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I have Jeff Foxworthy and welcome. To gamekeeper. Podcast. If you want to learn more about farming for wildlife and habitat management, then buddy. You are in the right place. Join the gamekeeper crew. Direct from Moscow Plant Enhancement Studio as they discuss the latest. Wildlife and Habitat management practices. News. And of course, hunting. There's no telling what you'll learn. But I will tell you, I bet it's interesting. Enjoy, Robin. Nine, two, one. Welcome, everybody. Once again, West Point, Mississippi, home of Marshall Kamau, the Game Keeper Studio. We've got a lot to talk about today is going to talk about turkeys. This is going to go by fast. Yeah. The suspension is building. At Daily Daily. News Zone. The Moth season starts one week from yesterday. No, today, today. But by the time this airs, it'll. It'll be brought upon us. But it is now officially March 20, 24. As of this morning. Yeah. We had to go through that long February. Yeah. Doozy way 29. And for about the 15th year in a row, we have an early spring. Yeah. Is it 15 in a row? I mean, that's when I started noticing it. But, you know, you look at your old pictures with the red buds blooming in the background from opening weekend to turkey season. Well, guess what? We're two weeks away from that and the red buds are already in full bloom. So I got a new word for you, Laney. antler exodus. Instead of antler Genesis. Are y'all seen in shadow yet? We're going to look this weekend actually inside with Toxie. You know. So I'm. Never mind. I'm watching my Spartan cameras every day, and I'm still seeing all my antlers on my box. We found one. We found one shed. Yeah, at the least. So last week, in essence, you asked dissolve blue dye and said, Hey, we got all three granddaughters this go to the cabin. And we got out there and then, like, immediately, let's go run. Well, Clay had gotten the glasses from there, had brought them in a service and there was nothing left but the Aga that we duck on. And so we just got in there. Fired it. Up and fired it up and went off in the water with they were just thrilled like and they were run across where I'd burned one of those big fields off Diane's. Wait, wait, wait. What's that? I see a Santa, So it's a really big shed. And so we found some more. So I rode around to the playing field around the cabin. They found, like, man shirts. man. And they were like, it was so much fun because Avie, the oldest, is eight now. And she would be, like I say, one. And she bounce out of that or go and bounce across the first, even if it is a little smile when she could eagle arm. So they I mean I sat back even if I saw one didn't claim it. It was so much fun. Now, how can you count on finding them with them? I don't know. But to take your granddaughters out and let them find it was very cool. I never found nine. We found. We found the magic. The big one that we found. It was actually a 12 point. We found we went around the creek. We were down on Saddle Creek. That's the one she saw first and went over to where that big the test plot field is. Yeah. And sure enough, there was other matching side laying right across the creek from it. Believe it or not, I'm not been great luck finding shares, but that was a pretty cool so good. Yea yea yea yea. Look at those creek grasses because they're jumping in land and in thickets and trails and then field. Edges is is. Trails. It's the trail. Bar and feed between is a good food park was this year with that drought. Now you're going to find a lot of them there. Yeah. Mark you need to do that with Wilkes now. I'd make a lot of fun for y'all. yeah, They'd have a blast. I thought we were going, man, But maybe we're not. You're welcome to go with us. If he does, let us go. Well, thank you. No problem. my gosh. They got me. So I've got one other thing we need to. Lanny. You know, I kind of got started the other day saying how I got to experience how the other half lives with Toxie. So the end of the show, the end of the story is so pitiful. So the Friday night at the end of it, after that big fancy place, he and us go to supper at the Waffle House. Yeah. Yeah, It was. Delicious. It was, you know, I mean, that's what we did. We ate at the Waffle House. Yeah. Somebody some turkey hunter there picked up our tab. And I just want to say, I hope they're listening. And you say thank you. Wow. Nobody out of turkey hunting candy. Nobody's ever picked up my tab. It had to be for Toxie. because usually people leave a path for me to pick out. Shit. I've worn my balls, Usher. Today they probably. Heard you had a wedding to pay for. Is probably. What could have been what it was they. Did. Maybe. Yeah. You started your go fund me yet? Not yet, man. If I'm. If I knew y'all's tab was going to get picked up, I wouldn't have eaten at all. Hickory that. Not. Well, thanks to whoever did that. That was really nice. It was nice. So, guys, today we are so at the Bottomland Book club. This gentleman comes up and grabs me and he says, I got somebody you got to meet, you got to talk to. So the guy that came and grabbed me was Mr. Steve Rawson, which is a hard name to say. Ross Robinson is our name pronounced. It's more like Ro son. Ross son. Okay. Like the son of Ross? Yeah. Ralston. Ross. Ross. So I said, I got somebody you got to meet. He said, Mr. Benny Hill. He lives in Mississippi. He's hearing Mr. Who is Benny Hill? I don't know. He's like a televangelist. Then you. Know, the Bradys coming. In. You have a running record of name butcher. Well, Mr. Benny Herring is here. He is an evangelist. He's just a turkey evangelist restaurant. Okay. All right. So, Mr. Benny here. I'm so sorry. I apologize. No problem. He was born with that problem. Yeah, but it happens. It happens. It really does happen more often than I care to admit. But he was explaining you were maybe one of, if not the first biologist to work with turkeys in the state and trapping and translocated them. And we're just so excited to have you here and to learn about this. Well, you don't know how much I appreciate that. And I was not the first. I was fortunate enough to be in a position. We had a turkey biologist. This was the game in fish. This was back in the sixties, guys, you know, And we had a turkey biologist that was in charge of the turkey project and his name was Champ Cart and unfortunately he lost his life on a tractor and deiced on one of our wildlife management. man. And as a result of his demise, I was in line to inherit the Turkey project work and I had been working with Champ a lot. We spent a lot of time in Florida to learn how to use avocados to capture turkeys and it yes, I was in the right place at the right time by Alpha. What was that? It's a drone now. Did you use turkeys? We never used it because use in a drug, when you capture a lot of turkeys, it's very difficult because all of them don't take in the same amount. And it affects the size of the turkey. It affects differently. And consequently, you probably would lose a few because they'd wander off. So we quit. We never used it, you say, at one time. And of course, the cannon, that was what was developed in the late fifties up for waterfowl capture originally. So we thought, well, you know, why can't we catch turkeys with it? And that's what we went to. And you know, you might lose one or two out of the bunch that you had made it up to catch. But very seldom did you lose any. So it was very effective and that's the reason we were able from the seventies to the eighties to make such an impact on moving. So many turkeys is because cannon niche and fortunately now we did some restocking in the late fifties. We had a few birds on the Leaf River Wildlife Management here in South Mississippi, and we called a few turkeys there and located them. But their main source of turkeys than the seventies to the alias came from a place in Coahoma County, Mississippi, for our food. And there was a family of people there, the Mickey's that were generous enough to set aside 3000 acres of land behind the Mississippi River levee that had a bunch of turkeys, and they set it up as a wildlife refuge. And we well captured over 90 releases of Turkey off of that refuge. Wow. And there was one man involved in it. And I would like to tell you his name and make sure you remember there was a game warden at that time. We called him Game Warden and we called him Conservation Officers, but he was a conservation officer. They lived in Coleman County and his name Duane Strider. And he knew turkeys. He understood turkeys. And when the deer Slayton was over, we got Wayne to start baiting and trapping turkeys fast. And I was fortunate enough to become good friends with him

and be willing to get up at 1: 9:16

00 in the morning and drive over there and helping set up these candidates and catch turkeys. And we carried turkeys all over the state of Mississippi and fried food gravy due to the McKee family. Just want you know there is. Sound the horde for them. Yeah that's right yeah and. God bless the cannon that my goodness. Yeah. I got to thinking about what's happened because of you and that. How generous was that of that. Found out about. It too. Yeah, well, I think my family was at the island next door. Jackson pulling, hunting, hunting turkeys, not giving them away. Well, we were also fortunate enough later on, a few of the hunting clubs like Catfish Point. South of there. That's yeah, that's where ours came from. Yeah. And they began to say, okay, we've got a bunch of turkeys. Y'all can catch a release here. So not all of the turkeys. We didn't do all of our trapping. Frisch. We trapped a hole and down the river a lot of private individuals around Columbia, Mississippi, allowed us to catch birds there and transplant, so. But now it wasn't is easy. We had a procedure that we went through before we would approve a place to carry a release of turkeys. We would have a biologist just to go and examine the area that requested them. And back then and we all right through was that you had to have a minimum of 10,000 acres of good habitat with everybody, clubs, individual landowners being in agreement that they would protect those birds and then they would be put on that release list. And that's the way we did it. And then we tried to now we never could come to a an exact number, but we would like to put at least ten hands and 2 to 5 gobblers at each release site. And then we would use various methods to track the reproductive success. We would use male carriers to tell us where they saw turkeys, how many they saw what they were. We conservation officers would tell us, landowners would tell us. And our standard was that five years, if things look good, you could have that conversation and it worked out right. Tell about how your tagged with the different colors. Yeah, originally course we put leg bands on every one of them, every turkey we released. But and you would get a return occasionally of those but so we thought, well, you know, we got to have a way to identify those turkeys if you see. So we began to put different colored markers on their wings, red, yellow, whatever. And we kept a record of, okay, we put ten hands with yellow, we put three gobblers with red. And then if somebody saw one of them, we would know where they were released and where they came from. So that was a big help. And that time we did not have radio telemetry like we do now. But as Mississippi State, they begin to use radio telemetry to put on turkeys. And of course, you learn just so much about a turkey using telemetry. That was another pioneer, Dr. George Hurst. Exactly. He's the. Man. Yes, sir. Yeah. Gosh, it's interesting to kind of travel back in time. So this was in the then the seventies? Yes. When this get started. So there were actually counties around or areas that might not have any turkeys in them at all. Exactly. And so. Lots of them. Would they? How it would they would show it would be a group of people like a mr. Fox that that would communicate with the down Jackson way. Right. Say we'd like to do this. Well that's what we do we had to go through that process. He he got signatures from either landowners or club presidents to get collectively 10,000 acres. Yeah. And they would request a turkey release. Yep. And that when we'd go and look at the property and fit met the requirements, we put it on a list. And then y'all would do this in the cooler, march the winter months and release them in, say, January. Capture period was most of the time from mid-January to 1st of March. That was kind of our trapping period. And then we would carry them and release them and begin to keep track of them as best we could. And, you know, basic rule was five years. Hopefully we can have a shower turkey. See, that would rain. He said about two weeks. But all the turkey season was two weeks. Yeah, that was our original recommendation of two weeks. You know. Was that was it regulated by county or I mean they would just have a season specifically for that. At that time. Like some counties that had had turkeys for several years, they might have three or four weeks, but a new a new county, so to speak. So like a Taylor County, We opened it in 1970 and it was two weeks. Montgomery Carroll opened a year later. How much do we. How many turkey hunters did they have until tell again in the first year? Well, what were. A lot of say the set of spires on this. Day? Yeah. for the good old days. Yeah. And I still bet they didn't talk to each. To each other. Anything lately has more than four people parked at his spot. He goes to. Call every time I. Tell him about when you found tracks. Well, the way we scouted is the thought was we would take a county road and we would ride and look for tracks. And if we saw tracks, we'd get outbreak of paddle him by track, that is by the man. That's how. We ran. After moved. Out of. One turkey season out And course we'd go there and listen. Yeah so yeah some things never change. But, you know. On that same topic I can remember as a kid when my Uncle Jack Carter, he had a group called the Fox Rocking chair, Fox owner of pretty famous group only, and they would take their dogs and listen to them run Fox. But anyway, they saw a deer track and when they came back into town at the barbershop and at a restaurant, all they were talking and a group of people rode out a crowd to look at the deer truck. Yeah, couldn't believe it. We've come a long way. There was your daughter been begging you to hunt since her little brother shot the Big Eight last year? We've had a fire. Just Fields got stuck, got on, stuck, planted food, plots, fertilized it, prayed for rain, moved trees, limbs, roads, even bought one of those fancy cell cameras. So what's your excuse? Jealous tractor Moultrie has pioneered the game management category today. Moultrie is one of the best selling brands of feeders and seeders in the world. And they continue to innovate with new technology that gamekeepers will rely on. Moultrie Products are always field tested and designed for hunters by hunters combining forward thinking innovation with time tested practicality. Moultrie First in feeders since 1979. All right, so Gash Moultrie is offering our listeners a 15% site wide discount it Moultrie feeders dot com use code mossy oak or the capital m maceo at moultrie faders dot com and get that 15% discount. So when did you start with the conservation department? Well I'll give you a little history on my education because I graduated my class school and from there I knew my mother wanted me to be a schoolteacher, bless her heart. So she insisted that I go to Delta State College at that time at university. Now to become a schoolteacher. So I did. I went to Delta State and I majored in biology. But I figured out right quick that I really didn't care and think about teaching. But I really loved fish. About the time I graduated from Delta State with a degree in biology, I found out that there was a wildlife school in Mississippi State University. So I went up there and talk to Dr. Honor, and he ran me up a little scholarship, and I went to Mississippi State, and I graduated with a degree in Wildlife management in 1967. MAY Wow. Wow. That is in the latter part of May. I was hired by the Mississippi game and Fish at that time, and I went to work for them and I worked for them for 32 years and followed when I retired at 56. I went to work as a consulting biologist with the Endangered Species Consulting Company, and I worked for them 11 years and then I retired and I say I retired. I still work for a couple of guys in Ocean property in Carroll County, has dealt with Delta there while at work. Now, that's awesome. So you've seen a lot of changes in. Game keeping a long time. I have. So how many how many releases do you estimate you? Well, I have a record of we made 19 releases from the Friar's Point review. Wow. That that into itself is amazing. And that would be at least 5 to 10 birds or every time. Well, 10 to 15. 10 to 15 when you multiply that out. Yeah. So we've made releases and I've been personally involved with releases from get fish bone marrow, a couple of clubs down through there. The individuals in Columbia, Mississippi had a place in Australia and I've tripped a few times on our wildlife management areas. Malmaison wildlife manager there trapped a few turkeys out there. So I've been involved in a lot of restoration projects, which was, you know, as I told Steve coming up here, hell, I probably paid do that work grueling pay and. Make I understand. That sounds like a lot of fun. Yeah, it was it was a good laugh. That's great. I met some great people. You know, I'll say it for us all the time, but you're going to a greater story than we are. Honestly, when you can make a difference in what you love with your work in your life, that's a great life. And boy, you can say that in spades. Well. I've been fortunate. I had is off to. Tell him about the first time you saw your first turkey where it was. Well, I had already gone to work for the game Fish, and we were over in Sharqiya, only around rolling for I forget what we when I was over there far. But in a way, I was one of the conservation officer who ran me around showing me. And that's where I got my first wild turkey. Wow. And it was a big old gobbler. And it just hit me that the most beautiful thing I've ever seen in my life. Hit the. Silver. If you know what, That's exactly the same thing. I thought the first time I saw one two inches. I exact Yeah. And honestly commentary. Yeah. Right now it's still. it still is. It's unbelievable. And Mr. Benny, you've you've hunted every Mississippi turkey season that has existed, Right? Well, since I've been able to hunt in that I started in 1970. Wow. And I hadn't had missed a season I, I went one season. I didn't kill a turkey in Mississippi and but I kill turkeys everywhere. I've been fortunate enough. I've done it in 15 different states. Yes, sir. And but in a little over. Don't take me up before next week. I won't go again. Getting married. I love to hear the accent in Florida. Tell us the story about isn't this your first turkey right here? The one on the left is that the first turkey I ever killed in my buddy when the male and I were hunting Zimmer, Mississippi, which is in Antalya County, and some crazy reason that Turkey came up to me and, you know, I sounded like a yard chicken, I'm sure. But anyway, that was my first turkey at one on the live at that one laying down were killed. I think that pair was killed probably in the round 2000, you know. And what year was your first bird. As the 1970. It was a nine. I like the way you got him standing up that. That's how I was taught to do it. You would you would put him in a bookcase or something and force them to stand up and they would draw like that. Yeah. I'd put him up against a bookcase and put a brick on it. That's right. Yeah. When we got him out on the windowsill this morning, his wife, Ms.. Berry, said they've been there since about 50 years. Yeah, In that same spot. And in that back room where he's got. There's about 500 beards. I tell you what, I. Feel like you may feel special, and. That. Is actually was my assigned first year of 19 seven. It was, Wow, look at that. And let me tell you, the Spurs is big on you know what? Spurs. Yeah. This those. Look like Spears and. Some of the biggest Mississippi Spurs ever. How long are those? I don't. Know. They being actually, my home was in January not fall season It down in Alabama where I grew up but they they have always had a policy you know Mr. Fox. Do you. Jane. That's great. I will ask him on the way up here to what was the first shotgun you used and what was the when you hear this story. So well, the first five turkeys I ever killed had a sweet 16. I'm a 26. And Bruce, Eleanor. I be a brown number 16. Brown and sweet 16 because I quail hunted. Yeah, that's only shotgun. Hey. Yeah. So the first five turkeys I killed, including that right there, was killed with a 16 gauge Sweet 16 segment. Hey, birdshot. Why improve cylinder. Improves. Yeah, they were close. What was your. Yeah, what was your. It was a fix them. What? No screwing. Yeah. So what was your distance you would say? I know you always said. I had a mark of 30 yard. Okay. If I could get him to 30 yards, I could kill him. Go. You know, that's the thing. Did he had a model 12 with like a 32 inch barrel and no real and just a smooth. my. He barely has a couple of serial numbers he'd gotten from someone in the family, and that's a 44 was when he killed his far from but he never missed a turkey with that gun ever and shot it all the way to the mid-sixties. But if shooting two and three quarter inch sixes. And. Sixes. Yeah. And then he got as far. He was so excited. That came up with the three inch magnum. we had. And he was so excited in the first turkey ever. Miss is the first one he ever shot with the new, you know, the new big bullets. You know what he. I said, how do you never miss one? He said, well, I mean I had that 30 yards was his distance. Yeah. If they weren't at least 30 yards or less, I never ever checked. Yeah. I don't think a lot of folks cited their shotguns in back then. You know. Well, folks just assumed. It was you just you didn't think about pattern that gun. That's right. And I remember my dad handed off his old 870 to me, and he he told me to just aim at the at the base of the neck. Yeah. I found out. Wow. When I cited it in, it was over a foot high, 35 yards. Wow. Now, maybe that's a little lower. Didn't tell him what to shoot now. Well, I shoot a three and a half, but. Yes. Yes, ma'am. I hear you. Goodness gracious. Because I don't. My thoughts right. Well, you know, you can know we need to introduce him to a 20 Bobby. Changed your. Life. I know we're still sporting and people are shooting him for instance, now, but. That's right. The the the conservation minded thing is be sure when you pull the trigger, they go down, you don't want them. And so kudos to him. You're right. That's right. I want to see them flop. And I've got questions in my mind. But dang, Steve, you just keep laying the good question. Yeah. Well, yeah, Steve said that. Look, I know what? How do I know what? Yeah, I've heard the story. So famously brought his handler with Mr. Billy. I want to ask you mention Wendell Neil a minute ago, and I've just hear his name Pop up all the time with Ricky Flint. Yep. Stuff about him. You. And let me give you a little history on one email, please. He was great in the belly. She bless is so. Many and he overcame. It. But at any rate, Wendell started in April before what I did in May and he at that time was assigned to the Deer Project. And he is he brought Mississippi alone in managing deer. And he was very good at it in course at that time. You got to remember now if you make and shoot and those you were sacrilegious. my goodness. It was that was his job. And he didn't pull any bones about it. He was good. And he would tell on club, okay. He'd go there and he would examine their deer and their records and he'd say, okay, you need to kill 60. No. Well, got to marry knows you can imagine what kind of stir that brought about it was just. But that's where he made his mark and he returned in retire from the game It fish he left the game in fish and went to work with the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. And while he was with the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service is where he learned the endangered Species Act and how to apply with some common sense. And that's where you get to know Ricky Flint. They hired Wendell after he retired from years fishing Wildlife Service to do the alligator management plan for the state of Mississippi. Wow. And and when I mentioned that after I retired from the Department of Wildlife, I went to work with the endangered species themselves. And then that was one of the meals company. And he and I worked together for 11 years after I retired. And I probably learned from him about bird calls, how to identify a bird, a cow, identifying plants, you know, the a deer biologist. You got to know what they're eating. Same thing with turkey. You got to know what they eat. So he was a very influential guy that did a lot for the not only the state of Mississippi, but the United States, because he was a national biologist with Fish and Wildlife Service. He's very good at interpreting and applying the endangered species thing with some common sense. Were you with him? When I hear a rumor that of some a hunting club pulled a pistol on him, pulled a gun on him when he was talking about shooting down? absolutely. His life was threatened many times. And I'm not exaggerating that because of his stance on deer management. And they would they would just say, you know, you know. They just got they get fired, man. Yeah. Well, it's an important lesson for us and our listeners to hear is that, you know, oftentimes these biologists and scientists come up with these ideas that we think are crazy at the time, but I think it helps to listen to what they have to say. Well. It behooves us to, you know, cause most our decisions concerning wildlife have a political side to them. And that's good up to a point. But when you get down to making the final decision, you need to look at the resource first and the political aspects second. And a lot of times that's hard to do. And it is got to have more than. That. I'd like to say every commissioner of every wildlife group and every state needs to listen to that statement he just made. That's exactly right. Yeah. He told me on the way over here to some encouraging thoughts about the Mississippi Delta and where he thinks it's going with the Mississippi Turkey population. And I want him to kind of share about that because I think that might fire up some folks in the Delta to hear what he thinks, where we're headed with and why. Well, the Mississippi Delta, as you are well know, when you get to the levee over there and you got a levee, I mean, things are great, but from the levee to the heels, of course, that's agricultural country. And at one time they practically all of the turkey habitat was destroyed. They're clearing it for agriculture. Well, in the past 10 to 15 years, the terrain has turned a little bit that that land that was not profitable for farming is being put back in trees. And as a result, there is going to be numerous places in the Mississippi Delta that you're going to have available turkey habitat, and they will have turkey. You know, honey, they're again, beginning to have it already. So there's some bright signs along those lines. I tell you what, you know, we've talked about around to the Delta, seen some of those hardwood reestablishment zones and everything else actually getting so few years on. It's really promising over there. It's very promising. And while I'm not a huge fan of the space things and some of those things that I see, I'm glad that they're being converted over to wildlife habitat. Yeah, no doubt about it. You know, used to you would drive through and it would just be nothing but row crop. Everywhere you look now, there's a lot of areas where there's trees growing. Yeah. You're going to have some habitat come in about there. Yeah. So in your duties as a biologist, did you ever do any law enforcement. yes, sir. It most our biologists at that time were sworn law enforcement laws, and that was a good thing the way we looked at it, because if we were in a county happen doing a project and a conservation officer need help doing his work, he could call on us. And consequently, when we needed something from him, he was more apt to do it if we helped him. So it was a give and take situation. But yes, I was a former law enforcement officer. So here's where I'm trying to go with it. When y'all relation these turkeys years ago, were there areas of the state where the elders or we need some help up there, these turkeys aren't going to make it and where they just maybe more about poaching pressure, I guess might be, Well now there's no arsonists come. The man that we needed additional law enforcement effort to protect the turkeys because we tried to make sure that there was enough habitat there and enough people had joined into say, okay, we're going to protect these birds. And that we they were assigned extra enforcement efforts where we released turkeys. To my knowledge. I was kind of expecting him to say it, a Wombat county and some Wallaces or something like. I'll come on, I'll get a dragnet. We know the real outlaw is Bobby. Well, you know, if you look at the harvest map now, turkeys in the state of Mississippi, north Mississippi, you know. There's a lot of birds. Speaking in north east Mississippi out of the call, out to one of our locals that I grew up being friends with, Jerry Hazelwood. I know Jerry. Well, yeah. And so he went to UK, moved back up there, but he actually was involved in a lot of this Also made me think because he was a biologist when he transferred to being a biologist, he still, he could still write you up. Yeah, but he, we let them come back down here and let your trout own us several times too. They actually trapped over 60 and one. Block after they got reestablished here. yeah. now. We go back. We trapped them a couple times. The cotton mills, couple times. That comfortable. I got there too. Jerry was always involved. Yeah, too. But he was boy, he was. He was a yeah, he was a warrior for. Wildlife, too. Yeah. He started off as a fish biologist. That's right. Yeah, I hired him. And how. About that? He converted to our. And moved to the game division. We called it where he was a wildlife biologist, then moved up to you and did some great work. Is that how many of y'all were there back then? Well. At that time, I think from the seventies till the mid, maybe 80, 80, I think we had six or eight biologist for the entire state. Wow. And then you begin to add more. Yes, sir. And at one time, you you were if you were a biologist, you worked out of state. One of the best things about my job, the time I work there, I have at one time or another worked in every county in the state of Mississippi, which were all great. Got to know the people, the wardens, you know. And then my original job when I was hired was to do Pokemon coordinator. If you remember back back in the time Tokyo Birds was the. Bag there. And you shot half a day. Well, my job when I was hired, the owl of the Southeastern United States Wildlife biologist formed a group to look at the possibility of raising the limit on do go to Cisco, since it's a migratory bird that is controlled by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. So we had to come up with a plan to provide the technical information to them that they would say, okay, you can raise the bag limit. And our reasonable request was to increase it to 18. And my responsibility in the state of Mississippi was to make sure that we trap in banded at least $4,000 every year so that we could use those band recoveries to determine what the population, whether we were doing harm or not. And as a result, we now have a 15 bird bag limit and you can hunt them all day. Thank you. Good. I love it now, especially on video. If it had been 18, Dudley would have never got a limit. I'm a wet, hot sportsman after a wild game. Yeah, that's a good spot, though. 15 is a good number. yeah. Yeah, That's a good back limit. You get to shoot a little bit more, you know. A little bit more. Did. Yeah. Did all those biologists work on the turkeys together or was there a specific. Well. it was, it was my job to, to lead the turkey project. But just like when a request was made from, say, like, Smith County, I had a place down there that relates to turkeys, and the biologist closest to that area would go to make sure that all of the requirements were met. The habitat. Yeah. And then he would come and we would go to the commission and say, okay, this is approved. Let's put it on a release list. Hey, guys, I want to tell you about the all new Gunner Dog Bowl. It's designed for home and built for travel. It's customizable like resistant light on weight, solid on durability and rust proof. Like other Gunner products, they're made in Nashville and designed for everywhere. Have you heard about the Ellis gamekeeper Tractor Giveaway? That's right. We're handing over one of our gamekeeper used Ellis tractors. And believe us, the team isn't thrilled about saying goodbye. This powerhouse comes equipped with a front loader, belly mower backhoe and tiller, making it the ultimate camp tractor with unmatched versatility. It comes with a certified Pre-Used warranty straight from Ellis, and the Gamekeepers crew has given it their stamp of approval. Don't miss out. Head over to Moscow gamekeepers dot com to discover all the ways you can throw your hat in the ring. I want to paint a picture real quick. So in about you said the cannon that was invented for ducks in the late fifties. And when did we first use it in Mississippi? Probably 68 or 69. Okay, let's go back before that then. So we've got 82 counting for everybody listening out there. So how many just in? It's just ballpark. How many counties do you think had actually had turkeys in 1960? In 1960, Yeah. Before we ever. But. Well, if I can just ballpark. Okay. I'm trying to remember I think there were turkeys seasons in probably 10 to 12 or parts of 10 to 12 counties at that time. I just wanted to paint that picture for everybody right now before and we'll get to it at the end of this podcast. Just this. We're so small and we're so retro, so lucky for the pioneers like you, no doubt. Especially, you know. Because it's think about today, there was like we had 82 counties and there were entire states didn't have a season, but absolutely. Yeah. You know. Yeah, there's a lot of work. Done. my goodness. So what what. Other states were were folks actively, you know, trapping and releasing roughly. And all of the south eastern states were. Okay. They all involved in trapping in restoration. Was there ever any interstate transfer of turkeys that you know of? Well, if it was it was done illegally. really? Because I had always heard some of the turkeys from where you grew up, Bobby had come from like Missouri. But, you know, who knows if. It was done, it was done illegal, right? Yeah. Tell me about. The. Domestic turkeys. Well, of course, prior to the 60 listen to this. There were a heap of turkeys turned loose all over the state. Mississippi, that were farm raised bird domestic, right? Yeah. The thinking was, okay, if we put enough of them out there, some of them are going to revert back to being wild. Well, all we're doing is feeding critters. You know, they can't. If you're not raised in a wild situation, you don't know how to survive there. If you don't have that mother hen to take the lead, those folks go. Mike again. Thank you, Mike. I think folks are still unsuccessfully tried that with quail. They have been fighting that battle all my life, you know, now. And it just doesn't work out because if those baby quail, when they're hatched, if they cannot father that mother and learn what they were to eat when they had not had, they just can't make it. Till about La Fayette County. A la Fayette County, which is Oxnard, is most of you know. A junior college up there. I think they have a college up there. Yeah. Rob. But didn't have a when I first went to work in and put the Fayette County on the release list, there was a officer up there by the name Harold Lane Prestwich. And when I told him we were going to release him birds, he said, hey about boy they going never met in the paper, say them turkeys. I can't kill them. I said, Where are they? Nice. Your job is to keep them from killing. And plus we've got this corporate agreement with the Forest Service and the private landowners. We've got a big block and they're going to provide protection. Well, he's still alive. And the last time I saw Harold and he course, he's retired like me, he said, Well, Benny, I'm glad you told me. When you release those birds that we'd go years and probably wouldn't see any bird. But one day we'd wake up and by God, we'd have birds all over the county. And he says, And that's what happened. And you go. How about that? Yeah, Mac, you look like you got a question. I do. So it sounds like the whole project was success. What? What are some factors on a habitat that you looked at that you would attribute to that success and then some things that they didn't work out well and when why? Well, our requirement at that time it caused 10,000 acres minimum. And at that time we thought probably 80% of it had to be quality hardwoods. And course, that's because that's where we saw Turkish. But as you well know now, a turkey is a very adaptable animal and they can live in situations that I would not have thought they could have. And but most of ours, I can't think of one individual place that failed. We'll release turkeys because we made sure there was adequate habitat and protection. Know 10,000 acres is a big block. Yeah. There's going to be some good habitat in there, you know. Well, at that time, you got to remember that was pine plantations were just beginning to come into being. Most everything you had was either mature hardwood or mixed pan hardwood, which was excellent turkey habitat. And you add a little protection to that. They had a just an excellent chance of surviving. Yeah, probably know how. You know how. Yeah. And then my theory and I at the time I asked Dr. Hirsch said he agree with me, but he was a big nest predator guys, you know. yeah. But every time they release them somewhere, all those predators, even the, you know, whatever would a bobcat or cold, they didn't have any experience with that as a food source. No. So they kind of got a little boom. They got off light a couple of years and it just seemed like of real quick our story, we got ten turkeys, 13 hands. They wouldn't let us have a gobbler from at this point. They said, just wait. We got a place in my will. We're going to you a couple of gobblers. So we on February the 15th, we got ten hands. Now we know for sure two of them got killed. One got caught by something. I don't know what it was, a bobcat or something. We found the feathers in a you know, actually a male man ran over one of them. So they released out here on court for like so we know for sure we didn't have but eight to start with. We didn't get our jokes until May 2nd and we know also for sure one more data point, because we we spent so much time out there and their faster ball just watching everything we know for sure. We had at least six successful nests from those hands, which is incredible. You'll never get that anymore today. And I'll just have to attribute it was great habitat and there was a lot of grown up fields with the big hardwoods and some of you early planted pad. It was that I know what it looks like now, but I just got to believe that the predators don't know for at least a year or two and I get them after a great start. But that was an amazing thing. So the other thing in going back to Dr. Hirsch, I relied on him and daily did. How did those hands get bred February 15th, those Jakes where he said, no, no, no, those jokes, didn't they already bred when we tracked them. In February. To happen. Yeah, in February 15th. So you never came back any God bless go. You did. Yeah. They we released T.J. they brought us just like you say that y'all gave us. But but he said, No, sir. But those Jakes did not breed well. Probably those hands were already bred, so they had no chance. But now that don't think that a J cannot breathe because they start McCain. He's got viable sperm. Yeah. But I guess he spent enough time. He said when we trap them by that day, almost always they've already been bred. Yeah. And that's amazing. Interesting how. How much fire was on the landscape during this time. Mr.. Many fire. Yes. at that time it was considerable. I mean, because you didn't worry about your neighbor's land. He wanted you to burn them. And of course, all of that has changed. Now. Burning is still a valuable tool, but it was easier to do back then. A lot easier. And the coyote population in Mississippi did not start to decline until 1966, if I'm correct. And so, you know, if we're talking about the early seventies, there wouldn't have been much time for, you know, a lot of that good habitat to to disappear. So maybe that helped a lot. Well, you know, turkeys live now where I never thought they would if if you're course, most forest people now it's just like farming, you know, it's on a rotation. Yeah. And if you take enough time to leave, try to work orders for those turkeys, because there's periods of time when pans are coming along. The turkeys are not going. They can't If they can't, well, through it, they don't use it. And if you've got a corridor or be a road or a stream side management zone, they take train first those plantations and get to available habitat. They'll still use it. And then when it begins to thinned out and you burn it or thin it, then they will use pine plantation. Got to give it some connectivity. Yeah. Exactly. To Mr. Berry, I want to ask you, let's go back to when you were learning to do the cannon niche. Okay. And I want to I'd like you to describe how you set up a cannon net. And then with all the effort it takes to get birds up to it, how what's it like being in the blind waiting on the bird to interpret their. It's got to be just as much fun at hunting. Okay. Of course. A cannon. When you say the word cannon, that's exactly what it is. It was a piece of metal pipe. It was about 14, 16 inches long. And you had a projectile and you that projectile had a groove cut in it. And you used either black powder or modern powder, and you used a certain white of it and you put it in a balloon and you taped it off or used a rubber band, and then you put that charge behind each project to insulate it down in that cannon because she had to wire coming out of it. And you had a lead where they went from one end of the net to your brand, and that caught what you set it up with. But you had three of those and you had the net and you had to have the net. Were any. They varied, but most of them were 20 foot long and 30 foot wide. And that, you know, and of course, you had to have a space big enough to use that. And what you would do, you would find a space where you could shoot that net and you'd go to bait. And the turkeys we used we 90% of the time, and you would string it out from where you might say, half a mile or quarter of a mile each direction down the road. And then you would start checking it every day. And when they start using it, when they got to your bait site, you went in there and set up cannons and you camouflaged it with a beauty plan and then you start sit and wait. No. And most of the time you would catch them within a day, sometime today. Wow. And go They were coming out of that bait. And of course, with the experience, you could look down that land. And when they were all feeding or most of them were feeding, you fired the net and occasionally you would have one or two that would escape, but not often. Now, sometimes particularly around behind the lady over there, where you would have the as many as 60 or 70 Turkish coming to the bait. When you got 30 or so under the net, if you could, you'd go ahead and shoot. It goes you you couldn't handle more than that, right? Yeah. Talk a little bit about your cohort, what his job was as far as well what you did. Like Wayne Strata course, he knew that area down there and he were familiar with it and they knew where to bait, not bait. But anyhow, he at one time did most of it by himself. I did, I don't know. But anyhow, he finally developed enough confidence in me that he would trust me to come help him. And when we got ready to do the capture, he would get in the plan and he'd put me in a pickup truck close enough to to it that I could hear when he shot. And course, we we would already have had the the transport boxes loaded in the truck. And when I heard him shoot for the whole building up there and we begin to take my mind there and put them in a box and put him in a truck. And then I would call like if they were coming to Clay County, I'd call Luke or somebody and say, okay, we're coming here and we're going to go to this particular place. We'll put all of the boxes out in a row and open the boxes and let them all go. At one time as much as we possibly can. So after that net goes off, you just physically go out there and and carefully. You know, when the net goes out or Turkish come up. Yes. And they get entwined in that net. So what we did, we would take every May and Wayne would get a turkey apiece and get him on land and then we'd go put him in a box, turn the box up so he couldn't get out and then just work them like that. But they'll get tangled up. No. Yeah. And surprisingly enough they, after they get tangled up, they got pretty docile. They, they, you know, I reckon they quit fighting and but now a big gobbler. When you got him out of that mess, you better have him hold him because he would want to get away from him. And but, you know, you kill him and put him in a box. And when you put him in the box, it's dark. And he calmed. Down. When it gets dark. Yeah. I bet that black powder going. I bet that's loud. I was a boom box. Yeah. Sounds like nine might going off. So in it's shooting at night. So and I guess sometimes there's probably some some birds that you've mentioned you want them all feeding so I'm assuming you both are here today it day. Right. Exactly. Yeah. That's fascinating how y'all learn to do that. I'm not sure what the same like I've read where there a guy maybe in South Carolina that kind of invented that process and. And it kind of spread around. Yeah. Well, just like the first time I was helping Wayne sit and let you know, I was in my mind visualizing how we going to elevate those cannons. Well, he had decided on his own that if he knelt down in front of that cannon and that he could look and that projector would be looking right in his face, Therefore, he wanted the angle to be because it got high. And if they'd got over the birds and of course they come up when it shoots and he just figured it out on his own. So no sun cosine tangent, just height of height of the nose. Right there and looks good. Perfect. Yeah. Yeah. And then he had by himself. Yeah. And I assume he had some kind of button he'd push. Well he used a battery, you know, they'd take a small either motorcycle battery or something like that. And that's what you said it out. That's how we would detonate over lodges and stuff. That's right. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Well, those are fascinating stories. Lenny, you got a question now? I camp up that on babbling. Think about that for a second. I was thinking about the cannon that. You know, I can. Have. My time goes. I could imagine there's probably instances where you touched the battery and it didn't go off. And then that probably. Go, yeah, that makes you may. Yeah. Yeah All that work. Yeah. Yeah, sure. That's kind of like, you know, setting up your camera and forgetting to put the batteries or, you know. Yeah. So yeah, we'll go straight to the counties from the draft. I mean, just get in the truck and here we go. Take a nice. Yeah. Yeah. They, they actually. Come the cavalry. Yeah. I don't know how often y'all did it. If the state used to, they brought out in little small airplane. really. There's probably two and a half to maybe even 3 hours and they didn't want to wait that long. I want to get them back out immediately. So kudos to them to go into that. I'm sure if you went from like a home, a county to a south Mississippi, you put them in a plane this time probably. Well, no, most of the time we did it. But true, believe it or not. Yeah. And ah, it was very. Very seldom occasionally we would have to keep them overnight. Wow. But not most. You didn't want to. You wanted to release them as quick as you could. The Terminator's the industry's most versatile piece of food plot equipment, allowing plotters to do every step of the process, working the soil, adding seed, the source supplements and compacting from start to finish with a single implement. It's hassle free by design. 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I mean, they wipe out a whole nest that's like, what, six, eight, ten and 12 in one fell swoop? Exactly. They catch a hand here or a hand there. That's not that they're not a problem. But the numbers decimated by a nest predator just by design is going to be 10,000. Yeah, 2100 times more. Yeah, well, there's some new research. I'll just go ahead and say it. Dr. Collier has is stating that the nest predators, he's referring to them as nest scavengers, and that that's apparently they are not nearly is as bad as we previously thought based on his study. So that may stir the pot a little bit, but I thought I would bring that up. Well, I think his point was like, the hen is getting killed off the nest and then, you know, the raccoons are scavenging. The eggs that would not have hatched. So are your findings in your life well, along those lines. Aka say the three main one are the ones with nine, you know, skunks, cans, possum. I can't believe that they are not a factor, particularly now, because at one time when fur markets were good, you know, you you could people wanted to trap absolutely. But now they don't because there's no market. That's right. So you think if you just walk and look on roads on your hunting club or where you hunt, look at the number of contract. Now they're everywhere. It's amazing how fast they reproduce. Yeah. And they've got to eat something. We also interviewed some trappers a few weeks ago and they said, absolutely, you know, those species you mentioned are in much higher number than they used to be. So I'm going to quote again, Dr. Hirsch, that's where I am. And I'll quote whoever I learned it from. But his he had seven areas in state the year. He I don't know. He would have been in the nineties maybe that he had radio collared hands on and they were all public and stuff. And so he's his numbers from that year 92% of all the eggs laid were eaten by nest. Now that concern that's tough to get. By That's right and so he said now of the and one of the things he made an impression about because we talked about the more natural mortality of like a buck from a being a year and a half older becoming a six year old or whatever. Same thing about turkeys. It just impressed on me. Anyway, so he said so you've got eight that arrived. He said, Six of those eight will get eaten by something before they're 14 days old. And that could be again, he said in his findings, the raccoon specifically was the worst even that that killing pols. Yes, but there were other than that starting maybe a fox or bobcat or something to catch them. So he said, so that year, that's how tough it was. You get two out of a hundred, they would actually make it to worse. But but the thing that struck me way back then, I've always just kind of like magic, he said. The magic date is at 14 days. He said the mortality rate of a 14 day old PO, they can now flutter up and get off the ground is not even 5% to become a two year old before. So his point to everybody from what he found, at least back then, if you can just hatch them and get them to 14 days old, you've won the battle. When they can fly up to roost, their chances of survival increases exponentially. Yep. Yeah. Have you had any experience like the Midwest states where they do these big coon cole and shoots like they go out with these electronic calls and during the middle of the day and they'll kill a hundred or so Coons. I only know you. Carl Coon yeah. And it was atrocious for me. You need to check it out. It's pretty videos of that. It looks fun. Exciting. Yeah. Yeah. There's like, coon trapping competitions around that we know we're all familiar with, but I hadn't heard of the Colin. I either. Yeah, that's. There is noticeably more raccoons now than. Yeah, no doubt about it. Yeah. No market for their head. And we're feeding them everywhere too. So that doesn't look like that's going to get better any time soon because it doesn't seem like there's more trappers wanting to get into it or in the fur market. It doesn't look like it's coming. Well, you know, people that stay or coon hunt and we've got a people that stay open, you know, they love those hounds and little to hear. But, you know, when the market's good, there's a pretty good incentive for them to shoot. Right now. There's not. You know, when I was a kid, I confronted with a guy and he wouldn't shoot the coyote. Most of them. We'd get to the tree and have all that fun, and he'd love on his dogs. Yeah. And then we go, Yeah. That was tune chasing. Yeah, it was. Yeah. That's what. Bobby, you ought to do that with turkeys. Just call up. Let him. I'd love for him to do that. Yeah, well, yeah, Mr. Benny, what do you think, though? Wild hogs have had an impact on Wild Turkey has certainly. Yeah. Great question. no doubt. You know, you can just look at the places that hogs occur and look at the area that they disturb and the food that they consume. So they are a direct competitor with not only turkeys, everything that eats acreage and seeds and bugs they are competitive, will no doubt. I'm not so sure they only as bad or worse than the NEST program. I mean, you know, they're going to make good money if they see. And I don't mean they go looking for nest, but you know, they'll eat anything if they if they come across, they're going to eat. And they also frequent the sites that turkeys regular regularly hang out from about February to April, you know. Yeah. And there's a conversation about them going through that. We've talked about this a lot. The small acorns that used to be left over. Yeah. Yeah. They're going to, like, vacuum cleaner. Yeah. The little, little small lake and Retta. I mean, the early turkey season, it was all you could just count on their be in those big hardwoods, especially like willow water. Yeah. Those small like rooms that are last the winter. And that's where they're fun and food before everything is up and it was just hardwood. And now there's it's like a desert where we have all these, all those. Yeah. They are sayers competitive. bear sayers. So, Mr. Bennett, did you have somebody that talked to you had a turkey hunt or did you figure it out on your own? One little deal. And I took it on myself to become turkey owner. And you cannot imagine the mistakes we made. But they were learning mistakes, but we learned it on our own. And course, we got, you know, at that time when when you begin to have mouth you uppers, you know, we would steal our wives ashtrays and cut them pieces out and make our own mafia. For a while. I never know about that. yeah. Did you ever use the lid? Yes, that's what I started with. yeah. God. From Mobil. Jack Davis. Yeah, those. So you started the airport? Well, the diaphragm to me was the easiest to use. You didn't have hand movement. Now I've got an old slate that's nearly as old as I am that I would not go without it. And I've got a friction called. It's called a big Jake. my goodness. yeah. That, I had one of those and it said Big J kill Michael Mississippi. And I feel it. And in fact I've used it so much I've got a little groove in the lift. That's incredible. That I wouldn't go without. That. Ian How long. I lost mine. If there's any listeners that could help me. yeah, I'm sure. And there's another person we need to bring into this mix, his wife, Miss Betty. I mean, she is Let him go all over the world. He's got I mean, in his house there's there to tell him what what's go you got in there? What's in the right corner over there. The school L I've got African lions go. yeah, No leopards go. yeah. I've got a mountain lions go. I've got a grizzly bears girl. But by but even more impressive than that, the hippopotamus. Yeah, I've got a hippopotamus. Go. my God. Yeah. This mountain lions. God, didn't happen to come from Mississippi, you know? No, there goes again. Bobby is always looking to stir up some kind of drool. No, if there's is one. Yeah, Yeah. If there is a mountain land in the state of Mississippi, he or she was released from a cage. There are no native mountain lions in the state of Mississippi. There you go, Bobby. So you can see the conspiracy theories. How did that we get this? Like Panther calling creek in Panther? Well, Iraq, those came from the Indians. And there possibly were some mountain lions in this country in the in those days. But they have not been a mountain land confirmed killer sighting since the 1900s. Bob was just so brave, so sure. You said. yeah, they are. Yeah. They're in this killer named. Well, you know, Jelani, of course, as a biologist, people are going to tell you, I heard one hollered last night. Well, believe it or not. What? They. They heard something screaming. Yeah But what it probably was was a. Fox 100%. And I agree with you that. Yeah. Yeah, they do make a crazy noise. Yeah, they do. Can you imitate that, Dudley? That fox? It sounds like a screech. I mean, it's. Yeah, Yeah. Mr. Benny, I've got a question. What was the black bear population like when you were doing this inside the levee? Practically nonexistent. But that is changing all alone. You know, we're getting more bears. They're being watched in radio tagged. And that's another thing that's going make the Mississippi Delta so attractive is these additional areas that are being becoming woodlands. Right. That is expanding the bear habitat greatly. So it must at some time or another is those bear populations increase. we'll probably have a short bear say which is great, you know. Yeah. Florida had one. Yeah, we saw Bear my son. So I want to. Experience again Knox County. No. Here. really. I thought. Yeah. No it's. It's place, buddy. yeah. In fact, he, he took a picture of the track and sent it to Jason, our Jason Redding here. And he said, that's a bear truck. yeah, Well, I know. I saw the bears good legs on. It was a small one. He said that's the first official sighting in Clay County that they know of. He said, but I doubt it sticks around. There's like been young males coming over from another mama all up in through here. Yeah. Here and there in different counties. But then they hadn't taken up residence that they know of yet so. Looking for a breeding opportunity. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. How, but. Steve, what are we not asking, You know, all these stories I want to. I would love to hear some old stories about trapping turkeys or releasing turkeys or catching poachers or is anything. Steve Ringing any bells? Mr. BENNY That would be good stories, of course. You know, I can talk about trapping and locating turkeys in my sleep because that was my life. But, you know, that part of the procedure is over to people. You know, at times, like when we were trapping on Woodstock, Allen goes at trapping in Woodstock Island. You just don't drive over there. You got to take a fade, you know, with that. So when we were trapped in there, Wayne and myself and a couple of other guys, we would go over there and after a few days we would catch a group of turkeys and go at it because of the difficulty getting there, I would call officers from wherever the release was approved to come to the Mississippi River over on the other side, on the Arkansas side, because that's where you had to go in. And sometimes, you know, they they would get impatient waiting hours and they'd get hungry and cause they'd have to go somewhere and get somebody. So when I would come across a ferry on the ferry with the turkeys and they wouldn't let go. So I get pretty aggravated and, you know, never did lose my friends over. But we had some discussions about it that when they came to get turkeys, they were to there. So things like that, you know occur. It's just human nature you problem you have to deal with. Yeah, sure, sure. Why don't you why don't you tell us the story of your first turkey. Take us back to, what, 1970? 1970. My friend wound to me alive with Zimmer, Mississippi, which is in Atallah County, right close to the Winston Camp land. And we had heard it, I think maybe we were in our seventh or eighth day of hunting. He and I would not together, but we would go to the same area. And I had been to this turkey, I think, seven days in a row. And for some reason or another he was owned by a creek. I was on the hill above it. And for some reason or another, when I called to him, he was still on the roost. He flew right to the range that I was on and somehow or another I killed him. Is that sweet? Yep. And you know. Where, you know, he hadn't paid me much attention to. They had him on the right now. Yeah. Yeah. But that was the first turkey I ever killed. And of course, I got to maybe hear what no one came up. And course we looked at him and just, you know, just over. I know how good a turkey was.

And I got home about 9: 1:16:22

00 that morning and my wife was not there, and I on the back porch of my house with that turkey in my lap until she got home about 1130 so she could see why. Yeah, that's how proud I was. I. Did you see him pitch to you? Yeah. man. Yeah. Is tight. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think that happens as much anymore. You know, like parading your your trophy around. Yeah, Like. I on our first squirrel. Taken it to both sets of grandparents. We do that with our kids now. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. If somebody shot a spike when I was a kid, so were the late sixties or even early seventies around here. They put it on the hood of their bronco. Right? Right. So everybody. Yeah. My first turkey. I made the Canton, Mississippi newspaper. Really? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. The grandson of, you know. Yeah. Grabs his. Yeah, we. We had That's quite a bit around. Here Bobby. You want to you want a story tell about Mississippi Inns and how they are innovative in what they can come up and do. My son and I were hunting this turkey back in 2019, and I we knew one of the guys in there had buggered him up a couple of times. He shot at him and whatever. So covered you come around and saw us playing college baseball and like shut him down and sent him home. And we we're hunting every day. So we were hunting this turkey and I never experienced a turkey like this. This turkey would not roost in the same tree. He wouldn't do anything same. He went down a different way. You try to call to him, he's not going to do it. And so we started with him going to surround him one day. He he figured it out. He got in a creek. He walked the creek out of there. I mean, this turkey, I mean, and we just couldn't do anything with him. The last day of the season, we killed a bird we thought was him. It was it it was a sailboat in Turkey with him. So the next year and my son was back playing college ball again. And so I don't even really go over that. I got a different place. And then 22 comes around. We put a camera out there and I see that turkey. And I said, That's that dang turkey, because what he would do is he had to gobbles. We had one gobble that he would go on to say it's okay for everybody to talk and no. And then he had a one gobble when he did it that was it. No hands, no gobbling for the rest of the day to the next morning. So we go out there that 22 season and that song and does that stuff and that's a turkey. So the last day of March we lay eyes on him, we hunt him. All this time we laid eyes on him and he had 27 hands with him. So I told Lynn, I said, I saw one you podcast not too long ago, and I said, You got to be where they going to be? I said, He hadn't done anything like this before. We're going to go in there. So we went in there like dirt and we got in there. So early that morning we didn't say a word. You called him one coming so right about daylight. He's out there about 80 yards in front of me on the limb. So that hands did exact perfectly pitch down on either side of me. And he drops down right there and he does like this and he starts walking. He's about 50 yards and he gets about five yards and he just stops and he does this like this. I said you song and you. So it looked good. So I seen it. Well, I when I sit down those roots, I had to get on the side of the tree Some turn like this but at three and a half inch man and when I when I shot it, it set me back, you know. Well, I saw the turkey roll. Well, then I see land. And get up and start running. I don't see the turkey. And he runs on our side. But 10 minutes he comes back, he's out of breath. He then you buggered him up. He got up this hard and he dropped me run whatever. And he got away. We looked for that turkey for four and a half, 5 hours because we knew that turkey probably six years old. So he can have some hooks devastated. We get in the truck and we're headed back. Was in lakes in Mississippi, coming back to Kansas. Go. And then just out of the blue there, I was at Mississippi State a month ago and heard some guys talk about a guy that's supposed to go down the track, a wounded turkey. I said, no that ain't right. That that's just not right. So I said, well, I know a guy in Lewisville that has got the best deer hunting tracking dog in probably in the nation if true, he'll know about it. So I called and he said, I'm on my way to Kentucky right now. My son or I bring smoke and he probably would find it. But that is true. There's a man in Webster County, this cattle dog. They will track that turkey. I said, I need to get a hold of this man. So he got about 3 hours went by and he finally said, I got him. He can be there at 430. I said, 430 is better than 30. So we met up at the gas station on 55. We went to Lexington drove right in there and there's a kudzu, a kudzu patch that ends up in the hollow where that turkey was Atlanta. I said, he's in that kudzu somewhere we can't find. So we get it. He he comes up, he's got a little Britney spaniel, little dog named Oakley. We look, we pull right down there to throw log and road was where the where the kudzu was. And he said, now, look, I'll tell you when it when she gets on it, if she does and then you just stand still we walk we leave within about 40 seconds and that dog went left. He said, go, stop. I went out there and it made a circle. It came back, back growls. He said, She is own turkey, Do not move. She goes out and they could repair it and she looks like something going into the the bowl of a down at all it she started about 40 yards and then she's at 35 and then and then all of a sudden she disappeared And when she come up of there, she had that gobbler. goodness. I said, Dad. Yes, it was dead. And it was it had all it had six year old hooks on it. So I'm out of that turkey and. You love it. I love it. Now. We got pictures. Of that now up there. And that guy, he's from Webster County. Who this a guy. Doug Burgess. I have never heard of such. You need this man's number, Bobby. And I will. Not say that. I never hear. That. I don't know. Lady Lane. He's good at finding Fats and turtles. You know. You and I did. That's a great story, too. I forgot. Next time we tell stories, laying up on one day shot in L.A., found it like way out in back water. Yeah, He was like, way knee deep back, water on a little low pile. He was amazing. The same thing, though he was. I had to crawl up in the log. Well, I actually just heard his wing. Yeah, he's in there. Yeah. But lady said he looked, and you can't see this on the radio. He looked down and he looked in there, was looking up in there all. Sudden there was a kind of a cave looking spot on. There's a hole in there in. This turkey to head. Looking back at it. The channel began. He said he's have a lot of kids, you know, think so. I went back down and see what happened with the honeysuckle bush right in front of the turkey at daylight. And so it just took it all down into his breast then, you know. But he was you know, he carried it and then he died. Yeah, but that was that was the biggest turkey that that I've ever killed, especially in State of. And he was fixing to get lost over there. And that dog found that for me. Yeah. I was the first I've heard of anything like that. Yeah. He trained it he A-Train that down track turkeys you know from that standpoint. So yeah right here in Mississippi. Wow. That would be a good breed for that. I grew up with a Brittany. I did too, I'm sure. Yeah, that was my Bourdeaux. Well, Mr. Barney, what are we not asking you that we should that you when you were riding over here, you said, Boy, if these knuckleheads got any kind of smarts about him, about this. Well, I've got a couple of questions I'd like to throw out in saying get your reaction. here we go. Trivia that we were you. Yeah. All right. Today's trivia is brought to you by Sheffield Financial Fuel. Your gamekeeper projects with financing for power sports, outdoor power equipment and trailers begin your next conservation venture at Sheffield Financial Datacom. So when we do a trivia question, Mr. Benny, we always play for somebody that's left a review and they've got a chance to win a prize. And I would say with us answering the question we've got, he's got a pretty good chance of winning this, probably. About that set up for failure. We did. And he's forgotten more about tigers than we'll ever know. Yeah, well, okay, So, Matt, who are we playing for. Sir, real quick? So you ask one person a question. Now you've got one person asking for people a question. So good answer. Your odds are a little higher. So that I understand that. So you're jinxed it now. So there's no way we get it. All right. So the prize is going to be the number three game keeper turkey vest. And you can use if you don't if this isn't you, you can go to game Keeper Field Wired.com and use podcast two five. You can get 25% off. Wow, that's a great deal. Yeah, it's a really good deal. So Mr. Benny, the guys behind the turkeys are playing for Who's our gamekeeper? That's who. I bet he's from Indiana. Look at lamb. Look at that came from. All right, who's are we going to try to We're going to try to win your vest here. So ready? Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Okay. Being turkey hunters, you know that you're required to report your harvest the day the day you have it. You have the 10 p.m. that day to report your harvest on the app, the turkey reporting app. My question is, what percent of the people that harvest turkeys do you think report them? Woo hoo hoo hoo hoo hoo! As a good guess, Lanny, why? Why is it always about Lanny? Get a little. I've heard is quoted. I have heard it. I remember all I can remember is I this like alarmingly low. Yeah, I think it's a low Number two. I think. 30. I remember 38%. I had 36 in my head. So that's that's close. I remember Rickie venting us about how bad it was. Year one. I'm on. You said 36, you got 38. Flip flop that I. Think I'm going to go. I'll trade with you. I'll take 36. I'm going to go 27. How y'all have any faith? But I'll go 39. I'm going to go 60. Even though I'm not even in on this. You're in on this. I feel good about the Mississippians reporting their turkeys. Well, you'd be disappointed in the information that I have is that the not reported harvest owned. The app that you're supposed to use with your phone is about 40% of the harvest toxic. So. You know. Probably cut me off 30. 930. Eight. What you didn't. Have the reports. You know that's kind of disappointing. Is disappointing. Yeah. And then I have another question to ask you that related to this is, you know, starting at 25, turkey hunters will have to take their harvest. There will be a physical tag issued and you will be required to put it on the turkey before we move. That's right. You cannot even pick it up and carry it out. This is hot off the press. My question is, do you think that will increase the amount of reported hours? Having that physical tag, having to be owned? And do you think that will make any difference? I would hope so. Personally, I do too. I've been a huge fan or proponent of that. I've heard great reports from the other states. So I do believe it will help our officers enforce it better. That I do believe. So if they are if they are at suspicion people and, you know, it's just so easy for somebody to avoid it, you know, on the phone out deal. But if you in any way, shape or form have a turkey in your possession without the tag on it, they can get you now. So I do think it'll help some. Now the the the void between the reporting, I don't know. I hope it improves. I just hope people realize how valuable that information is. And I somewhat make decisions. But I do think it's going to help them be able to enforce it better. What do you think? Yeah. What do you guys think? Well, my opinion is that the guy that won't use his phone to report is not going to put the tag on. Now, that's my opinion. So if he's already doing it wrong, I don't think he's gonna change. No, I'm not. If you're if you're on the borderline, and then particularly if you've got an officer or officers in the county that are checking them. Now, that may influence your thinking a little bit about, well, if I drive you, if I walk from here to Metro and there's an officer sitting there and I don't have the tag on that turkey, I'm automatically in violation. So I say that is a plus. Well, I just yeah, it it is hard. I mean, they started in Alabama, too, and that's where I do most of my hunt. Alabama and Mississippi. But you have to train your mind to remember to do it. We've never done it a whole lot. So you go to somewhere like Texas, and it's I mean, everybody out there knows you don't mobile not an inch to you put that tag at the tag. And so we're used to doing it out there. You know, people have got to I don't know. What they're gonna make out. Of respect your opinion on that, I hope. But I do think even if no more people actually Daigle, I do believe it's going to be there'll be more opportunities to enforce it now. That we're. Away. Yeah. So that yeah, that's one good thing. And I think especially it seems like from listening and I don't know this at all, you would know more than me. A lot of the problems with illegal harvest are like, just like kind of here and there, and it'd be individuals that are a huge problem more so than a bunch of people she won over blame or something. There's just out of control. People have no respect for the resource and it might help them with people like that, you know? Well, hopefully it will, because, you know, the average turkey hundred Mississippi harvest is just about one point. Hey, Turkey per season. So those people you don't worry about, it's the ones that exceed the limit excessively is the one that hopefully some anything you do that deters that will be a help. Yeah so so if I guess we'll we will go and we'll buy an additional turkey stamp in addition to our license and that will include the tags as well. My understanding is if purchase a license, you if you turkey hunt, then you will have to that I think the tags will be proven it. Right. But they will be a turkey tag. Now, my next question or get your opinion on is to actually mention that there should be a turkey stamp are available in probably about 25, maybe 20. So my question is, do you think Turkey owners were fully supported or not? I think fully support the Turkish stamp judges from our limited I. Think a vast majority will. Well, everybody is now done. It earmarked the dollars to go directly for turkeys. Right. I mean, that's. Like the U.S. stamp. Yeah. So these things aren't mutually exclusive. Like, I don't buy the stamp to get my tags. My tags will come with my license. Interesting. That's my my. Yes, sir. That's usually the way it works. I'm looking at the bill right. Now, and you gather what bill say. So it made it through the Senate yesterday to auction? Yes. Yeah, I'll talk to you. Those your wife's glasses or that was your. I've. I've read some negative comments about the no stamp. Sorry. So you think you have. Folks just saying, like, it's just another tax we got to pay, you know, for our free resources. I don't mind paying tax when it goes to wildlife. I agree. I don't know if I. I probably don't need to be reading this bill aloud, but I do know who sent it to me to get some help when all said want to call it and I'm coming for it. We're having a bill introduced for Mississippi Turkey stamp and this will go with a physical tag starting 2025. Okay. And it mentioned that that's also going to go back to Turkey conservation. Yeah. Great. So you get you get your tags. Yes. Gotcha. That's I think it's like I mean. This is public knowledge right now. You can probably go online somewhere and look it up. What? I don't need to be one person at of people reading it right now. So this is a step in the right direction. Yeah. I mean, look. I mean. Yeah, we'll learn. More, but right and wrong. Wrong somewhere. Right? Definitely a step in the right direction. Mr. Mayor, do you think our our season dates and our bag limits across the south are where they need to be or do they need to be tweaked. Now this is my personal page. You know, to me, we have too long. The turkey season. The reason I say that because the methods of turkey hunting have changed so much. Yes. That we have all day hunting. And for from March the 15th to May the first. Well, it's what, March 7th now with youth or. Well, including the youth, I usually don't include them. But you really should, because. But what I'm getting at is that the methods of turkey hunting have changed so much because now the preferred method of turkey hunting is getting old age of a feel and a plan and put out a spray or decoys. And if you have to stay there till noon or all day. So that has increased the turkey hours tremendously. Now, I don't have any problem of that, but where do you stop then? You know, and if you've got a shorter season or maybe quail launch, then you reduce the harvest. This right now reduce and harvest those two things. It gives everybody kind of an equal opportunity. And plus it allows more gobblers to go into the older age place. And that for the real challenge is harvest in four or five year old gobbler. And now he's seen it all. So you got your work cut out for you then. But now those are personal opinions. So we're Dr. Chamberlain has verified that having a higher gobbler to hand ratio, we're just killing our golfers. And only a few to breed is really a big headwind to raising more turkeys. Yeah, and you're going to be a lot more successful if you let more golfers, you know, if you manage to wear you know, you have a higher percentage of golfers there. In fact, I will say, you know, kudos to the state of Alabama and I think more follow it, right, Wrong or indifferent. They're just sending the message, we're going to do what's best for turkeys, even if it's a little inconvenience. You know. That should be the money. That's right. The come first. So they move the season back ten days, whether it's the right thing to do or not. I'm not here to argue. But they made a sacrifice on my behalf. And then for the first ten days, you can't use a decoy. really? Yeah. So what they're saying is that there's 20 days longer, and they do believe there's a much higher likelihood you won't harvest as many of the balls gobblers with the big hair on my hands. Yeah, because the research indicates harvest in that turkey early in the season is a big detriment to raising the long turkey. So, I mean. Right. We're overdue for. I'm just saying I applaud them for taking steps they believe are in the best interests of the resource. I agree with that. Anywhere we got. Yeah, yeah, I agree. And as far as in our bank, Lehman in Mississippi, three I mean, that's the planning. Yes. I mean, if you can harvest three turkeys in a season in Mississippi, that's great. But that's enough. Yeah. I mean, the research is proven that we need to back it up. We'll do whatever brings up a good point to be more effective than we've been before. that's. Boise. Yes. The calls. The call, everything. The Kamau. Yeah, everything is a danger. So I wish we knew accurately the harvest. And sad to know, we don't even know what we think that maybe only 40% make forwarded. So yeah. So what do you think COVID did to that hunting season? We'll go hunt there. Everybody was in. Camouflage. I think it's like you were saying with your on, we heard stories about like the hunting clubs, guys that never turkey hunted. They were just sitting in shooting with a decoy. Right. All of a sudden everybody's talking, right? Yeah. And that's not what we think of when we think of Turkey. HUNT Right. Well, now, when you think of turkey hunting, gosh, you know, when I started Turkey, when you went to a spot, you listen. If you were fortunate enough to hear one, then you tried to get a couple of hundred yards or 100 yards. I mean, you said ambush archery. If they beat you, you get it. Went home occasionally. You'd beat and you'd win. But and but that was it. You had no decors. You got camouflage as good as you could and stage daily you could. And and to this day, that's how I turkey. Yeah, yeah. Same here. But the average turkey in Mississippi didn't do it that way anymore. That has changed. Yeah. Good point. So my, my biggest thing is not just, you know, not even passing judgment on that. Look, don't let the states decide what to do. You're not just not even as much how we kill them as how many. I mean, that's the biggest thing is number, man number manage to have an abundance of the wildlife that we love. And then you know what? We're going around as much we can and kill as many as is you know good form deal but I just keep in my mind is like we're pushing hard to be sure a big healthy abundance of the stuff we love. Yeah because like quail taught me you may and we love quail hunt so much. My daily quail and every day and then we lost them. And I've always lived in fear that when I see turkey. Slip. Yeah is like we whatever we got to do to have abundant numbers. Yeah, that's what we need to do. Mr. Bean, is there all these years that you turkey is there, is there a good tip that you could leave us with somebody listening to this could improve their turkey hunting by listening to a tip from. Yeah, get up and go every morning. How you go there. Yeah. At the. That's. And I will I. Will do that this year. Yeah. I mean you know the system is that you're making him do something that he doesn't normally do. Yeah. The hands go to him. Right. So what you're, you're reversing that situation and when you do when if worth ever effort you put into it and when you lose you still had a good day. No doubt because you. Got it. You took a walk. You heard a lot of other birds calling. You saw things you wouldn't have seen if you had been at the house watching TV. So there you know, that's the the best advice if you're a turkey hunter, go when you can. You just made me smile inside. yeah, That's great. Yeah. Can you tell me another name for affiliated Woodpecker? Lord. God. Well. Hey, man. Yeah. Hey. Hey. Now, do you? Well, I was looking for something to. Get some. Pride. Okay. That's basically. Indian hens. Yes. absolutely. There we go. Bobby, We going to sit here and tweeting about bailing you out of bed questions all day? Yeah. So? But I kind of wanted to go before we. Look, we've been here a while, and then doctors had to make a restroom break. We're all talking about been in here. But you mentioned in your career you worked with the endangered species. We're hearing little rumors that there might be some ivory bills that have been seen in Arkansas or Louisiana. Are you have you heard anything about this? Yes, sir. And it was reported by Cornell University, which is the premier ornithologist, School in the Nation. They created the Merlin Bird idea. But now apply a little science to that reporting. It was this was several years ago. I was still working with endangered species when that was reported and it purported in the case river in Arkansas and this it been, I think, something like 50 years since there had been a confirmed sighted an ivory billed woodpecker. And he claims to have heard more. So they was hundreds, thousands of dollars invested in research, looking, recording, trying to find evidence of that bird. There's never been any found. So I don't know what he heard, but he wasn't an ivory billed woodpecker, obviously, because one individual cannot last that long. It has to be a population. And if you've got a population, somebody nowadays are going to see and hear those birds. So I'm saying they are not there. And the evidence backs me up. Yeah. Yeah. Sad deal. Yeah. Planning. Would you learn anything? You know, it just excites me to see a group of people like Mr. Binney, the impact they can have on the resource. I mean, when they all I really got together, the cooperation between the landowners, the desire of the hunters and they turned the, the wild Turkey population around and Mississippian I mean in a in a decade is that. Yeah. Yeah. yeah that's that's pretty amazing. Just kind of make you feel. Yeah I hope I good. We probably wouldn't be sitting here. That I'm thankful to be here today because of a bird like that. And of course I'm so appreciative that I was involved in that. I just happen to be a person in the right place at the right time. There are other people that contributed as much as Charlie, you know, and the guy that come get those turkeys, he was just as important as me. And why you sit in that kitchen, the turkeys, those it all had to be done in a sequence. Well, you're a rare breed. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean. Well, I'm an old story. Are you saying he's an endangered species? No, I tell you, his. His style, his type. Yeah, And I'm okay. I'll talk to his line to thank you for your service. Yeah, you've done. my gosh. It makes me so much even more. I mean, obviously get all carried away and get excited about what we do in our life, but it makes me so, on one hand so deeply grateful because of people like you, people like you were, especially you here in Mississippi. But to to to do even more to do our job, you know. That's right. And then even I feel good about our younger generation right now, at least a lot of them around our group. They are so conservation minded, but it just makes me want to be sure. Don't ever drop the ball on the gift you have given us here. I think. Well, that's important. You know, if you if you can't pass it on to the youth, you don't have much chance. No, you don't know. Whatever it be. Yeah. Yeah. I bet you got some bottomland in your closet. Yeah. I'll tell you what. I would love to go spend a morning turkey out. No doubt. About it. I would. I would love to do. Well. Some of my morning are pretty long. Some are very short. Yeah. You know, because I'm still if I go and don't hear a bird, you know, I'm back to the half billion in the garden or cut grass or whatever. I might have own heart. No doubt about it. That way I turkey. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, Bobby, you see the reason why I wanted you to sit down with him? I mean. Thank you. I mean, yeah, he. He's, he's a some knowledge that we still have that I just hadn't heard this put out there. Know, and an inspiration. We all need. Yeah. You know, because it's easy it's easy for without this landmark to, to listen to. It's easy to take it easy for all of us these days. You take it for good. No doubt about it. Yeah, but it forces me. I did get too fortunate to live because the Daily lived through the history of a lot of this, and it just makes you go back and then you just. What? You know, good gracious. Well have to this is the prequel to them. So to me I mean this is yeah I mean if that's this hadn't happened I firmly believe we'd be sit around this table right now. So no doubt pretty amazing. That. You were fictional I guess I can't talk. With you can't talk about that. Something cool is coming. Yeah. It's only the the weekend after. This will be the most monumental film we've ever produced, and last year will be released. But I can't say anything else than that right now. That's all we'll talk about. That's all we're going to say about when he goes. Well, that's that's a pretty teaser. Yeah. It's going to be. Legendary for sure. Well, Mr. Vinny Herring, we do. We just salute you. We thank you. Thank you. Yeah. And I think. What's your wife's name? Mary. Mary. Yeah. Yeah. When she was ready to have to leave. You know, I. My I married way above my standard. Yeah. Well, she she was like me. She grew up poor, working hard, educated herself, became great teacher and all of that. I mean, I've been gone a lot. Be gone a week at a time. I've been all over the world, fortunately. And she has never the first time complained about it. Wow. That's a winner right there. I'm telling you. As my daddy would say, we need to get a pint of her blood and spread it out amongst the masses. That's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, yeah, she was. She was my main supporter. Wow. Yeah, That's awesome. Well. That's awesome. Well, gosh, look, we appreciate her by listening to our podcast Leaving Review, so, Mark, you look like you got something to add to that. So we just came out with some new t shirts. and Dolly's got one of them all. Yeah. Listen, learn and enjoy. And we got some new leads to and that. Very short. Lived. So this is a podcast t shirt chef. Listen, learn and enjoy. Yeah, that's kind of what we did today. It's game keeper shop dot com. That's right. Yeah. Thank you, Mac. Thank you. So now he always keeps us on track. He does. And so we appreciate it by listening. And it's just so much fun to bring stories like this and make sure people get to hear this. Is my favorite one. I'm going say right now, it's a good it's a good one right here. Yeah. We're it's so good We're even though Let Laney buy lunch today. All right. Let's do it. I love yeah. All right. Why don't you say goodbye, Dudley? Goodbye, Dudley. Get us out of here. Rob, thanks for. Tuning in to this week's episode of the Game Kicker podcast, and be sure to tune in. Again. Subscribe to. Gamekeeper Farming for Wildlife magazine and don't. Miss the Maceo Properties Fistful of Dirt. Podcast with My Good Veronica Strickland and.