The Soul and Science of Service

What happens when service begins in the heart and is sustained by the brain?

In this episode, Nathan Freeburg sits down with Dr. Linda and Brian Schubring to explore why service is more than an obligation—it’s a formative leadership practice. Together, they unpack:

• Why the future of work is emotional
• What neuroscience teaches us about empathy and compassion
• How service expands (rather than depletes) our capacity
• The connection between service, identity, and personal “maps”
• Why leaders must model being the “lead servant”

Through personal stories and practical insight, this conversation shows how service reshapes both individuals and teams—and why it may be one of the most important practices for emotionally healthy leadership.

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Transcript

The Future Of Work Is Emotional

SPEAKER_02 0:00

The science and soul of service is important because the future of work is emotional. And when we serve, we create an emotional awareness to the needs of others, which creates an emotional awareness of the capacity we have to serve. The more we serve, the more emotionally connected we are to our own emotional selves, and the more compassion we have to serve other people. As work gets more and more complex, as technologies provide more threats, as the uncertainty of our environment continues to rise, people will need to be comforted and cared for and be assured that they have a place of belonging no matter what's happening around them. And that is an emotional work. And if we can help people learn how to serve, we are going to be helping individuals create emotional and compassionate connections to their peers, which is going to expand their own capacity and expand the ultimate capacity of a team to work together towards the things we need to do. The future of work is emotional, and service gives us the opportunity to expand our emotional capacity to serve and love one another.

Framing Service As Human Practice

SPEAKER_03 1:14

You are listening to the Leadership Vision Podcast, our show helping you build positive team culture. Our consulting firm has been doing this work for the past 25 years so that leaders are mentally engaged and emotionally healthy. To learn more about our work, you can click the link in the show notes or visit us on the web at Leadership Vision Consulting.com. Hello, everyone. My name is Nathan Freeberg, and today we're exploring service, not as an obligation or self-sacrifice, but as a deeply human practice that shapes both the heart and the brain. This conversation with Dr. Linda and Brian Schubring looks at what happens when service begins in the soul, that quiet stirring of compassion, and how the brain sustains it through empathy, connection, and meaningful action. In other words, what the heart initiates, the brain sustains. We're going to be talking about how service changes us over time, how every act of care leaves a fold, shaping identity, resilience, and purpose. We'll explore the difference between serving and being served, why both are formative, and how service expands us rather than depletes us. We're also going to reflect on the idea that each of us serves from a map, shaped by our experiences, our communities, our challenges, and the people who have influenced us along the way. Understanding that map helps us lead with greater clarity, compassion, and courage. Now, ultimately, this is a conversation about remembering why service matters, especially for leaders and how aligning the soul and science of service allows care, connection, and meaning to unfold naturally in our lives and our work. This is a Leadership Vision Podcast. Enjoy. Brian and Linda, welcome back to the Leadership Vision Podcast.

SPEAKER_02 3:01

Thanks, maybe. It is good to do this.

SPEAKER_03 3:03

And I am really excited to talk about this topic today because my son has to do a service project for school. Absolutely. They have to do 12 hours and they could pick whatever they wanted. And we have some connection to the Ronald McDonald House. And so just last week we went and did our first that was a four hours called their Meals from the Heart program, where we basically cooked cooked a meal from scratch. It was just he and I and like the person in charge for 45 people. We had about 20 people who came down and ate, and then the rest of the meals were used for leftovers. And I mean, I was blown away by it, but watching him, the experience, he's like, this was incredible. It was so much fun. Like he played with this little kid, and like just watching these families come down to eat who look like they've been hit by a bus just as they're caring for their children in the hospital. It was incredibly powerful. So to start off our conversation, talk a little bit about why service matters. Like, why is it important for us as leaders to do something that is service-oriented, that is service forward?

A Father–Son Service Story

Why Service Builds Real Connection

SPEAKER_02 4:09

One of the reasons why I think service is so important, not only to remind ourselves of, but to practice, is because serving is an intentional creation of connection between two human beings. And sometimes it's an intentional connection that spans socioeconomic strata. And that is part of why I want to talk about it because I think the most transformational opportunity that service provides us is when we serve our peers. And part of today's conversation is to kind of weave together these potential opportunities to serve those who need service the most and to take that type of lived and shared experience and to carry it into the teams with the people that we work with on a day-to-day level.

SPEAKER_00 5:04

I remember in the 1990s, I was reading Robert Greenleaf's book on servant leadership. It was compelling and it was exciting, and it's still true today. And I remember a mentor of mine turning that idea on its head a bit because he said, It sounds like you've read Greenleaf's work on servant leadership. I was like, Yeah, I believe it and I live it. And he said, I don't know if I like the term. And I was a little bit offended because I've seen this leader lead in a way that is so selfless and so focused on other people. And he said, I wish it wasn't just called servant leadership. I wish we would invite people to be the lead servant. And that messed with not just the language but the understanding. And I continue to think of this leader every time I hear the word service or servant leadership, because what does it look like to be the one not serving from a place because I'm going to help you, but taking a humble stance, a very aware stance, and being the person that goes first, that models what it means to serve others, to serve in all directions, and to be made better for it.

From Servant Leader To Lead Servant

SPEAKER_03 6:26

Linda, I love that. I think that book came out in the 70s. Uh but it's 50 years old and it's still more relevant than it ever was before. I'm curious, Brian, with all of your brain books that you read. It's called neuroscience, Freeberg. Fine. Neuroscience books that you read. What have you come across neuroscientifically that connects what's happening in your brain when we do these acts of service, service projects, what you want to call them, and kind of connects to this conversation or this part of the conversation about why this all matters?

How The Brain Follows The Heart

SPEAKER_02 6:58

Well, first of all, one of the more important aspects of serving others is serving is usually a counterintuitive approach to leading. Because leading is often an intellectual pursuit or a game of the mind trying to figure out how we're going to move forward, what problems we're going to solve, what types of great decisions do we have to make. And that's an intellectual activity that creates an emotional response. Serving is the opposite. Serving is an activity of the heart that opens up our emotional capacities to give. And oftentimes that emotional connection to someone in need happens first. Well, neurologically, that happens first, that emotional opening awareness and connection. And the brain has to catch up to figure out how am I going to meet that need. So that heartfelt awareness turns into a cognitive experience later. And just that inversion of how we go about our day-to-day interaction with human beings makes the act of serving more memorable, more meaningful, and more transformative to both the one that is being served and to the one that is serving.

SPEAKER_03 8:08

I like that.

SPEAKER_02 8:09

I know it's really good, right?

SPEAKER_03 8:10

That's that's really good. I like that because what I hear you saying is that it's like the heart is sensing and picking up on something, and then the brain has to sort of follow it. Why does that so often feel absolutely exhausting and draining? And a lot of times leaders sort of connect that with like obligation or burnout depletion. It often has more of a negative, I think, connection than what you've just described. Correct. Because it's difficult. Oh, that's what it is.

Practice, Pattern, Prefer

SPEAKER_02 8:40

Okay, here's why. Most people do not practice an emotional expression of empathy or compassion. We don't have the practice in doing it. And that which we don't practice, the brain doesn't pattern. And the opposite is also true. What we practice, we pattern, and what we pattern, we prefer. So imagine, spoiler alert, if teams have opportunities to serve those in need, they're actually participating in a practice that is going to expand their emotional ability to have compassion and empathy, not only for the disadvantaged and needy, but also a greater empathy and compassion for those that they work with. And that is why serving is so important because it patterns us to begin to feel and see the needs for service that are immediately around us without us to have to go to a different part of the city or different country to actually serve.

SPEAKER_00 9:38

Which is so important to teach teach them young. Yeah. So Nathan, introducing that to your children is so key, especially understanding helping children. Like one of the bounces is you start to understand that they're just human too, or that we're like, we're not coming down from on high to help and be the savior. We are touching our own humanity, and then all of a sudden we're just oh, we're just playing with kids, and that was fun to make the dinner. And I make dinner at home, and now I just get to make it for 45 people, and it sets those patterns and that feel good nature of like that was actually fun and it was well set up and maybe it was really well organized. And once again, usually those being served receive a benefit, but those doing the service also receive maybe a longer lasting benefit because it's creating the habits in the brain to continue to pay it forward.

SPEAKER_02 10:38

So the empathy and compassion is certainly one of the products of service. Secondarily, we also know that through the influence of serving other people, we're understanding how service can not only be a self-expression of who we are, like I actually care and want to help someone. I also say that service is a way that we self-expand, where we learn how much we can actually give through some of the more simple things in our life. Oftentimes we feel that in order for us to be a resource for someone else, we have to have like a certain level of expertise or experience or some type of influence. But when you begin to realize how simple service can be, it expands our ability to actually serve. I'm not sure about you, Nathan, or anybody in our audience like the types of opportunities that we we've had to serve. Like you mentioned, Nathan, at the beginning, preparing a meal. Most of us know how to prepare a meal in some way. There are perhaps people that have volunteered in nurseries or have packaged food or have maybe served in in orphanages. Like I myself happen to serve in an earthquake zone and it's helping people just to feed them, find clothing for them. It's opportunities where we serve, where we realize it's not just an expression that I want to help, but there is a simple nature to serving some needs that helps us expand our capacity to serve when the needs are more complex.

Simple Acts That Self‑Expand

SPEAKER_00 12:08

And all humans have the capacity to serve, to give of themselves, and it's finding the right opportunity. I think of my sweet mother who is an avid listener. Hi mom.

SPEAKER_02 12:20

Hey G Mom.

Handwritten Care And Longevity

SPEAKER_00 12:21

I think about my mom and the ways that she serves right now in writing birthday card notes to the youth in her community, and she goes by the date, and all these children get the these handwritten notes. And the other day I said, Mom, not only, I'm sure, like sometimes my mother's words just have a way of like piercing into my heart. She just can access emotion with her words and with the written word that is just that has marked me positively for life. I said, Mom, not only are you blessing these kids who maybe don't have beautiful things said to them or specific things said to them, but guess what? More than diet, more than exercise, more than what you do or don't do, more than moving, more than socializing, handwriting is helping you with your longevity and to continue to sharpen your cognitive capacity. She's like, Well, that's a bonus, right? So there's this opportunity where the ripples of the benefit isn't just like, oh, I have to give up two hours of my time, or I don't know if I can make time or energy for this, and that's gonna be a drag. And you start to realize that when you build your habits of serving, the return on your investment and return on your relationships just come back probably a thousandfold.

Serving With Open Hands

SPEAKER_02 13:57

Yeah. That's an amazing example because for G Mom to do that, there are a few things that have to happen first. She needs to place something down or take something out of her hand to put something new into her hand to serve. I think that's a lesson for all of us because because for us to serve, we have to maybe put down our phone or release our hands from a steering wheel or put down a remote control, whatever we're we're holding on to emotionally or relationally, we have to open our hands to maybe take up a different tool or to have a certain type of element in our hands to do something or to simply be open. Because one of the of the phrases that we often say is when we serve with open hands, we create a space for something to land. And when we open ourselves up, we create spaces for us to be the recipient of that human-to-human connection, even if we're the one serving. And sometimes I think that is the the reciprocity that that happens is both people are being served. Both people are being transformed, and that's truly the influence of service because if we are the one serving or the one being served, those imprints leave lasting marks.

Folds, Identity, And Change

SPEAKER_03 15:15

Yeah. To move us into the final section here, I'm going to try to wrap a bunch of things together. So bear with me for a second. So what I hear you saying is that this idea of service, use your great example of your mom or many others, it expands us. Like it's not something that depletes and sucks our energy, but it's this kind of big idea that, yeah, might be physically tired, but it's it's helping you in a number of ways. Also, this idea of service doesn't mean, you know, digging wells in Africa. It means serving your teammates, writing birthday cards to kids in your community, like whatever, like there's a lot of different definitions of this, but it's really just that idea of sort of giving back. And so what what I'm kind of want to transition us now when you talk about folds increases and reaching for unfolded lessons in transformation from an origami crane, this idea that service creates folds that change your identity. And you know, we don't have time to go through the whole fold metaphor parable from the book, but maybe just say a little bit about like what does it mean when we say that like acts of service creates a fold.

Maps That Guide How We Serve

SPEAKER_02 16:31

What I believe is that serving is often an afterthought to our human development. Parents need to serve their children in order for the children to survive. And for any of us who have been parents, we know that trying to keep a human being alive is refolding some of the patterns that we've learned for self-preservation. That being said, the same applies to us when we are serving each other. Oftentimes, the patterns that we are creating are newfolds that are sometimes counterintuitive or the opposite type of fold that we have learned to sustain us. Because as much as we need to belong, sometimes that belonging is an amplification of opinion. Sometimes that belonging is creating higher walls to form a greater sense of tribalism. And when that happens, those creases are hard to unfold. Well, guess what will be an anecdote to opinion and tribalism unfolding through service? Because when we serve, it is a direct challenge to our tribal nature to belong, because oftentimes we're serving people that we don't necessarily belong to where or whom they're among. We also have to put aside some of our opinions about what we think about people in order for us to serve others. Here's a really funny story. So I was talking about this unfolding process that happens through service with some people that are experts in service. We were talking about serving the needs of people who needed meals. So I told a story about serving the need of a person who was outside of a grocery store, and I asked him, What can I get you from the hot bar? And he had a very specific order. Yeah. That was contrary to my opinion of you should be grateful that I'm giving you anything. But he wanted turkey and gravy, mashed potatoes, and all this other stuff. That was a conflict of opinions on what I was thinking. And the woman I was talking to, she shared a story of asking if she could feed someone, much the same setting. And the person that she was asking to feed said, and I'm I have gluten sensitivity. So it's a clash of opinion. My point being, when we serve, we will often be surprised by the opinions that rise up that we have to fold over or fold away so that we can create opportunities to serve other people.

SPEAKER_00 19:01

The practice of service makes a fold, but that fold is often not meant to stay, but rather to prepare the next fold. So the things that we're learning about origami is that sometimes you fold things just to create the right crease so that another paper could be folded in. And so, Brian, I'm listening to you and I'm hearing your words of continually unfolding, unfolding, and the unfolding nature of service. And Nathan's question was more about like, well, it puts a fold in your map, and both are true. Both are true because the fold creates the space for not just looking backwards, because that fold is not meant to be a point in time. That fold is to prepare the next action and the next both unfolding and refolding of the crane, which we can learn so many lessons from.

SPEAKER_03 20:00

Linda, you brought up the map, and I wasn't sure if we were gonna if we were gonna go here, but what I'm curious about or just struck me is how much of the service type things that we're drawn to is connected to this idea of like our map, where we have been, you know, our neighborhoods are etc. Can maybe talk about that. I don't know if we need to explain the map metaphor, but maybe talk about that idea of how we're created of these maps and how perhaps where we serve is somehow connected to that.

SPEAKER_00 20:33

The maps point to our identity, they point to the places where we have grown and evolved. There are many maps, there are many places that have shaped. So we're not just a map, I think we are a combination of many maps. I think of the places that I've traveled to, worked in, served in across the world, and I think of those places, and I I sometimes went to those places because I was on the wings of someone else's dream. I sometimes went to those places because it was a family decision, or I just I ended up, you know, just getting a ticket and riding along. There were some times where I went to those places for a reason, or I heard a compelling speaker tell me about what was happening in El Salvador, and if we were able to go into the bamboo rainforest and chop down some of the bamboo, we could build latrines and a wall that would help clean up the water so that children wouldn't die. That the that it was all it and it was so connected that just hearing that story compelled me to explore my own identity and why the call was con why or why the call to action was intrusive. Intriguing to me in that moment, why the synergies happen that I met this person who met that person who we all went together to do this work in a rainforest. For me, uh when when I think about the maps and the places of growth, it often those places of service happen in some place.

SPEAKER_03 22:23

So Brian Linda, I want to kind of bring all of this together. And you know, I started talking about my son, and what's been frustrating for the parents is that there hasn't been a lot of details about this. And so we're like asking the teacher, like, what do we have to do? And finally he sent out the email. He's like, guys, this is just to get your kids in these environments, to stretch them, to grow them, to give them like practical leadership opportunities, to give back, yada yada yada. So kind of in the similar vein, Brian, I'm curious if you can sort of tie this all together and why does this even matter? Like, why do we need to send out our leaders? Do we need to send out our people? Like, why does any of this matter as we're talking about leadership development and growth and all of the things that we discuss on this podcast?

Why This Matters For Leaders

SPEAKER_02 23:08

Why does this matter? Why the science and soul of service is important because the future of work is emotional. And when we serve, we create an emotional awareness to the needs of others, which creates an emotional awareness of the capacity we have to serve. The more we serve, the more emotionally connected we are to our own emotional selves, and the more compassion we have to serve other people. As work gets more and more complex, as technologies provide more threats, as the uncertainty of our environment continues to rise, people will need to be comforted and cared for and be assured that they have a place of belonging no matter what's happening around them. And that is an emotional work. And if we can help people learn how to serve, we are going to be helping individuals create emotional and compassionate connections to their peers, which is going to expand their own capacity and expand the ultimate capacity of a team to work together towards the things we need to do. The future of work is emotional, and service gives us the opportunity to expand our emotional capacity to serve and love one another.

SPEAKER_03 24:26

Service doesn't just change the world around us, it reshapes the wisdom of the heart and the wiring of the brain. Brian and Linda, thank you for this conversation. If I listened to this a week ago, I would say this has really excited me to go and do some service. But since Parker and I did this, I'm already excited. And now it's cool to have a little bit more, I don't want to say research, but awareness of why this is good, not just to fulfill some school credit, but in all the ways that it's it's making us better people. So thank you.

SPEAKER_00 24:58

Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 24:58

And thank you, listeners, for listening to the Leadership Vision Podcast, our show helping you build positive team culture. If you found value from this episode or any of our other material, we appreciate it if you would review us on iTunes or Spotify. Go follow us on all the social channels and on YouTube. You can subscribe to our free email newsletter at Leadership Vision Consulting.com slash subscribe, or there's also a link in the show notes to do that. We'd also appreciate it if just share this with someone who you think could benefit from this message of service and how it connects to both the heart and the brain. My name is Ethan Freeberg. I'm Lydia Schubring.

SPEAKER_02 25:34

And I'm Brian Schubring.

SPEAKER_03 25:35

And on behalf of our entire team, thanks for listening.

SPEAKER_00 25:39

And serving.