Moms Talk Autism (with me)

This episode is full of heart, insight, and real talk about the ever-evolving journey of special needs motherhood. I sat down with Brittney Crabtree and Tash Dillman from the Moms Talk Autism podcast to chat about grief, acceptance, and finding your people.

Tash, a Portland-based mom of two, loves fitness, nature, volunteering, and tending to her MANY houseplants. Brittney, a Northern California mom of four, runs a home bakery and balances the unique needs of her two autistic children.

We talk about the cycle of special needs parenting, the fine line between helping and "fixing" our kids, and why diversifying your friendship portfolio is a game-changer. If you're feeling exhausted or alone, this one’s for you.

Episode Resources: 

Marco Polo App

TSNM Pod Episodes on Grief: 

Episode 220: Let's Talk About Loneliness

Episode 221: The Antidote for Loneliness

Episode 223: The Trojan Horse of Happiness

Episode 225: Together Is the Only Way

Get to know Moms Talk Autism:

Podcast on Spotify

Podcast on Apple Music

Website

Instagram

Brittany Crabtree Instagram

Tash Dillman Instagram

Contact: hello@momstalkautism.com

Connect with Kara, host of The Special Needs Mom Podcast:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thespecialneedsmompodcast/
Website: https://www.kararyska.com/

Join the Community:
Pathway to Peace Coaching Community is currently open for enrollment. Instantly get access to authentic community and weekly coaching! Give yourself the gift of growing alongside moms who deeply understand you and will be with you in your joys and sorrows. --------> Learn More HERE

Transcript

Speaker 2: 0:05

Hi, I'm Kara, life coach, wife and mom to four incredible and unique children. It wasn't all that long ago that my son received a diagnosis that had my world come crashing down. I lacked the ability to see past the circumstances, which felt impossible and the dreams I once had for my life and family felt destroyed. Fast forward past many years of surviving and not at all thriving, and you'll see a mom who trusts that she can handle anything that comes her way and has access to the power and confidence that once felt so lacking. I created the Special Needs Mom podcast to create connection and community with moms who find themselves feeling trapped and with no one who really understands. My intention is to spark the flair of possibility. In your own life and rekindle your ability to dream. This isn't a podcast about your special needs child. This is a podcast about you. If you are a mom who feels anxious, alone, or stuck, then you are in the right place. Welcome.

Speaker: 1:14

Hello and welcome to the special needs mom podcast. So glad you're here today. We have an interview style episode and I just finished recording it with these ladies and you know, we all had places that we had to go, but I think had we not, we could have talked probably for three hours. But don't you worry. We only talked for about an hour and it was a rich conversation. And some of the things you're going to find in this episode are talking about what I describe as the evolution of a special needs mom. Or perhaps better said, the evolution cycle of a special needs mom. Cycle referencing that it's not like a one and done, it's going back and forth and it's ongoing. It's more of a circle than a line. So let me tell you a little bit about our guests. So we have two of the four members who make up the Moms Talk Autism podcast. Today with us, we have Tash Dillman and Brittany Crabtree, and I'm thrilled that one of my friends. Introduced me to Brittany and brought me into the circle with these ladies because they are just, I think, a model of what happens when we seek out community and we meet our own needs and how beautiful is it that they, as a result of having this rich resource, which is community. They created something so that others could join in as well. So I love it so much. I'm such a fan. Some other things that you're going to get to hear in this episode is the concept of diversifying your friendship portfolio. I just love that line so much, and so listen for that. It comes kind of at the end. Okay. Other themes include grief. And if you're like, Kara, more grief. Yes. Grief is a good topic. That's what I want to say. And if you're new here and you're like, what grief? My child's still living. What are you talking about? Well, you're going to get to listen to the wholeness of the grief experience and it's not limited to life and death. Okay. I think that gives us a good launching off point. And with that, let's bring on our guests.

Kara: 3:26

Hello I'm here with not one, but two guests today, Brittney and Tash. And as we always do, we're gonna start with your becoming stories and just give a little frame of reference for, who you are coming to us today. And so, why don't we start with you, Brittney. where do you find yourself in life? Your little picture of your family and how do you spend your time? Some of that stuff.

Brittney: 3:49

Oh my goodness. Okay, well this is gonna take over all of your air time. hi, I am Brittney. I am in my 40 somethings. We'll just leave it there. I have four kids, and, I've been married to my husband for this will be our, I. 23rd year Marital Bliss, I guess. we met in college when we were babies and we just, we decided, hey, why not? Let's get married. Let's, let's figure this all out together. And that's

Kara: 4:15

I looked back and I was like, huh, 23, huh? Mar married. Okay. We did that. Wow. And we're here now. Okay.

Brittney: 4:22

And we're here now. So, Yeah. so, we have, four kids, like I said. I live in northern California in the Sacramento area. my oldest will be 21 this year, so that's a whole thing. I have three boys and a girl and he is going to community college. He locally living at home and working, and he helps out with his younger siblings. we have an 18-year-old son who is non-speaking autistic. And has a lot of aggression violence, you know, he needs to be watched. 24 7 basically. and his older brother helps take care of him at times. he's in his respite worker, you know, list and, and is very helpful that way. And then we have a 17-year-old son, who followed very quickly after that second kid. And he is thriving in high school right now in cross country and track. And I never see him because junior year you never see your kid

Kara: 5:15

I relate. Yes. I have a junior in high school.

Brittney: 5:17

You never, they are never home. Yeah. I see'em in passing sometimes. I'm like, hi, how you doing? And that's it. So, yeah. And then we had a little gap and then our youngest is my daughter Ruby, and she is 10. And also diagnosed with autism. I. and, she goes to a general ed class, but is also in a special needs class on campus. She kind of waffles back and forth between the two. That's kind of how we do it in California, where I live. And then, Austin, my, my 18-year-old, he goes to a special needs non-public school that is specifically for kids who have more challenges, more behaviors and that kind of thing. So that's kind of my family. I'm very busy. I, I have a business that I run out of my home, that feeds my creative side and helps support my family. and then I do a podcast with the best co-hosts in the world, Tash and Shannon and Jean, and we're the Moms Talk Autism podcast. And, we love it. So that fills my day. I, I'm also very involved in my church and my community and friends and like, yeah, it's a lot, it's a lot for this introvert. I am, I am introverted, but my behavior does not display that to anyone.

Kara: 6:24

That's so funny you say that.'cause I'm sorting through like, how do I have as much connection as I want, but like I would call, dunno if you've heard the term of an ambry avert where you're kind of like, ride the two sides. Right? And or I've also heard it called a repressed extrovert, which I don't know, I guess the word repressed. I was like, I don't know if, I don't know if I wanna really own that. really I mean, so we're gonna go with ambry avert.

Brittney: 6:47

I like that one.

Tash: 6:47

That sounds

Kara: 6:48

Yeah. so yeah, I I relate to that in terms of like involved in so many things and recognize, oh, I have a little bit of a capacity, cap here. So.

Tash: 6:58

like that's as we get older too, right? Where it's

Kara: 6:59

eh? Yes.

Tash: 7:01

Hmm, I know, I know my boundaries.

Kara: 7:03

Yes, That's true. Right? Okay. Well, Tash, let's hear the same from you.

Tash: 7:08

Hi everybody. thanks for having us on again. so I am. I'm the crazy one in the, in the group of four of of us podcast ladies.

Brittney: 7:18

on the

Tash: 7:18

gotta, it. It does, it does. I'm, but I've got, I'm spicy. I'm the spicy one. I would say I am a mom first and foremost. and, I have three, three beautiful babies. One is, residing in heaven, waiting for the rest of us to get there. My son Jack, who is 11, he is my neuros spicy kiddo. and then my daughter, Sloan, who is nine, going on 19. she's also spicy, just not neuros spicy. and then I am, the wife to a fire captain for, the, I shouldn't say local, but the next city over, fire department. so crazy first responder wife. Life. I dunno if anybody out there knows about that, but if you do, you're just like, yeah girl, I hear you. I feel it. I know all the things. we have a very set, not set schedule, if that makes sense. yeah. And I, retired from my 15 year career when, I think. Probably shortly before my son Jack was diagnosed, and, that he was diagnosed at the age of four. And yeah, I just, dabbled in a little bit of everything I got into, like, you know, MLM selling skincare and, hustled that for a while and then kind of was like, you know what, no, I'm gonna, I'm gonna be at home. I'm gonna be at home and I'm gonna do this. And then a few years later I ran into these. The crazy, crazy gals of moms talk autism. And we you

Brittney: 8:45

else, but she didn't.

Tash: 8:46

to say something else? I did. I did. I, I ran into these randos on social media and we started a podcast together.

Brittney: 8:54

Like you

Tash: 8:54

Um, Like that's the normal thing to do, right? no, but we are super active family. we. Fitness is like our, a top priority in our household and we're also like super outdoorsy people and just like kind of on the go all the time. And I am a super extrovert,

Kara: 9:11

I doesn't surprise me. Looks like you. Yes. And I don't think you mentioned Where you

Tash: 9:17

live. here?

Kara: 9:17

You're in technically Washington, right?

Tash: 9:20

in, Washington State. Yes. But I always say Portland, Oregon because I am. People recognize that better. I am. I'm literally across the river from Portland, Oregon. I'm in a little cute little town called Cute Camus, Camus Washington. We are an old mill town. Yeah. Close to the city of Vancouver. that's it. Yeah. And then I, am highly involved in my church as well. I, I go to a pretty, for this area, a mega, you know, what's known as, I guess a mega, mega church. and just, you know, non-denominational Christian and I got heavily involved. With our kids' ministry, and then particularly in, kind of helping to advance our special needs ministry within our kids' ministry. So yeah.

Kara: 10:01

I am hoping we have time to talk about that, because I wanna hear more about that. of course for the, the gain of everybody listening. But also for my, my personal gain.

Tash: 10:10

Yes. And I'm, and I'm a new believer, like, I'm like, I'm baby Christian over here. Like, hi, it's me 2019. You know,

Brittney: 10:17

It's like, it's like the Spice Girls. Your baby Christian

Tash: 10:20

baby C.

Kara: 10:21

baby.

Brittney: 10:21

baby Spice. Got it.

Kara: 10:24

Welcome baby Spice.

Tash: 10:25

So

Kara: 10:26

Alright, before we go and I wanna hear more about the podcast, how that came to be, I wanna actually stay with your becoming stories for a minute. So everybody has a unique becoming story and my guess, because. their autism diagnosis is, they didn't happen in a single day. Like my experience is that I became a special needs mom. In one conversation, it was a black and white day and night Switch from off to on. And I didn't necessarily know exactly what was happening at the time, but there was a very clear cut day, not the case. My guess is for each of you. And so

Tash: 11:02

so

Kara: 11:02

if you would just kind of give a little picture of what that was like for you personally, going from what you thought your life would probably be to. It evolving to not at all being that way. And of course Tash you mentioned. and of course, you know, as I prepared for the podcast, I learned that You lost your son, right? You lost your son, right at birth Jack's twin, right at birth, right. So that's clearly part of your becoming story in or your story period. And I'm sure has, Colored, in some ways everything after that. So I'll let you guys decide who wants to start, but kind of what, what do you think when you look back and kind of see those becoming days?

Brittney: 11:47

Go for it, Tash.

Tash: 11:48

Okay. Yeah. so, much like you said, our first pregnancy was with twin boys. And, everything was perfect. We love that word perfect. And we love the word normal. We love All right. Balanced, we love all those words. everything, was measuring out. For identical twins, everything was measuring out perfectly. and until it wasn't, and it was a very, dramatic like going into preterm labor and being like, okay, buckle up. We're doing this, you know, and, and stopping it and, and being able to get through a week. And then it was like, Nope, now it's, it's happening. We are going with no idea that anything was wrong. and so when I gave birth to the boys, naturally, we. Quickly found out when Jamison came first, our son that we lost that twin to twin transfusion had happened. It's something that only happens with, identical twins. anyways, and, and so, yeah, it was like from that moment, and I, and I say this, but like the more therapy that I've done. the trauma really happened when I started, when I found out I was pregnant with twins. Right. Because then you're immediately threshed into like this. Okay. And, and what kind of twins are they? Oh, they're, you know, they're identical twins and so it's a high rate for twin to twin, you know, so it was like the trauma has started happening immediately. and.

Brittney: 13:04

Well, and you are a twin.

Tash: 13:06

And then I myself am a twin. I'm a fraternal twin. And so just having that, that understanding and that connection and, and then I have other siblings as well. I have three older sisters, and so it's a very different dynamic. twins have a very different, we are weirdos in the best way possible, right? Like we, it is the best. Brittney knows because she's been in

Brittney: 13:26

I've been in the orbit of the twins, her and her twin, and it's like you just kind of sit there and you just, I, I, I just wanna watch them. It's like a science experiment and just like how they move around each other, how they finish each other. It's, it was absolutely fascinating to me. And I love Nicole. She's wonderful. So.

Tash: 13:43

yeah, so it just, it, it, you know, just to kind of fast forward when Jamison came out and, and he wasn't breathing, and then, and then we got Jack out and, and we knew for sure that it had happened. And, and right there from that moment it was like this complete fight or flight, right? It, it was. and, and then not only that, but I got very sick because I had what they called post preeclampsia. So I was separated from my children, who are fighting for their lives. And then my hus, my poor husband who is trying to fight for all of us on different floors of the hospital. and, you know, yes, we had family there and, and all of that. But, yeah, it, it quickly, it quickly changed just. Everything, my, my thought process on life, my, right there in that moment pleading for God, like, why would you do this to me? And I wasn't even a believer. but he was the first person I prayed to or blamed or all of the emotions that I went through with him. Yeah. And, and, Jamison lived for 19 hours. It was a rough 19 hours. and then we, we decided to go ahead and take him off life support because, you know, the best professional advice was that he was not going to make it. And I, and we wanted to hold him. We wanted to hold him and breathe him in, you know, until he passed. So, yeah, so that moment was the pivotal moment that changed everything for me. You know, and then let's fast forward through Jack's, young, childhood, you know, his, his toddlerhood and all of that. And it, and it was very apparent to me at the age of one, you know, that there was some differences and I'd never even dealt with. you know, I'd never even, I don't even know that I'd ever met an autistic person that I knew of. but There was evidence that something was different, you know, and, and, you know, you have the normal things like all the people saying like, oh, they'll catch up, blah, blah, blah. You know, they're, oh, they'll be fine. Oh, it's just a boy. Oh, you know, all the, all the things people say in good, you know, meaning well. but yeah, when it came to that, diagnosis, process or this, the beginning of it where our pediatrician said, yes, let's move forward in getting tested. it was not anything that felt out of the blue or out of the norm, or I was almost like, okay, yep. Validation where, you know, I mean, not to talk about my husband, but it was very different for my husband. My husband was like, you thrown into this. Life changing moment, you know, of like what you know. and for me I was just like, okay, yeah, that it's totally, yep. And then It made sense to me. And then when he got his formal diagnosis, it was like, yeah, cool. Okay, yep. We're doing this, we're already doing things for it. So, yeah. So it, I think, I think Jamison's loss was my, oh my gosh, life is not at all. What I thought it was going to be, you know, life is not, not even what I thought was gonna be this perfect, you know, pregnancy and two, you know, two at once and done like flipped upside down on its head and just rocked me to my core.

Kara: 16:45

yeah. Now as you share that, I'm like, wow, I I could see how I often think when we're in really hard times of our capacity to do really hard things. And I would say I think that's kind of like, all of us I think would agree that losing a child is the thing that mothers could say. That's just the worst thing we could imagine.

Brittney: 17:05

Yeah.

Kara: 17:06

And so you had gone through this highest level we can think of, of loss, of pain, of grief, of not what you thought it was gonna be. So it seems like it almost skewed your perspective in a positive way so that you're like,

Tash: 17:20

like, I'm gonna like cry and laugh all the same time right now,

Kara: 17:24

this is great.

Tash: 17:25

this with, I've talked about this with the girls so much is like my journey into the diagnosis of autism and all that was NN. Not even, even remotely like the rest of the girls,

Brittney: 17:37

It wasn't your worst day you've

Tash: 17:39

you've ever had. No, Not even, not even close. You know, and so it, I do speak to a very different, level and Brittney's got two. So Brittney, you go, you tell your story because Brittney has the two and, and she was like, you know, yeah,

Brittney: 17:53

Everything's opposites. But the same. At the same. It's, yeah, it's like I, I. I. compare it to a tennis match where you're sitting like mid court right at the net and you're, you're swiveling your head back and forth. Left, right, left right. Like there's a kid on each side and it's just, you know, you get, you, you start getting vertigo after a while'cause you're so dizzy, flipping back and forth between these two people. And then, oh, and then there's two other

Tash: 18:18

kids too

Kara: 18:19

Yeah, it's doubles. This doubles tennis you got.

Brittney: 18:21

in some way. They're like feral, but no. but yeah, so, for me it was, it was my son's diagnosis. We were traveling along. We had a beautiful 2-year-old

Tash: 18:33

son

Brittney: 18:34

and got pregnant. It's another boy so excited, baby. He's so chubby and cute and we're doing great. And there's Thomas the train and cars everywhere and it's fabulous. And, but you know, he's not speaking. He's not making eye contact. He seems to be kind of off in his own little world, sometimes very different from his brother. I'm so grateful I had that comparison. you know, that I was able to really tell, and I, and I have a background in, you know, child psychology and, I kind of knew I had, some thoughts and, a lot of reassurances, oh, he's just a late bloomer, da, dah, dah, dah, dah. All the things. And it's lovely. And it was very well-meaning, and they're right. It's quite possible. Got to the pediatrician's office. because I am a busy mom and I can handle stuff. I took the kids by myself and went down there and, yeah. I mean, I don't have time to wait for people. We're just gonna get it

Tash: 19:27

it done, Wait for meaning her husband?

Brittney: 19:30

yeah, sorry. Let's go. You know, I, I, I got this. It's no problem. And, got there and, Austin was stimming quite, heavily. He still does and has his whole life. And the pediatrician walked in and she looked at me and I looked at my kid and I'm like, I don't think this is normal. And she was like, no. So, we got, you know, referral to, you know, she, she said the word autism. I jumped back like there was a fire in the room. I was like, what? I knew what it was in theory, in my textbooks in college, but I did not have any, you know, personal experience with it. And, went to my car, called my mother as you do, and, sobbed my eyes out and, freaked her out pretty bad, I think, because I am not a crier and I always have it together and I am the. Strong, you know, pillar. And, I lost it. She was just like, whoa. So, we were very, very blessed. we were able to go see the neurologist fairly soon after that original, talk with the pediatrician. Confirmed the diagnosis once again. Don't know what I was thinking. Went to the appointment by myself with my children. looking back, don't do that. Take, take somebody with you.

Tash: 20:44

and we, we, we

Kara: 20:45

It shows how I'm gonna interrupt. It shows how new you were, right? It shows how, like You didn't, what, why would you, right? Like you didn't have the experience that of course you have now. So I love that. I love that it, it shows where we started. So continue on one.

Brittney: 21:00

yes, yes. So, came home and, and you know, at that point I was pretty certain we were gonna get this confirmation, but the way it was done, the diag, you know, it was official diagnosis. Yes, he has autism. Here's a paper with a couple of numbers for people to call. Have a nice day. Okay? You know, what do I do? I am a woman of action. I'm gonna get it done. I'm gonna do the research. I am going to solve this problem. We are gonna get back on track. I don't care how long it takes. I love this kid. We're gonna make it happen. So tell me

Tash: 21:28

me what to do. Yeah.

Brittney: 21:30

you pretty much have to make it up on your own. At least that's how it was 18 years ago, you know, well, 16 years ago, he was two years old. So, we, went through what I would call our first round of grieving. I. and it is a grief, it is not to compare to the actual loss and death of a child as Tash has experienced, but there is a lot of overlap and there's a lot of similarity. And it makes it so you can, empathize on a certain level because you are grieving the loss of that life. and that is what started, and my grief, was different than my husband's, but we were very fortunate and blessed because of our faith-based life and our connection with each other and getting married when we were children

Tash: 22:14

ourselves,

Brittney: 22:15

that we, had a few years under our belt at that point, and we rallied together.

Tash: 22:20

Mm-hmm.

Brittney: 22:20

And that was, the key that was lifesaving for me and for him, I would say I, I'll speak for him in that much. And, At that point I had actually three children because we had our Oopsie baby. And so I don't know if, my third would have made it into this world, if we had received that diagnosis, you know, later or, you know, if I had not already had my child. So that's a huge part for me too, was that God had a different plan, for my family and I got that my third boy in before that diagnosis. And that was key.

Kara: 22:53

I wanna jump in here to say the same for us, right? So I was actually 10 weeks pregnant with my third son when Levi got diagnosed, and he was two as well. So look at that, look at our stories colliding, or

Tash: 23:04

for him. Parallel. Yeah,

Brittney: 23:06

Yeah, Par parallel. Yeah. Yeah, he is. He is my strong

Tash: 23:10

silent

Brittney: 23:11

man child. That one. And

Tash: 23:14

he's just, is yours too?

Brittney: 23:16

Yeah, he's

Kara: 23:17

Yeah, he was born at 10 pounds, five ounces like he was born, like ready ready to go. He is the most responsible child you'll ever meet, and he always has been like, I do think it's a response from. The sibling experience he's having, of course. And also like he's just

Tash: 23:37

me. Like, I'm like now sitting on this side of faith. I'm like, God knows

Brittney: 23:42

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Tash: 23:44

Yeah.

Brittney: 23:45

Yeah. And it took us a long time. we were like, you know what, this is crazy, this crazy life. We went into 40 hours a week of a, b, a therapy and OT and speech and inter early interventions, and we just hit it as hard as I could because I. I'm that mom and I'm gonna do that. We're gonna do everything I can to help this kid and we're gonna make it happen. And we did. And we waited about six years and I had to come to a place. It took me that long. I. We always wanted to have three or four, like four-ish kids. We kind of, that was kind of always the plan. but I needed to come to a place where if this fourth child came into our lives and they were diagnosed, which is a very high, high likely that will happen. If you have one child with autism, you will most likely have another or some other kind of neurodivergence. there's a strong genetic component to it. I needed to be okay with that. I needed to be willing. To take that on and accept that things could repeat themselves and that my fourth child could be diagnosed in some way. And it needed to be at this point, you know, Austin was, we knew he was quite severe. he was still non-speaking. This was the long haul. This was, we are gonna be 24 7 supervision care, heavy, heavy parenting, and heavy. Involvement in his life for the duration of, of my life. And so I needed to be prepared that that might happen again. And it took me a long time to get there. And, I, a lot of, a lot of prayer, a lot of talks with husband, you know, everyone needed to be on board. This wasn't just my decision and we agreed to try and so we did. And our sweet daughter came into the world. Everything's wonderful. Perfect. She's growing and changing

Tash: 25:22

and.

Brittney: 25:23

Speech is delayed again, and things are you know, they're different than Austin, but they're. Something's there. And because once again, I had the experience, I was already in this world. We already had the autism label. We were rolling with it. It's like, let's just include her in the therapy. Let's go. So we, we got her in as fast as we could. I got a lot of pushback with her because she's a little bit more advanced and was speaking and communicating in a different way that people didn't wanna diagnose her right away. And because I was already in that advocacy space, I learned pretty quick, no, no, we're going to do this. You're gonna test her. I know

Tash: 25:58

know what I I know what I know

Brittney: 26:00

And we're gonna do this. And sure enough, she was diagnosed. So I, if she had been my first, or, you know, I hadn't had that other child with special needs. I may have not, gotten her diagnosed so quickly. but I was able to do that because of my experience. And, and she's, she's thriving. She's doing really, really well right now, overall. but puberty is peeking its head around the corner.

Tash: 26:21

And,

Brittney: 26:22

I cannot tell you the number of times I've talked to these girls, Tash and our other co-hosts about how freaked out I am about all of that because that's new territory

Tash: 26:30

for us

Brittney: 26:31

with the girl and just special needs on top of it. Yeah. Like, I don't know what I'm doing, so I'm back to, I have a lot of experience. I've been a mom for a very, very long time. I've been a mom longer than I haven't been a mom at this point in my life, which is kind of crazy to say, but I also have absolutely no idea what I'm doing, so

Kara: 26:49

For you, is it, is it the combination of Neurodivergence and Girl or is it one? more the, it's the combination of

Brittney: 26:56

It is the combination because things cannot be explained. She cannot comprehend, she cannot express or even, receive that information in a typical way. So I know how my mom helped me with my first period and with. Menstruation and cramping, like all of that kind of stuff that isn't going to necessarily work for my daughter. So I have to find a different way, and this is the story of our lives, right? You know, what you've experienced with your own family in your own life, whether you think your parents did a good job or they didn't, you're going to either do the same thing or you're gonna do the exact opposite, right? Depending on, on, on your experience. but now, but there's this third path and it is. I had a great childhood and I had, a great experience with my mom, you know, growing up and, and changing into a woman, I can use almost none of that experience. I have to make it up now and I have to come up with my own way of doing it. And there is no guidebook. not really. There's things out there now. There's so many more resources than there used to be, and that's wonderful. And I'm definitely using those things. But at the same time, my child is very unique and they have their own situations. They have their own way of communicating. And If you've met one person with autism, you've met one person with autism, and that's it. So we are literally making it up as we go, and I have to do that for my other son as well. And, it's, it's that tennis match. It's like back and forth, back and forth, okay, who needs what? Okay, you need this thing, you need this thing. They're the exact opposite thing. You both need something completely different. Great, let's try to do this at the same time. You know, it's, it's that kind of

Tash: 28:24

life. So,

Kara: 28:25

I can feel that, I can feel that along with you, deeply.

Brittney: 28:28

Am I stressing you out yet?

Kara: 28:30

no, not stress. I feel it though. I feel it in a Good. way. Right? Like

Tash: 28:34

are just a little sweaty,

Kara: 28:37

my heart rate's up just a touch. No,

Tash: 28:39

a touch.

Kara: 28:40

Brittney, you said something that stuck out to me, and I think a lot of listeners are going to relate to it. You said, I'm a woman of action. We're gonna get this kid back on track. So reading into that a little bit, I think it probably, and you can confirm, I. Speaks to what we might call a before attitude of that there is a right track to be on and you're not on it. And so we will do everything we can to get you back on there. And I also wanted to pair this with something I saw on y'all's website and it was, talking about cure culture. And you have a clear statement that. As a, as a group, as a platform, you reject cure culture. So, and I think these two are related. So I first wanted to just get your take on what is cure culture and kind of how did you, land on really being clear about, rejecting it.

Tash: 29:38

it. Mm.

Brittney: 29:38

Yeah. Cure culture. I mean, I don't have the, the official like. Definition or anything. This is just our version of what it is. it's the attitude. It's, the, the mindset that autism is a disease and it's something that can be cured or fixed. and Like everything in life, there's nuance and it depends on what words you're using. there are certain aspects of autism that we can definitely help with. it's usually the symptoms of right. we can change the environment around someone to help them be able to. Be happier or, or cope or, or communicate better or whatever that is that you're working on, and be able to regulate themselves sensory wise in some way. But that isn't curing the autism. We're not trying to intrinsically change our children. I'm not trying to change the molecular, you know, you know, makeup of my child's brain or their, you know, anything like that. I am just trying to help my child be happy and being able to contribute. In some way in the world, and be a part of society and be a part of my family, and really, truly just be happy that that is the number one thing and that requires extra care and extra help. And sometimes that requires medication or therapy or a different school system or whatever that thing is. But we are not trying to cure our children. I don't see him as broken. I see him as needing different

Tash: 31:03

care. Mm-hmm.

Brittney: 31:05

Did I sum that up?

Tash: 31:05

up Okay. Todd? Yes. No, that was perfect. No. that was great. Yes.

Kara: 31:09

So would you say that in your kind of before journey that you may not have seen it the same

Tash: 31:15

way?

Brittney: 31:16

Yeah. I, I think that's a journey and that's part of that grief cycle is coming to that place. and when I say grief cycle, I didn't go, th none of us have gone through the grief cycle just once. And I'm like, oh, great. That was fun done. Now, it is something you will visit over and over and over again. I am going through another cycle of it right now, with the. My child turning 18 and the struggle, the, the way that the legal system works when your child is officially an adult but can't take care of themself in any kind of meaningful way, it's a ride, I'll tell you that. So, yeah, it's, about, I don't know, Tash, what am I trying to

Tash: 31:49

to say? Yeah, I think, I think when you're first, kind of thrown into this journey, it's kind of one of those things where if you have no understanding, you know, you're immediately just told by doctors, this is what we need to do. You need to do this, you need to do this, you need to do this. And it's like, okay. That mindset of like, yeah, I'm gonna do these things to help my kiddo, you know, but that can often lead down the path of. Am I doing this to help? Like much like Brittney said, am I doing this to help my kiddo thrive, or am I doing this because I have not actually accepted who my child is, who God made them to be, and now I'm trying to. Fix. Sorry, I'm using my hand. I don't, people can't see it. You know, people try, am I trying to fix my child? Am I trying to change that they have this certain stem that that helps them to regulate themselves? Am I trying to make them speak when maybe it's, it is not in, you know, their journey to ever have, you know. Language. so I, a very fine line that we ride in the beginning. and again, like much like Brittney said, it's that grief cycle of like, okay, how quickly am I going through this part of it? Where I'm, where the acceptance part where, where I'm accepting my child. Wholly for who they are. and now it's not a, I'm doing these things to change them. It's like I'm doing these things to, if it's something that can help them acquire skills, maybe not perfect skills, maybe not being, you know, completely speaking or, you know, not having, behaviors that's what I'm going to do. You know, I'm not changing them. helping

Brittney: 33:23

It's, it's a place that we all try to strive to get, and, it's gonna be different for everyone. And there's levels to it, right? because our children are growing and changing and, Despite whatever, you know, disability or setbacks you might have for them, or even in your own life, there's always gonna be change. There's always gonna be some kind of growth or change. and you have to, yeah. Once again, accept, accept, you know, get to that place where you can then move forward and, and continue to, help them thrive. I like that word about helping them thrive. Tsh. But yeah, it didn't start out that way. It was, it was more of a. this isn't working. He's behind. We're gonna catch up. You know, that's a great place to start and sometimes that is appropriate. you know, but it isn't always, and I guess that's another level that when I kind of figured it out, like, oh, okay, this isn't a, do all these extra things and put in this extra time and we're gonna do all this extra therapy and then we're going to catch up. Oh, no, no, that's not happening in this particular situation. And when you reach that place. it's not a fun place to be. No one wants to be there. It's not a club you wanna join, but, there is a level of freedom and a level

Tash: 34:33

Oh, come on.

Brittney: 34:35

Of letting go that comes when you reach that place that allows you to change your perspective, view your child differently, view your life differently. And it's not something I fixate on anymore. It's not important to me that we catch up or that we're different. may I say that we embrace it now, it's we are who we are. And if you can't hang with that. Have a lovely day, you know? because there's plenty of people out there who can. And, those are the people I'm gonna surround myself with and, and there's a lot of, of freedom and joy and, release that can come from that

Tash: 35:10

once you reach that place. Yeah.

Kara: 35:11

Well, yeah, I think I, what I would add is peace. Like I think it, allows you to have peace about where you are because no longer are you in this tension of like not being able to get where you think you have to be. And precisely. I wish you guys could see my little post at wall of where I kind of plan my podcast episodes.'cause there's literally one that says. The fine line between fixing and helping your child.'cause I think you've hit on this thing that is so critical to understand the difference, and you guys explained it so beautifully, and especially I think it's so important, so important to have compassion on all of our. Steps along the way that, you know, Brittney, we more so focused on you saying this, that like you didn't understand this before. You were desperately trying to get back to like this place that ultimately didn't exist, but you

Brittney: 36:06

Oh my plan. I wanted to get back to my plan because I had a plan and we're gonna do what I wanna do. Yeah.

Kara: 36:12

precisely. And so. I can see this in my own journey with Levi as well, where even just actually last year, I realized, I'm like, oh my gosh. Like actually even his school experience is the people kind of, that have influence in his life. It's like we're forcing him to be somebody that he may not be, and it's like, what if we like. What if we relieve him, of that pressure and of that like trying to fit him into this, this box that like, he doesn't have to fit in. Like, so what if he doesn't fit in it? Like I, it was really interesting'cause I think there's, as I'm sure all of you, you know, we look at all the different people that have influence in our children's lives with school teams and and, and such that. It's so important, I think, as the mother to really, to have this shift and this experience of being really able to accept, which you've, this is a huge theme here, right? Accept and grief. And I do wanna mention for listeners that might be new, is that I did a whole series on grief last year. Yeah. So at the end of last year, I did, it was quite a few episodes and I thinBrittneyany, you mentioned this, that yes, there's a difference in grieving somebody who has died than there is somebody who's still alive and it's all

Tash: 37:27

all breathing. Mm-hmm.

Kara: 37:29

and I think there's so much more. I won't repeat the episodes, but I will link them in the show notes. Okay. So we've talked about

Tash: 37:36

this,

Kara: 37:37

Stage, so I wanna bring us to. What I call the evolution of a special needs mom. And it really is. it's not a step-by-step guide. a essentially identifying certain places we find ourselves

Tash: 37:53

mm-hmm.

Kara: 37:54

really for, for, the intention of supporting ourselves. So it's not a line, it's definitely a circle and all the things in

Tash: 38:00

between.

Kara: 38:01

so I'll go over the stages and I wanna talk about them a little bit, especially because it came up with this, Well, I'll explain the, the stages. So the first stage is stun survival. This is when, you know, sometimes this is, years, sometimes this is days. Sometimes you know, it's everything in between. It's when you're literally just doing what it takes to eat, sleep, keep everybody safe. It's when you're learning all the new language, all the new. Appointments, all the new environments that you, find yourself in. And then we normalize, we kind of get, you know, you got your new normal and move into the stage that I call stabilized, yet self-sacrificing. And this, I don't think we could sum it up better than you did, Brittney, where it's like, I'm a woman of action, I'm gonna get it done. And typically what I see, and you guys can let me know if you identify with this, is that. There's typically a overemphasis on helping our children with an underemphasis of doing anything to support ourselves. It's like we're putting all of our chips in the basket of we must, and this is the difference here in this stage, is we have to help our child because if we don't help our child, then ultimately. If we really look and are honest, then we don't think we're gonna be okay. And this is where we get that fixing energy from versus helping our child. So we stay in that stage for a little while and ultimately get tired and we get to the next stage, which I call alone and afraid because we've gotten tired, what we've done hasn't worked, and we don't know what else to do. we've usually, isolated, Not necessarily intentionally, but it's kind of default that happens to many of us and for a lot of good reasons.'cause when we have children with behaviors, it's hard to be out there in the world and all the things. And then there's a little stage that I call the rebellion and it's really that rebellion stage is looking and saying, I can't do it this way. anymore. I am not willing to. To do this and not to do this for my child, but to do this for myself. I'm not willing to put myself in last place all the time. I have to do something different.'cause I think at this point it's like when we've exhausted everything,

Brittney: 40:25

Tash. I literally said this last night. literally said, I can't do this anymore. I have to do something different. Like you just basically repeated what I said to Tash last

Tash: 40:34

last night.

Kara: 40:35

there you go. Yes. And we find ourselves. So again, emphasizing this is not like, oh, we get to this place one time and everything's all better. No, this is a, this is a cycle. very cyclical and not clean. Even though I'm like laying it out, like it's clean. and then we get to what I call calm the chaos. and that's when we start doing the work to give ourselves the tools. We work on acceptance. we Really own, okay, this is grief, and we do the things that support ourselves in grief, and on from there. So that's a little bit of the cycle. And, and then it goes on from there in terms of like the last stage in the cycle is what I call power, peace, and possibility. And it's when we really can fully accept this is what we have and recognize it is beautiful. There's possibility, there's peace. And again, we don't get to go live there. Right? That's not how it works when you're raising people and it would be so nice, but it is, I think it's an important part to put in because that's when we get to put. I'm sure you've heard the concept of, you know, giving purpose to your pain, and so when we get to live that experience, I think it, it just feels good. Even though, of course, clearly we we would never say this is an easy, an easy experience. So that's a little bit of the evolution that I've mapped out After hearing story after story and hearing moms come to me and saying, typically they're gonna be in between, stabilize and self-sacrificing and alone and afraid more than alone. And afraid.'cause it's like right before you're ready to do something different. So first off, I think. You can talk about any stage, but what stage, I guess, sticks out the most to you? Just even as I roll them out.

Brittney: 42:16

Well, I already said I guess I'm being a rebellious person right now because I'm right in that little rebellious pot where I'm like, I'm at a crossroads here with my child who's 18 and, and we have a lot of different choices and a lot of different things that we need to look at. we're looking at med changes, we're looking at school placement. We're looking at. A conservatorship. We have all sorts of different things that are really heavy and require a lot of research and time and effort on my part as a caregiver. And then there's always grief laced around in that. And then there's just the everyday behaviors and taking and caring for this person on top of. These extra layers of government and schools and all these things on top of it. I'm, I'm at a place now and I literally just talked to the girls yesterday. We video, app each other all the time, and that's my support system and I need it every day. And I just said, I can't keep doing it this way. I have to find a different way to do this. And, I am self-aware enough, I've figured that out. I've done this cycle enough times that we have reached this point and okay, so that means. Other parts of my life are probably going to shift too. Everything is affected because it does take over. It, te does take so much time and effort and, mind power to change something significant like a school placement or, you know, some of our heavier medications, that, that Austin takes right now. So, yeah, it's definitely, that's where I'm at and that's kind of where I'm focused on because it's, it's very relevant to my

Tash: 43:39

my wife. Mm.

Kara: 43:41

Yeah, well consider that the rebellion and I, I think you might agree, is a good place being at the rebellion. Okay. It's a place where we get to, like, reevaluate, we get to kind of retool, like recognize okay, what I was doing wasn't working. And so it's a,

Brittney: 43:57

you an opportunity to like step back for a second and like zoom out and look, okay. This is ev, I'm laying it all on the table. Okay. What needs to change here? what can realistically change quickly and what is gonna require a more of a long-term change? And then what is gonna be, if, if I do change something significant, how is everything else around it gonna be affected? You have to break it down like

Tash: 44:18

like that.

Brittney: 44:18

sometimes,

Kara: 44:19

Yeah. very much so. What about you, Tash? What stage or part of the cycle I should stay sticks out the most to you right now.

Tash: 44:28

Oh, right now, I'm definitely in that last stage I've been, I feel like I've been there for a while. I, I really do. And maybe again, it's, just who I am as a person and, my Enneagram number. You know, I'm just like a. She's a fighter. We got this. And so I'm not just like a fighter for Jack, I'm a fighter for all people in all realms and all things. But yeah, I feel like that's kind of where I'm at right now. and I have always set a very clear, boundary of, me personal care, my time, my especially being a fire wife, you know what I mean? When we have just this like ridiculous. Schedule. so it's that my mental health has always been a priority to me because I've had severe mental health issues. And so let me go back and say, I was at that point where I was in the complete go mode, and then I felt like we were stabilized for a while and I was lost. I was lost. For what looked like, you know, everything was under control and looked great from the outside perspective. And I was an alone mess, an alone mess with a bunch of people around me.

Kara: 45:34

And I think you hit on something really, it's, it's, definitely part of the cycle where on the outside everything looks okay, but internally you are very clear. This is not

Tash: 45:42

okay. Yes. yeah, And that's when I hit that point of like. I didn't wanna live anymore. I I. didn't wanna do this anymore. I didn't like, and, that was that huge pivotal moment where. Christ came into my life and, and everything changed and I think it's just been like, just trending upwards then. so not to say that there's not messiness and chaos and all of that, whatever, and, and of course very much like we've said, our children are constantly changing in their different evolution of their life and, and self. And so that's constantly changing our. know, the mode that we're in we're affected by it, you know? So, again, why that grief cycle is, you know, not linear and,

Brittney: 46:23

And can, can I just say too, with a grief cycle or even your cycle that you were talking about, Kara, you can be in more than one place at a time too. You can be accepting and angry. You can be, you know, denial and whatever. You can be in more than one place at a time.

Tash: 46:39

Yeah.

Kara: 46:39

Yeah. Thanks for mentioning that.

Tash: 46:40

Yeah.

Kara: 46:40

definitely.

Tash: 46:42

I'm in a place though, where I'm like, I'm gonna put everybody in my pocket and we're just gonna do this together. And don't worry, I'm the chihuahua, actually, I'm more like the pit bull and I'm

Brittney: 46:49

Oh no, you're not a Chi

Tash: 46:51

I'm just gonna be like biting jugulars and taking you know names and we're just gonna do this together. I don't know.

Kara: 46:58

I wanna have your energy. I'm a little jelly over here. I'm like, I was like, this is great. can you share, would you

Tash: 47:05

did I say earlier? What did I say about being in the clown?

Kara: 47:08

Oh yeah, we were okay before we got on the call. Tasha's a very bright dresser, very like fun, a lot of good energy. I was kind of saying, and she's like, yeah, I feel best when I look like a little bit like a circus clown. I was like, that's hilarious. I look like a librarian, which is fine. I feel best when I look like a librarian. Okay, we are gonna wrap up here and. What's funny is this is like the second thing I wanted to talk about'cause it's really important. I wanna talk about your old podcast. And so tell me first off what the podcast is. I mean, I could tell'em, but you're here so let's have you tell'em. And I'd love to hear a little bit about like, okay, a lot of people talk about doing something like this, but to get four women together doing something like this is pretty incredible.

Tash: 47:51

have no, I, we have no, idea what we're doing still. And

Brittney: 47:54

come on. we, we do,

Tash: 47:55

we, we do, but we did, we didn't, in the beginning it was like this fun floated idea that we were probably, some of us were probably drinking and you know, it was like, yeah, sounds like a good time. Let's do

Brittney: 48:07

Let's go.

Tash: 48:07

Oh, Sure. It be that hard, And then there was like point of no return, right. Where it was like, okay.

Kara: 48:11

it tipped over.

Tash: 48:13

We're doing

Brittney: 48:13

Yeah.

Tash: 48:14

Brittney,

Brittney: 48:15

Okay. we met during the pandemic. We were all searching, trying to find connection with anybody, and a lot of that was online. That's just kind of how it was During that time, there was a larger group of us, and I think we were on Instagram messaging each other, and so we, we didn't, it's hard to do that in a larger group because you're just seeing people's names. You're not seeing their faces. You're, you know, you're, you're just reading text, and Tash actually was the catalyst. We can thank her for every episode of Mom's Talk Autism because she, needed to take a social media break for her mental health, and she asked if we could switch to a different platform. And so we went over to Marco Polo. I would say no free ads, but we love Marco Polo, so go check it out. Marco Polo. And, it's a video app that, you know, it's like FaceTime, but it will save the videos. You don't have to watch them in real time. So we, switched over. There were a few of us who went over more than just the four and eventually kind of dropped off and it just kind of became the four of us. We were the ones who stuck it out. We, we connected and we started really, Drawing a lot of strength and validation and connection with each other. Our children are different ages, different diagnoses, different levels of care needed, gender. We live in different places, but there was enough there that we really felt like it strengthened us as, individuals and as each other. And we fell a bond as it continued, we just felt like, you know what? We are drawing so much positive. Energy and it, it's not like all of our problems are going away, but we are feeling better about ourselves by talking to each other. Maybe we need to record some of these conversations

Tash: 49:46

Yeah. and

Brittney: 49:47

them with other people

Tash: 49:48

the validation point. Right. That was there right from the beginning. We went deep, quick,

Brittney: 49:52

We, we really, we kind of do. Yeah. We dove in the deep end for sure. And it was the best thing that could have happened to us. I think we needed to do that. We were all in a place where we were ready and we did it together. So, yeah, and that's kind of how it started. And it's just evolved from there. There's been setbacks and craziness and scheduling and technical difficulties. And Tash is learned how to edit audio tracks, which she wouldn't have never thought

Tash: 50:14

would've better her life. People are like, oh, this sounds like crap. We know who we know who ruined it.

Brittney: 50:19

To, no. We all have our jobs now and we make it happen. And we've met people all over the world. We've met professionals, we've met other moms, we've met dads, we've met aunts, we've met siblings, and we've met actually autistic individuals who have been diagnosed and come on. It's been amazing and it is a lot of hard work and it takes a lot of time. But the, joy and the, community and the validation that we are getting and that we are supplying for other people is totally worth it. I'm sure you would say the same for your podcast and your word, Kara. So that's where we are. So moms talk autism is what it's called, and there's four of us and sometimes there's all four of us on and sometimes there's just a couple with a guest and we try to change it up so it's not always the same. And it's a lot of just us

Tash: 51:00

us like talking. And community

Brittney: 51:03

in community stories. We have other moms on to talk. Yeah. And share their pieces, especially if it's something that maybe we don't have direct experience with. We'll have, you know, somebody on who does and we ask'em questions and it's just, we try to keep it really casual and, easy to approach and, and we'd love for you to join us

Tash: 51:19

us if you wanna. Yeah. Yeah.

Kara: 51:21

Well, yes,

Tash: 51:23

no return. Definitely

Kara: 51:25

All of the people here are clearly podcast listeners, so go jump over and check that out and send them some love. Don't forget to rate and review their show guys.'cause you know what, this is a very helpful thing to do for podcasters who work very hard for you. Yes. And it's a also a little subtle, like, please also do that for me. And, I want to respect our time, and I don't wanna end, but we are going to end because this is just like, I feel like there's so many different threads we can go down. so maybe we'll have to do a number two. and, just as we wrap up, anything else that you just kind of feel like, oh, didn't get to say this, share this, and just kind of what's on your mind as we close out.

Tash: 52:01

I've got something just community, just find your community and, and, and go, you know, headfirst and be in it. don't isolate because it changes

Brittney: 52:11

It's scary, but it's worth it. and even if you crash and burn at first, maybe you don't find them right away. It's okay. You just keep trying. It's,

Tash: 52:19

yeah, because here's the other thing, even if it's not for support of your kids. It's for support of you, and that's what you need, self care and, and taking care of you as a woman, as a mother, as a human, as all the things you gotta care for yourself first. So,

Brittney: 52:36

and to piggyback on that, what we, we've said this many, many times, we call it diversifying your

Tash: 52:40

your

Brittney: 52:41

portfolio. You need to have, you need to have your online friends, you need to have your local friends. You need to have friends from school. You need to have friends from church. You need to have friends from your neighborhood. You need to have friends who have the same diagnosis as your child. You need to have a friend from high school. Like all of that is important. don't just find one group or one person because sometimes that, maybe that isn't the right place. That's not where you need the support. So you need to have. A diverse portfolio of people in your life. spouses, you know, siblings, family, all of it. and that's very, very helpful. And just the last thing I would say is if you feel like you're in a place where nothing is changing or nothing is working, I promise you from the very depths of my soul, it will change.

Tash: 53:25

Mm-hmm.

Brittney: 53:26

I'm not saying it's gonna be easier. But I promise you it will change. and that is the one thing I think we can all count on, and it is constant and you need to grow and change with whatever happens and find those people who will support you as that change continues.

Tash: 53:41

So. yeah. I love

Kara: 53:43

Oh, I'm just clapping on the inside and saying amen. So thank you so much. I can't think of a, a better couple, ending thoughts to wrap up with, and so I just wanna say thank you so much for your time and for your energy. Yeah. We'll see you all in the next episode.