In this captivating episode of the College Knowledge Podcast, host Joe Kerins and guest co-host Clay Kovach engage in a riveting discussion with Darren Coelho, Assistant Athletics Director for Ticket Operations at San Jose State University. Tune in to explore the array of career opportunities available in the sports industry beyond playing and coaching. From sports administration to media relations and ticket operations, Darren shares valuable insights and emphasizes the significance of internships and networking for aspiring students. Gain valuable knowledge about the evolving landscape of sports management and the importance of hands-on experience within university athletic departments. Whether you're a sports enthusiast or intrigued by behind-the-scenes operations, this podcast offers an eye-opening glimpse into the dynamic world of college sports.
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Elite Collegiate Planning
In this captivating episode of the College Knowledge Podcast, host Joe Kerins and guest co-host Clay Kovach engage in a riveting discussion with Darren Coelho, Assistant Athletics Director for Ticket Operations at San Jose State University. Tune in to explore the array of career opportunities available in the sports industry beyond playing and coaching. From sports administration to media relations and ticket operations, Darren shares valuable insights and emphasizes the significance of internships and networking for aspiring students. Gain valuable knowledge about the evolving landscape of sports management and the importance of hands-on experience within university athletic departments. Whether you're a sports enthusiast or intrigued by behind-the-scenes operations, this podcast offers an eye-opening glimpse into the dynamic world of college sports.
Video Version of Podcast YouTube:
The College Knowledge Podcast
Follow us on social media:
Instagram
Facebook
LinkedIn
Visit us online:
The College Knowledge Podcast Website
Elite Collegiate Planning
00:00:03:07 - 00:00:25:18
Speaker 1
Welcome to the College Knowledge Podcast, sponsored by the College Planning Network and Paradigm Financial Group. Whether you're searching for that right fit college, applying to college, or figuring out how you're going to afford it all, you're in the right place. You'll hear from deans, admissions counselors, student athletes and scholars from Austin, universities and colleges around the country. We'll dig deep to uncover their insight and unique experiences.
00:00:25:20 - 00:00:42:16
Speaker 1
So whether you're a student gearing up for college or a parent with college bound kids, sit back, relax and listen. Like you, we have lots of questions. Our guests have the answers, and we're excited to share them with you. Let's get started.
00:00:42:18 - 00:00:49:17
Speaker 1
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00:00:49:23 - 00:01:15:04
Clay & Joe
Hello, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of College Knowledge. Today, I am your host, Joe Kearns. Dave is on vacation. So we are have our back up. Actually, I will call him a back up. But Clay Kovacs is joining me today. Yeah, Clay's place filling in third chair, we'll call it. But we are very excited today. We have a great guest all the way from San Jose State University.
00:01:15:06 - 00:01:26:22
Clay & Joe
He's the assistant athletic director for ticket operations, Darren Collette Coello. Sorry, I put the L in front there that call. Darren, thanks so much for being with us today.
00:01:26:24 - 00:01:29:04
Darren
You bet. Thank you. Thanks for the opportunity.
00:01:29:06 - 00:01:42:23
Clay & Joe
Yeah. So I always you know, we always like to know a little bit more about our guests and understand, I guess, a little bit about, yeah, we'll say your role, but also how you got to where you're at. What was your journey like? You know, as far as through high school, college and leading into where you're at today.
00:01:42:23 - 00:01:46:08
Clay & Joe
So how did you get to this position in your life?
00:01:46:10 - 00:02:11:06
Darren
Well, I think I always had a little bit of a personality, and I was somebody who I hope I still do. In fact, I like to talk a little bit. And so going through my high school years, I actually went to Leland High School in our in Valley South San Jose for historical perspective. Brant Jones, former San Francisco 49, was a Leland High grad, as is Pat Tillman, who was a freshman when I was a senior high.
00:02:11:08 - 00:02:39:05
Darren
But we had a high school radio station and so I played high school basketball and, you know, sort of a social guy, whatever. But I really enjoyed part of my high school years, actually was part of my high school radio station, which the call letters were 89.3 Cleo Leland High. Cleo. It's not there anymore. I was bought by or basically sold to a rival high school in San Jose and I think is on the air somewhere, somehow, somewhere.
00:02:39:07 - 00:03:06:12
Darren
You've been a little while since I've been in high school, but for me that was a way that I could sort of convey my personality a little bit and have a little fun at the same time. And so that really led into an opportunity at San Jose State. I really didn't pursue the radio side of it, but I my journey led to public relations major and sort of really with communication studies to refining my speaking skills and my writing skills and whatever.
00:03:06:12 - 00:03:31:11
Darren
So how that parlays, you know, at a university excuse me, in a professional perspective, a lot of PR majors that ultimately are media relations people, the sports information directors, that sort of thing. Mine sort of led. As for an opportunity with a with a brand new professional football team in San Jose as part of the Arena Football League, the San Jose Saber Cats and I was their first ever intern in media relations.
00:03:31:11 - 00:03:54:23
Darren
And like a lot of things, when you're first around your your initial opportunity, I really wanted to absorb everything in the front office. So I was involved in marketing and heard how the sales guys talked on the phone and I figure it out, ticketing things and then ultimately that, you know, without jumping ahead too far, that led to an opportunity to be hired there full time as a ticket manager.
00:03:54:23 - 00:03:59:18
Darren
And then I parlayed that at San Jose State and been there for quite a few years now.
00:03:59:20 - 00:04:24:11
Clay & Joe
Yeah. I'm curious throughout your journey, you know, kind of taking it from, Hey, I want to showcase my personality. Rito radio leads to different areas to an internship. We've always heard many stories about mentors in life and kind of helping say, Hey, this is the pathway or This is the roadmap, or Hey, you should pursue this, or if that's what you want to do, this is how you do it.
00:04:24:13 - 00:04:32:09
Clay & Joe
Any experience with mentors in your life that you can look back on and say, Oh yeah, that that was a big role in how I got to where I am.
00:04:32:11 - 00:04:51:20
Darren
Yeah, I think it's interesting from a communications perspective. When I was on my high school radio station, the teacher was a guy named Joe Lobo, and when I got hired at San Jose State, quickly realized in our season ticket and donor circles, Joe was really involved and I had no idea at the time that he wasn't as involved as he was.
00:04:51:20 - 00:05:13:22
Darren
But he was a proud mom. And this is a guy that on his free time went to practices, flip, love, football and all that. So I think from that angle, Joe Lobo certainly was was one of the first. But after graduating to mentors for me, I think the Grand Puba and College Athletics ticketing is Dave Lowenstein. Anyone who knows anything about what UCLA does should.
00:05:13:24 - 00:05:31:17
Darren
If you don't, you should look at it. There's a ticket office and I don't know how many venues it is now, but for many years their Central ticket office ran 23 venues on that campus. And so when you called there, they would train everyone equally. And they wouldn't say, have that call, go, All right, You only want sports.
00:05:31:17 - 00:05:51:03
Darren
You're going to get a sports person and you had to be trained in every single angle. And you could talk productively to anyone who wanted art or a museum tour or had a question about the Rose Bowl. Yeah. So they a Dave Lowenstein For sure. And then locally he's passed away now, sadly. But a gentleman named Dan de Boer worked it.
00:05:51:03 - 00:06:14:10
Darren
Take a trip, take a Tron. For those of us that are of gray hair and before in the Midwest, that was Dan's background, but he was the original director of ticket operations at what is now called SAP Center in San Jose. When the arena opened in 93, it was San Jose Arena, it was Compaq Center, it was HP Pavilion, and now it's called the SAP Center.
00:06:14:11 - 00:06:43:04
Darren
Yeah, man was the box office manager there. And I really liked spending time with him and really learning the ins and outs. I mean, we didn't we don't do a lot of special events at San Jose State, but the variety of events and the fact that we partnered with the arena for NCAA basketball a few times from me, from the ticket side as a ticket liaison and Dan, from the operational side was really, really a special relationship and one that I coveted for many years until Dan sadly passed away.
00:06:43:06 - 00:06:59:13
Clay & Joe
The other part of your story that I was interested in is as far as the internship goes, you said you were the first intern, right? It was. And, you know, oddly enough, it's that you started working out of college from where that internship. And that was at your first internship. Did you intern anywhere else?
00:06:59:15 - 00:07:19:01
Darren
No. It's sort of an interesting story, if you don't mind. I share it. You know, in the old days at San Jose State, like a lot of academic universities in certain majors, you had to do an internship. So I remember at the time that it was this big old dusty binder, right? It's like flipped through here and find alphabetically the the one you want.
00:07:19:02 - 00:07:39:19
Darren
So you might have had somebody that wasn't interested in public television at all, and they flip the P and they're like, okay, I guess I'll do that. Or somebody in a hospital situation that would choose to do that just to satisfy the credit. So obviously the experience is vital. Yeah, but for me, I actually petitioned the department because the Democrats were a brand new entity.
00:07:39:21 - 00:08:11:02
Darren
The Arena Football League had been around but was a brand new entity in a downtown arena in 1995. Arena was just a few years old. It was summer at the time, summer activity for starving football fans, right? It didn't have the NFL or anything else. And basically as their first sort of administrative intern, there were some folks on the football side that came around the same time or soon after I basically petitioned them and said, look, what other better opportunity is this?
00:08:11:02 - 00:08:38:18
Darren
This is exactly what I want to study, Exactly who I want to work for, to be a part of this brand new organization. And I think that's that ultimately is what it what it led to was I petitioned had to satisfy some requirements in terms of my time in northern Europe and setting made some land or whatever and that's what I would suggest anyone who has that interest is obviously you want a wide range.
00:08:38:20 - 00:09:05:07
Darren
I mean, if your web is wide, that's great. But I would hope that darn near 20 or 30 years, you know, 25 to 30 years later than I did it, there's more opportunities and things like that. But I'm glad the San Jose State agreed with me and allowed me to do it because that that led me on a path that after graduation, even though I worked in private industry for a short time, it led for a full time opportunity afterward.
00:09:05:07 - 00:09:26:04
Darren
And clearly there's a lot of places, university, etc., that are like that, where they want you to come in as an undergrad, gain experience, and then, you know, and to be honest with you guys, athletic departments are expanding in size because of creative and marketing things and more campus involvement, things like that. So there's more opportunities than there ever been now.
00:09:26:06 - 00:09:45:07
Clay & Joe
Yeah, I want to get to that in just a second, but I think that is extremely pivotal and such a great story because we've, you know, a lot of times when we talk internships, it usually leads to, hey, I got an internship and then immediately, you know, I found out I didn't want to do that, you know, like, hey, this is I thought it was one thing.
00:09:45:07 - 00:10:08:01
Clay & Joe
And now when I'm in the real world looking at it is I don't want to be doing this. And that can lead to maybe a different type of job within a certain major program, or it may lead to a changing your major completely. You know, but it's it's very important to understand that. And but I think the initiative I mean, just think about it this way from an employer standpoint.
00:10:08:01 - 00:10:29:19
Clay & Joe
I mean, because I've heard this story a couple of times now, if you are a in college and you have a dream job and you know, you want to work for a company, you know, you know, you want a specific role that's where you want to be. And there is not an internship opportunity. And then you put the work in through the school and through the employer to make it happen.
00:10:29:21 - 00:10:45:22
Clay & Joe
That employer, I would say it's going to be a pretty high chance they're going to hire you because that's how dedicated you are to just want to work there. I mean, an employer, you want your employees to be want to be there, right? So I think that can go a very long way just because there may not be the opportunity.
00:10:45:22 - 00:11:04:21
Clay & Joe
If you're in college right now, you're in high school and you're thinking, hey, I know I want to do this. If there's not that opportunity there. The concept of trying to network and take the initiative can obviously work in your case. But I mean, it will look extremely well. I know of anybody game. You know, if I owned a business and somebody came to me.
00:11:04:21 - 00:11:18:09
Clay & Joe
So I want to work for you and I want to be an intern. And I created this through school. I'm like, I'm higher in this kid as long as he, you know, shows up and works. But that's pretty impressive. And I think it's that's a great part of your story. I think that our listeners should definitely have that as a take away because I've heard it.
00:11:18:09 - 00:11:23:17
Clay & Joe
This isn't the first time I've heard it, and it's always led to, yeah, that's where you work. It's pretty interesting.
00:11:23:19 - 00:11:42:23
Darren
Well, and again, to add one other thing at San Jose State that I think is special too, is we launched the program a number of years ago under Brant Brennan's guidance, who's our football coach, But Brant and some other staff there basically have a thing for student athletes and it started as beyond football, which was our football student athletes.
00:11:42:23 - 00:12:04:02
Darren
I mean, we're in Silicon Valley and there's plenty of opportunities around us. And these kids, these student athletes really are learning opportunities with interviewing and internships or whatever while they're undergrads. Many of them continue now with extra years from COVID or the transfer portal guys coming in, whatever, you know, you might even have some grad years there where you can do that.
00:12:04:02 - 00:12:40:14
Darren
And now it's it's extended beyond just football. It's now beyond Sparta, which is all of our student athletes really have that opportunity now in some capacity to try to get to know some of these high tech companies that are that are interested in and especially engineers and other stuff that we're really well known for on our campus. But I mean, it comes down to this and this is my one of my biggest regrets, Joe, is that when I was in college, I mean, I work I left intramurals and I had other part time jobs or whatever, but I wasn't engaged in the way that I look back now.
00:12:40:14 - 00:13:14:01
Darren
I wish I was so I'm glad that I pursued that opportunity. And I found one outside the university with with the saber cats in their infancy. But in that regard, my suggestion for a lot of folks is try to get involved with your athletic departments when you become an undergrad at at that university. And I mean, we may touch on this but and maybe I'm wearing this through ticket colored lenses, lenses, I should say, but there's no better opportunity to take it off because everything you're going to experience while you're there is going to be front facing.
00:13:14:07 - 00:13:41:24
Darren
So you learn customer service, you're going to be learning operationally how to build events and manage events. So there's a programing angle. Yeah, there's reconciliation. So you satisfy your business office experience. When you're you build an event, you sell an event, you got to reconcile it. And then obviously from a compliance perspective, yeah, we're involved in student athlete admissions where there's NCAA and in our case, mountain West rules and regulations and you have to follow all of that.
00:13:42:01 - 00:14:02:16
Darren
So in, in in many light, without overstating what we do, the ticket office is the door to athletics. There's clearly a lot of people that might be their only involvement in our department is that they buy tickets or want to go to a game or they have season ticket to whatever. But in some light, without overstating it, it could be the door to the university to do.
00:14:02:17 - 00:14:19:22
Darren
They may not be an alum, they may not be in the alumni association. They may not even walk on campus. Yeah, but if we're the door to what the whole university's messages about and our department and all that stuff, that there's no better role than that. I mean, that's what it's about.
00:14:19:24 - 00:14:38:18
Clay & Joe
Yeah. Darren What I mean, I know this may be a loaded question, but what is your role, you know, with San Jose State? What exactly are you involved with student athlete admissions. Are you involved with is there like do you have a say in merit based money, scholarships, things like that? Are you like, what are you what is your role at the university right now?
00:14:38:24 - 00:15:00:10
Darren
Well, it's athletics administration. I can tell you that I'm the social chairman and I only plan, you know, fun things. And I know I have everything to do with what play we'll call on third and ten. But I don't I mean, I think the key thing in my role is much of what I just mentioned. Yes, we're the we're the face of the department and the voice in in operationally in what we do.
00:15:00:10 - 00:15:21:11
Darren
Because in the old days, I could tell you we saw paper admissions. But a lot of times you don't really do that much anymore. I think it's really experiences. We're the ones that people talk to. We're the ones that that people may call if they have no other knowledge of our facilities, of our venue, the venues of who we're playing, when we're playing, all that sort of thing.
00:15:21:11 - 00:15:52:11
Darren
So for me it's building out and managing events that we sell tickets for. We're still the sponsors, you know, nearly two dozen sports. Yeah, you get nine. And in some university circles, nationally, nine is a lot. And the mountain states that don't have baseball or softball because they can't do it or you know, Clay mentioned it was in Cleveland or whatever you have a lot of sports that that excuse me Philadelphia psychologist We have a lot of sports in the spring that will play a lot of games on the road.
00:15:52:11 - 00:16:16:15
Darren
Right. There's not a lot of Big Ten baseball programs playing a lot of home games in February and March. Right. Right. You're like coming to California or playing playing in Arizona. SWING. Yeah. So it's really managing all of our ticket events and operations and then everything that's involved. And I've been very fortunate that I've been a part of our travel group for Road football games for for all my years and for most of my years anyway.
00:16:16:15 - 00:16:38:05
Darren
And it's really nice to get to know our fans when they're away from home, too. You get to know our parents, you get to know our our alums. You get people in the region that that that are there for that game. But I do want to mention something. I was thinking about it the other day. My favorite again, I've worked in a private this is my 23rd year coming up.
00:16:38:07 - 00:17:11:08
Darren
My favorite meeting that I ever had in our department was in 2006. We actually hosted Stanford and our stadium, which is pretty rare occasion. We usually we play them in football, we play we played Stanford Stadium. So in 2005 we met because Stanford was remodeling their stadium from 85,500, which anyone who's seen Super Bowl 19 highlights when the Niners played the Dolphins, that was Stanford Stadium as big big stadium they're renovating down to 50 but it wasn't going to be ready for their first home game, which was against us and got shifted to our stadium.
00:17:11:10 - 00:17:30:23
Darren
And in a meeting next to my office at the time and now what part of what our office is across the table from me was Bill Wolff, who was the interim A.D. at Stanford at the time, Debra Nelson, who played in the NFL, Minnesota Vikings. And I was very, very well-known Stanford alum who's involved administratively in my ticketing counterpart.
00:17:30:23 - 00:17:48:10
Darren
And on my side was Tom Bowman, who was already at the time Mark Harlan, who's now the A.D. at Utah and myself. And I was just thinking the other day, that's been you know, we're inching toward 20 years ago. That meeting was one of the coolest meetings I've ever been. I'm sitting past Bill Walsh and Debra Nelson playing the NFL.
00:17:48:16 - 00:18:03:09
Darren
And we're talking about, you know, what we're going to do to host them. Right. And that was pretty rare. So you get those pinch moments to where you're not you don't overstate it, but it's like, well, what we do is what we do is pretty cool. Yeah.
00:18:03:11 - 00:18:24:01
Clay & Joe
Yeah. You've also mentioned that over your over the time, like, there's been a lot of changes, not just, I'm sure, at San Jose State, but just, you know, across the country, colleges, universities. What are some of the biggest things that you've seen that are different now versus, you know, say, ten, 15 years ago from, you know, just this realm of sports and events?
00:18:24:01 - 00:18:34:02
Clay & Joe
How much has it changed over time? I mean, obviously, I'm sure like you mentioned, paper is paper tickets are a thing of the past, but what else have you drastically seen that's that's changed over time?
00:18:34:04 - 00:19:02:07
Darren
Well, yeah. I mean, from a ticketing perspective. Yeah. The way people want to manage their manage their tickets and the transferability of that, that's a big thing. I mean, everything's, everything's digital. And we clearly have a core group, just like a lot of people, that maybe don't have the wherewithal, certainly don't have the technology. We still have some flip phone people that are like, Look, you can send me or text me anything you want, but my phone is for calling and talking.
00:19:02:09 - 00:19:22:19
Darren
You deal with that. But yeah, I mean, I think it's just the technology and the capability people have. I think it's amazing to think that, you know, we have people buy season tickets on their phone for football or basketball at the event at the first game. MM In the old days you stood in line like, I like my friends at Fresno State.
00:19:22:21 - 00:19:46:07
Darren
I remember they used to dedicate a window at their first home game season ticket sale and they'd have a few people and then you'd have a long line of people for single games or whatever. And I think the way that it's approached, I remember years ago, I'm really involved in the International Ticketing Association Index, too, and we were on a tour somewhere and I remember somebody customer service window, it was an NBA arena.
00:19:46:09 - 00:20:13:05
Darren
It said ticket problems. That's how it was labeled. And I'm thinking, who's going to be drawn to have that sort of thing out there right now? I got a problem. Let me tell you about my problem. So I think that's part of it. And then clearly, you know, the comings and goings, I mean, I I'm fortunate on our campus that we're we're we're really drawn with international student athletes, and I get quite a few of them.
00:20:13:05 - 00:20:30:04
Darren
That one experience in our department I just had one that that was a student assistant for me who was from Wales. He was a men's soccer player and he just graduated and he's gone back home. And I think so that's what's changed too, for me is really the involvement in the student athletes and bringing them in students in general.
00:20:30:06 - 00:20:53:06
Darren
I have graduate assistants on campus that have had no they don't go to games. They don't know much about it, but they want to. And they figured that an opportunity in our office would be a great way to get to know it. You know? So, I mean, that's that's from our angle. But clearly from a university perspective all over the country, even though I'm not directly involved in this transfer portal, as you know, is free agency.
00:20:53:06 - 00:21:10:24
Darren
Yeah, that's that's pretty interesting. I mean, I remember when when we were in the back at San Jose State, when I first started in oh one, there were 16 schools and all different sizes. We went from Ruston, Louisiana to Hawaii and, you know, you had schools like Rice and Tulsa that may have had four or 5000 student bodies.
00:21:10:24 - 00:21:27:00
Darren
And then you have our student body. It's 30,000 more than that. Yeah. So really an interesting dynamic. So certainly conference chiefs and transfer portal people coming around and then obviously you know this this and I Oh.
00:21:27:06 - 00:21:28:00
Clay & Joe
Yeah.
00:21:28:02 - 00:21:43:16
Darren
That's such an interesting time We go play USC this year in football and just the dynamic of the now out there, it's totally different than it was two years ago when we went to play there. So, you know, anyone who loves history might like a matchup between the Spartans and the Trojans. To the spirit of.
00:21:43:21 - 00:21:46:21
Clay & Joe
One season opener this year, Right?
00:21:46:23 - 00:21:59:17
Darren
It is. Yeah. We are a week zero games. So August 26th we are. We are down there and then we're home six days later to play. We're in state. There's a really, really, really exciting home game for us on KBS.
00:21:59:19 - 00:22:08:16
Speaker 1
Thank you guys for being a part of college knowledge. Just a reminder, if you're sending your student to school, visit elite collegiate planning dot com for free resources and to book a free consultation.
00:22:08:18 - 00:22:30:04
Clay & Joe
Nice question I mean it's you know when we're talking about potential high school students that may be wanting to pursue you know I mean I knew I grew up with sports. You know I was pretty much what I knew best outside of math. That was always really just natural good at math. So I thought I was going to be a math teacher and I liked speaking.
00:22:30:04 - 00:22:42:03
Clay & Joe
And so I was like, Yeah, those two things are line up, but I made a ton of kids and I know even when I was younger, it's like, Well, what do you want to do? I mean, like, I don't know, I like sports. So it's like, All right, well, hey, if I, I'm good at math and I like sports.
00:22:42:03 - 00:23:09:16
Clay & Joe
Art will be a teacher, and then I'll be a coach, you know, like, that's how I emerged. Those two worlds together in your area. I mean, if you're bringing people in or they're students that are trying to pursue a career that you have, do they need essentially a sports background or is it just more do you only do you really only see kids that kind of are interested in pursuing, you know, your type of career, whether it's public relations or sports related that they're passionate about or that they've been an athlete in their life?
00:23:09:16 - 00:23:16:01
Clay & Joe
What are you kind of seeing as far as well, say, the characteristics of students who kind of want to pursue what you're doing?
00:23:16:03 - 00:23:35:14
Darren
I think it's a mixture. I mean, you certainly have diehards that are like, look, especially in media relations, right. That or some of the creative stuff now with marketing and others that are like, look, I love social media, I want to do this and I am creative in my own pages and I want to be involved in my area.
00:23:35:16 - 00:24:00:21
Darren
As I sort of mentioned before, it's been a nice mixture. I I'm an area for student athletes and I mean, again, I don't have 100 people on my staff. I don't want you to make it seem like that. But I have a good mixture. I have some student athletes that that maybe in the off season when it's not their planning season might have some time and they want to earn some some hours back or our department used to have what was called a fifth year program.
00:24:00:23 - 00:24:25:23
Darren
And I mentioned, well, here's a problem that San Jose State alumni covered. Who's on the PGA Tour now? Mark was a fifth year, so Mark was he was a whack champion in men's golf one year. But he he basically was done athletically. You know, you have the old days. You have five, five years to play for. Right. He was done athletically, but he still was pursuing academics at the time.
00:24:25:23 - 00:24:51:08
Darren
And so they basically we used to have a program called the fifth year where you could stay on scholarship per se, in return for work hours. And so I inherited him and he worked events for me. That was great. Yeah. So I think for me it's a mixture of folks. You're going to have some that are certainly eager and they know that they, they I'm a good writer and I love statistics and maybe I want to be involved in media relations and be involved in player interviews or whatever.
00:24:51:10 - 00:25:27:01
Darren
And then you have some folks, like I mentioned, I've had some international students that really have no other. They're not going to games. They really don't know much about it, but they figured it was a good area to to inquire about. And then from there they felt like they were more involved. And all that stuff is so big because you have people that might be back in the house mentality, like I like being in the back of the classroom in high school and I don't I keep to myself and I don't talk to anyone.
00:25:27:01 - 00:25:48:15
Darren
Whatever. It's interesting when they are not forced, but when they are put in a situation, when they're in the front where, hey man, your personality might come out, you may be able to talk to people like you never thought you could before. And there's nothing wrong with conflict resolution and learning how to do that. And I tell my students, too, that, hey, man, when somebody is in front of you and they're hot, there's nowhere to hide.
00:25:48:16 - 00:26:16:04
Darren
Like, we got to be able to handle that, right? So and that happens, you know, and I think the key thing is you want to put them in a position to succeed over. I have a friend in the industry who told a story about a situation at a football game years ago at another university where his supervisor was more of a visionary and he really loved all of it, but couldn't at the core of it, sell a ticket, couldn't go in the system and do an elementary task.
00:26:16:06 - 00:26:36:00
Darren
So he had to bring a step in in customer service situation to resolve an issue. So now you're bringing another layer. Fans are waiting. They're waiting longer customer service. Now they're getting mad. The games are going on. And I'm thinking, man, I love the mentality of the restaurant manager that, you know, if the cook doesn't show up for the chef, are you closed?
00:26:36:02 - 00:26:57:17
Darren
All right. Well, roll up your sleeves, baby, because you're cooking now. That's what you're trained to do. And that's that's my mentality to I want to put everyone in position to succeed and I want them to gain that experience to the point where they feel like they can handle it and manage it. That's what it's about. Yeah. And yeah, I was I was going to say, I think from.
00:26:57:19 - 00:26:59:05
Clay & Joe
Our first conversation I was.
00:26:59:05 - 00:27:00:07
Darren
Pretty.
00:27:00:09 - 00:27:01:05
Clay & Joe
Shocked, I guess, to.
00:27:01:05 - 00:27:03:09
Darren
Realize how large.
00:27:03:09 - 00:27:28:14
Clay & Joe
Athletic departments at schools have gotten. And we started talking a little bit about, you know, just the depth of of your role. But outside of that, I mean, we were discussing some, you know, roles and ideas of what a student could do or what someone could be interested in. But, you know, as far as the different jobs out there and athletic departments now, I feel like from everything I've been looking at, communication side, marketing side, you know, media back and forth, business.
00:27:28:20 - 00:27:34:12
Clay & Joe
I mean, it seems like there are a lot of different tracks that you can have going into to work for a school's athletic department.
00:27:34:14 - 00:28:01:12
Darren
There's no doubt. And as schools get bigger and, you know, in major college football, you know, 85 scholarships or whatever, you know, plus, you know, other guys that might be redshirting or injured or whatever, I mean, you're around all those guys and in every capacity. I mean, a lot of people take it for granted, right? But I mean, our equipment guys, there's opportunities, literally boots on the ground, you know, under them.
00:28:01:12 - 00:28:21:23
Darren
You have I mentioned the creative side. Our football side has so many creative people and they all bring different ideas to how how things are presented. And, you know, everything is there's a lot of pomp and circumstance now than than there used to be. And who's first and, you know, how does it look? And, you know, let's tease this uniform or this helmet or whatever.
00:28:22:00 - 00:28:52:11
Darren
And there's definitely opportunities across the board. I mean, I mentioned major college football. That's only 130 or so programs. And if you look at basketball, you got 350 whatever to play Division one to. It doesn't need to be major college football for your opportunity. It could be anywhere you go. Most schools sponsor athletics, even junior college level. And if you're looking to gain experience, there's always volunteer opportunities in most areas internally or with a team.
00:28:52:13 - 00:29:16:12
Darren
And then certainly, as we mentioned, the opportunities around the team are growing on. These teams are growing every year because of the ability among these creative teams and operational operational things that are always there. I mean, I mentioned the equipment side. I mean, if you go to the right, so you're at 58 scholarships or whatever, excuse me, there's still equipment needs.
00:29:16:14 - 00:29:53:19
Darren
Maybe it's not as many guys, you know, but it's the ins and outs of it and anyone who's involved in in any bit of it is a lot of there's a lot of hard work. That's why you're seeing a lot of, you know, assistant 80 titles for like a football operations person, a D Doe for that situation or something like that, because the amount of work that's involved in that, you've got 100 whatever, guys got all the logistics of moving, you know, 64 to 74 road football game plus trainers, plus broadcasters, plus administrators plus everyone involved, creative equipment, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, all that stuff.
00:29:53:19 - 00:30:13:20
Darren
There's so much time and effort that people have no idea of. I mean, there was that game years ago where Cal played Hawaii in in Australia. Well, it was Cal's home game and they had to travel every single person that would work at Cal Home game to work that game. Wow. So you had a P.A. announcer, You had stats, guys, you had all that.
00:30:13:20 - 00:30:44:20
Darren
He was basically like, well, it's really it's really cool. And there's, you know, there's special opportunities, but networks and and all that stuff, I mean, it's you don't have to you don't have to be in, in a long time to have the relationships, the relationships or what it's about. And again, my suggestion is, you know, in your high school years, as soon as you know where you're going to go, know a lot about what that schools offerings are for, something you're interested in and then pursue that your freshman year.
00:30:44:22 - 00:31:04:03
Darren
Some of my undergrads have said more than once they really wish that they would have pursued it. You know, maybe they came in as a junior or senior or whatever. They wish they would have done it sooner. And I wish I would have they would have, too. And then obviously for me, I said before, too, that's one of my biggest regrets, is that I, I wasn't as involved as an undergrad as I is.
00:31:04:03 - 00:31:10:18
Darren
I wish I was because that would have been, you know, of course, time to call, time to learn. While I was a student.
00:31:10:20 - 00:31:35:23
Clay & Joe
I was actually going to be my next question as far as, you know, if your high school, as soon as you chose your college or you're trying to figure out where you want to go, you know, I would imagine that these are some really good questions to ask on a potential college visit. You know, what opportunities are there, Because I'm sure I mean, there are so many misconception that just about college in general, but like you said, there might be a ton of resources or a ton of networking opportunities to.
00:31:35:24 - 00:31:59:00
Clay & Joe
Oh, well, I didn't know that existed. You know, I'm sure there's plenty of that that exists in this area. So what would you say is, is there any particular kind of best other than just going and asking, is there any type of way that students could, you know, who should they talk to to kind of find get those answers, like how can they how can they bring those things to light?
00:31:59:00 - 00:32:02:18
Clay & Joe
Is it on a website somewhere? What advice would you have to those students?
00:32:02:24 - 00:32:29:09
Darren
Well, it doesn't even have to be with the NCAA sponsoring it or or in air or wherever you are, you're going to be sponsored. You know, part of it you there are club sports on a lot of campuses. They're run by Associated Students. Maybe you have student activities involved around those. And so there's an opportunity, even without it being Division one or whatever, to have an opportunity.
00:32:29:09 - 00:32:54:00
Darren
Like I said, by way of these club programs, I mean, sure, these club programs that at some schools are as big or bigger than or in some light as big. I mean, I one of my nephews is is at Wisconsin any play club volleyball his freshman year and he was telling me and we're playing you know many schools in the big ten club All right that it's you know yeah it's not the Badgers one division one team, it's this club team.
00:32:54:00 - 00:33:18:04
Darren
But they're, you know, they might be playing Northwestern, whatever. And I think, you know, that's my suggestion is certainly know what sport offerings they have and then what opportunity you may look for within that sport or something administratively in there. And then obviously anything within associate students or student activities because, you know, like I said, I left intramurals when I was a student and I really enjoyed that.
00:33:18:06 - 00:33:45:20
Darren
So it might have been two dorms playing each other for know there's there's in a fraternity. Yep. Games or whatever so you can be involved in it. And I think that's, you know, to just be a part of the campus fabric, not every campus is like everyone might think they've seen in a movie or, you know, at 100 and 170, 108,000 and Michigan Stadium or whatever.
00:33:45:22 - 00:34:07:03
Darren
Right. Some student populations and student experiences come to you. The campus is so historical that, hey, everyone goes and everyone's a part of it are the ones you really have to make the experience what you want it to be. And you know, I have friends that were involved in the infancy of the student group at San Diego State.
00:34:07:05 - 00:34:30:16
Darren
It's now turned into this unbelievably rabid student section, the basketball games. Yeah. And that was sort of a, you know, a a boots on the ground thing where they were just rallying people and trying to get people to games. And now there's still another basketball games and went all the way to the championship. So, yeah, you know, I think that's the key thing is that, you know, let your personality come out and just see where it fits.
00:34:30:16 - 00:34:42:05
Darren
There's certainly student groups on campus and and know other social things or athletic things that you can do to to get involved. Yeah.
00:34:42:07 - 00:35:07:02
Clay & Joe
It's why you mentioned, you know, clubs and how big they can be. We had an interview with a lacrosse player at Virginia and he was shocked very early on to learn the biggest club on campus was the Quidditch Club from Harry Potter, he said. And it was amazing because, again, it just probably started out as something small. And the next thing you know, there's a lot of people that enjoyed it as well.
00:35:07:02 - 00:35:26:17
Clay & Joe
And it became the biggest club. And I think they even like again, that you mentioned with Bob, I think they travel to all the schools, play Quidditch like, I mean but yeah, so I mean definitely be open and make sure that when you are visiting schools that these are things that you're interested in. We always talk about finding the schools that are the best academic and financial fit.
00:35:26:17 - 00:35:44:15
Clay & Joe
That's finding the best fit school. A lot of these areas that you just mentioned are, yeah, when you find those pieces in your and you're doing more research is to help figure out the social and maybe even the academic side. Yeah, you know those are the really important questions to make sure. Yeah, I'm going to enjoy living my life here for four years.
00:35:44:22 - 00:36:01:07
Clay & Joe
Know, and I got to be open because the more open I am, probably the more I'm going to enjoy it. Yeah, and that's kind of along the lines of what I was going to say. There is the academic effort and the financial theater things we talk about. But on that social fit, I always ask, you know, are we looking for clubs, activities, sports teams when we're looking at these schools?
00:36:01:07 - 00:36:28:11
Clay & Joe
And when I say sports teams, I don't necessarily mean we're looking to go play there a lot of times. I mean, are we looking for that atmosphere, the the sports team to root for kind of that that student body, that that atmosphere? I mean, how important know that state has a that's a pretty big part of the of the student body and you know the activities around but how important do you think the the atmosphere of the athletics and the athletic department is to the students at the school and maybe even down the road from the alumni?
00:36:28:13 - 00:36:54:05
Darren
I most campuses is vitally important. I mean, I everybody's got an academic mission and no one's going to take away from that. But as we talk about in athletics, sometimes our a-kid, our academic side is not in the paper every day or what people are reading about on the web consistently during playing seasons. It's box scores and it's this story and that game and what this homecoming means or whatever.
00:36:54:07 - 00:37:20:20
Darren
And one thing I can mention to you guys too, is that there might be a feeling of somebody who is past have been intimidated. Right. Well, that's what campuses are about too You need to get involved with with when you're accepted, you know, you go to that go to that admitted day. Right. See what they're about. You know, maybe that burns, You know, maybe you're split between two campuses and then you go to admitted Daniel like, wow, this is actually different than I thought.
00:37:20:22 - 00:37:38:21
Darren
Certainly orientation is key when you're committed. And then a lot of those groups are going to promote themselves to you and you got to sort of figure out, you know, am I going to absorb that? What was I interested in Greek life or maybe I am now or this club or whatever. But I mentioned my one of my mentors, Dave Lowenstein, that I love so much.
00:37:38:21 - 00:38:03:06
Darren
Davis Talk about it for the first time or at a conference, right? They would have a red dot on their nametags, but everyone knew they were new. But that didn't mean people stayed away. That mean people were drawn to that. But at the same time, that same, you know, guy or gal or whoever that's in their dorm room the first time, that's fine if you're studying or if you want to relax, but that shouldn't be where you are all the time.
00:38:03:08 - 00:38:19:01
Darren
Maybe stock up with the red dots. You're not going to meet anybody or learn anything in your room. So get out of your hotel room blast. In this case, your dorm room, and walk around the campus and meet some people. And there might be some things that that they're appealing to you or like the Quidditch thing you talked about.
00:38:19:07 - 00:38:19:13
Clay & Joe
Yeah.
00:38:19:15 - 00:38:44:10
Darren
Or anything else. I mean, you never know what's being offered. And it's some of these larger campuses, hundreds and hundreds of clubs you talk about and people that might be in the same boat as them. Maybe I'm not from there. I'm new to the area and that's an icebreaker. I mean, I have everybody has stories about relatives or people they know I have and my sister and my brother and and my nieces and stuff that have been in college, too.
00:38:44:10 - 00:39:12:01
Darren
And people they met in the dorms ultimately became roommates of theirs outside of dorms. Just relationships. And, you know, that's that's what it's about. And those those relationships can you know if they if there's anything to them, they will continue well beyond your your your academic time or all the rest of that. I mean many of us who've been married, you know, those are the those are the people that you weren't necessarily friends from high school.
00:39:12:01 - 00:39:15:01
Darren
Totally. That are in your wedding party. It might be your friends from college.
00:39:15:03 - 00:39:35:23
Clay & Joe
Yeah. And I mean, I just in general, just networking like that. Just I always take it back to that is network and network doesn't have to be a professional networking group. It's communicating with people. It's letting people know what you're interested in and asking questions. Right? I mean, there's the old adage, you know, getting a job, it's who you know.
00:39:35:24 - 00:39:58:19
Clay & Joe
Well, the more people you know, the better your chances are. Right. So I there's definitely great advice. You know, you have to be outgoing, which I think, you know, in the past couple of years, really when the pandemic happened, I think, you know, technology is gained and we've had all these advances and it's kind of cut down on the I mean, we can network differently.
00:39:58:23 - 00:40:21:20
Clay & Joe
But as far as like the actual social interaction, face to face, it's imperative. And again, that's that's a really good message. I would say that that you brought out be outgoing, even if you're if it's not necessarily comfortable, you got to do it. You know, it's going to lead to good things down the road. I think the last thing I wanted to mention, you were talking about like the student body section and basketball and the K, it's really grown.
00:40:21:22 - 00:40:49:06
Clay & Joe
And immediately one of the things that went into my head was, I think it's Taylor University basketball. They do this thing called Silent Night. Have you seen that? It's I mean, ESPN used it. It was like once a year you would hear about Taylor basketball because of this game. And that was it. And it's insanity. But I remember I was like when I first saw it, I was going, Well, hey, if I'm looking at college, I might want to go to that game or see what that's like.
00:40:49:08 - 00:41:05:03
Clay & Joe
It's basically like, I don't know the exact details of it, but I think the game takes place at midnight and like for the first 5 minutes of the game, the entire crowd is silent. They don't make a sound. And then whenever like the 10th point is scored, they go nuts. They have to stop the game. The fans are out on the court.
00:41:05:03 - 00:41:23:04
Clay & Joe
They're thrown stream like it's it's insanity. But the just the idea of, you know, you're saying like a little student body section, you know, and somebody that can be creative and you can be outgoing can lead to that. And now you've got something that is, you know, once a year is on every news station or ESPN. It's pretty cool.
00:41:23:04 - 00:41:28:11
Clay & Joe
So I just wanted to mention that I don't know if you've seen that ever taken part in something like that, but it.
00:41:28:11 - 00:41:49:06
Darren
Was I think that's really cool. Yeah. And, you know, you get to know your school's traditions. I mean, Clay mentioned he's in Philadelphia. Well, what's better in college athletics than Saint Joseph's? Hock Like, to me, I think the fact that the minute the team takes the floor, that hawk starts flapping its wings. And the fact that it does not stop until the last player leaves at the end of the game.
00:41:49:08 - 00:42:15:03
Darren
What an unbelievable tradition. I mean, we're not talking about flying in Air Force. Has the Falcons or Auburn, We're not talking about I'm talking about the mascot. I'm funny. Is that. Yeah. And you really appreciate that at NCAA tournament time because they really promote the mascots. Right? Well, and I have a friend who went to a relative actually who went to NCAA basketball with me in San Jose.
00:42:15:09 - 00:42:35:05
Darren
His favorite mascots, the Oregon Ducks. I don't know if he can name two players in their program last year, but at the state tournament, he could not get his eyes fixated on the Oregon Ducks. It was absolute hilarity because you see with the refs, they're in timeouts. He's fooling around over there and he's running over there. And yeah, I mean, that's the tradition of it.
00:42:35:05 - 00:43:01:10
Darren
And and all the best and all the rest. And, you know, it's really fun when you're a part of it, too. We did this in 2010 when we played Wisconsin. And I'm not just saying that because my nephew goes there now, but you have many teams between the third and fourth quarter that play Wisconsin Now, who do the jump around like their whole student body does not the stadium that our whole team did it in 2010 on the sideline we were the visitors and it was a close game.
00:43:01:12 - 00:43:27:09
Darren
We did jump around. So I think that's the when you see those traditions and all that stuff, that's absolutely so much fun and it's so much a part of it. And if you're not someone who is fortunate to play at that level, appreciate those who can and, you know, keep it up athletically. Like I was a Greek at San Jose State as an undergrad and I played in a fraternity basketball was a lot of fun.
00:43:27:11 - 00:43:43:17
Darren
I, I felt pressure in those games like two or three years after I graduated high school that I hadn't had since I played in high school. Sure. And it was it was goofy news because playing in front of my peers and maybe I wait £10 more than I did, you know, my senior year or whatever. But, you know, that's that's what it's about.
00:43:43:17 - 00:44:17:05
Darren
So some of it will find you. But don't wait on that. Really be the active and adamant and in on our on Saturday states campus one of our most storied figures is crazy George who crazy with a K when if you're not familiar with George George Henderson he's a he's basically the inventor of the wave and when George was an undergrad at San Jose State, he would go to football games and he really didn't think that our cheerleaders and band were getting the crowd into the games, took it upon himself, brought a drum here we go, made a career out of it, and if you want to Google him, do it.
00:44:17:10 - 00:44:38:16
Darren
He's been hired by most major leagues and many teams within those leagues as a professional cheerleader and still is involved in some of our games. And basically the Oakland A's playoff game facilitated what was the first the first way. He's like, what if it's a coordinated effort of people standing up, you know, what some people hate now, right?
00:44:38:16 - 00:44:49:24
Darren
Which is like, no, I don't I don't want to be part of that. Amazing how many places still do it and how many people still still absorb that, which is a cool thing. Yeah.
00:44:50:01 - 00:45:08:22
Clay & Joe
So you got anything else before we we sign off today. So, yeah, I guess the last thing that kind of jumped out at me to just to, to I guess look at what you do and realize that probably no normal day or routine or age being the appointee on the committee for the playoff expansion, maybe not something you'd think that the personnel involved in ticketing has part of.
00:45:08:22 - 00:45:23:03
Clay & Joe
But obviously that's a huge part of this. So I know that's that's probably something that's changed a little bit in your world over the last few years and I guess speaks to the fact that there probably is no normal routine year to year for what you do know.
00:45:23:03 - 00:45:39:13
Darren
And I think, you know, I mentioned before, relationships are a big part of it. And I'll tell you a couple of things here as we as we wrap up here. Yeah, I mean, be knowledgeable about what you do and energetic about what you do can lead to those opportunities. And it was very flattering. I was the Mountain West employee.
00:45:39:15 - 00:45:58:21
Darren
I am the Mountain West comms appointee on the ticketing side. Every conference, plus Notre Dame has one representative on ticketing side for this expansion. And so we've met a few times and it's awesome. I mean, to think that starting in 24, I mean, this is coming, that it could be expanded and you could host the game on your campus and really special.
00:45:58:21 - 00:46:20:00
Darren
And so with those opportunities are really are really that and you know post-COVID I think I was always I've always been somebody who's energetic and trying to rally people like we're always at our basketball tournament, all the ticket directors at the same place every year. Why don't we meet and we start doing that for years and then post around COVID.
00:46:20:00 - 00:46:46:09
Darren
We did the same thing. These zooms were a regular occurrence where we were just checking in on each other and without getting too deep. Amazing how much they matter. Are our late colleague Russell Hayden of Fresno State actually passed away during COVID from cancer and no one knew that it had returned. We were seeing each other regularly and then we found out that he got really sick and had passed away, and I had to deliver the message to everyone else.
00:46:46:09 - 00:47:12:00
Darren
I wasn't on Zoom, I called everybody. But it's amazing bringing people together and having common interests or whatever. Look, Michigan's got 109,000 at a football game. We're going to have maybe in our stadium capacity with the new building. We're full at like 18 or 19. So you're talking about that. Does it mean that we don't have the same customer service issues?
00:47:12:00 - 00:47:33:15
Darren
Does it mean that we have the same historical venue issues or transportation or parking, whatever? Doesn't matter. All those things put people around you and rally people around you that that can really help you get to that common goal and you can really lean on each other and work together. And even in the hardest times, those relationships mattered more than they ever did.
00:47:33:19 - 00:47:53:04
Darren
Sure. You know, during COVID, we're quick guys. You know, we are on the ticket side. We became money managers, right? So, yeah, I'm from a reconciliation accounting perspective. Yeah, I'm audited. I have things that I have to report to to our CFO and into the campus. But you had people during that time that spent money and you're respectful of that.
00:47:53:10 - 00:48:16:16
Darren
But we were respectful of whatever their wishes were at that point for wherever, whenever we played a game, we had some of our highest donors that chose one of those three options. One, I know that we can donate it back to the department to help with Kobe testing, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, whatever. Extra years there was a COVID year.
00:48:16:16 - 00:48:40:22
Darren
So now kids in school longer, right? You had people that certainly wanted to roll it forward whenever we play it again, only respectful of that. And then you had people that with no explanation, could have asked for their money back. We're absolutely going to do that. So it's amazing. I mean, no one had ever seen anything like it before, but we all expanded our roles to match that and to respect whatever people's needs were.
00:48:40:23 - 00:49:05:18
Darren
I mean, we had donors on our campus that asked for refunds. I was going to ask them why or for what reason. I'm totally respectful and I knew that when we showed again, they would they would return. So, I mean, my thing, I guess my my final thoughts here are. Yeah, always prepare yourself for every situation. I don't think anyone ever thought that they would might have to socially distance their stadium based on rise and run of steps and rows and aisles.
00:49:05:22 - 00:49:31:11
Darren
Right. But it's funny like I went back to math. I'm a numbers game like okay rise versus run and you know those skills that you that you learn you're going to apply in anything you do. Like I said, academically I was a PR major. Maybe that's mostly related to media relations. No, all those communication writing experiences that I have have really helped me in what I do now.
00:49:31:11 - 00:49:46:17
Darren
It made me feel like I could be a good writer for something I need to present. It could help me talk to somebody maybe differently than I thought I would need to. And all that's important, vitally important. And it's all good.
00:49:46:19 - 00:50:11:08
Clay & Joe
Yeah. This was this is fantastic. I mean, some of the messages that you brought today and some of the advice for just general students and not even just all students, you know, the idea of being out, going find out what you like, pursue passions, ask questions, be outgoing, even some of the stuff on, you know, the internships and just I mean, really, really good stuff all across the board.
00:50:11:08 - 00:50:31:02
Clay & Joe
It's greatly appreciated. And yeah, my eyes even a little bit to, you know, to what goes on behind the scenes and how, you know, diverse the different job roles and different majors that you could have and still have a role, you know, in in, in athletics, whether it's professional or college, it's always great. So definitely, you know, be outgoing.
00:50:31:02 - 00:50:48:08
Clay & Joe
And I think my big takeaway is if this is something that you want to pursue, again, like we mentioned, when you visit a school or when you decide and we going start asking questions, you know, like Darren said, you don't want to be that third or fourth year saying, I wish I did this two or three years ago.
00:50:48:10 - 00:51:02:13
Clay & Joe
Definitely take advantage of that. Darren, thank you so much for joining us today. Greatly appreciate it. This was a ton of fun. My thanks for joining me and everybody. We will see you next week on our next episode of College. Now, it's. Thanks so much.
00:51:02:15 - 00:51:12:07
Speaker 1
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