121. Crafting Authentic and Standout College Essays: Insights for Admissions Success

Welcome to the "Crafting Authentic and Standout College Essays" podcast episode from the College Knowledge Podcast! In this engaging conversation, host Joe Kerins sits down with Ben, the owner of Real College Essays, for a deep dive into the world of college application essays.

Ben shares his inspiring journey from Australia to the United States, where he discovered a captivating story about Hollywood's interactions with Nazi Germany in the 1930s. This experience ignited his passion for helping students create meaningful college application essays that truly stand out.

Throughout the episode, you'll gain valuable insights on crafting authentic essays that reflect your unique experiences and identity. Ben's approach emphasizes the power of personal narratives over clichés and generic essays. Discover the importance of introspection, imagination, and storytelling in creating standout college essays that captivate admissions committees.

The conversation also touches on the challenges faced by high-achieving students and explores the potential impact of artificial intelligence in essay writing. However, it's a reminder that AI can't replicate the emotional depth and authenticity that make your essay truly personal.

Whether you're a student gearing up for college applications or a parent looking to support your child in this crucial journey, this podcast episode offers invaluable guidance and inspiration. Don't miss out on the wisdom shared by Ben and Joe as they unveil the secrets to crafting compelling college essays for admissions success.

Tune in now and embark on your path to creating essays that will make you stand out in the admissions process!

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Transcript

Hello, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of College Knowledge. I am your host today, Joe Kearns. Dave is out on a leadership conference, so I have the distinct pleasure of being with Ben Lauren. I think I got it right close, I think. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. But he's the owner of real college essays. Ben, Thank you so much for being with us today.

00;01;09;29 - 00;01;25;12
Speaker 2
Looking forward to this conversation. I think there's going to be very knowledgeable, especially for a lot of our parents and seniors that are still writing, maybe writing those essays or critiquing them a little bit. So I think this is a great time of the year to to have this discussion. Thanks for being on.

00;01;25;14 - 00;01;29;22
Speaker 3
That's my pleasure. It definitely is busy season right now, but it's promise.

00;01;29;24 - 00;01;48;24
Speaker 2
Yes, without a doubt. And I'm going to get to that. That's definitely going to be one of the questions about like procrastination on the essay and it's almost October and is is too late. But we'll get there. We'll get there. So then, you know, always want to know a little bit back story about how you got to where you are.

00;01;48;24 - 00;02;01;04
Speaker 2
So. Walk us through your journey, you know, where did you go to college? What was your essay like? Did you realize throughout your time that, hey, maybe I could have done better, But what was your journey like to get to where you're at today?

00;02;01;09 - 00;02;26;03
Speaker 3
Actually, it's kind of ironic because I'm originally from Australia and I never have to write a college essay to get into college. That system doesn't exist. You it's purely based on grades. Very systematic process. But I did write and application essay to get into grad school. I went to the and did my Ph.D. in history. I was at the University of Chicago for my master's before that.

00;02;26;06 - 00;02;56;27
Speaker 3
So I spent most of my education and most of my life actually, in the United States. Okay. And then I wrote a book, which was my dissertation, but it became a book. And that was quite a story. It was about how I was a history PhD student. And I basically discovered in Germany archives that Hollywood studios were corresponding with the Nazis in the 1930s and actually doing business with Nazi Germany.

00;02;56;29 - 00;03;22;15
Speaker 3
And I found that Hollywood was actually selling hundreds of movies to the Nazis all through the 1930s. Mm hmm. This wasn't really known, or at least the scale of the interaction between the heads and the Nazis wasn't known. And so I set out to uncover everything I could find in the archives to retell the story of what the relationship was between Hollywood and the Nazis in the 1930.

00;03;22;19 - 00;03;44;29
Speaker 3
There are other stories about other companies that did business with the Nazis, like false photos. But Hollywood had not come up, so. I thought it was an exciting it was a really exciting journey for me to do that. It was pure discovery. I had to really refresh my German and I went to the archives day after day for years and got to tell the story.

00;03;45;01 - 00;04;08;14
Speaker 3
And I sort of related in my mind to what I'm doing these days because writing a story like that, telling a story that isn't told, something that gets people's attention is really what you need to do when you write a college essay. Because college offices are college admissions officers, you know, it's hard to overestimate. They are looking at so many applications.

00;04;08;15 - 00;04;34;09
Speaker 3
Mm hmm. And they don't have very long. You really can grab the reader if someone is reading hundreds of applications and then they come across one that just looks a bit different from the others, it really makes a big impact, but it's very hard. And so I think those two things, I was always interested in trying to grab the reader, grab an audience, get people's attention, not for the sake of it.

00;04;34;09 - 00;04;47;24
Speaker 3
I wanted to tell something that was very sure, but if you really do that work and you tell a story that is important and interesting, people are going to pay attention. Yeah. And so that's the connection. That's how I see it anyway.

00;04;47;26 - 00;05;03;01
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we could go through a whole, I think, another episode about what you just mentioned, you know, because I always I've told many people, you know, especially my my youngest brother, that history is written by those that one.

00;05;03;03 - 00;05;03;29
Speaker 3
Mm hmm.

00;05;04;02 - 00;05;21;21
Speaker 2
And meaning, you know what? You know, and what you read can be a lot of things can be hidden, you know, And it's kind of the people that win are the ones who decide on what actually gets published and things like that. And so I could go on and on about what you wrote about. You already say you got it.

00;05;21;21 - 00;05;37;12
Speaker 2
There you go. Like, that's that. You grabbed me. I'm like, all right. I don't I don't want to go down that rabbit hole, Dad, you know, because we're not here to talk about it. But but very interesting. And then so I'm just interested. So you. So your undergrad was in Australia, and then you came to the US after that?

00;05;37;13 - 00;05;56;18
Speaker 3
Well, my undergrad was at the University of Sydney in Australia. Okay. But my junior year was at UC Berkeley. Okay. Was one of the, you know, one of the early exchange programs. Okay. I took all these graduate seminars. I was precocious and I took all these classes that were way more advanced than what I was meant to be taking.

00;05;56;21 - 00;06;16;29
Speaker 3
Mm hmm. Made some connections to professors, and I realized that was. I really wanted to get a Ph.D.. Yeah. I ended up applying and. And then moving to the US for grad school, so I'm really way more familiar with the U.S. educational system. Okay. But I did. I did three years in Australia before I moved here. Okay.

00;06;17;01 - 00;06;24;20
Speaker 2
I was going to ask how how different is the education system? But I don't know, at least nowadays, I don't know if we can speak to it or not.

00;06;24;20 - 00;06;43;17
Speaker 3
But yeah, they're very different. I mean, and also Mike's my experience is specific. I went to Berkeley and I think but I had I think I got an incredible education and I think it's it's an incredible university. There was nothing like that in Australia that just doesn't exist. But of course, Berkeley is a representative of all the universities.

00;06;43;17 - 00;06;46;11
Speaker 3
And sure, it's the mixture specific.

00;06;46;13 - 00;06;48;15
Speaker 2
Yeah. And then you were at Chicago, correct?

00;06;48;20 - 00;06;55;22
Speaker 3
Is it Chicago for one year? I got my master's in film studies at the. Okay. Yeah, that was great.

00;06;55;25 - 00;07;01;00
Speaker 2
And do you know differences between those universities? What were some of the things that stood out to you?

00;07;01;02 - 00;07;23;29
Speaker 3
There are a lot of differences between them. Sure. Yeah. I mean, the weather is the big one. Okay. You know, my memories of the University of Chicago were sitting in Frankenstein library absolutely freezing outside. You couldn't go outside. And it was, you know, there were these kind of cafeterias inside the library. You could eat inside. Mm hmm. A lot of friends.

00;07;23;29 - 00;07;48;27
Speaker 3
It was a really great bonding time. But my memories of Berkeley are sitting out on the grass in the sunshine Read. Sure. Yeah, it's it's. It's a much more laid back atmosphere. But they're both very serious schools, even though Berkeley's laid back. Very serious. But they're. They're very different. I think my year at Chicago was the most intense year in terms of just getting worked on it.

00;07;48;27 - 00;07;51;19
Speaker 3
It was a very intense place. Yeah.

00;07;51;22 - 00;08;12;14
Speaker 2
So, I mean, the story, you kind of you know, you're telling me, again, history. You know, it's kind of the story we typically would hear if somebody goes to become a professor. You know, you start started writing. So when did the switch have I mean, is that the direction that you were originally planning on going was to more teach or was it always writing?

00;08;12;14 - 00;08;19;25
Speaker 2
And how does all of a sudden, you know, you're studying history lead to guidance on college essays? How did that come about?

00;08;19;27 - 00;08;43;18
Speaker 3
Yeah, I, I always loved working individually with students, so I took on a class on Hollywood, but it was the class, the history seniors who were writing this senior thesis. Mm hmm. So I met with them as a group, but mostly that was me advising one and one studying the thesis. And I, over the course of a few years, I based 30 students, which is quite a lot.

00;08;43;25 - 00;09;07;17
Speaker 3
And I found that that one on one work was really rewarding for me. I would say I don't think I knew what I wanted to do when I first set out. All right. I love writing and I discovered as soon as I started at Berkeley that I loved teaching. I loved that combination, and I sort of established a kind of routine where I would wake up and write.

00;09;07;20 - 00;09;30;23
Speaker 3
Mm hmm. You know, all morning and early afternoon and then I would teach after that. And I did that all through my Ph.D. That was how I wrote my Ph.D., which became my book. And those two things kind of worked together. And it was it was just a great, very rewarding kind of routine I would write. And that's, you know, it was like one me exercising one muscle.

00;09;30;23 - 00;09;57;07
Speaker 3
And then I would take one or the other. And I guess I was never that interested in the side of academia, the administrative side of academia. That doesn't play to my strengths. Yeah. Sitting on committees and just honing, you know, policies of universities, that wasn't what I wanted to do. But I but I really do like first and foremost, like, say, I'm a writer and I put in time for that.

00;09;57;07 - 00;10;14;28
Speaker 3
So, so I love I still write every morning and I'm working on projects, I'm working on my next book and I spend, you know, a full day teaching after that. So in a way, there's a lot of continuity there, I would say. Okay.

00;10;15;01 - 00;10;22;15
Speaker 2
When was the, uh, the first time that you help somebody specifically with a college application essay that.

00;10;22;21 - 00;10;46;14
Speaker 3
I started doing it in 2016. Okay. I didn't set out to. I was doing some tutoring and I had some clients, and one of them was applying to college, and I started working with him when he was a junior. Then when he's a senior, he was applying to college, and I realized that that was way more fulfilling for me than just regular tutoring.

00;10;46;17 - 00;10;50;29
Speaker 3
And so then I started specializing and pretty soon got it.

00;10;51;02 - 00;10;54;22
Speaker 2
All right. And then real college essays. When did that become established?

00;10;54;24 - 00;11;16;23
Speaker 3
So that is only this past year. Okay, I'm doing it know six or seven years now. But I decided at a certain point that it was time to put my policy down, my my philosophy of college essays, because I find that the way I approach it is pretty different from other people. Okay? And I thought it was time to formalize that and.

00;11;16;26 - 00;11;20;18
Speaker 3
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00;11;20;20 - 00;11;34;27
Speaker 2
And when you're talking about, you know, maybe something that's a little bit different. What do you mean? What kind of what practices or what is it that you're just talking about there that does you look at things a little bit differently than everyone else? What is it that makes you stand out?

00;11;35;00 - 00;12;05;25
Speaker 3
Well, I think one of the most dangerous things students can do when they're applying to college is to read collections of essays that worked with them on the Internet or, you know, sometimes their books, sometimes their blogs, Sometimes people post them on TikTok, whatever. Sure. Yeah. That's the usual way people approach college essays. Mm hmm. Including a lot of people who try to help you with colleges.

00;12;05;29 - 00;12;42;18
Speaker 3
Sure. Yeah. I find that approach to be really dangerous to students because what they do first, they're already extremely anxious about the whole process, of course. And second, no, I us high school senior of virtually no us high school senior has written a personal essay before that analytical essay that's the education your essay again this was different in Australia we did right right So suddenly you have to write this all important essay and it has to be a personalized like you've never done that before.

00;12;42;20 - 00;13;07;01
Speaker 3
You're extremely anxious. Everyone's telling you this is going to determine the rest of your life. And people go and read these essays and they're like, Oh, I have to copy this exact worst thing you can do. Because if if college admissions, a lot of admissions officers are looking for something that strikes them as a bit different, that captures their attention, the last thing they want to read is what everyone else has written before, right?

00;13;07;03 - 00;13;28;02
Speaker 3
Sure. Maybe if you read those kinds of essays, I think what happens, a couple of things happen. But the main thing is everyone thinks you have to write something really clever, something that just sounds clever and and is written in a sort of creative way. But I don't think the way most high schoolers end up writing it is not creative.

00;13;28;04 - 00;14;00;02
Speaker 3
It's what they think is creative. Sure, they just want like a gimmick or something catchy that they think will capture admissions. But I think when admissions officers see that stuff, they kind of roll their eyes or groan because I've seen a but and my approach is not to tell you to look at what everyone else has done. I believe every single person out there has a story that they can tell and a unique story that can grab people's attention.

00;14;00;04 - 00;14;18;09
Speaker 3
I don't think they've been given this the skills to work out, to identify the story, to work out how to structure that story. Mm hmm. But if they do get those skills, they can tell their own story, and it's going to be way more impactful than a copy. Anyone else? Yeah, I know.

00;14;18;11 - 00;14;39;08
Speaker 2
Yeah, I know. If Day was here, he always quotes that the best college essay he ever read. The first words were. I remember the first time I held a human brain and then it went into this student story about why they want to become a neurosurgeon. And they're like, And it was because of a younger sibling that had issues.

00;14;39;08 - 00;14;56;11
Speaker 2
And really, but again, told a great story. I still remember what I'm going to get. I'm not in the emotion side, but one of my favorites. And when you first read the title, you go on and you might not want to do this, but it turned out that it told a great story was how Madden Football saved my life.

00;14;56;13 - 00;15;27;14
Speaker 2
And it was a student with Asperger's that had trouble socializing and turned this video game into the way that he was able to interact with others. But then started a club at school, became the president. Drew We created a charitable organization to like, okay, so here's a video and here's what I did with here's my story, how he became a leader and how I get tracked at other people to, you know, have a goal in mind with I was like, hey, this this jumps out the page for me, you know?

00;15;27;16 - 00;15;32;05
Speaker 2
So again, I mean, that's those are the that there's the one always sticks out to me. I know that's the one I always say. So I think.

00;15;32;05 - 00;15;54;28
Speaker 3
The reason they stick out to you first, the first one has a good hook. The first is stands out. Grab your attention. But both of those essays, I think, stand out to you because first they do a good job at it, but more importantly, they're authentic, trying to be someone they're not. Correct. Talking about his dream, being a brain surgeon, you know.

00;15;55;02 - 00;16;18;12
Speaker 3
Right. That maybe he won't be a brain surgeon, who knows? But he definitely believes that he wants to do that right now. Mm hmm. And and that is a much better approach than coming up with something that you think is what other people want to hear. Yeah. So other people want to hear. You have to think about your journey, your experience.

00;16;18;15 - 00;16;34;16
Speaker 3
And that isn't as easy as it sounds. Mm hmm. What they want to be. But I'd say most people don't. The people who know what they want to be, it's a bit easier to work out. You know what they say it's going to be about still. Just because you know what you want to be doesn't mean you've thought about it in any.

00;16;34;18 - 00;16;49;26
Speaker 3
Sure, You know, so you still have to be able to explain. It doesn't really matter what the topic is. If you demonstrate that you've thought about it and you have some interesting take on it. But it does have to be it does have to be authentic.

00;16;49;29 - 00;17;10;28
Speaker 2
Yeah. And I that's that's one thing that I've always try. And again, I'm not an expert in this area, but I've always used that the definition of fluff. Right. You're you're creating this essay that is not genuine. It's you're filling it with fluff that you think someone else wants to read. And the advice that I've given, you know, it's I would say it's free advice.

00;17;10;28 - 00;17;23;21
Speaker 2
And I did I started to give this before I really became interactive with the college planning network. I said, parents, take your your child's essay, go to work. Somebody, a coworker that doesn't really know who your child is.

00;17;23;23 - 00;17;24;12
Speaker 3
Right.

00;17;24;15 - 00;17;45;14
Speaker 2
And ask them, hey, can you take 5 minutes to read this and then tell me who you think? Like, what do you think of the person and if who they read back is not your child because you know them, then you know that it was filled with fluff. They were right. It wasn't genuine. If they come back and they give you their response and who they think wrote this essay and what they're like, you're like, Man, that's my kid.

00;17;45;17 - 00;18;02;07
Speaker 2
They probably nailed it. You know, probably some critique still, but it's kind of like, go go through that exercise of writing an essay, give it to a stranger, and then get their feedback, which is kind of what the process almost is. Now you're you're dealing with an admissions officer, not a stranger. A little bit different.

00;18;02;09 - 00;18;30;09
Speaker 3
A little, but someone who reads it and thinks about it and who has nothing to do with it is going to be able to give their opinion, right? It's usually going to be correct. Um, I would say just as often as, as you mentioned, sometimes you'll read it and it doesn't sound like your kid, right. I think often an even bigger problem and a more common problem is I read an essay and I don't hear anyone in the essay.

00;18;30;09 - 00;18;46;11
Speaker 3
I don't have a sense of who the person is. You're saying a lot of cliches and saying things that they've heard and they don't realize that, but then they just need to be themselves. Yeah, they're not really being anyone because they're sort of writing in any.

00;18;46;11 - 00;18;47;02
Speaker 2
True.

00;18;47;05 - 00;19;13;03
Speaker 3
Love. But it's it's the number of times I've heard certain expressions in essays. Mm hmm. And on top of that, often what people will do is they will they won't actually tell you what their experience is. They'll just start interpreting their experience right, explaining what it was. And so they'll something like this I grew more than I ever grew before, and I realized I was going to be okay.

00;19;13;05 - 00;19;31;11
Speaker 3
I didn't will say that, but they weren't saying what actually happened before that. So you don't get a sense of who the person is if they actually describe what they went through. Sometimes the basics stuff of just telling us what your experience was, that's gold if you can actually. But you're like, Oh, that's not what I meant to be doing.

00;19;31;14 - 00;19;51;12
Speaker 2
Right? And as far, I mean, how much thought has to go into this? And, you know, I alluded to this earlier that, you know, it's crunch time and this is when a lot of stress comes out there has to be a lot of thought preparation. You know, we tried to help kids kind of saying, hey, is earliest freshman year.

00;19;51;12 - 00;20;11;04
Speaker 2
Like it's almost like this diary. Like how what happened this past year, what happened in the summer, what happened in the school year, Because you might use some of that in an essay. But in your world, how early do you think is appropriate to really start drafting and really get into the college essay process? How late is too late?

00;20;11;04 - 00;20;14;02
Speaker 2
How early is too early? What's your experience with that?

00;20;14;05 - 00;20;43;24
Speaker 3
Yeah, we're right on the cusp right now. So it's you know, it's about in mid-September. If you're applying early to to places that's going to be November one that gives you six weeks dry a coming up essay and also some a supplemental for each school year applying so you can do it it's oh, I don't recommend it. This is how I put it to my students or to people I speak to.

00;20;43;26 - 00;21;04;02
Speaker 3
Mm hmm. You've spent four years on it. If you if you think about what admissions officers look at when you apply, they look you. They look at your S.A.T. or A.C.T., and those would be the most important things. And then they'll look your essay, which is not quite at that level, but still important. But those would be the three main things that you're looking at now.

00;21;04;02 - 00;21;30;14
Speaker 3
You spend four years on your GPA and probably six months working on your essay. Take that probably average for people. Really serious. Yeah, you get tutoring, you take courses, you take so many practice tests and then the essay comes to September and it's like, I'll just write my contract essay now. Yeah, it's not a good idea because it's a third of your application.

00;21;30;14 - 00;21;50;28
Speaker 3
Maybe not quite a third, but close to a third and treating it as an afterthought. So I think that's a huge mistake. And I think the essays, even if it isn't as important as your GPA in a setting, it is much it's the underestimated part of the application. Sure, if you want to make the most difference to your chances, it is worth on that essay.

00;21;50;28 - 00;22;14;09
Speaker 3
Really hard, I think. I think if you start thinking about it in the summer before, that's fine. That'll give you enough time. But I think I'm going to be getting calls all through October. I mean, I get calls every day from people telling me, telling me today it's true. Yeah. You know, and you know, I can't do that because I have other students.

00;22;14;09 - 00;22;27;25
Speaker 3
But you're you know, you're not doing yourself any favors if you approach it that way, right? You don't need to be crazy about it, but you do need to start thinking about it. I think in the summer. Yeah.

00;22;27;27 - 00;22;57;27
Speaker 2
And you know, you talk about GPA, S.A.T. essay while 2020 comes COVID hits and now the S.A.T. becomes optional. And now a lot of schools have not gone back to having it being required. And so almost every admissions officer that we've talked to said, well, if you don't submit your SAT score, it's we're just going to wait everything else, you know, accordingly, like, hey, if that made up 50%, we've got 50% we now have to spread out.

00;22;57;27 - 00;23;18;28
Speaker 2
Well, the essay is obviously a big factor because even a GPA, well GPA, one school might not be the same. It might be the same number as in other school. But the course rigor that the school's history, you know, it might not hold as much weight, whereas the SAT was kind of like, hey, this is it's for everybody.

00;23;18;28 - 00;23;38;12
Speaker 2
Like, I can gauge certain things off of different students based on this score and so have you seen any changes, you know, in your world? Have you been surprised in the past few years with applicants and, hey, having a strong essay maybe has better outcomes? Have you seen any of that happen in the past few years?

00;23;38;14 - 00;24;11;01
Speaker 3
I have a student who got rejected early from Barnard and didn't have a good coming up essay and then came to me and and we worked on a completely different coming up essay and the next thing she knew, she was waitlisted at Harvard. He didn't get in but yeah waitlisted at Harvard is sure not an date. Yeah and nothing was different about her application other than the essay.

00;24;11;03 - 00;24;31;14
Speaker 3
Yeah. So I have seen things like that happen. I'm curious to see how it evolves in the next few years, but that I do definitely see a major impact on students applications when they write in a good essay. Mm hmm.

00;24;31;16 - 00;24;37;10
Speaker 2
Yeah. And can we can we agree that an essay right now shouldn't be about your experience with COVID? Yeah.

00;24;37;12 - 00;24;59;00
Speaker 3
Oh, well, there is. I mean, there's a COVID obsessed state that you can talk about. It's okay. Coming up, you should you could mention it if it plays a part. It should not be your essay. Can't be about COVID. Obviously, it's not going to work for anyone. But if COVID plays a part in your story, sure, mention it.

00;24;59;02 - 00;25;16;09
Speaker 3
You know, maybe it made something worse. Maybe it made something that you're struggling with impossible. That's fine. But that you should you should you need to write about something that makes you different. And yeah, write about COVID again, it goes back to my original point. You're writing about what makes you just like everyone.

00;25;16;09 - 00;25;26;03
Speaker 1
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00;25;26;05 - 00;25;57;01
Speaker 2
Sure. Yeah. That's no joke because when you're speaking of that, it was I forget who we spoke with Niall but is this was last year or two years ago I wish I remember but it was an admissions offer officer and he said please do not write an essay about your experience with COVID. Everyone struggled with it. You're not you are not making yourself look any different if that's what you're writing about, like which goes home, you want to stand out, you want to jump off the page, you want to be different.

00;25;57;01 - 00;26;24;15
Speaker 2
You really want to show. So I think the other thing that and I'm curious about your take on this, because I've had differences of opinion from some different people that are in admissions processes where there are sometimes students make a mistake in their essay that they're trying to be the jack of all trades. They're trying to check so many boxes to kind of show like, I'm this, I could be everything.

00;26;24;17 - 00;26;47;05
Speaker 2
And then there's other students. This is who I am. Take it or leave it. Like either, you know, I put on the paper, this is who I am. And the school looks at that and says, You're a great fit for this school or you're not. But students are sometimes afraid with that. And I've heard differences from admissions office because sometimes they are looking for that student that might check multiple boxes and other times they are looking for that person.

00;26;47;05 - 00;27;09;02
Speaker 2
It's very direct to the point. Essentially what jumps out is this is who I am. Do you want me? And I'm just curious about those because again, I don't accept students. That's not my role. But I know that there definitely can be some downsides to, again, trying to put on paper something you're not, but you're trying to check boxes again that not that genuine essay.

00;27;09;04 - 00;27;10;11
Speaker 3
But how do.

00;27;10;11 - 00;27;23;16
Speaker 2
You look at that? Do you want to try and basically say, this is who I am or is it is there some strategy with, you know, kind of portraying yourself as something that is someone who is adaptable or, you know, kind of.

00;27;23;16 - 00;27;24;19
Speaker 3
Uh, is.

00;27;24;19 - 00;27;26;02
Speaker 2
There any any it's.

00;27;26;04 - 00;27;47;28
Speaker 3
Yeah, I definitely think the answer is that you should you should say who you are and you shouldn't be trying to checkboxes. Okay. Students who check boxes and write essays that have a lot of. So all these different things they do they will get into top schools probably they're getting into top schools on the basis of their essays.

00;27;47;28 - 00;28;08;07
Speaker 3
I do think some schools on the basis of their safety and GPA. Yeah, if you have a perfect S.A.T. and an amazing GPA and you have a long list of extracurricular activities and you're doing all sorts of things that demonstrate that you are really going to get somewhere well into top schools, you might not write a very good essay.

00;28;08;09 - 00;28;36;21
Speaker 3
I think to write a good essay, you need to have a point. You can't just say you do everything. And this actually, you remind me of something I noticed, and I don't know if other people have brought this up. I actually think often that top students have more trouble with the essay than regular students. And I think the reason is because they're trying to show off everything they've done and try to list all their achievements.

00;28;36;23 - 00;29;02;24
Speaker 3
And they're missing the point of writing a college essay. And they're so used to sort of this spirit of accomplishment. They make their essay about that, and that isn't what impresses anyone when you read an essay. I think the point of the essay is to write, and I think admissions officers would have to agree. The point is to write something that is different from what you see in the rest of the application.

00;29;02;27 - 00;29;28;05
Speaker 3
Being to reiterate all your extracurricular activities that's in the application. You don't need to boast about what great grades you've gotten all through high school that's already in the application. You can write really anything, but you can demonstrate. If you can do it well, that's then going to be a really important part of your application. So I think the answer is pretty clear.

00;29;28;07 - 00;29;48;04
Speaker 3
I don't think if you cover a whole lot of ground, you're putting your best foot forward in the I think to stand out on the page. And and I think very often when you look at students who got into, say, Harvard and you say, look at the essay that got them into Harvard, it wasn't the essay that got them.

00;29;48;04 - 00;29;52;13
Speaker 3
It's right there. I got it.

00;29;52;16 - 00;30;04;27
Speaker 2
So I know students always struggle with the what should I write about? And I think part of the sometimes the struggle with those students that are phenomenal students.

00;30;05;00 - 00;30;05;13
Speaker 3
Right.

00;30;05;13 - 00;30;24;29
Speaker 2
Is it's the simple fact that they are hard workers. Right. And they study and they put in the time. And that's I mean, look, the some of them can be gifted and things come naturally. And, you know, it's it's to them, it's not necessarily always that there was some type of adversity that they had to overcome to get these great grades.

00;30;25;05 - 00;30;48;15
Speaker 2
Yeah. You know, they didn't push themselves, you know, too hard. Or even if they tried to push themselves, things just worked out because of their work ethic. And so sometimes they struggle with, well, what do I write about? Like I did good in school, I worked really hard. There wasn't this life changing adversity I had to overcome. What the heck could I write about?

00;30;48;15 - 00;31;11;02
Speaker 2
You know, I know that the narrative and the ideas of how to put yourself on page is never easy for anyone. But what if you have something that feels like they're vanilla? They don't have that story that could make them jump off the page. I'm sure that everybody could figure it out if they put the time in right on how to make themselves jump.

00;31;11;02 - 00;31;27;22
Speaker 2
But I think that's part of the thing that some of those students with great grades essentially do struggle with. So how how do you help students try to figure out, like the narrative of what they should be writing as their essay? Is there any exercise you essentially take them through before pen even meets paper?

00;31;27;24 - 00;31;52;21
Speaker 3
Oh, yeah. I mean, it's not an exercise. The early sessions when I meet with a student, we're not doing any writing. If we're doing writing early on that something's wrong. Okay? You have to think before you write so early sessions of back and forth. I'm asking questions. I don't have a set of questions. I really go by instinct and just ask the student when they say something interesting.

00;31;52;21 - 00;32;20;01
Speaker 3
Then I push them in that direction. What I always do is I'll start by asking if they've had any significant challenge. That is unusual. That isn't what everyone experiences, and probably about 30 to 40%, maybe 40% will have something and that will probably be what they're going to write their essay on. So I'll answer prompt two of the common out and they'll talk about a challenge, how they overcame it, what steps they took, how it affected them, what they learned from the process.

00;32;20;03 - 00;32;44;06
Speaker 3
Mm hmm. That's sort of obvious. An obvious place to go. Some students will have a challenge and they won't want to talk about it, and that's perfectly fine. But about, like I say, 30 to 40% will go in that direction. That leaves the rest. Yeah. I always ask is the impossible question, which is, okay, you don't you haven't had a challenge, an unusual challenge in your life.

00;32;44;09 - 00;33;15;11
Speaker 3
But what about your life is unusual. It can be good. It can be bad, it can be neutral. Just something that isn't what everyone else has experienced. Sometimes that leads to an immediate answer. Sometimes it takes an hour. But we just start talking and brainstorming and I push them when I hear the spark of something. So, for example, I have a student this year is had a perfectly great upbringing.

00;33;15;11 - 00;33;40;08
Speaker 3
He has had no challenges, really does great in school, lots of friends, well-adjusted kid, and we just started talking and I said, Well, what do you like doing? And he said, Well, I'm a musician. And I said, Well, what you know what? What kind of music do places I play violin in an orchestra? Mm hmm. Nothing that unusual.

00;33;40;12 - 00;34;01;29
Speaker 3
Many students play violin. And I was like, Well, let's just talk about your music for a while. And we started talking and he said, Yeah. He paused. And when they close, you know that they're thinking, Oh, sure, yeah, yeah. Long silence. And he said, you know, when I go to the movies, I love soundtracks and I love listening to soundtracks because I love old soundtracks.

00;34;01;29 - 00;34;24;22
Speaker 3
But what I really love that new soundtracks where you hear motifs for different characters. And I've actually noticed that when I go to the movies, I can close my eyes and I can imagine what's happening just by listening to the soundtrack. And I can actually work out the plot by listening to movies. And so basically what he's saying is he doesn't watch movies, he listens to them.

00;34;24;24 - 00;34;46;05
Speaker 3
Yeah, Super interesting. Sure. Why do you think you do that? And he said, Well, I think I just noticed things sometimes that other people don't notice because it's more interesting. And eventually we realize this, this whole learning style. Yeah, and that's interesting. And yeah, that's not a challenge that he's like, sure, you know, it's not a challenge at all.

00;34;46;05 - 00;35;08;09
Speaker 3
It's just something that's a bit different that led us into his character. Yeah, look, a lot of work we have to talk for multiple sessions before we really worked it out. Sure. And then rewriting the essay, it took some time. Yeah, but by the end, he's got a tremendous essay on his hands because no one says I don't watch movies.

00;35;08;09 - 00;35;12;25
Speaker 3
I listen to them. Right? Yeah. Well.

00;35;12;27 - 00;35;19;28
Speaker 2
Yeah. And with that now, is he a student that is looking to pursue music? Is that important with that?

00;35;20;01 - 00;35;49;09
Speaker 3
Okay, I don't think you need to know. He's looking into whatever. Doesn't matter. Okay. Yeah. Making an impact on the page is essay distinctive and, you know, he's got great grades. He's got. Yeah. Test scores that his essay will make him stand out You don't sure if you can connect that to a future career in a way that is a hack you know if you're doing it just anyone is going to be able to see from a mile off.

00;35;49;10 - 00;36;18;06
Speaker 3
You're just trying to connect something. Obviously, if you can't, you shouldn't do it. You should just present an essay that describes something about you that's unusual, that grabs his attention. I think what's going to make the biggest difference in eventual admissions decisions? Mm hmm. Because it's like the equivalent of getting a perfect S.A.T.. It's a really good essay, and no amount of strategizing is as important as just putting in a good essay.

00;36;18;12 - 00;36;38;07
Speaker 3
I would also say one other thing, which and and I think this relates to what I was saying earlier about how top students often have trouble with the essay. I think the essay draws on a totally different skill set to any other part of the application. So if you want to improve your essay to just take in 100 tests, it will improve.

00;36;38;07 - 00;36;58;21
Speaker 3
Yes, I can improve your GPA. Just what really hard at school and you're great is not got you would think for the essay you just have to work really really really hard and you do have to work hard. But that not in the same way. So you have to stop and you have to take a breath and you have done your life.

00;36;58;23 - 00;37;15;07
Speaker 3
Storytelling doesn't work with just like intensity and hard work. You have to pause and reflect and be open. And so it really requires a completely different skill set to every other part of the application. Yeah, which I find fascinating. That's why I enjoy doing this. Yeah. Yeah.

00;37;15;08 - 00;37;24;07
Speaker 2
And again, I think that, you know, the big piece that has jumped out to me just with that story, you know, I listen to movies, I don't watch them.

00;37;24;09 - 00;37;24;27
Speaker 3
Well.

00;37;24;29 - 00;37;42;20
Speaker 2
Again, if you're writing an essay that has essentially here's my standard, here's my brag sheet with all my accomplishments, here's my GPA, here's my SAT score, here's everything else on the, you know, extracurriculars. I want to talk about something that you don't see over there and tells me about who they are. And now if you're okay, you're going to get study stem.

00;37;42;22 - 00;37;50;00
Speaker 2
Well, I think a lot of you look at that and you say, well, this is a child or this is I say child. This is a student, a young man.

00;37;50;02 - 00;37;51;11
Speaker 3
Who.

00;37;51;14 - 00;38;11;03
Speaker 2
Kind of like looks at the world a little bit differently. That might be an interesting person to bring in, especially if they're stuck. I mean, isn't that what science is potentially is all about? Like when you talk about the different STEM fields, it's not always that you got to follow. No, you kind of want to be someone that sees things in a little bit of a different way.

00;38;11;03 - 00;38;29;25
Speaker 2
And that was a perfect way of establishing that. Like, I think that jumps off the page. And again, I'm not in that industry, but yeah, that definitely makes you unique. Yea, okay, wait, I listen to movies, I don't watch them. Well, does that have anything to do with me studying in STEM? No, but it the way I think might be different than everybody else.

00;38;29;25 - 00;38;33;04
Speaker 2
Well bang did it and got job accomplished. You know.

00;38;33;09 - 00;39;04;02
Speaker 3
From my advisor at U.C. Berkeley who said he said that I value imaginative imagination. He saw me as mountain native and he he said, despite the fact that he you know, he studied African-American history, very rigorous, very analytical approach, he said, you know, the most important quality in historian is imagination. MM hmm. It's not what you would think, but it's the it's it's the same as perception in a scientist or imagination.

00;39;04;02 - 00;39;27;08
Speaker 3
In a scientist, someone saw it differently. You know, other people don't notice. They might ask questions that lead them to discover something. Otherwise no one else would have discovered. Sure, it's a little bit different. Of course, you need someone to have, you know, the skills in their field of science, But there's something a bit beyond that that leads to, you know.

00;39;27;10 - 00;39;32;19
Speaker 3
Yeah. Which even a true discovery. And I think I think people recognize that.

00;39;32;21 - 00;40;00;18
Speaker 2
So one of the questions I want to ask, obviously we've we've covered a lot of things that mistakes that have happened and some really good examples. But I wanted to go back to the example you brought up about the student that didn't get into Barnard and he got waitlisted at Harvard and you helped change the essay. What were some of the things that was it, that it was just too generic begin with and you helped really to, you know, reach that stand out and make it more personal, make it more unique.

00;40;00;18 - 00;40;20;21
Speaker 2
What what essentially did you help that student with? And how can parents take that as kind of a lesson learned on, hey, this was one student, same GPA, same application result, a result be something changed in there. What did you help guide with that? Also, parents could potentially say, Hey, this is something I might have to take notes on.

00;40;20;24 - 00;40;50;12
Speaker 3
That was a completely different type of student. Mm hmm. He had had a father who died quite young and was quite a well-known doctor in the area. I can't remember his specialty. And he treated patients from all income levels. And when he died, there were, you know, hundreds of people at his funeral that he grew up kind of in his shadow.

00;40;50;12 - 00;41;12;24
Speaker 3
She'd been told she knew about him when she was very young. He'd met, you know, that he died when she was quite young and he knew she wanted to be a doctor. He'd written a generic essay about wanting to be a doctor and met her. I started asking her, you know, about her father, and she teared up and he hadn't really gone there in her essay.

00;41;12;24 - 00;41;40;12
Speaker 3
She didn't look comfortable talking about her feelings about her father, her feelings about why she wanted to go into medicine and how deep that went. And as a result, when she'd written an essay, he'd written some generic stuff about always wanting to be a doctor. But she hadn't gone there. He hadn't talked about the difficult stuff. So we spent a few at least two sessions just talking about what her experience was.

00;41;40;12 - 00;42;04;23
Speaker 3
And it was it was a really interesting story, and I understood how her father had made this deep impression on her and how he'd sort of seen her life path from a very young age. And she's very sensitive and really knew she wanted to do that, but hadn't gotten in touch with the feelings. So we got in touch with the feelings.

00;42;04;26 - 00;42;24;27
Speaker 3
And then once we got in touch with the feelings and worked out what she actually thought about all this and thought about all this, then we had to put it on the page. So I think in my role is sometimes it's almost like a therapist. It's it's bringing out someone's experience and feelings, but it's not like a therapist in the sense I'm not treating anyone.

00;42;24;27 - 00;42;52;02
Speaker 3
I'm just trying to get the story out and then become a writing coach and help them get that story out. I think it's really gratifying for students, for example, to finally be able to get that out, put it on the page, submit it with their college application, and own that narrative plan. So that is a different kind of challenge that someone who has an obvious talent that they've grown up with.

00;42;52;02 - 00;43;10;14
Speaker 3
Yeah, they, they find it challenging, even getting out the words. And then my job is really to tease it out gently, to try to a patient approach. And so that was what was required. And yeah, then it obviously made a big difference for her. Yeah.

00;43;10;17 - 00;43;40;11
Speaker 2
So we've kind of discussed the, you know, the narrative a little bit, you know, trying to figure out what to write about. Then it comes time to actually write. And this is where the, you know, the art of storytelling comes in. You know, it should there be a specific type of build, you know, with a hook? I mean, again, because you're limited in how many words you get to write, you know, and it was funny, I did have a student per student.

00;43;40;11 - 00;43;44;24
Speaker 2
I forget they were I think the essay they had to write was limited to 2000 words. Is that does that sound right?

00;43;44;24 - 00;43;49;11
Speaker 3
That number? That's way too long. It's I mean, well, okay, it's 5650.

00;43;49;14 - 00;43;54;10
Speaker 2
That's what that sort of was. She her essay was 2000.

00;43;54;13 - 00;43;55;23
Speaker 3
Oh, I said yes.

00;43;55;23 - 00;44;21;20
Speaker 2
And then I was like, Hey, we're ready to go. And then it comes out. And the problem was she's like, Oh, I got to. And kind of thought she cut it down and she was still over like 1200. So like, I thought, I cut this thing. So obviously you have a finite amount of words, you know, is there a set structure that you typically would use in to kind of is is it always kind of the same structure that makes a good essay?

00;44;21;20 - 00;44;27;12
Speaker 2
Is it always different? How do you look at the actual writing of that?

00;44;27;15 - 00;44;53;00
Speaker 3
I would say so. There's no set structure. You lose a perfect answer. Writing doesn't work like that. Storytelling. Yeah. All right. Yeah. A hook. If you can have a good hook, that's good. If you don't have a good hook, I might be perfectly fine. Okay. I think the most important thing is that this is about storytelling, even though have much experience with storytelling.

00;44;53;00 - 00;45;22;09
Speaker 3
But the most important thing is that you're not giving a portrayal of yourself that's static. You can't just say, I want to be a doctor. And here at seven Reasons Why I Want to Be a Doctor because that's not a story. That's a list. A story has to have change. And so to write a personal statement or that's about yourself, you need to show how you've changed over the course of time.

00;45;22;11 - 00;45;41;25
Speaker 3
And so you need to start in one place and you need to end somewhere different. If you don't have that, it's not going to be a good essay. So that that is critical. If you look at the prompts, they all ask, they will ask you how did you change? How did you grow from the experience? So you want to start usually with some kind of event?

00;45;41;28 - 00;46;04;25
Speaker 3
Mm hmm. Maybe a hook maybe. Is the whole point of your essay. Mm hmm. And you want to describe a problem, and you want to describe how you worked on a problem, and you want to describe how that led to change. There may be some cases where you don't follow a narrative of personal growth. Sure, But you definitely need change.

00;46;04;25 - 00;46;27;25
Speaker 3
You need the story to start somewhere and go somewhere else. Like a movie. Mm hmm. If there's no conflict, if there's no problem established early on, no one is going to keep watching the movie. It's boring. Yeah. So that is critical. A sense of movement, a sense of development, a sense of change and your recognition that change has happened.

00;46;27;28 - 00;46;55;01
Speaker 3
And then I guess one other thing I'd say is you do need to tell a story to get three to interested. So often it's a hook to just describe an event that was really important. But there's an you need to achieve a balance between story telling and then analysis. Mm hmm. You need to describe something that was important, but you also need to reflect and demonstrate that you've thought about it and been maturing and processed the experience.

00;46;55;07 - 00;47;11;03
Speaker 3
And that isn't more storytelling. You can't just tell a story the whole way. You need to stop and reflect. So yeah, I'd say those are the I know they sell general maybe, and they're not that helpful, but a sense of development and a balance of storytelling and analysis, I'd say.

00;47;11;06 - 00;47;31;29
Speaker 2
I think that's extremely helpful. You know, kind of how your you're describing it. I think hopefully parents that are struggling with this time of the year and like you said, we've got six weeks left, you know, and I might hear this and go look at that child's essay and go, all right, let's let's start from scratch here. Let's let's go.

00;47;31;29 - 00;47;45;26
Speaker 2
You know, it's it's I think it's great information which leads me to in a real college essays. So is it just you do you have a staff do you have other people that that guide families catch me up on the business aspect of of how you're working right now.

00;47;46;00 - 00;47;49;01
Speaker 3
I do I just start a business this year.

00;47;49;04 - 00;48;07;00
Speaker 2
And so when you know clients come to you, is it do you offer, you know, different levels of service? Is it, hey, an essay critique, is it that you have to you sit down with everybody? What is the process of, hey, if Ahmadu, if I were a junior right now, my kids are all younger. My oldest is in fifth grade.

00;48;07;00 - 00;48;26;16
Speaker 2
But, you know, if I'm coming up in senior and I'm looking for help with an essay, when would I reach out to you? When would be, you know, how early do you take on clients? Do you if I'm late to the game, do you have expedited services? What's kind of your your business model and on how you're helping families and students Right now the.

00;48;26;16 - 00;48;58;13
Speaker 3
Vast majority of people are seniors applying. I do have a couple of juniors who just want to get started and they're applying for other essays in writing, competitions, that kind of thing. And so they're doing that to prepare for. Okay. But most the thing is, I don't have fancy packages. Basically what we do is we have a 20 hour package, we have a three hour package in case people want that or we will just do it hourly.

00;48;58;15 - 00;49;23;13
Speaker 3
But my reason for that is that there's such a wide there's so much variety in terms of what's to be done. Students come to me, I'll admit it's very rare. A couple of students have come to me with near-perfect coming up essays. That's very rare, but I'm a very good writers and only need, you know, three or four or five sessions to have a decent coming up essay.

00;49;23;15 - 00;49;49;01
Speaker 3
Mm hmm. I might need ten. Then there are the supplementals. So I prefer to just let people let me know how many hours they need. Most people go hourly just because of that, but at a certain point they might want to purchase a package, realizing they're going to need a certain number of hours, usually to find out. I think the best strategy, because I don't want people to buy, they don't need.

00;49;49;03 - 00;49;58;01
Speaker 3
So I'd rather they work with me for an hour or two, get a sense of how long they need. And it should be very clear after a few. Yeah. Okay.

00;49;58;03 - 00;50;11;17
Speaker 2
And if families are reaching out or want to get in touch with you, hopefully I'm not we're not going to put a bunch of, you know, reaching out and, hey, I need I need an essay done in two weeks. But how can they how can they get in touch with you?

00;50;11;19 - 00;50;40;17
Speaker 3
Oh, well, real college Essence.com is the website for a number email. There's a web form that can easily get in touch. Fantastic. Well, I'm still taking on new people. Okay, so at this point, that's going to change at a certain point. So I would hope there's capacity. Always hope. Yeah, it is. It is getting chaotic and there's a certain point usually in October where it's just impossible to take on anyone.

00;50;40;20 - 00;50;42;03
Speaker 3
Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

00;50;42;05 - 00;51;05;02
Speaker 2
Now, this has been great. We covered a lot today. You gave a plethora of education and knowledge that we're constantly looking for. I greatly appreciate it. Yeah. Anything else that you would if you kind of have this general audience that we maybe didn't discuss anything, that that would stick out, that you wanted to make sure that families or students know about.

00;51;05;05 - 00;51;29;28
Speaker 3
Um, yeah. One thing I guess I would say, I mean, this is going back to the college essay. I think I talked a lot about how you want to stand out on the page. Mm hmm. I think admissions officers are often used to hearing the same thing over and over again. The same kind of the same kind of narrative over and over again.

00;51;30;01 - 00;51;54;13
Speaker 3
And events will draw cliched conclusions. The fact that, well, say, this terrible thing happened to me, but I'm so glad it happened because it made me stronger in this way. That's a classic thing students will say. It seems like the right thing to say right then your reducing your life to a cliche. Hopefully I will see someone say, you know, it was actually really hard and I didn't recover from it.

00;51;54;15 - 00;52;20;05
Speaker 3
Yeah. In this particular way, that's more interesting. So an essay shouldn't be clichéd in terms of content. Mm hmm. It also shouldn't be cliched in terms of form. And I haven't talked about this, but often students writing is a bit full of imagery, but not great imagery. Mm hmm. A bit cutesy, a bit sentimental. I'd avoid that writing style.

00;52;20;07 - 00;52;46;11
Speaker 3
I would rather you have a point that you want to make and make it clearly and directly. Mm hmm. But not use image after image where I'm not really even sure what you're saying. But you think that's good writing because that's what you were taught to do. Right. Yeah. So that would almost be the most important point to avoid writing something clichéd in terms of content and in terms of form.

00;52;46;14 - 00;52;48;03
Speaker 3
But yeah.

00;52;48;06 - 00;53;00;14
Speaker 2
As wrapping up on a Niall's, a more recent college grad, he's probably taking notes on what I should have done for my essay now. I'm just kidding. Did you have anything you wanted that was coming up to you today? Anything jump out at you I thought was.

00;53;00;16 - 00;53;05;08
Speaker 3
Very helpful discussion. I'm constantly going through Facebook groups, seeing different.

00;53;05;08 - 00;53;08;01
Speaker 2
People, families asking questions about the essay.

00;53;08;01 - 00;53;11;27
Speaker 3
So I'm looking forward to sharing this to families. Nice.

00;53;11;29 - 00;53;32;26
Speaker 2
I think it was one that I thought about asking earlier and then it got away from me and then when you were just talking again. So this will be my last question as we're running down on time here. But one I do want to ask, I chat about artificial intelligence. Yeah. Is that going to put you out of business?

00;53;32;29 - 00;54;06;12
Speaker 3
I it's a good question. You know, I've thought a lot about it. Um, I. I'm not worried about it. Maybe I'm too much of an optimist, but I. I think that chatbot, at least now, the shop, it will write an essay, but it will write a really mediocre essay. And the reason it writes a really mediocre essays because what you really want and again, I didn't mention selling, but it is critical when you write an essay, you need to mention your own specific experiences that you've had in life because you samples you need to be specific.

00;54;06;15 - 00;54;27;00
Speaker 3
If you're not specific, then it will just sound like anyone could have written it or could have written it. Right. The chat CBT test. When I'm reading essays and I'll ask myself, could this have been written by GPT and and and it isn't often a student has written it, but it isn't good because they haven't included their specific experiences.

00;54;27;01 - 00;54;49;04
Speaker 3
Yeah, it can't do that. It can't write describes. They describe that have uniquely happened to you. Yeah they're essays. Or sometimes a student can sound like CBT, but I don't like students, so I don't think it's possible. Yeah, unless something radical happens with a i.

00;54;49;06 - 00;55;11;12
Speaker 2
I. Yeah, yeah. We'd have. We had, uh, I forget what professor we had on, but we were, we got brought up in conversation and he said there's an easy way I get around my students haven't, you know, be able to use, you know, chat I gpg or all the different concepts as well. Ask a question that's, you know, could hypothetically be answered.

00;55;11;12 - 00;55;33;12
Speaker 2
But then the follow up question is, well, how does that make you feel? Right. And right away it it stands out. You cannot have artificial intelligence. Write an essay about how it makes you feel. And so that's where I, you know, I'm looking at saying for a college essay. Yeah, it's about emotion, about who you are. I don't know how artificial.

00;55;33;12 - 00;55;52;09
Speaker 2
I mean, you're right. There would have to be some major, major advances or somebody would have to be prompting, you know, chatbots for, I would think, a couple of years through to be able to actually write about, you know, like truly how you how you feel about things in your experiences. But I really like how you put it.

00;55;52;09 - 00;56;00;29
Speaker 2
You said that students can sound like just chatbots, but chatbots can't be sound like a student. I like tell you put that makes a lot of sense Yeah.

00;56;01;01 - 00;56;01;20
Speaker 3
Yeah that.

00;56;01;20 - 00;56;20;00
Speaker 2
Was a good one. Well then this was fantastic. Thank you so much for being on. Actually, I actually think we should. We should look to get you back on again, you know, some time, you know, once a year, maybe. I would. I would definitely love to keep in touch as we move on. So I really enjoyed this. This really was good.

00;56;20;00 - 00;56;29;26
Speaker 2
And I think I hope parents and especially a lot of those stressing out over this this time of year get a lot out of today's episode. I know I did. So everyone thank you so much.

00;56;29;28 - 00;56;30;14
Speaker 3
For.

00;56;30;21 - 00;56;35;16
Speaker 2
Listening in Make sure to join join us again next week for yet another episode of College Knowledge.

00;56;35;16 - 00;56;38;22
Speaker 3
Take care and don't forget to like subscribe.

00;56;38;22 - 00;57;03;08
Speaker 1
Share this with your friends family. Thanks everyone for being a part of college Knowledge powered by weekly collegiate planning. Just as an employee, we are guaranteeing that you will save money on college by working with ECP. This is a guarantee that you will pay less. Book a free consultation at Elite Collegiate Planning Bcom. Thanks for listening to the College Knowledge podcast with your hosts, Dave Kozak and Joe Kearns.

00;57;03;11 - 00;57;12;02
Speaker 1
We hope you enjoyed this week's exploration of higher education sponsored by the College Planning Network and Paradigm Financial Group. That's all for this episode. See you next time.