Finding Purpose Through Parenting Invisible Differences with Kari Baker

In this heartfelt episode, I sit down with Kari A. Baker, an inspiring mom, author, and advocate for families navigating life with invisible neurological differences. Kari shares her journey of becoming a "KIND mom" after her son Brady was diagnosed with autism at age three. Together, we dive into topics like letting go of the "fixing" mindset, embracing the unexpected joys of parenting, and finding hope and purpose in life’s challenges.

Kari talks about the evolution of her life—transitioning from a career in financial services to founding KIND Families, a supportive community for families like hers. She also opens up about her struggles with control, the lessons she’s learned from her faith, and the incredible ways her son has surprised and inspired her.

Whether you're a mom at the start of your special needs journey or further along, Kari’s story will remind you that even in the hard moments, there’s room for gratitude, growth, and kindness.

Connect with Kari:

• Order Kari’s Book:
  • Hardback
  • Ebook on Amazon
• Connect with Kari Online:
  • Website: kindfamilies.com | kariabaker.com
  • Social Media: @kariabaker on Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn
  • Podcast: The KIND Families Podcast on Apple Podcasts and Spotify

Connect with Kara, host of The Special Needs Mom Podcast:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thespecialneedsmompodcast/
Website: https://www.kararyska.com/

Join the Community:
Pathway to Peace Coaching Community is currently open for enrollment. Instantly get access to authentic community and weekly coaching! Give yourself the gift of growing alongside moms who deeply understand you and will be with you in your joys and sorrows. --------> Learn More HERE

Transcript

Speaker: 0:05

Hi, I'm Kara, life coach, wife and mom to four incredible and unique children. It wasn't all that long ago that my son received a diagnosis that had my world come crashing down. I lacked the ability to see past the circumstances, which felt impossible. And the dreams I once had for my life and family felt destroyed. Fast forward past many years of surviving and not at all thriving, and you'll see a mom who trusts that she can handle anything that comes her way and has access to the power and confidence that once felt so lacking. I created the special needs mom podcast to create connection and community with moms who find themselves feeling trapped and with no one who really understands. My intention is to spark the flair of possibility. In your own life and rekindle your ability to dream. This isn't a podcast about your special needs child. This is a podcast about you. If you are a mom who feels anxious, alone, or stuck, then you are in the right place. Welcome.

Speaker 2: 1:14

Hello, and welcome to the Special Needs Mom podcast. I'm so glad you're here. Today's episode is an interview style episode with Kari Baker, and I'll tell you a little bit more about her in a second. Always hard to summarize a conversation, but I think that if you have ever found yourself wondering, As a mom, how you get back the life you had planned, this episode is going to be perfect for you. We talk about a lot of things. We talk about some control issues or, and this is like self proclaimed, and I think a lot of us will relate to that. And let me tell you a little bit about Kari. Kari is a former financial services executive and business owner turned author, speaker, and fellow podcaster. She's the founder of Kari. Kind families, a community of people who love kids with invisible neurological differences. Do you see what you did there? Like kind K I N D kids with invisible neurological differences and the host of the kind families podcast, Kari became a kind mom in 2014 when her son Brady was diagnosed with autism at age three. She started Kind Families to encourage, support, and inspire others to find purpose and promise in kindness. Her first book, Finding Kind, features a foreword written by her very own son, Brady. It's pretty cool. It's a beautiful book. So we'll talk about it more in the episode. I encourage y'all to check it out. And without further ado, let's welcome Kari. Thanks for tuning in. I'm your host, Keri.

Kara: 3:01

Welcome, Kari, to the Special Needs Mom Podcast.

Kari: 3:05

Thank you so much for having me.

Kara: 3:07

Yeah, I'm looking forward to the conversation. So we always get started with what I call your becoming and, this is just a funny way of saying, who are you? so why don't you give us a a snapshot of your life now and you know, of course, how you got here.

Kari: 3:22

Sure. So kind of joke that I'm in version 2. 0 of my life.

Kara: 3:27

I like that. I

Kari: 3:28

There might be earlier versions that I just don't want to remember. But spent 30 years in the financial services industry. Actually, I was a I'm a 401k consultant. I helped companies manage their retirement plans and do education at, you know, sessions for their employees and, really thought I would do that forever. And as tends to happen in your life, your life plan doesn't always go the way that you expect it to. So, things started to change a little bit when I had my son, Brady, I had him a little bit older, so I was almost 40 when I had him. He is my only child. Yes, having that baby at 40. It was we one and sure

Kara: 4:05

huh.

Kari: 4:06

But know it apparent within the first couple years of having him that we were not going to have a typical parenting path And, for a long time, I was managing the business side of things with the mom's side of things. And over the course of many years, I just started to really get pulled away from the financial services side. It just, I didn't have a passion for it anymore. It didn't. feel as important to me as the care and encouragement of other moms who are going through something similar to what we were going through. So, I got the opportunity in 2023 to sell my practice and decided to focus a hundred percent on kind families. so kind families is a community that, is for family members. And advocates and friends of kids with invisible neurological differences. so right now that really just looks like a lot of encouragement through writing and podcasting and speaking. I have a book, that we wrote about our family's experiences and, you know, we're excited to see where that goes in the coming year and as we continue to grow it, but, it has become really important to me to share, Number one, my story so that other moms don't feel alone, to share some inspiration and hope because, we do have some great, victory stories with our son, Brady. the whole last section of the book actually are Brady stories of, of some really cool things that he did and ways that he's surprised us and ways that he's touched other people in our lives. So, we really just want. to reach out to the mom who's maybe just at the beginning of her journey and is needing a little bit of hope that, first of all, she can find joy in the journey, even through the hard things, there is a way to find hope and purpose through it. And secondly, to never underestimate. What your kid is going to be able to do. So, I do have a husband. I didn't really mention him, but he is the Brady's dad.

Kara: 6:06

I never mentioned

Kari: 6:07

but it's just John and my husband and Brady and me and a hound dog named Leah. So yeah. Yes.

Kara: 6:15

is one of the most important members of our family. My kids always ask me, Who's your favorite? Who's your favorite kid? I was like, Sally. Sally's my favorite kid. I don't know. They don't like that answer they all want to be the favorite it's like so important to them. I'm like, okay guys I love all of you Well, it's mostly my littlest that she's like, who's your favorite mom? Who's your favorite and then she'll go tell her siblings like mom told me and I don't say anything at all Mom told me that I'm I am her favorite like she's funny. And you're in Scottsdale, Arizona, is that where you've always been? Always resided?

Kari: 6:49

I grew up in Washington state in Spokane, Eastern and in Northern Idaho. And so, I, we've been down here since I was in high school and then I spent 10 years out in Southern California as well after college. So I never thought I'd leave Southern California and the beach, but, got

Kara: 7:06

We're in SoCal.

Kari: 7:07

started out in Hermosa Manhattan beach area and then, wound up in Long Beach. For

Kara: 7:13

huh. Got it.

Kari: 7:14

So I loved it there. So I have very dear friends there. So I visit

Kara: 7:18

That's a nice thing. You can come. Yeah. Come visit.

Kari: 7:20

Yes.

Kara: 7:21

Okay. So thanks for that little picture. And. Why don't you share a little bit about, kind of your, steps into, like, you shared that it was apparent that he was going to have some disabilities and in your case, invisible, and actually I'd love if you would explain what you mean by that and kind of what, what were the cues that, you were going to be joining the club that we are in together.

Kari: 7:47

Well, so, you know, keep in mind that I was nearly 40 when I had my son and all my friends had had babies 15 years earlier, so I was not around little kids a lot, so I didn't really have anything to compare to, so a lot of the things that were definitely unique about Brady, I didn't apply to being anything other than just a little kid. All kids are different. So, it really did start though when I would take him to playdates with other kids and really, you know, the purpose of those playdates is to get to know the other moms when they're that young. And Brady would just have nothing to do with the other kids. So I would spend the whole playdate either, you know, Trying to drag him back to play with the other kids or chasing him out the front door because he would just try to escape. And used to joke that I needed to get a babysitter for these play dates. Cause I never got a chance to actually talk to the moms. And so, you know, that was kind of interesting to me,, and then we, we started him in preschool and drop off every day was a full blown meltdown. teachers. promised me that he was fine just a couple minutes after I left but we started noticing in the pictures that the teachers would send home that brady was never around the other kids So when the kids were in circle time around the teacher We would notice in the pictures that brady was in the back of the room rolling around on his back and If they were out on the playground all the kids were playing something together and brady was off on a tricycle by himself or Something like that we had, you know, difficulty with transitions. He had some very passionate interests in the Wiggles. So, you know, a lot of younger moms might not know the Wiggles, but, you know, the four Australian men that sing and dance and cavort. And it was one thing that he was interested in the show itself, but we got a lot of the DVDs and, He would take the DVD covers and line them up on our Ottoman. And then while the show was playing in the background, he would just sit and stare and rock back and forth looking at the DVD covers. And eventually he wanted to pull those DVD cover insets out and he wanted us to cut out little parts of it. but what really kind of brought it to light, and I will tell you, I never thought autism. I, that was not in my mind. I went to his two year well check appointment and he had walked on time and he talked on time. And the doctor said, well, he walked on time, talked on time, we can take autism off the table. And so I was like, okay, well, I didn't even know autism was on the table, but okay, great. And so I wasn't. Even thinking along those lines. And one day I'd had a conversation with his preschool teacher and I came home and it was bothering me a little bit. She had said, you know, that there were definitely some speech issues that she noticed. She said that when she would ask him a question, he would just repeat it back to her. He wouldn't actually answer her. there were definitely developmental issues when it came to like potty training and things like that, where he was not in step with his peers. And I was just sitting at my desk and I was. Just distracted and I picked up a magazine that had been mailed to my house. One of those free kind of charity, you know, additions where they've just got pictures of all the people at the, in their ball gowns and stuff. And I usually never opened it, but that day I was. I was doing, wanting to do anything but work. I opened it up and there was a, an article in there written by a gal named Patty Dion and, her son had struggled his whole life. And when he was in his mid twenties, he was diagnosed with autism and you know, back in the day, this was many, many years ago, autism wasn't something that doctors or psychologists even looked for. It was considered so rare. And so, he had struggled most of his life and she had made it her life's goal to try to get kids identified earlier so that they could get more help, earlier in life. So at the bottom of that article was a link to an online quiz. And as I'm reading her description of Dave, her son, it was just startling how much he was like Brady. And so I got online, I took the quiz and sure enough, you know, 15 out of 15 questions. Yes. You need to have your child evaluated for autism spectrum disorder. And it just floored me. I mean, it just floored me. It was nothing. I'd even, it wasn't in my universe at all. And then all of a sudden, as soon as that notice popped up, actually probably about seven or eight questions down of clicking, yes, he does this. Yes, he does this. Yes, he does this. It started dawning on me. And then as soon as I saw that. Notice on my computer, I knew 100 percent that that's what we were dealing with. He had autism and. I didn't know anything about autism. I knew this really scary things about autism that you hear on TV. I didn't know anyone with autism. I didn't have a friend who had a child that was autistic. And so it was really a, just a kick in the gut. but at the same time, a full acceptance that this is what we were dealing with. And so it was, you know, the one thing that, we found when we started doing the research is that you have to get them in interventions as early as possible, as much as possible. So we kind of let ourselves grieve for 15 minutes and then I got on the computer and started saying, okay, now what do I do now? What do I do, you know, and running at a million miles an hour and trying to figure out, how to fix it.

Kara: 13:24

Yeah. Yeah, that's something that when you say it. like that, that's something as I perused I didn't get to read the whole book, but That's something that comes up in your book You share your own we'll say fixation of fixing him or attempt to fix him. And I'd love for you to share a little bit more about that. Like if you pull back the curtains and give us a picture of what you, in that fixing energy, what did that look like for you?

Kari: 13:51

Well, you know, it was, very difficult because there were waitlists everywhere for interventions at that time. And so we got this message. In our brain that we have to go, go, go, go. And then we'd try to go and we'd get stopped. And so we did, you know, someone told us that we need that our pediatrician said, you need to do ABA therapy. Well, we couldn't get into an ABA clinic for months. So we went online into care. com and we just searched, did a search term for ABA. And we hired this random woman to come into our house who had ABA experience and we paid her cash and she, you know, spent several hours a day with, you Brady while we were waiting to get into clinics. I applied at every clinic that was out there. I filled out intake forms as a full time job practically for just about every kind of speech, occupational therapy, physical therapy. I would be sitting in waiting rooms. with other moms at therapy offices, and they would tell me about some woman that, Oh, we took, our kid to miss Lisa. And Oh, we, the results were just, I'm like, okay, great. What's miss Lisa's phone number? You know? And it was just like, if you got spaghetti, I'll grab it and I'll throw it against the wall and let's see if it sticks kind of a thing. And really for for the most part, it was. I don't know if it was as much about fixing him as it was like, I need to get back to this life plan that I had so carefully figured out. Like I got thrown onto this path that I did not want to be on and I didn't expect to be on. And how do I get back there? How do I get back to that life that I thought I was going to have? Because I am a planner and I plan everything out very well. And usually, you know, what I plan happens and, And it took several years of doing that, of running and, and hiding, you know, we didn't understand autism when Brady was diagnosed. And so our initial perception of autism was scary. And we were afraid if we were honest with people about the diagnosis, that they would have that same fear of our son and maybe not let our son play with their kid or, you know, and, unfortunately that was. It's reinforced to some degree by some ignorant people that we came across in Brady's preschool and those kinds of things. So for several years, we didn't even say autism in the house. If we had to refer to it, we said, Hey, he had a, it was a big a day today. Like if he'd had a big meltdown or something and you know, it. I talk about it in the book that it finally dawned on me looking back after so many years that I was feeling this level of shame and it was not shame in my son. It was shame that I hadn't been able to execute on this life plan, on this parenting plan, that I wasn't getting the same experience that all the other moms in the preschool were having that, you know, they were looking at me saying, what did she do wrong? know, her kids got an aid in that. Why does she have an aid in the classroom with her kid? And, You know, it was just a very isolating experience. And, it wasn't until I had an occupational therapist who gave me somebody's name on a sticky note. And she said, you know, you need to call this gal, Amy, cause Amy's got a son. very similar to Brady's age. It's very similar to Brady. And she told me if I ever meet a new mom with a new diagnosis to have them call her. And so, I finally did that and got into a community of women who had kids that were very similar to Brady. Now, You know, everyone will tell you every kid who has autism is totally different and that's 100 percent true, but there are similarities to a lot of the, ways that it presents itself and finding that group of women that could speak my language and understood all the challenges that we were going through was the first step and me being able to say, gosh, I don't I'm not alone. Number one. And I don't have anything to hide. And, my son, you know, he's got all these really awesome qualities and skills and gifts. And, I was kind of. Missing those and focusing completely on all the challenges and how do I help them with the challenges I started to grow in my faith which was a really big component of that because I really started to understand that we are all made on purpose for a purpose and there are no mistakes in the way that my son was made and He does have gifts and passions and talents That are going to be impactful to other people and to this world. And, and so do I, you know, and it was, this wasn't a mistake that he wound up being my son. I was supposed to be his mom and I was equipped to be his mom, even though I didn't feel like it, you know, at the time, so it was, all of these kinds of revelations came to me over, you know, really a four or five year period of, getting to a point where I just couldn't run anymore. I just

Kara: 18:54

Mm hmm.

Kari: 18:55

I, I couldn't keep going under the guise that if I did the next thing, it was everything was going to be back to normal, you know, quotes,

Kara: 19:05

Yeah. It reminds me, after talking to so many moms and hearing their story, where they are, where they've come from, where they want to be. I broke it down into what I call the evolution of the special needs mom. And the first several phases are very similar. What you just described, like the first stage is called stunned and surviving. right. Like you are just like surviving, learning the language, not being able to say the a word, like that. Right. and so, so. For some people in your instance, right, it's going to be the more behavioral, more social, more like developmental and other people's story. it's starting with a NICU and, or in my case, it's starting with, my son had brain cancer. And so it's starting with a sudden, you know, hospitalization and a whole new language. So that's the first stage. And then the next stage is stabilized, yet self sacrificing. And that's the stage where like what you said is like, I couldn't go anymore. I couldn't do this anymore. Like you get to a point where it's that fixing energy. I have to do everything I can to help them. And if I don't, then essentially it's what you said earlier. I don't get to go back to my life story. And yes, it is out of love for our children, but it's that phase where we haven't fully Who they are and what you had said, like, haven't really fully been able to see and grasp, the perfection of who they are as they are. And that's a, it's a journey, Right. Like it doesn't happen in one day, in one moment. And I think, you know, if this is the evolution is not not necessarily, Linear. and then that next stage is what I call the rebellion. the first time I kind of named it, I called it alone and afraid, but really it's the rebellion because that third stage is when moms are like, I can't do this anymore. it's when the shift starts to be like, okay, no longer can I neglect myself? No longer can I pretend like we're going to go back to the old life I had before. And they start making changes, both how they show up for themselves, but also how they relate to their child. it's most of the time when moms reach out to me, cause they're at the point where they're like, something has to change and, anyhow, it's actually a beautiful stage. So. All of the stages are beautiful. none of them are easy. So, so you share a a couple of things that kind of helped you shift from that stabilize itself, sacrificing or that fixing stage, one being growing in your faith, to being really kind of seeing his purpose, his value. Is there anything else that comes to mind that helped you kind of let going of the fixing of him, to really embrace all that he is? now and will

Kari: 21:42

Right. Well, I think for me, it was a lot of it was fine. Also seeing all of these blessings that I had been missing all along. So, you know, like I was so mired in everything that was going on with me. I mean, my goodness. What we were going through, it was not life threatening for him. You know, he could walk, he could talk, he was verbal, he was, able, he was physically able and, you know, it was, recognition that, the things that we were dealing with that we could help him with too. You know, and, So gratitude is a big part of that, I think, is just looking back and saying, gosh, you know, and I would, when I finally started to realize it, I looked back and we had been really struggling in school for, a period of time because the school that we were in told us that we were not allowed to have an aid with him anymore. And I was in a panic mode over that. developmental pediatrician who's one of the best in the country here. They called and at noon and said, can you be here at one? And I said, yes. And so we got to see him and get on his patient list. And then he told us about an educational specialist that was another therapy group in town. And when I called them, they were at my son's school. At that very moment, I called the gal and she was like 40 feet from Brady's classroom. And she's like, well, let me just walk in there and I'll observe him for a little while. And, and in that process, they decided that the aid was actually holding him back. That he was becoming dependent on her and you know, we needed to wean him off of the aid so that he could Build that independence. And I just think about those, those kinds of things, like how I was able to, you know, walk into Dr. Milmed's office. And then, you know, an hour later, I had somebody observing Brady in a classroom setting and telling us that we were going down a wrong path and that this was the path that we needed to go. And so, you know, those kinds of just little, little miracles were happening all along the way with him. And, I had been missing it because I was so mired in what wasn't going right.

Kara: 23:55

Yeah. Which I think is such a common, a human thing, right? Like this is not unique to special needs moms, but I think this is what the value is of looking at our stories and you can look back and see that. They were there all along, you just weren't connected to them. And so that's where I think we can take this wisdom and then now apply it to our now and our future, so that we don't continue missing it. So that's why I think it's just so, great to have those look back moments. So there's another time in your book and the introduction of your book, you write, I am just a mom who learned to recognize my control issues and planning tendencies were keeping me from embracing the beautiful life I already had. So it's very consistent with what you were just sharing. So I wanted to see if you would share a little bit more about your self described control issues, because this is another big thing that comes up. you know, moms think that they're doing, you know, the Right. thing by helping their child that this, I would say like a frenetic, level. I won't go into the details now, but there's some stuff driving that that doesn't necessarily involve your child at all. It involves, meeting your own, your own needs. internal chaotic needs. However, back to the question, I wanted to see if you would tell us a little bit about what those control issues look like for you.

Kari: 25:11

Well, so I had my son much later, so I had a lot longer to get very set in my ways

Kara: 25:17

you did. Yeah, I think that that's love that you can appreciate that because I think that yes, it doesn't maybe not help.

Kari: 25:23

And you know, and I like things in things would get messy, you know, that was okay. but also, I have a need to be efficient in my time and to get things done. You know, my poor mom, we would try to go shopping together and I would just be like walking, you know, 15 miles an hour so that I could just get a quick look at all the racks. And if I didn't want to stay, I, and my mom just wants to saunter and, you know, roam quietly. And I, you know, that I wasn't about the journey when we would go shopping. I was about the, am I finding something that I'm going to buy? You know? And so, having, especially now with a teenager, Brady's going to be 14, in a couple of months and, letting him have the independence to do things in a way that's different from the way I would do it. In the most, you know, the more efficient way to do it and the neatest way to do It It won't create some huge mess that needs to be cleaned up. I still struggle with that every day. I mean, I decided this year he needed to make his own lunch. I wasn't going to make his lunch for him. And it is painful for me to watch him make his lunch and it takes. Forever. And there's usually mayonnaise on the couch, swiped on the counter or something like that. And it is all I can do to like, hang back and just, you know, let him know, you know, I'm not sure the kitchen is cleaned up as well as, in mom form. And he's like, mom, nothing's ever as clean as it needs to be in mom. For, you know, he's He's very familiar He's very familiar with my, my shortcomings when it comes to that. But, you know, I guess. The other thing was I, I would try to control, like, he's going to make this friend, you know, and the social part was what was really hard for me. And so I would force these social situations on him and until very recently when he finally got the self advocacy skill level and communication level to the point where he's like, mom, I don't want you to make my friends for me. I want to make my own friends. And. I just want so desperately for him to have that connection and those kids and those people that will be close with him for the rest of his life. And we've been really fortunate that he's made a couple, but you know what? None of them had anything to do with me. And that part of it is, is really cool and something that I have to remind myself about. he just recently, I mean, I will tell you about a conversation we had a couple days ago. And he said, Mom, you and Dad are picking on me all the time about every little thing. Can you just let some things rest?

Kara: 27:57

Ooh. Wise words from Brady.

Kari: 28:00

and he was 100 percent right. I mean, it was You know, you stop holding your fork that way, stop, you know, doing this. And it's, and I had a long talk with him that night and I said, bud, you know, I just, we are trying to fine tune all these things to send you out into the world. And we need to remember that you're 13 and we're not sending you out in the world tomorrow. And we need to just focus on the things that are going to, keep you safe and make you functional and all those, those kinds of things. So I'm, definitely not recovered from my control tendencies and don't know if I ever completely will be, but I am aware I'm more aware of them now. And with a teenager, especially on the spectrum, being able to let go of, The things that I know I could do for him faster and better, you know, and letting him do it slower and messier. but in his own way is the only way that he's going to build the independence that we want him to have. And so I have to constantly remind myself of that.

Kara: 29:04

Yeah, I appreciate you saying I'm not recovered in this area. I don't know that anyone really recovers because I also think there's, seasons we have in our life that really, ignites our need and desire to control. but the question I wanted to ask is, What do you find helps you make that letting go accessible? Because in some cases there's days, oh my gosh, like when my daughter has been wanting to make edible slime and that is translated to a huge mess in the kitchen. And also like, yeah, just gross. Honestly. I'm like, are we touching the slime and then eating it? I'm not sure what's happening. This is just terrible. Whatever. So she kept asking, mom, I might don't make this line. Mom, I want to make the slime. And I'm like, I don't have the capacity to have that happen in my kitchen just Right. now. Like you're going to have to wait until I can be at a place where I can let that go. and just let that happen, which was last night. And it was pretty fun to watch, honestly. not as gross as I thought, but pretty darn close. but what, what I think is important for us to. you know, as moms is to meet ourselves with the compassion that we need and recognize we can't force ourself to let go of control. That's actually very controlling. it's controlling our control, but that giving ourselves accessible ways, which is when I say accessible, it's like, what capacity do we have to let go of something? And so the question is like, what do you find that helps you or makes letting go, More, warm to you.

Kari: 30:36

Right. Right. well, it's funny, have you heard of the movie Yes Day?

Kara: 30:41

Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

Kari: 30:42

to everything. Well, we gave Brady one yes day, but I couldn't. from like the time we woke up until the time we went to bed. So it was from like 10 to four and we had already planned to go to a pool and have a, like a pool day and all that kind of stuff. But, so I knew what my limit was on the yes day. for what I was going to be able to say yes to completely. and for Brady, it's about watching movies and it's about eating junky food and things that, you know, he doesn't normally get to do, which I don't want him ever to do in full volume, you know, as much as he wants to, you know, but, I guess, he is. At the age now where he's able to advocate for things that are important to him. for instance, I love my boy with a neat, short haircut, but none of the boys are wearing their hair short right now. They are wearing it long and he has got curls in his hair and it is a big mop. But he said, mom, this is important to me. I want to have. And so I am biting my tongue and running my fingers through his hair before we leave to try to, you know, get it a little bit, better controlled. But, I try to ask myself about, he is creating his persona and his identity right now as a teenager. I can't make him into something that he's not. And so I've got to, you know, where I can, I, I once had, I had a friend whose daughter dyed her hair, like, like cotton candy pink, and I was shocked when I saw her and I, And I said, I can't believe you let her do that. And she's like, Kari, it's going to grow out and you got to pick your battles. And you know, she hated it the minute that she dyed' it, but now she's going to have to live with it. And that's going to be a really big lesson that she's going to learn. And that always stuck with me. Like if it's not going to hurt him. And it's just, We have time, you know, there are certain times when I can't wait for him to, make his lunch if we're trying to run out the door. Sometimes I have to go in there and make things, for him and make it move a little bit more streamlined. but I try to find the things that are not going to be, life changing, dangerous, or, really put him, you know, behind. So one of the things that I'm struggling with now too, is that I had a lot of control over his, schoolwork, and I would be over it. Like, did you get this done? Did you get this done? Did you get this done? And one of the things I'm realizing is it. And he's very, grade conscious. So, if he misses an assignment and gets an F on it, it's going to impact his grade and that's kind of devastating to him. and I used to be on top of all of that stuff so that he wouldn't have that moment of devastation. in seventh grade, it might've been in sixth grade. I just said, Buddy, I'm not going to be following on top of all your assignments anymore. And it doesn't mean I'm not going to be looking at your grades because I can look at them and then I can tell you, you know, you have a zero here for this assignment. What happened to that? And then, he's a little bit like, I don't know. I thought I turned it in. And, it's okay if he gets a B, but learns a lesson. That he needs to turn in his homework. so it's just about prioritizing the things that, allow them to be themselves, but aren't going to cause, you know, long term damage. And letting the mess happen every once in a while. my son loves to cook stuff too. So he did bring up the edible slime one time and I think I turned that one down, but he loves to make cookies and things like that. And there's just like, he stands in the kitchen throwing flour up in the air. I just don't even know how it gets into all the places that it gets to.

Kara: 34:31

To his defense, it also happens when my husband cooks,

Kari: 34:33

Yeah.

Kara: 34:34

so I don't, yeah. I don't know. I don't know. Like, I'm like, babe, we make pizza every Friday, I see the jar of pizza sauce in the refrigerator and I'm like, just wipe the flour off before you put it in the refrigerator. Like I don't know how that doesn't occur to you.

Kari: 34:50

know. Mm

Kara: 34:52

you for kind of giving us a little bit more about how you kind of dance with it, you know, like the things that you kind of lean into letting go of and yet still also have a hard time letting go of. So I think that's just, it's the dance of, I think being a mom period and then all the extra nuance with, our children. Okay. All Right. So being a mom to a child with any type of disability. Or neurodivergence, I think, asks moms to regulate their own nervous systems. at a much higher capacity than if they were not, not that, you know, every mom has to do this, but particularly because, you know, you described some of the meltdowns and some of the extreme behaviors and you shared in your book that you were the person that was his go to person. So you were the, you know, what we might call like the frontline woman bearing it all. And It's pretty safe to say that takes a huge emotional, physical, spiritual toll on a human being. So how do you, did you cope with this and how do you support yourselves to kind of re regulate it? after all these very, very challenging moments,

Kari: 36:05

Yeah. that took a while and it is, you know, when we talk about the mom, being the go to, usually it is the mom and you know, there were instances when Brady was not able to control his impulses and yelling things and saying things and he would come up with some very, very creative things. Horrible things to say about me in the process. He would never say that to another person, never to another human being. And I remember my parents being there one time when he kind of let loose and they were just floored. They could not believe, you know, that this would come out of their,

Kara: 36:41

I'm smirking right now because this is something we live to where, it's almost like there's two different people inside of one person where the way that Levi shows up, when he's regulated is, very sweet Yeah. Very charming and nobody would guess that he has the language that he does and he speaks the way he does when he's not like it's actually incredible, and most people don't get to see it. But I think if they did, they would be like, their aw might drop. They would be so surprised. So I think I just wanted to kind of say, yep, yep, been

Kari: 37:11

Yeah. It was interesting, you know, even I'm really close with my parents. They live three blocks away and they're super tight with Brady. they're just wonderful grandparents to him, but writing the book it was things that they had never, um, Understood we're actually going on. And, so, you know, as far as how did I recover for honestly, for the first few years, I didn't, I cried at night. I would hold it all in because, you know, the therapist really told us when he would react that way, he was feeding off of my negative energy. So if I just reacted back to him, it would just keep the ball rolling. And so I had to put on the poker face. And then pretend like everything was okay. And then I would go into my bedroom at night after I put him to bed and I would just let the tears fall down. and it really wasn't until I started getting rooted in faith that that started to change. It also helped with therapies with Brady, you know, with he, he needed to learn other outlets for, his dysregulation. And he. You know, I, I talked about it in the introduction. I just started to have to separate myself from him when he would get in those phases. and he didn't want to be separated from me. And so he started to learn that, okay, if I behave like this, mommy's going to go away until I calm down. And it took a lot of iterations for that to sink in with him. but I felt like I didn't have anybody to go to until I had God really. And I had my husband and we could talk about it, but you know, husbands are fixers too. So I love my husband to death and he's an amazing dad and he loves Brady more than anything, but I couldn't really. You know, just sit and spill my guts to him and have him just listen to me. And,

Kara: 38:58

Not to mention at the end of the day, you're probably exhausted and don't want to relive those moments and trying to explain them.

Kari: 39:04

no, exactly. And, and honestly didn't want to put that on him either. You know, he was working outside of the house at that point. And I was home with Brady and I was trying to run a business while I was home with Brady. So that added a whole other level of stress onto it. So if I had one of these episodes, then I'd have to go in and We're in a business meeting right afterwards. And it was like, okay, you know, wipe the eyes and all right. Hi everybody. I'm back, you know, and it, so I got really good at putting on the happy face and then going into my bedroom and, and crying. and then I just started as I started to leaning, lean into my faith, through a lot of really awesome guides and mentors at my church. And, just through my own real self study, I started really kind of diving into it. I realized that I'm not alone and that I do have an inner strength and that I do have the, even though I'm not feeling it, I am equipped to handle it. And, I think with autism as a diagnosis, Brady's always going to have. even as he gets older, where he's going to dysregulate and it's going to be, a difficult moment for us to get through, but I also now know him better and I know how to leave him alone and let him work through certain things and know that it's going to be okay and that he's going to come out and we're going to talk about it and it's going to be over. I didn't know that, you know, when I was, In the heat of it, I was just expecting the next, the next event, you know, I was anticipating it and we'd go to things and sometimes, you know, you asked about the invisibility of Brady's condition and, you know, there were times that we could Pass off like Brady was just typical, like every other kid. He looks just like every other kid. I used to joke that he's, you know, I think he's better looking, but you know, he's, he looks just like every other boy. And so, you know, we could go to events and certain outings where there wouldn't be a meltdown and I would come home and I'd get in the car and be like, Oh my gosh, thank you. You know, we got through that one and, and I didn't even have to think about, Autism, and then there were others that weren't, and it was just getting through it. And, I guess, you know, as far as my coping strategy now, I know that he's going through real things. And so it's not, I've moved on past the point where anything he's doing is against me. It's not, it's a real experience and overload. And what I need to do is be there for him when he's ready to talk to me about it and understand that that's just a function of the way his brain is wired. He's not faking it. He's not putting it on. He's not attacking me. Now I will say like, He learned and it has been years since he's ever unleashed any kind of verbal attack and he was never physical. Thank goodness. And I have friends who are dealing with kids who are physical. Yeah. And the older they get, the scarier it gets. so, you know, we are really blessed that we have moved past that, but you know, you have to, Protect yourself. This is what I've told a very dear friend of mine. Who's got a nine year old. That's as tall as she is, that has these kinds of very physical meltdowns and she has to protect herself and she has to let go of any concern about what's going to happen in the room where he's in, you know, we want to keep him safe as much as possible, but she's got to keep herself safe too. and just work with as many professionals as you can to figure out how can, how can that trigger that is. And the experts have told me we're their safe spot. We are the place where they do. They know they can. who they are in the moment with no restraint, no restriction. And unfortunately that can be devastating. So I certainly, You know, I feel for any mom who is going through that on a physical or an emotional level, you know, I can look back now and kind of giggle that some of the things that he said to me, I said, I should have known he was going to be a creative writing, you know, expert. Cause he came up with some stuff that I was like, I was almost so impressed with how he put this scenario together that I didn't

Kara: 43:22

You're like,

Kari: 43:22

hit me that hard. Wow. That was creative.

Kara: 43:26

equally proud and

Kari: 43:27

Yes,

Kara: 43:27

the same time.

Kari: 43:28

right, right, right. Oh

Kara: 43:30

That's really funny. and we were obviously not going to go into it in this episode, but I guess I want to, for, for moms that are like, Oh my gosh. that's me. I deal with the, either the verbal or the violence or like all of it together. then afterwards, like your nervous system is of course, It's very dysregulated and you don't know what to do with that. I can help you with that. So don't consider that it has to stop there. reach out and I can tell you about all the different, ways to support yourself because, We, as moms, don't deserve to live like that, not having the skills to cope with that, because Oh, that just honestly, even just thinking about it, it sounds so excruciating to not have the skills to be able to support yourself through those kind of challenges. So I just want to put a little note in there. And one last question. So you, like many moms, have. you're in your 2. 0. So you have a whole career behind you working in the professional, you know, financial management field where you showed up, you know, and we're obviously very successful and congratulations on selling your business. And so I was curious if you look back, if you see aspects of, what allowed you to succeed in your professional life that you borrowed or brought over to you, essentially, excelling and being the mom that you are, and I guess the author that you are, anything that you see that kind of, queued you up for version

Kari: 44:54

Yeah, well, it's really funny because I kind of went into business initially because that's just was the smart, thing to do. That's what you did if you wanted to make a good living and that sort of thing. And, but pieces of that life that I loved were sitting down one on one with employees and helping them, you know, I would sit down with the same employees every year and see them marching a little bit closer to their goals. And, I loved doing in person, Speaking engagements and education type of sessions and those were the pieces that I loved what I did not Love was all the quarterly meetings where we talked about the exact same thing with the executives over and over again And I didn't love the corporate world. I did it first, but you know, certainly after my son was born I started getting very disillusioned with corporate America and oh my gosh, and and You know, it was, was so natural. I, I'd always felt really good about the things I, would write. So I would put pieces together that were educational pieces or I'd put presentations together where I felt like I could, insert some humor and make finance not so dull and boring and, and try to teach and empower and encourage. And so. When I started really feeling pulled away from that. And it was funny because the more my, my husband used to call me an autism magnet because it seemed like after Brady was diagnosed, we didn't know anybody at first. And then like two years later, everybody in my church and so I would go and have these coffees, these one-on-one coffees with moms, and we would talk for two or three hours and. Come home and John finally said, he's like, you know, it'd be nice if maybe you could have some of these conversations to a wider audience. So you're not, you know, two hours once, one at

Kara: 46:42

spending 25 hours a week at coffee. We're going

Kari: 46:44

Exactly. Plus I'm like digesting a thousand calories of fancy coffees, but so that was part of it. and. It was interesting though, because when I started writing, I was writing about all the hard stuff at first. And actually started writing in 2018. It was a long time ago because a gal at my Bible study had said, you know, we've heard all your stories. You should write a book. And so I was like, okay, well that's what I'll should do. I wrote down the hard parts and then I hit a brick wall because it was like, well now what I'm not a therapist. I can't tell people what to do with their kids. I'm in Arizona and it's. different in every state. So I can't tell people how to get services. And I just hit a wall where I didn't think I was providing any kind of value with, so I just put it away and it was really, this many years later after I was able to see Brady grow and develop and see how he was doing all these amazing things and he was using his gifts and talents. I saw where God showed up and I was able to kind of. Blend those together into a story that says, look, yeah, this is really hard. But, you know, here's a little ray of hope of where you can find your purpose and your identity in this new life path that you're walking down that you didn't expect. And then here's this section that's just all about Brady and all the awesome things that he's done that have surprised us and the people he's touched and, and that sort of thing. that's where the book. Kind of came together because then it was like sitting across the table from that mom at coffee, but hopefully reading, you know, reaching a wider audience of moms that just need to know they're not alone and to feel all the hard times along with somebody else. And then to see that there's hope in the, in the journey and in the path to, so.

Kara: 48:35

that's great. Yeah, I think it's always interesting to kind of see the your story interwoven with what you never would have expected, but how it all, works so beautifully together. All right. Well, our time is coming to an end. And so two closing questions first is how can listeners find you and find your book? And second, is there any last, comment or thing you'd like to share before

Kari: 48:59

Yeah, so the easiest way is kindfamilies. com and you can find my book there it is in hardback and it's actually an e book on Amazon as well The kind families podcast on Apple and Spotify and then you know My encouraging thing is don't ever under Estimate what your kid can do and, support them in the things that they have challenges with, but also nourish their gifts and talents and passions. And, they're going to surprise you. So,

Kara: 49:32

Awesome. Well, thank you. So, much for sharing your story and a little bit of Brady's story, a little bit of John's story, and, we'll see you all on the next episode. All right.