Pig & Whistle Tales - A World of Warcraft Podcast

Pandaria's New Path: Class Changes and Celestial Dungeons

• Gabriel • Season 5 • Episode 17

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The Pig and Whistle podcast brings you the latest Mists of Pandaria Classic beta changes, highlighting Celestial Dungeons and substantial class balance adjustments that will reshape the expansion's gameplay experience.

• Weekly news update for World of Warcraft with world bosses and bonus events
• Details on MoP beta weekend raid testing for Heart of Fear and Terrace of Endless Springs
• Introduction of Celestial Dungeons system replacing Raid Finder content
• New currency system with August Stone Fragments for purchasing gear and legendary quest progression
• Extensive class balance changes to ensure competitive performance across all specs
• Retribution Paladins receiving substantial damage buffs (10-20% across abilities)
• Affliction Warlocks getting significant DoT damage improvements
• Restoration Shamans seeing notable healing nerfs to abilities like Healing Rain
• PvP instances will maintain original 5.4.8 class balance with few exceptions
• Final thoughts on why these changes are necessary for a better Classic experience

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Speaker 1:

The Thank you, hello and welcome to the Pig and Whistle Tales from Azeroth. As always here at the Pig and Whistle Inn in Stormwind, I go through a variety of subjects with regards to World of Warcraft. So grab a bottle or a pint, sit back and enjoy. With regards to World of Warcraft, a grubber bottle or a pint, sit back and enjoy this episode. We're going to be going over Classic at the moment and there are a lot of changes that have happened to the Mists of Pandaria beta that are going to be, you know, being implemented, going forward, and we're going to be discussing them, going to be going through them, giving my thoughts about it, as well as a couple forum posts about these things potentially and seeing other people's sort of reaction to it. So we'll start off with the weekly news, as per usual. You have kordak and the godfather as your world bosses for the week. They are located within, oh my god, every single time I forget the first zone, kazalgar. Do you want a goal? No, I've forgotten the first zone, the first zone of kazalgar, as well as the undermined. For the godfather, you have pet battles and battlegrounds as your bonus event for the week. This means that you get more xp for competing in pet battles and you get more honor for competing in battlegrounds. South shore versus terror mill is your brawl for the week. This is a 40 versus 40. Essentially it's just a team death match. First to get 150 kills on the opposition faction and wins. Do not do this. If you have a potato for a pc, honestly it will blow up your pc. It's a bit shit, but it is great fun if you do have the means to do it. So I would very much recommend it.

Speaker 1:

As you can hear, my voice is a little bit croaky. I really don't know what's been happening over the past few weeks, but I've not fully fully recovered from whatever it is. I had, clearly. But you know, you've just got to bear with me and I do apologize in advance for anything that if I need to take a short second just to catch my voice back. So, mr pandaria has been obviously test being tested right now and it's currently going through its raid testing, but there are some big changes that have also happened with the latest testing updates. Now I did an episode on this a couple of days ago in terms of like recording stuff, but more has come out. So this is why I am sort of redoing this episode on the day so that I can get this out to you. So the beta changes are very simple to start off with. We have weekend raid testing, so the eighth week of beta.

Speaker 1:

It's finally time to take on the remaining two early expansion raids. Delve into the rotting home of the galaxy and confront their shard, tainted queen in the heart of fear. So, heart of fear raid and you chase the shard of fear into the terrace of endless springs, where it has caused the guardians to develop into fits of terror. Defeat it to restore peace to the sacred place, and this is obviously terrace of endless springs. And this is a shorter raid instance than the other two. Now, you can get very good loot from doing all of these, but if you are a smaller guild and want to prioritize one of them, I would very much recommend doing mogushan vaults. Okay, that's the one where I believe that a lot of people are going to be more inclined to do and then probably go. Heart of fear, um, terrace of endless springs is great if you can get the time to do it. Basically. So the raid testing schedule um, it's going to begin friday, june 13th, at 1 pm ptd. I do not know what time zone that is um, I'm awful with time zones uh and it will end on Monday, june 16th, at 10 am. Ptd Level 90 templates you can obviously use for the raid. They will have 463 item level gear. This is heroic dungeon gear, and there are also vendors in both of the cities within Mists of Pandaria, as well as Orgrimmar and Stormwind, to purchase certain things. If you want to change up gear or anything like that, get some flasks, potions, etc. For the raid testing. Um again, and this is also where you will teleport to the raid you can talk to an npc within these cities to teleport you to these raids and get you there quickly so that you may begin testing as efficiently as possible.

Speaker 1:

Something that is different in this build, though, is something called Celestial Dungeons. Okay, celestial Dungeons now, I haven't read this or gone through it much, but I'm believing it's the Mythic Plus version or the tougher version of dungeons that we've had in wrath of the lich king, cataclysm, etc. Celestial dungeons is a new optional game mode that will allow. That is now available for testing. Please leave any feedback in the thread. Celestial dungeons can be entered by using the automated group finder tool. They require a minimum item level of 435 to queue the same as heroic dungeons. Um, please note that, uh, to get the intended difficulty experience. We'd appreciate. They appreciate your feedback running the dungeons, uh, on level 90, character templates, which makes sense because they want to figure out if this is the optimal item level, that you should be going into these dungeons to get the most out of it, etc.

Speaker 1:

Upon entering a Celestial Dungeon, players will be greeted by the Augur Celestials. Speaking with a Celestial allows the player to ask for their assistance, granting the player unique powers based on which Celestial they interacted with. So this is your option of buffs, kind of like the Aspects. You had four different options. Each boss in a Celestial Dungeon will drop two times of its new currency, august stone fragments per player. If players have defeated all of the other bosses in the dungeon, the final boss at each run will drop an extra three stones. So exactly the same as cataclysm. Running your first celestial dungeon of the day will grant an additional four of these stone fragments. Every celestial dungeon after the first one will grant an additional two fragments. There is also a rotating daily quest for the celestial dungeons that can be picked up from challenger song to soon or challenger woolly in the Eternal Blossoms for an additional stone fragments. I'm just going to call them fragments, I'm not going to bother with the stone part. This daily quest will never be the same Celestial Dungeon two days in a row and it will never be the same dungeon as the Challenger Mode Dungeon quest, which is good. The cap on how many fragments a character can hold will be low at first but increased with the release of each raid tier. Okay, so it's a progressive system, kind of good.

Speaker 1:

The fragments currency can be used to purchase items from a new npc avatar of the august celestials in the shrine of the two moons and the shrine of the seven stars, the okay, so very simple. The original raid finder items have been relabeled as celestial items. So this screams to me that they are taking raid finder out of missa pandaria and replacing it with this. Let's see. For the remainder of this article, all instances are mentioned of the items being called celestial will be referring to old raid finder versions of an item with this new, updated label.

Speaker 1:

Okay, celestial dungeons that also bring to them achievements to earn. Uh, they add various mechanics from bosses, uh, from the current raid tier to the uh, other dungeon encounters. Um, they do put a developer note here. Aside from adding interesting mechanics and challenge it uh to each dungeon, our intention is to also give newer players the chance to experience some of the current raid tiers boss mechanics prior to entering the raids. That's actually a very good idea because it allows people to be like, oh okay, well, I've never raided before, but I've seen these mechanics, I've done this. I did this in a dungeon, you know, I did this in scarlet monastery. I did this in um terrorists of endless springs, or whatever the dungeons might be called. You know, um, the meadery dungeon. I forget their names. I hate if I forget their names, but I remember the dungeons, which is weird, um, but that's good. I like that.

Speaker 1:

Players can earn progress towards their legendary quest line with a chance of gaining sigils of power and sigils of wisdom drops from end bosses in celestial dungeons while on the associated quest. So I think this is really cool, because what the legendary quests needed you to do was going to raids and obviously raid finder was a very good part of this to get this done. But the actual other option now is to do it via these dungeons, which is very good for the smaller sort of um guild player base. I I love that change. I think that's very effective.

Speaker 1:

Um, to somewhat mimic how raid finder content was originally released, celestial dungeons will become available two weeks after the release of mogu shun vaults. From there, two weeks after each raid is released, the celestial dungeon drops and the items of the avatar. The celestials will update their tables content to contain items from that raid. Upon first release, items available to be purchased are all Celestial items from Mogu's Shun Vaults. Satchel of Celestial Chance containing a handful of lesser charms and stuff commendations. So this is your rep tokens, as well as justice points and valor points. Once the Heart of fear releases uh, you'll be able to get celestial tier 14 uh, chest and leg tokens and all celestial items from heart of fear. Okay, and then, once terrace of endless springs releases, uh, no new items will be added to the vendor until two weeks after that raid will be released. Upon the two weeks elapsing, you can buy the tier 14 and tier heads and hands tokens and all the celestial items from Terrace of Endless Springs. So these items are not going to be as good as your normal raid gear. They're not going to be as good as your heroic raid gear. They are raid finder gear. They are now called celestial gear. They're not going to be as good as your heroic raid gear. They are raid finder gear, they are now called celestial gear.

Speaker 1:

It's very simple, very easy and, I think, honestly, better. I definitely think that it's better. I think that, in my opinion, you should have kept Raid Finder, mainly due to the fact that some people might not have ever been able to experience the raids and this is their only chance to do so, and Raid Finder is the way of doing it. But I get that. You know you're trying to appeal to the people who want more of a community-based around that, and Raid Finder did take that away from sort of guilds because you could just go yeah, I've experienced the raid, oh, I did it on Raid Finder. You know it's kind of like oh, okay, you didn't really do the raid like fully, but you still did the raid, fair enough, okay, I still think that they should have kept Raid Finder, as it's a personal preference. Then if people want to do that instead of the dungeons, they are more than welcome to. But again, I I'm not against these changes. I think that it's very good. The biggest change, however, is this they are doing class updates.

Speaker 1:

As we have been reviewing the class design in the original misa pandaria, we recognize that classes changed, sometimes substantially, over the course of the expansion from phase to phase. From our for our classic expansions, we start with class design of the final patch of the original expansion and for mr pandaria classic, that is patch 5.4.8. Okay, very simple. Unfortunately, classes in 5.4.8 are not designed with each phase's content, such as the first raid tier, in mind and with no changes to classes. This would leave some in an odd state in each phase. To address this, we have gone class by class, specs by spec, and made changes. Okay, okay, these changes aren't going to be massive. Surely many of these changes are simply reverting updates to classes that were made throughout the original missa pandaria. In some cases we also brought forward fixes to classes that were not made until warlords of draenor pre-patch. So we have missa pandaria, but some classes have warlords of draenor pre-patch adjustments to them, which is insane. We have indicated the source of each adjustment at the end of each class change noted below.

Speaker 1:

Some classes have also received an early buff, despite being expected to scale well in missa pandaria classic. Um, our intent here is to give certain specs more power to balance them early in the expansion. But we already plan to revert many of these buffs made to the specific specs as the expansion progresses and these specs naturally scale back up to their expected level. The reason they're doing this is obviously so that you have a even playing field. You have a very good variety of specs that are competing in terms of raid spots, so the warlock's not doing 15% more damage than the Balanced Druid or the Balanced Druid's not doing 20% more than the Warrior, kind of deal. This is so that it's very even and that people can enjoy their class without feeling like, oh, I just am so underwhelmed because I'm doing no damage, kind of deal.

Speaker 1:

We've also made changes to the functionality of certain abilities, glyphs and talents for specific classes or specific specs within a class. To be clear, this means that if other specs within a class also have access to the same abilities, glyphs or talents can will only function in the changed manner for that spec specified. Specifically regarding pvp, this is the most pvp uh blue post we've ever gotten. Uh. All of the following changes will not impact on instanced pvp. These class changes, including changes to masteries and glyphs, will revert back to their 5.4.8 functionality when characters enter pvp instances, such as arenas and battlegrounds. The only exception to these changes reverting to their 5.4 state are changes that include items and set bonuses. Those changes will not revert upon entering pvp instance. Finally, although we feel all classes will benefit from these changes throughout the expansion, we will continue to monitor the changes or the classes and update them further if necessary. We are particularly eager to see how they perform in the beta and, most importantly, that we are very much looking forward to your feedback.

Speaker 1:

Okay, so these are the changes that basically have happened in this beta and these are going to be either new or reverted. So I'm going to revert. Refer to them as reverted, being that they've gone back in time, so back a patch or two. Um, or they're new, in which case they are brought forward a patch, so the warlords are drain or pre-patch. Okay, so for druids, you have balance. Moonkin form increases the increase, moon kim forms increase to nature and arcane damage has been raised to 20 instead of 10. This is new. Shooting stars will no longer split its chance to activate across multiple targets. This is reverted. Ferals uh, once feral learn nature, smith that. Ferals once again learn nature swift. But it cannot be used in arenas or battlegrounds Previously Feral was, did not learn or have access to nature swiftness this is a revert. Guardian Maul's rage cost has been lowered to 20 was 30.

Speaker 1:

This is a change, or this is new Restoration, or actually there's three different things. You have new, which is completely different. You have a change which is the wall of the drain or pre-patch, or you have obviously revert the mall. Is a change? That that is the pre-patch? Uh restoration. Naturalist, increased healing. Uh has been raised to 15 was 10 and this is new. Uh, they've already taken away the hunter changes, which is crazy. Um, it was something to do with your spore bat. The spore bats pets energizing spore can now only be active while inside a battleground or arena, full bat now additionally knows a spell called frenzying spores. This is an active ability that grants the same effect as serpent swiftness but can be activated outside. Hmm, that's weird. That's really weird that it's a change for your pet, but they've already reverted it. That's that's. I wonder why. For mage, your combustion percentage of ignites tick damage uh has been increased to 50 was 20. This is a revert.

Speaker 1:

For mist weaver, the teaching from the monastery, uh, crackling jade lightning damage bonus has been lowered to 25 was 100. I'm not really sure this was needed, but sure this is new. Manatees. Mana return has increased to five was four. This is new. Surging miss. Uh cost has been lowered to 13 percent. Wait, yes, uh, this was 8.8 percent, so it's like a 7.6 percent damage or mana like lower cost. This is new. Brushing jade wind will now cancel on the mistweaver monk when they enter a stance of the wise serpent. This is new. Um, this is really cool because obviously you have different stances as a mistweaver and utilizing these stances can help with your healing output. Uh, very well, you do more damage, which means you're doing more fist weaving. You do more healing, reducing your mana cost, etc. Etc. You're going to be managing these quite often, I would imagine. Jab cost has been lowered by 25 percent. Um to six percent of its base mana. There's a revert. Uh. Envelop and miss healing has been raised by 48 percent. This is a revert as well. Eminence healing has been raised by 68, moving it to 42. Conversion to damage to healing was 25. This is a revert and a change which is really something. Um. Revivals healing has been raised by 43. This is good because this is your big AoE heal and, let's face it, it's quite underwhelming. This is a revert.

Speaker 1:

Glyphs of targeting expulsion retain its original effect in PvP but morphs to have the old effect from the previously removed glyph to uplift, while outside a PvP instance For Windwalker, your bottled fury uh change to increase damage of your tiger's eye brew by 0.2 percent per mastery. Uh was. Mastery gives a chance to gain an additional chance to get a tiger's eye brew. This is a revert. Your tiger's eye brew starts with 3.5 damage per stack plus 1.6 from base. Mastery was six percent per stack unaffected by mastery. So you can stack mastery. This is a revert and new again, tiger's eye brew gains a charge after spending three. Chi was four. This is a huge buff and is a revert. And tier 15 for windwalker monks four set bonus uh reverted to. You have a 10 chance to gain an additional charge of tiger's eye brew. Every time you change your uh you gain a charge of it. Um, this is a revert as well. So again you've got a bit of changes for monks.

Speaker 1:

I would imagine monks went through a lot of changes throughout Mists of Pandaria as they were the class introduced, so it's kind of like Death Knights when they were introduced back in Wrath of the Lich King. They went through so many changes. It's ridiculous. For paladins, you have holy. Your Eternal Flame's periodic healing has been lowered by 28%. This is a revert. Your Eternal Flame's periodic can activate Illuminating Healing, though. This is a revert, and Illuminated Healing's base value has been raised to 12% was 10%. This is again a revert.

Speaker 1:

Protection, the damage reduction from San, from sanctuary, has been raised to 20 was 15. This is a new change. Shielding on sacred shield has been raised by 43. This is a revert. For rats, you have. Divine storm crusader strike, hammer of the Righteous, hammer of Wrath and Exorcism have all had their damage raised by 10%. This is new. 10% across the board is massive, by the way. And your Templar's Verdict damage has been raised by 20%. This is a change. Now this is a massive buff for Ret Paladins. That's crazy. That buff yeah, that's just an outright overhaul damage increase. So that's kind of crazy. They must have really been underperforming.

Speaker 1:

For priests, your talents of divine start and halo now obey aoe cap rules 20 targets for damage and six for healing before they start splitting the effect's total number. This is a revert issue originally moved to the 6.0 pre-patch. Very simple the maximum times Cascade can bounce has been lowered to 3 was 4. This is a revert For Discipline Priest. Your Divine Ages lowered to 80% of heals. Value was 100%. This is new. So this is just a straight up.

Speaker 1:

Nerf Tier 14 set bonuses Penance Cooldown lowered to 1 second was 3. That's new. Wait, hold up. So you have a 1 second penance cooldown. Are you telling me you can spam penance on cooldown in your tier 14? Because usually it says the cooldown is lowered by this much, but or it's lowered by one second, but this says your penance cooldown is lowered to one second was three seconds. So am I tripping or is that a one second penance cooldown? I don't know. Developer note this bonus brings penance to eight seconds, like the original 5.0,. Okay, it's just a typo. Then it's just a typo. Okay, it's not a one second penance to 8 seconds like the original 5.0. Okay, it's just a typo. Then it's just a typo. Okay, it's not a 1 second penance. I'm going crazy with that. It is reduced by 1 second. Very simple Atonement. Healing from damage lowered to 70% was 90%. Okay, this is a change Defined Star for Discipline Priest has had its healing lowered by 25%.

Speaker 1:

This is a partial revert and a change. Spirit shells. Active duration raised by 50 to 15 seconds was 10 seconds, so this is a buff for that ability as well. For shadow, you generate shadow orbs passively while outside of combat. This is new and this is a big buff, by by the way, because it allows Shadow Priests to start fights with Shadow Orbs, which increase your burst damage, essentially Shadow Forms. Damage increased has been raised to 30% was 25%. This is new and again, this is just a straight-up buff for Shadow Priests.

Speaker 1:

For Rogues, your Sinister Strike energy cost has been lowered to 40 was 50. This is a buff and a revert. Sinister strikes weapon damage lowered though uh to 192 percent was 240. There's a big nerf and a partial revert. Uh. For assassination, the damage increase from assassin's ray resolve has been raised to 25 was 20 and for combat, added a counter to bandits guile that will trick your track, your sinister strikes and revealing strike, showing how close you are to gaining insight. This is new, but this is probably just a ui thing where it makes it a bit easier to play the class.

Speaker 1:

For shamans um. For general healing rain healing has been lowered by 25. That's a huge nerf and that is new. Talents. Your healing rains maximum duration through conductivity lowered to 30 seconds was 40 again. This is new and just a big nerf. Your ancestral guidance healing and damage conversion lowered to 20 was 60 for% for healing and 40% for damage. This is a change. This is a big change. That's a massive nerf. That is huge. For Elemental, your Lightning Belt damage has been raised by 10%. Right, this is new. For Enhance, your Stormstrike weapon damage has been raised to 450% was 380%. This is a revert. Again, for restoration, your chain heals fall off per target is 20 was zero. This is a partial revert. This is a massive nerf.

Speaker 1:

Jesus restoration shamans have been gutted. It feels like riptide mana cost raised by 15 partial revert. Yeah, shamans have been really roughed up. It's it's like they're kind of in the playground, they're getting beaten up and it's that south part or not the south park, it's the simpsons where it's like, stop, it's already dead. Uh, yeah, poor restoration shamans. Man, that's kind of rough. Again, they're looking to revert some of these in the near future or as the tiers progress. So I wouldn't be too worried about it and I would imagine they're trying to bring everything on par with each other, although I don't know it's tough to say if it's best to buff or nurse something because you don't want everything.

Speaker 1:

Super buff so that the raids are too easy. Kind of warlock your affliction malefic grasp damage has been raised by 50. This is a revert. The damage your malefic grasp causes to other dots to deal your other dots to deal has been raised to 50 was 30. This is a revert. Drain soul damage increased by 50. This is a revert as wellrain Soul damage increased by 50%. This is a revert as well. And the damage your Drain Soul causes that your other dots to deal raised up to 100% was 60%.

Speaker 1:

Affliction Warlock Stonks are through the roof. This is incredible. Stonks for Affliction Warlocks. For Demonology your Wild Imp damage raised by 43%. This is a revert. The number of imps summoned by glyph of imp raised to five was four. Again, just another buff. This is a revert as well. Hellfire and immolation aura damage has been raised by 25 revert, all of the warlock stuff's revert, so I'm not gonna keep saying it. Chaos wave damage raised by 50%. Okay, again, demonology stonks through the roof. And then for glyphs glyph of eternal resolve retains its original effects in PvP but morphs to have the old effects from the previously renamed glyph of everlasting affliction while outside of PvP instances, while not in PvP. The glyph of eternal resolve now increases the duration of the damage over time spells associated with the old glyph and by 50, but decreases their damage by 20.

Speaker 1:

Very simple or warriors, the last class uh general absorbing damage or taking damage while in berserker stance now grants a warrior's rage previously only taking damage to your health, bar granted rage. This is huge, actually, because this allows it to become more viable, because you want as much rage as you can as a warrior and being in berserker stance and only getting rage via taking damage, you're not going to be doing that. Okay, your tanks are going to have aggro in raids, so you're very limited to not having this in a raid instance. So this is very good for fury and these are the only changes. These are all new, okay. Raised berserker auto attack damage increased been raised raised to 15% was 10. Raised Berserker offhand damage increased and raised to 30% was 25. And the duration of Berserker rage and enrage has been raised by 33%. So it's now eight seconds instead of six. This is massive buffs all around for Fury Warriors and overall very good.

Speaker 1:

So what we know is that they are looking to change missa pandaria. Okay, missa pandaria was a very solid uh expansion and I will say that it was a very, very solid expansion. But I think that these changes are necessary. They want to look to actively give everyone a good shouting when it comes to being the top dog, dps or tank or healer, and they're looking to balance it. Now they're actually looking to do changes to balancing in classic, because if you were to try and do this in classic, imagine trying to balance in classic.

Speaker 1:

Okay, they try and change retribution paladins to having a crusader strike. Yeah, let's just say they gave them crusader strike. Imagine the uproar that people would have. Imagine the absolute shit show that would incur, because people were just would go bonkers over it. And yeah, this is including retribution paladins. And I get why. Because it's like oh, we want a original classic, we want original, original classic. If people want to play rep paladins and just hit something and do nothing and play with one hand on their keyboard, fine, you know what? Fine, I'll enjoy it and I'll, you know, play it. But I'm glad that they're doing these changes. I think that these are very good. These are very needed, because playing a class that feels underwhelming in a classic expansion feels awful. It makes you not want to play that class. It makes you not want to do anything extra on that class. It makes you not want to do the dungeons, the raids, any sort of content. So I'm glad that they are attempting to balance it and I think that this is something very good going forward and that's needed. But my voice is starting to die so I do have to end it there.

Speaker 1:

Thank you all very much for listening. Do check out all of the socials down below. Constant stuff happening. Let me know what do you think on Mists of Pandaria? I think it's going to be better than Kata. I don't think it could be worse. I think it's going to be a very solid expansion and I really hope that everyone does give it a good go. If you've never played it, I think you'll enjoy it. If you've played it before and you're in a guild currently and you're looking to uh, enjoy it, please do. I think it's a very solid expansion and everyone can get behind it. But do check out the etsy shop multiple things happening over there. Thank you all very much once again and go, eval, a friend goodbye. Thank you.