EP:429 | Elk, Helicopters, and Jealousy

On this episode we are joined by Andrew McKean, the Hunting & Conservation Editor for Outdoor Life. Andrew has the craziest elk hunting story we can recall hearing. The West has thousands of acres of landlocked public hunting opportunities that are more-or-less inaccessible. There has been much debate about corner crossings in the last few years. After drawing tags and studying maps, Andrew and his buddies thought they’d found the perfect answer when they decided to have a helicopter drop them into a remote area so as not to cause any trespass issues with the adjoining landowners. All their reconnaissance paid off and all three killed giant bulls… but what happened next surprised everyone. It’s a great story and one you’ll want to hear and share 

Listen, Learn and Enjoy. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

I am Jeff Foxworthy and welcome to Gamekeeper Podcast. If you want to learn more about farming for wildlife and habitat management, then buddy, you are in the right place. Join the Gamekeeper crew direct from Baltio Plan Enhancement Studio as they discuss the latest wildlife and habitat management practices, news, and of course honey. There's no telling what you'll learn, but I'm gonna tell you I bet it's interesting. Enjoy.

SPEAKER_00 0:26

We're live in three, two, one.

SPEAKER_05 0:29

All right, guys. Welcome, West Point, Mississippi. Dudley, Lanny, Bobby. We're gonna be Bobby. We got an interesting story to hear. It is great.

SPEAKER_04 0:37

Yeah, yeah. It's one of the few things that can draw my attention off of turkey hunting right now.

SPEAKER_05 0:42

I I agree. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 0:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 0:44

So we are in the Alabama finally opened up. Praise the Lord.

SPEAKER_04 0:47

Yeah, congratulations there, my master guy. Well, yeah, thank you. That was uh it's always good to get that one eat. You know, you never, you know, you you we we talked about this a little bit yesterday. You learn so many things every time you go turkey hunting, and and I think you developed a new skill set yesterday.

SPEAKER_05 1:04

Oh, that uh but what would you say that skill set is? The the off-roading. Yeah, I did. Thank goodness it's dry. Yeah, yeah. Uh yeah, having a dry road system enabled me to move quicker than I probably would have been able to move in the past.

SPEAKER_06 1:21

Good thing you're in shape and you go to the gym every day. Otherwise, you probably wouldn't have been able to pull it off. He was in the truck. Yeah, we're talking about driving off the truck.

SPEAKER_03 1:29

Oh, oh I thought you got around him like he did with the truck.

SPEAKER_04 1:34

Yeah. Well, you have to hurry to the truck. That's a pro move. That's right. Like, why walk when we can just drive all the way around.

SPEAKER_05 1:41

So, guys, we've let me go ahead and get him introduced. We've got a man, I'm looking at the he's got a bighorn sheep behind him, some milk. Big old. We've got Andrew McKean from Outdoor Life. Hello, Andrew.

SPEAKER_04 1:55

Hey gents, how you doing? Doing great. Thanks for being here. Outdoor life. I mean, how big more of a big iconic meaty I know I know you were like me, used to just couldn't wait to get out to the mailbox to get your outdoor life. Yeah, read it at night with the flashlight. It was just that was my entertainment. Outdoor life. What a good magazine. It is. And uh uh the Cabela's catalog. I always look good.

SPEAKER_05 2:18

And you'd have to throw Field and Stream in there as well.

SPEAKER_04 2:20

But you kind of got your inspiration from the outdoor life field and stream, and then you tried to gear yourself out looking through the through the catalog. Yeah, that's good stuff. Really good stuff.

SPEAKER_05 2:28

So Andrew is the hunting and conservation editor, unless something's changed since the last time. Uh you got it. Andrew, what a great job.

SPEAKER_01 2:38

Oh, yeah. It's uh like you guys, I was also that kid under the covers reading outdoor life, and I was like, wait, you can actually I could string words together for this magazine. I mean, it took a while to get there, but I got there. That's awesome. You've been there a long time. I have. I think I've had every job on the masthead when we had a masthead. Yeah. I don't know if this is the time to drop this bomb on you. Sure, go for it. It's no longer published.

SPEAKER_04 3:04

Yes, I heard that as of last week. Uh you know, that broke my heart. Yeah. And we I think we're the only magazine that is still published down here. Uh-huh. Game keepers. What are we thinking?

SPEAKER_05 3:17

You're either ahead of your time or way behind. I'd say behind. Yeah. We still just I can't. I mean, I just like holding the uh old school magazine, Andrew.

SPEAKER_04 3:26

Well, I just put it there. We're lucky we have everything else going on so we can afford to print a magazine, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_05 3:31

That's probably our savings rate. And nobody has drilled into the analytics of our magazine yet. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:38

What are y'all doing? Keep them well away. You want you don't want accountants anywhere near magazines. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 3:45

But we do have so many people that like call in and are thankful, you know, and they still look forward to it. You know, people call. Yeah. I thought this thing was supposed to be in four days ago. Yeah. That tells you that we're always late.

SPEAKER_05 3:57

Yeah. Yeah. So I, you know, back in the day when you guys had millions of subscribers, I can't imagine how they would respond when y'all were a little late with a magazine. Because if we're a week late, we get all kinds of nasty phone calls and emails and yeah, and we just got a you know, a few.

SPEAKER_04 4:15

They were probably a little more of a well old machine than I imagine we are. Yeah, that those calls probably didn't reach their way to you today.

SPEAKER_01 4:24

They well, I was the editor-in-chief for a while, and I have to tell you, like, we were big enough that we were slotted into a pretty rigorous uh print schedule, and we couldn't be late. If we were late, I mean, it was millions of dollars. Yeah. Be just because of press time and all that business. And so our deadlines were serious things. And I I mean, I grew up in newspapers, and deadlines were always important, but never as important when you had that kind of like overhead waiting on every word and picture. So, yeah, it it was the real deal. And we weren't late that often, but when we were, we just called it a double issue. That's a good we should think about that.

SPEAKER_05 4:59

Well, so here's what happened, Andrew. So the winter issue, we're trying to duck hunt and deer hunt, and we get a little behind. I mean, how are we supposed to remain authentic? Spring issue. We're burning like crazy out there in February, and we get a little bit behind. Summer issue, we're fishing.

SPEAKER_04 5:15

Yeah. And you forgot turkey season in the middle of all.

SPEAKER_05 5:18

Well, and that kind of affects summer for sure.

SPEAKER_06 5:20

Yeah, if you're gonna write about this stuff, you've got to be able to do it, right? Keep practice.

SPEAKER_05 5:24

We sometimes we get the fall issue on time. Sometimes. Sometimes. But we're usually, it's no more than a weekend.

SPEAKER_01 5:34

Anyway. This sounds like uh maybe kind of a therapy session. I think, you know, if I was gonna advise you at all, now don't you can take it or leave it, maybe work a year ahead.

SPEAKER_04 5:46

Oh, he's getting ahead of things.

SPEAKER_06 5:48

I've never I've never thought about that. Productivity. I don't know. I'm kind of we're kind of lacking. We're trying to just get through today for the moment, guys.

SPEAKER_01 5:58

Here I know that was what am I saying? Know your audience.

SPEAKER_05 6:03

Andrew, before we get deeper into this, what that bighorn sheep behind you. He is lusting over. I'd love to hear the story behind that. You seem like a mighty young person to have a bighorn sheep.

SPEAKER_01 6:15

Yeah, I don't know. I uh I mean maybe it's coming from outdoor life and the whole Jack O'Connor legacy of you know, sheep hunters and grand slams just are kind of in the ether. I was sure I was gonna be a grand slammer and I was gonna, you know, live my life on in big, wild, high sheep meadows. And then reality crushed in, and I was like, wait, it costs$75,000 to go on one of those things, you know, and like at the same time, I was trying to get married and have kids and all that stuff. So anyway, I actually drew that. That's a Wyoming bighorn sheep right outside Yellowstone Park, unit two. And I drew, I was figuring, all right, I'm just gonna get on the escalator of preference points. And by the time I draw it, I hope to have one of my hips and maybe both knees, but my eyesight's probably gonna be gone. And I drew it as uh, I don't know, I had like 10 or 12 years of drawing it, and that big old fat envelope came in the mail, and uh I could not believe it.

SPEAKER_04 7:10

So did they call or anything, or did you just go to the mailbox and there it was? There it was. Wow, yeah, that was a good day to go to the mailbox. You were the only person that to get that.

SPEAKER_01 7:19

Was there only one? Yeah, there was only one. I think the way I there might have been something like as I was non-resident, I live in Montana, this was Wyoming. Um, I think there was one non, maybe two non-resident permits. One was given to the preference point pool, and then they put one up for the random draw.

SPEAKER_04 7:37

Nailed it. You were that guy. Nailed it, yeah. Oh, we we have we got a winner today, we're gonna be announcing.

SPEAKER_05 7:43

Yeah, toward the end, we're gonna spend that.

SPEAKER_04 7:45

We got some winners this week, too.

SPEAKER_05 7:46

So, was the hunt everything you dreamed it would be?

SPEAKER_01 7:50

Oh, it was unbelievable. Actually, uh, just an aside, I went with this guy named Lee Livingston. He had so as a non-resident Wyoming, if you want to hunt a wilderness area and basically sheep are wilderness creatures, you got to hire a guide. So, through friends of friends, I hooked up with this guy named Lee Livingston. He said, you know, if you're up for it, we're gonna horseback into Buffalo Bill Cody's last hunting camp. I said, heck yeah, that's that totally turns mic right.

SPEAKER_04 8:17

That's kind of a story ready to be written.

SPEAKER_01 8:20

Well, those big fires that just you know swept through Yellowstone Park in 1988 had burned the Jesus out of this part of the country. I mean, it was just hollowed out. And Buffalo Bill's camp had there had been a big old uh, I think it was a fir tree or spruce tree. Uh they call it Camp Monaco because Buffalo Bill Cody, you know, this kind of showman of the West, iconic hunter, was down on his luck, like most of us have been, will be, are, who knows? You know, he hunts all the time. He can't be expected to keep a checkbook. Right. Right. So he was kind of getting old and he invited the Prince of Monaco, you know, this principality in Europe to come hunt with him. And the Prince of Monaco brought like a, I don't know, an ensemble of 30 people. They're all like aristocrats, European aristocrats. They all camp under this tree. And sometime, I'm sure there was libations involved. They they they blazed half the tree away and they they put a big carving into it, Camp Monaco. And that thing stood in that clearing for 80 years or something. This was in like 1910, 1912, something like that. Anyway, the tree burned down. Some guys from Cody went and sawed it down in the wilderness, which I don't think you're supposed to do, but they did it anyway, and they helicoptered it out of there. You can go see it in the Buffalo Bill Museum in Cody. If you guys are ever in Cody, it's worth a trip. But anyway, old Lee Livingston says, we're gonna camp under this, you know, basically at the stump of this old tree. And uh I was the camp cook at the time. I said, look, I'll do all the cooking. That's I kind of like doing that anyway. And I was fetching water one day between exasperating, frustrating, no sheep hunting. And uh I looked where we had the horses all tethered up to the hitching rails, and I found a nickel in that in that duff, all that kind of turned over stuff. It was from 1905.

SPEAKER_04 10:12

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 10:13

And the next day I killed that ram. And to me, that just it put it all together in like such crisp focus. It was the story of a lifetime. That is a good story.

SPEAKER_04 10:23

I mean, give me right, drew the tag, you know. Yeah, stayed in that cool spot, and then found a coin that predated the carving in the tree.

SPEAKER_01 10:34

Yeah, so I like I've just always imagined like maybe it fell out of you know, Buffalo Billy's wolf buffalo robe coat or something. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 10:42

And you're sure your role as the outdoor life editor didn't have any influence on this.

SPEAKER_01 10:49

Maybe somebody planted it for me to find out because that's a it's a unbelievable.

SPEAKER_06 10:54

Can you imagine?

SPEAKER_01 10:55

Go ahead.

SPEAKER_06 10:56

You still have the nickel?

SPEAKER_01 10:58

So I actually wrote about this, and uh I would have lost it. And one of the well, so here's one of the things like I think it's a historical artifact on public land. I don't I don't think I'm allowed to possess it. And so I'm gonna leave it open-ended what I did with it.

SPEAKER_05 11:15

There you go. Yeah, can you imagine that ensemble along with the Prince of Monaco? Yeah, 30 people traveling to go out and getting up there. I mean, bless Cody uh Buffalo Bill, haven't you having to feed all those people? And yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:36

It was, I mean, and it is. You you get you're you're just in this the Shoshone Rivers right there, so it's you got water, you got these soaring mountains. Now, of course, it's all a bunch of matchsticks kind of burned out, but you can just kind of blur your eyes and imagine what that must have been like when it was all timbered, and it's still even even hollowed out and burned over. It's still it's remarkable.

SPEAKER_05 11:57

I bet it is. What caliber did you use to kill your sheep? I used a 30-odd six.

SPEAKER_06 12:03

How about that? Hey, oh six, baby, even cooler.

SPEAKER_05 12:06

Yes, kind of like uh uh Jim Zumbo favorite right there. We just had Jim Zumbo a couple weeks on. We really enjoyed him.

SPEAKER_01 12:14

Yeah, so Jim was uh my hookup with Lee Livingston both living cody and yeah, Jim. Yeah, so full circle.

SPEAKER_05 12:22

Yeah, he told us he loves a 30 off six. Well, that's a beautiful mount. And uh what a great story, too. Yeah, it really is. Golly, and they're such iconic western creatures, but they are real and truly kind of out of reach for like I mean, I don't have any. I would love to kill one, but I know I don't probably not, it's not in the cards for me to kill one.

SPEAKER_04 12:43

You probably don't have enough breath. You know what I mean? It's I could make the breath of bread. A breath or bread.

SPEAKER_01 12:51

Yeah, I got well and it sounds like that pickup might get them a long way. Yeah, you're right. I don't think about that. Lock it in, Bobby.

SPEAKER_05 12:58

Oh Lord, that truck would not make it Wyoming, I don't think. All right, guys. Let's get serious here. Yeah. Um I want to just let me just say this. So I started Googling about Andrew. Let me just tell a little bit about him here. So outdoor life discovered Andrew. Andrew was an amateur boxer and a truck driver before joining the Merchant Marines, and he was discovered by an editor while he was in Cuba. He was in jail in Cuba for assault. Can you Andrew? That's what an interesting start to your career.

SPEAKER_01 13:33

You know, the interesting thing about that Cuba experience, and I they say it was a woman, but it was really uh advanced party for the Bay of Pigs. And I always thought the Bay of Pigs, I was going to be hog hunting, federal pigs. Like and so there I was, and all of a sudden these people came and put me away. And I it didn't make any sense until you know, uh years later when I got in that basically went to trucking school, and then it all kind of snapped into focus.

SPEAKER_05 14:00

You know, Andrew McCain, Hemingway, all these great writers, they all have a tie to Cuba. And I'm just thankful that outdoor life saw something in Andrew and brought him in.

SPEAKER_06 14:13

It worked. It worked.

SPEAKER_05 14:15

All right, well, I just thought I'd share that little tip. That is a tidbit to say the least. Look, I noticed you've got Tetra on your hat. Uh are you uh protecting your ears with their equipment?

SPEAKER_01 14:26

Oh yeah. You know, I am a big believer in them. I uh it's funny. I love the hat. I've got the smallest head in America and it fits me nicely. I have worn their earpieces, I can hear you thanks to their technology, but I do not own a Tetra. And so I'm trying to remedy that at some point.

SPEAKER_05 14:43

Well, you know what? They're great guys.

SPEAKER_01 14:44

We know them well. Yeah, good good dudes. Yeah, they make some growth. You put in a good word too.

SPEAKER_05 14:51

Yeah, we sure will, Andrew. I think they're big, big boxing fans. So once they hear that story, there you go. Pugilist isn't it a pugilist? All right, why don't we start? Dudley, you got some rapid fire.

SPEAKER_04 15:02

I hope you got some Cuban and some boxing questions on there. We ought to.

SPEAKER_06 15:06

Well, maybe I should have known. Okay, Andrew, I'm gonna ask you 10 or 12 questions in rapid fire. We're just trying to get to know you better. So uh give me a quick answer. Are you ready?

SPEAKER_05 15:18

Oh, yeah. Ready. This is brought to you by Nutrient Act Solutions.

SPEAKER_04 15:22

My buddies at Nutrient Act Solutions.

SPEAKER_06 15:24

Have you ever been hella skiing before? Never. What is the highest elevation you've ever been at?

SPEAKER_01 15:35

I'm tempted. I'm tempted to uh answer that with a metaphysical, you know, answer, but I'm gonna say 19,000 feet, 500, 19,525. Way up there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 15:46

What mountain is that? Denali? What mountain is that? That's uh that is in Kyrgyzstan. Okay. Kyrgyzstan. Yeah. Uh have you hunted more in the eastern half or the western half of the country in your lifetime? Western half by far. Okay. Name a fish species that you really like to eat. To eat? Yes, not to catch. I love I love walleye. They are delicious. Wallace are delicious. That's like the crappie of the north. Yeah, it is. Yeah. Uh what is the most days you've ever stayed in the backcountry at one time? Uh 33, 34. It's over a month. Wow. Goodness. I'm jealous. So pick one. Uh Rocky Mountain spring and summer or Rocky Mountain fall and winter. Oh, what a good one.

SPEAKER_01 16:42

Rocky Mountain fall and winter.

SPEAKER_06 16:44

Uh, do you normally hunt with lead or copper bullets? Big game. Ooh.

SPEAKER_01 16:51

Moving more toward copper. I do a lot of upland birds. That's leading.

SPEAKER_06 16:56

There you go. What is a preparation of elk or venison that you frequently cook?

SPEAKER_01 17:03

I am one of those grubby shank eaters. Uh big, slow cooked, braised shank. Usabuko. Nice. Our kind of guy. Golly.

SPEAKER_05 17:15

That must be from Kirstenican.

SPEAKER_04 17:17

They don't have that at heart. They don't have that at Hardy's, Bobby.

SPEAKER_06 17:20

Uh, have you ever cunt contracted a tick-borne illness? Yes. Um, let's see. When skinning game, do you typically use a folding knife or a fixed blade knife?

SPEAKER_01 17:34

What a good question. Typically a fixed blade knife.

SPEAKER_06 17:37

Um, and last but not least, how many acres of public land are you willing to give back to private? Ooh.

SPEAKER_01 17:46

Actually, 12.

SPEAKER_06 17:48

So that would be going back to you to put a little cabin on in the middle of the national forest. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 17:54

The reason I say that, I am actually not one of those, not a single acre, because I actually do think there are a few places that like, come on, it's not doing anybody any good. Let's let's get some good use of them and then and then really preserve that.

SPEAKER_04 18:07

That's a good point. Great point. I like it. No doubt about it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 18:10

Good questions, Deb. That's level-headedness right there. That's right.

SPEAKER_04 18:13

That is. Yeah. That's what we need. Some level headedness. All right. Dudley, awesome question.

SPEAKER_05 18:19

Well, thank you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 18:20

He is good.

SPEAKER_05 18:21

But we don't, you know, we don't give Dudley enough credit for Dudley for joking.

SPEAKER_06 18:25

Maybe I need to up it to 20 or 30 per person.

SPEAKER_05 18:30

All right. So here we are, Andrew. It's time. You've got a one heck of a story. Can you just start at the beginning and tell us this thing?

SPEAKER_01 18:39

Well, you know, I'm glad we kind of mentioned the sheep, kind of as a bit player in this whole thing, because this does involve Wyoming. And uh and preference points. So I had accumulated a whole bunch of elk preference points. I I I love elk. I love elk hunting with my bow. I like elk hunting with a rifle. I like elk. I mean, if I could chase them down like Bobby, I probably would just do it, but I need help. Uh so anyway, I had a bunch of preference points for Wyoming, and I was kind of figuring out okay, where am I gonna spend them? I coach cross-country here, and so like my fall is a little bit preoccupied. So I gotta kind of think about season seasonality of it. And there's been a place that's just always been on my mind, but it's a hard draw, and public access is is ludicrous. There's very, very little. So I was talking to my buddy. You should have this guy on, David Falbion. He's uh editor for Guns and Ammo. He lives in Sheridan, Wyoming. I was commiserating with him. He's a resident of Wyoming, and so I said, Where should I spend these points? And he's like, if you're up for it, I got do I have a deal for you? Like, well, tell me more. And David, I hope you do have him on so he can uh counter this accusation. He's he's a he's an open-minded thinker. And one of his open-mindednesses over the years has been, he's like, Makin, I'm gonna I'm gonna develop a batwing suit and I'm gonna fly into some of these landlocked parcels of public land. I'm like, that is ingenious. Let me know how it goes packing an elk out. Anyway, so he's been preoccupied with this sort of like airborne access for a long time. And and knowing that, I kind of did ask him, like, what would what do you think? And he's like, I think if you're willing to do it, let's hire a helicopter and fly into this public ground, assuming you can draw a tag for it. I like a challenge, and so it seemed good. This was, you know, months before the hunting season. And I so I put in and I convinced my buddy Ryan to share my preference points, and we both drew. And you know, then what? So we spent all summer looking at maps, and I would I drove down to this country and looked at it from the ground, and it is as landlocked as I've ever seen. There is one little piece of public access where you can get into it, but it's a 20-mile hike, and you got to go down these limestone canyons that require repelling gear and ropes. And again, a little like the Batwing suit, I was like, I think I could get there. I don't know how I could get an elk out of there. And I don't want to eat the whole elk in there. Um so anyway, we concluded let's hire a helicopter. And it was pricey, but it seemed like the best way to do it. And plus, it kind of goes back to your Dudley's public land question a little bit. You know, this is the kind of the simmering issue of the Western hunter is access is is is pretty interesting. And it's I mean, I've lived here a long time and it's it's not getting better, I would say. If anything, traditional access is getting either kind of removed by people buying land because of that access, or there's just more people at the more popular access points. And so kind of the calculus of any big game hunt in the West right now is kind of what's the access like? And so part of my calculus was if we can legally fly in um into this place, we ought to at least think about it. And so we actually we spent a lot of time looking at what the regs were and sure. Enough, we could fly from a road into a road. We could land on BLM land inside this big expanse of landlocked country, set up a wall tent and hunt our hearts out. And so basically we decided to do it. And that so that's the the prelude to the story that has like a bunch of weird plot twists to it. But Bobby, I think what you picked up on was it all worked out. I mean, it was so I'm used to elk hunts that don't include a lot of the main character. Um, you know, it's like, geez, four or five days later, like I would I I'd do anything just to see some elk sign. But we like the first night we were in this place, and the helicopter ride was just something out of like a movie, it was so cinematic and crazy. In fact, we brought a videographer to document this whole thing for outdoor life. And uh, I mean, there's elk all over the place. Anyway, let me ask this real quick. I got a couple questions too.

SPEAKER_05 22:56

So at this point, like when you're trying to find a helicopter, is some guy out there got some leftover piece of Vietnam equipment and that he's kept up and he's flying? Are we talking about a modern new helicopter with with all the bells and whistles?

SPEAKER_01 26:02

That is such a good question. You know, I'm gonna answer it sideways. One of my great like bucket lists is going to uh eastern Russia, you know, the Ch Ch Chikatna peninsula outside of the Vladivostok and hunting bears. And one of the ways you do that is on these like old Cold War era diesel helicopters. And I, you know, I can handle everything about the hunt. The cold doesn't bother me, the snow, let's just bring it on. But flying in those like vintage helicopters just doesn't seem like a recipe for longevity. So, anyway, I was a little worried about this. Well, this was Falbian's job. Like, you figure out the helicopter, I'll figure out the rest. And he had talked to like 20 Wyoming-based chopper pilots before he found this one guy. And it was like, I told David, like, send me a picture of the chopper. I want to make sure that this thing's rust or you know, whatever. And it is, I mean, the thing is gleaming. It looks like a sports car. It is like the most modern high performance chopper I've ever seen. Not that I've got a lot of experience with choppers, but it's pretty nice.

SPEAKER_05 27:06

Yeah, well, Falman sounds like if we had left this up to if Lanny had been in this equation and you left it, it would have looked like the Dukes of Hazard that had a helicopter.

SPEAKER_04 27:16

We borrowed, we borrowed one. That's what we would have done. All right, all right. So, Lenny, did you have a question? Yeah, just trying to understand, like when you're describing the lay of this land, I mean, how big of a chunk of public land is this? Yeah, great question.

SPEAKER_01 27:30

So it's 50 to 70,000 acres. Got you. And one, yeah, because part of it is wilderness. So that we we couldn't really hunt there because again, like we talked about with the bighorn sheep, I would need to have a guide. Okay. And so we kind of limited, I think the BLM, it was kind of a scattering of BLM state school trust sections, and there was a good deal of private land interspersed in there as well. So we had to kind of definitely know where we were the whole time. But I'm gonna say the huntable area was 40,000 acres, probably. I mean, a a good chunk of ground that we probably couldn't hold yeah, in a week. Like it, and it's rugged, rough country.

SPEAKER_06 28:12

Yeah, I would assume you couldn't land a chopper in a wilderness area anyway. Um you can't even use a chainsaw to clear a trail in a wilderness area.

SPEAKER_01 28:21

Much less drive chopper down and set up camp. Yeah. Yep. Well, and the other interesting thing, we looked at fixed wing aircraft flying in there, and it was it's such rugged country, and there's just no like designated landing strip. And so, really, I mean, from a practical standpoint, hiking was out. Flying in on a traditional aircraft was out. Um, the one thing I will say, we we could have and maybe should have done a better job of knocking on every door of the surrounding ranches before we concluded that there was no access. But its reputation was such there was no access. And so we were willing to kind of like, okay, it's on us to get in there. So so yeah, that's how we found ourselves aboard a helicopter with all of our camping gear. And and we were planning to stay in there about 10 days. Um, really, I mean, we were ready, we were prepared for bad snow, we were prepared for just about anything, except tagging out in three days.

SPEAKER_04 29:14

Yeah, I saw I did so. I guess the plan was y'all you fly me in and I'm gonna call you, or you gotcha.

SPEAKER_01 29:21

We kind of had we kind of yeah, that's a great question, honestly. Like, I've hunted Alaska enough where you gotta have like an extraction. Yeah, like in case I can't get in touch with you. Here's the last, you know, here's the here's the drop. I'd say drop dead. I'll still say here's the drop dead coming on this day. Unless we call you. And we did have kind of marginal cell service. We got to the higher stuff. So we basically told the chopper pilot, come back on in 10 days unless we get in touch with you early. Gotcha.

SPEAKER_04 29:50

And hopefully we got a pile of elk you need to want to help us with. Yeah, yeah, right. Nice. It's kind of like a fun treat. I'm telling you, I'm excited about it.

SPEAKER_01 29:58

I want to go, you know. Well, here's the thing, and you guys know this. Like, I mean, this solo hunting turns my crank. I love to just strike out and just see where the day takes me. But there's something about camping with your buddies. We had two tents, we had you know, freeze-dried food and enough. I mean, we did we it was a buddy hunt, and just the camaraderie of that and almost like the the challenge and the hardship and just all of the unknowns of it, just gelled. Oh, yeah. We just gelled as a group, and there's just there's something so fun about that. That yeah, it would have been interesting by myself, but it was so fun to share it with somebody. Had anybody ever done this before? Or y'all the first? Actually, that's a good question.

SPEAKER_04 30:42

Dang. I'm tired, I'm trying to get an invite out of this eventually, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 30:49

Um, yeah, there was a guy who had a moose tag, and and actually they had uh hired the same chopper pilot to bring him in there earlier in the fall. So we hunted in November. I think this guy was in there in September and kind of figured out landing zone places that they could basically hunt from there. They never encountered any moose, which I can see. This wasn't really moosey country, but they at least proved the concept. Yeah. Nate. All right. So yeah, we uh I mean, I was the first one up, and you know, Bobby, you'll maybe appreciate this, maybe not, but going along with my uh boxing skills, uh they call me the predator in cheese. That's great. That's great. And uh, I'm I mean, I'm a meat hunter, like I'm not holding out for the biggest rack in the world, like and so, but I was also like, okay, I know my reputation, I'm not gonna like push anybody out of the way to get the first shot. I'm gonna be patient. But the first night we watched all these elk feet out of the timber, and I was like, um, are you gonna shoot that with it?

SPEAKER_03 31:59

Because if you're not, yeah, I look at one in the hands better than one in the bush.

SPEAKER_01 32:04

Exactly. And so I ended up feeling my tag first, and I mean it was just like ludicrous, like it worked, and we were both, I think all of us. So it was David and me, and my buddy Ryan and Ben, this other Montana or Wyoming resident who knew something about the area. So he was kind of going along as basically meat packer and and comic relief. And then we had the videographer. So there's five of us, and we were all just looking at each other like astonished. Like, holy smokes, there's Elk in here.

SPEAKER_04 32:33

So you had to get did they bring in one at a time? You said you were the first in, or did y'all load it? Was it a big enough chopper? Y'all could go in there together. Did you see that? Did you hear that chopper effect I threw in there? That was nice, wasn't it? Pretty good.

SPEAKER_01 32:48

Uh you'd you'd you'd look good in Batwing suits. Oh, yeah, you go thank you. Um it was small enough we couldn't take us all, and we had a bunch of gear. I mean, we had camping gear for you know a long time, so you know, duffel bags and tents and sleeping bags and all that stuff. So I think the way it worked, the chopper probably made three trips bringing us in. And I have to say at the outset, like I'm I'm a quiet hunter. I like, I just I like hunting quietly, and and this was so disruptive. I mean, helicopters are hard to be subtle. Like this is, you know, no, you're coming. That's right. Three trips in there. I just I had this strong sense that everybody knew we were in there, like all the neighbors. We you know, we flew over a couple of ranch homesteads, and it's like, I mean, we're not hiding anything, there's nothing to hide, but it just felt a little like like we were being bad company in some ways. It's hard to even put it. Just like we're just so aggressive. Um, and I almost wanted to like apologize to people like, hey, sorry, we're like in your backyard, you didn't invite us, but here we are, and we'll try to be light on the land. I did, I just felt a little responsibility for being there. Well, that's good.

SPEAKER_06 33:56

So you wouldn't call this a leave no trace type hunt. Well, you did.

SPEAKER_01 34:00

You you probably left without a trace, but we left without a trace. We tried to be pretty light on the land, but like just the just the sensory part of it. I mean, that's like we were we had a big cast of long shadow, I guess is the best way to put it. Yeah. But so the second day we're in there, we got into two more elk. And uh all of a sudden, three days in, we are we're tagged out. Uh back back up.

SPEAKER_05 34:22

Well, I just want to make sure we got that.

SPEAKER_04 34:24

What you went you you it was day two. So you you harvested your elk on the first night.

SPEAKER_01 34:31

And how big was your elk? It was a good six by six. I mean, I haven't put a tape on him, but he's a 320-class bull. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 34:39

Yeah, 20. He's a good bull. He's a shooter. Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_01 34:42

I don't blame you. But it was also the smallest of the three bulls we killed. Oh, wow. Yeah. So Ryan shot probably a 350 class bull, and then David also shot a dang nice bull that kind of fits slots right in the middle of the of the two. Um, yeah, so we were done, and now we're meat packers, which I mean, I'm made to pack meat. I love packing meat, partly because it's like just such satisfying. Like I'm done, you know, and now I can turn my attention to like getting the rest of it, the trophy parts out. But that's where this thing took a weird turn and kind of this plot twist we didn't see coming. And uh, and this has been really the highest profile part of it. I think just the audacity of hiring a helicopter and flying in is like that definitely is a head turner. But what happened next was just crazy. So Ryan and I are back at camp, um, actually doing some video stuff, just kind of recounting what we had experienced. When we, and I think we were all actually back camp. We heard three shots kind of back in this backcountry, and all of us. And I think this is a testament to kind of our like big, I'd like to say kind of big-heartedness, but we were like, good for whoever like found a way in here, like, like honestly, good for them. And we were like, we're tagged out. I wonder if this guy needs help packing, like we're here to help. Kind of like we were so sort of self-satisfied, I guess, with the experience. We're like, we're willing to share it. Anyway, we heard the shots and we were and then and then David and and Ben decided, look, you guys are gonna slow roll your getting to your job of packing meat. We're gonna head to the kill site and start packing. It was gonna be a hot, um, dry day. So we had a bunch of water, we had all of our packs emptied out and ready to haul meat. So, anyway, I say that because there was this this time lag was important. By the time I got to the kill site with Ryan and the videographer, David and Ben were like out of breath, flushed, and agitated, like something had happened in the intervening time. We're like, what is going on? And they're just like, turn the camera on, we got a story for the ages here. So, like I if you ever look at this video, we are like hearing it for the very first time. Ben and and Ryan, or Ben and David got to the kill site, and they're like, you know, I wonder where that other hunter is. And so they just peeled up their binoculars and are looking from this kind of high height of land. And Ben sees a guy going across a lower meadow with an elk rack over his back, and like, well, there he is, but kind of odd, he doesn't have a gun, he's not wearing any orange, which is kind of just uh unusual during hunting season. And Ben's like, I could be wrong, but that looks like Ryan's elk that this guy is carrying. And David's like, no, and Ben's like, before we rush to any like conclusions, let me run up to the kill site and see if Ryan's rack is there. And if it is, no harm, no foul. Well, Ben runs up to the kill site, Ryan's rack is not there. Wow, and he shouts to David, like, go after that SOB, he's got Ryan's rack. And they so they both bail off with this really steep ridge, and they basically chase this guy down who sees him coming, hides in the woods. And and Ben, like legitimately, he's like, I was worried, like, there might be gunplay or something. I don't know what's going on. So this guy is sort of like furtively hiding in the trees, and and Ben's like, Hey, I see in there, come out, come out and let's talk about this. What are you doing? And then he says to David, hey, turn on your camera on your phone, like let's capture this. And so, what you see on the video is kind of what happened next. This guy steps out of the trees, and he's it's kind of cringy to watch. He is like kind of caught like a rat, you know, it's just like he's nervous, and it's just it's it's just a high tension moment. And Ben is like, I explain yourself, what are you doing? And the guy's like, you know, kind of first, like, oh well, nothing. What are you talking about? And like Ben's like, dude, we saw you carry the L crack in here. That's our L crack. Where is it and why do you do it? And the guy basically says on camera, I took it because I don't want you in here. I'm trying to discourage you from hunting this outfit. Which, you know, is kind of alarming, but Ben no kind of as a local, he's like, he recognizes this guy. This is the owner of the big ranch we flew over. And the and the rancher recognizes Ben. And so there's this kind of oddity of like, it's not unlike rural Mississippi or rural Monte. Like everybody kind of knows everybody a little bit. And so that added a little bit of like odd oddity to this whole thing. Like they kind of they kind of know who each other is, but the upshot of it is you know, this guy absconded with our elk. But it's just it's just a head scratcher. And so basically, Ben and David and the rancher go down into this cut, this little this little um eroded cut bank where he had stuffed the elk rack. Interestingly, like there's a couple of things that are just like eight seconds later, we Ben and David never would have seen him on that map. Right.

SPEAKER_04 39:53

I was thinking that same thing.

SPEAKER_01 39:55

He just would have been out of sight and we would have been like scratching our heads, like, what happened to Ryan's rack? And we ne, I mean, we never ever would have gone looking for it down in this weird, out-of-the-way place.

SPEAKER_04 40:06

Yeah, you got a helicopter in, and all of a sudden a dude's over there taking the rack off your elk and running off with it.

SPEAKER_01 40:13

This is but you know, like straying back kind of the chronology going backward, Ryan shot his bull above the guy's ranch house. And we at late in the day, we by the time we took it all apart and quartered it and got all the meat kind of hung out and cooled, we had our headlamps on. And you know, I know how it is if somebody's in my backyard. You I mean, you just know their presence is there. And so I'm sure it was like this guy was just boiling. Like these guys are up there, like he's an outfitter as well, who sells all kinds. And so I think he, I'm not excusing his behavior, but I'm trying to understand it. Like, he he thought we were stealing from him. You know, in some like perverse way.

SPEAKER_04 40:56

Yeah, he just about his action. How far was he in there from his ranch?

SPEAKER_01 41:03

You know, probably like three quarters of a mile, and it's not general country. I mean, so three quarters of a mile linearly, and then I don't know, a thousand, twelve hundred feet. I mean, I'll tell you what, the dude's in good shape. Yeah. He's no Bobby Cole, but he's in good shape.

SPEAKER_05 41:18

There's not many of them. We call him Slim Good Bobby. That's right. I I can't so you're hearing all this. You just gotta be stunned and uh that this is happening to y'all.

SPEAKER_01 41:29

Yeah, I mean, yeah, and they are like, they can't even believe like it's just there, it's it's just like rushing out of them, this story. And we're hearing it for the first time. The videographer is just like behind his camera, just like shaking his head, like, what is going on? But so kind of no harm, no foul, right? We got the elk rack back, we got the meat back, and in the course of the day, and I think this is something like good honest work of packing meat, it gives you like some mental space to kind of think about stuff. And as we packed and sweated and talked, like, what's our obligation here? Like, this guy is ashamed of himself. Like, I don't want, we don't want to make it worse for him. On the other hand, like, that's theft. Like that, you know, and and it maybe it's hunter harassment too. And so we concluded when we got back to camp that night, we had no cell service down where we were. When we were tired and getting back up into that higher country, we're like, let's at least call the game warden to report it. So at least our side of the story is documented because maybe this guy is feeling queasy enough about everything. Maybe he's calling in to invent something. And we just wanted to have our side. So we called the game warden, and the game, the game war is actually great. He's just like, he heard the whole thing and he he could kind of hear it and pause on the phone. He's like, Yeah, I have never heard of anything like this before. He's like, This is like reverse poaching.

SPEAKER_03 42:52

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:54

That's kind of a good perspective. But um, so we uh weather was coming in, we were tagged out, we spent the next day getting the rest of the meetup, and then we called the chopper pilot in and came out early. And uh, and we kind of had a pact among the five of us. Like, you know what? This is a sensational story, but we didn't feel like sensationalizing it, if that makes sense. Kind of goes back to that. Like, I don't know, I it just was out of my character as being a little more of a in the background kind of person. And uh I don't know, maybe half of us upheld that idea, and the other half like could not wait to tell the world about it. And just pretty soon by the time we got out to like the asphalt roads, like the word was out, and we were getting calls and like, wait, what happened to you guys? And so it was pretty hard to contain at that point. And then we went and talked to the game warden when we came out, and he kind of took a statement, we gave him our videos and all that stuff. And then basically we came home. I mean, I had more hunting, hunting to do, I had you know, meat to butcher and and uh and kind of put it behind me a little bit mentally. I mean, we had this movie to make of everything, and I wanted the movie that we made to reflect both sides of the story. Like part of it, the main reason reason we went in is it was to kind of prove up this idea of access. Like we could, it's a legitimate way to access. Maybe it's a little aggressive, but hey, it's kind of what the West has become in some ways, too. And like we've proved the value proposition of it. So the movie was gonna be about that, but we couldn't ignore what had happened to us either, you know, and just kind of as a journalist, I've I wanted to tell both sides of the story. So anyway, we did, and it the thing has blown up. I mean, it has been, I don't know how many views that thing has got on YouTube.

SPEAKER_04 46:38

I bet so. So I gotta ask more stuff about the helicopter. So did did y'all packing the meat out? Um, was it on board the helicopter? Was there a rack up under it? I mean, did y'all do it all at one time? Did it take you three more trips to come out?

SPEAKER_01 46:54

Yeah, it did. So I was out, I was the first one out, and uh I took, what did I take? I took all the camping gear, a bunch of the meat, but the um there's a belly hook on this chopper, and the belly hook has got you guys know about those. I'm sure you see them, well, especially if nutrient ag solutions is your sponsor, those big like feed sacks that are like Kevlar or like that woven nylon.

SPEAKER_04 47:19

Super sacks, what we call them.

SPEAKER_01 47:21

Wow, this one's a bit like this. Must be a you know, I'm used to the 50 pounders. This must have been like capacity of 250 pounds, or maybe more than that. I bet 500. I mean big pounds.

SPEAKER_06 47:32

Yeah, what we're talking about, you know, has uh a loop on either corner. It's a cube shape, and I think it holds a thousand pounds of on on top of a pallet.

SPEAKER_01 47:42

Yeah, a whole month. Okay, that's exactly what we used. Yep. And so we um I don't think I took any of that because when the chopper pilot went back for the next trip, he grabbed everything that would fit in one of those big hoppers, and that was all three elk rags. I'm gonna say three quarters of the meat. I mean, it was a load. Yeah, I know it because when he came back, I was the only one to unload it. And that would be a while to get all that out of there. And then his last load, he took out the three dudes and anything else that was left.

SPEAKER_05 48:15

So, Andrew, the the hiring the helicopter was cheaper than doing a guided hunt, then that that's kind of how where y'all came to all this.

SPEAKER_01 48:24

That's kind of where we all came to it. Yeah, I mean, like substantially cheaper, and especially so there were three of us who had tags. So even you know, and we took in five of us, it was cheaper by far for five of us to fly in than for three of us to outfit it.

SPEAKER_05 48:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 48:40

Did the um did the guy apologize or anything?

SPEAKER_01 48:45

No. Actually, on camera, he kind of grudgingly did. Ben was kind of Ben is the True pugilist of this group. I mean, Ben was like, his fists are bald up, and like, and I think the guy was like, All right. And Ben kept saying, No, I want you to apologize. That's all I want out of this thing. And finally, guys, all right, I'm sorry. It's kind of like well, it's kind of like when your sister apologizes to you, client, I don't know. Yeah, yeah. You know, then look you in the eye, looks at her shoes and apologizes. It was a little bit like wow.

SPEAKER_05 49:13

What an experience. But it on the flip side, it sounds like the hunting was fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 49:17

Yeah. Oh, the hunting was off the hook. And and so Bobby mentioned on the conservation editor, Outdoor Life, in addition to the hunting editor, and this was almost like two sides. Almost like the good angel is the hunting. No, the bad angel's the hunting angel, and the good angel's the conservation angel. There it is. And I'm not saying bad necessarily.

SPEAKER_04 49:38

No, it's taken and putting back though. I mean it is. We talk about it all the time.

SPEAKER_01 49:41

So I see like the the conservation side of it, like the reason it was so good is this is a sanctuary, right? These elk are not expecting a helicopter to drop in their living room. And I have to keep that in mind. Like air obligation to that place and to those elk. I I mean, we followed all the laws, but I think there was a little bit of like we we pushed the easy button in some ways. And that that one still kind of rubs me a little bit.

SPEAKER_06 50:09

Well, I mean, if if you can't access it any other way, which Right. You know, like you said, I mean, you can't you can't downclimb with a bunch of meat on it. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 50:22

Yeah, you'd be wasting it. That's right.

SPEAKER_06 50:24

Um that I mean, uh so I mean, in my mind, you you deserve a right, and if that's the only way you can get in there, then you should be able to do it.

SPEAKER_04 50:33

And I'm personally getting older in life, and and you know, I there's something to be said about working smarter instead of working harder.

SPEAKER_06 50:39

I mean, having said that, you know, when you're at the Grand Canyon or something, the last thing you want to hear is those dang helicopters coming up and down all day. Uh so it, you know, it it wouldn't maybe wouldn't be cool if that happened 20 or 30 times every elk season in that area, but you're also trying to prove a point. You know, you we deserve access to that government land.

SPEAKER_04 51:02

And yes, you're right. You drew the tag, you know what I mean. If you can figure out how to do it, you can figure out how to do it. I mean, speaking from just, you know, I mean, most most of this stuff around here, even it's very small public land access. I mean, there's a lot of land to access, but it's all about how you get there, is where the good stuff is. So if you can find a way to do it that nobody else is doing it, the hunting tends to be better. I want to know more about the hunting. Like, I I'm like, I'm when you're talking about this, I'm seeing this chopper sit down. I see this cool camp, and then like I mean, it's like y'all got some boiling water and then there's elk just surrounding you. You know, is that how it was, or did you was it spot and stalk kind of stuff? Or I mean, we're just can you tell us a little bit about the hunt?

SPEAKER_01 51:42

Yeah, and what what season was it? Yeah. So it was this would have been post-rut, like later in November. And so I think there was a couple of things in our favor. One is the weather was open, like had it been snowbound, I think the elk would still be in there, but it would have changed the dynamics a little bit. So our main thing, we got in there, we boiled water, we set up, but we didn't, and we started glassing from high points. We saw nothing. We finally did see like two bulls back in the timber, but like a mile away. And they were kind of hung up on the side slope, and we're like, you know what? Let's just at least go down to the bottom of this draw and kind of see what happens. But it was a genius move, it turned out, because there's this big timbered ridge that it turned out was full of elk that we couldn't see. And what they did is they fed down slope and then out in the open as the sun got low. There was a spring or a seep down there. It was probably only water that they had available to them. I'm pretty sure that's where they were headed. But as we watched, you know, the two bulls that we had seen earlier kind of came out, and then two other junior varsity bulls came out, and they're like, We had better get up into a spot where, in case a bigger bull comes out, at least we're in position. So we kind of did that. We got it, and we had to kind of pussyfoot our way into there. There was some mueller we didn't want to bump, and like it was definitely good hunting, but the wind was right, and we just laid up and then waited for the bulls to feed to us. That was the first night, and it just worked awesome. But the second day was you know, we started earlier because we were already in there, and it was a lucky spot. We saw like a one antler tyne a mile and a half away. And we're like, that's it, looks like a good bull, but maybe there's more, who knows? Let's just go spend the whole day there. So we went, we we packed in there kind of spike camping. We all took a sleeping bag in case we needed to spend the night outs outside from our tent. And we went kind of light to cover a ton of ground and kind of see what we could see. And it was hot, like for November, it was like almost 70 degrees. And knowing elk as I do, like they've got their winter coats on, they don't want to be in the sunshine. And so we kept looking in shady little spots where there was breeze kind of blowing, and that's exactly where we found them, kind of in the open in this this canyon country. So it's definitely spot in stock for those last two bulls. I love that a little bit of everything. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 54:00

Did you see any other hunters while you were back there?

SPEAKER_01 54:03

None. I mean, besides this rancher running off with his horns.

SPEAKER_05 54:07

Was it pristine? Like you felt like you were walking someplace that very very few people walk.

SPEAKER_01 54:13

It it was incredible. When we there's two things I'd say about that is our landing zone with the helicopter. LZ is what we would refer to that. Here you're there. Chopper. I got all of the camping gear and all of our kit out of the belly of the chopper and kind of put it in a big pile. And then the chopper took off, and I was waiting for the rest of the guys to come. I looked down, and there's arrowhead flakes right where we are. Whoa. It was just like it was so cool. Like this is definitely a hunting ground and has been for years. But it was cool country, it was real broken country, but very pristine. We never saw, I mean, there were so we landed on a little ranch or two track on the BLM country. Actually, it was on a state section. But so there had, you know, ranchers had had had gone in there. I mean, there was definitely there's fences, you know, there's signs of human habitation and human use in there, but boy. Oh, and we found like a little trapper's cabin down there made out of stone, like it but just so stinking. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 55:21

Goodness. What did so the helicopter flew from a from a public road? Y'all parked your your your car, your trucks, and that loaded everything up. And I I was I'm surprised that nobody was there when the helicopter came back to say, what in the world is who what's going on here? Who have you got what you got the Prince of Monaco and his ensemble, or what's going on?

SPEAKER_06 55:43

No, we've got the editor-in-chief of Outdoor Live.

SPEAKER_01 55:46

Yeah, the predator in chief. Yeah, well, there you go. Predator in chief. That's a funny observation, Bobby, because the one reason I flew out early. I was the first one out there was uh I was not Ben Rogers with my fists all balled up, and I thought there's gonna be somebody waiting for us at the pickup. And I at least I thought I could explain myself better than the other guys. Yeah, so I was fully expecting somebody with their arms crossed waiting for us.

SPEAKER_04 56:10

We would we would have definitely sent Bobby first.

SPEAKER_01 56:15

The negotiator.

SPEAKER_04 56:15

He's the negotiator. That's right.

SPEAKER_01 56:18

So, but there wasn't anybody now. Nobody had messed with their pickups and there was nobody there, and and uh yeah. What a story.

SPEAKER_04 56:26

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I would have been really anxious though, coming out of there after all that, you know, like, oh my goodness, we know what's going on. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:33

Well, we were can't we were gonna spend another night or two back there, but you know, we're also like this has gotten weird already. We don't want it to get weird. Yeah, we don't want a chapter two, that's right. No, we don't. It's like and like if this guy was willing to do what he did, what else might he be willing to do? And so we're just like, you know what, let's just get out of here. We've we've made our point and we've kind of done the damage. Let's go.

SPEAKER_04 56:55

Yeah, yeah. I bet he was shocked. And the cooler is full. Mission accomplished.

SPEAKER_05 56:59

Oh, very. I bet he was pretty shocked to get for y'all to catch him like that.

SPEAKER_04 57:02

Y'all had to have unbelievable timing. I mean, just the fortunate to be there at the right time to see him, you know, and be able to see him. Like when I go out there, it takes me a while to even get, you know. Where I can see anything. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 57:18

And and the the your friend that hollered, hey, get him get him. Yeah, I mean, I could picture hollering at Landing. He'd be like, What?

SPEAKER_06 57:25

What? Yeah. Well, you know, in the back of your mind, you're wondering, is this is this some kind of is this real? Is this some kind of sitter crazy man that lives out in the middle of the woods that's you know Right.

SPEAKER_04 57:37

Yeah. I mean, it's probably all these things going on in your mind. I would have thought I was, I was like, uh-oh, I'm on the wrong place, you know.

SPEAKER_01 57:47

It was interesting. I mean, they they reacted on sort of a gut level instinct of like, let's go chase this guy down. Because it had they contemplated it, maybe waited for us to catch up, I don't think the outcome would have been the same.

SPEAKER_06 58:01

Do you think you would have been able to put two and two together? Uh I mean, you may not have been able to have any proof, but you know, maybe a game warden could have gone and knocked on his door a couple weeks later, you know, that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_04 58:14

But like, yeah, but Frank, we know it was you. Give us the antlers.

SPEAKER_01 58:21

I think we would have put together those three shots we heard. Thought there's another hunter in here, he encountered our meat and antlers and just took the antlers. Yeah, what we wouldn't have had to do.

SPEAKER_04 58:32

So he was thinking he was gonna say that he killed it. Is that what it was? Is that why he shot? Or did he shoot?

SPEAKER_01 58:39

He shot, I'm sure. Although we never saw him with a gun. We never saw him with a rifle. So that's a good I that's a presumption, but I I can't confirm it.

SPEAKER_04 58:47

And three times too. I mean, because isn't that the usual sign for help?

SPEAKER_05 58:51

I mean, I'm just gonna think it is y'all might have left somebody up there that you know this whole corner crossing thing and the land that's not available that it's hard it's hard to get to, that is it's just uh gosh, it's a problem that I don't I mean, what's the e is there an answer to all this?

SPEAKER_04 59:15

I really think the answer is kind of what Andrew's talking about is like, you know, put yourself in other people's shoes and and try to be, you know, good representatives of of the culture we represent as hunters and outdoorsmen and conservationists, because I mean, on on the e the little stuff we fight around here on public land, it's not it's not, you know, worth it, you know. I mean, it really isn't so.

SPEAKER_06 59:36

I don't know. It's kind of there's an 80 of public near here that is landlocked. It's making me inspiring me to find out how to get in there. A chopper. You need a chopper. Just to go squirrel on.

SPEAKER_01 59:50

I do think there are a couple of keys to the lock. And I think one, like, I think it's a big issue, and I think it's a it's going to be a bigger issue as we kind of lose more land, and as as the remaining land we have becomes more like has more perceived value. And I think so. Looking at it in this case, like there's a wildlife management implication to this, right? These are kind of unhuntable, unaccessible elk. But the state's got some obligation to get hunting in there to manage them. It can't just be a private enclave that's only accessible to the people who control the access. That's just not how our system is designed. And I think no, and so if looking at it from the rancher standpoint, if if we sort of prove the concept that you can get in there, now all of a sudden his exclusive access is degraded or devalued a little bit. And I actually think those two things are of a negotiating point to say, look to the rancher. Like we've got land and water conservation funding from the feds, you know, that's that offshore oil revenue that is supposed to be used for conservation purposes and access. We've got the state of Wyoming's got what's called an XSES program. It basically pays landowners to allow public access. And it's it's incentivized. They're getting paid for it. I actually think we can do a better job of incentivizing it for people like that rancher to say, okay, for a couple of weeks of the season, you've got exclusive use to it. But later on, why don't we pay you half of an elk hunt or a quarter of an elk hunt to allow somebody to trespass over your place to get in there? You're gonna make some money out of it that you wouldn't ordinarily. They're gonna get access where you don't have to hire a helicopter. I I think the more we sort of open our minds to what is possible, I think there's I actually think there's a lot of opportunity to that kind of model.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:42

I've only been, you know, fortunate enough to elk hunt when Colorado and New Mexico, but New Mexico has a ranching, I think, uh incentive program where um, and I'm gonna get this wrong, where uh you can there's they get value, I guess, for the bet the is the best way to put it, the private landowners do, whether it's in the in the form of more tags for them, you know, uh for them granting public asset access, therefore they have more, you know, tags to sell or, you know, again monetize. But yeah, 100%, Andrew.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:15

Yeah, I think Colorado does something similar with their ranching for wildlife. You have to let the public maybe come in and take some cows or or maybe a bull or two, but but you get more tags yourself and you get earlier access to the hunting season. Something like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:31

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:32

There's some great things that are going on out in the western states. And yes. Um, you know, the the the corner crossing and the access is is one issue that boy, I hope it can be figured out.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:43

Well, I mean, it and it, you know, that that style of hunting or or even you know, backpacking in the summer uh has just gotten so much more popular in recent years. Like there's places I I went when I was younger where you would never see a single person. Um, and now when you camp, you know, you see colored tents all in the background around you.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:04

Uh same thing for I mean, public access here too. It's gotten more popular.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:08

But uh, you know, that's just something we're facing, and we're gonna have to deal with it the best way we can.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:13

Yeah, because we've got a finite resource, you know. Yeah, and then uh people having babies all the time.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:19

Yeah, we want to do what we love, you know.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:21

Andrew, you got a heck of a story. Yeah, you do.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:25

Yeah, it but I'm gonna pull that thread just a little bit more because I think I I've kind of you know we blame COVID for a lot of that. You know, if COVID came and everybody like rediscovered their outdoor roots. But I actually think there's some like generationally, and talk about having more babies, like we have lost so much of our rural connection. You know, the uncle whose place we could go hunt or granddad's place where you know my dad grew up and we could still hunt. And so we've lost that traditional access. And so in some ways, yeah, there's there's more people doing it, but there's also less availability of that traditional private land access that we used to do.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:03

The world's being fragmented.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:04

Yeah, and the big tracks for small tracks. That's right.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:06

And you know, people value what they have more. Well, I don't know if you would say that they value it more than than they used to. But yes, I mean, that bass fishing pond that you you know you could always fish go to as a kid, you can't just pull up and and go there anymore. You know, there may be a subdivision built around it now, you know.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:29

Yeah, you know, uh the the Lanny, when I think about them choppering in and choppering out, it how much fun that would have been.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:35

Oh, I I bet they were high fiving.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:37

Oh, yeah, I would have been at some point, you know, that when they're coming to pick you up and you're at the LZ, you'd have to say get to the chopper. Yeah, of course. That would be so much fun.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:47

I was thinking like maybe they're blaring the Magnum PI theme song on a turtle box or something when they're yeah, when they're flying in.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:54

Love it. Well, this mustache didn't just happen accidentally. I grew up with something.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:00

I was gonna draw a comparison to that as quick as I got a chance. I'm telling you, this is a an incredible story, and it I'm glad it happened to you because you've told it so well.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:13

Well, thanks. It uh it I I'm glad it happened to me too, but it was it's it it it does, it keeps you up and right.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:19

And it and it kind of ended like to you said it. I mean, no harm, no foul. Y'all, you know, of course, it reported it but didn't make a big deal out of it. You know, I think the guy probably was like, hmm, thought I was gonna get away with that, but I didn't, you know what I mean? So I think y'all handled it perfectly. Yeah, I do too.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:34

Well, we we kind of we took our hands off of it and let the authorities and so the gate the actually the fishing games like we're not gonna touch this. We don't there's just it doesn't seem like hunter harassment, even though I think maybe that would be the charge I would have pursued. But the county attorney, I think, is pursuing misdemeanor theft charges. And I don't know what's gonna happen to me. The guy's gotten the shame and the I think kind of the psychic punishment that is plenty, yeah, honestly. Yeah, um, but I think it's uh it's still alive. I mean, I think that trial is gonna be in June, and we'll have to see what happens with it.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:11

Goodness gracious. Wow. Well, why don't we change gears just a little bit? We've got Lanny, is this the week we're giving away$5,000? Uh no, unfortunately not. Oh, Andrew, I'm sorry for that. Well, we do have uh we've got you'll be playing for a nucleum blind that you could boy, you would be uh you would really get some use out of it when you're trying to turkey on out there in those western states. But Richie, have we got the question ready?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:36

Yeah, yep. We do have a question ready. Yeah, what was that? Um that's a good question. What was that?

SPEAKER_06 1:06:48

That was on my end. Maybe it's that guy trying to intervene.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:52

I'm listening to the podcast. All right, so we have a listener who left a review on YouTube. He listened to our latest podcast, number 426, Turkey Call History with Brent Rogers. Uh, left a review. Great episode. Can't hit the like button enough.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:06

Wow, I forget we're on YouTube. Yeah, that's good. Everybody feeling the love. Thank you.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:10

Tune in and look at Bobby. Check us out on YouTube. Andrew, this question is so easy. If I I mean, I should go ahead and give this to the shipping department, let them start shipping the package right now.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:20

But yeah. Uh well, first uh, before we get to the question, though, I need to ask uh Andrew, uh, do you like bowl peanuts? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. All right.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:33

Great, because our uh trivia here is brought to us by the Peanut Patch. I'm telling you, Richard, you were doing a great job of MCing today. Picking up your Slack, Bobby. So yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:45

I saw some at Wally World the other day on the rack.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:48

So yeah, here's this super difficult question for you. Uh, when was Outdoor Life magazine founded? 1898.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:59

How did he know that? So you you you probably figured out what his gate code is. Yeah, yeah. Or his pin number.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:08

A long time ago. Yeah. And just congratulations for you guys keeping that brand around and and all the information y'all think about all the articles that have been written for.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:18

Oh, and how many you know, young people they've inspired to get out there and you know, chase their dreams to hunt and fish. That's right. That's right. Andrew, y'all have just done a remarkable job.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:27

Good work. Good work. Well, thanks. It's actually we grieved the loss of the print publication, but it's kind of it's it's honestly, it's been it's free. It's been freeing. Like the amount of content that we can put up online and in social. And I mean, it is it, it's it's been cool. It's been a really good transition. So I'm just I'm saying keep the magazine, but it's not the end of the world if you don't. We definitely need some advice, Andrew, on lots of things around here.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:51

So oh my goodness. Hey, uh, so uh Andrew and who left that review? They if they'll get in touch with you.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:00

Yeah, so uh yeah, Ryan Williams. Ryan Williamson. Sorry, right.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:05

Ryan Williamson just won a nucleum blind. All right, and Andrew, you want for getting that question so fast. You went we'll get one shipped up to you. He's a winner, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:16

So I bet that would work really good on the on a riverbank, you know, duck hunting in the Rocky Mountains. Probably set up behind that thing real easy, towed it in.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:26

Yeah, you could. You wouldn't have to have a helicopter to get that one going. So look, uh a couple of weeks ago we did a podcast with Pat Strauser. Yes. And he had one of these old uh he had a pot call that uh was made from the the the the a murder press. No, it was Patty Press. No, no, Laney, please. It was it was a piece of oak that I think they from that was used on the same calls that the Mr. Fox vest, those 10 calls were made from. It was the same wood. So he had one that we were gonna give away, and we got all those. If you have if you emailed, if you left a review, we got all we accumulated all that. And Mitchell and Richie built this spinning board.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:10

Is that the wheel of fortune?

SPEAKER_05 1:10:11

We're gonna spin this real fast. Hang on, Andrew.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:15

Look at here, and we're gonna spin it to see who won.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:17

Yeah, we are. So this is being done electronically.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:20

I hope we know them in real time.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:22

Yeah, go ahead, Richie. Let's go. Oh, got sound. It's a that is crazy. I cannot read it, so somebody else is gonna have to read it. No, no way! It's our buddy Travis Sleezak. Travis Sleezak, you've just won that call. So uh we'll be getting that uh look, Debbie.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:43

Give a little history on Travis. Travis and I have been chatting on the phone, you know, once every few months for years. Um and he'll order seedlings and call me and tell tell me about them and and their progress and whatnot. So you know, we've gotten to be buddies over the years. I've never met him in person, but uh he's got a cool story, and I'm I'm really happy for you, Travis. So he's congrats.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:07

Winning a pot call made out of the woods.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:11

That the that the that the tin calls that were in the Mr. Fox, the the one thing that were auctioned, um it's out of that same wood. Nice.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:21

So that would be very collectible, but I Travis, I'm gonna urge you to get some blood on that.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:26

Yeah, that's right. Go put some put some meat on the bottom. It's made to use. There you go.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:30

Wow. Yeah. And hey, one more thing before we leave this. We've got uh we've got this silencer central suppressor that we're giving away in about a month. And how do they sign up for that?

SPEAKER_04 1:11:41

Uh just go to the Gamekeeper website and click on the the the giveaway tab, and you should be able to click out there. There's also should be a link in the show notes. So be sure because we're gonna give that thing away pretty quick.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:50

Yeah, this is a shotgun suppressor, guys, along with a Rate shotgun. And so uh I mean a shotgun suppressor. Andrew, have you did you ever think we would have such? I never, ever, ever did, but I can tell you they're pretty cool. They incredible.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:05

Well, sign up, Andrew. You can win.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:06

Yeah, yeah. I've noticed some of these turkey loads are are subsonic. I'd I'd be interesting to see how quiet it is. Yeah, some of them are like a thousand feet a second, those those uh TSS loads.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:20

Uh that would be really interesting to see how quiet that is.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:24

Yes. So uh, Andrew, next time you're that rancher wouldn't even hear you shoot. Yeah, there you go. Wouldn't know you were in there with no with a shotgun. Yeah, just trying to help you out, Andrew.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:36

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:37

Well, good. Now we'll get a muffler on that helicopter. Yeah, that's true. They might hear the helicopter. You know, just there's just all ranges of helicopters. Like these stories you were talking about in Russia. I've heard stories about these old helicopters, and there's only a few people that know how to fly them, and they they don't have parts for them anymore. They're beating on the dash while it's running. What's the matter with this thing? Uh you've experienced that, Andrew. I have, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:02

That check engine light, that it does mean something.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:05

All right. Well, Andrew, I'm glad everything worked out great. Yeah, great story. Yeah, thank you for coming on and sharing.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:11

Yeah, we really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:13

Yeah. Do you besides outdoor life, is there uh an Andrew McKean uh page that somebody can go and follow you and learn?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:20

And that's probably the best one. I write for Game and Fish, Petersons, and you know, sports field a little bit everybody. So I don't know, just Google me, you'll find me somewhere.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:31

Let's get you to write some stuff for us. We need a lot of people.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:36

We need a Western flair to our whole gig.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:38

Especially a guy that's got the you know, the husband to take a helicopter. Hardcore. Yeah. Now I did say I did mention Andrew was a boxer. I don't know if that was all true or not. But I found that very interesting. Pugeless. Yeah, pugile. You know, we're just trying to make a good story here, uh, Andrew. I am now. There you go. That's right.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:56

You'll never let the truth get in the way of a good story. Yep. That's right.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:00

This has been fun. Why don't you say goodbye, Dudley? Goodbye, Dudley. Get us out of here, Richie.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:04

Thanks for tuning in to this week's episode of the Game Keeper Podcast. And be sure to tune in again. Subscribe to Game Keeper Farming for Wildlife magazine, and don't miss the Maceo Properties Fistful of Dirt podcast with my good buddy, Ronnie Cudd Strickland.