SPEAKER_02 0:00

I'm Jeff Foxworthy, and welcome to Gamekeeper Podcast. If you want to learn more about farming for wildlife and habitat management, then buddy, you are in the right place. Join the Gamekeeper crew direct from Office Yoke Land Enhancement Studios as they discuss the latest wildlife and habitat management practices. News and of course money. There's no telling what you'll learn, but I'm going to tell you. I bet it's interesting. Enjoy.

SPEAKER_00 0:26

We're live in three, two, one.

SPEAKER_09 0:29

All right, guys. It's one of the best times of the year to be a game keep. Time to be game. That's exactly right. Late August. Molo's buzzing. You can feel the air kind of the temperature. The sulfur butterflies are moving, dustitons right on the horizon. Those beautiful yellow butterflies have called a sulfur. Isn't that right, Bronson? Right. Correct. So guys, we'll go ahead and get look get everybody introduced so they can jump in here. We've got right to left sitting over there with a big smile on his face. We've got Dr. Bronson Strickland. Not an entomologist, by the way. That's right. And sitting next to him is Mitt Wardlock. I tell you, you guys, uh we're we j we all just got back, except for Lanny. He had some kind of something come up. But we all went down to a really neat event in Gainesville where uh Marcus Lashley, Dr. Marcus, was raising some funds to support his turkey research. That was really I I really enjoyed that.

SPEAKER_04 1:25

I did too. Um and and seeing those live birds, even for a deer guy, that that was pretty impressive. I couldn't those turkeys, being able to interact with them so closely.

SPEAKER_03 1:35

It was fascinating. I saw some of the photography and I asked Bobby, I was like, You didn't you didn't bring us one home?

SPEAKER_08 1:40

You know, it'd be great to have around the office, that's for sure. Yeah, they were really cool and listening listening to them talk and chat.

SPEAKER_03 1:46

I could that's what I was thinking, and I didn't get a chance to go, but I was like, man, I would just love to lay in there and just listen, you know, to the noises that they were raspy, some of them were high pitched, some of them were more talkative than others.

SPEAKER_09 1:58

A lot of a lot of micro clucking going on. Oh, you just barely hear bubble clucking.

SPEAKER_08 2:03

Yeah, that's little little mini purrs is quite.

SPEAKER_06 2:06

Yeah. Lanny, you could have put a cricket in your pocket and he'd have got on a plane with you, too. Yeah, I bet he would have. No doubt about it.

SPEAKER_09 2:13

They love crickets. There's no doubt about that. But look, uh, but here we are late August, though. Mitt, I'm looking at you. That it's an exciting time because people are fixing to start here where we are. Guys up north have been doing it, have been planting for a while, but right now it's our time.

SPEAKER_05 2:29

Yep.

SPEAKER_09 2:30

And like usual, uh, there's a little bit of hint of rain, but not much. Everybody's waiting on the rain. Oh, well, how does that what do you what do you say about that?

SPEAKER_06 2:39

You know, it's always the the time of year and and and your your sensories and overload at different seasons. Well, this time of year, coming from an ag background, the dust in the air from from corn harvest and defoliant in the air. That that's the the trip for me. It's just starting to think about football season, hunting season, food plot time, dove season. Um, all those things are synonymous in my mind. I'm ready.

SPEAKER_03 3:03

It's such a great time of year.

SPEAKER_08 3:05

I used to love going down that last hill on the way to the Mississippi Delta, and you could start smelling that defoliant. Yes, sir. And then, you know, you're going west, and that, like you said, all that dust in the lower atmosphere makes for a better sunset. It really does. Yeah. You hit you hit the nail on the head with that.

SPEAKER_09 3:23

So uh you guys are here, y'all. Uh that this uh the the business wildlife investment. We've been we've been talking independent. Uh Bronson, you've been here numerous times. You may even be the most frequent guest we've got here. I know he is.

SPEAKER_03 3:36

I mean, he was the first one. I know that for sure.

SPEAKER_09 3:39

Yeah. And Mitch you've been here a time or two. The the podcast you did when we had that freeze about three years ago. Oh, that was a great one. It really was a really good educational podcast. You're you got both of you guys are super smart in what you do. And it and now you started wildlife investments to help guys be able to manage their properties. Can would you tell us a little bit about that, right?

SPEAKER_06 4:00

So, you know, that's been a a brainchild of mine and Bronson's that we've been talking about for a long, long time. And over the last two or three years, we've really put legs to that and and started organizing our thoughts and and developing a team. But really, the the concept goes around wildlife management and and habitat uh uh management. And so if you think about um, you know, property management from the neck up and coming alongside these landowners to help, you know, develop the ideas of uh whatever resource concern they may have, whether it be increased turkey populations or I want to grow bigger deer, whatever that is, we've got uh basically a dream team put together. Um, you know, from you know, if you have interest in turkeys, we've got you know, Marcus and Will on board, um, you know, quail, ducks, obviously deer. Uh, you know, when we all get in the room, I'm I'm generally the dumbest one in the room. So we've got a really, really good team put together that, you know, somebody can can come to our organization and whatever resource concern they have, whether it be food plot, habitat management, or the biology of whatever critter they're after, we can absolutely help them with that. So um it's been a lot of fun putting it together, and we're growing like gangbusters, and so we're we're having a lot of fun right now. Well, it makes a lot of sense.

SPEAKER_03 5:21

It does. And and you know, your background and ag too, just talking to you earlier about how prescriptive y'all are getting uh with even in in within the food plots about soil types and drainage and everything else. It reminds me of of when the uh the precision ag rolled around a few years ago, and y'all are taking that mentality to wildlife, and it's really cool.

SPEAKER_09 5:41

That's a great analogy. Well, thank you. Yeah, that's Landing comes up with every night. Every night, man. That blind hog will find it. Yeah, it is precision.

SPEAKER_08 5:51

But when you when you say dream team, you're you're right. Uh, you know, having to go gone to school with some of these folks or and just being around you guys near in and around the university, uh, you know. Y'all just got all the golden children from the I mean, y'all got it. Yeah, it is a dream team.

SPEAKER_06 6:09

And and I can say this too, and and that they probably won't. Um, but one thing that I've observed is there's a lot of great wildlife biologists, you know, in this circle. And so you can't get on social media without, you know, seeing a myriad of guys out there that are doing this service. But the the need that I saw, and what I've I've observed, is a lot of these guys that are out there selling their service are really regurgitating what these guys are saying. So why not give you know the landowner an opportunity to go straight to the horse's mouth, the guys that are doing the research and and putting that stuff on the ground, giving them opportunity to hear it straight from their mouth.

SPEAKER_03 6:48

And I can say too, just by knowing Bronson a long time and and uh Lashley too, they love the animals. You know, it it is a pure love for the animals, it really is. And they come from a hunting background, which uh to me gives you more perspective, obviously, on what y'all are doing than anything.

SPEAKER_06 7:04

So they're not just scientists, they're they're real practitioners. They're real practice, that's right.

SPEAKER_09 7:08

And Bronson, you've had a you've been uh exposed to so many thoughts and why people asking why, and and having a budget to go try this and that. Some of the things you've learned, you we probably hadn't been able to pull it out of your mind yet, just everything you know about deer and how you could apply that to making a guy's place better.

SPEAKER_04 7:30

It's been uh it's been a lot of fun. I have really enjoyed. Uh I was analyzing deer data last night. And so I'm actually getting back to doing some of the things that I've all that got me into uh research to begin with. So that that's been probably the funnest thing for me is understanding that. It's also the practical side now of working with people and the application because the the science is there and the science is solid, but making the science work requires working with people and understanding their perspective. And so the the sociology of it is uh is definitely a new challenge. Uh, but but I'm enjoying it and I'm enjoying working with people and getting their perspective. And uh it's really gratifying seeing the progress that they're making. That has been a lot of fun. So I'm I'm really enjoying what we're doing now. Yeah, well that's good. That's cool.

SPEAKER_09 8:27

I can see he's you know he's always had eyes listening. That's right. He's all he's always been excited over when when we're talking to him. And you know, Braunchton through the years, if we've ever had a problem, we've called and we got great advice, great, great answers. And now basically anybody can can tap into the colour. He's not gonna answer your phone call anymore, Bobby. Well, I hope that doesn't happen. I may block you in a lot of it. He'll give you about 20% of what you need to do. So, Mitt, when you think about going back to Lanny's precision now, I got Lenny, you teed that up perfectly. That was a great segment into understanding what they're doing and explaining, huh? So, what do what do you see that like I mean, you know, the average guy, maybe he's in a hunting club, maybe he's got some land leased or whatnot. What do you see them failing to do when managing for let's just talk about deer for right now.

SPEAKER_06 9:16

Yeah, so you know, I'm gonna I'll play off uh Lanny's analogy with the precision ag. And so coming from from big ag background, you know, thinking about the contrast between the way that we manage production agriculture versus that that we typically think about food plots, um, there's a lot of things I feel like that that the normal landowner may be missing in ways that we could really tighten that up and and and be much more productive on the food plot side. And I I would probably say on the production ag side, what we probably do a little bit better than the traditional food plot practitioner would be being very intentional and timely. Um, you think about on a food plot, and I've been guilty of this too, you you plant it in the fall, you may or may not put a little fertilizer on it, you hunt it a time or two, and you don't think about it again until this time of year is when it's time to prepare another food plot. Well, on the production side, we're we're being very, very intentional about our planting dates. And that's got a lot of application to the food plot um side also. Um, we're very intentional about the varieties and hybrids we put and where and why we're doing that and that and how and the understanding of how that affects the yield and the success of that particular um you know species that we're putting in there. And so there's a lot of parallels that I think we could learn from the production side that we could apply to the food plot side on um, you know, again, going back to the varieties that we put, not all varieties are meant for you know every soil type or every drainage pattern. And if we can really dial that in, we can be much more productive in our food plots, just like we're doing on the production side. So, you know, I would I would probably say being intentional and timely um with the decisions that we're making um could make a big, big difference. Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 11:01

Did you grow up on a farm here, Mississippi?

SPEAKER_06 11:03

I I did. I actually grew up on a hog farm uh where the delta meets the hills about 60 miles south of Memphis. Um actually most of my family were were old miss people. All my people were old miss people. So when I came to Mississippi State, I was the black sheep. And uh and so I I I came to Startville, uh got a degree in agronomy, uh, and then went to graduate school um in weed science and soil science and just never left. Um I I went to work while I was in graduate school with the current or the the was the current um uh soybean specialist in the state, Dr. Alan Blaine. And he had a program that we called the SMART program, it was a verification program. The acronym was Soybean Management Through Application of Research and Technology. And basically what we would do is we would go on the uh a farm. It was a uh we would get a waiting list, is what Alan had, and we'd go to a prospective grower and ask him, look, give us one representative field of your farm, let us make all the management decisions. Now we may ask you to do some things that are uncomfortable out of your norm, but if you'll let us do that, we'll we both could learn something. It was a raving success. I mean, the yields were going through the roof. Um, I'll give Alan credit for really setting the pace in soybean production in the Mid South. I mean, still today, Mississippi has higher production uh soybeans than any of our neighboring states, and I'm gonna give him all the credit for that. But the evolution of that process was the landowner said, Look, I see what you're doing on my small acres. I want to do that on all my acres. And that that the SMART program was only a two-year stint. And so once we left and went to somewhere else, the landowner was left, look, I want I want more. And so uh Brian Ward, we called him Bozo. Um, we were two graduate students at that time. That created an opportunity we could do a little moonlighting during graduate school. So we would come back on the weekends and consult for those growers. And so that's really the the the starting point, the the stepping on spot for Southern Ag Consulting that we have, that we have today. Um, and so it it grew. We had we got so um, you know, we got so many acres that at that time we had to make a decision that we stay with the university, we go out on our own. And we did. Alan finished his stand in administration, and when he he retired, we put it all back together with Southern Ag Consulting. And so we've got 20 consultants now. We're on several hundred thousand acres, five states. Um, so that that company's really a lot of fun to work with, and and that's that's one one spot that I spend some of my time with uh on the Southern Ad Consulting. So but hunt but I mean that's an incredible story.

SPEAKER_09 13:42

He does it so he can hunt. That's not but yeah, so you're you're we know all about that. You're as passionate about it as as everybody else around here. And it sell you travel a pretty good bit, don't you? I see photos of you of the movies.

SPEAKER_06 13:57

I I I've I've I've got a bug. I wish I'd have started at a younger age, but um the the Western hunting, the the the elk hunting, especially is is a bug now that that I don't know if I'll ever shake it. I don't think anybody can once a year.

SPEAKER_03 14:11

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 14:12

Being a turkey hunter, passionate turkey hunter that I am, I mean that just meshes so well with elk hunting. It's it's it's incredible.

unknown 14:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 14:19

Have you tried to take the the young and Mitchell with you yet?

SPEAKER_06 14:22

Not yet. So that's interesting that you say that. I've he's he's so inquisitive about Out West, and he's loved to hear stories of my elk hunting. So I've I've been trying to figure out how to introduce him to the Rocky Mountains in Out West, and I had a unique opportunity this past spring that uh I was able to take him to Idaho on a bear hunt. And so I we we lined it up with uh with an outfitter out there, and just by chance, um I said, Look, is there any way you got possibly some turkeys that are out there close? I know a few of the seasons are still open uh there at the end of May. And he said, It's funny you ask that. Matter of fact, I do. Let's fly into Spokane. I'll pick you up. We'll fly, we'll drive over to Oregon and uh hunt for two days and then drive back into bear camp. So uh, Mitchell, we flew out of uh Destin, Florida from our family beach trip, landed in Spokane, drove down to uh Oregon, and uh and Mitchell had his his first uh turkey down before dark. I know on that first day. He had a good week. Yeah, no doubt about it. So nine years old and killing two Oregon turkeys, and then finished with a uh a beautiful um blonde black bear uh in in uh Idaho was that was a special trip. Oh, no doubt about it. So I think he's hooked. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 15:36

I've been enjoying seeing him in some of your posts. He's he's pretty gung-ho for a kid.

SPEAKER_09 15:41

Yeah, yeah. I saw I saw a picture of him killing a turkey here. I thought that's right.

SPEAKER_06 15:46

Yeah, yeah. He uh yeah, he's he's turned into quite the quite the little turkey hunter. And it's really been fun to watch him as he grows and learns. And uh this past year, um, you know, I he he started, he killed his first turkey when he was five, and he was just too young and and wasn't strong enough. So we had a little support system for him on his first turkeys, but this year he sat on his own tree on his own cushion and had his gun on his own knee. And I'm gonna tell you that was a proud dad, my brother. That is a man.

SPEAKER_08 16:13

And I'm sure he I'm sure he had more fun with the turn. Oh, no, no doubt about it.

SPEAKER_03 16:17

No, it's so cool seeing him grow up like that. You really do.

SPEAKER_09 16:20

Yeah, wow. Good for him. What turkey is in Oregon that y'all hunted? Is it?

SPEAKER_06 16:24

Yeah, so both the Merriam and Rio are in Oregon. Um, we were in that spot where they're probably hybrids, so I don't know if you could call them a true Merriam. We did kill um two that were really, really white, and then two that were more buffed. And so, you know, the purist may argue that, but I I would call them, you know, a couple of Merriams and a couple of Rios we killed on the same bench. So hit the horns, Mitchell.

SPEAKER_09 16:48

Well, Andy, my phone didn't ring on that hunt, did you? He was with his son, Bobby. Approaching on family time. Bronson. Yes, sir. Yeah, we gotta get you turkey hunting.

SPEAKER_06 17:02

That would be a very sensitive subject within wildlife investments.

SPEAKER_03 17:05

Wildlife investment sounds like the same kind of turkey pecking orders at Mossio.

SPEAKER_08 17:09

Yeah. You gotta have somebody to hold the office down.

SPEAKER_04 17:14

Yeah, I've tried twisting arms and uh I've yet to be successful. I I get advice like this: you you don't want to get uh you know addicted to it. We we you know, you you don't want this passion I have for it. Yeah, you don't have time to do it. It's gonna be it's gonna take too much, too much of your time. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_09 17:30

Yeah. Well, so Bronson, this time of year as fall's approaching. Uh, your thoughts. Uh what what's on that checklist of things you need to be doing at the hunting camp?

SPEAKER_04 17:39

Yeah, well, it's uh nutritional bottleneck, is what we're dealing with now. So, like when Mitt was talking about food plots, one of the things I always think about is there's there's certain times of year where there's a lot of food for deer. But there's certain times of year, and that's gonna be late winter before spring green up, and now late summer, where even though it might appear there's a lot of food on the landscape, there's not a lot of quality food on the landscape. And so it's really um trying to think about how we can maximize and modulate the amount of food that's out there 12 months out of a year. Thinking about that a lot. Thinking about uh, we got dough harvest coming up. And uh, you know, when I talk to my state deer coordinator, William McKinley, and others, other deer biologists, is um for whatever reason, because it's a lot of work, we kind of fail to always recognize how many does need to be harvested each fall. And going back and and looking at some of this deer data, it can just be crystal clear that there's too many mouths. So the biggest thing I I'm seeing is that there's a big relationship with deer density, that it it gets so old when a biologist says, you gotta kill dose, you gotta kill dose, you gotta kill kill dose, but it's still so important. And um it gets to be so much work. Every fall, and some of the clubs we're working with when they're killing a hundred dose, two hundred dose, it becomes overwhelming. But the the thing about it is it is still so critically important, and it's having a big impact on deer quality. So some of the things we're doing, you know, we're incorporating a lot of new information, but some of the information is just the tried and true things that people often neglect because it gets kind of boring. And it's the you know, you've been recommending dough harvest for for 20 plus years, and you kind of fail to see the importance of it, but it keeps creeping back and creeping back that it's more important. Um that's a lot of what I'm seeing this time of year. Yeah. Also seeing our uh our timber markets in Mississippi in the southeast. Good point. And the glad you brought that up. That it's having with food production and uh not being able to thin those timber stands. Uh, the value of even some of the the harvest of some of the saw timber now isn't what it used to be. And so that over years and years is having a big effect. I hadn't thought about that.

SPEAKER_08 20:17

Yeah, there's there's properties in the southeast that you know they have good food plots, but that's about it. And they're like, I I can't get my trees thin. You know, what do I do?

SPEAKER_06 20:26

We're we're having to think way outside the box, Dudley, on on solutions for some of that. And and you know, when you think about, you know, how do I accomplish those? Because we're having to go to very unconventional methods now to do that because them leaving on a log truck going to the mill in some places is not even an option. Yeah. Um just mind-blowing. It really, it really is. Bronson and I, and you know, to the um to the point of we're we're trying to put our money where our mouth is, is we've started investing into properties and fixing those up and and to resale. And we even the last property that we bought, we were in that situation. So we actually had a logger come in that we kind of bartered with him to come and get this timber. You can have that timber if you will thin this at that. So, I mean, really, it was an expense to us to get it thin, but understanding the impact from long-term timber growth and the recreational value from a wildlife side, it's imperative that we thin that timber. Um, and so I think we're gonna see a trend of that more and more of us having to think outside the box.

SPEAKER_03 21:32

Yeah, which is so contrary to you know, you used to thin your timber to get some money to work on your wildlife.

SPEAKER_08 21:37

Wow. Yeah, speaking of wildlife investments, you know, that second word investments. Uh you know, if you talk to your money guy, they're gonna say you need to diversify. And uh, you know, with investments, you diversify. You don't really put all your eggs in one basket. And so I think that's what a lot of us have done in the past, and we're we're reaping that.

SPEAKER_06 21:58

Well, if you're you're paying attention to the market. markets and and what's driving land prices? I mean it's the recreational it is not the timber value we actually we actually you know on on some of our new clients we'll have them fill out a a survey just so we can get to know them and understand their objectives a little bit better on what they want to to do on their property and one of our our questions is you know how do you well how do you value these particular things from one to 10 and we'll have turkey population big deer aesthetics timber value and inevitably that timber value is we don't want to be poor stewards of that but the landowners that we're dealing with are clearly telling us that that is not my number one goal. My number one goal is recreational and I want to increase my turkey population and and I think land values are a reflection of that that's what's driving the land values now is the recreational value not necessarily the timber value.

SPEAKER_03 22:53

I agree a hundred percent big deer land yeah I mean and just a place to go you know the sense of place that you get now and you know with your families and and everything else I mean having a track even if it's a small track with a lake on it I mean the amount of value you get out of that is is is more than the timber value. It really is. So um it's it's I've seen that myself watching the land market over the last year.

SPEAKER_06 23:16

I think it's gonna get that historically that's been very subjective you know from the recreational value but I think we're moving into a spot now we're gonna be able to quantify that.

SPEAKER_03 25:19

Yeah and the old school landowner guys like hey you know if we can deer hunt on and I'm you know get some good cash flow that's cool. But uh now it's coming. I mean they're just seeing the value because the timber values aren't there. You think the timber value is going to come back?

SPEAKER_06 25:33

I think so I mean I'm certainly no expert in that I'm you know we're hearing you know all the rumors and the talk in there and I I really think it's gonna we it's gonna be a a a reality of what new markets are we going to have for the timber? I mean what end products are can we develop from the wood that we're that we're growing um and we need we need that type of mentality you know from the end user side and the meal side what new markets can we create um because we have certainly got a surplus of of wood especially in the southeast that we need something to consume it. No doubt about it.

SPEAKER_04 26:12

I really like too when you um and we got a forester on board too so he can go out and and you know cruise and get a get a sample of the property project the value of it but I I really like putting this on the the client and asking them is here's the projected value of the stand 10 20 30 years down the road what is that value worth to you relative to what you're giving up on the wildlife side and I don't think a lot of them have thought about that as they kind of have the cake and eat it too like a lot of people do. But then when you really quantify here's this value that you may or may not get because it's going to be based on a market two or three decades from now but what you know you're giving up the next two or three years. And nine times out of 10, it's like I would rather go with the reason I'm on this property on this club or bought this property is to enjoy right now and next year and the year after and I know I can do that versus the long-term risk of that market. So again it's always be opportunistic and capitalize on that opportunity you have with the timber but let's just put it in the right place and thinking about what you want in the short term and long term.

SPEAKER_06 27:25

It's been interesting to when you empower the landowner with that type of information that Bronson's talking about that hey if we do what a typical forester would recommend in maximum timber growth, this would be your long-term you know growth out and and potential income at today's market versus if we did a wildlife thin or a wildlife harvest, this is what you're giving up on long-term timber growth. But on the flip side this is what you're gaining on the recreational value and you give both those scenarios to the landowner it's been really interesting to watch which way he he's leaning and so to be able to give them that and quantify that in real money has been very empowering to the to the guys that we're working with and a lot of these wildlife spacings on on trees are you know they are those trees are way far apart. Yeah but uh you know you for example you try to get rid of that place and sell it uh if if somebody goes and sees a bunch of polts run across the road or starts hearing quail that's gonna be a bigger deal these days than having you know 80 basilaria pines everywhere no doubt and if you're if you're interested in increasing the value of your property Dudley you're right you need to be thinking about that I mean we're seeing landowner after landowner you know prospective buyers in the market that look at unthinned pines as a liability not an asset. Right. Um so it's times are changing.

SPEAKER_09 28:51

They are they are so adjacent to that if if a property's got wild pigs is is is that you see guys going like I don't want to have that because they've if you got a pig problem I may not be able to knock a dent in them and get how do they affect the the thought process there?

SPEAKER_04 29:10

Um I I really think that depends on the landscape around them. So anybody in the state of Mississippi can have a boar come through their property nowadays but I think it's gonna depend on what you know from your neighbors and are you having to capture hundreds of pigs every year. And some of these property they're they're trapping 500 plus pigs a year. So they they still have a good property and it's still productive and all that but you got to go in knowing you're gonna have to spend the time and money to do that.

SPEAKER_00 29:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:43

So it's not a deal breaker. You just again just be cognizant of that up front that that's going to be part of your management activity for 12 months out of the year is dealing with that.

SPEAKER_09 29:53

Yeah you know the local guy Rodney Johnson I I think he traps with these big pigs and I think he's one of these that's been four to five hundred pigs a year. Yeah but seemed like I recently heard that he's he's been able to kind of take a little bit of a break that he kind of got on top of them.

SPEAKER_03 30:08

Oh yeah I mean we're feeling that I think in this area this year which is interesting and I don't want to uh you know jinx us by any way shape or form because they'll show right back up.

SPEAKER_08 30:17

Yeah my my pictures have dwindled a lot this year.

SPEAKER_09 30:20

Yeah go ridney yeah well that whole thought process of of uh k catching the sounder with these traps right that evidently that works.

SPEAKER_03 30:31

For years we were trying to catch one at a time we were just completely wasting our time.

SPEAKER_06 30:35

We really were well and uh you know some of these uh management techniques like you know I know Marcus et al was working on that recently um and you know a lot of these burned areas the the pigs don't like that as much so there's things you can do to naturally keep them keep them away that's right well let's let's talk about fall planning so right right right now it's uh Mitt and you're with with your agronomic experience are you thinking I'm gonna go ahead and try to get something in the ground early in September and hope you get a rain and get a jump start on your food plot or you are you waiting till later in the year and I may be a little bit biased coming off the last two years when we had uh you know a really dry fall and we couldn't get the food plots up and and so most of the food plots really did whether you planted them early or not you really didn't have a food plot until on up into November the last last couple of years. And so coming behind two years of that you you get them out of the ground and then shortly thereafter you get into a cold snap the food plots aren't growing and really it gets into March before you have a productive food plot. Well that you can navigate around that a little bit assuming that we get the the rainfall but I am going to plant early this year. I'm gonna be looking for some opportunities the first of September I'm not saying I'm gonna plant all my food plots but I'm definitely going to have a percentage of my food plots that I'm gonna plant early September to try to get that early growth and take advantage of the growing season window that we'll have between now and cold weather getting here so I can get that early growth to try to get ahead of some of the the miles on the landscape. But I I definitely am going to do that. And there's some there's some chances that we're taking there uh you know with dry weather and army worms but just like we're talking about on the production side you know if you're if you're timely and attentive to those I mean we have we have management that we can navigate around that to and so we've got some strategy that that we can protect ourselves from those. And so um you know that's I by all means I think diversity is a key and I'm going to be starting planting here in the next couple of weeks.

SPEAKER_03 32:38

Can you share some of those strategies?

SPEAKER_06 32:39

I mean is it no till I mean yeah yeah so uh those are good points Lanny so one thing that I I started about a month ago especially the food plots that I'm planning on planting early I burned those down um a couple of months ago and so they've been pretty well stale seedbed uh since then you know no green growth in it and so all the moisture that I've been accumulating over the last couple of months I mean I've got a moisture bank in the soil with really nothing consuming it. So other than maybe the a little uh evaporation that I'm getting the first inch or so uh on the surface I've got great moisture. I mean I was I took a pocket knife and and flicked some uh some soil up yesterday and just great great moisture right there that I'll be able to take a no-till drill and drill right into that uh whether I get a rain or not and the seeds gonna bounce out of the ground. Um so those are some strategies as opposed to you know keeping them green till right now and then going there and bush hogging and discing 23 times like we all used to 23 times.

SPEAKER_03 33:35

Yeah that's right breaking down 22 times.

SPEAKER_06 33:37

That's right and then we're clotting we're waiting on a rain and that rain doesn't come in September. I mean you know all the we've all been there. Wasted so much time so much time and so those are some things that the opportunities that I'm looking for um to be able to do that. And not everybody's got a no-till drill but one thing too to keep it uh in your back pocket is most all these counties have NRCS drill and they're really good John Deere drills that they keep up and so everybody has access to that.

SPEAKER_03 34:07

That is exactly what I use it's the county drill and it's the best piece of equipment we got great what is it a dollar an acre is that five dollars an acre is is what we rented I promise you I own one you can't own one for five dollars it's a great service so check with your local guys one more question on your burn down when you're burning down that early are you just glyphosate or is there something else to make you because my experience of course if I get a rain after I you know I burn down and something green's going back in there. So is there a specific uh prescription?

SPEAKER_06 34:39

And that's something too that again being very attentive to what what you got going on. So if you can understand the weed spectrum because your land is going to be different than mine. So if you can understand that weed spectrum that could really enlighten you on what herbicide program is going to be best. Generally glyphosate will do that and you may depending on when you start burning down you may even want to burn down twice. Because if if we get that untimely rain with no pre-emerge down, I mean we're gonna get another flush of grass. And so it may be a couple applications. There's some pre-emerges depending on your individual you know weed spectrum that we make it help you know buy you another 20 or 30 days uh of of weed free but um you know just being attentive of what weed what's my weed spectrum and be very intentional about the herbicide program to match my weed spectrum.

SPEAKER_03 35:23

And and are you going right back in and drilling over that thatch are you burning it?

SPEAKER_06 35:26

No well it it depends. I I've done it both ways and so if you've got um if you've got some real tall um food plots that got away from you maybe early in the summer and you burn it down and it's waist high um I've used fire to to eliminate that. But if you start out early enough even those those taller weeds if you if we can kill them will melt down give you a good thatch and that just gives you more protection against that moisture conservation that we're looking for anyway. So I the thatch is a you know a good thing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 35:56

And you know you mentioned disking 23 times which all of us are guilty that was in jest but not really no it's the truth but you know you don't really have to do that. You know you mentioned burning it down. If you don't have the the no-till drill uh of course you can do some of the poor man's no-till methods but you can still use conventional tillage uh a lot of people that don't think they like to spray will disc it 50 times and ruin their soil uh when if they would just go in and spray it one time and have a burn down you don't have to disc it 23 times to get it ready.

SPEAKER_06 36:34

So that's a that's a really really important point that you just said Dudley because you again you don't have to have a no-till drill so the moisture conservation is true regardless regardless of your planting method and so if you have you know six weeks of burndown ahead of your planting period you go in there and disc it you won't believe the moisture that you're gonna be discing up right then apply your broadcast seed and maybe cultivated firm it back up to conserve that moisture your seed's gonna germinate just like mine does with no-till drill and that plow is going to go through that field a lot easier yeah because all those roots would have rotted you know a lot of people will spray and then they'll go in four days later when it's starting to turn yellow yeah and the roots haven't had time to decompose and so it comes up all clotty.

SPEAKER_08 37:21

That's right. And there you go again you got to disc that 23 times.

SPEAKER_06 37:24

So this way that way two passes on that burn down will look better than 23 passes without I exactly and you're not damaging your soil as much.

SPEAKER_03 37:32

And his food plotters were completely turning the soil at the wrong time of the year.

SPEAKER_09 37:36

So too right so is there a scenario in that field that you just described that you've for the last six weeks you've prepped and it's burned down and it's mostly bare can a guy just simply overseed, lay seed on the ground at a heavier rate and wait for that rain event and hope to have a an established field after that?

SPEAKER_06 37:56

For sure. And and we've done that method a lot of times and one taking a step further I mean pretty well everybody's got a bush hog um in those situations if we burn down and the stuff is and the material's still standing is go in there and broadcast your seed then bush hog over the top of it. So it's really about finding seed to soil contact. That's really what you're looking for. And so if you put thatch over the top of that seed and then get a rain on top of that that'll that thatch allows that moisture to stay there long enough for the seed to germinate. And so that's a very effective method and and we we use that routinely.

SPEAKER_09 38:33

Yeah well I I think we hear a lot of guys wanting to do something as simple as that. But I think the secret is what you just said about the six weeks of prep and the intentional that's very important aspects. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 38:44

Mill why don't you talk real quick about running the risk with army worms? And so like in the past we have talked about you someone could get army worms but there would be more years to where planting early you would get a positive benefit from that versus the one out of five or one out of ten where army worms could be a problem.

SPEAKER_06 39:05

That's right. Yeah and so um I there's some cultural ways that you may could help avoid army worms. Typically army worms are attracted to the grass species. And so if you have you know a clover a monoculture clover generally they they're not going to be as as you know much of a factor in that. Now they can start an adjacent grass and when they eat that grass they're gonna eat something they'll eat an oak tree if they're you know if they're hungry enough. But typically they're attracted to the grass. If you are you know putting some type of cereal grain with your clovers I mean you're gonna be vulnerable in in that situation. But we have chemistry that can help us do that. And so if you've already got a sprayer and you're you're accustomed to putting out a herbicide on your food plot I mean there's insecticides out there that have really long residual that you know we we often think about the pyrethroids that are contact killers and then we the next week we may have another flush of army worms. Well that's not the only tool we have in the toolbox I mean we have some some chemistry out there with some some really long residual that you can spray it on um you know your your upcoming you know wheat and clovers to give that protection for 20 or 30 days. And oftentimes that'll get you out of the the army worm window. So we do have tools in our toolbox that we can do that. It is a risk but again if you're paying attention and watching and don't just plant and walk away um you know generally you can you can navigate around those those issues. The risk is worth the reward to me in in that in that situation.

SPEAKER_09 44:10

Yeah yeah yeah so well while we're here at Army Worms we've we've learned Angus and I can't how you pronounce this last year what a great guy. He but just he just spent a lot of time with us about army worms and educated us so much. But we learned that they they they're marching north they're marching from the coast this this way.

SPEAKER_06 44:29

So just because you had army worms one year doesn't guarantee that you're gonna have them forever then does it it's just a matter of the wind really they come in on the wind currents and depending on all that time of year and and how the you know the weather patterns are will determine where those flights where those frogs navigate so you know we're hearing them we've been here last year we heard about them making it up into northern ohio is that that's pretty far north of the army worm.

SPEAKER_03 44:56

And and aren't there are there's there's more varieties than just one army worm aren't there? Absolutely bear that's for sure.

SPEAKER_09 45:06

Yeah so the plots that we've been able to plant early it with historically we've been at the biologic business for 25 years or so matter of fact by yeah those brassicas though when they're when they're planting that when you can get that magic rain the first part of September it just helps their growth so much. You see the juries with these great big beautiful lush plots and they they're planting in late August actually up there in Minnesota and they're taking that gamble. Yeah we'll leave I mean some of our customers up near the northern border are planting those things in mid-June right before the salt goes it's made me wonder if a guy couldn't like right now overseed a rate of brassicas try to catch that rain and then later overseed a rate of cereal grains a little bit later on in the in September try if if if a restaurant definitely's had success doing that yeah uh actually later no I've never goofed around with that but yeah I guess you could put brassicas out at a little bit lower rate you know maybe five pounds an acre and uh get them up in September or whenever you plant them and then come back a uh three weeks or a month later and overseed it maybe with some clovers and cereal grains.

SPEAKER_08 46:24

When you have more reliable soil moisture. That's an interesting thought. Folks are doing all kinds of stuff like that. That's not so fun about it.

SPEAKER_09 46:33

Yeah and I think that's the takeaway. I think we're learning that that we you know just because the way our dad may have taught us back however many years ago and the way they always did it at their hunting club there's new and improved more precise ways of doing things now and and and experimenting.

SPEAKER_06 46:48

And there's certainly not a one size fits all I mean for sure there's so many different soil types you know sight.

SPEAKER_08 46:53

I mean like I never went and tried to do that throw and move trick on top of my ridgetops where it was dry and eroded. You know I was always doing that on my better soils further down the hill.

SPEAKER_09 47:06

Yeah. You know Luke Racop sat right there Bronson a couple weeks ago and I think the thing that got him the most excited if I remember right was he was saying guys can go experiment with their property and learn what works best for them. That's gamekeeping a hundred percent it it is and I think if we can inspire people to to learn and I would say and Mitt I bet you would back this up take notes that what you did when you did it what kind of the conditions were so you can go back and study it.

SPEAKER_06 47:31

That is huge. You know we're talking about the the early planting system and we're doing so the flip side of that is you know to your point we need to be paying attention and really be a steward of of watching our place and the way that that the deer react to our food plots because the flip side of that early planting is you have some bigger plots with low deer density. You plant the first of September and then we have a a long spell of really good growing conditions before it gets cold and guess what my food plots are big and rank and now they're not palatable. And so I've seen that before yeah and so you really got to weigh in the number of mouths that I've got to feed against the number of acres to really fine-tune that planting date to try to hit that happy medium because you can't overcompensate the other direction too.

SPEAKER_03 48:15

So from a percentage perspective are you going to plant 50% of your plots early or is it a third and a third and a third?

SPEAKER_06 48:21

So in my particular situation uh I hadn't really done the math yet, Lanny but it's probably going to be closer to a third and I'm really thinking more about the places that I want to concentrate you know bow hunting so I can have some you know very intentional food plots and close proximity to to bow stands that I know have been productive in the past and that's that's where I'm gonna focus you know early on.

SPEAKER_09 48:42

I can see Mitt. I can see his wheels turning but I bet he's thinking well I'm gonna bow hunt here but then come about around Christmas when they're big deer chasing this is where I want to be because this is this is a good rut area going to have some different kind of groceries right now.

SPEAKER_06 48:58

No doubt about it. And not only that is you know the different soil types make them being very intentional about the varieties that I'm planting um you know when and where um so my rifle stands versus my bow stands um very and when I'm thinking about turkey centric places versus deer centric places there's some varieties that I'm absolutely going to avoid in some food plots that I that I know the turkeys want to be there in the spring. There's gonna be some varieties that I do not want to put really tall stuff really tall stuff.

SPEAKER_03 49:27

Yeah and and when you're talking about soil types I mean you're not just talking about a soil test what that says But actually the composition of the soil. Yeah by the name, is that how you're feeling on it?

SPEAKER_06 49:37

Well, not specifically. I'm when I'm thinking about soil types, I'm really thinking about surface and internal drainage. Okay. That's what's going to affect probably more so the variety that I'm going to put there than others, is that, you know, a good example would be Balanza. I mean, balanza, it's almost hydroponic. I mean, it is unbelievable the places that you can grow it, that it responds really, really well. As opposed to a crimson clover, it wants a dry, well-drained site. Alf will be another example of that. And so those two varieties, they are not going to grow good in the same spot, generally speaking. And so being intentional about you know picking those varieties for what went in there. Makes sense. I do too, Doug.

SPEAKER_09 50:22

Are y'all getting excited about uh like you getting pictures right now and seeing be recognizing your bucks, your velvet bucks?

SPEAKER_06 50:28

And have you got anything that you I'm embarrassed to say I don't have one camera out yet.

SPEAKER_07 50:32

I'm thinking I'm gonna fix that. Yeah, I don't have one camera out yet, but I'm fixing to fix that.

SPEAKER_09 50:38

You know, uh the this velvet season is really interesting. It's coming on up pretty soon, isn't it? Yeah, it is. I think it's in uh the 12th through the 14th, I think, if I'm not mistaken. So in a couple weeks. Yeah, it's not very far at all. Oh wow, but uh you know it's I mean, if you can get a good velvet, if you can key in on a a velvet buck right now, he's he's a lot easier to pattern.

SPEAKER_08 50:59

He's got that summer head on, that's right. But they are hard to find. That little season comes too quickly for me every year. Yeah, you know, I've always got something else going on. I'm planting food plots, that's right.

SPEAKER_04 51:10

It's so hot too. Yeah, but they're on food to your point, in terms of being reliable. They're on food right now, and this is before they're gonna the bachelor groups are gonna be breaking up. So it is a good, it's probably one of the most reliable times where if you have them on on camera, you probably have a good shot of seeing them while you're hunting.

SPEAKER_08 51:27

Yeah, and it's usually two or three of them all the time. Oh, yeah, they're usually a covey shot.

SPEAKER_09 51:30

Whoops, yeah, that's it's interesting how they run together this time of year, and they're but they're buddies running packs.

SPEAKER_03 51:36

They're buddies, well that's except for six weeks out of the year, pretty much.

SPEAKER_04 51:40

It's when the testosterone comes back in their system, yeah. They're no longer buddies. Yeah, then it goes out and they're buddies again.

SPEAKER_03 51:47

Yeah, that's when they get to the amazing animal. Yeah, that's right. That's right. That's right.

SPEAKER_09 51:52

That's right. Uh well, so uh Bronson, are you uh have you got some cameras out? Are you watching some stuff?

SPEAKER_04 51:58

Uh for clients, yeah. So that has begun. It will really begin probably uh second week of September, all the way until October 1st. Uh, but yes, uh we will be spending many, many weeks, 40 hours a week looking at looking at photos.

SPEAKER_09 52:17

Doing buck inventory. Are you are y'all seeing, you know, a lot of sometimes people say that that mature bucks are leery of cameras? Have y'all got an opinion on that? And do you think there's anything to that?

SPEAKER_04 52:29

Some are, some aren't. I hate to be that simple, but bucks are individuals. There's absolutely evidence where uh a buck will avoid a camera. And was it that style of camera? Did it make more noise? Nobody knows, but then there's some that will go 20 times a day if you get a photo of it.

SPEAKER_09 52:48

Yeah, and uh go ahead, Lane.

SPEAKER_03 52:50

Uh every buck I get a picture of is looking at the camera, then I never see him again. I don't know what the deal is.

SPEAKER_09 52:54

So admit, I've my thoughts on this, correct, correct me if I'm wrong. You're you're a deep thinker, I can tell over there. But so, like I'm five years into this little place. I'm thinking this he ought to know it's there by now. It's been there for five years. You know, I I don't think I'm bothering him. But if I go move a camera and put it somewhere, I'm trying to think in my mind, well, he's look probably gonna be a little suspicious.

SPEAKER_08 53:19

That you you had a buck and all you did was move a camera just like facing another direction, and oh my gosh, there he is all of a sudden. Yes. Hadn't gotten a picture of him all summer. Yeah. But what's what's your thoughts?

SPEAKER_06 53:32

I don't know. I have no data to support this, but I almost think through observation that it's cultural. I mean, no different than I've we've got properties that we work with that a mature buck will walk out into the food plot at 3.30 in the afternoon. And then we have other properties that the only time you're gonna see a mature buck is 3.30 in the morning on your camera as he walks by. And so I I think that the same type of of you know aversion that they have to things like that, they might have from from cameras also from a cultural standpoint. I I don't know, I don't know how to understand that or think about it, but I have made those those observations from sight to sight.

SPEAKER_03 54:15

It's gotta be pressure related.

SPEAKER_09 54:17

I mean, you know food water cover pressure. But theoretically, though, Bronson, if he grew up seeing a camera on that tree right there, he he's gonna get accustomed to that.

SPEAKER_04 54:25

That's not gonna bother him. Uh until there's some negative reinforcement. So all what you're talking about are conditioned responses. And so if something negative happens and he associates that negative aspect to that camera, yeah, he could. But most of the time there's nothing negative that that's going on with that. So I don't think so.

SPEAKER_09 54:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 54:47

Now it could be once they detect hunting season has begun, and now there's humans sent on the landscape, and now you start moving the camera around, going to places where they normally wouldn't associate you being, I could see that being a problem. Yeah, that makes sense. But this time of year, I wouldn't think so.

SPEAKER_06 55:04

An example of that would be having a camera on a corn pile, and every time they come to the corn pile, they get shot at. I mean, that would be that negative response. Yeah, you associate that with that camera. Let me see. Or the corn pile. Or the corn pile.

SPEAKER_09 55:15

Man, I told you Mitt was smart. You figure that out. But can y'all imagine like 15 years ago when cameras flashed? I bet that freaked some bucks out. Oh, no doubt about it. That would happen.

SPEAKER_08 55:26

Well, I mean, a lightning, it I mean, sometimes when you're 20 feet away from a camera, there's it's really not much of a difference. It's a you know, a distant lightning strike and a camera flash.

SPEAKER_03 55:37

I'm with Bronson, though. They're also individualistic. I mean, you know, some of them are just slicker than other ones, and those are usually the ones that end up being bigger.

SPEAKER_08 55:45

Imagine I mean, some of them are like Bobby and some of them are like Lanny. Two totally different people.

SPEAKER_04 55:51

Yeah, we are. But even back in that day, so I'm old enough, you know, those trail camera surveys back in the day with 36 exposures, oh yeah, changing the film out, and those are all baited surveys. And so there might be a few deer, you would only get one picture of it, and it's looking like you're describing. But by the end of the 10-day survey, it's on the camera repeatedly.

SPEAKER_03 56:12

Back in there again.

SPEAKER_04 56:14

Again, it it came, it it saw the flash or heard the camera, and nothing negative happened. It came back the next day, and finally it just grew into that situation.

SPEAKER_09 56:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 56:24

Wow.

SPEAKER_09 56:26

So when guys are calling y'all, are are you hearing it is it is it big, you know, 170-inch bucks that people are wanting to grow? Or or is there or are people happy with a healthy deer herd? Where where do most people want to land there? Because I my mind kind of goes to the 170s, of course. But I don't know that everybody's like that. But what are most people thinking?

SPEAKER_04 56:51

Um, I I've been really pleased that most people have very reasonable expectations, meaning um we only want 180s and 170s. Me too. Most people are uh 130s, 140s at maturity, and and occasionally us being able to see and harvest 150s sustainably, that's more what they want. And you know, they recognize you can do everything right, and growing a 170 or a 180, that that's an anomaly. You know, that that just doesn't happen very often. But what you can do through management is consistently producing 140s and 150s, and and most of them want that. I mean, I love 140s.

SPEAKER_03 57:38

I don't know what y'all are talking about.

SPEAKER_09 57:40

You know, that's a good point, though. And it and it kind of goes back to expectations. And it and look, we we got listeners all over, and in some parts of the the state, it's unrealistic to even think about a 170. But there's uh somebody else might be Jeff Foxworthy, he's got a farm over in South Georgia, and they grow 150s, 160s, and occasional you know, non-typical that'll scoot up there in the 190s. That they they can do it, they have a little bit different expectations. There's a little bit different expectations. And then we had Brian, remember Brian Harmon? Yeah, you know, he he admitted, look, about 125 is about what we're gonna, he's on the coast of Georgia over there, and and he recognized that right off the bat.

SPEAKER_03 58:23

I mean, if you're in Mississippi, 130 or 40-inch buck is a great buck. I mean, any which way around, I'll consider that a mature watch. Bronson, you can validate that. And most of them are really 125. Yeah. I mean, a hundred and one forty-eight point is a freaking stud. It is a stud. I mean about I mean, I I think so.

SPEAKER_04 58:41

But even within Mississippi, it it depends on where you're at. So if you're down on the coast, I mean, the average mature buck may only be less than you know, 115, yeah. But if you get over into the Delta region, the average can be 135 to 140. And so it all depends on decades of having a landscape that is producing a lot of food. It it is all nutrition based. When you get within the south, now comparing the south to the Midwest, that's different. We don't do that, but within this area, it's all food-based.

SPEAKER_09 59:14

Ross, why do you you know I've seen some stats in the last few years where Mississippi leads in age and yes, mature mature bucks. Uh what's going on?

SPEAKER_03 59:25

What's or the average age of buck harvest is going up, I think.

SPEAKER_04 59:29

Yeah, I I want to say it's the ratio of three and a half plus uh in the harvest. What was the metric?

SPEAKER_03 59:36

That makes more sense.

SPEAKER_04 59:37

Uh I I I attribute that to education and MDW FMP. They do a hell of a job. They do a wonderful problem with educating people with with the DMAP program, and they have just had a concerted effort working with MSU for the past 20 years talking about this, and and I think it's paying off in that regard. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 59:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 59:57

Well, that that age structure is all it's not, you know, it has nothing to do there with habitat management or doing your food plots right. That is all about restraint. And so people being educated to give it one or two more years, and I think that's education.

SPEAKER_08 1:00:10

I remember sometime in the 90s, it was like overnight. You went from just seeing a bunch of one and a half year olds to seeing a lot of three-year-olds. Uh, it it happened quick.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:22

Well, that that would have been the mid-90s with the four-point rule, right? Good or bad. Right. And so we showed some negative aspects of that relative to antler development and later in in life, but it was very effective at protecting the yearling age class and getting a greater proportion to two or three. Yeah, we were kind of I think that's when it started.

SPEAKER_09 1:00:42

Yeah. We were kind of high grading the deer herd there for a number of years. Absolutely were. So, Mitt, has your son uh he's killed some turkeys? What about deer?

SPEAKER_06 1:00:50

Yeah, he uh he he has killed a few deer. Um, he told me this past season in the in the deer stand, we went to one spot that we uh we we weren't gonna shoot any does. He he loves to shoot a doe now. I like this guy. And uh we went to a spot that was hard to get to. It just it wasn't convenient to to shoot does. I said, Look, we're we're buck hunting tonight. Dad wanted a relief from that skinny. That's right. But but I and so I looked over at him one day. We're watching some turkeys in the food plot, and the deer were starting to come out, and he was looking down at his boots, and I said, What's wrong, dude?

SPEAKER_05 1:01:25

We got deer in the field. He said, I hate buck hunting.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:31

Man, after my own heart over here. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:01:35

So that's what I'm dealing with right now. So yeah, he loves it.

SPEAKER_09 1:01:38

Uh the switch will flip.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:39

Right. Yeah, it will.

SPEAKER_09 1:01:40

Well, he sounds like he's gonna be able to help you manage that place.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:42

There's no doubt about it. Yeah, that's my favorite part of the easy trigger, man, for sure. That's fun stuff.

SPEAKER_09 1:01:47

Well, it's interesting, you know, uh that when when he got when he got started, when all of us got started, though, we I love to hear how people introduce their kid kids, and and sometimes when you put these parameters on about what they can't do, and it that takes some of the fun out of it. No, you want them to have fun. That's what I want to do more than that.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:08

And look, we went through this, talk about the 90s. It it was just everybody was defining success as a 170-inch white tail, and that's unattainable for most people, you know. So we gotta encourage people to enjoy what they got and to and to wisely manage a resource and get out there and use it. So there's my soapbox, if you got anything about it. But we work, we're eating our own young. And I think that's changed dramatically over the last few years. Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 1:02:32

People have I think that the whole attitude around. Everybody loves big deer. You know, and we're seeing guys now that are just are are way more into eat cooking their venison than they used to be.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:44

The biggest recruitment tool we got is is is the stomach, no doubt.

SPEAKER_09 1:02:47

I mean, Natasha, y'all we had a young lady that that works for for y'all, but Natasha hearing her story about um, it really is. Vegetarian and smelling the the meat cooking over the venison cooking over at the Leftfield Lounge. That's a great story.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:02

And and hearing the story about, you know, so if you come from a different background, it's all about uh industry, you know, meat production. Yeah, and a lot of people find that unpalatable, pun intended. Um but her hearing those stories about people hunting and and then the quality of the meat and then being able to consume it right there, it really took something like that to change her mind.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:26

I love hearing those stories.

SPEAKER_09 1:03:28

Well, in my mind, the hunters being more um uh up that about the meat and eating and that experience. That that is so important to painting the uh really positive spin on hunting. But to take it a little bit further, when a guy is managing his property, when he is doing all these things that you guys are doing, managing the timber for wildlife. And and there's so many more animals benefit from that than just the consumptive species. And it's gotta help songbirds, it's it's gotta help everything. And it so it goes right back to hunters or taking care of nature and where they can.

SPEAKER_08 1:04:06

Well, you mentioned the the sulfur butterflies earlier on. Uh, for example, uh I've been just going crazy trying to get a bunch of early successional habitat going at my new place, but I have to drive through some ag and some some cow pastures to get there. And uh I don't see any of that, you know, driving on the way. But as soon as I pull into my gate and I see all those wildflowers and things everywhere, I mean you can look and see like 40 butterflies flying around in your view. Uh that's that's success. That's right, that's right.

SPEAKER_09 1:04:41

All right, Lanny, you got any more questions for them?

SPEAKER_03 1:04:44

Uh yeah. I how did y'all meet?

SPEAKER_07 1:04:47

Bronson and I?

SPEAKER_03 1:04:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:49

So um you probably you probably don't remember this, but when I was early on on my trajectory of, you know, everybody has that um uh succession of or or evolution becoming, you know, I like to kill quantity. And then I move into quality. So you know that the I know, yeah. So early on in that evolution, when I started getting into land management and started getting interested in in big deer and and learning the fact that, hey, I may have a little bit of influence on being able to grow a big deer. I keyed in on Bronson. And so I would go to his office and ask a bunch of dumb questions and and really starting to hone you know my thoughts and and what Bronson was very, very humble and gracious to let me come in there and ask all those dumb questions. That's the way we met. He probably doesn't remember that, but I don't know the as we started, you know, working our our our paths started crossing a little bit more from uh mine and agriculture and his and and wildlife biology um and and whitetail management, uh we started, you know, being in similar places and and and you know working in similar crowds. And so that that uh you know friendship started to develop at that time and and we just had different talents and and look, what would it be like if we put all this together?

SPEAKER_03 1:06:16

Yeah, yeah, such yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:17

So it's he helped me a lot on the agronomics stuff. So that that was really educational for me, taking an understanding of that to the next level.

SPEAKER_08 1:06:26

Well, yeah, all y'all studies, food plot studies and things. I I bet you called him a lot. I've I've called him a few times, yeah. I was just thinking when Mitt was saying that about you, like, I wonder how many emails you have gotten in your career with you know, dear questions from from the lay people, yeah, including me.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:48

I wish I had that number. It would be overwhelming because it was overwhelming. But it's good stuff. I mean it is. I I like that that people are genuinely interested in looking for answers. I I love that.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:00

And in your history, you worked on a ranch in Texas, isn't that right? You did a bunch of studies there. Can you yeah, for my master's degree, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:06

I worked in South Texas for about three years.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:09

And uh one of the best studies you always stuck in my mind, and you talked about this on one of our earlier podcasts, was the the there was a a deer that y'all knew from birth, and I could get this wrong, you know, uh, that um didn't really was it a spike or he was not a uh considered a trophy deer that all of a sudden in year seven or eight just turned into a monster.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:34

We gotta make sure we qualify this. It's an anomaly. Yeah, it's very, very, very rare for this to happen. He was normal. He was normal, and and it the it didn't occur at five or six, it occurred at ten. Wow. Is when that happened. But that you you may have uh 10,000 deer before you find that one. That one situation. But it does happen. Interesting. So Bronze. So that was one example of of something blowing up, as you hear people say to a great extent. And and the the increase was about 60 inches in Boone Crockett's score in one year. In one year. Yeah. Well, some of that, don't you, Bobby?

SPEAKER_09 1:08:18

Yeah. I wish you could put your finger on what happened that yeah that year.

SPEAKER_08 1:08:22

Yeah, I've got a question that I bet you've answered 10 million times on emails. Um, and I I bet it would be a north and south thing. What age of a buck on average is when they have the most inches on top of their head? Well, it's four, five, six, seven, or eight.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:42

Yes, it's very difficult to find a difference between five and seven. Five and seven. But but there's also, if they're in good condition until even nine years of age, very little difference from five to nine. And when they start going downhill, it's it's less about they've gotten so old, and it's just more about resources at that point. Just the accumulation of disease or social hierarchy and not having access to the same food, whatever. But you literally have about a five-year span where there's hardly a discernible difference in anthersized.

SPEAKER_09 1:09:22

I've got a I've got a young 10 that I've been watching over here in Mississippi, and I wouldn't let my daughter shoot him this year. You know, just rude. And I've just been holding my breath to see him again. And that's where Dudley uh the story. I moved a camera just a little bit, and there he was. I hadn't seen him all summer. Boom, there he was. You saw him this year? Yeah. He looked, he he hadn't changed a bit. I mean, it looked like I could be looking at last year's pictures, and I'm just like, ugh. I've spent some months, nine months now, anticipating getting to see him. So do you think he was going from three to four, four to five? I I think he was going from three to four. Yeah. But I mean, nothing. There he it could be the same picture.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:05

You should have let Jessie. Jessie's gonna be mine when she hears the.

SPEAKER_09 1:10:08

Well, I'm gonna tell her we gotta wait about six or two.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:10

Three more years.

SPEAKER_09 1:10:11

He could happen at ten. That's just it I I love him so much, but I love that. I'm when I think back, I just had so much fun mentally. I can't wait to see what he's gonna look like. Oh, the anticipation of it. Absolutely. And in July, I said, well, I ought to be able to recognize him, and I wouldn't find him in anywhere. And I said, Well, let me move a camera time or two, and the next day I got him.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:31

I I know that that really stinks. That that's not not average. So typically they're gonna jump 15, sometimes 20%, but that's the average. And some of them, some of them may go up 40%, some of them may drop 10%. And unfortunately, you got the one that just kind of stayed stayed the same. But that does not mean from four to five the next year it may happen at that point. Good point.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:57

There's still a chance. I guess she can't shoot it again. You keep getting older and they're staying the same age. That's right. There it is.

SPEAKER_09 1:11:04

Oh my goodness. Dudley, you got any rapid fires for them? I got one for Lanny.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:09

Okay. Is there greater buck movement during a new moon, a full moon, or any of the crescents, any of the waxing?

SPEAKER_03 1:11:21

I think that the moon phase affects hunter movement more than deer movement.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:26

Ding ding ding. You know, he is teaching.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:32

We have Mariah on, you know.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:34

That may be one of the best successes right there.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:38

Completely interesting. I've spent more time talking about that and listening to you about that. And it's just fascinating to me. It really is. And I hope, you know, that that y'all's uh y'all's trials and well, I cut you know, I've called it mythbusters before. I love to see that kind of information coming out.

SPEAKER_09 1:11:52

So it it because there's so many just old wives' tales.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:56

Yeah, there are. Uh, and and lore and everything else. So it's uh it's good stuff for sure.

SPEAKER_08 1:12:02

All right, we'll try this. I don't really have a good finale one, but uh all right, so I'm gonna say uh Mitt, you answer first and then Bronson. Oh, come on. But y'all but y'all do it at the we're gonna do this at the same time. I'm not gonna ask the question. Hey, did y'all know that uh Dudley got a shot of Robin Hood the other day?

SPEAKER_06 1:12:21

Actually, that's I think that's like the 11th time I've heard that.

SPEAKER_08 1:12:24

Well, I shot a Robin Hood the other day. Good for you ladies, Doug. All right, are you ready? Did you get bloodied for your first deer? Yes, yes. Pick three favorite sides for a meat and three.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:44

Turnip greens, corn, and um black-eyed peas.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:49

Come on, oak rub black-eyed peas potato.

SPEAKER_08 1:12:52

No mac and cheese. Okay. Do you prefer green beans from the can or fresh?

SPEAKER_06 1:13:00

Oh fresh from my grandmama's pot.

SPEAKER_08 1:13:03

Yeah, oh fresh. Well, those salty canned green beans are not bad sometimes. All right. What is your favorite saltwater fish to eat? My my speckled trout. What is your favorite saltwater shellfish? Scallop. Lobster. Do you usually clean deer with a folding knife or a non-folding knife? A non-folding knife. Non-folding. What is your least favorite non-native invasive plant?

SPEAKER_06 1:13:37

My least favorite Cogengrass.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:41

Cerissa would be would be one.

SPEAKER_08 1:13:44

Man, there's a bunch. Um, what is a non-native plant that you're okay kind of okay with? Forage wheat.

SPEAKER_07 1:13:53

I'd say the same thing.

SPEAKER_08 1:13:54

Y'all are cheating on the food plot stuff. You know what I mean? Name two of your favorite native fours.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:06

Beggar's lice and partridge pea. Desmodium pokeweed.

SPEAKER_08 1:14:12

All right. And last but not least, when you were younger, could you do a long wheelie on a three-wheeler?

SPEAKER_06 1:14:19

I could.

SPEAKER_08 1:14:20

I could not. Great. That was good. I was thinking it was gonna be the other way around. 110.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:28

110, baby. Was that in high or low?

SPEAKER_06 1:14:31

That was in high. Yeah, buddy.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:33

Don't you have a 110? Who's got the 110?

SPEAKER_08 1:14:35

Uh the old 110 got stolen, but I I do have my stepdad's 185. There we go. It's probably got less than 50 hours on it.

SPEAKER_09 1:14:45

Nice. That's the cream puff. That is. I bet Mitt had was rough on some equipment that when he was growing up.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:50

Yeah, my dad was pretty stingy on buying us, so I had to I had to rough everybody else's equipment up in the neighborhood.

SPEAKER_09 1:14:57

Yeah. All right. Look, we've got a trivia question. Mitt uh, Mitt Joel over there. Would you please let's let's turn this over to Mitchell. We've got our we've got we got a review today? Well, I think so.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:10

Yeah. We have a comment.

SPEAKER_09 1:15:12

What did the comment win? They win a companion's t-shirt. Well, we're one episode away from doing the Ryan Kirby posters. And what about the Sunday golf bag? Well, we have we're gonna do that next week.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_08 1:15:24

Um, I would like to throw in a bottle of Mississippi Red Hot Sauce. There you go. There you go. There you go. Very favorite by far hot sauce.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:34

My kids' favorite hot sauce, too. It is good. It is good stuff.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:37

All right. So we got Wood Duck 1414. It's so nice to be able to turn on the podcast with my sons and never have to worry about what they'll hear. Thanks for the great podcast.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:49

Wow. That's true.

SPEAKER_09 1:15:56

Is that a it yet? No, it hasn't. So um the trivia question is brought to us by our friends at the peanut patch. Yeah, Mitch, I bet you've had your hands growing peanuts at some part, but boiled peanuts are our favorite. We love them.

SPEAKER_08 1:16:12

You know, there's nothing more American than dove hunting and eating boiled peanuts. So uh if anything, go get you some boiled peanuts this weekend for Labor Day weekend. There you go. Dove shoot for sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:23

All right. Trivia question is in the late 1800s, Clement Rag started naming hurricanes and cyclones after whom he would say that they caused great distress or wandered aimlessly. It's multiple choice. A family members, B politicians, C, friends, or D. Historical figures.

SPEAKER_06 1:16:50

If it wasn't multiple choice, I would have said XY. I'm going with uh I'm going with family members. I'm going with friends.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:02

No.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:03

Politicians.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:04

There you go.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:05

Really?

SPEAKER_00 1:17:07

So he would at the time he actually started with uh Roman gods and goddesses, and by the third one, he swapped over to political figures and politicians in Australia because he just didn't like all of them. So he would start in the newspaper, and when he would talk about, oh, this is the hurricane or the cyclone coming, he would talk badly about his politicians and name the hurricanes and the cyclones so he wouldn't really get in trouble. It only lasted a little bit until they realized it, and then he got in a lot of trouble. Good for him.

SPEAKER_09 1:17:38

But that's how naming storms got it.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:41

He started with naming storms and then got picked up by the military in World War II again.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:46

And they start every year with A, right? And then they go through output.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:49

But now it's now it's just female names.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:52

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. That's why I was with you on the wives. I was like, I was I was really expecting D to be the wives.

SPEAKER_08 1:17:58

Yeah, I was gonna say none of the above. But we all learned that.

SPEAKER_09 1:18:02

That was a tough one, Mitchell. Yeah, and was this the week we were giving away $2,500? It was. I'm so sure. We filed him up, bro.

SPEAKER_08 1:18:12

Oh, sorry. Um we all won silencers at the uh Wild Turkey, the University of Florida Wild Turkey event the other day.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:20

From Silencer Central? Not we all, yeah. Some of y'all table.

SPEAKER_08 1:18:24

Well, you know, you just have to sit at the right table to win, I guess. And get Bobby to fill out your paperwork. It was so awesome to be able to actually win something. I love it. Yeah, it was. Congratulations, Dudley.

SPEAKER_09 1:18:36

Thank you. Well, look, what what's is there something that we need to talk about or question we need to ask that we're not thinking about?

SPEAKER_03 1:18:44

So, what's the um best way to get in touch there? Go to the website or reach out, you can get Bronson's cell phone number out or anything like that.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:51

Yeah, we've we've got a really good uh website that's got all our contact information on wildlifeinvestments.com. So go check go check that out. We've got all on all the social media accounts too.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:02

So let's go ahead and announce this for accountability. We are also starting a podcast.

SPEAKER_07 1:19:08

Hey, now we got now we gotta follow how to do it.

SPEAKER_08 1:19:12

Yeah, just put it put it in a different category than we're in. No, come on board with us.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:18

Join the families. That's really serious.

SPEAKER_08 1:19:20

And uh, I'm enjoying uh our new co-host on the Mississippi Deer Lab podcast.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:26

Oh, yes, absolutely. They're wonderful. So they they started very well, some good topics, and we'll we'll be uh interacting with them and them with us on the wildlife investment side. Sweet. Yeah, that sounds great.

SPEAKER_09 1:19:38

Yeah, no, I'm excited for you. Well, look, so the fall issue of the magazine's coming out. What Mariah wrote an article uh in that Mariah's working with you guys, so wildlife investments is kind of making moves, baby permeating all the way through all the gamekeeper media for sure. That's right. We're proud, we're proud to have y'all around. Yeah, we are. Yeah, yeah. Thanks so much.

SPEAKER_08 1:19:59

I'm forever indebted to Mariah for making me a fan of red oaks. I will always owe him for that.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:06

He loves a red oak. Thank you, we're done about it. Yeah, we need him to love all oaks.

SPEAKER_09 1:20:11

Well, we're real proud of y'all. Yeah, we are y'all local guys, and you're you're doing you're doing well.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:16

Your brothers from Mississippi. That's right.

SPEAKER_09 1:20:18

Got a lot, we got a lot of, we thank a lot of uh Bronson for sure. And Mitt, we've enjoyed getting to know you. Thank you. Looking forward to going turkey hunting with you. I'm sure I'm sure my phone will share. I can't wait. We need to have a little deer contest. Who kills the biggest puck? Wait, wait, can we get the phone?

SPEAKER_03 1:20:36

You never you know use my category. What is your category? I'm like the manager of the year. Yeah, it's hard to hard to keep up with.

SPEAKER_09 1:20:45

He's got young.

SPEAKER_08 1:20:46

He can also win the most meat taken off of a deer contest. Yeah, and he can put them up now.

SPEAKER_09 1:20:52

Pick them clean. Yeah, buzzer will starve to death on one of the good stuff. All right. Well, so uh I think that's it, guys. We really appreciate everybody looking at it. Thank y'all. Yeah, that's good stuff. Yeah, thank you all. Why don't you say goodbye, Dudley? Goodbye, Dudley. Get us out of here, Mitchell.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:09

Thanks for tuning in to this week's episode of the Game Keeper Podcast. And be sure to tune in again. Subscribe to Game Keeper Farming for Wildlife magazine, and don't miss the Mossy Oak Properties Fistful of Dirt podcast with my good buddy, Ronnie Cut Strip.