Carriers of Hope a Conversation with Founders of Labeled and Loved: Julie Hornok and Dr. Regina Crone Artwork

The Special Needs Mom Podcast

Think of this podcast as your very own special needs mom support group--except it's helpful and fun! You will leave with the hope that you can have a super happy life even when your life includes parenting a medically complex child or a child with something like autism and ADHD.

You likely didn't ask to be the parent of a disabled child or to live portions of your life in the hospital NICU or PICU. Your story is unique; it’s hard to find a place where you belong or where you don't feel so isolated and alone. Your child might have a rare disease, be undiagnosed or experience something that almost everybody has heard of like Downs syndrome yet the weird thing is that whether your child has an intellectual disability or physical disability, the experience as a mother is so similar. So regardless of your child’s disability, we can all find a home in this community.

You find yourself managing everybody else's needs; your child, their siblings, and all the guilt that you have about that. All this has you feeling overwhelmed, anxious, and dizzy---not knowing who to turn to or what to do next for help. This podcast is your lifeline, you’ll find encouragement and inspiration as we connect to other moms’ journeys. We’ll get practical and look at what it takes to stop feeling so stuck in your life.

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The Special Needs Mom Podcast

Carriers of Hope a Conversation with Founders of Labeled and Loved: Julie Hornok and Dr. Regina Crone

July 30, 2025 • Kara Ryska • Episode 261

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This episode lit me up. I had the gift of sitting down with Julie Hornok and Dr. Regina Crone—co-founders of Labeled and Loved. Together, they’ve created something powerful for moms like us navigating disability and special needs: connection, purpose, and spaces where you don’t have to explain yourself.

Julie brings over 20 years of experience in the special needs world—as a mom, speaker, behavioral program facilitator, and author of United in Autism. You might’ve seen her featured on Focus on the Family, Today Parents, or even iHeartRadio. Her work-hard-play-hard energy is contagious.

Regina, a Ph.D. and board-certified behavior analyst, was inspired by her brother’s diagnosis. She owns Therapy & Beyond, and has spent decades presenting, writing, and supporting families across the country. Oh—and she lives on a farm in Texas with her crew, which includes chickens and cows. Her motto? “Go with the flow and eat chocolate.” Legendary.

We talked about what it looks like to grieve expectations and still find deep joy. About the hard moments that no one prepares you for—and the small but bold steps that can shift everything. And we dove into the retreat they created just for moms like us (recently featured on The Kelly Clarkson Show, by the way).

If you’re feeling stretched thin, isolated, or like you’ve lost pieces of yourself along the way, this one will speak directly to your heart.

Resources Mentioned:

Get The Special Needs Mom Survival Pack HERE

Connect with Kara, host of The Special Needs Mom Podcast:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thespecialneedsmompodcast/
Website: https://www.kararyska.com/

Kara: 0:05

Hi, I am Kara, life coach, wife and mom to four incredible and unique children. It wasn't all that long ago that my son received a diagnosis that had my world come crashing down. I lacked the ability to see past the circumstances, which felt impossible and the dreams I once had for my life and family felt destroyed. Fast forward, past many years of surviving and not at all thriving, and you'll see a mom who trusts that she can handle anything that comes her way and has access to the power and confidence that once felt so lacking. I created the Special Needs Mom podcast to create connection and community with moms who find themselves feeling trapped and with no one who really understands. My intention is to spark the flare of possibility in your own life and rekindle your ability to dream. This isn't a podcast about your special needs child. This is a podcast about you. If you are a mom who feels anxious, alone or stuck, then you are in the right place. Welcome.

1:13

Hello and welcome to the Special Needs Mom podcast. This is Kara, your host, and I'm so glad you're here. Well, I'm super energized, not just from the coffee, but because I got off of a recording session just moments ago with the guest today of the podcast. We have two guests, so it was double trouble. We had Julie Hornick and Dr. Regina Cron, and they are connected through their co-creation of the labeled and loved foundation and. I don't normally read the full bios of people, but you know what? In this case, I think it's gonna just set a good stage for the episode. So here I go. Let's read away. Julie Houck is the co-founder of Labeled and Loved. She brings over 20 years of special needs industry experience as a parent behavioral program facilitator, global interviewer, speaker, and the award-winning author. United in autism, finding strength inside the spectrum. She can also be found on focus on the family broadcast today. Parents, Yahoo Chicken Soup for the Soul and iHeartRadio. Look how busy she's been. Julie's passion is using lessons learned hard from raising her three kids to connect and create life-changing events for families with disabilities. With a work hard, play hard philosophy. If she isn't furiously typing her latest brainstorm on her laptop, you'll find her relaxing on the beach with her favorite people. And boy do I relate to her about the work hard, play hard, and the latest brainstorm on the on laptop. All right, let's meet Dr. Regina Cron. She's also the co-founder of Label and loved and is passionate about all abilities. Her brother's diagnosis introduced her to the world of disabilities and continues to be the inspiration behind her career. She holds a PhD and is the owner of therapy and beyond. Dr. Cone has been active in the disability community since 1998, gaining experience as a special education teacher, board certified behavioral analyst, and nationally invited speaker. She prevents on a variety of topics, including social skills, language reading, and behavior management for both professionals and families. She's also a published researcher in the area of parent training and has authored several featured articles. Dr. Cron lives in Texas with her husband, three children, dogs, cows, and chickens. Her motto is, go with the flow and eat chocolate. I mean, are you not dying to hear more from these two ladies on what they cooked up for you? I certainly am, and you knew who else was? They were just on the Kelly Clarkson show. I think that's pretty cool. It's fancy and so let's jump right in and meet these two carriers of hope.

Gina: 4:11

Well, welcome to the Special Needs Mom podcast to Julie and Gina.

Julie: 4:17

Hello. Welcome. Thank you for having us.

Gina: 4:19

Yes,

Kara: 4:20

we could talk in so many different ways and so many, different topics that we're very passionate about. So we're gonna constrain this conversation, but we're gonna start with just learning more about who you are. How you got to where you are and what matters most to you. So I'll let each of you take turns answering those questions.

Julie: 4:39

Sure. You want me to start, Gina?

Gina: 4:41

Yeah, go.

Julie: 4:42

Okay. I'm Julie and I have three kiddos and. My middle child, which is my daughter, was diagnosed with autism just shortly after her second birthday, and I think I went into motherhood with all these expectations I expected specifically because I have two boys, and this was my daughter. I was so excited about going to get my nails done with her, and I couldn't wait to do tea parties, and I just wanted to do everything pink, and I just

Kara: 5:08

Yeah.

Julie: 5:09

it up really, really big, and I just. Dreamed about what my life was gonna look like with Lizzie, my daughter. upon this diagnosis, she was pretty profoundly affected where she was opening and closing doors, gibberish all day long, no language. And I could be standing in front of her screaming her name with zero response, like she would just was completely glazed over. So there was no communication. And the thing that I valued the

Kara: 5:34

Yeah.

Julie: 5:35

children, which was the connection. It had been severed, it was gone. There was no response, and it was really, really hard. But then on top of that emotional connection that I was missing, of course we jumped into the therapy world, just like every single other special needs mom does. And we decided to do a 30 to 40 hour week therapy program in our home. So our entire life changed from. at the park and going to the Chick-fil-A, you know, little play area to being at home therapist after therapist, after therapist. And when we weren't home, we were going to doctor's appointments, and then I was getting school stuff done. So all the same things that parents do. And I think I became overwhelmed very quickly and I became isolated. Not because people weren't reaching out, but because I think

Kara: 6:22

you were busy. Yeah.

Julie: 6:24

we were busy and someone says something to us and we start to build these little walls. You know,

Kara: 6:28

Uhhuh.

Julie: 6:28

do it intentionally, but then we step back and realize, oh my gosh, I've isolated myself. And for me, what I had to really go backwards and look at was my expectations of motherhood. And I had to begin to say, okay, I expected one thing and this. Something completely different. And how do I rectify that? How do I figure out how to grieve the motherhood I had thought in my head, not my child because she's amazing, but grieve that motherhood and then build steps on top of that after that to find peace and joy and just, a general happiness and a way to live with this new lifestyle.

Kara: 7:07

Yeah, definitely. And so fast forward to kind of how you spend your daughter's 22 now, and so that you know, diagnosis at two years old was quite a bit of time ago, and I'd love to hear a little bit more about what life looks like for you now and what matters.

Julie: 7:28

Yeah, I mean our life is very, very different now. The, my daughter was one of those kiddos where the therapy just kind of worked and little by little over a space of 20 years, we began to build skills. She was able to get. Language was just super amazing. and most importantly, we just were able to get that connection back through lots of therapy and working on that type of programming. And, as part of, along the way one of the things I remember is actively working to drop those expectations. And so I remember one time we were at a restaurant and we were celebrating'cause she had said her first word and so she was overwhelmed because it was new smells, new sounds, new people. New food knew everything. And so she, I let her kind of choose where we sit and she went and she sat in a booth and then I could see her getting overwhelmed and she stood up and she just stood there for a second. And then she grasped the side of the booth and then she started jumping. And at first it was little jumps, and then it became a little bit bigger, a little bit more distracting, jumps. And I noticed everyone was looking at

Kara: 8:34

Mm-hmm.

Julie: 8:34

And then I realized in about two seconds after that, no, they're looking at me. And I think that is what we feel, and maybe you don't know how to say as special needs moms, is we feel a judgment. And then in our

Kara: 8:45

Mm-hmm.

Julie: 8:46

we have a decision to make. Am I going to parent for what I know my child needs? Am I gonna parent for the fact that my child is getting overstimulated, she needs this jumping in this moment, or am I gonna parent to look good to other people that I'm never gonna see again? And so I took a deep breath and I made a conscious decision and I said. Good jumping. Lizzie really loud and their mouths dropped.

Kara: 9:09

love that you said that so loud. That was a brilliant thing to do in the moment.

Julie: 9:13

yeah,

Kara: 9:13

one.

Julie: 9:14

smile. I made it a little bit dramatic, but it was really sweet because I thought I was going to be embarrassed. I thought I was gonna grab my food

Kara: 9:21

Yeah.

Julie: 9:21

that. And there's something, when you finally realized I was a good mom to my child and that's all I'm supposed to be doing is parenting my child and none of those other people matter. So dropping. That really gave me the ability to have joy in this motherhood and just to be a little different when I were out there.

Kara: 9:40

I had a moment similar where it was, one would not think that I felt proud in the moment, but, so giving people a little bit of a picture. My son is, there's a lot of my son, he's six foot one over 300 pounds. He's a large individual and I'm a tall woman, but. He just, you know, he's significantly bigger than most people around him. And, we were at a party and I was needing to intervene, to kind of keep him from doing something that he wanted to do. And he did not want me to intervene. So what happened? You guys guess it, he hit me. And so, and he hit me several times, but in the moment I was just able to stay very calm. Like as in like, all I need to do is move you from this thing. And you know, like also it is a little bit like. What do I need to do to basically also make sure that the explosion doesn't get bigger? So it's like kind of controlling, I don't know. It's almost like it's like a, an animal. He's not an animal. I'm not saying he's an animal, but like that you're trying to be like, okay, like I know what you're gonna do next and I need to create a space where like that thing doesn't go as bad as it could. And, but I, you know, have this experience and I'm like, I feel proud that like, people could have seen me get s slugged. And be like, wow. Like she did not respond. Like did she notice that she got hit, but like she was so focused on what her son needed and how to get him to safety that I was like, that would be pretty incredible to watch. Like, and so I was proud of myself in that moment, which.

Julie: 11:10

Yeah.

Kara: 11:11

Didn't happen overnight. And so I'm sure that moment for you in the restaurant where you were so quick on your toes and said, good jumping, that didn't come overnight. and I think that speaks to like, you know, the journey that this is like the step-by-step, grieving you really letting go of those expectations that you would have a typical motherhood experience. You had to really do that work. So

Julie: 11:32

to do it again, to be a better

Kara: 11:34

yeah.

Julie: 11:35

Time after time, after time to next time she dances in public when it's inappropriate to let her enjoy her life, you know, and at each step of the way, it doesn't have to look anything like the other kids.

Kara: 11:48

Mm-hmm.

Julie: 11:49

it's our dog to parent for our individual children.

Kara: 11:52

Yes, very much so. And this leads me to start thinking about,'cause as you're sharing that, I'm thinking about, yes, I'm doing the work, but also I'm teaching my children to do the work because Levi has three siblings. And so Gina, you're here today, with your lived experience being a sibling, to a brother who is autistic. And so let's turn to you to give you a little bit of a voice here and share a little bit about who you are and how you came to be.

Gina: 12:21

Yeah, so I, do have a different perspective and it's interesting because I think as a sibling you really are in a position of really not knowing what that role is defined as because it's been a part of your life. it is interesting in my childhood that I'm the oldest of five kids, so I was 12 years old when my brother came into our family and our life. And so I do have that of seeing the difference a diagnosis does bring to the family dynamics. And I think that's, and I was at a very pivotal age

Kara: 12:50

Mm-hmm.

Gina: 12:51

where you're kind of self-absorbed at 12 and you're in the world trying to. Define who you are and what's important, and you're looking for lots of attention and, and all the things. So I definitely saw just a shift in attention and presence and stress. I think that was brought into our home and, you know, as I've, I've kind of reflected on, okay. People say, what? What did you feel like as a sibling? Right? And I'm like, I don't know. I don't know what I felt. I don't think I have a story here. I'm just always sharing my brother's story, which has been in inspirational to me and who I am today. And, and then I started to reflect on that more. And I was just thinking of, what was my 12-year-old self thinking all the time? And one of the things that just kept coming up in a theme was, it's not fair.

Kara: 13:38

Mm-hmm.

Gina: 13:39

like a lot of dimensions, right? So. not fair that this is happening to my brother, right? There can become a lot of guilt associated with a sibling.

Kara: 13:47

Mm-hmm.

Gina: 13:48

why is this happening to him and, and not me? you can feel like, Hey, it's not fair that my mom is over there. With my brother. Is that her favorite? Right. it's not fair that people ask questions. I'll give you an example of, it's not fair. My mom, I remember being in church and someone coming from the Sunday school'cause my brother was being challenging, getting her out of church and I was right next to her. And I just remember this lady saying, do you know something's wrong with him? And this is before a diagnosis, but just how like. Shocking those words are and how unfair that is. And you know, it's not fair that my brother wasn't invited to birthday parties wasn't included. And so I think that has really become the theme of what I was observing and feeling, but then changing that to, what was good? What really has grown to be something good from what seemed like a lot of struggles, through those years, and a lot of not fair, but it's really led me to who I am today. So I'm, I'm so thankful for those experiences too.

Kara: 14:58

Yeah. And share with us a little bit about how the experience, the lived experience you have being your brother's sister, kind of led you to the path that you have taken professionally and what you do now.

Gina: 15:10

Yeah, so I'm a, I have a PhD and I'm a board certified behavior analyst. And so I feel like I have the best dream job'cause I get to do what I love every day. it's definitely fueled my, my passion of seeing my brother. So I'll just give you an example of kind of the difference or the day to day life that changed and that really. me as a sibling watching my brother, and one of the first moments I kind of remember something was not okay was when I saw my brother bang his head on the floor. In our kitchen when he was frustrated. And then seeing my mom's just eyes wide and her kind of gasping to pick him up and comfort him was like the first time I thought, oh, something's not okay. Right? Because you expect your parents to kind of have all the answers and they're all knowing, and I just see in that moment, my mom did not know what to do my mom very much then saw it. Professionals and went to help my brother. He was nonverbal, so no communication skills, and she was taking him to therapists who were basically preparing her. He will never talk. He will never go to school. He will never, he will never, he will never. my mom just kept going to the next person and she drove quite a ways when she found this individual that she kind of put some. Hope and again. Right.

Kara: 16:24

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Gina: 16:25

different approach. She had a behavioral approach and she started with my brother and taught him sign language. So instead of just trying to get him to speak, which was very frustrating to him, she started with sign language and when he started using sign language to communicate. His behaviors went down, the headbanging stopped. And in my family, as a sibling, I remember thinking, this lady just saved my family. Like, I just

Kara: 16:49

Hmm.

Gina: 16:50

like, my world is calmer and, then to see my brother have sign language and then start to have words and then start to progress, his sentences actually enter into a typical kindergarten. then, he's now graduated high school. He went on to get his associate's degree. He's now, an HVAC and works for a grocery store chain, which is amazing. Scuba dives with my dad. Lives with my parents, but has definitely, he's, he's 30 now. I'm a little over 30. so, but just witnessing all of those things as a kiddo, I just became obsessed with, I wanna be like that lady. I wanna go help families. And that's something as providers, is that we're not just impacting one person that we're working with, we're impacting the entire family then labeled and loved. Has really allowed me to do what I don't. I get to focus on the kids kind of in my day job and then labeled and loved as like my passion project, probably my hobby,'cause I think about it and sleep

Kara: 17:47

Mm-hmm.

Gina: 17:48

at night

Kara: 17:48

Mm-hmm.

Gina: 17:48

it. and that's really the family focus point. That's the how do we create this community and it's. close to my heart'cause I had never even met another family that had a child with a disability until I was a professional. when I reflect on that now as a someone who's over 40 and has my own children, and I look at my mom, I'm like, you know, it wasn't fair is

Kara: 18:12

Yeah.

Gina: 18:12

who

Kara: 18:13

Yeah.

Gina: 18:14

this world that doesn't understand with so little information, with no support, on her own with five children and. She is solely an inspiration and truly our family superhero. So we want other moms to have what my mom never had.

Kara: 18:31

A hundred percent. So walk us through the becoming of labeled in love. So at some point you guys meet and birth this new baby. tell us a little bit about that.

Julie: 18:44

well Gina was doing events profess like through her work, and then I was doing them community givebacks. Thank you. That's the right word. Yes. And then I was doing something and so we kind of came together and started doing it together and it's been with a one night event and just seeing the moms change from the time they walk in the door, they walk in. Just isolated and exhausted. And then you walk in and the connection begins, and that connection is more than a night off. It's a lifeline. And so we, that started just with the Moms Mingles events, one night events, and then we saw a need for a bigger event a whole weekend. Everyone kept saying, do a weekend. We need longer. We need longer. And so that's when the Labeled and Loved retreat came into the play and the labeled and loved retreat. three solid days of just connection and love. They walk in, they get a hug, everything is prepared for them. I think as moms of kids with special needs, are used to getting the room at the end of the hall that isn't even decorated for our kids. And things are just not done for us as families. And so every moment is thought through. And I think the coolest thing we do that is helpful to the moms is we're able to take kind of what I talked about earlier with the expectations. We come in and hopefully by the first night they're gonna know I belong here. This is a place I may not belong anywhere else, but this is created for me. Any diagnosis, any disability, any age of mom or they have any age of kid or adult is welcomed with, labeled and loved. And they come in, they know you belong. And guess what we're gonna talk about. All those things that you don't wanna talk about. You don't even have to if you don't wanna.'cause we already get it. But we will talk about it all. We understand it all, and then the next day we start to kind of sift through those expectations of what we thought and grieving what we have to let go of, and really taking active steps to think through how we're going to begin to let go and surrender the life that we had or thought we were gonna have. And then trying to almost recognize and reactivate our desires inside of us, like the things we love to do, our passion, like if. We are creative people, you know, that might have died for a while, and so how can we begin to. Tap back into that and then repurpose that creativity in this new life that we're living as mothers. And so each mom comes in, she has abilities, and so we try and help her kind of reconnect with her, the self, the me before the diagnosis and the move forward in that way. And then after that, we focus on sisterhood and the fact that we are better and stronger together and we can go. You know, really we can't go as far alone as we can together. And we, because most of us will be what we call forever nesters, most of us will have be caring for our kids in some way, shape, or form. We have to be forever awesome. So we can't do that unless we're supported within our community with the moms together. So we do that through hands-on activity, through fun. We have a dance party. We got time for naps. We have all kinds of really great and exciting activities that kind of. Bring that in and package it together.

Kara: 21:52

Oh, that's awesome. And actually, I think the term forever nester is new to me and I'm like, it's great to have some language, for that. especially since it's a play on the whole empty nester thing. so I haven't been able to participate in one of your specific retreats. However, I've gone on many special needs moms retreats and. I mean, so as you're describing this, I'm able actually to feel and remember the impact of exactly what you're describing and how amazing it is to connect at that level with other sisters here. And I've all, I also noticed that early on in the podcast, I noticed that like. We kind of had the same experience, right? Where it's like, you know, I meet someone for 30 seconds and then like 30 seconds later we're talking about something very deep, personal, vulnerable, you name it. And I found that it's because we have this very common lived experience, whether or not it's a, we have a child that's a behavioral based disability or medically based disability, or a variety of the two, it's. The alternative lifestyle that has you, I think connect on this is not how I thought it would go. And you understand me, you understand me, you see me in a way that I know that other people can't see you. So I love that you have brought your passions, your lived experiences, your challenges and successes into this community. So well done and we are gonna talk more about the retreat later, but I wanna talk actually. A little bit about, and we're going this direction and I wanna talk about the front row seat. You have to seeing moms come into the retreat space, how they come and how they go. But I think we're gonna share you and I, the experience of watching moms have an opportunity. Sometimes not take it, and the heartbreak that comes with that. So for, we'll use the retreat as an example. Totally get that. There's challenges to getting there, but knowing the gift that you have at the end of this retreat and seeing where moms get stuck. So not with judgment, but really just with compassion. We know that there's good reasons to get stuck, but the heartbreak that comes with that is you watch people not be able to get there. So if you could, I guess, give a, a shift for a mom that has her be able to show up, what would that be? What would you offer her, in something that you just want her to give herself so badly? I.

Gina: 24:25

Yeah, I think knowing that when she's healthy, she has more to give to her kids and can show up for her family. And I think because we see so many moms that are putting their family's needs above their own, realizing that prioritizing yourself is a gift to your family. and we've seen that. And we've also seen, I think, oh, sometimes people will hesitate'cause they don't know anyone. I think that can be a big barrier is feeling like, okay, I'm gonna be, I feel alone and I'm gonna go to this and feel alone. I think

Kara: 24:57

Mm-hmm.

Gina: 24:58

seen is we do those mom mingles outreach events. We are set up for the mom walking in by herself and there is a large percentage that walk in knowing no one. How brave is that? we introduced them to a whole table. Of people that have walked in knowing no one, and immediately they're able to find that community and connection and celebration. we've had moms who kind of overcome what you're talking about, gotten through the hard things to the point where we've had a, a dad drive his wife to the event with their child who would not be able to be apart from his or her mom for an extended time, sit in the car with the child and the mom would come in and run back and forth because she was so desperate to be connected. And so. I think that's inspiring to

Kara: 25:52

Mm-hmm.

Gina: 25:53

hesitant

Kara: 25:54

Mm-hmm.

Gina: 25:54

this and say, okay, women are inspiring because they're brave and showing up, and I can do that. Not looking at why I can't do that, but what can I do to make it possible? Because the results for your family are worth investing in yourself.

Kara: 26:10

A hundred percent. Like I'm on the inside, like screaming and joy and, and hearing the way that you're speaking about this'cause fundamentally that's the conversation of this podcast is not why can't I, it's how can I

Gina: 26:23

Mm-hmm.

Julie: 26:24

Yeah.

Kara: 26:24

whatever the thing is. And so I think you're right on in terms of. I just think, yeah, like when you see a mom, who and family, right?'cause that dad supported, to be there, right? To take that huge step. it's so inspiring, but I wanna focus on what is one small step that you have seen mom's take that has made a big difference? And I would love for each of you to answer.

Julie: 26:51

Hmm. I think it's always about the starting the first reach out. You know, whether it is with an

Kara: 27:00

The gateway drug, if you will.

Julie: 27:01

you Yeah. Because I think as moms, what we have done since our child has been diagnosed. We either consciously or subconsciously have started saying no to everything. So we, we have retrained our brain to say, no,'cause I can't do that. No.'cause I have to take care of my child. No.'cause I have to be doing this. No. All of my energy has to go into my one child. Even no. To the siblings. No. To our husbands. No. To all of those things. And so I think the, the one thing you can do is think about, I just wanna say one. Yes. And is that one yes. Gonna be to making a phone call to somebody I used to be friends with that I enjoyed. Is that one yes. Gonna be that I'm gonna sign up for the retreat. Is that one Yes. Gonna be that? I just share, even on a little bit of our stories so the people who care about us can go at and begin to connect with me again and so that I can begin the connection to start. So I would say, say my first thing, first step. My one thing is just say yes to something that connects you.

Kara: 28:00

Nice. Thank you. I love it. What would you say, Gina?

Gina: 28:04

You know, I think something that, man has been a blessing to just watch and the women that we're surrounded with

Kara: 28:11

Gina: 28:11

become really hope carriers. They begin carrying hope and sharing that with others, and you might not have time to do everything that's needed, but we talk a lot about how you are the person around a circle. Forming a circle around somebody in need and sometimes you're the person stepping inside that circle to receive that support.

Kara: 28:33

Mm-hmm.

Gina: 28:34

at the end of the day, a lot of these women have turned in their experience and transformation into caring hope to that next person.

Julie: 28:42

Hmm.

Gina: 28:42

that just within our sisterhood circles that have,'cause what we basically found is. We're doing all this stuff like in one night or one weekend, but what's happening in the months in between, and we've been able to accomplish these small groups that are mom led because our hope carriers are making informing groups that they can now lead and share their experiences and pass hope and strength onto the next person. And so. I just think that willingness to realize I am capable of caring, hope and sharing that, is a powerful message and empower. We've seen it be so empowering.

Kara: 29:20

Yeah. And being able to, to really fully, own that I'm both a hope carrier and a hope receiver,

Gina: 29:27

Yes.

Kara: 29:28

that it's not one or the other. So I think you, you highlighted that and I wanted to Yeah.

Gina: 29:32

that now.

Kara: 29:33

Yeah. Good.

Gina: 29:34

I love

Kara: 29:35

well, you already did, like, you're the one that was saying, I mean, that's what I was hearing when I was listening to you and I think, and actually this just came up in the, community that I just relaunched, my coaching community, it's called Patho de Peace Coaching Community. And that's what one of the moms shared is that like, I both wanna share what I've accomplished, what I've done, and, and who I've become and I still have needs. And it was like Exactly, exactly. It's not one or the other. We don't, there's.

Gina: 30:01

Right.

Kara: 30:02

bad news. There's no place of arrival. There's no place where we're like, oh, we've all figured it out and now we're gonna be happy every afternoon. It's, it's constant. So thank you for pointing that out. Okay. So let's dive into your personal stories a little bit more than we already have. So, Julie, let's, let's start with you. So you, we already know your daughter now is 22

Julie: 30:26

Mm-hmm.

Kara: 30:26

I wanna go back in time, back before. She did benefit from all the therapies back before you kind of knew how her story was gonna look like today. when you look back, what do you see as the seasons or the most challenging or maybe even darkest times of your motherhood journey?

Julie: 30:46

I think probably when she was getting close to four. And so as much as I had these expectations for motherhood, the second she had the diagnosis, I had expectations for how quickly that diagnosis was gonna change and how much we were gonna, and I'm putting in error quotes, fix the situation, you I poured my entire heart and soul That time of just, okay, we are gonna get her back to what I consider to be typical or whatever I wanted our life to look like typically. So we did all this therapy and when she was turning four, we still could not even have an interaction together other than like me giving her food. There was no like social. Interaction. And I remember one specific day where I, my mom was helping me'cause I just mentally wasn't doing good. I'm like, nothing I did worked. You know, I felt like such a failure as a mother. And I was laying on the couch and she was getting the kids ready for school. And she looks at me and she's just like, listen, you have one job today. There's like barely any food in your fridge. Go to Walmart. And so I went to Walmart, threw on a sweatshirt, didn't even put on a bra, and I got all of the food. Out for the day and put it on the counter when I got home. And that was literally all I had to give. And I went back and laid down on the couch and by the time my mom got home with the kids, the cold stuff had spoiled and she had to throw it all away. And so I, I share that just to say that we all have low points, but with every low point It has to come with really looking internally and why am I in so much despair? Why am I feeling so awful? And that came again, back to what I thought of what my life was gonna be. So I was able to slowly, through a lot of work,

Kara: 32:27

Mm-hmm.

Julie: 32:28

was gonna be and begin to look for the small things, in Lizzie's life that I wasn't enjoying. And I really think the thing that, I think about the hardest times, I was attaching I guess that her behavior and the things I needed to fix to my worth and to her worth, and neither of our worth is connected to those things. You know, I, believe I'm worthy because I'm a child of God. She is worthy in our family because she is my daughter, and she is never less than the other kids. She is never more. And so if we. detach the worth and the actions. I felt like that really helped me to realize there's nothing that's changed in our family. I can do this, we can be joyful because her childhood is just as beautiful as what any other childhood is. It's just very, very, very different.

Kara: 33:16

Yeah.

Julie: 33:17

of the hardest time for me was that timeframe I,'cause I

Kara: 33:19

Yeah.

Julie: 33:21

Was seeking connection with my daughter and it wasn't there and it would come later, but it wasn't there then.

Kara: 33:27

Well, you answered even the question I was gonna ask next is like, kind of what shifted that for you? And what I hear in what you just shared is it was a combination of surrender, grief and re-envisioning. So like you had to unt attach, I think you articulated this so well, unattached, that like. The attachment you had to how she was showing up in this world to her worth and value, and of course your experience as a mom. And so you unattached those two things and then wow, you had a different perspective and you had to grieve those things and what you thought would be, and all the things. So, thank you so much for sharing. That and yeah, giving, I always like to kind of make sure we don't just share the happy end story here in this, right? Because most of us are not at the happy end story part of our life. And I think giving that glimpse into that moment where all your food spoiled on your counter'cause you just didn't have the capacity to do any more than you, you're already doing. I know a lot of listeners are gonna really relate to that. So thank you for sharing. So, Gina, let's turn to you and your experience. And so actually if you would give, well, you've shared a little bit about kind of you, you were 12 when the diagnosis, became part of your family story. But give a little bit of, maybe paint a picture of kind of what you were witnessing and experiencing, and let's start with that.

Gina: 34:50

I think as a sibling, I think I said this earlier, like, you don't really know your role because it's not lining up to anything you've seen before. Like there's no TV. Show where you were like, okay, I, this is familiar.

Kara: 35:03

Mm-hmm.

Gina: 35:03

no friend that I saw that was going through this. And so, think you start to feel like, okay, you come to an age where you're like, I, I don't think my family's normal and I

Kara: 35:12

Mm-hmm.

Gina: 35:13

I'm supposed to do. And I think as an older sibling. There's a lot of feelings, and I think it brings confusion because you feel inadequate to know how to help. and of course, 30 years ago there was a lot less resources and awareness and all the things that I, I think, have improved a lot in our world. but I think as a sibling, sometimes feeling helpless and then also sometimes having like even guilt and having needs. And feeling like your needs weren't important because you see a sibling who has obvious and urgent needs, very obvious. so I think that is something happens as a child. A child's understanding with something that is very complex. and knowing your role and your part in that I think can add to some confusion. So that's kind of a, a glimpse into that world. And, you know, if I was to give just a recommendation

Kara: 36:08

Mm-hmm.

Gina: 36:08

back to my 12-year-old self now as an adult looking back, and if I was to say, okay, as a, and I'm a mom, okay, what could a mom do or a parent do? I think telling your child that their words are like gifts and. They, they can see their sibling as having those very urgent or obvious needs, but it doesn't change that their needs are important too, and that you wanna hear them and You want them to use their words to gift you the information so that you can know that those become obvious and you can talk with them, and there's nothing that they can share or have a fear about, or be disappointed about, or be embarrassed about, or be curious about. That is not okay to share. And so just, that's a, I think a huge thing when I reflect just on being a child.

Kara: 36:57

Mm-hmm.

Gina: 36:58

I think my mom actually did that very well. And

Kara: 37:01

Mm-hmm. Yeah. I'm finding as I'm listening to your story,'cause I'm parenting, three siblings of, of Levi and their ages 17, 13, and eight. And it's tricky too because it is also something that I don't share publicly exactly what my kids are going through because. Who would wanna have that on, you know, like, hello. but what you've spoken about in terms of it's not fair, the guilt, the jealousy, it's the lived experience that I think a lot of us are having as moms and like, what do we do all with all this when we ourselves are not always knowing the answers and how do we emotionally support ourselves? So thank you for putting that in there in terms of kind of what you would go back and, and the language that you gave us in terms of helping our kids see that their words are gifts. And I, I really like that way of looking at it. I wanna drill in a little bit more, even from your expertise and your lived experience. And so this is for the mom whose child comes to them and says, I hate my sibling. I wish they were never born. They're ruining my life. would you say both from your professional and personal experience to support that mom in supporting that child?

Gina: 38:15

Well first I think, I think listening and also letting them know that you can see how they're feeling is very real and that it is a lot of big emotions in that moment, and think not defending. Why they shouldn't feel that way is one of the first steps. Making sure that we are making that a very safe space. And tell them that in this moment, thank you for sharing that. This is a safe place for you to share anything you're feeling, even if what you're feeling, you think you shouldn't say. So that's number one. Let them be heard. Let them know that what they're feeling is very, very real. But then remind them of, let's just think about some other, some good things that we've experienced. are some good things that have happened this year? Right? What? What do you remember this interaction? Do you remember giggling over it? Right? Just kind of like bring to present, to just, we can have two emotions at one time, right? So let's go ahead and let's also remind ourselves of some truths. So that we're not just having one set of truth, right? So we wanna bring in some factual information that helps us kind of, our kiddos regulate. Okay. I

Kara: 39:28

Mm-hmm.

Gina: 39:29

you're right. These were three good things. These were three good memories. and saying things can be hard, but things can also be good at the same time. so then steps of what, what can we do to address the pieces that are hard and that might be going to seek counseling for the kiddo who has a sibling. I think, you know, I always suggest and endorse that. and I think it's so important because especially at a young age, I think kids are very and sometimes don't even how to articulate their understanding of the disability. Of their sibling because they hear names, they hear complicated factors, and they make a lot of assumptions that may not be factual at all. And I can actually give you an example of this, that I and a sibling that we were working with had shared in confidence that they thought that their sibling had a diagnosis because of something they had done.

Kara: 40:25

Oh wow.

Gina: 40:26

their sibling was little, they had fallen off of something.

Kara: 40:30

Mm-hmm.

Gina: 40:30

the, and she never told her mom. She just

Kara: 40:33

Mm-hmm.

Gina: 40:33

siblings sit back up, you know, like a little toddler would do, or,

Kara: 40:36

My gosh.

Gina: 40:37

this

Julie: 40:37

sad.

Gina: 40:38

was caring that I think I gave my sibling the disability because of that interaction, because They're perceiving this through a childlike interpretation, right? And so, and perspective and being able to like let them know that this has nothing to do with, that was a huge release. And so when you listen to your kids and you are able to help build those truths and facts, I think it helps them build a better understanding of something that's confusing.

Kara: 41:10

Yeah, and I think, I mean there's so many different facets of all of these conversations, both for us and as we support these children. Thank you for sharing. That's super useful. And let's look at a different scenario really. test you here and there. Not test you. That's not it. let's see. So let's look at a scenario where your child comes to you and says, you don't love me. You only love my sibling, who has a disability, and you only spend time with them. And I wanna add the complexity here where the mom is experiencing. you know, kind of what Julie was describing, nothing left to give her experience is, you're right, I am surviving. I am trying to keep your sibling alive, and you're right. I don't have anything to give to you. she may not say that externally, but where would you meet her in that moment?

Gina: 42:04

Well, I think. For the mom is that you need community, you need care, you need support, and you have to find that for yourself because the reality is you're not gonna give anything to your kiddos if you're empty. so you have to have a,

Julie: 42:19

Yeah.

Gina: 42:21

honestly, a commitment. Because sometimes you don't feel like going, sometimes you don't feel like showing up. So you have to start with, I'm committing to myself that I'm going to go and make sure I am filled and full enough that I can spill over to my children. Because kids are hard on all facets. Right? And there's curve balls. And you know, one of the things we say is like, this is the first time I'm doing this too. We've only lived as long as our experience has been. And these, the years forward are our first time doing a lot of things we're about to do. So we can't always be the experts, of everything.'cause we're living a lot of things for the first time. And so when a kiddo and a sibling comes up and you start having that interaction, I think one of the things, again, listening, not bringing shame to those things. You can also, if you're not filled up in that moment, I, I do think you can say, this is so important to me. I hear what you were saying, and this is so important. Let's set aside a time later tonight that I wanna sit down and talk to you about this. So I also think we don't have to rush into having all the right words in a moment. We can hear our children validate their feelings, and then, Hey, I'm, I'm gonna get back with you on that. I think that circling back is a good strategy versus maybe ending up saying the things that you wish you wouldn't have said. so I think that's a strategy. And then I also always want kids to tell, again, bringing facts in truths. Let's list truths. I see that you're feeling that way, but you can have, there can be two real things at the same time. yes, mom maybe is paying more attention to sibling or makes, you know, whatever actions are happening. But again, bringing up those goods, what would tell you that those assumptions are not the same as some of the facts we know, which is, let's talk about what happened last week. Can you think of anything that I did that would show you. I love you.

Kara: 44:23

Mm-hmm.

Gina: 44:24

again, naming like those three things that combat that insecurity piece, not that those are invalidating, but just making sure that we're seeing a full picture.

Kara: 44:35

Yeah. I think the trick is right, is not to devalidate. But to actually help that child or whoever you're speaking to, reframe and re story, their interpretation of what has happened or not happened. So, thank you. Thank you for playing that fun little game with me. Yes, you can.

Gina: 44:53

Okay. I think it's also important that we let the kid, we are guiding the kids to the answers. It's not super helpful to be like, well, remember I did this, I did this, I did this, I did this, and that all says I love you. I think it's important

Kara: 45:06

Good one.

Gina: 45:06

them and let them say it out loud, because that's gonna be more meaningful, even if they have long pauses in between. It's okay.

Kara: 45:14

Yeah, no, that super good point. And I'm so glad that you made sure to add that. Well, I also love your, direction towards community, your call for moms to get into community, not just from this little scenario I just painted, but I think that's been weaved throughout this conversation I wanna call out a a point that you just put in about commitment and you kind of said, commit to something. Sometimes in the moment we don't feel like it, and at this particular moment in my life, it just is resonating. So. Accurately to me.'cause I had made some commitments in my life that, for long story short, made me do more things than I would've done had I not had the commitment. And was it confronting? Was it challenging? Did I wanna quit? Yes, I did. But on the other side of fulfilling that commitment, I am so glad I didn't. And so. My little coaching brain is just like firing like, oh my gosh, like this is incredible to see what commitment, what power, commitment has. And so I wanna use this as a launch point to talk about the possibility of committing to going to a retreat. And so let's talk about. The labeled in Love retreat that is coming up. So we have a little strategy ladies, in the timing of this podcast because there is still time to look at your calendar and to sign up and to make it happen. So I will let you guys decide who wants to, well, you guys can both talk about it, but first, let's talk about what is the retreat. You talked a little bit about it, but like when is it, who is it for, and how does one sign up?

Julie: 46:56

Absolutely it is for moms of kids with disabilities. So any age, diagnosis, you are welcome at our retreat. And so it is just for the mom. The mom will show up this year. It is October 10th through 12th and it is in Dallas. And so we actually have moms. Well, we serve 144 diagnoses. And we have moms that come from 37 states and we've actually had moms fly from, as far as Guam, like that was a

Kara: 47:23

Guam. That's incredible.

Julie: 47:25

to our retreat. So it's, it is a much needed thing. It is a very special, and we consider a sacred thing because this space, we know how hard they work to get here. And so it will be in Dallas, Texas, which is our home base. The location changes every single year. And we do have tickets available and we have extra special fun things coming this year, which I can share what we're doing on Friday night. It was a big surprise and we just were able to reveal it to our mamas yesterday. So I can share now. But we are having Miguel and Kelly Cervantes come and do a dinner theater. And so Miguel was Hamilton on Broadway for years and years

Kara: 48:00

Oh wow.

Julie: 48:01

and Yeah. And they have

Kara: 48:03

Yeah,

Julie: 48:04

Yeah. Broadway of New York.

Kara: 48:05

the Broadway.

Julie: 48:06

Yeah, we talked about the two, the sharing of the two feelings, the, the joy and pain that can coexist. And so they do this beautiful thing of weaving in song and just sharing their story a little bit of their child who passed and also him being at this top of his career at the same time. So it's

Kara: 48:25

Wow. Wow.

Julie: 48:25

our moms will be able to kind of share that feeling because they've had something similar of holding two things at once. And that's part of our journey, and that's what I love is we don't. Glaze over, just like your podcast. Everything you do here, you're not glazing over the hard stuff. We acknowledge it, but we wanna move forward within it because our lives will be better for it. So the women that come will walk out of the retreat with a new look on life and a new, their couple will be filled and they'll be able to give to their family in a totally different way than they were able to before because there's hope for the first time. And immediately we see that they're bringing that hope to their community. So it

Kara: 49:01

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Okay. Awesome. And. This is different than a lot of retreats that I've been to, because most of mine have been pretty small and intimate. This is gonna be a little bit larger setting from kind of pictures I've seen. give moms a picture of kind of how they'll fit and kind of just a vision of what to expect.

Julie: 49:21

Yeah, well we, first of all, we have, it is gonna be a little bit of a larger group, but we have a Facebook group where we start to get into the

Kara: 49:28

Nice.

Julie: 49:29

to learn. You know, you'll, you'll meet someone from your state. That's a fun thing. You meet someone from your state, you'll meet someone with the same diagnosis as your child. And we find and have chats to do that. But also we have a name tag system where we have little stickers that they're choosing to put on their name tags. So you could be looking throughout the whole retreat to find somebody else. You want someone else that has a 13-year-old boy. Well, you're gonna find that through the name tag system. But we have a connection coordinator in her entire job. From start to finish of the retreat is to ensure that no mama does not walk out without a friend. So we have what we call goal hearts. We do this at our mom's mingles as well, but we. If you have never, you are coming with no one, you don't know anyone at this retreat, you will get a gold heart and you will not be able to be alone. We have special tables for you. We have

Kara: 50:14

we will not let you.

Julie: 50:16

to.

Kara: 50:17

I love it.

Julie: 50:17

put it on there if you wanna be left alone. So you'll walk into a big group, but you, you will sit with a table at the big sessions. We have three big sessions. You will sit with the table and like you said before, you immediately come into a space of no judgment. And you're coming into a space of understanding without saying a word. So when you start the conversation, we aren't starting with, Hey, how are you? You know, how's the weather? We start with, oh my gosh, my child poop smear today. Like,

Kara: 50:46

huh.

Julie: 50:46

start at a different conversation than you would, and so the, relationships form a whole lot faster and you will leave with friends. Do not worry about coming alone or it being bigger because we make it sure that all of the groups are smaller. Even our scavenger hunt that's on the Saturday afternoon is the perfect place to meet friends. We split up in small groups and then you have a shared experience together that you're doing through fun.

Kara: 51:09

Oh my gosh, it sounds so fun. What I'll be doing right after we get off this conversation is looking at my calendar and being like, can I come?

Julie: 51:16

love it.

Kara: 51:16

Okay, well, what I will share is that, we will have any link that would be helpful to sign up or get more, more information. It'll be on the show notes of this episode and likely when I put the episode on the old Instagram. And I just really wanna thank you, both for not just, you know, creating labeled un loved and just being amazing humans, but for this conversation, for showing up. I'll put together, look at both of you looking good, but you know, genuine and, just feel connected to you. And for me, that feels fun. So I'll get to lead this conversation feeling like, man, I met two amazing women today and that was really fun. So thank you for who you are.

Julie: 52:00

I am able Yeah. I also wanted to share if for some reason someone is not able to come to the retreat, we have what we call sisterhood circles, which is support groups that meet monthly across the country. So if you can't find one in your area, we have a virtual one. And you can also start one. We have applications now open to start a circle, and we do everything for you so that in the midst of your special needs parenting, you are able to actually. Start a group because you are trained. We hold your hand the whole entire way from start to finish on how to set up that sisterhood circle. So we would love for those mamas that can't come to the retreat or both to join a sisterhood circle, either virtually or in person in

Kara: 52:38

Okay, awesome. Thank you for sharing that. I'm, I'm glad that we made sure to get the word about that out. And all the information, you'll find it on the show notes. So with that, I will say thank you so much for, coming and we'll see everyone else on the next episode.