{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":9.576,"endTime":9.843,"body":"Well,"},{"startTime":9.843,"endTime":13.747,"body":"hello with gratitude Matt listeners,"},{"startTime":9.843,"endTime":13.747,"body":"my name is Bill Moran and I'm Matt's older"},{"startTime":13.747,"endTime":17.15,"body":"brother and today I will be your host"},{"startTime":13.747,"endTime":17.15,"body":"for our show with gratitude."},{"startTime":17.15,"endTime":19.085,"body":"Matt With gratitude."},{"startTime":19.085,"endTime":19.352,"body":"Matt."},{"startTime":19.352,"endTime":22.655,"body":"As a place people can come to find"},{"startTime":19.352,"endTime":22.655,"body":"the courage to be grateful."},{"startTime":22.922,"endTime":25.592,"body":"Regardless of how powerful this storm is."},{"startTime":25.592,"endTime":28.261,"body":"Matt started the blog with gratitude"},{"startTime":25.592,"endTime":28.261,"body":"Matt dot"},{"startTime":28.261,"endTime":31.297,"body":"com to track his cancer journey."},{"startTime":31.564,"endTime":34.734,"body":"Our goal with gratitude,"},{"startTime":31.564,"endTime":34.734,"body":"Matt, is to reach and inspire"},{"startTime":35.001,"endTime":39.139,"body":"more people and help them use gratitude"},{"startTime":35.001,"endTime":39.139,"body":"on a regular basis."},{"startTime":39.572,"endTime":42.876,"body":"As many of you know,"},{"startTime":39.572,"endTime":42.876,"body":"Matt passed away on August 20th."},{"startTime":43.643,"endTime":48.114,"body":"Matt's wife, Mary, and the entire family"},{"startTime":43.643,"endTime":48.114,"body":"want to continue to help people"},{"startTime":48.648,"endTime":51.951,"body":"through this podcast"},{"startTime":48.648,"endTime":51.951,"body":"to find the courage to be grateful."},{"startTime":52.652,"endTime":55.789,"body":"Please know that Matt"},{"startTime":52.652,"endTime":55.789,"body":"and the entire family"},{"startTime":55.789,"endTime":60.96,"body":"appreciated all your love, prayers,"},{"startTime":55.789,"endTime":60.96,"body":"support and generosity during his journey."},{"startTime":61.561,"endTime":65.665,"body":"His wife, Mary,"},{"startTime":61.561,"endTime":65.665,"body":"and our entire family are so grateful"},{"startTime":65.832,"endTime":68.835,"body":"and blessed"},{"startTime":65.832,"endTime":68.835,"body":"to have your continued support."},{"startTime":68.935,"endTime":71.938,"body":"I am humbled and honored to be here today."},{"startTime":72.172,"endTime":75.809,"body":"Today, I'm"},{"startTime":72.172,"endTime":75.809,"body":"super excited to introduce our guest, Dr."},{"startTime":75.809,"endTime":77.01,"body":"Chris Kerr."},{"startTime":77.01,"endTime":80.013,"body":"Dr. Kerr has earned both an M.D."},{"startTime":80.113,"endTime":82.449,"body":"and a Ph.D. in neurobiology."},{"startTime":82.449,"endTime":86.486,"body":"He is the chief executive"},{"startTime":82.449,"endTime":86.486,"body":"officer and chief medical officer"},{"startTime":86.486,"endTime":90.356,"body":"for hospice"},{"startTime":86.486,"endTime":90.356,"body":"and Palliative Care in Buffalo, New York."},{"startTime":90.79,"endTime":94.06,"body":"Dr. Kerr realized"},{"startTime":90.79,"endTime":94.06,"body":"that many of his patients in hospice"},{"startTime":94.594,"endTime":98.131,"body":"had extraordinary experiences"},{"startTime":94.594,"endTime":98.131,"body":"as death approached."},{"startTime":98.498,"endTime":101.468,"body":"As a result,"},{"startTime":98.498,"endTime":101.468,"body":"he designed studies that would tabulate"},{"startTime":101.468,"endTime":104.471,"body":"these experiences in a meaningful way."},{"startTime":104.571,"endTime":107.273,"body":"These experiences are enormous gifts"},{"startTime":108.575,"endTime":111.578,"body":"to the dying and those of us left behind."},{"startTime":111.578,"endTime":115.949,"body":"They impact the bereaved"},{"startTime":111.578,"endTime":115.949,"body":"because how people leave us matters."},{"startTime":116.583,"endTime":120.854,"body":"How we grieve is impacted"},{"startTime":116.583,"endTime":120.854,"body":"by how we experienced their deaths."},{"startTime":121.454,"endTime":124.891,"body":"Dr. Kerr has shared his findings"},{"startTime":121.454,"endTime":124.891,"body":"and the importance"},{"startTime":124.891,"endTime":127.894,"body":"of these end of life"},{"startTime":124.891,"endTime":127.894,"body":"experiences to the world."},{"startTime":128.161,"endTime":133.8,"body":"Most notably in an award winning"},{"startTime":128.161,"endTime":133.8,"body":"TEDx talk titled I See Dead People Dreams"},{"startTime":133.8,"endTime":138.271,"body":"and Visions of the Dying, he authored"},{"startTime":133.8,"endTime":138.271,"body":"a book titled Death Is But a Dream"},{"startTime":138.905,"endTime":141.908,"body":"Finding Hope and Meaning at Life's End,"},{"startTime":142.542,"endTime":145.545,"body":"End and released a movie of the same name."},{"startTime":145.745,"endTime":147.847,"body":"In addition, in addition, Dr."},{"startTime":147.847,"endTime":152.185,"body":"Kerr continues his work, his research,"},{"startTime":147.847,"endTime":152.185,"body":"and is helping his patients"},{"startTime":152.185,"endTime":155.188,"body":"and their families"},{"startTime":152.185,"endTime":155.188,"body":"realize a more meaningful"},{"startTime":155.488,"endTime":158.992,"body":"and personal person,"},{"startTime":155.488,"endTime":158.992,"body":"purposeful end of life experience."},{"startTime":159.325,"endTime":160.727,"body":"I first became aware of Dr."},{"startTime":160.727,"endTime":164.731,"body":"Kerr through Matt, his wife"},{"startTime":160.727,"endTime":164.731,"body":"Mary, and Mary's brother, Dr."},{"startTime":164.731,"endTime":165.932,"body":"Ed Cosgrove."},{"startTime":165.932,"endTime":170.937,"body":"Matt spent his final days"},{"startTime":165.932,"endTime":170.937,"body":"under the careful and loving care of Dr."},{"startTime":170.937,"endTime":173.806,"body":"Kerr in hospice of Buffalo."},{"startTime":173.806,"endTime":174.674,"body":"When I asked Dr."},{"startTime":174.674,"endTime":178.444,"body":"Curfew would be a guest on with Gratitude"},{"startTime":174.674,"endTime":178.444,"body":"Matt, he jumped at the opportunity."},{"startTime":178.745,"endTime":179.512,"body":"Welcome, Dr."},{"startTime":179.512,"endTime":181.514,"body":"Kerr, and thank you for joining us today."},{"startTime":181.514,"endTime":182.148,"body":"Thank you."},{"startTime":182.148,"endTime":184.651,"body":"Thank you. Many years"},{"startTime":182.148,"endTime":184.651,"body":"for the kind introduction."},{"startTime":184.651,"endTime":185.285,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":186.252,"endTime":187.153,"body":"Well, it's"},{"startTime":187.153,"endTime":189.956,"body":"I could have gone on and on,"},{"startTime":187.153,"endTime":189.956,"body":"but we wanted to"},{"startTime":189.956,"endTime":193.993,"body":"we wanted to get to the importance"},{"startTime":189.956,"endTime":193.993,"body":"of your research and your findings."},{"startTime":193.993,"endTime":196.996,"body":"And we're I'm just so grateful"},{"startTime":193.993,"endTime":196.996,"body":"to have you here today."},{"startTime":197.864,"endTime":199.499,"body":"So, Dr. Kerr, I'm"},{"startTime":197.864,"endTime":199.499,"body":"going to kind of lead in."},{"startTime":199.499,"endTime":200.633,"body":"We'll start at the beginning."},{"startTime":200.633,"endTime":203.97,"body":"So you devoted your career, your energy"},{"startTime":203.97,"endTime":206.973,"body":"and your research"},{"startTime":203.97,"endTime":206.973,"body":"to end of life experiences."},{"startTime":208.074,"endTime":210.777,"body":"I know it's a it's a long answer, but"},{"startTime":210.777,"endTime":213.78,"body":"how did that come about?"},{"startTime":213.98,"endTime":216.983,"body":"Unintentionally and by accident."},{"startTime":217.65,"endTime":219.519,"body":"I was"},{"startTime":219.519,"endTime":222.522,"body":"I had no interest in this area of medicine"},{"startTime":219.519,"endTime":222.522,"body":"at all."},{"startTime":223.389,"endTime":225.491,"body":"I actually was a cardiology"},{"startTime":225.491,"endTime":228.494,"body":"fellow and I worked in the ER"},{"startTime":225.491,"endTime":228.494,"body":"with Ed Cosgrove"},{"startTime":229.062,"endTime":231.631,"body":"for many years,"},{"startTime":229.062,"endTime":231.631,"body":"and I was just moonlighting"},{"startTime":231.631,"endTime":234.601,"body":"in, came to hospice,"},{"startTime":234.634,"endTime":237.136,"body":"completely uneducated and uninformed"},{"startTime":237.136,"endTime":240.24,"body":"on what it meant to be caring for people"},{"startTime":237.136,"endTime":240.24,"body":"at the end of their life."},{"startTime":240.24,"endTime":243.243,"body":"Because in training"},{"startTime":240.24,"endTime":243.243,"body":"we typically signed off on these people"},{"startTime":243.243,"endTime":244.877,"body":"because there was"},{"startTime":243.243,"endTime":244.877,"body":"nothing more to do to them."},{"startTime":246.646,"endTime":247.547,"body":"And I was just"},{"startTime":247.547,"endTime":250.383,"body":"struck immediately that there was so much"},{"startTime":247.547,"endTime":250.383,"body":"I didn't understand."},{"startTime":250.383,"endTime":255.021,"body":"There's the dying we obviously observe"},{"startTime":250.383,"endTime":255.021,"body":"a physical decline and lessening."},{"startTime":255.722,"endTime":257.957,"body":"But the"},{"startTime":255.722,"endTime":257.957,"body":"but that there was a subjective side,"},{"startTime":257.957,"endTime":261.894,"body":"there was the experiential side"},{"startTime":257.957,"endTime":261.894,"body":"that the patient was experiencing."},{"startTime":262.161,"endTime":265.632,"body":"And it was really paradoxical"},{"startTime":262.161,"endTime":265.632,"body":"to the physical side."},{"startTime":265.665,"endTime":269.102,"body":"The they were actually"},{"startTime":265.665,"endTime":269.102,"body":"a very rich, vibrant and very much"},{"startTime":269.102,"endTime":272.105,"body":"alive in their and"},{"startTime":272.538,"endTime":274.44,"body":"the work grew out of a frustration"},{"startTime":274.44,"endTime":277.443,"body":"in trying to teach it to medical students"},{"startTime":278.011,"endTime":280.113,"body":"because we live in an evidence based time"},{"startTime":280.113,"endTime":283.249,"body":"that this that you know, there's"},{"startTime":280.113,"endTime":283.249,"body":"nothing on this kind of thing."},{"startTime":283.383,"endTime":284.284,"body":"And of course,"},{"startTime":284.284,"endTime":288.054,"body":"the irony is it's been always been written"},{"startTime":284.284,"endTime":288.054,"body":"about through time and across cultures,"},{"startTime":288.421,"endTime":291.524,"body":"but it wasn't in medical language,"},{"startTime":288.421,"endTime":291.524,"body":"you know, nor our language."},{"startTime":291.791,"endTime":293.426,"body":"So that's why we did the studies."},{"startTime":294.56,"endTime":297.563,"body":"So so kind of to give our listeners"},{"startTime":297.563,"endTime":302.935,"body":"a little bit of a glimpse to your"},{"startTime":297.563,"endTime":302.935,"body":"you're a medical doctor, you have a Ph.D."},{"startTime":302.969,"endTime":305.371,"body":"in neurobiology,"},{"startTime":305.371,"endTime":309.108,"body":"but then you, through your writings and"},{"startTime":305.371,"endTime":309.108,"body":"your research, you came to the conclusion"},{"startTime":309.108,"endTime":312.912,"body":"that dying is more of a human experience"},{"startTime":309.108,"endTime":312.912,"body":"than a medical experience."},{"startTime":313.212,"endTime":315.281,"body":"Can you kind of expand on that? Yeah."},{"startTime":315.281,"endTime":318.284,"body":"So what's happened over time is"},{"startTime":318.651,"endTime":321.087,"body":"medicine gets more advanced."},{"startTime":321.087,"endTime":323.356,"body":"We become ever more enamored"},{"startTime":323.356,"endTime":326.359,"body":"by the science of medicine,"},{"startTime":323.356,"endTime":326.359,"body":"but not it's art."},{"startTime":326.993,"endTime":329.062,"body":"And dying is really something"},{"startTime":329.062,"endTime":333.599,"body":"that we were we're sort of death"},{"startTime":329.062,"endTime":333.599,"body":"denied in death defying"},{"startTime":334.133,"endTime":337.537,"body":"and somehow dying,"},{"startTime":334.133,"endTime":337.537,"body":"which really is a closing of a life"},{"startTime":337.537,"endTime":341.374,"body":"and inevitable"},{"startTime":337.537,"endTime":341.374,"body":"has become this medical problem to solve."},{"startTime":341.974,"endTime":345.945,"body":"And that's why the majority of Americans"},{"startTime":341.974,"endTime":345.945,"body":"don't want to die in the hospital"},{"startTime":345.945,"endTime":348.948,"body":"but end up dying in the hospital"},{"startTime":345.945,"endTime":348.948,"body":"because that's where they're recognized."},{"startTime":349.382,"endTime":353.486,"body":"There's this sense that we can always like"},{"startTime":349.382,"endTime":353.486,"body":"we're consumers of health care"},{"startTime":353.486,"endTime":357.357,"body":"and there's always something"},{"startTime":353.486,"endTime":357.357,"body":"we can do to prevent dying."},{"startTime":357.657,"endTime":361.561,"body":"And we treat it as organ failure"},{"startTime":357.657,"endTime":361.561,"body":"like failing parts."},{"startTime":361.928,"endTime":366.399,"body":"Not again, a holistic view of it,"},{"startTime":361.928,"endTime":366.399,"body":"which is the closing of a life."},{"startTime":368.101,"endTime":371.771,"body":"So you were you in your writings"},{"startTime":372.004,"endTime":375.675,"body":"and your research, you used the phrase"},{"startTime":372.004,"endTime":375.675,"body":"end of life experiences."},{"startTime":375.675,"endTime":381.114,"body":"And in kind of for the listeners,"},{"startTime":375.675,"endTime":381.114,"body":"what what does all that entail"},{"startTime":381.114,"endTime":386.986,"body":"and what at hospice"},{"startTime":381.114,"endTime":386.986,"body":"do you offer to help that journey?"},{"startTime":387.353,"endTime":391.391,"body":"Yeah, So end of life"},{"startTime":387.353,"endTime":391.391,"body":"experiences, it's really tricky known."},{"startTime":391.391,"endTime":394.827,"body":"Quite sure we use that to describe"},{"startTime":391.391,"endTime":394.827,"body":"the subjective"},{"startTime":394.827,"endTime":397.83,"body":"inner processes of dying"},{"startTime":397.997,"endTime":398.831,"body":"each other."},{"startTime":398.831,"endTime":400.666,"body":"Words used to the closest."},{"startTime":400.666,"endTime":404.237,"body":"That language we have as kind of dreams"},{"startTime":400.666,"endTime":404.237,"body":"or visions or that sort of thing."},{"startTime":404.67,"endTime":408.408,"body":"The reason why it's sticky for us"},{"startTime":404.67,"endTime":408.408,"body":"is that if you talk to people"},{"startTime":408.408,"endTime":411.644,"body":"about their adamant,"},{"startTime":408.408,"endTime":411.644,"body":"this isn't a dream, right?"},{"startTime":411.911,"endTime":415.748,"body":"That I don't they say I don't remember"},{"startTime":411.911,"endTime":415.748,"body":"my dreams or this was very different."},{"startTime":416.082,"endTime":418.951,"body":"These aren't tend not to be fantastical or"},{"startTime":418.951,"endTime":421.921,"body":"metaphorical or require analysis."},{"startTime":421.954,"endTime":424.791,"body":"They're based on real life events."},{"startTime":424.791,"endTime":429.562,"body":"And when we measure realism on a"},{"startTime":424.791,"endTime":429.562,"body":"1 to 10 scale, they tend to be a ten."},{"startTime":429.929,"endTime":431.964,"body":"So they see a lived experience."},{"startTime":431.964,"endTime":435.301,"body":"But that's the term"},{"startTime":431.964,"endTime":435.301,"body":"we use is end of life experiences."},{"startTime":436.269,"endTime":438.371,"body":"And you kind of touched on this"},{"startTime":438.371,"endTime":443.042,"body":"in a comment earlier, but in Western"},{"startTime":438.371,"endTime":443.042,"body":"and the Western medical world,"},{"startTime":443.609,"endTime":446.612,"body":"we don't really maybe talk about this"},{"startTime":443.609,"endTime":446.612,"body":"as much."},{"startTime":446.712,"endTime":451.684,"body":"We talk more about the weather than maybe"},{"startTime":446.712,"endTime":451.684,"body":"we do about end of life experiences."},{"startTime":451.684,"endTime":455.855,"body":"And maybe you can kind of explain"},{"startTime":451.684,"endTime":455.855,"body":"a little bit of the why behind that."},{"startTime":456.556,"endTime":459.559,"body":"Yeah, I think it's"},{"startTime":459.926,"endTime":462.795,"body":"you know, it's become easier"},{"startTime":459.926,"endTime":462.795,"body":"to live longer, but higher."},{"startTime":462.795,"endTime":464.564,"body":"Higher to harder to die."},{"startTime":464.564,"endTime":469.502,"body":"Well, and, you know,"},{"startTime":464.564,"endTime":469.502,"body":"we view it through this medical paradigm."},{"startTime":469.802,"endTime":472.839,"body":"And when you do that,"},{"startTime":469.802,"endTime":472.839,"body":"you focus on body parts."},{"startTime":473.239,"endTime":477.51,"body":"And that wasn't true"},{"startTime":473.239,"endTime":477.51,"body":"even a generation ago."},{"startTime":478.044,"endTime":481.481,"body":"I mean, we grew up and we would say,"},{"startTime":478.044,"endTime":481.481,"body":"you know, how did grandma die?"},{"startTime":481.481,"endTime":482.849,"body":"She was she died of old age,"},{"startTime":483.883,"endTime":484.35,"body":"right?"},{"startTime":484.35,"endTime":486.185,"body":"You were allowed to die of old age."},{"startTime":486.185,"endTime":489.188,"body":"Now you can you know,"},{"startTime":486.185,"endTime":489.188,"body":"you're going to have ten diagnosis"},{"startTime":489.188,"endTime":492.992,"body":"rate noses"},{"startTime":489.188,"endTime":492.992,"body":"and more likely die in the hospital."},{"startTime":493.292,"endTime":499.699,"body":"So it's sad"},{"startTime":493.292,"endTime":499.699,"body":"because dying is a reflective experience."},{"startTime":499.699,"endTime":503.669,"body":"It's a different vantage point"},{"startTime":499.699,"endTime":503.669,"body":"you naturally look back on, but you"},{"startTime":504.837,"endTime":506.806,"body":"you know, you stop caring about your taxes"},{"startTime":506.806,"endTime":510.643,"body":"or your oil change and you start to focus"},{"startTime":506.806,"endTime":510.643,"body":"on the things that matter."},{"startTime":510.643,"endTime":514.514,"body":"So it's not surprising then,"},{"startTime":510.643,"endTime":514.514,"body":"that there are"},{"startTime":514.514,"endTime":517.517,"body":"these inner experiences"},{"startTime":514.514,"endTime":517.517,"body":"that are very, very, very different"},{"startTime":518.484,"endTime":522.355,"body":"and that that that's what the patient"},{"startTime":518.484,"endTime":522.355,"body":"the patient doesn't experience."},{"startTime":522.355,"endTime":523.623,"body":"Liver failure."},{"startTime":523.623,"endTime":525.958,"body":"They don't experience kidney failure."},{"startTime":525.958,"endTime":528.961,"body":"They experience life at its end."},{"startTime":529.328,"endTime":532.198,"body":"And there's a richness inside to that."},{"startTime":532.198,"endTime":533.933,"body":"You know,"},{"startTime":532.198,"endTime":533.933,"body":"we did this really interesting study"},{"startTime":534.901,"endTime":535.568,"body":"where we looked"},{"startTime":535.568,"endTime":539.338,"body":"at dying as a as a"},{"startTime":535.568,"endTime":539.338,"body":"as a as a traumatic experience."},{"startTime":539.338,"endTime":541.641,"body":"And this idea of post-traumatic growth,"},{"startTime":541.641,"endTime":544.911,"body":"like the idea you could go to war"},{"startTime":541.641,"endTime":544.911,"body":"and yes, it's a negative experience,"},{"startTime":545.177,"endTime":548.614,"body":"but there are positive attributes"},{"startTime":545.177,"endTime":548.614,"body":"like friendships, for example."},{"startTime":549.515,"endTime":552.051,"body":"And when we did that in dying,"},{"startTime":549.515,"endTime":552.051,"body":"what we found was fascinating."},{"startTime":552.051,"endTime":553.853,"body":"It's actually measurable."},{"startTime":553.853,"endTime":557.423,"body":"Yes, they're physically declining,"},{"startTime":553.853,"endTime":557.423,"body":"but paradoxically,"},{"startTime":557.423,"endTime":560.526,"body":"they're emotionally, psychologically,"},{"startTime":557.423,"endTime":560.526,"body":"spiritually, very much alive."},{"startTime":560.86,"endTime":564.23,"body":"And people don't stop learning"},{"startTime":560.86,"endTime":564.23,"body":"and adapting right"},{"startTime":564.23,"endTime":566.532,"body":"until the very last days of life."},{"startTime":566.532,"endTime":569.402,"body":"So the take home basically"},{"startTime":569.402,"endTime":572.972,"body":"is the dying patient doesn't stop living"},{"startTime":569.402,"endTime":572.972,"body":"because they're die."},{"startTime":573.406,"endTime":578.778,"body":"And there's actually a profound amount"},{"startTime":573.406,"endTime":578.778,"body":"of living to do that's deeply meaningful."},{"startTime":579.245,"endTime":583.082,"body":"You think of your own situation,"},{"startTime":579.245,"endTime":583.082,"body":"what it did to strength and draw"},{"startTime":583.649,"endTime":587.52,"body":"the inner dynamics of your relationships"},{"startTime":583.649,"endTime":587.52,"body":"right closer"},{"startTime":587.52,"endTime":591.857,"body":"and more meaningful"},{"startTime":587.52,"endTime":591.857,"body":"and very profound in important ways."},{"startTime":592.291,"endTime":594.36,"body":"And that's just part of this."},{"startTime":594.36,"endTime":597.997,"body":"And if we had one aim in this whole effort"},{"startTime":598.397,"endTime":601.133,"body":"is to democratize the process"},{"startTime":601.133,"endTime":604.57,"body":"and reclaim it as a humanizing process"},{"startTime":605.071,"endTime":607.673,"body":"and one in which the patient"},{"startTime":605.071,"endTime":607.673,"body":"should always have a say."},{"startTime":608.941,"endTime":611.51,"body":"That's a gift that you give the patient"},{"startTime":611.51,"endTime":614.947,"body":"and that care that you're giving is"},{"startTime":611.51,"endTime":614.947,"body":"is well, it's beautiful."},{"startTime":615.715,"endTime":618.351,"body":"It's so powerful."},{"startTime":618.351,"endTime":621.253,"body":"I'm going to shift a little bit over"},{"startTime":618.351,"endTime":621.253,"body":"and we're going to get,"},{"startTime":621.253,"endTime":625.324,"body":"you know, this is the 73rd podcast."},{"startTime":625.324,"endTime":628.327,"body":"Matt did 71 of these,"},{"startTime":628.327,"endTime":631.864,"body":"and I'm kind of taking it over"},{"startTime":628.327,"endTime":631.864,"body":"and carrying the torch here"},{"startTime":631.864,"endTime":634.133,"body":"for for the family."},{"startTime":634.133,"endTime":638.804,"body":"But one of the things that Matt did in the"},{"startTime":634.133,"endTime":638.804,"body":"a lot of his episodes was he"},{"startTime":638.804,"endTime":643.743,"body":"he got real, he got vulnerable"},{"startTime":638.804,"endTime":643.743,"body":"and he was able to kind of shed"},{"startTime":643.876,"endTime":647.58,"body":"a little bit of light of his journey"},{"startTime":643.876,"endTime":647.58,"body":"and how that might help others."},{"startTime":647.58,"endTime":650.583,"body":"But the one thing that"},{"startTime":650.95,"endTime":654.453,"body":"that I and maybe you can help"},{"startTime":650.95,"endTime":654.453,"body":"because you cared for and your team"},{"startTime":654.453,"endTime":658.324,"body":"cared for Matt on his final days,"},{"startTime":654.453,"endTime":658.324,"body":"but Matt owned his journey."},{"startTime":658.324,"endTime":661.327,"body":"He owned his health,"},{"startTime":658.324,"endTime":661.327,"body":"he owned his diagnosis."},{"startTime":661.327,"endTime":666.799,"body":"And why is that important"},{"startTime":661.327,"endTime":666.799,"body":"for both the patient and the family"},{"startTime":666.799,"endTime":670.036,"body":"when they're going through these"},{"startTime":666.799,"endTime":670.036,"body":"end of life experiences?"},{"startTime":671.07,"endTime":672.471,"body":"Oh, yeah, it's wonderful."},{"startTime":672.471,"endTime":675.441,"body":"I think"},{"startTime":675.441,"endTime":678.177,"body":"advanced illness in itself"},{"startTime":678.177,"endTime":680.846,"body":"and I can speak from experience"},{"startTime":680.846,"endTime":683.849,"body":"dying in particular"},{"startTime":684.316,"endTime":687.553,"body":"is there is a loss,"},{"startTime":688.02,"endTime":691.023,"body":"there's a surrendering of loss"},{"startTime":688.02,"endTime":691.023,"body":"of ultimate control"},{"startTime":691.657,"endTime":695.761,"body":"over the thing that matters most,"},{"startTime":691.657,"endTime":695.761,"body":"which is the trajectory of your existence."},{"startTime":695.761,"endTime":697.363,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":697.363,"endTime":700.7,"body":"And there's a risk in that."},{"startTime":700.7,"endTime":704.437,"body":"In that one, you can be victimized"},{"startTime":700.7,"endTime":704.437,"body":"to your circumstance."},{"startTime":705.538,"endTime":707.807,"body":"You can be totally defined."},{"startTime":707.807,"endTime":710.242,"body":"And we see this by illness."},{"startTime":710.242,"endTime":712.978,"body":"So I'm no longer a human right."},{"startTime":712.978,"endTime":718.084,"body":"I'm not seen in the totality"},{"startTime":712.978,"endTime":718.084,"body":"and dementia quality of my existence."},{"startTime":718.084,"endTime":721.921,"body":"I'm seen as as a medical problem."},{"startTime":723.289,"endTime":726.292,"body":"So any time anyone"},{"startTime":726.358,"endTime":729.361,"body":"takes the stage in their own story"},{"startTime":729.995,"endTime":731.697,"body":"and give voice to something"},{"startTime":731.697,"endTime":734.7,"body":"larger, and I think what's"},{"startTime":735.301,"endTime":739.338,"body":"unbelievable is"},{"startTime":735.301,"endTime":739.338,"body":"how often people change perspective."},{"startTime":739.338,"endTime":741.674,"body":"They they they don't lose hope."},{"startTime":741.674,"endTime":742.475,"body":"Hope changes."},{"startTime":742.475,"endTime":747.913,"body":"So hope changes"},{"startTime":742.475,"endTime":747.913,"body":"from cure to hope for others."},{"startTime":749.081,"endTime":750.516,"body":"And it's a"},{"startTime":750.516,"endTime":755.354,"body":"wonderful aspect in the human story"},{"startTime":750.516,"endTime":755.354,"body":"that actually people do"},{"startTime":755.354,"endTime":759.158,"body":"come to some understanding"},{"startTime":755.354,"endTime":759.158,"body":"of where they are generally,"},{"startTime":760.359,"endTime":764.93,"body":"but what they don't stop caring,"},{"startTime":760.359,"endTime":764.93,"body":"they still care is just for other people."},{"startTime":765.064,"endTime":767.733,"body":"How are they going to be"},{"startTime":765.064,"endTime":767.733,"body":"and how are they doing?"},{"startTime":767.733,"endTime":770.736,"body":"And so there's this idea"},{"startTime":767.733,"endTime":770.736,"body":"that they want to give"},{"startTime":770.87,"endTime":773.873,"body":"and give and give of themselves."},{"startTime":775.107,"endTime":778.21,"body":"So this podcast series,"},{"startTime":775.107,"endTime":778.21,"body":"for example, is an example of that."},{"startTime":779.478,"endTime":782.815,"body":"You got somebody struggling"},{"startTime":779.478,"endTime":782.815,"body":"to get through a day"},{"startTime":783.115,"endTime":786.986,"body":"experiencing physical symptoms"},{"startTime":783.115,"endTime":786.986,"body":"that you and I can't really relate to"},{"startTime":786.986,"endTime":790.723,"body":"or say we even come close"},{"startTime":786.986,"endTime":790.723,"body":"to understanding yet what matters most."},{"startTime":790.723,"endTime":793.726,"body":"Perhaps is that he"},{"startTime":793.759,"endTime":796.762,"body":"he was giving of himself to others."},{"startTime":796.962,"endTime":801.333,"body":"And that's the most redeeming quality"},{"startTime":796.962,"endTime":801.333,"body":"in our struggle to remain humane."},{"startTime":802.968,"endTime":805.971,"body":"Is that is that we continue"},{"startTime":806.806,"endTime":810.976,"body":"to to to bring meaning"},{"startTime":806.806,"endTime":810.976,"body":"and love and value for for other people."},{"startTime":811.21,"endTime":814.213,"body":"And that sickness doesn't limit that,"},{"startTime":814.513,"endTime":817.516,"body":"but actually can enhance it"},{"startTime":818.05,"endTime":819.585,"body":"is powerful"},{"startTime":819.585,"endTime":822.588,"body":"and is returns their control to you."},{"startTime":823.455,"endTime":826.358,"body":"Um so it makes sense to me."},{"startTime":826.358,"endTime":827.76,"body":"Well that that's beautiful."},{"startTime":827.76,"endTime":832.932,"body":"And I'm so happy that Matt"},{"startTime":827.76,"endTime":832.932,"body":"was in your care and in your team's care."},{"startTime":832.932,"endTime":834.2,"body":"It was incredible."},{"startTime":834.2,"endTime":838.304,"body":"And I do have to confess,"},{"startTime":834.2,"endTime":838.304,"body":"so you know, when Matt,"},{"startTime":839.371,"endTime":842.374,"body":"he called me and he said he was"},{"startTime":842.842,"endTime":845.077,"body":"he said he was going to hospice"},{"startTime":845.077,"endTime":849.715,"body":"and we exchanged you know,"},{"startTime":845.077,"endTime":849.715,"body":"we told each other we loved each other."},{"startTime":849.715,"endTime":853.185,"body":"And and I really struggled with"},{"startTime":853.953,"endTime":856.255,"body":"whether with his mortality."},{"startTime":856.255,"endTime":859.558,"body":"I mean, you know, up until that point,"},{"startTime":856.255,"endTime":859.558,"body":"you know,"},{"startTime":859.892,"endTime":864.83,"body":"we knew the diagnosis was tough,"},{"startTime":859.892,"endTime":864.83,"body":"but we also knew who Matt was."},{"startTime":865.297,"endTime":869.735,"body":"And I looked at you know, he's my younger"},{"startTime":865.297,"endTime":869.735,"body":"brother, He's athletic, he's handsome,"},{"startTime":869.735,"endTime":873.973,"body":"he's a devoted father, he's a loving"},{"startTime":869.735,"endTime":873.973,"body":"husband, He's a faithful Catholic."},{"startTime":873.973,"endTime":876.141,"body":"And he's going to be called to heaven."},{"startTime":876.141,"endTime":878.911,"body":"And I was conflicted, honestly,"},{"startTime":876.141,"endTime":878.911,"body":"on whether to drive"},{"startTime":878.911,"endTime":881.914,"body":"from Cincinnati to Buffalo to be with him."},{"startTime":881.914,"endTime":884.283,"body":"I'd just been up there two weeks earlier"},{"startTime":884.283,"endTime":888.587,"body":"and I tried to keep myself busy,"},{"startTime":884.283,"endTime":888.587,"body":"but I knew I needed to be with Matt."},{"startTime":888.587,"endTime":889.788,"body":"I was"},{"startTime":889.788,"endTime":892.992,"body":"I was there when Mom and Dad brought him"},{"startTime":889.788,"endTime":892.992,"body":"home from the hospital, and I knew"},{"startTime":892.992,"endTime":897.463,"body":"I had to be at his bedside when when,"},{"startTime":892.992,"endTime":897.463,"body":"when I was going to walk him to heaven."},{"startTime":898.43,"endTime":899.265,"body":"And fortunately, my"},{"startTime":899.265,"endTime":902.268,"body":"family"},{"startTime":899.265,"endTime":902.268,"body":"told me that I needed to get up there and"},{"startTime":902.334,"endTime":905.838,"body":"and to use Matt's word, I'm grateful"},{"startTime":902.334,"endTime":905.838,"body":"I did."},{"startTime":906.639,"endTime":909.575,"body":"When I arrived at Matt's bedside,"},{"startTime":906.639,"endTime":909.575,"body":"I gave him a kiss."},{"startTime":909.575,"endTime":910.409,"body":"I gave him a hug."},{"startTime":910.409,"endTime":913.412,"body":"I told him I loved him and"},{"startTime":914.013,"endTime":917.049,"body":"and I gave him a few more kisses"},{"startTime":914.013,"endTime":917.049,"body":"and I gave him a few more hugs."},{"startTime":917.449,"endTime":920.452,"body":"And I said,"},{"startTime":917.449,"endTime":920.452,"body":"those are from each of his family members."},{"startTime":921.787,"endTime":924.657,"body":"And Matt responded with a beautiful smile."},{"startTime":924.657,"endTime":929.695,"body":"And it's really it's hard to describe"},{"startTime":924.657,"endTime":929.695,"body":"how beautiful that smile was."},{"startTime":930.629,"endTime":933.632,"body":"But to use your words, that was a gift."},{"startTime":933.732,"endTime":936.502,"body":"And that's a gift that I get to carry"},{"startTime":933.732,"endTime":936.502,"body":"and I get to share."},{"startTime":936.502,"endTime":941.073,"body":"I'm sharing it here today,"},{"startTime":936.502,"endTime":941.073,"body":"and I know others have lost loved ones"},{"startTime":941.073,"endTime":943.509,"body":"and they've experienced"},{"startTime":941.073,"endTime":943.509,"body":"very similar experiences"},{"startTime":945.044,"endTime":946.211,"body":"like this."},{"startTime":946.211,"endTime":949.682,"body":"But what how important is that"},{"startTime":949.682,"endTime":953.986,"body":"experience at the bedside with a loved one"},{"startTime":953.986,"endTime":957.79,"body":"who is, you know, at their end of life?"},{"startTime":958.29,"endTime":961.293,"body":"Doctor, how"},{"startTime":961.46,"endTime":965.431,"body":"I think what you said at the beginning,"},{"startTime":961.46,"endTime":965.431,"body":"how people leave us matters."},{"startTime":965.431,"endTime":966.498,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":966.498,"endTime":969.635,"body":"And you can either"},{"startTime":970.703,"endTime":973.706,"body":"it can be defined as empty"},{"startTime":974.54,"endTime":978.143,"body":"without any redeeming"},{"startTime":974.54,"endTime":978.143,"body":"qualities, dehumanizing,"},{"startTime":979.211,"endTime":982.982,"body":"void of any spiritual reality of love."},{"startTime":984.583,"endTime":988.988,"body":"Or it can be this remarkable,"},{"startTime":989.521,"endTime":993.993,"body":"incomparable experience"},{"startTime":989.521,"endTime":993.993,"body":"where you feel something better."},{"startTime":995.427,"endTime":999.298,"body":"And that's what he"},{"startTime":995.427,"endTime":999.298,"body":"you made sure you shared with him."},{"startTime":999.665,"endTime":1002.668,"body":"You're it's interesting"},{"startTime":999.665,"endTime":1002.668,"body":"when you described the story,"},{"startTime":1002.735,"endTime":1006.572,"body":"you didn't focus on the physicality"},{"startTime":1002.735,"endTime":1006.572,"body":"of his appearance."},{"startTime":1006.939,"endTime":1009.375,"body":"You didn't focus"},{"startTime":1009.375,"endTime":1013.012,"body":"on the sadness"},{"startTime":1009.375,"endTime":1013.012,"body":"of seeing him transformed physically,"},{"startTime":1013.445,"endTime":1017.783,"body":"what he may have been suffering"},{"startTime":1013.445,"endTime":1017.783,"body":"with a roller cough trying to breathe."},{"startTime":1018.25,"endTime":1021.053,"body":"You focused about what was inside."},{"startTime":1021.987,"endTime":1022.488,"body":"You know, it's"},{"startTime":1022.488,"endTime":1026.225,"body":"interesting"},{"startTime":1022.488,"endTime":1026.225,"body":"that this is largely focused on gratitude."},{"startTime":1026.525,"endTime":1030.562,"body":"We did this large scale study"},{"startTime":1026.525,"endTime":1030.562,"body":"that we haven't published for."},{"startTime":1030.562,"endTime":1032.865,"body":"We're just finishing to write up"},{"startTime":1032.865,"endTime":1035.834,"body":"because caregiving"},{"startTime":1032.865,"endTime":1035.834,"body":"so often described in negative terms."},{"startTime":1035.834,"endTime":1039.304,"body":"If you looked at the books on caregiving"},{"startTime":1035.834,"endTime":1039.304,"body":"and you found out we were going to be"},{"startTime":1039.304,"endTime":1044.043,"body":"when you'd go to a bridge and jump,"},{"startTime":1039.304,"endTime":1044.043,"body":"you know, it's all measured in terms of,"},{"startTime":1044.443,"endTime":1048.781,"body":"you know, the vernacular of our time,"},{"startTime":1044.443,"endTime":1048.781,"body":"your life balance and all that other."},{"startTime":1049.415,"endTime":1052.418,"body":"It's just and that."},{"startTime":1052.951,"endTime":1056.455,"body":"And the funniest thing is, though,"},{"startTime":1052.951,"endTime":1056.455,"body":"if you actually talk to caregivers,"},{"startTime":1057.222,"endTime":1058.824,"body":"what they will tell you"},{"startTime":1058.824,"endTime":1061.827,"body":"essentially is that that was the best,"},{"startTime":1058.824,"endTime":1061.827,"body":"hardest thing I've ever done."},{"startTime":1062.561,"endTime":1066.198,"body":"And so we did this study"},{"startTime":1062.561,"endTime":1066.198,"body":"and we used there's measures of gratitude."},{"startTime":1066.665,"endTime":1069.168,"body":"And what we found was"},{"startTime":1070.335,"endTime":1073.338,"body":"enormous gratefulness"},{"startTime":1073.539,"endTime":1076.809,"body":"that and the weird part was the harder"},{"startTime":1076.809,"endTime":1080.312,"body":"the lifting during the caregiving,"},{"startTime":1076.809,"endTime":1080.312,"body":"the more gratitude."},{"startTime":1081.046,"endTime":1084.049,"body":"So it's inversely"},{"startTime":1081.046,"endTime":1084.049,"body":"proportional to struggle."},{"startTime":1084.716,"endTime":1087.786,"body":"So this was in the care team"},{"startTime":1084.716,"endTime":1087.786,"body":"and the family members."},{"startTime":1087.786,"endTime":1090.789,"body":"Their family,"},{"startTime":1087.786,"endTime":1090.789,"body":"the fear, the caregivers of the patient."},{"startTime":1091.99,"endTime":1095.027,"body":"The important thing is caregiving"},{"startTime":1091.99,"endTime":1095.027,"body":"is such a more social,"},{"startTime":1095.027,"endTime":1098.03,"body":"larger experience that's felt"},{"startTime":1098.497,"endTime":1102.501,"body":"not at a transactional level"},{"startTime":1098.497,"endTime":1102.501,"body":"of cleaning, feeding,"},{"startTime":1103.035,"endTime":1106.004,"body":"but it's felt at a deep"},{"startTime":1106.004,"endTime":1108.841,"body":"spiritual and psychological level."},{"startTime":1108.841,"endTime":1111.143,"body":"It's almost like it's a vocation, really."},{"startTime":1111.143,"endTime":1111.71,"body":"In adult."},{"startTime":1111.71,"endTime":1115.614,"body":"You said something when you touched on it"},{"startTime":1111.71,"endTime":1115.614,"body":"in an odd way."},{"startTime":1115.614,"endTime":1118.784,"body":"So what Caribbean does is"},{"startTime":1115.614,"endTime":1118.784,"body":"it's you've touched on a couple of ways."},{"startTime":1119.251,"endTime":1122.154,"body":"It stops you from running on the rat."},{"startTime":1122.154,"endTime":1125.457,"body":"We're all of your life, your attorney."},{"startTime":1125.457,"endTime":1128.36,"body":"You've got obligations and you said it."},{"startTime":1128.36,"endTime":1132.197,"body":"And oh, I stopped"},{"startTime":1128.36,"endTime":1132.197,"body":"and I went to Buffalo, right?"},{"startTime":1132.831,"endTime":1134.733,"body":"So you stop your life"},{"startTime":1134.733,"endTime":1137.102,"body":"and then the next thing you said is"},{"startTime":1137.102,"endTime":1140.439,"body":"you brought reverence and remembrance"},{"startTime":1137.102,"endTime":1140.439,"body":"to your family members"},{"startTime":1140.439,"endTime":1144.009,"body":"that you remember who we who,"},{"startTime":1140.439,"endTime":1144.009,"body":"who at some level you're connected."},{"startTime":1144.543,"endTime":1146.245,"body":"It's defining."},{"startTime":1146.245,"endTime":1150.549,"body":"And you shared their gestures of love"},{"startTime":1146.245,"endTime":1150.549,"body":"in a kiss and a hug to him."},{"startTime":1151.15,"endTime":1153.619,"body":"So a caregiving does is"},{"startTime":1154.653,"endTime":1155.721,"body":"is not elective."},{"startTime":1155.721,"endTime":1160.526,"body":"It forces you to pause and find meaning"},{"startTime":1160.526,"endTime":1165.197,"body":"and worth and redemption and love"},{"startTime":1160.526,"endTime":1165.197,"body":"and what truly matters for being here."},{"startTime":1166.532,"endTime":1169.535,"body":"And it has to come to surface"},{"startTime":1166.532,"endTime":1169.535,"body":"and be expressed."},{"startTime":1170.269,"endTime":1173.639,"body":"And you did those things"},{"startTime":1170.269,"endTime":1173.639,"body":"so you're busy going along the day, boom,"},{"startTime":1173.639,"endTime":1177.209,"body":"you hit the brakes,"},{"startTime":1173.639,"endTime":1177.209,"body":"you turn your car, come up here,"},{"startTime":1178.744,"endTime":1181.713,"body":"and you you went from being busy in life"},{"startTime":1181.713,"endTime":1184.816,"body":"to focusing on"},{"startTime":1181.713,"endTime":1184.816,"body":"what matters from your life."},{"startTime":1184.816,"endTime":1186.251,"body":"And, you know, I was beautiful."},{"startTime":1186.251,"endTime":1190.789,"body":"You described him from seeing him coming"},{"startTime":1186.251,"endTime":1190.789,"body":"from the hospital to see him at the end."},{"startTime":1191.089,"endTime":1196.428,"body":"So you you you see it in its"},{"startTime":1191.089,"endTime":1196.428,"body":"panoramic form and it's even richer."},{"startTime":1197.129,"endTime":1199.264,"body":"Well, that's gratitude."},{"startTime":1199.264,"endTime":1201.9,"body":"Well, thank you. In in in there."},{"startTime":1201.9,"endTime":1203.502,"body":"I was just the vessel."},{"startTime":1203.502,"endTime":1208.473,"body":"I was the lucky one to be there"},{"startTime":1203.502,"endTime":1208.473,"body":"and and the family was to marry."},{"startTime":1208.473,"endTime":1211.043,"body":"And my sisters and everyone was."},{"startTime":1211.043,"endTime":1214.112,"body":"So it was like to use your words."},{"startTime":1214.112,"endTime":1217.249,"body":"It was life to affirming,"},{"startTime":1214.112,"endTime":1217.249,"body":"not life denying."},{"startTime":1217.249,"endTime":1219.685,"body":"So that that was it was."},{"startTime":1219.685,"endTime":1220.886,"body":"It was. It was a beautiful."},{"startTime":1221.92,"endTime":1224.69,"body":"You said it more eloquently"},{"startTime":1221.92,"endTime":1224.69,"body":"when you talked about your caregivers,"},{"startTime":1224.69,"endTime":1230.162,"body":"but I you know, I described it"},{"startTime":1224.69,"endTime":1230.162,"body":"as beautiful and sad all the same time."},{"startTime":1230.162,"endTime":1233.031,"body":"So, yeah."},{"startTime":1233.031,"endTime":1236.568,"body":"So one of the one of the things"},{"startTime":1236.568,"endTime":1239.571,"body":"that I've noticed in your"},{"startTime":1236.568,"endTime":1239.571,"body":"and noticed in your book"},{"startTime":1239.771,"endTime":1244.743,"body":"and especially in the powerful,"},{"startTime":1239.771,"endTime":1244.743,"body":"and I encourage and we in the show"},{"startTime":1244.743,"endTime":1249.448,"body":"notes, we're going to provide links"},{"startTime":1244.743,"endTime":1249.448,"body":"so that the listeners can really"},{"startTime":1250.549,"endTime":1253.552,"body":"dive into your book,"},{"startTime":1253.585,"endTime":1256.989,"body":"your, your, your TED talk and and really"},{"startTime":1256.989,"endTime":1260.792,"body":"I think the interviews that you had with"},{"startTime":1256.989,"endTime":1260.792,"body":"the patients were so powerful."},{"startTime":1261.293,"endTime":1264.763,"body":"One of the things that Matt"},{"startTime":1261.293,"endTime":1264.763,"body":"always tried to remind his listeners"},{"startTime":1266.031,"endTime":1267.933,"body":"was to be present."},{"startTime":1267.933,"endTime":1270.802,"body":"And I noticed that message"},{"startTime":1270.802,"endTime":1273.772,"body":"In your research and in your studies,"},{"startTime":1274.406,"endTime":1277.476,"body":"how was that important"},{"startTime":1274.406,"endTime":1277.476,"body":"and what have you observed in that"},{"startTime":1279.011,"endTime":1281.246,"body":"with being present?"},{"startTime":1281.246,"endTime":1285.751,"body":"I it it's hard work"},{"startTime":1287.319,"endTime":1290.322,"body":"in getting to the point where"},{"startTime":1291.456,"endTime":1294.092,"body":"you can work through the grief,"},{"startTime":1294.092,"endTime":1297.329,"body":"whether experiencing or anticipated,"},{"startTime":1297.863,"endTime":1300.832,"body":"the sense of loss, the injustices,"},{"startTime":1301.7,"endTime":1303.502,"body":"saying goodbye."},{"startTime":1303.502,"endTime":1308.74,"body":"The only way that happens"},{"startTime":1303.502,"endTime":1308.74,"body":"is if you're open to seeing something"},{"startTime":1310.008,"endTime":1311.61,"body":"that has more value."},{"startTime":1311.61,"endTime":1314.613,"body":"And as you said, affirms"},{"startTime":1311.61,"endTime":1314.613,"body":"rather than denies life."},{"startTime":1315.347,"endTime":1318.517,"body":"And that only happens by being present."},{"startTime":1318.984,"endTime":1323.889,"body":"That's and I think it's so easy"},{"startTime":1318.984,"endTime":1323.889,"body":"to distract ourselves."},{"startTime":1324.022,"endTime":1326.992,"body":"I do it every day"},{"startTime":1327.059,"endTime":1330.062,"body":"with with the truly irrelevant"},{"startTime":1331.33,"endTime":1335.3,"body":"and and be unpleasant and unmindful."},{"startTime":1336.268,"endTime":1339.171,"body":"But I think, you know, it really"},{"startTime":1339.171,"endTime":1343.575,"body":"that's what brought me here was that"},{"startTime":1339.171,"endTime":1343.575,"body":"when I was removed from the hospital"},{"startTime":1343.575,"endTime":1349.348,"body":"and the allure of all the technology"},{"startTime":1343.575,"endTime":1349.348,"body":"and the acts of doing and a full team"},{"startTime":1349.715,"endTime":1354.786,"body":"and you're just compelled, it's"},{"startTime":1349.715,"endTime":1354.786,"body":"just you patient and you're at the bedside"},{"startTime":1355.02,"endTime":1359.091,"body":"and the at no tricks"},{"startTime":1355.02,"endTime":1359.091,"body":"and you can't role play."},{"startTime":1359.658,"endTime":1362.694,"body":"That's so you're forced to brain,"},{"startTime":1364.129,"endTime":1366.998,"body":"you're forced to being present"},{"startTime":1366.998,"endTime":1370.001,"body":"and all you have is presence."},{"startTime":1370.602,"endTime":1373.205,"body":"And sometimes that doesn't even require"},{"startTime":1370.602,"endTime":1373.205,"body":"language."},{"startTime":1373.205,"endTime":1377.843,"body":"It's just being present,"},{"startTime":1373.205,"endTime":1377.843,"body":"has it learning how to be a comforter"},{"startTime":1379.244,"endTime":1383.081,"body":"and that what you have to give"},{"startTime":1379.244,"endTime":1383.081,"body":"is just which God"},{"startTime":1383.248,"endTime":1388.186,"body":"and your shared past"},{"startTime":1383.248,"endTime":1388.186,"body":"like you did with his brother."},{"startTime":1388.186,"endTime":1391.189,"body":"So it's all that. Yeah."},{"startTime":1391.523,"endTime":1393.358,"body":"So that in that's"},{"startTime":1393.358,"endTime":1397.295,"body":"that's beautiful and and and so powerful"},{"startTime":1393.358,"endTime":1397.295,"body":"and I hope the listeners"},{"startTime":1397.295,"endTime":1400.866,"body":"get the impact of that"},{"startTime":1397.295,"endTime":1400.866,"body":"because that that they're that that is"},{"startTime":1401.933,"endTime":1404.236,"body":"that is amazing"},{"startTime":1404.236,"endTime":1407.239,"body":"the findings that you made and you have"},{"startTime":1407.606,"endTime":1410.342,"body":"you know you've you've lived it"},{"startTime":1407.606,"endTime":1410.342,"body":"you were real"},{"startTime":1410.342,"endTime":1413.445,"body":"you did it"},{"startTime":1410.342,"endTime":1413.445,"body":"you were present for those patients."},{"startTime":1413.445,"endTime":1415.881,"body":"And and"},{"startTime":1415.881,"endTime":1418.583,"body":"one of the things that you know,"},{"startTime":1418.583,"endTime":1421.586,"body":"we've talked about this"},{"startTime":1421.62,"endTime":1423.054,"body":"end of life experience and"},{"startTime":1423.054,"endTime":1426.992,"body":"and the effect on on the dying"},{"startTime":1423.054,"endTime":1426.992,"body":"and then also on the family members."},{"startTime":1426.992,"endTime":1431.296,"body":"But how does that carry"},{"startTime":1426.992,"endTime":1431.296,"body":"over to the grieving process and what,"},{"startTime":1431.83,"endTime":1435.267,"body":"you know, kind of getting back again,"},{"startTime":1431.83,"endTime":1435.267,"body":"we've mentioned it twice already."},{"startTime":1436.568,"endTime":1439.571,"body":"You know, how you leave us matters"},{"startTime":1439.571,"endTime":1442.374,"body":"in how can that help what you're doing?"},{"startTime":1442.374,"endTime":1445.911,"body":"How can in what you've observed,"},{"startTime":1442.374,"endTime":1445.911,"body":"how can that help those that are grieving?"},{"startTime":1446.812,"endTime":1448.18,"body":"Oh, it helps immensely."},{"startTime":1448.18,"endTime":1451.917,"body":"And we've we've published studies on this"},{"startTime":1448.18,"endTime":1451.917,"body":"with about 750"},{"startTime":1452.484,"endTime":1454.619,"body":"bereaved family or loved ones."},{"startTime":1454.619,"endTime":1457.255,"body":"And as you said, how people leave matters."},{"startTime":1457.255,"endTime":1462.327,"body":"And you can view death in terms"},{"startTime":1457.255,"endTime":1462.327,"body":"its finality and the end point"},{"startTime":1462.894,"endTime":1467.332,"body":"or you can see in it the opportunity"},{"startTime":1462.894,"endTime":1467.332,"body":"to connect with something larger."},{"startTime":1467.699,"endTime":1471.87,"body":"So, you know, the clearest example"},{"startTime":1467.699,"endTime":1471.87,"body":"that we've seen many times"},{"startTime":1472.17,"endTime":1476.741,"body":"and you've got a couple who may have lost"},{"startTime":1476.775,"endTime":1479.778,"body":"a child at or shortly after birth,"},{"startTime":1480.212,"endTime":1483.215,"body":"and they've been together"},{"startTime":1480.212,"endTime":1483.215,"body":"for 60 plus years."},{"startTime":1483.281,"endTime":1486.518,"body":"And at the end of the life,"},{"startTime":1483.281,"endTime":1486.518,"body":"the one person is"},{"startTime":1487.118,"endTime":1491.323,"body":"actually feels the presence"},{"startTime":1487.118,"endTime":1491.323,"body":"or talking to this lost child."},{"startTime":1492.858,"endTime":1494.025,"body":"And that's the best example"},{"startTime":1494.025,"endTime":1499.164,"body":"of converting, dying to empty"},{"startTime":1494.025,"endTime":1499.164,"body":"and without redeeming qualities"},{"startTime":1499.164,"endTime":1503.368,"body":"to something that actually again"},{"startTime":1499.164,"endTime":1503.368,"body":"validates having lived and mattered."},{"startTime":1503.835,"endTime":1508.073,"body":"And what it also does"},{"startTime":1503.835,"endTime":1508.073,"body":"is it connects usually it connects"},{"startTime":1508.573,"endTime":1511.343,"body":"the person"},{"startTime":1508.573,"endTime":1511.343,"body":"to the bedside, to the experience,"},{"startTime":1511.343,"endTime":1515.38,"body":"so that what you end up feeling"},{"startTime":1511.343,"endTime":1515.38,"body":"is there, that there isn't."},{"startTime":1516.648,"endTime":1518.617,"body":"There's this connectivity across lives,"},{"startTime":1518.617,"endTime":1521.62,"body":"whether they're living or not."},{"startTime":1521.987,"endTime":1526.224,"body":"And so it gives a version"},{"startTime":1521.987,"endTime":1526.224,"body":"of a better story."},{"startTime":1526.791,"endTime":1530.929,"body":"And when we looked at bereavement"},{"startTime":1526.791,"endTime":1530.929,"body":"and there's tools to measure"},{"startTime":1531.196,"endTime":1534.533,"body":"bereavement, know how do you remember,"},{"startTime":1531.196,"endTime":1534.533,"body":"how do you get through?"},{"startTime":1534.533,"endTime":1537.536,"body":"How do you have a still the relationship?"},{"startTime":1537.536,"endTime":1538.904,"body":"How do you cope?"},{"startTime":1538.904,"endTime":1541.907,"body":"People who experience these things"},{"startTime":1541.94,"endTime":1544.342,"body":"absolutely"},{"startTime":1544.342,"endTime":1547.479,"body":"changes how you process loss"},{"startTime":1548.947,"endTime":1552.05,"body":"and also how you have reverence."},{"startTime":1553.818,"endTime":1558.523,"body":"It's the other videos of the family"},{"startTime":1553.818,"endTime":1558.523,"body":"I think are as compelled knowing"},{"startTime":1559.524,"endTime":1562.16,"body":"as they are"},{"startTime":1562.16,"endTime":1564.162,"body":"the the the patient."},{"startTime":1564.162,"endTime":1568.133,"body":"I know if you saw the one I can"},{"startTime":1564.162,"endTime":1568.133,"body":"I am bringing this up to you."},{"startTime":1568.133,"endTime":1571.136,"body":"I was just looking at it with somebody"},{"startTime":1571.87,"endTime":1574.873,"body":"else named Sue,"},{"startTime":1571.87,"endTime":1574.873,"body":"whose mum was very demented."},{"startTime":1575.106,"endTime":1577.943,"body":"But as she's getting closer to death,"},{"startTime":1575.106,"endTime":1577.943,"body":"she's waking up"},{"startTime":1577.943,"endTime":1581.58,"body":"and she's sharing these wonderful stories"},{"startTime":1577.943,"endTime":1581.58,"body":"because every time she's closed her"},{"startTime":1581.58,"endTime":1584.583,"body":"eyes, she's with her deceased husband."},{"startTime":1584.849,"endTime":1589.154,"body":"And so she's actually living a better,"},{"startTime":1584.849,"endTime":1589.154,"body":"richer, happier existence,"},{"startTime":1589.554,"endTime":1592.891,"body":"a kind of present"},{"startTime":1589.554,"endTime":1592.891,"body":"in and connected in love."},{"startTime":1593.525,"endTime":1596.027,"body":"And at the end of her life,"},{"startTime":1596.027,"endTime":1598.93,"body":"she tries to escape the facility."},{"startTime":1598.93,"endTime":1602.367,"body":"And what she's doing is"},{"startTime":1598.93,"endTime":1602.367,"body":"she's reliving her wedding day."},{"startTime":1602.901,"endTime":1605.57,"body":"So she's got to get to Niagara Falls."},{"startTime":1605.57,"endTime":1607.806,"body":"So when you'd expect"},{"startTime":1607.806,"endTime":1612.21,"body":"escalating psychogenic distress as one's"},{"startTime":1607.806,"endTime":1612.21,"body":"life's closing,"},{"startTime":1612.477,"endTime":1615.48,"body":"she's actually reclaiming lost love"},{"startTime":1616.147,"endTime":1618.316,"body":"and it's just amazing."},{"startTime":1618.316,"endTime":1622.587,"body":"So when you hear the daughter"},{"startTime":1618.316,"endTime":1622.587,"body":"talk and she talked about"},{"startTime":1623.722,"endTime":1626.691,"body":"because you ask this"},{"startTime":1623.722,"endTime":1626.691,"body":"question about the caregiver in the breed,"},{"startTime":1626.791,"endTime":1630.862,"body":"she actually talked about how nice"},{"startTime":1626.791,"endTime":1630.862,"body":"it was to go visit her"},{"startTime":1630.862,"endTime":1633.832,"body":"mom towards the end of her life, because"},{"startTime":1633.965,"endTime":1637.969,"body":"spiritually, psychologically,"},{"startTime":1633.965,"endTime":1637.969,"body":"she was just in this wonderful place"},{"startTime":1637.969,"endTime":1640.972,"body":"and she had these great stories"},{"startTime":1637.969,"endTime":1640.972,"body":"to share about her husband."},{"startTime":1641.573,"endTime":1644.576,"body":"So well, that that certainly will help us"},{"startTime":1644.576,"endTime":1647.746,"body":"all as we experience"},{"startTime":1644.576,"endTime":1647.746,"body":"this in our own lives."},{"startTime":1649.481,"endTime":1652.617,"body":"So, you know, I don't want to take"},{"startTime":1649.481,"endTime":1652.617,"body":"too much more of your time in it,"},{"startTime":1652.651,"endTime":1655.954,"body":"because I know you're you've got"},{"startTime":1652.651,"endTime":1655.954,"body":"some great work that you're working on."},{"startTime":1655.954,"endTime":1658.957,"body":"But if you could kind of share"},{"startTime":1655.954,"endTime":1658.957,"body":"to the listeners"},{"startTime":1660.525,"endTime":1663.495,"body":"some of the most the exciting"},{"startTime":1663.495,"endTime":1667.198,"body":"ventures that you're working on"},{"startTime":1663.495,"endTime":1667.198,"body":"and kind of where they can learn"},{"startTime":1667.198,"endTime":1670.502,"body":"more about, you know, what you're doing"},{"startTime":1667.198,"endTime":1670.502,"body":"and just kind of get."},{"startTime":1670.568,"endTime":1672.003,"body":"But give us a glimpse into"},{"startTime":1673.004,"endTime":1675.44,"body":"the exciting"},{"startTime":1673.004,"endTime":1675.44,"body":"news that you might have coming down."},{"startTime":1675.44,"endTime":1679.31,"body":"The I think the most important thing for"},{"startTime":1675.44,"endTime":1679.31,"body":"your listeners is"},{"startTime":1680.378,"endTime":1682.213,"body":"to look at"},{"startTime":1682.213,"endTime":1685.216,"body":"I can't remember the exact linkage,"},{"startTime":1682.213,"endTime":1685.216,"body":"but if you look at"},{"startTime":1685.817,"endTime":1687.986,"body":"hospice, buffalo,"},{"startTime":1687.986,"endTime":1692.223,"body":"end of life dreams or visions or hospice"},{"startTime":1687.986,"endTime":1692.223,"body":"buffalo patients on YouTube,"},{"startTime":1692.223,"endTime":1696.194,"body":"there is a bundle of videos"},{"startTime":1692.223,"endTime":1696.194,"body":"because I can't do this justice."},{"startTime":1696.194,"endTime":1699.197,"body":"You really have to hear from the patients"},{"startTime":1696.194,"endTime":1699.197,"body":"and families"},{"startTime":1699.564,"endTime":1702.5,"body":"themselves"},{"startTime":1699.564,"endTime":1702.5,"body":"because they're really quite moving."},{"startTime":1702.5,"endTime":1704.402,"body":"Yeah,"},{"startTime":1702.5,"endTime":1704.402,"body":"we're doing a lot of interesting things."},{"startTime":1704.402,"endTime":1708.64,"body":"We're working with an Emmy,"},{"startTime":1704.402,"endTime":1708.64,"body":"an Academy Award winner on a film"},{"startTime":1709.207,"endTime":1713.845,"body":"that they're we're working with indigenous"},{"startTime":1709.207,"endTime":1713.845,"body":"people in Brazil and Australia"},{"startTime":1713.845,"endTime":1718.183,"body":"and who have had all these"},{"startTime":1713.845,"endTime":1718.183,"body":"cultural beliefs all along."},{"startTime":1718.65,"endTime":1721.019,"body":"And they're coupling that"},{"startTime":1718.65,"endTime":1721.019,"body":"with our research."},{"startTime":1721.019,"endTime":1724.522,"body":"And kind of the take home is this has"},{"startTime":1721.019,"endTime":1724.522,"body":"always been part of the human experience."},{"startTime":1724.522,"endTime":1727.459,"body":"It's not something"},{"startTime":1724.522,"endTime":1727.459,"body":"newly discovered but lost."},{"startTime":1728.893,"endTime":1731.763,"body":"And that's"},{"startTime":1728.893,"endTime":1731.763,"body":"really cool that we're working on."},{"startTime":1731.763,"endTime":1734.899,"body":"And then we have a lot of just a number"},{"startTime":1731.763,"endTime":1734.899,"body":"of really interesting studies we're."},{"startTime":1734.899,"endTime":1736.101,"body":"Doing as well."},{"startTime":1736.101,"endTime":1739.671,"body":"Well, we'll encourage the listeners in,"},{"startTime":1736.101,"endTime":1739.671,"body":"like I said earlier in our show"},{"startTime":1739.671,"endTime":1744.008,"body":"notes to to refer to that"},{"startTime":1739.671,"endTime":1744.008,"body":"and be sure that they get that information"},{"startTime":1744.008,"endTime":1748.012,"body":"and and and again, words don't do it"},{"startTime":1744.008,"endTime":1748.012,"body":"justice."},{"startTime":1748.012,"endTime":1753.785,"body":"The power of those video interviews"},{"startTime":1748.012,"endTime":1753.785,"body":"with the family"},{"startTime":1753.785,"endTime":1758.523,"body":"and with the patients"},{"startTime":1753.785,"endTime":1758.523,"body":"it's it's it's it's it's very impactful."},{"startTime":1759.357,"endTime":1759.891,"body":"So Dr."},{"startTime":1759.891,"endTime":1764.662,"body":"Kerr, I'm so grateful that we met through"},{"startTime":1759.891,"endTime":1764.662,"body":"met Mary and the Cosgrove family."},{"startTime":1765.63,"endTime":1771.136,"body":"I want to thank you for your team's"},{"startTime":1765.63,"endTime":1771.136,"body":"care of Matt and of his family."},{"startTime":1771.402,"endTime":1773.738,"body":"That's most appreciated."},{"startTime":1773.738,"endTime":1776.741,"body":"I want to thank you for bringing peace,"},{"startTime":1773.738,"endTime":1776.741,"body":"compassion and grace"},{"startTime":1778.176,"endTime":1780.078,"body":"and love to all those"},{"startTime":1780.078,"endTime":1784.315,"body":"that you care for in their final chapter"},{"startTime":1780.078,"endTime":1784.315,"body":"of their earthly life."},{"startTime":1784.783,"endTime":1789.053,"body":"Is there anything that you would like"},{"startTime":1784.783,"endTime":1789.053,"body":"to add as kind of a closing remark here?"},{"startTime":1789.053,"endTime":1791.322,"body":"Because, you know, I just. I just think"},{"startTime":1792.323,"endTime":1793.625,"body":"it's fun"},{"startTime":1793.625,"endTime":1794.359,"body":"talking to you, not"},{"startTime":1794.359,"endTime":1797.862,"body":"only because you've obviously given"},{"startTime":1794.359,"endTime":1797.862,"body":"this a great depth of thought,"},{"startTime":1798.263,"endTime":1803.034,"body":"but I I think it's part of this story"},{"startTime":1798.263,"endTime":1803.034,"body":"of gratitude and reverence"},{"startTime":1803.568,"endTime":1806.571,"body":"for your brother that is"},{"startTime":1807.605,"endTime":1809.407,"body":"that helps"},{"startTime":1809.407,"endTime":1811.776,"body":"you give give a death"},{"startTime":1811.776,"endTime":1814.779,"body":"and the loss of very different experience,"},{"startTime":1815.146,"endTime":1816.648,"body":"meaning."},{"startTime":1816.648,"endTime":1821.152,"body":"So I really congratulations"},{"startTime":1816.648,"endTime":1821.152,"body":"It's it's a heavy obligation"},{"startTime":1821.619,"endTime":1825.39,"body":"and but you're doing it"},{"startTime":1821.619,"endTime":1825.39,"body":"well so congrats to you."},{"startTime":1825.89,"endTime":1829.093,"body":"It's it's"},{"startTime":1825.89,"endTime":1829.093,"body":"my it's my privilege to do it And"},{"startTime":1829.093,"endTime":1832.096,"body":"and again"},{"startTime":1829.093,"endTime":1832.096,"body":"I'm just the the voice behind it."},{"startTime":1832.43,"endTime":1835.9,"body":"I have the whole entire Cosgrove"},{"startTime":1832.43,"endTime":1835.9,"body":"and Marian families"},{"startTime":1836.367,"endTime":1840.338,"body":"behind me, you know, encouraging and,"},{"startTime":1836.367,"endTime":1840.338,"body":"and supporting us."},{"startTime":1840.338,"endTime":1845.243,"body":"But so one of the things"},{"startTime":1840.338,"endTime":1845.243,"body":"that Matt would always close with"},{"startTime":1845.243,"endTime":1848.213,"body":"and and kind of remind his listeners of,"},{"startTime":1849.28,"endTime":1854.085,"body":"you know, he met roadblocks"},{"startTime":1849.28,"endTime":1854.085,"body":"and his dedication, work ethic, ethic"},{"startTime":1854.085,"endTime":1859.057,"body":"and willingness to help others on"},{"startTime":1854.085,"endTime":1859.057,"body":"his journey was his gift to us."},{"startTime":1859.057,"endTime":1861.459,"body":"And we want to continue that."},{"startTime":1861.459,"endTime":1863.394,"body":"Doctor, I see that work."},{"startTime":1863.394,"endTime":1863.962,"body":"Excuse me."},{"startTime":1863.962,"endTime":1866.197,"body":"I see that in your life and in your work."},{"startTime":1866.197,"endTime":1867.398,"body":"And thank you for that."},{"startTime":1867.398,"endTime":1869.467,"body":"And thank you"},{"startTime":1867.398,"endTime":1869.467,"body":"for all those you've cared for."},{"startTime":1870.702,"endTime":1872.37,"body":"We're so inspired by what"},{"startTime":1872.37,"endTime":1875.373,"body":"you've said here today"},{"startTime":1872.37,"endTime":1875.373,"body":"and the work that you've done."},{"startTime":1876.374,"endTime":1878.509,"body":"I'll remind our listeners"},{"startTime":1878.509,"endTime":1881.145,"body":"to put into practice Dr."},{"startTime":1881.145,"endTime":1883.348,"body":"Kerr's message"},{"startTime":1883.348,"endTime":1886.284,"body":"and and learn how they can apply"},{"startTime":1886.284,"endTime":1890.955,"body":"some of his lessons to their daily lives."},{"startTime":1891.89,"endTime":1895.093,"body":"Matt reminded us"},{"startTime":1891.89,"endTime":1895.093,"body":"there are three things that we can do"},{"startTime":1895.994,"endTime":1899.03,"body":"find the courage to be grateful regardless"},{"startTime":1895.994,"endTime":1899.03,"body":"of how powerful"},{"startTime":1899.03,"endTime":1902.533,"body":"this storm is, be present"},{"startTime":1899.03,"endTime":1902.533,"body":"with those that we are around."},{"startTime":1903.201,"endTime":1907.372,"body":"Pay attention to what we are"},{"startTime":1903.201,"endTime":1907.372,"body":"feeding our mind, our body and our soul."},{"startTime":1907.672,"endTime":1911.376,"body":"Again, again, a tremendous"},{"startTime":1907.672,"endTime":1911.376,"body":"thank you to our today's guest, Dr."},{"startTime":1911.376,"endTime":1912.61,"body":"Chris Kerr."},{"startTime":1912.61,"endTime":1915.413,"body":"Remember to subscribe to this show,"},{"startTime":1915.413,"endTime":1918.95,"body":"share it with friends and comment"},{"startTime":1915.413,"endTime":1918.95,"body":"on the show with gratitude."},{"startTime":1918.95,"endTime":1923.621,"body":"Matt Listeners, until next time,"},{"startTime":1918.95,"endTime":1923.621,"body":"find the courage to be grateful."},{"startTime":1923.821,"endTime":1925.256,"body":"Godspeed, my friends."}]}