The Special Needs Mom Podcast

Caring for Yourself When Behaviors Get Hard with Brittney Crabtree

• Kara Ryska

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This week, I’m back with my friend Brittney Crabtree from Moms Talk Autism for part two of our talk on behaviors that include aggression: physical, verbal, or self-directed.

In this episode, we answer the big question: “What now?” We walk through the framework of pre-game, game time, and post-game recovery. We discuss how to prepare, get through, and recover from the hardest moments as special needs parents.

We share what safety planning looks like in real life, how to stay calm when emotions run high, and how to care for yourself afterward. This one’s about giving yourself grace and finding ways to keep showing up, even when it’s hard.


Get to know Brittney & Moms Talk Autism:

Podcast on Spotify

Podcast on Apple Music

Website

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Brittany Crabtree Instagram

Contact: hello@momstalkautism.com



Speaker 2:

Hi, I am Kara, life coach, wife and mom to four incredible and unique children. It wasn't all that long ago that my son received a diagnosis that had my world come crashing down. I lacked the ability to see past the circumstances, which felt impossible and the dreams I once had for my life and family felt destroyed. Fast forward, past many years of surviving and not at all thriving, and you'll see a mom who trusts that she can handle anything that comes her way and has access to the power and confidence that once felt so lacking. I created the Special Needs Mom podcast to create connection and community with moms who find themselves feeling trapped and with no one who really understands. My intention is to spark the flare of possibility in your own life and rekindle your ability to dream. This isn't a podcast about your special needs child. This is a podcast about you. If you are a mom who feels anxious, alone or stuck, then you are in the right place. Welcome.

Speaker:

Hello and welcome to the Special Names Mom podcast. We're back today with a part two episode that follows last week's conversation. You're gonna hear my co-host Brittany Crabtree from Moms Talk Autism here with me in this episode. And specifically we're talking about when our children have behaviors that include physical, verbal, any type of aggression towards themselves, things. Or others. I do recommend listening to the first episode, kind of, you know, we broke it up into two logistical parts, so I, I do recommend going back to listen to that first and then revisiting this one. But if you like to break the rules, if you're like, don't tell me what to do, I'm here for you too. Welcome. Listen on. Okay, so this being the part two of the episode, we're essentially answering the question. What now? So it's normal for us after we normalize that our children have these behaviors that they can behave in these ways. What and how do we cope? So I think we say it in the episode, but this really is just the tip of the iceberg. We are just providing a very small framework to orient you towards the. Work that is available for us special needs moms to do. And rather than letting the clutches of perfectionism grip me into submission into not releasing this episode, because it doesn't have everything that I wanna say and you know, do about this particular topic, we're gonna just do what we can and we're gonna start with this singular conversation with myself and Brittany, and we're gonna just let it be enough for right now. So with that, let's get into the episode.

Kara:

Hello and welcome to the Special Needs Mom podcast and

Brittney:

moms talk autism. Woo.

Kara:

I'm Kara. You're Brittany. Do you wanna introduce yourself real quick personally?

Brittney:

Sure. Hi. Yes. Hi. I am so glad to be here. I am Brittany. I am from the Moms Talk Autism podcast. I am one of four. Posts on there. I don't know what you wanna call us. We're just friends, poor friends who happen to have microphones. We record episodes on there as well. Very similar to what Kara is doing here at this wonderful podcast and talking about all things neurodivergent. We're all neurodivergent caregivers for our. Our kids. We have ages and genders and you know, spectrums and diagnoses there. And we have professionals on sometimes, but a lot of times it's just us moms and caregivers and dads sometimes too. And we just talk about all the good, the bad, and the ugly that comes with special need parenting. So.

Kara:

I think you're, you guys nailed it on your name. Moms Talk Autism. Yeah, I mean, short and sweet. It's simple like, you know, it's a good one.

Brittney:

Thank you.

Kara:

And I, and likewise, my podcast is the Special Needs Mom podcast. Not because I'm the only special needs mom, but it's because that's what we talk about being, is the, is being the experience of being a special needs mom. Uh, it's not diagnosis specific, so we have a whole. Cornucopia of diagnosis that, that my listeners experience in terms of what they are a caregiver to and for and yeah. So my podcast is about supporting the mom behind the caregiving, and we have a coaching lens that is my profession. That's the lens which I bring to conversations. And of course my lived experience. I am a mother of four. Yeah, my children range from age 18 to eight, and my 16-year-old is my special needs child. He's a child that has inspired me to learn more than I ever thought I was capable of. And he's a multiple brain, right?

Brittney:

Yeah,

Kara:

right.

Brittney:

They tend to do that.

Kara:

They do that, they do that. I think, you know, jokes aside, I do think it is, is one of the gifts of being a special needs mom for autism, mom, it has required me to really figure out who I am and that is a gift. Would I trade it? I would,

Brittney:

we can unpack that later. Yeah.

Kara:

Yeah. Well, no, I think I would, I would figure out another way, but Yeah. Um,'cause in our, I know what you mean, situation. My son was not born with his disabilities. My son has endured many surgeries. Treatment, I, I think I meant, I, I can't remember if I mentioned it. He's a multiple brain tumor survivor, and so that is where we land in terms of, if we could give them. Not him. If we could give the diagnosis back, we would.

Brittney:

Of course.

Kara:

And so I think that's a good little warmup of who we are.

Brittney:

Did

Kara:

we forget anything?

Brittney:

Well, I, I'm a mom of four as well. Uh, I have two who have been diagnosed with autism, but on opposite ends of that spectrum. And we, we will talk about some more specifics about what that is maybe for each of them as we go into our discussion here. But I have a neurotypical. And then my oldest, my, the ranges are 21, 18, 17, and 11 for my kids. My oldest has a DHD. So we have a variety of diagnoses and a variety of ages and abilities, challenges, et cetera here. And my children were born with their disabilities. So it's, there's a little bit of a difference there as well. And I don't necessarily, it, it's a tricky. I never want to speak for my children. I don't speak for as an autistic person myself or as a neurodivergent person myself. I am not, but I can speak to the caregiving of, and that's what we focus on on my podcast, and that's what you're doing here too. Like, and I, I wanna make that very, very clear that if you want to hear what an actually autistic person feels, go speak to one. I can give my perspective on it. But I can really only speak to the caregiving side of it on the personal level myself. So if it ever comes across that way, I just wanna make sure, you know, I, I'm, I'm trying to speak as mom, as the mom, not as the

Kara:

autistic

Brittney:

person.

Kara:

It's very important, the distinction. And I think that is the space that actually we're creating for us here is for the caregiver, right? So. My son is an individual and, and he actually is also diagnosed with autism. Yes. Um, I think we have a, what I call acquired autism. Not that it matters because his brain isn't like, is a, what is the word I'm looking for, is different. As a result of his experience. And so we live with a lot of the similar experiences. Yeah. But just to reiterate what the point you made, which I think is so important, is like we're not speaking for one, we're also not speaking for all moms. This is our correct us two moms, we're having this experience with caregiving. These are the things that we're gonna talk about today, are things that have worked for us. We. Are not studied experts in all aspects of this topic. We are just two moms and we have our opinions and we have our experience, but I just, I think we wanted to make sure that we are very explicit as it relates to the perspective that we are bringing to this conversation. Anything to add to that, Brittany?

Brittney:

No, I think that that really covers it. This is maybe. Helpful information and whether we hope it applies to you and that it's helpful for you, but if it isn't, it's maybe still good to know. And then you need to maybe keep looking to find what is applicable to you. So

Kara:

yeah,

Brittney:

just keep that

Kara:

in mind. And I think between you and I, we have a very different experience. Your son, your oldest son, who is non-speaking, my son is very speaking, and so it's a different, you know, there's a lot of different nuances to it, but I think. The things that we're gonna talk about today will actually still be really helpful for, for all of it. And so do we wanna do a short recap of episode one? Like, I guess, you know, we haven't even talked about what we're really talking about in this episode. Yeah. So, and of course it was very fitting. We intended on recording this the same day we recorded part one, but like a few minutes into the. To the conversation. I get one of those calls from school. So

Brittney:

do you feel like your body like clench up when that happens? Do you feel This

Kara:

particular one I did. Yeah. Because it was a call from the nurse.

Brittney:

Mm-hmm.

Kara:

And the particular things that she was saying can mean very serious things very quickly for us. Yes, yes. We have a lot of medical components in our profile. And I think, I don't remember exactly what she said and how she said it, but I mean it was actually kind of funny that you got to witness. You probably see, I, I got

Brittney:

to hear half the least. Yeah.

Kara:

Yeah. Half of it. Oh, we actually probably have it on recording. I should go play and look through it. No, I don't need to relive it, but no, it was scary. Yeah, I think it's like, it can be, it's one of those things where like I am pretty good at like keeping a, I'm actually am a person that does it very well. Well in emergencies. I've been tested a lot lately in that, and I perform like I can stay very focused and very level-headed. But that doesn't mean that there's that low level of like deep fear of like, what if this, what if that? And so I think I knew we were kind of still on the good zone here on this, on this particular issue that I was being called for, but. We were teetering on the edge of, are we where, where do we need to go and what do, how do I need to act here? And so in this case, we decided to act expeditiously in terms of us stepping in to be the primary caregiver and not have the school be in charge. And thankfully, it was a false alarm and we were all. False alarms all day. Yeah, I'll take it. I'll take it. And yet that is, I think I was like, well, it's very fitting that we had to reroute.'cause that is, yes, that is a lot like, you know, essentially even what we're talking about today. Like it's a lot about tending to what is in the moment, dealing with it, and then looking around and picking up the pieces from there. So what else do we wanna do in terms of a recap from episode one? So basically episode one we talked about the experience of. Being a caregiver who has a child or an adult who they are caregiving for, who has violent episodes or who has violence as part of their profile. That can be language, that could be personal self-harm, that could be other harm. I don't know what we call that.

Brittney:

Harm to harm towards yourself or harm. Harm to others. Yeah. Thank

Kara:

you.

Brittney:

Yeah,

Kara:

and, and then everything there in between. And so we talked about that and just kind of giving a picture of. Both our experiences and I think also just normalizing and validating that if you're having this experience, you're not alone and kinda giving you some, I don't know, something to grasp on a little bit. What else did I miss there?

Brittney:

Yeah, I think, I think that really covered it. It is about understanding that. It is very isolating in the moment. It can be extremely isolating because usually you can't get immediate help. Maybe sometimes you can, and maybe you do need to call, whether that's, you know, a spouse or a neighbor or a. Even, you know, 9 1 1, you might have to do that and receive that actual physical help in that traumatic experience or episode, but at the same time, there's a lot of repercussions for that that come after. And we'll talk about that some more, of course. But there's a lot of layers involved. And then, and then how many times you experience that happening Can. Influence maybe future episodes or even how you look back at, at, in, you know, the past and your own physical reactions to things. It's, it's, there's a lot of ripple effects from one incident or many incidences. And I think we both have had many incidences that we can speak about, so, yeah.

Kara:

Yeah, and I think as you're describing this, I think I wanna emphasize that we're talking about this because this is a place that I think we both firmly believe. That we as caregivers need care in.

Brittney:

Yes.

Kara:

And, and so we, we've broken the conversation down into kind of the framework of what we're calling pre-game game time and post-game recovery. And we're going to each speak to different parts of those phases, we'll call them. But the phases I think are helpful to give us as caregivers. The action plan of what do we need to do and what do we need to focus on?

Brittney:

Mm-hmm.

Kara:

Given that this is our life

Brittney:

mm-hmm.

Kara:

Or part of our life, and kind of give us that. I, I mean, let's go with the game analogy. Give us the playbook. And so that's kind of how we've broken it down. So you ready to get into pre-game?

Brittney:

Yeah. Let's get into pre-game real, real quick. I wanted to say as well that whether you're dealing with a violent episode with a child or it's grief or some other trauma, that your reactions to those things can be very. What am I trying to say here? It is based a lot on your own personal experiences too, like may, maybe your own childhood or other experiences you've had before these things started happening to you with your own kid. So you have to take that into consideration as you're moving forward. I'll speak on some more on it, but anyway, just, just wanted to, you know, that you need to take that into consideration when you're looking at the whole picture and, and how that may be affecting what's happening to you currently.

Kara:

Yeah. And that's where I think we just can't emphasize enough the, the onion layers here. Yeah. And I feel like, oh my gosh, like again, we, we joked at the last time we talked about this, we're like, maybe this is actually a whole nother actual podcast because there are so many, it could many things to talk about it. So just please know we're scratching the surface here. And I think our hope is that this episode will inspire you to think a little bit more intentionally about what you need. Individually and what you need as a family. So

Brittney:

yeah, and the, the whole idea of maybe like breaking it down into these three, the pre-game game time and post is also, it's a matter of just like with any trauma, right? It, it's very reaction and there's a lot of emotions and reactions to it in your body. If you can break those things down and name those things, give it a name, then you are able to process it. Maybe not faster, but maybe more effectively and you're able to respond in a way that you would prefer instead of just reacting to things. So that's the reason why we're breaking it down, like who care, like post, like who cares what, what stage I'm in. Well, there's a real reason for it and I'm sure you'd go through a lot with that, with your coaching and, and professionals do that as well. So, yeah.

Kara:

Yeah, it's well said. Okay. So let's define pregame. What do we mean by Pregame, essentially it's the time between the incident happening or what we could call the event. and so it's kind of the time between, and it's a vague time, right? So there's not like a black and whiteness to this. It's gonna be a little bit of a. You might not even realize you're in game, pregame. But basically it's the time that you can be intentional about preparing and expecting that the event will come. And so I think one of the key elements of pre-game is accepting that you're gonna be playing this game. Accepting that this is gonna happen, that maybe nothing you can do at this point can stop it. And so then you can see how that kind of. Invites other questions. Okay. Given that it's gonna happen, what do I need to do about it? Who do I need to be about it? And so one of the basics here, we're gonna just go basics is like this, immediate safety planning. And Brittany, I'll have you kind of speak to this in terms of how you think about that given, you know, your space and the beings, in your living space and the kind of how you approach that.

Brittney:

Okay. Yeah. So when you have your first violent incident with your child, whether that's towards themselves or your, you know, physical space, you know, it might not be towards a person, but they could be damaging your property or even towards you. Me that first time. You're probably not prepped. You probably didn't have an e pregame. the thing just happened and now okay. We've, we've worked through that and we've come back down in whatever capacity that is. And you're not in the trauma currently. Okay. gonna look around, okay, what do I do? This might happen again. And, and in our cases it's happened multiple times. you start looking around in your physical space, usually it's your home. You're gonna start in your home and you're gonna figure out, okay, do I minimize the risk or the minimize this kind of thing happening again. And this is where. Pros, we'll talk about post game. When you've worked for some of that post game, you, you kind of have to do that first before you can bring yourself to maybe look ahead a little bit, and you have to really, maybe have a little bit of an imagination. And start thinking of other scenarios that maybe didn't happen exactly like last time because no, no incident is exactly the same. and think outside the box a little bit. no one wants to do this, just to be clear. Like no one wants to think, okay, I am looking around my house. What ways can I imagine my child harming themselves? In my kitchen. You know, no one wants, it's not fun, but it's really important to do that, because it most likely, you know, it, there's a high chance if, if you're having these incidences come up and up again, they're, they're gonna continue at least until you can come up with, you know, whether that's a med change or, or some other. therapies or things to help you. So, yeah, as far as like what we do for my son, so my 18-year-old son is non-speaking autistic and a lot of other diagnoses too, which I've talked about in the first episode a bit. He, does all of these things. He's non-speaking, so we do not get the verbal lash back that Kara can speak to. But the other three we do, he harms himself. He can harm other people if he is provoked or, in such dire sensory overload that I don't think he's even present. We talked about that in the first episode as well. I don't think he realizes that he's hurting me or is trying to hurt me. so it's not a premeditated Nasty. Kind of like, you know, it, it's not purposeful. and then he can also damage property. So those three things are very, real and can happen often and without much, provocation on our part. It just, sometimes it comes completely out of the blue. so I have become very good about reading his body language, and been a study. I have a doctorate in Austin.

Kara:

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Brittney:

the supreme expert and authority on him, even more so than my husband because I am the one who stays home with him. And that may be reversed for you and your spouse or your partner. but in my case, I am the primary caregiver at home. When he gets home from school and things, it's me. So I am very in tune with his body language, with his proclivities, with reading him. In a variety of different ways that aren't verbal. And so I look to that first, as a way to kind of pregame, like he gets home from school and I'm assessing the situation immediately. How, what are we doing? Do we think we're hungry? How are we like? How is the set of his shoulders, how is he responding to me being in his space and, and vice versa. So I do a lot of pregame that way. And then, I, if I realize if I get a note from the teacher or if I know that we had a rough morning before school, for instance, I will look around my space. Austin tends to spend most of his space. We kind of have a great room situation where it's kitchen and like a TV room together. And then Austin's room is just down the hallway. He's on the first floor of our house. I assess that immediate space first. I, before he arrives home from school, will get his bed ready. if we need to change the sheets or set anything up, clean up the space a little bit. We have a tendency to, to strip a lot of clothing and to not be clothed fully in the house. And that is a safe space for him to do that. And I allow him to do that because that's what he wants and he feels most comfortable doing. So there's laundry, there's. Things to kind of set up. he likes to spend some time in his bed when he gets home. he probably just needs to come down from school. It's a

Kara:

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Brittney:

we get the bed ready. I, I get his iPad set up. sometimes I will have the kitchen prepped with a snack for him because he needs, sometimes he's super hungry right when he gets home. Austin spends a lot of time in our hot tub outside I will get that warmed up for him. So there's pre-game that way. And that's not necessarily because. I am worried about him damaging any of those things, but I'm trying to get him. To a place of, calm and, and so we, I, I'm trying to prevent, I guess, those incidences

Kara:

Mm-hmm.

Brittney:

right. In that sense. Now, as far as like setting up my home and my space, yeah. I don't make sure I, I try to keep the clutter very minimum if he tends to throw a lot of stuff. So I don't have a bunch of stuff out on the counter right when he gets home, because that's when we're, we might. Throw a plate or a toy across the room and, you know, we've had, we've had to replace windows in our house, like that. certainly wall damage and toys and, and shoes and all sorts of things. So try to, try to not give him as many opportunities to maybe express himself in that way. so yeah, that's some of the things. I don't know. I feel like I'm speaking a lot, so,

Kara:

Yeah, no, it's, no, it's wonderful. And and now I just have to say, like, I hear how you show up and, the way that you create this space for him. And I just feel like it's a beautiful expression of your love for him in terms of getting the iPad ready, getting his space ready. And yes, you don't want him to have a meltdown. However, I think it's just really beautiful to hear it. So

Brittney:

Well, thank

Kara:

thanks for sharing.

Brittney:

and it is something that is developed over time. You're not gonna just wake up one day and have. All of this, like down pat, just with, with any routine you have. Like you build it and you kind of tweak it and you figure it out. And a year from now I might be prepping things different. so it's always evolving and changing and it took me a long time to kind of come to this. To our routine now, we have things that are permanently set too. Like we have many locks on all of our doors. Our pantry is locked, my laundry room is locked. We have multiple, every, all of our entries out into the front of the house, onto the street have key pads instead of a

Kara:

Mm-hmm.

Brittney:

like bolt that you turn. there's things like that in my home that are necessary for his safety as well as the safety of others around him. And so that is also pre-game. That's a lot. It's like more prep. It's like you have to have a professional, maybe install a lock or something for you. It's not something, I'm just not like cleaning up the space. But those kinds of things are just as important. Some people have to like hide their knives or their sharp objects. some people have, I've had who, Will I, I've heard of children. We don't have animals or pets ourselves, but like where pets need to be removed from certain places in the home because they can be, hurt in some way. So, you know, just things like that to think about.

Kara:

Yeah. And so I'll add a little bit just kind of giving, another variation of what it looks like. We too, do a lot of the locks. We have, food seeking as part of our profile. So all of our food is all locked away. I also have a lock on my office. And I think it, that's not necessarily for the violent, behaviors, but it is for other behaviors that are really frustrating, like having all of my things stolen all the time. And so it gives me a place to have my things that are safe. Is it foolproof? Absolutely not. Because I live with five other people, who are. Half, most, mostly children. So there's a lot of, a lot of, failure in our system, let's put it that way. I'm thinking. Yeah. Anyhow, I'm thinking about stories,

Brittney:

operator error. Yeah.

Kara:

operator error. yeah, that's a great way of saying it, one, I wanted to say, okay, well we can do all the things in the world and we can do them like 10 outta 10. We can have no operator air, and our darlings can still have. Incidents they can still become emotionally, escalated. So that I wanted to put that in the space. And so that's gonna kind of, when we're ready to go over to gain time, we'll talk about what that means. But there was another aspect is, so you had mentioned, hey, I don't think Austin even understands what he's doing, but I wanted to also kind of normalize, That your child might know what they're doing and they might actually. So I, I, I, from my own personal experience, and from, you know, other stories that I can pull from that are anonymous, there's one in particular where this particular child is, is definitely wanting

Brittney:

Mm-hmm.

Kara:

hurt her caregiver. And does that mean anything bad about this child? Absolutely not. It means that that's this child's. Way of communicating and trying to get what they want and need.

Brittney:

Yes.

Kara:

So, but I wanted to kind of put that nuance,'cause that may be the case for you, and if it is, that's just your flavor.

Brittney:

Absolutely aggression in any form is still communication. I

Kara:

Yeah,

Brittney:

It's not socially acceptable communication, but it is communicating something,

Kara:

I.

Brittney:

the intention is there or not. and there are times where Austin is very intentional about it. that tends to be more of the objects and the, Property damage as, as opposed to the hitting, although I can see it in his eyes. And that's, once again, I'm super in tuned with him. I'm the PhD of Austin. Right. So, I can kind of, sometimes it's really hard to tell, but there's times where I can make that call. I can see it in his body language or the way he's. Able to make that kind of eye contact, where he is super mad about something and all of a sudden a plate is flying across the room and he is watching me. He's checking to see if I react, and I know that's intentional because. You're trying to get a reaction out of me, and then there's also like that responsibility of me, am I going to react to this or not? know, I have to make that choice too, so it all of us are in on these hamster wheels of reacting and, and

Kara:

Yeah.

Brittney:

maintain some kind of like So, yeah.

Kara:

Well, and that's, I feel like is a good spot to say where, every person needs to learn how to emotionally regulate themselves. And I think special needs moms need to do it, we need to perform at the highest of high levels because if you think about. Trying to stay emotionally regulated when a plate literally is flying through your living room or even maybe at your head. That is like, I mean, we're talking like this is Olympic level in terms of like the games that we're playing and you know, that's kind of why we're having this conversation is because we. As the caregivers, we need to develop the skills to be able to do this, and it doesn't happen overnight and it never looks perfect. Just to be abundantly clear,

Brittney:

Absolutely.

Kara:

there was one other thing I was gonna mention. Okay. Just in terms of pregame, I think for us it looks more like we do have a ability to anticipate a little bit more. Like we know the things that are pretty upsetting to my child.

Brittney:

Hmm.

Kara:

And he is really quite clever at going for the things that he knows are gonna be the most upsetting. And so what's just crazy about it? He's very, he is very smart. His basketball coach asked the other day, something about,'cause I don't know, he's playing basketball at a, at this, accessible league. And it was so great. And I think his even just the way that he had moved his body in certain ways, like his basketball coach realized, oh, like this kid's really smart because, so Levi? Mm-hmm. Yeah. So Levi, you know, he is what would be, you know, intellectually typical. so he is, pretty good at figuring out the most effective way of communicating how upset he is. And so for us, that looks like, don't deliver news that we know will be hard for him without clearing the space and making sure there's no tables that can be overturned or furniture that he loves to throw. He gets such a big reaction from that. So, I mean,

Brittney:

Naturally. Yeah.

Kara:

right? Like where he doesn't have that part where if I do this, then this will happen. And so it's just incredible the things that one would do when you don't have that part, you know, that's functioning well in your brain. So, pre-game, I think we've covered a little bit here. I mean, actually one last thing, that I'll add and, and I think it's, kind of as it relates. More, I think, to the experience of your family. So this could be for you and you know, your fellow caregiver, a spouse or partner, but also the children that are also living in this home. So I have three typical children that are living in this experience. And so I think it's the part of the pregame is talking about what each of us needs during this time and how we can keep each other safe. And I was telling Brittany before we recorded at one point. When I'd kind of developed this framework, I even broke it down into having like, literally like, names for play calls. Like, you know, in football, how it's like, hey, the, you know, runner guy is gonna go up and hook to the right, or whatever

Brittney:

Yeah,

Kara:

is, except the running back, I don't know what that is.

Brittney:

sure.

Kara:

The running guy is gonna go and do his running thing and he has a certain pattern he's gonna take based on, you know, the call that the coach has made or the quarterback has made, and. I almost think it's actually kind of helpful to think about it in that way to where I can, you know, have a play call that I, in essentially I have an intentional conversation with my children, what I need them to do or what I want them to do when there is an event. And so for my daughter who is eight, it might be I just need you to leave the room, or I would like you to leave the room. She actually has gotten to the point where she's doing this naturally.

Brittney:

Yes.

Kara:

And I have other thoughts and feelings about that in terms of like, oh my gosh,

Brittney:

there's layers to that

Kara:

right? There's layers. There's a lot of layers. but, I think it the, you know, these small intentional conversations can go a long way. And so whatever you decide to name the play, whether it's go to high ground or skedaddle or pineapple, it doesn't matter. But you have intentional conversations where you, As a family group, can talk about how to keep yourself safe, hopefully keep stuff safe, but most importantly, you know, keep our children, safe ish. given that these things will likely happen. So, ready, ready to move on to game time.

Brittney:

Always.

Kara:

Game time.

Brittney:

go.

Kara:

It's game time. You're in, you're in Brittany. And here, the key skill, the key takeaway, the key focus of this, phase is safety and survival. Like all you gotta do is focus on getting through it. It's gonna look a variety of different ways for a variety of different people. and, you know,'cause some of our events are very short and some of them are very long like hours, right? There's not one answer here. So perhaps we talk a little bit about kind of what you have learned in terms of deescalation and communication strategies. How does that sound in terms of starting there?

Brittney:

Sure. Yeah. Deescalation for us can be in a variety of ways, and I think I can delineate between two core. events or situations is public versus at home.

Kara:

Ooh, good one.

Brittney:

so those are handled and, approached very, very differently because in public there are, because I've been able to set my home up and I've had all this pre-game at my home, right? Things are set up a little differently there, and I have more wiggle room, I guess, or I have more. Opportunities or choices and how ID deescalate things at home as opposed to in public. There are a lot more safety concerns and there are a lot more variables that I am not in control of. So, my pre-game, even for being out in public is I am not usually in public with Austin by myself. He is bigger and taller and stronger than I am. He's 18. I'm a pretty short, Not strong person. And so, he takes after his dad and, and my older brothers who are all a lot bigger than I am. And so I have to outings accordingly. And

Kara:

Mm-hmm.

Brittney:

bring backup, backup usually. And when we do go to certain places, there is a lot of pre-game and, cognitive decision making on my part on what is appropriate or what we can handle in that moment. even going to a park, we cannot go to a park where there are a lot of people around. It is too overstimulating for him. And there are too many variables for me to try to avoid or to keep safe. So we have to go to maybe a park that doesn't have. Hardly anyone, preferably no one at, and we can just have the space to ourselves. and that's difficult when you're in public because it's public and it's available for everyone and, and everyone has a right to it, not just me. So, and not just Austin. So yeah, there's a lot of, of things that go into that. And we have had public incidences of safety concerns, in our community around us. and some of them I have been with. My husband or one of Austin's brothers another person. And those I handle much better because I do have backup and I am able to, maintain a certain level of calm. And, once again, this is a muscle that you will develop, but you can, Be present and active and be able to the situation, but also protect and disassociate yourself from it at the same time. And it's complicated and it's a little difficult and it takes practice, but I am pretty good at it now because I've had lots and lots of opportunities to practice. So, I can, Brain in all that emotion and I can just stick to what needs to, we need to do to get through this incident. one of the worst ones we've had recently this year we were at a park. There were only a couple other kids there, but we were maintaining distance and it was fine. And Austin got really, really upset completely outta the blue. I don't know what was wrong, he just collapsed on the ground. purposefully, he threw himself on the ground on purpose and started screaming and crying. Now, if you saw an 18-year-old young man screaming and crying on the ground, that's very, very triggering to someone who does not know anything about my child. He does not look disabled if you just saw him across the

Kara:

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Brittney:

in any, he's, he's walking, he's, you know, there's no physical disability or, or indications that something is. Different about him. And so you see this person screaming and crying and, and rolling on the ground. And he chose a place on the ground where there was an ant hill

Kara:

Oh,

Brittney:

and there were ants crawling all over him. And anytime I tried to get over to help even just

Kara:

Uhhuh.

Brittney:

him, not even to try to make him get up and leave, but

Kara:

Uhhuh.

Brittney:

him off of this anthill, he tried to physically attack me.

Kara:

Yeah.

Brittney:

I. to really disassociate that time and pull back and hold all that emotion. I was also by myself, which

Kara:

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Brittney:

and I had to by him as close as I possibly could without being injured myself

Kara:

Mm-hmm.

Brittney:

and wait,

Kara:

Mm-hmm.

Brittney:

I just had to wait. all I could do. Now, these ants were not biting him. He was, it wasn't like a swarm of bees where he was going to be physically injured in some way. It was just kind of gross and I prob probably felt terrible. and you know, like. Like germs and whatever. We took a shower when, when we got home, trust me. But, you know, just like, ugh.

Kara:

Yeah.

Brittney:

like, I'm thinking in my head like, these, are I gonna get all over in my car when we get out of here? Like, you start spiraling and thinking about all the repercussions of,

Kara:

Yeah.

Brittney:

ants crawl all over you. but I had to wait and it was probably 15, 20 minutes. With me checking in and trying to approach reading his body language. Nope, we're not ready.

Kara:

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Brittney:

and wait. other people getting looks. No one approached me that time. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. Do you need anything? What's wrong? Are you okay? You know, usually they're checking in with me. But, and I appreciate it when people do that, that's fine. but everyone just kind of kept their distance and waited for us to finish. I did not make eye contact'cause that probably would take me out of my disassociation and make me start crying.

Kara:

Mm-hmm.

Brittney:

just waited and he eventually, we worked through whatever it was we. Did a thorough brushing as much as we possibly could, and we got in that car and we got home and took that shower and, and worked through whatever the rest of that was. And that was game time. That was in the park from the minute he dropped to the ground to the second I got home. That was the game time. and it was, that was a really, really difficult, very, you know, traumatic for me

Kara:

Mm-hmm.

Brittney:

So,

Kara:

Well, just highlighting the aspect of game time. That what I, you know, hear is it was actually staying focused, but also staying doing whatever it took for you, which in this case you used the skill of disassociation,

Brittney:

Mm-hmm.

Kara:

or even just the reaction of disassociation, to. Do not, jump in the pool with him and become emotionally escalated. And so, and so that's where it's like that allowed you to survive to get through the time period you needed to get to, to then get to a place where you were no longer in this escalated state or this, event state, we'll call it. So,

Brittney:

And you have to. bottle up whatever you're feeling inside. Because I'm very worried about him in that moment. And I, I'm worried about him. I'm worried about everyone else. I'm worried about him getting injured or being bit or being uncomfortable. but at the same time, I need to be aware of my surroundings. So it's this delicate balance of like. Reigning yourself in and keeping yourself calm, but also being ready to react if the situation changes. And seeing that opportunity of whenever game time is done, the clock has run out, he is ready to move and you have to jump on that chance. For me at least that's how it

Kara:

Mm-hmm.

Brittney:

because then we could possibly spiral into a second round if I don't catch that window of time. and so, yeah, and it's the same situation at home too. I just have more options. If he had thrown himself on the ground and was upset at home, we wouldn't have an ant hill in the middle of the kitchen, hopefully,

Kara:

Mm-hmm.

Brittney:

be grabbing other things

Kara:

Mm-hmm.

Brittney:

himself or do

Kara:

Mm-hmm.

Brittney:

I have either backup at home or I am able to. Physically maneuver him in a way I can like, you know, grab his arm and kind of like half drag him or like kind of push his legs into his room, which is a safe space that, that's part of our pregame. We've set up his room to be a very, very safe space and I can close the doors and he can have his own version of, you know, a timeout or a reset

Kara:

Mm-hmm.

Brittney:

him, and that is much more manageable because of the environment around him. You know, there's more, like I said, there's more control over the surroundings, so.

Kara:

The other thing I wanna highlight is that during this game time, we're calling it. There's a lot of be with what? I'll break it down what I call be with like, you had to be with a lot, you had to be with all the people walking by in terms of be with potentially the thoughts and the, the things that you thought they might be thinking or wondering about you. You had to be with the possibility that Austen was getting like, stung by these ants. Like that's a lot to be with. you know, all the things you mentioned in terms of him. Actually injuring himself. being with, okay, what do I need to do? How do I need to respond to help him complete his cycle here? and I think there's this dance of accepting what is versus resisting. And I think that's where we oftentimes, and I wanna say this, acknowledging that. When we resist, sometimes we have very good reasons for it. Like I'm thinking of like, maybe your child has a knife and Right, and so like, then that's where like I could see the resistance. I could understand very, very easily of why you might not just wait for time to pass, why you might lean in and maybe even be very aggressive when it came to intervening.

Brittney:

opportunity in times where that is

Kara:

And so I'm not saying this as in like, oh, it's all gonna be okay all the time. I, I definitely understand that it's not the case, but maybe in more times than we realize. Just kind of the way that you were describing this particular instance, I think it's helpful to give a picture to it is like accepting Austen's gonna be doing what he's gonna be doing. And my job here is just to. Is to wait, is to accept this is what's happening right now, and to kind of let go. It's like it requires us to be unattached to how long it's gonna be,

Brittney:

Yes.

Kara:

gonna get broken, who's maybe gonna get hurt you know, there's a spectrum of harm, right? Where it's like, I am okay with an amp bite. I'm not so Okay. With like a kitchen knife out there, right? Like,

Brittney:

Yeah.

Kara:

right.

Brittney:

you have to make. And

Kara:

yes,

Brittney:

second.

Kara:

yes. Yeah. Okay. So that is game time. anything else in game time that we haven't mentioned?

Brittney:

What I experience with Austin right now, my game time tends to be a lot of setting up a situation where there, there's the least amount of damage to him or people

Kara:

Mm-hmm.

Brittney:

property and then waiting.

Kara:

Mm-hmm.

Brittney:

seems to work best right now. there are many, many incidences like you mentioned, where that is not necessarily the case and you have to take more of an immediate action, whether that's because you're in public or because. your child is more intentional about maybe some of their violence. if Austin is coming at me to try to hit me, I'm not just gonna stand there and wait, I am going to remove myself from the situation, or I'm going to try to speak to him in a way that maybe be able to snap him out of it just for a sec. Just a second long enough where he maybe is realizing what he's doing

Kara:

Mm-hmm.

Brittney:

or be able to call someone else from the other room or whatever that is. I have options in, in where I do take more action and that's just the season that we're at right now. And so those are the examples that are coming up. it just tends to be, I have found if I try to be too involved and get too in his space, it tends to escalate the situation as opposed to me just giving him the space to work through. And then we. Work on the post game for him and myself, you know, when he's ready and wait for that opportunity, so,

Kara:

Yeah. Now kind of a, a random question, but has there been any form of Technique or tool or like skill-based stuff that school has brought you or taught you that has been actually really helpful in supporting Austin in these moments.

Brittney:

I couldn't tell you a very specific thing. I've certainly viewed him at school, like, like seen him at school in certain situations and modeled some of my behavior, some of that waiting

Kara:

Mm-hmm.

Brittney:

setting up my space. Like the classrooms are done. I, I can glean, you know, I can observe and or ask questions to the teacher and then try to copy some of those things, some of the locks and stuff, you know, some of those practical, logistical things I've found to be very helpful. But as far as like. An approach

Kara:

Yeah. Like the 1, 2, 3 approach that this person wants to teach you. Like, you know, like I'm just, there's just so many things out there, right? And so, and I'm a little maybe skeptical at this point in my life about,

Brittney:

There isn't just one way to do it or there's not like the professional way or the handbook on that.

Kara:

Yeah.

Brittney:

that is applicable to many different situations. I have had, this was right during COVID, so it never happened, but I was getting set up to take a, self-defense is the wrong word, but, a class on, certain kinds of holds and like

Kara:

Mm-hmm. Would that be the one that they train like educators in is, I think it's called CTI or CPI?

Brittney:

I believe it is. Yeah, we're,

Kara:

Yeah.

Brittney:

the teachers and, and special needs teachers, they,

Kara:

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Brittney:

appropriately, physically have to hold or, touch somebody where it is the safest way possible for them and you without, damage, you know, keeping yourself safe, but also not hurting.

Kara:

Mm-hmm.

Brittney:

and, you know, there's other professionals, you know, maybe, you know, I'm sure first responders and things also can go, go through that training and if they aren't, they should be on how to do those kinds of things. So I was getting ready to set up all that and then, you know, everything got shut down and I never followed through. But, that would be possibly something to look into in your area. I have not pursued it again we took some different routes and we've had a deescalation with some of those more violent behaviors towards myself, that I haven't felt the need to seek it out again. it's always there and it's always something that I am keeping in the back of my mind.

Kara:

Yeah. And that is, it is CPII looked it up while we're talking and I knew of that one because it is what I had requested that all of my child's, people at school be trained in. there are chart, they, well, it's his old school, for the reasons that, his behaviors, In the vein of, violence, had him no longer be a fit for the other school. So the CPI training, that's what it's just to be abundantly clear. Something to research. Okay? And I think it is mostly for teachers and professionals, however, you know what, we're professionals. So there's that. Okay, now let's move to post game recovery. And. it's funny'cause actually when I talk about this framework, I usually actually talk about post-game recovery first because we only really are talking about these things when something has happened, right? Like there'd be no, like, if there wasn't a game that we had played, like we wouldn't be like, you know,

Brittney:

It

Kara:

so

Brittney:

game.

Kara:

anyhow, yeah, just note that we're talking about them as if they go in this particular order, but they do not. And so this is where I think, This is where you as the caregiver are basically, it's like post-game recovery has nothing to do with your child. Yes. Maybe there's gonna be some trainings that you do and maybe some conversations that you have. but what I have my eye on here is how do you recover as a caregiver

Brittney:

Right,

Kara:

given what you just went through and so you, talked about in this game time, most recent event or recent ish event that you had talked about. you talked about, you bubbled the emotion and so I guess the question is, one would say, okay, well then what do you do with this emotion when you're in post-game?

Brittney:

Yeah, you can't disassociate and bottle things up without consequences.

Kara:

Yeah, yeah.

Brittney:

okay. I'm willing to make that trade in that moment

Kara:

Yes. I.

Brittney:

do to survive. But then there are always repercussions. And, you, there's variety of different ways to handle those repercussions. And I have handled some things correctly and not over the years. I'm still learning and it, there's a lot of factors involved. So, even maybe. You might have one good instance where you really are able to recover fairly quickly or in a, in what you would consider a healthy way, that's great, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's gonna happen next time. So just kind of keep that in mind. but there's like the physical recovery of my actual body, and as I get older that time it takes longer for that to happen sometimes. There's many different ways to do it. I am not against, and, and I'm a big proponent of just a good old fashioned cry. Let that emotion out. Let it go. It's okay to do that. And, in whatever way that happens for you. Mine tend to be, loud, sob in a very short amount of time. I, I

Kara:

I love it.

Brittney:

I'm not really a crier per se. I, I

Kara:

Yeah.

Brittney:

sniffle for a half of a day.

Kara:

You know, I, I appreciate that you said that'cause I've never really thought about that, but I was like, yeah, I'm not a cry all day. Like for me, my style is not cry all day, but it is. Big, and it is definitely a lot going on when it's happening. Yeah. A little storm burst. It's very intense.

Brittney:

then it's

Kara:

okay. That's interesting. Yeah.

Brittney:

that's, that's just me

Kara:

Everybody, yeah. Different styles. Okay.

Brittney:

and then there's a lot of internal dialogue and monologuing in my head after that. And I need to work through that first before I am ready to talk to someone else about

Kara:

Mm-hmm.

Brittney:

And I highly encourage you to find someone or someones multiple people who are available to talk about these things with. I think it's very, very important to do that. But you need to be ready to do that and it can vary that time lapse can vary for me. I am very fortunate that I have a partner and spouse who I feel comfortable sharing with and feel. Responsible, like it is appropriate for him to know about all of these things in detail because not only because he's my partner and I rely on him and I trust him, and he can offer that support, but because it's important for him to know what's going on in the house when he's not there, we need, and he needs to do the same for me, it's, it's both of us. if I happen to be gone and he experiences one of these, I need the details. Because it helps me in my next pregame. so yes, I always, my spouse, I have my parents, I have friends, you know, a, a couple local people that I feel comfortable, if I needed to say. Sometimes I need to remove myself from the space. I can call my friend Natalie and say, I need to go get a treat and I need someone to talk to. And she'll be like, okay, I'm picking you up in 15 minutes. She's one of my people. She can do that. and. I highly recommend finding, once again, more than one if you can, person just, just in case, you know, people are busy, have their own lives, but to have that in my back pocket and know she would do that for me, you know, in pretty much any situation, she'll drop everything and, and come help me. And not to abuse that, of course, either, but, it's there and just, even though I might not even use it, but just knowing it's there makes a huge difference. It

Kara:

Uhhuh, yes.

Brittney:

I will, Go take a scalding hot shower sometimes.

Kara:

is this safe? This feels like very s sculpting.

Brittney:

Scalding, scalding. I like, like, like almost too hot to touch. Like, just, just for a little bit

Kara:

Yeah.

Brittney:

just physically like get my muscles to unc

Kara:

Mm-hmm. Yes.

Brittney:

is very, that's a physical thing I can do. just, and even just removing myself to a different room. We have a two story home. He's downstairs. I'm upstairs. Just that physical like. can

Kara:

Mm-hmm.

Brittney:

difference sometimes. is there anything else, you want me to cover with physical or should I move on

Kara:

I'll, I'll add a couple. I'll add a couple and then, yes. Yeah, let's keep going.

Brittney:

here too, but yeah, go ahead. Oh yeah. Breath work's a big thing.

Kara:

Yeah. So let's see. So, and I thought, oh, this is so fun.'cause I feel like everyone has developed all their own like styles and strategies and things that work. And I think what I wanna emphasize here is there's no, I mean, we already said it. There's no one size fits all. Some things you're gonna love and some things are just not going to to resonate. Here's also what I'll say is I, you know, I think Brittany's mentioned this word a number of times and the word is practice some of these things you're going to do and you'll be like, eh, didn't really do much. Right? But. Practice because your body, if you have been doing this for a long time and not been tending to it, your body's not gonna know how it even feels to let go of the energy that you have to hold onto to like survive the moment. So just recognize that just because you don't feel like a magical change and everything's all better, it doesn't mean it's not working. So you, it's almost like you gotta step out and like walk in faith and like look at like, doing it for a month or, or longer to actually then see if what you're doing is working. So, it's interesting, you're like, I have this internal monologue that you kind of have to deal with before you are ready to talk to people.

Brittney:

kind of reliving it almost

Kara:

huh.

Brittney:

to like kind

Kara:

Replaying it through. That's interesting.

Brittney:

Yeah.

Kara:

then, yeah, so for me, a lot of times, and I don't, it's not like a, I do the same thing every time. It's different a lot.

Brittney:

either.

Kara:

One thing that's been really effective for me is if I've had something that's really upsetting to me happen, I write, and so I literally just write what happened. I write the stories and sometimes I'll narrate a little bit of like, this person was thinking that, and like, sometimes I will, but really it's just writing it. And I think it's my way of reliving it, just like you were saying, but in a way, in a place that I'm safe and I can process the emotion. And so it's almost like it allows my brain to like, to connect with all the parts that were really, really scary. so that I can kind of like, yeah. Again, emotionally process it. the other thing that can be like that kind of is a more of a frontline supporting my body is this exercise I call shaking and dancing. Now shaking and dancing. I first learned from a book called Transforming Trauma, and the author is James Gordon. So it's a book I recommend, but he talked about this little, little thing that he teaches people. And this isn't all aspects of trauma. And what I love about it is that you don't wanna be a trauma professional to teach this to people and to do it and to have it be very effective. And it's literally what it says it is. It is shaking. Dancing. And when I say shaking, this is not just like I wanna shake around. This is like shaking your body. Like,

Brittney:

off. Shake it off.

Kara:

oh, you could, you could definitely do it to music, but like, you know, and actually there is this, there's a meditation that I do that actually kind of walks you through it all.

Brittney:

Okay.

Kara:

But it literally is almost like I want you to picture yourself or picture a tribal dance where people are stomping and like really just moving their body almost violently. This is the like the kind of shaking I'm talking about. And what you're doing is you're literally shaking the energy out of your body that you, we don't realize that you've held in and you'll feel silly. You will. You'll also feel at the end of the cycle of shaking, you'll feel connected to your body and you, you guys see where we're going with this, right? So Brittany said, I disassociate on purpose and she fully empowers that. And I think that's brilliant. And yet the impact of staying in a disassociated state is that you are unconnected to everybody, but also to yourself. And so the shaking completes the nervous system cycle. just like if you can picture like a cute little baby deer that like almost got caught by a lion, like in a nature scene, what does it do?

Brittney:

Those are, I can't, I can't watch

Kara:

Right?

Brittney:

Yeah. I know

Kara:

But what does it do when it gets up? It shakes a little bit. It twitches a little bit. That is the cute little deer doing the same exact thing. We're just doing it on purpose versus by, you know, their nature. So shaking and dancing is something that is very effective. Yeah.

Brittney:

I could see that being very effective. I might have to try that

Kara:

I'll send you this meditation, because I, I love it because, so it's like six minutes and there's this sweet old man that like narrates it and I don't know, I just find him to be very sweet and very safe feeling, and he walks you through it. And, like I said, I don't use it every time, but when I could tell I have energy and emotion in my body, that feels kind of stuck.

Brittney:

Yeah.

Kara:

I go to that and it is a beautiful experience and sometimes big emotion will come out. Sometimes I'll have like a nice big explosive cry. Not always, but sometimes. And it is again, it's just kind of getting things moving because what we don't want is them to get stuck. Okay. So that is physical, but that also is very emotional. let's see where else we wanna go here. So, Yeah, I think you mentioned breath work, you know? Right. So like learning to breathe in a way in which tells your body that you're safe is a skill that I think we can all develop in practice. So that's definitely one that is part of this post a game, time period, and maybe even like a, a great daily practice for all of us, given the lives that we have, but,

Brittney:

I like the idea, the visual of like closing the loop. That's what we're trying to do and

Kara:

mm-hmm.

Brittney:

of different ways to do it. And even just this, I've never heard of the shaking thing. I'm gonna. I'm gonna give it a try. Maybe I won't like it, but what's it gonna like? What's the worst that's gonna happen? I'm gonna be like, nah. And then you just move on. Like it's fine. Like try some stuff, you know, try multiple things and see what sticks for you. And it changes for me too. Like what I'm gonna do this year

Kara:

Hmm.

Brittney:

gonna be a little bit different than next year or whatever. So, yeah.

Kara:

Yeah, definitely. Okay. Let's see. So then I think let's move on to like the emotional and spiritual recovery. And we, yes, we've broken'em down, but here's the interesting thing about our bodies is, we are mind, body, and spirit. And so like, we can't really separate them'cause Right. Because if you think about, you know, we we're just talking about if we're disassociated from our body, You we're not gonna be able to do the emotional work, right? Like we will be actually disconnected from that. So, it's all interconnected, I guess, is what I'm trying to say. So what comes to your mind if you think about like, your own spiritual and emotional recovery as it relates to like, the experience of having violence in your house?

Brittney:

Yeah. Yeah, it's a really, really important key, but once again, you have to be. A place where you're ready to work through that. And I think it's, for me, I have to get my body physically back into, so not, not perfectly, but to a place where I can process the emotion. And there we talked about a variety of different ways to do that. and then, and then once I feel like my body is unc unclenched enough to then accept that emotional processing, then we can move on to that. And I do that through a a lot of talk therapy, whether

Kara:

Mm-hmm.

Brittney:

With those friends, with my husband, with one of my parents, you know, or even just with myself. I have had, my Austin really likes to go on car rides if we've had an emotional or traumatic event of some kind, and he's now in a place where we feel safe to be in the car. I will buckle him in. We have a lock on our safety belt too, our, our

Kara:

Mm-hmm.

Brittney:

And, we'll go on a car ride and I will, sometimes I'll turn on some music. Sometimes I won't, and I will talk to him about it

Kara:

Mm.

Brittney:

He can't respond to me in any kind of verbal, like, you know, we're not having a back and forth

Kara:

Mm-hmm.

Brittney:

by any sense of the word, but I'm just talking to him about it and what worked and what didn't and what I wish we would've done different. And I understand you're going through this. I will. I'm not speaking for him necessarily, but I'm trying to maybe like. Look, I'm just gonna talk about this. I'm trying to understand why you did that, what you did and what's going on. Like, do you think it's because of this? Like, I think it's because of this, and I'm just throwing that out there to you. And I'm speaking to him like he's an 18-year-old kid because he is an 18-year-old kid.

Kara:

Mm-hmm.

Brittney:

We're having a conversation about appropriate things that we need to do. know, as a mom and child, so, you know, I'll do that with him. And it's very, mentally, it, it can be very helpful for me. There's usually some little crying in there with me as well. I'm a religious person. I will have a conversation with God as well. We'll have a little chat and there's some prayer and we're, we're talking and that, that helps me. Emotionally and spiritually. I am involved in a lot of groups online and through my phone where I can speak to someone and there's apps and things where it doesn't have to be live. So it's, it's Marco Polo app and specific is what I really like to use. And I can talk to a friend who has maybe a similar kid to mine who I've, I've met through these, these special needs groups. I can just leave that message there and she can get back to me when she has time too, and the energy and her own trauma and things going on and we can have a conversation about it. And that's very validating. And it's connecting and it, it takes some of that isolation piece away, which is part of that emotional like. Recovery, the post game is how isolating and

Kara:

Mm-hmm.

Brittney:

and, and embarrassing and, and a variety anger, all of it. It's all there. And being able to talk to somebody who's actually gone through the same thing I have or very, something very similar can be very, very, cleansing and, and what's the word I'm looking for, I guess, I guess, gives you that sense of, Connection.

Kara:

supportive, right? Like it's just really supportive, right? Yeah.

Brittney:

Yeah.

Kara:

yeah. And so I think for me, a lot of the, a lot of the same, right? So like, so for me, I'm a big fan of therapy and having a space just to explore whatever it is, what I'm feeling about the thing, and without. You know, it's like my, there's stories that we have about things. There's feelings we have about things that, like, we just, don't give space and energy, especially because if people knew, what would they think? Right? And so I think having a safe space to come as exactly as you are, I think particularly with how we think and feel about these things that are happening is just, it's so, so valuable. It doesn't mean that we're gonna do anything different than we are necessarily, but I think giving ourselves that freedom of expression and grief. So I think this phase, I think it's the phase or this post-game is grieving. The fact that this is part of my life grieving. And so you, you're talking about you talking to Austin about it. And I love that because I feel like also, we don't know how he feels. I do know how Levi feels about it and I do know he doesn't feel great about when there's things that happen and I think. Honoring the fact that they're in this too.

Brittney:

Yeah.

Kara:

You know, they are experiencing the, what it's like to be in a body that is out of control

Brittney:

Mm-hmm.

Kara:

they don't like it. they want it to be different. I mean, I'm speaking for Levi. and so, you know, let's just like, okay, we gotta grieve this because this is, this is where we find ourselves. and it's really hard. We don't like it and we don't necessarily want it to be there. There was something else. Oh, I think also, you know, you're talking about having places and spaces that you can connect and talk about and essentially be supported. And so likewise, you know, I have different places and you know, we have both developed, you know, kind of these spaces. both I think as a profession, maybe mean more so than you in terms of like serving people in creating spaces like this. But I think, you know, you through the podcast, right? And creating, spaces to talk about these things. I'm also thinking of a friend, that's local to me. That she had this joke where she was like, you know, we had some behavioral events at school. And she's like, oh, I gotta take you out to a margarita. She's like, I take all my friends out when their child gets suspended from school. So yes, we're making light of it, but let's just put it this way. I think that, between she and I, more her than I this year, it's been a hard year for her and her daughter. There's been a lot of margarita nights

Brittney:

Yeah.

Kara:

almost like a weekly standing in terms of like, and I don't even always drink at them, but, kind of creating a space to like laugh about, okay, so how many TVs did she break this week? You know, like, and like really kind of like laugh about it, but also

Brittney:

Absolutely do

Kara:

like, just to be like, we're doing this together. Like I know what it's like, I would change it for you if I could. I can't, but I, you know, but in the meantime I'm here to hear it. so we can be that for each other. So I think,

Brittney:

you can do both. You're allowed

Kara:

yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Brittney:

that, yeah, I Just to touch on the margarita thing, we call those disability. so

Kara:

great.

Brittney:

if you're having a rough day, and even if you did not have a game in actual

Kara:

Uhhuh. Uhhuh.

Brittney:

maybe you're just, the pre, the pregame is just kicking your butt today.

Kara:

Yeah.

Brittney:

a disability, you

Kara:

Disability.

Brittney:

It can be like whatever that is. It could be like a cup of tea, but you know.

Kara:

Yeah. Yeah, I've gotten big on those mocktails. Have you had those?

Brittney:

love mocktails. I

Kara:

they're like,

Brittney:

are my jam.

Kara:

yeah, I'm like big on those.

Brittney:

a disability. Dini, you are like, what? As many as you need. You're allowed to do that and, and maybe your kid needs his own version of that, whether that's a Rice Krispy treat, or a hamburger, or McDonald's, or you know, whatever. They get their own version of that too.

Kara:

That's so great. I wanna know the gal. It's, it was definitely a gal. It definitely wasn't a guy that came up with that. Adorable saying.

Brittney:

it was definitely a a, a mom? Yes.

Kara:

Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Okay. okay. Last thing I think, so I'm looking at our notes here. I'm like, oh, it says Boundary and community, and it says Save people list. And the last thing I wanna say about this is. There are a lot of people that I do not tell a lot of parts of our story. you know, it is more about my desire to not be with whatever it is that they may think or feel, or that I may think they may think or feel.

Brittney:

Yeah.

Kara:

Recognizing I already have so much on my plate, I don't necessarily want to necessarily engage with them in a conversation.'cause I don't think they're gonna understand. They don't have to understand, but I don't have to tell them. So.

Brittney:

not responsible for their reaction to your trauma.

Kara:

We're not. And so, and but, so my, choice in some of those, and I know that that is true. I also know that I will be tempted to feel responsible. Yeah.

Brittney:

different things.

Kara:

for that reason, I also can decide, oh, I don't have to tell everybody. I don't have to tell them in particular. and that there's like a little bit of like a power that we get back from that. Like, you know, I'm not saying that we can like control all things, but we can control a couple.

Brittney:

well.

Kara:

this is when I choose to some like step into that control.

Brittney:

Yeah, I like that. And, and I, I will even test the waters a little bit. I'll give someone a little nugget and then see how they react, and then I'll maybe share, elaborate a little bit more and see how they react. And it, we get, you know, a few steps down. I'm like, okay, you ready? You really wanna hear about it? And let it out, right? It's usually like a code brown like poop story like that. And then you see if they can hang with you and the ones who can make it through all of those steps. Those are your golden tickets. You wanna keep those ones around? I think something that's really key that we've both mentioned is, Multi or different or, or just multiple places. You need to have access to these kinds of people or these kinds of recovery in multiple different ways. If you have all of your little recovery eggs in one basket, you're setting yourself up for, for some failure or that not working anymore. So please, please, please, if you don't get anything else from this, have a few different options for you depending on what the situation was. What's available to you in that moment and who's available to help you. So

Kara:

Totally key and mentioning. So I am a person who has a spectacular husband. We, it's like he's a great partner. I mean, nobody's perfect, but he's just incredible. And, he's not my only source of support when it comes to, you know, breaking down what's gone down in my home.

Brittney:

Yeah.

Kara:

first off, he's, he has his own, like, he's in it too, right? So like.

Brittney:

own reactions to

Kara:

He has his own reaction. He has his own areas of struggle and well it's great because yes, he is frontline with me. He can't necessarily be everything that I need. And I recognize that in the same way that different girlfriends can, or different professionals can, and you know, and there's the value of like having the friends and community that do have disabled kids to be like, they understand, right? But then there's the value of having people outside that, that do and willingly step into, say, I, I can't even imagine Kara, but I'm here with you.

Brittney:

Yes.

Kara:

there's, there's space for all of it. So kind of just reiterating

Brittney:

the

Kara:

what you said.

Brittney:

is having all of those options available to you. And it takes a lot of time and effort on your part and maybe a little bit of luck. but, but it is available to you in AK can happen, with some work and some time. Yeah,

Kara:

Well said. Okay. That feels like a pretty good place to land. How we feeling about landing this one in? Wrapping it up? I think everything pretty good. Again, I feel like we've just scratched the surface. but thanks for joining us here, ladies in this conversation.

Brittney:

I love, I love talking with you.

Kara:

Likewise. Likewise. Okay, well with that, we will see on the next episode. And, so this is going to air on both of our, podcast platforms.

Brittney:

yes.

Kara:

At different times. So you might be hearing it like, not right now, but in a couple months. I don't know. but there'll be show notes to connect with either one of us, on both of our platforms. And you know, of course we wanna keep in touch and let us know what you thought about the episode, and what you wanna hear more about. You know, like I think your show is the very, very similar right? Where you wanna hear from your guests and you wanna hear from your audience and. You know, speak to what it is that they wanna hear more about, so,

Brittney:

Yeah, I think that's really key. And there's a lot in both of our podcasts, there's a lot of overlap, but th this isn't just like a one like. You can only listen to one podcast or one therapist or one area, like you're gonna glean some stuff from Kara's things. You're gonna find things maybe on mine that you're gonna

Kara:

mm-hmm.

Brittney:

more about and, and there's a lot of crossover, but there's just so much to talk about and so much to connect with that you can't oversaturate yourself. I think, with, with the content at least.

Kara:

Yeah, particularly'cause I don't talk about anything as it relates to experts and professionals wanting to help our children. And I think you guys do bring those people on, which is.

Brittney:

here and

Kara:

Great. and so like if you're like, oh, I actually need more like tactical strategies for my particular child, your podcast would be a great resource to find some of that. Yeah.

Brittney:

it out and

Kara:

And just your other three co-hosts, which are, I don't know all of'em, but you know, incredible ladies, so.

Brittney:

they're

Kara:

All right. Thank you so much. Okay, well with that, we will see on the next episode.