Women with Cool Jobs

Co-Executive Producer/Showrunner of Animated Series at the Walt Disney Company, with Pilar Flynn

February 22, 2023
Women with Cool Jobs
Co-Executive Producer/Showrunner of Animated Series at the Walt Disney Company, with Pilar Flynn
Show Notes Transcript

Pilar Flynn is a co-executive producer/showrunner at the Walt Disney Company where she's producing the animated TV series “Marvel’s Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur,” which is  based on Marvel's hit comic books.

Pilar is involved in both the business side and the creative side of producing, which is rare. She's a Latina and mom of 2 girls that grew up in Chile and Ecuador. She dreamt of working in the entertainment industry and wanted to be a storyteller. Now, Mickey Mouse is her boss! 

She began her animation career at DreamWorks where she co-produced the award-winning short, "First Flight," and worked on the production of films such as "The Road to El Dorado," "Sinbad," "Spirit," "Madagascar" and "Flushed Away." Pilar then went on to serve as associate producer of the animated feature film "Astroboy." She also co-produced the groundbreaking R-rated animated feature "Sausage Party" starring Seth Rogen.

Pilar is a true leader that values her team and their contributions. She leads with kindness, creativity, and vulnerability. As a result, people trust her and also feel empowered to be creative, solve problems, and take risks. She's also a huge champion of creating more opportunities for diversity and inclusion on show teams and in storylines.

Her most recent project is “Marvel’s Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur,” which is all about a super-smart, Black teenage superhero who roller skates and saves the day with her 10-ton dinosaur that loves hot dogs.  It's out in February 2023. The characters and cast are diverse. The creative style and music are fun, colorful, and unique. Moon Girl says, “One girl can make a difference.” Pilar is  one woman making a difference, too!


Resources:


Contact Info:
Pilar Flynn - Guest
@pilar.flynn (Instagram)
Pilar Flynn (LinkedIn)


Julie Berman - Host
www.womenwithcooljobs.com
@womencooljobs (Instagram)
Julie Berman (LinkedIn) 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I absolutely LOVE being the host and producer of "Women with Cool Jobs", where I interview women who have unique, trailblazing, and innovative careers. It has been such a blessing to share stories of incredible, inspiring women since I started in 2020.

If you have benefitted from this work, or simply appreciate that I do it, please consider buying me a $5 coffee. ☕️

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/julieberman

Thank you so much for supporting me -- whether by sharing an episode with a friend, attending a LIVE WWCJ event in Phoenix, connecting with me on Instagram @womencooljobs or LinkedIn, sending me a note on my website (www.womenwithcooljobs.com), or by buying me a coffee! It all means so much. <3

Pilar Flynn:

So you're constantly switching between hats in between, you know, inside of your brain as you go. So and that's why we always laugh that there's never a dull moment because it's like, you can be sitting, talking about the new software, you're going to be in what the problems of that software are in one meeting. And you can cut to the next meeting, and you're launching your composure on what the next song will be. And you can cut to the next meeting, now you're recording an actor. And then you get to the next meeting, you're talking to your studio in Australia about the problems with their animation or line animation, you know, and how much pencil mileage you're giving them versus not in complexity. So that's, we're changing. You gotta last strap in and hold on tight of your seat because it's like, every day.

Julie Berman - Host:

Hey, everybody, I'm Julie, and welcome to Women with cool jobs. Each episode will feature women with unique trailblazing and innovative crews will talk about how she got here, what life is like now, and actionable steps that you can take to go on a similar path, or one that's all your own. This podcast is about empowering you. It's about empowering you to dream big and to be inspired. You'll hear from incredible women in a wide variety of fields, and hopefully some that you've never heard of before. Women who filled robots and roadways, firefighters, C suite professionals surrounded by men, social media mavens, entrepreneurs, and I'm so glad we get to go on this journey together. Hello, everybody, this is Julie Berman and welcome to a another episode of women with cool jobs. So I am so excited to be here it is the first episode of 2023. And I hope you had an amazing holiday and New Year, I hope that you were able to hopefully relax a little bit reflect a little bit, spend some time with people you love and who love you. I know that my holidays are a little bit crazy, because we had a family member who had a big health scare. And when that happens, certainly puts things in, in really big perspective makes you reflect in different ways than you know, just the normal and I'm so grateful that that person is now healing and that I'm here able to be with you on a new podcast episode in a new year with some really cool guests lined up. And just being able to share these incredible women and their stories with you. And what they're doing is truly an honor. Today's guest is really, really awesome. And I'm so excited that she's the first guest of 2023. Her name is polar Flynn. She's the CO executive producer and showrunner on Marvel's Moon girl and devil dinosaur, which is an animated series that's going to be coming out on Disney Channel on February 10th. And then Disney plus on February 15. And Pilar is really really got some incredible experience because she has worked in really different ways in the animated storytelling world. So she has been a producer that's worked on the business side of things that's balancing, that she calls it the triangle, because everything needs to be equal of cost, quality and time. She's also worked on the creative side of things where she's helping to figure out the scripts and the storylines. And who's going to be voicing the characters and what they're going to look like, and the music and like all this stuff. And so she is one of the rare people who have actually worked on both the business side and the creative side. So that was really interesting to hear about her experience. Also, she's done feature length film, so those longer ones that you see, you know, that are like about two hours long as she's done TV animated series, as well. So it's really, really such a pleasure to hear not only about the different experiences that she has as a storyteller, but it's also cool because she is a leader in her field. And she is a leader who does things differently. She leads with intention. She leads with empathy. She leads with authenticity. And it's really shown in what she's been able to do. She's had many firsts that she's done. So she helped produce Disney's Elena of Avila lore, which was the first Latina princess. It was a TV series. And it was really, really important to her also because she is herself, a native of Chilean Ecuador. And she didn't come to United States until she went to Boston University as an undergrad. And so that was really really cool for her to work on personally and she also has two daughters. was for 10 and 13. And then also, she's worked now on the moon girl and devil dinosaur, which is all about this 13 year old black girl who is from the Lower East Side in New York. And she has a friend who is also a person of colors to females who have the strong relationships, she has a dinosaur who's helping her. And so she's bringing these stories to life, that have diversity, that have these intentional messages that are coming out in and is really needed right now in the world. And she also is sure to have the people on her team who are diverse themselves. And she's leading the team in a way that I think is so incredibly beautiful. And it's intentional, because she's allowing people to share, like, what they want to see their experiences, to be comfortable in sharing, like things that are going wrong. And coming to the table in saying, Okay, let's solve this together. Let's think of it as a game and like to figure out a solution. I mean, what an incredible environment and culture to set for a team. So this was a really wonderful, wonderful interview on so many different levels, from not only understanding the industry that she's in the work that she's done in the experience, like to understand what that's like in animation and to get all these different little insights into that, but also to see who she is as a leader, what she's done, that is different, that is breaking the mold of what was done generations ago. And what that can look like now, especially as a female leader. So I just want to mention to like you probably heard of some of the things that she's worked on. She has worked on, as I mentioned, Elena of Avila lore. Currently Moon girl and devil dinosaur. She's also in the past worked on the road to Eldorado Sinbad, spirit, Madagascar, flushed away, she worked on the film Astroboy she helped co produce a groundbreaking R rated animated feature called Sausage Party with with Seth Rogen. And she is super involved in trying to also bring diverse voices and diverse people onto her team and also just into animation in general, which is so incredible. And she's really, really someone who I enjoyed speaking to, for so many different reasons. There were so many incredible takeaways, the the beautiful one for me was what she talks about fear and realizing that so many people have fear. Even if on the outside, they look like they're cool and calm and collected like a cucumber. But so many times people have fear, and that it's possible to achieve so many incredible things and to be a leader, even if you do have fear. So that was huge, a huge takeaway for me. So without further ado, I hope you enjoy this episode with polar Flynn. It was so much fun to chat with her. And Happy Happy New Year. Happy 2023. Hi, Paula, I'm so excited to have you here on women with cool jobs.

Pilar Flynn:

Oh, thank you, Julie. It's so good to see you again. Thanks for having me.

Julie Berman - Host:

Yes, of course. So you have a really, really cool job. And I was so happy to you know, be able to talk about what you do on this podcast. Because you have I think one of the jobs that a lot of little kids, if they didn't know about it, they might know about it now and might dream about becoming a producer. And you have done so much in the world of production. As far as doing animated feature length films. You've done now you're working on this really adorable animated TV show called Marvel's Moon girl and devil dinosaur. So I'm so excited to talk about that. But in general, you've held a lot of really interesting positions where you have the ability to work as a producer and work more on the business side of things. And you've also had the opportunity to get into the creative side of things, and contribute in that way as a creative producer. And I know from what you told me, it was it's really unusual to be able to do those, both of those aspects. And so I am I'm really excited for what you're going to share with us today. All the sort of the little details about what you do. And they just sound like so much

Pilar Flynn:

fun. Oh, thank you so much. And yes, it is a lot of fun. And yeah, I'm glad to be here to demystify it a little bit. It was kind of a strange thing for me to when I first started I had no idea what a producer did so Oh,

Julie Berman - Host:

yeah, so your chat about it. I, I'm excited to hear about it. I want to start off if you can share in your own words like, how would you describe your job as a producer of an animated feature on either you know, the big screen or what you're working on now, as this animated television series coming out on Disney soon?

Pilar Flynn:

Yeah. Well, what's funny is producer in general is such a strange job, because unlike the artists, you don't have something to show for it at the end of the day. So there's nothing you can point to and say, That's what I do on a day to day basis. So it becomes this very strange job and role that people know it means you're in charge. But what does it mean to be in charge. And especially in animation, where like I say, it's such an art form, unlike being on a set where people see you talking to people or getting things to along. So in animation, especially in animation producer can be many different things, like you mentioned. And just to share with everyone, there's kind of three branches of what a producer, when you see that title on screen, what they could be. One is you could be an executive, which means you're more of an overall producer, maybe you're the person that helped bring the project to the studio or help fund it or, or got it going in some major way. There's someone called the line producer, and the line producers more kind of the business person, they're the ones it's called line, because you're overlooking the line items of the schedule, the budget, the day to day kind of moving things along, making sure everything's from a business perspective, coming together, all the puzzle pieces are matching up. And then there's a creative producer. And what they do is more, bring the vision to life and make sure that you are hiring the right actors that you're putting the right leads in charge and the roles that you're coordinating with the music department, you know what kind of music so you're basically in charge of the creative vision. And, again, animation, it is rare to kind of do both. Usually you have a line producer, you have a producer, maybe there's an executive, because they are such different skills. And there's so much to be done within that. So on moon girl and devil dinosaur, I actually started off as a producer more kind of on the business side, I would say more of a seeing the the budget schedule resources and the crew. But I was so excited about the project, I have always been a very creative person I have creatively produced my own shows that on this project, I really wanted to kind of be both. And I've now since then moved over completely over to the creative side. So now I'm what's called co executive producer, another, you know, weird title. But what it means is that your co showrunner, but you oversee the creative vision now. And I have an incredible producer that oversees kind of the day to day to make sure all those puzzle pieces are fitting together.

Julie Berman - Host:

Okay, thank you. That was such an amazing overview. And I. So I want to before we kind of like launch more into all the details about what you do, which because it sounds so fun. I want to talk about like you as a little girl. I know when we were chatting so I could learn a little bit more about your job before this interview showed me the cutest picture of you and Mickey and like now Mickey's your boss, crazy. So how did you get to this place? Like, did you always want to be in this type of creative role? How did you know even what a producer was? Or did you fall into it? Like, tell us a little bit about you as a kid? And kind of like how you got here?

Pilar Flynn:

Yeah, of course. Well, I didn't grow up here in the States. I grew up in South America and moved around a lot South American Europe. I'm a Latina, I'm half Ecuadorian, half Chilean. And so as a little girl growing up in the late 70s, early 80s, you know, in Latin America, working in Hollywood was a really far fetched dream. And working in animation was even, you know, more far fetched like, it's not even something that crossed my mind, it would have crossed anyone's mind to bring up to me. But I knew one thing, and that's that I loved storytelling, loved story making. I wanted to do that when I grew up. And the funny thing is, I always loved animation. And because I moved around so much, animation was the one constant that I always had, no matter where I was, those characters were my friends, I related to them. Even though I was a little Latina. What's magical about animation and cartoons is that you can design characters to look like anything. So no matter who you are, you can project yourself, you know, into those characters. And I love that so much. So I from the time I was five, and you saw me with Mickey, you know, sitting on his lap, like, you know, just looking at him as a huge hero. I knew I wanted to come to the States and tell stories. So I worked really hard on my life to try to get there. I eventually got accepted to Boston University's School of Communication for film and TV. And they had this great international program. And I went there thinking I would be a writer and director of films, and so started working on that. And it wasn't until I left the EU, drove my little car directly from Boston to La because I knew that's where you had to be to to make films happen. And of course, I had no family in the state so I had no no other place to go. So got over here came here with a lot of Boston University friends and graduates that moved out with me. And I started working in live action as an intern and then as an assistant, and quickly realized it was not anything like I had fantasized working in film would be, I was picking up people's laundry and walking their dog and getting coffee and kind of being kind of bullied, you know, a bit because, you know, it's a tough industry. And I thought God would, when am I going to get to, like, actually tell my stories. And what happened was a couple of few friends of mine had started at DreamWorks feature animation. And they were loving it. And they were telling us all about their incredible jobs. And they were saying, Oh, my God, we love you would not believe it's amazing. You're at DreamWorks. There's things called storyboard artists. And they pitch their stories in a room and you get to hear it and comment. And there's composers that come in and, you know, do music to film, the actors come in and record. And we have story meetings where we talk about the script, and we work with the writers and I thought, what is that magical land known as animation? How can I get into it, and the most mind blowing part to me, which hopefully I can pass on to some of your listeners is, there are so many jobs in animation, and you do not have to be an artist to work in animation. And most of us think we do most of us think we have to be professional artists and incredible drawers, you know. And that's not the case. In animation. It turns out there are jobs for people who love management who love psychology, there are designers, there are people who work in editorial and post there are people who promote the show people who do the music, people who work with casting, you know, or if you're tech savvy, there's so many jobs, you know, as far as the digital components are working with the software. So I was so excited to find that not only when I entered animation, there were all these different jobs. But it was also really international place that there are people from all over the world working in it. So you get to meet people from all walks of life. And as soon as I joined DreamWorks features I knew that was my home. That was where I was always meant to be. And yeah, I've been there ever since almost 24 years later, here I am.

Julie Berman - Host:

Wow. Yeah, that's so amazing that like, you knew once you got there, that it was it was for you. So and I appreciate that you sharing too, there were so many opportunities that you realized that you didn't have to be someone who knew how to draw. Because I don't know if that's in you probably have experienced with probably a lot of people don't know that it's not obvious. And I love hearing that. Because it's like, I It's always amazing how many different jobs I discover, even as I do this podcast. So it's like, just in that one, you know that one world of animation, there's like all these possibilities. And I love that you shared. Also, you know that you always had this vision for yourself. And I want to ask because I feel like coming to the US. And then also moving to LA like those are pretty big, very brave and courageous things to do. Like I've moved short term and I knew the short term to to other countries. And and like one was with a different language one wasn't. But for me, even knowing it was short term, it was like very overwhelming. And really fun, but also a little bit of a shock to my system. And so I feel like you know, you kind of went over that quickly. But that those actions in and of itself are like very brave. And so I just would love to one of the things that you talked about too, when we were talking offline. And I really wanted to bring it up because I thought it was so important for people to hear and it reflects also in those those things that you did in your past was you talk about how everyone gets scared. And you said, quote, I don't have to be afraid of my own fear. You know, and why not me? And so I don't know if you've ever thought about it that way. But like I was thinking as you're telling that story that you almost had that sort of like courageous attitude to go for it at such a young age. So I was curious if you could speak about that quote, and kind of how you've gone through life and like, gotten to this point in your career?

Pilar Flynn:

Yes. Yeah. It's funny because I couldn't put words to it until recently. And a very good friend of mine who actually started with me at DreamWorks back in the day and went to college with me, recently gave me a quote, she said, I saw this quote, and I thought of you and when she gave it to me, I thought, Oh my God, that's that's exactly how I've been feeling this whole time. And the quote is, and one day she discovered that she was fierce and strong and full of fire, and that not even she could hold herself back because her passion burned brighter than her fears. And when she gave me that I thought, Oh my God, that's it. That's the secret because one thing I did realize early on in my career that that did help me in climbing the ladder is I came in just like you were saying I was terrified. But I knew I had to do this. I knew I had to tell stories I wanted to come to Hollywood is what I wanted to do. Since I was five, and I didn't know how I was gonna do it, I had no greencard, I, you know, English was my second language at the time. But I just knew I had, I knew if I move forward and didn't feel frozen by my fear that I could continue to move forward towards my passion instead that I would find the journey that would lead me to where I was supposed to be. So early on in my career, even though I was and I know, we chatted about this, too, that as a little girl, I, I was really shy, I was scared of the world. I was shy, I was scared to talk to strangers, but I knew I love to tell stories. And once I started my career, I was terrified of these producers that were so they just seem so confident and so aggressive, and intimidating. And they just seemed like they had all the answers. And I thought to myself, when I first started, oh, my God, I don't think I could ever do that I could never be that I don't feel that way about myself. That was it interesting enough, is that I got to do enough jobs that I got to work with a lot of those people I got to see behind the scenes of those high level jobs and those executives. And what I very quickly realized is that when they were in front of the crew, when they were in front of the camera, when they were talking, they were very good at playing this role. They were very good at pretending to be confident and like, they knew what they were saying. And, and, and the second I would follow them to their room and we would close the door, they would suddenly fall apart. And they would say things to me, like I do was okay. Oh my god. And I had this one boss in particular that everyone looked up to everyone thought, Oh, my God, this, this person is just nothing could possibly break through his skin. And I saw that person in their office literally take their shoes off, fall apart on their desk, like almost in tears going, oh my god, did I do the right thing? Was that the right? And I was consoling him. And at that moment, I realized, oh my God, even this person is afraid. It's not that he's not afraid. It's that he's really good at presenting. And once I realized that I was less afraid than he was. That's not me the confidence to be like, Oh my gosh, it's okay to be afraid what's not okay is to hold yourself back because of it. We all feel that way. And once you allow yourself to, to break through that, instead of beating yourself up for feeling afraid, or feeling shy or not feeling confident, instead telling yourself yeah, I feel things. And that's cool. So does everybody else in this room, you know, and I'm going to do this anyway. That is what gives you the power. And so I built my career on that. And everything I've done, every job I've gone into a lot of them have been jobs that other people were too afraid to take. I know when we were chatting when I took on sausage party that was going to be the first ever R rated CG feature that you know, Seth Rogen and his team was going to make and people were kind of afraid of that no one had done it before. They thought there was a reason probably no one had ever done it before. And I thought, heck yeah, that sounds amazing. That sounds like something that should be done, I'd love to be a part of. And then same thing when I transitioned into Disney Television Animation, I had never done TV before. And TV is a very different beast from features. And so to go in, and at the time, it was to be the producer of Elena of Avila, who is going to be their first princess based on Latin folklore. So their first Latina Princess, that was a huge, scary responsibility for me. I thought, oh my god, this now not only means a lot to me in my career, but a lot to me personally, to, for my own culture bring to life the first ever Latina Princess, there was so much fear around that I can't even tell you. But at the same time, I thought, Yes, I am afraid and that is a good thing. That means that is absolutely something I should do. And so I dove in, worked really hard to teach myself TV told people when I was vulnerable and didn't know what I was doing asked a million questions and wasn't afraid to tell people Yeah, I don't know this or I need help with that. And yeah, I was able to take that with me to them. We were on devil dinosaur and again on moon girl. I tried something that terrified me, which was I really wanted my voice to be heard on the show. It meant so much to me to do the show about Marvel's first ever black teen girl superhero and her best friend who was a Latina and a dinosaur. And I was like, oh my god, this is everything my soul is wanted to be doing. And I was so scared to verbalize yes is what I want to do. I want to be a creative voice on this. But I did it anyway. And now here I am. So I'm so glad I did.

Julie Berman - Host:

Yeah, it's I just think like, what you what you've done and also what you're doing is just so inspirational be and I love that you explain kind of your perspective on fear it and sort of like going for it knowing that everyone has these fears with some people are really quite good at putting up a front or facade or like, you know, hiding it a bit. And I think that's such a powerful thing to know because i i Like I know for myself too. Like it's so helpful to hear your story in so many women's stories because it gives me more it makes me feel more empowered. You know, hearing that even though I I will likely never be a producer. But it's just like hearing your examples of, you know, specifically like all the incredible work you've done, and what you're doing. And really, in so many ways, I think you've, you've broken a lot of the norms for maybe what was the standard for people to do. And you've worked on these really like cool kind of edgy or groundbreaking projects, which is in itself, like I told my husband when I was gonna do this interview, and I was telling him about you and like, all the fun things you've worked on, and, and he was like, that's totally up your alley, like, She's such a good fit. So just, yeah, it's so it's just, it makes me so excited to hear your story and to, you know, to share it. And I wanted to say like, one of the things that I really loved about the work you're doing now and that I wanted to point out and, and for people who go, they'll be able to watch it on Disney and Disney plus in February. But we like when we were just talking and I was doing also research, I noticed, I really noticed a few things. And I just wanted to bring them up because I wanted you to share your thoughts on them. And I'm curious to see specifically because you are a woman and you have two daughters, 10 and 13. Also, if this sort of if you feel like that is part of how you now go about things and go about these decisions. And so what I noticed, which i i loved is you know, in moon girl and devil dinosaur, there was like really important themes or characteristics. So diversity and representation, which was awesome to see. I really loved it. They were strong bonds and relationships between the female characters. And also that there was like that multi generational family component. I grew up with a grandmother I was super close to and like she would come over all the time, after school, we would see over her house, like I love that personally, I thought my grandma was the best. And then there was like super fun music. And also just the colors or like, everything about it is very hip and vibrant, and like a little bit edgy. So I was just wondering, you know, if you could speak to this, because you are part of that creative part of that creative team and like working on like, what it will become because I feel like it's very hip and new. And groundbreaking for many of these reasons.

Pilar Flynn:

It was so good. Ya know, you're very perceptive. And you basically hit on all the things, all the goals we were trying to achieve. Sounds good. I'm like, Yeah, I'm listening to you going? Yes. Since it's not out yet. We haven't gotten a lot of feedback. So that's so great that resonated with you. And yes, you are correct, that we very consciously tried to go for that. Like I say that that was our goal. And it started with a leadership team that was diverse that knew, you know, it was important to us. Laurence Fishburne and Helen Cygwin are the executive producers. And they brought on Steve loader who, you know, is an animation veteran. And it was really important to them to bring on a team that not only would be diverse, but that would also be really collaborative. And that's something that's not that doesn't always happen in animation, or really any show. And from the start, we vocalize that we made that our mission statement, we wanted this to be a show that where the cast and the characters on screen, were also reflected by the people behind the scenes making them and bringing them to life. And we knew from our experience that it was so authentic to have, or it's so important to have those authentic voices telling those stories. So as producers, that was our first mission is to hire a team that could fulfill that goal. And we did we're an incredible team that is 84%. Diverse. We're mostly made up of women, people of color and members of the LGBTQ plus community. And not only did we hire them, just so we could say we did, we actually told them all. We want this to be a collaborative show, we want your thoughts at every stage, we want you to tell us your ideas, your lines of dialogue that you might authentically say if you see something that doesn't look right, please let us know. We even had one of our team members who's one of our supervisors, the amazing Alan March, he helped to create an actual diversity tracker that he did on his own to literally track because the Gina Davis Institute had pushed to do that a lot. But not a lot of people actually go through and do it. We did we actually created an Excel sheet that lists every character on our show, and what they represent so that we could even as a diverse team ourselves with our own unconscious bias, we wouldn't let that get in our way. We could see what the blank spaces were what we weren't filling in. And we would then take that and design those spaces, so that we try as best as possible to authentically represent the Lower East Side, but also the world and also our own team. And I think you can really feel that in the show itself. When you see it. It doesn't feel like a one note show kind of like you were saying it feels like there were all these different voices and lives and perspective. just woven through. And at every stage, we encourage the team because animation is like a bit of a factory line, you do one stage and then you pass it on to the next person, they do their pass, and then you pass it on. And so like that, it's like a cake, you just keep layering ingredients on top. And until you get that final little cherry on top. But we gave them so much flexibility. And we allow them to be creative along the way to add their own special ingredient. special spice. And what you get is yeah, just this, this, this delicious cake and meal of yeah, like I say, just this melting pot of perspectives. So I'm so glad you felt that. And I'm just so I'm so proud of my team, because this truly is a collaborative show not made by one person, but made by many and many very passionate people.

Julie Berman - Host:

Yeah, it definitely shows and I think I just saw it, you know, trailer. And then you know, the research that I did like little bits and pieces, but you can definitely tell that there's the layers there that you guys were so intentional about which I think is really neat to see. And then I showed my kids last night before we're supposed to record this today. And they like especially my older one who's seven, he was like super excited. He likes Marvel, and he likes solid colors. And yeah, so he was excited. So I think it's nice that there's the components for the kids, of course. But it's also nice that that things are so beautifully thought out. And the detail is there. And you know

Pilar Flynn:

what else? I love Julie's picture, but what you're saying is that, yes, this was a show about two little girls to female. Well, one superhero in her best friend. But, you know, a lot of the times people think, Oh, it's a show about girls, for girls. No, this is a show for everyone. And I'm so excited that yes, the two main characters are female. But boys connect with the two and boys feel just as excited about it. And that was a goal of ours as well. And, you know, so excited to hear that it did resonate with your,

Julie Berman - Host:

your. Yeah, and I, I want to talk about too, because you mentioned like how basically, there are so many people working on this show. And I know the timeline for each episode, you talked about it taking, like 18 months to produce like one episode. And so I would love for you to speak about sort of the, you know, the details of your job and like what you do, if not every day, like every week or sort of so people can understand like, what are the what are the big things? What are your big goals as producer, whether creative or you know, in that more executive, or business side? And then also kind of like, what are the actual daily things? Because you showed me this incredible like spreadsheet of all these colors, and all these different people working on all these different tasks. And it looked like I mean, just an amazing skill set to even be able to like create something like that, let alone. Yeah, it was amazing. It's like just, you know, it's just like tons and tons of little tiny cells and colors to touch. Yeah. And to figure out like, who's doing what in it. I know, you talked about how one thing is really connected to the next thing to the next thing to the next thing. And it's the pipeline that you talked about. So I'd love to hear you speak about that process. Because that was really fascinating. And I think it was interesting because you having that skill set is different to me than like the skill set that you'd also have to do the creative side. So I'd love to hear about that aspect. Like the people management, the things management.

Pilar Flynn:

Yeah, one of the coolest things about my job is that it's constantly changing. No one day is the same as another day. There's so much happening all the times. It's funny because my producer now but I've had to try this. And I we always joke that there's never a dull moment, like every day, something crazy blows up. And we just look at each other and laugh and we're like never a dull moment. Like we'd be bankers if you know, we didn't want this excitement. Because things are constantly changing, things are constantly shifting. So as a producer, both creative, or the line producer that I was mentioning a lot of your job, it's actually two things. If you love psychology, human psychology, and if you love playing games and winning this, this is the job for you. So you don't have to know art but you do have to love art and appreciate art and understand what the artists do. But most of our job is planning putting a plan together and taking that that visual, the creative vision and what the artist skill sets are putting a plan to it and then watching a change and blow up on you along the way and laughing about it and being excited about finding those solutions. But the thing is, it's not as scary as it sounds because that's the fun in it is that you know there's going to be something new that you have to solve but the best part is you got you get to solve it with your friends. You get to work with your team and figure out alright, this is what's going on. Here's an option. What do you think you know how Did we put this together? And it's it's watching it's like, like I say, it's a tetris game or Donkey Kong game where, you know, those barrels are coming down, you know, you have to figure out how to grab them as quickly as possible and how to get it to go. But when, at the end of the day, the episode comes together, and it's beautiful, and you're proud of it, it is the most fulfilling feeling i I've ever had to see all that come together. It's like, it's like you've had this baby, and you've watched it grow up and go out in the world and be beautiful and successful. And you've done it with a team of people you love and adore. So starting with, you know, and like I say, it's ever changing, because it starts with development, obviously, you start with a blank slate, and what are we going to do, and sometimes you are part of developing what the idea is, sometimes you come on when it's already developed in what we call greenlit, which means the studio has decided to put money behind it, and then you get handed it. And you basically get handed, usually a script, if you're lucky, you know, and maybe a showrunner or a director that you're going to partner with. And the studio will help you find a studio to animate it, etc. But yeah, you start with a blank slate. So you start planning for the beginning, you start hiring, you start figuring out how much it's going to cost. And from there, once you've got your plan, things shift along the way, because unlike an actual factory pipeline, you don't know what it's going to look like at the end. And things are constantly changing. And because it takes 18 months to do one episode, and usually a few years to do an entire season or an entire feature. So much can change along the way you can change our people or the culture can change or people could want something more than something else. So all along the way, you're either managing to that schedule, or trying to fix things. And the main milestone steps are development that I'd mentioned, starting production. So starting the script, then going into animating, you know what you've actually storyboarded thumb nailed out and put a script to, and then once you animate it, you add the color. And by the way that the sounds very much like a train. And it's not a completely it's like it's on the schedule. It's like this interval woven tapestry, you know, so it doesn't function in that perfect way, it kind of goes back and forth quite a bit. But then you put music to it, and then you composite it, you know, digitally you put everything together. And then your job isn't done once the episode is in the can actually because then you've got to promote and you've got to do toys and work with franchise to to actually get it out in the world and make it a success. And then the business side comes back in. So yeah, along the way, you're wearing all these different hats. And yeah, it can get a bit overwhelming at times. But like I say, if you can laugh through it, and you've got a team that really supports you, it can be so much fun along the way as well.

Julie Berman - Host:

Yeah, thank you for explaining that. And I think that was the most interesting thing was in you describing like all the different, not only sort of roles that people have within the process, but also your role as a whole overseeing it. And like making everything work at the end, you know, and figuring out like how you use the word Tetris before like figuring out how you're going to move all those pieces, and having that sort of knowledge that things aren't going to go as originally planned, and this beautiful graphic that you created, but also knowing that you have people that you can count on who are going to be collaborative and work together to figure out it's interesting, because I think in, in my experience, I have never met you know, anyone in your role. And so I really had no idea what to expect. But I think that idea of you wearing so many hats, and sort of helping in so many capacities is is really interesting, because it shows you know, that because you have had so many experiences, you know, you started at DreamWorks. And then I know you also mentioned working for like smaller, smaller companies and getting experience there and that we talked off talked offline about that a little bit. But just like how's that sort of prepared you to be where you are now and allowing you to also do these things that you've never done but like one time after another time after another time. And I'm curious like for you in this in this role where you're currently doing the creative side like What is your favorite or favorites if it's hard to choose one of your favorite parts of doing this job because it really sounds so fun. And it also sounds really stressful. I just curious what what is it that like has kept you energized and excited and like sort of constantly pushing the boundary for yourself and also you with the people you work with?

Pilar Flynn:

Well for sure the Most fun is working with the people, you know, that I had mentioned to working with these incredibly talented people, artists production management folk that we have as well on the show, just their passion and having that shared goal, and just becoming friends with them. So like I say, even on moon girl, the best part is, you know, no matter what department you're working with, or what meeting you're doing, just getting to laugh together, or, you know, get through that next stage or being presented with some conflict. And it's funny to say it's fun when conflicts arise. But it is fun when you see it as a game, and you're able to roll up your sleeves and go, you know, here's another one, let's figure it out together. And as far as the creative aspects, something that's been so much fun for me is working with the writers in the writers room, Kate Condell, Is Our Story Editor, co producer, and now co executive producer. So she's a co showrunner as well, along with myself and Rodney cloud. And, and so she runs the team of right now all female writers. And so working with her and being in the room, and with all these incredible women talking about stories, and what was important to us when we were 13. And what we want to see stories about what we would have wanted to see stories about that's so much fun, because it's like getting to hang out with your friends and chat about your life, and then writing about it and then writing and then getting to read their scripts about it and seeing it improve all along the way. And kind of like you were saying, with women, it's so wonderful in the show to me as well to see these incredible female partnerships and bonds. And it's not something we've always had in the industry, because there haven't been a lot of women in leadership roles up until now. And so to be honest, for a lot of the time, there was a lot of competition or you know, there weren't those, those short bonds that you were gonna make, you know, with the other women that you worked with. But now things have changed. And now that there are so many more spaces, and that our show is half women actually, we probably have a little more than half women on the show. You're finally able to release kind of that, that fear and, and really work together. So yeah, we're we're in that writers room together. It's pure magic. It's just like, we're 13 Again, having fun and chatting about like what's important to us, and then getting to share it with the world. I mean, what's better than that?

Julie Berman - Host:

Yeah, that's awesome. And I'm curious, like, because you have worked on so many really incredible, creative projects that that have been released into the world and enjoyed by so many, like, what is that? What How does it feel to sort of like, be working on something for so long behind the scenes, and then you release it to the world? Like, I'm just curious what that feels like, because I've never done something to that scale. Like I released my podcast episode, but like you're releasing, you know, and that so I'm, how does that feel? Like? What is that? Like, if you can explain that?

Pilar Flynn:

Oh, wow. It's amazing. And since we're both moms, I can explain to you because you know, you'll understand it really is like raising a kid. And then that fear of seeing them go out into the world. And you know, when you send them off to school for the first day, all your hopes and dreams for them. I hope they make friends. I hope people like them, I hope, I hope they feel confident, you know, are proud of themselves, you know more than you are proud of them. And it's all those feelings when a show comes out, you feel like it's your baby. And sometimes the show doesn't do well. Sometimes you work on something for five years of your life and it comes out and it's out for a weekend and it's over and no one remembers what it even was. And it can be so disheartening, but then you go on to work on your next kid, you know, and you hope that that does better. So what I've learned is ultimately, it's not about that destination, it's about the journey, it's about enjoying the day to day with you know your quote unquote kid and and seeing it grow and putting your love into it not worrying so much about what everyone else will think of it if it's something you're enjoying and loving. That's all that matters. And I'll tell you on Atlanta that was the show I was most proud of because we felt that way all along making Atlanta like it was just this this you know passionate excitement from all of us that we were doing something different, something special, something that meant something to us and to my own family and having my own little girls see themselves represented on screen and I think I was telling you in our chat that the moment that turned everything for me and I knew I had to continue making content that actually meant something to people was hearing my own little girl say mama I'm a Latina so that means I can do anything to hear those words come out of their mouth and know that they learned that from a Nina was so impactful to me personally. And then to see that resonate in within my own culture with other little girls I'd meet or with other students I'd speak to when I go out there was so fulfilling so that's why when I went to New Moon girl and devil the dinosaur, I wanted that feeling again, and we are all on the team so proud of it. In fact, we keep telling this to ourselves. We're like, oh my god, this is our our shared kid that we All brought up together. But you know what, even if no one else in the world watches it, it doesn't matter. We feel so proud. And we know we did something that we wish someone had made for us. And so ultimately, that's now my goal more than seeing it be successful out there is. Yeah, making it for myself and kind of like you said, for for my young girls, if they're loving it, then I've done my job.

Julie Berman - Host:

Yeah, that's awesome. It's funny. You say that too, because I used to call my podcast, my third baby. And then I had a baby. So now it's my fourth baby. Yeah, right. Yeah. Got got knocked down a bit, but that's okay. But yeah, I, I really respect that. And it is interesting, because talking about, you know, sort of the the final outcome, I think sometimes we've learned, you know, it's like that sort of like, I'm in a competition, I'm gonna win. And it's like, you have so much focus on that, that end goal, or that endpoint, whatever it is. But it's like, you're not even enjoying the process to get there. And so that's amazing that you guys have that perspective, where you're taking it all in as you're going through the process, and like truly, living it up. You know, in that moment, I It's like, I there's one woman who I love it, her name is Susie Moore, but she she talks all the time about like, your life is now like, this is your life, like you got to you got to enjoy the now. So

Pilar Flynn:

took me a while to learn that for a long time, I was pursuing that goal. And I wanted to be a producer. And I tell you, it was the moment I let that go. It was the moment I realized or thought that. And I think I shared the story with you that I got told along the way that I was being too nice, or I was being too friendly to the artists or my leadership style wasn't what they were used to, it wasn't what they considered kind of elite, because you know, like I said to you a lot of times back then the lead of the show was more intimidating or more just a little removed. And it was once I let all that go and try to fit into a mold. I wasn't and just decided to be who I was and enjoy the journey. That is actually when I started climbing the ladder. And that is when I started getting the producer opportunities. And I try to hold on to that authentic self and also hire other people that that felt that same way. And that's when I was finally able to kind of reach that goal. So it's funny, it's when you're so focused on a goal sometimes that you can't see the forest, you know, in front of you. But yeah, it's when you stop focusing so much on that destination that all these amazing paths will open up that will eventually lead you there anyway, if you were meant to get there.

Julie Berman - Host:

Yeah. And I appreciate you sharing that. I'm curious to follow up on that. Like, do you think that it was you got sort of more comfortable and confident in who you are and your skill set that you offer? Like, what do you think it was that allowed you to get to that place? And because I think like so many people, it's like we see these other people who have success, however you want to define that. And so it's like we we almost try to emulate them like coffee, then it doesn't always work. So well. Like if that's not who you are so curious. What was it? Do you? I don't know if you can pinpoint it or like a few things. But like, yeah,

Pilar Flynn:

no, that's such a good question. That's something I've thought so much about. For me personally, it was there was a very specific moment in time, where I was told that I wasn't fitting that mold, and I tried to fit it. And it physically made me feel sick to my stomach to kind of be this person I wasn't or to try to, like I say be intimidating or be be a mean boss. And once I let that go and decided to embrace who I was and things I enjoyed, I started noticing something interesting. And that's that the artists would come to me with the problems like sometimes they would hide it from other producers. But with me, they come and tell me. And of course, once they come and tell me, we'd be able to collaborate together. And because they trusted me, we'd be able to fix the problem. Or the other way around, sometimes that there was an issue and the artist had to step up, I started noticing that some producers that were kind of more fear based would tell the artist and the artist couldn't produce because art is something you can do well, when there isn't a lot of fear when you have space to feel creative, when you feel safe, when you can trust the person you're doing it for. And so a lot of times the artist would be told, okay, make this go do this or make it great, you know, and it's not something that can organically happen. Whereas when I would go to them and say hey, we're in trouble, we need to get this done by this. What do you need? Like Like, how can I help? Can we get you dinner? Can we I had that ability to make them feel safe. And so slowly I started realizing that the skills I had the empathy I had the compassion that I was told was a weakness was actually my greatest strength. And once I realized that and lead into it, combined with what I was telling you about fear once I realized, oh my gosh, they're all just as afraid as I am sometimes more. I was able to step into a role in a way others hadn't. For example, firing Someone like if somebody wasn't doing well, a lot of the times a person would get fired and not told why or given feedback, and they would go away, and it would be just so destructive and awful to everyone. For me, if I ever heard somebody wasn't doing well, I took the other route, I would go and talk to them and say, Hey, this is what I'm hearing, why is it? What can I do? What's wrong? Is there something and what would happen is, they would, again, they would trust me, they would tell me, Oh, it's this or that. And I could either help them or sometimes I couldn't help them. But that in itself was helping them. Because as we went along, when it was time to do the quote, unquote, firing, I could be the one to go to them and go, Hey, we've talked about this, we've worked on this, we've tried that we've tried this option, this probably just isn't the right fit for you, you know, you would probably be happier doing something else. And at that point, that firing became a kinder, more positive outcome for everyone involved. And it's so funny to me, because to this day, I've had people come up to me and go, You know what it was, you know, I had this horrible, challenging time on that show, and it really sucked that I got fired. But if I was gonna get fired, I'm so glad that I was fired by you. And I take that as such a huge compliment, because that is not an easy thing to do. And I remember at that moment, just feeling so torn. But I would always volunteer to be the one to do the talking. Because I knew if I did it, I would do it in a respectful kind way. And I always felt like the person deserved that. So yeah, it's just started leaning into those skills that I guess because I was a more shy, quiet, compassionate person. Even though I was told that was a weakness. Like I say, I realized that that is actually the strongest kind of leader. And I think people are starting to realize that now, which I'm so excited about. There are so many great leaders that have a lot more of that. But then once I got to be in charge, I now got to hire leaders that also believe that too. And so now my team is all very competitive. And I tell you, even when we make mistakes, which we make all the time, as opposed to in the past, I would have been afraid to like share that or you tried to hide it. Now we all just laugh about it. Now people aren't afraid on my team to say, Oh, crap, I made this mistake. How do we fix it, and we all laugh about it, we all share other mistakes we've made, and we figure it out together and move on. And that I think, is also what makes my job so much fun.

Julie Berman - Host:

You know, that's such an incredible environment to have created. I feel like for me, and I feel like probably many other people listening would love to work in an environment, whatever the career that they're in, you know, where you're free to make mistakes, you're also able to collaborate and be creative. It's like all those things sound really wonderful. So that's amazing to hear. And I appreciate you sharing. So candidly, as part of your job. We talked a little bit about sort of the pipeline aspect, I was hoping you could speak a little bit about kind of the decisions, the hard decisions that you have to make. In particular, you talked about a triangle with sort of three, three different aspects that you're balancing. So kind of like the harder components of the balancing. But then also, you mentioned some really fun components of like, travel and like music and and creating characters. So I'd love to hear you know, just like a little bit about about kind of those polar opposites, perhaps the i That's how I thought of it, but I'm curious how you think of it, just those aspects of your job?

Pilar Flynn:

Absolutely, yes, there's the left brain skills and the right brain skills. And for me, I love both, you know, and so that's why I think I'm rare, because, you know, most people lean one way or the other. But when you love both and get to see both of them intertwine. It's so much fun. But yes, the left brain side of the job is like you were mentioning that kind of line producer aspect, which is you're balancing all the time, budget and resources of your project. So it is like a triangle and we say a triangle, because you want to keep it that shape, you want to keep it balanced between the three because you can have all the money in the world, and all the artists in the world. But if you have a day to make it, you're not gonna be able to make it happen, right? Or, you know, similarly, you could have, you know, millions of dollars in 10 years to do it. But if you can only find, you know, an artist, it's still not going to happen, you're not having enough time or money in the world to do that. So you really have to find something that will work. And you have to make it work for again, your creative vision. So what's interesting is, I often get calls from people wanting consultation or just feedback. And they'll often ask me, how much is a 22 Minute TV show? Or how much does a feature cost? And that question is impossible to answer because you need to know all right, well, how many characters you know how long you know, what's the show about what's, what are the tools, what is the style? So every show is so incredibly different. There is no cookie cutter. So yeah, you're constantly trying to figure out for small what that triangle even is. And then once you have that triangle in place, keeping it together so it doesn't blow up on you. So that's a huge part of the job there. But then the cream part that you were mentioning is, you then get to work with the artists, you know, and the designs and you get to think up. Okay, now we know the script has these characters, what are they going to look like? What is their background? How are we going to color them? And how does that match with the background design? And from there? Okay, what's your animation style? And is it going to be like pop and lock animation is going to be fluid? Is it going to be CG 2d, stop motion? And from there, you talked about the music? Okay, what kind of music? Are we going to have? Is it going to be this style? Is it going to be orchestration? Or is it going to be hip hop is going to be all over? And then when it comes to casting to its, are you going to cast? Are we going to hire car kids to play kids? Are we going to hire adults. So all along the way, there's so many decisions, but all of it weighs into the business aspect of it, you know, we're coming together, but also the creative aspect of what will resonate with people, not just what will come together on the budget, and in the delivery. So yeah, there's so many different little parts. And they all, as I've said, kind of interweave all along the way. And what's amazing about TV that's different from features is that you're often working on multiple seasons at once. So you can be working on Season One. And you can be finishing that up in what we call post production. So you're finishing animating it finishing, editing, it finishing, trying to figure out how to get it out and promoted to the world while starting up a next season, which is okay, now what are these set of stories is going to be what is this world going to look like, it's gonna be the same or different. So you're constantly switching between hats in between, you know, inside of your brain as you go. So that's why we always laugh that there's never a dull moment, because it's like, you can be sitting talking about the new software, you're going to be in what the problems of that software are in one meeting. And you can cut to the next meeting, and you're launching your composure on what the next song will be. And you can cut to the next meeting, now you're recording an actor. And then you get to the next meeting, you're talking to your studio in Australia about the problems with their animation or line animation, you know, and how much pencil mileage you're giving them versus not in complexity. So we're changing. Now, hold on tight to your seat, because it's like, every day,

Julie Berman - Host:

but it's found out it's like, a fun roller coaster.

Pilar Flynn:

If you like all the posters, it's a perfect job for you.

Julie Berman - Host:

With that, because like you're, you're changing sort of, you know, between like left brain, right brain tasks, but you're also changing, like between teams you're talking to, and like, even where they're located or what have you. How do you keep all of that straight in your own mind? Or like how do you not get completely, you know, sort of overwhelmed by like, all the different facets and all the different pieces that are interwoven.

Pilar Flynn:

This is where I'm going to give a huge shout out to our production teams, because they rarely get to be they're very much the unsung heroes. And they're the ones that don't do any of the art. They're the ones that manage all these 1000s of puzzle pieces. And I'm so lucky that my team on moon girl is amazing. And I also had amazing team on Elena and a lot of other productions. But without them, none of that would come together. They're the ones that once you have your schedule and hand it off, they make it happen. They're the ones that flag issues. They're the ones that go to the artists and see what they need. They're the ones that schedule the meetings, take the notes, put the next schedules together, make sure you're on top of things remind you of, hey, remember, you had that email, do hear or flag when something's too complex. So they are your constant eyes and ears. And they're constantly behind the scenes. It's almost like stage management of a theater, right? Like everyone only sees the actors on stage, and don't realize that there's this whole slew of incredible talented people behind the scenes, turning on the lights, you know, running the show, and actually bringing it together. So yeah, huge kudos to production people. And yeah, like I say that that's an amazing job. You can start out at as either an assistant or production secretary, or production assistant, which we call PA, it's an entry level job. So if you're wondering if animation is something you'd love to do, and aren't an artist, that's a place I highly recommend starting in on because they're the ones that put all that together. And that can be a lot of fun, too.

Unknown:

Yeah. And I appreciate, like all that information and kind of it gives so much like context to everything. You know, it seems that there are so many people right behind the scenes, and especially with animation, I think the interesting thing to think about is we see the end product like as the as the viewer, but you forget that there's like huge amounts of people who are working behind the scenes, you know, to create what we're what we're seeing. So I'm curious

Pilar Flynn:

300 to 500 people on a feature when you see all those credits, it's usually about 500. In TV, we have about 150 people here and doing the day to day we have maybe 100 to 150 in Australia and they also send work to other partners studios. And then of course we have all are partners. So yeah, when all is said and done, easily 300 People have touched every episode you see on screen, sometimes 500 or more. And yeah, people don't realize that people tend to think there's an animation button that somebody hits. And, you know, it's just one person like making it all happen. It is a giant army of incredibly aligned people that bring it to screen. So it's not an easy thing. So when you see an animated show, you know, instead of immediately criticizing it take a moment to think about how hard it was to even make it happen. Make it come all the way to your screen. A lot.

Julie Berman - Host:

Yeah, I definitely will view it differently. Ambassador this. Yeah, it's, it's really a neat thing to be able to hear like the inside, you know, like from the inside, like, what happens to get it to where I can see it on Disney. And I want to ask you, you know, as as far as the the person who might be listening to this, or like someone who's listening, and they have a young daughter, or child or son, and they're interested in this type of career, how would you recommend for them to get started in learning about animation? And like, are there certain organizations? Are there certain places online, just if you have any tips, or feedback?

Pilar Flynn:

Absolutely. If you're not yet out of school, if you're just a student, I would say, well, first of all, watch as much animation as you can start educating yourself on the different styles, what you like what you don't like, there's so many amazing behind the scenes, documentaries nowadays, of how things are made. So if you see a show that you love, you know, check out of their extras, that's what my kids love to do. And then they love to ask me a million questions along the way of weight was that CG or stop motion or combined, or it's amazing how much more they know compared to you know what I would have known it their age, if you're in college, or even beyond that, and you're starting to think about it as a job. There's so many incredible organizations now that can educate you. There's women in animation is an amazing organization, if you are a woman, but you don't have to be a woman to join, you can be anybody. And they do incredible mixers, lectures, online zoom panels, etc. There's also Latinx. Animation, there's black and animated, there's animations, animations. Now, I think that's what they're called. And even beyond that, the union, the animation union holds a lot of lectures, if you're not a member, you can ask which ones you can go to versus not. But a lot of these organizations are free, and to become a member, you literally sign up, you send them an email. And again, you don't have to be of that ethnicity or gender to join. Anybody can. And just there alone, you can start learning the everything about the inside and who who does it. And from there, you can maybe meet someone or hear about someone that you're really curious about getting to know and you can reach out to them on LinkedIn or otherwise, and connect with them. I've had so many people connect and just want to do a coffee chat or ask questions or, or hey, can you come talk to my school about what it is you do? So the more of that you do, the more you educate yourself, the more it demystifies the job and then yeah, you'll very quickly see if it's something you'd want to do. And yeah, once you get a resume together and get someone to help you put that together, you have to find an internship or production assistant, we'll just start at the at the beginning. Or if you're an artist, of course, you can go to an art school and build a portfolio and go from there. Or even Instagram now honestly, so many people are hired just from Instagram alone, you don't even need it. It's crazy. So there are many, many different paths. If that's I won't say the goal, if that's the journey, you want to embark on their journey to get to your goal.

Julie Berman - Host:

And what do you think about like for people who are fresh out of school or just going through school at this moment? Are there? Do you think there are opportunities for people who are maybe looking for like another career, you know, like something different than maybe what they had before? And if so, do you have any tips or ideas for them? If they were interested in getting in?

Pilar Flynn:

Absolutely. It's it's really just about the passion. I've hired so many people that this is their second or third career, you know, when they suddenly realize it was something they wanted to do, or they weren't feeling fulfilled, but by what they were doing. And to me, especially and I know there's a lot of people like that out there. It doesn't matter that you just recently graduated from art school and you knew it's what you wanted to do since you were five years old, you know, like me, what matters is that you have the right perspective that you're passionate about it that you know why you want to do it, and you've got amazing skills to bring to the table and with all those many hundreds of jobs, chances are you have some great skills to bring to the table. So it's refining what it is you're really good at and then finding a way to pitch yourself passionately. And yeah, that's the best. So again, these networkers is the place to do that you can meet people and say, even in 30 seconds, this is who I am is what I'm passionate about this what I'm looking for. Do you have any advice or do you have any leads? And as I say, I myself have hired several People that way that I just like fell in love with instantly and for that reason alone you know we gave them the job they often turn out to be the best hires because they're the ones that feel that gratitude and know that it took them a while longer to get there but now that they're there they're going to hang on tight