LA-Pharmacist Turned Calligrapher Starts Business to Pay Off Debt and Leads to New Career, with Rosie Chhun of Wander Crafter

Rosie Chhun, an LA-based calligrapher and owner of Wander Crafter, has collaborated with luxury brands (such as Jay-Z, Netflix, Neiman Marcus, and Nordstrom’s) in addition to small organizations and individuals.  After truly defining her niche in 2020 ( engraving luxury perfume bottles and high-end lipsticks), she plans to make this her full-time career in 2021.  

Rosie first turned to calligraphy and engraving to get through pharmacy school (even making beautiful notecards with calligraphy to practice drug names.) She started Wander Crafter with her sister to pay off six-figure debt after graduating and becoming a pharmacist in a retail environment.  Rosie has more than 10 years experience in pharmacy-related roles and has loved it, but the more experience she gained creating memories through calligraphy and engraving, the more she realized that this is her true passion.  While being a pharmacist and calligrapher may sound like polar opposites on the career spectrum, Rosie's past skills and experiences are what contribute to her becoming a skilled and talented calligrapher. 

Contact Info:
Rosie Chhun
https://wandercrafter.com/ 
@wandercrafter (Instagram)

Julie Berman - Host
www.womenwithcooljobs.com
@womencooljobs (Instagram)

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Transcript

Rosie Chhun: 0:00

just practicing your craft, you kind of figure out what your secret sauce is and really just putting out into the world what you love. I think success comes from that people will see that you love what you're doing. And they want to be a part of that. They want to be a part of your your art, your experiences. And you know, if I can make a career out of nice handwriting, I don't see why you can't make a career out of like baking or, you know, a podcast.

Julie- Host: 0:33

Hey, everybody, I'm Julie and welcome to women with cool jobs. Each episode will feature women with unique trailblazing and innovative crews. We'll talk about how she got here, what life is like now, and actionable steps that you can take to go on a similar path, or one that's all your own. This podcast is about empowering you. It's about empowering you to dream big and to be inspired. You'll hear from incredible women in a wide variety of fields, and hopefully some that you've never heard of before. Women who build robots and roadways, firefighters, C suite professional surrounded by men, social media mavens, entrepreneurs, and more. I'm so glad we get to go on this journey together. Hello, this is Julie and welcome to women with cool jobs. Happy Happy 2021. I'm so excited for this new year and for all of the possibilities and opportunities that it holds for us as women as individuals. I am ready for it. I'm excited. So I want to tell you if you haven't signed up yet for women with cool jobs membership, please head over to my website. It's www dot women with cool jobs comm slash membership. Go check it out. I want to introduce now a really awesome new guest for January and her name is Rosie Chen. She is a pharmacist by day and she does in all of her extra time. She's very dedicated to her wander craft her business because she is a calligrapher and engraver. So she started this business because she went to school to be a pharmacist. And she had over six figures of debt when she came out of school. And she had a start something so she could start to pay off her debt. So she dabbled in this when she was in school. But then she decided that she would take it to the next level, she started to fall in love with this calligraphy and engraving process. And she wants to take it to the next level in 2021. And actually go for it full time. Because she's had so much success doing it part time. And so she had a lot of challenges in 2020 with the pandemic and everything. But she also had a lot of opportunities, she narrowed down her niche. And she's really able to figure out what she wants to focus on how she wants to pursue business for this new year. And I'm so excited for her. One of the things that I thought was super intriguing when I wanted to interview her for this podcast was the fact that her jobs as a pharmacist and calligrapher to me could not be different if you're looking from a high level. But then as we got into the conversation, I was super surprised to find that I actually found a lot of similarities between her skill set as a pharmacist, and how she would very likely transfer those skills into calligraphy. So things like being super detail oriented, super careful, super particular with how she does things. I feel like those overlap. And I found it really fascinating. The other thing that I wanted to point out is the idea of her going from a truly traditional and very well respected career path of being a pharmacist to doing something that is super creative super untraditional of being a calligrapher and engraver. And I think it's so cool that she's actually taking what she's done in the past. And she's using a whole bunch of those skills, and weaving them into what she's now going to be doing in the near future and then building her business to, you know, a really cool thing in the future to support her full time. And I wanted to point this out because I feel like 2021 is a year of change, partially because in 2020 we had a whole lot of chaos. We had a whole lot of upheaval, much of which are all of which some may argue was not under our control and was very much out of our control. Whereas 2021 I think Feel like with the direction that things are going, hopefully, because we have a vaccination insight, what have you that we are going to start to be able to make our own choices and our own decisions based on what truly matters. And I'm based out of Phoenix, right. So I think that that phoenix rising and recreating itself from the ashes every once in a while, because that's just you know, where I've lived in it comes to mind. And so I really think about that for this year, about how we are recreating our world work recreating the norms and the day to day ins and outs, we're recreating our personal lives and our careers. And I feel like this year in particular, there are so much opportunity to recreate or to create from the beginning, some really cool new possibilities and opportunities for ourselves. And Rosie has chosen to run full throttle into this really cool new career that she's so passionate about. And I find that amazing, because she is she's really empowered by it, because you know, she loved the pharmacy path. And now she's taking those skills, and she's using it to do her new path of calligraphy, and bringing this really beautiful and artistic work creating memories for people as special times in their lives. And it's super cool. And I'm excited for you guys to hear this interview. Because there's just so many different facets that are really good things for us to consider and think about going into this new year into 2021. Happy 2021. Thank you for listening. Hello, Rosie. So today, I'm so excited to have you on, you have a really interesting business that I'm excited to learn more about. So you are a pharmacist by day, and you are a calligrapher by night, which I find so fascinating how you actually got into your calligraphy business. And I know you were in it with your sister as well. So first of all, thank you for being here. Of course, thank you for having me. It's

Unknown: 7:16

so exciting.

Julie- Host: 7:17

Yes, it's my pleasure. So I want to give a little bit of background before we really get going. But your full name is Rosie Chen, and you started your business wander crafter as a side hustle to pay off a whole lot of student loans. And I know from our you know, our previous chat that you are almost at the end of that. So congratulations, that is no small feat to pay off student loans.

Unknown: 7:43

Thank you so much. It's been quite the journey, but it's very rewarding. And so we're gonna

Julie- Host: 7:48

hear all about it. I'm really excited. So what you do for your calligraphy business, which is what we're really going to focus on here today is that you have collaborations with luxury brands. And you've worked with people like JC with Netflix with Neiman Marcus, Nordstrom, and a whole bunch of, of course, smaller organizations and people along the way. And you really found that your true passion was this calligraphy and engraving business that you took from a side hustle, and you're trying to create it in 2021 into your full time business, instead of doing what you went to school for, which is being a pharmacist. So I loved this and it really intrigued me your whole story. Because it's you know, pharmacy is such a respectable career, but it's something that is typically probably very traditional, and what people think of versus starting a calligraphy based business, and especially really ramping it up in 2020. Like that is that is gutsy for sure. And, you know, shifting to that, and finding something that you're really, really passionate about, and very different from what you're doing as a pharmacist. So I'm really excited to to get into this with you and to learn about First of all, how you got into it, why you fell in love with it, you know, and then to share with people if they want to know more. So let's start at the beginning. First of all, how would you describe your job?

Unknown: 9:19

So the calligraphy business that I've started is more of a luxury based business that creates an experience for people as far as adding a more personality and positive experience into just simple words, you know, words tells a story on itself. But if you can turn those words into art, it's an experience that people will never forget. And it's something that they can keep in their living room or you know, it's you know, it starts off as a simple bottle of champagne. But you put some some words that commemorates an event or an experience in your life like Buying a house, and you can keep this bottle forever, you know, 10 years down the line, you'll see that bottle, even if you drink it, you can bottle and you'll still remember that that moment that you bought your first house or you had your first child, you know, it's it's those experiences in your life that is unforgettable. And it's it's something that I've been able to help other people kind of commemorate. And it's really an honor.

Julie- Host: 10:26

Yeah, that's amazing. And I, you know, I've looked at some of the work that you've done with your pictures, and I don't my self, I personally don't buy like a lot of high end, especially perfumes and stuff. But I wouldn't have known that, that the bottles didn't come like that, you know, until me and the work itself is just like really elegant. And just so beautiful. And so that's why I thought like it looked like it came with it, even though you added it, but it was just and it's nice that you can really make it special for someone and i think it's it's those special events, you know, it's not so much the item, but it's making it connects with those special events. You've got that memory around it. I think that's really cool. Yeah, it's

Unknown: 11:11

funny that you say that just because the first time I started doing like the floral engravings and stuff on site at Nordstrom, and when it brought back the bottle, they were like, did you do that? Or did that company do that? Like I did that like 10 minutes ago I could have sworn you're walking by when I was doing it.

Julie- Host: 11:28

Yeah, that's awesome. It that speaks right to your level of skill. And you know, and why you're you're really pushing this this business venture of yours in such a different direction. So with you know, with that said, I definitely I want to get more into what you do now. But before we do that, I always love to take a look back kind of at how you started in this in this position with this new you know, venture that you're doing with wander crafter, so I would love for you to tell us how did you get started in calligraphy and engraving? Yeah, so

Unknown: 12:06

the journey kind of started when I was in pharmacy school, I started in 2013. And it really just started just because I needed something to distract myself from school, something that was more fun and more creative than just memorizing drug names and mechanisms and stuff and don't get me wrong pharmacy. I love pharmacy obviously, I wouldn't have gotten into it if it wasn't my passion back then. And as as amazing as that was, you know, memorizing stuff for eight hours a day, it gets old really quick. So when you have a pen and paper in front of you and you can just draw and write and you know, just make something pretty you know, even writing out drug names in calligraphy makes things so much more interesting.

Julie- Host: 12:51

I love that. I can imagine they would be much nicer to look at

Unknown: 12:56

Yeah, I had these like super cheesy flashcards I had like drug names on it really pretty. And then like the mechanism of action in the back of it and everything else that I had to memorize. So it made things a lot more fun. And they kind of gave me an excuse to buy stationery and pens that I didn't really need. So it kind of just kept growing throughout pharmacy school. And then after I graduated, I realized how much loans I had. And I tried to ignore it, as most people do thinking like, Okay, once I get a real pharmacists job, I'll be able to pay it off in no time. And then I started making payments on the loans and my interest rate I think was at like 6.5% at one point. So putting in $1,000 a month on something that's accruing $2,000 of interest every month was just impossible. It is impossible. So I was like, Okay, I need something that's going to help me really bump up my payments and I can start to retire and actually live life and you know, buy the things that I want in start saving for retirement, you know, so everyone just kept telling me like you need to monetize this you need to start making money. I don't know how to do this. So I started looking at YouTube started looking at Instagram and just figuring out how other people were making revenue from it and just figured it out one by one year by year and I started wonder crafter with my sister just because she was actually not working as well and then she just had a baby. So both of us were like okay, we both need money. So let's make this a side income for the both of us and she wanted to stay at home so she she really wanted to make items at home so she was very hands on she was like the queen of DIY. So we decided to do this DIY thing with an integrate calligraphy into it. And we started off making like cake toppers and just little cute signs, banners and stuff for the baby, you know, just so that we could have some decorations and we put on Etsy and You know, like the paper turned out, you know, it was cute, but I didn't feel like it was enough. I don't feel like it was good quality enough for someone to keep for life. So we, in 2019 was when we started to invest in the glowforge, which is a laser cutter, which you can also engrave with as well. And we switched over to wood and acrylic, and our quality of products just increased from there. And I felt like our business started to really take off. And then yeah, it just started to increase. And starting in 2020 was when I wanted to start learning engraving. So I started I took an engraving class with Carla Hagen, who is like pretty legendary in the engraving calligraphy world. And, you know, we we connected right away, we talked about, like, you know, different ways to partner and different ways to really increase our offerings together. And I started to feel like I enjoyed the service based industry more than I did do the physical items with as compared to my sister. And so we kind of ended up parting ways. In 2020, I think I just started to feel like I wasn't, I was getting more stressed out with doing the physical stuff. Okay, I felt like I was driving back and forth between, you know, different warehouses and suppliers and stuff. And I was getting more stressed out doing that than I was doing the services. So I think in, I want to say September of 2020, was when we decided to kind of split ways. And I still help her do the promotions and stuff and the website management at the management. So I do more of the digital side of that, while she actually does the physical production side. And I'm focusing more on the engraving and service based industry. And that's really when it started to take off because I felt like I was really doing what I loved. And I just enjoyed making, you know, just adding adornments, to liquor bottles of wine bottles, and doing these engraving services in front of the clients. I felt like I was really thriving, because I was showing them what my skills were about. And I was showing the clients how we can bring their Christmas presents to another level. And it was just it was so much more fun. And I loved it so much more. So that's kind of where we're at now.

Julie- Host: 17:24

Yeah, that's great. And so when did you guys start the business together? It was that 2018?

Unknown: 17:29

I want to say it was 2018.

Julie- Host: 17:30

Okay, yeah. So it's still pretty young business, and still a lot of change within within that short time. And then of course, I know with the pandemic hitting, that's, you know, requires change in and of itself. So yeah, but that was a great overview. So thank you for that I would love to talk about now, just your, I guess your thoughts, I have a quote from you, which I would love to share. And you said that you've had 16 classes, three events, and two jobs cancelled throughout the year, but that it also opened up as many opportunities as well. So I would love to hear, you know, especially because you were you were already sort of going down this path. And then what were those things that were really blessings this year? And what were those things that were the challenges, and then we're gonna get into even what you're doing for 2021, which I'm really excited for you about that and all the potential So, but just if you could give us an overview of kind of how this last year was, because you are you are an entrepreneur, you're trying to build a business, and it's very different than your skill set in the pharmacy world as a pharmacist. So I would I would love to hear about your journey, you know, in this in this creative landscape. Yeah,

Unknown: 18:55

so in January 2021. Not only did we do, or did I do the engraving class with Karla but another company called sippin script actually reached out to me there they are a company that is kind of like a plant, plant, night paint night type of deal where they go to restaurants and stuff and do like an hour and a half of a calligraphy class. And one of my goals for 2020 was to teach a calligraphy class but I had no idea where to start. So when they reached out to me, I immediately like loved their energy, love their vibe, and they really taught me how to teach a calligraphy class and they have an amazing squad. So if you want to like take a calligraphy class, they have it throughout all of North America now which is amazing. So you're basically going to like a bar or restaurant and you're, you know, eating and drinking and learning calligraphy. So it's a really fun like night out. It's super duper fun. They have online classes right now just because of the pandemic but you know, there's still a lot of like physical classes going on. I like went in full force after I joined in and I think it was in April was one I actually had a bulk of my classes planned out. So I had 12 classes in April. Not only that, but I was hired on to do like, kind of like a Coachella like festival type of deal where I would go in, right on champagne flutes, and you know, create that experience for all the guests. And of course, that got canceled. And then I was hired on by Makeup Forever to do some engraving for lipsticks, because they're metal, and then that got cancelled. So it was just like, you know, we had such high hopes for the year and things just didn't go as planned, which is fine. I think as an entrepreneur, you kind of have to figure out how to shift your business and still create that experience from a remote location. So when that happened, I was I kind of went into a shell, you know, especially working in the pharmacy, things got pretty crazy, as far as you know, because we never shut down in the pharmacy, we kept going, we had people who tested positive in the pharmacy, and we had to shift our businesses that way as well. So we ended up just doing like drive thru only or, you know, we had extra staff, we had limited hours. So there were ways that I kind of had to shift my attention in the pharmacy realm just because like my manager was out my half my staff was out. And I had to pretty much run the pharmacy by myself and figure it out that way. So it took me a couple months to kind of adjust and really think about what my business was about. And then kind of, you know, got used to the workflow got us to the pandemic, and then started really evaluating my business and kind of shifting that way. So starting in September, our sales actually started to increase again, I think with just the holidays and stuff. And then I started to shift my Instagram and my my mailing list and stuff more towards the engraving services. So you can kind of you can see in my Instagram feed where I made that shift. So it started off as like, yeah, it was like it had like large signs, and we were doing ornaments. And there was just so many things that we were offering. And I felt like it was very confusing, not only for our business model, but for the customers as well. So they were kind of like, you know, when you're starting to offer multiple things in the business, like, you know, we have signs, we have ingredients, and we have cutting boards we have, you know, there's just so many things, you know, the customer gets really confused. So when I started to shift everything over was when my clients and my followers started to really understand what I was about. And they understood what my where my skill set was particularly. And I still have some people who have been following me for years, who want to do more like laser cut stuff, and so I'll just refer them to my sister. So we still kind of do all of that is just with wonder crafter, we're kind of switching over her switching gears to more of a service space industry. So that like people can actually just drop off stuff. Like we have, like $300 bottles of champagnes getting dropped off on our doorstep, and we're craving it.

Julie- Host: 23:06

That's a pretty awesome thing to just have pop up on your doorstep makes you guys you can't drink it.

Unknown: 23:13

Like oh my god, I'm scared. This is this is really expensive.

Julie- Host: 23:17

You have to be careful. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So

Unknown: 23:21

then not only do our customers kind of know what we do now and where our specialties are. But we're also attracting newer clients who have a higher I think they just want I don't know how to describe it, like a higher income base population. So

Julie- Host: 23:40

like, maybe they're different, a different group based on like, what they're having you do with the projects or the the engraving like is it? Is it larger projects, or they're just in a higher income bracket,

Unknown: 23:52

I think just in a higher income bracket or like luxury items, luxury products now.

Julie- Host: 23:57

Okay, so it's it's more like you're tapping into new audience. Exactly. People. Yeah. Who has a higher income bracket?

Unknown: 24:05

Exactly. Okay.

Julie- Host: 24:06

Yeah, that's fantastic. And that happened just recently.

Unknown: 24:10

Mm hmm. Yeah. When I started to switch everything over, I think the Tiffany bottles, there's one particular reel on Instagram that I posted, and it went viral. And ever since that post, I was like, Okay, now I know what my audience wants. Now, I know what I like to do. So that's when I started to shift everything over. And we attract new clients. We have celebrity clients now, which is amazing. Yeah. So once you really figure out what you want to do what you want to hone in on that's really when your audience starts to they come to you and like they know what your specialty is. So

Julie- Host: 24:45

yeah, and I think that's really interesting that you know, you hear about like, niche down, use down, knees down, or you know, find your find your people but like you need to focus on one particular thing, not providing services for everyone. But you've actually literally within the year of 2020, you've embodied that with your business of really getting your niche and focusing on it. And then Luckily, it happens to be what you love to do. Yeah. And that attracting more people to find you. And then yeah, getting like celebrities to find you too. Like, that sounds like a fun little bonus.

Unknown: 25:23

Yeah. And yeah, that whole, that growing phase is, is actually really valuable, right. So even if you're starting from scratch, and you don't know what you want to do, you can offer 10 million things and kind of figure out where you want to go. And that growing phase is probably the most important portion of your business. Because that, that growing pain is really what gives you the experience and gives you the drive, and you have to make those mistakes, because if you don't make those mistakes, then you're not going to know where to go from there.

Julie- Host: 25:53

Yeah. And, and, you know, even with me, I can only speak for myself, but even with the podcast, man, have I made a lot of mistakes. Yeah, sure. Luckily, I've done a lot of things right to, because I do a lot of research, you know, it sounds like you obviously know how to do research too. But it's, it's, you know, it's your sort of like do something, you get the feedback and you know, whether good or bad, you make a shift, and then you do something else, get feedback, make a shift, you know, or keep doing it if it if it went really well. But yeah, and you know, what I want to say to you, because I feel like you You somewhat glazed over it. And but I want to go back to because I feel like it was such a valid point. And, you know, I want to give you like really big props, because I think because of your job as a pharmacist, you know, your day job, and then all that was going on there and you having to make so many major changes because of what was happening, you know, in, in your community and then on a broader, you know, on a broader level, the world managing that level of responsibility. And, and I'm sure just like living with that every day, you know, and being in the community that had to be super stressful. So I just want to commend you for that. Because you're you're doing everyone a cert like a huge service. And I'm even now right the same, the same thing goes except unfortunately now we're a little bit more used to it, which is crazy to say, in a way, right? It's crazy to say that nine months in we're kind of used to it, but but I wanted to mention that because I don't think that's anything to glaze over. And I think you know, the fact that you still were able to do your job and do it well as a pharmacist and then to go figure out your you know, your business stuff with wander crafter, and then continue to change and see where you can shift and and you know, niche down essentially like that's really awesome. I mean, that speaks volumes to me. So highly. Thank you. Yeah, you're welcome. I just wanted to give credit where credit was due before we before we move on. But so you know now I feel like I would love to hear about some of the details that you do actually kind of what are the main responsibilities of your job as a calligrapher and engraver?

Unknown: 28:15

Yeah. So as a calligrapher and engraver, I want to embody what the client wants, whether it is a celebration, or you know, like a wedding anniversary, or whatever event, whatever life event that you want to capture, I want to make sure that I'm accepting all of that I'm taking in all of the experiences and the good and the bad feels from whatever happened or whatever event that I'm trying to embody. So I want to be able to talk to my client and really understand what they are trying to integrate into this project. So for example, I had a client who actually took a calligraphy class with me back before the pandemic hit, and she purchased a home and she wanted to engrave four bottles of Dom Perignon probably saying that wrong, but

Julie- Host: 29:07

I know what you mean. I

Unknown: 29:10

said it like a million times. And I still don't know if I'm saying it, right. Yeah.

Julie- Host: 29:13

Well, the champagne Yeah, we all know, comparing you Yeah, yeah. That's how I would say it too. So you're good. Perfect.

Unknown: 29:21

So she's actually purchasing her home and she wanted to engrave four bottles of champagne for herself, her lender or mortgage person. And we talked on the phone for maybe like 30 minutes or something, just figuring out what kind of phrase we want to put onto each bottle just because every single bottle is going to someone who worked really hard to help her get to her goal. And I want to make sure that those bottles when they receive it, they are not only blown away by the art but by the message as well. Because every single message and gift it really does mean that much just for the client and for the person giving For the client and the receiver, so for me, I want to make sure that I'm embodying all of that. And just making sure that everyone has such a positive experience, whether it's my client opening the bottle for the first time, or for the receiver who's opening it. And it's like, so Mind blown. So to me, that's, that's exactly what my job is about. And I love that even though I don't always get to see their reactions. I know that they're enjoying it.

Julie- Host: 30:26

Yeah, well, that's such a cool idea. Honestly, I would have never thought about doing such a thing. But it's also because I don't think I've ever heard of anyone engraving a bottle of champagne. So that's really awesome. And yeah, and buying houses is a huge deal for so many reasons. And it's not easy. So I can see why she would want to thank people with that special gift. And so I want to get into, like, what are the tools that you use typically, for your job? Yeah, so

Unknown: 30:57

with engraving, I actually really enjoy it a lot more than doing like actual pen and paper calligraphy, just because you can actually draft everything out ahead of time and make sure you're spelling it right, make sure the layout is perfect. So to me, it's actually easier to do the engraving. So I have like my ruler, obviously, I have it's called a stability pencil, which is a wax pencil that you can actually use to draft everything out. So and it comes off really easily. And it works for metal, glass and plastics as well. So it's a really good tool to use for someone who's drafting and then I'll use my micro engraver, it's actually called the mestiza. Two, it's actually I think it's a nail filing tool. You know how you know those tools when you go to the the nail salon and you're trying to remove like the like the acrylic. Yeah, the acrylic like, yeah, the acrylic like covering on your nails. Yeah, they'll they'll fall off the top of the nail to get rid of like the shiny part. And then they put the, you know, the nail polish remover on. Yeah. So that's the tool that I actually use. So it goes up to like 35,000 rates per minute. And depending on the material that you're using, you can use a higher RPM, or you can go on a lower one like for plastics, I'll go down to like 10,000 RPM, just because you end up melting the plastic if it's going too fast. But for glass, you can do like 35,000. And then after that after everything's like engraved, you can make it really pop. So there's something called rubbin buff, which is another wax element, but it has like a shiny material into it. And that actually grabs on to anything that's matte material. So after you've engraved it, there's kind of like rough underlying area. You fill that in, and then it really makes the design pop.

Julie- Host: 32:48

That's awesome. Yeah. And Is that how you get the shiny elements? Okay. Yeah, I mean that in your pictures that yeah, it's so cool. Yeah, and I love that you make it sounds so simple, but I'm imagining that my version of whatever I would it would look like my two year old did it. I don't even know that like a five year old. Could you make it sound so easy. But first of all, my handwriting is not the best anymore. But yeah, but then I feel like on a surface, it would get so much more stressful. So whereas your things are so elegant and graceful, and just so nice. So it's a lot of practice. Yeah, right. Yeah. Because you've been doing it sounds like really since 2013. Is that is that right? Like so seven years?

Unknown: 33:36

He was I guess yet since 2013. But the engraving I didn't actually learn until January 2020. Right. So it's really been Yeah,

Julie- Host: 33:46

that's impressive. natural talent, because my Yeah, my no one would want to purchase or even see.

Unknown: 33:54

Well, I'm hoping to do an engraving class sometime in 2021. So I'll have you on there.

Julie- Host: 33:59

Yeah. There you go. I know. I do. I do love making things pretty in arts and crafts and stuff. So you never know. I can I know. Exactly.

Unknown: 34:12

Exactly. And there's so much that you can engrave throughout the house. Like when I first started, I was like, okay, so there's like wine glasses. There's cups, there's like mugs, literally anything I could get my hands on. It just started practicing I empty wine bottles. And I was like, Oh, you can't throw this away. You have to let me engrave it, then you can recycle it.

Julie- Host: 34:30

That's smart. That's good practice. Exactly. Yeah. So tell us a little bit more. What are the things that you that you typically engrave or that you love to engrave? I know one thing you mentioned was you did the Tiffany perfume bottles and people loved that. Is that like your favorite during those perfume bottles or what else do you usually love to engrave? Yeah, I

Unknown: 34:52

think my favorite right now is the perfume bottles just because like a lot of the higher end companies like like Marc Jacobs and Chanel and all of them, they, they have like, they put so much design into each of their bottles. And every single bottle has like a different consistency and a different coating. So part of the fun for me is figuring out what I can and can't engrave and how I can add to their designs and really create a piece that someone can take home and keep forever Even if the bottle is empty. So it ends up becoming like an art piece, like a bookshelf or something like that. So

Julie- Host: 35:29

yeah, it's Yeah, you're creating a piece of art almost even for when it's done. It reminds me of my grandma. I don't know if you've seen these but like, I think, I don't know if people still have them. I don't wear perfumes so I don't but my grandma had this beautiful mirrored tray, and she had these gorgeous crystal glass perfume containers. And so I feel like it would go perfectly like one of your engraved things. So just go perfectly like next to that. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, but it's like the idea of like keeping it as a piece of art. Yeah, so that's so cool. And then is there anything else that you that you do engraved that you enjoy engraving, besides the perfume bottles? Hmm. or anything? Yeah,

Unknown: 36:16

I think it's been started to become my thing. I think just because there's so much like surface area you can kind of play with and you can play with like different designs. Like there was one bottle, the Chanel bottle that I engraved, it has Mary in gold, and then floral in just like white engraving. And as you layer the design, it really makes it pop even more. So for me, that's part of the fun. I think another one that I love engraving is metal lipsticks. And the those are like the high end lipsticks like Chanel, Tom Ford, and YSL. So metal, for me, for the longest time was really, really hard. It was one of those surfaces that are just so slippery. And if you don't have good control of your tool, and you push too hard on it, it ends up running away just because metal is so slippery and so hard. Like it's really hard to kind of like break through it. But it took a lot of practice for me to get comfortable with that as well. And for the longest time, I was like, I can't do metal, I can't do metal. And then I was like, Okay, I see metal scissors I see, you know, like anything that's metal around the house. I was like, okay, sorry, you're gonna have to get engraved. It's so funny. But it really wasn't until I think maybe October, like literally two months ago where I was like, Okay, I can't be afraid of this material anymore. I have to do it. And so now it's actually started to become one of my favorite materials to engrave. Very cool.

Julie- Host: 37:45

Yeah. So was your boyfriend telling you certain things? Were off limits? Don't engrave them?

Unknown: 37:50

No. No, he understands the craft. So he's, he's more than willing to like, random.

Julie- Host: 37:59

supportive. That's awesome. Sounds like you found a nice day. Yeah. Very cool. Well, that's fantastic. Yeah, and, and, you know, I would have never thought about because I don't know anything about engraving, but I would have never thought about the metal part being slim, more slippery than glass. So that's really interesting to just knowing how different things feel with the tools and then using it. So I do want to go a little bit and talk about, you know, your day job as a pharmacist, and then talk a little bit about, you know, your your job as, as a person in the arts, you know, doing this calligraphy and engraving. And I want to mention this, because it was super intriguing to me the fact that they're almost, they're so diverse, like, I feel like they're one at you know, one from the other. Whereas for pharmacy, I don't know too much about it. But I can imagine that you're using a lot of science and math. And your other business is just very freeform and creative. So I want to get from you like what are the differences between those two positions to you? And why are you so attracted to this new career? What what really draws you to it?

Unknown: 39:20

Mm hmm. That's a really good question. I think with pharmacy, I still really love like, I've always been a science person with pharmacy, I had to get my undergrad degree, which was in biochem. And then I took two years off to kind of work as a technician and you know, get really familiar with the industry and then started pharmacy school. I was an intern there and then graduated and all that so I ended up working in retail and pharmacy is definitely very different from calligraphy and kind of just how you mentioned it's more science based. It's more it's more focused on helping people become better with medications. Sometimes, I don't know, I don't know if it's me just being jaded with the industry, but I do feel like there's a lot of people who use medications as a band aid to, you know, instead of working out or eating better, or just changing life habits, they would rather take medications for it. Yeah. So oftentimes, just because I don't see my patients too often, I see like, I see them once a month, when they're picking up their refills, and they're not always willing to talk about their lifestyle changes, there are a handful of people who do take the time to talk to me and and want to like value my opinion, and really are trying to make changes to have a better life. But for the most part, people are just kind of focused on getting the refills and then kind of continuing on their daily lives. And that's not the worst thing I understand, you know, if you're 5060 years old, you've been doing this habit and eating like this, and you know, you're a teenager, and that's not something that a pharmacist can change your mind on in two minutes. You know, so some, oftentimes, I do get jaded because of that, just because I am passionate about helping people change their lifestyle, especially, you know, before it gets too late. Because with hypertension, you know, people you can't feel hypertension, you can't feel your blood pressure too high, you know, and when your blood pressure is high for a really long time, for years, decades, even, that's when your heart can start to fail, and your kidneys can fail and your liver can fail. And it just it becomes a snowball. And, you know, we had people interviewed, meaning those lifestyle changes from the very beginning, we could have prevented that whole thing, you know, and that was something that I focused on when I was in pharmacy school, that was one of my projects was heart failure. And that's something that I'm, like, passionate about. And so every time I'd have someone picking up a refill, I tried to make those changes and you know, kind of talk about their lifestyle changes, but not everyone wants to talk about that. And then there are some people who don't really value the pharmacists experience or opinion, either, you know, they think it's, oh, it's a conversation between me and my doctor. But it's a conversation that we all have to have with that person, you know, we have to we have everyone is kind of getting them to see it from a different angle. Right. Oh, and and sometimes the doctors don't have time to talk about those lifestyle changes and make those interventions. And so as a pharmacist, I try to do that. But not everyone is willing to talk to us about that either. So I think, yeah, it's it. I think after a couple of years of kind of getting that kind of treatment, you kind of get jaded about the industry. And for me, I'm a people pleaser, I, I want to make sure that everyone is getting the help that they deserve, and that they need. But if there's someone who doesn't want to talk to me about that, or you know, kind of gives me the cold shoulder of like, Okay, well, yeah, yeah. So

Julie- Host: 43:13

well, and especially because you are so knowledgeable. When did you start your journey to be a pharmacist

Unknown: 43:19

in 2009?

Julie- Host: 43:20

Wow. So yeah, and it's 2021. And here you are. So you've been in this business, you know, for a long time. And, and not only just to get here, but you did all the steps before, you know, to even do the kind of like the research part of getting into the business, and then going through all the steps. So and I could see like, I haven't ever thought of it from that perspective of the pharmacist. And ironically, I know someone I've a friend of a friend who, who is a pharmacist, and it would be interesting to talk to them after two because I you know, it's like you pick up your medicine and you ask a few questions. Or if you're taking something else, you might say, okay, is this safe? But yeah, I don't know that we often, at least for me, I don't know that I often think about getting into like a higher level conversation. But when you say that it makes so much sense. Because Yeah, obviously you would bring so much more knowledge in a particular area that would complement maybe what my, my doctor or whoever else could bring to the table as well. Yeah, I

Unknown: 44:25

mean, oddly enough, not that. I mean, I think it's normal, but like not that many people know what a pharmacist can or cannot do? Yeah, even when I started dating my boyfriend. He was he didn't even know that pharmacists could give vaccinations.

Julie- Host: 44:41

Okay, so give us a brief rundown for those of us who are not aware, like, you know, a one minute rundown. What are the things you can and can't do as a pharmacist? Well, this is a little aside, but that's okay, because we're all good.

Unknown: 44:53

Yeah. So as a pharmacist, we get the prescriptions from the doctors, we make sure that whatever we enter is correct, make sure that we look at their profile as well make sure there's no drug interactions, make sure it's an appropriate dose for what you're treating. And then just making sure that they're taking it correctly. So if you know if you have to take it with or without food, or in the morning versus evening, and kind of explain the reasons why for that, we can also give vaccinations depending on what state you're in, every state kind of has a different prescriptive authority. So we can give all kinds of vaccinations like pneumonia, your tetanus shot, your flu, shot, shingles, all of that. And then coming very soon, we'll be able to do the COVID vaccines. So and then we also do like COVID testing in the pharmacy as well, which is kind of new for 2020, obviously. Yeah. So that's also been an adjustment. What else and then we can some states in some stores, you can actually prescribe Naloxone for like overdoses for narcotics or opioids, some birth controls, and then some nicotine prescriptions as well, depending on what state you're in. Okay.

Julie- Host: 46:04

Yeah. Interesting. Thank you for that very quick overview.

Unknown: 46:07

That's my pleasure I

Julie- Host: 46:08

got a little a little bit into it is to be a pharmacist. And so I want to go now to you know, your shift into being calligrapher and engraver. Because when you talk and just knowing what I know about pharmacy, which is very little, and being a pharmacist, but I imagine that you have to be extremely careful, and extremely precise, and extremely focused. And I feel like those are traits that are very handy for doing calligraphy and engraving. So I will, let's see, do you agree with me, first of all, yeah, Lily, I

Unknown: 46:47

think that's a good point. So in retail, I'm sure I don't know if you've ever been to a retail pharmacy. But when you look in the window, the pharmacists are everything, like they wear so many hats, they are, you know, they can input the prescription, they have to verify the prescription, make sure it's correct, we run to the cashier, we go back to Phil, we do stock checks. And you know, we're running around everywhere doing everything. And for the longest time, actually just having to get used to that workflow and wearing so many hats all the time. I think that is very beneficial to be an entrepreneur, because as an entrepreneur, you're wearing multiple hats, right? You're wearing the you're the artist, you're the marketing, your HR, your

Julie- Host: 47:34

tech tech.

Unknown: 47:34

Exactly, you're the accounting person. So I think just being able to multitask and wears that many hats, I think has provided really good training to be an entrepreneur, and like really run the business. And I think, I don't know if it's, I don't know if this, like entrepreneur spirit is something that's that innate. For me. I think working at a pharmacy and really getting and building that work ethic, I think has really helped me build my business as well. Because if I can work that hard for a pharmacy for someone else, then I sure as hell can work that hard for my own business. Yeah. And make it as successful as well.

Julie- Host: 48:14

Yeah. And I, you know, it's interesting, because I'm just talking to At first I was like, oh, it seems like they really are so far apart, like the 180. But the more that we talk, the more interesting it is that I find it they're definitely things that if not, I feel like similar skills are really complementary skills, that you know, I could see how even though from from the surface, it looks completely different, that yet you are doing this creative thing because you have the skills or you learned those skills in a different job. So that's really cool. And I think one of the things that I, I really want to focus on this year going forward in 2021. And I think you really embody that, which is why I thought it was so cool, that you reached out to me that I could have you on is the whole idea of you know, we are having to make so many pivots and so many changes in this current year in 2020. And I'm sure we're gonna have to make more in 2021. Although I'm very hopeful, I'm so hopeful that it's going to be way more awesome. So I'm gonna go with that. But with that being said, I you still know that there's going to be many changes that we are all going to have to make in some capacity or another within our careers within our home lives. And I think this is what you've demonstrated is a really cool way to take the skills that you had and then have this side business and then now in 2021, you know, try to build a completely new career for yourself doing something very different than what you've done and also what you were trained to do for for over a decade, but that also having that people say hutzpah, but basically you know having that ability to be like, I'm going to go for this, I'm going to see what happens, despite the fact that these are crazy times, I think it's just so cool. And in fact, like, I've decided for myself, that and people, you guys all can tell me if you agree with us or not, but I feel like 2020 had so many changes happening, that why not make more big changes, because at least we can choose these we can choose what we're passionate about, right? We can choose what we want to spend time on, you know, we can, of course, within limits, but you know, there, there are always choices that we can make to make our lives better, and why not in 2021, try to focus as much as we can on those and and see what happens, you know, for the better, because there were a lot of things in 2020 that we had no choices. We could not make any decisions about what happened for many things. So So I love that you're making these really cool choices. And I want to talk about now, as we're heading, you know, to the tail end of the interview, I want to talk about your your business wonder crafter, and specifically the craft Academy. So tell us about what that is. Yeah, so

Unknown: 51:10

the craft Academy is a brand new program that I'm launching in January, I have so far 10 awesome, amazing women entrepreneurs enrolled so far. And every single one of them are go getters. They are boss babes who are ready to take on 2021. So the purpose of the Academy is to niche down your business and your offerings really overcome imposter syndrome, which is something that I'm sure you also go through in you know, that was something that I've been battling for a really long time. And then just really charging your worth as an artist, you know, there's a lot of people who get the notion that you have to be a starving artist for X amount of years before you actually become successful. And as long as you have the right foundation and the right guidance, I think that you can really take your business and your artistic abilities into the next level. So that's what the cast Academy is about.

Julie- Host: 52:06

Yeah, that's awesome. And you said offline, but I know you said that you're starting that at the very beginning of 2021, which is such a cool way to start the new year. I love that. And I you know, I I was intrigued also, because I feel like this is such a good way that, you know, you can teach other people how you have found your own path. And it's not so evasive for people who are trying to start. So I love that idea. And I love that you're doing it with a small group. I think that's super cool to get the hands on kind of community feeling and just the collaboration. I know when I've taught classes in the past, like I love, I just love the collaborative aspects. So I think that's really neat that you're keeping it small to get ya to maintain it. Yeah, I

Unknown: 52:54

think in the beginning, at least for me, the hardest part about having my own business in my own, I guess passion, calligraphy can be fairly lonely, I'm sure you can imagine, you know, being in your room by yourself on you know, watching Netflix and engraving or writing things. So you can be in your room for hours and hours. And it kind of feels like you're by yourself really. And especially in the beginning, when you don't know anyone in the industry, you're kind of figuring everything out on your own. And for me, I I really forced myself to put myself out there, especially in the beginning and reached out to calligraphers all around the world. And it wasn't until I really made those connections with other business women in the industry that I really started to feel like, okay, I belong here. And I don't have to figure this out by myself, I have other people who are going to help me. And you know, I didn't really invest in a coach until 2020 of this this year, it really and after I invested in a coach that really kind of taught me and like kind of walked me through how to rebuild the business and kind of niche down and stuff. That was when my business started to take off. And that was I think when I started getting getting gigs from other celebrities and you know, getting higher paying clients and stuff. So

Julie- Host: 54:14

yeah, and that makes so much sense. Because I think that you know, so it's hard to ask for help. But I think that's so wise that you started searching for people who did what you were doing or what you wanted to be doing. And it sounds like you got a lot of really positive, you know, feedback that people were willing to support you. And do you have any advice for people who are looking for mentors, or for people who are you know, they're trying to connect with to basically find out that yes, I'm not the only one doing this. There are other people out there that I can learn from that I can hopefully lean on and you know, support them as well. How did you go about that process?

Unknown: 54:59

Yes. So I ended up just looking. So I love Instagram, Instagram is like where I started in kind of where I started to put my portfolio and stuff out there. And I went out in, you know, search through hashtags, and I looked at accounts that I really enjoyed. And, you know, I took a handful of accounts that I felt would help me contribute to my business as far as like, you know, looking at photography, or layout or offerings, or like the style even in kind of just creating a feed that you kind of want to embody in your own business. And then just reaching out to people in you know, don't be afraid, just don't be afraid to put yourself out there. Because, you know, like, if you are just posting on your own Instagram, and you're not really networking and giving other people love, like people aren't going to find you like, if you cannot put yourself out there and expect people like you can't expect people to find you, if you don't put yourself out there, you got to put yourself where you want to be found. And I would just, you know, reach out to people, if you think like, Oh, they have 20,000 followers are too busy. For me, they're not too busy for you. Like they know, the purpose of having an account on there is to be social people kind of forget that it's a social media account, right? You know, you're really you can make those genuine connections, even if you're just a stranger reaching out, you can, if you love someone and account specifically, and you want to be friends with them, then email them just, you know, send out a really friendly email, you know, have like a digital coffee date or something. And it really does make all the difference, especially if you can connect with your audience a lot more.

Julie- Host: 56:43

Yeah. And so do you usually to connect with the people that you have? Were you emailing mostly? Or did you dm people on Instagram? How did you go about those actual connection? social media?

Unknown: 56:56

I think for the smaller accounts, I would just dm them. Okay. Yeah. And then for the bigger accounts, I would email them with like, a really catchy headline, and, you know, like a really good body of information. Okay.

Julie- Host: 57:09

Yeah. And that's interesting, because I've found that to be the same like for, for people who have smaller accounts that usually their DMS will go through. But at a certain point, it's like it gets lost in the in the shuffle somehow. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So the emails definitely seem to work better. But yeah, that's interesting that we both have that same experience. So good. Good to note for everyone. Yeah. And then I want to, you know, just to round things off, what is like, you know, one or two things that you love about doing calligraphy? And what what are one or two things that are challenging, about calligraphy about this sort of specific career that you've chosen? Hmm.

Unknown: 57:51

I think the most challenging part is making yourself stand out amongst the other calligraphers as much as it is an amazing community. It's also fairly competitive, which is good because it forces you to work on your craft and work on your business. But I think creating something that you know, holds true to yourself. And you know, just figuring out what your secret sauce is, you know, and then building from that secret sauce really makes you stand out amongst other people.

Julie- Host: 58:21

That makes sense. And what about your favorite one or two favorite things? Like if you, if you could pick the top one or two reasons why you do this every day? What would that be? Okay, question. Thank you.

Unknown: 58:35

I think one of the biggest joys right now, which is also one of the reasons why I created the craft Academy is to continue inspiring other artists to really do what they love. I think, at least for me, I grew up in an Asian household where school was priority. And you know, everything had to be academic, and your success was based off of your academic success. So as an entrepreneur and an artist, they don't really see that, you know, my parents never really saw that as a way of success. So I think just knowing that you can do it, and you can do what you love and make money from it make a good amount of money to like, it's not killing your fee is it's very lucrative. And when you can position yourself to a point where you're creating a very special occasion for someone, I think it really does give you a reason to wake up.

Julie- Host: 59:32

Yeah, yeah, I know. And that, that totally makes sense. And it's interesting, because I think that it would have not been a career that I would have thought of, honestly, you know, until you contacted me like I would have never searched for calligrapher or engraver, you know, like it, which is why I'm doing this show. It's so cool. I reached out to me, because that's the whole point of the show is like, what are the cool jobs that we were doing, but I literally have no idea exists. Yeah, I love your show. It's thanks, I have so much fun doing it. So it's you know, but that's it's really cool to hear about that this is actually a career that has full time potential, and just figuring out how to go about that. And it sounds like you're really on the cusp of figuring out, you know, how to transition from being a pharmacist, which was your passion before, but not maybe your current passion. And and then, you know, going to what you love now? And is there something that for people who are interested in this type of career, you know, whether it's calligraphy or engraving, or both combined? What would you suggest that they do to start down this path?

Unknown: 1:00:46

I think just really practicing and creating what you love to make, and really just practicing your craft and making sure that you kind of figure out, like I said, what your secret sauce is, and really just putting out into the world what you love. And I think success comes from that. Because you are doing what you love, people will see that you love what you're doing. And they want to be a part of that. They want to be a part of your your art, your experiences. And you know, if if I can make a career out of nice handwriting, I don't see why you can't make a career out of like baking or, you know, a podcast like crazy. I used to live Exactly.

Julie- Host: 1:01:31

Yeah, and what so as far as the tools that are needed to begin, what do you think people need to start like if I if I wanted to start doing calligraphy and see if I can get from my two year old abilities to my five year old abilities. And I asked you, Rosie, what should I buy? What would you tell me?

Unknown: 1:01:54

I think honestly, you can do calligraphy with anything like when I was doing calligraphy in pharmacy school, I had a student budget, I literally had like a pen and paper. And literally, that's all you need in you can practice with just a pen and a paper or pencil like whatever you have at home, if you can just start to make those basic strokes and really just figure out what you know, just the simple strokes, and you'll be able to kind of just practice your craft that way. And then from there, you can move on to like brush pens, which are fairly, they're difficult in the beginning. But once you kind of figure out the things and then pressures becomes fairly easy. And then you can move on to pointed pen calligraphy and then you can do engraving. So it really starts with just a simple pen and a paper at home. And there's so many downloadable guides out there. You can put like folk calligraphy on in Google, and then you'll find worksheets and you'll be able to do it at home super easy.

Julie- Host: 1:02:52

And so is it like f x?

Unknown: 1:02:56

Yes. Oh,

Julie- Host: 1:02:57

yeah. Totally French basically French word. Yes, I completely complete side note. Yes. For many years, I thought that full pa was said Fox pa I think my dad finally corrected me when I Oh my God. That was before I took I took French later. That was before my French I guess but it was okay. So for those who may not be familiar with that word, I learned that the hard way. So very cool. Well, and then as far as sort of the community aspect or the organizational aspect. Are there organizations or associations or communities that you're a part of that people could look for as well if they want to find other calligraphers and engravers? Hmm,

Unknown: 1:03:45

that's a good one. So I hopefully within I want to say February or March of next year, I would like to create another like my own kind of community. For right now, I do want to I'm focusing more on the aircraft Academy and just making sure that my 10 students get the support that they need, and hopefully from their experiences, I'll be able to kind of cater another group, but as far as I know, there's a lot of other calligraphers who specifically teach they have really good communities that you can join

Julie- Host: 1:04:21

in, is that on Facebook, or Yeah,

Unknown: 1:04:23

it's mostly Facebook, okay.

Julie- Host: 1:04:24

And what would be like are their key phrases that people would want to look up? I mean, besides the obvious stuff, like calligraphy, refer? Are there things that that I might know that you could give them hint on what to look for? Yeah.

Unknown: 1:04:40

So there's one community that I'm a part of that started off this year and kind of took off and it's calligraphers of color. And that's a collection of calligraphers who are bipoc. And they actually have a really cool community because they they put up questions and stuff like that, and there's so many experienced calligraphers on There that if you have questions about, you know, learning calligraphy or anything like that, you can actually just post up there and they'll they'll happily answer for you. Okay,

Julie- Host: 1:05:09

that sounds amazing. And so that sounds like a great place to start. And I wanted to just for people who don't know bipoc It's a black indigenous people of color. Thank you. So that's, yes. bipoc B IP OC. So that's really cool that that specific group is out there. And is there anything else in general that you would tell people if they are interested in making this a career? Is there anything that I missed that I didn't ask about that? That would be a good resource or someplace for them to start to find a mentor anything that I that I didn't think to ask, you see?

Unknown: 1:05:47

Yeah, I think I found the most benefit in I joined a class or I bought a course called luxury lettering. This was last year. And I ended up joining that group and found another like multiple calligraphers, who are also business owners. And they, they're actually the ones that became my calligraphy business. besties. And so it's great. Yeah, after meeting them, I think was when I started to feel like I was really part of the community.

Julie- Host: 1:06:18

And then where, where do you find them? Like, yeah, so people just google luxury lettering. Does that work?

Unknown: 1:06:24

Yeah, luxury lettering. 101. So that's actually part of a course that I purchased from two calligraphers in Toronto. And they're the ones that kind of brought that field I guess the the luxury lettering field to awareness, I guess, brought me more awareness to that that field. Okay, then. Yeah.

Julie- Host: 1:06:44

Okay. Thank you. Yeah, that's a great resource. Because I think you know, it's always so hard to start sometimes it's like, you get really excited, you're like, this sounds amazing. But then actually figuring out what are the steps to start can be overwhelming. So I love details like this, because I feel like it gives something tangible, that people can can look for and can do if they're interested.

Unknown: 1:07:07

Yeah. And then yeah, and I'm super happy and like, excited to have people reach out to me as well. Starting in, I want to say March ish is when I will be opening the craft Academy up again, after I finished the first cohort. And if anyone wants, even a mentor on the side, I'm more than willing to be their mentor. So just have them reach out to me on Instagram, I'm on their way too much. Or even just send me an email if they have questions about the industry, how we got started any tips or tricks with different materials and mediums? I'm more than happy to answer any questions.

Julie- Host: 1:07:45

Okay, well, thank you for that offer. And if people do want to contact you, what are all the ways that they can contact you i g, your you know, website, go for it. Tell us the information.

Unknown: 1:07:57

Pretty much. I'm on Instagram a lot. So just reach out to me on Instagram, send me a DM it's a wander crafter with an A, I might be rebranding, though. I'm planning on rebranding next year, as well. And it'll be called modern script. So that'll be switched over. You can also email me it's Hello at wander crafter.com. Or you can go to wander crafter.com and find out all the services. I provide more about the Academy. And then you can also just reach out to me as well.

Julie- Host: 1:08:26

Okay, awesome. I know we we want to touch on a few things that you are going to be doing in the future. Because you you mentioned that there's going to be some new things you are creating are going to be doing and we touched a little bit on some of those about the Academy, possibly a Facebook group. So tell us a little bit more detail about that.

Unknown: 1:08:47

Yeah, so I think 2021 is going to be our biggest growth year yet. I'll be launching. Like I said the craft Academy is launching in January with the first cohort and then it'll start to open up to the public in certain rolling multiple enrollments throughout the year starting in March or April. Also, during that time, I plan on launching a YouTube channel so the YouTube channel will have of course engraving tutorials and calligraphy tutorials, but also tutorials on how to run a calligraphy business as well. And then hopefully in I want to say April will have been engraving classes as well, either online or in person. Some of the craft shops in LA.

Julie- Host: 1:09:33

Oh, awesome. Yeah, that's very cool. So is there anything else that you think that we haven't mentioned so far? That is really important as a as a businesswoman and entrepreneur that you've learned, either the hard way or through experience that's important to mention.

Unknown: 1:09:52

I think it's really just valuing your experience and your confidence when you start off especially as As a beginning calligrapher or a beginner podcast, you know, you kind of you doubt yourself a lot, you know, you're kind of figuring it out and you think like, oh, if I get more experience, things will come naturally for me or like, I will start getting paid more if I get more experienced, but or even just overcoming the imposter syndrome, you know, like, everyone has imposter syndrome, everyone thinks that their experience is not where it's supposed to be, or, you know, they kind of put themselves down. And that's just imposter syndrome, you know, knocking at your door, and you just have to, you gotta let the imposter syndrome in really and like, embrace it, I think it's, I think using that imposter syndrome, to make yourself better in your craft in your field is probably the most beneficial thing that you could do for your business is really using that as fuel to make yourself better, better in your field better in your business in Yeah, just

Julie- Host: 1:10:59

yeah. And it's interesting, you bring that up, because my last episode of the year, I actually talked about this and so you guys will obviously get to listen to it before this one. But I have decided that I feel like we should not be even using that word, or the term imposter syndrome anymore. Because the word imposter I like I was an editor. And so I look up words, you know, sometimes, and and the word imposter actually has a really horrible meaning. And the meaning really goes back to the idea that we're purposely trying to deceive someone. And I feel like for all of us, who are trying to start a business, or who are trying to do something new in their career, or get to that next level, there is like probably such a tiny, miniscule amount of people who are literally trying to be deceitful, versus those of us who are just really passionate about something, we're excited about something, and we want to do something new. But it's that idea that like, we don't have the confidence maybe yet, or is that we don't have enough of the details worked out yet. But that is we're not actually imposters. So that's my challenge to everyone for 2021 is to actually try to stop using imposter syndrome, because I feel like it has such a negative connotation, like such a negative meaning behind it. But we're not imposters we just we have to build our confidence in that area, which is okay, because we're still learning and we're growing. And we're gonna, we're gonna do it. We're just at the beginning. So I love that.

Unknown: 1:12:27

I love that so much.

Julie- Host: 1:12:31

Yeah, I came up with that, because I hear that, that terms thrown around it. And you know, I come from an adult ed background. And then I have little kids. And then I've worked with older adults, I've worked with adults in memory care. And it's like, I've seen different stages of learning and growing. And it's really the idea that we have to all start somewhere, no matter where we're at, no matter how old we're at, or how how much we've done in a particular field. If we're learning anything new, we have to start at the beginning. And that's it's hard, and we're not gonna do it perfectly. But that doesn't mean that we're imposters we're not deceiving anybody. We're just, we're at the beginning of learning, and then we'll figure it out. You know, so, anyways, I love that. Yeah, I'm glad you like it. I, I feel like we do ourselves almost a disservice sometimes, you know, because like what you said, like, we have to, we have to learn, and we have to go through a process. And that's okay. That's how we figure out where Nisha is. That's how we figure out what we're really good at. That's how we figure out how we can help people and build our own community. You know, all that work takes takes a while, sometimes it's not. And that's

Unknown: 1:13:40

okay. That's okay. You have to embrace, embrace the journey, take all the growing pains and learn from it. And really just hone down what you are passionate about, and make those mistakes. Because when you are big time, you're not going to be able to make those mistakes the same way. Yeah.

Julie- Host: 1:13:57

Which is so true, because people will expect a higher level of performance at that point. Mm hmm. Yeah. So awesome. It has been such a pleasure talking to Rosie, and I'm so excited, you'll have to keep in touch with me and let me know all about what happens for you. And yeah, but it's just been such a pleasure. And I love you know, I love that. It seemed like at the beginning, you were doing two completely different things like, you know, on opposite ends of the spectrum. But the interesting thing is, I think that while it seems that way from the beginning, you know, the fact that your new direction actually has so many elements that you've you've used in the past or that you learned in the past from being a pharmacist, and now you get to incorporate that into your new business and do that with the calligraphy and engraving and it's just really fascinating. So I'm excited to see your journey. I'm excited for you. You know, maybe we'll have to come back on the show, too, and you can be amazing. I think that I also want to say to everyone listening that We should never be afraid, right? If we have a new passion, it's okay to follow the new passion, right? We, we learn and grow and and we change and you know, and sometimes life takes us in a different direction that we never thought we would go in. But it's Yeah, I'm

Unknown: 1:15:13

sure you didn't think that you were going to be the head of an amazing podcast.

Julie- Host: 1:15:20

You're so sweet. No, I really did it. Yeah, it's, it is crazy. You know, and never say never. You can never say never with having kids. And clearly, I could never say never with having, you know, just like different things happen because I would have never thought I would have been on a microphone, interviewing strangers. It's just one of the it's been a true blessing.

Unknown: 1:15:40

Yeah. So see where you go as well.

Julie- Host: 1:15:42

I'm really excited for you. Thanks, Rosie. All right. So thank you so much for being on the show. And Happy 2021 for everyone listening. I hope you start out your new year with so much joy, so much happiness and first and foremost, loss of health. Thanks, Rosie. Thank you. Hey, everybody, thank you so much for listening to women with cool jobs. I'll be releasing a new episode every two weeks. So make sure you hit that subscribe button. And if you loved the show, please give me a five star rating. Also, it would mean so much if you share this episode with someone you think would love it or would find it inspirational. And lastly, do you have ideas for future shows? Or do you know any Rockstar women with cool jobs? I would love to hear from you. You can email me at Julie at WomenwithCoolJobs calm or you can find me on Instagram at women cool jobs. Again, that's women will jobs. Thank you so much for listening and have an incredible day.