special Needs Mom Podcast Community FaceBook Group!! Click here to Request to Join
Hi, I'm Cara, life coach, wife and mom to four incredible and unique children. It wasn't all that long ago that my son received a diagnosis that had my world come crashing down. I lacked the ability to see past the circumstances, which felt impossible, and the dreams I once had for my life and family felt destroyed. This forward has many years of surviving and not at all thriving, and you'll see a mom who trusts that she can handle anything that comes her way and has access to the power and confidence that once felt so lacking. I created this special needs mom podcast to create connection and community with moms who find themselves feeling trapped and with no one who really understands. My intention is to spark the flare of possibility in your own life and rekindle your ability to dream. This isn't a podcast about your special needs child. This is a podcast about you. If you are a mom who feels anxious, alone or stuck, then you are in the right place. Welcome, hello and welcome to the special needs mom podcast. First, let me say, if you missed it last week, happy new year. I recorded this podcast, and actually I recorded it last year, and I was like you know what. This conversation is just so rightly timed with the start of a new year, even though I like to kind of push back against starting new things in the beginning of the year. I just think the energy is so aligned.
Speaker 1:What I wanted to bring to you is this guest, angela O'Brain. She is a mother of two. She's a professional organizer. She's a certified Annie Ramcoach. She's the host of a specially organized podcast. This is a podcast about sensible solutions for special needs moms. If you're with me, I like the idea of some sensible solutions.
Speaker 1:In this episode we're going to talk about organizing. You named it. It's not going to necessarily be a one size fits all approach. That's what I really loved about this conversation is first, we define what does it mean to be organized? And I love her definition. I'm not going to spoil it here, but you guys are going to want it, trust me. Then also, we talk about organizing styles. If you're like me, I hadn't ever stopped to think about like there are a lot of different needs out there. As we know, no matter disabled or not, we all have different ways of organizing or feeling organized. She describes different lenses to look through in looking at organizing styles.
Speaker 1:Of course, I always like to get the becoming we talk a little bit about her personal journey and how she got from being a special needs mom that really only had the singular identity of being a special needs mom. We talk about the struggle and success of finding her. What's next? I think a lot of you are going to really appreciate that she happens to have identified herself in the latter half of her life. Her daughter is in her teen years and her son is graduated off to college. You may not be quite there, but it doesn't mean that you have to wait to appreciate this conversation. There's a lot of useful stuff here. You might want to take a few notes here and there, but we'll make sure that all of her contact information is easy to find in the show notes. If you do want to connect with her on Instagram or in any other capacity that you know, she's there for you. All right, let's get into the episode. Angela, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2:Thank you. It's so nice to be here. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:We have a fun little connection story. One of my longtime conference friends, a friend that I met at a conference we've kept well acquainted and it's been really fun she goes to a podcasting conference and she texts me and she's like, guess what? The person sitting next to me has a special needs mom podcast too, or a special needs based podcast. I think you had heard of my podcast. It was just fun little connection. She's like, yeah, reach out to her. We have now this wonderful new connection. I love that. It's really fun to me.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, well, I had listened to your podcast. I was like, oh my gosh, she's awesome. I love her. Well thank you, that makes me so good.
Speaker 1:I think Allison was like, oh my gosh, she was raving about. Well, that sure makes me feel good. Thank you for saying those kind things and for being who you are. I know a little bit about you. I've gotten to talk to you a little bit more at length on your podcast but let's share with everybody a little bit about who you are as a mom, as a woman and, of course, as a professional organizer.
Speaker 2:So yeah, my name is Angela O'Brien. I have a 19-year-old daughter with Down syndrome. She was born in 2003, way before Facebook and social media and all that. She was born in Maryland. We lived in kind of a rural area at the time, so I really felt the fear and the isolation at first because I was very unfamiliar with what it was like to live with Down syndrome. I didn't know anyone really with Down syndrome.
Speaker 2:I didn't grow up around anyone with Down syndrome. I really had a lot of fear and a lot of grief over kind of the expectation of what I thought the daughter that I thought I was going to get.
Speaker 2:And that was really hard. But I also have a son, I should say he was two and a half at the time and he was a whirling dervish. So I felt like, oh my gosh, well, how am I going to get through this? But here we are, 19 years later and, gosh, I can't imagine my life without her. A year after she was born, we had moved to Dallas to be closer to my family and just between the friends that we've met and the things that we've done and the experiences that we've had because of her, it's really been kind of a life I would not have expected, and pleasantly so. A couple of years ago, you know, she was getting older. My son is getting older, I should say.
Speaker 2:Several years ago I was really trying to figure out what I wanted to do in this kind of next half and I felt really kind of lost, like my kids were getting a little bit older. I still am really the caregiver of my daughter, but you know she's definitely getting more independent, which is fabulous. But I had a little bit more time and I was really starting to think more about me and what I wanted to do, and that's when I actually was using the Enneagram to kind of help me figure all that out and it helped me realize some of the things that I could do. I feel like I do have gifts, but they aren't. I'm not really creative, I can't draw or write or see anything like that, but I can organize and I have always been good at that and it's always been kind of a coping mechanism for me. And so it was just kind of dawned on me one day when I was at a friend's house and we were gonna go to the beach and I'm like I really wanna organize her pantry, like it looks so great, and so I was like maybe there's something there, maybe that's something that I can do, and it just took off from there.
Speaker 2:Earlier this year I was presenting to a group of moms of kids with special needs, of moms of kids with Down syndrome, actually about organizing, and it just dawned on me how much this community needs a voice when it comes to understanding the organizing challenges that we have as parents and especially as moms, and kind of the struggles that we go through in trying to get organized, the extra equipment that we have, the extra therapy appointments and doctor appointments and the extra paperwork that we have to deal with. And so that's what prompted me to start my podcast and really start to focus on. Most of my clients now are people who have kids with special needs. So, yeah, that's where.
Speaker 1:I am today, yay. Well, I'm always so happy to see our community focused on and served and supported. So you shared a little bit about. This is a natural thing for you and not everybody feels that way. Right, not everybody feels naturally organized. And what's interesting is, as I think about organization, I'm like, why know what it means for me? But I'm like what does that even mean? What does it mean to be organized? Cause I also think a lot of people come to me and like, ah, I just got to get organized. I got to get organized and I feel them right, like there's certain areas of my life and I got to get organized. So I wanted to ask you how do you define being organized?
Speaker 2:That is such a great question, and I'm not even sure that anyone's ever asked me that, so kudos to you for doing that. So I think being organized is different for every person, and what it means to you might mean something different for me, but if I had to put a statement around it, I think being organized, or having some sense of organization, really means that the systems and the routines and the things that you have in place are set up so that they don't produce extra stress for you when you're going through your day and if your spaces are set up so that it helps you accomplish what you want to accomplish, it helps you get through the day, it helps you parent your kids, then you're organized and that can mean different things for different people, the way that looks.
Speaker 2:Organizing is also. It's not a project, it's a process. You kind of have to stay on it. You can't really all just get organized and then stay organized because things are moving in and out of your home. Routines change, school years happen and new events happen, and so that requires change. And so organizing is always gonna be a process for you. And if you know that going forward and then you put the time and like, okay, let's, we have a new school year and we have new events and we have new extracurricular activities, and so how can we organize our day and how can we organize our entryway so that it's set up for that, then that sets you up for the year and so then you're not tripping over your shoes and your equipment and all of that. So I think it just it depends on the person, obviously, but if it can help you get through your day with less stress and less tension, then you're organized.
Speaker 1:I like that and it makes a lot of sense that it would be different for every person, especially when I just I had just listened to your podcast and got this understanding that there's different organizing styles, and it never occurred to. I mean now that I say that I'm like, well duh, but before that it didn't really occur to me. You know, like we're all in our own little world and so I hoped you could tell us, like what are the different organizing styles and then perhaps any clues, so that my listeners can help maybe have a clue for what they might be.
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 2:So I like to think about the organizing styles as just kind of the way that we view things and the way that we think about things. So, in terms of the way that we view things and how visual we are, if we are super visual and we need to see our things, to know that they are there and they exist, then we need to have them out and we need to have them visible to us. But then on the opposite end of that spectrum there are people, and I'm one of these. If it's all out and visible to me, then my mind gets cluttered and I can't think straight, I can't be creative, and so on the visual line you've got people that really need to see everything and that means like they might need to have clear bins or they might need things out in the open, or they might need open shelving, things like that, to be able to see what they have so that they can access it easily. Because it's all about accessing what you need easily and being able to put it back easily. What works for you, how easy is it for you to return the item to its location so that you know where it is the next time you need it? And then, on the other end, if you're like me, I like to have things maybe in maybe not a clear bin, but maybe it's a cover bin or it's behind a cabinet drawer, cabinet door or something, but I know that it's there. I know where I can go to find it, but things are, my space is clearer, and that negative space is really important to me. It really helps calm me. So you have that visual spectrum. And then on the other end, you have how we think about things, and so that might mean maybe we are a macro thinker, maybe we think in larger categories. So if it's writing utensils, we might put all of those writing utensils in a bin on our desk or in a drawer, whether it's crayons or markers or pens or pencils or whatever it is.
Speaker 2:There are other people that like to be more detailed. They're just really more detail oriented, and so they need things broken down, and so you might wanna have all those separated out, and it just depends on how your brain thinks. So, for instance, for me, I like a lot of negative space. I don't like to see everything, but when I open the drawer, you will find that all my socks are in one bin, no matter what the color, where the rest of my family all have those drawer dividers that have the individual sock for each individual sock I didn't even know that existed, wow. And because they like to have them separated out, where I just throw it in a bin and as long as it's in the drawer and I know it's there, I'm fine with it. So I'm more macro oriented but not visual.
Speaker 2:But there are some that might be micro oriented but very visual. So they need it out, but they need it defined in specific categories so that kind of explains the different organizing styles, and so it's just a way of how you think about things and what works best for you. And that may not be the Instagram worthy stuff is all the cute bins and it's all labeled and it's either put away, so the counters are clean, but that may not work for you. You may need to have your appliances out on your counter and that's okay so that you'll use them, because that's the whole point of it. If it's gonna be put away in a drawer and you never use it, what's the point of having it so?
Speaker 1:hopefully that explains. It definitely does, and it's interesting as I'm listening to you, I'm thinking about different people in my life where I can be like, oh yeah, definitely they are more of a need to see it kind of person and I'm and I live with this person and so lived in my past life and I am more of a I have to have it away, and so you can see how that would be very unsettling for someone like myself who's very visually impacted by what I see around me.
Speaker 1:And even now I think I live with three sons and a little girl and a husband, so definitely my need to have that visual clutter is not necessarily the same needs as all the other people I live with. So I'm sure you come across that all the time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's where you get into the kind of you could have some battles in your own household because you could have different organizing styles and I think part of that. I know that it's been said that kids tend to be a lot more visual than non-visual, so they like to see their things and I think, especially like kids like my daughter who has Down syndrome she really likes to be able to see kind of where her things are and what they hear Like. She's very visual with her calendar, she we have a calendar in her room and she wants to see that, you know, every day. So sometimes we do have to kind of work with, especially if we have kids with special needs or they're neurodivergent, we really need to be cognizant of what their organizing style is and what works for them and we might have to kind of, you know, at least in those general spaces where they are working. We have to cater to them and we have to do what works for them to kind of accomplish what we want to accomplish as moms, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can see that even as you're talking I'm like, ooh, maybe I've been a little hard on my 16 year old who, like always wants to have his binder or his Boy Scout stuff out or his hats on the counter. And I'm just like, babe, I just need you to put it away. You have an entire room and you can put anything you want there, but you just can't put it on my counter and turns out it's not working. It's not working. My requests are not being met with compliance. And I walked by the banister the other day and he had two hats on there and I finally said to myself, okay, you need to accept that, you need to make a way for it to work for him, because you're gonna make yourself go crazy If I just keep trying to get him to comply with just maybe what's not even reasonable. Like is it really reasonable for my 16 year old to actually go upstairs every time he needs to put his hat away? Probably not. But until I had that little moment of realization, I thought, well, he's got strong legs, he can do it.
Speaker 1:But I think again, as I'm thinking about you saying, like, making these spaces that work for our children, that may not be our preferred way. I also, because of course I'm a coach, I'm always thinking in like a both end context how can we both meet the need of our child and meet our own needs? And it makes me think, okay, have a specific spaces that really work for our children and have spaces that work for us. I think of, okay, my bedroom, my bedroom, can be that place where it isn't cluttered, it doesn't have all the things out, because my son, levi, who's my disabled child, he's more of a I need to see things everywhere and actually even his ability to find things is not great or to put them away not great, and so I think I could probably set up an environment that is just easier for him to manage, versus expecting him to manage it like a grown adult.
Speaker 1:So, anyhow, thank you for just giving some examples for what that looks like, and I'm definitely the one who again needs all the things put away and I'm like, oh, I think I'm the micro detail, because I'm like, oh, in my like junk drawer, I'm like I have all the pens in one drawer and all the like markers in one drawer, and then I have the pens and pencils and then I have all like the protractors and scissors and all the things and like another little compartment and it works lovely for me. And you know what's funny? My kids don't put them back in the right spot, of course they don't, because they don't care.
Speaker 1:But anyhow it's just it's kind of funny kind of seeing these things that you're describing Okay so.
Speaker 2:But let me say one thing too, though I think that there are ways that we could figure out. If you have a different organizing style from your child, there are things that we can do to make it work for both. And so, like for you, it might be that you have a bin on your counter and he just throws it into the bin, so all you see is the bin you don't see all the stuff and it looks a little bit neater and so it's a little bit calming to your brain and to your mind. That's where it's very personal. It depends on the space, it depends on the people, it depends on how you use it. But you could get creative and think about okay, how can we make this work, given what happens naturally with our kids? They're not gonna go back upstairs and put their stuff away, so how can we make this space work for them? But yet I don't have a conniption every time I walk by it.
Speaker 1:Exactly. Well, I think that was like this little light bulb that went off for me when I walked by these hats, because I'm like, of course, like he just needs a place to put his hats that work for him, and he doesn't. He puts them on the counter because there's like nowhere else to put him right, like if I I don't know if I'm gonna get a hat rack, necessarily, but if I make a bin, like you're saying, close enough to where he comes and lands, I think we can do it. So I'm sure there's so many other approaches that you would have and actually what I would love to hear is okay, so now you define being organized.
Speaker 1:Basically, it's having systems and routines that don't produce extra stress. I think a lot of us are like well, I'm really stressed, right, so tell me where to start here. And so I would love to kind of like as you approach organization, of course, identifying your styles, probably pretty foundational, but after you do that, what's like the maybe like entry level? Okay, let's start with a system or routine, or start with something that can kind of lead you down the road to having the organized experience.
Speaker 2:Yeah, where would you start? And I probably should have said this earlier. But I do want to mention that organizing is a skill, like it can be learned, like just because I tend to be more organized, you know, like that's my tendency and I have that skill doesn't mean other people can't learn it. I know plenty of professional organizers that were complete slobs as teenagers like self professed slobs, you know and now and then they turn the corner and they realize, oh, I can learn how to do this and oh, my life is so much better, you know, by doing that. So I just want to say, if you're listening to this and you're not feeling like you have that skill, it can be learned, for sure.
Speaker 2:And I think some of the things that I recommend to my clients and on my podcast really is simple stuff, honestly. And one of the things that I say first off is how can we let go of some of that clutter that we have? And there's lots of different kinds of clutter. There's physical clutter, there's digital clutter, there's calendar clutter, but in here I'm talking about physical clutter just for the sake of this argument. But her physical clutter that we have and my clutter I mean just things that are not serving you, that you're not using, that are not functional, that don't really in Marie Kondo's you know world, don't spark joy in any way or don't lead to you to do something that sparks joy. Those, I think we have to work through our mindset of being able to let go, and if we can declutter and we can move some of those things out of our way, the lighter that we are going to feel honestly, because the more things that we have, the more we have to store, the more we have to pay for, the more we have to think about, the more we have to manage, the more we have to clean. It takes up more space and so that already adds to the mental load that we as special needs parents have, and it's a lot already. So I have learned over the years and I realize when they're babies, when they're younger, we have a lot of equipment that we have. It's a lot, I get it.
Speaker 2:But maybe there are some other areas where we can say you know what, I don't need this right now, so it's okay to let this go and so just the less stuff that we have, you know, especially I mean I can say that now I have older kids. But I've gone through that accumulation phase and now I've realized I'm a lot calmer when I have less stuff to worry about and take care of and think about and maintain, and so we could get to that point. I think we could have just a little bit of a healthier mental, lighter you know load honestly. So that would be the first thing just when you go around your house, if you can, if it's really hard for you and you want something specific, take a trash bag and go, pick out five things in your home that you no longer want, and it's okay to let those go. It's okay to put them in the trash if that's what you need to do to let them go.
Speaker 2:I know we need to be environmentally conscious Absolutely but sometimes our mental health is more important and that means that we need to. We don't have the time to take it to a recycling center, so it's okay to let it go if that's what we need for our mental health. And so just doing something really simple like that, picking out five things, and maybe you do it today once and then maybe you do it tomorrow and then maybe you know, if you think of it again, try it the next day, like just trying to kind of get into that habit or that frequency, that consistency, consistency of doing things like that, thinking about do I really need this? And then being able to let it go.
Speaker 1:That's really helpful. I'm laughing because you know you mentioned kind of being environmentally responsible and I was just tackling to myself because for those of us that have had a lot of hospitalizations, what you notice is trash bins filling up very quickly because, like, basically everything's disposable and non-reusable.
Speaker 1:It's just like jaw dropping on how much we generate and some kind of like well, we're just going to give up on that. I don't know how we're going to, but anyhow it's just funny. And then I'm like resistant to throw away, like I don't even know what it would be, but like something small and kind of insignificant in the spectrum of things. So with decluttering, I think that's a really great place to start. If that's like the only thing we did, I'm sure all of us would experience that lightness that you're talking about. Are there any rule of thumbs that you suggest to people as they're starting? So obviously, like you mentioned a couple of things, like things that don't you know you don't use anymore, or you mentioned a few things, but I wanted to see if you have kind of a guideline or a rule of thumb that helps people make those decisions on when it's a good time to get rid of something.
Speaker 2:Sure, yeah. So one of the things we talk about in the organizing world is the 2020 rule, and that means that if you have something that you are hanging on to kind of is a what if? Like, I might need that in the future. I haven't used it in five years, but I might need that later on, or my kids might need that later on. And when I say the 2020 rule, what I mean is can it be replaced in 20 minutes for $20 or less, and maybe we need to move it to 25.
Speaker 1:I think we need to move it to 40. This is the exact. I use the $40 limit.
Speaker 2:There you go.
Speaker 1:Because we knew we were having more kids. I'm like I have there's a lot of things right For all these babies, and so I was like, if I can get a new one for 40 bucks, like in five years when I have my next kid, I'm going to go for that option because, oh my gosh, but anyhow, okay, so 2020. 20 minutes, but yeah, whatever your $25 or $40. Exactly. Whatever your your dollar rate is yes.
Speaker 2:Whatever your comfort level is and your dollar level. And for me I live in Dallas. I can throw a rock and hit a Walmart, a Target, a container store you know so many stores so I have easy access. I can have Amazon deliver it in, like you know, 3.4 minutes it's ridiculous here so I have very easy access. So I have decided I'm not going to be the storage place. I don't go to Costco a lot, I don't stock up on things because it's not worth the stress level and I don't have the space.
Speaker 2:I've downsized multiple times in the last few years and I really like having less things, and so for me to go and get the big, huge Costco laundry detergent doesn't make a lot of sense for me, because it fills up the space that I have for my laundry equipment and my supplies and then I don't have any space for the other stuff, you know. So, being mindful about that, when you go to the store, honestly like, where am I going to put this? What am I going to do with it? So, with the 2020 rule, if you have something that you're like I'm not sure if I'm going to need it or not it's okay to let that go, you know, because, again, our mental health is worth it. Our desire to maybe have a place for our child to land and play or do whatever, and have more space is worth it. Our desire to walk into an area and not have it be so filled with stuff it's, it's worth it, you know. So that would be one thing that I definitely would recommend as far as kind of a rule of thumb, you know, in terms of you know what to let go of and what to hang on to. And then, finally, too, I think that, like I mentioned, when you're at the store for sure, like think about where you are going to put whatever it is that you're buying, and then also, too, thinking about your emotional state, being able to kind of work through some of that Like if and that can be hard and sometimes you do need, like, an accountability partner or someone who's not maybe emotionally attached to whatever it is that you are thinking about.
Speaker 2:You know that you want to hold on to, maybe talking to them about. Okay, why is it that I want to hang on to this? Is there a memory that I am attaching to this item, and is that worth hanging on to? Is that worth? You know what if I were to let this go? What would happen if I let this go? Would I really miss it? Would I appreciate the space that I now have? You know, answering some of those questions might help you figure that out. It can be hard for some. I realize that it can be hard for some to when it comes to the emotional attachments that they put on to their things.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, this is an area where I can't remember exactly who I was mentioning, too, about my excitement about having you on, and what came up is they're noticing resistance to get rid of things, or how things represented certain milestones that were met or not met, and there was a holding on to some things for reasons that are very related to their children's disability and probably grieving what is not there and maybe will never be. So what's lovely is that you, I think, would uniquely understand that as an organizer, and so I think it's important to not look over that, and I'm sure you're suggesting that that is really important.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean we talk about kind of the clutter pitfalls and one of them is just guilt, guilt or fear, you know, and guilt can for us a special needs parents, I think, in like, for, for instance, in one person I spoke with one of the very first times I was talking with people with special needs kids about kind of their organizing styles and things like that, and they were saying, you know, their kid, their particular child, was not reading and they were nine years old but they wanted to hang on to these blocks that they thought could help them potentially read, but the child was never going to play with that. They had no interest in these blocks anymore, they were beyond that. But the parent had the guilt of letting it go because it could possibly help. And I think again, we have to ask her.
Speaker 2:So we have to kind of look at it in a different perspective, in a different light, say, well, if I let this go, what would happen? Could my child do something different? They're already not going to play with it? Probably it sounds like, if they're not already not interested in it, could that be replaced with something that they would play with that might actually help their reading? Could we donate it to someone who has a child in that age development that they could possibly benefit from and use, and so could we get some joy from that Right? Could that be beneficial to us in that way? So just thinking about it in terms of kind of asking some different questions, you know like what would happen if I let this go Like?
Speaker 2:what does that mean?
Speaker 1:You know, it's another reminder for me of the power of acceptance, right? So for that person they accepted, and that moment that their child wasn't reading, therefore they did not need this block, this block toy set, and that allowed them to I'm hoping it did to look at the other options, like donating it or getting a different toy or just having some open space, and I think it always feels so light compared to how heavy it feels when we're resisting acceptance. And so acceptance is a thing. If I could gift all of us one thing, well, I don't know, I'd have to think a lot about that, but right now, in this moment, it would be acceptance.
Speaker 2:Yes, you're so right on the lightness that that creates in our hearts and in our minds, like in our bodies too, I think. Like our physical bodies, like just that lightness that we create, versus the when you're holding on. We're like tense and tight and no resisting, you know, and what that does to our bodies also like that, that creates more stress. We don't need more stress.
Speaker 1:I want to highlight also what you suggested about bringing somebody in that doesn't have an emotional connection to what you have, and I want to use myself as an example here, because I have a friend and she actually does work in organizing now professionally.
Speaker 1:She didn't for many years, but she just happens to be somebody that's really good at getting ready stuff. She has not a lot of need to keep a lot of things and I'm kind of on the other spectrum, without working pretty intentionally at not being that way and so she's so helpful because she can come in. She knows me also right, like really well, trust her, and so she can help me let go of some of those things by just talking me through those questions that you're suggesting, like why do you need this, you know, and what might be the value of letting it go, and. And so she's actually not on the calendar yet, but we're in text conversations about her coming to help me deal with the game shelf and the bookshelf, because, if I'm honest, my kids probably play with a very small portion of the games that we have put in the back of my mind. Well, maybe they want to play Cranium one day.
Speaker 2:Right. Yes, we have all these hopes and dreams.
Speaker 1:They've never played that game, which is hilarious that I still have it down there, and I'm sure a lot of people listening are like, yep, we have that too, or have whatever version of the hopeful thing is. So decluttering is like one on one. What is your next step Like after we declutter? What's your next step of kind of looking at how we might lean towards those systems and routines to de-stress?
Speaker 2:Sure. So I think the next step is actually kind of taking stock of your space. Or it might be a time of the day that causes stress to you and you might have to think about that for a minute, because it might be that it's causing just enough low level stress that you're not even realizing that you're dealing with it. So in the example of the entryway, you don't realize that it's causing you stress every time you walk in because you're walking over shoes, because they aren't put away for whatever reason, and they're impeding you from just having a clear walkway to get to the kitchen so you can set down your groceries, because you don't want to trip over those shoes or whatever those kinds of things. So taking a look at where in your house or where in your day you are feeling some stress and then kind of honing in on that space or that time and saying, ok, how can we make this a little bit better? How is it being used? Who's using it? What members of the family are using it? What do they need? What do they need it out? Do they need to be able to see it, you know, are they accessing it every day? Is it something that they need every day. So it really needs to be accessible. How easy can we make it so that they can put it away easily? If we have littles and we have hooks that are high up, we're not going to get them to put their backpack up away. We need those hooks to be down low.
Speaker 2:So, thinking about how they can use the space, how we can use the space, and just then it gets into the details, like coming up with solutions on how to you know how to put the shoes. Is it a big bin? You just throw the shoes in, but at least you know they're all in one bin. You have to go searching for it, but at least they're off the floor and you're not going to trip on them when you walk through. Or do you have a shoe rack where you you know as long as everybody will set their shoes in there? So just you have to kind of think through your family, and that's why it's so personal. It's really personal, based on the members of the family, based on how they use it, based on how their brain works and the space that you have and the you know the events of your day.
Speaker 1:I think, yeah, what's really clear to me and I'm actually taking notes I'm like, oh, I got to get a shoe rack, but because half of my children would use that and half would most definitely not, and you know, as you're saying, this personalization. I'm like, yeah, you know, like, as you're saying, taking stock not only of space but of your needs. I'm like, yeah, if I'm honest with myself, Levi will never I won't say never, but it's very unlikely that he's going to do certain things, because I know how he operates and I know where he has a lot of resistance, At least where we're at now, in the next year or so. And then other kids don't have that. And so for me, if I'm honest with myself, okay, Kara, he's not going to bring his backpack, he doesn't even bring it in from the van.
Speaker 1:I am doing that job and we're working on it, and yet what I need to do is how do I make that easier for myself so that I have an easy place to put it when I'm coming in from the van? And my other kids have different ways of dealing with their backpacks? And actually it's funny you mentioned entryway, because we've just done a little bit of a reset and remodel on our house, and so the entryway is visioned in my head but not yet in existence, so like there's nowhere to put anything. And so I have one kid that will come and plop his backpack on the same seat every time like super regular. The other kid wants it on the counter, and it's like three places in the counter Levi's is in the van and then my daughter's is thrown somewhere.
Speaker 1:It's so funny to see like all their different personalities coming out and I keep looking at all these backpacks being like I need to give them a place for their backpacks. So anyhow, it's just funny, so super interesting. Thank you so much for sharing all that. I want to take a little bit of a shift and go a little bit away from organizing and a little bit towards looking at you as a mom, a human and woman and you shared your stay at home mom for 15 years and like have morphed and evolved to who you are now and I think, like most parents, moms especially it's really hard to put our own needs first and not have it the other way around. So share with me a little bit about your journey and kind of what shifted for you to have you experience kind of this reemergence of you in your life now.
Speaker 2:How much time do you have? I don't mind making long episodes. Yeah, I will say a lot of this began in about 2015, 16. So my daughter needed to move schools and my son was applying to go to a private high school here in Dallas and they were both kind of downtown-ish. You know, getting closer to downtown, we were living more in the suburbs and so we moved, we left our community. We moved 10 miles south, which might as well been in Fort Worth, because it's hard to, you know, get together with people and traffic and everything, and so, while I still have some people from that community, I don't see those people a lot anymore. And both my kids started at new schools.
Speaker 2:My husband had his job and I was feeling a little lost and at the same time I was watching them kind of get a little bit older and thinking, huh, what's, what am I doing? You know, I just was feeling like something was missing, that I was destined to do something more than just be my kid's parent, my kid's advocate, and I had been volunteering a lot in the Down syndrome community and all that and I love that. But I just wanted something beyond that and but I didn't know what it was. I really struggled, and part of that is because I am a big believer in the Enneagram. I really have found it to be very helpful and impactful in my life. It's a great tool. It's not for everybody, but it is a fabulous tool and it was really helpful for me. And part of the reason it was helpful for me was because, as I'm a peacemaker I'm a nine we have a lot of trouble figuring out our wants and our needs, and so for the longest time I was putting my family's needs first and I was happy to do that, you know, maybe because I just didn't know what I really wanted. And so and I knew I had these challenges ahead with taking care of my daughter and helping my son get in, helping my son get into school and things like that, and so I kind of stepped myself aside and did that and not didn't really think about what I really wanted. And so now the second half of my life is happening and I'm like wait a second, you know. So I really had to start thinking about what do I want and what do I need in my life, and the Enneagram was a helpful framework for me to be able to do that and a helpful way for me to realize, recognize that I needed to do that, and so that's what kind of started me on the path of just trying to figure out what that was. And it took several years for me to do that.
Speaker 2:Honestly, it really was kind of just playing around with well, what kind of gifts do I offer and what do I like to do? And I am very fortunate. My husband is awesome. He's a really great mentor and listener and he was just very supportive in that. You know, I've been supporting him with his businesses and the things that he's done. He's like I'm here to support you. So you know, you try something and then see if it works. You know, and I will be here to support you. So I've been very fortunate to have him at my side.
Speaker 2:And, like I said, it was one of those days where I was just like wait a second, I really like organizing. I like spending my time organizing. Maybe this is something that I want to do for others and that's how it started. But it really took me thinking about what are my strengths, what are my gifts, what are my challenges, and just having that self-awareness to kind of look at myself from all different sides and see how can I grow, how can I become a better person, and in that, what are the things that I like to do? And then just I started doing them.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, and it's funny because, like, it's so easy to just figure out what you want and start doing more of it. But actually I love that you mentioned especially for your personality type. That is hard for you to answer that question.
Speaker 1:And I think it's hard for a lot of people to answer the question of what do I want? Sometimes I talk a lot about what do we need, and sometimes that's really hard, especially when we have been put up against situations where we feel life threatening that take us actually not giving ourselves what we need to survive or to have our children survive, and so when we try to then engage, it's hard to then figure out. Okay, we've been numbing this part for so long, like sometimes we're like it might not even be there. It's there, ladies, we want it's there. But I also appreciate that you shared.
Speaker 1:Hey, it took a little bit, took a couple year process for you to ask the questions and wonder and investigate. It sounds like a beautiful process, but I'm sure it wasn't easy. So it's fun to see you here on the other side and thank you for sharing a little bit of what it took to get here. All right, well, this feels like a good place to wrap up and so, as we do, is there anything that's on your mind or that you just want to share as we close out this conversation?
Speaker 2:Well, I definitely hope that, especially as if you're a chronologically advanced, like I am, and getting a little bit older and getting into that second half of life where your child is becoming an adult, and I would encourage you if you haven't already kind of figured that part out, like what I've been trying to do before now, work on it yourself. I mean, you deserve it, you deserve to have those wants and needs, and I wish someone had told me that a long time ago. I had to kind of start feeling, feeling it here before I realized something was amiss. And then again, because it can take some time, it really can. It took me a lot of time and my husband will say a lot of tears that he heard that I just was struggling. It was hard for me and I felt like gosh, I want my presence to matter, I want to do something more. It's just really trying to figure out what that is. Take time, even when your kids are young, if you don't know what you want yet.
Speaker 2:just start journaling, start thinking about it and be ready, because your time will come. You will get out of those seasons where it's not so focused on your child and hopefully you will come out of a season. You will have some seasons where it's a little bit calmer and you can think a little bit more about yourself, and I hope that you can take that time, because we all need that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the term identity expansion just came to my mind as you were talking and I feel like, as I see and come alongside moms, I definitely see this experience with them thinking some, feeling the lack, the missing, because their identity is so singular as mother of this child. So a lot of the work we do is actually expand on that identity, that sense of identity, of answering the question of who are you? And so I think the question is like what do you want, what do I need? Those kind of go hand in hand. I love your encouragement and I think and I would add, yes if you're at the second half of life, but I think anytime- is a good time to expand that identity.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you would agree, and it just so happens you were busy enough to get to halfway through without noticing.
Speaker 2:No, I love that term though identity expansion that. I've never heard that. And then, exactly, I was like I do too.
Speaker 1:I was like oh, that's the word that came to my mind, so thanks for loving it with me. Thank you so much for this conversation, and I know I personally am very enriched by it and have a lot more like ways that I'm like, oh, maybe she'll help me with this and maybe she'll help me with that. I'm sure you get a lot of that, because it's just so valuable what you do and how you come alongside families and women, and so thank you for spending your time with us and we will look forward to future conversations.
Speaker 2:Awesome. Thank you so much for having me. This is great, thank you.
Speaker 1:Welcome.