The Leadership Vision Podcast

The Folds That Shape Us: Embracing Life’s Permanent Creases

• Nathan Freeburg, Linda Schubring, Brian Schubring • Season 8 • Episode 30

Share episode

Send us a text

In this episode of The Leadership Vision Podcast, hosts Nathan Freeburg, Dr. Linda Schubring, and Brian Schubring continue their conversation on themes from their book Unfolded: Lessons in Transformation from an Origami Crane.

The focus is on folds—the permanent creases created by early experiences, habits, and lessons that shape who we are. Brian shares his own anchor folds of work ethic, spirituality, and education, while Linda offers insights into how we can name and embrace our own folds without judgment.

Listeners will discover:

  • Why anchor folds matter and how they influence leadership.
  • How to name your folds and let them tell their story.
  • The difference between working with your folds vs. against them.
  • How transformation is possible through unfolding and refolding.

Whether you’re leading a team or reflecting on your own personal growth, this episode invites you to embrace your story, scars and all, as part of your leadership journey.

📖 Learn more about the book Unfolded: Lessons in Transformation from an Origami Crane.
🌐 Explore resources on building positive team culture at leadershipvisionconsulting.com.

🎉 Unfolded is a National Bestseller!
#1 in Business & #5 Overall on USA Today
#17 on Publisher’s Weekly Nonfiction
📘 Grab your copy + get the FREE Reflection Guide!

Support the show

-
Read the full blog post here!

CONTACT US

ABOUT
The Leadership Vision Podcast is a weekly show sharing our expertise in discovering, practicing, and implementing a Strengths-based approach to people, teams, and culture. Contact us to talk to us about helping your team understand the power of Strengths.

Speaker 1:

But in the courage of unfolding may we take the joy of children who say well, I can make a plane. And guess what? They don't care if there were bends and folds in it from before. As they were practicing, those planes were crashing in the parking lot and then they would, you know, smooth it out and they would try something else or they would add a little bit to it. And they kept playing, and they kept playing. And for me, I was witnessing the joy of not being limited by all the folds that we used to have, but experiencing the joy of the folds that will actually give us flight. Don't be embarrassed by the creases and crumples. Most people aren't looking that close at you anyway.

Speaker 2:

You are listening to the Leadership Vision Podcast, our show helping you build positive team culture. Our consulting firm has been doing this work for the past 25 years so that leaders are mentally engaged and emotionally healthy. To learn more about us, you can click the link in the show notes or visit us on the web at leadershipvisionconsultingcom. Hello everyone, my name is Nathan Friberg, and today in the podcast, or visit us on the web at leadershipvisionconsultingcom.

Speaker 2:

Hello everyone, my name is Nathan Friberg, and today in the podcast, I am joined by Dr Linda and Brian Schubring as we continue our series from their book Unfolded Lessons in Transformation from an Origami Crane. In this episode, we're going to be exploring the idea of folds, those early life experiences, habits and anchor points that shape who we are, those early life experiences, habits and anchor points that shape who we are. Brian shares some of his own foundational folds, while Linda offers ways to reframe your folds so that they tell your story, and together we ask how do we work with the creases in our story instead of against them? Now, as you listen and become familiar with the idea of folds, I invite you to reflect on what three or four folds from your own life might be that have shaped your identity and how might they be guiding you, whether you realize it or not, toward your next transformation. This is the Leadership Vision Podcast.

Speaker 3:

Enjoy the importance of folding patterns is applied this way when we ask people to work with the grain of the brain, we're saying work with the way you think, work with the way you feel. And when it comes to the folding patterns, there are certain folds that we just need to work with. For example, this has been an over-exaggeration, but most origami animals they begin with the same two to four folds. There are a couple of mountain folds, a couple of valley folds and those strong, permanent creases are so well set in the paper. Those creases and folds will never go away.

Speaker 3:

And what's important to remember about that, to remind ourselves of, is this there are some lived experiences that we have had in our lives that happened early enough and often enough, and those experiences have created this anchor fold, one of the first few folds that are the through line for the rest of our lives. There's nothing that we can do, there's no amount of transformation that will ever erase the impression of the fold, and everything in our life not everything, most things in our life tend to work with that fold or those first few folds, whether we know it or not. That's why I think it's so important to practice reflection, understanding, asking for help, interpreting where we've come from, to understand some of the reasons why we do what we do. Some of the reasons why we do what we do, because how many people do we work with, myself included, that work so hard to work against the fold and we're just not going to be able to do that Against their fold?

Speaker 2:

My fold, but they work against their own folds Right.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, here's an example. Because of how I was raised, we always had to work to get what we were going to get. I learned at a very early age that I needed to get a job, work my tail off, earn some money if I ever wanted to buy a new baseball glove or hockey gloves or whatever. It was that working harder part of me you're both laughing. You know that. That's part of who I am. That is a deep valley fold in my life where my first instinct is if I work harder, if I try the same thing over and over again, if I get more at bats, if I take more shots, I'm gonna get better. That's just part of who I am. So I am more reluctant to take a new way or to try something new because I don't trust what I don't know. So when it comes to refolding, it's hard for me to even begin to make a smaller crease because I just don't trust the process.

Speaker 2:

It's not my it's not my lived experience, so is then, is that something that you you go with and you lean into it, or are you trying to change that and become more? I don't know. I'm trying to work with it.

Speaker 3:

Here's an example, and Linda and I had this conversation the other day and I can't remember even what we were talking about.

Speaker 3:

That doesn't even matter, but the point was I was getting worried about whether I was going to be able to do the work. But the point was, I was getting worried about whether I was going to be able to do the work and the point was, what I was more afraid of is the change to get to the next point, because I know I can do the hard work. That's not the thing to focus on. But that's what I was focusing on is can I do the work? I know I can? I've proven over and over again I can do the hard work. It was just adapting to the implication of making a change, to the implication of making a change.

Speaker 1:

So, when you think about folds in your life, what are some of the well-worn pathways? It could be even the habits, could be, unfortunately, the limiting beliefs. It could be how you were shaped by your parents, or the activities that you were part of at a young age, or how you were educated or not educated, or where you learned your greatest lessons. So it's one thing to look at a map and it's another thing then to start to look at the ways that you have been folded, it's coming to terms with it and it's understanding not just what the map looks like but how it's been folded.

Speaker 1:

Some of the people that we've met and talked to have said things like this well, how do I iron out my map? Because I'm willing to unfold, but I just I want to steam some of those creases out and unfortunately, like that's not the point, you't do that. How do you work? How do you work with it? How do you make peace with it? Because, yes, in a new shape, there will still be remnants of where you, where you, came from. So, understanding brian's work ethic, understanding his drive and his willingness to roll up his sleeves and work hard and approach whatever he's doing with the elite athlete mindset. To understand that of Brian. I'm not going to change him and say just lighten up a little bit, just run a little bit slower. That's not a helpful way that I can come alongside him and invite him to think about his map or the folds in his map differently.

Speaker 3:

So here's a question for our audience, and that is try to name like three or four of those fundamental anchor folds in your life that happened early on repetitively, that are still there to this day. So if I were to expand on some of these fundamental folds in my life and be a little vulnerable, here here they are. I've already mentioned the hard work. That one's still there. You guys know that that's there. We already talked about that Number. Next is keeping score, because I was. I'm sitting right next to you. I can hear you laughing in the microphone Keeping score.

Speaker 2:

As an athlete, I just keep right next to you, I can hear you laughing in the microphone, keeping score.

Speaker 3:

As an athlete, I just keep score. It's a part of who I am. You guys know that, whatever that looks like, it's always there. Number next, spirituality I was raised in a church. Going home, that attraction to the spiritual, mystical nature of things, that's just how I think. And last is education. I've learned that learning is a pathway that I engage on to grow and to develop those four fundamental folds. To know, brian, is so that those four things are there. Now, those are lived experiences. They were shaped by people. They're just who I am. And to know that about me is understand when I'm at my best, when I'm in flow, when I'm, you know, just enjoying life. Those four areas are probably engaged in some way.

Speaker 1:

And it takes those teachers that we named in the previous episode about maps, the experts and explorers and empaths and entertainers. When we stop just looking at our map and we start to look at how we were folded and how we were shaped, and then the shapes that we don't see, it's some of those teachers that can help us understand why certain things were tucked away and why the folds are there and why remnants of the folds are there. However, what are ways that old folds encourage new folds?

Speaker 3:

And some of those fundamental fold questions could be like what I named experiences. Some of the fundamental folds that you could maybe be answering for yourself could be what Linda's mentioning, that is, the people. Who are the four people that had a significant shaping impact on your life? You can also think about the places. You could name specific places that created fundamental folds in your life. It's just, it's never going away or maybe specific events. Whatever it is, the point is, within our map there are clear and distinct fundamental folds that give us the shape, the dimension and the texture of who we are as individuals. They will always be who we are, even though there's a potential for transformation, to completely reshape ourselves. The fundamental folds will still be the guiding principles in the beginning of our next process.

Speaker 2:

What I'm trying to think of is, let's, let's say there's something, there's some fold that you really want to change. You want to steam that sucker out. You want to get rid of that. You know, in the book OC is going from one good thing to another good thing. I'm an origami crane and I want to refold into an airplane. But what if you know I'm?

Speaker 2:

I was going to give an example of something very bad and negative, but I don't know if we want to do that here, but just something like I really want to change this about myself, to become something better, something more life-giving. So how do you work with people or instruct people? I know we're trying to figure out this whole folding metaphor where it's like no, this fold, this crease in my life, this is something I am, uh, I don't like. There is shame, there is guilt, there is. It's still a part of my journey and I can't ignore it, but I'm working very hard to fold it into something better. What is that process like? Because you are unfolding it, but that crease is still there. You're saying like it doesn't ever go away and you just have to learn Like you know, brian, you're talking about keeping score.

Speaker 2:

Learn Like you know, brian, you're talking about keeping score. Well, what if that goes way off the rails and you become, you know, this militant scorekeeping monstrosity of a human and you're like this is just who I am. If you look at where I was raised, I played on teams. This is who I am, back off, you know. Does that make sense? I don't exactly know where the question is in there. How, maybe when, can it go too far of understanding and knowing this is who I am, this is where I came from, versus transforming those things into a generative, positive, life-giving force that exists in the world to do good.

Speaker 1:

Is there some question that you can answer? Well, I'm hearing a lot of measurement or this is good or this is bad. We want to take out some of the emotional or electric charge or judgment and just say name it, name the fold, all right. What does that say? Don't automatically assume okay, that's bad, so I need to get rid of it.

Speaker 2:

I'm gonna assign a value to it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah yeah, um, erase some of the value. Just look at it for what it is and then allow. Allow that information or that ability to name to bring you to the next step this is why I've learned firsthand the hard way.

Speaker 3:

Leave the fold alone. Let the fold tell the story, because you can't ever undo the experience, but the experience tells a story and when you let the experience tell the story within the context, it's going to surprise you what you hear. For example, just think of how many scars you have on your body. Every scar tells its own story, and one of the most significant scars that I have you would. You might never see or I might never point it out, but it carries with it a crazy story. That's both funny and terrifying, but it's just part of who I am.

Speaker 3:

We don't always pay attention to some of the, you know, difficult folds in our life. They're always going to be there. And how do we work those folds into the new design? And that's the part that I just love. The other day I was having a strengths conversation with someone, and I just love having these first conversations with people where you're just getting to know them, because you're always surprised by their story, because sometimes the way someone shows up, they just show up so polished and so confident and everything is quote-unquote, ironed out. But then, the closer that I came to this person's story, the more, I realized just how textured their story was. Not like prickly texture, but it was almost like Braille, where there was a hidden message on the surface of their map which you would never have known unless you listened really closely. Now, in that story you don't press out the Braille, you let the Braille tell its own story. But you have to listen, pay attention and be open-minded to what the folds are saying, because they will speak truth about the person.

Speaker 1:

But how to not glamorize it?

Speaker 2:

Or vilify it.

Speaker 1:

Or vilify it. The extremes of that.

Speaker 3:

Okay.

Speaker 1:

It goes back to seeing the value. So from a distance most people look really put together, Like they're in a beautiful origami shape and we're just celebrating it. The closer you zoom in, the more creases and crumples and wrinkles and stretches you see.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, okay.

Speaker 1:

So with that it's a matter of perspective, because some of these folds are so close to us it may feel like it's not a scar. It's still an open wound. So let's not, you know, pick that apart too much. I think it is the some of the folds that create the best help. For other people are the scars where someone else is saying, like I've been folded like that too.

Speaker 3:

You know what I?

Speaker 1:

fell off the platform and I was crumpled like OC as well. I spun on my back like turtle. There are these stories and these, these stories, and these not just folds, crumples, creases, scratches, tears, that also speak about our humanity and who we are and how we show up. And it's, it's our willingness to share that, not just iron out perfection and trying to show off.

Speaker 3:

If you find yourself fixating on a fold or a crease and you're unsure how to make sense of it, it may be maybe it's time for us to ask for help to interpret it, because there's such beauty in letting something sit for a while until it's the right time, and there is a beauty that comes when you're actually nurturing the part of your story that wants to be told in a different light. I was doing some executive coaching with someone a couple of weeks ago and his story, which you would never know by watching him. He was homeless for two years after college. You would never know that that part of his life was there. But the way he tells the story fully embraced, he fully embodies it. And the way he tells the story was in then, how he lives his life now and the lessons he's teaching his kids now.

Speaker 3:

In that story he had to ask for help. He literally had to start over. He had to renew, like what he believed in. But the point is he did the work. Sometimes the folds, the bends and the creases just need our attention. They need some love, some care, some kindness and some gentleness, because I really believe that those folds, bends and creases are there to teach us something, and the timing is now.

Speaker 1:

And the reason why we used origami is there's a beauty and elegance to it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

And we described in chapter one about all the different kinds of paper that were chosen for these different characters. And so, although some of the folds are strong, the other message of the book is you don't have to stay in this shape, the shape you are today is not the shape you have to stay.

Speaker 1:

Sometimes people resign like, well, that's just my fold, that's just who I am, that's who I'm going to be forever. And instead, what are those lessons? The folding could be a lesson of something I'm not going to go back to, or, oh yeah, this is some of the hangup that I have. So how do I have it stack in a different way to get out of these patterns that have not been helpful to me?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I was reading something the other day. It was about kind of mindfulness and meditation and stuff, but it talked about how the quote I wrote down was many of the attributes that we value most are skills that can be trained. The same way that you build, like, your body in the gym, and I wonder if that applies here in the sense of like knowing these folds and knowing they exist you can sort of practice or train or try to quote chapter three to be different. And if you're not aware of that, if you're not aware, then you have no ability to try something different, you have no ability to work on a skill or work on a whatever. And that all begins with kind of acknowledging the fold, with recognizing the fold, with not ascribing some sort of value or numerical number to it, uh, just like. This is a thing, and moving I don't know if moving past it is the right, is the right way, but just um I don't know, is that anything with it?

Speaker 3:

was that moving with a?

Speaker 2:

drone. No, well, it was. It's in the book 10 happier, happier by Dan Harris, okay, and he quotes a lot of people in there, so I don't know where exactly that came from.

Speaker 2:

But the other quote was just the idea of meditation in general, like when you get good at it, the practice can create space in your head. He says so that when you get angry or annoyed or mad, you're just less likely to kind of take the bait, or you can at least pause. Or mad, you're just less likely to kind of take the bait, or you can at least pause. And I wonder if the same thing applies to being aware of these folds, so that you know if a fold represents a behavior that you don't like and appreciate. If you're now aware of this fold, maybe you can see it coming. Or the reverse, like oh, this is a fold that I just this is such a great part of who I am, I'm folded in this way, I love it. It's reverse, like oh, this is a fold that I just this is such a great part of who I am, I'm folded in this way, I love it, it's your, it's your paper plane fold.

Speaker 3:

you can try to do more of that, I don't know if that's anything, I'm trying to bring in random things here, but part of the reason why the conversation on folding is important is because the folds give us the shape and dimension, the architecture that help us sustain the challenging and the fun times in life.

Speaker 3:

We also are choosing this metaphor of folding because there's always an invitation to change and when it's time to change, we can reverse the folds and start over to create an entirely new shape, and in that process, some of the fundamental folds will provide the guidance necessary and the direction needed for what is potentially available to us to become. That transformation is a process of slow and intentional unfolding to then refold again, and in that process, I think it's important to ask for help. It's important to take the risk, because we also know this a new fold is just creating a tension in a new direction, right, and that tension in a new direction will give us a new shape and a new perspective on ourselves and who we are as people that may empower and enlighten us for whatever the challenges that we are facing.

Speaker 2:

The golden retriever when Osi gets on.

Speaker 3:

I can't remember if it's a boy or a girl and Golden's back and they're running and he's like, okay, stop.

Speaker 2:

Or she's like stop, and then she flies off and for that briefest of moments she was quote unquote flying and then slams into the tree and falls down. I was rereading that and I was laughing, because how many times do you have someone in your life quote unquote flying and then slams into the tree and falls down? I was rereading that and I was laughing, because I you know, how many times do you have someone in your life who comes along to help you all well, all good intentioned, but it doesn't go very well, and and you're like, oh that, I fell, I crashed, I burned, like don't ever do that again. It's like, well, actually, maybe that's exactly what you needed, but you just need a little more of a little, something a little different. And so to you know, not to spoil it, but she needs to unfold her other wings. So they're both going in the same direction. Okay, done, Well, got it.

Speaker 2:

But what I was thinking about with that is, you know, you talk about all the people in your life, how you get to a point and you're just stuck. Had she not taken that risk, gotten on his back, ran headlong into a tree, she wouldn't needs. Maybe the other one, Maybe I need to do this. So it's that part of that process I think is extremely difficult and scary and challenging and unless you have other people in your life that can, maybe, like you said, you're too close to it. We're too close to it sometimes, so I don't even know what I'm saying here.

Speaker 2:

I do, there's no question, but okay, google translate me here.

Speaker 3:

There's no question. But okay, google translate me. In the process of folding, unfolding and refolding, yes, we pay attention to the folds that are there as we're refolding. I think there's an important lesson for all of us, and that is test the folds. The folds create shape.

Speaker 3:

Shape needs to be tested and sometimes the testing happens quick, sometimes the testing happens slow, but what's important is test your progress, test your evolution, test your ideas, practice what you're, what you think you're doing, to learn what adaptations or adjustments need to be made or who can help you along the way.

Speaker 3:

Because part of what I know through lived experience and watching and talking to people is that sometimes all the signs point to the folds being ready and they're not, and we just don't know until we try. So part of the invitation is fold and test, refold and test again, because at some point we're going to understand, when the shape gets really, really close, that it's actually working, and we always have a chance to go back and start over again. I just, I really believe that the metaphor is strong for so many things in life, whether it's learning to develop a new skill, or practicing something we haven't practiced before, or reminding ourselves of what we're good at. There's some life to be gained by understanding our folds, by trying to shape ourselves into something new and to test our folding process as we go.

Speaker 1:

And I think we can learn a lot from folding and folders. When our book first came out, I was bringing the book to a friend and it's the couple's dear, dear friends of ours. She's been part of Leadership Vision in the past. She has three beautiful boys. She's been part of Leadership Vision in the past. She has three beautiful boys and I hold up the book and I'm giving it to them before they head off to Machu Picchu, which is a whole other map. And I was telling them, and Bethany said Linda and Brian wrote a book To her kids, so she's describing to her children. Linda and Brian wrote a book to her kids, so she's, you know, describing to her children. Linda and Brian wrote a book and I said it is about an origami crane. You want to hear the first line.

Speaker 1:

There once was an origami crane who dreamed of becoming a paper plane. And these kids are active, they are smart, and the youngest two said we make paper planes and it was this joy. So of course I dig in my purse and I have two maps, square maps, because we carry maps and cranes with us wherever we go. And I handed each one of them a piece of map paper and I have their, I carry their planes with me. Because they created two very different planes and one of them actually said well, I'm used to, I don't use squares, I use rectangles. And his dad, who was forever encouraging, said just try it this way, just try it this way.

Speaker 1:

They made two different planes and then they were practicing, flying them in the parking lot as we were, as we were hanging out and to see them crease and fold, and then wonder and wonder about aerodynamics and try to explain.

Speaker 1:

They were explaining to each other like, oh well, you need to have more of this. And then, because of the lift of that, and I was just watching the joy of two young boys just making a plane, and the whole part was make a plane and I think as adults sometimes we're like I don't even know where to start. I'm just a crane, that's it. And sometimes, you know, we don't know how we showed up in this form and in this shape. But in the courage of unfolding may we take the joy of children who say, well, I can make a plane and guess what? They don't care if there were bends and folds in it from before. As they were practicing, those planes were crashing in the parking lot, and then they would smooth it out and they would try something else, or they would add a little bit to it, and they kept playing, and they kept playing of not being limited by all the folds that we used to have, but experiencing the joy of the folds that that will actually give us flight.

Speaker 3:

Hmm.

Speaker 2:

That's so interesting. Thinking about the folds of a child or the lack thereof, they're just figuring it out Like they don't have the limits. That that we do as adults and it's something I'm constantly reminded of is like, don't force them into this, into my way of doing things. Yes, there's obviously wisdom and stuff to be learned, but just that excitement of watching kids figure stuff out and like let's just try this, let's try, just try this. My aunt was here visiting recently and she's a some executive with a healthcare company and she was she was like have you ever heard of this marshmallow tower challenge? Like have I ever heard of that? And she's like I just thought it was so interesting how the kids did better than all of these fancy PhDs, because they're not afraid to try and they're not afraid to, you know, experiment and and fail quickly and and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So how would you guys wrap this up or how would you put a bow on what we're talking about?

Speaker 3:

Fundamental to each one of us. There is a map, and in that map are dominant folds that give us the shape and dimension of our life. The invitation is to work with those folds and imagine what shape they could possibly provide when given the freedom to express themselves. Linda, what would you add.

Speaker 1:

Don't be embarrassed by the creases and crumples. Most people aren't looking that close at you anyway. That's not true. Because they're more worried about their own creases and crumbles and covering them up and, should you unfold, take some lessons from my young friends and fold anew.

Speaker 2:

Thank you for listening to the Leadership Vision Podcast, our show helping you build positive team culture. For more resources about folding and unfolding, you can visit us on the web at leadershipvisionconsultingcom or click the link in the show notes, where you can also find a link to Brian and Linda's book Unfolded Lessons in Transformation from an Origami Crane, sold wherever good books are sold. If you want more resources about what you heard here today or anything related to building positive team culture, again visit us on the web at leadershipvisionconsultingcom or click the link in the show notes. I'm Nathan Friberg. I'm Linda Schubring.

Speaker 3:

And I'm Brian Schubring.

Speaker 2:

And on behalf of our entire team thanks for listening.