Letting Nature Nurture You with Donna Letier

I am honored to share today's episode with Donna Letier, co-founder and CEO of Gardenuity. Donna is a business woman, mother of two, advocate and caregiver for one of her daughter's and a genuinely kind human. She lives and breathes helping others through the power of nature and aims to make gardening accessible for everyone. 

We talk in this episode about work/life/caregiving balance, how we show our other children they are not forgotten, and of course about all of the beautiful important and necessary need to care for ourselves and how gardening can help us do just that. Donna also shares her top three tips for being the CEO of your home and/or business. 

Thank you, Donna, for sharing your wisdom, and to all the listeners, may you find the seeds of hope as you grow something good in your life.


Connect with Donna:

Website: www.gardenuity.com
B2B Website: www.gardenuityforbusiness.com
LinkedIn: /Gardenuity
Instagram: @gardenuity
Facebook: /Gardenuity
TikTok: @gardenuity

Connect with Kara, host of The Special Needs Mom Podcast:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thespecialneedsmompodcast/
Website: https://www.kararyska.com/

Coaching Opportunities
Pathway to Peace {Group Coaching Program}: Schedule a Consult or Contact Me

Join The Special Needs Mom Podcast Community FaceBook Group!! Click here to Request to Join

Transcript

Kara: 1:54

Hi, I'm Kara, life coach, wife and mom to four incredible and unique children. It wasn't all that long ago that my son received a diagnosis that had my world come crashing down. I lacked the ability to see past the circumstances, which felt impossible, and the dreams I once had for my life and family felt destroyed. Fast forward past many years of surviving and not at all thriving, and you'll see a mom who trusts that she can handle anything that comes her way and has access to the power and confidence that once felt so lacking. I created this special needs mom podcast to create connection and community with moms who find themselves feeling trapped and with no one who really understands. My intention is to spark the flare of possibility in your own life and rekindle your ability to dream. This isn't a podcast about your special needs child. This is a podcast about you. If you are a mom who feels anxious, alone or stuck, then you are in the right place. Welcome, hello and welcome to the special needs mom podcast.

Kara: 3:07

Today, I am very happy to bring to you a conversation an interview, if you will between myself and Donna Letier. Donna is the co-founder and CEO of a company called Gardenuity. Donna's focused on the mission, the experience and the product. As you'll hear in the episode, her heart behind this and the science behind it is quite amazing. She lives and breathes growing something good.

Kara: 3:32

Donna found herself as a young single mom to two young girls and worked full time to support her family. Her previous work experience was mostly in the retail space, but she brought all of who she is to create this company called Gardenuity. It's much more than just a simple garden company. She's going to share a little bit more about it. Her daughter, who you're going to get to hear a little bit more about, is also a four time gold medalist with the Special Olympics. One of the things that you'll love about Donna and her personality is that she believes that faith and four letter words are not mutually exclusive.

Kara: 4:12

In this conversation, Donna and I focus on leadership. Anytime I'm getting ready to interview somebody on the podcast, I have my research system that I do. Sometimes it looks a little bit like stalking somebody on the internet, but what I really do is I listen to my gut, I ask and meditate what is the conversation that we want to bring with this person and who they are in their history and their story to the podcast. I'm really happy with where this conversation went, with who Donna is, and that she points us towards this beautiful concept of letting nature nurture u s. Without further ado. Welcome to the podcast, donna. Thank you.

Donna: 4:55

I'm really excited to be here and honored that I get to share the story with you.

Kara: 5:00

Well, I think it's important for everyone to know that when you first came across my conscious, I was like, oh yes, gardens, Special Needs Mom, we're going to do this together. So I'm excited for this conversation today. Let's get started by giving the listeners a little frame of reference. So I like to ask the question tell us a little bit about your becoming as a Special Needs Mom.

Donna: 5:23

I did not grow up in the Special Needs community at all. I moved around Alaska, Singapore, London, Scotland, California, moved around a lot as a child, all the way through high school and then in college, and so I really wasn't around families with Special Needs. And so my girls are 17 months apart, and when I realized that Jillian was going to have Special Needs throughout her life, it was a new realization to me and I had to approach it the only way I knew how; finding out and really surrounding myself with data. You know I ended up being a single mother with two girls 17 months apart, and there's a lot thrown at you. So I had to work outside the home and actually care for me. Working outside the home was a break, you know. I could kind of go down a whole of the what is and oh no, and that was a little daunting.

Donna: 6:30

It took us years and years to figure out what her diagnosis was. I can honestly say when I was pregnant I kind of thought something was wrong. But we did an amniote, everything came back fine, but she just didn't thrive, and so me being aggressive, with doctors saying something's wrong, something's wrong, ended up at about six months in the hospital for quite a few months because she was so malnourished. And that was just me being persistent and the doctor saying ya, you're just stressed, she's just different from your other daughter. A nd finally a team of doctors said you know, it's not good, her life expectancy is about five. And at the time thought, well, that's not an option. I can honestly say not with it. You know, maybe this is more than you want to know, but I remember coming home from a terrible doctor visit and just sobbing in full disclosure and saying God, I am not the gal for you. This is too much.

Donna: 7:34

You know my sister would be better to raise Madison and take me and Jillian, because I have great faith that we can be welcomed, hopefully, into your kingdom. But this is not for me and I remember people think I'm nuts.

Kara: 7:53

They will not because a lot of their. I think more people will say, oh my gosh, I'm not the only one, so I don't mean to interrupt you, but please continue sharing

Donna: 8:03

But I literally remember being lifted up and surrounded by what I envisioned were angels, and be physically lifted up and from that moment on I've been okay. I'm not saying I don't have bad days, I'm not saying that every once in a while I need to go have, you know, some chocolate and a diet coke and a closet to get through the moment. But I knew I had a partner and it's kind of been okay ever since. I also recognized that. Okay, god, you put me here to be her voice and so I might get mad at you and think that you picked the wrong girl, but we're going to do this together. So get ready.

Donna: 8:47

And it's been a journey in here. Literally have been good days, bad days. We finally got a diagnosis because one of her neurologists was so persistent and he said you know, her life expectancy is not great. There's only, you know, a small number of cases with what she's got. But you know, keep doing what you're doing. and we have. So she's outlived what everybody thought she would do and I think that she is resilient and perseveres and we celebrate, you know every day.

Kara: 9:22

Wow. Thank you so much for sharing the whole picture and pulling back the curtain a little bit. I'll share, just really quickly, that I've had the experience of being lifted up in the same way that you've described. It was the same but actually a little bit different, and I remember during the first surgery that we had. So this is back now 12 years ago and it was a pretty big surgery and, like you I like was completely. I was in a new land, a foreign land. I didn't speak the language and I'd never, you know, been there before and I didn't know anybody that had gone. I remember feeling like I was literally physically propped up and for me, I knew a lot of people were praying for us and it was really like I was being held by that and I was a very I mean, it's hard to like exactly put words to the experience, but that was the real experience that I was having.

Donna: 10:08

You sure you know what I can honestly say. That I think, then, God, throughout Jillian's life, has sent his soldiers and girlfriends, they helped me. I would not be here today if I didn't have the power of so many women who just were my tribe. I mean when she would spend months on in a hospital, my mother, she could take care of Madison. But there were times in the hospital that I didn't understand what was going on. The financial implications were overwhelming and I couldn't do anymore. And that's when my girlfriends they were calling the doctors, they were barking orders at the nurses. I had nothing left and you know a couple of them were. I mean, they were my voice where I got to be Jillian's voice, but they were fierce, a lot more fierce than I could be, because I was so scared.

Kara: 11:02

I love it. Everyone needs a fierce friend, right? Yes, indeed, I can think of some friends I have that are just so loyal, you know, in just really moving to think about it, and even as you shared the impact that these friends had on you, it really gave me the chills Because I mean, this is such a powerful, powerful thing, right, really powerful, so we can be so thankful for that. And how old is Jillian now?

Donna: 11:27

She just turned 27, on January 31st. She's about 85 pounds on a good day. She's really non-ambulatory, so she's in a wheelchair but she knows some sign and she probably knows about 300 words. But if you're around her for 30 minutes or more, you understand what she's saying. She does some sign. If she's annoyed with you, you know it. She actually understands about 90% of what's going on. She can't get it back out. She's missing a good part of her brain and of late her brain is, I think, in one of these magical rewiring phases where she's learning new things and new words and so where ever appreciative. as she was in school when a teacher would say well, you know she can't communicate at all, I would be like yet you're wrong. You're not trying, because she communicates perfectly, better than some adults I know. you just have to listen. So I'm telling you, learn to listen. And I was fierce, but it took me a long time to get that way.

Kara: 12:38

Yeah, I think something I say a lot is the answer to any how question is practice, and I think that I can even look at my own journey with those fierce type conversations of pushing back and kind of being the contrarian, and that takes practice. Like a lot of us would rather be in a situation where we're just kumbaya and nobody has to be against anything, but that's not the life we have been given.

Donna: 13:02

And I will tell you garden duty that we can get into a little bit later. I have a co-founder named Julie Eggers and I think your listeners will relate to this when you have a child with special needs, you don't have the hallmark ooh aah so cute moments that, as mothers, you love. And I was at church one day and I met Julie once and she came up and she said, oh, can I hold Jillian before service? and she clearly looked special needs and was teeny tiny. I mean six pounds at six months. and it was the first time somebody had said, oh, can I hold her? And so I said, sure. So right before service start was about to start, I went back to get her and she get no, no, let me hold her throughout the service, which allowed me to worship with Madison, who was only 70 months older, and we've been business partners and colleagues ever since.

Kara: 13:59

Another one that gives me the chills. Like yeah, Be that person, even if you don't know what you're doing.

Donna: 14:05

the mother will so appreciate somebody saying oh my God, let me hold your baby.

Kara: 14:09

Well, and I think that's the unique position that I feel like.

Kara: 14:12

Okay, now I feel a little bit I don't know if privileged is the right word but I guess I'm glad for the position I'm in now, because I have this awareness I didn't have before. So I may not have asked to hold the baby or whatever that thing might be, because I think, as humans were wired to be a little shy from anything that's different and that we're not familiar with. Now I feel like so enmeshed in this community and the disability community, this doesn't feel foreign anymore, and so I feel like I don't have that perhaps, barrier that some people might, and I'm really glad for that. Like I really really genuinely thankful for that. But I feel like I get to have this whole other world that some people don't even know exists, and that feels good to me. I want to turn and look at a very different part of your life. That is what you mentioned earlier gardenuity, and so this is a business that you and your partner founded. First tells a little bit about what this company is, what it does and kind of your heart behind it.

Donna: 15:05

Yeah, absolutely. I can start by saying I'm not a master gardener, and that's okay.

Donna: 15:09

Neither am I. we really looked at data and recognize that we could change the landscape of, in the success ratio, the people who wanted to garden the way it lived today. So, whether you're just have a person, a balcony, a patio or a fallen yard, or you're in a wheelchair, you should be able to reap the benefits that come from gardening that have been documented, researched for decades. Just putting your hands in soil is a way to release serotonin, so if you're feeling anxious, go dig in the dirt. Being putting fresh herbs in your smoothie or on your omelet is a way to add nutritional value to what we eat, and all of this is good for the planet. So there's so much data that talks about how good gardening is for you.

Donna: 15:58

We wanted to bring the gardening experience to the wellness economy. and we have been very blessed. We have patent technology to make you successful as you grow and we look at it a little bit differently. So we work with probably 80% of our business is through corporate partners. Great example is, if you've got a signa insurance, you can use your signal wellness dollars to buy our gardens. Every garden is an experience.

Donna: 16:26

So we are in the "food as medicine space, we're in the mental health space and we're in the good for the planet space, and so we work with corporations bringing the wellness benefits of gardening to their employees. Now we're also have a website and we do a lot of programming with. I want to get my kids to start thinking about eating healthy, or Earth Day is coming up. We really want to make them understand how good gardens are for the planet, and there's so much documented research here that talks about kids who grow something are more cognizant of sustainability and what they need to do to protect the planet, along with what they're consuming in their body. So all of that means that Garden Duty means ingenuity in gardening, but we're really part of the wellness space.

Kara: 17:21

Oh man, I shared with you earlier, before we started recording, that my first career was. I mean, my degree is in horticulture. So, like I'm into plants and years I spent in the soil as you described, I don't miss having that be my career, but I do miss getting to walk through nurseries. I will say that what a cool story. So how did you happen upon this data? How did you find this?

Donna: 17:46

niche. I've been in retail forever and I love data, I love fixing a problem and the industry was okay with 90% failure rate for first time gardeners and I thought, okay, what they're not doing is personalizing the experience for the customer or for the plants. So we have patent and technology called Gardenuity Match. That aligns you with what you'll be successful with, but it also aligns the plants with the nutrients they need and the ongoing care that they need. So our success ratio is 95%. But one of the things we have really been true to is you need to participate, because in that participation that you reap the wellness benefits.

Donna: 18:36

So our tropical desktop farms, for example, come as a kit, super simple to put together, but it includes a mister. And so that, mister, we say every day, before you turn on your computer, take two or three seconds and mist the tropical plants. It's in those two or three seconds you can grow your practice of gratitude, and if you start your day being grateful for something, then you're in a better place. And when I get to see Jillian roll her little wheelchair out to our small patio, and pick a tomato and eat it.

Donna: 19:09

The joy is real. So how can we make the experience and the benefits of gardening accessible to everybody. Your container gardening experiences.

Kara: 19:20

Oh, I love it, I'm all in and I think that, yes, you described this experience that I have in terms of bringing the littlest moments and having those be the joy that we get from these plants. So for me, it's like I walk out in my front yard and drink my coffee, get my morning sunlight, and I just look at my plants because they make me happy and maybe I'll like grab a weed, maybe I'll think why that plant needs to get replaced, what am I going to put there? But it's just a very small part like. It's a little little part that, for me, brings me a lot of joy. So that's why I'm like, yes, I want everyone to have a garden, whether it's a desktop garden like you're describing or something that's on a patio or out in the yard.

Kara: 19:58

So I think this is really cool.

Donna: 19:59

Watching something grow is so good for you mental health and finding those moments where, if we take care of us, then we can take care of everybody who needs us, and even if it's just for a few moments a day, it's taking a deep breath and letting nature nurture us.

Kara: 20:18

Oh, I like that If so many good taglines letting nature nurture us. So you mentioned early on you were a single mom. You worked the whole time you started this business. Obviously, a lot of us know the caregiving demands of a child that has a lot of medical complications and other types of needs. How did you balance both? What did this look like for you to have it work for both you and your business and your family?

Donna: 20:44

In full disclosure I married, I got married before I started the business. I've been married almost 11 years, (but stil)l you know what? I married the most extraordinary man who has adopted the kids and who loves them like their own. A funny aside, I had an IT guy, that I was working with at another company, say to me one time, "you know, chances of you ever getting remarried are pretty low. You work all the time, you're getting kind of old and you have a kid who will live with you forever.

Kara: 21:16

I was like he really said that out loud. I mean, maybe you think it, but it wasn't wrong.

Donna: 21:20

But I thought, yeah, I wasn't making any of that with the most amazing man ever. But when people ask me about balance, I kind of call BS on that, because you can't go into a year saying I'm going to be balanced, I'm going to work out all the time I mean it's minute by minute, and choices you make right now impact how something turns out in an hour. And so for me it was recognizing that. It was recognizing that it was choices that I'm going to make today are going to be impactful on a whole bunch of areas. But I got to take care of me and I share this story. Be okay with Oreos. So Madison was her cookie day and all these other mothers on their cookie day brought like monogram cookies and I mean over the top cookies, and I was traveling, got in from a business trip at about 1130 at night. Next day was cookie day and I was tired, and so I picked up Oreos on the way to class and I was okay with it and let me tell you, nobody didn't like an Oreo.

Kara: 22:45

Everybody loves.

Donna: 22:45

Everybody loves Oreos. and Madison didn't care and what she remembers is that I was there. So that's my idea of explaining balance. You know, be okay in the moment with okay, and at the end of the day, nobody really remembers. And if some mothers made some comments, I don't care. They're not my people, but everybody loves an Oreo. And so I just took a deep breath and said this is what it is, this is okay for now.

Kara: 23:17

Yeah, everyone does love an Oreo and the gluten-free Oreos, I'll have to say, are really good. A gluten-free sound like, yeah, man, they nailed that. Okay, two stories I wanna share, just cause one's so funny and then one's reiterating the point that you just made. First one is our family has I guess it's an inside joke about potlucks that we always bring bananas. Now, because there were so many times that my kids were like Mom, I gotta bring something for a potluck. And so of course I'm learning of it the day off. And so we look around the house like what can we bring? And we see a bunch of bananas on the counter here, bring the bananas. And so that happened one time and that was like the desperate that was our Oreos. I didn't even go to the store, and so now one of my sons will be like hey, mama i need some bananas, we're gonna have a potluck, and like it's just funny, cause it's

Kara: 24:03

turned into kind of a thing Anyhow. So that is our family joke. S o just bring the bananas on the counter. You don't even have to go to the store, or I won't even put it out there that you can show up with nothing. Sometimes that works. Sometimes too, that's right. Okay, then going back to what you said about your choices today impacting your life now, and there's been a couple of times, even just this last week.

Kara: 24:26

So at the time of this recording, I am preparing for a surgery for my son that's coming up in just about five days and we've done a lot of surgery and so very well acquainted to how hard it is. It's a higher stress time. So I had, but I knew this surgery was coming a couple of months ago. So I started doing little things to build the foundation that I knew I would need. So the first one was I got reconnected with a house cleaner, cause we hadn't had one of the times. I got the house cleaner established, cause you know that's not easy, right, like you have to like, have them come, get the quote. You gotta make sure you like them, blah, blah, blah. It's not like a just call up somebody and it's done in my experience. So it took a little bit. So now that's in place.

Kara: 25:06

So I'm, you know, as she came over last time and my house was clean and I got to have just that little bit of like oh okay, like one less thing that I have on my plate, and I was like thankful for the previous me that had done that. And then another small thing is I work from home and so oftentimes I you know, lunchtime comes and I'm like, oh, what do I eat? I haven't planned ahead, but I grabbed a cup or handful of frozen meals from Trader Joe's right. So this is not a complicated thing. I just threw a couple of things in my cart, thinking this is gonna be really handy when I'm lazy and need something quick, healthy-ish to eat. And so, as I've been microwaving those meals, I was just like you know what, that's a choice that I made back then, that I'm really thankful that I had my back in the grocery store thinking, hey, I'm gonna need a quick-ish meal. And so I think that's like maybe the actual, tangible examples for the concept that you are describing.

Donna: 26:01

I think putting yourself on your to-do list. We don't do well, and I talk about it every day that you have to put yourself on your to-do list. I'm not great at it every single day, but when I am, even if it's just, like you said, walking out to your front yard and letting the sunshine kind of pour over you for a few minutes, you have to take care of you because without you things aren't gonna work perfectly. And I think preparing for me I really like a clean house and Friday night I do laundry so I'm not burdened with it Saturday. I mean, there's little things I do for me that just make it so I feel like I can truly sit down and be present with Jillian and just hang or do something fun with Scott. So how do you prepare your other three kids for a surgery that's coming up? It's pretty serious.

Kara: 26:58

The really good question. There's a lot of little things. I think it starts with making sure they understand what's going on, right, like explaining to them what the surgery is. What do we expect afterwards? And this is one I, like I mentioned. We've been talking about it for a little bit, we've kind of been anticipating it, but more recently we had a dinner, a family dinner, and just speak.

Kara: 27:21

The nature of our family right now is that there's a lot of activities at night so we haven't been able to gather as a family for dinner. There's a lot of people and so this particular night everyone was gonna be home. So husband and I decided, okay, let's grab some like quickish food. We got burritos. We live in San Diego so that's like our go-to yum. Everyone loves them. We grabbed easy food so we can kind of gather. I knew everyone was gonna be happy with our food and the idea that, like I wanted a time where we could kind of be like okay, how are you all doing? What questions do you have?

Kara: 27:52

I noticed I was really starting to feel the impacts of the stress. I was really kind of struggling with the overwhelm and still, you know, it's not like it's completely gone right, like that's the real experience over here. and my husband and I led a conversation where, hey, this is gonna be a time where we're gonna come together as a family, we're gonna have each other's backs and we're going to give each other a little bit of grace and you might notice that we're a little stressed out and you're welcome to ask us about it and my husband said, hey, do we wanna have a code word when it's like, hey, you need to take a break, mom, because you're a little intense right now, because I can tendtend to get a little intense, I go to kind of more serious and like almost like a drill sergeant when I'm really stressed out. Nobody likes it, including myself. It doesn't feel good to be in that energy. So that's one thing that we've done.

Kara: 28:43

And in previous surgeries we had a little bit more time. Well, actually we did have some time, but we also it was expected to be a bigger surgery and probably longer hospital stay and just all around more scary, and so what I did is I got a point person for each of my children and kind of to be their person, to be the person that was praying for them, that had it was kind of their go-to person and that they feel comfortable with, so someone that wasn't mom or dad, but that they had an adult that they could be supported by. So that was another thing that I did for the kids. I also got one of them actually I think all of them. I got them. I don't remember what I called them, but I got them actual physical gifts.

Kara: 29:24

Yeah, because, like one of them was a hat, was for my youngest son and I actually have the experience as a child. My brother had heart surgery so pretty major surgery and I remember feeling completely lost and neglected and to the point where I was like I wish I was having surgery, which, of course, is like no, of course that's how children think. Right, they don't understand that you really don't want me having heart surgery. But I remember feeling kind of left behind and so I just talk openly with my kids like this is the gift I'm giving you, because I want you to know you're not left behind. You might feel like it sometimes and wear this hat and know that that's not supposed to happen here.

Kara: 30:04

So those are just things that kind of come to mind.

Donna: 30:07

That's such great counsel to have a point person for each of your children. So I have to say I was blessed by one of my favorite humans in the world, a girlfriend who recognized that so much time and attention and financial was going towards Jillian. So she asked me and I hope I get to do this someday for somebody if she could be Madison's secret friend and so out of the blue, on a regular Wednesday or a birthday or some big occasion or no occasion at all, there would just be something left and it was signed your secret friend.

Donna: 30:47

Madison didn't find out who that was till she was in college and she kept saying this person knows a lot about me. She did not know but, it was something that Jillian didn't have. It was just about Madison and I mean it had a tremendous impact and they were at. Some were little goofy things, Some were big things, but it was Unbelievable.

Kara: 31:14

Oh my gosh, I love this and I'm like man, if only we could reproduce this friend of yours. I'm like this is amazing. I know she's amazing, wow, and it just goes to show that. I mean not that it didn't take nothing to orchestrate that, because that's obviously like a long-term commitment and actually really, really generous but it's these little things that make such a big difference, such a big difference for us.

Donna: 31:38

The fact you had the initiative to call friends and say will you be on point. That's a leadership trait that should be cherished and shared and put on a billboard, because that's hard to do to ask for help.

Kara: 31:51

Yeah, and it's something I talk about a lot because it is a practice. Remember I talked about any how thing is usually goes back to practice. I have a lot of episodes that can refer people back to listen specifically about this, and actually I did quite extensive breakdown of that time in my life where we were really intently doing this. And let's talk about leadership, okay, cause I'm big on leadership. So, for anyone new to the podcast, my training is in leadership coaching, and so I originally started as a life and executive coach.

Kara: 32:23

I did not have the intention of working with any mom like myself. I wanted nothing, no more, no more of what I had. And long story short, here I am today I'm doing the leadership focused coaching to moms like us, and so I'm particularly interested in your thoughts, because you quite literally are a leader of a company. You hold the title CEO of your company, and I'd love to hear how you see the two worlds colliding, how you show up and have shown up as a mother and as well as your business. So what are the top? Maybe two or three leadership characteristics or traits that you see really have a huge impact in both areas.

Donna: 33:08

First of all, I think, even if you're not working outside the home, you're a leader, precisely, and you're leading your family and you're leading your children, and so qualities that I think are important to me, both at home and at the office as the leader certainly resilience, because not everything is going to go the way you want it to go and you have to be resilient. Patient in a hurry is my number two. I want to be patient, but sometimes you got to hurry it up, and I think that that's important. Number three is listening. I think this is something that I share often.

Donna: 33:53

I think in our 20s we listen with the idea of what's our next job. In our 30s and 40s we listen in a hurry because we've got a lot of stuff going on, whether it's kids, work or whatever it might be. When you turn 50, you listen with the joy of learning and you really listen. I wish I would have learned how to listen better younger, because as a leader at home or at the office, that proves very helpful. And, finally, faithful to your core ideals. I mean, don't go away from your core values, because people have joined you and aligned with you, because they align with your core values, and I think that's something that Madison would say and Jillian would communicate at home, but at the office and people know where I stand- Thank you.

Kara: 34:46

Wow, that was such a eloquent way of describing all these different aspects and I just can't emphasize enough that the vantage point that I have working with I still do coach leadership teams and people in actual business leadership roles, as well as the mothers, and so I wholeheartedly agree that I relate to the mothers, whether they're working outside the home or not, as the CEO of their household. I mean not to discredit the fathers, but I think if you look at the actual role, it is much more aligned with the mother, especially in caregiving is usually holding that role not all cases, obviously. As you were talking, I was like, oh my gosh, I feel like we should all print business cards for our home life and like to have them to give to the doctors, to be like I'm the CEO.

Donna: 35:33

Yeah, that's how you should relate to me People who have had the opportunity to stay home and not need to finance the wherewithal to work. If they ever choose to go back to the workforce, they have traits that are going to be a huge value to any company. And I look at Jillian. You know so many people are trying to figure out their why. what's my job, what am I supposed to be doing? And Jillian, I was one of the lucky ones that she came into this world knowing she was going to be a teacher. And if she teaches and I think every special needs child does patience, perseverance what joy really looks like. And I think any opportunity we have to invite others who are not part of our world into our world, they benefit. Like I go on bandwagon saying every single human being should attend at least one special Olympics competition because it totally changes your life forever, and I think that we should acknowledge that we're leaders of these human beings who are actually teaching love and joy and resilience, and that's a pretty big responsibility.

Kara: 36:55

And I just can't pass up the opportunity to acknowledge that. I think the kids that we have teach us that our value in life here in this planet is not in what we produce and how many dollars we make in the company that we found. But that actually is not the value of who we are, that we are innately valuable because we are human, and I think that's this lesson, that maybe it shouldn't be so hard. But I think those of us that were raised in the States here, it's like it's ingrained in you, like the value of getting good grades, going to the college, making money, and if you're not doing those things, if you fall off that bandwagon like, then what, like, what is this why it's just actually so freeing to really realize this.

Donna: 37:38

I love that you mentioned that and don't look it your other kids to feel the void of what your child with special needs might not be doing according to social. And I look at Madison and she did good grades and she is doing very well in her career. But she's nice. Don't undervalue raising nice kids and Madison is the first to help somebody with special needs or to push Jillian. We make Jillian do stuff. She has to toqw the road. You scoot around the floor if you're not in your wheelchair and guess what? You have a mess, clean it up. And a lot of that was Madison. It just became who she was. So I think I have worked with a couple of families who they're putting too much pressure on their mainstream kids and okay, we're a family and don't push them in ways. Let being nice and being a good human being and being somebody who loves wholeheartedly be one of the best things about them.

Kara: 38:54

Definitely I align with that completely.

Kara: 38:56

As you were describing the aspects of leadership that come to your mind, one of the things that I thought of because I just brought on my second team member right, so now there's three of us here involved in my business and producing the podcast, which is very exciting, and it really had me step up my level of leadership.

Kara: 39:16

I can't now lack a little bit. I have to show up ready for them and I actually love that. It's kind of challenged me a little bit in a really good way, as I relate to, because I think that the way that I okay these people are going to follow my lead and we don't always have that luxury when we're out there in a doctor's office or at a school. However, I do think it's a way of being that we can embody and really stepping into that role of thinking, being intentional like that, patience and hurry, that dynamic and oh my gosh, the listening that you mentioned. Like that is a skill that, weirdly, we're actually not taught and actually it's the primary skill I use as a coach, so not to say like, oh, wow, I'm so good at this now, but I have practice a bit and I get the privilege of seeing people like the aha moments come when they actually are able to listen and it is a real gift actually when we were able to listen to somebody and it's a gift to be listened to.

Donna: 40:16

Well, congratulations to you to growing your team. But here's what I share with other leaders when they see you take care of yourself, that gives them cultural permission that they can put themselves on their own to do list, and so we, as leaders, need to set forth an example, both at home and in the office.

Kara: 40:37

A hundred percent, and I think that for those of us that have multiple kids and not just our disabled child but other kids like they're watching too, and if they see you never rest and grinding, always like that, that is going to be what they replicate, and I don't think that would be I'm going to call it a curse that we would give or put on anybody at all. So as we start to kind of wrap up, ending on the garden note, I love the intentionality that you bring to bringing plants to everybody, to making them accessible. So I want to give people one opportunity yes, go look at your website, go order something, and if that is not accessible, right, if you're like. Ok, I just don't have any extra dollars what would you give them as a place to start to start enjoying all of the benefits that you shared earlier?

Donna: 41:23

Go outside, you know. Take your shoes off, walk in the grass, let nature nurture you, sit under a tree. I think that there are so many studies that nature can teach us, so many life lessons. All of us have witnessed walking somewhere or seeing on a freeway a single flower growing out of a crack. That is thought provoking. How can we grow despite the fact that life is crappy some days? You know, a mother is only as happy as her unhappiest child, like Godmother shared that with me.

Donna: 42:00

And I get it so by nature. Wherever you are I mean, if it's going to a nursery and just breathing in the plants make that something that you just do. If you can't afford even a small little plant, enjoy the plants that other people are nurturing.

Kara: 42:23

That's really beautiful advice and comes from somebody that I think has had a life journey where, perhaps, especially in those early years my guess is that financially, there were some hard moments becoming a single mom with two children, and all of that so well. Thank you for all that you do, for who you are as a leader, for bringing your bright, beautiful being to this community and to, specifically, the podcast. Thank you so much for being a guest on the Special Needs Mom podcast.

Donna: 42:52

Thank you very much.

Kara: 42:53

All right, that is a wrap. We will see you on the next episode.