Amy Wellington and Chazz Miller

This Episode speaks with multi-media artists Amy Wellington and Muralist and painter Chazz Miller. Chazz is the creative force behind  Artist Village Detroit and is currently revitalizing his original murals there and also in the newly appointed Obama building. They are making strides in motivating youth to work in the arts with MEDU.org. and Kindred Spirit Dolls. Listen in for more on this exciting dynamic duo.

https://www.facebook.com/amy.e.wellington
https://medudetroit.org/
https://www.artpal.com/ChazzOriginalz

This podcast is sponsored by
Michigan ArtShare
Jazz Alliance of Mid-Michigan J.A.M.M.
Shambones Music
To be a sponsor for this podcast, go to the Patreon link below.
https://www.patreon.com/TiaTime1
Produced by Green Bow Music

https://www.canr.msu.edu/michigan_artshare/
https://www.coldplungerecords.com/

Transcript

Tia Time with Artists, with guests Chazz Miller and Amy Wellington – recorded 8/21/20

Tia Imani Hanna:Welcome to Tia Time with Artists, the weekly podcast where we discuss the methods, challenges, and real-life experiences of living our creative dreams. What kind of creative warrior are you? Musician? Filmmaker? Painter? Choreographer? Poet? Sculptor? Fashionista? Let's talk about it right now. I'm your host, Tia Imani Hanna.

Tia Imani Hanna: Welcome to Tia Time with Artists! Today, we have Amy Wellington and Chazz Miller, and they are fine artists and amazing people and I wanted to welcome you both to be on my inaugural season of Tia Time. So, thank you very much for spending some time with me today. Thanks for coming.

Chazz Miller: Well, thank you for your time.

Amy Wellington: Yeah, this was real special for us. So, we really appreciate it. 

Tia Imani Hanna: Our show is about inspirations. How are you being inspired? How do you get inspired? How do you inspire other people? Amy, what made you choose the art form that you chose? You do painting.

Amy Wellington: Yeah, it really has been a metamorphosis. Throughout my whole career as an artist there's been some sort of paper element, so I'm really a mixed media kind of paper media artists. So, I do a lot of collage. For years I was a paper maker, so that was getting vats together, filling them up with water and pulp and pulling paper and making products and artwork out of that. And I still use that today, but now I do a lot of collage work in my imagery and have quite an extensive paper collection to draw from, to make imagery from that. But I'm also a mixed media artist, so it's lots of drawing media, paint media, watercolor, pastel, oil pastel, all that. I just look at the image and go, “What do I need in that spot?” And then I go get it. 

Tia Imani Hanna: Okay. All right. Was there something like in your childhood… you saw somebody paint, you got some fingerprints on the thumb in kindergarten or, what was it that… what was it about mixed media? What was it about paint? Or what was it about drawing that really captured your vision? 

Amy Wellington: I don't know if it was any one thing. I know that, growing up, my dad would make a lot of things. He was a woodworker and so it was nothing to say, “Oh, I would like to do this” or “I would like to have this thing” and then go and figure out how to do it, and make it.

And so, he really did that. They were, they're both educators, so it's a problem to solve. How do you do it? And, just, it really hit me more, probably in high school, junior high and high school, where I went in and I was looking at doing that, but by the time I was a junior-senior, I knew I was going to art school. And I put a portfolio together and submitted it. And my first years were at Kendall School of Design.  And then went out West and went to school out there. And then, ultimately, came back to Alma College and finished up with a BFA. 

Tia Imani Hanna: And Chazz, for you, was there something that made you go with painting and drawing, and what was it? Was it small projects first and build into big things? Because now you're working in murals and things. So, what was it for you that set your art in painting as your thing? 

Chazz Miller: It was a natural progression. As a kid you doodle, but in school I was highly distracted, and I would always sit in the back of the class so I could doodle. I just never stopped doodling. And then at some point, you run across an art teacher to tell you there's more to the world and art than doodling and starts giving you all these options. And it's just mind-blowing. Detroit Public Schools, at the time, had no decent art schools. So, it was two schools you would go to Cass Tech or, I think, Henry Ford and Murray, maybe had decent art programs, but definitely Cass Tech that was a prima donna for the arts. So, if you didn't get in an area, you pretty much weren't going to art college or didn't even have a clue. I was exposed to the vocational schools the first year they started vocational schools in Detroit. And this is kind of my argument for when we get into talking about MEDU, about teaching art as a practical trade. So, I was fortunate enough to have that experience and meet a teacher who had actually left Cass Tech, Al Noyer. Mr. Noyer was an amazing art teacher and introduced me to the opportunity to have scholarships to go to art school, which is something I never even knew. I knew about, of course, basketball scholarships, football scholarships, and those things, but to get a scholarship to go to a full art school was absolutely mind-boggling to me. And, through him, I was able through this mentorship, was able to go and achieve four scholarships. One of them was to Kendall, but it was only for a half a year or something like that. But the most elaborate one was the one I chose, of course, which was four years at the Columbus College of Art and Design, which at the time was in the top 10 of the college of art design schools. And I went there for illustration and marketing and advertising. And then it was just, at school for a while and you become a senior and you got to figure a way to pay bills. You got to go out and start getting a real job while you're at school and so on and so forth. So, I stumbled across the billboard industry and, totally by accident, and I was just painting signs with them, doing the little signs and the lettering. And one thing led to another, ended up doing that for about seven years. And then someone told me with my background on billboards, I should go out to California and seek work in Hollywood to paint large mat paintings for movies, backgrounds. I thought that sounded very interesting, but I just had no clue how I was going to get out to California. The art of positive thinking and reinforcement by writing things down. I still have the calendar that I said I was going to be, on my birthday in 1991, on June the 14th, in California. Two weeks before that date, I looked at that calendar, and there was no way I was going to be in California. Lo and behold, I did some portraits for this singing group. Make a long story short, ended up meeting Don King's limousine driver, one thing led to another, and soon turned into reference, ended up meeting Don King and presenting all these artworks to them. And they invited me out to Vegas, and he paid for my trip to go out to Vegas, to hang out with… to see Mike Tyson fight George Foreman and paint and draw ringside. 

Tia Imani Hanna: Oh my gosh! 

Chazz Miller: On my birthday I woke up in Phoenix, Arizona, and from there we went to Vegas, and from there we moved to LA. Yeah, my birthday, I woke up on that day. We actually left before May. It was… my birthday is in June. We actually left in May to head out West. We drove. So yeah, by the time we got out there and I ended up in LA, we stopped at three places, Arizona, Vegas, and then LA, and on my birthday, I woke up in LA on June the 14th. So that's one of my stories about, really about writing things down and positive reinforcement and visualization. From there, I spent almost, went out there for a two-week vacation, and ended up staying out there for seven years. The power of art. I ended up doing artwork for Magic Johnson, Olympic gold medalist Ron Brown. I could go on and I got pictures of me and OJ Simpson and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But ended up, family became more important. So, after my seven years, I moved back to Detroit to help take care of my father and my daughter, at the time who was 12 years old. I came back to Detroit and just seeing how blighted things were at the time. I was just absolutely just blown away at that. And so, I wanted to do something. At the time, my father was still alive, and I was doing all this complaining and he said, “Look, I don't want to hear all that. You need to go and to do something about it or shut up. No, I don't want to hear it. Look son, you're either part of the problem or part of the solution, real. Look at what tools you got and see how you can make the difference.” And my biggest tool was my art. and, and then, just through years of doing outdoor murals and billboards, I knew the power of public art. Then, I met Hubert Massey when I came back to Detroit and he gave me a lot of positive reinforcement as far as the power of public art, which reinforced what I already knew. And just one thing led to another and I worked out in Southwest Detroit, with the Hispanic community first, and ended up meeting Blight Busters and doing work over there, and then that's how it all started with the Artist Village. 

Tia Imani Hanna: Wow! So that's a lot!

Chazz Miller: Believe me, I condensed it. Yeah. Cause one of the… one of the most profound things is, again, the juxtaposition of narratives. Is before I knew what the Artist Village in that community was, I was carjacked in that area. When I first moved back to Detroit, I was a character artist specialist. We did nothing but corporate and private parties. Obviously, I still keep plenty of markers and things right behind me and coming back from a party and stuff to the gas station, on Burt Road in Brightmoor and was carjacked and almost lost my life. So, when I ended up in that neighborhood, about two years later, I realized it was the same neighborhood. I really had a breakdown in emotions because I realized I was in a neighborhood that I almost lost my life and that I was making a difference. So, it's a lot, it's a journey. It's quite a journey. 

Tia Imani Hanna: So, this is for both of you then. For Amy, what about art is the thing that makes the most difference in your world and in our world? What do you think it is that makes art so powerful in our world? 

Amy Wellington: I, for me, it's the whole realm of creativity. Okay. So, it's the whole process, it’s that whole creative process. It is coming up with that concept that I actually want to spend time to create and time to take it all the way to the end and put it on the wall and all of that stuff for people to see. So, it’s that creative process and for me, the end result. I really want to be really guided as far as what kind of things I create and put out there as far as visual things. Particularly now, it just seems like it is… people can create all over the place and they do, but they don't really realize what effects that it has out on the viewing public and out in the world. So, for me, it's got to be… and it's been more in the last years. I was at the Ella Sharp Museum and we created stuff there all the time because of the mandate of the museum and you're supposed to have a lecture series, or you're supposed to do this, and you're supposed to do that. And it looks good for the website. It looks good to offer these things, but whether people came or not. That was some of a problem. Some things people came to and it was great, and it was wonderful and some things you just did, for the sake of doing them. So it was, like, I got to a point in my life and it was, like, I'm not going to do it unless, first of all, it gives me joy and happiness to do it. And, that once it gets out there in the world, it also shares joy and happiness or love or care for one another or bringing people together. Having a positive message and really moving people in a positive way in their life forward. That's what motivates me. It's out there. Maybe earlier on, it was really self-reflective stuff. When I was in school, Kent Kirby, who is my advisor and mentor, he would sit there and he would say, I think most of the kids that come through here, they do art and it's almost like art therapy for themselves. They tried to process their own stuff and being able to really express themselves in a manner that was positive, or at least visually. So, they weren't out there hurting anybody or getting into trouble or something like that and they were able to communicate. But a lot of people, they make a lot of visual information and they don't want necessarily to communicate with anybody.

It's, you look at it, and it's I don't know what you're trying to say to me. Or I don't know what the purpose of this work is about, kind of thing. And that's fine. that's their place. But, for me, it was, early, it was self-expression, things that I was going through, reflective of some of the challenges that I had in my life. And, and I still have to work that day, but now it is, yes, these are challenges, but this is the outcome. This is what you want to aim for.

Tia Imani Hanna: Okay. So, you want to create what you want to see in the world. Is that kind of the idea? 

Amy Wellington: Yeah. One of my sayings is to focus on what you want, focus on what you want to have happen in your community, in your life, with your friends, to the public or the community. So, it's like focus on what you want. 

Tia Imani Hanna: Sure. Okay. And Chazz, for you? What do you see as the purpose of art in your life, in how you express your art or your voice in art? 

Chazz Miller: It's, again, I believe in residuals and thoughts and things. Again, focus on what you want. It reinforces what I was talking about, the California experience, and writing it down and visualizing it. But then working towards those goals and sometimes, for me, it was just about inspiration because that's what inspired me. I was inspired by other artists, taking gallery trips, museum trips. I was fortunate enough that my mother took me out to museums and things at an early age, so just seeing all those images and then growing up in a car capitol. In high school, there were a lot of guys that drew cars and growing up around just… It was always kids that drew cars. He knows, especially in the sixties when I was growing up, so that was always cool. And I don't know how many of the age group of your listeners remember Big Daddy Roth or Rat Fink. Airbrush artistry really started at the State Fair in Michigan. Airbrush tee shirts were one of the first things they would ever present with hot rods T-shirts, when you remember like the modern hot rods with the rat coming out with the giant stick shift and a giant motor. And I don't know if you guys know, it was really inspiring. So just, again, we're an automotive capital, the engineering automotive stuff, all that was always around, and it was just always exciting to me. And just looking at factories like the angles and all the machinery of the factories to me was… Always, people see dirt… I just always thought it looked like sculptures. It just really looked sculptural to me. So that was always inspiring to me, the lines of the industries, industrial city that is Detroit. 

Tia Imani Hanna: So, the two of you now are inspired and working towards different things and some of the same things. I know. Now, Amy, you're working on… you've got the dolls, right? 

Amy Wellington: Yeah. I have 12 multimedia, paper media, what I call “Kindred Spirit” paper dolls and I really take that kindred spirit, and it just is… it's with a lot of different things. So, there's one on love and there's one that is about stardust. And there's one about the seasons. or there are several about the seasons and there are two that are a butterfly and a dragonfly. And that's more about like metamorphosis and transformation. So, they have these separate kinds of meanings that all go with them. And so, a lot of my effort just recently is to start to take those and I'm putting stories with them. I'm working with a graphic designer and we're figuring out how to make them into kits so we can sell them as a product. So, we've been looking at different ways of… different paper types that have pearlescent on it. They're really very girly. They're very glittery. They're very fanciful and they all have very similar things to them. And so, we're really… I’m looking at that. And this is a push to be out into a more general public, a more mass public venue or audience, particularly children, so that the stories are looking at storybooks. And, how you know, and there's a kindred spirit in the back that they can make, kind of situation. So, we're looking at several different things. We're just starting off with the 12 we're going to release. We're working on releasing the Love Kindred “Kissa” for Valentine's Day, 2021, coming up. So that's coming up fairly soon and working on that and really looking at the… finding the right printer and all that kind of stuff. So that's all trailblazing right now to me. That's pretty interesting. And then, another one is that I've been working with a group of women in Detroit who are using oracle cards and things like this. And so, I'm also working on a series of oracle cards for another person, doing the backgrounds and things like this and putting that together for that. So those are two things that are going on right now which are pretty exciting. And that's, that's also putting that positive energy out there in the world and creating that scenario that can hopefully bring people together and help unify people and be in a positive place.

Tia Imani Hanna: So, with the Kindreds, you’re aiming it towards all children or female children or all children?

Amy Wellington: I think at this point, it’s probably female children because they're all quite feminine in how they look and how they're constructed. But that doesn't mean that there can't be an appeal to males. It might actually not be a Kindred. It might be something else that has that kind of magical fairy realm kind of stuff that is more, that might be more magician or might be more some other kind of character that would be more appealing to boys, but it's with the girls right now, definitely solidly in that audience right now.

Tia Imani Hanna: And you're trying to see, going back to what you were talking about, create the things you want to see. So, what do you want to see these children get from these Kindreds? 

Amy Wellington: First, just the idea of being a kindred spirit or what does that, so it means that it doesn't mean it's this huge love attachment relationship or anything. It is, it's more about… you can identify with other people that have the same kind of values that you have, If you want to promote love, or if you want to be able to… it's just, it's a subject, pick a subject,  So if you're trying to have more of a positive experience in your life where you're trying to process trauma or something like that, these Kindreds are there, and they're supportive in that they're a force for good and a force for helping, that kind of idea. And then just teaching about that, what does kindredness mean?

Tia Imani Hanna: Okay. And this also ties in with what the women's group that you're working with as far as creating the spirit of general goodness in the world. Is that kind of…? You mentioned them in conjunction with each other. That's why I ask.

Amy Wellington: Oh, the women are all about self-actualization. So, it is really finding out who you are. It's going back and looking and being reflective of instances that might've hurt you. And so, it is going in there and addressing it. There are lots of techniques of being able to process that kind of stuff, but it's more about… it's about self-healing, it's about self-development, more than anything, and then a pursuit of kind of your purpose. What it is that you are trying to accomplish in this lifetime. What are you trying to share with people? What are your talents and skills and your treasure and effort and all of that, and where do you want to put that, and how do you want to support people and things like that? 

Tia Imani Hanna: So, do you have some new artwork on that level since you've got the Kindreds with the children, and then you're doing this inner work with the adult women. So, do you have any new artworks that you're considering for the adult women part? On self-actualization? 

Amy Wellington: I have things in the sketchbook at this point, yeah. I do. they haven't gotten out yet but, I've been able to experiment around a little bit. the studio is set up right now to… there's a lot with paint and it's just a big space and it's playing around with a lot of media. I know how media moves around. I know the different layering that I like to use, and I have the imagery that I want to do. So yeah. yeah, I do. 

Tia Imani Hanna: It's coming. So, I'm just trying to see if there… do you feel like it's leading you in a particular way since you've been working with this group? Is there a particular thing that you feel floating in the ethers? You know what I mean? Like, from working with these women, do you feel like you're being led, and they need direction by your muses? You know what I'm saying at all?

Amy Wellington: I think so, but it's also… it's just sitting down, it's centering, it's really centering. It's really just taking that look within. I'm very visual. So, in a meditation, things come to me visually, quickly, so I have to make sure that when I get done and I'm journaling afterward that I have to really write it out, I draw it out. Most of it is drawing it out. It's just, okay, I saw this. Now I saw that. And then it's I want to share those things because you know what I see, I just… it's beautiful to me. So that's all I really need to do that, and if I was going to spend time doing it, that's, that's what I want to spend time doing. 

Tia Imani Hanna: Okay. That's what you're currently working on. Now I know that you are facilitating a project that Chazz is working on, or Chazz you have some independent stuff, and then you've got the thing that you're working on with you and Amy working together, correct? Yeah. I see an eyebrow twitching over there. Audience, I know you can't see this, but his eyebrow is twitching. So…

Chazz Miller: Yeah, there's always different levels. So, my fine art collection is always ongoing… series of works that I'm working on. I'm finally… I'm looking to do a show in October with those pieces. But my main focus right now, while the weather is good, is painting outdoors. And again, that's just my outdoor painting credo from painting billboards for so long. I just love painting outside, painting big with a lot of equipment, and it keeps you in shape and all that good stuff. So right now, yeah, I'm trying to crank out as many murals as I can. I'm on my third one for the summer or second one or something like that. but the two I'm doing right now, both over a hundred feet long. One is an MLK theme that's based on… and that was done in 2003 and has been redone based on the current events that are going on with George Floyd, which are the same events, unfortunately. And the other one is a tribute to George Washington Carver and Sweet Potato Sensations, which is a business that's been in the community for probably 30 years. The owner was inspired by George Washington Carver, and she attended Tuskegee Institute and her daughter is now taking the baton, but she also does the sweet potatoes and the cooking and taking it to the next level, the merchandise and things. She also has a natural hair show that she does every year, I think probably for the last seven years. And so, the mural is a combination of both of those or all three of those, the George Washington Carver history, that the heritage of passing a legacy was the theme, and it's a mother harvesting sweet potatoes from her daughter's hair. 

Tia Imani Hanna: Okay. That's different.

Chazz Miller: Really cool imagery tied together, based on a real story.

Tia Imani Hanna: Okay. Many people may not know about George Washington Carver. For those of you listening who don't know about George Washington Carver and Tuskegee Institute, you can look those up on Google and in books in libraries. 

Chazz Miller: Great African American inventor. Yes, indeed. And actually, he was an artist also. He was a very awesome painter and drew a lot of the plants that he studied. So that was really interesting and inspiring. Then, outside of that, is just developing. This logo here is for MEDU Detroit. MEDU Detroit is Micro Enterprise Design Unit, which was founded last year with Amy and I and it's really to continue our efforts to train young people in the field of arts. That's really our core. It’s really inspiring young people to understand and to see a path to have an art career, recognizing their talent and how to cultivate it. And that's why Amy and I really struck a great accord. And just the fact that we both really, really have a passion for the arts, from the ground up. The connection has just always been awesome.

Tia Imani Hanna: Okay. Let's see, tell me about What did you say that it was called? MEDU?

Amy Wellington: It's ‘me do’, so it's M-E-D-U. It is Micro Economic [actually ‘Enterprise’] Design Unit. Okay. That is what it is. And to me that, essentially… and I'm going to let him talk about the African connections and the roots of all of that. I'm going to let him talk about that for us. We just do a lot of really project-driven kinds of work. So, if it's a mural project or a placemaking project, or a hopscotch event, or going and attending events and doing different things. Then, it is taking what is that thing, that project and, how do we incorporate the community with it? How do we incorporate the youth with it and involve them so they can be doing problem-solving creative endeavors in working out the project? If you're starting off with it, it's here… we have this project and we're going to get started. So how are we going to get started with that? What needs to happen to do it? So, it's taking people through this process. 

Tia Imani Hanna: Who is MEDU? Exactly. Or is it a government-funded agency or what is MEDU? 

Chazz Miller: Right now, it's an LLC. It ultimately will possibly be a nonprofit. We're evaluating what direction we want to go in because really the whole thing is about enterprise and enterprise is about profit and that's the whole thing. We're looking at small manufacturing through 3-D printing through laser digital cutting processes and as many of the modern techniques that we can learn and teach young people to utilize, but, again, MEDU Detroit is about using art as skilled trades or manufacturing training. Which was actually the history of MEDU. Actually, MEDU Ensemble was… you can do a little research on this also… got a lot of homework for you guys… But MEDU Ensemble was to give you a short version… it was a South African group that fought apartheid using the arts from about 1970 to about, I think, 1987. Don't quote me on that. Again, do your homework. But the interesting part about it is they were brought down on my birthday, June 14th, I think 1987. I know for a fact it was June the 14th because adverts really stuck with me to utilize this as a way to start a social revolution to change the hearts and minds of young people about what they have to live for. And so MEDU, literally, would go to different villages with their art, to like silkscreen political posters. And if they were caught, they were murdered, they were killed. And so Fela Kuti, if you ever heard of him, a famous artist, comes from that group, and so on and so forth. So that's where MEDU originally originated from, South Africa.

Tia Imani Hanna: I see. I did not know that. Okay. I will definitely look into that some more. I know Fela Kuti. 

Chazz Miller: Yes. Awesome artist. Yes. 

Tia Imani Hanna: All right. So MEDU… right now, are you all working on a media project in Detroit right now? 

Chazz Miller: The, murals, all the murals I'm doing right now are under MEDU Detroit and all my public art right now is under MEDU Detroit. And again, the murals are bait to lure the children in. Okay. So, once we get them and capture their imaginations, then we can start offering classes and getting them to sign up. And of course, even the parents. So, as they stop by, they are inspired, usually, we try to give them a card, or at least get their digital information so we can get them on a mailing list, start notifying them. And, at that point, they're ready to sign up. So that's really exciting. So, we just obviously been seeing how things play out yeah. With the COVID and everything, but we're really looking forward to activating some classes probably early next spring at this point. 

Tia Imani Hanna: Where are the classes going to be? Where are the murals that you're painting right now?

Chazz Miller: Right now, we're focusing on Lahser and Grand River, which is the Artist Village. We have quite a bit of a property in that area that we can activate. There are also some areas in the Puritan area, the D corridor that we have opportunities activating. But the beautiful thing is that we want to be mobile. We don't really want to be tied in any one location. We want to be flexible in that regard, so that's what is exciting about what's going on right now. So, it's like having satellite locations. 

Tia Imani Hanna: Okay. Okay, 

Chazz Miller: So, we can serve more young people that way. 

Amy Wellington: Yeah. People have reached out and then we also put proposals together. As far as some of the things, how would… what a neighborhood or community is looking for? If they've got a project and how we can add to that and we're very good at going in and being able to engage the community. This is like one of the number one things that needs to happen so there is a real exchange. So anything that a mural, or work, or memes, or whatever it is, that remains, that is something that the community has had a hand in and people that are in that neighborhood are reflected in it. That has come really from Chazz. That has been his mode of operating for a long time, is to really go in and what it is that you're looking for and talking with people and being able to take all that information and then come back with a real nice visual design of what that is. And then it's right out there and everybody comes and looks at that and goes, wow, look at this thing. And it just continues, just continues. Social media, we're getting postings of people reacting to the mural that's on Puritan all the time, tagging it, liking it, whatever it is. And we've gone back, we've put some more memes up and down Puritan and that kind of helps keep people re-activated with it and looking at it again with fresh eyes. This summer we're circling back and being in the Artist Village, Lahser/Grand River area a little bit more. And, going back, we'll work with Roslyn again, a little later this summer. We've worked with her in the past too at the Cross-Pollination Corridor. She is in the Brightmoor neighborhood in the Farm Way, I guess they've named that area of Brightmoor. This woman, Roslyn Flint, she has begun this kind of campus area and it is to grow food and she has a tea house there called the Urban Country Tea House and that's on Bramell and she curates her own teas, and she has a little meeting spot there, and then she has gardens and, a big greenhouse that has just been erected, and she's working on a meditation garden, and she's working on a couple of centers, the Butterfly Art Center. And I know it's not called that… it's another name, but it's butterfly, the transformation and metamorphosis at the center and the art part of it. But the Cross-Pollination Corridor is… it's not just about pollinators, bees, and butterflies and such, but it's also about ideas and having people come together and share ideas and learn from one another and things like that. So, that's actually where Chaz and I met three years ago and that was a project that we had, that I had written a grant from the State of Michigan, from Michigan Council for Arts and Cultural Affairs. And that was to do a street mural. Years ago, when I saw this street mural stuff and, and I was, like, when I was back at Ella Sharp Museum and I'm going, I'm doing one of those things some time in my life there's going to be a street mural that I'm going to be involved with. And so, when we were working with Roslyn, Diane Wilson, and I, with Michigan ArtShare, we went in there and that was who I worked with to put this grant together and do this project. Actually, Diane was the person that introduced us all, acquainted me with Detroit and all of that whole scenario now that has happened, but that's where we met, and we put together a street mural. That is the central location. She has a big event every year called "Meet in the Street" and people come and they do the hustle on it ,and they dance on that mural and gather and drink tea and learn about gardening and she's got a big vision for that place and we want to keep working with her on that, bringing more art to it. And we've got another, a small mural project over there about bats as pollinators. 

Tia Imani Hanna: Wow! 

Amy Wellington: A bat mural. 

Tia Imani Hanna: That's great! That's great! Okay, so you've got the Cross-Pollination Corridor mural project. You've got the redoing some old murals over at Artist Village going on. And then you've got some new murals as well. 

Chazz Miller: There was a mural that was done, when was Obama elected? 2008, the first time? Yeah. Okay. So, after the inauguration at the inauguration dance, I took a photo of him and Michelle and I did a mural that was 16-foot that is 16-foot by 8-foot. And I placed it on top of this abandoned building. And it was on that building for his whole two terms. And somebody finally bought the building and the owner of the building decided. Yeah, they want it to stay in the flavor of the neighborhood with the Artist Village and donate it to the nonprofit and make it more of a community co-op type building. Okay. And so, they kept the mural and they we went to the community for about two years and discussed what the community wanted to see in that building. And the community decided to keep it The Obama Building based on the mural that we had done all those years ago. When you talk about placemaking, 

Tia Imani Hanna: That's amazing!

Chazz Miller: Yeah. The power of public art. There were parents that told me that their children demanded that they drive by that mural on their way to school, which was out of the way on the way to school.

Tia Imani Hanna: Just so they could see it, right? 

Chazz Miller: Yeah. So, when they took it down to start rehabbing the building, I got a lot of feedback, like “Where's the mural, what happened to it?” And so, fortunately, the community decided they wanted to name and keep the building “The Obama Building,” and the piece is being restored. And it's going to be placed inside the lobby. And there's going to be a gallery and we're going to be working with Amy and Michigan ArtShare to curate the gallery. So, in October I'm going to be doing my first show probably in about 10 years, my fine art show, combined with the unveiling of that mural and unveiling of all the murals that I've done this summer at Artist Village. So, I really want to make a statement about speed, quality. I want to set a whole new benchmark in outdoor public art when it comes to murals as far as speed, quality, substance, technique, media, community engagement. So, when I check down this list, there'll be no question who the “GO” is. You know who the GO is, right? “The Greatest of All Time.”

Tia Imani Hanna: Yes, Yeah.

Chazz Miller: Understand, I'm a big sports buff and its always competition to me. People go, “There are no winners. There are no losers.” No. The kid that worked hard, that sacrificed, that didn't break, you know what I'm saying? If he wins, he deserved to win. How can you say a kid who didn't sacrifice, didn't do his homework, he really should get a trophy too? Really. So, for me, it's always about what you put in is what you get out and you… really, for me, it was always about hard work. Talent is one thing, but I want to outwork everybody. 

Tia Imani Hanna: Okay.

Amy Wellington: You're working your tail off over there. That's all I say.

Chazz Miller: Yep. When I see all those construction workers on that building, I'm like, oh yeah, they're not going to outwork me. No way. So, I make sure when they quit, I'm still working. 

I get there before them in the morning. And when they leave, I'm still working. 

Tia Imani Hanna: That's right. That's how you get things done. How you get things done. 

Chazz Miller: And respect, really, just through the years… I've really… my hard work ethic has really gotten me a lot of respect, just as much as my talent. And that's a blessing to me, especially coming, I always say… coming from a blue-collar town because my father was a steel mill worker. He worked in the coal mines. So, I used to see him come home, literally covered with coal-black, and, back then, 12-hour shifts was regular, you know. 

Tia Imani Hanna: Sure. 

Chazz Miller: So just that a work ethic is really good. And so, we want to pass that on a lot of these young people that really need it.

Tia Imani Hanna: Don't know what work really means. 

Chazz Miller: They'd say, two hours of work and for every two hours of work, a 10-minute, 20-minute break, really? So yeah, so it's really about that, just continuing to build on what we already have and… but really the next level for me is looking forward to the fine art, museum-quality work. And eventually, murals, I'm getting a little older and getting up there and I say, ‘long in the tooth’. I'm looking at slowly phasing out the larger work as far as physically, as long as I can do it, I'm going to do it. But, really looking at maybe train some young people, but ultimately the residual money that can come for my family and for my legacy is through, obviously, reproductions and prints and fine art pieces that have a legacy to go in museums and things. 

Tia Imani Hanna: Okay. Okay. So, here's some general questions, for both of you. What is something that you know now that you wished you knew when you were 20, regarding art and working in art?

Chazz Miller: The internet. Yeah. Oh my. 

Amy Wellington: Just to piggyback on that, it's just to know the type of effect, the internet is one, but just the technology, the path of how technology has gone, particularly in visual information and how people get that information, that kind of thing. That's… who would have ever known? 

Chazz Miller: Yeah. And then for me, I think it's about systems. What I've learned is that there are systems and there are patterns to everything. And to be able to recognize patterns, guys that, it wasn't called the… Oh, I see. My title was ‘intellectual resonator’, right? No. What did they call them? Futurists? Guys that kind of predict the future that's based on looking at current patterns and trends. So, I think if I would've had a better vision of the bigger picture at that age it would have been obviously very helpful. Because at that age, I thought I was… I thought I was hot shit too because I had a scholarship. I had a little red Mustang. So, you think you got a lot of it figured out, but, yeah, I just wish that I could see, could have seen a little bit beyond my own smell. 

Amy Wellington: Yeah, a lot of it too, at 20 years old, pretty much for me at 20 years old, I did. I left Michigan. I went and I moved out to Portland, Oregon, and that was pretty urban for me. And being far away, not really being reliant on family or just the homestead and all of that and just striking out. Portland was a good place for me to land, but it was also probably, if I look back at it now, I think I would have tried a couple of other things. I think I would've tried to hop into some other cities too, whether it was New York or Chicago or something, 

Chazz Miller: What I'm talking about, like, the big picture understanding, right? The bigger picture. 

Tia Imani Hanna: Yeah. What would you tell 20-year-olds now, looking at what's happening? Do you see trends starting? Point them, because of all of your knowledge that you do have, that you've pointed a 20-year-old towards?

Chazz Miller: Yeah. just even right now, I had a conversation yesterday. I had a conversation with two of my mentees that actually live in Chicago now and they came to town and stopped by the mural I was painting on. Yeah, we had some of those conversations. But yeah, it was looking at, again, we’re in this society. We’ve got this COVID thing going on and some of the other things with all the natural disasters in the environment, so… just looking at those things right there can give you clues. And so, that's what I, again, the bigger picture outside of, even outside of your art career, looking at the world and where the world is going. Just like everybody, all of a sudden, they realized the opportunity to make masks. It's obvious, but at first it wasn't so obvious, you know. And so just being ahead of the curve, by seeing the big picture gives you an opportunity to be ahead of the curve. So yeah, just telling young people, some of those things that recognize, you have pointed them out. 

Tia Imani Hanna: Okay. How about you, Amy? 

Amy Wellington:  Sometimes I think it's interesting, some of the trends you're seeing. That is now for me… now I've lived in the same place for over 30 years, So I have this home base, which I love and I have all the resources that I can possibly think of here. But then sometimes that's wavy and it's ‘I can't be that nimble’. It's not like I can just, “Oh, let me catch a flight and go someplace.” 

Chazz Miller: On a painting excursion, right? 

Amy Wellington: Yeah. Hey, I want to spend six months over here. So, it's do it, do it, do tha.t Then, figure it out. And I look at, sometimes I think the Europeans had some really good ideas with that. It's balance things out, nurture your relationships, nurture your friendships, be able to travel, and meet new people. That is one thing that even now… because I do get in the car. That's my little oasis. I make sure that I can get in the car and I can go places at least around Michigan and it just brings so much richness to my life. All the people that I have been able to meet in the last, well, my whole life, and it's going out. So, it's when I'm with Chazz and we're at the mural and I'm talking with people and what's going on with you and what are you interested in? What are you doing? What do you think about this and all that kind of stuff? And then I have done work with Diane and Chazz and other artists. And it's we go to other cities and it's “there's this artist Chazz and you would really enjoy talking to him and finding out about his ideas. And would you like to meet him?” I really look at myself as a vessel of being able to do that and I think young people can really start to take a look at that too, and it's not just… I have my close friends. I do, and they're my confidants and stuff, but then I have this whole group of people that I know, that I love, that are just wonderful. The things that they're doing out there, their efforts, their energy. The things that they're creating that are so great… and just being able to make that connection…and enlarge the world, basically. So, you can do that here with the podcast, with technology, you can do it face-to-face. You can do it in creating art. You can do it by creating music or any of those things. For me, it's just the world is an oyster, and it's just going out and discover it and use it and taste it and all that kind of stuff. Go do it.

Tia Imani Hanna: Do it. 

Amy Wellington: Yeah. 

Tia Imani Hanna: Make art. Make art. I feel like that little parrot ‘make art, make art.’ Yeah, exactly. Okay. You're telling kids to create the social circle, and this is partly why I wanted to do the podcast, because I always wanted to have a salon, like they used to do in the Harlem Renaissance or they used to do in the twenties in Paris, that people will come to. Gertrude Stein was throwing a party, so everybody was there. Picasso was there. Hemingway was there. Or in Harlem, you had Duke Ellington showed up and Louis Armstrong and Josephine Baker and all these people would just show up and talk about their art and talk about politics and talk about everything that they were working on. And so, this is my version of that. You guys are in my living room… actually, you're in my closet, but still the same idea. I'm really grateful for the technology and it's definitely something I would have killed for when I was 20 because that was what I was looking for and I couldn't find it. 

Chazz Miller: Yeah. Yeah.

Tia Imani Hanna: And people just were like… they were there, I guess I just don’t know where they were because I couldn't connect to those people. I couldn’t find those people. And now you can go online and find those people and they will be there with you. And that's mad cool. 

Amy Wellington: Back when I was 20, I don't even think there was VHS. Yeah. There was VHS tape. There was VHS tape at that point, but the people that I knew, filmmakers, and they were on film. 

Tia Imani Hanna: Yeah. They were on film. That's right. And you couldn't even see their films unless you went to someplace that was showing their film. 

Amy Wellington: That's right. That's right. So yeah, when you talk about that connection and I see when people, like Chazz and I, have this connection, we have a connection with you. We have a connection with, there's like a group of people that we each have, but we have together too. And I think about some of the work like actors, where actors work together and they create films or TV shows and things, and they work together, in project after project. And those are the ones actually that kind of rise to the top. They know what they can do. They know what their skill set is, and they can produce it. There are a lot of artists out there right now that have great ideas and never do anything with it. It's like, how do I take it from here? Up in the head, into the visual on the third eye, all that kind of stuff. But how do I get it out through my hands out onto the paper, out onto the wall, out onto the canvas, whatever it is, and then make that community around it and share it with the world. And that's… you've got to share it with the world. 

Tia Imani Hanna: And I just… I had a conversation with… on a separate podcast with, percussionist Carolyn Koebel that I work with a lot. And, she said the same thing. We were both saying… she's like she had decided several years ago that she was not going to just let stuff pile up and not producing anything. She was going to just record it and put it out a record and put it out. She says, artists do it, writers do it. So why are we holding onto this stuff? Because it's not perfect. Who cares? Get it out of the way. Because I know if I don't do that, it stacks up and I can't work on anything new, because there's this old stuff that's still in the way. So, if I get it down and put it out there then it's done. There's room for new stuff now… and then get that done and put it out. And so, this podcast is… one of my new mentors that I don’t know, those online mentors, she says, “Done. Not perfect.” Now I'm adopting that as my thing. This podcast will be done, and it won't be perfect, but it'll be done, and it'll be out there. It'll have great content. The energy will be good. The people will be fantastic. And the things that aren't perfect, we'll tweak them as we go. 

Chazz Miller: Now you've got something to build on. 

Tia Imani Hanna: Yes. Yeah. 

Chazz Miller: You can't build on nothing. 

Tia Imani Hanna: Exactly. And you… 

Chazz Miller: And you can. You're still gonna have to rebuild that… 

Tia Imani Hanna: Exactly. The thing I think about… I put out a CD in 2012 and the one before that was in 2002. And so, there's a lot of time in between there, partly because back in 2002 and 2012, the technology was so different. It took a lot more money to do that little thing that I did in 2002 than it did in 2012. I got a whole CD out of the same amount of money that it took me to do a five-song thing in 2002. 

Chazz Miller: Are we good? You can do the whole thing on your phone now. 

Tia Imani Hanna: Yeah. So, it's now, and now it's 2020 and I still need to do another one. Now we're dealing with COVID, but I can still, I can still say it's written, it's arranged. Now when COVID is up, I can just get my musicians. We rehearse it, we record it. Boom. Done. And that's my new thing. So, ‘done not perfect’ is the way to go. It's “just do it. Just do it. Make art.” I need a hand puppet, “Make Art.” I like that idea that is what we're all about. And I love hearing everybody's different versions of how to do that, how to go about that. And Chazz, I need you to make me a note about how much money I'm going to make by next year. And then we're going to go play the lotto.

Chazz Miller: One more little story. So, I told you I was doing character drawings. As a matter of fact, it could have been… it had to be… more than that night because it was in Livonia, but there was a couple of the first year. He says, “Hey, draw us in a boat.” The next year I came back to the party. This was Ford Motor Company, like a company appreciation party. The same couple said, “Look, you drew a boat. We ended up getting a boat. Wow! Can you draw us in a new house?” We’re joking. I'm not lying. I don't swear, but if I did, the next year, the same Christmas party, they came back and they said, “Man, you won't believe it. We got the house, yup.” So, they wanted me to draw them on a vacation… I haven't seen them since anyway, so… 

Tia Imani Hanna: Magical drawing powers. 

Chazz Miller: I want to thank you very much for the time. 

Tia Imani Hanna: Oh, thank you so much… You both so much. Amy Wellington, where can we find you online? Is there any that we can send people to find you? 

Amy Wellington: I'm on Facebook. You can definitely find me on Facebook, and I've got a page on there and studio or AMPATH, so you can see some of my work there. We have the MEDU website. And so, I'm involved with that, but that's a lot of the projects have MEDU.

Tia Imani Hanna: Chazz Miller. Thank you. And where can we find you online? 

Chazz Miller: #Chazzoriginalzart on Instagram and Chazz original/Facebook, then MEDU.org. and from there, you can see other links to other references. 

Tia Imani Hanna: I will make sure that they get on the show notes. All right. So, thanks guys, so very much! And I appreciate the time and the energy and… thank you.

Chazz Miller: Come on. Come on out the closet.

Amy Wellington: Okay. 

Chazz Miller: We love you, baby!

Amy Wellington: Okay. Thanks. Bye. Bye.

Tia Imani Hanna: Thank you for joining us this week on Tia Time with Artists. Make sure to visit our website, tiaviolin.com, where you can subscribe to the show in iTunes and never miss an episode. Please leave us a rating wherever you listen to podcasts. We really appreciate your comments, and we'll mine them to bring you more amazing episodes. 

I’d like to thank this inaugural season's sponsors: The folks at Jazz Alliance of Mid-Michigan or JAMM, Michigan ArtShare, a program of Michigan State University Extension is a partner in supporting the Tia Time podcast, and Shambones Music. Without their support this podcast would not be possible. Thank you so much. If you would also like to contribute to the show, you can find us on https://www.patreon.com/TiaTime1.

If you want to continue the conversation about topics discussed on the  show or start new ones with like-minded people, join us at the Tia Time Lounge on Facebook. 

Thank you for listening. See you next week at Tia Time!