EP:437 | Florida Turkey Project Update

On this episode we are joined by frequent guest and wild turkey researcher Dr. Marcus Lashley. Fresh from a Mississippi turkey hunt, he sits down and we discuss the latest research findings from his captive poult research project at the University of Florida. The birds are 11 months old now and he and his team have learned so much. Its an interesting discussion. 

Listen, Learn, Enjoy. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_06 0:32

That's intimidating.

SPEAKER_02 0:34

Our guest has one too.

SPEAKER_06 0:35

You know, Richie went off to school to be a radio announcer. He his dream was to be the play-by-play of the Cincinnati. Oh, the Reds. Oh, no, not the Reds, uh, St. Louis Cardinals. St. Louis Cardinals.

SPEAKER_07 0:49

Not the car in the podcast with a lobby.

SPEAKER_06 0:52

This is how far I've got. So if anybody knows, I should ask the jury, because they're fans up there with the Cardinals. We need to put Ricky up there.

SPEAKER_07 1:01

That'd be a good idea.

SPEAKER_06 1:04

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:04

I think they could call it.

SPEAKER_05 1:05

I think they could call it. Uh yeah. We can give it a shot.

SPEAKER_08 1:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:08

We're um we're hoping to get Dudley some organ lessons for baseball. That would be a cool job. An organ is for the yeah, they play they play for the ball.

SPEAKER_07 1:17

Oh I was like, Oregon. Y'all aren't in Oregon.

SPEAKER_06 1:20

Oregon. I got you.

SPEAKER_07 1:21

Yeah, I got you. My bad.

SPEAKER_06 1:22

Is an organ donor? Is that what you're doing? Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 1:25

All right. Let me set the table here. We got Toxie down there. I think he's uh he's don't just go on, move on, go on. We got Lanny here again excited. Dudley's here and sitting on the couch.

SPEAKER_07 1:36

The most appropriately dressed person. Straight out of the woods. Yeah, straight out of the woods.

SPEAKER_03 1:41

Probably got ticks on him right now. I was just about to say, can we pause for a second?

SPEAKER_06 1:46

Yeah, Dr. Marcus Lashley. And we go hit the bones.

SPEAKER_02 1:51

Glad to be here, guys.

SPEAKER_06 1:52

Yeah, you left Florida, came this way, you're up here turkey hunting.

SPEAKER_02 1:56

You know what? You can you can tantalize him and tone him with every little thing and gimmick to get him in the studio live, and he's just too busy. But if you hold a set of keys out in front of him, he's here.

SPEAKER_07 2:07

Well, I saw y'all over there hanging out on Onyx together. We don't talk about all that. Okay, then I've I don't know why y'all didn't personal. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:15

That's what kind of thing. Well, I did notice I got a few pens, but they're not shareable.

SPEAKER_02 2:20

Ah, I was born in the dark, but not last night.

unknown 2:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:26

Well, how's your spring been? It's been pretty remarkable. Hey. So for lots of reasons, but my my turkey hunting started out fast. Nice. So, and uh, and I pushed the brakes really hard when I got to Mississippi. That was not my decision, that was the turkey's decision. Welcome to our world. Yeah, I have been eating humble pie for the last four days. These are some rough turkeys around here. They are, but uh yeah. Uh the first time I went out, we uh I killed a turkey, and then the second time I went out, I got all in the middle of them, and I was taking a new uh another hunter, and uh that that turkey walked away from it. You know how have y'all ever seen when you shoot, you know, to pattern your shotgun and the pellets are nearly perfect around the turkey. That's what happened on that shot, I think. Um because it you know, we couldn't figure out what happened. And uh so that one got away, and then four consecutive trips in a row after that got a turkey. Whoa. So then I was like, not not me personally, by the way. I did limit the uh other folks that I was with, uh, multiple new hunters that I was taking.

SPEAKER_02 3:46

That's the best, actually.

SPEAKER_03 3:48

I know, and I really feel strongly about that, trying to make sure that others have the opportunity, and and uh there's the gator gobblers chapter in our our county is really active, and they have a ch uh a youth hunt and a women's hunt for new hunters.

SPEAKER_05 4:05

I think I met those guys at the at the event down in Gainesville.

SPEAKER_03 4:10

Yeah, well, during our banquet, the Gator Gobblers chapter, a lot of those folks were the people that y'all are seeing in there. They were helping us and doing the work, yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:19

Good crew, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:20

They have been super helpful, but you know, we try to reciprocate a lot of their programming, my lab supports, and uh we you know, when we're available, do whatever we can to help as well. So we're at their banquets helping and and that sort of thing. And then I guide if I'm a if I'm there for their hunts. So um I was taking a a young lady the day the before actually the day that I drove to Mississippi, we went that morning and got a big Tom, and it was her first time. So that's cool. Yeah. Uh so it's just been a phenomenal season until I got to Mississippi.

SPEAKER_07 4:56

Well, I would say, look, of all the people out there doing turkey research, I would think you would be deserving of that. Well, I appreciate that. Yeah, I mean, for real. You get in what you put out. I mean, you put what do you get out what you put in. Something like that. Yeah, something like that.

SPEAKER_06 5:10

Well, I think if you stop in Sumter County on the way home, you may get your feelings right there, too. Well, I I thought about that. You gotta try.

SPEAKER_03 5:17

I mean I know, I know. And uh so one of the turkeys also, you know, I had several special experiences already, but one of the turkeys, uh, I think I had told you guys uh that one of Lovett Williams' friends who had been following along with what I was doing stopped by one day and gifted me a wing bone that was made by Lovett and signed by him. Wow. It was number 16 of his you know stuff. So like it was a special thing. And he said, uh, you know, I want you to have this, I appreciate what you're doing. You're kind of picking up where Lovett left off, and we were friends, and I just I want you to have it. And I was just blown away by that. And I took the wing bone and I said something along the lines of I'm gonna put this in a case, like nothing's gonna happen. He was like, Oh, no, no, no. You have to promise me that you're gonna kill a turkey with it. And I said, Well, I don't even know how to use it. You know, this was last February, so it was a year ago, February. And I said, I don't know how to, I've never used a suction call at all. No, no trumpet, no wingbone, I'd never even tried to use one. So he's like, Well, you're gonna have to fix that. So I told, I promised him I will become proficient. I don't care how long that takes, and when I get proficient, I will try to close the deal on that. And then uh we were cuz was actually in camp with me, and uh one of the guys that I was taking hunting thought that was a great idea, and we went out with nothing but a wingbone and brought back a turkey. Heck yeah. So that one was really special. That is special.

SPEAKER_02 6:56

So I got a text from Cuz. He's like, I said, How's Marcus? He said, He's a damn thug. He said, All these people in camp, and he left out of here with no vest, no nothing, just a wingbone and a shotgun, and he's the only one killed a turkey. Come on. So I thought that was a great story.

SPEAKER_07 7:14

Man, that is I need to have the bravery to try to do that. I just can't leave just without thinking.

SPEAKER_02 7:19

Well, the difference is you're not gonna take a year and a half to get proficient first.

SPEAKER_03 7:22

This is true. I I will, you know, I didn't practice every single day, but I I did most of it. You put your time in. Yeah. I was riding around with it, and people kept asking me what you're gonna hang around your neck.

SPEAKER_07 7:34

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:35

Everywhere I went, it was in there. I was, you know, in the faculty meetings, tucking it under my shirt right there, so that people wouldn't wonder what it was. And every time I had a spare moment, you know, just hitting it, but everybody in my lab was tired of it. But it, you know, it really was fun for me, and such a challenge and just special because uh, you know, he was an icon and I've read all his stuff and I'm working in the same place that you know, right down the road from where he did a lot of his research. So just you know, a special thing. And uh I actually had uh I also decided, you know what, I'm gonna make a wing bone.

SPEAKER_07 8:13

Ah, wow.

SPEAKER_03 8:14

So uh I have the the one of the wings from that turkey, and I was gonna make a wing. Now I've already I've made three trying to practice to see, but I kind of had this idea, I'm gonna make one and then I'm gonna just auction it off to raise money for turkeys. Maybe somebody will want it, and then they have to promise they're gonna give it to a scientist down the road. And uh if that person will go out and kill a turkey with it.

SPEAKER_02 8:40

I thought that'd be cool to I love to do it. No pun intended. I love it. There's nothing about the like the traditions that have risen to the top of the turkey hunt, no doubt.

SPEAKER_03 8:52

Yeah. Well, it just it just feels right that you, you know, maybe someday somebody will want to kill one with one I made.

SPEAKER_02 8:58

Yeah, that's cool. I think I think you and Bobby, I think you should do that.

SPEAKER_06 9:02

Well, you know, we just gave a scientist a call. Just a we sure did.

SPEAKER_07 9:06

One of your one of your uh comrades. That'd be right. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 9:10

Bronson.

SPEAKER_07 9:11

Bronson gave him a turkey card. Is that what he was just talking about?

SPEAKER_02 9:14

You know, he killed his first turkey. Somebody said I was in it was a Rio. I said, Don't apologize.

SPEAKER_03 9:19

Don't need to worry about that. Nothing wrong with a Rio.

SPEAKER_02 9:22

He came over from the dark side to the light. Oh dear guy. Rio's a hero in that.

SPEAKER_07 9:27

So did you spend time in the pen with your with your wing bone, with your buddy, with your turkeys in there?

SPEAKER_03 9:31

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That's how I kind of have that's who taught him. Yeah, yeah. I have a little bit of an unfair advantage on getting proficient with that. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 9:39

I'd love to lay up in there and listen to them.

SPEAKER_03 9:41

You know, one of the problems with it is getting building your confidence. Like, I'm almost afraid to use it in the woods.

SPEAKER_07 9:48

I am.

SPEAKER_03 9:49

And uh I had a bunch of turkeys tagged, a bunch of gobblers tagged in a place, and there were a couple of times when I knew they were close enough, I just kind of hit that thing one time and I was like, Build you confidence. Okay, I can do this, I can do this. Yeah, you know, 11 in the morning, and I'd have a time over there tagging. So that was not in a place that anybody can hunt. So just full disclosure, but pure training facility, that's it. Yeah, and then in our facility, you know, uh is somewhat enrichment because the turkeys get really curious and excited and everything, you know, and we're trying to make sure that they're they're living like turkeys, and uh we'll commonly bring calls just to you know, kind of to socialize with them, so to speak. So sometimes I bring the windbone in there and they definitely respond to it and wonder they really are curious about that one. I'm gonna do it one day. I don't know why. I'll tell you what. We we interacted with like eight different times on that day that we killed the one, and I got to watch several of them respond to it where we could see them kind of through the woods, and uh they lit up every time. Every time I hit it, I got to watch them turn white and I was like, okay, go into strut.

SPEAKER_05 11:14

That's the real deal. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:16

So they they definitely were responding to it, but I did the guy that was with me out one time said, you know, if I would have had my slate, that turkey would have been in our lap. And he he kind of looked at me like, is this guy gonna drop out of this? Because he was all in too, you know. Yeah. And I was like, I'm not getting it out. Yeah, I've just said, but you know, when you've got a turkey and you need to do something, and he's got full line of sight to you, and all you got is this wing bone. And one time he told me, he's like, You're gonna have to make a sound, but it needs to be quiet. And I said, This thing's only got one gear on it. Yes, yeah, I'm gonna try to be quiet, but it is difficult.

SPEAKER_06 11:56

Can you tell us with uh your facility down there? And we've watched the polts get raised up. Well, what's going on now?

SPEAKER_03 12:03

Yeah, so there's so many things. One for me, having that opportunity, you know, it's just a special thing. And we have just done experiment after experiment, and uh, and uh, like I was talking about a few minutes ago, it's enriching to the turkeys. Like if we bring a bunch of acorns in there, they get excited about it, you know. So some of the stuff they're really enjoying to participate in. Uh, so we just went through essentially it's not done yet, but kind of some breeding trials where the Jakes and Jenny's were, you know, selecting mates and going through that. That's going to be really interesting. But you guys had grown a whole bunch of plants for us to help us with the experiment, and we got those put in, and the plots are looking great. We planted plugs in different combinations of forbs and grasses, mimicking what the field would look like if you managed it in particular ways. So we can manage a field to have it shift to native warm season grass dominance or native forb dominance, and we could plant the field, you know, with with agricultural plants. So we have uh five ways that we might manage a field for brooding cover. To me, that's pretty special information because of how much control we have over it, and we can really fine-tune how what is the best way to manage a field to maximize brood um success in that. And wow.

SPEAKER_06 13:30

What's interesting there to me was I'm thinking about those jakes and gennies, and for a long time we heard that jakes may not be doing any of the breeding.

SPEAKER_03 13:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 13:40

And but you're from what you're telling us, uh that 10 month-old or 11-month-old is the first time we saw a copulation that were 10 months old, roughly.

SPEAKER_03 13:49

The the males were.

SPEAKER_06 13:50

Yeah. And then the the and these gennies are participating in nesting and laying eggs. Yeah. So that's interesting.

SPEAKER_03 13:57

Yeah, it's really interesting, and there's some there's some nuance there. Um so there has been some work on wild populations where they were sampling jakes and looking at when when they started sperm production. And that there was a study in Missouri and one in Texas, and they're they're old studies, you know, been decades ago. Um, but what they found is that jakes weren't producing sperm until uh uh in Missouri, I think it was early April, and it may have been late March in in Texas, but uh, you know, it was sort of uh a little bit later in the spring than the times would have been, but they did start uh producing sperm and were viable. But their testes were underdeveloped compared to an adult male. Um and then I can't remember what the the other one showed. Um but uh um I can't remember the proportion now, but most of the males by the end by the middle of May, I think it was, most of the male uh jake's were fertile, and I can't remember exactly the percentage, but it was more than more of them were reproductively mature than not. So that being said, it's also been thought for a long time that they somewhat get excluded from breeding opportunities. So that would just be because you have other males around the the times in some bird species it's been measured where the adult more mature bird might suppress the sperm production or testosterone of of other individuals. Um, but that uh has not been demonstrated directly, as to my knowledge, in turkeys. And uh, you know, in our facility, there are no adult males right now. So there's there's multiple things like what how well that equates to what's going on in the wild. It's likely that some behavioral or maybe even physiological suppression is going on in the wild, but uh it's really hard to measure that, right? So uh how much breeding they're accomplishing is still questionable, I would say, but whether or not they could is not questionable. Well, awesome.

SPEAKER_07 19:32

Yeah, and but would I mean I think I mean I think I've learned this from y'all. It's like the hen wants to go to the to the most dominant bird. I mean, would they ever select a Jake to to breed with?

SPEAKER_03 19:44

Uh the the work that's been done on that shows really clear selection for snood length and and skull cap width. Uh and that so a Jake with a big old snood's got a chance. Yeah, and we got some with some big old snoods. Huh. Like we there's one that we call Forrest. We could give y'all some video footage of him. His name's Forrest. And uh Forrest is a boss. Yeah. And Forrest has an impressive snood. Like when you're standing there with him, it's it's unbelievable. They compared him to everybody else. And uh when he was with females, we commonly in these these mate selection, we'd have multiple females and multiple males for them to choose from, and then we're watching to see who they actually do it with. And uh Forrest one. Forrest man. Yeah. That being said, it was also really interesting. I have a video clip of this. Uh Forrest struts all the time. So you we've got a hen right here who has now in her breeding posture, she's receptive, and Forrest is strutting, and he turns around where his fan is balking his vision of that hen, and another Jake that's a subordinate walked in there and got on top and went to town just that quick. And then he Forrest turned back around, and you could see him like, wait just a minute, and then he comes over there and attacks him. Yeah, but the the other one. Yeah, yeah. The other Jake did the deed before he did it. He knew he can do it. It was within 30 seconds. We watched that all happen. He need to put that fan down and look behind a little more.

SPEAKER_07 21:26

Opportunistic, don't Bobby don't say anything. He snuffed right in there. Bobby, we don't need any comments from the morning.

SPEAKER_02 21:32

Come on, let it go.

SPEAKER_03 21:34

One of the really cool things though is we, you know, we're seeing we're not seeing everything that's going on because we don't have somebody sitting there all the time, you know, while they're awake. But we also have genetic samples of everything and we know all the lineages, so we will be able to work out how often our males sneaking in uh versus the dominant male, you know, and I think it's really likely we're gonna end up with mixed broods where multiple males.

SPEAKER_02 22:01

Do you test the eggs and find all the polts?

SPEAKER_06 22:03

Wow, wow. So let me correlate this to a hunting question. Okay. So if I'm if I'm sitting somewhere So how can you make your snoot longer, right? Well, no, so if I'm sitting someplace and there's a strutting turkey and he's not coming to me, but I can see him, and all of a sudden two hens show up. How long do I have to give him to get finished with those two hens before he might suddenly become interested in me again?

SPEAKER_03 22:29

He might stick around for with them all day, but in my experience, what I usually see is the you know, right off the roost or sometime relatively early in the morning, they get with hens and they'll stick around with them till 9 30 or 10. And then you get this window where you can almost hear it, you know, when they start back up, and now the the gobbler's receptive. And for me, as a you know, when I'm thinking about hunting that 9 to 11 window, it's a pretty good time to kill a turkey.

SPEAKER_06 23:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:05

I guess I'm asking how long would it take him to if she came up there and she was receptive. Oh, that that can only be minutes.

SPEAKER_02 23:12

I mean, yeah, but that doesn't mean yeah, your opportunity is there because he said it doesn't really matter that he, you know, yeah, they may populate and stay with them.

SPEAKER_03 23:20

Yeah, just stay.

SPEAKER_02 23:21

They may they may go around with him, but I think it's like they kind of leave him and then you know how they can sneak away from them, then you won't have a chance.

SPEAKER_03 23:28

Yeah, once they start sneaking away, then that you know, a lot of times they'll get irritated and you'll hear them start gobbling, and then they become pretty receptive sometimes. Yep.

SPEAKER_05 23:38

That's a good opportunity to, you know, when you know the hens are with them, good opportunity to just take a little morning nap and wait them out. Wait them out.

SPEAKER_02 23:47

Unless you're a snore.

SPEAKER_03 23:49

Oh yeah. Well, what else is going on down there, Marcus? Well, we've got a bunch of of projects going on. Um, and for me, I'm really thinking about what are things that people can use to manage turkeys better, you know, make more turkeys. So I have three really capstone projects. One we've just talked about with this capta facility, and we're doing you know that that habitat work that I think is really going to translate well into to the way that people manage turkey populations. And we have another habitat project that's underway at the same time that's in the heart of the Osceola range that I'm really excited about. We are in the second year of that study where we're capturing hens and tagging them and following nesting and brooding success and survival. And at year four, we are gonna go in to uh one of the areas. So it's it's a 10,000 acre treatment area where we're capturing all these turkeys, and then we're gonna take 5,000 of that and intensively manage habitat to try to improve it to the fullest potential of that landscape, like maximize turkey productivity from a habitat management standpoint. Point, do everything we can think of to make it as good as possible and continue to track that population to compare it to the control area that we just leave it the same. I think that is a we a desperately needed thing to figure out what how much can we change the growth rate of a population through habitat management. And then a lot of folks immediately, what about predators? We're tracking those in that context and predation and everything, but I also have a second project that I'm participating in. I'm I'm running two sites. You guys uh through Gamekeeper Grants are are uh helping to support that project as well, where we have a similar setup, but we have it replicated across many states where we have paired areas that we will intensively remove predators in, can compare that to not removing predators at all. And that to me is another one of those experiments that we just need really good information on it, and we're doing that at a scale that is approachable for people. So if you have a few hundred acres, what can you get out of it? And I think that's the question, right? We know that predators eat turkeys, but what how can we address that at the scale that most people are operating with with trapping and and to what degree, if so?

SPEAKER_05 26:31

Man, well, where do you guys have find the time? I mean, that's just insane. I know.

SPEAKER_02 26:37

Well, it just every time you listen to someone as smart as him in a career of research like that, it makes you realize it's it is uh no matter where we are, it's a complex issue. There's not a there, I I guess there's always a priority that's like this this would help the most. I mean, right, and let's face it, if you if they never hatched, you never had a chance, that's the most important thing to start with. But then beyond that, there's so many other things to maximize stuff. And you talked about the predators, but you can't remove all predators. It seems to me that's why the habitat construction and management is so important. Right. Because you can't there's just a lot of predators that you cannot manage. You can the ground predators, yeah, to a degree, but then there's all the avian predators, which you can't. And even if you could, you couldn't, because they get you know, they migrate. And so either way, that seems to be why that habitat is so critical to get them to the stage where they're sure, you know.

SPEAKER_03 27:35

Well, and you know, people get mad at me when I say this, but I'm gonna say it anyway. Uh the reason that managing habitat works is because it decreases predation, principally. Yes. Yeah. When you're managing habitat, you are managing predators. You're you're discouraging their use of it in many cases. If you're prescribed burning, for example, you are decreasing the use of that same area by raccoons. That we have that data. It shows that. Uh what the reason improving nesting cover is effective at increasing nesting success is because it decreases predation on the nest. The reason that brood survival increases when you have good brooding cover principally is because it decreases predation of poles. So, you know, when I'm thinking about this, I'm thinking about it in that more complex manner. The predator removal is addressing one component, but the habitat is addressing all of the components. That's right. Including the predator component. And the reality is when you pair those two things, that's when you have the greatest potential for success, is when you have them together. But you know, working with these polts, it's really opened my eyes because they're in a predator and free environment, and it's still nearly it feels like it's impossible for them to make it to adulthood. Like they're they just have every reason to die that you can think of, even when there's not predators. If you don't have good poles rearing cover, they they uh have very little chance of survival.

SPEAKER_02 29:14

Yeah, they got it. How can you and the right stuff? How can you I mean, just face it, insects are talking about so how do you make sure there's lots of insects once they hit it? You know, I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 29:26

Well, the way that you do that is to have a lot of really high quality forbs available. That's not gonna find that in a closed canopy pine forest.

SPEAKER_02 29:35

That's right. That's right.

SPEAKER_03 29:37

But the reason that burning is so important, like getting you know, that pine forest, getting the some sunlight in, at least 30 or you know, 30% sunlight penetration, and then prescribe burning, you have a a herbaceous plant community response, and a lot of those plants are forbs, and we have data showing that insect production skyrockets in that scenario. And lo and behold, when you look at all the things that eat insects, all these different bird species, they all increase in abundance. We have that data showing that very clearly.

SPEAKER_02 30:12

Listening to you more and more. I might finally just I've been wanting to, but I'm making it my top priority this year is some late season burns. And uh, other than some if I can get it lined up right, some kind of strategic timber harvest stuff too. But I'm really I left stuff to do that with that.

SPEAKER_07 30:33

I you know we did one last year.

SPEAKER_02 30:35

Y'all did, but I did still. I know it was a leaf we have.

SPEAKER_03 30:38

Yeah, I mean I mean you know you know that's when we we've been working on that a lot. I started out working on the fire season stuff because I was trying to figure out a way to get people to use fire and get enough on the ground. You know, it's like we've got to open up the burn window and just think like every day's a burn day. And I still believe that. Every day's a burn day, and uh except right now when there's a burn ban.

SPEAKER_02 31:03

Right.

SPEAKER_07 31:04

Well, that's a different problem.

SPEAKER_03 31:07

Burn ban?

SPEAKER_07 31:08

Yeah, they're burn band right now.

SPEAKER_03 33:07

So obviously we have to operate within the legal bounds, and there's a reason that there's burn bands when there's burn bands, but you know, I just getting into that mindset where fire is so important to your management for the resource that if you have the opportunity to use it, you should. Yes. And that's where I started with that, and then I started working on some of that summer burning and fall burning, and you know, I've been working with with Craig Harper that you guys have had on here, and Will Goolsby and Bronson's been involved. Uh, you know, we've been doing all these different kinds of experiments, trying to understand what you gain or or lose from burning at different times. And the it is really clear that the Forb community response to particularly later in the growing season is just so so good. The structure and community composition of the plants is so good. Man, there's a lot of good reasons to to try to burn at that time.

SPEAKER_05 34:07

I've been saving all my little burn areas on on X, you know, just turning the tracker on. Um, and uh it's nice because you can go back and see the date that it happened, yeah, and then you can look at the plant response. And I've I've been doing that with my hacking squirt too.

SPEAKER_03 34:24

Yeah, that's good.

SPEAKER_05 34:25

And it's uh it's really cool to see.

SPEAKER_03 34:28

Yeah. It's really hard to manage what you don't measure. Right. So, how do you know when you have success? So think you know, taking notes like that and kind of keeping up with what you're doing and evaluating the response. And you know, I do this all the time with landowners all over the place. That you you're implementing things, but there's a lot of history on that ground that you're you you know that makes things do differently. There's soils and what you know, there's all sorts of things that are influencing the outcome of your your actions. And keeping notes like that and kind of keeping track of it allows you to adjust so that you can maximize your your objective. I think that's a you know really great thing. And that and me, I just like naturally want to do that because that's what I do for a living, you know, it's just the way that I operate, but it's so interesting and and fun to see the responses and and you know, even applying that to the animals. I mean, collecting harvest data and seeing, oh, my my toms are a couple pounds heavier now, or you know, my my bucks have put on a couple extra inches per age class. You know, those kinds of things are just fun to to watch the response of wildlife to all the hard work that you're doing.

SPEAKER_07 35:41

Listening uh to you talk about predation and and burning. Uh Tyson, I don't know if you've talked to Chris Hawley about this. Obviously, our buddy in Livington, they religious burners, I mean, who have been doing it for years. I think they had one particular area this year that was a little wet, uh, that was a super turkey area and maybe didn't burn as much. Sure enough, they found where a turkey had been ambushed just in that thicker cover. So it just a real life example of exactly what you're talking about.

SPEAKER_03 36:12

Yeah, and that you know, uh this is something that's coming. Uh we so one thing I was gonna say, uh one of you said this a few minutes ago, and I wanted to add this. We have these focus areas on these projects, but I'm an opportunist. If I'm going to go through all the effort and take all they have all the staff dedication and all the money that's going into the transmitter and all these things, we're gonna get as much as we can out of it. And uh I'm saying that because we are tracking all sorts of things, like we're looking at pathogens, you know, disease responses to the habitat management and how it's affecting the harvest rate of gobblers and all sorts of things going on all at the same time, just taking advantage of the opportunity, just like the captive population we're measuring. We've we've got experiments stacked in like sardines on that project. Like those turkeys don't get a break from it, you know, like they're moving from different, you know, you're trying to get as much as we can out of that that opportunity. And uh one of the things that that has become really obvious to us is when we're working on these different sites, some of the vital which vital rate is a problem varies quite a bit. And uh you I think last time I was on here we talked about our hen survival meta-analysis and that you know that the when you look at it well across all studies, there apparently looks like this decrease in hen survival. And then you take that, you know, I'm thinking about that, and uh go and look at our data sets across all these study sites, which we had five sites that we have hen survival on now in Florida, and it varied quite a bit across those. And uh one thing that looked like it looks like is driving that is how frequently fire and whether or not there's cattle grazing involved, where you have this really open structure. If you have frequent fire or cows or both, uh those landscapes are often really open. And in those landscapes, hen survival tends to be really high, which starts to explain why you would have so many turkeys in those kinds of landscapes. I mean, where do we talk about there's always turkeys? Yeah. And then we had one study area where we stopped the burning during the study, and hen survival dropped precipitously, and it was exactly that. We all of a sudden hens started getting eaten. So then it's you know, now I'm really thinking hard about that. That once that vegetation structure starts getting thick, you think about hens nesting in pine plantations or things that are you know really dense, or they're having to use the roads exclusively to get all around through the landscape. 100%. Though you're kind of setting that hen up to get eaten. Yeah. I mean the roads, I mean, just in between. If they can't use any of the landscape except for the roads, that's a track. Yeah. Yeah. We see that sometimes on these paper company lands. Oh yeah, yeah. And we our data showed that in this case, the the hen survival in one landscape was twice as high as the other one. And they're the studies are right down the road from each other and they're going at the same time. And one landscape, they they can't that it's not open because there's, you know, there's nothing to no disturbance. And the other one is being managed as this really wide open savanna structure, you know, with this great understory structure, and uh the hen survival is among the highest ever reported.

SPEAKER_06 39:48

So, Marcus, earlier you mentioned that uh some research that y'all had done that was surprising to you about the parasite load that y'all were finding in Turkeys. Can you speak to that a little bit?

SPEAKER_03 40:00

Yeah, that I don't have much hard data on that, but I do have some anecdotes, which I was telling you guys. We have a a student working on that right now, and he, you know, this is one of the great things about the turkey hunting community and the hunting community in general, but you know, they they really want us to have what we need and to be successful, and they've been helping us in all sorts of ways, donating and uh donating their time. And uh one thing that the turkey hunting community has done is provided us with a whole bunch of hunter-hill killed birds. So he was going all over the state of Florida collecting samples from all these birds. We've got all these, you know, had all these birds tagged everywhere, and he's sampling them, and and he's screening them for all of the different kinds of pathogens, and uh some of them are parasites, which is what I was telling you guys about, and some of them are are other things that you might need a microscope or or DNA or something to to do. So he's doing all of that. And uh, we had a committee meeting with him recently, and uh it kind of I don't usually get sick during you know a committee meeting. Like that that's unusual, but he came in, we're talking about this, and and uh I'm I'm uh partnering with a disease ecologist because that's not what I do, uh, but I'm really interested in it because it's important to turkeys. So I've I partnered with this other scientist, she's world renowned for that, like not with turkeys, but just in general disease ecology. And uh so she's his main advisor, and we're having this committee meeting, and I just wanted to know okay, you've already sampled all these birds everywhere, like what what's going on with it? And he sets a jar up on there, and it's about the size of a 16-ounce can of your choice. And uh he sets it up, it's a tube like that that's clear, and it's it's got so many worms in it, you can't see through it. They look it looks like you can't get any more in it. And he's like, That came out of one turkey. Oh wow, and uh, you know, first I was like, oh my god, now I'm taking a stomach. Yeah, like you could man, you could get on a brim bit and tear them up.

SPEAKER_07 42:19

I mean, it was just it was shocking, and then all came from their digestive tract?

SPEAKER_03 42:25

Yeah, he that was from the digestive tract.

SPEAKER_07 42:27

Was this on a control area or just wild?

SPEAKER_03 42:29

No, they would so uh we're we're sampling all over the state state, all sorts of context. Some of them are public land birds that people harvest. But it was all harvested birds, you can get clean enough to almost all of them are harvested birds, uh, but we were also kept collecting fecal samples from birds that we're tracking. So some of it we're getting like eggs out of out of their own.

SPEAKER_02 42:49

So did you see a big difference where some of them were really bad and some were not?

SPEAKER_03 42:52

There's a lot of variation, but he said sort of anecdotally, and it we'll have this quantified, but he he's kind of of the mind that they got a lot there there's a lot more going on there than we realized.

SPEAKER_07 43:07

Was that turkey smaller or have less weight than the other ones? I I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 43:13

I just know when I saw that, I was like, why are you gonna do it? It was at least a pound lighter.

SPEAKER_06 43:20

So going into next year with these birds that y'all have, they'll be two-year-old gobblers, two-year-old hens. Are you expecting any dynamic change or or or what are you looking forward to there?

SPEAKER_03 43:35

Well, one thing, you know, we've talked about it, I didn't mention it, so we we moved on to a different topic, but one thing that I'm really excited about is next year we will have adult toms. So we'll have Jake's and Tom's. So that question about suppressing out, keep Bobby out of there. Y'all, when you go in there and uh you just make a little turkey noise, we've kind of it's like in a stadium setting now where we've got them all over the place. It's not just where y'all saw them last time. You get in there in the middle of them and everybody gobbles at you. Oh wow. A crow flies over and it's like all the way around you or something else. Yeah, wow. Yeah, crickets, you were the they were they would follow you everywhere with it. Yeah, they love you. Or anything that any kind of purple berry, they will get in your pocket to get at it. Wow. Interesting. Yeah. Just purple. But you know, that that's we're doing a lot of different things. I'm really interested in the in uh you know their mate selection and what how how it works and what affects it, because I think that's important for us to understand. Uh, and that's one thing that I immediately is like, man, it's gonna be really interesting to see if any of the Jakes participate when we have dominant gobblers around, you know. Trevor Burrus, Jr. The pecking order.

SPEAKER_06 44:58

Yeah. Yeah, this is gonna sound very superficial. Um it probably is. Yeah. I mean, you guys are I I want y'all to learn all this tonight. Well, we're so we're so proud, we're counting on you guys to help out.

SPEAKER_07 45:10

That's a good way to put it.

SPEAKER_06 45:11

Do you think that you'll tease out during all this? Maybe something that you learn like this diet helps with a turkey have a thicker beard?

SPEAKER_07 45:21

Or look, my God, you give it a trophy bottle.

SPEAKER_01 45:29

We're talking about survival, bear survival of what we love trophy.

SPEAKER_06 45:34

And you're worried about the trophy part of it. I caveated this by saying it was gonna sound superficial. It was the I'm asking for a friend.

SPEAKER_03 45:42

I mean, the short short answer: we are measuring all these traits and everything on a weekly basis. So you want to know how fast spurs grow, we're gonna know that. Oh, wow. You want to know the beard characteristics? We're not counting how many hairs are in it, but if I had one extra person, we would be. You know, like we uh I am really dialed into that stuff. Yeah, yeah. It's gotta be to give you my opinion.

SPEAKER_02 46:15

Blitter mates have huge differences in spurs of beards, you know.

SPEAKER_03 46:18

Well, that well, that's what I was gonna say. If you want my opinion, no, we're not gonna figure anything out on that. Because I right now already there's so much individual variation.

SPEAKER_07 46:27

Yeah, but then I mean, in a different clutch, they can all have different fathers, I guess is the best thing.

SPEAKER_02 46:33

They could, yeah. Would you literally manage for the beard length over Polk Survival?

SPEAKER_03 46:39

No, no, not over pulp survival.

SPEAKER_07 46:40

But after Polk Survival be number one.

SPEAKER_03 46:43

So if we're gonna throw in a little tidbit, I didn't even say this earlier, but the first turkey that I killed this year, uh, it had the longest beard of anyone I've ever killed.

SPEAKER_07 46:54

All right.

SPEAKER_03 46:54

How about hitting a kazoo for that one? There we go.

SPEAKER_07 46:57

Hey, we Rob Moore. Get a rise out of Mr. Trophy over there. Yeah. Well, what how long was it?

SPEAKER_03 47:02

Right at 13 inches.

SPEAKER_06 47:03

13 inches. That's smoothly. That is that is a long beard.

SPEAKER_07 47:07

We had uh Rob Moore's son Hayden killed one with a 17 or 16 and a half inch beard.

SPEAKER_03 47:14

Here. Well, that way to bring me down. Sorry.

SPEAKER_07 47:17

Hey, what editing?

SPEAKER_06 47:21

13 is a were there many hairs in the middle.

SPEAKER_07 47:23

Congratulations to him. No, it's crazy.

SPEAKER_06 47:25

What was it a full uh full 13 inches or was it a few hairs that went to the road?

SPEAKER_03 47:29

Uh it was only three hairs. Yeah, that's that's the way this one went. But they were attached. And and he had a little pencil beard anyway. But uh yeah. I got a picture of this one. And they were, to be completely fair, they were probably a 32nd of an inch off of 13 inches. You know, it's interesting.

SPEAKER_06 47:48

The I mean yes, I do like I I do like trope. I'll go ahead and admit it. But sometimes you could like a bird in Missouri can have just a paintbrush. And then our birds down here may or may not have a big heavy beard.

SPEAKER_05 48:03

Genetics, genetics, genetics. Yeah. I'd be more interested in in bit more nuggets. Yeah. But uh, can you breed more nuggets? Yeah. I do, but I just am I'm the only one.

SPEAKER_06 48:13

If you see a one bend over and you see that beer just hanging, does that not I don't decide when I'm more of a spur guy, really.

SPEAKER_02 48:21

You can't decide, you can't tell what those are really good.

SPEAKER_03 48:23

You know, guys, what I would be more keen on is seeing what affects how many eggs the hen lays.

SPEAKER_02 48:30

A hundred percent. I won but the end result of that is how many, you said it in a great way, how many of you're hearing gobbling? I could care less. The the beard's fine either way, but not to the degree of like getting called that's asphyxiated with it or whatever. But to hear what you said, you're you're managing helping people your life because you want people to all hear them showering the woods down with gobble.

SPEAKER_07 48:55

If we can figure out something to feed them to make them gobble more, I am all about it.

SPEAKER_02 48:58

Well, I'm gonna bet you he can talk about the fact that a more nutritious Gonna be more vibrant and gobble more.

SPEAKER_03 49:05

Yeah. That would make sense. That does make sense. Oh, and there was a study from Mississippi that suggested that. Hmm. That when they after Big Mast years, that the the times seemed to be in the middle of the room.

SPEAKER_02 49:18

I remember reading that's a long time ago.

SPEAKER_03 49:19

I remember reading that. Yep. That was Hurst.

SPEAKER_02 49:22

The good old Dr. Hirst. Y'all got some interesting stuff going on down there. There's so much stuff.

SPEAKER_07 49:26

Groundbreaking stuff.

SPEAKER_02 49:28

Well, it's so exciting for people to for have him on and be able to communicate like we do with people and and hopefully affect what's going on in the whole country in mass because I keep saying the gamekeepers of the country are the ones with the keys to everything, not the government, not even Marcus, you know, or some big landowner. It's just everybody everywhere caring for somewhere, learns more, cares more, does the right thing, and that's how we change things. No one place is gonna, you know, it's different. It's a different game than say ducks and stuff, you know.

SPEAKER_03 51:55

That's where the rubber meets the road. And with our program, you know, we we I am personally, you know, feel convicted to do everything that I can, not just to find new information and use make it something that's usable, but also to develop things that are usable for people. So we've got an online course, intensive habitat management for turkeys that people can take wherever they're at. Uh, we do seminars and things all the time. I I'm doing this kind of stuff, not just doing it because I like you guys. You know, come on. Like I'm trying, you know, uh all of these opportunities to get more knowledge to more people so that they're managing turkeys better together.

SPEAKER_07 52:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 52:40

That's what we need to do to meet the goal. To to maximize things for conservation of turkeys. So, you know, I completely agree. We've got to to find answers and figure out ways to get that to people so they can use it to better things. A way to lead the charge, everybody.

SPEAKER_06 53:00

Yeah, we're really proud of you, Marcus.

SPEAKER_07 53:01

Big time.

SPEAKER_06 53:02

Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. It's gosh, Kendra Spears.

SPEAKER_02 53:06

It's very important to us, that's for sure. To think I stepped over him at the brass monkey once upon a time, didn't even know it.

SPEAKER_03 53:14

It's probably happened. How's your family? How's everything? Everything's been great, yeah. Uh my kids are growing like what ages now? Nine and four. Wow. And then uh my oldest is named Evelyn, and she would be tickled to know that I said her name on there. There you go. Hit the horn for Evelyn.

SPEAKER_02 53:32

So my granddaughter, who's the apple of my is Evelyn. We call her Evie. Evelyn Ann, name for Evie. And she killed her first turkey last year. We need a horn for that. She's a killer. She's killed Bobby. She's killed several nice trophy white tails, too.

SPEAKER_07 53:50

So you would I think her bugs are bigger than yours. They are, for sure.

SPEAKER_03 53:53

Well, you know, my Evie, uh I've been kind of going back and forth with her to see, you know, how much interest is she gonna show. And she's gone and sat in a deer stand with me a couple of times. And uh this year they come, you know, when she's 10, not this season, but the next. Um she said, I think I'm ready to do it. That's awesome. That's how you do it, Doug.

SPEAKER_02 54:15

We can tell you about that. So our second granddaughter, she's not up on it yet, you know. So nobody's gonna, you know, don't force it on you. Just like you said, the best thing to do is do you want to go just sit with me and watch? Or, you know, we can just watch. I won't shoot anything. Whatever it takes to just let them decide for themselves and experience it. That's so important.

SPEAKER_03 54:33

Yeah, I keep at I just casually ask her and it's like, You do you want to go see? And she wants to go out and see the the research turkeys all the time. That's cool, and so does my younger one. They love turkeys. And in fact, y'all will appreciate this. Uh, they have to do things for school, you know, and sometimes they'll write a note. And uh for Thanksgiving, they were talking about all the things they were thankful for, and uh they were like, I'm thankful for you know all the turkeys that my daddy gets to take care of, and I'm thinking, you know, and writing all this stuff about the turkey. So it definitely seems to be important to them.

SPEAKER_02 55:09

That's cool. That's good stuff. Yeah, yeah. So you sent me I'm looking it up, the the costume. When was that?

SPEAKER_03 55:19

So I I think I was at the convention when uh when they did that, but my girls were gonna surprise me. They were gonna surprise me when I got home. They were both wearing a turkey suit.

SPEAKER_06 55:33

Oh, that's cute. Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_03 55:36

How about silly turkeys? Yeah, that was bring your daddy to work or bring your daughter to work, Dave. And uh she wanted to wear the turkey suit to work. 100%.

SPEAKER_02 55:46

Priceless. We should put we should post that. That's so priceless.

SPEAKER_06 55:50

Well, Marcus, what else we need to uh what needs to be updated?

SPEAKER_03 55:54

Anything else? Well, we you know, I've got a bunch of stuff right on the cusp that's coming out. I think uh we mentioned one of them, the the hen survival thing. I think we're getting enough data now to know that that varies a lot, and I think some of our work is gonna show why coming up. We've got uh you know some really good stuff showing how vegetation management influences hen survival, and I think that's gonna be important stuff. Um yeah, when can we talk about that?

SPEAKER_02 56:26

Yeah, it can miss you in j in general, without you know, trying to act definitively or something. More visibility is helping it. Generally, yes.

SPEAKER_03 56:35

More fire is good.

SPEAKER_02 56:37

I think you said it looks it looks good if it's mostly open, clear, but there's clumpiness to it also where you know maybe you could be more hidden from stuff but still watching watching around you.

SPEAKER_03 56:48

Yeah, and you think about the hens living by sight, and that makes perfect sense, but when she's anchored to that nest, she needs to not be visible at the same time. So you're trying to balance those two things. And for a POLT, you know, you're thinking about it in a you know, instead of it being horizontal, now we're thinking about that being vertical, right? So the polt needs to be able to run around at the ground level, but with a canopy over top of it, you know, and I'm not talking about a canopy 40 foot or 60 foot up, I'm talking about four feet up, right?

SPEAKER_02 57:20

Right. That's why I love those briars. Those briars when you after a burn, I was trying to walk through some other day that about ripped my clothes off, but you can look on the ground, it's just clean up there.

SPEAKER_03 57:30

Yeah, they can run all around.

SPEAKER_02 57:31

But there's no way a hawk or anything else. Like razor wire above them. Exactly what it's like.

SPEAKER_05 57:36

And I you post a video about it a couple years ago, but there's a invasive that has just exploded, at least in some of my haunts, and it's that Japanese stilt grass. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 57:48

It's that stuff is thick and bad so thick. We've been seeing that.

SPEAKER_03 57:52

That's a perfect example of the structure that creates is terrible for all kinds of reasons, but they cannot traverse through.

SPEAKER_05 58:00

Yeah, they have to spend all that energy like trying to jump and fly through.

SPEAKER_03 58:04

You know, and there there was it recently a paper from entomologists on Kogon grass, and not only is it have all sorts of terrible characteristics, but they found that it has almost no insect production in it. Oh my god. You know, so it's just yeah, those those are definitely some problems to deal with. Big outbreak of that.

SPEAKER_07 58:23

It's everywhere.

SPEAKER_02 58:24

I mean, if you look at any field around here, you can see but you can't ignore it or take over one thing. I'll say it doesn't like shade. That's the only thing I've seen from a natural standpoint. The Kogan grass. Yeah, it does not like shade, you know. So once you get a closed canopy, well, you don't want much closed canopy, you know?

unknown 58:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 58:41

So, Marcus, what about Goolsby?

SPEAKER_06 58:43

How's he doing?

SPEAKER_03 58:44

He's been really good. I I hadn't talked to him in about the last two and a half weeks since March 25th or so. Opening day. Y'all need a break. That's right. Yeah. Well, we did, we actually uh we recorded several episodes because neither of us have been taking time for us. And it, you know, it we talked about this on the air last time we recorded. It really is reinvigorating to pull out and enjoy. 100% like we we have been so dedicated to trying to figure out what's going on and trying to get information to people, and that it's nice to take a step back and enjoy the resource that we've got all into this. You've got to sunrise.

SPEAKER_06 59:26

Marcus, did you congratulate him when uh they won the Auburn won the NIT? I did not.

SPEAKER_07 59:31

What's the NIT? Yeah, what is that?

SPEAKER_03 59:33

Not invited to an image. Oh, that's a little disappointed in you, Marcus. I did not, but I did you even know I did congratulate him on a big Tom that he killed the other day. How about that? It would be on the board. It was kind of funny because I sent him a text at about eight in the morning and he did not respond because it was a picture of my second bird. And he did not respond, and then he ended up telling me on the air, uh, because we we save all of our stories so that they're completely uh, you know, our reactions are live. Right. Uh so he told me on the air that he saw that and he got frustrated because he had been getting whipped by a Tom, and then he ended up getting on one after it, and he responded to me with an image of a turkey.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:21

That's a good saving.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:22

You know, it was like two hours later. But uh, yeah, so he he's been doing that and he's been taking his girl hunting. She's gotten really into turkey hunting, and uh they've been having a big time. So turning stuff. I always want to say Evie because I call mine Evie and his is Ellie. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:41

Okay. Well, good. Well, y'all are both doing such such great work. Yeah, leading the charge. Yeah, you ought to congratulate him on the NIT though, Marcus. Yeah, stand up. I think he's okay. Yeah. Bobby. Well, it's amazing how not many people seem to know about that. I don't know why.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:55

Yeah. That's the first I've heard.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:57

Yeah. What are we uh is there anything else we need to go over? Because I think uh I think you've got somewhere to be. Toxic, it looks like he's checking his phone.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:06

I'm already I'm already late for what I was early for.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:10

No. So Marcus, is there anything else we need to we need to touch base on?

SPEAKER_03 1:01:14

I I don't think so. I mean, we covered a lot of the the stuff. I'm happy to come back and tell you about some of the new stuff as soon as it comes out. Yeah, let's stay in let's stay in touch with that.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:22

Well, I'm glad to know he reported on research he's been doing this week that we train our turkeys really well over here. Oh, that is true.

SPEAKER_07 1:01:29

Y'all have been training them. They've been getting trained a long time around here.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:34

They train us more than we train them.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:35

Little Dud and I train one last weekend. I've got one last question to ask the group. And I think this is worth anybody staying with us to the end. We ought to make a point of doing doing having a really good question at the end so people listen all the way to the end. So they all are good sometimes. Laney, sometimes you're just a little bit. Oh, that's true. So, Marcus, toxic and I guess you two knuckleheads too. What about Richie? Are there things that you see? Oh, I forgot about you, Richie. I forgot you over here.

SPEAKER_08 1:02:05

I appreciate that, Bob.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:07

Are there things that you that you notice or you see toward the end of April that tell you, boy, that it's winding down? Oh, that's a great question. We're talking about it right now. Are there are there honey blooming or other are there indicators, old wives' tales that you guys see?

SPEAKER_03 1:02:23

Well, I hear a lot of different things, but I mean uh you're talking about in terms of me being in the woods. What you're like, what am I looking for?

SPEAKER_06 1:02:32

Well, are are there indicators that you see or hear, or stories that you've heard that other people do? Yeah, things are winding down. Yeah. Um I've heard like I'll throw one out.

SPEAKER_07 1:02:42

Would you let him answer the question?

SPEAKER_06 1:02:43

Well, I like to ask questions and answer them.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:49

It's a non-scientific question.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:51

So could we do it again and I'll just ask you the question. There you go. I've all I've heard some people say when you start hearing these whipper wheels, they did some edge. Yeah. Well, one thing where I grew up, crappie, big time thing. Yes. Uh when the crappie stopped biting turkey stopped.

SPEAKER_07 1:03:12

Turkey stopped goblin.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:13

Which that's probably more accurate phenologically.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:18

So what about you, Tysh?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:20

I don't know. It's it when did hens nest and when are they done breeding? You know, and I know that nests fell and they go back to get bred again, and maybe there's a little burst here and there and stuff, but I mean I it's gotta be just like the rut. People say, Oh, the rut's on, the rut's early, the rut's late. A rut is a deer-by-deer coming in estrus thing. It's not a schedule. Well, and like the 5th of December or something comes in. So, you know, how much can weather change it? As our question, I guess, is can weather change it that much?

SPEAKER_03 1:03:52

Yeah, so when you look at the chronology of a population, uh the nesting peak can vary one or two weeks within that population. Generally, you'll see it shift back and forth from year to year, and there's various things that are thought to be influencing that, but ultimately daylight length or photo period is initiating the cascade of hormones that initiates breeding, and that timing is tied to that in that population, but it does it does vary some. So, but it's you know, it's a couple week period that it varies.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:27

I think at one time Toxie told me that that something about when you start seeing honeysuckle blooming that it's usually done.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:33

All I meant by that was it's the saddest time of year because you know the season's fixed to be over. I never claimed anything like when it's researched on it.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:41

Yeah, the I would say the best indicator of when it's over is the last day of the season. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:47

There you go. Always man, right? Always definitive in his research. Rich, have you got anything to add? It sounds like though, real quick, if I can tell me if this is the the way it kicks off is not altered that much by like temperatures and all this uh photos period. Yeah, so but the the way it goes from there on could be influenced by other factors.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:09

It yeah, well um so there's there's a there's some sway in when the peak might be. Right. And uh some of that's thought to be linked to body condition, and maybe some weather is influencing that. Um and then other factors could be influencing it within the season and how uh how much of a peak there is, or how concentrated that is, and how protracted the curve is. Like if you have really high nest loss in the first one that's going to get strung out later because they're having to re-nest, and those are going to be later, right? So you know what I would expect it to be get get more protracted as you increase right the loss of the initial nesting.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:56

So a lot of the old timers have we know some that know everything, not to call any names, and it'll be like, hey, it's it's for sure, it's ten days ahead of normal this year. The dogwoods are blooming ten days early, the Easter lilies are early, and the trees budded out, the little dog ears, you know, the oak leaves are like dog ears, you know, ten days earlier. That's really not necessarily a big you know, that doesn't necessarily move things.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:22

Probably doesn't attract the plants necessarily, but it can vary some within the year. Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:28

So whether or not that's indicated by when the My only anecdotal thing this year is like I saw way more single hens in the beginning of the season that I've ever seen before. So you know that would tell you maybe it's earlier, maybe.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:40

Well, and one thing we would expect is if hens are coming in in better body condition, they would tend to be earlier. So if we we have this massive mass crop this year.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:51

Can't wait to hear around the country. You'll hear before us, but around just even if it's anecdotal, you'll hear a lot of reports about and different. And if we have this massive hatch, you'll start hearing about it. That'd be fascinating if that happens.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:03

Well, one thing I'm really excited to talk about with you guys, but I'm waiting, I've been waiting on this thing, and it just won't come out. I've been trying to let it get through peer review. Um, but the pulp per hen data, everybody needs to make a note on your calendar when June 1 in your state, they're gonna open a survey, and in most states, just the general public can can participate. But when you see turkeys, you put them into the most of them are in an app now, and it's really easy to use. In most states that I've used, it's really easy to use. But you just when you see turkeys, you put it in there, and they're not on there trying to figure out where your turkeys are, they're trying to figure out what the mat the the uh POLT recruitment looks like in the state, which is a great indicator of turkey productivity. So everybody needs to mark that on your calendar to participate in that. We have gotten all that data, and I have a person who has gone through that data and analyzed various things, and we've got some really cool stuff on what is influencing turkey productivity, even at that larger scale. And one of the things I think is gonna blow you guys away, but I'm not gonna say a little bit of this published because I want it to be vetted by the other scientists before I go start talking about it.

SPEAKER_07 1:08:24

Okay, that's just be that way.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:28

You guys, you're gonna like it, I promise you.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:30

All right. Oh, that's good. Well, Marcus, we always enjoy talking to you. Yeah, one good. 100%. Yeah, welcome up here anytime. And you always show up in camera, which just makes us like I mean, it makes me feel like I mean. Well, Landy was expecting me to have a turkey.

SPEAKER_07 1:08:44

Yeah, I was jumped up. I'm like, where is he at? He almost last time I did have a one. Yeah, that's right. I thought he was gonna throw another one on the table. Yeah, he did. I should have just walked in with it over my shoulder. I'd have cheered, I promise you.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:56

Uh well, look, congrats on the wing bone story and that's good.

SPEAKER_07 1:09:01

And just all the good things you can get. Yeah, we do.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:04

Um turkey stamps. Oh, yeah. They're available.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:09

I saw you guys just posted that. Yeah. Some of that, some of that'll work is back way back down to funds game. That's exactly what we're doing.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:16

Yeah, that's been guys, that's been tremendous help for us, helping us to support all these projects.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:22

Yeah, so you go to go to mallshiok.com and uh it you should be able to find it.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:29

Click on the people aren't old like you, they can they can just find stuff. That's right. And you don't have to tell them about a backslash.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:35

It's on the net. You can find it there.

SPEAKER_07 1:09:37

So uh our Dudley's plants, they're thriving well. Oh, yeah. All right.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:41

They're looking good.

SPEAKER_07 1:09:42

Good deal.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:43

And there's gonna be polts in them in about two weeks. The first first ones that go into your guys' treatments are two weeks. Sweet. Excellent. I'll send I'll send you a video of one under a big we'd love to see that sunflower or something.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:57

You'd love to see forest too. The cutest thing ever was Rob filmed the little beady polts strutting. Get us get us one of you can do that with your phone. Do they still do it all the time?

SPEAKER_03 1:10:08

All the time.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:08

And actually in the woods or something.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:12

For folks, yeah, if you watch our social media, we have a video about to come out from you reminded me of it. We have a polt or two polts, one of them is a hen, and one of them is a little tom. Oh, wow. But they're only like five days old. And the Tom is strutting around her, and she lays down and kind of nestles in, and he struts all around her. And then we have fast forward to now, the same thing. And the same Jake and and Jenny are doing the same thing, and then he actually copulates, and then she laid eggs. Oh, wow. So we basically from uh basically I was like, they've been in love since they were five days ago. They've been dating high school sweetheart. He's been working on this relationship since they were little.

SPEAKER_07 1:10:59

Yeah. Love at first sight. How about that?

SPEAKER_06 1:11:01

Pre-K. That's good stuff.

SPEAKER_08 1:11:03

That is good stuff.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:04

Uh yeah, send us a little video of Forrest, too. I'd like to see what he looks like. Oh Newt Forrest.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:09

I think you'd like to hear what he sounds like. Rip it. I sent you a gobble of him. It's real.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:16

For real. It's that hard pan. I got sent one today. Osceola has the best gobble.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:22

They're just rattled to I got sent one today of him, and it sound I would have been on him thinking he's a Tom.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:29

We'll send it and we'll get Richie. Richie, wake up up there. We'll get Richie to add it to this so everybody can hear it. I've got it on my phone right here. We can make a sound file. Richie got up at 2 30 yesterday and I think it's caught up with it. In the afternoon? I'm still I'm still rolling by.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:46

Richie's a warrior, Bobby. He is. Yes, he is. I'm not. I can't. When I get up early. It's not gonna be a productive day.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:56

No.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:57

No, but sometimes I'm a late morning turkey.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:01

All right, guys. This has been fun. Marcus, thank you.

SPEAKER_07 1:12:04

Yeah, thanks for stopping in. Yeah, I appreciate what you're doing out there with a resource. Thank you for sure. Goodbye, Dudley. Goodbye, Dudley. Get us out of here, Richie.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:11

Thanks for tuning in to this week's episode of the Gamekeeper Podcast. And be sure to tune in again. Subscribe to Game Keeper Farming for Wildlife Magazine. And don't miss the Mafia Properties Fistful Dirt Podcast with my good buddy, Ronnie Coder.