How Play Gets Us Out Of Our Heads And Into The Moment

Play isn’t childish, and it isn’t a distraction from leadership. It’s one of the quickest ways to get out of your head, reconnect with the people around you, and create the kind of energy where learning actually sticks. We talk about why play helps us feel more present, more surprised, and more willing to laugh at ourselves, and how those moments can reveal purpose faster than another round of navel-gazing ever will. 

We also get honest about the modern tradeoff between real fun and “soothing.” Screens can feel safe and calming, but they rarely create the shared experiences that build belonging. From family vacations to everyday moments with coworkers, we unpack what makes play feel genuine, why forced fun backfires, and how leaders can set a tone that is light without being dismissive. If you care about team culture, psychological safety, and employee engagement, you’ll hear practical ways to bring play into meetings without turning it into a cringe exercise. 

A big thread running through the conversation is the idea that play is practice in disguise. Whether you’re coaching kids with running games or leading an organization through uncertainty, play lowers the stakes so people will try, experiment, and grow. We share stories about taking small risks, remembering what we loved as kids, and reclaiming wonder as adults when it feels like we have more to lose. 

If this sparks an idea, subscribe to the Leadership Vision podcast, share the episode with a colleague or friend, and leave a review so more leaders can find it.

Transcript

Why Play Matters

Dr. Linda Schubring 0:00

Play is what gets us out of our head! Play uncovers our purpose faster than navel-gazing and faster than just laying down a, a quick three-step process. When I think about this summer and I think about the fun that Brian and I just had on our vacation with family, I think about the fun that we had and the ways that we were laughing and the ways that we enjoyed unhurried time together. So let's talk about play

Nathan Freeburg 0:38

Hello, everyone. Welcome back to the Leadership Vision podcast. My name is Nathan Freeburg, and Dr. Linda Schubring and I are gonna be talking about play, about finding those moments in your everyday life with your team, with your family, to incorporate playful moments, to use play as practice, to get better at a thing. Now, this isn't just about kind of those big, maybe corporate team-building type ideas of play, but in every little moment and every little aspect. I think this is something that we r- do really well at Leadership Vision, both on our own team and with the teams that we work with. So enjoy this episode. We hope your summer is going well and you are finding ways to play every day.

Screen Time Versus Real Fun

Nathan Freeburg 1:19

Enjoy Linda, I can't help but think of my children, of course, children and play. And we've had a summer that has been full of play and full of screen time.

Dr. Linda Schubring 1:36

Ooh.

Nathan Freeburg 1:37

Like we've done, uh, uh, you know, one day where we'll go out and we'll run around, we'll get home after dinner exhausted 'cause we've been at, at a beach, at a pool, riding bikes, whatever, and it's the happiest, it's great. Then the days when we're just sitting around doing nothing, everyone's a little cranky. what do you think it is about play at any age that is, I don't know, better? Helps us get out of our heads, like you said? Like what, what is it about it?

Dr. Linda Schubring 2:10

Uh, play is fun. I, I think there's elements of play that have, marked us as a company and marked as an that people aren't just gonna be talked at or, like, we're gonna enjoy, um, enjoy being together. And I would think there's times that I think screens kill fun. I think there are times, 'cause maybe screens are more soothing, um, and information and, uh, safety blankets more than they are, "Oh, I'm having fun on my phone," enjoying, like, what's, what's coming next. And, Nathan, as, we've been chatting, I, I've been thinking about just even the elements of belonging. So how does play get us out of our head? Play helps us enjoy the present moment. It invites us to be surprised. It invites us to be inspired. It invites us to laugh at ourselves, laugh at others respectfully so, and it's the elements of fun that, that we can begin to understand more of why we're on this earth or why, why we're alive at this moment

Nathan Freeburg 3:20

we

Play That Helps You Do Hard Things

Nathan Freeburg 3:21

had some friends visiting the past week, and we just had an absolute blast with them, and the kids were like, "It went by so quickly." And I was like, "Yeah," 'cause we were just playing the whole time. And where I think that there's maybe a connection here for everyone is sometimes play helps you do hard things and almost trick you into doing hard things. I'm gonna, I'm gonna be, coaching the third through eighth grade cross country team this year at school, and my whole philosophy is built on this book called "Running Games." I don't know if you can see that here in the thing. But it's basically playground-type games modified to just get kids playing and having, having fun and kind of forgetting that, oh, we're training to do this, do this race. And I couldn't help but think of the chapter in "Unfolded" about play.

Dr. Linda Schubring 4:09

Yes

Nathan Freeburg 4:10

And, Whether you're a fourth grader or a 40-year-old working in an organization, there's this element of play that I think we need to get more of. Are you finding that as you're out working with clients and working with people? Are you finding a real lack of that out there in the world?

Dr. Linda Schubring 4:27

Well,

Bringing Play Into Team Culture

Dr. Linda Schubring 4:28

we're finding that things are really serious right now, or things feel serious, or there are moments where as, as chaos is brewing and people don't know what to do next, it can be easy or tempting to say, "Okay, we're not gonna have fun anymore. We're gonna, you know, buckle down and, uh, get through this." And what we're finding is in our work as we're introducing elements of play, which is s- and we've ta- maybe we've talked about this before, but a brain break or something that you are, you... And we take playground games as well, and then we introduce them in, in some of the, the work that we've done as teams are seeking to trust each other better, or they're seeking to know each other in a different way. And if we can give them a shared experience where they're laughing and enjoying themselves, time goes by quicker, like you were mentioning, and people are more familiar with who they are and the things that make them who they are and why they, why they even like working together.

Nathan Freeburg 5:31

Yeah. You know, I think of the history of Leadership Vision. We have done, uh, escape rooms, we've done karaoke, we've done-- gone bowling, we've gone to the Mall of America, uh, amusement park. I mean, there's all kinds of things that

Dr. Linda Schubring 5:48

York

Nathan Freeburg 5:49

New York City, I mean, all kinds of stuff, right? and that is certainly an element of play, like going out and doing something crazy. But there's also, I think, a playfulness to our team of making jokes, of trying to keep things lighthearted that I think sometimes, you know, maybe the corporate world would call it or, or, you know, they're like, "Our work is too serious to go to a ropes course," or whatever. "We don't have time for that." But I think there's a way that maybe a lightheartedness or a, you know, how do, how do you have a little bit more fun? Does that make sense? I don't know exactly if I'm asking a question or just making a point here, but I wonder how we can incorporate more fun into a staff meeting that doesn't necessarily have to be, "Let's go do a cooking class together and get flour all over our faces," you

Dr. Linda Schubring 6:39

Right, right. Which is funny and a shared that is important. But I, I mean, it's, it's sometimes it goes back to tone. So we've even heard people say, "We are gonna have fun now." No one has fun when you're told

Nathan Freeburg 6:51

You

Dr. Linda Schubring 6:51

be like Like, yeah, you... And you laugh here, um, because no one has fun when it feels contrived, and no one has fun when it feels forced. Uh, I think it's fun when there is a different kind of energy that's transmitted, and that's, that is what we bring. I think that's what Br- Brian and I bring in particular in the space between us, where we are, we are enjoying ourselves, and we're saying like, Don't take yourself so seriously, but take each other seriously, and really try to listen to what people are saying or not saying, or how they're interacting when they're presented with something that is," like you were saying before, "hard or unknown." Or could be tempting to be like, "Okay, let's just solve this in a serious way." um, when we're having fun and we're laughing, there's, um... It locks into our brains in some different ways.

Nathan Freeburg 7:45

Yeah.

When You Think You Are Not Fun

Nathan Freeburg 7:46

I'm thinking about the, the leader out there who's like, "Well, I'm, I'm not fun. I'm not funny. Like, that's not me, therefore this isn't gonna work." And I wanna connect that with what we were talking about earlier before we started recording about this idea of practice. I, I just re-released an episode where Brian and I are talking about this book that we read, and there's this huge idea about practice. So many things are a practice. You're trying. You're getting a little bit better and a little bit better. So what might you say to that leader who's like, "This is a good idea, but that's just not my personality"? Just practice a little?

Dr. Linda Schubring 8:21

Well, then you don't, you don't get serious about practice. You, you have to, you have to let go just a little bit, and, and sometimes asking people, asking people what games they played as a child is really interesting. and what we find there, and that's why even we wrote the, the chapter on Unfolded about, about play, is that pr- that play is actually practice in disguise. And I think about the, the leaders who get excited when they remember the first time they were on the ice, and they were playing hockey or figure skating, and they have that moment, and they were laughing with their friends, and they felt a part of something larger than who they, are. Sometimes we wanna harken people back to that, time where they could play without, without consequence, really. Like, they could, they could practice and they could wonder, and they could, um, just run as fast as they can, not worrying about the, the pounding on their joints because they're four... in fourth grade, right? Yeah.

Nathan Freeburg 9:31

Yeah. That's good. Sometimes I think as adults we're afraid to practice or we're afraid to,, do things that we're not good at right away. And, you know, I was trying, I was trying to Google a list but of like all the famous people, um, who were in their 60s who like basically had a career shift. Like I think Winston Churchill became a painter like after all the World War II stuff was over. how do you, Linda,

Dr. Linda Schubring 10:01

Mm-hmm.

Nathan Freeburg 10:01

as a grown woman

Speaker 10:04

Careful.

Nathan Freeburg 10:06

Yeah, I wasn't gonna say your age, don't worry. As a grown adult woman, how do you in your own life maintain that sense of practice and wonder and I'm gonna try something I'm not good at? I won't ask you how your pushup challenge is going 'cause mine's not going well. Um, but what, what do you just do in your own life to kind of continue to practice stuff?

Tubing Story And Trying New Things

Dr. Linda Schubring 10:29

Mm-hmm. Well, first of all, I married Brian

Nathan Freeburg 10:31

Okay. There you go

Dr. Linda Schubring 10:33

there, there's a lot going on that way. I think it is a mindset. I think in, in... Sometimes there's a moment of like, okay, maybe you're stressed in this moment. Where, where is the joy? Or I, I learned some of my quick wit from both my father and my grandmother, which is interesting. And, and as I, I think about how I even approach life, there's just a lightness that I seek to bring. And so I don't necessarily have a limiting belief that practice needs to be hard and painful However, I think some people are afraid that, That practicing something new will lead them to, uh, like they won't do it unless they'll be perfect at it.

Nathan Freeburg 11:22

Yes

Dr. Linda Schubring 11:23

And

Nathan Freeburg 11:25

Practice does not make perfect

Dr. Linda Schubring 11:27

No. It makes more practice. And, So there's a, there's a mindset. There is a, for me, I seek to do fun things. There are things that I, I clearly do not want to do. We were just on family vacation, and I love our family, and I love the three-generation family that, that descends upon this resort. And, uh, when, when we were together, our daughter signed us up for tubing, and

Nathan Freeburg 12:00

Ooh

Dr. Linda Schubring 12:01

I was like, "You guys will have so much fun." And something happened, and she wasn't able to, to participate. And so my nephew, who's 15, uh, his first ride was with his mom, and the second ride was with me. Now, with his mom They, they went at a five out of 10. So when you're being pulled by a jet ski and you don't know how people are judging some of And I remember, they looked like they were having fun, and I'm like, "I'm willing to do this. This is what love looks like. This is how would you what you do, like you step in and you have some fun." And I got onto the tube with my nephew, and he looked at me, and he looked at them, and he's like, "Seven. We want seven," which is like two more, two more.

Nathan Freeburg 12:51

Yeah

Dr. Linda Schubring 12:52

And they, the jet ski hit the, hit the gas, and was like a deluge of water in my eyes. I almost lost all my eyelashes. And, um, I... And, and my nephew is like, "This is faster than with my mom."

Nathan Freeburg 13:10

Whoa!

Dr. Linda Schubring 13:11

were, we were holding on for dear life, and we're screaming, and we're enjoying ourselves. And for me, I'm trying to tuck this memory away right away, and then I'm being reminded to get back, back in the present so that I can actually stay on this tube. And we're catching air, and we're laughing, and I'm apologizing in advance if I f- fall on top him or we get blown off or whatever's gonna happen, but you know, we're hanging on. I'm like, "We are athletes. We are gonna hang on." and I kept laughing. I kept laughing throughout the rest of the night, and even as I'm recalling it right now. it was one of those top five memories of our time together, where the, the some of the things that I remember of our families is those moments where this isn't something I do on a daily basis, and something that I'm not gonna willy- willingly even sign up for a seven, where you need goggles, um, in order to enjoy, um, enjoy the water in a different way. And so for me, it's like just stepping out and, and trying from time to time, not, not worrying about what will make me look foolish, and remembering that I, in that moment, I just wanted my nephew to have, have a great memory and a lot of fun

Nathan Freeburg 14:30

Yeah. It's-- I don't know where to go with this. I have so many follow-ups. A lot of them have to do with my kids, and one, one of the things that I love about my children, one of the many things, is that they are just so willing to try stuff. They're so willing to do things that they don't know how to do that... Not always, but, um, and what I'm thinking about specifically is we were up at this, um, alpine slide thing at Mount Hood that had all kind of like everything from batting cages to like a summer sledding hill. But they also had these like high adventure things where you could do like a bungee jump, a zip line, and some other things. And I was like, "Well, I'm not doing the bungee jump," because not that I was worried I was gonna like die, but I was just, I was so concerned about as that cord snaps me back up, it's I'm gonna hurt my back. Like something's gonna happen. And maybe that's just like, I don't know, getting older.

Dr. Linda Schubring 15:33

No, because happened before to you, not

Nathan Freeburg 15:35

yeah. Well, it totally has. And so I'm like, "Ugh, am I missing out?" And so I just did the zip line, and of course when it like hit the end, it's like, like, "Oh, that's harder than I thought. I'm fine." Um, but one of my daughters, she was actually, you had to be a certain weight. She was the only one just barely like heavy enough, and she was way up there. And just watching her go from, "I'm so excited to do this," to be terrified, to then jumping off and just like, she was like, "I wanna do it again." I was like, "Well, we can't." It's a one-time thing. Um, but that just idea of like we're doing something new. We're, we're having a new experience. I mean, I don't know if bungee jumping translates into other areas of life, but like then we were doing another experience later that she was afraid of, and I was like, "Remember when you did the bungee jumping?" "Yeah." "Well, this thing is less scary than that." And she's like, "Oh yeah, that's true. Okay," and then did it. And so sometimes I think when we play in one area, maybe it can help you in another area to remind yourself that perhaps you're stronger than you thought you were, that you can take little risks or whatever. I don't know. Does any of that resonate or hit with anything that you've seen out there with leaders?

Reclaiming Wonder And Daily Play

Dr. Linda Schubring 16:47

Well, I think it goes back to we have to remember the times where play worked in our

Nathan Freeburg 16:52

Yeah.

Dr. Linda Schubring 16:53

where it helped us create some inside jokes with where it allowed us to, to bond and feel, uh, feel tighter. It, it, um, allowed us like a memory that we will still laugh about when we, when we think about it and think about those, those moments. And if we can remember some of those, like you were, as you reminded your daughter, like, "Well, this isn't that scary," there is, there is that, "Oh yeah, like I can do hard things," or, "Yeah, that was... It didn't seem scary. Now it feels like even, it's even more scary." I think the older we get, we have, it feels like we have more to lose.

Nathan Freeburg 17:32

Yes.

Dr. Linda Schubring 17:32

And so the leaders that we work with, when I, when I'm encouraging them, like I don't say like, "Well, schedule some play in your calendar and then get back to me," but when I can tap into the wonder of, of some of their first experiences on the slopes or their first experiences swimming in the water or their first time on a paddleboard, um, or playing games with their kids or whatever it is, there's a sense that, "Oh, I wanna get back to that." Um, and, and sometimes we chase those emotions with things that soothe us, like phones and whatever else, and that really doesn't, it doesn't scratch that itch. And I, I wanna encourage leaders to find ways to reclaim some of the play in their life and to not just go out and if you, you know, do a daily run or a daily jog, don't just, you know, do that more intensely. Like have a little fun this time. Stop when you see a bird. a couple pictures if you bring your phone, and take some of the world in and allow play to shape you in a way.

Takeaways And Listener Requests

Nathan Freeburg 18:45

Well, Linda, thank you so much. This has been a fun, playful conversation as we are mid-summer here. And that idea of play as practice or really anything as practice and just kind of trying new things and, you know, being, being okay with not being great at them I think is a huge, a huge takeaway. So thank you.

Dr. Linda Schubring 19:05

Thank you, Nathan

Nathan Freeburg 19:06

And thank you listeners for listening to the Leadership Vision podcast. If you found value in this episode or any of our other material, we would really appreciate it if you could review the podcast wherever you get your podcasts, share it on social media, join our free email newsletter, either via the link in our description or at leadershipvisionconsulting.com/subscribe. We put out new episodes every week. My name is Nathan Freeburg,

Dr. Linda Schubring 19:31

I'm Linda Schubring.

Nathan Freeburg 19:33

and on behalf of our entire team, thanks for listening

Speaker 19:38

Go

Nathan Freeburg 19:38

And go play. Absolutely.