The Leadership Vision Podcast

How Susan Inouye is Transforming Leadership Through Human Connection

• Nathan Freeburg, Linda Schubring, Brian Schubring • Season 8 • Episode 31

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In this episode of the Leadership Vision Podcast, we talk with executive coach and author Susan Inouye about her unique approach to leadership rooted in the Zulu greeting Sawubona—"I see you." We explore how Susan’s gift-centered model helps leaders build cultures of belonging, recognize the hidden strengths in others, and shift from command-and-control to connection and care.

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Speaker 1:

I've been really focused on helping executives and senior managers better connect with their younger people, their millennials, their Gen Zs, through this method called Salbona, which, at the heart of it, is really about helping people become the best leaders and the best people possible, and the byproduct for my clients has been an increase in productivity and revenue, sometimes by 50%, in only six months. So there's a direct connection and I know that a lot of companies don't get it.

Speaker 2:

You are listening to the Leadership Vision Podcast, our show helping you build positive team culture. Our consulting firm has been doing this work for the past 25 years so that leaders are mentally engaged and emotionally healthy. To learn more about our work, you can click the link in the show notes or visit us on the web at leadershipvisionconsultingcom. Hello everyone, my name is Nathan Freeberg and today on the podcast, we are joined by Susan Inouye, executive coach, bestselling author and creator of Swabona Leadership. For more than two decades, susan has helped hundreds of leaders make the shift from managing people to truly seeing them, from authority to authenticity. Her work is grounded in the Zulu greeting Sabona meaning I see you, and that's the heartbeat of her message that when we learn to see the people around us, truly see them, we can unlock transformation at every level of our organizations. Now, in this conversation here today, susan shares powerful stories about what happens when leaders recognize the unique gifts in others, including a few surprising examples from her early work in film with at-risk youth and in high-stakes corporate environments. Alongside my co-hosts, dr Linda and Brian Shubring, we explore how Swabona leadership creates cultures of belonging, engagement and deep human connection. Now, as you listen, I want you to consider this reflection. What gift might be hiding behind the behavior that you find most frustrating in someone on your team? Could it be that what you're seeing as a problem is actually potential waiting to be recognized? This is the Leadership Vision Podcast Enjoy. So, susan, I want to read this introduction that I kind of cobbled together from a variety of different your bio, your website, some other stuff I find. So I'm going to read this and I want you to fill in the gaps.

Speaker 2:

So today's guest is Susan Inouye, a visionary executive coach, bestselling author and the creator of Sawbone Leadership. For more than two decades, susan has guided over 600 organizations across 40 industries, helping leaders make the shift from authority to authenticity, from managing people to truly seeing them. She's the author of Leadership's Perfect Storm, a groundbreaking book that explores what millennials and rising generations are teaching us about purpose, passion and possibility. But her work goes beyond the page. Susan is the founder of the Swabona Leadership Forum, a powerful lab for transformational change rooted in the Zulu greeting I see you, a concept she uses to teach leaders how to create cultures of belonging and connection. She's coached executives from Fortune 500 companies, spoken at top leadership and women's conferences, and been honored with a congressional award for her impact in both business and community.

Speaker 2:

She also brings a deeply human lens to her work, drawing from her early experience mentoring at-risk youth and championing the gifts that often lie hidden behind bad behavior. Susan believes that the gift lies next to the wound, which I'm excited to talk about. That and that whole chapter, and her mission is to help leaders uncover both in themselves and others. So welcome to the show, susan. Fill in some of the gaps there for us. What did we miss? What do you want to emphasize in that? Like I said, we only have 10 pages of notes, so hopefully we'll find something to talk about, but tell us just a little bit more about who you are after that little bit longer introduction than I thought it was going to be.

Speaker 1:

Thank you, nathan, that was so wonderful.

Speaker 2:

Well, it's all you. I mean, this is all you're doing, you know wow, where do I start?

Speaker 1:

Maybe I can start by saying that you know, I guess the theme of my life has always been that I've always wanted to make a difference in people's lives. When I was young, I'd volunteer in the missions, I'd feed the homeless on Thanksgiving Day and you know, doing those things they gave me such meaning and purpose and touched my heart that I looked for other ways to make a difference and, oddly enough, I discovered the transformative power of films to change lives. And.

Speaker 1:

I was fascinated. Long story short. I ended up on scholarship to the University of Southern California in Los Angeles, which is the film capital of the world, and I graduated with honors with a bachelor's in mathematics and a minor in music something much more practical to please my Japanese American parents. Okay.

Speaker 1:

But I think it was several. Yeah, several years later I entered a competition at the American Film Institute through the directing workshop for women and, against all odds, I was one of a very small select group of women who was chosen to be given a $5,000 grant to do a 30-minute short. And yeah, and so my film Solo went to festivals. We won awards and I eventually ended up in the office of Kathleen Kennedy, who loved the film she was the assistant to Steven Spielberg and I said, oh my gosh, my life is going to change forever. Well, it did not in the way I anticipated. What happened was I just couldn't get hired as a first-time director. This friend of mine he's a TV producer he pulled me aside and he said Susan, I hate to tell you this, but it's so much easier to hire first time men director than women. And I can tell you I was crushed. And he said to me I have to tell you the reality of the way it is.

Speaker 1:

But I was, as I reflected on why I wanted to do films. It was really to help others transform their lives and I began to realize it started with transforming my own. It was a good challenge that I came against, because I started to study really deeply and fiercely with teachers, from the world of doing to teachers to the world of being. And I'll never forget. I was at a networking one day and a business colleague of mine she came up to me and she said, susan, I want some of that. And I went what do you want? She said I've seen the positive transformation in you and I want you to coach me on starting my own business.

Speaker 1:

Now, I got to tell you back then, 20 years ago, coaching wasn't popular and, by the way, I was an employee in sales in a national communications company. But she was really persistent and so I coached her to do the same. The byproduct was is that I became the number one salesperson in my company. She made her first million in her first year and she looked at me and she said, susan, this is how you're going to make a difference in people's lives.

Speaker 1:

And so that was the turning point for me, and that's why I say coaching is my calling, because I didn't seek to be a coach. Wow. And I think the last 13 years I've been really focused on helping executives and senior managers better connect with their younger people, their millennials, their Gen Zs, through this method called Salbona, which, at the heart of it, is really about helping people become the best leaders and the best people possible leaders and the best people possible and the byproduct for my clients has been an increase in productivity and revenue, sometimes by 50%, in only six months. So there's a direct connection and I know that a lot of companies don't get it. Oh my gosh, there are so many ways to go.

Speaker 5:

Oh my gosh, there are so many ways to go of the the clients that you've worked with, the organizations that you've worked with in the different industries, what has changed the most or what has been the most amplified?

Speaker 1:

as you are, you know walking with leaders. I'll tell you a huge turning point for me and I've had many in my life, but this was huge because, as I work was working with companies gosh, over 13 years ago I just started getting calls from leaders talking about they were so frustrated with the millennial generation. They didn't understand them. Like how could someone quit their job without another one to go to? And I had another exec say to me Susan, can you believe this? I had a young man come into my office say how can I have your job in five years? And he had only been with us for six months. So there was so much pain and suffering between generations that I had to find a way to be able to help my clients.

Speaker 1:

Yeah find a way to be able to help my clients, and so this was huge. As I looked for ways to work with the younger generation, it was an executive client of mine. He called me and said I have your answer. He took me to the ghettos of South Central Los Angeles and he introduced me to Tony LeRae, angeles. And he introduced me to Tony LeRae, who was the CEO and founder of Youth Mentoring Connection. And Tony used to be a very successful CEO who sold his business and, for the past 10 years, had been saving and transforming the lives of thousands of inner city millennial youth through his mentoring program with unprecedented results.

Speaker 1:

And I was just so fascinated by his story because he actually I mean went into the community, asked them what it would take to engage with him and they told him he had developed what he called the gift-centered approach, and it was at the heart of the way he led, which he called Salbona leadership.

Speaker 1:

Okay, now, what was cool about this? He invited me to mentoring session because I wanted to see it in action, and when I went to this mentoring session, we had people of all different generations, genders, ethnic backgrounds, but the deep connection that they had and the way they engage each other that brought out the best in who they were. That's when I said to him look, I need you to mentor me. I need to take this into the corporate world, because I not just saw a way of my leaders being able to better engage their young people, but I saw a way of creating cultures of belonging. Yes, and so he mentored me. And the difference for me was is that when I now went into companies, uh, change was long-term and sustainable. And today salbon is. And today Salbona is in over 30 countries Wow.

Speaker 5:

Yeah, congratulations.

Speaker 4:

And how—I'm not sure how to ask this question when you were saying that, is it a peer framework that's helping, or is it a mentor to the younger generation?

Speaker 1:

Well, it's sort of reciprocal, because Salbona in Zulu means I see you, and it's about seeing the whole person.

Speaker 1:

And when I've been, you know, doing keynote speaks and conferences and millennials would come up to me.

Speaker 1:

They would tell me they had lots of needs, but the three needs that kept echoing was to fill her, to use their gifts and to have meaning and purpose in their lives. But, oddly enough, when I asked the entire audience, which consisted of many generations, how many of you want this too, every hand went up because it wasn't a generational need, it was a human need. And so Salbona is so timeless and so powerful in the way that it cuts through generalities, because it deals with the heart of who we are as human beings and what we all want. You know, all of us want to be seen and accepted for who we are good and bad and in Salbono we have found that when you see and accept people for who they are, they reciprocate. They see and accept us for who we are, and this different conversation unfolds. It's not one where we're lecturing to each other with our right-wrong judgments, but one where we're listening and learning from each other with openness and curiosity.

Speaker 5:

Yeah.

Speaker 4:

So fulfilling when you have someone who's asking you for help. Are they asking you for help to see themselves more clearly or to see the people they're working with more clearly?

Speaker 1:

Well, what people ask and what they think they need is not always what they need Right, especially after you do the assessment. So, but usually people are focused on others, that they're doing it wrong. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:

Maybe I can share you a story of one of my clients that will explain kind of how Sal Bono works. And this is just one. I mean there's so many different. There's so much depth to it. We enter through gifts, but there's so much more depth. It we enter through gifts, but there's so much more depth into how we do things, and that's maybe we can talk about later the somatic work that I do as well. But I'm thinking of this client I'll call her Kathy and Kathy was a director of tech support of an IT firm.

Speaker 1:

They engaged my services to work with the executives. She was not one of them. She came to me one day and she was very upset, she was very frustrated. She said, susan, I don't know what to do. I'm going to have to fire my guy, jack, by Friday because he's not making his monthly quotas of new customers serve. Now, jack is a millennial. And she said I've tried everything. Now you have to understand.

Speaker 1:

She was trying to get Jack to conform to the way she was brought up, which is command and control, the carrot and the stick. And so she was giving him incentives, she was giving him reprimands, and nothing was working. She was giving him reprimands and nothing was working. And so, as we had conversation and I started to talk about gifts and stuff, I asked her so what do you think Jack's gifts are? And I remember her looking at me going, uh, I don't even know their own gifts, because it's what we do naturally, what we were born to bring into this world, and we take them for granted, right, our gifts. And so I reframed the question. I said why did you hire him? And her eyes lit up and said oh my gosh, because he's not like any other tech guy. He doesn't talk down to our customers in that techie language. He gains rapport easily. They ask for him by name. He is so generous with his time. He's great at solving the most difficult challenges and people come to him all the time to ask and he tells them how to do it. He's great at coaching. I said, ah, she said, but I don't know what this is going to help because I have to fire him by Friday, I said. I said OK, wait, wait, wait. So let's just step back, I said, and see a bigger picture of this. And I asked her. I said what is Jack's retention rate of his existing client base compared to the other reps? And she looked at me. I don't know but why. I said because he may be more profitable. He may be serving less new ones, but retaining more of his existing base. And she said wow. I said can you find out? She said absolutely so. I said but you're going to have to move on this. So she called me late the next day and she said you'll never believe it. He has the highest retention rate of all the reps and he is more profitable. And I went that is so great. Now go to your boss, buy us more time and let's brainstorm. So she bought us more time and we start brainstorming.

Speaker 1:

The first question I ask when people are talking about people's bad behavior is what is the gift that is trying to come out in his bad behavior? Yes, and she sat and she sat. She goes, wow, she goes well. He's so generous with his time that people take advantage of him Right. He can solve any complex problem that there is. So he's a resource of knowledge, he's good with coaching, he's smart, he's intelligent, he's detailed. She just, you know, once she got on a roll, she got on a roll Right.

Speaker 1:

And the next question was how can we redirect his gifts to better serve you, jack, and the organization. And so she thought about it and she came up with a great idea. She goes what if we had him create a training manual, give away all of his secrets so people won't have to continuously come to him? I said great. I said and how about if you use that training manual to train the entire department, because he's really good at training and coaching? And she said, oh my gosh.

Speaker 1:

I said, but you have to go to Jack and see if you can get him on board. So she did. And I said it would be good for you to start by acknowledging his gifts. So she did, and he was flattered. He said wow, yeah, I feel great, right, so we did many other things, but let me just share with you the results that what we get? The company got a training manual. Jack trained the entire department. Productivity and retention went up across the board. This is the funniest part In Jack breaking down what he did. So naturally well, he started to see areas where he could be more effective and efficient. And now he was making his monthly quotas of new customers, sir. They had three straight consecutive years of the highest customer retention and Kathy was promoted from a director to general managers.

Speaker 5:

Wow, so rewarding. How did you celebrate? How did you celebrate, or what did gratitude look like for you? Because it seems like such a life change that you were a part of going back to this.

Speaker 1:

You know, being on this earth to make a difference this, you know, being on this earth to make a difference. Yeah, you know, I think what touches me most is seeing the change in Kathy and understanding that part of the journey that I didn't share, that we did, was to be able to understand herself.

Speaker 5:

Yes.

Speaker 1:

And how you know, it was really interesting. She had certain gifts that Jack didn't have. We all, you know, a lot of times our gifts are someone else's blind spots and vice versa and for her to start to understand that there was a different way of doing this, that you didn't have to demand it because demanding doesn't work, especially with this younger generation and it allowed her to see a different way that was more long-term and sustainable, and I mean it just changed the whole team to be able to see how they came together, how they got behind it, because that was the way that they increased that retention. I mean it was so beautiful. I mean just really very heartwarming.

Speaker 4:

Is that process that you just described with that wonderful example? Is that how most of your leaders experience a transformative work is by starting with the ones that they think are the problem, but then it turns back on them?

Speaker 1:

Well, let's see. Okay, I'll share. I've got so many stories in my head because I've had so many. I'll share with you another story, and this may get into the semantic work that I do, which will be okay. I had a CEO. He called me, his head of production for an event planning company. I'll call her Beth. Beth was on the verge of burnout and, if you can imagine, she's the head of production for an event planning company, so you can only guess that her core gift was planning. There wasn't anything that Beth didn't plan. Okay, and planning is also a way to control things as well too. Okay. So when I came in, she was on the verge of burnout. He knew she had, she had such talent, she's very creative in her approaches and everything else.

Speaker 1:

There was also a lot of complaints from her people, her millennials, saying that she, you know, controlled them too much and she didn't give them the opportunity to use their gifts and things like that.

Speaker 1:

So what happened is is that I entered through Sal Bono her gifts, and she saw her gift of planning. But she also saw that she overused her gift until it became her weakness. And to every gift, there's another side to the gift, what we're blind to a need to learn. And I asked Beth, what do you think that other side? And of course, she said not planning. I said no, no, no, beth. I said what do you have a hard time do If you plan what's? And she said uh, you mean going with the flow, being flexible. I said yeah, yeah, no-transcript, yeah, she said I would. She said but, susan, there are so many really wonderful memories I have with certain things to give away. I said that's okay. I said this is not going to be about getting rid of stuff. This is about the feeling that you're going to notice in your body when you let go of something that's very dear to you, and we're going to create a ritual around it. I also found out she was a wonderful photographer. So the ritual we created was when she there were things she could just throw away, but other things. When she held them. She would hold them and she would remember the memory of what it brought to her and then feel the release of letting it go as she took a photo of it, and later she created a photography book of all her beautiful stuff that she gave away, and she had three piles of who she was going to donate it to, so she knew it was going to go to someone else, right. So she started to get used to that feeling in her body of letting go and it was the door opener for us to then.

Speaker 1:

Her biggest breakthrough came when she one day told me she always wanted to do trapezing. I said what, what, what? Trapeze? Yeah, hindsight, yeah. So she said when she was young and in New York she saw a trapeze app and she said when I was young, I always wanted to do this. So I said to her are you open to doing it now? Would you be open to it? She said no, I would.

Speaker 1:

So I found the New York School of Trapeze on the Santa Monica Pier. I went to talk to the guy there. I said hey look. I said can I ask you? This is what I need done, and he laughed. He said I have many execs that do similar things with us. And I said, great. So Beth started to repeat lessons and I got to tell you this is the hugest breakthrough, because she replaced the feeling of fear of letting go with a feeling of freedom. And now, all of a sudden she started to let go of whole projects. She started to get her balance back. She started to spend more time with her husband. People loved it because they could start to contribute. So that's sort of like a somatic practice, but you know it's one of my bigger somatic practices. I have smaller, so I don't want you guys to get too scared.

Speaker 5:

Did you get up on the trapeze? Did you join her ever Did?

Speaker 3:

you ever join her on the trapeze? Did I ever join?

Speaker 1:

her ever. You know I never did, but it would be something. This is what I did. To get comfortable with uncertainty, I went skydiving. Okay, that'll do. You hope it goes. That being in uncertainty is not what we think. We have this big monster. We create around uncertainty that we are so fearful of it. But when I jumped out of that plane and we were doing tandem, because they don't let you jump out by yourself I thought I was just going to drop and I didn't drop. The wind underneath me lifted me and I felt like I was flying like Superman. It was so amazingly cool and that feeling is like with me so that when I get that really scared feeling of doing something, I remember I bring that back. That's an anchor for me and it allows me to get centered and grounded and make better decisions.

Speaker 4:

So, susan, I got a question about the personal rituals that you create. Is this something, are the rituals something that you are creating for all the people that you're working with, and are they all custom?

Speaker 1:

Good question. So what happens is, I think, what makes me different than a lot of maybe other executive coaches. I don't have a program that I put people through the first month. I find out who they are and I do it in a very different way. So most people do 360s. I have found in my lifetime that when I did 360s the exec would get back to 360 and say get very defensive and say I know who said this.

Speaker 1:

Judy said this she doesn't know me. Oh, billy, nah, yeah, and they wouldn't, I would fight. You know, it was like a tug of war between what they would believe and what they wouldn't. So, in my assessment, I have them choose five people, even what they wouldn't. So, in my assessment, I have them choose five people, people that love them, adore them, will be honest with them and that they trust. It could be their spouse, it could be their children, it could be their best friend from college. It doesn't have to be anybody in the organization they get, and these five people tell them what their gifts are and define it, what their blind spots are, define it in terms of their experience with this person. And what happens is when they get it back and they read it I've had men cry, I've had you know. I mean, they just are so touched and you get such depth in this, such depth, so much depth, and then I give them.

Speaker 1:

So there's a couple of other pre-coaching assignments, once called my path to a life of purpose, and all these questions allow me to filter the themes of who this person is on a deep level.

Speaker 1:

And then I, we have this, we have conversation, I have very deep conversation.

Speaker 1:

I ask them all about their answers, because how they answer sure tells me a lot about who they are, just in what they write and how they write it. And after I ask all these questions, we do an intake, because I ask them to focus on three behavioral areas that align with their external goals that they want to work on, and I give them examples of behavioral areas, yep, so they may talk about working on. I want to work on my patients, I want to work on letting go of control or whatever, and I then come up with a one sheet which has this is our purpose, where we're headed, these are the behavioral outcomes to get there. And by then they're really in tune, because in the three, four, five, five hours and I don't do a straight I'm slowly coaching them to understand who they are. And so they get this one sheet. If they approve it, it becomes the outline for me to then create a four stage program of practices, exercises, self-observations that are customized to who they are. And it's powerful because uh, also, I just have to say that it's not extra stuff I find out what they're doing in their life right and then I create a practice from there right

Speaker 5:

well, and I hear it as the heart of what you were saying. I see you that that even in the coaching and in the help and moving them from one place to another, it starts first with them being seen. A lot of times we also have very non-traditional approaches and a lot of times our clients will say like I feel seen, I feel heard, it's almost like you feel us, and I think it's easy to put people through a program and it's a lot more difficult but also very artistic and rewarding to really meet people where they're at and start to uncover, like you were mentioning, uncover their gifts and kind of put them on a path of growing in the way that is most conducive to them. It's just beautiful.

Speaker 4:

And part of the challenge that we often find is that, as much as people want to share with us where they think they're at, it's a long journey for them to get from where their head is at to where they are actually, and that process of us sitting and listening to people talk like that may take a long time before we realize, or before the person realizes, where they are, not just professionally, but where they're at personally, where they're at emotionally, how it is that they're truly perceiving the world around them, because I think that there are, um, so many people that are reflecting noise and not their identity to you.

Speaker 4:

So my question for you is do you feel like, when you're talking to your people that you're coaching, are you feeling them kind of settling in to this idea that they are being seen, where they become more comfortable sharing with you, who they are more comfortable with their challenges? Do you find that that takes time? Or are there people that are sometimes just they're just so done that they're willing to be seen quite clearly? Quite quickly, please see me now. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

I think that's just kind of the reason why I like the way that I do this assessment of the reason why I like the way that I do this assessment, because, and then, picking five people who they trust and having them tell them what their gifts are and define them and what their blind spots in terms of their experience.

Speaker 1:

And then when I go over, so what did Judy mean when she said this? What do you think she meant? And all of sudden the stuff that they would hide from me comes out because of the people that they've known their lifetime, that they trust, and it just helps me to build trust very quickly with them, because the people that they trust are saying what I may be sensing, but it would be hard for me to just go there without having someone else say it. And so that's what I find very powerful in what I do, and it's just I can tell you. I create this amazingly safe space for them because in just asking them to explain what you do you think this person means, and then I give them say you know um, a reference to do you think it might be because of this. Or I see you said that you are um, that you haven't.

Speaker 1:

I'm thinking of a client I'm working with right now. You're saying that you love to take risk, but then I see, and you don't like to control things, you don't like to let people do what they do. But on the other side I see this other person saying that one of the things that happens for you with your people is is that you know so much that you give them the answer before they have a chance to give their idea, and that's a method of controlling, and so I may bring pieces together and all of a sudden they go. Oh wow. Okay.

Speaker 1:

You know what, and so I'm building this trust that I could not have as quickly as I have, because these people are saying it for me.

Speaker 5:

Mm, hmm in your life's practice. Do you feel like even your love of film helped and directing has helped the ways that you allow people to live into their story or uncover their story? Are there any connections there, or is that just me wondering?

Speaker 1:

No, I mean there's definitely connection there, because I think entertainment, the arts, it helps me to be very creative and innovative in the way that I see the world and I can. I think one of the things that it helped me develop is the sixth sense. I can sense things about people and help them connect the dots as to why they're doing what they're doing, and I don't even know. It's a feeling, it's a sense in my body.

Speaker 1:

I was working with one client. He had become very successful because he called me, because he had been promoted to now director of operations of all these restaurants, and the reason was is the single restaurant that he was the general manager had three consecutive years of record breaking profits, had three consecutive years of record-breaking profits. When I found out why he was successful at this restaurant was because he was there 24-7 and like watching everything, he said, yeah, I don't think this is duplicatable. I said, no, I don't think it's either. But what was funny is trust is not black and white, because he did trust his people up to a certain point. We talked about it and his people told me they loved him, they felt he trusted them fully. But there was something that I kept feeling and all the excuses he gave to me of why it was hard to fully let go, that had to deal with his own self-trust of himself.

Speaker 1:

And something that was deeper, and all I did was I started to say to him you know what I feel? Something deeper. And then I would let it go. And one day, in the first month when we were working together, he said I don't think I ever told you that I was molested by a baby sitter when.

Speaker 1:

I was a young boy and I just went wow. I said have you been getting therapy for that? And he said yeah, I have. He said I haven't had in the last three years I've been so busy. I said okay, and I said do you think that might have to do with you not being able to trust yourself so you can fully trust others? And he just stopped and I remember the blank stare and he looked at me and said I think you got it. So I helped him get a therapist, get reconnected in therapist, and the two of us worked together and I mean he's just come out of it so beautifully.

Speaker 4:

But connecting those dots I think, being in an innovative, very creative industry like film and stuff, you're constantly connecting things that don't look connected are you finding any themes um, with the people that you're working with that have been becoming themes that have become more dominant in the last four or five years? Is there anything that you're seeing that's maybe changing in people's personalities, their thresholds for uncertainty? Are you finding people just more willing to ask for help? Is there anything that you're seeing like as a professional, like this is a trend line I'm definitely seeing over and over again.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, well, currently, you know, millennials are at the high end 44 and they're definitely coming to me. Millennials absolutely know that they need help. Generations prior, gen X and boomers especially boomers know that they're going to retire. So if they come to me for help, it's because the board of directors told them that they have five more years, and so it's like holding their breath for five years and I let them know look, if you're going to hold your breath for five years, I'm not the right coach for you. But what happens, I'm finding, is that, first of all, young people they do want guidance and help. The hardest part about them getting guidance and help is that most companies today still don't put aside a budget for growth and development. Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 1:

And so it's very hard for them to pay for, you know, an executive coach, because good executive coaches, like we all are, we're expensive, yes, yes. So what I've been doing out of the goodness of my heart is is that I've actually coached them how to negotiate with their company to get them to pay for the coaching. And I say to my millennials out there, all you millennials out there, that when you are going into any kind of leadership role, you have to negotiate in your agreement a budget for coaching, and if a company's not willing to do that, you're probably going into the wrong company. If the company's open to it, then you're going to a great company, because the most successful companies require their senior managers to have coaches. That's right. Like the Nikes of the world, goldman Sachs, all these. That's right. Like the Nikes of the world, goldman Sachs, all these.

Speaker 4:

So yeah, yeah, that's definitely a trend that we are experiencing, the trend being organizations willing to make investments in their leaders and the strata or the layer of leadership. I don't know if we're seeing a trend line there, it's just the investment in, and so that's one of the things that we're noticing is that there are people out there that not are not only asking for help, but there's an executive layer of leadership that's realizing we have to invest because of whatever the churn is, you know that's along their their journey. I think that part of you know what you're bringing to the conversation, to the conversation is focusing on what people bring, and we also find that people want to be seen, heard and understood, and that really is rooted in what they're bringing. Can you speak to the like, once people are noticed for their gifts and their contribution, how that may shape or change the way that they see themselves?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you know, I mean one of the, I think, strongest practices and it's very simple that I give to my clients is what we call gift-centered praise, and it's different than regular praise. It's about praising the action and then the gift behind the action and then the impact that it has on them the person doing it, the organization. The idea is is that when, if you only praise the action no-transcript but saying, oh my gosh, jack, you have your gift of organization. I see how you just are very much. You know you can find things, you put things where they should be, whatever, and you praise that, and the impact that it has on me is is that I never have to worry about you borrowing anything, I never have to worry about trying to look for something or whatever. That person is going to find other ways to use his gift in the organization rather than just do the same action.

Speaker 1:

And so they light up when you talk about the gift, go, oh my gosh, I do have that. I mean, even if they don't say you can see their eyes light up and go, whoa, okay. And I've had my executives say like things, like jack, how can you take this gift of organization and utilize it in the project that we're doing to bring it all together? Yeah.

Speaker 1:

And it's like now you're asking me to do something that has that I can use my gift to get the results, and you're not telling me the exact way to do it. You're saying here's the result I want. Do it in your way, using your gifts. That's when they get very excited and passionate and very focused on yeah, okay, this is cool, right.

Speaker 5:

Yeah, because I hear too that it builds that relational connection so right. So it's not just it's purposeful praise, it's specific, it's calling out the gifts and I think it's when you watch, when we watch team members like start to connect, like you actually see me doing this, or it's valuable you can tell that there is a kind of relational connection that helps build into the culture.

Speaker 4:

Did you mention earlier that you do work with teams around these concepts? Yeah, I do.

Speaker 1:

I do. I work with teams, I do retreats, I do group coaching, various other things too. Yeah, I don't do. You know what I do do training but I don't do training Meaning. I have found that training just gives people insight. They get all very excited and then they go back and life comes along and then they forget it. That's right. So the group coaching model that I have is it's several group coaching sessions and it's individual coaching sessions in between that. So what we're doing is we're building a foundation, we're building a new habit that leads to a new competency. That's right and that's really, really important.

Speaker 5:

Susan, is there anything that you would want us to ask you in particular, or to tee you up to say something that you really want to share into the world?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you know what there is. And this comes up because, well, let me just say this we are all going through a very interesting and challenging times right now. Many companies are downsizing, they're laying off employees. On the other side, employees are leaving companies not, the culture is changing in a way that they are not aligned with it. That's correct, and what happens when things get challenging?

Speaker 1:

The first thing that companies cut is the budget for growth and development of their people of their people because they do not realize and they do not see the direct connection between developing and growing your people into the best leaders possible and increase productivity, revenues and profitability. And, however, the most successful companies do see that connection, and this is actually backed up by a recent survey by the Gallup organization their 2025 State of the Global Workplace survey, where they point to the fact that the companies that have seen the least amount of decrease in engagement are the ones that put money into training and developing the managers. That put money into training and developing the managers Because if the managers are engaged, then their people are engaged. And today we're in a crisis mode Globally. What do they say? 79% of employees are disengaged worldwide, and that's because 73% of managers are disengaged, and when we think about what's costing is they said it's costing our global economy $438 billion in lost productivity. That's right.

Speaker 1:

And that doesn't wake people up and going whoa. And they say where the managers go, the people follow. So many managers are not being trained, not being coached, not being given the tools they need and they want it, you know, especially with AI and automation happening. That's right, and the biggest complaint is that they feel that their bosses are ignoring it rather than stepping into it.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, that last part of being ignored. I think that you know the societal situation that you're mentioning. I feel that there are people that do feel that sense of lostness and they're desiring being found anywhere, and when you can create that oh, I see you, I've found you in the workplace I think that that can be a real catalytic place for transformation to occur, because there's usually strong relationships there or history of relationship. There may be resources for investment, like you're saying, and you spend so much time with your colleagues. I think it's a great place where people can be seen, and I feel that wherever we can, like you said earlier, wherever we can create safe places for people to feel that they are seen and they have a sense of belonging, that the consequence of that is increased productivity, higher levels of engagement and even an elevated sense of vision, not necessarily a corporate or organizational vision, but an elevated vision of oneself.

Speaker 4:

Like I, can be different. I think that part of the mismanagement of gifts is that we don't see the gifts in a generative state ourselves, because the environment itself is suffocating or taking the oxygen out of the place where we can't thrive in that gift-centered way that you're speaking, to focus on getting people's attention to the good and right side of who they are, how to name it in others, and to how you ask people to demonstrate the courage to transcend generational boundaries and stereotypes to see others as humans. First, you know generational titles.

Speaker 1:

second, yeah, first, you know, generational title second. Yeah, and one thing I want to say too the reason like the practice of gifts under praise is so powerful is because it puts a leader into observation mode. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

And it gets them to start to observe the actions of their people. And out of their actions, what is that gift? And we are so in a society where we're go, go, go that when you go, go, go you cannot connect with your people. But if you're forced to observe them and you're forced to be able to do gifts and praise, you have to see them, you have to watch them, you have to observe them, and it slows you down. And this is why I love the gift-centered praise, rather than doing an assessment where you're told they're gifts and then you're looking for the gift. It's different than when you're looking at who they are and then you discover it.

Speaker 1:

And you go, oh wow. No, yeah so.

Speaker 2:

Susan, this has been so great. Thank you so much for taking the time. We're going to have links in our show notes to all of your resources. But I'm wondering, just to kind of close things out here, if you could maybe share just your, your quickest, shortest sort of nugget of someone who's been listening to this maybe it's a manager who is interested in this Sawbona culture, Like what's the kind of lowest hanging fruit, Because we have to start somewhere that you could share. That would be, you know, just taking one step onto that journey of seeing the uniqueness in their people. Like what would just be kind of that one little takeaway. Maybe someone could turn off the recording and go walk out into their hallway and say, like we're going to just try this today and practice.

Speaker 1:

Okay. So I'm thinking about a practice that's a really powerful practice, simple, it's called walk in beauty. All my clients love walk in beauty. Because what it is? It's a meditative walk where when you're walking, you walk slower than you normally walk. If you have a thought, you say, thinking, you let it go and then you connect with nature and you literally stop in front of things that draw you in, of beauty, and you receive the beauty of a tree. And in being able just to open your heart and just receive beauty I mean because we actually naturally do it when we hike and stuff people slow down, they go. Oh, my God, the sunset, the lake, really being able to receive that beauty allows us then to be able to receive the beauty in our people and to be able to see their gifts. So walking in nature is powerful, that's great. Slow in nature, that's so good.

Speaker 2:

That's good, thank you, I mean that's perfect. Oh. I love that, that's something that we can go do right now. Well, susan, thank you so much. We really appreciate you taking the time. Any final thoughts? Brian Linda final comments.

Speaker 4:

No, that was.

Speaker 5:

I'm still on my own little beauty walk we would like we would officially like to be in your tribe.

Speaker 2:

Yes absolutely, absolutely. Thank you, susan. We really appreciate it. We will hopefully talk to you again soon. Yeah, thank you so much. It was an honor to be here with all of you. There is a link in our show notes if you want to learn more about Susan and her work, but thank you to everyone for listening to the Leadership Vision podcast, our show helping you build positive team culture. To learn more about us, you can click the link in the show notes as I said, or visit us on the web at leadershipvisionconsultingcom.

Speaker 2:

We would appreciate it if you would follow us wherever you get your podcasts. Follow us on social, sign up for our free email newsletter. But, most importantly, pass this along to someone who you think could benefit from our message. My name is Nathan Freeberg and, on behalf of our entire team, thanks for listening.