Talent + Talks Podcast

Future Proof Your Sales Role... Bring VALUE! - Talent + Talks Ep. 11 with John Barrows

December 02, 2020 Scott Rivers Season 1 Episode 11
Talent + Talks Podcast
Future Proof Your Sales Role... Bring VALUE! - Talent + Talks Ep. 11 with John Barrows
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Talent + Talks Podcast
Future Proof Your Sales Role... Bring VALUE! - Talent + Talks Ep. 11 with John Barrows
Dec 02, 2020 Season 1 Episode 11
Scott Rivers

Most of you will know John Barrows from his experience at Thrive Networks which he and his High School friends sold to Staples, or from his training and speaking engagements that have you glued to your seats waiting for more... Either way, John joins us on the podcast today to discuss everything sales and sales training.

John Barrows is the CEO of JB Sales and host of the Make It Happen Monday's podcast.  He is also the author of the sales book for kids, I Want to be in Sales When I Grow Up. John has lead and delivered sales training and guidance to some of the largest and fastest-growing companies in the world including the likes of Salesforce.com, Google, LinkedIn, DropBox, and many others.

Today, John discusses everything from how he continues to stay sharp and get better by at least 1% every day to how you can start building your own personal brand.  John gets very specific and granular, so you will walk away knowing how to start educating yourself and then providing context for your audience thus building your own personal brand using LinkedIn.  After listing to and applying this message, you will be a better salesperson and overall a better person.

To find John on LinkedIn, you can visit his page here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnbarrows/

Please reach out and let him know that you listened to him on the Talent + Talks Podcast.  It would mean a lot if you would reach out to him on LinkedIn and let him know you heard him on our podcast. 

Also, you can learn more about John on his website: 
https://jbarrows.com/

For Individual training, check out John's training here:
https://ondemand.jbarrows.com/

Finally, if you have a young one at home, here is a link to John's book on Amazon.
https://amzn.to/36sR2Vn

Mentioned in Video:
Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion, Revised Edition
by Robert B. Cialdini
https://amzn.to/3lugDlg

If you haven't connected with Scott, please connect with him on LinkedIn.  You can find him here:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/scottrivers/

Lastly, please check out our latest book on The Art of Hiring A Players.  You can get this awesome resource for free by going to this link:  https://cercatalent.com/hiring-a-players-ebook/

Cerca Talent:  https://www.cercatalent.com/

Show Notes Transcript

Most of you will know John Barrows from his experience at Thrive Networks which he and his High School friends sold to Staples, or from his training and speaking engagements that have you glued to your seats waiting for more... Either way, John joins us on the podcast today to discuss everything sales and sales training.

John Barrows is the CEO of JB Sales and host of the Make It Happen Monday's podcast.  He is also the author of the sales book for kids, I Want to be in Sales When I Grow Up. John has lead and delivered sales training and guidance to some of the largest and fastest-growing companies in the world including the likes of Salesforce.com, Google, LinkedIn, DropBox, and many others.

Today, John discusses everything from how he continues to stay sharp and get better by at least 1% every day to how you can start building your own personal brand.  John gets very specific and granular, so you will walk away knowing how to start educating yourself and then providing context for your audience thus building your own personal brand using LinkedIn.  After listing to and applying this message, you will be a better salesperson and overall a better person.

To find John on LinkedIn, you can visit his page here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnbarrows/

Please reach out and let him know that you listened to him on the Talent + Talks Podcast.  It would mean a lot if you would reach out to him on LinkedIn and let him know you heard him on our podcast. 

Also, you can learn more about John on his website: 
https://jbarrows.com/

For Individual training, check out John's training here:
https://ondemand.jbarrows.com/

Finally, if you have a young one at home, here is a link to John's book on Amazon.
https://amzn.to/36sR2Vn

Mentioned in Video:
Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion, Revised Edition
by Robert B. Cialdini
https://amzn.to/3lugDlg

If you haven't connected with Scott, please connect with him on LinkedIn.  You can find him here:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/scottrivers/

Lastly, please check out our latest book on The Art of Hiring A Players.  You can get this awesome resource for free by going to this link:  https://cercatalent.com/hiring-a-players-ebook/

Cerca Talent:  https://www.cercatalent.com/

Scott Rivers:

Hello, my friends and welcome back to yet another talent talks podcast. I'm your host, Scott Rivers and I am looking forward to another great show Today's guest is not gonna disappoint. As we're looking at 2020 and wrapping it up, it's now December, I can't believe it. It's already December. Christmas will be here before we know it. And then after that, we've got 2021. And I hope all of you are ready to come out the gates running in 2021. Today's guest is going to help you do that. Before we go any further, I want to remind you, you have access to a free tool on our website. If you go to circa talent.com, you can download a free book The Art of hiring a players today, this book was written for you in order to help you identify and attract and engage and ultimately hire the best talent in the market today. Whether you're using an outside firm or not, this will definitely help you. It also talks about employment branding, which is more important today than ever. So check it out for free the art of hiring a players Today on our site, circa talent.com. Today's guest is one that I've been following for a long time. And I think that, like I said earlier, you're going to get a lot of this. A lot out of this as you look at building your plan for 2021. Today's guest is john barrows. As with all of our guests, you'll find him on LinkedIn, you can see this right here, if you're looking on YouTube, if not, I will have the link in the show notes. Check him out on LinkedIn. After you listen to this. If it brings value, which I know it will go ahead and reach out to them on LinkedIn, let them know that you heard about him on the talent talks podcast, I recommend that in addition to that, that you go ahead and check out his website. Now if you go to his website, which is Jay barrows.com, you'll find all of the things that john offers. He offers sales training, both from an individual standpoint, as well as for groups. And he also does events. And so you'll find out all of that if you go to his website, that is at Jay barrows.com. Also, if you're looking for individual training, which I got to tell you, I mentioned this in the podcast and I'm dead serious, I lose money on these podcasts. I signed up for this. There's a lot of good content in here. And john talks about it in our show today. So listen to that, if you find it useful, go ahead and click on the individuals or for individuals on JB sales, you can see the pricing there. I think it's extremely reasonable. And like I said, I went ahead and bought it. The next thing is make it happen Mondays as his podcast, I find this to be tremendously valuable, I find the guest to be engaging, and knowledgeable. And again, john brings just a ton of value here. Lastly, you can see his book that he's written, he's actually written a children's book. And that book is called I want to be in sales when I grow up. Imagine that a book about sales from a sales guy like john, I think that this is cool. We don't really get into it on the show today. But I wanted to bring it up because I think it is cool. And it definitely speaks to the fact that this guy is always innovating, always trying to get better. And always trying to frankly, give away as much of his information as possible. Do me a favor. If you're listening to this and getting any value. Go ahead and give us a rating wherever it is that you're listening, whether it's on Apple podcast, or Spotify, give us a rating on any of those platforms, it will help us out tremendously. And allow more people to get this content again, if it's helping you. It can help somebody else, please do that for us. And without further ado, I'd like to introduce you to my friend, john barrows. Ladies and gentlemen, john barrows is on the show today. I know that I gave a quick introduction early on, it's really impossible to go through all of the things that he's done. And I'll tell you, as I've started learning from him and started gathering information, and even preparing for this, I'm sold. I am a fan. And I am looking forward to learning more from you today. And even after today, john, thanks for joining us.

John Barrows:

Yeah, thanks for having me on. I appreciate it.

Scott Rivers:

Well, let's give everyone some more background. Like I said, I gave them a little bit of an introduction, but it's impossible to really talk about, you know, some of the stuff that you've done without hearing it directly from you. Do me a favor, give our listeners a little bit of the background. How did you get where you are today? There was a small company called thrive networks to kind of put everything on the map. But, you know, start from wherever you want to start and tell us a little bit more about you. Yeah,

John Barrows:

appreciate I'll try. I'll try to make it brief I here. But there is some context to the audience to you know, grew up here in Boston. I'm still live here, went down to Maryland drank my way through four years of college, got my degree in marketing, because I didn't know what I wanted to be when I grew up and then got out in sales and got out into the real world and realized that I didn't want to do that, like just like everybody else, right? I mean, you. It's very rare. I mean, we're starting to finally see that you can get a degree in sales in some universities, but back then you couldn't. So I fell in just like everybody else. My first job was the Walt right driving around giving away free tools to construction workers, which was pretty cool. Then I sold copiers at Xerox. Right. And that's where I got my real sales education. I'm talking about selling a commodity. Right, right. But they just made it over 42 pages a minute. Ooh. And I mean, talk about knocking on door I mean, literally knocking on doors with a copier in tow trying to you know, have the client come talk to me, right. Um, I did that for a year and a half. Then I started thrive. So a couple of buddies of mine from high school, we got together and we started an outsourced IT services firm, where we did outsource it services for the SMB market. So companies under 200 employees, we manage their infrastructure servers workstation backup security, we actually had a lot of Life Sciences biotech pharma clients here in Boston. And I was 23. So I didn't know what the hell I was doing so and we were self funded to By the way, we had no money. So I was the sales marketing PR engine that was and so I took every training there was I took sailor Miller Heiman, Taz spin, you name the sales methodology, and I took it. And I came across this company called basho. And Basha was the first training that I took that I really liked. And the reason was because it was super tactical. It wasn't this big theory about selling or this huge process I had to follow it was like, Hey, here's how to send an email, send an email, here's I make a phone call, make a phone call. So I used it to help grow thrive up, we ended up being the fastest growing company in Massachusetts for a few years in a row got us to about 12 million in revenues, about 85 employees, and then we sold it off to staples. So staples came about us and spent about a year going through that integration come to find out apparently I'm not a corporate guy. I don't have much of a filter. And I really don't like playing politics. So after a little while staples offered me another position, which was a really nice way of firing me. And and I was looking for a job and basho said Johnny won't be a trainer. And I'm like, No, absolutely not. And they're like, why not? I'm like, I don't like trainers. Because up until that point in my career, the only type of sales trainers I've ever come across either failed sales professionals or professional presenters. And you know, if you ever been through a training, we could tell the guys never actually done what they're telling you what to do. I didn't want to be that guy. And so they said, Don't worry, you have to use these techniques to sell so you can train so you can get paid. Right? All right. I like this practice what you preach, join basho took on some bigger accounts brought on some bigger ones. And then I make a very long story short, they screwed it all up and I took it over. So they fired everybody 2007 hit right. restructure the company went all in on software. I took the training, started with another business partner then went off on my own about eight years ago with Jay barrows. And now I'm working with a lot of SaaS companies. So Salesforce, LinkedIn, Box, Dropbox, Google Slack, you know, a lot of the kind of high growth companies, they're a big business without Yeah, it's bad news. I mean, and it's not that this is SaaS training is just I like playing in the SaaS world, because we were talking about this before, you know, innovation, right? SaaS, obviously innovates from a tech standpoint, but they also innovate from a sales standpoint, right? Because it like Salesforce, they're one of my biggest clients. If If I'm training Salesforce on the same stuff, I was training them on two or three years ago, they're not renewing my contract, right? So I got to update. So for me, I'm CEO, my own little company here, I got seven employees, I still prospect every day, I still do a little bit of prospecting every day, I also manage 10 to 20 deals in my pipeline in any given point in time. And I also cross sell upsell into existing accounts. So I do all those things, while before COVID, flying all around the world and doing these trainings. Now I do them all remotely while managing a team and everything else. So

Scott Rivers:

yeah, very cool. You mentioned something earlier about, you know, growing up in Xerox and that was kind of your first step in sales training. I think so many people are missing that today. I don't care if it's Cutco, Xerox, whatever it is, people need to jump into sales, they need to understand what it means to present to get your head bashed, and to get the door slammed on you. And we're missing out on that. I get more people calling me today saying, hey, how do I get into pharmaceutical sales? How do I get into diagnostic sales? You got to learn how to sell? Yeah, I think we'll start.

John Barrows:

Yeah, take your lumps. I you know, in look, I think the lumps are coming different these days. If I if I do talk about the SaaS world a little bit, they have that entry level role, the BDR, the SDR who all they do is make cold calls and send emails all day long. That's taking your lumps a little bit. But, you know, we've kind of gotten away from, you know, the SaaS world as much as I love the segmentation of roles. What I you know, because now it's like there's an there's, there's one rep that only deals with inbound, right, and then there's another rep that only makes cold calls to set up meetings. And then there's another rep that takes those meetings and closes you know, that type of thing. And I think it's great from a company standpoint, because that's the way you can scale but the challenge with that is, is I It's it. It slows the development of a fully developed sales rep. Right? Because with me, you and I like when we got into sales it was here's your territory kid. Good luck. Right? Right, you had to find meat, close everything. Um, and so the challenge with that as a lot more people got out of sales a lot faster, because they were like, holy shit, I can't do all this stuff. Right, right. But those who stayed and stuck with it got really good as a well rounded sales professional. Yeah, and and I think we're missing a lot of that right now is that that, that entry level, like, just get your teeth kicked in for a little bit. I was doing a podcast recently with this woman. And we talked about like, I really think everybody coming out of college, I don't care what your job is, you should get like a set of steak knives, you know, like 25 steak knives that you have to go sell door to door, right? You can't sell the friends, you can't sell the family or anything like that. And you can't get a job until you sell those 12 sets of knives, right? Just to feel the what it's like to get have to, you know, get uncomfortable and get in front of other people, right? Because sales is so universal. Whether you go into entrepreneurship, or whatever you roll you want to have in a business, you sell your ideas, you sell for funding you sell, you know everything. And that skill is critical from a communication standpoint.

Scott Rivers:

Hundred percent, even if it's just learning how to think on your feet, right? Someone asks you a question, you've got to learn how to listen number one, which a lot of people have a tough time with number two, you got to be able to think on your feet and come up with solutions that are real and a good fit for that particular at that point client. So yeah, I love it. I love that idea. In fact, I think I listened to that podcast you're talking about, there were a lot of good things that came out of that. We'll talk about your podcast here in just a little bit. Let me ask you this. And I asked this of everyone. So what is it that you do? And I'm sure a lot of it is your training. But what is it that you do today to stay sharp and stay focused and stay ready to be able to come out and do everything that you're doing for your clients? Yeah,

John Barrows:

a lot of it has to do with goal setting. You know, I'm a big goal setter of where I want to be and then backing into the numbers of what I need to do to stay organized, right? Because I'm also a shiny object guy. Yeah, where if I don't have that Guiding Light, I'm like, Oh, that's, you know what I mean? And all of a sudden, I've done nothing. And so a big thing about prioritization and goal setting for me, but also just kind of micro learning. Um, I constantly am picking small things to improve on myself. A once a week, once a month. So I'll give you an example. Early in my career, you know, I went to Toastmasters, right? Toastmasters, you know, public speaking and whatever, and they don't count how many ohms and ahhs and all your weak words and filler words. And I was and I was so appalled at how many I had, it was almost overwhelming for me to I'm like, how I'm a disaster. You know what I mean? Like, I'm a legitimate disaster, I say, I'm 700 times I say like, you know, maybe possibly, and all these different things. I'm like, I can't fix this. But what I started to do is like, Alright, you know, I'm not gonna boil the ocean here. Right? Let me pick one thing. So let me let me hyper focus on my arms. This month. That's it. And, and so and what I would do I tell everybody around me, hey, if you hear me when I'm presenting, or if I'm talking, or if I'm meeting with somebody, if you hear me say, um, I want after that meeting, I want you to tell me how many times I said, I'm right, or and I would put sticky notes on my computer that said, I'm with a big x through it, right? And then I got that out. Right? So I started when I was conscious of the problem. And I started working on it, but focusing on that and only that I was able to work on it right? And then next month, I would pick something else. And then next month, I would pick something else. So whether it's whether it's a new approach to cold calling, and how I even So even as micro is how I introduce myself over the phone, okay, why do I say hi, Scott? This is john barrows from JB sales. How you doing today? Or do I say, hey, Scott, thanks for taking my call. You got a couple of minutes. Right? Right.

Scott Rivers:

Okay.

John Barrows:

Which one of those works better? And for me, you know, I think now more than ever, and this hopefully will help the audience here. You know, I believe, you know, sales is science art, right? It's both. Um, I personally think that sales should be much more of a science than an art. Because the science lays the foundation for the art form to be that much more effective, the structure, the process we put in place, and somebody asked me recently, and you know, john, now that you're 45, you know, if you could go back and tell your 22 year old self something, what would it be? My number one answer to that was a be split test everything you do test at all, I mean, that across the board, say you're calling into, I don't know CFOs in you know, pharmaceutical, whatever, right? Come up with two different messages to CFOs. in that space, make 20 phone calls to this approach, make 20 phone calls out of PR see which one yields a higher response rate. Yeah, if you got one email that can be sent out to a whole group of people that all fit a similar approach. File, send the same email, but split it 50 you know 2525 and tweak the subject line, see which one gets a higher open rate, objection handling. I don't know the best way to put the you know, handle objections. But it's I always say it's not rocket science, there's a science write down on objection, you're getting hammered on, go on google and type in best objection handling techniques, right, find a couple that you like, the next 10 times that objection comes up, deal with it this way, the next 10 times deal with it that way, that way, you get better every day, because because we're now dealing in a world where sales is a brutal profession, okay? What used to make it somewhat tolerable was that we were getting our asses kicked. But we'd at least be getting our asses kicked with a whole bunch of other sales reps in the office and a bullpen that we could commiserate with right or on the client. And every once in a while, they'd be nice to us and grab, you know, we'd be able to grab coffee with them. Now, we're all sitting at home, by ourselves, getting our asses handed to us. And it is really, really hard to get up and get motivated, when that's the scenario, right. But if you become a scientist, you can actually get through this. And you can get through this stronger, because let's put it this way. So you make 50 dials in a day, right? And you get no meetings. That's a terrible day, terrible day. But But if you make 50 dials, and you do $25, with this approach and $25 without approach, and you still get no meetings, to me, that's not a bad day,

Scott Rivers:

you've learned something,

John Barrows:

two approaches that don't work, right. And if you can learn something, like you said, if you can learn something, every day, you can get through this, and you're going to come out way stronger on the other end.

Scott Rivers:

So true. We've got a lot of bunch of a lot of budget, we've got a lot of lonely salespeople right now. And they need to almost find ways to gamify what they're doing to stay engaged and keep learning and keep going. And you're right, the bullpen was awesome. Because you would mess up on a call. And somebody's gonna, somebody's gonna start laughing their ass off and come at you and say something about it. Or, or when you get a big when you've got a lot of people cheering you on? That's right. And so we're missing that today. And in fact, you know, it's interesting, because think about, and we'll get back to this in a minute. Think about all of these people who are outside salespeople who are now stuck at home. And they're trying to figure out, you know, which way is up? And how do I continue to be productive. And frankly, their managers are trying to figure out how they can be productive as well. John, what what, ultimately your I guess what initially got me interested in you was I saw some of your postings on LinkedIn, like so many other people that we've had on the show, you're putting out tons of content, your brand is everywhere, which is awesome. And that led me to your podcast, which I'm a I'm a follower of. And in fact, I told you earlier, I'm a member of your training programs as well. So this podcast is costing me money. But I love the fact that you're putting so much out for people to learn from just for free. Why do you do that? Why, why? And why are you doing that on LinkedIn? Tell me more about what you're doing in order to I guess what your ultimate goal is by putting out all this information for free?

John Barrows:

Yeah, no, I appreciate the you know, it's about it's about elevating the profession, you know, so I went back Gary Vaynerchuk. One big fan of he's kind of crazy, but he's cool. Um, I went to his program a while back. Well, not a program that you can actually go it's called a 4d expertise. Sure. Yeah. So I did it. It was I was the second group that went through it. And what happened was, you know, they bring you through all what all the different departments are doing. And Gary comes in at the end does a q&a with you. But one of the things I did is and I've always heard about, you know, what's your why, right? What you got to have that that Northern Light, like, what's the Why? Why do you do what you do? And it was a perfect time for me, because I was really trying to restructure and think about what the next steps were for my business. And, you know, my, why is sales done? Right. Right. Is is trying to elevate the profession. Because nobody, you know, it's the default profession. Okay? We, I mean, again, finally, you're starting to see some universities, there's probably about 60 of them that you can get an actual major in right now. Um, but that, but that's just a new thing. And so, it drives me crazy that this is the number one profession on the planet. And yet none of us are actually formally taught how to do it. Right. I mean, we just figure it out along the way. And I'm a big believer that if you come across something that works, I think it's almost incumbent upon us to share it to try to elevate the overall profession, right? I mean, yes, sales is a is an individual, right? But if, but if you don't take that holistic approach of trying to get make the whole greater than the parts, right, I think you're missing out. And for me, I was I've been blessed with some really cool experiences. I've learned a lot along the way. I know I got a lot more to learn. But when I got into this game about 10 years ago, like shit, you got a better shot at seeing God back then of some of a sales trainer, sharing their content, you know, or whatever it was, because because it was like, I'm the smart one. And this is my IP and, and I mean very nothing new in sales like Give me a break. Any jackass that tells you there's something new in sales is just full of shit because all it is is a repurposed whatever I mean, I could go back and read Sandler's shit from 20 years ago or customer centric selling or what you name it right? And you you think of anything that's happening today and you can reverse engineer it to find out Yep, that's what it was it was just using a different medium to actually deliver the content or whatever it is. So it's not about enough anything new. So for me, it's like, why not share it out there? Right. And I'm a big believer going back to Gary Vee, Jab, Jab, Jab, Right Hook, right? The givers gain mentality of the more you put out there, the more value you put out there, the more people will be attracted to you. And, and so that's why I give away I tell people all this time, like, you know, by buying anything from me, I'm good between my blog, my resource library, and what I put out there on LinkedIn, and what my team is doing right now, if you really wanted to, you'd spend, you could spend the time and get to get 95% of what I charge people for. Yeah, about why people pay for it is the structure, right is the learning path is the context around that stuff, and how it all fits together. It's like Same thing with Harvard, right? You can get a Harvard degree for free, if you wanted to every course at Harvard is free. Online, go ahead, take it, you're not going to get the degree, you're not going to get the thing, but you can be a Harvard grad, if you will, with the same stuff. There's somebody who's gonna spend $80,000 a year to be there. So what I'm trying to do is just share it out there and and, you know, hopefully, share some good ideas and create that conversation going. So we can rise the tide a little bit here. Dude, it works.

Scott Rivers:

It definitely worked for me, I enjoy what you're putting out. And, frankly, me joining for that annual membership. And we'll talk about it more. It was worth every bit of that just based upon the content that I'd already received from you and the training that I'd already gotten from you. The problem is, is that I do it so often. I've got more wine at my house that I know what to do with because a Gary Vaynerchuk right? out and then he's like, well, you should buy some wine, then I'm like, yeah, so I do. I'll never get through the wine that I have at my house.

John Barrows:

Well, there's also actually a small thing on that one really quick. There's a psychology piece around this. And this is a tip for everybody listening, go get the book. If you ever read the book influenced by Robert Cialdini, I don't think so. Oh, so So read that. So put this on your list. And for your listeners, please put this on your list. It's my favorite book. I don't I'm not a reader. Here I've read like five or six books in my life. This one is on the top of the list. It's not a book on sales. It's a book on psychology and why we do the things the way we do them. And all of it translates to sales. So one of one of the concepts or one of the rules in there is called the Rule of Reciprocity. Right? Which is a human condition, right? When somebody when somebody asks for something, they feel obligated to give you something in return. When you give something to somebody, there's no there's a slight small psychological thing in there that says, Man, you know, I feel like reciprocating eventually, right, so if you get a ton of value, eventually, there's almost this obligation was shit, man, I gotta, I gotta pony up and buy that wine. I got a pony. You know what I mean? Like, so it does come back around. And it is a psychology thing. It's not a trick. It's not a technique. It's a real thing.

Scott Rivers:

Yeah. And it must work. Because I could have done the four DS program and a lot of other stuff for the amount of money I've spent on wine. So it's working. You know, I know a lot of a lot of your stuff is dealing with the SaaS community, right. And for those out there in the life sciences group Software as a Service is a very large community out there. And John does a lot of training in that area. But John, I think that there are areas of that that have been missing in life sciences, you talked about the SDR role, and and there's groups within even recruiting that are talking about an SDR role for recruiting. But let's talk about that for a minute. Do you think that there's parts of the SaaS world that should be making their way into life sciences right now? Especially given the pandemic and people working from home?

John Barrows:

Yeah, yeah, I mean, well, I think we can all pull from each other. But I think SaaS is a unique industry in this sense that it's almost over techno technology, the focus, right and it's taking a little bit the human eye actually almost wish that the SaaS reps would would go meet with door to door, you know, relationship, develop other industries to understand what I don't want to say real sales is, but understand what it's like to have to go into an office, you know, talk to somebody face to face, you know, develop that relationship because SaaS is so like, you know, instant gratification, like let's go go go go, go, go go. And so I think we can both learn from each other, but for the stuff that I think, you know, life sciences and such can learn from SaaS. Um, it's about leveraging the technology to do the stuff that we don't we shouldn't necessarily be doing right? So, you know, it's kind of like a four hour workweek, right? That book is you always want to outsource the stuff that you know, figure out what your hourly rate is. And then you know, go find somebody, if there's a thing that you do that somebody else can do cheaper, outsource it, so you can keep doing what you're doing. Technology has a lot to do with that. So here's a tip a, there's a product out there that I'm a huge fan of. It's called crystal nose. Okay, and it's not a drug site. But it's crystal, k, n, o Ws. And what it is, is, so I'm going to park that for a second. What, what we used to have is when when I showed up your office, Scott, I usually spend the first 10 to 15 minutes kind of figuring you out, you know what I mean? Like, what kind of vibe are you right now? Oh, you know, I see your fishermen and like that type of crap, right?

Scott Rivers:

And we're loud or verbose or and you're trying to match that to build that rapport? Of course, yeah.

John Barrows:

Because because there's, there's a big thing about mirroring, right? Like, if I can mirror you and in your, in my style are similar, you're going to be more open to me. Right? Right. I'm like, on fire and you're really passive, like, you're gonna hate not

Scott Rivers:

It's not going to

John Barrows:

So we would usually try to figure that out, right? We've lost that we've lost because now it's okay, you got to half an hour, what do you got? kid go, right. So we got to find some tools these days to skip the line a little bit, right. And crystal knows is one of my tools that I skipped the line, what it does is it's it's a disc profile. So you know, disc, Myers, Briggs, all our stuff. So I can put your name and it's a Chrome plugin. And for everybody, listen, I think you get 10 free views of profiles, and then you have to pay for it. But it's like the best 30 bucks a month I've ever spent. I put your name in there, Scott, in LinkedIn, it's a Chrome plugin. So in LinkedIn little thing comes out, click on that, it gives me a full disc profile of you, and tells me how I can sell it and how you and I can how you and I match. And what best way to sell to you is Okay, so now I put your name in there. And if you're a high D, and I'm a high D, I don't have to worry about that part, right? Because I could just be me. But if you're a high or a high s, or a high C, I know I got to adjust my style coming into this because I don't I don't have that luxury anymore of meeting with you, and developing the rapport up front. That's cool. So

Scott Rivers:

I like that,

John Barrows:

Tools was like th t tools like owler O W L E R where I can take all my accounts and put it in like Google alerts on steroids and get alerts about what was happening in my clients. So I don't have to always go and do research, try to find new reasons to reach out to them. You know, SaaS the segmentation of roles. You know, I'm a little in the middle of this right now. Because I think the SDR and again, for those listening sales development role, that's the one who just makes cold calls to set up meetings for the account executives or the sales reps. You know, I think that model is gonna break, I think it's great for businesses, because it helps scale because you can get a young kid, you know, 22 years old, pay him 50 G's a year, get them to, you know, beat the crap out of them for a little bit. And then they evolve to, you know, grow up into your, you know, transition. So it's a great scale, but it's not a really good model from the client perspective. Because, you know, you have to talk to four people before you actually end up talking to somebody who knows what they're talking about type of thing. So I think we're moving back to full cycle sales with account based marketing and, and and that type of thing supporting full cycle sales reps. So I'm a little in the in the middle of should, should you adapt, adopt that now? I think it's good to have some kids inside just making calls to get meetings with people, but that doesn't remove the need for their sales rep to do it themselves. Okay.

Scott Rivers:

I think it's a great training ground, though, isn't it? I mean, oh, it's a great, it's a great training ground, it's good for that individual who stepped into the role. It's good for the company to get a sense of Hey, is this somebody that can be grown up and built up to be something else within the organization? But even the SDR role, I think in SaaS is a pretty short term job, right? I mean, people are putting

John Barrows:

out a total 18 months, okay. Yeah. But you're seeing it becoming a more of a lifer role, right? Because and especially in this world, there's a lot of kids who are like, you know what, I just like making calls like some kids are just not good at closing. So you said, you know, your skill was you put me in front, you get me to close and I'm in right. There are other kids that, like I got one of my team. James, I love him like a brother, right? This kid is fantastic. On the prospecting side, a kid can't close the door, though. Right? So so so you know, we tried to get him into that a role now. And it was it was a disaster. And I was like, Whoa, whoa, whoa. And we just after talking it through, he just doesn't like that. You know what I mean? He doesn't enjoy that he enjoys the front end. So there's there's people who are starting to be full cycle of you know, full time inside BDR SDR roles and saying, why I don't, I don't always have to go there. You know what I mean? Like, so yes, it is a starting out. But the beauty is now because it's becoming so data and analytics driven, right. It's actually an avenue, I think to go into marketing operations or sales. Yeah. So you get in there. And that's the other last thing I'll say on On what I think, you know, maybe the life science and can learn from from the SaaS world is, is really being very hyper focused on analytics.

Scott Rivers:

Yeah, users know your information.

John Barrows:

Exactly. And constantly evolving and making decisions based on that data, not just because you're working harder,

Scott Rivers:

not only that, know your customer, right, this is a time that if you don't know your customer, or you know, from a training standpoint, the persona of who your ideal customer is, you've missed out. And we've had nine, we've had eight months, we're gonna have a few more months to figure this out. If you haven't done it yet. Now it's time to start

John Barrows:

you better because I'd like it. If anybody right now who's waiting it for waiting for it to go back to normal is I think they're already dead. I think they're already a dinosaur. Because this ain't going back to normal, whatever normal was, by the way, um, but the, like customers are getting used to this. So forget about sales reps for a second clients, the buyer is getting used to this and they're liking it. They're liking it, because Look, don't get me wrong, there's certain relationships that everybody you know, that I miss. And there's certain industries obviously, that that really enjoy that that type of face to face type of thing. But the more efficient we get with this remote, the more time the more times I can meet with six vendors in a day instead of one vendor in a day. And I can do it in a half an hour instead of an hour. And I don't have to do all this fluff. And I don't have to feel bad if the sales rep brings me lunch, and I don't really like it, you know what I mean? Like, we're, they're getting used to it. So if we're not getting used to it, we're gonna want to wake up very, very soon and become and be irrelevant,

Scott Rivers:

right? So So now more so than ever, it's time to sharpen the sword get better at your craft be a better salesperson, I said this, we had Chris Walker on the show, I think marketing is more important now than it ever has been. Because customers are making decisions about who they want to buy from or what they want to buy. Even before seeing a sales rep. That's when they're reaching out.

John Barrows:

So So I mean, corporate executive board, they came up with a challenger sale, right? And they talk about by the time somebody comes to us, they're already 60 to 70% of the way through the sales process, right. And to put a pin on that one jeetu crowd, so jeetu crowd, right b2b Review website. I didn't I train their team. And as I was sitting in the kickoff, I almost fell out of my chair, when I heard this one. Beat it a jeetu crowd is the top 200th most trafficked website on the internet. So Amazon, Google, Facebook, you name it. And you got a b2b Review website as the top 200 trafficked website on the internet. That is telling me that clients are doing far more research on us before we are on them. Yeah, so the days of Hey, Scott, tell me about your business. That ship has sailed, right? You know what I mean? I think that's actually one of the most insulting things you can say to anybody at this point is that you're first of all, you're going to take my most valuable asset, which is my time, and you're going to roll in and say something dumb, like, tell me about your business, when all you had to do is a quick little Google search, right? Before we got on this call. And find out every I mean, talk about marketing, I mean, companies spend millions of dollars, SEO, all these different things to tell the world about their business. And the first thing you're going to do when you walk in there and say, Tell me about your business? Or John, let me get a little background on yourself. Like what? Like, go on LinkedIn, read it through your work,

Scott Rivers:

right. Do what you need to do to walk in and bring value around it. Yeah, that's not bringing value to your client.

John Barrows:

No, value is giving me time back value is being direct by value is bringing a level of insight that I haven't heard before, but you got to know your homework before you can do that.

Scott Rivers:

Yeah, and I think that level of insight is something that we want to talk about for a little bit as well because, you know, you've actually got some training on your site talking about personal branding and and I feel like you know, bringing value to people is part of what can help develop your personal brand. How do you think especially as we look at our target audience, Life Sciences, diagnostics, genetics, people selling into hospitals and even some selling into those companies, those diagnostic companies helping them to build some of the products they're doing? How do those individual sales people start to create value and build their personal brand today? Well, how did they start?

John Barrows:

Yeah, it's a little daunting right? Because you look at you like Oh, man, like, Am I late to the game here? The answer is no. The answer is no. We are just on like, if you talk it's funny. I I'm always looking at Gary because Gary stays Gary Vee stays three, four or five steps ahead on all the social platforms. But there's one platform that I am way ahead of Gary on and it's LinkedIn. LinkedIn is saying

Scott Rivers:

I thought you were gonna tell me you were dancing on TikTok But okay so it's LinkedIn,

John Barrows:

God no, no, no, he's way ahead of me on TikTok, I don't even understand TikTok I like whatever I'm still I'm trying to figure it out. But but no LinkedIn like he's like all LinkedIn right now is where Facebook was 10 years ago with it even though they have whatever 700 million people on the on the platform and you know that less than 1% of people on LinkedIn actually create content right? No less than 1%. And if you think you're going to post too often, there's no such thing my friend, like literally because I'm just looking at your feed, I could post something right now. And then you click on a refresh button and it is 20 rows done. Right, right. So the easiest way and this is this is where it took a little bit for me to figure this out. Because you know, again, as a Gen X are here, when social selling and brand building first hit, I was like, great, young yet another thing I got to do to be successful in sales, fantastic added to the list here, right? The whole idea of tweeting and posting and all this shit, like, it just bothered me Actually, I was like, This is stupid, right? But, but where where it started to click for me, was when I started looking at it as educating myself first, I should be educating myself on my industry, I should be educating myself on the trends that are going on. And, you know, some of the personas that I go after, right, I mean, just from a business acumen standpoint, I should be staying up to date on that stuff, right? So what I started doing was I started looking at it as educating myself first. So I set up tools, like there's another one out there called Feedly, f e e d l y, what Feedly is RSS aggregator, right, so so you get like four or five different sales blogs are you like reading, usually, to go to four or five different sales websites, or get four or five different emails to hit your inbox? Feedly you can get a folder in Feedly, called sales blogs, dump all your sales blogs in there, open it up, and you see all the headlines, right? That's right. So I fall I create folders on content that I'm interested in learning about, but also my audience is. So for me, it's like artificial intelligence in sales. So I got a folder called AI in sales. And what do I do I go on Google, and I type in AI sales, thought leaders 2020. And I see who's talking about what companies are talking about it what you know what individuals have blogs about this stuff, and I put them all in that folder. SaaS is my industry. So I follow all the thought leaders in SaaS sales, training, obviously, sales, blogs and sales training. So I all these little like. And then what I do is in the morning, feelies my morning paper. So I grab my morning. So I grab my coffee. Right? And so I get up usually 530 in the morning, right from 630 to 730. Every morning, instead of checking my fantasy leagues and getting all pissed off about that type of shit, or like reading the news and getting overly aggravated. I scan through data feeds, and I read a few articles with the lens of educating myself first. And then when I find an article that I learned something from and only when I find an article that I learned something from, I share it with my context. And this is what I directly stole from Gary Vee, Gary Vee talks about everybody says content is king content is king. He said fine. If content is king, then context is God. And that got me thinking about marketing versus sales. Marketing is content. Sales is context. If we as sales professionals not putting any context around our content, and we're no different than marketing, and I have no idea why we're getting paid to do we do. And again, you don't have to be the content creator. You have to be the content curator. Because think about it this way, Scott, say I read a blog, a weekly blog. It's a pain in the ass. I've been writing it for five years, I'm running shit to say right? So it takes me about an hour to sit down and write this thing, whatever. And then I send it to my team that day they'd Grammarly it and you know, get it all optimized, put it on HubSpot, SEO and whatever. So we're like, we're like two to three hours into one blog, write one blog post. So now say I write that right. And you and I are connected on social. And you see my article, right and you read it. And you think you think it's decent. So you share it. You're like, hey, really interesting article here by John right here. You know, so my key takeaway is what he talked about were XYZ, right? Blah. Now somebody you are connected to reads my blog, because you shared it. Right? And they like it. Who do they thank

Scott Rivers:

they're gonna thank me if I share that?

John Barrows:

Yeah, exactly. I might get another follower. I

Scott Rivers:

Yeah, very true.

John Barrows:

You get all the credit. I did all the work.

Scott Rivers:

That's true. That's true. That's John, how you start sharing my articles. That'd be great. I've got two that go out each week. Every other week, we got a podcast, I'll share yours. We'll see if it gets more out of it. But I agree with you. You know, it's about putting information out there. I think I think people are scared to write I think fear holds so many people back. And I think fear keeps people from selling. And so you've got to let go with a fear. You've got to start putting yourself out there a little bit. And I think once you start doing it, I mean, listen, the first time I jumped in front of a camera, I wasn't excited about it. But But I wanted to be a part of the conversation. And so we're here today, because you kind of push the fear aside, you push forward and I think a lot of that comes probably from our age having that ability. Because it's fear for us. The kids don't have my might be like, you know, somebody, my God, like John's kids have no problem jumping in front of a camera. They're going voice here. But they're not going to say thank you so much, to be great at this. I'm a little scared of what they're John, for writing that article. Yeah, they're gonna stay. going to do but they're going to be great at it. But I think for Thanks, Scott, for sharing that article. people our age, especially this is a stretch. And so you got to stretch a little more and try to get past it.

John Barrows:

If you're not, let's put it this way, if you're not getting uncomfortable, you're not getting any better. Period. Let's bring this to the workout world, right? If you go to the gym, if you go to the gym, and you come home, and Nothing hurts, was that a good session at the gym? Nope. But if you come home, and you can barely walk up the stairs, because your legs are all wobbly and shit. And you're right, like something happened there. You built a muscle there, right? It's the same thing in sales. If you're not putting yourself in, look, you don't have to go ridiculous. But But you do have to stretch yourself. And that's why micro stuff, you could say, let me put myself out there a little bit. And let's talk about let's go back to social and build your brand. Like, what's the worst thing that can happen? you post something out there and nobody engages? Oh No! right? But trust me, if you do it with authenticity in the sense, that's why people who build their brand, just to build a brand, I think are a joke with people who build a brand who have no substance behind it are a joke. Um, but but, and that's why I like people who tag 700 people just because they want you know, somebody like me to come in and post on their thing like that. That's a joke. But if you learn first, and then share what you learned that the main benefit is you learning, right? The secondary benefit is you building your brand.

Scott Rivers:

And I feel like authenticity is very important. I call it the sniff test. I know, I know, I don't call it Everyone calls it that. But it's a sniff test. And I think it's it's evident very quickly, if somebody is doing it, for themselves, are truly doing it to try and help others.

John Barrows:

You can sniff it out pretty easy. I mean, all you got to do is dig through and see, you know, how many people are they following versus followers? You know, that type of stuff? And yeah, it's it's it's pretty transparent these days?

Scott Rivers:

Yeah, I think so. And I try to be overt about it sometimes. And you know, for everyone out there, when I initially sent John a message, John gets invited on shows like this, probably dozens of times every day. I sent him a direct message. And I followed up and said, Look, I don't have anything to sell you. And I'm doing this as a service to my clients. Oh, and by the way, here's the things that I'm willing to just give back to you. Because I want you on the show. And I I think it will help our audience. I think that more people should do that, offer things back, right, get back, give back, give back. And then if you've done it the right way, maybe you have the opportunity to ask for something in the future. But my whole goal for this was to give to the people that we work with on a daily basis. And we're getting, we're getting great reviews, we're getting good people to call us back and say thank you. And we'll see where it goes from there. But I think that if you're overt about what you're trying to do and what you're trying to accomplish, and it's genuine people will respond.

Unknown:

Absolutely. And look. The challenge though, is we are in such a short term gratification world, that that's why people will they might get into brand building and social selling and sharing content, but they don't see any results in a month or two. And they're like, Oh, this is pointless. You know it This isn't a short term thing. This is a long term play your personal brand, your personal reputation, right. And maybe that's an easier way for people to think about it instead of brand Think about your reputation, right? That's going to carry you throughout the rest of your careers. And it's just going to get more important. I mean, people don't trust corporate brands anymore. They just don't. they trust personal brands. So be that personal brand that represents your corporation, right? So it's it's not that hard. Once you start being okay with the fact that no one who gives a shit if somebody comments on my posts who gives a shit. I'm doing this because I learned something. I'm sharing it out there because I'm trying to help you know, myself, but others who are kind of like me, and I'm a big, you know, karma person, what goes around comes around man shit ventually comes around,

Scott Rivers:

couldn't agree, couldn't agree more on that one. Very quickly. And I know we're gonna have to wrap up soon. But let's talk about leadership. What is their role today, and we'll talk sales, leadership, commercial leadership, because I feel like a lot of sales people are again, going back to that fear thing. They're afraid to put themselves out there because of they're afraid of what their manager is going to say. Or they're afraid of what the company is going to say. And for all of you out there, we understand there are certain things that you can't do on social media, because of companies you're associated with. But what's the role of those leaders today? What can they do to give their people permission to put themselves out there? How do they do that?

John Barrows:

You know, it is interesting, because leadership does dictate a lot, right? I mean, everybody knows that reps don't leave companies, they leave managers. And so, you know, I think it's allowing freedom within structure. So giving some guidelines of what you can do and kind of the parameters, the guardrails if you will, but allowing people to play within and allowing people to test certain things. So let's use the the big example like Google Right, like Google, I think it's like one day a week, they have to work on something completely outside of Google, right. And that's where some of the best, you know, inventions come from. And it has nothing to do with Google. It's just like, literally go work on some crazy ass idea. I'm not saying we should do that. In our world, what I'm saying is a manager should allow those reps to test out things that they think are going to bring value to themselves in the organization. So I'll give you a quick example here, what I used to do as a manager, every week, we would go through Mondays, we would go through our, you know, our sales team meeting, forecast review, and everything else. But then I would say, All right, everybody, what, what do we want to work on this week? What do we want to work on? And it was stuff like, you know, junk getting through gatekeepers? figuring out videos selling, dealing with this specific objection, whatever it is, like whatever the kind of I have an itch to fix that problem, or I want to try something that I read on a blog or whatever it is, right. Yeah. And then what I would do is, so I had seven people on my team, I would say, all right, who wants to own this one? Right? Well, I'll own it when I say only I don't mean go crazy with this and all of a sudden spend hours and hours. I mean, literally, like say it's handle the pricing objection, right? I mean, literally open up your laptop and Google, what's the best way of handling the pricing? Objection, right? read a few blogs, pick one that you think is cool, right? Bring it back, let's do a little roleplay on this sucker. Right? See how let all right, we like this approach. Cool. Now, what I had, what everybody would do is that we'd all have a notebook next to our desk. And we would write down challenge equals pricing, Objection, approach equals now feel felt found reprioritization, Claire, whatever, that and then we kind of write out what you would say. And then I'd have a T bar, right? plus minus. And what I would tell everybody is, look, no matter what, and that that person raised their hand said, I want to own it, they were the project manager of this thing. Okay. And so they would then have to coach people on that thing. Now, every everybody I would say, Do whatever you want to do this week, okay. But when that thing happens, you got to use that approach. And you just got to say plus minus, Did it work? Did it not work, right. And then we were just the project manager, if you would collect out like coach during the week, and, you know, try it themselves, right? And then collect the piece of paper at the end of the week, and we just add up the numbers. Hey, everybody, we hit that. We hit that objection. 50 times last week, we got 20 positives and 30 negatives. That's actually not that bad. Let's put that on the list. Right next week, what do you guys want to focus. So this whole concept of continuous learning and continuous improvement, going back to what I was saying, split testing, and you can get through this mess, if you learn something every day I try manager, if your team is learning on a consistent basis, and you create that culture of continuous improvement, you will build an incredibly valuable and and team that executes at a really high level, and the reps will be excited to do it, because they're learning. And again, if you're not boiling the ocean here, you just pick one small thing. And if some kids like, Hey, you know what, I can give you an example like videos, right? I don't know, video selling is going to be good for your industry. But why not try to figure it out? Guess what, here's the last, you know, one more tip for everybody. You can do LinkedIn videos for free. Yeah. So you, as long as you're one connected to somebody, you can go on to LinkedIn, which I would have messaged you right now Scott, there's a little plus sign it drops down and there's a video icon there, you push on that a video comes up and I can send you a video through LinkedIn that goes into your email. Maybe there's a rep out there, that's like, that might be a good idea. And there's another rep out there, but like all our audience will never, you know, Doctor don't care. You know what I mean? They're not going to look at that stuff. But maybe just maybe, one kid's gonna say, you know what, fuck it. I'm gonna do this. Yeah, Hey, boss, Can I Can I try this out to see if this works? I'm going to test it. I'm going to come back with some data. And then send out 50 videos through LinkedIn and see how many responses you get and come back and blow that out. that other guy out of the water saying, Yeah, guess what? I said? I mean, Morgan did this. He sent 100 videos got 41 responses in 18. meetings?

Scott Rivers:

Yeah. It works. I can tell you, John, it works. Right? You know, and they're smart about it, right? Because they don't have it linked to Sales Navigator, right. You can't just blast people with speedos. you've connected to them. But if you're connected to someone, I find that if I send a video, nine times out of 10, I get a response. And it's always it might not be favorable of what I'm trying to do. But it's a favorable response of hate really appreciate the message. So that one's good. I like that one a lot.

John Barrows:

And by the way to more small things on video. Yeah, video is great way of handling objections and delivering proposals. You know, how we used to be able to deliver a proposal on site and walk them through it. But now it's like, What do I do? It's like send the PDF, whatever Vidyard light up a video, you can put your little mug on the on the bottom corner and have the proposal up there. Hey, Scott, and Cena just sending you a PDF here. I just wanted to kind of walk you through this proposal. You know, you had said your main priorities were here. Here's the components of our solution that I think will really make a difference. You can look through the details later. I just want to get this over to let you know I'm really excited about the opportunity to work with you. That right there. that personal touch on the on the proposal that you're about to send them makes all the difference in the world. It sure does.

Scott Rivers:

So I also have Vidyard big fan. Have it all up. I'll talk to you after this. And maybe we could put your link on here or something else. But I love the video idea. I think it gives you just one more opportunity to put yourself in front of people at a time where you're typically not able to do it. Exactly. John, how can I? How can people reach out to you maybe tell us about things that you have going on right now? Whatever projects or things that you have that you want people to know about?

John Barrows:

Yeah, no, I appreciate it. So j barrows.com. So j, ba, r o Ws, calm, there, you're gonna find everything. So there's the blog, there's the, you know, resources, the podcast, you can hit me up on LinkedIn, but you'll also see, you know, if you do training for individuals, that's what you just signed up for, which is our whole new on demand platform that has literally everything that we do. So all the training that I give to Salesforce, LinkedIn, and all those huge companies is all on that platform. And we're constantly putting new content on there on a regular basis we're trying to make it kind of the Netflix for sales. And so there's personal branding stuff from James and social selling from from Morgan and you know, my core programs and and tips and all sorts of stuff in there for like, I think it's like 400 bucks at this point. So yeah, that's, that's a great way to do or, like I said, just hit me up on LinkedIn, and I'll share whatever free stuff that I got for you. Oh, and last one is Instagram. So where I'm doing a lot of like, one on one coaching it for free is his Instagram. So John J O H N M, as in Michael barrows, B A R R O W S. That's my handle. Just hit me up. And I'm happy to help ut anybody who has any questio

Scott Rivers:

Yeah, very cool. For you guys out there in sales. I think in the past, especially growing up in big companies, I always looked for my company to provide me with my sales training. So I got stuck with spin. If I were in one of these companies that I work with today, I'm going to get stuck with challenger. Check out John's information, check out his site, I I'm a member of his plan that he talked about. For the money, it's worth every penny. If I was in outside sales today, I would have bought it myself wouldn't ask for anyone to pay for it. And I would try to get that competitive advantage. So you guys go check that out. Before I let you go, John, we are all about talent here. Right? I want to, I want to always help people find the best talent in the market. I want to know what people look for. I want to know what they hire for. So for you, what are those things that you look for in talent? And what's that thing that if you find it, you say I want that on my team every time.

John Barrows:

Passion, passion, passion. I mean, I mean, grit and passion. I ask people, what are you passionate about not because I care is because I care how you describe what you're passionate about. Because you can teach skill, you can teach technique, you can teach all these things, you can teach drive, and you can teach passion. So is that as if and also values? All right, I think it's important for everybody to kind of go through a value exercise, I have my 12 personal guidelines to success, that helps me make decisions. Because if you and I have the same values, then we can then you and I can argue all the we want, right? But as long as we have the core values, then I think we were gonna be able to do some really special things together. If you and I values are off, then it's not going to work. And so values and grit and passion, right? Those are things that I look for first, and then experience and then you know all that other crap again, like I can teach all that stuff as long as you're willing to learn as long as your coach. And also, I guess one more thing would be coachability. Right? Do you take direction, you know, when I used to do interviews, I would interview a kid. And then I would have them go through a cold call exercise with me about what they used to sell. And then they would come back in and I would give him feedback. And then I would tell him to go do it again. And no matter how bad that first call went, if they took my feedback, and they applied it to that next call. I was like alright, this is a kid I can work with here.

Scott Rivers:

Very cool. Awesome. Two real quick last things. You mentioned on one of your podcast, what you teach your daughter about controlling the things that you can control, give us that Ackermann acronym. And then if you would, I'm going to let you close out the show the way you close out yours because I like it.

John Barrows:

Thanks. Yeah, so it's EAT. So it's it's focused on what you can control. And we came up with this little acronym to what we do every morning with our little secret handshake. It's effort, attitude, and how you treat people. Those are the things you can control, right? You control your effort, how hard you work, you can control your attitude, whether it's positive or negative, you control how you treat people. And so you know that that to me is something you know, we get a lot we get caught up a lot with what's going on with politics right now in the world and all this other stuff, what's on TV, you can't control any of that shit you can't control the customer does if they ghost you or not, whatever. So just control what you can control. And with that how you treat people is really the important part there. Right? Because that's how I ended up all my podcasts, which is, you know, go out there and make somebody smile today because even if you had a shitty day, if you made somebody smile, you know you had a good day. So

Scott Rivers:

john barrows everyone, john, thank you. Really appreciate you joining us.

John Barrows:

Thanks for having me on, Scott. I appreciate it.

Scott Rivers:

All right. Take care, everyone. You've just listened to another talent talks podcast with Scott Rivers. Today's guest John barrows. I know that each and every one of you who listened today is going to get a ton of value. So do me a favor. Reach out to John on LinkedIn, let him know that you heard about him here. On the talent talks podcast with Scott Rivers, I would appreciate that. In addition to that, check out his website, Jbarrows.com. JB sales is the company jbarrows.com. is where you can get to all of his information, the podcast, the blog, any events that he has, and also that individual training, which I talked about, and actually, as I mentioned in the show, I bought on an annual basis and the contents fantastic. John brings a lot of value. Guys, we're wrapping up 2020. And my goal for this podcast has always been just to bring value to sales people in the industries that we serve. I think we're doing that this year. We're gonna finish next week with James Carberry, another awesome person to talk to who brings a different spin on networking and sales. So I'm looking forward to that one as well. Thank you for being here today. Take care everyone.