How Leaders Help Their Teams Fly: Trust, Transformation, and the Courage to Let Go

In this episode, we explore Chapter 4 of Unfolded: Lessons in Transformation from an Origami Crane. Dr. Linda and Brian Schubring unpack what it means for teams and organizations to “fly” — to embrace risk, trust, and transformation as they step into new levels of growth.

Topics Covered:

• Recognizing when your team is in the fly stage
• Why trust is the foundation of all growth
• How leaders create safety and courage for flight
• Balancing support and risk in team development
• Celebrating progress (and crashes) together
• The leader’s role as the “Eagle” — seeing and affirming others

Resources:

• Unfolded: Lessons in Transformation from an Origami Crane (Book)
• [Previous Episode: Fly 1: Why Every Transformation Needs a Little Courage to Take Flight
• Leadership Vision Consulting Website

🎉 Unfolded is a National Bestseller!
#1 in Business & #5 Overall on USA Today
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Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome & Why Flight Matters
• 3:49 Defining Flight For Teams
• 6:13 Entering The Big Playground
• 9:59 Supportive Community And Trust
• 13:23 Is It Always Time To Fly
• 17:13 Managing Risk And Comfort Zones
• 20:03 Context Sets The Flight Plan
• 24:13 Practical Steps To Empower Flight
• 28:29 What Flight Looks Like In Practice
• 32:13 Celebrate Attempts, Name The Wins

Transcript

SPEAKER_02: 0:53

Trust the process and grow your palate for transformation. It's not to be feared, even though it's scary. It's not to be feared, even though it's scary. And the transformation will only make the world a better place if we find ways to transform the world into more kind places, more growing places, more evolved places that give dignity and courage to each person.

SPEAKER_01: 1:26

You are listening to the Leadership Vision Podcast, our show helping you build positive team culture. Our consulting firm has been doing this work for the past 25 years so that leaders are mentally engaged and emotionally healthy. To learn more about our work, you can click the link in the show notes or visit us on the web at Leadership Vision Consulting.com. Hello everyone, my name is Nathan Freeberg, and today in the podcast, we are continuing on our journey through Unfolded Lessons in Transformation from an Orgami Crane, the award-winning book by Dr. Linda and Brian Schubring. We're going to be talking about chapter four, the chapter where OC finally learns to fly. But we're going to be talking about it from the perspective of teams and organizations. Because for many of them, flying is about stepping into new challenges where the risks are higher and the opportunities are greater. So in this conversation, we're going to be talking about how to recognize when your team or organization is in the fly stage, where the playground is bigger, the stakes are higher, and trust is essential, why belief and support from teammates is crucial and how leaders can nurture a culture where people help one another refold their wings, and how to handle resistance or doubt, and how leaders can take on the role of the eagle, which we'll talk a lot more about, offering perspective, encouragement, and guidance through that transformation. Now, if your team is facing big challenges or preparing for a new horizon, this episode will give you the language and insight and tools for how to take that flight together. Enjoy. Brian and Linda, welcome back to the Leadership Vision Podcast. How are you doing today? Well, since the last time we met. I'm gonna pretend like we haven't just been spent the last 45 minutes together.

SPEAKER_02: 3:11

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01: 3:12

Just kidding. We're still doing great. You guys are helping a lot of teams fly these days. I think yesterday you're working with some clients. Yes. What days today? Today's two. Yeah, yeah, that was yesterday. And then is it tomorrow? You're f you're literally flying over an ocean to go help some other teams in Europe. Yep. Yep. We just recorded uh the chapter about fly where we talked about flying from the individual, what that means. Uh I'm gonna assume everybody has already listened to that. So just really quick frame this, put some put some parameters around flying from the perspective of the team or organization.

SPEAKER_00: 3:49

Yeah, let's let's frame this up for a second. What does fly even mean? Um, in in a business context, in a team context, um, some of the ideas that emerge when you think about what does fly mean, it in one context, it would be let them lead, like let your people lead, let people influence, let people contribute, let them be creative, let them be innovative, um, let them practice. And this whole idea of giving people the chance to fly means that you're trusting in a person's experience and their expertise. You're trusting them to influence other people, you're trusting them for the next three, four, five, six steps forward or for the next six months when you're pursuing some kind of objective. And by flight, it means that you are allowing people to have their hands on the controls. They're able to push the buttons and make the decisions, they're able to ask for help and they're able to guide without someone saying, Oh, I didn't mean four degrees to the right, I meant three. And so that this idea of fly is we have enabled and empowered people to take that next step. We have actually given people permission to lead. We've taken away some of the obstacles and barriers, and we're allowing people to work together, trust in themselves, and influence a person, a team, or an organization toward the next milestone or horizon. I like that. And that's gonna look different in every context on every team for the dynamics that we're about to talk about. So seep back up, trade tables up there in the position.

SPEAKER_01: 5:25

Buckle up. How Linda, how do so this chapter opens with the big playground? How do teams or organizations know when they've reached the big playground? I think we're sort of uh using that to sort of indicate when we've reached this fly stage versus like we're still in the tri-stage or maybe the play stage or we're still trying to figure out our dream. How do leaders kind of know when they're when they're there?

SPEAKER_02: 5:51

Sometimes you don't.

SPEAKER_01: 5:55

Fair enough.

SPEAKER_02: 5:56

And in in part because I think there's so many times where we've we're in the try stage and we're just practicing practicing, and all of a sudden the lights flipped on and you the spotlights on you, and you realize, oh, I'm in a different place where what we thought was flying was actually just practice.

SPEAKER_03: 6:18

Oh, interesting.

SPEAKER_02: 6:19

And when I think about the big playground, I love your question, Nathan. Because how do you know? Because things look a little bit more challenging, things feel a little bit more unknown, there's more uncertainty, and the oftentimes the only thing that is certain is what you know of your skills and expertise, and what you know and what kind of trust has been built among your colleagues or teammates or partners on this journey. And when you look around and you're in a brand new playground and you have bigger things to respond to, all of a sudden it is just the it's it's the shudder moment. It's the oh, like, okay. This is the big stakes. This is the uh this is not Kansas anymore. We are not just messing around. We we are off to see the wizard. Oh that wizard.

SPEAKER_01: 7:21

Yeah. That Kansas. That Kansas. So this idea of a supportive community. Yes. Like we've talked about that ad nauseum with our courses, with like we've done whole things on trust, right? So I guess what I'm really asking is like what more do we have to say about this? Why are we bringing this up here? Uh it's obviously important. It's like a huge part of this. So, how do we want to frame this, a part of this conversation? As we talk about chapter four here, in light of flying, in light in the context of teams. Does that make sense? I don't know.

SPEAKER_00: 7:51

Yeah, I approach this question differently because I think that the time to fly, that it's always the time to fly. Oh, I think every team, every context, every culture, there's a place and a time to fly right now. Interesting. Yeah, that to me, and I think that the supportive community is often it's it that there's zero flight instructors in that community. They're all building monoplanes. And it's just and there there are some so there's that challenge for me, is I sometimes the greatest frustration that I have with our work is people's inability to shift their focus three degrees to the right to see the runway. Like it's always time to fly. Like there's always a moment to fly. And I think that sometimes we get stuck in a comfort zone from our supporter community where we understand who we are, we understand our role on the team, we understand our team members, and that provides us a level of comfort too, like Linda said, to continue to practice and try without the risk that necessitates or the risk that comes before flight. And that risk is a challenge zone, it provides discomfort, there's some reshaping that happens. I believe that oftentimes leaders are reluctant to ask people to fly because it's going to involve an element of risk and unknown that they haven't seen before. And that's the whole point.

SPEAKER_02: 9:24

I really love your sentiments, but I I I don't think it's always time to fly. And the reason I don't think it's always time to fly is when you initially step into the b big playground, you can always be dreaming of flight, but you have to be putting things back together. I think flight is so momentary. And and I wonder with the supportive community, if it's really about figuring out your roles and your responsibilities in a bigger, more high-stakes environment. And and for me, I think the first question that I ask is, how do I be the supportive community I want to see in the world? How do I be the supportive community I want to see in the world? What role can I play? And sometimes we we over-rotate when it feels really big. And we get like even like I'll get really anxious, like we're about to fly. Do we have everything? Do you have the things that you need? And sometimes just trusting the process or leaning on other people that have big dreams, that really believe that it is always time to fly, it makes actually a good partnership. Yeah. I might want to offer another opinion. Okay, I like this.

SPEAKER_00: 10:41

I think that in that supportive community, there are people that are actually focused on and seeing all the flight that's happening in an organization and are thinking to themselves, I'm a pilot, why am I not flying? And so part of my perspective is when teams become focused on their immediate task, that's all fine and good. And sometimes, like OC, we we miss the moment to look up and watch the flying that's happening around us. Because I think that some of the greatest learning comes from watching people in flight within the organization that we're in who are setting the example and setting the model. And I want to ask people can you see yourself in flight? Comma, like them, comma, in this organization, can you see it? Because sometimes I show up and I think this supportive community is here for me, for me to fly. And if I miss the opportunity that the community has for me, I'm missing my moment for flight. Yeah. Do you want to disagree?

SPEAKER_02: 11:43

No, I agree with that. It's just a different perspective.

SPEAKER_00: 11:45

Right.

SPEAKER_02: 11:46

It's a different perspective because I think we're saying the same thing, and that is trust is essential. Trusting ourselves, trusting each other, um, investing in the trust-building activities that are necessary to demonstrate to someone that I got your back and I'm with you. And we don't know exactly what we're doing, but I have a plan, or I have some encouragement, or I even have some critical friend feedback.

SPEAKER_00: 12:13

And that's the threat of familiar trust, because familiar trust can create a comfort for us. We know we're trusting, but we're not actually trusting our talent to elevate us to the next level. And that's a different kind of trust. That's the trust that threatens. That there's a trust that threatens normality, there's a trust that threatens familiar, and that's the trusting in ourselves in this moment that I have what it takes to fly.

SPEAKER_01: 12:37

Hmm. So good. How as a leader, how do you I know I'm speaking right to you.

SPEAKER_00: 12:42

I understand. You can cut that part out.

SPEAKER_01: 12:44

Nope. As a leader, okay. Next question. As a leader, there's questions. Um how do leaders cultivate that idea of resilience, of ignoring the doubters and naysayers? You know, I think sometimes teams can get so trusting of one another that they can get really good at ignoring the outside voices, but maybe to their detriment. Or the opposite, where they get so aware of the outside voices that they they can't overcome it. So, how do how do you help lead the leaders you work with, how do you help them cultivate this resilience on their team so that their team can succeed and fly? Oh, Nathan. Brian's waving his hand.

SPEAKER_00: 13:31

Um, Nathan, um, I think the first step for leaders is to recognize the type of flight environment that they're in, because alas, let's recognize that there are some environments and the best they can do is make paper planes. There are other environments, may I argue, that are like Orville and Wilbur Wright, where you're on a grassy hillside with some wicker and cloth, something that you hope is going to fly. There are other leaders that are leading um teams that are they are a regional airport. There are others that are major airports, there are others that are Frankfurt airports, there are others that are sending missions to Mars. Recognize the environment that you're in and the potential of flight within your environment, then ask who's here to become or who is here to help enable and empower that type of flight. Because sometimes we work with leaders and they misinterpret their current regional airport for a NASA site. Ah and context shapes everything. Yeah. If we're on a grassy hillside, let's work with that because guess what? Flight can happen there. If we're at a major airport and flight looks a little bit different, that's where we are. And each one of those contexts will shape the expectations. Neither one is right or wrong. They are all who we are and where we are, and so we respect the potential for flight based on the context that we're in. Because remember, remember, if there's someone who shows up who has greater potential than the grassy hillside, like the book, there's a gate. There's always a way out.

SPEAKER_01: 15:18

Make it more practical.

SPEAKER_00: 15:21

Yesterday, Nathan, just a quick story. Yeah, I saw alongside the marathon some guy that was dressed in a flight suit. Like he had on the actual helmet with the mask and the hoses. I'm like, what is this guy in a flight suit? What is this? Like he was ready to fly. Wrong context, but he was ready to go. He might have had a parachute on. I've no, I've never seen that before.

SPEAKER_01: 15:46

That's hilarious. Well, you know, you just gotta embrace whatever the world gives you. Go go back and make it very practical because I'm I'm I'm thinking about the person who's listening to us being like, Man, I just got my team is just constantly telling me of the hurdles, and it doesn't seem like we can get over them. How do I I can only give them so many, we got this speeches before it just feels silly.

SPEAKER_02: 16:13

I think that's the invitation that we give to leaders to practice trusting their people, teaching their people what it means and what it feels like to be trusted. Some people are so afraid, especially in perfectionistic kind of environments, to make a mistake. And and then to an earlier sentiment you you gave Nathan was like you you just kind of ignore them. And I think if we if we practice ignoring too much, then we we miss some of the uh self-acceptance, we miss some of the you know radical uh self-awareness that is necessary to do the big things like flying. And I think it's not necessary uh ignoring, but it's not giving too much value to the voices that are at the end of the day distracting. And Brian will often say this is it noise or is it necessary? Yeah. Is that noise or necessary? And in this moment, no, we're about to take off. Yep, I know we haven't built the runway yet. Just trust me, get in this plane and it'll be done by the time we need to take off or come back and land.

SPEAKER_00: 17:31

So for leaders to make this super practical, I think the first question to ask is what does flight look like here in this context? So, what does flight look like? Um, just naming that, demonstrating that, and and ask, and then the second question leaders can ask is who's flying here right now? Because you we want that that model. We want people to be able to visualize what flight actually looks like. The second step, then look at your people and then begin to understand some of the of the different ways that people show up and how do people show up demonstrate their readiness and willingness for flight? And there are some people that are gonna be ready for flight. There are other people who are gonna be in that place where they can help, and in that helping, they're gonna understand what it takes. And maybe there are those other people on the team that are in that place where they have an observational role because we're not quite sure of their readiness or their capacity to fly. So a leader's ability to assess and to know and to connect with people to understand who's ready is really important because, third, leaders need to be able to empower and release people to fly, like we said earlier, to lead and to influence, to be able to demonstrate to other people what it takes and to learn it in the process. Because when people fly, there are others that are watching and getting ready to do that. And there are others that may say to themselves, I don't know if I'm really ready for this flying at all. And that's part of why we want to encourage leaders and teams to actually practice flying because I think it really helps bring the team together. And it, you know, it does this is not meant to sound cliche, it actually helps to embody the beliefs and values of an organization. And when you are working towards something together, being in flight together is actually a way that we can streamline aerodynamically an entire team to get somewhere more efficiently than we would if we never had the chance to fly in the first place.

SPEAKER_01: 19:31

We have an old blog post or podcast about alignment. Well, yeah, but geese and flying and that whole thing. You know, something just sort of a side note that I appreciate about this metaphor is that you could just read it and be like ho hum, like that's a great idea, or that's an interesting concept. But then even like that, when I pressed you on drilling down on this one idea. One, two, three, four, five, you give me six like steps that are like things that I know that you do with clients and help them.

SPEAKER_00: 20:04

Because we've seen it.

SPEAKER_01: 20:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 20:05

Yeah. I think for to use this flight analogy or this this flight metaphor, I think that there are some organizations where their flight looks like a cockpit, where there are two or three people with specific roles. Um, there are certain environments where flight looks like that flock of geese, where it's continually moving, there and people are taking turns, and there's all this kind of like subtle motion that's happening. And there are other organizations that we work with where, and I'm not exaggerating, when they take flight, it's like the blue angels. Like there's this tight formation, everybody has these super practiced roles, they know exactly what they're gonna do. And if you veer right or left by just a small amount, disaster awaits because there's so much at stake. Yeah. Um, and so you just don't fly randomly. And so there are just many different visions of what flight looks like.

SPEAKER_01: 20:59

So I want to I want to talk about we're almost done here, but kind of celebrating the process together. So OC's flying, she crashes, she crashes, people are like messing her up, she kind of gets over that. Uh, and then she's flying in YC, the young crane, is like, I love you, you're doing it, keep going. And OC's like, yeah. How what is that? Like, you probably can't do that in a in a corporate office. But what does that look like? I mean, hey, we're getting donuts on Friday. Like, what are the practical, like, how do I encourage my teen without being cheesy, without being weird Michael Scott? Like, what are some of the ways to celebrate the process, the progress, even when it's you know, full of falls?

SPEAKER_02: 21:48

Sometimes it's just naming it. Uh naming that, wow, we just flew.

SPEAKER_03: 21:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 21:55

And then the some, you know, some teams do a postmortem and they sure view everything that went well and that didn't go well, and things that surprise them, and things that they will lean into the next time they take flight. And so usually it is a moment, a celebration could be acknowledgement of the accomplishment and and reminding teammates this is what we learned. Man, we we're ready for our next flight. And Brian says we're always ready. So, um, and so how how do we how do we keep doing that? There are some teams though that are just okay, next flight. Okay, next flight. And it almost takes the wind out of a team's sails of, but I just I wanted to be acknowledged, I want to be seen for having the plan. Yeah, I want to be seen for having my own realization of the role that I want to play in the next flight, right? So the importance of naming it is big.

SPEAKER_00: 22:53

I have two examples for this one. Think we got uh some clients that we're working with. One client that we're working with, this flight metaphor aligns pretty tightly because what she's trying to do is as the CEO, she's trying to create a mentality that we're all on an aircraft carrier, and we all have a mission that that we're on. And the idea behind this metaphor is that each member of the leadership team is a pilot. Like they have their own mission, they have their own calling, but they have the training that puts them on the deck of an aircraft carrier and all the complications that that go with that, and that kind of expectation of this is what flight looks like, this is my expectation around flight, it just creates a very strong metaphor. I have another example of Nathan back to the celebrating. When you had the expectation, like the first example, you celebrate along the process. And so we were with a client yesterday, and I'm standing in the back just talking to the COO. And the COO and I are talking about one of their leaders that they're giving a chance to take flight. And I said, Well, how's it going with her? And and he was talking about what's happened over the last six months when they've given this leader the opportunity to practice. And he was saying, basically, this is what it looked like when she practiced flying. This is what it looked like when she did this. And he had recognized the steps that she had taken, the risks that she had made to actually be leading in context and leading with people in ways that they didn't have before. So that noticing and naming, like Linda mentioned, in the context of peers, is saying to this up-and-coming leader, hey, these attempts at flight, it's actually working. You know, you are successful, and they're continuing to give her chances to fly even more.

SPEAKER_02: 24:34

So when you lean into that growth narrative and begin to really celebrate the components of where you've seen growth, where you've seen change, where you've seen people truly transform for the better, that inspires like we can take the next hill, or let's let's let's push ourselves even more to watch our daughter run a half marathon. Yeah, that's cool. And then for her to say, I think I can do a whole marathon. Um and sometimes we just need bits of practice that that feel like a flight that might be the precursor to the next flight. Yeah, that's good.

SPEAKER_01: 25:13

I like what you said there, and I just have baseball on the mind because my cubs are in the playoffs. You like the Cubs? I do. Did you know that? Um They're in the playoffs?

SPEAKER_03: 25:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 25:22

Zip it. The uh so watching them do the whole champagne thing when they clinched a wildcard spot, when they uh won the first round of their that wildcard round. You know, some people are kind of like, you know, the World Series winning that is the only thing that matters. So why are they going crazy with all the champagne? And I heard some commentators like, you know, a couple of Cubs players are like, you know, tenure veterans, like, this is the first time they've ever done this. Some of these guys, this is the only time they will be in a, you know, win a postseason, whatever. And to what you were just saying, Linda, like you have to celebrate every milestone to not only recognize what you've done, but then encourage you to be like, but there's more. Like, how do we get to yet the next one? And I think maybe too often in the corporate business world, we don't. I mean, we're not gonna tarp up the office and spray campaign every time we hit one little goal, but what is what does that look like? The last thing I want to talk about here is Eagles. Yes. Uh the Eagle, as we know, helps OC kind of make sense of her new perspective. She gets up there and she's like, What in the world is happening? And the Eagle's like, Oh, what's up? I haven't seen you around here before. How do leaders embody that uh that role for their teams? Because often that leader maybe hasn't been up there either. And so they're kind of experiencing that at the same time.

SPEAKER_02: 26:48

But the leader has maybe been somewhere. So I would say in the heart of every leader is a moment of an eagle. Maybe not all the time, but I think when we embody the eagle, we have a way of seeing people, naming and noticing that, hey, now we're flying. Hey, I haven't seen you. And the the power of a leader that begins to serve others and pull out the dreams and the inspiration of other people. I think that is that's the essential uh belief that we we say when we say leaders go first. Leaders go first. That means you've probably f flown somewhere before and maybe wasn't at this high stakes, but you have some lessons to learn, and you can translate that to your your environment or your context to help someone else who just needs the continued encouragement to fly.

SPEAKER_00: 27:51

The role of the eagle is to recognize when others are in flight, to reassure them that they are meant to be there, and to remind them of the work in progress or the work and process that brought them there, and to not forget to share that experience with others. I love to ask leaders who they are the eagle for. Name that person. Think of the individual uh that is in this place where they're attempting to fly. And I love to challenge leaders to then go and encourage that that person to remind them of what's actually happening. Um, because when you ask people that question, like, who are you the eagle for? They kind of look to the side, they kind of wonder, and then they then their eyes light up, like they know it. And that's what I want to see, because I think that people miss the moments of flight too often, and the eagle is here to remind us to take notice and to recognize. Yeah. That's good.

unknown: 29:00

I know. I know.

SPEAKER_01: 29:03

I have a Cubs. Go, Cubs, go. I have a conclusion that I want to read. Go for it. And then a quick takeaway. I think I'll read this conclusion, get your thoughts, and then I have like a very practical takeaway. For teams and organizations, the fly stage is where vision meets reality. It's where the stakes are higher, the risks are greater, but the rewards are richer. To truly fly, teams must believe in their collective strength, trust the process of transformation, and support one another through both the falls and the breakthroughs. As leaders, one of our greatest callings is to be like the Eagle, helping our teams make sense of new perspectives, encouraging them to trust their growth, and reminding them that even in transformation, they are still the same at their core. Thoughts, comments, really good.

SPEAKER_02: 29:55

My initial thought trust the process and grow your palate for transformation. It's not to be feared, it's not to be even though it's scary. It's not to be feared, even though it's scary. And the transformation will only make the world a better place if we find ways to transform the world into more kind places, more growing places, more evolved places that give dignity and courage to each person.

SPEAKER_01: 30:39

Alright, so here's a reflection for leaders and for teams. What does flying look like for us right now? And you can also ask the same question what does flying look like for me right now on this team? And how can we create the trust and creation? Courage needed to fly together.

SPEAKER_02: 30:56

I would love to know the answers.

SPEAKER_01: 30:58

I would love to know the answers. Send us your answers to that. You can uh drop us a line, connect at Leadership Vision Consulting.com, or leave a comment in the accompanying blog post or social media. Thank you for listening to the Leadership Vision Podcast, our show helping you build positive team culture. If you found value from this episode or any of our other resources, we would love it if you could subscribe to our podcast wherever you get your podcast, follow us in all the socials, join our free email newsletter, or just send this to someone who you think could benefit, someone who's leading a team and could benefit from any of this information about how to help their team fly. You can click the link in the show notes to get more information about this episode and other resources, or visit us on the web at Leadership Vision Consulting.com. My name is Nathan Freeberg. I'm Linda Schubring. And I'm Brian Schubring. And on behalf of our entire team, thanks for listening.